Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:14:42 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd 00:21:09 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 00:42:06 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 01:21:04 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd 01:22:25 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:25:34 *** KouDy has quit IRC 01:26:40 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC 01:33:13 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 01:44:45 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 02:01:21 *** glx has quit IRC 02:10:01 *** Mahjong1 has joined #openttd 02:13:07 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd 02:16:40 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC 02:16:50 *** Mahjong has quit IRC 02:52:40 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 02:58:12 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:16:39 *** KouDy has quit IRC 03:35:00 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 03:50:29 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 03:52:01 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 04:00:08 *** KouDy has quit IRC 04:04:35 *** haudrauf has quit IRC 04:07:27 *** haudrauf has joined #openttd 04:08:14 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:55:14 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 05:00:18 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 05:14:44 *** Endymion has joined #openttd 05:18:29 <Endymion> Hi, two questions: 1. Is there a way to see the Station Ratings in-game? 2. Is it possible to get the calculation of producers/consumers easily visible to the user? 05:47:22 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 05:47:45 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 06:00:59 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 06:05:10 *** Endymion has quit IRC 06:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. no. 06:37:04 *** Mahjong1 has quit IRC 06:51:34 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd 06:57:04 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 06:57:40 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC 07:01:51 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 07:02:53 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 07:02:53 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 07:02:56 <Alberth> moin 07:06:42 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:43:48 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 08:19:03 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:21:39 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:21:59 <Wolf01> o/ 08:27:49 <Alberth> o/ 08:32:22 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:49:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:25:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:39:11 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 09:42:09 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC 10:10:42 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 10:52:08 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 10:52:09 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 10:52:36 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:55:06 *** gelignite has quit IRC 11:00:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 11:28:32 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 11:45:12 <Samu> it's difficult to make decent mail services 11:45:32 <Samu> with trucks 11:50:59 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 11:51:13 <andythenorth_> o/ 11:56:39 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 11:58:00 <Samu> Wormnest: any tricks to keep mail services profitable? 12:01:06 <andythenorth_> so 12:01:51 <andythenorth_> FIRS Extreme for each climate? o_O 12:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> no 12:14:38 <andythenorth_> because...? 12:15:25 <Alberth> o/ 12:16:36 <Alberth> wouldn't call it "extreme", it's a bad name to indicate the topic of an economy 12:17:01 <Alberth> likely that holds for "basic" too, but fair enough 12:17:10 <andythenorth_> opposite of “Basic”? 12:17:18 <andythenorth_> oh you said that :) 12:17:57 <Alberth> "steeltown" gives a much better idea of what to expect,imho 12:19:39 <Alberth> also, you're missing toyland climate :) 12:20:11 <andythenorth_> oof 12:20:51 <Alberth> haven't played in quite some time 12:21:26 *** Mahjong has joined #openttd 12:23:24 <andythenorth_> Delete Extreme? o_O 12:24:17 <Alberth> why would you want to do that? 12:24:29 <Alberth> you spend a few weeks developing it :) 12:24:42 <andythenorth_> i kind of wonder what it’s for :) 12:24:54 <andythenorth_> It was never designed 12:25:02 <Alberth> the name is not so good, but as it's one of a kind, it's "well defined" 12:25:59 <Alberth> what do you mean, not designed, you changed it for a couple of weeks at least 12:26:03 <andythenorth_> “Max Temperate” 12:26:48 <Alberth> I'd consider a lucky accident, and leave it at that :) 12:27:45 <andythenorth_> :p 12:27:47 <Alberth> some players like to play it, well, why not 12:28:16 <Alberth> not like RL industry chains are carefully designed at global level :p 12:29:21 <andythenorth_> RL industry is much more insane than I ever anticipated 12:29:51 <andythenorth_> all the unexpected inputs and by-products 12:30:06 <andythenorth_> and regional variations 12:30:35 *** Mahjong has quit IRC 12:31:08 <Wormnest> Samu: I have never specifically targeted mail 12:33:30 <Alberth> all local optimization :) 12:36:22 <andythenorth_> this started because I wondered about bananas cargo :p 12:37:34 <Samu> oh ok 12:39:09 <Alberth> sounds more like a "in a hot country" cargo 12:40:17 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 12:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> grr, just wanted to type a reply 12:41:05 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 12:42:31 <andythenorth_> probs 12:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth_> because...? <-- before you even attempt that, you need to get some actual player feedback, instead of just iterating about how you think it's going to play out 12:44:40 <andythenorth_> well. good feedback is valuable 12:44:59 <andythenorth_> but feedback isn’t design 12:45:15 <Eddi|zuHause> game design is hard, there are many player types, each one wants different things out of a game 12:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> some of those things are mutually exclusive and irreconcilable 12:46:16 <andythenorth_> I’ve sinplified it by only designing for a handful of players :) 12:46:41 <andythenorth_> simplified * 12:48:29 *** Mahjong has joined #openttd 12:53:14 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 12:57:34 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 13:00:08 <Samu> i removed the station spreading feature of LuDiAI 13:00:42 <Samu> well, not exactly removed, I made a setting that disables it 13:01:42 <Samu> now I'm pondering if I default it to disabled, or leave it enabled 13:03:57 <Samu> your thoughts on the matter? 13:09:08 <Alberth> what does it actually do? 13:09:25 <Alberth> (if enabled) :) 13:09:43 <Samu> distant join stations 13:09:58 <Samu> with his busses and mail trucks 13:12:16 <Samu> https://imgur.com/mlfw08j 13:12:23 <Samu> like that 13:13:01 <Samu> there are station tiles nonot adjacent to each other but still belong to the same station 13:13:49 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 13:15:05 <Alberth> i'd leave it disabled by default, as that's what users expect 13:16:10 <Alberth> ie you're more likely to upset users by constructing disjoint stations than you are by not constructing them :) 13:16:49 <Alberth> you could add a section with suggestions to change for more competitive play in the readme file 13:17:35 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 13:17:49 <Samu> when disabled, it doesn't expand them stations :( 13:17:53 <Samu> even adjacently 13:18:00 <Samu> perhaps it could 13:23:37 <Alberth> you don't need disjoint stations for extending a station, do you? 13:24:48 <Alberth> if you want to expand a station can't you check first if a simple building of an additional platform is possible? 13:26:40 <Samu> ludiai can't, but i could try implement it 13:27:21 <Samu> ludiai doesn't build a platform if it finds any other within 2 tiles 13:27:35 <Samu> it leaves a space 13:29:45 <Samu> local squareSize = 5; 13:31:45 <Samu> hmm this part of the code was already edited by me for solving the cpu evaluator problem 13:31:59 <Samu> and now I'm editing it even more :( 13:35:15 <Samu> this part was edited in, https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p4rtxmvyh 13:36:05 <Samu> i split it out of the evaluator function and made it basically two functions, this is one of them, the other is the evaluator function which became much smaller, maybe i should post it too 13:36:43 <Samu> ook, here it is https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pgzotajof 13:38:51 <Samu> in the case of expanding a station, the stationId exists and is not null 13:40:03 <Samu> whenever it returns true 13:40:19 <Samu> it means not to use that tile to place a platform 13:41:59 <Samu> if it returns false, it means there are no nearby stations and the tile can be evaluated with the valuatetruckstop function 13:47:21 <Alberth> code seems fine to me 13:47:47 <Alberth> not sure what it does exactly, but you likely know :) 13:52:00 <Samu> this is what makes it not place a platform next to the other 13:52:10 <Samu> but only a few tiles away 14:07:10 <Alberth> looks that way, but clearly you designed it as such for some reason 14:07:43 <Alberth> was that reason incorrect, or did you change your mind? 14:19:20 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 14:35:04 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:45:50 <Samu> this was already part of ludiai, i only split the function in two 14:56:35 <Samu> i give up 14:57:18 <Samu> no expanding of stations even if adjacent 14:57:25 *** KouDy has quit IRC 14:58:16 <Samu> now I'm onto another issue, about adjacent road tiles to the station tile 14:58:44 <Samu> a drivethrough station issue 15:02:37 <Samu> https://imgur.com/h4Biwya 15:03:04 <Samu> there are 4 adjacent tiles it considers 15:03:30 <Samu> the next and previous one in X and Y axis 15:04:06 <Samu> since it didn't find a road on one of the tiles, it reduced the number of adjacent tiles to 3 15:05:40 <Samu> now he's trying to get the nextAdjTile and see if it's the opposite of the adjTile so that it can build a drivethrough in the correct Axis 15:06:27 <Samu> essentially, it wants to find the tiles 58416 for the adjTile and 58418 for the nextAdjTile 15:06:37 <Samu> but it's failing to do so :( 15:07:53 <Samu> when it builds the drivethrough station, the function requires the tile where the station is placed and the next in front of it to get the correct orientation 15:09:24 <Samu> hmm complicated 15:10:43 <Samu> adjTile cannot be tile 58673 and that's what the code has used :( 15:10:50 <Samu> why 15:12:24 <Samu> AIRoad.BuildRoad(adjTile, nextAdjTile 15:12:42 <Samu> adjTile is wrong here 15:41:08 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAshphMfY3M mods or dlcs? 15:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: mostly mods, as far as i can see 15:52:40 *** Progman has quit IRC 15:55:06 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:57:14 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 16:07:28 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/peyued1ot 16:07:41 <Samu> could this code be improved? 16:08:13 <Samu> especially the part of using 2 AITileLists 16:08:20 <Samu> being copies 16:08:30 *** KouDy has quit IRC 16:09:38 <Samu> i tried to use the same list, but adjRoadTiles.HasNext() wasn't working properly 16:13:25 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 16:27:27 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:30:54 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: which mods do you suggest? I think I'll give a try to move it, traffic manager and I should find some to place lines/road objects 16:31:41 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a mod for oneway rail 16:31:54 <Eddi|zuHause> and some train station stuff 16:32:09 <Eddi|zuHause> last thing i tried was metro overhaul mod 16:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but i think i missed something there, i couldn't really get it to work 16:44:45 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 16:51:16 <Alberth> Samu: Why don't you compute all adjacent tiles from a tile that is in the list 16:51:50 <Alberth> likely only 2 adjacent tiles are enough in most cases 16:53:27 <Alberth> hmm, always inside the rectangle of the list eh? feels like it is always enough, but not sure 16:56:19 <Samu> they're adjacent to the tile in the middle 16:56:25 <Samu> not adjacent to each other 16:57:22 <Samu> the tile in the middle is the drivethrough station, and it has 2 adjacent tiles, its entrance and exit 16:57:40 <Samu> i am trying to get these entrance and exit tiles 16:57:54 <Samu> to be opposite 16:59:03 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:14:17 <Alberth> can't you ask the direction of the road in the middle? 17:14:25 <Alberth> entry and exist is trivial then 17:14:37 <Alberth> *exit 17:18:35 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:18:59 <Samu> no, at that phase I can't 17:19:32 <Samu> the station does not yet exist, these tiles are required to determine it's orientation 17:20:05 <Alberth> but you know the center tile? 17:20:10 <Samu> yes 17:20:20 <Alberth> then there are just 2 cases possible 17:20:53 <Alberth> no need to search for then, you can just create a tileindex one tile away from the center tile 17:21:57 <Alberth> or am i missing something? 17:26:09 <Samu> the middle tile has gone through other testings 17:26:19 <Samu> it's a "buildable tile" 17:26:24 <Samu> among other stuff 17:26:54 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:27:30 <Samu> if(! ((AITile.IsBuildable(tile) || AIRoad.IsRoadTile(tile)) && AITile.GetSlope(tile) == AITile.SLOPE_FLAT)) { 17:27:36 <Samu> this is for the station tile 17:27:55 <Samu> it's also been through the evaluator 17:28:07 <Samu> and the nearby station checking stuff 17:28:21 <Samu> essentially, sometimes it is not a road 17:30:22 <Alberth> sure, but adjacent tiles to a tile are just +/- 1 in either x or y direction 17:30:33 <Alberth> you don't need to search for them 17:30:45 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:35:13 <Samu> I don't know how to do it another way :( 17:37:32 <Samu> adjRoadTiles can contain 0, 1, 2, 3 or 4 tiles 17:38:26 <Samu> only tiles with roads are added, in a +/-1 X or Y direction 17:39:01 <Samu> this part of the code is reached in the case adjRoadTiles contain 3 or 4 tiles 17:39:22 <Alberth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p0luyro7m 17:39:26 <Samu> let me see 17:40:21 <Alberth> untested :) 17:41:43 <Samu> I don't get 4 tiles all the time, sometimes I get 3 17:42:31 <Alberth> my code only checks for tile existence, not whether they contain road 17:44:17 <Alberth> but if you construct the pairs of entry/exit, keep them together, so you can either discard them together, or use them together 17:44:31 <Alberth> thus eliminating the need to find the pair again 17:45:22 <Samu> if (adjRoatTiles.HasItem(tile1) && adjRoatTiles.HasItem(tile2)) 17:46:08 <Samu> adjTile = tile1; nextAdjTile = tile2; 17:46:12 <Samu> i see 17:46:38 <Samu> yeah, seems to make the code simpler 17:48:51 <Samu> Utils::getOffsetTile(tile, offsetX, offsetY) 17:48:57 <Samu> i can use this function even 17:49:02 <Samu> makes it shorter 17:57:33 *** keoz has joined #openttd 18:01:34 <Samu> Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqyzjd7sx 18:01:48 <Samu> like that? 18:02:55 <Alberth> if there is always at least one pair, that seems fine 18:03:06 <Alberth> you may want to check that though 18:03:47 <Samu> yes, there's always one pair 18:05:28 *** tokai has joined #openttd 18:05:28 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 18:05:57 <Samu> thx for the help, it became much shorter 18:08:47 <Alberth> I'd say simpler rather than shorter, but yw :) 18:12:24 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 18:22:20 <Samu> @calc 214/25 18:22:20 <DorpsGek> Samu: 8.56 18:24:29 <Samu> ludiai was unable to build mail aircraft, i just fixed it 18:25:01 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:25:21 <Samu> i'm now trying to deal with airports with too many airplanes, they can't all land 18:25:44 <Samu> how am I supposed to tackle this 18:28:37 <Alberth> how do you deal with bus stations with too many buses? 18:31:28 <Samu> if the ai detects too many cargo in an airport, it builds a new aircraft 18:32:13 <Samu> but if the airports become saturated, the profits for each aircraft becomes too small and the ai will then sell them 18:32:40 <Samu> this is a bad situation, got to improve it 18:32:57 <Samu> builds, then sells, then builds, then sells 18:37:42 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 18:43:42 <Wormnest> You make a guess of what the route can handle based on distance, airport size and airplane speed 18:44:35 <Wormnest> Besides that you can try to detect if there are planes waiting in hangar for a free spot 18:46:33 <Samu> wrigthai code doesn't accommodate for aircraft speed :( 18:46:42 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:46:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:47:14 <Samu> 281 18:47:20 <Samu> @calc 281 / 25 18:47:20 <DorpsGek> Samu: 11.24 18:47:29 <Samu> 11 aircraft 18:47:46 <Samu> on a route of distance 281 manhathan tiles 18:48:27 <Samu> (list2.Count() * 25 > dist) 18:48:39 <Samu> @calc 11 * 25 18:48:39 <DorpsGek> Samu: 275 18:48:47 <Samu> ah, it builds 12 18:48:52 <Samu> and shall not build more than 12 18:52:12 <Samu> I'm worried about the faster planes 18:54:51 <Samu> looks like 25 is a good number 18:55:04 <Samu> i'm not getting that many airplanes waiting to land 18:55:26 <Samu> 1 airplane each 25 tiles 18:57:55 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd 18:59:20 <Samu> perhaps i shall increase 19:00:20 <Samu> on a route with 12 aircraft, there's always 2 or 3 trying to land 19:00:36 <Samu> @calc 281/9 19:00:36 <DorpsGek> Samu: 31.2222222222 19:00:45 <Samu> 31, hmm 30? 19:01:31 <Samu> @calc 9 * 30 19:01:31 <DorpsGek> Samu: 270 19:01:43 <Samu> hmm no, got to be more 19:01:47 <Samu> @calc 9 * 35 19:01:47 <DorpsGek> Samu: 315 19:01:55 <Samu> @calc 9 * 31 19:01:55 <DorpsGek> Samu: 279 19:18:00 <Samu> dang, speed matters :( 19:18:04 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 19:18:27 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 19:30:58 <Samu> slow management by wrightai 19:31:02 <Samu> hmm 19:42:23 <V453000> the colour-trains-by-group didn't make it to trunk yet? :( 19:42:27 <V453000> also hi :) 19:59:25 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:03:45 <planetmaker> ho ho 20:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> is it christmas already? man time flies so fast 20:10:46 <Alberth> o/ 20:34:36 <Samu> @calc 10 * 35 20:34:36 <DorpsGek> Samu: 350 20:34:41 <Samu> @calc 9 * 35 20:34:42 <DorpsGek> Samu: 315 20:34:48 <Samu> ok, it's correct 20:49:05 *** wodencafe has quit IRC 20:56:12 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:57:59 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 21:02:44 *** Gustavo6056 has quit IRC 21:18:58 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:21:10 <Samu> there is a bug with WrightAI itself 21:21:24 <Samu> doesn't keep track of the correct aircraft used in a route 21:21:29 <Samu> aircraft id 21:22:53 <Samu> waiting for an assert to trigger 21:34:17 *** wodencafe has joined #openttd 21:41:02 <Samu> ah, I think I know how to replicate 21:41:38 <Samu> a vehicleID 50 crashed and poofs 21:42:08 <Samu> wait, this is complicated to explain 21:43:47 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:48:40 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 21:54:19 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has quit IRC 22:03:51 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:10:19 *** Yuri has joined #openttd 22:10:24 *** Yuri is now known as AngstyYuri 22:10:56 <AngstyYuri> 0hai 22:11:15 <AngstyYuri> Bizarre issue on OpenTTD downloads for 32bit -_- 22:11:34 <AngstyYuri> DL gets stuck at "128kb out of ??? kb" until paused and resumed 22:11:58 <AngstyYuri> Firefox user here 22:14:56 * AngstyYuri is an irritable, straight Russian male with severe alcohol intolerance 22:17:44 *** KouDy has quit IRC 22:29:39 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 22:34:35 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:53:23 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: ^ 23:03:06 *** Thedarkb2-T60 has joined #openttd 23:03:54 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:12:05 <peter1138> WFM 23:33:10 *** keoz has quit IRC 23:48:11 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 23:48:34 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 23:56:05 *** AngstyYuri has quit IRC