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01:19:48 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i definitely can't play astroneer with this... where i previously got 40FPS on the titlescreen, i can't even get 1FPS 01:41:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (no idea why, shouldn't be that much of a difference between the two cards) 02:26:59 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas opened issue #7672: Crash when opening Game Options https://git.io/fjyKl 02:32:37 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ 02:47:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] MingweiSamuel commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyKg 02:57:16 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:58:39 *** glx has quit IRC 03:00:39 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:27:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:18:09 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:39:48 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 06:01:43 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:34:31 *** acklen has joined #openttd 06:45:53 *** acklen has quit IRC 06:49:43 *** acklen has joined #openttd 06:56:55 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 06:57:58 *** acklen has quit IRC 07:18:45 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:20:20 *** acklen has joined #openttd 07:33:48 *** acklen has quit IRC 07:40:32 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:49:08 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:49:10 <andythenorth> hello 07:55:09 *** acklen has joined #openttd 08:04:22 *** acklen has quit IRC 08:06:50 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:08:25 *** acklen has joined #openttd 08:16:38 *** acklen has quit IRC 08:45:27 *** acklen has joined #openttd 08:53:40 *** acklen has quit IRC 09:16:25 *** acklen has joined #openttd 09:24:37 *** acklen has quit IRC 09:31:55 *** acklen has joined #openttd 09:40:10 *** acklen has quit IRC 09:48:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:49:21 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:52:58 *** acklen has joined #openttd 09:53:34 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:56:07 *** Progman has quit IRC 10:01:12 *** acklen has quit IRC 10:02:01 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyDU 10:03:16 *** acklen has joined #openttd 10:11:30 *** acklen has quit IRC 10:12:49 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 10:13:39 <Samu> need to post more screenshots 10:14:16 <Samu> i would post a giant screenshot but i doubt ppl would look at it 10:14:58 *** acklen has joined #openttd 10:23:13 *** acklen has quit IRC 10:25:12 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:27:14 <Samu> oh boy this is quite the network 10:29:02 <Samu> map is 1024x1024, the affected vehicles are near the center of the map, a little bit to the north of it 10:30:13 *** acklen has joined #openttd 10:30:59 <Samu> the roads in Brunston, to the south east of those rail lines town are isolated,but the one that goes northwest is connected to a giant network of roads 10:32:46 <Samu> multiple connected roads to several other towns, industries, bridges, a big big network of roads, I would say it can connect to at least most of the entire side of the map, and the left side as well, and I just got into a road that can lead to the south side too, so... it's giant 10:33:45 <Samu> most of the entire *north* side of the map 10:35:22 <Samu> many road AIs in the game 10:35:49 <Samu> and their way of building roads, you can imagine the kind of network that is, if you're familiar with how they build 10:37:15 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:38:01 *** arikover has quit IRC 10:38:25 *** acklen has quit IRC 10:39:07 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:40:27 *** arikover has quit IRC 10:41:12 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:41:42 *** arikover has quit IRC 10:42:14 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:46:09 *** acklen has joined #openttd 10:47:00 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjy9w 10:59:15 *** acklen has quit IRC 11:05:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 11:21:07 *** acklen has joined #openttd 11:38:25 *** acklen has quit IRC 11:49:23 *** acklen has joined #openttd 11:57:35 *** acklen has quit IRC 12:01:31 *** acklen has joined #openttd 12:09:43 *** acklen has quit IRC 12:12:03 <Samu> LordAro: I found the cause 12:12:24 <Samu> i'm nearly sure it's due to the way the cache works 12:13:06 <Samu> when the road vehicle is about to enter the last tile that is in cache 12:13:14 <Samu> and is stuck in traffic 12:13:18 <Samu> which is the case 12:13:26 <Samu> it calls the pathfinder insistently 12:13:30 *** acklen has joined #openttd 12:14:05 <Samu> vehicle is "moving" at 0 km/h and constantly calling the pathfinder, which take 35000 ms each 12:15:18 <Samu> it happens that the road network is at, is such a big one, it doesn't find a path 12:15:33 <Samu> nothing is cached 12:15:38 <Samu> because it's the last tile 12:15:52 <Samu> so it retries pathfinding all the time 12:16:29 <Samu> dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 37672 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR 0.0% - C -1 D -1 - c0(sc0, ts0, o0) -- dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 34459 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR 0.0% - C -1 D -1 - c0(sc0, ts0, o0) -- dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 42715 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR 0.0% - C -1 D -1 - c0(sc0, ts0, o0) -- dbg: [yapf] [YAPFr]! 368- 33536 us - 10001 rounds - 63 open - 10000 closed - CHR 12:20:09 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7672: Crash when opening Game Options https://git.io/fjyHk 12:21:45 *** acklen has quit IRC 12:28:58 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:33:25 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle ticks is higher in YAPF than in NPF https://git.io/fjyHm 12:37:32 <Samu> I still can't provide a savegame, but this is it 12:40:15 <LordAro> Samu: gj 12:43:36 <Samu> i said northeast, i meant northwest 12:56:09 *** acklen has joined #openttd 13:04:22 *** acklen has quit IRC 13:14:42 <Samu> dual core system limits me so much 13:15:05 <Samu> can't run 2 openttd and youtube at the same time, it's slowing down too much for my liking 13:15:26 <Samu> I want my system back 13:25:47 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:25:47 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:26:23 <Samu> ppl badmouth the FX cpu series but now that I'm on a dual core system, I really feel limited in how many stuff I can run on it 13:26:45 *** acklen has joined #openttd 13:35:00 *** acklen has quit IRC 13:40:55 *** acklen has joined #openttd 13:49:08 *** acklen has quit IRC 13:54:25 <Samu> there's some weird bugs with road consutrction 13:54:39 <Samu> doesn't build the same manner as before 13:55:51 <Samu> "land slopped in wrong direction" ... yeah, kinda true, but the last is already autosloped 13:56:04 <Samu> it fails to detect that 14:04:39 <Samu> im trying to manually build a giant road network 14:11:20 <LordAro> just lots of junctions should do it 14:11:23 *** acklen has joined #openttd 14:11:24 <LordAro> dense as you can 14:11:37 <LordAro> i was using a flat blank map earlier 14:11:40 <LordAro> makes it easier :p 14:13:59 <glx> I'm trying to reproduce #7672 14:16:47 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:19:38 *** acklen has quit IRC 14:21:51 <glx> hmm unless there are more than 32 resolutions 14:21:59 <glx> let's try something 14:23:13 <Samu> omgggg im so dumb, i built a network on the wrong openttd version 14:23:21 <Samu> fml 14:23:28 *** acklen has joined #openttd 14:26:23 <glx> ok that's it 14:31:42 *** acklen has quit IRC 14:37:29 <Eddi|zuHause> 32 resolutions ought to be enough for anyone 14:38:01 <glx> yeah but it's now unlimited since https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/9195f2337a7c4f9154058877093bbb74db33cf32 14:38:13 <glx> I need to adapt some code :) 14:38:56 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #7672: Crash when opening Game Options https://git.io/fjyQq 14:48:24 <LordAro> glx: how does more than 32 resolutions break it? 14:49:20 <glx> if (IsInsideMM(ind, (SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_START - 0x70E4), (SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_END - 0x70E4) + 1)) { 14:49:52 <glx> and SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_END = SPECSTR_RESOLUTION_START + 0x1F 14:50:16 <glx> so more than 32 is outside and triggers NOT_REACHED 14:50:38 <LordAro> i see 14:52:51 <Eddi|zuHause> why the magic number 0x70E4? 