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00:03:06 *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd 00:54:21 *** Wormnest__ has quit IRC 01:30:36 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:02:28 *** gelignite has quit IRC 02:14:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 03:07:58 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 03:18:56 *** glx has quit IRC 03:45:39 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:49:02 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:25:35 *** RedAero has quit IRC 05:22:10 *** Smedles has quit IRC 05:23:25 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 06:55:49 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 07:36:21 *** Smedles has quit IRC 07:45:28 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 08:14:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:18:56 *** Smedles has quit IRC 08:23:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:24:48 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 08:53:36 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:18:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 09:50:31 <TrueBrain> why oh why does it seems impossible for me to contact a cloud provider ... none of their sales ever replied to me .. 09:50:55 <TrueBrain> this seems to be an endless loop of being ignored .. I wonder if it is personal 09:51:22 <andythenorth> commodity business innit 09:51:41 <andythenorth> I have a famiily member at rackspace 09:52:10 <TrueBrain> take 2 weeks ago, I called Azure Sales .. they promised a reply within 3 to 5 days .. that was 10 days ago 09:52:21 <TrueBrain> like .. what ... like .. you don't care? what is going on there 09:52:31 <andythenorth> I'm told that Rackspace focus on m+ accounts, and try not to get involved with commodity cloud 09:52:38 <andythenorth> not sure about the bigger providers 09:52:49 <andythenorth> the downside of cheap is no service :P 09:52:58 <TrueBrain> yeah ... I am pretty sure a sales person doesn't want to talk to a ~1000 euro a year person 09:53:02 <TrueBrain> waste of their time 09:53:12 <TrueBrain> but the company should force that, as it is really bad for your company if you don't reply at all 09:53:24 <andythenorth> _1 09:53:25 <andythenorth> +1 09:53:43 <TrueBrain> as that basically means I want nothing to do with you, as a cloud provider :P 09:53:50 <andythenorth> well if you're bored, there's always the README :P https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7807 09:54:02 <TrueBrain> bored is currently not the state of mind :) 09:54:22 <andythenorth> hungover is mine 09:54:26 <TrueBrain> but I do have a migration that should be done before the end of the year tbfh, and DigitalOcean can't do what we are used to do :P 09:54:38 <TrueBrain> I also need to find a way to have better mail hosting tbh 09:54:45 <TrueBrain> as the spam is really really annoying 09:54:51 <andythenorth> do we need mail? :P 09:55:02 <TrueBrain> at least 1 mailbox for info@, yes 09:55:16 <TrueBrain> I wonder if I can use Exchange Online Plan 1 for that, and just forward all the other addresses 09:55:38 * andythenorth is so out of the loop on email 09:55:45 <TrueBrain> same .. 09:55:49 <TrueBrain> I just know it is expensive as fuck 09:55:56 <TrueBrain> would cost 60 euro a month to host an email for all devs :P 09:57:21 <andythenorth> ouch 10:16:20 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:16:26 <TrueBrain> https://help.github.com/en/github/supporting-the-open-source-community-with-github-sponsors/sponsoring-a-developer <- might be a nice to use this instead of our current Donate page? 10:19:26 <andythenorth> planetmaker: did you have access to coop donations? 10:19:46 <andythenorth> I thought I had a recurring paypal for sponsoring coop, but no record in paypal :P 10:23:55 <TrueBrain> glx is going to like this: GitHub Actions now support caching :) 10:27:05 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:15:18 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 11:34:20 *** arikover has joined #openttd 11:56:14 *** Progman has quit IRC 11:59:31 *** bradw has joined #openttd 12:02:49 *** bradw has left #openttd 12:20:31 <andythenorth> quiet eh? 12:21:29 <TrueBrain> I blame LordAro 12:22:14 <LordAro> i'm making lunch 12:22:40 <TrueBrain> make me some too plz 12:23:41 <TrueBrain> I wonder when my Google Stadia ships .. 12:23:52 <TrueBrain> they are not really communicating about that 12:24:30 <TrueBrain> I have to read in the news about launchdates etc 12:25:52 <TrueBrain> order says it should be here before the 25th .. we shall see :) 12:28:20 <milek7> google gamepad? 