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02:27:18 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:42:27 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:45:51 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:59:45 *** glx has quit IRC 03:48:35 *** rotterdxm has quit IRC 03:54:09 *** heffer has quit IRC 04:14:31 *** heffer has joined #openttd 04:32:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvjJ0 04:48:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvjJ9 05:04:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] floodious commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvjJp 05:56:53 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 06:08:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:32:43 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 06:34:16 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:40:14 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:46:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8082: Fix #8081: Check for waypoints when removing docking tiles https://git.io/JvhNB 06:46:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8081: Crash log when placing ship depot https://git.io/Jvhdi 06:51:12 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 06:53:11 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:54:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:57:46 <andythenorth> o/ 06:59:31 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:05:10 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 07:06:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:12:35 <andythenorth> lime kilns https://www.flickr.com/photos/muddybootsuk/25904010167/in/photostream/ 07:45:43 <TrueBrain> CSS finished? :D 07:52:31 <TrueBrain> I found so many eggs in my fridge .. unbelievable. Like I put them there or something 07:55:21 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:10:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjIl 08:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> * andythenorth wonders about industries with 8 required input cargos <-- use it very very sparingly. like one single industry. in one single economy. 08:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what? no. must have been the easterbunny 08:37:52 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:43:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjLm 08:44:13 *** larsw has joined #openttd 08:44:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb 08:53:48 <andythenorth> TrueBrain did you hoard all the eggs? 08:55:12 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 08:55:25 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 08:55:38 <TrueBrain> YES, YES I DID \o/ :D 08:56:10 *** Samu has joined #openttd 08:56:20 <Samu> hi 08:57:05 <Samu> great fix glx, better than I imagined :) 09:00:31 *** adikt- has joined #openttd 09:02:53 *** adikt has quit IRC 09:08:19 * andythenorth plays Blitz 09:08:30 <andythenorth> player nicknames are in inverse proportion to skill 09:08:47 <andythenorth> 'pro' and 'killer' always have < 48% (global average) WR 09:08:59 <andythenorth> 'Iamnoob' is guaranteed purple player (70%) 09:09:05 <andythenorth> dunning kruger 09:23:11 *** Xaroth65 has quit IRC 09:41:38 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Aswn opened issue #8083: Add currency Unit - Indian Rupee https://git.io/Jvjtc 10:23:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SamuXarick commented on pull request #8047: Add: Buttons to select script profile in the AI/GS configuration window https://git.io/JvjqO 10:23:29 *** tokai has joined #openttd 10:23:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 10:27:58 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> player nicknames are in inverse proportion to skill <- rule of L 10:28:32 <Wolf01> Applies to height, cars, names, money 10:28:33 <andythenorth> "xX_Pro_Winner_Assassin_Sniper_Kill_Xx" 10:28:36 <andythenorth> rushes to front, dies 10:28:47 <andythenorth> it's totemic 10:28:56 <andythenorth> we name ourselves what we want to be, not what we are 10:28:59 <andythenorth> I am not in the north :P 10:29:30 <Wolf01> xX_ _Xx is even more explicit of skillness 10:29:34 <SpComb> what's your latitude 10:29:36 * andythenorth doesn't particularly want to be in the north 10:29:41 <andythenorth> Wolf01 you are Northern? 10:29:46 <andythenorth> but yet you are south of me? 10:30:11 <andythenorth> 51 deg N SpComb 10:30:11 <Wolf01> I live nearest to the equator than you, but both are in the northern emisphere 10:30:22 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:30:47 * SpComb 60°N 10:31:22 <Wolf01> 45°N 10:49:15 <LordAro> 54°N 10:51:13 <TrueBrain> 51.8302697 N :P 10:55:00 <milek7> https://xkcd.com/2170/ 10:55:32 <SpComb> are you holding your phone in your left or right hand, facing what heading? 10:56:00 <LordAro> Wally is somewhere on this line 10:56:18 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:58:25 <SpComb> raises the question of what reference point you use to define where exactly "you" are as a specific point on the surface of the earth 10:58:46 <SpComb> and when your coordinate reference system was updated to take tectonic plate shifts into account? 10:58:55 <LordAro> Dordrecht & Nijmegen are the bigger Dutch cities approximately along that line 10:58:59 <LordAro> in case you were wondering :p 11:09:13 <nielsm> https://0x0.st/iSRj.png maybe I went overboard with the float stuff 11:09:45 <nielsm> but I can't think of a good way to keep baseline alignment between a floated button and the main text that isn't massively complex 11:11:16 <LordAro> :) 11:16:43 <andythenorth> SpComb there is a detailed document from UK Ordnance Survey about co-ordinate systems 11:16:55 <andythenorth> many things to consider, including effect of tides 11:19:06 * andythenorth goes back in his hole 11:20:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7896: Feature: Push-buttons on storybook pages https://git.io/JvjmD 11:26:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: lol @ "approx" .. I give you this very exact value, and you come back with "approx" 11:26:39 <TrueBrain> I am not saying I am dissapointed, but ... 11:28:57 <LordAro> i was just clicking around in google maps, couldn't be bothered to go into any greater detail :p 11:31:51 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:45:34 *** k-man__ has joined #openttd 11:52:08 *** k-man_ has quit IRC 11:56:07 <TrueBrain> :D 11:57:19 <andythenorth> well 11:57:22 <andythenorth> I should do chores 12:07:59 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:12:04 <Samu> Páscoa! 12:29:35 <TrueBrain> ugh, tusd remains very unfriendly; but there are not many alternatives, sadly 12:29:42 <TrueBrain> I now finally have it up and running 12:29:53 <TrueBrain> but ... 12:30:08 <TrueBrain> it is returning http URLs instead of https, and I cannot change settings for that :D 12:30:17 <andythenorth> oof 12:32:43 *** arikover has quit IRC 12:35:58 <TrueBrain> $ python -m ape upload 12:35:58 <TrueBrain> 2020-04-12 14:35:24 ERROR Uploading failed with validation errors: 12:36:03 <TrueBrain> 2020-04-12 14:35:24 ERROR - File 'test.txt' failed validation 12:36:03 <TrueBrain> 2020-04-12 14:35:24 ERROR - test.txt: Could not recognise this file; possibly the extension is wrong? 