Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8196: Fix: Adjust .gitignore to CMake build system. https://git.io/JfMs4 00:04:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8184: Cleanup: More code comment and doxygen fixes. https://git.io/JfMsB 00:04:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8184: Cleanup: More code comment and doxygen fixes. https://git.io/JfXst 00:10:05 *** blathijs has quit IRC 00:16:12 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 00:23:20 *** GT has joined #openttd 00:25:28 <GT> make: *** No targets specified and no makefile found. Stop. 00:25:28 <GT> So how do I compile? I did a git pull and gmake like in the old days. Also cmake. .configure is gone. 00:26:24 <glx> there's a readme, but basically it's "mkdir build; cd build; cmake ..; make" 00:29:16 <GT> well, the readme is also gone, but I'll try this 00:31:44 <GT> CMake Error: The source directory ... OpenTTD" does not appear to contain CMakeLists.txt. 00:32:20 <GT> ls 00:33:50 <glx> ah yes the "readme" is COMPILING.md 00:35:27 <GT> find . -name COMPILING.md 00:35:42 <GT> ~/ottdsvn/trunk/OpenTTD $ 00:36:45 <GT> no readme, no COMPILING.md 00:37:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8196: Fix: Adjust .gitignore to CMake build system. https://git.io/JfMGu 00:38:21 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/COMPILING.md <-- but there is one GT 00:43:19 <GT> git reset --hard 00:44:02 <GT> ~/ottdsvn/trunk/OpenTTD $ cd build; cmake ..; make 00:44:03 <GT> -- The C compiler identification is GNU 8.2.0 00:44:03 <GT> -- The CXX compiler identification is GNU 8.2.0 00:44:03 <GT> -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/cc 00:44:03 <GT> -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/cc -- works 00:44:04 <GT> -- Detecting C compiler ABI info 00:44:04 <GT> -- Detecting C compiler ABI info - done 00:44:06 <GT> -- Detecting C compile features 00:44:06 <GT> -- Detecting C compile features - done 00:44:08 <GT> -- Check for working CXX compiler: /usr/bin/c++ 00:44:08 <GT> -- Check for working CXX compiler: /usr/bin/c++ -- works 00:44:10 <GT> -- Detecting CXX compiler ABI info 00:44:10 <GT> -- Detecting CXX compiler ABI info - done 00:44:12 <GT> -- Detecting CXX compile features 00:44:12 <GT> -- Detecting CXX compile features - done 00:44:14 <GT> -- Detecting Personal Data directory - .openttd 00:44:14 <GT> -- Detecting Shared Data directory - (not set) 00:44:16 <GT> -- Detecting Global Data directory - /usr/local/share/games/openttd 00:44:16 <GT> -- Looking for pthread.h 00:44:18 <GT> -- Looking for pthread.h - found 00:44:18 <GT> -- Looking for pthread_create 00:44:20 <GT> -- Looking for pthread_create - not found 00:44:20 <GT> -- Looking for pthread_create in pthreads 00:44:22 <GT> -- Looking for pthread_create in pthreads - not found 00:44:22 <GT> -- Looking for pthread_create in pthread 00:44:32 <glx> use a paste service next time 00:44:40 <glx> but cmake seems to work 00:45:18 <GT> Seems I messed up my local repo. git reset --hard did the trick 00:50:22 *** blathijs has quit IRC 00:50:42 <GT> [ 98%] Linking CXX executable openttd 00:50:42 <GT> [ 98%] Built target openttd 00:50:42 <GT> Scanning dependencies of target regression_files 00:50:42 <GT> [ 98%] Copying regression/info.nut regression file 00:50:42 <GT> [ 98%] Copying regression/main.nut regression file 00:50:44 <GT> [ 98%] Copying regression/require.nut regression file 00:50:44 <GT> [ 98%] Copying regression/result.txt regression file 00:50:46 <GT> [100%] Copying regression/test.sav regression file 00:50:46 <GT> [100%] Copying stationlist/info.nut regression file 00:50:48 <GT> [100%] Copying stationlist/main.nut regression file 00:50:48 <GT> [100%] Copying stationlist/result.txt regression file 00:50:50 <GT> [100%] Copying stationlist/test.sav regression file 00:50:50 <GT> [100%] Copying stationlist/test.sav regression 00:50:52 <GT> Yes, that's a lot better 00:51:33 <glx> and you don't need to run cmake each time 00:51:49 <glx> it's like configure 00:53:22 <dwfreed> if it's more than 3-5 lines, please for the love of everything, use a pastebin 00:54:06 <GT> You're right, I messed up. Sorry about that. 00:55:51 <GT> I think the openttd target is now also in the build dir. It used to be in the bin dir, so I guess if I replace the build in the commands above by bin, things are like they used to be again? 00:57:26 <glx> we should document about that I guess 00:57:40 *** GT has quit IRC 00:57:54 <glx> but you can run build/openttd from bin 00:58:03 <glx> and he's gone 01:05:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:06:54 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 01:15:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 01:18:29 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 01:19:43 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:21:04 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 01:21:58 <supermop_Home_> helicopters are back 01:27:32 *** blathijs has quit IRC 01:42:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8184: Cleanup: More code comment and doxygen fixes. https://git.io/JfMnv 02:14:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8196: Fix: Adjust .gitignore to CMake build system. https://git.io/JfMLt 02:37:16 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 02:37:58 *** adikt has quit IRC 02:38:11 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:41:35 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 02:43:35 *** tyteen4a03 has quit IRC 02:47:50 *** blathijs has quit IRC 02:50:48 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:53:55 *** namad7 has joined #openttd 02:55:21 *** namad7 has quit IRC 03:02:49 *** spnda has joined #openttd 03:04:33 <spnda> might be a little late, ik, but i am trying on my NRS patch again. So, anyone know why when I use DrawNewGRFTileSeqInGUI(x, y, dts, view, palette);, and view is a uint8 between 0-5, that each sprite is offset by 2, so that I get sprite IDs for 49, 51, 53, 55, 57, 59 instead of 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54? 03:04:55 <spnda> This has been bugging me quite a bit and I just am completely clueless on why this is happening and I really want to finish of my NRS patch. 03:20:11 *** tyteen4a03 has joined #openttd 03:28:25 *** glx has quit IRC 03:31:02 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 03:39:03 *** Speeder_ has quit IRC 03:41:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:44:30 *** spnda has quit IRC 03:56:10 *** blathijs has quit IRC 05:39:57 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 06:49:10 *** blathijs has quit IRC 06:55:23 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 06:59:44 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 07:05:41 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:28:19 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 07:37:29 *** Smedles_ has quit IRC 07:37:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:37:47 <andythenorth> yo 07:38:33 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 08:20:58 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 08:26:48 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 08:53:33 *** mobajl has joined #openttd 08:54:48 *** mobajl has quit IRC 09:00:27 <andythenorth> FLHerne FIRS parameter to adjust base primary production amounts? I think it's probably quite easy to do 09:03:40 <nielsm> that would make sense yes 09:08:26 <andythenorth> not sure what bounds to give it, 0-100% is easy for reduction, but there would have to be an upper limit for increase 09:08:56 <nielsm> why would there? 09:09:11 <nielsm> if players want to challenge themselves with transporting absurd amounts of cargo let them 09:09:25 <andythenorth> well practically I have to define one in action 14 09:09:49 <andythenorth> it's not a gameplay issue, just implementation detail 09:10:20 <nielsm> just go for 64x 09:11:59 <nielsm> 64x, 32x, 24x, 16x, 12x, 8x, 6x, 4x, 3x, 2x, Standard, 3x/4, 2x/3, x/2, x/3, x/4, x/6, x/8 09:12:10 <nielsm> I'd like that list 09:12:12 <nielsm> :P 09:15:32 <andythenorth> seems plausible 09:15:38 <andythenorth> not sure the reductions are fine-grained enough 09:16:11 <andythenorth> I wonder if some would want 7/8 or so 09:16:23 <nielsm> or just a scale figure, default 100, min 8, max 6400 09:17:13 <andythenorth> also works 09:17:36 <nielsm> the actual production isn't perfectly scaleable anyway, since you can only produce whole units of cargo 09:18:23 <nielsm> so you have some quantisation going on that could also eventually cause a non-zero production scale to produce zero 09:20:15 <andythenorth> yes 09:21:12 <andythenorth> I should write this into my FIRS 'to do' notes 09:21:25 <andythenorth> if it's written down, it might get done :) 09:23:25 <andythenorth> 55 years into Steeltown game 09:24:04 <andythenorth> still got 4 cargo connections to make 09:26:00 <andythenorth> connections get dense https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9696/Teddybottom%20Transport,%2009-01-1978%232.png 09:26:55 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9697/Teddybottom%20Transport,%2009-01-1978%233.png 09:27:52 <andythenorth> boats are saviour :P 09:43:38 <_dp_> hm... I have a suspicion that clients sometimes don't fully sync command queue when connecting, but I don't see why. 09:44:36 <_dp_> e.g. I have a desync where client didn't get stations that were built while he was downloading the map 10:00:06 *** EER has quit IRC 10:00:27 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:11:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis opened pull request #8198: Fix: [CMake] Error when SDL2 provides SDL2Config https://git.io/JfM61 10:16:18 *** EER has joined #openttd 10:19:25 *** EER has quit IRC 10:19:26 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis opened pull request #8199: CMake always export compile commands https://git.io/JfM6x 10:19:28 *** EER has joined #openttd 10:24:22 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 10:24:38 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 10:38:34 *** AndroUser has joined #openttd 10:46:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8198: Error when SDL2 provides SDL2Config https://git.io/JfMi4 10:55:09 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis opened issue #8200: Consider upgrading to C++17 https://git.io/JfMiD 10:55:50 *** arikover has joined #openttd 10:59:09 *** AndroUser has joined #openttd 10:59:23 <arikover> Hi! 11:00:10 <andythenorth> hi 11:02:17 *** AndroUser has quit IRC 11:02:58 <arikover> I noticed the CMake branch was merged to master. Nice! I gave it a try. 11:03:28 <arikover> Compiles well, except for some reason I have no sound effects. MIDI works fine though. 11:04:28 <arikover> I'm sure there is some parameter for cmake to be entered, but which? 11:04:48 <arikover> (I run Ubuntu 18.04) 11:05:16 <nielsm> depends on how you're testing (running the built program), the search locations for baseset data might be different 11:05:29 <nielsm> since the output files are placed in different directories 11:07:33 <andythenorth> hmm 11:07:43 * andythenorth curious 11:07:54 <andythenorth> what if there was a framework like GS, but in newgrf? 11:08:30 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:09:11 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:09:39 <Samu> hi 11:11:49 <Samu> this cmake thing creates a lot of files 11:12:06 <Samu> github desktop catches 1329 changes 11:12:12 <nielsm> you don't have to look at all the files 11:12:16 <arikover> nielsm: Thank you! 11:12:47 <nielsm> there's an updated .gitignore file on the way that should ignore all the generated "junk" 11:13:16 <Samu> oh, nice to know 11:14:18 <Samu> how do i build openttd with zlib png etc support 11:14:30 <andythenorth> hmm, what if I actually just learnt GS :P 11:15:07 <nielsm> andythenorth: that might be an idea 11:15:36 <nielsm> the issue with GRF is that the language and machine it executes is weird and impractical 11:15:54 <andythenorth> I got disillusioned with GS when I worked on Busy Bee with alberth 11:16:15 <nielsm> and otherwise you'd just be embedding squirrel code textually in the GRF 11:18:31 <andythenorth> I found I was committing state-destroying bugs to the repo with no clue that would happen 11:18:40 <andythenorth> and no real way to test 11:18:59 <andythenorth> it's almost impossible to commit those kind of bugs in newgrf 11:19:36 <andythenorth> can reload anything any time except cargo IDs 11:19:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] fsimonis opened issue #8201: Consider upgrading CMake to latest release https://git.io/JfMP8 11:19:56 <andythenorth> and no need to handle saveload in newgrf 11:20:35 <nielsm> I think GS would be able to handle saveload easily, if you're careful how you design your internal data 11:20:38 <andythenorth> I don't expect a solution to that, GS is programming where newgrf just isn't 11:20:50 <andythenorth> newgrf is basically markup 11:22:08 <Samu> is there an updated guide to build openttd with lzma zlib, png support, im still unable to do it 11:22:23 <nielsm> not yet no 11:22:43 <andythenorth> somewhat I think I want to combine Silicon Valley and Busy Bee 11:22:53 <andythenorth> and generate it as part of the FIRS compile 11:23:16 <andythenorth> arbitrary goals about specific cargos and industries 11:23:27 <Samu> can't even load savegames :| 11:25:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8201: Consider upgrading CMake to latest release https://git.io/JfMP8 11:26:09 <nielsm> I think the issue is setting the correct VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET variable in the CMakeSettings.json 11:26:14 <nielsm> here's my settings: https://gist.github.com/nielsmh/290dd99611576f4f0cc8fb56fd6565c4 11:27:19 <nielsm> but I also remember messing around a lot with vcpkg itself, but maybe that was only to get clang-cl working (and that's a silly experiment not necessary for anything) 11:29:58 <nielsm> also, after changing the cmake settings you may need to clear the cache and stuff (right-click CMakeLists.txt in the solution explorer in visual studio) 11:33:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] embeddedt commented on issue #8200: Consider upgrading to C++17 https://git.io/JfMiD 11:35:04 *** EER has quit IRC 11:37:00 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8198: Error when SDL2 provides SDL2Config https://git.io/JfM61 11:39:11 <andythenorth> hmm sandbox mode would also solve a cargodist problem 11:42:05 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 11:42:10 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 11:42:39 <andythenorth> currently, in cdist game, it takes ~12 months for cargo to be assigned when a 2nd route is added to a station 11:42:54 <andythenorth> so I tend to run the game on ffwd, then reset the year back 12 months 11:43:15 <andythenorth> with sandbox, I could just skip resetting the date back 11:55:10 <Samu> i think it works now 11:55:43 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8196: Fix: Adjust .gitignore to CMake build system. https://git.io/JfMXs 11:55:51 <Samu> VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET had x64-windows, i changed to x64-windows-static 11:56:02 <Samu> building to see 11:57:32 <andythenorth> these trains should have crashed https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9698/no_crash.png 11:57:43 <andythenorth> due to 'mistakes were made' by me 11:57:48 <andythenorth> they didn't, which is interesting 11:58:30 <Samu> confirmed, main menu savegame was loaded 11:58:32 <Samu> thx 12:07:56 <Wolf01> So... if I still use VS2017, what do I need to compile OTTD? 12:09:15 <nielsm> cmake 12:10:35 <Wolf01> Extension or something I need to download and install from some third party? 12:11:29 <nielsm> it's a program that will load the CMakeLists and associated config and generate VS project files from it 12:11:49 <nielsm> there might also be an extension to VS 2017 that streamlines things 12:12:02 <LordAro> is there any particular reason you wouldn't be able to upgrade to VS2019? 12:12:12 <Wolf01> SSD space 12:12:39 <Wolf01> Also I don't know if 2019 still support the old SDK version I use for windows 10 mobile 12:12:56 <LordAro> that's fair 12:13:00 <LordAro> also, windows mobile? ouch 12:13:08 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:13:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 12:13:52 <Wolf01> Heh... I still use it and will do until I'll switch to the next surface duo (not sure I will buy the first batch of devices) 12:14:55 <Wolf01> Hmmm, the only extensions which seem related are a cmake project wizard and a vc solution to cmake (which seem the opposite of what I need) 12:16:03 <glx> too old VS ? 12:16:16 <Wolf01> 2017 12:16:35 <glx> cmake is included in 2017 12:16:43 <Wolf01> Hmm 12:17:05 <glx> maybe needs to be enabled in VS installer 12:17:11 <glx> (not sure) 12:17:13 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 12:17:16 <Wolf01> I'll try 12:17:46 <Wolf01> Maybe I didn't enable it when I installed the C++ components 12:18:02 <glx> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/cmake-support-in-visual-studio-the-visual-studio-2017-rc-update/ 12:19:10 <glx> and that was in RC 12:20:49 <glx> https://docs.microsoft.com/fr-fr/cpp/build/cmake-projects-in-visual-studio?view=vs-2017 12:20:55 <glx> official doc :) 12:21:44 <Wolf01> Oook, it was deselected 12:23:05 <Wolf01> Yep, works now 12:23:52 <Wolf01> 1> LZO not found; compiling OpenTTD without LZO is strongly disencouraged 12:24:34 <Wolf01> Hmmm, PNG and ZLIB too 12:24:48 <glx> ha yes you need to add stuff to the settings 12:25:03 <Wolf01> Oh, yes.. I had the old vcproj.user 12:25:14 <Wolf01> I think it's not valid anymore 12:25:17 <LordAro> glx: have you updated/rewritten the compile instructions on the wiki yet? 12:26:09 <glx> no, and I think the VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET trick is not in COMPILING.md either 12:27:19 <glx> Wolf01: VS probably have created a CMakeSettings.json file in openttd root 12:27:28 <nielsm> is it possible to set something in CMakeLists.txt to set a default VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET for windows? 12:27:58 *** EER has joined #openttd 12:28:28 <Wolf01> No json files there :( 12:28:28 <glx> if not set it defaults to <arch>-windows 12:28:43 <glx> ok manage configurations 12:29:23 <glx> oh there's a cmake menu in 2017 12:30:19 <glx> https://docs.microsoft.com/fr-fr/cpp/build/cmake-projects-in-visual-studio?view=vs-2017#cmake-configure-step 12:31:26 <glx> https://docs.microsoft.com/fr-fr/cpp/build/customize-cmake-settings?view=vs-2017 12:31:31 <glx> this link is better 12:33:24 <glx> so in the json you need to add a variable 12:33:56 <Wolf01> And change the build/install paths too, I don't want them in my user folder 12:34:07 <glx> "variables": [ 12:34:07 <glx> { 12:34:07 <glx> "name": "VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET", 12:34:08 <glx> "value": "x64-windows-static", 12:34:08 <glx> "type": "STRING" 12:34:09 <glx> } 12:34:09 <glx> ] 12:38:20 <glx> ha yes in 2019 it defaults to out\build and out\install in project root 12:41:19 *** EER has quit IRC 12:42:09 <Wolf01> I must go now, I'll try to fix it later 12:42:38 *** EER has joined #openttd 12:59:47 *** EER has quit IRC 13:00:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bl501 opened issue #8202: Crashes before opening on mac https://git.io/JfM1N 13:02:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8202: Crashes before opening on mac https://git.io/JfM1N 13:02:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8202: Crashes before opening on mac https://git.io/JfM1N 13:03:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8202: Crashes before opening on mac https://git.io/JfM1N 13:03:13 <nielsm> oh well 13:03:18 <LordAro> too slow :p 13:03:38 <nielsm> I went and did some bookeeping on #8066 as well 13:03:55 *** EER has joined #openttd 13:05:01 <glx> 10.12.8 ? 13:05:50 <LordAro> .6, yes 13:06:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] bl501 commented on issue #8066: 1.10.2 crashes on start in OS X 10.12.6 https://git.io/JvA3B 13:16:48 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 13:16:55 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 13:21:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 opened pull request #8203: Fix: Minor changes in bundle generation https://git.io/JfMMu 13:23:28 <glx> oups I made a silly error 13:24:32 <LordAro> glx: is there a particular issue with generating an installer for nightlies? 13:25:31 <glx> not really but I think installer are better for stable release only 13:26:32 <LordAro> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 13:29:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8203: Fix: Minor changes in bundle generation https://git.io/JfMMu 13:34:26 *** spnda has joined #openttd 13:42:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8203: Fix: Minor changes in bundle generation https://git.io/JfMDT 13:54:51 <michi_cc> LordAro: I think a nightly installer would actually not work properly at all, otherwise there wouldn't be a need to bump nstall.nsi each time. 13:55:18 <glx> we removed install.nsi 13:56:25 <michi_cc> Didn't check that yet. But still, how would the nightly a release track NSIS versions be distinguished? 14:02:09 <glx> and I think we don't set any "version", installer always use default 0.1.1 14:02:59 <michi_cc> Unless cmake/cpack does some behind-the-scenes magic, that should brake update installations as they depend on the installer/app version. 14:11:13 <spnda> anyone up to help debugging something with my NRS patch rendering seemingly random sprites? 14:11:17 <supermop_Home_> curfew lifted 14:13:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 dismissed a review for pull request #8203: Fix: Minor changes in bundle generation https://git.io/JfMDT 14:13:29 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 updated pull request #8203: Fix: Minor changes in bundle generation https://git.io/JfMMu 14:28:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #8199: CMake always export compile commands https://git.io/JfMSm 14:31:56 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottishlineside/30986315796/in/photostream/ 14:32:36 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: as a FYI, and if nothing changed in the last year in regards to how CMake uses NSIS, there is no "update" functionality. You install what-ever version you install, and the latest you install, is the one that is on your disk :) In result, the NSIS "version" doesn't matter as such 14:33:21 <TrueBrain> so possibly a better word would be: a self-extractor 14:34:08 <TrueBrain> the reason we used to bump the version in the installer.nsi, as far as I am aware, was just so the right-click -> info tab shows the right version 14:34:40 <michi_cc> Okay, because I think NSIS could also give a warning when e.g. installing an older version over a newer version, but if we don't make use of that the version really doesn't matter that much. 14:34:50 <glx> TrueBrain: we also prevented installing over a more recent 14:34:56 <TrueBrain> no, we never used these things in NSIS, as far as I know :) 14:35:13 <glx> I remember seeing the message box 14:35:15 <TrueBrain> at least, during CMake development, I installed many different versions over and over and over and over again :P Never got a warning :D 14:35:34 <TrueBrain> but, my info is more than a year old, so much might have changed :P 14:35:39 *** heffer has quit IRC 14:35:49 *** heffer has joined #openttd 14:36:00 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ +1 14:36:18 <TrueBrain> so yeah, I think a nightly NSIS version would be possible; even better if you allow both stable + nightly on your system ;) Would be more accessiable :) 14:36:20 *** tyteen4a03 has quit IRC 14:36:50 *** tyteen4a03 has joined #openttd 14:37:05 <TrueBrain> the other way would be to check NSIS and see if it indeed (can) warn(s) about older/newer versions :D 14:37:23 <TrueBrain> but NSIS is such a piece of crap ... wait, did I say that out loud? :P 14:38:17 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/56d54cf60eb5814f77dfcce91cf12879f01e1d1b/os/windows/installer/install.nsi#L735 ;) 14:38:46 <TrueBrain> glx: did that make it into CMake? 14:39:17 <glx> no, NSIS template doesn't have that 14:39:35 <TrueBrain> that explains why I never saw that :P 14:39:47 <TrueBrain> I honestly also think it is bullshit 14:39:54 <TrueBrain> if you want to downgrade, who is the installer to tell you not to 14:40:36 <michi_cc> Is the "copy TTD data from CD" option also gone then? 14:40:43 <glx> yes 14:40:46 <TrueBrain> yes; also the download opengfx part 14:40:48 <michi_cc> Not sure if anyone used it. 14:40:59 <TrueBrain> (as the bootstrap takes care of that) 14:41:46 <TrueBrain> with OpenGFX, I also think it is not the preferred method anymore :) 14:42:20 <TrueBrain> "try to find a CD which you won't have a drive for anymore .. or .. "buy" the game from an illegal website that makes money on distributing old games for money" .. not a fan :D 14:43:40 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth could go for one of these: http://www.touch-rail.com.tw/product/detail/id-150 14:44:14 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ is that Z scale? 14:45:02 * andythenorth wonders when the original base set copyright expires :P 14:45:04 <spnda> I need some serious help with drawing sprites. I'm using DrawCommonTileSeqInGUI. From the values I read in the VS Debugger, my sprites are properly passed and it doesn't look faulty. Then somewhere past DrawSprite *some* of my sprites get offset for some magic reason. Is there anything I need to know about DrawSprite? 14:45:07 <andythenorth> will it be before I'm dead? 14:45:17 <milek7> probably no 14:45:18 <supermop_Home_> i think it is N andy 14:46:12 <supermop_Home_> I have a push toy E200 i bought in Taipei in 2018 14:46:20 <supermop_Home_> very chibi 14:48:45 <supermop_Home_> http://www.touch-rail.com.tw/product/detail/id-13 14:50:24 <supermop_Home_> a Japanese gauge N layout would be nice - maybe add Taiwanese, Korean, trains 14:52:09 <supermop_Home_> probably only have room for this: https://www.amazon.com/T-Gauge-Model-Trains-Scale-Kansai/dp/B071LP1G4Y/ref=psdc_3244728011_t3_B0723C39S9 14:54:52 <EER> spnda: I don't have time today, but if you can describe it in a bit more detail I can try to dive into it somewhere in the upcoming week? I'm not that well versed in newgrf, but I don't give up easily so happy to dive into the deep end :) 15:00:11 * andythenorth BIAB 15:00:14 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:08:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Nik-mmzd opened issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option https://git.io/JfM9j 15:14:17 <nielsm> this looks problematic: https://0x0.st/iVP2.jpg 15:18:04 <supermop_Home_> haha 15:18:12 <glx> as long as they're attached together it should be ok :) 15:25:01 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:43:57 <spnda> so after 3 months of not finding the issue i finally fixed my NRS sprite loading... One step closer to NewGRF Roadstops 16:00:51 <EER> \o/ 16:11:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SHADOW-XIII opened issue #8205: Vehicles not sorted by cargo capacity when filtering specific cargo https://git.io/JfM74 16:17:26 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:25:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SHADOW-XIII opened issue #8206: Vehicle lists "Manage list" options inconsistent https://git.io/JfM79 16:26:01 <andythenorth> nielsm yugo cars on that wagon? o_O 16:28:49 <nielsm> it's the only model of passenger automobile that exists in derail valley 16:32:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] SHADOW-XIII commented on issue #8206: Vehicle lists "Manage list" options inconsistent https://git.io/JfM79 16:33:10 <Wolf01> Back 16:36:11 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8197: Fix: CPack source package creation https://git.io/JfM5e 16:58:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] telk5093 opened pull request #8207: Add: 'cheat' console command to open the cheat window https://git.io/JfM57 17:03:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8207: Add: 'cheat' console command to open the cheat window https://git.io/JfMdT 17:04:51 *** qwebirc71220 has joined #openttd 17:11:24 *** qwebirc71220 has quit IRC 17:21:16 *** Flygon has quit IRC 17:21:27 <Wolf01> Hmmm, no compile errors but says it can't load the title game because ZLIB is not available, I installed all the packages with vcpkg for the correct architecture 17:22:08 <glx> you cleared cmake cache ? 17:22:39 <Wolf01> Yes, it compiled without the old errors about libraries not available, maybe I should redo it again 17:22:51 <glx> and vcpkg packages are the same as before cmake switch 17:23:19 <glx> so if they worked before they should work now 17:26:58 <Wolf01> Cleaned the cmake cache: 1> -- Could NOT find ZLIB (missing: ZLIB_LIBRARY ZLIB_INCLUDE_DIR) 17:27:02 <Wolf01> Etc 17:27:40 <glx> you added the VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET variables ? 17:27:43 <Wolf01> Yes 17:28:00 <glx> for all configurations ? 17:28:02 <Wolf01> 1> CMake Warning: 17:28:02 <Wolf01> 1> Manually-specified variables were not used by the project: 17:28:02 <Wolf01> 1> 17:28:02 <Wolf01> 1> VCPKG_TARGET_TRIPLET 17:28:29 <Wolf01> I only ran debug x64 17:30:01 <glx> ah, I think for 2017 you also need to add CMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE pointing to "<vcpkg-dir>/scripts/buildsystems/vcpkg.cmake" 17:30:29 <Wolf01> As another variable? 17:30:32 <glx> yes 17:30:55 <glx> 2019 adds it implicitely 17:32:27 *** adikt has joined #openttd 17:32:35 <Wolf01> 1> CMake Warning: 17:32:35 <Wolf01> 1> Manually-specified variables were not used by the project: 17:32:35 <Wolf01> 1> 17:32:35 <Wolf01> 1> CMAKE_TOOLCHAIN_FILE 17:35:06 <glx> paste your CMakeSettings.json somewhere, there should be something wrong in it 17:36:00 <Wolf01> https://pastebin.com/iD9GdCKS 17:39:24 <glx> json is correct 17:44:33 <andythenorth> hmm 17:44:40 <andythenorth> I should do bigger industries 17:45:03 <andythenorth> wouldn't look right though, TTD style is about 5x4 or so 17:47:53 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 17:57:02 <glx> Wolf01: maybe replace all / with \ 17:57:47 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:59:05 <glx> but both should work, they are mixed in the command generated by VS for me 18:00:56 <Wolf01> I just tried with /, before they were all \ 18:02:12 <Wolf01> vcpkg packages are there, but it seem it doesn't find them 18:08:20 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 18:21:05 <Wolf01> Do I need to have vcpkg in path? 18:23:37 <TrueBrain> glx: nightly failed :( 18:26:29 <Wolf01> Yes, it was path, now it compiled fine 18:27:10 <Wolf01> Git shows a lot of changes, most of them should be ignored, if not all 18:27:19 <spnda> oh yes the NotRoadStops patch works now. Ayyy 18:28:20 <andythenorth> :) 18:30:37 *** Tirili has quit IRC 18:34:06 <Wolf01> spnda: pics or didn't happen :P 18:36:44 *** Speeder has joined #openttd 18:37:56 <Speeder> how popular are stockpiling style industries? 18:38:04 <Speeder> specially ones that block excessive deliveries 18:41:07 <nielsm> I don't think anyone has numbers on popularity like that 18:52:30 <Speeder> changing the question then... does it break the game badly industries that have delivery limit? 18:54:44 <nielsm> I don't consider it breaking the game, but it does change some core mechanics and players not used to it will have to re-learn some things 18:57:02 <Speeder> I never played with stuff like that myself, so... what sort of things change? for example, how you change your trains orders so they don't freakout at the situation? 18:58:48 <frosch123> i doubt people who care about that would play with such industries 18:59:14 <frosch123> i think they are more a thing for model railway people 19:01:08 <Speeder> frosch123, what y ou mean? 19:02:25 <frosch123> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#project-goals <- some years ago i wrote an essay about 4 types of ottd players 19:02:55 <frosch123> it's the second itemization in that section 19:03:01 <michi_cc> PBI used to be quite popular, but probably not by people focused on optimizing their free-flowing, no-stopping super-mainline. 19:04:00 <Speeder> ok, got it a bit better what you mean, still not understanding it completely 19:04:33 <andythenorth> I enjoyed PBI 19:04:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: even the limited livespan of mines? 19:04:54 <andythenorth> somewhat 19:04:54 <Speeder> so to explain my goal first... I am trying to make a map that is a part of Brazil, but where most of the population live. (I think the map has about a third of Brazil's area, and something like 80% of the population) 19:05:01 <andythenorth> but FIRS was initially a collaborative project, and was oriented to coop style play 19:05:11 <Speeder> the scenario will start in 1700, and as it advances industries will be built in their historic locations 19:05:21 <andythenorth> frosch123 I wouldn't play it now, but it's nice that changing content keeps the game fresh 19:05:35 <andythenorth> there's no ultimate OpenTTD game mechanic :) 19:05:41 <frosch123> Speeder: did you ever play in 1700? 19:05:57 <Speeder> frosch123, I did some test runs of my map, and played a bit with the intended NewGRFs on a random map :) 19:06:10 <Speeder> on my map it was quite fun with sailing ships available 19:06:16 <Speeder> because the map is river-heavy 19:06:37 <frosch123> sure, but isn't it enough to start in 1850 and have > 50 years of that? 19:07:23 <Speeder> I found it fun in this case, beacuse of drastic economic changes that happened, yet in a way that 1700 left a lasting legacy 19:08:09 <Speeder> brazil 1700 to 1850 resemble a lot the "in a hot country" economy of firs 19:08:57 <Speeder> but the 1950+ one resemble a lot "steeltown" Iwould say 19:08:57 <spnda> Wolf01: https://imgur.com/a/TMLVAHm 19:09:07 <Speeder> yet... Brazil still exports heavily, same thing it did in 1700 19:09:13 <Speeder> I found that fascinating 19:09:20 <spnda> I have a few other screenshots. Also trams and lorries are also working fine. 19:09:25 <spnda> I've also added a few extra neat features 19:09:32 <spnda> One of them is yet to be fully finished 19:09:37 <spnda> It allows for one way stations 19:09:53 <spnda> So I am really hyped when this comes out 19:09:58 <spnda> What kind of GRFs people will make 19:10:46 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 19:11:23 <spnda> Also I have a bool value that tells the game if it should render the roads or not, so that should allow for people to make some non-road stops, if they want. 19:11:29 <spnda> or some special roads.... who knows 19:12:59 <spnda> Also here for the trams: https://imgur.com/a/alaR2cb (yes the scrollbar is broken, ik) 19:13:58 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 19:18:00 <Speeder> can someone explain to me how production_rate from nml5 works? 19:18:01 <glx> Wolf01: ah I don't have vcpkg in my path, but I used "vcpkg integrate install" which should have a similar effect 19:18:05 <glx> TrueBrain: how ? 19:18:05 <Speeder> the wiki is unclear 19:20:35 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 19:24:38 <Wolf01> glx: I did that too, but it only started to work after adding vcpkg to path 19:25:55 <Wolf01> spnda: nice :D 19:31:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8207: Add: 'cheat' console command to open the cheat window https://git.io/JfMA8 19:32:31 <spnda> Could it be, that "RoadTypeIsRoad()" only works for custom NRT roadtypes? 19:39:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8207: Add: 'cheat' console command to open the cheat window https://git.io/JfMA2 19:45:38 <spnda> huh the check for RoadTypeIsTram works, but it doesn't for RoadTypeIsRoad 19:45:50 <spnda> Is this some issue? 19:46:31 <Wolf01> spnda: I think it has a specific usage 19:47:05 <spnda> I'm using it the same way as in StationPickerDrawSprite for example. You can look at it in station_cmd.cpp#3059 19:47:07 <Wolf01> As always no documentation about it 19:47:15 <spnda> The if (RoadTypeIsTram(roadtype)) works 19:47:25 <spnda> The following (RoadTypeIsRoad(roadtype)) does not. 19:48:06 <Wolf01> The functions are really similar, they return inverted result 19:48:44 <spnda> Yes I know 19:49:02 <spnda> ROADTYPE_BEGIN is not a road apparently 19:49:06 <spnda> ROADTYPE_TRAM is a tram 19:49:09 <spnda> So tram checks work 19:49:31 <spnda> why is it ROADTYPE_BEGIN anyway... 19:49:43 <Wolf01> ROADTYPE_BEGIN means no road at all iirc 19:49:51 <spnda> huh 19:49:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] twpol commented on issue #8095: Feature suggestion: option to automatically space out vehicles in a shared order https://git.io/JfIUi 19:49:56 <spnda> yeah there's ROADTYPE_ROAD 19:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause> BEGIN/END is for for-loops 19:50:09 <spnda> both ROADTYPE_BEGIN and ROADTYPE_ROAD are 0 19:50:11 <spnda> Well yes 19:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you shouldn't use them anywhere else 19:50:36 <spnda> But I just took "_cur_roadtype" from the road_gui.cpp 19:50:37 <Wolf01> Does the grf redefine standard road? 19:50:40 <spnda> and that gave me ROADTYPE_BEGIN 19:50:51 <spnda> Nope, it only defines roadstops 19:51:01 <Wolf01> Yeah, with enums it returns the first occurrence 19:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> you should read that as ROADTYPE_ROAD 19:51:43 <spnda> I never changed that 19:51:59 <spnda> one second 19:52:15 <Wolf01> You have other nrt grfs? 19:52:30 <spnda> Using NRT it works just fine 19:52:36 <spnda> Just if I don't use any NRT GRFs it breaks 19:52:44 <spnda> I'm gonna check if the latest master has this 19:53:54 <spnda> Yeah it does 19:53:59 <spnda> I never changed this 19:54:12 <spnda> but the default roadtype that the road guy gets is ROADTYPE_BEGIN and not ROADTYPE_ROAD 19:54:17 <spnda> gui not guy lol 19:54:51 <Wolf01> Yes, that's known, it's for every enum with duplicated values 19:55:15 <spnda> well how am I gonna get ROADTYPE_ROAD then 19:55:20 <spnda> Because i obviously need that 19:55:27 <Eddi|zuHause> BEGIN and ROAD is the same value, the debugger is just confused which one of those it should display 19:55:36 <Wolf01> You don't, you can just write 0 19:57:00 <spnda> huh 19:57:04 <spnda> ok that wasn't that 20:00:53 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:16:53 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 20:29:00 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 20:36:57 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 20:43:58 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 20:49:30 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 20:50:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on issue #8095: Feature suggestion: option to automatically space out vehicles in a shared order https://git.io/JfIUi 20:52:14 <arikover> I'm having problems with CMake... I can compile without problem, except there is no sound effects ingame (MIDI works though). I tried installing Allegro and the sound was here, but the performances were far better with SDL2. So it's either "no sound" or "sluggish". 20:52:37 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 20:52:42 <arikover> I'm clearly missing something here. 20:56:47 <milek7> is this related to cmake? 21:01:23 <arikover> I think so, because I did not have the problem with the configure script. 21:02:51 <arikover> I'm pretty sure it is trivial to solve, but I clearly suck at this. 21:08:06 <nielsm> collect your cmake logs and the generated configuration files, maybe we can diagnose it with that 21:09:45 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 21:13:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on issue #8095: Feature suggestion: option to automatically space out vehicles in a shared order https://git.io/JfIUi 21:23:10 <spnda> Also, when and how will I be able to edit the wiki to add this roadstop documentation? 21:27:31 <FLHerne> spnda: What stops you from editing the wiki? 21:28:15 <FLHerne> spnda: I guess you'd edit it ASAP after it's merged 21:28:36 <andythenorth> there is a known problem for newgrf with no solution currently 21:28:56 <andythenorth> no wiki docs means nobody knows what the feature is supposed to do 21:29:03 <andythenorth> so it doesn't get tested 21:29:14 <andythenorth> and it can't go in the wiki until it's merged 21:29:23 <andythenorth> but it can't be merged until it's tested 21:29:57 <FLHerne> Speeder: What's unclear about the wiki? 21:30:02 <spnda> FLHerne: Does everyone have permission? Oh that makes it quite a bit easier 21:31:19 <andythenorth> maybe we could solve this with 'draft' wiki pages? but most patches don't go anywhere 21:31:33 <andythenorth> or we could have docs attached to the PR in wiki format 21:31:41 * andythenorth dunno :) 21:31:44 <Speeder> FLHerne, the initial value is same as what you set, but then change with production... if that is literal, it means the other part of the wiki is wrong, where it says what you set as production is multiplied by the prod level 21:33:10 <andythenorth> Speeder eh what? :) 21:33:18 <andythenorth> which version of the spec are you using? 21:33:38 <FLHerne> production_rate("STUF") tells you the amount of STUF currently being produced from produce_256_ticks, AIUI 21:33:53 <FLHerne> Speeder: production_level is something completely different 21:34:08 <andythenorth> there are multiple confusing terms historically 21:34:15 <andythenorth> prod level, prod multiplier etc 21:34:30 <andythenorth> they're all different things 21:34:51 <andythenorth> but defining the actual production is simple 21:36:24 <michi_cc> Also, in terms of specs, the authoritative wording is usually supposed to be in the "NewGRF Specs" part, not the "NML Specs" part. Of course, in an ideal world you're not going to find a discrepancy between them. 21:37:28 <andythenorth> nml support tends to run behind nfo in timing 21:38:33 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:38:53 <Speeder> For the given cargo label, amount of output cargo that is produced every 256 ticks. Initial value from the cargo_types property, but it will change accordingly when the production level changes. Returns 0..255. Example: 21:39:46 <andythenorth> probably (prod_multiplier / 16) * prod_level 21:39:49 <andythenorth> iirc 21:40:02 <andythenorth> openttd changes prod_level 21:40:06 <Speeder> produce_cargo("GOOD", 4) specifies the industry produces GOOD at a rate of 4 every production tick (256 game ticks), this production rate is scaled by the industry's production level. 21:40:09 <andythenorth> when depends on economy seting 21:40:19 <andythenorth> and what the newgrf does 21:40:42 <FLHerne> michi_cc: The NML specs are authoritative for what nmlc is supposed to do? 21:40:43 <michi_cc> "The properties specify the amount produced at default production level, they are scaled equally on production changes." 21:40:49 <nielsm> but if the industry has the periodic production callback defined then the normal production rules don't matter 21:40:53 <Speeder> to me these two phrases I understand as: first time you read "production_rate" it will mean in the example, 4 21:41:00 <Speeder> but when you double production levle, it will return 8 21:41:03 <andythenorth> yes 21:41:14 <Speeder> but since production level default is 16, production level now will be 32 21:41:18 <andythenorth> if it helps, read about the monthly / random production change cbs 21:41:25 <andythenorth> cbs = callbacks 21:41:28 <andythenorth> in the nfo docs 21:41:49 <Speeder> but doens't this mean production will scale up exponentially? 21:41:55 <nielsm> yes 21:42:05 <Speeder> so "good" for example, start producing 4*16 21:42:06 <nielsm> the original production change rules are x2 x2 21:42:08 <Speeder> then if you double production 21:42:13 <Speeder> it will produce 8*32 21:42:30 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:42:31 <andythenorth> smooth economy was an attempt to address this 21:42:37 <michi_cc> FLHerne: No, but if the description for e.g. when a callback is called differs between the NML wiki part and the GRF wiki part, I'd believe the GRF part first. 21:42:44 <andythenorth> the grf part is canon 21:42:53 <andythenorth> nml docs often aren't accurate even for nml 21:43:04 <andythenorth> they tend to be a complete PITA to maintain 21:43:11 <michi_cc> And most NML props and callback map directly to GRF without any pre-processing. 21:43:17 <andythenorth> frankly I'm amazed they're as good as they are, thanks to those who did them :) 21:45:12 <Speeder> so... does "doubling" production level actually quadruples output? 21:45:19 <FLHerne> > but since production level default is 16, production level now will be 32 21:45:23 <FLHerne> Why? 21:45:47 <Speeder> FLHerne, what doubling production level variable do? 21:46:11 <Speeder> for example CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_DOUBLE 21:47:36 <michi_cc> If you start with 4*16, it will be 4*32 after. 