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00:07:20 *** avdg has quit IRC 00:07:58 *** avdg has joined #openttd 00:08:24 *** Yotson has quit IRC 00:08:27 *** Yotson has joined #openttd 00:14:32 *** jonty-comp has quit IRC 00:14:33 *** jonty-comp has joined #openttd 00:18:32 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 00:18:56 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 00:30:48 *** blathijs has quit IRC 00:31:13 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 00:34:58 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 01:33:19 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:40:32 *** glx has quit IRC 02:02:03 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:47:38 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd 02:49:27 *** muffindrake has quit IRC 03:09:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 03:15:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:20:36 *** LANJesus has joined #openttd 03:32:56 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:15:29 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 05:22:39 *** Flygon has quit IRC 05:29:19 *** Cubey has quit IRC 06:16:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:24:04 <andythenorth> moin 06:29:04 <peter1138> hi 06:29:11 <andythenorth> supermop you there? o_O 06:45:26 *** supermop has quit IRC 07:26:51 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:29:01 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 07:34:24 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 07:48:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 08:02:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:39:43 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 08:55:37 *** Exec has quit IRC 08:56:10 *** Exec has joined #openttd 09:08:03 *** Exec has quit IRC 09:08:26 *** Exec has joined #openttd 10:13:22 *** som89 has quit IRC 10:44:46 <Pokka> nobody here but us chickens 10:46:19 <peter1138> POKK 10:46:23 <peter1138> wot larks 10:53:24 <Pokka> oh dear 10:53:29 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka 11:21:46 *** Zexaron has joined #openttd 11:28:58 *** som89 has joined #openttd 11:35:57 <peter1138> Hmm, suppose I should try the newest UKRS3 11:43:12 *** som89 has quit IRC 11:46:32 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 11:47:41 <V453000> is pokk how you say chicken sounds in english_ 11:47:43 <V453000> ? 11:49:05 *** som89 has joined #openttd 11:51:09 <peter1138> Hmm, kinda? 11:51:48 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 11:59:56 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 11:59:57 *** som89 has quit IRC 12:24:12 <Pikka> if you do, peter1138, what do you think of the double-size buy menu sprites? yes/no/optional? 12:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what about people who use double size gui? 12:26:47 <Pikka> I don't know. does it also double the vehicle sprites? 12:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i think so 12:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure 12:30:12 <peter1138> Yeah, no. 12:30:28 <peter1138> 2x gui also uses 2x buy menu sprites. 12:30:54 <peter1138> So I'd say stick with the normal sprites. 12:31:09 <peter1138> If I want it doubled I'll use 2x gui :) 12:31:40 <peter1138> And... same for 4x :p 12:35:39 <peter1138> Hmm, I've done something wrong, it's not showing up :p 12:36:13 <peter1138> Ah, missing libxdg-basedir 12:36:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i should probably go shopping in the next 5 hours... 12:37:01 <peter1138> https://www.amazon.co.uk/ 12:37:14 <peter1138> .co.uk may not be appropriate, unless you are buying for me. 12:37:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so... :p 12:37:39 <peter1138> There's lots of Lego on there, for instance. 12:39:08 <peter1138> Ah yeah, no Pikka, take those double-size sprites out please 12:39:23 <Pikka> already done :) 12:39:27 *** markyisri has joined #openttd 12:39:52 <markyisri> Hi, this may be the wrong place to ask, but I tried to join the OpenTTD reddit server 1 and I don't understand how I am supposed to join a company. They are all protected by a password. 12:40:09 <Pikka> start a new company, markyisri 12:40:10 <peter1138> Pikka, it gets ridiculous with 2x GUI, which I normally use :) 12:40:18 <markyisri> can't 12:40:22 <markyisri> there are already 15 of them I think 12:40:33 *** markyisri has quit IRC 12:40:34 <peter1138> I guess you need to find a less-full server then. 12:40:37 <peter1138> Hah 12:41:09 *** markyisri has joined #openttd 12:41:16 <peter1138> markyisri, I guess you need to find a less-full server then. 12:41:27 <markyisri> peter1138: OK I will try a different one 12:41:55 <Pikka> or ask someone if you can join their company, or wait... I think it clears out unoccupied companies after a few hours 12:42:14 <peter1138> Pikka, a reason to be careful about using buy-menu specific sprites, if you only have a 1x version of that then it will be pixel doubled at 2x, and the rest of the sprites which do have 2x views will be high res. Would look odd. 12:42:38 *** markyisri has quit IRC 12:42:39 <peter1138> I think the engine-tender gap is fine, myself. 12:43:19 <peter1138> I should get myself an 8K screen just so 4x GUI has a reason to exist. 12:43:50 <Pikka> I'd only done the double-sized for the locos, so yes, there was a mismatch. but yep, I'll revert everything to 1x. maybe I should get the biggui :P 12:44:08 <peter1138> Pikka, don't get biggui, it's old and doesn't work properly. 12:44:30 <peter1138> Just need to be "double size" in "interface size" on the options screen. 12:44:35 <peter1138> s/be/pick/ 12:44:56 <Pikka> oic 12:45:58 <peter1138> so basically, do your buy menu sprites as 2x, but mark them as 2x properly. 12:46:06 <peter1138> however that is done. 12:46:15 <peter1138> Then the game will show it right. 12:46:32 <peter1138> I guess you don't actually need to draw a 1x version. 12:47:19 <Pikka> no, I don't. all the sprites are 2x, and the double-sized buymenu was done simply by coding them as normal instead of 2x. 12:47:29 <Pikka> so it was very easy to revert :) 12:47:31 <peter1138> *nod* 12:47:33 <peter1138> Cool. 12:48:14 <peter1138> Also, is it just me or does window resizing not work properly? At least with SDL. 12:49:32 <peter1138> Seems to add the height of the titlebar to the window on every mouse-pointer move. 12:53:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea when i last tried to resize a window 12:53:48 <peter1138> Really? 