12:36:04 <TrueBrain> :D 12:47:42 <Wolf01> https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1972187381 LOL: "the while background (which has been my main reason for not playing the game at all" 12:48:26 <Wolf01> People have strange priorities 12:59:24 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:59:24 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what's worse is that the people with strange priorities are also often the loudest ones 13:25:26 <TrueBrain> so close .... my pod cannot write a file on S3 .. so sad! 13:33:51 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 14:00:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/Jvjs7 14:03:35 <frosch123> hmm, i wonder what's the purpose of the swagger-generated client 14:04:15 <frosch123> i am only passing json structs between backend and jinja template, so i think i do not need anything of the swagger stuff 14:04:32 <TrueBrain> validation :) 14:05:09 <TrueBrain> as you have seen, I wrote my own swagger-generated client, but if that could have been automated, that would have made a lot of things easier :) 14:06:26 <TrueBrain> there are also generated clients that wrap everything in nice objects 14:06:34 <TrueBrain> which are a bit more friendly than JSON objects, ofc 14:06:49 <TrueBrain> but there too, it mostly adds type-checking 14:12:52 <frosch123> whenever i read sources which follow a fixed maximum line length, i think how nice code is that does not bother about line length 14:13:49 <TrueBrain> so you are that type of programmer :P 14:14:21 <frosch123> i think code formatting should fit the logic of the code. it's silly to give hard rules precedence 14:14:41 <nielsm> right try to avoid long lines but sometimes a statement works best with a long line and has no good place to break 14:19:54 <TrueBrain> why oh why is my deployment key not working .. grrrr 14:21:23 <glx> typo ? 14:21:33 <frosch123> bananas-server is surprisingly small compared to bananas-api 14:22:28 <TrueBrain> it really is frosch123 , it really is :) 14:22:44 <TrueBrain> I was so happy with bananas-server .... I did not realise how big bananas-api would become 14:23:08 <glx> but api does a lot more checking 14:23:41 <TrueBrain> I think 50% is validation 14:23:42 <TrueBrain> if not more 14:23:49 <TrueBrain> possibly even 70%, tbh 14:24:08 <glx> still better than the old one accepting almost anything 14:25:17 <frosch123> pretty sure the problem is so hard, that the new one still accepts a lot of sillyness :) 14:25:51 <TrueBrain> but at least it gives means to fix them when they pop up :) 14:26:18 <TrueBrain> I absolutely hate errors I cannot reproduce locally 14:26:32 <glx> nobody likes that I think 14:28:35 <TrueBrain> add AWS in the mix, and you have like a bizilion possible issues 14:34:03 <TrueBrain> finally, I can reproduce it inside a docker :D w00p 14:35:28 <frosch123> is it the fault of pyyaml if it does not have wheel as requirement, but needs it for building? 14:36:04 <TrueBrain> I guess? 14:36:34 <frosch123> well, i had to add wheel to requirements.txt, before pyyaml 14:36:49 <frosch123> no idea whether that's something that needs fixing in bananas_api 14:38:22 <TrueBrain> euh .. the package "wheel"? 14:38:32 <TrueBrain> that sounds like your pip did something wrong :) 14:40:02 <TrueBrain> if my memory serves me right, you only need "wheel" if you are building wheels, which you shouldn't be doing :D 14:40:25 <TrueBrain> anyway, the requirements.txt in the repo works fine in the Docker, so not sure what went wrong 14:41:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjZL 14:43:09 <TrueBrain> okay, after 10 layers of debugging: "error: cannot run ssh: No such file or directory" 14:43:10 <TrueBrain> lolz 14:43:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjZ3 14:44:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjZs 14:44:32 <glx> ahah 14:45:32 <frosch123> he, i just c&p the readme :p 14:45:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjZC 14:46:14 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yeah .. I guess .. if it is in the README, we might want to add it 14:46:23 <TrueBrain> Python just made this so annoying 14:47:19 <frosch123> so, next thing missing is tusd 14:47:25 <frosch123> maybe i should have used the docker :) 14:47:28 <TrueBrain> yes 14:47:43 <TrueBrain> but that reminds me .. did I write in the README that youhave to install tus 14:48:13 <frosch123> no, but you also did not write that you have to install pip3 14:49:55 <TrueBrain> This API is written in Python 3.8 with aiohttp, and makes strong use of asyncio. 14:49:59 <TrueBrain> I mean ... 14:50:05 <TrueBrain> you cannot get Python 3.8 without pip these days :D 14:50:19 <TrueBrain> but I will write it down :) 14:50:49 <TrueBrain> huh, no, even more weird. .. why did youhave to install pip3? 14:50:53 <TrueBrain> the python3 -m venv .env 14:50:55 <TrueBrain> installs pip 14:51:03 <TrueBrain> what kind of OS are you running over there? :D 14:51:07 <TrueBrain> I start to worry :) 14:51:24 <frosch123> pip was already installed, i just guessed 14:51:42 <TrueBrain> sorry, I am honestly curious now what you tried to do, as this is a bit weird to me 14:51:49 <TrueBrain> you have python3.8? And did python3 -m venv .env ? 14:51:54 <TrueBrain> and in that .env/bin, there was no pip? 14:52:15 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjZ0 14:52:41 <frosch123> no, i am on debian stable, i have python 3.7, and wanted to know whether that is an issue 14:52:56 <frosch123> and i had no issue with pip 14:53:06 <frosch123> i just named a random basic package 14:53:39 <TrueBrain> okay, now I am confused :) And no, it needs 3.8 :) 14:53:41 <frosch123> forget that i mentioned pip. replace it with "you did not mention to not run it on windows" 14:54:36 <TrueBrain> "Host key verification failed." 14:54:38 <TrueBrain> pffft 14:55:19 <frosch123> what is the point of using $(pwd) in mkdir? that sounds like cat | 14:55:56 <TrueBrain> what are you refering to? :) 14:56:04 <frosch123> the readme 14:56:08 <TrueBrain> mkdir -p $(pwd)/../bananas-common 14:56:30 <TrueBrain> the $(pwd) is there because the next line needs it, and it is easier to understand if they are consistent 14:56:41 <TrueBrain> so people who want to replace it with anything else, can understand those 3 should be identical 14:56:44 <TrueBrain> I hope, anyway 14:57:09 <frosch123> ok, i wondered whether there was magic with symlinks 14:57:21 <TrueBrain> nah; I just didn't want to make a variable out of it 15:00:17 <TrueBrain> owh, I see the Docker doesn't like IPv6 bind 15:00:18 <TrueBrain> I will fix that too 15:00:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] frosch123 commented on pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvjZP 15:07:26 <TrueBrain> hmm .. the volume mounts are no longer working here 15:07:29 <TrueBrain> let me check 15:09:47 <frosch123> i wonder what