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00:05:24 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:14:55 *** arikover` has joined #openttd 00:16:59 *** arikover` has quit IRC 00:22:09 *** arikover has quit IRC 01:18:50 *** DDR has joined #openttd 01:45:17 *** spnda has quit IRC 02:23:37 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:27:02 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:40:26 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has joined #openttd 02:46:23 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 02:49:37 *** glx has quit IRC 03:41:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bryan-lunt commented on issue #7623: Support for macOS Catalina. https://git.io/fj2uh 05:46:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:10:10 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:30:37 *** lpx has quit IRC 06:32:11 *** lpx has joined #openttd 07:10:47 *** Fliedo has quit IRC 07:11:15 *** lpx has quit IRC 07:16:37 *** lpx has joined #openttd 07:56:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:06:08 <crem> 0 is like 1/20 of a steam engine in openttd! 08:12:55 <crem> btw that "local authority refuses to allow this" thingy is pretty small detail of the game, but still it seems it would be worth fixing. It's a fine idea, but pretty awkward implementation. Especially given that solution is planting lots of trees, which you usually chop right away because you place station on top. 08:29:42 *** arikover has joined #openttd 08:59:42 <peter1138> load average: 266.00, 264.13, 254.35 08:59:44 <peter1138> Hmmz 09:01:07 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 09:34:48 <LordAro> peter1138: that seems high 09:35:44 <andythenorth> minecraft is CPU intensive eh? 09:37:50 <crem> Probably computing path-based signals. :-P 09:42:14 <peter1138> Disk failure on my old server. Which is nice :( 09:42:31 <andythenorth> ouch 09:43:03 <peter1138> Yes, my stupid fault for not having backups. Who'd'a thunk it. 09:43:22 <peter1138> One of those "it's on RAID but it's not important" things. 09:43:54 <andythenorth> but...RAID 10 is invincible? 09:44:05 <peter1138> So, er, there's a few OpenTTD patches missing :p 09:44:58 <andythenorth> all code dies 09:45:08 <peter1138> Urgh. 09:45:11 <andythenorth> you just avoided bureaucracy around PRs and stuff :P 09:45:15 <andythenorth> think of the time saved 09:45:18 <crem> One strategy is to always buy crappiest disks possible. I did that from 1998 till 2010 and every year there was at least 1 failed disk. Made me not forget about backups! And now I use higher quality disks and don't do backups, will bite me soon! 09:45:54 <peter1138> Yeah, the issue is it's never had disk errors, and still doesn't show the normal read/write errors. It just freezes. 09:46:00 <andythenorth> I assume it's all on dropbox or something 09:46:04 <andythenorth> that will burn me one day 09:46:09 <peter1138> And it is software RAID, so not being hidden by a RAID controller either. 09:46:35 <peter1138> No SMART errors either. 09:46:51 <peter1138> Device: /dev/sdb [SAT], is in SLEEP mode, suspending checks 09:46:57 <peter1138> It's put itself to sleep :p 09:47:07 <crem> disks are expensive. :( They stopped following Moore's law 15 years ago and don't really grow in last 10 years. 09:47:35 <crem> And it means backups are expensive. 09:48:42 <peter1138> These are 500GB PATA disks, so, er, yeah, quite old. 09:49:18 <crem> Tape is expensive too. It's only ~2 times cheaper in a limit, and that "limit" starts at petabytes scale, totally unfeasible for home use. 09:49:54 <peter1138> Also, copying from MicroSD to my NAS is really slow :( 09:50:53 <crem> Yeah it's also one way in which hard disks didn't develop. Internet speed is faster than disk speed! That was unbelievable 15 years ago. 09:51:36 <peter1138> Well, that's my NAS being shit. Single-core ARM, I believe. 09:51:48 <peter1138> And the MicroSD is the boot disk in a Raspberry Pi. 09:52:19 <peter1138> (I grabbed files from the server last night down to the pi, now I'm backing those files up onto the NAS) 09:52:31 <peter1138> ((But I couldn't grab /home from the server)) 09:52:40 <andythenorth> crem: internet speed is very not faster than disk speed for me :D 09:52:53 <peter1138> Heh, yeah, true that. 09:53:31 <peter1138> I'm guessing a SATA/PATA or USB/PATA adapter will cope really badly with disk errors. Hmm. 09:53:34 <andythenorth> oof 09:53:47 <peter1138> I wonder if I have a machine lying around with PATA ports... 