12:54:05 <peter1138> I mean the window for the whole game, not a window in game. 12:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, i don't think i have resized the game window in like 10 years :p 12:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always maximized 12:54:55 <__ln__> game years or real-life years 12:54:55 <peter1138> Odd. 12:55:14 <peter1138> I've not played OpenTTD fullscreen since... since playing at 800x600 on a CRT. 12:55:32 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 12:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> not fullscreen, just maximised 12:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i just tried resizing on the title screen, it flickers a lot 12:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause> as in goes to black and redraws 12:56:31 <peter1138> Yeah, that seems to happen. 12:56:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but nothing else seems to be odd 13:04:41 <peter1138> Yeah, seems like the call to SDL_SetVideoMode() is messing up. 13:07:23 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:16:51 *** roidal has joined #openttd 13:16:56 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 13:19:20 <peter1138> Didn't someone have an SDL 2.0 patch? 13:20:00 <peter1138> Let's switch to glfw :p 13:20:50 <peter1138> Requires everyone to use OpenGL though. 13:21:38 <peter1138> Also, our input event handling it shit. 13:23:07 *** som89_ has quit IRC 13:25:10 <LordAro> you should rewrite it 13:25:29 <peter1138> L* 13:25:30 <peter1138> :( 13:25:35 <peter1138> I'm tempted. 13:25:50 <peter1138> But I keep getting deeper and deeper rabbit holes. 13:26:16 <LordAro> hehe 13:26:20 <LordAro> i'm doing that right now 13:26:32 <peter1138> So the drivers all set some random global variable, and then call another function with no parameters. 13:26:41 <peter1138> That function then tests all these variables to find out what happened. 13:27:12 <peter1138> Why not 1) just pass it in parameters directly 2) use different functions for different events... 13:28:21 <peter1138> Also our onClick is handle on mouse button press. 13:28:59 <peter1138> In most UIs (except, say, menus), onClick would be handled on mouse button release. 13:29:41 <peter1138> Tab switching, is mouse down, but we don't have tabs. 13:29:51 <peter1138> Well, sort of do, they're just buttons though. 13:30:20 <peter1138> Ok, maybe it's just buttons that should be on button release :) 13:31:34 <LordAro> buttons have to depress on ...press though? 13:31:51 <peter1138> yes 13:32:20 <peter1138> they normally activate on release though, so you can click, then move off the button and release, and nothing happens 13:33:05 <peter1138> Anyway that's minor 13:35:31 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 13:46:18 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:46:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:46:37 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:59:07 *** som89_ has quit IRC 13:59:39 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 14:05:27 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:11:52 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 14:17:32 <peter1138> Hmm, Jenkins playing up, it built the same PR commit twice :S 14:28:17 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 14:29:23 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 14:35:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "doppelt hält besser" 14:50:07 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 15:01:15 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:23:02 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 15:23:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 15:29:47 *** tokai has quit IRC 15:47:53 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 15:58:37 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 15:58:49 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 16:05:12 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:06:06 *** bwn has quit IRC 16:09:23 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:11:35 *** bwn has joined #openttd 16:45:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:53:40 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:53:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:59:24 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 16:59:31 <Wolf01> o/ 17:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 17:04:41 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:09:38 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 17:13:13 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:25:10 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 17:27:01 *** Extrems has quit IRC 17:27:36 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 17:28:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:30:34 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 17:31:23 <peter1138> Hmm, gonna be some wet trails out there tonight. 17:32:00 <Wolf01> Hmm? 17:32:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:33:00 <peter1138> MTB ride in the woods tonight. 17:34:47 <Wolf01> Do you have the mudguards? 17:35:39 <peter1138> Ish. 17:40:49 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:53:37 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 17:57:08 <frosch123> _dp_: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6763/files#diff-2e3543c333838e2f3b92cbf76235777b <- there is still some change. why did lordaro cause so much confusion :p 17:59:41 <LordAro> :( 18:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 18:01:06 <frosch123> poop lordaro, everyone bashes him :) where is yorick? 18:01:25 <frosch123> *poor 18:02:20 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 18:04:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:09:44 <_dp_> frosch123, what do you mean? should I not add anything to that comment? 18:13:12 <andythenorth> hi 18:13:17 <_dp_> frosch123, I initially assumed that comment should be edited as part of release cycle, not patch, but then that discussion started and you kind of supported it, so now I'm totally confused xD 18:14:32 <frosch123> _dp_: currently you change 1.8.x into 1.8.0 18:14:40 <frosch123> just don't modify that line :) 18:15:13 <_dp_> frosch123, so, add "198" line but not change 197...? 