is running inside the docker that blocks port 80 15:10:54 <TrueBrain> the IPv6 stack in Docker is a bit wonky 15:11:38 <TrueBrain> CMD ["--bind", "0.0.0.0", "--storage", "local", "--index", "local", "--user", "developer", "--index-github-url", "https://github.com/OpenTTD/BaNaNaS"] 15:11:43 <TrueBrain> I will push that in a second 15:12:12 <TrueBrain> euh, you can forget about the index-github-url :D 15:13:25 <frosch123> hey, it started 15:13:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb 15:13:46 <TrueBrain> and there are all the fixes I found and you mentioned :) 15:14:44 <TrueBrain> need to fix bananas-server in a similar way 15:14:53 <TrueBrain> but to test your frontend, you don't need bananas-server just yet :) 15:15:31 <frosch123> i needed the secret repo, but i figured that out myself 15:15:45 <TrueBrain> you can start clean just fine :) 15:15:51 <TrueBrain> with my latest push, that even works :) 15:16:03 <frosch123> i guess "latest" is important there 15:16:13 <frosch123> it failed when the directory was just empty 15:16:15 <TrueBrain> yeah, otherwise it has issues doing the "git init" on BaNaNaS :) 15:16:19 <frosch123> maybe git init would have been enough 15:16:32 <frosch123> anyway, curl claims it works 15:16:33 <TrueBrain> although it seems there is still a bug there .. hmm .. 15:17:33 <frosch123> also nice that the last package's description says "Tahnk you for downloading my pack, have fun" 15:17:42 <frosch123> (typos by me) 15:17:49 <TrueBrain> :D 15:18:27 <TrueBrain> somehow the volume mounts dont work .. hmmmm 15:18:32 <TrueBrain> not in the way I expect them to, anyway 15:19:54 <TrueBrain> it made the mounts somewhere .. I just don't know where on my disk :D 15:19:54 <TrueBrain> sweet 15:20:48 <frosch123> bbl 15:21:08 <TrueBrain> if I restart my docker, I can still see the content; I just cannot find it on my disk :D 15:21:09 <TrueBrain> haha 15:21:16 <TrueBrain> I have spaces in my folders 15:21:17 <TrueBrain> always nice :) 15:22:17 <TrueBrain> owh 15:22:18 <TrueBrain> euh 15:22:19 <TrueBrain> I am being stupid 15:22:22 <TrueBrain> like .. big-time 15:22:26 <TrueBrain> I run docker on another host :D 15:22:26 <TrueBrain> lol 15:23:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb 15:23:18 <TrueBrain> seems the "mkdir" is optional, but what-ever 15:24:27 <TrueBrain> frosch123: important mention: tusd on local systems runs on another port; it is not forwarded by the port 80 webserver 15:24:42 <TrueBrain> in production it is a single endpoint 15:28:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-api] TrueBrain updated pull request #3: Add: first version of bananas-api https://git.io/JvhXb 15:29:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if you like, you can now also use https://api.bananas.staging.openttd.org 15:29:27 <TrueBrain> that is to say, I am still validating it, but I just uploaded the first package (OpenGFX 0.6.0) 15:29:43 <TrueBrain> it is otherwise completely empty 15:30:22 <TrueBrain> right, dinner time indeed :) 15:44:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7 https://git.io/JvhCU 16:09:46 <Samu> minchinweb's ship pathfinder isn't what I thought it was 16:10:10 <Samu> doesn't builds locks, or aqueducts, it only works at sea level 16:10:34 <Samu> the only thing it builds is buoys :( 16:12:23 <Samu> there's 2 other AIs to take a look 16:12:38 <Samu> ShipAI and RailwAI, both use ships and canals 16:14:29 *** mcbanhas has joined #openttd 16:14:37 <mcbanhas> howdy :) 16:17:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-server] TrueBrain updated pull request #1: Add: first version of the bananas_server rewritten in Python https://git.io/JvhXd 16:23:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7 https://git.io/JvjcV 16:25:21 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7 https://git.io/Jvjcw 16:28:27 <frosch123> i like looking at diffs that remove lots of code. even if i do not understand them otherwise 16:28:40 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 16:30:42 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc updated pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7 https://git.io/JvhCU 16:30:44 <TrueBrain> a good review rarely needs understanding of code :P 16:31:06 <TrueBrain> okay, wrote a very very VERY basic CLI tool 16:31:08 <TrueBrain> that can upload content 16:31:10 <TrueBrain> and list your own 16:31:12 <TrueBrain> that is it :P 16:31:27 <TrueBrain> well, I guess I should make it able to edit too 16:31:30 <TrueBrain> just .. to be sure that works 16:31:35 <frosch123> how do you do authentication via cli? or is it dev only? 16:31:48 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:31:48 <TrueBrain> no, just like any frontend 16:31:59 <TrueBrain> any CLI frontend 16:32:04 <TrueBrain> the azure-trick, I call it :P 16:32:17 <frosch123> you ask for pw and send it to gh? 16:32:19 <TrueBrain> I setup a small webserver on localhost, ask the API to authenticate, tell the user to visit the github URL I show him 16:32:21 <TrueBrain> and that is it :) 16:32:40 <TrueBrain> after GitHub flow, it redirects to localhost 16:32:42 <TrueBrain> giving me the all-okay 16:32:49 <frosch123> redirect to localhost works? 16:33:02 <TrueBrain> yes, why not? 16:33:17 <frosch123> i just assumed browsers would block that 16:33:26 <frosch123> like they block file:/// 16:33:40 <TrueBrain> yeah, but file:// is rather unrestricted 16:33:45 <TrueBrain> localhost not so much :) 16:34:02 <TrueBrain> anyway, it also caches your token, so you don't have to do that every time 16:34:05 <TrueBrain> just every 14 hours :P 16:35:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 approved pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7 https://git.io/JvjcN 16:42:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/bananas-frontend-cli] TrueBrain opened pull request #1: Add: a very basic CLI frontend for BaNaNaS API https://git.io/JvjCk 16:44:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8078: Remove: macOS support before 10.7 https://git.io/JvhCU 16:44:51 <TrueBrain> okay ... I think the infra is up and running 16:44:57 <TrueBrain> and everything seems to be in working order 16:46:23 <TrueBrain> well, for the HTTP part 16:46:30 <TrueBrain> I have some work to do to make it available to the ingame client 16:46:42 <TrueBrain> and I need to add callbacks so it reloads the GitHub repository when changes are made 16:49:08 <glx> oh need to rebase cmake carefully I think 17:02:38 <Samu> I found another heap! 17:02:44 <Samu> Native Heap 17:05:13 <Samu> ShipAI author had this heap, it's great! it's faster 17:10:40 <Samu> https://i.imgur.com/5maP8Dj.png 17:18:47 *** Jackal has joined #openttd 17:18:56 <Jackal> Hello Everyone 17:19:20 *** Jackal is now known as Guest22033 17:19:39 <Guest22033> I am long time openttd fan but now i want to play Russia empire map and i am facing error becose i have to somehow manually add extensions to game 17:19:54 <Guest22033> Can someone please help me what to do 17:21:02 <FLHerne> Guest22033: Do you have a link to this? 17:22:10 <Guest22033> i download