09:53:53 <crem> I have symmetric gigabit at home. And there are ISPs that offer 10 gigabit, but I don't have either network adapter for that or any idea what I would use it for. 09:54:02 <peter1138> Should do, I think my optical drives in my last machine were PATA. 09:54:05 <andythenorth> gigabit not gigabyte though :) 09:54:14 <andythenorth> my disk does 2.5GB/s 09:54:32 <peter1138> andythenorth, that'll be an SSD, not a HDD. 09:54:59 <andythenorth> peter1138: I have an old firewire 400 enclosure in the loft somewhere, might be PATA if you get desperate :P 09:55:12 <andythenorth> I have a SATA USB2 thing somewhere, not seen PATA for years 09:55:18 <andythenorth> sure it's not SCSI? :) 09:58:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TheDude-gh opened pull request #7771: Add: UDP query of game script https://git.io/Je8MS 10:11:55 <peter1138> Heh 10:14:18 <LordAro> they actually made PATA disks with 500G? 10:14:34 <peter1138> Yes. 10:14:57 <peter1138> odel Family: Western Digital Caviar Blue EIDE 10:15:09 <peter1138> User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB] 10:17:58 <LordAro> nice 10:18:07 <LordAro> power on hours? 10:18:24 <LordAro> i did once have a disk that overflowed its 16bit hour count 10:32:26 * andythenorth is very hungry 10:32:34 <andythenorth> I have solved at least 2 problems since breakfast 10:32:40 <andythenorth> requires food 10:34:28 <peter1138> 95894 hours. 10:34:46 <peter1138> Hmm, 11 years. 10:34:48 <peter1138> Done well. 10:35:42 <peter1138> Power cycle count... 22. 10:35:53 <andythenorth> MTBF 10:36:01 <andythenorth> 'probably fine' 10:37:03 <LordAro> peter1138: nice 10:37:58 <peter1138> And it's a blue edition, not a server or NAS edition. 10:38:11 <andythenorth> £200 well spent 10:38:53 <peter1138> https://support-en.wd.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/16964 11:33:14 <crem> Oh, enabled maintenance costs.. Using signal on every second cell is quite expensive! 12:07:23 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd 12:07:59 <Sacro> Yeah... that's hitting me hard 12:08:03 <Sacro> And using 80mph track 12:24:26 <andythenorth> super hungry 12:34:27 *** firewire1394 has quit IRC 12:49:54 <crem> Maintenance cost keeps game interesting economywise longer. 13:04:17 *** qwebirc28735 has joined #openttd 13:23:08 <andythenorth> oof still not lunch 13:23:13 * andythenorth mistakes were made 13:29:47 <andythenorth> eh validator passes, WAVE passes, contrast checker passes 13:29:48 <andythenorth> hurrah 13:29:55 * andythenorth making a web page 13:37:30 <crem> Another observation.. Vehicle breakdowns are fine.. But what is not fine, is SOUND when they do that! Sound is the only reason I keep breakdowns settings to "reduced". 14:12:32 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:20:17 *** supermop_pdx has joined #openttd 14:22:43 <planetmaker> yay... "I've been to your download page and got 1.9.3 macosx but i just get a message from my Imac to put it into the trash bin as the developer can’t be verified. ". Seems obligatory signing of executables on OSX is starting to make live a lot easier... 14:22:51 <planetmaker> (quote from an e-mail to info@ ) 14:27:19 <andythenorth> if their OS is Catalina 14:27:35 <andythenorth> the current mac blogworld advice is "don't upgrade" 14:27:37 <planetmaker> yes... I pointed him to https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/7623#issuecomment-531492284 14:27:52 <andythenorth> I nearly commented on that this morning 14:28:25 <andythenorth> as far as I can tell from the ars review, gatekeeper should not be worse for Catalina than Mojave 14:28:36 <andythenorth> we don't sign anyway, so we shouldn't need to notarise 14:29:26 <planetmaker> there's a lot of "should" in the sentences :P 14:29:35 <planetmaker> Sounds like a clash with reality ;) 14:29:51 <andythenorth> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019/10/macos-10-15-catalina-the-ars-technica-review/11/#h4 14:30:38 <planetmaker> I see 14:31:14 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:32:05 <andythenorth> https://eclecticlight.co/2019/06/07/notarization-in-mojave-and-catalina/ 14:32:32 <andythenorth> generally I'm +1 to the notarisation, but it might kill the mac port of OpenTTD 14:32:43 <andythenorth> it's signposted as becoming more restrictive in future 14:39:29 *** tokai has joined #openttd 14:39:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:40:45 <FLHerne> Is there any reason why OpenTTD can't just get signed? 14:42:28 <crem> I think main reason is that it's not free. 14:45:10 <peter1138> r10130 opengl.diff. HJmm. 14:46:16 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:51:46 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:01:12 <planetmaker> yes... signing for sure will become mandatory... 15:01:54 <planetmaker> I can see reasons for the notarization... but there's also a lot of cons. It's tightening the locks on the golden cage(s) 15:04:57 <planetmaker> so yes... it probably fails on "needs an apple developer account" etc :| 15:05:05 <planetmaker> sad 15:05:31 <planetmaker> they definitely don't come for free... even years back they were like 100€ or something. For a year? 15:06:01 <andythenorth> did we port OpenTTD for MMORG browser game yet? 15:07:19 <planetmaker> https://developer.apple.com/programs/enroll/ hmpf 15:07:52 <planetmaker> So ... it definitely will need making some OpenTTD organization which counts as legal entity. That could indeed also solve the issue with OpenTTD in the MS store 15:08:25 <planetmaker> grmpf 15:08:27 <milek7> windows smartscreen throws scary warnings too. at least it stops after a while each binary is available 15:08:38 <andythenorth> OpenTTD Foundation :P 15:08:47 <andythenorth> who owns the domain and the bank account anyway? 15:08:53 <planetmaker> mr o 15:09:40 <planetmaker> foundation is not so far fetched as it actually sounds. But I'm not sure how much burocracy it needs 15:10:48 <planetmaker> https://blog.openttdcoop.org/2008/06/15/the-openttdcoop-association/ <-- hehe 15:11:34 <planetmaker> I actually wonder... how much legal status that still has :D 15:13:13 <nielsm> a signing cert for windows distributions would also be good yes 15:13:57 <andythenorth> my experience is limited to https://plone.org/foundation 15:14:02 <andythenorth> and that only at arms length 15:14:35 <planetmaker> any such thing will probably require at least a yearly meeting with report from board, especially about accounting 15:14:52 <planetmaker> though meeting surely could be online, if constitution of the assoc or foundation allows 15:16:08 <andythenorth> I am -1 to un-needed bureaucracy :) 15:16:20 <milek7> i have windows codesigning cert from Certum, for 25eur/yearly 15:16:23 <andythenorth> but if it helped anything, it might be worth it 15:16:40 <andythenorth> burocracy is a much easier spelling 15:16:46 <andythenorth> can I adopt it? 15:16:46 <andythenorth> :P 15:17:18 <planetmaker> problem is: it might not be unneeded. Unwanted: yes 15:18:27 <planetmaker> he... bureaucracy... burocracy... Bürokratie 15:18:42 <andythenorth> german spelling is better in this case 15:18:59 <andythenorth> probably a cert could be done by one person 15:19:03 <andythenorth> but bus factor would be high 15:19:39 <planetmaker> an official organization would be able to solve a few things at once... like issues with "we are official" with app stores 15:20:00 <planetmaker> and bus factor 15:20:08 * andythenorth pokes TrueBrain 15:20:12 <andythenorth> does TrueBrain poke back? 15:20:33 <planetmaker> with a long stick :P 15:20:38 <milek7> 'we are official' probably requires some trademark? 15:20:55 <planetmaker> which also requires to be some legal entity 15:21:08 <planetmaker> unless you want to assign that to a single person 15:21:18 <planetmaker> (which also works... but again bus factor) 15:22:36 <planetmaker> https://wiki.wesnoth.org/Project uses "Funding for infrastructure and art and music commissions is provided by Wesnoth, Inc., a US-based company which manages revenue geneated by the official iOS version of the game on the Apple app store. While Wesnoth, Inc. financially supports the project, it does not have any involvement in its organization and direction" 15:23:36 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 15:26:13 <andythenorth> I know of situations, where e.g. a charity sets up a trading arm 15:26:18 <andythenorth> which donates to the charity 15:26:25 <andythenorth> but is otherwise separated 15:26:36 <planetmaker> seems to be the case for wesnoth. somewhat 15:27:09 <andythenorth> https://opensource.com/resources/organizations 15:27:54 <andythenorth> looks like it's purchaseable service :P https://www.softwarefreedom.org/services/ 15:37:56 *** supermop_pdx has quit IRC 15:40:48 *** cHawk has quit IRC 15:50:52 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 15:54:00 *** Kitrana1 has quit IRC 15:55:06 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 16:06:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so, let's try this once more: https://www.twitch.tv/eddijk 16:26:53 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd 16:42:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:45:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 16:51:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 16:52:09 <nielsm> the fiddliness 16:56:28 <andythenorth> anyone ever played Road Hog? 16:56:34 <andythenorth> (the grf) 17:04:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, fiddliness intensifies 17:10:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth opened issue #47: Extend roadtypes / tramtypes examples and provide tests https://git.io/Je8bR 17:14:34 <andythenorth> what is this 5th underlay tile expecting? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/master/examples/roadtype_and_tramtype/example_roadtype_and_tramtype.nml#L85 17:14:49 <andythenorth> currently it has nothing drawn, so triggers white pixel warning 17:14:56 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NotRoadTypes#Level_crossing 17:23:10 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:25:33 *** supermop_pdx has joined #openttd 17:48:30 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:48:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:28:22 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:50:50 <TrueBrain> @kick andythenorth poke 18:50:51 *** andythenorth was kicked by DorpsGek (poke) 18:51:02 <TrueBrain> @invite andythenorth 18:51:04 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: The operation succeeded. 18:51:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:51:26 <andythenorth> oof I was watching Youtube fullscreen 18:51:30 <TrueBrain> scary :P 18:51:31 <andythenorth> and now you interrupted that :P 18:51:45 <TrueBrain> that you get for random highlights 18:51:48 <TrueBrain> no clue why you did :D 18:52:22 <andythenorth> OpenTTD Foundation 18:52:32 <TrueBrain> what about it? 18:52:32 <andythenorth> board member: Truebrain, responsible adult 18:52:41 <andythenorth> it is pointless lolz? 18:53:05 <TrueBrain> having a registered organization would make Steam possible 18:53:11 <andythenorth> oh another plus point 18:53:19 <andythenorth> and the Apple notorisation bollocks 18:53:25 <andythenorth> and maybe MS Store too 18:56:24 <nielsm> and make the donations formally owned by the project and not a person? 18:56:32 <andythenorth> that too 18:56:42 <andythenorth> BUT THERE WOULD BE PAPERWORK 18:56:51 <TrueBrain> also means we can easier publish our donation, and what goes in/out :P 18:57:12 <TrueBrain> (out if 100% infra, I guess :P) 18:57:16 <nielsm> but where would such a foundation have home? 18:57:23 <nielsm> exited brex? 18:57:29 <nielsm> EU somewhere? 18:57:42 <TrueBrain> EU would be wise, given most of us are EU based 18:57:53 <TrueBrain> UK would be slightly annoying, given the current situation created 18:57:57 <TrueBrain> so for me EU is already without UK 18:57:59 <TrueBrain> just saying :P 18:58:32 <TrueBrain> but I have 0.0000 clue how such thing works, so I hope someone can fix it or what-ever :P 18:59:02 <TrueBrain> there is one downside: having a legal entity attached to OpenTTD also means we have a legal entity attached to OpenTTD ;) 18:59:03 <nielsm> forming board meeting at the 2.0 release party 18:59:05 <TrueBrain> also just saying :D 18:59:21 <TrueBrain> all-expenses-paid-trip you say? :P 18:59:23 <TrueBrain> HAWAIIIIIIII 18:59:34 <andythenorth> means Microprose sue the entity? :P 18:59:35 <andythenorth> oof 18:59:54 <glx> not microprose 19:00:33 <nielsm> where does the name micropsose come from, actually... were they formed to produce prose for micros? 19:00:48 <nielsm> I suppose program text is sort of prose 19:01:27 <andythenorth> wikipedia doesn't know 19:01:34 <TrueBrain> you sound surprised 19:01:38 <andythenorth> but the bloke who fixed my windows used to work at Microprose 19:01:48 <andythenorth> Chipping Sodbury is near me 19:01:55 <TrueBrain> sounds like a terrible sales-pitch 19:02:02 <TrueBrain> "I used to work for a game company; now I fix your Windows" 19:02:07 <TrueBrain> or worse: 19:02:09 <TrueBrain> "I used to work for a game company; now I fix your windows" 19:02:09 <andythenorth> wrong kind of windows :P 19:02:15 <andythenorth> the vehicles called 'Yate' are named after where my I take my kids to football 19:02:17 <andythenorth> all the lolz 19:02:47 <TrueBrain> soccer or stupid-ballgame? 19:02:48 <andythenorth> anyway, probably Germany or Holland for a foundation 19:02:49 <andythenorth> soccer 19:03:00 <TrueBrain> good :P 19:03:32 <nielsm> handegg 19:04:20 <andythenorth> I like all the original names 19:04:51 <andythenorth> who likely has more paperwork, germany or netherlands? 19:05:32 <nielsm> no idea, I live in neither place 19:06:06 <andythenorth> http://ifross.org/ 19:07:28 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:08:16 <andythenorth> hmm, the foundations I found so far are in USA 19:09:04 <andythenorth> UK stuff I can understand, https://www.resourcecentre.org.uk/information/legal-structures-for-community-and-voluntary-groups/#membership 19:09:05 <TrueBrain> I would suggest, that if we want something like this, we find someone with a bit more knowledge about it 19:09:19 <andythenorth> +lots 19:09:31 <andythenorth> we could....pay a layer :o 19:09:32 <andythenorth> oof 19:09:34 <nielsm> a union in denmark has very few formal requirements 19:09:35 <andythenorth> lawyer 19:09:42 <andythenorth> typing 19:10:13 <TrueBrain> in The Netherlands you would need a "stichting", which would be ~500 euro to setup; you need to deposit yearly financial bla too 19:11:28 <andythenorth> this is what I found earlier, they advise open source projects https://www.softwarefreedom.org/services/ 19:11:54 <andythenorth> they are linked to this http://www.freesoftwaresupport.org/ 19:13:05 <andythenorth> hmm they're all email-contactable, no twitter :( 19:13:10 <andythenorth> I guess twitter is not very FOSS 19:15:48 <peter1138> Heh 19:16:05 <TrueBrain> owh no, a peter1138! :) 19:17:03 <nielsm> forming a non-profit union in denmark, that does not conduct business, has literally no other requirements than writing a constitution/charter and having a board of members 19:17:32 <nielsm> can optionally be VAT registered and get a business unit identification number 19:18:00 <TrueBrain> if we would be to make such entity, in my opinion, it should be VAT registered, and all assets should be moved into it 19:18:12 <TrueBrain> reducing the bus-factor :D 19:18:20 <TrueBrain> (well, increasing, I guess :P) 19:18:27 <nielsm> "improving" 19:18:30 <TrueBrain> :D 19:18:50 <TrueBrain> but yeah, same here in The Netherlands; with the only difference it needs a notary to approve it 19:18:55 <TrueBrain> there are plenty of services doing that 19:18:59 <TrueBrain> but .. ~500 euro :P 19:19:17 <TrueBrain> fun thing is, it becomes a legal entity on its own 19:19:46 <TrueBrain> so members cannot be held responsible, unless great negligence 19:21:23 <andythenorth> limited liability 19:21:38 <andythenorth> eh so we have some funds though? 19:21:55 <andythenorth> 500 Euro is quite a lot 19:22:21 <TrueBrain> answers that question with 1 answer is impossible :P 19:22:24 <TrueBrain> yes, it is a lot 19:22:27 <TrueBrain> yes, we do have those funds 19:22:34 <andythenorth> can do a limited company in UK for £12.48 :P https://www.yourcompanyformations.co.uk/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1s_2tf6e5QIVBEPTCh0nEgHnEAAYASAAEgKf-fD_BwE 19:23:08 <andythenorth> £250 annually to pay accountant 19:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think we want a limited liability. we want no liability 19:23:23 <andythenorth> hmm I could file accounts, but that can cause fines 19:23:31 <andythenorth> :P 19:23:40 <TrueBrain> and this is the biggest issue with these things 19:23:46 * andythenorth has not actually been fined, but has watched other people getting fined 19:23:47 <TrueBrain> we all somewhat know the law of our own country 19:23:55 <TrueBrain> comparing between countries .... well ... forget about it :P 19:23:59 <andythenorth> yes 19:24:05 <peter1138> I'd advise against UK. 19:24:11 <peter1138> Cos we're fucking dumb. 19:24:24 <peter1138> And probably not all that united for too long. 19:24:48 <TrueBrain> I agree with all of the above :P 19:24:54 <nielsm> second scottish war of independence? 19:25:42 * andythenorth invents Brexit GS 19:25:59 <andythenorth> you build the map, then at random point, 80% of it becomes inaccessible 19:26:07 <andythenorth> then a few years later you lose Scotland too :P 19:26:23 * andythenorth is neutral on Brexit, but the lolz are strong 19:26:53 <andythenorth> well do we actually want a foundation? 19:26:56 <TrueBrain> 80%? You mean 2%? :P 19:26:57 <andythenorth> it seems lik....work 19:27:10 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: naturally the GS takes the British side 19:27:17 <andythenorth> it's a British game after all 19:27:36 <andythenorth> :P 19:27:39 <Eddi|zuHause> why do i always pick the most impossible track layout to build? :p 19:27:39 <TrueBrain> a foundation would solve a ton of things, but yes, it needs someone who wants to invest his/her time in it to figure out the right thing to do 19:28:49 <andythenorth> I know about companies; foundations not so much 19:29:20 <andythenorth> we need a friendly lawyer somewhere in Europe 19:31:50 <andythenorth> I have done a tweet, that will solve it right? 19:32:08 <TrueBrain> link or it didnt happen 19:32:35 <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/andyfacts/status/1184190125724569611 19:32:45 <andythenorth> we could....write a news post asking for help? 19:32:49 <andythenorth> and we could...do a forum post? 19:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> as for an organization: we might be able to do a https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verein#Eingetragener_Verein 19:33:28 <andythenorth> I know Jon Stahl, but Plone is US https://plone.org/foundation/meetings/membership/2010-membership-meeting/nominations/jon-stahl 19:34:13 <andythenorth> do we have a bank account, or does orudge hold it in trust? 19:34:43 <andythenorth> banking usually has to be in the jurisdiction of the entity, or it's even more awful to deal with than usual 19:34:50 <andythenorth> maybe we should put all funds in BTC 19:34:52 <TrueBrain> as we have no legal entity, within the EU, it is impossible to hold a bank account 19:34:55 <TrueBrain> so silly question andythenorth :) 19:35:30 <andythenorth> sometimes a person operates a personal account on behalf of a project :D 19:35:47 <andythenorth> but with a dedicated account number and statements etc 19:36:25 <TrueBrain> I think nobody has ever bothered to ask 19:37:04 <TrueBrain> cool, GitHub Actions also run the GitHub Actions that are new in a PR, but without access. At least that allows you to test-run it :D 19:38:54 <glx> but not from fork I think 19:39:07 <nielsm> Eddi|zuHause: that's probably very similar to a Forening in denmark 19:39:12 <glx> at least workflows in PR from forks are not executed 19:39:41 <glx> to prevent possible secrets leaks by nasty PR 19:39:56 <nielsm> (I'm not sure why the da.wikipedia Forening page links to Verband on de.wikipedia, and Verein on de.wikipedia links to Klub on da.wikipedia, they don't seem to be quite equivalent) 19:39:57 <Eddi|zuHause> nielsm: from what i can gather, you have to have at least 7 members, and declare that you have no economical interest 19:40:38 <TrueBrain> glx: no, that has changed; it is just executed without any secrets 19:40:50 <glx> oh it's recent then 19:41:01 <TrueBrain> 2 weeks ago or so I see the first post about it 19:41:07 <TrueBrain> I could be totally mistaken btw, this is hard to test 19:41:14 <TrueBrain> but they are working hard to make this better/easier :D 19:41:21 <TrueBrain> soon, you can just 'echo' annotations 19:41:33 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/actions/toolkit/issues/186 <- this will be fun :D 19:42:19 <nielsm> commit checker automatically pointing out where you indented wrong? 19:42:26 <TrueBrain> exactly 19:42:55 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/catcodec/pull/1 and https://github.com/glx22/catcodec/pull/1 are identical, but the workflow is executed only on my fork 19:44:03 <TrueBrain> glx: hmm .. guess you are right :) 19:44:32 <TrueBrain> meh; I will wait for the annotation thing to land. Trying to work around this now is just silly 19:45:58 <andythenorth> hey look, we have a twitter https://twitter.com/OpenTTDNews 19:46:09 <nnyby> lol... my macbook air for work just broke today, due to their new t2 "security" chip. apple likes to make things difficult for everybody. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Apple-T2-Blocks-Linux-UEFI 19:47:07 <nnyby> im sure somebody at FOSDEM in february can help with the openttd foundation, but that's a few months away. 19:47:07 <nielsm> andythenorth someone's been forgetting to post on it? :) 19:47:17 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: yes, but nobody is doing the things he should be doing with it :D 19:47:28 <TrueBrain> we lack an active PR person :) 19:48:18 <andythenorth> nnyby: don't you just change the security settings? 19:49:22 <glx> I wish they add templates in workflows (like with azure pipelines) 19:50:53 <TrueBrain> they exist, but possibly not in the way you expected 19:50:58 <TrueBrain> in the same repo, you can add a GitHub Action 19:51:10 <TrueBrain> which is a template, in the sense you can call them from multiple places 19:51:13 <TrueBrain> with different parameters 19:51:24 <TrueBrain> a GitHub Action doesn't have to be a Docker, basically 19:51:26 <glx> yeah but seems silly to write an action just to rebase 19:51:43 <andythenorth> hmm, nope no linux on T2 macs, and a kitten died somewhere 19:51:44 <glx> it's docker or JS 19:52:29 <andythenorth> on the upside, buy a not-mac, save 10-20% Apple tax on equivalent hardware, and have a keyboard that actually works 19:52:31 <nnyby> andythenorth: apparently not... our IT person has been on the phone with apple trying to get data out of this hard drive for a while. the laptop boots up but doesn't accept any passwords, and can't mount the drive remotely. 19:53:01 <andythenorth> oh yeah, there's no way to get the data out without the T2 19:53:03 <andythenorth> that's the point 19:53:19 <andythenorth> I mean, it's Apple, so probably there's a flaw, but it's not discovered yet 19:53:24 <glx> even for commit-checker action, I think it's overkill to do a docker action for it 19:53:50 <glx> but I'm still trying to find how JS action works 19:54:00 <andythenorth> if the T2 has failed and lost the password, the mac is now landfill material 19:55:05 <nnyby> i don't have much patience for these sorts of over-engineered security systems, which no doubt have countless flaws themselves. it causes more problems than it solves. i don't care who knows my password. 19:55:27 <andythenorth> it's a massive selling point for me 19:55:36 <andythenorth> it saves a shitload of paperwork 19:55:59 * andythenorth waits for twitter to rain answers 19:56:04 <glx> basically we just need to run git commands and a python script 19:56:30 <nnyby> interesting, well that's why it exists i suppose >_< if there's a market and helps some people with their jobs, that's cool 19:56:43 *** Wormnest__ has quit IRC 19:56:52 <TrueBrain> glx: the commit checker should be a GitHub Action in my opinion, now I have worked some more with it 19:56:53 <andythenorth> eh someone posted to reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/did7lo/help_wanted_setting_up_the_openttd_foundation_in/ 19:56:58 <TrueBrain> that makes it very useful to use by others 19:57:08 <glx> yes it will be an action 19:57:17 <glx> but maybe not a docker one 19:57:31 <TrueBrain> what-ever floats your boat :) 19:57:46 <TrueBrain> the JS style feels like overkill to me :) 19:57:51 <andythenorth> do I have to join reddit? :( 19:57:52 <andythenorth> oof 19:58:44 <TrueBrain> the only possible reason to ask your question, is because of a threat 19:58:45 <andythenorth> Wolf01: can you go to this and find out how to set up a foundation, kthxbai https://plone.org/events/plone-conference-2019 19:58:50 <TrueBrain> that tells more about the world than anything else :D 19:58:57 <andythenorth> tells more about happy redditors 19:59:49 <TrueBrain> glx: owh, I see now they even suggest to use the JS, as it doesn't use Docker 19:59:58 <TrueBrain> guess I am still catching up to this train .. 20:00:04 <TrueBrain> it used to be docker-only :P 20:00:22 <TrueBrain> glx: remember they supply bootstraps to write your tool in 20:00:26 <TrueBrain> might help 20:00:28 <glx> docker is overkill for simple scripts 20:00:28 <andythenorth> Amsterdam TrueBrain? https://plone.org/foundation/meetings/membership/2019-membership-meeting/nominations/paul-roeland 20:00:39 <nielsm> andythenorth: you just post a reply to your own tweet clarifying the purpose 20:00:42 <TrueBrain> glx: so is the code you need for JavaScript :D 20:01:02 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:01:08 <glx> yeah, but it will run faster than building a docker 20:01:16 <glx> I think 20:01:19 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:01:21 <TrueBrain> glx: "faster" is a silly thing to optimize for in this case :D 20:01:32 <TrueBrain> the Docker can be pushed to the GitHub Package Registry (GPR) 20:01:48 <TrueBrain> I think it is better to write something you know, and others can read 20:01:54 <TrueBrain> Docker .. JavaScript .. I don't care :P 20:02:10 <nielsm> should have called it the Github Docker/Package Repository 20:02:14 <nielsm> for confusion's sake 20:03:10 <andythenorth> https://twitter.com/andyfacts/status/1184197965465952256 20:03:25 <TrueBrain> https://help.github.com/en/articles/creating-a-docker-container-action vs https://help.github.com/en/articles/creating-a-javascript-action ... not sure they differ that much tbh 20:04:01 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: what is up with the stars? 20:04:23 <andythenorth> they are supposed to be bullets, but I fail at Twitter? 20:04:29 <TrueBrain> glx: possibly nice for the learning curve to write both the JS and Docker one :D 20:04:43 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: at one point you have "* *" :P 20:04:49 <andythenorth> oh yeah I'm a clown 20:04:50 <andythenorth> oops 20:04:59 <andythenorth> I'll delete it and make it better 20:05:14 <TrueBrain> :D 20:05:15 <TrueBrain> no need :P 20:05:18 <TrueBrain> just pulling your leg 20:06:13 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:06:33 <andythenorth> fixed https://twitter.com/andyfacts/status/1184198827827437570 20:06:37 <andythenorth> less clown 20:06:48 <nielsm> fancy bullets! 20:07:30 <TrueBrain> w00p 20:08:21 <andythenorth> president of Plone https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulroeland/?originalSubdomain=nl 20:08:25 <TrueBrain> okay, I will continue my exploration of GitHub Actions once the annotations are there .. hopefully soon :D 20:08:27 <andythenorth> can't find him on Twitter though 20:08:36 <andythenorth> oh noes! he's a sysadmin 20:09:15 <TrueBrain> I am off; night guys 20:09:23 <nielsm> I should sleep too 20:09:32 <nielsm> my birds are getting angry at shadows and keyboard noises 20:09:42 <nielsm> gn 20:10:42 <andythenorth> angry birds 20:17:43 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:25:20 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:41:23 *** supermop_pdx has quit IRC 20:50:34 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:50:41 *** Fliedo has joined #openttd 20:58:11 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 21:01:34 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:30:38 *** firewire1394 has quit IRC 21:45:32 *** firewire1394 has joined #openttd 21:51:39 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:00:33 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:16:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 22:50:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... game crashed 22:55:47 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:56:44 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 23:30:39 *** firewire1394 has quit IRC 23:58:49 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd