Times are UTC Toggle Colours
01:01:49 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 01:09:18 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 01:43:27 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:06:57 *** glx has quit IRC 02:51:21 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:54:36 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:16:04 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 03:45:52 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:25:51 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 05:07:41 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #7678: Crash on loading saved game from #4397 https://git.io/fj9wZ 05:14:42 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7646: Random map generation failure crashes the game (dedicated server). https://git.io/fj9wn 05:36:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 05:44:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:10:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 06:42:22 <andythenorth> yo 07:06:59 *** arikover has joined #openttd 07:19:56 <LordAro> someone should really look at some of these savegames 07:20:07 <LordAro> apparently there are a lot of them 07:29:22 <andythenorth> 'someone should really' is a common thing :) 07:29:27 <andythenorth> I noticed the same though 07:29:39 <andythenorth> variation between master and stable? 07:29:50 <andythenorth> or did I misunderstand the reports? 07:34:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 07:34:24 <LordAro> andythenorth: i do say it a lot, for sure :p 07:34:29 <LordAro> time tho :( 07:35:36 <andythenorth> oof 07:43:36 *** arikover has quit IRC 07:49:50 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 07:50:29 <LordAro> not like i have the "family" excuse either 07:53:09 <andythenorth> grinding savegames does not appeal much to me :P 07:54:05 <andythenorth> @calc 357*2000 07:54:05 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 714000 07:54:42 <andythenorth> turns out I'll happilly grind 714k pixels :P 07:54:49 <andythenorth> probably more like 1m, all in 07:55:10 <andythenorth> that's like 1m clicks, my trackpad is getting well-used 07:55:59 *** Samu has joined #openttd 08:24:56 <Samu> what's the fastest sort in number of operations? 08:25:23 <Samu> for pathfinder purposes/script opcode 08:25:26 <Samu> s 08:26:18 *** arikover has joined #openttd 08:26:52 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 08:30:19 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:37:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:38:42 <andythenorth> is Firefox over? 08:38:45 <andythenorth> it really just doesn't work 08:39:24 <andythenorth> I constantly have to quit it due to non-responsive windows 08:41:21 <arikover> It may be OS-related: I'm not experiencing such problems at the moment (Ubu 18.04) 08:42:04 *** sergei_ has joined #openttd 08:42:53 <andythenorth> might be the Mac build only 08:44:01 *** qwebirc28671 has joined #openttd 08:48:25 <arikover> Surely you already tried every fix in the book already? 08:49:24 <andythenorth> I have not tried any 08:49:26 <andythenorth> it's all BS 08:49:36 <arikover> oh. 08:49:36 <andythenorth> 'reset to factory defaults' all that crap 08:50:41 * andythenorth deletes the only two extensions installed 08:51:17 <andythenorth> FF is a turkey, I only use it to segregate certain logged in services from general browsing 08:51:30 <andythenorth> Chrome for general internet 08:51:36 <andythenorth> Safari for web dev :P 08:51:55 <andythenorth> but ha ha, IE will be available for Mac soon (again) 08:52:35 <arikover> Well now you just have to wait for IE, I guess... 08:53:15 <andythenorth> looks like dev build is available 08:53:44 <andythenorth> hmm time to go to office 08:53:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:07:05 *** sergei_ has quit IRC 09:09:47 *** sergei_ has joined #openttd 09:13:56 *** arikover has quit IRC 09:14:45 *** Laedek has quit IRC 09:14:57 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 09:16:11 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:22:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 09:39:00 <Samu> how do I make my save data be compatible with an earlier version of my AI? 09:39:07 <Samu> because it is 09:39:25 <Samu> but it doesn't want to load it 09:40:48 <Samu> i have AI version 12, it saves data as version 12, and it won't load on version 11, even though I know it is compatible 09:40:52 <Samu> how do I force load? 10:05:15 <sergei_> Hi guys! What AI would you recommend? 10:06:18 <sergei_> for play with trains 10:18:49 *** sergei_ has quit IRC 10:48:59 <Samu> not mine 10:49:02 <Samu> no trains in it 11:38:20 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 11:50:16 <planetmaker> @logs 11:50:16 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 12:20:35 <andythenorth> hmm 12:20:55 <andythenorth> I am using animated red-black pixel for rear lights on trains 12:21:13 <andythenorth> that's not going to work eh 12:21:44 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "work" 12:24:45 <andythenorth> well for [unknow proportion] of player base, full animation needs to be off 12:24:56 <andythenorth> which leads to the pixel being frequently invisible 12:25:31 <andythenorth> 'work' ? 12:25:33 <planetmaker> why... would they be invisible for those? 12:25:51 <planetmaker> as in not changinge colour? I guess that's the definition of "animation on/off" 12:26:17 <andythenorth> they frequently get stuck on the black part of the cycle 12:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> so, you want it to be blinking, but fear that for some people who have animation off, it'll be in the "black" state? 12:26:32 <planetmaker> with animation=off I'm not concerned about that 12:26:32 <andythenorth> yes 12:26:46 <andythenorth> mostly I don't see them, because I can't use full animation 12:26:52 <andythenorth> so I was shipping bugs for months 12:27:02 <andythenorth> maybe I animate them myself 12:27:08 <planetmaker> animation not happening with animation=off sounds like "works as designed" 12:27:21 <andythenorth> yes, my point is, should I no use it 12:27:23 <andythenorth> not * 12:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> there's two red blinking cycles, so try the other one? 12:27:47 <andythenorth> I only know of one, the crossing cycle 12:27:52 <andythenorth> there's the fire cycle also 12:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but there's two crossing lights that alternate, or not? 12:28:09 <Samu> creating a list of vehicles that go to a station can be too slow when there are already too many vehicles in the world 12:28:17 <planetmaker> I don't think so @ eddi 12:28:20 <andythenorth> they are drawn one starting on black, one on red 12:28:29 <Samu> as slow as spike burst stalls 12:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, use the one that starts on red 12:29:08 <andythenorth> ok so this is a problem local to me 12:29:22 <planetmaker> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/PalettesAndCoordinates#Palettes <-- I see one...? 12:29:28 <andythenorth> I frequently turn animation on and off for $valid reasons 12:29:36 <andythenorth> most players probably don't 12:29:45 <Samu> noticeable for example with 15 AIs 12:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "red cycle" clearly points to two entries there 12:31:17 <planetmaker> yes... two colours. _You say each pixel there is a separate cycle? 12:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 12:31:25 <andythenorth> strictly yes 12:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> one is red/black and one is black/red 12:31:31 <andythenorth> they're timed differently, two cycles 12:31:35 <planetmaker> and as in we have 7 fire cycles 12:31:39 <andythenorth> strictly yes 12:31:41 <planetmaker> with that definition...yes 12:31:44 <andythenorth> natural confusion 12:31:55 <andythenorth> semantics :P 12:32:25 <andythenorth> I won't animate them myself :D 12:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> why are they animated rear lights in the first place? 12:33:03 <andythenorth> 'realism' 12:33:11 <andythenorth> for certain cases, not others 12:33:15 <andythenorth> and because I could :P 12:33:16 <planetmaker> trains I see passing have no blinking rear lights :) 12:33:33 <andythenorth> I could just use solid red 12:33:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, which real case are you modelling? 