russian empire and i think this is all i have to install 17:22:14 <Guest22033> http://www.ttdpatch.de/download.html 17:22:37 <FLHerne> Guest22033: You should download the relevant NewGRF files and install them to Documents\OpenTTD\newgrf 17:23:04 <FLHerne> The files from that link, you'll have to unzip first 17:23:06 <Guest22033> i put them in there but somewhere i read that i have to get ttdpatch 17:23:28 <nielsm> no, ttdpatch is not relevant for openttd 17:23:30 <FLHerne> You don't need ttdpatch; OpenTTD is fine 17:24:03 <FLHerne> (probably; I think there are a few ttdpatch saves that OTTD isn't compatible with) 17:25:18 <Guest22033> i have those files in newgrf folder but when i try to launch it says i am missing files 17:28:21 <glx> you may need to activate them manually in newgrf settings 17:29:41 <Guest22033> new grf setting says matching grf not found 17:29:47 <Guest22033> i see them in list 17:30:08 <Guest22033> matching filr not found 17:31:16 <nielsm> if you open NewGRF Settings from the main menu (not the load game/load scenario window) do the NewGRFs show as avaialble there? 17:33:33 <Guest22033> No they dont show in there list 17:33:46 <nielsm> okay then you did not put them in the correct folder 17:33:57 <glx> you restarted openttd after putting them there ? 17:34:33 <Samu> funny how different queues return different paths... https://i.imgur.com/ZOI593c.png 17:34:47 <Samu> is that intended to happen? 17:34:55 <nielsm> newgrf folder location: https://0x0.st/iSCK.png 17:36:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #7270: Introduce CMake (and removing all other project-related code) https://git.io/fhbqc 17:36:58 <glx> I just hope I didn't break anything :) 17:37:54 <Guest22033> Now i see them in list but how i activate them 17:38:18 <nielsm> try load loading the game now 17:39:06 <Guest22033> matching file not found [ compatitle grf found} 17:39:41 <nielsm> maybe it will work then :D 17:42:53 <Guest22033> cant load scenario becose of missing files 17:45:00 <glx> ok cmake branch still seem to work for macos 17:47:39 <FLHerne> Guest22033: Are you trying to start a normal game or a multiplayer server? 17:48:32 <Guest22033> Normal 17:48:58 <Guest22033> play scenario and then i try to start russia empire 17:49:44 <Guest22033> can someone please try that russian empire scenario and tell me what i do wrong.. 17:53:04 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 17:59:55 <Guest22033> herne ootko suomesta 18:02:20 <glx> ok I tried using "find missing content online" and still 3 missing files 18:03:59 <Guest22033> i have 4 18:04:49 <Guest22033> mari new ships new staions bas 18:13:20 <Guest22033> can someone recommend something another very good scenarion with different trains,ships etc than stock is 18:13:27 <FLHerne> Guest22033: You need some specific older version of those grfs 18:13:39 <FLHerne> You might be able to find them on the forum somewhere 18:14:19 <nielsm> and that' 18:14:39 <nielsm> and that's (part of) why it's silly to not want your stuff on bananas... 18:21:53 <Guest22033> if i download some newfrf in game will it be avalaible for all scenarios 18:31:56 *** Guest22033 has quit IRC 18:32:58 *** larsw has quit IRC 18:45:39 <mcbanhas> got a question, are there no plans to convert the vanilla vehicles to double livery in OpenGFX? This would be useful for identifying groups in multiplayer and such, and it should be a relatively easy thing to do. 18:46:20 <TrueBrain> I don't think there are any plans as such for OpenGFX, but contributions are always welcome; especially as it is considered this easy :) 18:46:25 <TrueBrain> good way to get started ;) 18:46:48 <mcbanhas> I'm not good with graphics, but I can give it a shot 18:48:24 <mcbanhas> I was wondering mostly if there would be an objection against it 18:48:45 <TrueBrain> you can always start it off in a new GRF, and see how people react 18:52:40 <frosch123> mcbanhas: take a look at opengfx+vehicles 18:53:03 <frosch123> all the "opengfx+" projects are exactly that. extending the original stuff with new options 18:57:39 <mcbanhas> opengfx+ projects also add a lot of additional stuff 18:58:10 <mcbanhas> I'm talking more about updating the opengfx package to support what is now a core feature 18:58:36 <frosch123> 2cc is not a core feature 18:59:26 <mcbanhas> dual liveries you mean? 18:59:33 <frosch123> yes 18:59:40 <mcbanhas> i mean it's there by default 19:00:04 <mcbanhas> it's no part of the original TTD, but it's a core OpenTTD feature 19:00:12 <mcbanhas> it's not an add on 19:00:20 <frosch123> no idea what your defintion of addon is 19:00:40 <frosch123> but dual colors are an add-on 19:00:47 <frosch123> the original vehicles can be green 19:00:55 <frosch123> while 2cc vehicles cannot 19:01:11 <frosch123> the feature set of baseset are frozen since 1995 19:01:19 <frosch123> they don't gain stuff 19:01:51 <LordAro> (new graphics excluded) 19:05:24 <mcbanhas> how does that relate with opengfx? 19:05:30 <mcbanhas> I'm not sure I'm following here 19:05:44 <LordAro> opengfx is a base set 19:06:01 <LordAro> the only things it can have are the sprites defined to be in the base set 19:06:05 <LordAro> no shiny features 19:08:52 <mcbanhas> my point is the base set should be compatible with a feature that is now part of the game, namely dual liveries). It's not a shiny feature per se, it's literally coded into openttd without any external downloads needed 19:09:22 <mcbanhas> and moreover it does have a practical use 19:09:33 <frosch123> you are argueing 19:09:46 <frosch123> but there is no argueing, there is a technical reason that opengfx will never get that feature 19:09:52 <mcbanhas> why so 19:10:05 <frosch123> because that is how basesets and newgrf work 19:10:16 <mcbanhas> how so 19:10:34 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Main_Page <- have a read 19:10:52 <frosch123> will take a few weeks, you can't summarize that on irc 19:11:48 <mcbanhas> that's a non-answer, you can't answer a question but saying "it's a technical matter and then throwing me an entire manual to read 19:12:10 <frosch123> you are asking why the wall is solid 19:12:32 <frosch123> either learn the technical stuff, or accept the short answers 19:12:38 <LordAro> NewGRF format is fixed, and has been since the late 90s 19:12:41 <LordAro> it cannot be changed 19:14:01 <mcbanhas> frosch123: that's a false comparison. I can feel that a wall is solid and simple answers on why that happens is also possible without resorting to in-depth molecular physics 19:14:41 <nielsm> baseset grf's and newgrf's are different, as far as I know 19:14:44 <frosch123> well, i can't help you then 19:14:59 <nielsm> the baseset grf is not allowed to contain anything but bare realsprites 19:15:17 <TrueBrain> lol; I did not know that :D Learn something new every day ;) 19:15:52 <nielsm> that's actually just an assumption on my part, but I'm assuming that ottd baseset graphics follows the same basic rules as original transport tycoon/ttdpatch 19:16:27 <nielsm> the newgrf format is a hacked up version of the grf spriteset format from transport tycoon, there