12:38:23 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 12:40:46 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 12:48:04 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:50:50 <andythenorth> I broke all my newgrfs :) 12:51:00 <andythenorth> and until some PRs move, I'm not writing any more docs :P 12:51:31 <andythenorth> if anyone enjoys 'git describe', I could unbreak my newgrfs with help :P 12:58:32 <frosch123> https://techcultivation.org/ <- i learnt this week about this one 12:59:07 <frosch123> is the ottd foundation thingie still a thing? 13:02:24 <TrueBrain> the diversity in their team is not very high :P 13:03:45 <TrueBrain> mostly we need a legal entity to battle stores .. like getting on Steam, booting people from Microsoft Store that ask money for this free product, etc :P Not sure they can help with that .. their site is not really .. clear what they do :D 13:04:37 <frosch123> isn't that covered by "asset stewardship"? 13:04:57 <TrueBrain> possibly; like I said, they are not really clear in what they do :D 13:05:02 <TrueBrain> just some vague words 13:05:12 <frosch123> anyway, are we serious enough to ask them? 13:05:37 <TrueBrain> "We are ready for your project if you need help with grants and contracts." 13:05:51 <frosch123> i learned about them from a lightning talk from cccamp, so not much more info there :) 13:06:50 <TrueBrain> I simply can't find enough information to know what it is they really do :) 13:08:03 <TrueBrain> but yeah, ask everyone how we should setup a legal entity of some sorts to both cover our ass, don't tie it to a single individual, and can still do stuff with like Steam, etc. 13:08:53 <TrueBrain> btw, today I asked AWS in their open source activation promotional credits, if we can have some, to seriously look into AWS 13:09:06 <frosch123> https://youtu.be/5F39sWoICqo?t=7618 <- that's the 5 minute talk 13:09:35 <frosch123> hmm, bbbl 13:15:05 <TrueBrain> so they are the legal entity, on which you can piggyback, so to say 13:15:08 <TrueBrain> not sure that would help in our case 13:15:15 <TrueBrain> but droppnig them an email to ask, never hurts I guess? 13:26:08 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:39:33 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:16:33 <andythenorth> how dangerous are shell commands? :P 15:16:52 <TrueBrain> curl .. | sudo bash - 15:16:54 <TrueBrain> nothing wrong with that 15:17:06 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 15:17:21 <andythenorth> I need the equivalent results of this, but for git not hg https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/blob/master/bin/hg-info 15:17:28 <andythenorth> I understand 60% of Alberth's code 15:17:44 <andythenorth> I could just write my own git version from scratch, but I worry I do danger 15:17:44 <TrueBrain> holy crap, what does that do?! :o 15:17:58 <andythenorth> and if I port the hg to git with no clue, I could just leave danger or broken 15:18:12 <andythenorth> it gets some rev stuff that the newgrf spec demands 15:18:18 <TrueBrain> *shrug* 15:18:22 <andythenorth> tbh, I never really understand how grfs are versioned 15:18:25 <TrueBrain> pretty sure nobody can help you approaching this problem from this end 15:18:30 <TrueBrain> possibly better to indicate what you want solved 15:18:34 <TrueBrain> instead of how someone else solved it :P 15:19:00 <andythenorth> probly, for most of what I need git rev-list --count master 15:19:10 <andythenorth> which I can call with subprocess :P 15:19:40 <TrueBrain> so do that already :P 15:19:46 <TrueBrain> you have been on this for what, 4 months now? :P 15:19:56 <andythenorth> longer 15:19:59 <andythenorth> I keep avoiding it 15:20:58 <andythenorth> this one is such a reliable solution :P https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/master/bin/git-info 15:21:55 <TrueBrain> no no, that is all wrong 15:21:56 <TrueBrain> 2 2 2 2 2 15:21:58 <TrueBrain> much better 15:22:09 <andythenorth> math.random() 15:22:32 <andythenorth> let's hide from this and do docs instead 15:22:40 <andythenorth> why is my README edit awful? 15:22:41 * andythenorth looks 15:23:00 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7807 15:23:30 <andythenorth> what's the savegame policy? 100% guarantee? 15:23:52 <TrueBrain> 100% best effort, accepting fixes in PRs :P 15:24:12 <TrueBrain> right, new MasterServer and Updater should work 15:24:19 <TrueBrain> I only need a database, and a webfrontend 15:24:31 <TrueBrain> guess I should make an interface for the database, so I can have an in-memory to test 15:24:33 <TrueBrain> sounds sane 15:25:30 <andythenorth> hmm that review is outdated 15:25:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde 15:28:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde 15:29:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde 15:30:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKm 15:32:41 <andythenorth> eh, all reviews somehow responded to :P 15:32:43 <andythenorth> result https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/f904bd039dfac82bfb820189e0fbddc7958795ee/README.md 15:33:06 <andythenorth> ship it, there is minimal