18:15:35 <frosch123> yep 18:16:20 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: all (future) 1.8.x releases will still use the old savegame version 18:16:45 <frosch123> (i would not have cared bout the 198 line being added or not, but 197 should not be changed) 18:16:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:17:39 <andythenorth> Pikka is it civil yet? 18:18:07 <_dp_> frosch123, ok, changed it back 18:18:18 <Pikka> moderately 18:18:33 <andythenorth> I've invented a new game mode for OpenTTD 18:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> battle royale? 18:19:42 <andythenorth> instead of playing as a company, play as minor deity 18:19:47 <andythenorth> and sort out what the AIs are doing 18:19:47 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, what do you mean by that? I looked at version 194-195 when I was changing the comment 18:19:47 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9030/more%20civil.png 18:20:12 <nielsm> lung cancer? 18:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: i don't know what those lines say 18:20:51 <Pikka> oh dear andythenorth 18:20:52 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, 194 26881 1.5.x, 1.6.0; 195 27572 1.6.x 18:21:09 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: what i meant was that minor releases cannot change the savegame version, if trunk bumped savegame version inbetween 18:21:34 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, apparently it was changed in 1.6.1 18:21:37 <Pikka> I'm supposed to be spriting but I keep tinkering with it, I'm improving the bus stop building, which is the oldest part of the code :) 18:21:59 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: well, it can be done if there was no trunk bump 18:22:16 <Eddi|zuHause> then trunk and release can bump simultaneously 18:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> (for varying degrees of "simultaneous") 18:23:20 * andythenorth wonders how to name the new game 18:23:33 <andythenorth> 'somewhat deity' 18:23:49 <Wolf01> "game new #4____" 18:24:11 <Wolf01> Or like my saves: "w", "w1", "wwwwww" 18:24:54 <Alberth> game20180502 :) 18:25:06 <andythenorth> I didn't mean the save :P 18:25:13 <andythenorth> this is a new game mode :P 18:25:23 <andythenorth> AIs make a mess, your goal is to tidy it up 18:25:26 <frosch123> "sheeple" 18:25:38 <andythenorth> you get ~money and ~unrestricted building 18:25:44 * _dp_ playing that game for 3 years already 18:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> herding cats 18:25:50 <Wolf01> ^ 18:25:52 <_dp_> called "server administration" 18:25:55 <andythenorth> cat herding 18:26:02 <_dp_> sorting out the mess players taught by AI do 18:26:06 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, it is not new. when noai was added and the original ai was removed, multiple people complained that the gamemode "takeover ai companies and fix their mess" was removed 18:26:30 <andythenorth> ha 18:26:34 <andythenorth> yes I think I played that 18:26:43 <Alberth> baldys boss made an art of it :p 18:27:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me of the time when i played the TT demo and "learned" building sidings from the AI (but not "learning" about signals) 18:28:05 <Eddi|zuHause> or one of the screenshots in the TT manual which showed a multi track station, but also didn't include signals 18:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> which confused my brother a lot 18:28:36 <andythenorth> I think I remember that screenshot :P 18:28:57 <nielsm> I wonder if I have my original manual still 18:29:12 <nielsm> I remember it putting "windows" in quotes every time when talking about window management etc 18:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i lost my orginal box at some point 18:32:45 <TrueBrain> CI queue is long today :( 18:34:16 <andythenorth> so Horse, narrow gauge trains 18:34:17 <andythenorth> what? 18:34:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: only have the length of last weekend 18:35:11 <TrueBrain> now I have to remember where the strings of the downloads are stored .. like "Windows XP / Vista / 7" 18:35:15 <TrueBrain> really cannot remember ... 18:35:36 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 18:35:44 <frosch123> grep? 18:35:51 <TrueBrain> on what ... 18:35:59 <TrueBrain> I believe it was some separate file telling the mapping 18:37:50 <TrueBrain> ah .. found the filename .. now where is it located ... 18:38:18 *** roidal has quit IRC 18:38:35 <michi_cc> nielsm: I uploaded a music sample to GH to show what I mean. 18:38:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:38:51 <nielsm> just saw 18:39:14 <nielsm> odd, I don't get any reverb effects with the MS synth 18:46:04 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 18:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: separate narrowhorse set? 18:47:19 <andythenorth> nah, although it's a valid suggestion 18:47:48 <andythenorth> better in a roster 18:48:05 <andythenorth> the appeal of a separate set is just making it once ;P 18:48:48 <andythenorth> in UK / Ireland horse, I think it's one engine every 40 years 18:49:00 <andythenorth> and maybe pax railcar 18:49:40 <andythenorth> but a case could be made for small (4/8) and large (6/8) engines 18:53:11 <andythenorth> and also for 'fast' (pax, mail) and 'slow' (freight) 18:53:19 <andythenorth> just not sure it's worth all that :P 18:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> there isn't really a lot of "fast" narrow gauge around 18:55:56 <andythenorth> only in QLD with Pikka 18:56:20 <andythenorth> it would be 5-10mph different at best 18:56:23 <andythenorth> so let's not 18:56:25 <Pikka> "fast" 18:56:45 <Pikka> that's the problem with a queensland set 18:56:52 <Pikka> 1900 to 2000, everything's 50mph 18:58:23 * andythenorth deletes QLD roster :P 19:02:19 <supermop_work> andythenorth: jr 19:04:26 <andythenorth> probly, one day 19:04:32 <andythenorth> and FIRS too 19:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you could just make wagonspeedlimits different by 5-10mph, and leave the engine speed the higher of both 19:05:35 <andythenorth> yes 19:05:39 <andythenorth> that is very plausible 19:06:20 <andythenorth> in this roster, NG is something like "I want a bigger tram" 19:06:32 <andythenorth> rather than "I want a smaller train" 19:06:59 <andythenorth> point-point A->B routes, two or three trains, no big network 19:07:29 <Eddi|zuHause> most new tram systems of the past few years have been standard gauge 19:07:47 <andythenorth> I think we can overlook that in the game design :) 19:08:09 <andythenorth> or it supports the argument somehow, dunno 19:18:20 *** synchris has quit IRC 19:27:34 *** nielsm has quit IRC 19:32:20 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 19:43:34 <nielsm> that's kinda odd 19:43:55 <nielsm> if you set an output port on the dmusic driver it forces the ms synth into a compatibility mode or something 19:44:13 <nielsm> and it becomes all dry sounding 19:44:41 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 20:02:10 <andythenorth> do I cap out NG performance at year 19xx? Or keep upgrading generations until 2020? 