12:33:51 <andythenorth> US / UK non-built-in rear lights from about 1970, 12:33:57 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, drunk driver hitting switches randomly :P 12:34:16 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-train_device 12:34:39 <andythenorth> but it could easily just be solid red 12:36:48 * andythenorth uses paint bucket 12:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> but, back to your "animation off" problem, i think it should be solvable by using the other palette entry 12:37:24 <andythenorth> I do :) 12:37:33 <andythenorth> it should be solid red with animation off 12:37:37 <andythenorth> it's just frequently not 12:37:43 <andythenorth> but that's local to me 12:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll only be a problem if you switch it on and off 12:38:48 <andythenorth> yes 12:41:21 <andythenorth> thanks 14:09:41 *** Gumle2 has joined #openttd 14:12:22 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:21:26 *** Gumle2 has quit IRC 14:35:49 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, my garbage trucks create a huge pile of traffic jam 14:42:42 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and i can't solve it until the landfills have been cleared out 14:47:20 <andythenorth> oof 14:47:34 <andythenorth> my peasants in Warcraft kept getting stuck 14:47:47 <andythenorth> I had to destroy town buildings for them 14:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> why hasn't there been a warcraft 4? 14:58:42 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 14:59:06 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:03:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 15:09:28 <andythenorth> https://www.gamingscan.com/warcraft-4-release-date-news-and-rumors/ 15:09:33 <andythenorth> LMGTFY :) 15:12:16 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 15:40:49 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i was just thinking "they probably just make a remake of 3" 15:47:40 <Samu> my AI is now valuatorless 15:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i built a freight port... and it immediately can't handle the amount of trucks trying to come in 15:52:19 <Samu> just finished codechanging this to not use valuators, I'm unsure if I like the results yet, must test. 16:11:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sounds like OpenTTD 16:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause> worse... 16:18:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i now upgraded to 3 ports, maybe it'll distribute them, or just spawn more trucks 16:26:01 <Samu> I'm already thinking of my next AI tournament 16:27:23 <Samu> in groups of insert a big number up to 15 AIs will fight in the same map 16:27:34 <Samu> only one will stand out 16:27:46 <Samu> i'm not sure yet for how long I will run it 16:29:10 <Samu> probably will be in groups of 12, since there's 48 AIs 16:29:34 <Samu> too bad I can't setup 48 AIs :( 16:33:29 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:33:42 <Samu> my AI frametime is less spiky, but the average ms have increased 16:34:00 <Samu> the AI also feels delayed 16:34:13 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 16:36:31 <Samu> at least the max ops is not decreasing all the way down to 500 16:36:36 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 16:36:58 <Samu> spikes would do that 16:42:53 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] James103 opened issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows https://git.io/fj9Sd 16:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> bot broken? 16:56:12 <Eddi|zuHause> ah no, title was broken 16:58:18 <Samu> will variable max ops be a thing in openttd? 16:59:09 <Samu> the variation is cpu dependant 16:59:58 <Samu> but makes things irreproducible 17:00:10 <Samu> due to that 17:01:40 <Samu> aww snap, got 500 max ops just now, t.t 17:03:12 <Samu> the damn thing is over sensitive, decrease adjustments are too sharp 17:04:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:06:15 <Samu> this is a situation where I need my system to find out what's taking too much time 17:06:22 <Samu> my computer :( 17:07:02 <acklen> you need a server farm 17:08:45 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas commented on pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fj99c 17:11:18 <Samu> 141 days needed to pathfind with 28 tries 17:11:35 <Samu> considering there's 15 AIs, this ain't bad 17:12:10 <Samu> the default 10000 would probably take longer 17:37:33 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] glx22 commented on issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows "Login" instead of "Logout (account name)" https://git.io/fj995 17:38:13 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:38:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:39:53 <Samu> i had an idea 17:41:30 <Samu> a button or hotkey to hide all open windows, to peak at the main world 17:41:52 <Samu> pressing it again, brings all windows back to their exact place 17:42:06 <Samu> some sort of "peak desktop" for openttd 17:44:05 <Samu> this monitor is just too small for my liking 17:45:59 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:58:01 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:17:03 *** Alkel_U3 has quit IRC 18:26:58 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #7611: Accident/disaster news not always showing https://git.io/fj9H8 18:31:03 *** sergei_ has joined #openttd 18:33:42 *** arikover has joined #openttd 18:34:38 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:41:34 *** arikover has quit IRC 18:59:02 <andythenorth> is cat? 19:00:10 <Arveen> is MROW 19:02:50 <LordAro> is caterpillar 19:04:47 *** Alkel_U3 has joined #openttd 19:19:04 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #7677: Fix #7672: more than 32 resolutions may be available https://git.io/fj9QZ 19:19:10 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #7677: Fix #7672: more than 32 resolutions may be available https://git.io/fj9Bj 19:19:21 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7672: Crash when opening Game Options https://git.io/fjyKl 19:19:36 *** Progman has quit IRC 19:21:54 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nikolas updated pull request #7086: Change #6173: Update SDL driver to use SDL 2.0 https://git.io/fhamZ 19:23:38 <Samu> jesus this cpu is really bad, compared to mine... https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-Celeron-E1400-vs-AMD-FX-8150-Eight-Core/674vs263 19:24:28 <Samu> didn't expect single-thread performance to be worse than mine 19:25:33 <milek7> why? it's old celeron 19:25:55 <glx> of course a celeron is bad 19:26:10 <glx> it was already bad when it appeared IIRC :) 19:31:34 <Samu> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-Celeron-E1400-vs-AMD-Athlon-XP-2700+/674vs229 19:31:38 <Samu> wow, it's really bad 19:32:09 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:36:13 <LordAro> it's over 10 years old 19:36:36 <LordAro> and yes, it was the bargin basement of intel CPUs when it was released 19:37:02 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #7658: Add: 'getsysdate' console command https://git.io/fj9QK 19:39:12 <andythenorth> is it as bad as mine? 19:39:23 <andythenorth> I can get OpenTTD to use 98% of CPU whilst paused 19:39:52 <andythenorth> it ran my battery flat in about 40 minutes this morning :P 19:40:35 <glx> 98% of CPU just to refresh the screen ? 19:40:44 <glx> something is weird 19:41:39 <andythenorth> actually I exaggerate 19:41:46 <andythenorth> it's only 49% of CPU whilst paused 19:41:55 <andythenorth> time to buy a new laptop? 19:42:30 <andythenorth> it's 98% if I unpause, and put the map in the corner 19:43:15 <andythenorth> do we need to drop support for older hardware? 19:44:52 <milek7> btw. is that rate counter out of range or something? ;P 19:44:58 <milek7> https://i.imgur.com/Kwk3Jnp.png 19:45:41 <andythenorth> it can be topped out 19:46:29 <glx> and these high values in fast forward are not really relevant ;) 19:46:56 <glx> it's more important to have the "right" values at normal speed 19:47:21 <glx> ~33fps 19:47:32 <andythenorth> I'd just like my battery back :P 19:47:37 <andythenorth> and yes 33fps would be nice 19:47:40 <andythenorth> 16fps is a bit laggy 19:48:07 <andythenorth> but my laptop is is getting old 19:50:12 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 20:00:29 <DorpsGek_II> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on issue #96: www.openttd.org always shows "Login" instead of "Logout (account name)" https://git.io/fj9Q9 20:04:41 <Samu> openttd needs a benchmark :p 20:09:36 <Samu> oh such a tiny window 20:10:06 <Samu> milek7: 20:12:04 <milek7> yeah, it isn't that fast on fullscreen ;) 20:12:19 <Samu> https://imgur.com/undefined 20:12:23 <Samu> https://imgur.com/lACkN5g 20:12:25 <Samu> lel 20:14:41 <milek7> speaking of benchmarks, i have 15fps on wentbourne.sav ;P 20:14:44 <Samu> AI manages stable 10000 on trashy celeron 20:14:48 <Samu> 15 instances 20:16:13 <glx> wentbourne doesn't count I think 20:17:38 <Samu> let me open wentbourne.save 20:18:49 <andythenorth> are we testing recent master here, or 1.9.x? 20:18:58 <andythenorth> and debug builds, or prod? 20:19:37 <milek7> prod 20:19:59 <andythenorth> ok, so with master, I can get 20fps 20:20:04 <andythenorth> and 20fps on ffwd 20:20:15 <andythenorth> map size is 64x64 20:20:36 <andythenorth> no vehicles, no AI 20:20:57 <Samu> that is some bad system 20:21:00 <andythenorth> yes 20:21:05 <andythenorth> it's from like 2018 20:21:08 <andythenorth> so it's really old 20:21:18 <Samu> 2018, 1 year old? 20:21:20 <andythenorth> yes 20:21:22 <glx> for a mac yes 20:21:36 <glx> it's old when new ;) 20:21:39 <andythenorth> yes 20:22:08 <andythenorth> it's a crap chip 20:22:09 <glx> but always expensive 20:22:24 <glx> because there's an apple on it 20:22:49 <andythenorth> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-8559U+%40+2.70GHz&id=3302 20:23:17 <andythenorth> value for money 0 20:23:43 <andythenorth> and not good enough to run OpenTTD 20:24:23 <andythenorth> if I turn off full animation, the same map gets about 33fps 20:24:56 <andythenorth> and about 300-400fps on ffwd 20:25:24 <glx> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-6100+Six-Core&id=257 20:25:48 <glx> that's mine 20:25:54 <Samu> wentbourne.sav gets 4.9 - 5 fps 20:26:12 <Samu> (0.15x) 20:26:14 <milek7> mine is https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+3600&id=3481 20:26:19 <andythenorth> with 1.9.1 the same map gets about 16fps 20:26:30 <Samu> oh, but im on my custom build 20:26:49 <andythenorth> ffwd gets on 1.9.1 gets about 100-200fps 20:27:07 <andythenorth> if I turn off full animation, the same map gets about 33fps 20:27:13 <glx> IIRC the cpu is not the main issue on OSX :) 20:27:19 <andythenorth> ffwd gets around 2k fps 20:27:29 <glx> there's something weird with the screen drawing 20:27:44 <andythenorth> so 1.9.1 is slower to draw full animation, at normal speed 20:27:47 <andythenorth> than master 20:27:52 <andythenorth> but runs ffwd much much faster 20:28:04 <andythenorth> and generally holds up frame rates in normal game play with animation off 20:28:13 <andythenorth> whereas master drops to 15-16fps in gameplay 20:28:32 <andythenorth> it's all lolz :) 20:31:17 <milek7> maybe try to bisect it? 20:31:34 <andythenorth> I will once I've finished Iron Horse 2 beta 20:31:46 <andythenorth> 2 trains left to draw :P 20:32:02 <glx> until you add more trains ;) 20:33:26 <andythenorth> that's 2.1 20:33:26 <andythenorth> :P 20:33:28 <andythenorth> there are rules 20:34:01 *** Tirili has quit IRC 20:38:00 <Samu> test my build, https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=85608 20:38:04 <Samu> someone 20:38:21 <Samu> only 5 downloads, 1 was me :( 20:38:48 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:40:35 <milek7> Samu: i managed to find even slower cpu ;) 20:40:37 <milek7> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Atom+N450+%40+1.66GHz&id=618 20:41:05 <milek7> 60fps on ffwd on fresh map 20:49:56 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 20:54:35 <Samu> animation disabled? 20:55:18 <Samu> test my build on that with some AI(s) 20:55:49 <Samu> look at those max ops if you can 20:57:36 *** Maarten has quit IRC 20:57:47 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 20:57:52 <Samu> oh, dont tell me that's a 32-bit cpu 21:00:39 <milek7> yes, it's on 32 bit OS 21:00:52 <Samu> crap :( 21:00:59 *** Progman has joined #openttd 21:01:15 <Samu> build it yourself https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/compare/master...SamuXarick:SamuPatchPackRebase?expand=1#commits_bucket 21:02:29 <Samu> I don't know why Alberth commit got there 21:02:38 <Samu> but whatever 21:07:31 <milek7> it would take ages ;) 21:07:35 <milek7> i can test something on my ryzen later 21:08:52 <Samu> cool, thx 21:42:43 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:59:28 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:20:34 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 22:30:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i'm 3/4 building a cloverleaf, and debating whether i should do the 4th leaf or do a half-direct turn instead 22:37:42 *** arikover has joined #openttd 22:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> not that building a cloverleaf in C:S is difficult enough as it is 22:57:55 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:13:28 <arikover> /quit7 23:13:36 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:33:34 *** sergei_ has quit IRC