were never pseudosprites from chriw sawyer's hand 19:16:31 <mcbanhas> that would be my assumption too, but it's not a valid reason why they cannot at some point be modified or updated 19:17:14 <mcbanhas> but OpenGFX is technically a newgrf, or at least it is downloaded as such 19:17:14 <TrueBrain> nielsm: well, there is map-stuff in grfs :P (all I kinda know about that :D) 19:17:29 <TrueBrain> mcbanhas: that is the point they are trying to make: it is not a NewGRF 19:17:37 <TrueBrain> it is for sure not downloaded as such; it is downloaded as a Base Graphics 19:17:42 <TrueBrain> wherein there are a few grfs 19:17:49 <nielsm> I don't know how 2cc is done, but if it requires using action 2/3 chains to select a sprite variation then it means invoking reproducability across network 19:17:52 <TrueBrain> but as nielsm mention, they clearly are not full-fletched NewGRFs 19:18:01 <nielsm> and then all players on a multiplayer server would have to use the same baseset 19:19:59 <glx> and opengfx can't have more "feature" than original base set 19:21:24 <nielsm> if grf container version 2 allowed multiple recolour masks in some form, to support multiple recolour layers, that could be an action-free way to support it 19:21:33 <nielsm> or maybe that would rather be a grf container version 3 19:22:47 <mcbanhas> so why was OpenGFX made this way though? 19:23:03 <nielsm> because it needs to be a drop-in replacement for the original base graphics 19:23:31 <mcbanhas> i get that, but it could be that and support extra features 19:24:46 <mcbanhas> restricting it to the exact limitations of the original sounds of an arbitrary design choice 19:24:56 <TrueBrain> could would should .. but what problem are you now trying to solve? :) 19:25:09 <TrueBrain> especially given you can download any other NewGRF which does add this functionality 19:25:24 <nielsm> yes it's "arbitrary" in the sense that it could be worked around, if you made some major architectural changes and huge swathes of rewrites of the entire game 19:25:24 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:25:41 <glx> no, because if in network game one player is using original baseset and the other is using opengfx with added feature, desync is highly probable 19:27:16 <mcbanhas> ok, now you're stating to make sense, but are dual liveries programmed as such it is truly impossible? 19:28:02 <nielsm> mcbanhas how much do you know about newgrf programming? 19:28:14 <nielsm> do you know what action 0, action 2 and action 3 are? 19:28:18 <glx> there are newgrf to add 2cc to base vehicle 19:28:48 <mcbanhas> pretty much nothing, hence why I am asking 19:29:45 <nielsm> okay, the core idea is that the game has a base vehicle set with hardcoded values and sprite id's into the baseset 19:30:19 <nielsm> there is only support for one company recolour natively, due to the limitations of the 256 colour palette, changing the palette is not possible as that would break compatibility 19:30:46 <mcbanhas> alright, that's a reasonable answer 19:30:58 <mcbanhas> thank you 19:31:19 <nielsm> to implement 2cc a newgrf needs to define new or redefine existing vehicles, such that it can define callbacks that fetch appropriate sprites based on selected company livery 19:31:40 <nielsm> this fetching of sprites can be non-deterministic and invoke other behaviour 19:32:18 <nielsm> the core game design of openttd revolves around "commands", which are used whenever a player does something, and apart from that it needs to simulate the exact same things on all clients participating in a multiplayer game 19:32:33 <nielsm> if something causes two clients to end up with different simulation results, you get a desync 19:32:55 <nielsm> that something could be newgrfs doing different things on each client 19:33:54 <nielsm> so if you allowed basesets to define new vehicles using callbacks to select different graphics based on various things, and keep allowing players to use different basesets, then you could have players participating in a game where their basesets cause simulation desyncs 19:34:04 <nielsm> I hope that made sense and I didn't skip too many details 19:34:08 <mcbanhas> yeah, hence why players with have to mandatorily share the same packages if playing with newgrfs online 19:34:45 <mcbanhas> no, that was a lovely answer, in fact you went too much into detail. I got it when you explained the limits of the 256 color palette 19:34:57 <nielsm> :D 19:35:01 <glx> every player MUST have the exact same newgrfs online for this reason 19:36:03 <glx> some newgrf can be used in "static" mode, but openttd checks they can't cause desyncs 19:36:18 <nielsm> even with basesets that use 32bpp sprites (mainly aBase and zBase) they still need to provide 8bpp sprites, and 32bpp sprites still only support one recolour layer 19:37:24 <mcbanhas> that sucks a wee bit though, because it means the base vehicle set can never be upgraded with new vehicles to match coming upgrades such as the in-progress water depth feature 19:38:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:38:35 <glx> that's possible because we provide new graphics usually, and there's a mechanism for baseset to be able to replace them 19:39:20 <mcbanhas> what new graphics are currently included actually? 19:39:34 <nielsm> rivers/canals/waterlocks 19:39:41 <nielsm> various GUI sprites 19:39:42 <glx> tramway, new signals 19:39:59 <mcbanhas> oh yeah the path signals, i forgot about that 19:40:11 <glx> basically action 5 :) 19:40:14 <mcbanhas> how are they rendered with the original TTD base set? 19:40:31 <andythenorth> but.... 19:40:41 <andythenorth> we could move all the default vehicles to an included newgrf 19:40:43 <mcbanhas> are the new sprites within the OpenTTD package itself? 19:40:46 <andythenorth> adding 2CC 19:40:48 <andythenorth> refittability 19:40:51 <andythenorth> cargo labels 19:40:52 <andythenorth> trams 19:40:53 <nielsm> orig_extra.grf 19:40:58 <andythenorth> but I doubt we will 19:41:07 <nielsm> is a sprite-addition set that ships with ottd 19:41:34 <glx> andythenorth: would mean openttd is responsible for the full grf ;) 19:41:51 <andythenorth> is that an upside or a downside? 19:42:31 <mcbanhas> andythenorth: would rather have an entirely new landscape over that I think 19:42:54 <glx> and including it in all openttd packages is silly because it rarely changes 19:46:03 <_dp_> are there any patches that combine normal view and minimap mode? 19:46:31 <_dp_> I vaguely remember there being something but can't find anything 19:47:39 <nielsm> wow... the drum set is aggressive on this yamaha MU50 sound module 19:51:05 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: There's a set of "OpenGFX+" newgrfs 19:51:28 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: OpenGFX+ {Trains, Airports, Landscape, Trees...