20:04:36 <V453000> 2100 are slugs obviously 20:04:41 <V453000> compatible with NG 20:04:45 <andythenorth> 100mph? 20:04:50 <andythenorth> standard slug speed? 20:05:07 <V453000> 180 20:05:12 <andythenorth> such fast 20:07:12 <frosch123> andythenorth: make them drive faster when there is at least one curve along the train 20:07:29 <andythenorth> to encourage bendy tracks? 20:07:35 <frosch123> yes 20:07:41 <frosch123> the only point of narrow gauge is bendy 20:07:47 <frosch123> so penalise straight track 20:08:08 <andythenorth> can I overflow curve speed penalty? 20:08:11 <frosch123> people can build zig-zag, but that will make the track longer 20:08:12 * andythenorth looks 20:09:03 <V453000> wait you can do that? 20:09:16 <V453000> trains faster at curves? 20:10:16 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles/Trains#cite_note-5 20:10:29 <andythenorth> can't set the value :P 20:10:51 <nielsm> michi_cc, from reading some more docs, as far as I can tell if you want to use the DirectMusic synth low-level you have to manage effects yourself as well, possibly even per channel too, which will probably get really hairy 20:11:17 <frosch123> hmm, looks like max speed is cached too much 20:11:23 <V453000> well tilt is tilt, but trains actually going faster when in curves than on straight track? 20:11:26 <frosch123> you cannot change it while running 20:11:29 <V453000> :D that's probably for the better frosch123 :P 20:11:47 <andythenorth> could do it on railtype change :P 20:11:56 <andythenorth> can I do a railtype with some angles missing :P 20:12:29 <V453000> :d 20:12:34 <frosch123> make cargo aging? 20:12:39 <V453000> spoilers: game doesn't actually have curves :P 20:12:47 <frosch123> people who travel my narrow gauge get bored on straight track? 20:13:17 <andythenorth> applying the tilt bonus might be valid :P 20:13:32 <andythenorth> just sticking to things the spec actually offers :P 20:14:13 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:14:16 * V453000 is going to do some nasty shit regardless. 20:14:36 <frosch123> well, running cost is always an option 20:14:57 <andythenorth> mostly, I depend on "well it looks different" 20:15:30 <V453000> high running cost when on straight tracks? :D 20:15:37 <frosch123> exactly 20:15:46 <V453000> sounds mental, I love it 20:16:06 <V453000> yeah, that probably not. The one which stops at signals and increases price, likely yes 20:16:17 <V453000> in combination with almost 0 cargo decay rate 20:16:20 <frosch123> snakes have difficulty on straights 20:16:25 <V453000> so you can get better profits but your trains must not stop 20:16:27 <frosch123> they need to snake to move forward 20:16:30 <V453000> :D 20:16:46 <V453000> ok your logic wins, putting it on the list of wtf ideas 20:18:06 <V453000> btw https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/part/wiki/Concept 20:20:26 <V453000> need to finish 1 full engine with wagons for it and I'll code a prototype 20:21:46 <frosch123> i don't get the refittable part 20:22:25 <V453000> it's also universal in terms of cargoes but every cargo has 7 subrefits? :D 20:22:31 <V453000> 6 20:22:35 <V453000> actually 5 20:22:40 <V453000> what's the max amount of subrefits? :D 20:22:53 <frosch123> what do they do? 20:23:11 <frosch123> you cannot change subrefit via orders 20:23:21 <V453000> you can 20:23:35 <V453000> I had colour-changing trains from NUTS and those do it via subrefit 20:24:39 <frosch123> we removed that in 1.4 20:24:48 <V453000> what? 20:24:49 <frosch123> it did not work 20:25:06 <frosch123> gone since december 2013 20:26:44 <V453000> oh what the hell :( 20:26:51 <V453000> that was one of the most important parts :d 20:26:56 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:26:59 <V453000> back to the drawing boards :D 20:27:21 <frosch123> also, i have no idea how you want to implement the booster parts :) 20:27:56 <V453000> I think we talked about it at some point and figured it should be possible with the store variable things 20:29:23 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:29:51 <V453000> well damn the subrefit thing really looks broken :d 20:30:00 <andythenorth> for boosters V453000 20:30:01 <V453000> ok. :D I think I can substitute that one 20:30:14 <andythenorth> I recommend you code generate a *really* horrible stack of switches 20:30:15 <V453000> but I was kind of guessing the store temp thing would be able to do this 20:30:25 <V453000> yes that's kind of the plan andythenorth 20:30:27 <andythenorth> all combinations handled, in switch :P 20:30:37 <andythenorth> it's definitely wrong 20:30:44 <andythenorth> but probably achieveable 20:30:53 <andythenorth> unless you have more combinations that atoms in universe 20:31:02 <V453000> I think the biggest problem was that I want to check if for example power part is at position 5 and then add it to some value somewhere 20:31:57 <andythenorth> store temp, no? 20:32:02 <V453000> yeah that's what I thought 20:32:08 <andythenorth> train has maximum length? 20:32:13 <V453000> know that I don't really understand propely what the store temp does :P 20:32:13 <frosch123> it would work if the booster parts have to follow the engine immediately, and there is a limited amount of them 20:32:20 <frosch123> say, not more than 10 20:32:46 <frosch123> but you cannot make the engine scan the whole train and count booster parts 20:33:04 <frosch123> or is there only one booster part per type? do they stack? 