14:53:13 * LordAro bets reverse engineering reasons 14:53:14 <glx> don't ask ;) 14:53:51 <peter1138> That was so much food 14:53:59 <peter1138> I'm ashamed :/ 14:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> just don't eat anything the rest of the week? i'm sure that works. 14:54:33 <peter1138> Yeah no 14:55:07 *** acklen has joined #openttd 14:55:30 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, youtube, i definitely want to know about 3 powerpoint hacks for instant improvement 14:57:14 <LordAro> who doesn't? 14:58:50 <peter1138> :D 14:58:59 <peter1138> It was the annual cycling club BBQ. 14:59:11 <LordAro> nice 15:02:57 <peter1138> 2 hot dogs and 1 burger, and tons of cheese and salad later... oof, bloated :p 15:03:10 <glx> and beer ? 15:03:18 *** acklen has quit IRC 15:03:33 <peter1138> 2 pints of session IPA. Other people were doing plenty of drinking. 15:03:39 <LordAro> one of our club members is a pub landlord 15:03:42 <LordAro> which helps with these things 15:04:18 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...glx22:fix7672 15:04:22 <glx> should work 15:05:03 <LordAro> nnyby: ^ 15:05:44 <peter1138> Heh, nice. 15:05:59 <glx> string handling is so ugly in openttd ;) 15:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: would it make sense to do (ind+0xWHATEVER)? 15:07:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 15:11:42 *** acklen has joined #openttd 15:12:49 <glx> hmm could use IsInsideBS() in this case 15:13:16 * andythenorth has found Warcraft 1 in some dosbox thing 15:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> also, give this poor magic number a name? 15:13:29 <andythenorth> my liege 15:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> so far i found 2 games that i can't play with this GPU 15:15:02 <andythenorth> oof 15:15:09 <glx> there are more than 2 games I can't play with my GPU :) 15:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, games that somewhat worked before 15:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and by "play" i mean "it runs with >5fps" 15:17:47 <glx> my CPU is also an issue for many UE4 games (know issue with sound and some AMD cpu) 15:17:57 <glx> *known 15:19:55 *** acklen has quit IRC 15:23:05 <peter1138> Bah, SEUS shaders seem to do parallax mapping wrong :/ 15:23:31 <peter1138> And my GPU has an issue with TAA with them too, heh. 15:25:24 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on issue #7670: Road vehicle pathing cache does not always pick up changes in road network https://git.io/fjyQy 15:26:03 <peter1138> Well it's not designed to :p 15:27:02 <LordAro> the issue title isn't great, but it's better than the previous :p 15:27:06 <LordAro> feel free to improve it 15:33:47 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:42:38 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 15:45:14 *** acklen has joined #openttd 15:49:34 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:59:22 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 15:59:46 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 16:01:00 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 16:06:42 *** acklen has quit IRC 16:27:51 <Samu> oh crap, can't even host a server 16:28:05 <Samu> requires firewall, admin rights 16:28:09 <Samu> this sucks 16:29:25 <Samu> can't even test my stuff properly... 16:31:39 *** acklen has joined #openttd 16:53:09 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 16:55:27 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 17:05:16 *** Beerbelott has joined #openttd 17:07:42 <Beerbelott> Is there a way to share stations between companies? 17:07:54 <LordAro> no 17:07:56 <Beerbelott> I do not see anything about it in https://wiki.openttd.org/Openttd.cfg#.5Bstation.5D 17:08:25 <Beerbelott> Ah OK. Could that be seen as an improvement, on top of explicit configuration to allow it? 17:08:29 <LordAro> there have been a few infrastructure sharing patches over the years, but they all had issues in some way or another 17:08:37 <Beerbelott> Ah OK 17:11:57 <Samu> just play in the same company? 17:15:01 <Samu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXu0zuOKQ2A&list=RDcXu0zuOKQ2A&start_radio=1 her skin being decoupled, im oversensitive to this crap, feels like I'm watching a horror movie 17:15:32 <LordAro> and you somehow felt it appropriate to link here? 17:15:34 <LordAro> don't do that 17:16:52 <Samu> :( ok 17:17:26 <Samu> because I don't have anybody else to share 17:20:23 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: Note that oil rigs (and newgrf industries with built-in stations) are shared 17:20:48 <FLHerne> So you can transfer cargo between companies, just inconveniently 17:21:38 <FLHerne> Doing so breaks the payment system -- the company doing final delivery gets all the income -- which was one of the main problems with the patches 17:22:54 <FLHerne> (tracking all hops for each cargo-packet would be badly inefficient, and payment on transfer between companies is exploitable for cheating) 17:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> bah, it's so annoying when you lose a world wonder like 2 turns before finishing it 17:24:13 <FLHerne> Are these like the AoE ones? 17:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the Civ ones 17:24:39 <Eddi|zuHause> whoever finishes it first, gets the bonus 17:25:37 *** acklen has quit IRC 17:33:14 <Samu> pay backwards 17:34:58 <Samu> cargo packets would need to store some additional info perhaps 17:40:03 <Samu> how would the income slice for each transfer round be computed 17:49:12 <peter1138> Isn't that quite the question? 18:02:35 *** acklen has joined #openttd 18:17:13 *** acklen has quit IRC 18:17:15 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] stormcone commented on pull request #7652: Fix #7635: Game crash on exit scenario editor. https://git.io/fjy54 18:24:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:30:59 <LordAro> peter1138: ^ thoughts? 18:32:29 *** SpComb has quit IRC 18:33:14 *** acklen has joined #openttd 18:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> meanwhile: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3WuQxnA7Hg 18:38:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:41:17 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:41:25 *** acklen has quit IRC 18:45:28 *** acklen has joined #openttd 18:53:43 *** acklen has quit IRC 19:01:06 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 19:04:45 <Beerbelott> FLHerne: Yeah I was wondering about those "Transfer" payments... Just remembered the payment is not done until a green income pops up... 19:05:04 <Beerbelott> That's a game mechanic, which makes sharing actually dangerous 19:05:12 <Beerbelott> Not a bad mechanic though 19:05:16 <Beerbelott> but uncontrollable 19:06:15 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: Right 19:06:28 <Beerbelott> About transfer payments... Is value 100% retained for transfered cargo? Or is there some loss? 19:06:36 <Beerbelott> I suppose there must be some decaying 19:07:01 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: Cargo value is based on time-in-transit, not counting waiting at stations 19:07:15 <Beerbelott> Hence no decaying at all? 19:07:53 <FLHerne> Under the 'charts' button there's a set of graphs of "average speed -> payment rate" per cargo 19:07:57 <FLHerne> Times distance 19:08:02 <FLHerne> No 19:08:30 <FLHerne> Although if there's too much cargo at a station, or too long between trains, some can just outright vanish 19:08:49 <Beerbelott> Well transferring from trains to buses hurt because for the final leg speed sinks greatly, but I saw buses delivering for a couple kilo while normally it's usually a couple hundreds :D 19:09:25 <Beerbelott> OK thx for that 19:10:18 <FLHerne> The transfer "payments" are entirely estimated - they're just x% of what /would/ be paid if it was delivered right there 19:10:24 <FLHerne> (x is configurable) 19:11:23 <FLHerne> And the final payment is the real income, minus fictitious transfer payments already shown 19:12:01 <FLHerne> So it's negative if the last vehicle was much slower than average, or the cargo followed a very indirect route 19:15:44 <Samu> cargodist likes to do that 19:17:55 *** acklen has joined #openttd 19:21:21 <Beerbelott> Hmm does that mean using buses on endlinks to distribute cargo round town is a bad habit and the station should rather be separated from the bus network in order to maximize profit? 19:33:48 *** acklen has quit IRC 19:35:31 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:35:34 *** SpComb has joined #openttd 19:39:37 <nielsm> Beerbelott: the buses are probably still making more than they cost to run, just the transfer calculation misrepresents it 19:40:56 <Samu> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ11QshWkYM&list=OLAK5uy_kB5qXUVPbQCe9Iy0sEPTtRFo6FvmNiGnI&index=11 - shamanistic chanting or some sorts 19:41:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:55:41 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:55:53 <Samu> I wish random ais avoided repeating the same ai 19:56:09 <Samu> if there are more ais to chose from 19:57:01 *** acklen has joined #openttd 20:13:57 *** acklen has quit IRC 20:17:23 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 20:29:08 <Beerbelott> nielsm: Sure, but comparing a scenario where trains deliver/take cargo from a seperate station from a bus loop to another scenario where trains connect to one of the buses' station, if cargo transfer loses value, one way of another (buses being much slower than trains, ending payment lowered by fictious transfer money I'll never see, etc), wouldn't the "disconnected" scenario be more profitable? 20:30:00 <Beerbelott> At least the generated cargo would not suffer from the "transfer" mechanism. One of the q° being if the generated cargo volume would then be the same or not 20:34:23 *** acklen has joined #openttd 20:40:47 <andythenorth> lol 20:40:56 <andythenorth> after 3 hours of original Warcraft 1 in dosbox 20:41:10 <andythenorth> OpenTTD looks ridiculously high-res 20:42:37 *** acklen has quit IRC 20:48:46 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: Yes 20:49:47 <FLHerne> Beerbelott: But, as with everything else, the optimal way to make money (by a huge margin) is with airports in the map corners 20:50:53 <Beerbelott> Ouch, did you just confirm connecting stations actually *lowers* profit? 20:50:59 <FLHerne> Or, failing that, the fastest available train 20:51:07 <FLHerne> There's no remotely financially-optimal game plan that gives road vehicles any consideration at all 20:51:37 <Beerbelott> That I know of 20:52:06 <FLHerne> Yes (if you do have road vehicles, for profit you should have them feed /into/ a higher-speed network, then have no-load orders) 20:52:27 <Beerbelott> But road vehicles allow quick & basic coverage of relatively small town (those for which a single train station won't encompass them) 20:52:45 <Beerbelott> Aha! 20:52:58 <FLHerne> I just disagree that "ouch" really applies, because playing OTTD for financial optimality is no fun anyway 20:53:16 <Beerbelott> Hence, since there won't be loading, that would mean 4 stops for twon growth + a 5th one for train loading 20:53:50 <FLHerne> Something like that, yep 20:53:58 <Beerbelott> FLHerne: Well. I'll leave that to each & everyone appreciation on how to play management transportation games 20:54:04 <FLHerne> (I've done that sort of thing in CityBuilder games) 20:54:21 <Beerbelott> Thx for all that :) 20:55:31 *** arikover has quit IRC 20:56:06 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 20:56:21 <Samu> i miss my cats 21:04:57 *** arikover has joined #openttd 21:07:48 *** arikover has quit IRC 21:09:50 *** Thedarkb-T60 has joined #openttd 21:11:50 *** acklen has joined #openttd 21:16:23 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fjyFr 21:18:24 *** acklen has quit IRC 21:20:28 <Samu> clever bot vs copy paste 21:26:37 <Samu> https://www.cleverbot.com/conv/201907282218/WXCOSIV6VY_There-s-no-remotely-financially-optimal-game-plan-that-gives-road-vehicles-any-consideration-at-all 21:26:56 <Samu> uninteresting... 21:39:19 <Samu> well, cyas 21:39:27 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:49:15 *** acklen has joined #openttd 22:03:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:04:58 *** acklen has quit IRC 22:07:44 *** acklen has joined #openttd 22:14:07 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:15:52 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:15:58 *** acklen has quit IRC 22:27:43 *** acklen has joined #openttd 22:29:59 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:32:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 22:35:57 *** acklen has quit IRC 22:36:09 *** acklen has joined #openttd 22:43:24 *** Thedarkb-T60 has quit IRC 22:48:04 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:51:28 *** acklen has quit IRC 22:55:31 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 23:10:04 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC