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00:04:53 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 00:08:41 <peter1138> packet, not package. 00:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> really, those are the same word for me 00:26:42 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 00:26:50 <peter1138> Yeah, but they're not. 00:34:48 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, but you won't change that :p 00:35:48 <peter1138> Networks deal with packets. 00:38:16 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 00:45:23 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and tommorrow it's about installing stuff and it's the other way around. still the same word for me 00:49:26 <snail_UES_> peter1138: I saw the activity over at https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6805 ... 00:49:40 <snail_UES_> so is this going to be part of trunk? 01:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly... 01:03:03 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 01:03:39 <Eddi|zuHause> but also it could be another "... i had a patch for that" in 10 years :p 01:04:24 *** keoz has quit IRC 01:25:01 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 01:28:47 *** ^v has joined #openttd 01:28:48 *** ^v_ has joined #openttd 01:28:49 *** ^v__ has joined #openttd 01:28:50 *** Compu__ has joined #openttd 01:28:55 *** Hink_ has joined #openttd 01:28:59 *** BWBellairs has joined #openttd 01:29:00 *** ilbelkyr has joined #openttd 01:29:01 *** fxrh_ has joined #openttd 01:29:01 *** pendo324 has joined #openttd 01:29:11 *** FireFly has joined #openttd 01:29:16 *** ovoldemorto_ has joined #openttd 01:29:20 *** pinPoint has joined #openttd 01:29:21 *** ovrstorm has joined #openttd 01:29:22 *** pinPoint_____ has joined #openttd 01:29:46 *** ^v has quit IRC 01:29:48 *** ^v_ has quit IRC 01:29:48 *** ^v__ has quit IRC 01:29:49 *** Compu__ has quit IRC 01:29:50 *** pinPoint_____ has quit IRC 01:29:53 *** Hink_ has quit IRC 01:29:58 *** BWBellairs has quit IRC 01:29:59 *** ilbelkyr has quit IRC 01:30:00 *** fxrh_ has quit IRC 01:30:01 *** pendo324 has quit IRC 01:30:11 *** FireFly has quit IRC 01:30:15 *** ovoldemorto_ has quit IRC 01:30:19 *** pinPoint has quit IRC 01:30:21 *** ovrstorm has quit IRC 02:04:03 *** dvim has quit IRC 02:35:21 *** peter1138 has quit IRC 02:35:24 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 02:36:26 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:38:50 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:03:35 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 03:09:06 *** glx has quit IRC 04:20:41 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 04:28:05 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 04:28:22 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 04:58:14 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 05:13:26 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:36:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:43:15 *** Gja has joined #openttd 05:49:03 *** raz has joined #openttd 05:50:15 *** raz has quit IRC 05:55:38 <andythenorth> moin 06:06:15 *** Gja has quit IRC 08:08:06 *** keoz has joined #openttd 08:08:33 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:15:02 *** LJ has joined #openttd 08:16:08 *** LANJesus has quit IRC 08:34:53 *** acronix has joined #openttd 08:38:02 *** acronix has quit IRC 08:49:02 <andythenorth> soof 08:49:08 <andythenorth> petrochem economy in FIRS 08:49:10 <andythenorth> would be great 08:49:49 <V453000> dame 08:50:27 <andythenorth> what if I deleted supplies? 08:50:34 <andythenorth> and primaries needed specific inputs? 08:51:05 <V453000> would definitely make for an intersting economy, but one of the benefits to the supplies is that it's kind of clear that they do that 08:51:52 <andythenorth> yeah 08:51:55 <andythenorth> so no frac sand then 08:52:01 <andythenorth> and no POOP to arable farms 08:52:15 <V453000> xd 08:52:35 <andythenorth> but petrochem 08:52:40 <andythenorth> 'BTX' cargo 08:52:44 <andythenorth> and other silly names 08:53:23 <andythenorth> bbl 08:53:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:55:25 <Arveen> did i read poop cargo ? 08:55:50 <V453000> haha 08:55:52 <SpComb> no, it's fertilizer 08:56:59 <Arveen> ah, ok then 09:00:07 <FLHerne> I don't think having 64 railtypes on the current model would be sane... 09:01:24 <FLHerne> (but then I don't think 64 cargos is sane, and that's being done) 09:15:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:56:18 <peter1138> Can you describe an alternative model? 09:57:12 <andythenorth> it doesn't matter if it's sane :) 09:57:14 <andythenorth> but eh 09:57:35 <andythenorth> it's content, so the player retains the choice to *not use them* 09:57:47 <andythenorth> I think we agonised too long about arbitrary restrictions on content 09:58:24 <andythenorth> I can use Comic Sans on my Mac, even though Jobs was a vitriolic font nerd 09:58:33 <SpComb> is there a "download and activate all" button in the bananas/newgrf UI? :) 09:58:41 <andythenorth> boom 09:59:31 <SpComb> download all the railsets! 09:59:45 <SpComb> I remember seeing a screenshot of the resulting dropdown 10:03:11 <peter1138> Probably posted by me. 10:03:29 <peter1138> And probably caused the set authors to cry. 10:17:33 <andythenorth> so 64 inputs and 64 outputs per industry? o_O 10:18:29 <peter1138> Hmm, need to pick up that vehicle list stuff that was discussed a month or two ago. 10:20:25 <andythenorth> oh that was nice 10:20:34 <andythenorth> it will unleash all kinds of crazy 10:20:43 <peter1138> Even that had arguments about what it was ;( 10:20:45 <andythenorth> so many ways to use that for BAD FEATURES 10:20:56 <andythenorth> it was the grouping IDs no? 10:21:19 <andythenorth> and then [mumble mumble] about how auto-replace can work with that 10:21:37 <andythenorth> wavey hands a bit, and all is well 10:22:51 <peter1138> Making up features no user nor dev wants, woo. 10:23:02 <peter1138> More railtypes? It's not sane. 10:25:29 <andythenorth> but we can 10:25:37 <andythenorth> mumble user needs 10:25:49 <andythenorth> mumble don't do engineering for engineering's sake 10:25:54 <andythenorth> but where's the fun in that :P 10:26:06 <andythenorth> we're not building the tax return system here 10:29:13 *** arirang has joined #openttd 10:32:16 *** alpha_one_x86 has quit IRC 10:34:58 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 10:35:37 *** Blendify_i5 has joined #openttd 10:35:38 *** Cajs| has joined #openttd 10:35:39 *** Jamesofur has joined #openttd 10:35:39 *** Kirito has joined #openttd 10:35:39 *** banzaikitten has joined #openttd 10:35:39 *** rej has joined #openttd 10:35:49 *** Guest2056 has joined #openttd 10:35:50 *** slackjeff has joined #openttd 10:36:26 *** Cajs| has quit IRC 10:36:31 *** Kirito has quit IRC 10:36:39 *** slackjeff has quit IRC 10:36:55 *** UncleSamuel has joined #openttd 10:38:03 *** banzaikitten has quit IRC 10:38:03 *** Blendify_i5 has quit IRC 10:38:03 *** Guest2056 has 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IRC 10:43:54 *** xeroks has quit IRC 10:43:58 *** Cory has quit IRC 10:45:03 *** webpigeon has joined #openttd 10:45:10 *** SiLuman has joined #openttd 10:45:12 *** Oats87 has joined #openttd 10:45:14 *** MEPB has joined #openttd 10:45:20 *** TheSilentLink has joined #openttd 10:45:43 *** MEPB has quit IRC 10:46:08 *** TheSilentLink has quit IRC 10:46:14 *** torgeir has quit IRC 10:46:46 *** sailorhaumea has joined #openttd 10:46:49 *** SiLuman has quit IRC 10:48:25 *** webpigeon has quit IRC 10:49:05 *** Oats87 has quit IRC 10:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> we could have 64 railtypes and still enforce 16 per grf :p 10:52:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure encouraging users to add multiple railtype GRFs simultaneously will not cause any problems at all :p 10:54:09 <mikegrb> hah 10:55:30 *** circle has joined #openttd 10:57:41 *** circle has quit IRC 11:02:10 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 11:02:48 *** foddo has joined #openttd 11:03:03 *** dindon has joined #openttd 11:03:12 *** Thorne has joined #openttd 11:05:20 *** dindon has quit IRC 11:06:26 *** Thorne has quit IRC 11:07:04 *** foddo has quit IRC 11:15:21 *** sailorhaumea has quit IRC 11:15:33 *** jamesl has joined #openttd 11:16:13 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 11:22:37 <FLHerne> peter1138: Having speed limits, electrification, and/or gauge be orthogonal would make it less absurd 11:22:51 <FLHerne> But then there are the people who want weight limits 11:23:36 <peter1138> That old chestnut. 11:23:51 <peter1138> No, electrification and gauge are definitely part of the railtype definition. 11:24:18 <peter1138> Speed limits sure. 11:26:28 <peter1138> Not even sure about that. 11:27:22 <andythenorth> I'm fine with the absurdity 11:27:25 <andythenorth> it is what it is 11:27:41 <andythenorth> if we'd split electrification from day 0, maybe it would be different, but eh 11:27:48 <FLHerne> Perhaps it's just a UI thing 11:27:53 <peter1138> Problem with having all those things as separate features is you 1-take space away and enforce that space has to be used for those features (or wasted) and 2-combinatorial hell, 3-who defines what is what. 11:28:00 <andythenorth> and UI 11:28:08 <andythenorth> UI is a cluster fuck either way 11:28:13 <peter1138> andythenorth, no, electrification can't be split 11:28:20 <peter1138> electrification is not binary 11:28:23 <FLHerne> If track-types could be categorised like NewObjects, vast numbers of them would be less overwhelming 11:28:24 <andythenorth> oh yeah that 11:28:26 <andythenorth> ok 11:28:31 <peter1138> it's not yes or no 11:28:35 <andythenorth> well let's make groups for vehicle IDs 11:28:45 <andythenorth> railtypes is for the best in this best of all possible worlds 11:28:53 <andythenorth> but cargo subtypes are made of ass 11:28:59 <FLHerne> peter1138: If it was only catenary, splitting it as an overlay thing would still work reasonably 11:29:07 <peter1138> but it's NOT only catenary. 11:29:21 <FLHerne> But I can't see how third-rails could work that way 11:29:23 <FLHerne> (yes) 11:29:27 <peter1138> 4th rails 11:29:31 <peter1138> different voltage systems 11:29:59 <FLHerne> peter1138: I think different-voltage catenary would be fine 11:30:19 <peter1138> but if electrification is just a flag... then you can't have that 11:30:20 * andythenorth wonders about discussing things that are moot :) 11:30:21 <FLHerne> peter1138: "Build catenary" could have a 15kV/25kV/both dropdown 11:30:32 <peter1138> AC/DC it's okay by me 11:30:34 <peter1138> Oh fuck that 11:30:38 <andythenorth> 64 output cargos per industry? :) 11:30:43 <FLHerne> And the sprites aren't really affected by track type 11:30:57 <FLHerne> But third-rail really has to be part of the track sprite 11:31:27 <peter1138> I can switch and change my frequency. 11:31:32 <FLHerne> Hm, "build catenary" isn't quite what I was envisaging 11:32:17 <FLHerne> More like a dropdown "catenary: none, 1500VDC, 25kVAC, both" while building rails or using the conversion tool 11:32:32 <FLHerne> (but it still doesn't really work) 11:32:33 <peter1138> Anyway, last time we discussed this it came down to being totally a UI thing, and separate rail types is totally appropriate. 11:32:40 <peter1138> TOTALLY hah 11:33:49 <FLHerne> I guess that could extend to sub-railtypes generally, and leave the policy to newgrf 11:33:50 <peter1138> (And in that case, increasing to 64 types is just a stepping stone) 11:33:59 <peter1138> No, there are no sub-railtypes 11:34:03 <andythenorth> RAILTYPE GROUPS 11:34:07 <peter1138> FFS 11:34:10 <andythenorth> SAY IT LOUDER 11:34:25 <andythenorth> is it lunchtime yet? 11:34:55 <FLHerne> So the newgrf could define "90mph standard rail" with different kinds of electrication, or "25kV rail" with different speed limits, and let authors fight out which was better 11:35:14 * andythenorth back to work :P 11:35:15 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 11:35:44 <FLHerne> (I do find the one flat list very annoying) 11:36:53 <FLHerne> More of a UI-presentation thing than trying to make railtypes combine or inherit things, which is silly 11:37:31 <peter1138> Yeah. That's why cargo subtypes are a flop. 11:38:05 *** jamesl has quit IRC 11:38:25 <peter1138> Of course, cargo subtypes are not even an attribute of cargo types, they are defined by vehicles... o_O 11:38:47 *** connection has joined #openttd 11:53:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "cargo subtypes" are a complete misnomer 11:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe "vehicle subtypes" or "transportation subtypes" 12:31:22 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 12:38:17 *** connection has quit IRC 12:39:01 *** iamtakingiteasy has joined #openttd 12:52:06 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:00:09 *** iamtakingiteasy has quit IRC 13:00:48 *** maven_ has joined #openttd 13:05:51 *** maven_ has quit IRC 13:06:04 *** gsdg has joined #openttd 13:29:20 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 13:35:43 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 13:37:23 <supermop_work> yo 13:38:25 *** gsdg has quit IRC 13:38:38 *** gregf has joined #openttd 13:44:38 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:45:02 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 13:45:41 *** Smedles has quit IRC 13:48:51 *** cccyRegeaneWolfe has joined #openttd 13:48:55 <cccyRegeaneWolfe> Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/ 13:48:59 <cccyRegeaneWolfe> or maybe this blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/ 13:49:03 <cccyRegeaneWolfe> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate 13:49:07 <cccyRegeaneWolfe> Voice your opinions at https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#freenode 13:50:08 *** cccyRegeaneWolfe has quit IRC 14:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the spammers are mutating 14:05:09 <gregf> they are, yes 14:05:37 <nielsm> what kind of smear campaign is this anyway? I'm not clicking any of the links 14:06:13 <gregf> why not? 14:06:23 <gregf> the links seem pretty legit 14:06:31 <Eddi|zuHause> who knows, but the previous of these spams were from "amazon web services" hosts 14:06:32 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 14:07:02 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 14:07:03 <gregf> this makes the blogs look pretty legit https://archive.fo/UNfF2 14:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that still doesn't mean you should give spammers more reason to exist by actually reacting to them 14:10:43 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:11:21 *** timfi has joined #openttd 14:12:07 *** dvim has joined #openttd 14:13:55 <Yotson> It seem to be so called Joe Job spam. Freenode had some at the end of last year as well. 14:14:00 <Yotson> https://freenode.net/news/joe-job-spam 14:15:06 *** timfi has quit IRC 14:18:56 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 14:23:56 *** Smedles has quit IRC 14:23:57 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 14:30:56 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 14:30:56 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 14:31:54 <SpComb> TF has normal rail and high-speed rail, both with caternary... early-game trains can drive on both, so it's nice in terms of gameplay because it lets you gradually upgrade in the mid-game... what does 1500VDC vs 25kVAC even mean in terms of gameplay? Sounds like what you'd end up with if you mixed two different train sets on the same map 14:32:27 <SpComb> I mean, you can build the TGV and have it drive on normal rail, it'll just be limited to 120km/h 14:32:50 <gregf> Tharbakim debdog michi_cc Rubidium tyteen4a03 Hirundo SpComb rocky113844 Smedles masse Eddi|zuHause hrmny XeryusTC angguss[m] Alkel_U3 KouDy supermop_work greeter Maarten gregf Heiki Sacro argoneus Exec colde ccfreak2k Osai rocky1138 Westie avdg LordAro nauticalnexus APTX_ Mek Yexo murr4y gnu_jj 14:32:51 <gregf> Wacko1976 TrueBrain Flygon techmagus OsteHovel IgnoredAmbience cHawk orudge TinoDidriksen juzza1 LJ Antheus gas1[m] Mazur keoz urdh Sylf peter1138 crem2 tokai Extrems luaduck V453000 DorpsGek johnwhitlow[m] Hazzard Compu HeyCitizen Yotson manila[m] blathijs ^Spike^ pixeldanger[m] Terkhen Agiri[m] 14:32:51 <gregf> grossing Markk dihedral triolus[m] mikegrb Wacko1976-work Arveen Lejving_ FLHerne quiznilo Laedek mindlesstux tneo Mahjong nielsm reldred _dp_ Ammler vlanik2[m] Taede berndj SmatZ heffer fonsinchen swimstar[m] planetmaker dvim Webster cute[m] chomwitt UncleCJ KenjiE20 14:32:53 <gregf> Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/ 14:32:53 <gregf> or maybe this blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/ 14:32:53 <gregf> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate 14:32:53 <gregf> Voice your opinions at https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#freenode 14:32:57 *** gregf has quit IRC 14:33:03 *** abbeyripstra has joined #openttd 14:33:06 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:33:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:33:14 <Alberth> hi 14:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so much for "legit links" 14:33:39 <colde> Damn, it's started here now as well 14:33:46 <crem2> They even found my private IRC for logs collecting where I'm literally alone! 14:35:29 <colde> Ops might want to set +M proactively 14:35:37 <colde> i suspect they will be back 14:35:44 <crem2> It's far from annoying rate for now. 14:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> +r? 14:36:01 <Eddi|zuHause> or was it +R? 14:36:10 *** abbeyripstra has quit IRC 14:36:24 *** sebastianflyte has joined #openttd 14:37:19 *** sebastianflyte has quit IRC 14:37:24 *** ketralnis has joined #openttd 14:37:44 *** jonathand has joined #openttd 14:38:11 *** |_| has joined #openttd 14:38:50 *** govg has joined #openttd 14:39:00 *** cHawk has quit IRC 14:39:11 *** govg has quit IRC 14:39:13 <colde> Eddi|zuHause: +R prevents them from join, +M only prevents them from speaking, so it's the least intrusive way to stop them afaik 14:39:37 *** odd_ has joined #openttd 14:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> but +M will prevent everone else from speaking as well 14:39:58 *** odd_ has quit IRC 14:40:11 <crem2> But is there really anything to discuss? 14:40:14 *** oleo has joined #openttd 14:41:30 *** naos_ has joined #openttd 14:42:18 *** hvxgr__ has joined #openttd 14:42:27 *** by has joined #openttd 14:42:55 <nielsm> SpComb, afaik early electric railways were DC because those motors were cheaper or whatever, then later AC took over, but modern electric motors are variable frequency so AC line will get rectified and re-inverted at variable frequency 14:43:28 <nielsm> (so a modern multi-system elctric locotmotive just has a few different input stages to switch between) 14:43:50 <SpComb> newer AC trains can drive on older DC track? 14:44:11 <nielsm> but the simplified model of electrification every TT-like game has makes it difficult to give these differences gameplay meaning 14:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: it's complicated... 14:45:15 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 14:45:32 <nielsm> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Europe_rail_electrification_en.svg 14:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> DC is easier to construct, but has problems with long distances 14:45:47 <nielsm> you have locos capable of running on most of those systems just with a switch 14:46:22 <SpComb> why would you want to build multiple incompatible electification systems in the same game of OpenTTD :P 14:46:42 *** by has quit IRC 14:46:56 <nielsm> yes see it's difficult to implement good gameplay around systems where the player knows a choice is dead end 14:47:00 *** alphaseg has joined #openttd 14:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the early AC locomotives had problems with sparks in each phase, so they chose a lowered frequency 14:47:10 *** alphaseg has quit IRC 14:47:11 <nielsm> but historically the people implementing it didn't know it would be 14:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the countries which adopted AC later, chose the normal frequency 14:47:30 <SpComb> I just hope there's more to NRT than just forcing you to rebuild track at some point in the game 14:47:46 *** bigpet has joined #openttd 14:48:05 <nielsm> very few places have changed electrification system of an entire railroad 14:48:06 *** denschub has joined #openttd 14:48:07 <SpComb> like the original rail/monorail/maglev... electrified rail makes so much more sense 14:48:13 *** denschub has quit IRC 14:48:16 *** mikeoftheeast has joined #openttd 14:48:27 *** pixdamix has joined #openttd 14:48:33 <nielsm> usually you just keep building new engines to run on the old system 14:48:44 *** sporkwitch has joined #openttd 14:48:49 *** berft has joined #openttd 14:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the original monrail/maglev has mainly the problem that standard rail lost all the vehicles at some point, so you had to switch 14:49:58 *** harzilein has joined #openttd 14:50:01 *** jpX has joined #openttd 14:50:02 *** mikespears has joined #openttd 14:50:07 *** alex` has joined #openttd 14:50:16 <SpComb> main problem I see is that you can't upgrade from rail to maglev in-place, you need to replace all the trains too 14:50:29 *** thedragonfire has joined #openttd 14:50:34 *** arza has joined #openttd 14:50:36 <nielsm> yeah you can't do that in reality either 14:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> there's two problems with that 14:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> a) you shouldn't have to do that replacement 14:50:53 *** mfa298_ has joined #openttd 14:50:58 *** jpX has quit IRC 14:51:07 *** betawaffle has joined #openttd 14:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause> b) you probably don't want that replacement to be 1:1, you need much fewer trains after conversion 14:51:11 *** yugiohjcj has joined #openttd 14:51:15 *** brackets has joined #openttd 14:51:21 *** cprossu has joined #openttd 14:51:23 <nielsm> but in reality you can do partial upgrades of a conventional rail system, as long as the basic track remains compatible 14:51:28 <nielsm> ugh so much join/kill spam 14:51:34 *** irc-5225225 has joined #openttd 14:51:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have join/leave messages disabled for people who never spoke 14:52:05 <SpComb> yeah, that's what I mean by the TTDPatch/OpenTTD eletrification / TF high-speed rail upgrade being better in terms of gameplay 14:52:46 <nielsm> but the cost of those upgrades are almost insignificant in my experience 14:52:55 <nielsm> making them a no questions good choice 14:53:50 *** random has joined #openttd 14:54:01 <nielsm> and then the distinction between non-/electrified rail becomes pointless anyway 14:54:03 *** auctus has joined #openttd 14:54:24 <nielsm> if you play with infrastructure maintenance costs and the maintenance cost of electrified rail is actually significantly higher, then it might become interesting 14:54:25 *** ST2 has joined #openttd 14:54:26 *** |404 has joined #openttd 14:54:36 *** sscout has joined #openttd 14:54:39 <nielsm> also if you had to build and manage the electric substation infrastructure 14:54:52 *** ryanknack has joined #openttd 14:55:43 *** pelegreno______ has joined #openttd 14:56:17 *** sins- has joined #openttd 14:56:26 *** erasmus has joined #openttd 14:56:39 *** badon has joined #openttd 14:56:49 *** amar has joined #openttd 14:57:23 *** sielicki has joined #openttd 14:57:27 *** the_madman has joined #openttd 14:57:45 *** forextrader has 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has joined #openttd 15:02:26 *** timvisher has joined #openttd 15:02:29 <timvisher> Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/ 15:02:30 *** limbo_ has joined #openttd 15:02:32 <timvisher> or maybe this blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/ 15:02:36 <timvisher> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate 15:02:39 <timvisher> Voice your opinions at https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#freenode 15:02:49 *** milos has joined #openttd 15:02:52 *** atlas has joined #openttd 15:03:00 *** uptime has joined #openttd 15:03:05 *** maxalt has joined #openttd 15:03:11 *** chloe_ has joined #openttd 15:03:27 *** platonides has joined #openttd 15:03:44 *** randy has joined #openttd 15:03:46 *** timvisher has quit IRC 15:03:49 *** peter1138 has left #openttd 15:03:49 *** peter1138 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*** napsterbater has joined #openttd 15:49:07 *** joycepao has joined #openttd 15:49:07 *** joycepao has quit IRC 15:50:02 *** alexz has joined #openttd 15:50:06 *** alex` has joined #openttd 15:50:10 *** glyphie____ has joined #openttd 15:50:31 *** y0sh_ has joined #openttd 15:50:35 *** czart_ has joined #openttd 15:50:49 *** techman has joined #openttd 15:51:20 *** chachasmooth has joined #openttd 15:51:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:51:51 <andythenorth> pigment mine? o_O 15:52:18 *** smeggysmeg has joined #openttd 15:52:18 <nielsm> I think most minerals need some additional processing to be useful as pigments 15:52:24 *** grumble2 has joined #openttd 15:53:07 <andythenorth> that's ok 15:53:12 <andythenorth> I have sulfuric acid :P 15:53:14 *** ohelig has joined #openttd 15:53:38 *** barq_ has joined #openttd 15:53:47 *** avelardi_ has joined #openttd 15:53:51 *** wiggle has joined #openttd 15:54:07 *** cccyregeanewolfe has joined #openttd 15:54:38 *** m4v has joined #openttd 15:54:52 *** matlock has joined #openttd 15:55:00 *** icasdri has joined #openttd 15:55:08 *** arirang has joined #openttd 15:55:08 *** arirang has quit IRC 15:55:59 *** insidious has joined #openttd 15:56:33 *** trijetscud has joined #openttd 15:56:39 *** jack3 has joined #openttd 15:57:00 *** caf has joined #openttd 15:58:23 *** nstr_ has joined #openttd 15:58:55 *** mdk_ has joined #openttd 15:59:01 *** robink has joined #openttd 15:59:49 *** nb_ has joined #openttd 15:59:51 <nielsm> uh huh? there is industry_type.h and then industrytype.h 15:59:54 *** jollyrgrs has joined #openttd 16:00:12 *** get has joined #openttd 16:00:30 *** deltab has joined #openttd 16:00:43 *** mindjuju has joined #openttd 16:00:48 *** timotab|gone has joined #openttd 16:00:55 *** abrotman_ has joined #openttd 16:01:09 *** anataex has joined #openttd 16:01:10 *** anataex has quit IRC 16:01:16 *** jrg has joined #openttd 16:01:23 *** elenah has joined #openttd 16:01:44 *** blendify_i5 has joined #openttd 16:01:47 *** [itchyjunk] has joined #openttd 16:02:03 *** clonak_ has joined #openttd 16:02:10 *** darkmagic has joined #openttd 16:04:56 *** steveej_ has joined #openttd 16:05:12 *** welcome has joined #openttd 16:06:03 <planetmaker> nielsm, I guess there's a difference between industry types (as in different industries) and industry types (as in type definitions concerning industries). But it's rather... hand-wavy 16:06:18 *** em_ has joined #openttd 16:06:23 *** elenah has joined #openttd 16:06:27 *** host has joined #openttd 16:06:32 *** luke-jr_ has joined #openttd 16:06:45 *** lewsthanthree has joined #openttd 16:06:52 *** thomas has joined #openttd 16:08:11 *** fossxplorer has joined #openttd 16:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: *_type.h is for C++-types concerning * 16:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: and industrytype.h is about actual industrytypes 16:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i ever looked at either file 16:21:30 *** fossxplorer has quit IRC 16:22:19 *** waggie has joined #openttd 16:24:26 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:26:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:26:51 <peter1138> nielsm, similar for cargo and rail :D 16:27:09 *** Tony has joined #openttd 16:27:23 <Tony> hoody doody folks 16:27:48 *** Tony has left #openttd 16:34:51 <LordAro> maybe should consider +R again? 16:35:43 <nielsm> yeah 16:35:46 <nielsm> please 16:38:27 *** waggie has quit IRC 16:38:49 *** luke-jr_ has joined #openttd 16:50:06 *** iooner has joined #openttd 16:50:09 <iooner> Hey, I thought you guys might be interested in this blog by freenode staff member Bryan 'kloeri' Ostergaard https://bryanostergaard.com/ 16:50:12 <iooner> or maybe this blog by freenode staff member Matthew 'mst' Trout https://MattSTrout.com/ 16:50:16 <iooner> Read what IRC investigative journalists have uncovered on the freenode pedophilia scandal https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Freenodegate 16:50:19 <iooner> Voice your opinions at https://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=#freenode 16:51:08 <nielsm> LordAro: please? :) 16:51:18 <nielsm> or peter1138? :) 16:51:41 <andythenorth> is it a bot again? 16:51:54 <andythenorth> like a really polite bot? 16:52:07 *** Lejving_ has quit IRC 16:52:36 *** iooner has quit IRC 16:52:44 <LordAro> nielsm: i would if i could 16:52:55 <LordAro> anyone with op can 16:52:56 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 17:01:22 *** luke-jr_ has quit IRC 17:01:26 *** grossing_ has joined #openttd 17:01:56 *** ilera has joined #openttd 17:02:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:10:32 *** peter1138 sets mode: +R 17:20:46 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:22:31 <nielsm> oh where did andy go... had something for him to play with 17:22:32 <nielsm> https://github.com/nielsmh/OpenTTD/tree/indcargonum 17:26:43 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:27:36 <frosch123> @mode -R 17:27:36 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -R 17:28:12 <nielsm> frosch123: there's a large number of spambots constantly joining and getting killed by the network, +R was put back to limit join/part spam 17:28:26 <frosch123> oh, i thought i had forgotton it :p 17:28:29 <frosch123> @mode +R 17:28:29 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +R 17:28:38 <LordAro> frosch123: you did, TB removed it :p 17:28:47 <LordAro> quak 17:29:15 <ilera> i have a blind friend who's unable to use nickserv because of his disability and can't join the channel now :( 17:30:05 <LordAro> can use irc but cannot use nickserv? 17:30:10 <LordAro> bit weird 17:30:33 <ilera> yes, but he's disabled 17:30:52 <ilera> nickserv is not very accessible 17:30:56 <LordAro> i did read your previous message, yes 17:31:13 <LordAro> just as accessible as normal text, i would say 17:33:58 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:34:23 <andythenorth> o/ 17:35:02 <nielsm> hi andythenorth, here's something for you to play with: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6867 17:35:14 <andythenorth> ha ha 17:35:30 <andythenorth> that diverts my evening :P 17:38:33 *** ilera has quit IRC 17:48:51 <nielsm> andythenorth: I'm not sure if anything else needs to be done for it to also work with newgrf so please report back :D 17:49:10 <andythenorth> I'll need to patch some stuff locally probs 17:49:20 <andythenorth> let's see 17:49:33 <nielsm> ah nmlc patch again maybe? 17:49:57 <andythenorth> maybe 17:50:00 <andythenorth> we'll see 17:50:21 * andythenorth building 17:54:42 <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: "generated/firs.nml", line 219485: Cargo list must be an array with no more than 2 values 17:54:46 <andythenorth> yeah I need to patch that 18:05:51 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 18:07:45 <nielsm> okay this is wrong https://0x0.st/sV4n.png 18:16:05 <nielsm> fixed that, and then hacked in this https://0x0.st/sV47.png 18:16:31 <andythenorth> it's attractive now eh :D 18:16:39 <nielsm> burn all the stuff 18:17:03 * andythenorth tries to fix nmlc 18:19:20 <andythenorth> hopefully trivial 18:20:07 <andythenorth> it's weird 18:20:22 <andythenorth> I have totally changed position on removing limits in newgrf features 18:20:32 <andythenorth> seems to co-incide with quitting forums 18:22:57 <andythenorth> ooof 18:23:07 <andythenorth> I always forget how to get the patched nml installed :P 18:23:18 <andythenorth> done now 18:25:04 * andythenorth wonders 18:25:18 <andythenorth> why prod_cargo_types is limited to 2 in nml (looks right) 18:25:27 <andythenorth> but accept_cargo_types is limited to 4 (looks wrong) 18:25:36 <andythenorth> oh that's bytes 18:26:09 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 18:26:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 18:26:37 <andythenorth> nielsm: have you got an nml checkout? :P 18:26:48 <nielsm> no, never touched it 18:26:59 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nml/repository 18:27:09 <andythenorth> it's pretty simple 18:27:26 <andythenorth> I might be able to do this, but I might need someone else playing along at home :P 18:29:41 <andythenorth> hmm it's built a newgrf 18:29:52 <andythenorth> but openttd thinks its invalid 18:30:53 <andythenorth> nielsm: https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9070/firs.grf 18:31:38 <nielsm> does nml use python 2 or 3? 18:32:20 <andythenorth> python 3 18:32:24 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pk2lvldbm/jzc9dj/raw 18:33:00 <andythenorth> that compiles, but the change from 2 bytes to 4 looks odd and weird 18:33:02 *** tokai has quit IRC 18:33:35 <nielsm> I think 16 is the correct number 18:33:44 <nielsm> oh... no 18:33:47 <nielsm> hmm 18:35:31 <andythenorth> if I remember correctly 18:35:43 <andythenorth> the newgrf format needs to know how many bytes to expect in an action 0 18:35:54 * andythenorth checks the current sizing 18:36:31 <andythenorth> yeah prop 10 is a word 18:36:36 <andythenorth> and prop 11 is a dword 18:36:37 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries 18:36:49 <andythenorth> we might need to change those on the ottd side as well 18:37:09 <andythenorth> within certain parameters, nml will just right out what it's given 18:37:18 <nielsm> I have no idea how newgrf stuff works at all :) 18:37:21 <andythenorth> so the nml side might be done with my patch 18:37:34 <andythenorth> oh it's just a bunch of bytes :D 18:37:52 <andythenorth> let's see if we can find ottd reading prop 10 18:38:01 <andythenorth> there's a table somewhere maybe 18:38:18 <nielsm> ahh 18:38:27 <nielsm> both would need to become 16 byte types somehow 18:38:37 <andythenorth> yes 18:38:56 <andythenorth> oh it's a byte per cargo? 18:39:13 <nielsm> yes 18:39:20 <andythenorth> right 18:39:22 <Eddi|zuHause> why 16? 18:39:36 <nielsm> it felt like a good number 18:39:42 <Eddi|zuHause> wouldn't 8 suffice for 64 bits? 18:39:59 <nielsm> it's an array of cargoIDs 18:40:03 <nielsm> not a bitmask 18:40:36 <andythenorth> ok so nml might not know how to write out 16 :P 18:40:51 <andythenorth> and I need to find these props in ottd somewhere 18:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> cargo ID is a byte? 18:42:14 <andythenorth> nfo docs suggest so 18:42:22 <andythenorth> but I haven't found where in ottd code this is yes 18:42:27 <andythenorth> yes / yet /s 18:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it would surprise me if nmlc had trouble writing a string of 16 bytes 18:42:55 <andythenorth> me too 18:43:11 <andythenorth> but it might have integrity checks 18:43:13 * andythenorth tests 18:43:31 <nielsm> ottd probably doesn't expect any more than the 2 and 4 bytes 18:43:39 <nielsm> so 16 would confuse it 18:43:42 <andythenorth> yes 18:43:47 <andythenorth> and it will report invalid sprites likely 18:43:58 <andythenorth> and then we have to think about older grfs 18:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that change probably needs a grf version bump 18:44:13 <andythenorth> about time 18:44:27 <Eddi|zuHause> or a new property deprecating the old one 18:44:40 <nielsm> maybe new actions are needed for the extension 18:45:02 <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: nmlc: An internal error has occurred: 18:45:13 <andythenorth> .... 18:45:13 <andythenorth> line 190, in print_varx 18:45:47 <andythenorth> well we've learnt something about scope :) 18:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, vars (as in "used in varaction2 or action6/7/9/D) can't be more than 4 bytes 18:46:26 <nielsm> oh yes lots of this needs updating in ways https://0x0.st/sVJA.png 18:47:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i was assuming you're modifying a property, not a var 18:47:25 <nielsm> just looking through newgrf_industries.cpp for things right now 18:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause> (as in, action0) 18:47:30 <nielsm> and noticing more incompatibilities 18:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: spoiler alert: it's almost never as easy as the first hack suggests :p 18:48:13 <nielsm> :) 18:50:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: nielsm: i guess you will have to define the newgrf syntax first 18:50:16 <nielsm> looks like it 18:50:16 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pg1abrk2j <- suggestion for a start 18:50:44 <frosch123> with no guarantees for completeness or suitability :) 18:50:45 <andythenorth> how about a CB? :P 18:50:49 <andythenorth> called 16 times :P 18:50:58 * andythenorth uses the 'CB get out of jail free' card :P 18:53:07 <nielsm> (having acceptances spread over multiple tiles also induces more interesting designs like "this is where we take in liquids, and over there are containers") 18:53:37 <andythenorth> historically I've avoided that :D 18:53:54 <andythenorth> it's used in $[some other industry set] 18:53:59 <andythenorth> and it confuses me 18:54:00 <andythenorth> but eh 18:54:06 <andythenorth> worth a try again 18:54:20 <nielsm> original industries already have that, for some reason 18:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah in PBI there was a food processing industry that accepts livestock at one side and wheat at the other 18:56:28 <andythenorth> the frosch spec looks pretty good to me 18:56:44 <nielsm> frosch123: "var 6E[x]: Date when cargo x was accepted last in days since year 0" --- game does not keep track of this, only a general "any cargo was last accepted this date" 18:56:57 <frosch123> yes, that one would be new 18:57:09 <frosch123> but iirc andy tries to emulate similar things for supplies 18:57:17 <andythenorth> it can be done with registers 18:57:23 <andythenorth> but it would be convenient as a var 18:57:29 <frosch123> feel free to skip it 18:57:38 <andythenorth> there aren't 64 registers eh :P 18:57:54 * andythenorth can't remember if they are word or dword 18:57:58 <frosch123> i just read over all the variables, to check which needs adjustment, and that one came to mind :) 18:58:37 <andythenorth> ignore me, we only need 16 anyway 18:58:37 <andythenorth> :P 18:58:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: depends whether you want to add 64 types of supply cargos 18:59:03 <andythenorth> well no 18:59:11 <andythenorth> if it's a CB, can I vary acceptance? :P 18:59:23 <frosch123> you already can with 3D 18:59:33 <frosch123> but it is messy due to the tile acceptance 18:59:37 <andythenorth> isn't it 18:59:43 <nielsm> the tiles would keep accepting the cargo 18:59:53 <frosch123> removing tile acceptance would be a different patch :) 18:59:59 <nielsm> the cargo would still be unloaded and paid for, just not delivered to the industry 19:00:31 <frosch123> nielsm: there are also callbacks to stop tile acceptance. but they are called at different times 19:00:56 <frosch123> so the few industry sets which use that, there are transition times 19:01:00 <andythenorth> varying acceptance is a terrible idea :) 19:01:11 <frosch123> where cargo is accepted/not yet accepted by either tiles or industry 19:02:09 <frosch123> anyway: this stuff is only used by industries with limited stockpiles 19:02:24 <frosch123> and those newgrf already complained that ottd only checks the acceptance once per cargo packet 19:02:32 <frosch123> so ottd always overshoots the limit 19:03:02 <frosch123> (if stockpile is 998, limit is 1000, and 16 items are delivered, it results in 1014 stockpiled) 19:03:37 <frosch123> so, touching anything around 2B/2C/4D opens way scarier barrels :p 19:03:44 <frosch123> *3D 19:04:05 <andythenorth> I think we back away from the barrels 19:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> oh i had some fun trying to set up overflow routes for cargos with PBI 19:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> needs conditinal loading, as in "leave stations if load amount > 0" 19:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... conditional shunting... 19:06:35 <nielsm> frosch123: I also left some comments about more boring aspects of the code in the PR, do you think you can lend some input on those points? 19:09:24 * andythenorth wonders when we move nml to openttd github 19:09:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: did we discuss that recently? o_O ^ 19:17:25 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://github.com/OpenTTDcoop <- this is how far we got :) 19:17:46 <frosch123> though i think nml was supposed to go to ottd 19:18:33 *** synchris has quit IRC 19:21:37 <andythenorth> yes 19:22:04 <andythenorth> it would be much easier to be able to PR the nml changes alongside the ottd changes 19:22:09 <andythenorth> or at least in the same workfloew 19:22:12 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:22:21 <Wolf01> o/ +R again? 19:22:43 <frosch123> too many furries 19:23:41 <Wolf01> I need to fix my connect script, a timeout after issuing the identify command would be nice when the server takes a bit to identify 19:27:16 <Eddi|zuHause> run the identify and the join in parallel, but precede the join with a sleep? 19:27:26 <Wolf01> Yes, that 19:28:40 <Eddi|zuHause> or run the identify and the sleep in parallel, and continue when either of those returns? 19:31:36 * nielsm tries reading the newgrf loading code 19:31:50 <Wolf01> Good luck 19:41:19 <andythenorth> nielsm: so keep going? o_O 19:41:32 <andythenorth> or bail out of this :) 19:41:44 <nielsm> I'll try to see this through 19:42:00 <andythenorth> nice 19:42:04 <andythenorth> I think it's achieveable 19:42:12 <andythenorth> adding a cb is usually easy 19:42:36 <andythenorth> it's one of the few core commits I've done, so eh 19:42:55 <nielsm> it's adding it in the right place :) 19:42:59 <frosch123> there are no new callbacks 19:43:05 <frosch123> it's only changing existing ones 19:45:05 <andythenorth> oh yes 19:45:12 <andythenorth> and it anticipates more than 2 or 3 in future 19:45:23 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callbacks#Decide_input_and_output_cargo_types_.2814B.2C14C.29 19:47:58 <nielsm> I'm concerned that the IndustrySpec not getting the default acceptance/production data might make things slightly weird 19:49:21 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwwcxs3a7 <- i've added some key words for grepping in th esource 19:50:07 <frosch123> nielsm: src/table/build_industry.h: extend "#define MI" with many "CT_INVALID" :) 19:50:24 <nielsm> frosch123 I did already 19:50:52 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6867/commits/d334cc64a6090b222d1585d989ad06af59d1628b 19:59:02 <nielsm> instead of/in addition to callbacks, would it be wrong to add a pair of new action0 properties that each take two bytes, the first is a cargo slot number and the second is a cargo type, repeatedly using the action with different cargo slot number sets the accepted/produced cargoes 19:59:37 <nielsm> possibly the cargo production property sets both cargo type and production level 20:00:30 <frosch123> changing action 0 is always a compatibility hassle 20:00:59 <frosch123> adding incremental properties is very rare, and would not work in this case, since there are default values 20:01:15 <frosch123> you could add a new property which takes a list of cargos 20:01:24 <frosch123> but for a first version, callbacks are easier 20:02:25 <nielsm> I think the industry chains window will be the victim, I believe it depends on the IndustrySpec definitions 20:02:39 <frosch123> hmm, i did not write it explicitly in the draft 20:02:40 <nielsm> and with just callbacks the IndustrySpec won't contain the cargoes 20:02:50 <nielsm> right? 20:03:08 <nielsm> as far as I understand the cb is only called upon actually constructing the industry on the map 20:03:09 <frosch123> but i think cb 14b/14c should be called once on game start with "purchase list context" 20:03:10 *** glx has joined #openttd 20:03:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:03:14 <frosch123> and then the cargos are fixed 20:03:25 <frosch123> this is almost the same as a property then 20:03:43 <frosch123> the result of the callback would be stored in the industryspec in this case 20:05:00 <frosch123> it's similar to the gui sprites of railtypes 20:05:18 <frosch123> but i think there were some more cases where callbacks are only called once in AfterLoadGRFs 20:05:47 <nielsm> e.g. CBID_INDUSTRY_INPUT_CARGO_TYPES is only ever used in DoCreateNewIndustry() which is actually building on the map 20:06:00 <andythenorth> that's fine no? o_O 20:06:03 <andythenorth> or do I miss something? 20:06:35 <nielsm> the Industry object gets filled with actual in/out cargoes, but the IndustrySpec is not 20:06:43 <frosch123> nielsm: yes, currently that's the case 20:06:53 <frosch123> see line 42 in my paste 20:06:57 <nielsm> so the "fund new industry" and "industry chains" windows won't reflect the actual acceptances 20:07:15 <frosch123> the idea is that "purchase list" would return all potential cargos 20:07:26 <frosch123> and for a specific industry the callback may choose a subset 20:07:43 <frosch123> that should make the chain and fund gui work better than before 20:07:50 <frosch123> while not removing the old usecases of the callback 20:08:20 <nielsm> ah the call in DoCreateNewIndustry already points at INVALID_TILE anyway, so no location information there 20:08:27 <nielsm> but it does pass an Industry object 20:08:41 <nielsm> just passing NULL for Industry* should be valid? 20:08:51 <frosch123> the call in DoCreateIndustry can use the current date and random values to pick different cargos 20:09:16 <frosch123> yes, NULL should be fine 20:12:04 *** cHawk has quit IRC 20:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there needs to be a special version of that callback for towns/houses 20:18:52 <nielsm> frosch123: so your idea for the flag would be something like this? https://gist.github.com/nielsmh/2e9275212e5b627551abed502b77fbd5 20:19:37 <frosch123> "unlimited" :p 20:19:55 <nielsm> it's like unlimited data caps on internet 20:20:41 <frosch123> yes, essentially that. maybe check for duplicates and treat them as error, but maybe that's a bonus 20:20:58 <nielsm> (the grf should be ready to live in a world with even more acceptance types than just 16 if that flag is set) 20:21:50 <frosch123> yes, "unlimited" in the name is certainly better than "16" 20:21:53 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, we did discuss that... yet coverting NML to git did fail for me and the straight forward import didn't do it 20:22:21 <planetmaker> it simply failed with some error messages (which I don't quite recall now) 20:23:06 <andythenorth> interesting 20:24:05 <Wolf01> 'night 20:24:07 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 20:25:22 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you also just gave it the hg.o.o URL? 20:25:27 <planetmaker> or how did you import it? 20:27:24 <andythenorth> hmm 20:27:36 <andythenorth> I thought I just imported it using github magic 20:28:56 * andythenorth tests it 20:30:06 <andythenorth> I don't have any hg -> git tool locally, so must be github magic 20:30:33 <nielsm> ugh the cargo suffix code needs some real restructuring to get to work 20:30:38 <nielsm> that's not for tonight 20:31:09 <andythenorth> :) 20:31:12 <andythenorth> if you achieve this 20:31:20 <andythenorth> I have to refactor all 6 FIRS economies :D 20:31:28 <andythenorth> it will take at least a year :D 20:31:41 <nielsm> lol 20:31:41 <frosch123> firs 64 20:31:50 <andythenorth> planetmaker: "No source repositories were detected at http://hg.openttdcoop.org/nml. Please check the URL and try again." 20:32:04 <andythenorth> same error? 20:32:42 <frosch123> https? 20:32:56 <andythenorth> let's see 20:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> is that firs for nintendo 64? 20:34:05 <frosch123> 64 bpp graphics 20:34:52 <andythenorth> 64x zoom 20:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause> 64D 20:35:23 <andythenorth> hmm the github magic is failing 20:35:29 <andythenorth> must be bees 20:35:40 <frosch123> you need 64 dimensions to draw the cargo flow chart without intersections? :p 20:35:40 <LordAro> not the bees! 20:36:37 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that's not really how dimensions work :p 20:36:53 <frosch123> depends how complex the links are 20:37:12 <Eddi|zuHause> any graph can be drawn without intersections in 3D 20:37:26 <frosch123> i am sure andy can find a way to make the edges a 63d manifold 20:37:36 <andythenorth> what if the links change over time? 20:37:44 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yeah, I think so. Irrespective of https or http 20:37:53 <andythenorth> :x 20:37:59 <planetmaker> Hm... maybe it's... certificate issue... 20:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so you need moving edges that don't entangle themselves? 20:38:45 <andythenorth> yes 20:42:19 <nielsm> okay too tired to work on this any more, gn 20:42:36 <nielsm> (hopefully I can sleep in this terrible humid heat) 20:43:40 <andythenorth> UK is quite ambient :) 20:43:44 <andythenorth> although I like it warm 20:44:02 <andythenorth> 19 deg right now 20:44:07 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:44:32 <andythenorth> nielsm: so I should stop reworking FIRS Extreme eh :D 20:44:38 <andythenorth> until this is done 20:45:02 <nielsm> eh you can plan the industries? :D 20:45:21 <nielsm> 16 in/16 out probably isn't changing 20:46:02 <nielsm> so yeah, good night 20:46:16 <andythenorth> gn 20:46:32 * andythenorth also 20:46:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:54:04 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:54:28 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:55:30 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:02:06 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:40:16 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:57:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:13:09 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 22:37:44 <peter1138> Hi 22:38:02 <peter1138> Is it safe yet? 22:38:06 *** peter1138 sets mode: -R 22:38:51 *** cgml has joined #openttd 22:50:30 *** madbrad200 has joined #openttd 22:51:53 *** Lejving has quit IRC 22:53:00 *** madbrad200 has quit IRC 22:53:15 *** snowolf has joined #openttd 22:56:57 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 22:57:06 *** cgml has quit IRC 22:57:07 *** APTX_ has joined #openttd 22:58:20 *** snowolf has quit IRC 22:58:23 *** weaksauce has joined #openttd 23:02:50 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> is it ever? 23:09:27 *** weaksauce has quit IRC 23:10:07 *** APTX_ has quit IRC 23:10:38 *** monoxane has joined #openttd 23:16:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i love people who claim they followed every step of the instruction 23:23:54 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 23:36:03 *** monoxane has quit IRC 23:36:06 *** nealshire has joined #openttd 23:38:38 *** nealshire has quit IRC 23:39:35 *** host has joined #openttd 23:50:00 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 23:50:00 *** glx is now known as Guest2100 23:50:01 *** glx_ is now known as glx 23:57:29 *** Guest2100 has quit IRC