20:33:26 <andythenorth> can't keep offsetting to a vehicle and checking ID? 20:33:47 <frosch123> no loops :) 20:33:54 <andythenorth> generated switch 20:33:58 <andythenorth> count length of consist 20:33:58 <V453000> oh 20:34:08 <frosch123> also kind of excessive for longer trains 20:34:12 <andythenorth> my proposal isn't _good_ or _nice_ 20:34:29 <andythenorth> "wagon power" nonsense? o_O 20:34:32 <frosch123> but yeah, you can try to generate 1k switches to check 256 vehicles for 4 things each :p 20:34:48 <andythenorth> frosch123: yeah, I think we should watch V do that 20:34:51 <andythenorth> it's just a tree 20:35:12 <andythenorth> FIRS has some equal horrors in it for location checks, and for terrain aware tiles 20:35:42 <andythenorth> maybe not 'equal', by an order of magnitude :P 20:36:06 <V453000> so I can't have 1 engine with 10 wagons where they are kind of random part types, where first and last 3 are power so fist one adds 12800, second one 8533, third one 6400, and the ones at the end 2560, 2327 and 2133 to the total power of those + some base power of the engine? 20:36:25 <andythenorth> not for arbitrary consist lengths 20:36:28 <V453000> or would it "just be fucking slow to compute"? :D 20:36:54 <V453000> hm. 20:37:02 <frosch123> would need trying :p 20:37:05 <andythenorth> "probably fine" up to some limit 20:37:26 <andythenorth> like most things :P 20:37:27 <V453000> well I guess the powered wagons thing could be used for power and the wagon would just check for position in consist, right? 20:37:51 <V453000> T.E. coefficient & engine weight increase not though 20:37:56 <V453000> neither max speed 20:38:02 <V453000> capacity part only influences itself 20:38:06 <andythenorth> well 20:38:16 <frosch123> the cached things are less of an issue 20:38:18 * andythenorth thinks of ideas 20:38:28 <frosch123> well, just try it, and learn :p 20:38:30 <V453000> what are cached things? :) 20:38:32 <V453000> ok :D 20:38:41 <V453000> I guess I should start coding before doing proper graphics then 20:38:42 <andythenorth> if you enforced, e.g. TL5 or something 20:38:54 <andythenorth> your life would be order of magnitude simpler 20:39:02 <V453000> that sounds pretty tough to do andythenorth 20:39:03 <V453000> how? 20:39:14 <V453000> buy 5 unit articulated trains? how do you customize them? 20:39:16 <andythenorth> isn't there some "can't leave depot" thing? 20:39:23 <V453000> oh holy shit :D 20:39:29 * andythenorth looks 20:39:45 <V453000> one of the aims was to remove stupid errors like NUTS' wagon connecting errors 20:39:49 <andythenorth> CB31 20:39:52 <V453000> now trains wouldn't be able to leave depot :D 20:39:54 <V453000> next level 20:40:10 <andythenorth> enforcing TL isn't too bad 20:40:14 <V453000> btw how would a set TL actually make it easier? 20:40:23 <andythenorth> because you only have to walk the consist once 20:40:23 <V453000> I still need to check for the positions? 20:40:42 <andythenorth> yes, but you don't have to measure train length, and build a stack of switches *for every possible length* 20:40:52 <andythenorth> it's factorial 20:40:58 <V453000> o_O 20:40:59 <andythenorth> for arbitrary lengths 20:41:05 <V453000> oh. 20:41:06 <frosch123> it's only linear :p 20:41:15 <V453000> well bonus above 20 units was meant to be the same 20:41:16 <andythenorth> is it? 20:41:26 <andythenorth> @calc. 5! 20:41:27 <V453000> could be above 10 units 20:41:31 <V453000> would that help? 20:41:34 <andythenorth> @calc 5! 20:41:35 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1) 20:41:50 <V453000> @calc 5*4*3*2 20:41:50 <DorpsGek> V453000: 120 20:41:55 <frosch123> V453000: essetially you need separate switches for vehicles at each position 20:42:17 <V453000> hm 20:42:23 <frosch123> if you need 5 switches to decide the feffect of the 1st wagon, you need 5 for the 2nd, 5 for the 3rd, 5*max length in total 20:42:30 <V453000> right 20:42:42 <V453000> @calc 5*128 20:42:43 <DorpsGek> V453000: 640 20:42:45 <V453000> not bad 20:42:48 <V453000> :D 20:42:52 <andythenorth> it's achieveable 20:42:56 <andythenorth> and you can code generate them 20:42:58 <V453000> is slow? 20:43:02 <andythenorth> who knows? 20:43:05 <andythenorth> nobody tried such a thing 20:43:10 <V453000> well code generation isn't a problem really, I already expect to have to do that 20:43:14 <V453000> right 20:43:22 <V453000> well I guess there's only one way to find out 20:43:35 <andythenorth> but imho, fixing the train length simplifies your life 20:43:38 <andythenorth> at least for v1 20:43:40 <V453000> I suppose next step should be make placeholder graphics asap, try coding 20:43:51 <andythenorth> also, all games have fixed TL always anyway 20:43:52 <V453000> I really don't like that one bit andy 20:44:02 <V453000> well yeah but why 5 :D 20:44:14 <V453000> length could be a parameter but that's horrible 20:44:29 <andythenorth> parameter doesn't win you much, then you have to handle the parameter in the code generator 20:44:36 <andythenorth> so you might as well just have arbitrary 20:44:43 <andythenorth> all or nothing eh 20:44:53 <andythenorth> TL5 because I was told to once 20:44:56 <andythenorth> or something 20:45:07 <V453000> well doing more code isn't a problem 20:45:13 <V453000> doing something that wrecks the game might be :P 20:45:29 <V453000> let's add frosch123's snake train gfx to make sure :P 20:45:32 <andythenorth> nothing advances utnil it's pushed 20:46:01 <V453000> ok I'll make basic placeholder images and try coding asap 20:46:37 <V453000> expect hopeless questions :D 20:47:03 <andythenorth> go big or go home 20:47:03 <andythenorth> etc 20:47:13 <andythenorth> also I expect to see use of depot flip 20:47:19 <andythenorth> so each wagon has A or B option 20:47:24 <andythenorth> and you can combo them 20:47:43 <Pikka> o/ 20:47:48 <andythenorth> lo Pikka 20:47:53 <V453000> yeah that's pretty nuts andy 20:47:59 <V453000> not too sure i want/need that 20:47:59 <andythenorth> also V453000 combo breakers, anti-easter egg 20:48:05 <andythenorth> some combos nerf your train 20:48:13 <andythenorth> Bad PART 20:48:20 <V453000> hi Pikka :) 20:48:22 <andythenorth> the whole idea is awesome 20:48:40 <andythenorth> you should make accompanying industry set :P 20:48:42 <V453000> I was thinking there would be a secret combination which turns the train into a slug 20:48:53 <andythenorth> special combo of flip 20:48:58 <andythenorth> like flip 1, 3, 4, 6 20:49:02 <V453000> but I'll most likely just have a separate slug vehicle because it's home railtype can be some railtype with high curve speed 20:49:08 * Pikka contemplates a single loco set 20:49:09 <andythenorth> or flip 2, 5, 7 for angry slug 20:49:10 <V453000> yes 20:49:15 <Pikka> where the single loco is a Class 08 20:49:18 <frosch123> V453000: oh, i forgot about vehicle var 60 20:49:21 <V453000> that was the idea & is possibility 20:49:27 <frosch123> different than i remembered 20:49:38 <frosch123> so, counting vehicles is fine, just position is hard 20:49:45 <V453000> what's 60? 