future debt in documentation, it's not code 15:33:25 <andythenorth> docs debt tends to carry the cost right now, any improvement is usually a win 15:33:30 <andythenorth> perfection is not essential 15:36:08 <andythenorth> LordAro suspiciously absent 15:36:23 * andythenorth wonders about flooding 15:43:28 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 15:44:20 *** Wormnest__ has joined #openttd 15:45:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKB 15:51:01 *** Wormnest__ has quit IRC 15:51:17 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:53:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth updated pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeEde 15:53:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeVKX 16:07:56 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 16:24:23 <andythenorth> probably done then :P ^ 16:24:32 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:24:32 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:31:17 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 16:44:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc approved pull request #7807: Doc: revised README to be more helpful to casual GitHub visitors https://git.io/JeV6D 16:50:31 <LordAro> andythenorth: michi_cc: am in the middle of upgrading my VPS right now, would like to have a read through before merging 16:50:34 <LordAro> if you can wait 16:50:39 <LordAro> andythenorth: no flooding here, just very rainy 17:04:54 *** LordAro has quit IRC 17:06:17 *** LordAro has joined #openttd 17:14:19 *** Borg has joined #openttd 17:14:21 <Borg> hooooooi 17:14:41 <Borg> can anyone explain me (basically) how network stuff works here? 17:14:59 <Borg> does server do pathfinding and inform client about result? 17:15:21 <Borg> so if I do pathfinder changes (server side only).. all will still works? 17:19:28 <frosch123> no, the gamestate is update deterministically on all clients 17:19:38 <frosch123> the network only transmit player actions 17:19:52 <frosch123> you can read some more in docs/desyncs.md or similar 17:19:53 <Borg> damn... DAMN... 17:20:18 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/docs/desync.md#11-openttd-multiplayer-architecture 17:20:27 <Borg> thx, got clone locally 17:20:44 <Borg> yep.. seens it.. 17:21:59 <Borg> good bye my more determinstic pathfinder ;( 17:23:22 <LordAro> "more deterministic" 17:23:27 <LordAro> it's already very deterministic 17:23:28 <Borg> so, for now.. the only way to control penalty.. is to add PBS back signal... 17:23:52 <Borg> LordAro: from with standpoint? state machine? or user? :) 17:24:01 <Borg> first yes.. second. not really 17:24:59 <Borg> I still struggle to understand.. why adding single block signal (oneway) changes the pathfinder behavior... 17:25:08 <Borg> its green.. no penalty.. yet.. trains preffer that path.. 17:25:15 <LordAro> Borg: the former. anything that isn't results in a desync (linked above) 17:25:18 <Borg> if I remove it.. path is no longer preffered 17:26:17 <Borg> okey... I think I understand now.. 17:26:33 <glx> line "value" changes when you add/remove signals 17:26:48 <Borg> I forgot to calculate whole path path to the desination.. and look_ahead 17:28:33 <Borg> okey... seems I need to give up my pride of not using back PBS signals as path influencers.. they seems to be best 17:28:40 <Borg> and completly no CPU penalty.. 17:29:02 <Borg> too bad there is no "dummy" cost sign.. or sth ;) 17:53:06 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 18:20:27 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:23:36 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:29:09 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 18:29:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 18:36:01 *** tokai has quit IRC 19:09:31 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:56:51 <andythenorth> is cat? 20:04:13 <Eddi|zuHause> miau. 20:15:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS 20:16:38 <glx> hmm I could also my fix for regression on windows, and call the PR "Windows related stuff" 20:16:52 <glx> *also include 20:22:44 <andythenorth> yes? 20:23:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 updated pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable https://git.io/JeaNS 20:28:46 <glx> btw not only cx_freeze was not doing what we expected, it also prevented using venv 20:29:06 <LordAro> glx: heh 20:30:01 <glx> with the original setup.py it's impossible to do "pip install -e ." in venv, it always wants to install globally 20:30:25 <glx> --user also fails 20:30:38 <glx> without cx_freeze it just works 20:36:57 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 20:50:22 <andythenorth> what else needs done before it's merged? 20:50:34 <andythenorth> nml is not savegame critical 20:50:42 <andythenorth> if we broke something, we just fix and release again 20:51:52 <glx> for me it's usable 20:52:03 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:52:57 <glx> I have https://github.com/glx22/nml/compare/pyinstaller...glx22:actions on top of it (output visible on https://github.com/glx22/nml/commit/08162aaa58b42f1cf2b4e9ff7e05d8b66621eadd/checks?check_suite_id=303535404) 20:53:37 <andythenorth> I'll just pull it and test 20:53:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro closed issue #39: (AttributeError) "module 'PIL.Image' has no attribute 'VERSION'". https://git.io/fjEFl 20:53:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/Je0t3 20:54:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro merged pull request #55: Codechange: use pyinstaller to generate standalone executable (and other mostly windows related changes) https://git.io/JeaNS 20:54:12 <LordAro> eh. 20:54:20 <LordAro> we can fix it in post 20:54:32 *** Borg has quit IRC 20:54:37 <glx> actions says it works 20:54:41 <andythenorth> that phrase was banned on my film shoots LordAro :P 20:54:49 <glx> so it should work you everyone 20:54:53 <andythenorth> also there's no cmd-z undo when you break a camera :P 20:57:24 <andythenorth> pillow fails to build for me 20:57:27 <andythenorth> using python setup.py install 20:57:43 <andythenorth> I don't usually bother with setup.py 20:58:06 <andythenorth> it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers 20:58:47 <andythenorth> pillow builds fine from pip install 21:01:49 <andythenorth> so what's left for this? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/issues/42 21:03:21 <andythenorth> any updates for README? https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/master/README.md 21:05:46 <glx> <andythenorth> it's zlib missing headers bollocks, might be mac specific, Apple tend to break headers <-- seems to be local to your machine 21:06:19 <andythenorth> yes 21:06:24 <andythenorth> it happens often 21:06:51 <andythenorth> somehow, with whatever magic, pip has the path to the headers 21:06:56 <andythenorth> so pip pillow is fine 21:07:19 <glx> because https://github.com/glx22/nml/runs/295911648 has no issue, but it's also using pip 21:08:43 <glx> well it's a hidden "setup.py develop" 21:09:22 <glx> and that's magically builds the extension too 21:12:24 <andythenorth> I'm not going to worry about setup.py failing on mac 21:12:36 <andythenorth> there's a solution, and if other people report it...meh 21:13:17 <glx> the action tells me it works on mac anyway 21:15:21 <andythenorth> oh you have a mac Azure build? 21:15:22 <andythenorth> neat 21:16:01 <andythenorth> multiple pythons also 21:16:03 <andythenorth> this is good :) 21:16:39 <andythenorth> so we just need a docs update (windows binary instructions, update README) 21:16:41 <andythenorth> then a release 21:17:28 <frosch123> are the artefacts of the azure build actually stored anywhere? 21:17:40 <glx> build standalone, and artifacts are just temporary in this workflow 21:17:54 <glx> I just tested stuff 21:18:09 <glx> the idea would be to write a release workflow 21:18:52 <glx> generating/publishing on pypi 21:19:21 <glx> and building the standalone windows exe and publish in the github tag 21:20:27 <glx> or wherever it must go 21:20:52 <andythenorth> I had azure pushing to S3 bucket for grf 21:20:55 <frosch123> hmm, we never had automatic publish on pypi :) 21:21:01 <andythenorth> we need some generic place to publish artefacts 21:45:19 <LordAro> could just use the github releases page 21:52:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] glx22 opened pull request #56: Add: regression workflow for PR and push to master https://git.io/JeVDh 21:56:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] matthijskooijman commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/JeVyv 22:21:36 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 22:33:08 <TrueBrain> glx: did you see GitHub Actions now support caching? :D 22:33:20 <glx> yes 22:33:36 <TrueBrain> means we can finally cache shit like venvs etc :) 22:33:40 <TrueBrain> makes builds so much faster! 22:33:46 <andythenorth> LordAro: README merge? o_O 22:34:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:49:17 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:55:50 *** Samu has quit IRC 22:58:04 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:09:19 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> we should make a new rule: if you bug developers about merging your PR, it gets rejected :p 23:17:19 <glx> lol 23:34:19 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: historically, that is the only way to get something merged :p 23:34:49 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: i don't see the problem :p 23:36:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] ConiKost commented on pull request #54: Fix #39: Add compatibility with >=pillow-7.0.0 https://git.io/JeV9J 23:54:05 *** Flygon has joined #openttd