21:47:52 <FLHerne> Ok, I see what you mean, but still don't really understand your point 21:48:14 <FLHerne> If you repeatedly double the production level it'll be exponential, yes 21:48:54 <FLHerne> But you could also increment it, or set it to a specific value calculated in some other way 21:49:15 <FLHerne> And I don't see how production_rate is relevant here at all 21:49:43 <FLHerne> It's just a way to check the result of what you've already done 21:50:25 <FLHerne> CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_MULTIPLY_BY_32 <- that would be seriously exponential 21:50:44 * FLHerne wonders if any grf has ever used that, and why :p 21:52:08 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:55:50 * andythenorth has not :D 21:59:33 <Speeder> that is not what I mean 21:59:35 <spnda> from where are tiles rendered? 21:59:38 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 21:59:42 <Speeder> what I mean is the other variable, that returns 4 at first 21:59:52 <spnda> like from where are roadstops as a tile rendered 21:59:55 <Speeder> if you double prod level, it goes from 16 to 32 22:00:01 <Speeder> but the other variable goes from 4, to 8 22:00:07 <Speeder> thus you actually quadrupled production 22:01:04 <michi_cc> No, if the production level changes, the production multiplier does not. The resulting production changes. 22:02:36 <Speeder> what production multiplier? 22:02:53 <michi_cc> Your 4. 22:04:13 <michi_cc> And of course all this only applies if you use default production behaviour. If a production callback us used, none of that matters. 22:05:51 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:06:20 <Speeder> michi_cc, so, production_rate cargo label from the cargotable NML 0.5 For the given cargo label, amount of output cargo that is produced every 256 ticks. Initial value from the cargo_types property, but it will change accordingly when the production level changes. Returns 0..255. Example: production_rate("SUGR"). 22:06:22 <Speeder> this line is wrong? 22:08:08 <Eddi|zuHause> which part of that should be wrong? 22:08:47 <michi_cc> I don't know offhand which VA2 variable that maps to, but I'm quite sure that returns the resulting production, i.e. multiplier * level. 22:09:43 <michi_cc> This is not the same as the value from the produce_cargo property. 22:09:44 <Speeder> Eddi|zuHause, it says two things: 1. it will return the initial value at first (so for my example earlier, 4), and then that it will return later, the value changed as production level changes. 22:10:26 <michi_cc> production = multiplier * level / 16. Default for level is 16. 22:10:48 <FLHerne> Speeder: production_rate tells you what the current production rate *is* 22:10:54 <FLHerne> It doesn't set it 22:11:15 <michi_cc> The one thing wrong in this line is that a callback exists that allows to change the inital level from 16 to something else. 22:12:01 <glx> production_rate is given by openttd, you don't change it yourself 22:12:20 <glx> well you don't modify it directly 22:12:58 <Speeder> so step by step: 1: produce_cargo("GOOD", 4) 2: production_rate("GOOD") returns 4, production_level is 16. 3: a callback returns CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_DOUBLE, production_rate("GOOD") returns 8, production_level is 32 22:13:53 <FLHerne> That sounds right 22:13:56 <FLHerne> I think 22:14:25 <Speeder> FLHerne, this is what I understood from the wiki. thing is, doing this way it means doubling production level, results in 4x output, not 2x 22:14:35 <Speeder> get it now? 22:14:38 <FLHerne> And now you've lost me again 22:14:50 <FLHerne> production has gone from 16 to 32 22:14:55 <FLHerne> it's doubled 22:14:56 <Speeder> I will try again my step by step 22:15:00 <michi_cc> The 8 IS the production. 22:15:05 <Speeder> 1: produce_cargo("GOOD", 4) 22:15:19 <glx> 8 is 2*4, so doubled 22:15:30 <Speeder> 2: production_rate("GOOD") returns 4, production_level variable is 16. Thus actual output is 4*16 22:15:45 <FLHerne> So far, so good 22:15:55 <glx> 4*16/16 ;) 22:16:05 <Speeder> 3: a callback retruned CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_DOUBLE 22:16:24 <Speeder> 4: production_rate("GOOD") returns 8, production_level variable is 16. Actual output is 8*32 22:16:39 <Speeder> 4: production_rate("GOOD") returns 8, production_level variable is 32. Actual output is 8*32 22:16:58 <glx> no it's 4*32/16 22:17:18 <Speeder> glx, what is 4*32/16? 22:17:22 <Speeder> the output? 22:17:31 <FLHerne> Speeder: > 4: production_rate("GOOD") returns 8, production_level variable is 16. Actual output is 8*32 is wrong 22:17:41 <Speeder> FLHerne, that line was a typo 22:17:46 <Speeder> I mean the one right after it 22:17:50 <glx> production_rate is the actual output 22:18:01 <FLHerne> Speeder: That one is also wrong 22:18:14 <Speeder> glx, so the initial value is NOT, what you set? 22:18:26 <FLHerne> Speeder: Again, > production_rate tells you what the current production rate *is*, it doesn't set it 22:18:37 <andythenorth> var not prop 22:18:39 <FLHerne> Speeder: It's a variable, you read it 22:18:43 <Speeder> FLHerne, I don't understand why you keep saying that 22:18:53 <FLHerne> It tells you how much cargo the industry is producing 22:19:02 <Speeder> I never used that to set anything 22:19:03 <FLHerne> The value isn't fed back into anything 22:19:10 <Speeder> I used produce_cargo to set 22:19:19 <FLHerne> Ten why are you saying " 8*32"? 22:19:23 <michi_cc> Speeder: production_rate("GOOD") is the value AFTER production_level is applied, not before. 22:19:23 <FLHerne> *then 22:19:26 <andythenorth> I had this *exact* conversation with dalestan when I started FIRS :P 22:19:27 <FLHerne> It's still 4 22:19:52 <FLHerne> You haven't changed the produce_cargo 22:20:02 <Speeder> michi_cc, so... when it says the INITIAL VALUE, is whatever you set using produce_cargo 22:20:35 <andythenorth> are you just saying production_rate has a bug Speeder? :) 22:20:36 <Speeder> it means produce_cargo value is fudged before saving? 22:20:45 <Speeder> andythenorth, I am trying to understand the wiki 22:20:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you're not making any sense 22:21:00 <michi_cc> produce_cargo is a NewGRF property, not something that is stored in any savegame. 22:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> "initial value" usually comes from some property, and some callback can change it 22:21:17 <andythenorth> nml or nfo wiki? 22:21:24 <Speeder> from wiki: production_rate: Initial value from the cargo_types property, but it will change accordingly when the production level changes. 22:21:46 <Speeder> so in cargo_types you used: produce_cargo("GOOD", 4) 22:21:48 <FLHerne> ...yes? 22:22:03 <Speeder> thus production_rate("GOOD") will return 4? 22:22:04 <andythenorth> when game starts 22:22:22 <andythenorth> production rate is (prod_multiplier / 16) * prod_level 22:22:24 <FLHerne> Because production_rate is based on both the multiplier and the level 22:22:25 <michi_cc> For an industry directly after construction. 22:22:29 <andythenorth> and prod_level is 16 at game start 22:22:58 <Speeder> what multiplier? 22:23:06 <michi_cc> Again, your 4. 22:23:22 *** mobail has joined #openttd 22:23:30 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:23:37 <andythenorth> I would *always* use this page https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Production_multipliers_.2812.2C_13.29 22:23:39 <michi_cc> produce_cargo("GOOD", 4) IS NOT the production_rate. 22:23:43 <glx> multiplier is produce_cargo 22:23:46 <andythenorth> you can't learn any actual coding from the nml docs 22:24:06 <Speeder> michi_cc, production rate "initial value" then refers to WHAT ? 22:24:14 <Speeder> it says it is intial from "cargo_types" 22:24:16 <michi_cc> (prod_multiplier / 16) * prod_level 22:24:29 <Speeder> then the wiki is wrong 22:24:33 <andythenorth> no 22:24:40 <andythenorth> but don't use the nml wiki 22:24:42 <michi_cc> With inital value of prod_level being 16. 22:24:48 *** mobail has quit IRC 22:24:58 <andythenorth> nml wiki is just for looking up names of action 0 / varaction 2 / callbacks 22:25:08 <andythenorth> (imho) 22:25:12 <andythenorth> others may disagree 22:25:29 <andythenorth> use the actual spec 22:25:39 <andythenorth> this for vars https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Industries 22:25:50 <andythenorth> this for props https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries 22:25:52 <FLHerne> Speeder: The value returned by production_rate is initially the same as you set in cargo_types 22:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it heavily depends whether you want a specification or an explanation. the two things are often not identical 22:26:08 <FLHerne> When you change the production_level, it isn't the same anymore 22:26:43 <Eddi|zuHause> an explanation tends to simplify things, while a specification must be as detailed as possible 22:26:47 <Speeder> FLHerne, so it IS, or NOT, initially, the same as "produce_cargo" ? 22:27:03 <FLHerne> But that doesn't affect the value you set in cargo_types 22:27:06 <glx> initialy it's the same 22:27:23 <FLHerne> Are you confused about the definition of "initially" ? 22:27:27 <Speeder> why it is the same? 22:27:34 <Speeder> what is the actual formula then? 22:27:40 <andythenorth> as posted several times above 22:27:48 <glx> because prod_level start value is 16 22:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> the formula was written like 4 times already 22:27:51 <andythenorth> (prod_multiplier / 16) * prod_level 22:28:26 <andythenorth> I was really confused by prod_multiplier and prod_level when I started FIRS 22:28:39 <andythenorth> and that was prior to nml 22:28:48 <andythenorth> nml makes it worse by renaming the concepts 22:29:05 <Speeder> so is this line in the wiki, that is ambiguous: produce_cargo("GOOD", 4) specifies the industry produces GOOD at a rate of 4 every production tick (256 game ticks), this production rate is scaled by the industry's production level. 22:29:06 <andythenorth> otoh, the original names aren't always great 22:29:18 <michi_cc> Technically, the NML wiki is indeed wrong, because it ignores the existence of callback 0x15F, which may be used the change the "initial value" of prod_level from 16 to something else. 22:29:32 <andythenorth> Speeder the line is 100% true but not easy to read 22:29:57 <FLHerne> Hm, I think it's "this production rate" that's confusing 22:30:07 <Speeder> that line implies final result is whatever you set * 16 (since elsewhere it says that is the initial production level) 22:30:11 <FLHerne> "this production rate" has nothing to do with the production_rate variable 22:30:47 <michi_cc> Speeder: No, because production_level is a fixed point value with 4 fractional bits. 22:31:02 <andythenorth> michi_cc :P 22:31:03 <Speeder> michi_cc, O.O 22:31:33 <andythenorth> it can be 16, 1/16, or 16 * 16 22:31:33 <michi_cc> Which is why people have repeatedly wrote about "/ 16". 22:31:59 <andythenorth> Speeder it *is* confusing yes 22:32:02 <andythenorth> stick with it 22:32:05 <andythenorth> you'll get there 22:32:09 <Speeder> that is what I mean, the /16 is not mentioned in the wiki 22:32:13 <andythenorth> yes 22:32:21 <andythenorth> I looked it up in openttd src 22:32:29 <michi_cc> But it is, just indirectly by the word "scaled". 22:32:38 <andythenorth> I quite often ignore the newgrf docs and read the src in industry_cmd.cpp 22:32:39 <Speeder> michi_cc, thus why I said that thing is ambiguous 22:33:09 <glx> it's implicit because production can be halved too 22:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Speeder: imagine it like %. if you give a factor of 5, the result will be 500% 22:33:22 <glx> your initial 4 can be 2 22:33:33 <andythenorth> speeder's mind is blow :) 22:33:36 <andythenorth> blown * 22:33:50 <glx> or 8 depending on production level evolution 22:33:52 <andythenorth> irc is hard medium to get taught with 22:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i still have no real clue which part he's struggling with 22:34:36 <andythenorth> conceptually understanding what is going on 22:34:37 <michi_cc> "scaled" means "is proportional to", not "is multiplied with". Thus, the inital default of the production level is irrelevant. 22:34:57 <Speeder> Eddi|zuHause, it is the /16 formula is not mentioned on the wiki 22:35:05 <andythenorth> we could change that 22:35:07 <Speeder> michi is correct 22:35:09 <andythenorth> it may not help :) 22:35:16 <Speeder> but for a non-english speaker that might not be 100% obvious 22:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> why does the wiki have to mention the /16? 22:35:24 <Speeder> changing "scaled" to "proportional" for example would help 22:36:06 <Speeder> Eddi|zuHause, because the way the wiki is written implies production_rate is the same as the multiplier 22:36:12 <Speeder> when it isn't 22:37:24 <michi_cc> I'd say it exactly does not imply that: " Initial value from the cargo_types property, but it will change accordingly when the production level changes." 22:38:05 <michi_cc> "will change accordingly" is to me quite clearly saying that if production level e.g. doubles, production rate doubles. 22:41:02 <FLHerne> michi_cc: But the cargo types array paragraph says "...this production rate is scaled by..." when describing the multiplier 22:43:02 <michi_cc> Which I would not read as equivalence either. 22:44:51 <FLHerne> michi_cc: It's very confusing to describe the multiplier as "this production rate" when production_rate has a completely different meaning and the multiplier isn't the production rate :p 22:44:55 <Speeder> FLHerne, well, you got what my gripe with the wiki is :D 22:46:15 <michi_cc> But is is the initial production rate unless you use callback 0x15F to change the initial production level. 22:46:25 <supermop_Home_> andythenorth these Scottish 37s are very pretty 22:46:43 <supermop_Home_> but like do they have no other locomotives up there? 22:46:53 <michi_cc> NML seems to call that CB build_prod_change 22:47:01 <FLHerne> michi_cc: Not really 22:47:17 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ it's a very specific requirement for high power, low axle load on that route 22:47:23 <glx> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Input_cargo_multiplier_list_.2828.29 <-- when you don't understand something in nml, always check on nfo 22:47:25 <andythenorth> most locomotives can't do it 22:47:28 <FLHerne> It's initially *equal to* the production rate, but it's semantically a different thing 22:47:34 <glx> The properties specify the amount produced at default production level, they are scaled equally on production changes. 22:47:45 *** EER has quit IRC 22:48:03 <FLHerne> And it stops being equal whenever the production level changes, which is what makes it a semantically different thing 22:48:12 <andythenorth> supermop_Home_ this though :P https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYGJhhec-pc 22:52:37 <andythenorth> oof sleeping time 22:52:38 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:54:18 <FLHerne> Oh, good plan 23:02:28 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 23:24:29 <arikover> nielsm: Thank you for your quick answer, and sorry, I dozed off. I'll be posting the logs tomorrow... 23:24:41 <arikover> Bye, good night! 23:24:44 *** arikover has quit IRC 23:24:48 *** spnda has quit IRC