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00:00:16 <Samu> how come I don't get conflicts now? 00:00:22 <Samu> something wrong happened... 00:00:48 <glx> luck happened :) 00:01:39 <glx> but you should be able to move some stuff into the switch 00:02:07 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 00:02:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 00:02:13 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:02:43 <glx> more likely the conflict would be present if you had not removed the commit ;) 00:03:17 <glx> anyway even without conflict compilation will fail 00:05:33 *** pnda has quit IRC 00:05:45 <Samu> include_spectator no longer exists? 00:05:57 <glx> yes not needed 00:06:13 <m3henry> glx: Oh that one surprised me. I was expecting iter to be an iterator, not an offset xD 00:09:15 *** tokai has quit IRC 00:09:21 <glx> you can move the #ifdef after the if (!_networking) line and insert your code there 00:09:57 <glx> but don't forget to break at the end 00:10:38 <Samu> * @param include_spectator If true, a spectator option is included in the list. 00:10:43 <Samu> you left the comment 00:10:49 <glx> oups 00:11:26 <glx> and I'm the first to notice that in peter1138's PR 00:12:34 *** Tirili has quit IRC 00:13:02 <peter1138> Er... 00:13:41 <peter1138> That just means my review was bad :/ 00:14:32 <glx> happens 00:15:52 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0 00:16:39 <peter1138> This is bad, I'm considering using a file-scope static variable to remember the building flags used when building a house :/ 00:17:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #7241: Fix 1585eb1a3: forgot a comment https://git.io/fh5zi 00:20:46 <glx> like a local global variable ? 00:20:53 <glx> that doesn't sound good 00:21:19 <glx> but it's done like that in other places 00:23:27 <Samu> something's quite not right 00:23:32 *** m3henry has quit IRC 00:23:45 <Samu> even when nothing is highlighted, it still opens the global goals window or global story book window 00:24:11 <glx> it defaults to -1 yes 00:24:37 <glx> unless you are a company, it then defaults to the company 00:25:00 <Samu> but the black rectangle 00:25:05 <Samu> is not selecting it 00:25:35 <glx> same happens in network games 00:25:47 <glx> still it will open client list 00:28:17 <glx> hmm btw selection was probably already wrong for network games 00:30:19 <Samu> PopupMainToolbMenu(w, widget, list, _local_company == COMPANY_SPECTATOR ? widget == WID_TN_COMPANIES ? CTMN_CLIENT_LIST : CTMN_SPECTATOR : (int)_local_company); 00:30:21 <Samu> gonna try 00:31:33 <glx> result will be the same CTMN_SPECTATOR is -4 :) 00:32:04 <Samu> it works 00:33:37 <Samu> CTMN_SPECTATOR is being used for Global Story Book and Global Goals 00:33:41 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:35:29 <glx> oh right, something to add to the comment fix then 00:35:53 *** Flygon has quit IRC 00:36:41 <Samu> for my patch, there is no client list in single player, nothing is open anyway, lucky me 00:37:13 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:37:36 <Samu> CTMN_CLIENT_LIST is "selected" though 00:37:44 <Samu> not visible 00:41:14 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 00:43:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator https://git.io/fhSk4 00:46:08 <snail_UES_> what should we set as a steamer’s power in our trainsets? 00:46:11 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd 00:46:14 <drac_boy> hi there 00:46:22 <snail_UES_> “continuous” power or power at drawbar? 00:47:07 *** techmagus has quit IRC 00:47:41 * drac_boy wouldn't be sure sorry 00:48:48 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 00:49:14 <Samu> I think I have the endif in the wrong plac 00:49:16 <Samu> e 00:49:23 <glx> why did you add the _networking test ? 00:50:18 <glx> there's already !_networking test above it 00:50:52 <Samu> i dont know 00:51:00 <Samu> ifdef network confuses the heck of it 00:51:57 <glx> and yes #endif is wrong with your change 00:52:05 <glx> but it's a useless change 00:54:40 <Samu> ah. the break prevents the second part of the code from happening 00:54:42 <Samu> i see 00:56:26 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7241: Fix 1585eb1a3: forgot a comment https://git.io/fh5zi 00:57:11 <Pikka> snail_UES_, probably not. 00:57:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator https://git.io/fhSk4 00:57:39 <snail_UES_> Pikka: what do you mean? 00:57:56 <Pikka> probably not "continuous power" or power at drawbar. :) 00:59:01 <glx> still wrong Samu, the break must be afte #endif 00:59:26 <Pikka> probably whatever value gives a pleasing gameplay effect and slots it into whatever use you're aiming for 00:59:35 <Samu> it is after 01:00:45 <snail_UES_> sure, but that’s more about fine tuning 01:00:53 <snail_UES_> we should have a realistic base to start from 01:00:54 <glx> just in case, because _networking is false if ENABLE_NETWORK is not defined but it still safer to prevent fall through the next case 01:01:00 <glx> no you moved it 01:02:17 <Samu> the break was before 01:02:18 <Pikka> sure, but I'm not sure either of those values make sense as TTD "power", and those stats are often hard to find for steam engines anyway. So skip the research and just make it up, imo ;) 01:02:38 <glx> the diff says it was not 01:02:41 <Samu> erm... confused 01:04:20 <snail_UES_> yeah… well, you can estimate them by using boiler pressure, grate area, superheater surface... 01:04:27 <drac_boy> pikka not exactly that hard tho .. theres a well-reused formula on the forum for to determine a good tractive for steam :) 01:04:40 <snail_UES_> tractive effort is easier 01:05:05 <snail_UES_> there is a formula involving cylinder dimensions, boiler pressure, and driving wheel diameter 01:05:11 <snail_UES_> power is trickier to estimate 01:05:12 <Samu> so that means my company_gui.cpp is also wrong? 01:06:34 <drac_boy> mind you in usa they had this ratio system where if it added up to or close to 4.0 (or was it quoted at 3.0 .. ughh I'll have to find a source to recheck) it was balanced .. but well below or above that it became more difficult (either very slippery or too much boiler output than what can be used) 01:06:57 <Samu> I don't understand this whole ENABLE_NETWORK thing, i dont even know how to test it 01:07:42 <Samu> if there is no ENABLE_NETWORK 01:07:49 <Samu> _networking doesn't exist? 01:07:51 <drac_boy> even a reboilered 4-4-2 once (it was on the IC system) had a very low number to the point that it was often shunt into the rear of the yard and left to rot as very few dispatchers ever wanted to put it on rooster 01:08:01 <Samu> the variable 01:08:08 <glx> _networking is defined to 0 in this case 01:08:09 <drac_boy> it was just way too slippery even for a short passenger train 01:08:17 <Samu> ah 01:08:22 <glx> and your company_gui.cpp is correct 01:08:54 <snail_UES_> yep, but again, that’s tractive effort 01:09:24 <snail_UES_> power is proportional to the capacity of generating steam quickly and sending it to the cylinders without too much loss 01:09:27 <glx> you can mentally check the #ifdef #endif bloc like a comment block 01:09:46 <drac_boy> snail..if the boiler had a lower pressure it would had still been the same locomotive tho :) 01:09:53 <snail_UES_> problem is, you get data for continuous power for certain engines, power at drawbar for others (at different speeds) 01:09:56 <glx> #ifdef being /* and #endif is */ 01:10:17 <snail_UES_> yes, same locomotive, but weaker 01:11:11 <drac_boy> come to think about it I do have two grfs that I've unofficially modified because the author for some reason left some things broken by default (eg a railcar that barely could make 30kph with one wagon which didn't compare to the real life one) .. but what do I know :) 01:12:00 <glx> checking with the compiler implies to edit the project files, and you don't wan't to do that :) 01:12:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7158: Add: Client setting gui.start_spectator https://git.io/fhSk4 01:12:50 <snail_UES_> if you’re referring to my set :p that’s because that railcar was almost always used by itself 01:13:26 <drac_boy> I was talking about australia and europe but :P 01:13:38 <drac_boy> which of whats the trainset you're working on? 01:13:57 <snail_UES_> haha, well there is a railcar in the NG French set that kind of fits your description 01:14:26 *** Guest1089 has joined #openttd 01:14:29 <snail_UES_> designed in the twenties, so one of the very first attempts at building a feasible diesel engine (on narrow gauge) 01:14:56 <drac_boy> oh are you the Snail with an old fiat car as forum avatar? 01:14:58 <snail_UES_> its power follows the real-life model, so it will reach full speed if it travels alone 01:15:01 <snail_UES_> haha yes 01:15:18 <snail_UES_> the “snail” nick here was already taken… 01:15:23 <drac_boy> didn't think that was you till now .. I've looked over that thread twice anyway :) 01:15:26 <snail_UES_> so I added my location :D 01:16:14 <drac_boy> and btw although I don't know of any grf of this yet I do know a bit about the 'family' of railcars in australia tho (doesn't help I have one semi-technical book on one of them here too heh) 01:17:22 <drac_boy> various back n forth between oversea and homemade solutions .. not surprisingly the budd railcar was a bit less than impressive but still worked service for a while nevertheless .. and of course the well proven (repowering logics aside) Comet sets 01:18:19 <drac_boy> nothing too odd about actually seeing an old road-based railcar with one mini coach trailer standing (and being dwarfed) next to an australia xpt trainset heh :) 01:18:50 <drac_boy> (talk about stopping a highspeed train to transfer a few passengers from a slowpokey railcar) 01:19:32 <drac_boy> snail anyway don't mind me ;) 01:22:30 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick updated pull request #7084: Change: AI/GS Config GUI overhaul https://git.io/fh2dV 01:23:28 <drac_boy> snail mind if I ask roughly how many locomotives there are in that grf now? 01:24:02 <snail_UES_> in the NG set? 01:24:07 <drac_boy> yeah 01:24:46 <snail_UES_> about 30 locomotives (among steam, diesel and electric) 01:25:10 <snail_UES_> and about as many railcars, DMUs, and EMUs 01:25:39 <drac_boy> ah ok..sounds like I'll probably want to try it eventually (unless something else in the grf causes no-load error) .. but thats for another topic :) 01:25:45 <snail_UES_> but there is also a parameter to reduce all that crap to 10 locos and like 6 railcars :D 01:26:34 <snail_UES_> I’m working on the standard gauge now, still in planning phase 01:32:37 <drac_boy> standard? hope that included the french 131R (and maybe the army counterpart of it although I still dunno how much french people liked them tho) :) 01:33:18 <drac_boy> a little iffy that the army version was weaker but was the most utilized one of both post-war nevertheless .. oh well such is history 01:34:57 * drac_boy would also take the original tgv too :P 01:34:59 <drac_boy> hehe 01:37:21 <snail_UES_> you mean the 141R? 01:37:59 <drac_boy> oh didn't noticed I hit wrong numkey .. yes the 141 :) 01:37:59 <snail_UES_> one of the most widely steamers used in the country… and american built :p 01:38:14 * drac_boy always wondered about the french system of counting per axle instead of per tires 01:42:18 <drac_boy> snail but anyway don't forget to throw in the 6700/6800 (it can be a single loco grfwise tho) .. kinda a bit of universal non-electric loco later on 01:42:27 <drac_boy> ;) 01:49:03 <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/17kLPj8 01:51:06 <Samu> no crashes so far 01:51:17 <Samu> have been testing for hours 01:51:42 <Samu> sahred orders help 01:52:18 <Samu> or else I'd be running out of orders by now 01:53:27 <Samu> i just hope i dont run out of stations 01:54:52 <Samu> ah, it won't run out of stations any time soon 01:54:54 <snail_UES_> you mean the diesel BB6700? 01:55:06 <Samu> about 230 stations per ai 01:55:11 <snail_UES_> that will be in… but these days I’m too busy planning steamers :p 01:58:10 <Samu> testing autosaves 01:58:17 <Samu> let's see if i run out of save time 02:02:04 <Samu> cool 02:02:10 <Samu> still saved 02:05:19 <drac_boy> anyway snail have fun drinking more french wines ... I'm going off sorry :P 02:05:22 *** drac_boy has left #openttd 02:08:02 *** kiwitree has joined #openttd 02:09:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:15:45 <nnyby> is the cursor style in openttd configurable? I'm sort of used to OpenGFX's nice little yellow cursor.. but i'd like to use it with the original graphiics set. this big gray error is not as nice. 02:15:59 <nnyby> s/error/arrow 02:19:21 *** Samu has quit IRC 02:23:22 *** Progman has quit IRC 02:45:56 *** Guest1089 has quit IRC 03:26:48 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:30:09 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you can make a grf which just contains the arrow sprites, and use that in [newgrf-static] 04:21:57 *** glx has quit IRC 05:51:25 <peter1138> snail_UES_, not drawbar power. OpenTTD already does the calculation for power varying by speed. 05:51:55 <snail_UES_> peter1138: so ideally what should I provide? continuous power? 05:57:31 <peter1138> Well. I dunno :) 06:09:57 <snail_UES_> anyway… looks like (boiler pressure * grate area) and superheating surface give me an R-squared of >90% on about 50 observations I collected 06:10:14 <snail_UES_> so I’m going to estimate power using those things :) 06:12:50 <peter1138> Estimate and tweak is probably bset. 06:12:51 <peter1138> *best 06:36:04 <Eddi|zuHause> for steam engines i used a calculation i found in some old forum post by MB 07:05:45 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:07:32 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:21:02 <andythenorth> moin 07:24:19 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:24:59 <peter1138> When you realise you can rewrite bits to be more efficient... 07:25:09 <peter1138> First calculate the station catchment tiles. 07:25:21 <peter1138> Then Find industries and check if they are in the catchment. 07:25:29 <peter1138> Or. 07:26:08 <peter1138> Calculate station catchment tiles, and during this if you see an industry tile, you already know it's within the catchment. no need to loop all over again. 07:26:29 <andythenorth> happy days 07:27:08 <peter1138> Sounds like micro-optimization, I suppose. 07:27:22 <peter1138> Should end up making the code clearer, I hope. 07:30:28 *** synchris has joined #openttd 07:36:43 <andythenorth> I need a better idea for port-type industries https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9285/blah_blah_ports.png 07:36:59 <andythenorth> train stations are hard for them 07:37:28 <andythenorth> I need to add another 8-tile station to that port, for dropoff 07:38:52 <andythenorth> nowhere to put it, unless I bulldoze sea :P 07:43:58 <peter1138> andythenorth... 07:44:04 <peter1138> Remind me, what is a port-type industry? 07:45:00 <peter1138> Isn't a port basically ... station infrastructure, not an industry? 07:45:30 <peter1138> It has storage, I suppose. 07:46:10 <andythenorth> it's just a kind of port 07:46:26 <andythenorth> the main thing is that it builds on the coast 07:46:36 <andythenorth> with water round 3 sides, approximately 07:46:45 <andythenorth> so it's limited for stations 07:46:53 <peter1138> You've missed my point :) 07:47:27 <andythenorth> stations that accept / produce cargo? o_O 07:47:31 <andythenorth> directly? 07:47:38 <peter1138> Why though? 07:48:30 <peter1138> Why does a port accept/produce cargo? Is it a manufacturing plant? 07:48:37 <peter1138> I suppose you could say fish->food or something. 07:48:49 <andythenorth> well there is fish -> food 07:48:58 <andythenorth> but mostly they're just a gameplay short cut 07:49:34 <andythenorth> some cargos need a source or destination that's totally at odds with RL 07:49:56 <peter1138> Can you have an industry that accepts and produces the same stuff? 07:50:17 <andythenorth> probably works technically yes 07:50:26 <andythenorth> cargo prod cb can definitely do that 07:50:28 <peter1138> And then use it as a "hub", between different companies. 07:50:39 <peter1138> one company feeds it materials from the sea 07:50:49 <peter1138> another transports that inland... 07:51:03 <andythenorth> inter-company transfers 07:51:05 <peter1138> Effectively the industry is just storage. 07:51:18 <andythenorth> warehousing :P 07:51:19 <peter1138> Except with ratings 07:51:20 <peter1138> Yeah 07:51:21 <peter1138> Hmm! 07:52:22 <andythenorth> can nerf ratings 07:52:24 <andythenorth> in newgrf 07:52:35 <peter1138> o 08:12:36 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:12:47 <Wolf01> o/ 08:13:26 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:46:22 <peter1138> Hmm, now I see I possibly do too much :/ 08:46:27 <peter1138> I think, bike time. 08:48:13 *** Gabda has joined #openttd 08:48:32 <Gabda> hi 08:49:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7235: New non-rectangular sparse station catchment area https://git.io/fh5wk 08:54:04 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 08:54:05 <Gabda> wow, there are draft PRs now 08:56:42 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:02:17 <peter1138> Yup. 09:22:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:25:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:31:46 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 09:36:09 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 09:38:56 <Gabda> peter1138: finding stations (or other objects) around tiles might be possible within O(log(#stations)) with a k-d tree structure 09:39:34 <Gabda> the main problem I found with these k-d trees that they are hard to balance, and might be easier to rebuild on station add/remove 09:41:55 <Gabda> I checked the white paper Idpl linked to my PR, and this was a data structure that might match the needs in the game 09:59:44 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 10:05:18 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0 10:42:34 *** Taede has quit IRC 10:43:42 *** Taede has joined #openttd 11:07:07 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7238: Codechange: Remove assert when trying to intersect two tile areas and… https://git.io/fh5rn 11:11:35 *** Gabda has quit IRC 11:12:01 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 11:16:51 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fh5rE 11:18:06 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1130 11:18:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:19:15 *** Guest1130 has quit IRC 11:22:18 *** m3henry has quit IRC 11:42:25 *** J0anJosep has joined #openttd 11:54:34 *** DiscordIRC has joined #openttd 11:55:36 *** pnda has joined #openttd 12:31:05 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:32:47 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has joined #openttd 12:38:54 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 12:45:08 *** KenjiE20 has quit IRC 12:45:46 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 12:53:19 *** Smokebuddie has joined #openttd 12:53:35 <Smokebuddie> Good afternoon everybody 12:53:53 <J0anJosep> Hi 12:54:13 <Smokebuddie> I have a issue. When i set up a server, nobody finds my game? 12:54:29 <Smokebuddie> i set the portforwarding correct 12:54:37 <Smokebuddie> and its advertised 12:55:15 <nielsm> what's your ip address? 12:55:48 <Smokebuddie> ipv4 yes? 12:55:52 <nielsm> yes 12:56:21 <pnda> @Smokebuddie, my port forwarding is this: TCP/UDP on port 3979-3980/3979-3980 12:56:30 <Smokebuddie> 178.116.242.111 12:56:47 <Smokebuddie> 3978 & 3979 it says on the site 12:56:56 <pnda> 3979 and 3980 works for me 12:57:06 <Smokebuddie> gone try that setting on my router just a sec 12:57:25 <nielsm> yep, I can't connect 12:57:51 <nielsm> you've definitely made a mistake in your port forwarding 12:58:26 <pnda> Or maybe you've set the Protocoll wrong, I remember there being options for HTTP etc. 12:58:37 *** Flygon has quit IRC 12:59:19 <Smokebuddie> This is an example of port forwarding; in this case, UDP and TCP connections to port 3979 will need to be forwarded. 12:59:28 <Smokebuddie> this is from the OpenTTD wiki 12:59:44 <Smokebuddie> Make sure you've instructed the router to send the game data to the correct computer. If you want your server to be visible on the public server list (recommended), you will also need to forward UDP connections to port 3978. 12:59:48 <Smokebuddie> this too 12:59:55 <Smokebuddie> so i set my router 13:00:20 <Smokebuddie> 3979 TCP&UDP 3978 UDP 13:00:42 <pnda> my UDP is 3979 aswell, not 3978 13:02:10 <Smokebuddie> i used to be able to host but its just the last few weeks i can only join my friends. not the other way arround 13:02:47 <Smokebuddie> i've tried allot 13:03:13 <Smokebuddie> that's how i now end up here. in hope someone maybe knows what is blocking it 13:04:30 <Smokebuddie> @nielsm did you try to join? 13:04:37 <Smokebuddie> game name is Smokey 13:04:52 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/zi8V.png 13:05:01 <nielsm> is what I get when I try to add the server 13:05:12 <Smokebuddie> hmm 13:05:33 <nielsm> it can't reach on UDP port 3979 so it can't get game information 13:05:36 <nielsm> so it won't join 13:05:37 <Smokebuddie> its like i'm not sending any signal 13:06:00 <pnda> @Smokebuddie, try switching the UDP Port to 3979-3980 13:06:22 <Eddi|zuHause> what's your PC's internal ip? and have you set that in the router for port forwarding? 13:06:30 <Smokebuddie> @pnda i did it when you spoke of it 13:07:27 <Smokebuddie> so now i have 3979/3979 TCP&UDP, 3978/3978 UDP , 3979/3980 TCP&UDP 13:08:29 <planetmaker> you can check connections easily. If everything is setup correctly, it will show up in short time (1 minute or so) in http://servers.openttd.org/en/ 13:08:41 <Smokebuddie> @Eddi yes 13:08:54 <planetmaker> Under windows its own firewall is often the culprit after you setup the port forwarding correctly on your router 13:10:16 <planetmaker> openttd will tell in console that it fails to advertize, if you start it from console and start an MP session 13:11:17 <Smokebuddie> i tried removing OpenTTD from the firewall then set the ports , start the game, start a server, accepted the firewall message to give permission. still offline to my friend.... 13:11:34 <Smokebuddie> how do i start it from console? 13:11:50 <planetmaker> not a good advice... yet often when I have firewall issues with windows, I completely switch it off to see whether it is the issue 13:12:19 <Smokebuddie> ah ok 13:13:05 <planetmaker> (and often the programme then works... which then ends up with hours of swearing and weeding through MS firewall stuff) 13:17:31 *** Smokebuddie has quit IRC 13:22:56 <peter1138> I! Am! Back! 13:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> do you also speak with a weird austrian accent? 13:31:04 *** Thedarkb1-T60 has quit IRC 13:31:04 *** pnda has quit IRC 13:37:06 <peter1138> I could try. 13:40:06 <supermop_Home> yo 13:59:10 *** Extrems has quit IRC 14:00:20 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 14:01:50 <nielsm> okay I managed to get a network game to show up on the server list, finally 14:03:14 <nielsm> had to do three things: set up port fwd in my main router (the one I like to use), set up windows firewall, and set up port fwd in my ISP-supplied router (the one I only use because it also serves as cable modem and am therefore forced to have on) 14:04:03 <planetmaker> right... there can be a 3rd one, if you have two in your home chained. 14:04:35 <nielsm> "normal" users shouldn't have that 14:04:38 <nielsm> double NAT is hell 14:07:27 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder when the performance difference between std::set and std::unordered_set becomes noticable. 14:07:37 <nielsm> http://servers.openttd.org/en/server/125160 14:08:08 <nielsm> I'd expect unordered_set to be faster in almost all cases on modern hardware 14:08:58 <nielsm> (also the master server should be updated to handle the longer revision strings) 14:10:04 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 14:10:25 <peter1138> Hmm, I wonder... 14:11:03 <peter1138> unordered_set may not iterate in the same order depending on compiler/machine, right? 14:11:10 <nielsm> yeah 14:11:28 <peter1138> So I proably ought to use a set when iterating otherwise... desync. 14:11:30 <nielsm> I don't think the exact hash algorithm is defined 14:11:48 <nielsm> if the iteration order matters, then yes 14:12:08 <nielsm> question is if a straight vector isn't better regardless 14:14:20 <nielsm> a std::set is a tree structure of multiple small objects, it has pretty bad memory locality properties and can easily murder cpu caches, the constant factor losses in this empirically overcome all the asymptotic runtime advantages even at very large data sizes 14:14:33 <peter1138> Hmm. 14:15:13 <peter1138> Mostly the sets have very few items. 14:15:23 <nielsm> even more reason to use a vector :) 14:16:21 <peter1138> I guess I was using it to be lazy with checking if an item is alreay in it. 14:17:47 <peter1138> Yeah, with vector I have to manually test every time. 14:17:56 <nielsm> I want std::stupid_set that is just a vector of items in insertion order, membership is checked by linear search, removing items from the middle moves all following items down 14:18:41 <peter1138> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21167870/checking-if-an-item-is-already-in-a-vector 14:19:08 <peter1138> ^ that top answer using <algorithm> is a bit long-winded. 14:20:22 <nielsm> yeah that's the thing, "contains" is an annoying operation to express in stl on std::vector 14:22:16 *** Gabda has joined #openttd 14:33:04 * planetmaker senses small_vector's optimizations coming back 14:33:20 <peter1138> hahah 14:41:19 <peter1138> Hmm, actually if I'm iterating an unordered_set, and then inserting into a set, the order will be correct anyway. 14:49:38 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #7241: Fix 1585eb1a3: wrong default selection for goals and story book https://git.io/fh56a 14:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> remember yesterday when i had trouble getting out of a cave? 14:53:37 <Eddi|zuHause> today i have trouble getting back in 14:58:15 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:58:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:59:18 *** DiscordIRC1 has joined #openttd 14:59:36 *** DiscordIRC1 has quit IRC 15:01:04 *** Samu has joined #openttd 15:01:08 <peter1138> Oh. 15:01:38 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause: take a tractor, put a drill on the front, go get that astronium in the planet core 15:02:23 <glx> I should merge an approved PR, but I'm scared 15:02:39 <peter1138> Orders? 15:02:42 <Wolf01> I have troubles finding wolframite... I'm in Desolo and I only found a piece in a wreck 15:02:54 <peter1138> I think 7241 is pretty safe ;) 15:03:18 <glx> I know but we always get bug reports once merged 15:03:44 <Samu> hi 15:04:09 <peter1138> We need more regression tests ;) 15:04:57 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #7241: Fix 1585eb1a3: wrong default selection for goals and story book https://git.io/fh5zi 15:05:28 <glx> yeah a game script testing the GUI is probably possible 15:06:20 <peter1138> I'm not sure it would cover this one, though. 15:06:35 <peter1138> Hmm... 15:06:50 <glx> indeed this one needs a spectator 15:06:59 <glx> and GS is deity 15:06:59 <peter1138> When you refactor stuff and end up with a function that simply calls another function, but it's called from tons of places. 15:07:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: not quite there yet :p 15:08:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but this arid planet is extremely annoying.. every 3 step there's a hole in the ground 15:10:23 <Wolf01> Yeah 15:11:13 <Samu> my ai is failing 15:11:19 <Samu> groups are messed up yet 15:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and this aluminium deposit was a total troll, not even a single complete unit 15:14:13 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i just had an ammonium deposit like that, i just kept digging until i found something 15:14:15 <Gabda> Wolf, Eddi: what is this game you are talking about? 15:14:35 <Wolf01> Astroneer 15:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: just use the soil refinery 15:15:21 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: i've not gotten that far yet :p 15:15:32 <Wolf01> Ahah 15:16:01 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: what you need ammoinum for then? 15:16:12 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: you can get everything for the soil refinery on the starting planet 15:16:39 <Gabda> are you playing it solo, or multi coop? 15:17:15 <Wolf01> I'm forced to play solo until they activate my new internet line, but I hope to play some coop 15:17:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i play solo, so far 15:18:19 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure i would be any use in coop with the nonexistent performance :p 15:18:20 <Samu> when I clone a vehicle, do I also clone its group? 15:18:42 <Wolf01> Usually yes 15:19:03 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: because i'm still in the "pick up everything i see" stage 15:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like a digging tool mod that increases the distance where it detects deposits underground 15:20:52 <Wolf01> I'd like to be able to deactivate mods without moving them on the backpack :| 15:21:39 <Wolf01> Like you do with the working light or the generator if placed on the shoulder attachments 15:23:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really use generator 15:26:14 <Samu> damn it, why are groups failing, why do I always fail 15:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> in general, i kinda hate single-use items (energy cells, oxygen filters, organic fuel) 15:26:52 <Wolf01> I do only in the early game, as soon as I explore I find solar panels or wind turbines everywhere 15:27:29 <Wolf01> I use energy cells on the buggy, one grants you like 40 minutes of power 15:27:42 <Wolf01> And you can find them almost everywhere 15:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i've not run out of power with a wind turbine 15:28:37 <Samu> openttd group sorter is really weird 15:28:55 <Samu> groups numbered over 1,000 come first than a group numbered 1 15:29:01 <peter1138> It needs to maintain heirarchy. 15:29:02 <peter1138> Oh. 15:29:23 <peter1138> Do we ever sort numerically rather than alphabetically? 15:29:49 *** J0anJosep has quit IRC 15:30:19 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/ziKH.png well, first steps... now to make it actually resize and scroll 15:30:33 <Wolf01> I would like to reach Vesania to find some lithium, so I can start to flood the base with batteries... until I'll be able to craft some RTG 15:30:44 <Wolf01> But that's late game 15:31:19 *** pnda has joined #openttd 15:32:33 <Samu> I dont understand why i still have empty groups 15:32:41 <pnda> When I see "Graphics frame rate". Will there ever be a more optimized performance ingame? I mean, you don't need more than 60fps in a game like this, but if games would be more stable and load faster, when there are a lot of trains etc. running, that would be great, and would fit into that window aswell. 15:32:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM opened pull request #7242: Codechange: Improve performance of town name refresh on viewports https://git.io/fh5iB 15:32:48 <Samu> i thought I would delete them all 15:34:36 <pnda> Also, is that Frame rate window included in the 1.9.0-beta2 you can download of the site? 15:35:42 <Gabda> did any of you find that scrolling if lagging on really large maps with lots of towns, or is it just me, because I use extreme number of towns (30k)? 15:36:16 <Gabda> (I only use that map for testing, not playing) 15:37:52 <Gabda> pnda: I am working on small performance upgrades :) 15:38:43 <pnda> I hope so. I think it would really benefit servers, and slower systems would maybe be able to play on larger maps 15:39:28 <pnda> I feel like OpenTTD should get Multi Threaded Support, for those with really fast PCs (like me) 15:39:44 <Eddi|zuHause> pnda: the game itself runs at 30fps, but people have been requesting things like UI to use higher frame rate 15:39:47 <Gabda> well, performance upgrades usually goes with increased memory usage, so old systems might have problem with that as well 15:39:56 <Eddi|zuHause> or 33fps 15:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i never remember 15:40:28 <pnda> I mean, you really don't need more than 60fps in this type of game. 15:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> pnda: the people using 144fps monitors seem to disagree 15:41:21 <pnda> I have a 144Hz monitor myself 15:41:54 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:44:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fh5iX 15:47:53 <pnda> Small request: When loading a game/creating a map/saving a game, could it be changed so that OpenTTD uses all available std::threads? (I have not much clue of C++) 15:48:12 <nielsm> not possible 15:48:27 <nielsm> probably¨ 15:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> great. and now i glitched through the terrain into a totally different cave 15:50:31 <pnda> nielsm: It seems possible to me: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546336450849800193/546720048954474496/unknown.png 15:51:24 <nielsm> pnda yes multithreading is possible "in general", but the specific structure of the save/load code in OTTD makes it unlikely to be threadable without a gigantic project 15:53:37 <nielsm> actually what do you even mean by multithreading it? run it in the background while you keep playing the game? 15:53:57 <nielsm> or split the job up so multiple parts of the loading or saving are handled simultaneously? 15:54:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh5iF 15:56:14 <Samu> i'm getting helicopters in a group that was supposedly for send to depot only 15:56:15 <pnda> Well, with the 1.9.0-beta2 it seems that it does use all of my 6 Cores, though it only uses them ~40% (max 50%), which I think is kinda strange. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546336450849800193/546721347980492811/unknown.png 15:56:27 <Samu> also have planes 15:56:36 <Samu> something not working, I'm sad 15:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not really relevant 15:57:44 <nielsm> OTTD is single-threaded by design, the single-threaded-ness is pervasive through the entire game, you wouldn't be able to make the simulation itself multithreaded in a reasonable manner 15:58:21 <nielsm> the reason is that the simulation needs to be predictable, and splitting it up across threads makes it unpredictable 15:58:26 <Eddi|zuHause> that just means it's shuffling around the maxed out thread between different CPUs, which is actually a terrible idea 15:58:55 <LordAro> (this is quite common amongst a lot of games - not everything is parallelisable) 15:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> because that inhibits processor features like overclocking a single core while the others are idle 15:59:51 <Samu> i wanted AIs to multithread 15:59:57 <nielsm> there are some parts of OTTD that run on separate threads, for example graphics output may be separate depending on driver, music and sound may run in a thread, and the link graph updates (relates to cargodist) runs on a separate thread 16:00:08 <pnda> You can overclock a single processor core like you want, that's not dependant on how a program is programmed to work 16:00:11 <Samu> 1 thread per AI 16:00:34 <Samu> use the queue command 16:00:35 <pnda> uhhh...My CPU only has 6 Threads, and the average CPU has 4 Threads...Over what does the game support, 16 AIs? 16:01:01 <nielsm> the cargodist link graph update is the only part of game logic that runs in a thread, and that's only possible by letting it have a deadline measured in simulated game ticks, and only integrating the thread result in game logic after the deadline has passed regardless of whether the thread finished sooner 16:01:12 <Samu> whichever AI completes the job first, gets in the queue first 16:01:18 <dwfreed> pnda: CPUs are capable of running more than 1 thread at a time 16:01:36 <dwfreed> (not really at a time, but that's what task switching takes care of) 16:01:47 <pnda> dwfreed you mean SMT/HT? 16:01:51 <dwfreed> no 16:01:57 <LordAro> pnda: careful, you're at risk of revealing a lack of knowledge about multithreading :) 16:02:05 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] GabdaZM commented on pull request #7120: Codechange: Improve performance of closest town lookups with cache https://git.io/fh5ix 16:02:12 <dwfreed> I mean the fact that CPUs aren't limited to running 1 process forever 16:02:12 <pnda> what do you mean by that 16:02:25 <milek7> for saving, maybe it is possible to fork() and finish saving in second process 16:02:34 <dwfreed> otherwise single-core single-thread processors would never have done much of anything useful 16:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> <pnda> uhhh...My CPU only has 6 Threads, and the average CPU has 4 Threads...Over what does the game support, 16 AIs? <-- the AI threads are only threads to have local data access, they can't actually run in parallel 16:03:07 <LordAro> pnda: worrying about having more threads than CPUs is very close to nonsense 16:03:11 <nielsm> uh can anyone help me with some window system stuff? the "fill" parameter in UpdateWidgetSize, what does that mean, "fill step of the widget" means nothing to me 16:03:52 <glx> saving is already threaded 16:03:55 <pnda> LordAro: "having more threads than CPUs", what? 16:04:07 <glx> well the writing to disk part is threaded 16:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> <milek7> for saving, maybe it is possible to fork() and finish saving in second process <-- it already does that for compressing/writing to disk 16:05:10 <Samu> there can be 15 AIs 16:05:24 <glx> pnda: one CPU can have run many threads, it's called multitasking 16:06:11 <Eddi|zuHause> <pnda> uhhh...My CPU only has 6 Threads, and the average CPU has 4 Threads...Over what does the game support, 16 AIs? <-- this is total nonsense, your CPU already runs hundreds of threads before you even get to starting the game 16:06:28 <pnda> glx: They get switched arround constantly, they aren't actually running at the same time exactly. 16:06:44 <glx> of course 16:06:44 <dwfreed> no shit 16:06:50 <dwfreed> that's what we've been saying :P 16:06:54 <pnda> No really. 16:07:15 <Samu> my idea was... make all AIs execute their code simultaneously, on different threads and once they need to queue commands, whichever comes first, gets it queued first 16:07:32 <Samu> then openttd runs the queue 16:07:37 <pnda> I never doubted that CPUs can just do whatever they want, and do thousands of stuff at exactly the same time. 16:07:42 <glx> I think on windows there is at almost 10 threads for openttd only 16:08:37 <dwfreed> I have threading enabled in nginx on this system; 1 master process, 2 worker process, each worker process has another 32 threads for i/o work 16:09:03 <dwfreed> s/process, e/processes, e/ 16:11:01 <Samu> i just wonder if it's doable 16:11:05 <pnda> I think we were talking about different threads. But I am completely confused just now 16:11:17 <Samu> i mean, commands are already sent to a queue 16:11:20 <nielsm> pnda everyone is talking about OS threads 16:11:32 <nielsm> not (virtual or real) cpu cores 16:11:44 <pnda> yeah, I meant real cores 16:12:30 <Samu> this game is real time, so it needs to be sync'ed 16:12:46 <Samu> that's usually the task of 1 thread 16:12:50 <nielsm> Samu that's the wrong explanation 16:12:57 <Samu> ok i failagain 16:14:00 <nielsm> the simulation logic is single-threaded because it needs to reproduce exact results when a tick is simulated from the same starting point, that's the basis for multiplayer working at all 16:14:12 <glx> that's also why we don't use floats 16:14:31 <glx> because roundings can differ depending on the used CPU 16:14:45 <dwfreed> yay float bugs 16:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not bugs... 16:15:10 <nielsm> multithreading would either mean unpredictable results, or that everything needs to synchronize all the time losing any benefit made from parallelism 16:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's undefined behaviour 16:15:49 <dwfreed> nielsm: there's still a benefit to parallelism if you have multiple simulations that need to be made every tick (eg multiple AIs) 16:15:57 <pnda> So why did my installation of OpenTTD use all 6 physical cores of mine while loading, and not just one? 16:16:33 <pnda> Probably AIs could really benefit of multiple simultaneous processes 16:16:33 <dwfreed> time(A) + time(B) becomes max(time(A), time(B)), where time(X) is the time it takes for X simulation to run 16:16:50 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 16:16:51 <nielsm> for example x87 floating point registers are 80 bit extended precision, floating point code compiled for that can have more internal precision causing it to produce different results to the same code compiled for an ARM architecture which works with 64 bit double precision all the way 16:17:29 <pnda> You lost me there 16:17:36 <glx> because openttd uses many threads, even if the game core is single threaded 16:18:42 <Samu> pentium bug 16:18:53 <pnda> And why does, even when creating a new 4kx4k map, my CPU not go over 35% usage? 16:18:56 <glx> when pausing during the starting newgrf scan I have 12 threads 16:19:17 <nielsm> uint fill_y; ///< Vertical fill stepsize (from initial size, \c 0 means not resizable). 16:19:21 <nielsm> what is fill? 16:19:22 <dwfreed> pnda: 35% out of 100% or 35% out of (numThreads * 100)% ? 16:19:35 *** gelignite has quit IRC 16:19:49 <pnda> numThreads, OS threads or the real threads of my CPU? 16:20:05 <dwfreed> threads of the CPU, including SMT threads if available 16:20:06 <glx> nielsm: empty widget space I think 16:20:15 <pnda> Uhh, that would be 210 then 16:20:52 <dwfreed> I'm asking what the scale of the 35% is 16:20:54 <milek7> about floats, ieee754 is well-defined, right? and intermediate precision could be set with compiler flags 16:21:14 <dwfreed> milek7: CPU bugs, see Samu's mention of the Pentium bug 16:21:21 <nielsm> glx, any suggestion to a file I could read to help understanding the resizing logic? 16:21:28 <pnda> Uhh... It's 35% over all cores, idk what you mean 16:22:03 <dwfreed> milek7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug 16:22:20 <milek7> i hope nobody uses old pentium now ;p 16:22:27 <dwfreed> pnda: so 35% out of a possible 600%, not 35% out of a possible 100% 16:22:39 <pnda> Uhm, I guess 16:23:01 <dwfreed> because that is an important distinction 16:23:29 <dwfreed> milek7: the point is that that bug is still a possibility today 16:23:56 <LordAro> with 6 cores, 35% of 600% is an issue, 35% of 100% is not 16:24:25 <milek7> hm. https://randomascii.wordpress.com/2013/07/16/floating-point-determinism/ 16:24:33 <milek7> seems complicated 16:24:47 <LordAro> milek7: also, integer maths is generally much faster and easier to reason abouty 16:24:50 <LordAro> -y 16:25:10 <LordAro> (35% (of 100%) is approximately 1/3, so 2 cores at 100%) 16:26:48 <pnda> So why is that bad, 35% out of 600% 16:27:39 <dwfreed> because there shouldn't be any reason it's not at at least 100% out of 600%, especially if it is a long running process 16:27:48 <pnda> And over Task Manager, it looked like none of the cores itself were over 40% 16:28:17 <LordAro> task manager isn't that great of a measuring tool 16:28:39 <pnda> It's good enough 16:28:54 <dwfreed> yeah, I wish the graph per thread on task manager was vertically arranged, not horizontally 16:29:21 *** Gabda has quit IRC 16:29:29 <dwfreed> also, in the process list on Windows 7 Task Manager, percentages are out of 100%; no idea if that holds for newer Windows versions 16:29:47 <glx> nielsm: the comment may be wrong if compared to NWidgetResizeBase::SetFill() widget.cpp:839 16:29:48 <pnda> Yeah, that seems to still be the case 16:30:11 <dwfreed> so your 35% is actually 210% then :P 16:30:33 <pnda> *This is probably irrelevant, but my GPU doesn't even hit 30%* 16:30:49 <dwfreed> which is probably fine, depending on how many threads are running map generation 16:31:05 <pnda> Here you can see it visualized, each window is one core: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/546336450849800193/546721347980492811/unknown.png 16:31:38 <dwfreed> pnda: not surprising, openttd is not exactly the definition of a graphically intensive game 16:31:45 <Samu> my cpu is running 1617 threads atm 16:32:21 <Samu> https://imgur.com/UU4BiZg 16:32:26 <planetmaker> indeed. cpu... is hardly used by OpenTTD. 16:33:09 <LordAro> planetmaker: you meant gpu, right? 16:33:23 <planetmaker> indeed! 16:33:57 <pnda> And a 8150 can do 3.6 million threads per second 16:34:09 <LordAro> ...no 16:34:17 <glx> operations, no threads 16:34:21 <planetmaker> ops != threads 16:34:21 <pnda> Wwait I just lost it 16:35:17 <pnda> yeah just noticed myself 16:35:21 <pnda> I should sleep more.... 16:35:26 <Samu> back to where I was... my AI is bugged 16:35:36 <Samu> i fail at groups,yada yada 16:35:47 <Samu> not uploading v8 yet 16:36:18 <glx> using master (ie 1.9) api or compat one ? 16:36:31 <Samu> still running 1.4 16:40:36 <glx> just checked the code, cloned vehicles go in the same group 16:42:17 <Samu> my road vehicles groups look fine 16:42:26 <Samu> but let me recheck, wanna make sure 16:42:48 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 16:42:51 <glx> be sure to put a vehicle in a group before starting to clone it 16:42:57 <Samu> nop 16:43:02 <Samu> i have emtpy groups 16:43:07 <Samu> it's not fine either 16:43:47 <glx> do you ever put vehicles in these groups after you created them ? 16:44:36 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:45:12 <Samu> yes, i believe so 16:45:15 <glx> new (non cloned) vehicles don't go in groups when built, you have to move them 16:46:27 <Samu> let me upload my stuff for u to see 16:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <pnda> And over Task Manager, it looked like none of the cores itself were over 40% <-- because windows is stupid and goes "oh look, CPU 1 is at 100% while the other does nothing, let's move this big thread to CPU 2", and a fraction of a second later goes "oh look, CPU 2 is at 100% while the other does nothing, let's move this big thread to CPU 3" 16:46:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and so on 16:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you average that out over a second or so, each CPU is at 25% (in case of 4 CPUs and one big thread running at 100% of one CPU) 16:48:23 <planetmaker> such behaviour sounds like a good plan for cpu energy management ;) 16:48:41 <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/LuDiAI-AfterFix wait this is v7 16:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause> if by "good" you mean "ruining" :p 16:49:50 <Samu> ok, uploaded v8 16:49:55 <planetmaker> "good" :) 16:50:24 <Samu> weird spacing 16:50:38 <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/LuDiAI-AfterFix/blob/master/Route.nut this is where I deal with road vehicles 16:50:51 <Samu> I don't understand that spacing 16:50:53 <Samu> identing 16:51:01 <Samu> i see it fine on notepad++ 16:51:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it means you're constantly switching power states of each CPU, instead of being able to use the boost features of a single cpu 16:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and you're having context switches and cache losses all over the place 16:51:22 <dwfreed> Samu: spaces vs tabs 16:51:33 <planetmaker> ^^ 16:51:36 <dwfreed> Samu: line 12 is 4 spaces, line 13 is 1 tab 16:51:46 <glx> notepad++ has a nice feature for that 16:52:45 <pnda> I like 4 spaces = 1 tab the most, default in my text editor 16:52:46 <nielsm> https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/api/Avrt/nf-avrt-avsetmmthreadcharacteristicsa 16:52:53 <glx> in edit menu, theres a "spaces treatments" or something like that 16:52:57 <nielsm> hmm I wonder if that makes a difference for anything? 16:53:04 <nielsm> one of the thread tasks you can indicate is Games 16:53:09 <Samu> line 185 is where i make vehicles 16:53:15 <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/LuDiAI-AfterFix/blob/master/Route.nut#L185 16:53:15 <glx> use the latest option to transform spaces in tabs 16:54:26 <glx> please convert spaces to tabs in your files and commit that 16:54:32 <glx> will be easier to read 16:54:34 <Samu> ok 16:55:07 <LordAro> (or tabs to spaces, but consistency is better) 16:56:07 <glx> tabs is better, everyone can then use his prefered tab size 16:56:59 <LordAro> i don't disagree, but the programming world has generally chosen spaces 16:57:46 <glx> oh another useful notepad++ option in the same sub menu is "remove spaces at end of lines" 16:58:37 <Samu> pushed 16:58:50 <Samu> oops 16:59:43 <glx> but this one is less important when reading ;) 17:00:08 <Samu> trim trailing space? 17:00:20 <glx> yes 17:01:56 <Samu> done 17:01:58 <Wolf01> Hmmm, extenders seem to not work :/ 17:02:00 <Samu> upushed 17:02:44 <Samu> wow looks better, I didn't know there was this kind of magic in notepad 17:02:57 <Wolf01> Oh, ok, they changed completely how extenders are placed 17:03:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't tried extenders... i found some, but i have no real idea why to use them 17:04:29 <glx> seems you correctly move vehicle to m_group once built 17:07:02 <glx> so the problem maybe m_group itself 17:09:40 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:10:04 *** DiscordIRC has quit IRC 17:14:45 <Samu> must identify the problem yet 17:14:54 <Samu> I'm not so sure why I have empty groups 17:15:43 <Samu> m_group should be deleted if the route is empty 17:15:51 <Samu> no vehicles 17:15:55 <Samu> no stations, no depots 17:16:00 <Samu> cleaning up the route 17:17:11 *** DiscordIRC has joined #openttd 17:19:10 <glx> but created groups never use by vehicles are not removed it seems as your code only use vehicle list 17:20:14 <Samu> oh im not saving m_group :( 17:20:17 <Samu> dumb 17:20:35 <Samu> no wonder i was seeing weird groups after loading 17:22:34 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7227: Replace Window::scrolling_scrollbar with Window::active_widget https://git.io/fh5Xz 17:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i also need an only-add and only-remove inhibitor 17:25:41 <Samu> function GroupVehicles() { this thing needs either removal, or a rework 17:26:41 <Wolf01> You can couple the inhibitor with the analyzer to only touch a particular colour of terrain 17:28:25 <Wolf01> I also found the packager really usefull, it helps a lot when you are far away and find something bigger which still function, or research items 17:28:38 <Samu> I don't need share orders to be done in that part 17:28:46 <Samu> i think it is safe to remove 17:36:59 <Wolf01> So, it's always a pleasure to fall with the entire train in a crater... 17:38:49 <Samu> as for the aircraft groups 17:38:53 <Samu> i'm getting 17:39:10 <Samu> vehicles in the send_to_depot group[0] 17:39:16 <Samu> that are not heading to depots 17:39:41 <Samu> it is being used as a group for several air routes 17:39:47 <Samu> i don't want that 17:39:57 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:40:11 <Samu> where did I fail 17:40:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] M3Henry updated pull request #7165: [core] Implement SmallVector using std::vector https://git.io/fhSz0 17:40:51 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:41:05 <m3henry> The low hanging fruit is gone 17:43:49 <andythenorth> yeah but yo 17:43:50 <andythenorth> also 17:43:51 <andythenorth> and hi 17:43:55 <Wolf01> o/ 17:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> these caves in the arid planet are surely impressive, but i have no clue how to get up or down there 17:45:35 <Wolf01> Just dig and make ramps 17:45:37 <Eddi|zuHause> m3henry: "wiht" 17:46:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: that would make sense if i'm near the wall of the cave, but looks like i'm more like on the roof of the cave 17:46:29 <Wolf01> Also consider to mod the terrain tool with a better drill mod 17:46:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i have the 1st drill mod 17:47:28 <Wolf01> Oh, I make ramps everywhere, you can see my ramps in the middle of a big cavern reaching for the ceiling 17:47:48 <Wolf01> Use ctrl to keep the same inclination and go on :P 17:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> whenever i try that, i tend to fall off the sides to my death 17:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> because it goes slipping 17:48:19 <Wolf01> Make them larger :P 17:48:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i already got the wide mod :p 17:49:04 <Wolf01> No, really larger, you can paint them how you want 17:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have 12 canisters with me :p 17:49:50 <Wolf01> Maybe it's because I have like 130 hours on it, but I'm not dying of falling damage since.. a lot of time 17:51:54 <Eddi|zuHause> on this arid planet i drop every 3 steps 17:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> usually i reload because i can't get to the body to retrieve things 17:53:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fhSMz 17:54:02 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 17:55:26 <m3henry> Eddi: :v 17:56:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fhSMz 17:59:16 *** qwebirc49917 has joined #openttd 18:02:12 <Samu> so, when will locks become 1-tile wide only? :p 18:06:41 <Samu> how to detect wether a vehicle is already heading to a depot? 18:06:48 <Samu> and stopping in it 18:07:16 <Samu> is there a way that doesn't involve groups, or lists 18:07:20 <Samu> ? 18:07:24 <nielsm> get current order and check for OF_STOP_IN_DEPOT flag? 18:08:05 <nielsm> or well I guess you can't check the current order? only orders on the schedule? 18:09:04 <Samu> that's what I wonder 18:09:10 <Samu> is there a way? 18:09:50 <Samu> all this trouble is because I don't know of a better way 18:10:10 <nielsm> that is the way you would do it outside squirrel 18:13:44 <Samu> group wasn't deleted :( 18:14:29 <Samu> if (AIGroup.IsValidGroup(m_group)) { 18:14:29 <Samu> AIGroup.DeleteGroup(m_group); 18:14:29 <Samu> } 18:14:37 <Samu> but it wasn't deleted 18:14:37 <Samu> why 18:18:45 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:19:15 <peter1138> Hmm. 18:20:16 <peter1138> Okay, found my bug. A simple negated test :p 18:21:05 <peter1138> Station Wrunnpool Pit removed from town Wrunnpool 18:21:06 <peter1138> Town at 43x12 (Wrunnpool) lost 1 stations 18:21:08 <peter1138> Yay :D 18:21:25 <Samu> are u creating a ai? 18:21:37 <peter1138> Just saw Alita: Battle Angel. It's pretty... Hmm... yeah, no. 18:21:47 <peter1138> Samu, no, I'm working on catchment area stuff. 18:22:10 <LordAro> peter1138: it looked rather dubious from the trailer 18:22:25 <peter1138> It is. 18:23:12 * peter1138 checks the scrollback. Persistence, as it were. 18:24:53 <peter1138> Ok, I can't be arsed with that. 18:25:44 <peter1138> Turns out my test was negated so it removed all the stations, hehe. 18:26:23 <Wolf01> <peter1138> Just saw Alita: Battle Angel. It's pretty... Hmm... yeah, no. <- I could have seen it yesterday, but it didn't catch me 18:27:02 <peter1138> Hmm 18:27:08 <peter1138> Whatever happened to bridge length limits? 18:27:22 *** qwebirc49917 has quit IRC 18:27:34 <Samu> max length 64 i think 18:27:37 <Samu> or is it 4096? 18:27:42 <peter1138> Oh there are some. 18:27:48 <peter1138> I thought the wooden bridge has a short limit too 18:27:51 <nielsm> hm is there a better way to detect if any AI or GS are active at all than checking each company? 18:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> no, wooden was always somewhat infinite 18:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: wasn't there a command for that? 18:30:54 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: the context is framerate measuring and whether to do the total sum of all scripts 18:31:55 <glx> I don't think there's another way 18:32:07 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:32:29 <glx> as AI instance is local to the company 18:34:49 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 18:35:07 <glx> but AI:GameLoop seems to be a good place to plug your stuff 18:36:10 <nielsm> I already am doing that for individual script measurements 18:36:12 <peter1138> Problem with using caches is keeping them correct :/ 18:36:34 <nielsm> the issue is making a sum of everything, and making sure that sum goes away when all scripts also go away 18:37:21 <peter1138> And basically edge cases, like a town shrinking. Is that still a thing... 18:37:52 <nielsm> players bombing it? 18:38:04 <peter1138> Quite. 18:38:39 <glx> removing the tile under the town name ? 18:39:15 <peter1138> Ooh, I should try that. 18:46:56 <Samu> i found the problem! 18:46:58 <Samu> removeIfUnserviced() 18:47:05 <Samu> this thing isn't removing correctly 18:47:42 <Samu> must reinvent 18:48:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN commented on pull request #7227: Replace Window::scrolling_scrollbar with Window::active_widget https://git.io/fh5MB 18:48:30 <Samu> gonna make use of the removal scheduller 18:48:42 <peter1138> Pikka, was https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7231 ever useful? 18:49:54 <Pikka> not sure. It might have had something to do with drawing "detailed" junctions 18:50:39 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #7220: Change: Increase maximum number of orders from 64000 to ~16.7m. https://git.io/fh5Mz 18:51:07 <peter1138> Yes, the idea is you have to draw every combination instead the game combining bits. 18:51:12 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fhSMz 18:51:16 <peter1138> But the commit date is 2013... 18:51:24 <peter1138> I don't think anyone tested it :D 18:51:38 <peter1138> I can't remember who wanted, but I suspect it was based on that that you mentioned. 18:52:08 <peter1138> 6 years ago... Maybe I should check IRC logs :D 18:53:03 <peter1138> https://irclogs.thegrebs.com/openttd/2013/01/30 18:53:06 <peter1138> Not even kidding. 18:53:29 <peter1138> Look at me being all sarky with Eddi|zuHause still :D 18:53:32 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7178: Add AI and GS to framerate window https://git.io/fh5Mr 18:53:51 <peter1138> 13:01 <@peter1138> pikka, make a test grf! 18:53:53 <peter1138> ^ haha 18:54:45 <Pikka> I guess I got over the idea :P 18:54:59 <peter1138> It's a bit random, even then. 18:55:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably said something about how that's not exactly what i wanted :p 18:56:14 <peter1138> You requested a new var. 18:56:28 <peter1138> peter1138: plus a 40+ variable that gives you x%2 + y%2 << 1 so you can vary the 3rd rail for left/right side and stuff 18:56:38 <peter1138> So... 18:57:00 <Eddi|zuHause> oh yeah, that too :p 18:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "if we're gonna add railtype vars, might as well add all of them :p" 18:57:48 <peter1138> Yeah... it wasn't a railtype var ;) 19:05:40 <Samu> glx, just solved the road vehicle groups being empty! 19:06:17 <Samu> now, aircraft groups :| 19:06:23 <Samu> different kind of problem 19:07:25 <peter1138> Hmm, AIs use distant join? 19:08:11 <peter1138> Guess they do. Neat. 19:09:02 <Samu> my ai does 19:09:07 <Samu> it abuses to win 19:09:28 <Samu> well, it was in the original LuDiAI 19:09:32 <Samu> i kept i 19:09:32 <Samu> t 19:10:13 <peter1138> Yeah, nice. 19:10:25 <peter1138> Which one is yours again? 19:12:05 <peter1138> Oh, LuDiAI crashes :/ 19:12:23 <peter1138> Oh, no, it was the gamescript. Oops? 19:12:29 <peter1138> Ah citybuilder. 19:14:12 <Samu> AIAI also does it, but it misuses it 19:14:22 <Samu> really weird to look at 19:14:49 <peter1138> Misuses? 19:15:05 <Samu> yes, the distant join stations aren't connected to roads 19:15:09 <peter1138> o 19:15:11 <Samu> they're just there 19:15:24 <Samu> unconnected, bad for the looks 19:16:54 <Samu> mine is LuDiAI Afterfix 19:17:01 <Samu> I missed that question 19:17:04 <peter1138> Ah okay, I was using that one :-) 19:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, my tractor fell through the perfectly flat terrain 19:26:55 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/towncatchment.png 19:27:14 <peter1138> Hmm, so that's the catchment area of all stations that cover that town. 19:31:25 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 19:34:05 <peter1138> Funny though, attaching a station to a large airport doesn't really extend the catchment area at all. 19:34:08 <peter1138> Maybe it should :p 19:39:10 <Samu> oh boy, looking at my aircraft group management is scary 19:39:17 <Samu> groups suddenly poof and reappear 19:40:35 <Samu> I ned to think, what could possibly cause an aircraft to be in the wrong group 19:41:21 <Samu> i had aircraft in send_to_depot[0] group that weren't heading to depot 19:41:53 <Samu> the group was being misused for several air routes 19:42:19 <Samu> clone vehicle 19:42:22 <Samu> must be that 19:43:19 <Samu> too bad I can't make it happen when I want 19:43:24 <Samu> can't reproduce 19:51:42 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/towncatchment2.png 19:51:46 <peter1138> Kinda useful visualation. 19:51:56 <peter1138> Well, more useful if it only showed your own stations. 19:52:58 <peter1138> +iz 20:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to that tile highlighting patch? 20:00:22 *** DiscordIRC has quit IRC 20:01:42 *** DiscordIRC has joined #openttd 20:05:43 <Samu> https://github.com/SamuXarick/LuDiAI-AfterFix funny how things get displayed on github 20:05:49 <Samu> it always wants a commit message... 20:07:34 <Samu> oops 20:08:09 <Samu> fixed a typo 20:10:48 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7078 tile highlighting patch 20:10:50 <Samu> ? 20:11:35 <peter1138> Just debugging for my non-rectangular catchment 20:16:36 *** Pikka has quit IRC 20:16:48 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7227: Replace Window::scrolling_scrollbar with Window::active_widget https://git.io/fh5Dx 20:24:04 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 20:25:01 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:26:49 *** pnda has quit IRC 20:28:23 <peter1138> LordAro, "tiny" bit of tiffin :o 20:28:37 <LordAro> peter1138: yes please 20:28:57 <LordAro> i just had a not-insignificant slice of victoria sponge 20:31:10 *** DiscordIRC has quit IRC 20:33:01 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:36:37 <peter1138> LordAro, I just demolished https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt_xwThn1hS/ 20:37:29 <LordAro> oooh 20:37:36 <LordAro> very much yes 20:38:36 <peter1138> There's a certain theme to my instagram :p 20:40:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:41:12 <peter1138> So, newgrf presets on bananas? :p 20:41:27 <Samu> speaking of bananas 20:42:00 <Samu> https://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/edit/3573 20:42:10 <Samu> can't make it unavailable for 1.9.0 20:42:21 <peter1138> I don't think that link will work for anyone else. 20:42:56 <Samu> maximum openttd version is 1.6.0, I need to input 1.8.0 20:43:04 <glx> 1.9.0 doesn't exist yet 20:43:22 <peter1138> I think it doesn't contain the last few releases either. 20:43:25 <Samu> it exist beta 20:43:51 <peter1138> I'm guessing based on Samu's 'description' though. 20:44:26 <peter1138> Samu, if OpenTTD versions are missing from bananas, what you could do is actually report a bug against it. 20:44:40 <Samu> i dont know how to report banana bug 20:45:05 <peter1138> It doesn't seem to be on github, so you could try the website project. 20:45:13 <peter1138> https://github.com/OpenTTD/website/issues 20:45:18 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:45:21 <peter1138> Just make it clear you are talking about banans, 20:45:23 <peter1138> +a 20:45:30 <Samu> https://imgur.com/gmiQSai 20:45:31 <peter1138> And make it clear what the problem is, but that's normal. 20:45:50 <peter1138> Yes, you could attach that picture to your bug report, that would be useful. 20:46:17 <glx> bananas is still on the old infrastructure anyway 20:46:44 <glx> and I think there were discussion about rewriting it 20:47:48 <glx> bananas issues can go in openttd issues 20:49:13 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] SamuXarick opened issue #60: Can't select 1.8.0 as maximum openttd version https://git.io/fh5y4 20:49:26 <glx> ha yes there's https://github.com/frosch123/bananas2 20:51:10 <Samu> too late 20:55:15 <Samu> giving 2 more days for my AI testings 20:59:46 <peter1138> And dessert is... sliced kiwi, sliced half apple, and 1/4 tub of creme fraiche 21:00:37 <peter1138> Might have room for beese and chiscuits. 21:00:39 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:07:08 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 21:07:13 <supermop_Home_> YO 21:08:41 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:12:29 *** synchris has quit IRC 21:13:01 <andythenorth> I won! 21:13:04 <andythenorth> yay me 21:13:05 <peter1138> What though? 21:13:12 <andythenorth> Silicon Valley GS 21:17:25 <andythenorth> also bed maybe 21:17:37 <peter1138> No, too early. 21:21:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:33:38 *** kiwitree has quit IRC 21:33:44 <peter1138> nielsm, hmm, "captured_widget" maybe 21:50:51 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 22:10:11 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 22:17:24 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 22:22:52 *** Flygon has quit IRC 22:32:42 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 22:38:40 *** m3henry has quit IRC 22:44:51 <peter1138> Hmm 22:54:45 <peter1138> Mmm, beese and chiscuits. 23:04:41 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:26:00 <peter1138> Hmm, what happened? So quiet :( 23:26:06 <peter1138> Oh yeah, of course, IRC is dead. 23:26:44 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:27:37 <milek7> i guess most people went to sleep 23:27:49 <peter1138> Weak. 23:41:26 <peter1138> (since C++20) 23:41:29 <peter1138> Damn, can't use that :( 23:47:36 <supermop_Home> IM DESIGNING A DONUT KIOSK 23:47:45 <peter1138> Oo 23:47:51 <supermop_Home> in autocad 23:47:55 <supermop_Home> so caps 23:48:17 <supermop_Home> rather I designed it, now just annotating some elevations 23:48:32 <supermop_Home> while it renders in rhino in the background 23:59:05 <supermop_Home> hmmm 23:59:32 <supermop_Home> 90 minutes into this rendering I see that the espresso machine does not have it's material applied