20:50:01 <andythenorth> yeah counting is fine 20:50:02 <frosch123> count number of wagons of specific type in train 20:50:07 <andythenorth> and 61 is 'fine' 20:50:19 <andythenorth> oh no, not possible in cb36 20:50:20 <andythenorth> oops 20:50:21 <V453000> right 20:50:23 <andythenorth> bad news V453000 20:50:56 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Count_Veh.ID_occurence_.2860.29 20:51:01 <frosch123> oh, right, so position-specific is actually completely impossible 20:51:08 <andythenorth> yes 20:51:14 <andythenorth> because circ deps 20:51:22 <V453000> well that sucks 20:51:23 <andythenorth> and there's no perm. storage 20:51:57 <frosch123> V453000: so, counting wagons works, but no positions :) 20:52:02 <V453000> hm 20:52:06 <V453000> I guess it's something 20:52:18 <V453000> but that makes long trains ultra overpowered 20:52:43 <frosch123> just divide the effect by total number of wagons 20:52:45 <V453000> unless the efficiency of the parts drops with total consist length? :D 20:52:46 <andythenorth> or cap it 20:52:47 <V453000> :Ddd 20:52:48 <V453000> :DDD 20:52:51 <andythenorth> max boost 20:52:52 <V453000> omg. 20:52:54 <andythenorth> Max Boost 20:53:00 <V453000> hm 20:53:04 <V453000> that's not stupid idea either 20:53:05 <frosch123> so you use percentages, not total number 20:53:45 <V453000> soooooooooooooooo open scripting specs for vehicle grfs? :P 20:54:20 <V453000> the max bonus sounds decent andy 20:54:38 <V453000> but that just means that you get X number of parts which increase performance, and rest just capacity parts 20:55:04 <andythenorth> depends how you do it 20:55:12 <frosch123> make running cost exponential with length :p 20:55:18 <andythenorth> so far we seem to be talking about modifying lead engine based on wagons 20:55:24 <andythenorth> but why not just give wagons power? 20:55:27 <andythenorth> directly? 20:55:33 <V453000> power would be fine there 20:55:37 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:55:39 <andythenorth> and then mod that depending on position in consist 20:55:39 <V453000> but T.E and max speed? 20:55:50 <V453000> yes wagon power sounds ok 20:55:52 <andythenorth> put TE on wagon 20:56:03 <andythenorth> max speed, some kind of check of other IDs in consist 20:56:15 <andythenorth> so you find who is fastest wagon 20:56:38 <V453000> O_O oh, wagon speed limits 20:56:43 <V453000> T.E. on wagon how? 20:56:54 <andythenorth> don't use powered wagon shit 20:56:59 <andythenorth> implement wagon as engine 20:57:08 <andythenorth> then just give it excess TE 20:57:11 <V453000> holy shit 20:57:24 <V453000> that's actually 20:57:25 <andythenorth> you can ban 'wagons' being lead 20:57:55 <andythenorth> it won't affect TE of whole consist, but if you go excession on it, you'll get a result 20:58:06 <V453000> right 20:58:18 <andythenorth> TE isn't that relevant anyway 20:58:25 <V453000> it's very relevant 20:58:27 <andythenorth> I ran some tests this week with horse fast/strong engines 20:58:40 <andythenorth> HP makes much more difference than TE on typical slopes 20:58:51 <V453000> the train accelerates at low speed much better with high T.E. 20:58:59 <V453000> slopes are overall irrelevant 20:59:01 <andythenorth> yeah, for a few tiles 20:59:11 <V453000> that's important :) 20:59:11 <andythenorth> over a longer run, HP wins out every time 20:59:17 <andythenorth> just comparing head-to-head 20:59:28 <V453000> over a longer run yes, but generally I want engines which accelerate rather quickly anyway 20:59:34 <andythenorth> right 20:59:40 <andythenorth> well just boost it to excess on some wagons 20:59:42 <V453000> but yeah I could also skip fucking with T.E. and just keep T.E. at some number without T.E. part 20:59:55 <V453000> I'll think about that 21:00:03 <V453000> implementing everything as engines is hacky esp as you can't auto-join them in depot 21:00:08 <andythenorth> a high-TE, low HP engine might still kick the consist off at low speed 21:00:09 <V453000> and drag them manually 21:00:10 <V453000> but eh 21:00:20 <andythenorth> this is a bit close to some IRL situations :P 21:00:30 <andythenorth> where engines switch modes as speed increases 21:00:51 <andythenorth> controlling electric motors in trains is really sophisticated to handle different speeds + power demands 21:00:57 <V453000> OMG IZ REALISTIC 21:01:01 <V453000> abandon ship 21:01:01 <andythenorth> super 21:01:11 <V453000> interesting 21:01:14 <andythenorth> engines have transitions from series/parallel etc 21:01:31 <andythenorth> and if diesel-electric, the diesel engine responds to that in different ways 21:01:38 <andythenorth> it's not like driving a car :P 21:01:52 <V453000> ok on a scale of 0 to 666 how evil is implementing wagons as engines? :D 21:01:55 <andythenorth> not 21:02:01 <andythenorth> I implement pax cars as engines 21:02:03 <V453000> omg finally wagons introduction is in news :P 21:02:05 <andythenorth> in some cases 21:02:12 <andythenorth> it's like 5 21:02:14 <V453000> really? 21:02:24 <V453000> isn't that annoying to build? 21:02:29 <andythenorth> don't care 21:02:33 <V453000> click buy, add to train, click buy, add to train 21:02:37 <andythenorth> yeah 21:02:45 <andythenorth> but build one, clone 21:02:49 <V453000> I guess you only do it at the start and the rest you clone 21:02:50 <V453000> yeah 21:03:00 <andythenorth> power scales with train length 21:03:05 <andythenorth> it's kind of fine 21:03:21 <andythenorth> 2000hp for every 16/8 length 21:03:21 <V453000> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 21:03:34 <andythenorth> all your ideas are super-realism V :P 21:03:38 <andythenorth> try harder 21:03:56 <V453000> yeah I didn't like that mechanic much because that just gives you 1 way how to use the train without possibility to sacrifice capacity for acceleration 21:04:09 <V453000> I think japanese train set EMUs have same capacity in wagons as in engines 21:04:12 <andythenorth> refit :P 21:04:14 <V453000> -> you only spam engines 21:04:23 <V453000> haha 21:05:01 <V453000> I think the T.E. thing is going to work on the engines fine, too 21:05:18 <V453000> actually much better than on the wagons 21:05:30 <V453000> because if the wagons ADD to the main engine, then you reach 255 rather fast quite likely 21:05:34 <V453000> and need to add weight after that 21:05:37 <V453000> which is weird 21:06:04 <V453000> but if each thing is actually engine, then the first one just gets a metric shitton, and each one after just less, and then it just all adds up 21:06:11 <andythenorth> I *really* want to change depot-flip behaviour 21:06:20 <andythenorth> so each ctrl-click increments a counter 21:06:25 <andythenorth> up to 16, then reset to 0 21:06:27 <V453000> :D 21:06:32 <V453000> jeez 21:06:34 <andythenorth> I am deadly serious 21:06:41 <andythenorth> we can shim the existing behaviour for old newgrfs 21:06:56 <andythenorth> then train vehicles can have 16 'variants' 21:06:58 <V453000> for liveries that's glorious 21:07:05 <V453000> almost nobody uses flipping anyway 21:07:05 <andythenorth> or anything else you invent 21:07:15 <V453000> I won't either because my engines are articulated 21:07:16 <V453000> gg 21:07:17 <andythenorth> instead of some hard-coded livery UI which won't please the foamers anyway 21:07:22 <andythenorth> articulated engines do it too 21:07:26 <frosch123> do people still use the ctrl+click signal rotation? 21:07:27 <andythenorth> that's part of my patch idea 21:07:49 <peter1138> Hi! 21:07:49 <V453000> frosch123: the semaphore/light signals? 21:07:52 <peter1138> Livery UI what? 21:07:54 <V453000> Hi! 21:07:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: there's _another_ way to do signals besides ctrl-click? 21:08:07 <andythenorth> V453000: for PBS one way 21:08:15 <V453000> ah 21:08:19 <andythenorth> I never touch the signal UI, it's dreadful 21:08:21 <V453000> changing type after built 21:08:25 <frosch123> V453000: no, i mean build pre signal by a) select presignal and build or b) build signal, ctrl+build to switch from normal to presignal 21:08:32 <V453000> I do that all the time 21:08:40 <andythenorth> 'choose colour light PBS', try to never look at signal UI ever again 21:08:40 <V453000> switching in gui is clicks elsewhere->slower 21:09:01 <andythenorth> always b 21:09:03 <andythenorth> choose b 21:09:12 <andythenorth> the signal UI is just two rows of confusing blobs 21:09:25 <V453000> so frosch123 what do you think about implementing all parts as engines, instead of wagons? :D 21:09:43 <frosch123> didn't you already answer that? annoying to build 21:10:04 <V453000> issue is player can just let parts out of the depot without the actual engine, too? :D without annoying check for vehicle can leave depot that is 21:10:10 <V453000> I guess I did, just asking for more opinions :) 21:10:15 <V453000> andythenorth is evil and twisted 21:10:21 <andythenorth> V453000: try http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/ 21:10:30 <andythenorth> Helm Wind, from 1980 or so 21:10:37 <andythenorth> it is annoying to build 21:10:55 <V453000> well I can imagine stacking engines being annoying to build 21:10:58 <peter1138> Should I do some coding. 21:11:02 <peter1138> Or... clean the bike off. 21:11:15 <V453000> peter1138: wagons with power and T.E. please :D 21:11:18 <andythenorth> clean the bike 21:11:24 <andythenorth> it will be harder next time 21:11:55 <peter1138> V453000, they're called engines. 21:12:03 <V453000> exactly, iz problem 21:12:16 <andythenorth> V453000: you can just https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Visual_effect_and_wagon_power_.2810.29 21:12:20 <V453000> they don't automatically add to consist on purchase :P 21:12:42 <V453000> yeah andy I used that shit at some point in NUTS 21:13:06 <andythenorth> never appealed to me 21:13:21 <V453000> I know I read somewhere that it's not recommended to use or something 21:13:31 <V453000> and there was some weird exploit that I did with it, I can't remember 21:13:44 <andythenorth> probably totally fine 21:13:47 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:13:52 <andythenorth> we're just prejudiced against old bits of spec :P 21:14:04 <V453000> probably :) 21:14:24 <frosch123> andy is just on a track to relearn history :p 21:14:56 <V453000> andythenorth: the wagon count is just bonkers 21:15:05 <V453000> why do so many of them seem to be duplicates? 21:15:30 <V453000> 3 small dump cars, same stats, slightly different prices? 21:15:45 <andythenorth> have to use 'vehicles expire' 21:15:45 <andythenorth> otherwise madness 21:15:53 <V453000> but what is it for? 21:16:06 <andythenorth> generations 21:16:09 <frosch123> since when do you show vehicles in blue and red? 21:16:11 <V453000> oh what the 21:16:30 <andythenorth> V453000: only way to evolve stats innit 21:16:46 <V453000> well you have 4 hopper wagons without any stat increase? 21:17:14 <andythenorth> "wagon speed limits" 21:17:20 <V453000> OH JESUS FUCK 21:17:24 <V453000> :DDDDDDDDDDDDD 21:17:28 <V453000> ok you win 21:17:30 * andythenorth waits for V453000 emoticons 21:17:33 <V453000> iz defeat 21:17:52 <andythenorth> I'm not even pretending to any other solution 21:17:59 <andythenorth> idea, pursued to logical maximum :P 21:18:08 <V453000> bbut 21:18:10 <V453000> WHY :d 21:18:11 <andythenorth> I might hate it by 2019 21:18:33 <andythenorth> how else to avoid having only one type of engine? o_O 21:18:37 <V453000> well at least the engines are in clear steps to match them 21:18:40 <andythenorth> it's this, or just one engine 21:18:53 <V453000> you mean forced 1 network with different engine types 21:18:58 <andythenorth> if logic ruled, purest grf is this 21:19:04 <andythenorth> - one engine, ultra everything 21:19:12 <andythenorth> - one wagon, universal refit, no limit, 8/8 21:19:16 <andythenorth> nothing else 21:19:29 <V453000> well my philosophy with NUTS is that you have 1 network with uniform things, but the next time you play you build something else 21:19:38 <V453000> that's choice :) having 1 engine for each cargo type isn't choice 21:19:40 <andythenorth> also why has nobody made The Ultimate GRF 21:20:13 <V453000> it's coming andythenorth :P 21:20:15 <V453000> 0 wagon grf 21:20:17 <V453000> engine only 21:20:18 <V453000> G_G 21:20:21 <andythenorth> more ultimate 21:21:05 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:21:16 <andythenorth> now you broke frosch V453000 21:21:19 <andythenorth> bad 21:21:39 <V453000> no it's past 11 :P 21:26:39 <andythenorth> also build-drag, build-drag is boring 21:27:26 <V453000> ? 