} 19:52:34 <FLHerne> mcbanhas: Which do pretty much what you're proposing - they're similar to the original game elements while taking advantage of OpenTTD's newer features 19:52:51 <FLHerne> e.g. OpenGFX+ Airports are rotateable and climate-aware 19:53:51 <Wolf01> Needs OpenGFX+ roads now :P 19:54:07 <FLHerne> And OpenGFX+ Road Vehicles includes trams 19:55:03 <mcbanhas> I'm fiddling with the parameters for that now actually 19:57:54 <mcbanhas> I don't think OpenGFX+ trains has 2cc 19:58:01 <mcbanhas> a least as far as I can see on the parameters 20:04:04 <FLHerne> Hm, doesn't seem to 20:04:11 <FLHerne> But it could :P 20:10:20 <mcbanhas> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1230762#p1230762 I make a thread about fixing grammar, and suddenly a guy comes out of nowhere and wants to overhaul the entire UI 20:10:28 <mcbanhas> the screenshots he posted are nuts 20:10:36 <Samu> what is xtree and xstddef ? 20:12:10 <glx> system includes 20:14:46 <nielsm> implementation details in microsoft's c++ standard library 20:15:23 <Samu> hmm, so they are doing the sort 20:16:22 <Samu> script list sorter uses buckets? 20:16:36 <Samu> slightly confusing, but whatever it is, it's faster 20:16:48 <mcbanhas> andythenorth: is there any place where i can see the full list of trains for Iron Horse? 20:17:19 <mcbanhas> the first post in the official thread seems out of date 20:17:55 <milek7> mcbanhas: ah, that one :D 20:18:01 <milek7> I'm always surprised of quality of his mockups ;P 20:21:05 <Samu> bucket queue 20:21:10 <Samu> so that's what it's called 20:21:31 <mcbanhas> milek7: i'm wondering if that's just a mockup or if he already programmed the whole thing 20:21:35 <mcbanhas> if so it would be nuts 20:21:50 <glx> mockup I think 20:22:16 <glx> coding that would be a pain :) 20:23:49 <mcbanhas> yeah, he's envisioning a whole set of conditional orders that simply do not exist in the game yet 20:24:08 <andythenorth> oof 20:24:28 <andythenorth> speaking from very personal experience 20:24:39 <mcbanhas> I do however see his concept of fusing timetables and orders in the same window working tho 20:24:42 <LordAro> looks factorio inspired 20:24:45 <andythenorth> adding bevels and shading to everything does not a more usable UI make 20:24:58 <andythenorth> I have committed this error at least twice personally 20:25:14 <LordAro> .andythenorth { border-shadow: 5px; } 20:25:15 <andythenorth> it's a nice retro reminder of winamp though 20:25:23 <mcbanhas> lol 20:25:38 <andythenorth> it's not like the current UI is usable 20:25:39 <mcbanhas> really whips the lamma's ass 20:25:44 <andythenorth> but I am used to it, so eh 20:26:35 <mcbanhas> wouldn't be bad idea to discuss some of his concepts tho 20:26:38 <milek7> he makes mockups and then searches someone to code it ;) 20:26:57 <milek7> "New World Disorder" GS is collaboration of that sort (I didn't finish coding, though) 20:27:29 <mcbanhas> he does seem to have some solutions for present problems tho 20:27:55 <glx> I think most of the devs would agree about some windows needing improvements, but hey we are coders, not UI specialists ;) 20:27:58 <mcbanhas> like I can see the way how he put orders and timetables in the same window working 20:28:09 <andythenorth> glx speak forself :P 20:28:14 <andythenorth> I am the opposite :P 20:28:30 <mcbanhas> yeah that's usually the problem with a lot of open source games 20:28:36 <andythenorth> hmm, I'm not convinced that brining "they don't work" timetables into the orders window does anything but destroy the orders window 20:28:43 <mcbanhas> they end up being made for programmers by programmers 20:28:43 <andythenorth> bringing * 20:29:10 <andythenorth> if I forked openttd, conditional orders and timetables would be deleted 20:29:41 <andythenorth> and everything else would be unicorns 20:29:44 <glx> at least working on the GUI side now is easier than it was some years ago :) 20:30:01 <mcbanhas> timetables are just useless for me ATM. i heard there's a patch that improves it somehow though 20:30:17 <LordAro> glx: gotta be careful with that, albert's GUI rework was about 10 years ago :p 20:30:36 <glx> wow already ? 20:30:44 <andythenorth> I added windowshade to the station window 20:30:47 <andythenorth> that was easy 20:31:05 <frosch123> glx: ottd 1.x was released in 2010+x 20:31:12 <frosch123> very easy rule 20:31:18 <andythenorth> I released child #1 in 2010 20:31:33 <glx> map array was a pain before we added accessors to it 20:31:46 <andythenorth> are we rewriting the economy then? 20:31:56 <andythenorth> I'm scared to ask, someone usually rage quits the discussion 20:33:06 <frosch123> why are there 171 people here? 20:33:12 <frosch123> all matrix zombies? 20:33:26 <frosch123> channel norm used to be 100-130 20:34:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: how did it go with the API? 20:34:14 <TrueBrain> got it working with your frontend? 20:34:27 <frosch123> i only procrastinated 20:34:34 <TrueBrain> :( 20:34:40 <TrueBrain> you think we will make the end of the month? :D 20:35:27 <frosch123> if i ignore the swagger stuff, i can finish all except the tus stuff tomorrow 20:35:39 <TrueBrain> what did you want to do with swagger? :) 20:35:39 <frosch123> the swagger stuff does not appear helpful to me 20:36:12 <mcbanhas> I think that all in all it's worthwhile to work with a UI designer like this guy to come up with a solution to improve the UI 20:36:19 <frosch123> i think i am just going to pass json dicts around, and do not do any validation 20:36:24 <TrueBrain> just look at the swagger as a way to communicate between you and me how the API should look frosch123 ; and don't give it any more attention :) 20:36:28 <TrueBrain> that is fine for now 20:36:32 <TrueBrain> build first, improve later 20:36:57 <andythenorth> mcbanhas I honestly think that's the worst thing we could do 20:37:05 <andythenorth> being polite about it, his UIs are shit 20:37:17 <andythenorth> I don't like to slag people off in the channel, it's rude 20:37:21 <andythenorth> but they're awful 20:37:37 <TrueBrain> frosch123: tomorrow I hope to finish routing the network on AWS .. if you like I can take a look at tus after that? 20:37:43 <TrueBrain> shouldn't be too hard from what I read 20:37:58 <mcbanhas> well I mean with him or anyone else that knows about UIs 20:38:17 <andythenorth> https://xkcd.com/1172/ 20:38:27 <andythenorth> I won't touch OpenTTD UI, it's a tar pit 20:38:51 <andythenorth> there's absolutely no possibility for deleting *any* features, no matter how bad 20:38:59 <andythenorth> which means good UI design is impossible 20:39:02 <mcbanhas> yeah but you can't think only like a programmer for these matters 20:39:08 <LordAro> i don't think that's entirely true 20:39:15 <andythenorth> mcbanhas FWIW I am a UI designer with millions of users 20:39:21 <TrueBrain> frosch123: after that we ask andythenorth or LordAro nicely to add some CSS :D 20:39:32 <LordAro> but we'd have to be pretty sure 20:39:35 <LordAro> TrueBrain: :< 20:39:53 <andythenorth> not bragging, I just have looked at OpenTTD UI and backed away 20:40:27 <mcbanhas> i think it should be possible to fix some things here and there without setting fire to the whole thing and starting over 20:40:40 <TrueBrain> LordAro: we really need help .. deadline is the end of this month :) 20:40:56 <LordAro> css isn't part of that deadline :p 20:41:01 <LordAro> and basic css is trivial 20:41:04 <andythenorth> +1 20:41:06 <TrueBrain> exactly 20:41:10 <TrueBrain> so we need someone to do it :) 20:41:16 <andythenorth> we really need to just reuse the current skin 20:41:24 <TrueBrain> and if you have seen what frosch123 's site looks like .. that basic CSS part, is needed :P 20:41:30 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: sure, I am fine with that 20:41:30 <andythenorth> we shouldn't confuse a reimplementation with a new skin 20:41:32 <TrueBrain> it just needs doing 20:41:33 <LordAro> haha 20:41:39 <Samu> there is no Bucket Heap when I try to search for it 20:41:51 <LordAro> just for clarification - TrueBrain is talking about new bananas, andythenorth is talking about OTTD UI 20:41:53 <Samu> is it just called Bucket Queue 20:41:54 <andythenorth> frosch123 so what, the current skin needs retemplated from django templates? 20:41:55 <Samu> = 20:42:05 <mcbanhas> got it 20:42:10 <andythenorth> sorry mcbanhas :) 20:42:16 <andythenorth> 2x UI conversation 20:42:20 <mcbanhas> I wouldn't change the UI skin either 20:42:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: we are? Well, I know andythenorth thinks the same about the website :) 20:42:36 <andythenorth> I do 20:42:39 <TrueBrain> we just needs some hands to make it happen ;) 20:42:40 <andythenorth> I changed track sorry 20:42:56 * andythenorth apologises to everyone 20:43:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://github.com/frosch123/bananas-frontend-web/tree/dev/webclient/templates <- just add whatever you need 20:43:50 <andythenorth> oh it's flask 20:43:58 <andythenorth> there's a chance it might actually build for me 20:43:58 <frosch123> when you scream, you have found my easteregg :) 20:44:38 <andythenorth> you have a built-in DMCA takedown form? :o 20:44:41 <andythenorth> how does that work? 20:45:48 * andythenorth probably has old bananas skin checked out somewhere 20:45:54 <andythenorth> I changed it once 20:46:20 <mcbanhas> you're adding a new skin to bananas? 20:46:35 <andythenorth> current bananas dies at the end of April 20:46:40 <andythenorth> 'we' have to write a new one 20:47:37 *** mcbanhas_ has joined #openttd 20:47:55 *** mcbanhas has quit IRC 20:48:32 <mcbanhas_> oh btw, once I have a good draft for the manual of style I'm working on, would you prefer me to submit a PR with it, or should i just put it on the wiki? 20:48:50 <mcbanhas_> I'm asking because the current coding style guide is only on the wiki itself AFAIK 20:49:38 <andythenorth> the majority of docs are on the wiki 20:49:43 <andythenorth> github docs are minimalist 20:50:22 <mcbanhas_> I began writing it on markdown for that purpose 20:53:57 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 20:54:36 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 20:55:48 <_dp_> how to call company that takes cargo from the industry? 20:55:54 <_dp_> opposite of supplier I guess 20:57:18 <nielsm> transporter? 20:57:56 <nielsm> carrier? 20:58:09 <_dp_> that's any direction 20:58:12 <_dp_> I think consumer 20:59:07 <luaduck> stupid question, does OpenTTD support displaying IPv6 addresses in the console? (I think I asked this before but I lost my IRC scrollback) 20:59:35 <andythenorth> customer or consumer 20:59:38 <andythenorth> downstream 20:59:53 <andythenorth> recipient, destination 21:01:00 *** syr has quit IRC 21:01:23 *** syr has joined #openttd 21:04:12 <_dp_> Hm, interesting, industry has an owner 21:04:21 <_dp_> but it can only be OWNER_NONE %) 21:04:37 <_dp_> wtf xD 21:07:24 <nielsm> sounds like a feature that was never implemented 21:10:33 <frosch123> there is a second "founder" or something 21:11:02 <_dp_> lol, owner goes back to r1 21:11:11 <frosch123> _dp_: GSCargoMonitor calls them Pickup and Delivery 21:11:56 <nielsm> supply carrier, production carrier 21:13:02 <_dp_> frosch123, isn't that an act of moving cargo, not the company that does it? 21:13:25 <_dp_> I think supplier and consumer are the best terms 21:14:21 <nielsm> the transport company does not buy the cargo from the producing industry and sell it to the taking industry 21:14:26 <glx> luaduck: it should, at least dedicated server shows local IP (both v4 and v6) on start 21:14:32 <andythenorth> so I have an 800 litre inflatable hot tub on decking 21:14:38 <andythenorth> and it turns out the decking is rotten 21:14:44 <nielsm> so the transport company is not a consumer or supplier 21:14:50 <andythenorth> "Do you wish to continue y/n?" 21:15:53 <nielsm> is this one of the joys of being a homeowner? 21:16:01 <andythenorth> seems 21:16:06 <andythenorth> I can live dangerously 21:16:10 <andythenorth> or die stupidly 21:16:45 <LordAro> imagine having a hot tub in England 21:16:59 <frosch123> _dp_: ottd 0.1 (pretty close to CS) already has owner as parameter to DoCreateNewIndustry, and it is only called with OWNER_NONE constant 21:17:31 <andythenorth> LordAro I don't have to imagine :) 21:17:36 <_dp_> frosch123, xD 21:17:54 <_dp_> well, I guess nobody would mind if I delete it then :p 21:18:27 <frosch123> it ottd 0.1 it is used to fill the landinfo window :p 21:18:36 <_dp_> rofl 21:18:45 <frosch123> _dp_: ottd generally used "founder", which was added later and has meaning 21:18:56 <frosch123> owner is indeed useless 21:19:13 <_dp_> yeah, I'm not touching founder 21:24:35 <_dp_> nielsm, don't think payment is absolutely necessary to be called consumer or supplier :p 21:24:53 <_dp_> also it's just a quirk of a broken openttd economy 21:27:26 <milek7> andythenorth: I don't think personal preference of bevels is really important in that discussion 21:27:31 <milek7> apart from horrid contrast on some rows, general idea certainly isn't worse than current ui 21:27:36 <milek7> with plaintext list and matrix of modification buttons (and dropdowns) stashed aside 21:28:34 <andythenorth> ok 21:28:43 <andythenorth> I have spent 20 years getting paid to argue about UI 21:29:03 <andythenorth> that order window is absolute shit, with or without bevels 21:29:21 <andythenorth> it's also one of those stupid tarpits, OpenTTD UI cannot be fixed 21:29:28 <andythenorth> hot air arguments 21:29:31 <andythenorth> :) 21:29:36 <_dp_> would it be better with an ornament? xDDD https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/8041 21:29:49 <andythenorth> it would be....different 21:30:07 *** kouett_ has joined #openttd 21:30:26 <andythenorth> we could try it for one release, remove it in the next? o_O 21:30:30 <andythenorth> Apple do that in macOS 21:30:36 <andythenorth> Feature: transparency in menus 21:30:48 <andythenorth> Feature: menus are no longer transparent, for better legibility 21:30:50 <andythenorth> repeat 21:30:52 <mcbanhas_> I don't think the current UI is (that) bad, it just has some stuff that shouldn't be on top of each other 21:31:44 <andythenorth> most people confuse the UI with buttons 21:31:51 <andythenorth> UI is the tools 21:32:10 <_dp_> lmao, yeah, current UI is bad but not THAT bad... 21:32:11 *** kouett has quit IRC 21:33:10 <andythenorth> until we're prepared to delete things that don't work, like timetables and conditional orders 21:33:13 <mcbanhas_> incidentally I do agree we should get rid of timetables in its current form 21:33:17 <andythenorth> changing the button style is this https://i0.wp.com/allenrsmith.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/putting-lipstick-on-a-pig-1-638.jpg?w=638&ssl=1 21:33:29 <andythenorth> timetables literally doesn't work 21:33:36 <andythenorth> but eh 21:33:54 <mcbanhas_> But I still would like something to have buses behave in a more civilmanner 21:34:10 * andythenorth heads towards ASD obsession about certain issues, sorry, UX is one of them 21:34:19 <andythenorth> I am not ASD according to 'test on the internet' 21:35:01 * andythenorth back to cargos 21:35:35 <Samu> anyone here can help me with this? https://pastebin.com/raw/UN3MguWq , on the descriptions where it says "The complexion of this operation is UNKNOWN", if anyone actually knows the complexity or Script Lists, which is using bucket sort 21:35:43 <mcbanhas_> andythenorth: btw I asked b4 if you have a list of all the trains in Iron Horse, since the one on the thread seems outdated 21:35:55 <Samu> plz tell 21:36:05 <andythenorth> this is recent-ish mcbanhas_ https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/trains.html 21:36:10 <andythenorth> that url is not permanent 21:36:23 <mcbanhas_> lovely, thanks 21:36:35 <andythenorth> there's a tech tree as well https://firs-test-1.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/iron-horse/docs/html/tech_tree_table_red.html 21:37:45 <FLHerne> mcbanhas_: You can set "vehicles never expire", set year to 3000, and see all of them :P 21:38:02 <FLHerne> andythenorth: "1 rosters of trains for OpenTTD" 21:38:06 <_dp_> Samu, heaps are usually logarithmic, buckets are usually squared, but tf is that thing I've no idea :p 21:38:07 <andythenorth> oof 21:38:19 <andythenorth> ${'s' if len(foo) > 0 else ''} 21:38:22 <andythenorth> is missing 21:38:33 <mcbanhas_> I just love your trains man, you gonna do american inspired stuff at some point? 21:38:34 <andythenorth> or alternately, the other rosters :P 21:38:44 <andythenorth> mcbanhas_ depending on death or disability, yes 21:38:48 <andythenorth> eventually 21:38:49 <mcbanhas_> FLHerne: good point, thanks fo the suggestion 21:38:55 <Samu> _dp_ you have to look inside openttd code, for how ScriptList uses the buckets 21:39:08 <Samu> let me find it 21:39:09 <mcbanhas_> separate pack or same? 21:39:23 <mcbanhas_> all these look like brit stuff 21:39:36 <andythenorth> same grf, different parameter 21:39:58 <mcbanhas_> aha 21:40:21 <Samu> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/script/api/script_list.cpp#L524 21:40:55 <Samu> this is sorting by value, ascending, so line 543 21:42:19 <Samu> "The complexity of this operation is UNKNOWN", I typed uknown because I don't really know, it's a placeholder 21:42:41 <Samu> if you actually can figure them out, i'll appreciate 21:45:12 <andythenorth> mcbanhas_ https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9641/nars_horse_tests.png 21:46:24 *** kouett_ has quit IRC 21:47:11 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:47:11 <mcbanhas_> very nice man, I see E-unit loco inspired stuff on the top 21:47:47 <mcbanhas_> also amtrak double decker carriages at the bottom? 21:48:59 <milek7> I was just trying to get what threw you off in that window 21:49:04 <milek7> but if 'is absolute shit' was just statement without explaination, not meant to be discussed, then.. ok 21:50:30 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:50:44 <andythenorth> it's very hard to explain how wrong that UI is :) 21:50:52 <andythenorth> like, it just starts wrong, and carries on 21:51:04 <andythenorth> oops router reboot time 21:52:11 <mcbanhas_> milek7: I think andythenorth means the functions provided by the user interface 21:52:19 <mcbanhas_> not necessarily how they're displayed 21:52:34 <_dp_> lol, stl conversion was a bit too straightforward here xD https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/sortlist_type.h#L274 21:52:47 <_dp_> if flag use sort if not use sort anyway xD 21:53:04 <LordAro> i noticed that the other day 21:53:10 <LordAro> doc comment doesn't match anymore either :) 21:53:25 <_dp_> second one should probably be stable_sort judging by that comment 21:53:50 <LordAro> possibly, yeah 21:54:05 <LordAro> if indeed that's faster with "nearly sorted" data 21:54:33 <_dp_> it is in gcc but I don't think it's guaranteed by the standard 21:54:37 <andythenorth> hmm 21:54:46 <LordAro> mm, i wouldn't have thought so 21:54:50 * andythenorth needs natural gas cargo 21:54:54 <LordAro> might just be easier to just remove the flag entirely :p 21:55:01 <andythenorth> Error: pipelines not found :P 21:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> how could the standard guarantee that? 21:55:17 <_dp_> logically speaking stable_sort should be merge sort or similar 21:55:30 <luaduck> glx: ipv6 addresses show up as "172.25.0.1" in clients 21:55:49 <luaduck> not sure if that's just a quirk of my networking setup but I don't think it is? 21:56:10 <LordAro> luaduck: ipv6 certainly should work 21:56:17 <LordAro> and does in many other cases 21:56:53 <LordAro> luaduck: however, that is part of the RFC 1918 private range 21:57:01 <LordAro> are you sure you're not actually using ipv4? 21:57:13 <luaduck> 100% sure I'm connecting via ipv6 21:57:37 <luaduck> IPv4 clients have the correct addresses so it's not a bridging problem 21:59:08 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:59:27 <LordAro> have you any idea where the 172.25.0.1 could've come from? any part of your current network setup use anything similar? 22:00:57 <andythenorth> cargo label for aluminia? :) 22:01:05 <andythenorth> ALUM is Aluminium 22:02:15 <nielsm> AlO_ 22:02:44 <andythenorth> good call 22:03:09 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer_process 22:06:43 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 22:07:23 <andythenorth> 'Aluminia' or 'Aluminium Oxide'? 22:07:44 <FLHerne> 'Alumina', no second 'i'? 22:08:16 <FLHerne> And I think everyone uses the first one 22:08:40 <FLHerne> The alumina train to the smelter at Fort William is called that 22:09:02 <andythenorth> exactly :) 22:09:15 <glx> luaduck: all display use NetworkAddress::GetHostname() and it works 22:09:25 <luaduck> glx: hm, probably something fucky with my network stack then 22:09:28 <luaduck> will investigate in more detail 22:17:33 *** luaduck has quit IRC 22:23:09 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:23:53 *** luaduck has joined #openttd 22:43:59 *** epoll has joined #openttd 22:44:53 *** syr has quit IRC 22:58:56 *** nielsm has quit IRC 23:08:09 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:09:00 <milek7> hmm 23:09:01 <milek7> https://i.imgur.com/of56XWO.png 23:09:25 <milek7> before/after signing :P 23:13:26 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:17:29 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:19:45 *** mcbanhas_ has quit IRC 23:26:55 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 23:57:22 *** Speedy` has quit IRC