21:27:46 <andythenorth> wagons-are-engines 21:28:01 * andythenorth thinking of alternatives 21:29:15 <andythenorth> V453000: refit subtype crap? 21:29:41 <V453000> how does that solve anything? 21:29:41 <andythenorth> can't see how that works tbh 21:29:50 <V453000> :D 21:29:58 <andythenorth> just crap as usual 21:30:27 <andythenorth> yeah, messing with lead engine stats is fine 21:30:40 <andythenorth> ordered combos...not 21:30:52 <andythenorth> can't think of alternatives 21:32:26 <andythenorth> V453000: you could do it like slots in other games, e.g. tanks, racing games etc 21:32:37 <andythenorth> so you get 3 slots after engine 21:32:50 <andythenorth> and choose from 9 power-up wagons 21:32:58 <andythenorth> rest are just cargo after that 21:33:11 <V453000> all out. :P 21:33:22 <andythenorth> yair 21:33:41 <andythenorth> the slots thing is just a way to avoid 27 engines in buy menu :P 21:33:44 <andythenorth> not wtf enough 21:34:15 <andythenorth> once concept is set, pursue to max, profit 21:34:39 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 21:34:58 <andythenorth> also bed 21:35:07 <andythenorth> pursue sleep to max 21:35:32 <V453000> well I'd have 11 engines and 6 parts 21:36:34 <andythenorth> 72 million possible combos 21:36:38 <andythenorth> hard maths I did there 21:37:16 <V453000> omg ultimate train set 21:37:18 <V453000> also 21:37:28 <V453000> wagons as engines means you can autoreplace between wagons and engines 21:37:29 <V453000> ._> 21:37:45 <V453000> luckily I want to make only 1 "main engine" possible to attach per train 21:37:51 <V453000> so that fixes that 21:37:59 <V453000> because real engines are 16/8, wagons 8/8 21:38:03 <V453000> would fuck stuff 21:38:22 <V453000> still need to add checks to prevent players from building trains without the main engine :D 21:38:36 <V453000> which ... is that even possible? 21:38:41 <andythenorth> just nerf stats :P 21:38:44 <V453000> or just can't send from depots? 21:38:46 <andythenorth> 0 everything 21:38:47 <V453000> hm 21:38:51 <andythenorth> or can't send from depot 21:38:54 <V453000> hm 21:39:08 <V453000> can't send from depot might be the better alternative here 21:39:21 <V453000> although I can imagine it being quite hillarious to see wagon-only trains 21:39:38 <andythenorth> you could sack the lead engine 21:39:43 <andythenorth> just combo wagons :P 21:40:07 <V453000> that removes progression unless done by just a switch based on date 21:40:07 <andythenorth> legendary: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Constructicon_(G1) 21:40:18 <andythenorth> "They are also particularly notable for their status as the very first combining subgroup of Transformers." 21:40:18 <V453000> which doesn't require autoreplace -> bad 21:40:38 <andythenorth> just give wagons generations 21:40:41 <andythenorth> 66 of them :P 21:40:50 <V453000> hm 21:40:53 <V453000> isn't stupid either 21:40:56 <V453000> not 66 21:40:59 <V453000> but yeah 21:41:03 <V453000> could work actually 21:41:09 <andythenorth> long buy menu is fine, it turns out 21:41:11 <V453000> omfg. 21:41:14 <andythenorth> just don't fill it with shit sprites 21:41:25 <andythenorth> or pointless 'my favourite train' 21:41:38 <V453000> well 11 generations of 5 parts is still ok-ish 21:41:46 <V453000> having 11 + 5 I find better though 21:42:05 <andythenorth> MOAR WAGONS 21:42:10 <V453000> yeah, maybe just nerfing stats without leading engine is fine 21:42:10 <andythenorth> well 21:42:30 <V453000> andythenorth: visually it's like 14k wagon sprites :P 21:42:35 <V453000> ++ 21:42:40 <andythenorth> 'visually' :P 21:42:57 <V453000> cargoes, variations, generations 21:42:57 <andythenorth> all those grfs with lots of engines, and no wagons :P 21:43:09 <andythenorth> abolish engine 21:43:11 <V453000> iz wagons, just hidden in refit 21:43:16 <andythenorth> train is mostly wagons 21:43:27 <V453000> unless iz all engines 21:43:28 <andythenorth> ok I am +1 here 21:43:29 <V453000> G_G checkmate 21:43:56 <andythenorth> do big and small ones :P 21:44:38 <V453000> Option B is to still use wagons but with powered, max wagon speed, and ignore T.E. 21:44:59 <V453000> but I guess 1 is ignored, and max wagon speed can be toggled by a setting 21:45:04 <V453000> and powered doing weird shit 21:45:08 <V453000> -> no win 21:45:55 <Wolf01> 'night 21:46:00 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:46:16 <andythenorth> just go full wtf 21:46:58 <V453000> the engines are wtf but kind of controllable wtf 21:47:16 <V453000> autoreplace can be bullied by not allowing the consist 21:48:12 <V453000> oh, isn't idiot proof 21:48:19 <V453000> you can autoreplace the main engine to a part 21:48:42 <V453000> and not be able to go back because the leading part is the same as 1+ other parts in consist 21:49:17 <V453000> I guess can't leave depot does autoreplace the train and then make it stuck in depot? 21:50:15 <V453000> well, I better go die on bed 21:50:25 <V453000> this doesn't lead to places :D 21:50:31 <V453000> good night, thanks for talk :) 21:52:16 <_dp_> hm, interesting, when you set growth rate with GS it doesn't necessarily mean town will grow. 21:52:35 <_dp_> still requires climate-specific cargo for example 21:53:42 <peter1138> Okay done. 21:56:43 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:57:11 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:58:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:03:15 *** guru3 has quit IRC 22:21:58 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 22:26:16 *** guru3 has joined #openttd 22:26:41 *** rocky1138 has quit IRC 22:40:55 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 22:41:11 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 22:41:14 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 22:45:12 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 22:52:27 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:46:42 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC