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00:04:22 *** lastmikoi_ has joined #openttd 00:04:50 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 00:04:50 *** lastmikoi_ is now known as lastmikoi 00:16:37 *** spnda has quit IRC 00:25:15 *** tokai has joined #openttd 00:25:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 01:12:33 *** Extrems` has joined #openttd 01:13:41 *** Extrems has quit IRC 01:13:41 *** Extrems` is now known as Extrems 01:59:31 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 01:59:32 *** glx is now known as Guest1897 01:59:32 *** glx_ is now known as glx 02:04:05 *** glx has quit IRC 02:06:03 *** Guest1897 has quit IRC 02:14:18 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:17:42 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:44:00 *** larryf has quit IRC 02:46:31 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:06:30 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8224: Cleanup: Remove redundant implementation of TakeScreenshot https://git.io/JJepq 03:14:26 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:22:21 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:01:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz closed pull request #8214: WIP: Refactor gfx engine's dirty block system https://git.io/JfS3n 04:01:20 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8214: WIP: Refactor gfx engine's dirty block system https://git.io/JJeh8 05:37:31 *** keoz has joined #openttd 05:48:25 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:32:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8236: Fix #7772: Show destination on mouseover when vehicle stopped (and not in depot) https://git.io/JJvvh 06:45:46 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 06:45:59 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 06:58:24 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:01:40 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:02:22 <andythenorth> moin 07:26:12 <TrueBrain> hello andythenorth :) 07:28:17 <TrueBrain> hmm .. so only a few more services to move from self-managed to AWS .. mostly maser-server, eints and wiki .. all other sites are mostly simple redirects. That is good :) 07:28:33 <TrueBrain> and a ton of things like: svn-archive, flyspray, etc .. do we want to keep them available .. 07:28:53 <TrueBrain> owh, and security.openttd.org needs its own static website ofc .. but that should be easy .. clone www.openttd.org, and modify it a tiny bit 07:29:19 <TrueBrain> the most difficult one is going to be email 07:34:23 <andythenorth> gmail :P 07:34:32 <TrueBrain> pretty expensive tbh .. like all others 07:35:14 <andythenorth> £4 / user / month 07:35:18 <andythenorth> yes, expensive 07:35:28 <andythenorth> lots of things we don't need 07:36:29 <andythenorth> hmm all the 'buy it done' email hosts seem to be $ / user / month 07:37:00 <TrueBrain> I think I can get a single o365 exchange online plan, add openttd.org to it, and add forwards on it 07:37:08 <TrueBrain> I will have to test that out tbh 07:37:50 <TrueBrain> the only issue with that is, that emailing FROM an openttd.org account is difficult (SPF and all) 07:44:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:45:52 <dP> Yandex.Mail for domain seems to still be free 07:46:01 <andythenorth> how much email needs to be sent? :) 07:46:09 <TrueBrain> info@ for one 07:47:38 <TrueBrain> dP: never heard of Yandex; any good? 07:48:01 <dP> TrueBrain, it's basically a russian google 07:48:12 <TrueBrain> that .. doesn't sound like a good solution :P 07:48:50 <nielsm> yandex mail has a non-zero risk of being blocked arbitrarily 07:49:03 <nielsm> at least a few years ago it was a very common source of spam 07:49:51 <dP> TrueBrain, it's a big company with good products, just, well, russian :p 07:50:29 <andythenorth> like Kaspersy? 07:50:42 <andythenorth> :P 07:50:53 <TrueBrain> anyway, I can only find you can create a single account; we would need multiple on the same domain 07:51:14 <andythenorth> Rackspace have / user 07:51:25 <andythenorth> you can do it with Mailgun, but it's not really what Mailgun is for 07:51:53 <andythenorth> time vs. money :P 07:55:33 <nielsm> www.mxhotel.dk is rather cheap mail hosting, the provider is reliable 07:55:44 <nielsm> I'm not sure they have terms in english though 07:56:01 <nielsm> I know one of the server techs at the company tho 07:56:58 <TrueBrain> that website doesn't look inviting :D 07:56:59 <TrueBrain> ghehe 07:57:05 <nielsm> very oldschool 07:57:54 <nielsm> I can maybe ask if they want to sponsor too... how many addresses is needed? 07:57:56 <TrueBrain> mainly, I would like to solve three things: 1) move mail somewhere we don't have to maintain it, 2) allow a developer to send mail on behave of <hisname>@openttd.org and info@openttd.org, 3) have a decent spam protection 07:58:22 <TrueBrain> as many developers there are .. which changes over time :) 07:58:46 <TrueBrain> most mail providers only have that you can make 1 account, and not administrator a domain of accounts 07:59:01 <andythenorth> gmail :P 07:59:07 <andythenorth> then we can make spreadsheets too 07:59:13 <andythenorth> for all of our monthly meetings 07:59:27 <TrueBrain> well, cost is a factor,for some silly reason :P 07:59:33 <andythenorth> and we could do video calls, using whichever version of Hangouts doesn't work this month 07:59:42 <nielsm> yeah mxhotel.dk pricing is you can have as many addresses/aliases per domain as you want, but pay 0.05 DKK/day per 08:00:10 <TrueBrain> I guess 3) is the biggest question with a random mail hoster ;) 08:00:15 * andythenorth should do something useful, instead of talking nonsense 08:00:19 * andythenorth -> newgrfs 08:00:29 <TrueBrain> this is what I like about gmail / microsoft365, etc .. their hive-anti-spam is just better :P 08:00:46 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: same thing different subject :P 08:01:05 <andythenorth> oof :P 08:01:29 <TrueBrain> nielsm: but yeah, as long as developers can have their own mailbox with their own password, I am what-ever :) 08:02:10 <nielsm> e.g 15 addresses with 1000 MB shared storage space would be around €80/year 08:02:40 <nielsm> make that €90 08:02:51 <TrueBrain> well, that would be the cheapest so far :P 08:03:15 <dP> TrueBrain, you can have 1000 mailboxes per domain on yandex for free, or so they say: https://connect.yandex.ru/pdd_old/?ncrnd=3864#!faq/q1 08:03:33 <TrueBrain> I do not speak russian, it turns out 08:04:04 <dP> TrueBrain, does it show link in russian? there is a language switch in the bottom 08:04:09 *** Samu has joined #openttd 08:04:20 <TrueBrain> wow, that is hidden :P 08:04:34 <Samu> hi 08:04:46 <dP> I'm more surprised it didn't link english version 08:04:57 <TrueBrain> silly cookie-based language switches or something 08:04:59 <TrueBrain> bad for caching 08:07:14 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:14:32 <TrueBrain> meh; WSL2 doesn't forward UDP it seems .. sad 08:15:30 <Wolf01> Meh 08:17:41 <Wolf01> I'm still waiting for an integrated x server so I don't need to use vcxsrv 08:18:29 <TrueBrain> but it is so much faster .... holy crap 08:20:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton commented on issue #8162: Converting town-owned road returns ambiguous/unhelpful error message https://git.io/Jfu9j 08:22:44 <TrueBrain> lol @ dedicated server .. I didn't compile zlib, because, fuck zlib 08:22:50 <TrueBrain> but ... now I cannot use the dedicated server 08:22:52 <TrueBrain> despite me using -g 08:22:54 <TrueBrain> wuth? 08:23:01 <TrueBrain> dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed 08:23:01 <TrueBrain> Internal error: Loader for 'zlib' is not available. 08:23:07 <TrueBrain> but but .. I DONT WANT YOU TO LOAD ANYTHING :( 08:23:37 <TrueBrain> also no clue what it is trying to load tbh :P 08:23:38 <dP> TrueBrain, yeah, it may still want to load a titlegame... few times... 08:23:54 <TrueBrain> there is no titlegame in my folder .. 08:24:31 <TrueBrain> ah, it was in another folder 08:24:34 <TrueBrain> removing it doesn't work either 08:24:35 <TrueBrain> bah :P 08:24:40 <LordAro> mm, it still uses the titlegame, even with -g 08:24:42 <LordAro> it's annoying 08:24:43 <TrueBrain> dbg: [sl] Game Load Failed 08:24:43 <TrueBrain> File not readable 08:24:47 <TrueBrain> it is a bug, I would say :) 08:27:26 <Wolf01> Btw WSL2 will be installed with 2004 or? 08:27:36 <TrueBrain> yes 08:28:28 <nielsm> create your own titlegame, uncompressed 08:28:47 <TrueBrain> nielsm: which is a bit of a chicken/egg issue :D 08:28:53 <TrueBrain> to create a titlegame, I need to be able to start the game ;) 08:30:12 <TrueBrain> but I simply fixed it by installing zlib1g-dev .. 08:30:27 <TrueBrain> was just a bit weird, that it doesn't stop compiling when you don't have it, but absolutely refuses to run in any shape or form without it :D 08:31:19 <nielsm> at least non-dedicated will start even with title game load fails, it just makes an empty 64x64 flat map 08:31:32 <TrueBrain> a dedicated server should do that too! :o 08:31:49 <TrueBrain> it possibly does, and that I fucked up something else btw 08:31:50 <nielsm> I actually thought dedicated always started a new game on startup too 08:31:54 <dP> dedicated shouldn't even try loading titlegame :p 08:31:59 <nielsm> never even attempting to load the title game 08:32:05 <TrueBrain> that I know for sure, it does :) 08:32:38 <TrueBrain> anyway, I have a dedicated server running now that advertises itself to my new masterserver .. I am all happy :) 08:41:46 <andythenorth> \o/ 08:41:50 <andythenorth> emoji 08:41:54 <Wolf01> :D 08:56:17 <TrueBrain> Server 0x5ef85b0bf10b00 with 127.0.0.1:3979 online (0 players) 08:56:17 <TrueBrain> Server 0x5ef85b0bf10b00 with ::1:3979 online (0 players) 08:56:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton opened pull request #8247: Change #8162: Conversion of Town Road, Impr. Error https://git.io/JJvUx 09:10:26 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD-MasterServer/tree/initial_version <- it is getting shape. Three things left: implement updater (to check if servers are still there), implement "get-server-list", and cleanup / document everything 09:14:17 <dP> I almost want to make my own master server 09:16:16 <dP> kind of have all the code for it already anyway, just needs to be put together xD 09:16:48 <TrueBrain> seems you are a bit late to that party ;) 09:17:30 <TrueBrain> I already put all the code together ;) It just needs some logic to work properly now :) 09:17:31 <dP> TrueBrain, does your master server has anti-spam? :p 09:17:33 <TrueBrain> well, it mostly does already ;) 09:17:39 <TrueBrain> does it need anti-spam? :) 09:19:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8247: Change #8162: Conversion of Town Road, Impr. Error https://git.io/JJvTB 09:19:33 <dP> TrueBrain, yes :P https://i.imgur.com/3TfY2Bv.png 09:20:04 <TrueBrain> first I hear about this ... why did nobody tell me? 09:20:19 <LordAro> "GetNameOfOwner" is a poorly named function... 09:20:20 <TrueBrain> who got in a competition there .. 09:20:46 <LordAro> ban the whole lot 09:21:35 <TrueBrain> I was thinking the same; but the elitegameservers.net is annoying, as it is not from a single IP :P 09:22:08 <dP> TrueBrain, just filter by a substring :p 09:22:08 <TrueBrain> I am still surprised how many OpenTTD server there are :P 09:22:38 <TrueBrain> current server is in C++ .. getting that deployed will take more effort I consider worth it ;) 09:22:45 <LordAro> ah, cloudflare IPs 09:22:54 <LordAro> will need domain blocking then, i guess 09:23:55 <TrueBrain> cloudflare? What are you looking up there? 09:24:23 <TrueBrain> ugh, these IPs are from all over the place 09:24:33 <LordAro> dig elitegameservers.net -> 104.26.6.166 -> whois -> cloudflaire 09:24:35 <LordAro> -i 09:24:38 <LordAro> though that could just be the website 09:24:43 <TrueBrain> yeah .... but that is not the IPs I was talking about :) 09:24:49 <TrueBrain> not sure what you wanted to do with that lookup :) 09:24:54 <LordAro> even their website has 3 separate A records 09:25:13 <TrueBrain> they have servers at LeaseWeb, OVH-uk, OVH-de 09:25:29 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 09:25:30 <TrueBrain> ugh, why do people insist in being scum 09:25:43 <TrueBrain> mostly I am annoyed nobody told me about this :P 09:26:28 <TrueBrain> and I am a bit amazed someone took the effort to setup servers (which consumes RAM) to counter this 09:26:48 <dP> well, it was discussed in a chat several times already 09:26:52 <TrueBrain> dP: what were your plans to counter this? 09:27:15 <TrueBrain> dP: I am not that kind of person that reads the backlog :P If I am not highlighted, it could not possibly have been important :D 09:27:59 <dP> TrueBrain, for master server I was more thinking of a way to get all servers it one list so that client doesn't have to query them 09:28:17 <dP> TrueBrain, and for spam I guess adding a flag there won't be a problem 09:28:32 <dP> or even an uint8 category and filter in the client 09:28:44 <dP> with smth like "not spam" as default 09:29:02 <TrueBrain> manually marking things as spam is not really a battle I am willing to fight :P 09:29:08 <dP> like all servers/not spam/big communities 09:29:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvT1 09:29:55 <TrueBrain> is the OpenTTD protocol patch in the game already? That openttd:// allows you to join a game? :D 09:30:04 <nielsm> no 09:30:25 <dP> TrueBrain, idk, manually blacklisting one substring in 15 years doesn't sound that bad :p 09:30:29 <TrueBrain> dP: and you are talking about revamping the master-server protocol, which is a completely different thing ;) 09:30:41 <TrueBrain> dP: people like this will find a way around it in minutes 09:31:11 <dP> TrueBrain, they didn't even bother to update servers to 1.10.2 :p 09:31:54 <dP> TrueBrain, I was thinking of just adding a separate tcp request somewhere instead of tinkering with protocol 09:32:29 <TrueBrain> that is still changing the protocol ;) 09:33:04 <TrueBrain> but yeah, the biggest bottleneck is the UDP part of this protocol 09:33:16 <TrueBrain> huge limitation on what is possible :) 09:33:23 <dP> TrueBrain, depends on what you consider to be a protocol 09:33:35 <TrueBrain> the master-server protocol in general ;) 09:33:38 <TrueBrain> just the bigger picture 09:33:40 <dP> TrueBrain, actually, even httping a file from the website will do the job 09:33:41 <TrueBrain> UDP is just an implementation detail ;) 09:34:44 <dP> TrueBrain, btw, I'm not saying it's a good solution for official master server 09:35:03 <TrueBrain> and I am not saying it is not :P 09:35:18 <dP> xD 09:35:21 <TrueBrain> when OpenTTD was smaller, this was fine 09:35:28 <TrueBrain> but the amount of UDP traffic needed these days, is just a bit insane 09:35:35 <TrueBrain> and you see that it is not always working as it should 09:36:00 <TrueBrain> but, with the content-server too, we already established that switching to HTTPS would be the best approach 09:36:05 <TrueBrain> sadly .... OpenTTD has no S support :( 09:37:00 <TrueBrain> one of my main problems with the current implementation: the idea was to know the server-owner had setup his firewall correctly, that a server advertised could also be joined. but .. it only checks UDP 09:37:05 <LordAro> TrueBrain: the server would have to support it first, i would think? 09:37:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: that silly enough is not the difficult part. Doing HTTPS in a client cross-platform, kinda is 09:37:40 <LordAro> indeed 09:37:43 <nielsm> I still hold we should make a brand new network game protocol 09:38:06 <nielsm> one that can easier nat-punch and can support encryption and authentication 09:38:18 <LordAro> uPnP? 09:38:40 <TrueBrain> nielsm: well, that doesn't really need a new game protocol, but it does need some things around that 09:38:47 <LordAro> i don't feel inventing our own (again) is the solution there :p 09:38:52 <TrueBrain> for example, NAT punching can be done with a simple extension 09:39:12 <TrueBrain> encryption too is a layer on top 09:39:33 <nielsm> TCP NAT punching is difficult and whether it can work at all depends on all the layers of routing between both ends 09:39:33 <TrueBrain> but I might have taken the "network game protocol" too narrow :D 09:39:37 <dP> TrueBrain, master server already queries the server so it's even more redundant for a client 09:39:53 <TrueBrain> dP: sorry? What do you mean? (what is it referring to) 09:40:01 <dP> TrueBrain, but what I was thinking is just to bootstrap the list from website and leave all the udp stuff intact 09:40:22 <dP> TrueBrain, "that a server advertised could also be joined. but .. it only checks UDP" 09:40:24 <TrueBrain> dP: yeah, that is a nice extension that would work fine tbh 09:40:54 <TrueBrain> the client querries the servers not to check if they are online, but because the master-server doesn;t have enough room in UDP packets to tell anything about the server :) 09:41:40 <dP> right xD 09:41:57 <andythenorth> LordAro spnda's roadstops look interesting 09:42:11 <andythenorth> I have not tried them, I got burnt out on newgrf spec stuff 09:42:18 <andythenorth> but could be nice :) 09:43:02 <TrueBrain> nielsm: I guess there are several things to figure out on network level .. how clients talk to a central authority, how clients talk to servers, and how servers talk to a central authority. Making those use the same transport, would be nice :D 09:43:02 <LordAro> andythenorth: i can do code review, but i don't really feel qualified to review the content 09:43:31 <dP> TrueBrain, then I don't see why you say checking server is a problem, you can even join it for real from the master server 09:43:36 <TrueBrain> but it is a huge change :P 09:43:59 <TrueBrain> checking server is a problem? 09:44:05 <TrueBrain> sorry, I am lost in context :D 09:44:20 <dP> TrueBrain, actually another reason I'm thinking of my own master server is to get settings from servers to update this: https://citymania.org/tools/serverstat 09:46:11 <TrueBrain> dP: not sure if this is what you meant, but: currently the MSU (Master Server Updater) only checks if the UDP is working on a server, not the TCP 09:46:24 <TrueBrain> which always annoyed me, as it doesn't really show the firewalls are setup correctly 09:46:32 <TrueBrain> as the game protocol uses TCP, not UDP .. 09:47:01 <dP> TrueBrain, ah, that's what you meant 09:47:08 <TrueBrain> but, in general, people have more issues opening the UDP, so .. if the UDP works, it is very likely the TCP works too :D 09:47:40 <TrueBrain> @ports 09:47:40 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 09:47:44 <TrueBrain> hihi, that still works, funny 09:47:56 <dP> TrueBrain, and if master server was capable of sending server info it wouldn't even need udp :p 09:48:05 <dP> client I mean 09:48:30 <TrueBrain> the reason the MSU is UDP, is because otherwise you can very easily DoS the MSU 09:48:53 <nielsm> and I still think QUIC looks very promising as a protocol basis 09:49:02 <TrueBrain> QUIC is really nice 09:49:07 <TrueBrain> but also complex :D 09:49:12 <nielsm> the main issue last I looked was a lack of libraries that are easy to integrate 09:49:15 <nielsm> and/or mature 09:49:21 <LordAro> deciding factor will be cross platform support, i would think 09:49:33 <TrueBrain> nielsm: it is also really new ;) 09:49:41 <TrueBrain> nginx just came .. last week? with their QUIC implementation 09:50:34 <LordAro> https://github.com/microsoft/msquic ooh 09:51:37 <TrueBrain> and it would be nice if OpenTTD would have a centralized authority, as in: you can register your username somewhere, and on servers that are connected to that network, you always know that name is yours 09:51:51 <LordAro> lots of very significant TODOs remaining there though 09:52:26 <nielsm> yes just a way for a client to prove the player's identity to a server would be massive 09:52:51 <TrueBrain> I once wrote a draft how to do that .. but implementing it in the current codebase is a pita :P 09:53:04 <TrueBrain> regarding QUIC: OpenTTD used to be on the front of new technology 09:53:15 <TrueBrain> in 2007 OpenTTD was fully (and natively) IPv6 09:53:22 <TrueBrain> in 2007 ... let that sink in :P 09:53:33 <TrueBrain> so .. picking up QUIC would do that justice :) 09:53:52 <nielsm> besides using QUIC would only be ottd-ottd and ottd-master server connections 09:53:55 <nielsm> no need to interoperate 09:54:12 <nielsm> if everything uses the same library for it that's not a concern 09:54:25 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i don't think it would be unreasonable to wait until openssl actually supports it properly first 09:54:37 <TrueBrain> LordAro: live some :) 09:55:27 <dP> TrueBrain, dunno about centralized authority but forcing players to set a name would be very nice :p https://i.imgur.com/e1C6VxB.png 09:55:34 <dP> or at least asking more clearly :p 09:55:36 <TrueBrain> https://devs.openttd.org/~truebrain/authentication/ <- 2013, lol 09:57:59 <TrueBrain> nielsm: adding to the list: ottd-content :) 09:58:45 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/OpenTTD-MS2-AS/blob/master/docs/overview.md <- 2018 brain dump .. 09:58:48 <TrueBrain> this is not a new topic :D 09:59:02 <nielsm> true 09:59:52 <TrueBrain> LordAro: in reality, if someone would start with this work now, it will take, what, at least 6 months to get it to a working state? Plenty of time for openssl to catch up ;) 10:00:35 <TrueBrain> dP: btw, the general team in these documents is that I would like to allow custom communities to run this software too, without too much hazzle 10:00:40 <TrueBrain> team? theme 10:00:41 <TrueBrain> dammit 10:02:06 <TrueBrain> but, my first goal remains: migrate everything to AWS :D 10:02:41 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:04:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:07:16 <dP> TrueBrain, nice ideas in that brain dump :) 10:07:56 <dP> TrueBrain, password system has some benefits though, for example Master Hellish did a stream where he put server password in the stream description and chat 10:08:10 <dP> so random strangers can't join but everyone from his stream can easily 10:08:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:09:37 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:09:40 <TrueBrain> dP: it is more about the ingame password; not so much about not supporting such flows 10:10:00 <TrueBrain> I would rather have a share-link thingy for those things 10:10:16 <TrueBrain> which gives you a valid token to join the server 10:10:39 <dP> TrueBrain, yeah, that will work 10:10:52 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:11:00 <nielsm> TrueBrain: have you considered what if we instead moved the content service to be all standard HTTP and just call a "system" HTTP library for it? 10:11:01 <dP> TrueBrain, once link support is added to openttd that is :p 10:11:14 <nielsm> libcurl or WinHTTP or whatever 10:12:00 <TrueBrain> nielsm: what do you mean exactly? 10:12:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:12:50 <TrueBrain> @mute PR 8247 for 1 hour 10:12:53 <TrueBrain> why doesn't this work :( 10:12:54 <nielsm> instead of the slightly hacky HTTP and custom protocol combination used currently 10:13:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:14:10 <TrueBrain> nielsm: going full HTTPS (S being important) for the content-service would be awesome 10:14:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvIO 10:14:21 <TrueBrain> going full HTTP is possible .. slightly less ideal 10:14:27 <TrueBrain> this current implementation is just shit :P 10:14:38 <nielsm> I think that PR is being edited on the github web interface... 10:14:42 <TrueBrain> better even: allow clicking on bananas.openttd.org to install content 10:14:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:15:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:16:01 <TrueBrain> now I come to think of it, not sure if an ingame content service is that good; doing it via a website might be much more userfriendly 10:16:13 <TrueBrain> but either way, yes, doing it over HTTP only would be better 10:16:27 <TrueBrain> from a server-side perspective nothing changes, as we still want to support older clients ;) 10:16:36 <nielsm> the big advantage of in-game is detecting and auto-fetching dependencies for a savegame or server 10:16:44 <TrueBrain> you can still have that 10:16:49 <TrueBrain> nothing has to change there 10:16:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:16:54 <TrueBrain> just .. the UI part ;) 10:17:38 <TrueBrain> anyway, the content-service already has an HTTPS API, which should contain all the needed information to use HTTPS only for the ingame content service 10:17:52 <TrueBrain> so you can pick this up whenever you want :D 10:18:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:18:02 <TrueBrain> https://app.swaggerhub.com/apis/OpenTTD/OpenTTD-content-api/1.0.0 <- this is the API 10:18:17 <nielsm> right now it's two clicks and not leaving the game at all, if you required the player to use a website for it you'd at the very least have the player being shunted out of the game into their browser and then have to figure out how to get back and when it's time to move back 10:19:04 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:19:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:19:48 <TrueBrain> nielsm: you need a link that brings you back to the client, yes, but that is possible these days 10:19:56 <TrueBrain> anyway, one doesn't have to exclude the other .. 10:20:06 <TrueBrain> just having an openttd:// and openttd-content:// support would be nice, I guess :) 10:20:17 <TrueBrain> would solve a few user-experience issues :D 10:20:37 <dP> it's nice to have content downloader for a save/server in the game, but for searching new mods website would be better 10:21:17 <nielsm> well right, a website catalog where the author can also provide pictures could be nice 10:21:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:21:45 <nielsm> one thing even most newgrf threads is missing IMO is just some basic screenshots showing the art 10:22:02 <TrueBrain> and an easy way to download it :D 10:22:12 <andythenorth> nielsm I am +1 to that 10:22:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:22:16 <andythenorth> there are various ideas 10:22:25 <andythenorth> could be manual upload 10:22:25 <TrueBrain> I had to download OpenGFX for my dedicated server ... I will not say how much time it took for me to find the right folder to put it in etc 10:22:30 <andythenorth> or art in action 14 10:22:32 <andythenorth> or in the tar 10:23:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:23:15 <TrueBrain> nielsm: in general, I think there are a lot of ideas around the networking part of OpenTTD .. guess a first step would be to write it down, and make it actionable for people to work on 10:23:28 <TrueBrain> to make clear what the pros and cons are, what the deps are, etc 10:23:35 <TrueBrain> I mean, if CMake can make it into OpenTTD ........ :D 10:23:54 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:23:55 <TrueBrain> poor guy, going off the languages one by one to remove a string ... I feel bad for him .. 10:24:28 <nielsm> maybe also starting out with some perceived problems with the current network implementation 10:24:50 <nielsm> and then address those with various potential solution 10:24:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:25:18 <TrueBrain> https://trello.com/b/6j90aRB1/openttd <- updated my trello on what I am doing 10:25:35 <TrueBrain> the list is not getting smaller, but it is getting more well defined :D 10:25:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:27:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:27:17 <nielsm> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1233659#p1233659 no... that's not wht I was asking 10:27:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:28:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:29:18 * dP just got the craziest idea ever - 3d print an openttd map and put it on a wall xD 10:29:39 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:29:44 <Wolf01> TrueBrain: I set up an analyzer for crash.dmp in php, still not attached to a DB and just reads the uploaded file, developed with my left foot, and maybe it doesn't even do what the real idea is 10:31:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:32:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:32:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:34:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:35:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> is hw committing every keypress or something? :p 10:36:46 <nielsm> using github's web editor editing one language file at a time 10:37:06 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:37:42 <nielsm> I kind of want to force him to learn how to clone the repo locally and squash all those cleanup commits 10:38:02 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:38:16 <Wolf01> dP: I'm still trying to set up the new entry level 3D printer, but I had that idea too 10:39:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 10:39:25 <dP> Wolf01, I got mine yesterday, already printing some upgrades for it xD 10:40:48 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvLy 10:41:02 <nielsm> gah stuck with an old problem again: I want to move part of commit B's changed over to commit A instead 10:41:50 <nielsm> unless I should just squash all of the tree toolbar changes into one 10:43:00 <dP> though now that I think of it, how do you even 3d print a 2d game? xD 10:43:46 <Wolf01> dP: I tried to print a calibration thing but it came out a shit, the base is good, the circles are not perfect, the walls are just a bunch of wires which disintegrate when touched instead of a solid, also the top horizontal surfaces are a lattice... maybe is the model, maybe the settings I used 10:47:17 <Wolf01> dP: which slicer are you using? I need to use Cura because the one they provided doesn't even load the blueprints from thingiverse 10:48:07 <dP> Wolf01, I'm using cura as well 10:48:26 <dP> Wolf01, I'm a complete newbie in 3d printing though, just happy mine worked out of the box 10:49:43 <Wolf01> Ahah, me too, I purchased a labists x1 because it was discounted and suggested for entry level 10:54:05 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvtm 10:54:19 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: using the web interface to delete a line from every language file 10:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> don't we have a script for that? 10:55:35 <LordAro> not in the repo 10:55:46 <LordAro> and not something you can use if you're only using the web interface :p 10:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean as in: tell him to not touch the langfiles (except english) 11:00:02 <LordAro> maybe eints would remove it? 11:00:05 <LordAro> i'm not sure 11:00:09 <LordAro> regardless, too late now 11:01:39 <Wolf01> "Non-manifold edges are the edges of models that can only exist in the 3D space and not the physical world." Lol 11:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know if eints does that, but it probably should 11:04:08 <LordAro> i know it "invalidates" other languages strings if the english changes 11:04:14 <LordAro> i don't know about removing entirely 11:04:24 <LordAro> would mean compile warnings though 11:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> iirc webtranslator didn't do it 11:16:02 <Cursarion> how profoundly is the date of the world part of how the game works? I was looking at how it takes about two real time seconds for game world day to change and then wondering how large the scale on the map must be if you look at the vehicle speeds from that point of view. A train going 300 kph will go 7200 km in a day, but that train also moves only a few tiles in that time, so each tile must ... 11:16:08 <Cursarion> ... be hundreds of kilometers long, if not tens of hundreds. :P 11:16:33 <LordAro> Cursarion: try not to think about scale in OTTD too closely 11:16:40 *** m811 has quit IRC 11:18:07 <LordAro> all 4 transport types work at completely different scales 11:18:16 <Cursarion> then I started to wonder if it'd be possible to play the game in normal speed but just the world clock going slower? Would it break everything, or is the date just an arbitrary thing? 11:18:33 <LordAro> oh you have no idea how big that question is 11:18:40 <LordAro> you can search for "daylength" 11:20:05 <Cursarion> aren't there some sort of ticks internally? 11:20:31 <Wolf01> The only way to have an accurate simulation is to have a real time and real distances based one, and then fast forward it at a point you can't even see the vehicles 11:21:36 <LordAro> Cursarion: sure 11:21:40 <LordAro> 74 ticks a day 11:21:50 <LordAro> which as you found out, is approximately 2s 11:22:00 <b_jonas> and like five different cycles for different mechanics 11:22:43 <Cursarion> looks like someone's made a patch for that 11:22:52 <LordAro> there have been many 11:23:17 <LordAro> they're all flawed in one way or another 11:26:18 <nielsm> TTD DOS: https://0x0.st/iJ28.png // OTTD 1.10.1: https://0x0.st/iJ2K.png // my tree tools patch: https://0x0.st/iJ2P.png 11:26:25 <nielsm> see the issue with OTTD compared to TTD DOS? 11:26:34 <nielsm> (using the same baseset GRF file for all three) 11:28:29 <Wolf01> Shouldn't the position be randomized? 11:29:18 <nielsm> maybe also that 11:29:21 <Cursarion> LordAro: are the flaws severe? or just something that can be scaled with relatively simple maths? 11:29:27 <nielsm> but the second tree type in the UI is using the wrong sprite 11:30:47 <Wolf01> I know there are unused trees, I found it while I was playing with my tree placement patch 11:31:15 <Wolf01> Maybe OTTD select the available trees differently 11:31:28 <nielsm> nah the sprite used there is the first withering sprite for eighth type 11:31:45 <Wolf01> But it seem only for the UI 11:31:49 <nielsm> yeah 11:31:54 <Wolf01> The placed ones are fine 11:32:18 <Wolf01> Ha! It's the roadside tree 11:32:33 <andythenorth> Cursarion every daylength patch thread starts approximately "it can't be that hard" 11:32:43 <andythenorth> followed by "see I've got nearly all of it working" 11:32:52 <andythenorth> followed by "...[crickets]..." 11:33:34 <andythenorth> nielsm OTTD trees are weird :) 11:33:37 <andythenorth> I always turn them off :) 11:33:42 <andythenorth> they don't look right 11:33:47 <andythenorth> and they all disappear during the game 11:34:06 <nielsm> andythenorth: try opening the scenario editor with a flat blank map and just fast forward 11:34:11 <nielsm> it will get filled with trees 11:34:36 <andythenorth> so why does SE plant more, but actual game doesn't replace dead ones? 11:34:59 <andythenorth> is dying trees disabled in SE? 11:35:02 <Wolf01> It seem that pollution generated while playing withers them out... oh wait, that's Factorio 11:37:02 <Wolf01> I would like permanent trees and exact trees position in tiles, but still trees so you can build over them etc instead of using newobjects 11:37:44 <Wolf01> Was this a goal of NotTrees? 11:43:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8234: Trees GUI improvements https://git.io/JfxU1 11:53:17 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8240: Fix #8221: Subtitle - No Bridge Type Given Size https://git.io/JJvqH 11:53:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8240: Fix #8221: Subtitle - No Bridge Type Given Size https://git.io/JJeso 11:53:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8221: No error message subtitle for if no bridge types available for target length < max bridge length https://git.io/JfQrI 12:10:28 <Cursarion> andythenorth: well, is it hard per se, or just lots of work? 12:11:36 <Cursarion> I can believe it's the latter, but dunno about the former, if it's something that makes sense 12:11:43 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: not sure about PHP these days :P But mainly what I would like that we have a GitHub Actions that if a user posts a crash.dmp, it replies with the content therein, instead of waiting for our human bot to come along :P Windows has tools for this etc, it just needs to be wrapped in a GitHub Actions in my opinion :) 12:15:02 <LordAro> TrueBrain: can you have a github action that runs on a new comment? 12:15:07 <TrueBrain> yes 12:15:11 <LordAro> neat 12:16:05 <TrueBrain> why you ask? 12:16:21 <LordAro> i wasn't expecting it 12:16:38 <TrueBrain> it is used to give bots actions, like /build or /deploy you see a lot 12:16:51 <TrueBrain> or /merge even happens a lot 12:16:57 <TrueBrain> also /backport 12:17:00 <TrueBrain> lot of cool things you can do with it 12:17:06 <LordAro> i didn't realise they used the same actions system 12:17:12 <TrueBrain> yup 12:17:17 <TrueBrain> it doesn't have to 12:17:20 <TrueBrain> GitHub Apps can do it too 12:17:21 <andythenorth> Cursarion all I'm reporting is how this usually goes :) 12:17:51 <andythenorth> Cursarion also you can just try it in JGR Patch Pack 12:18:04 <Wolf01> TrueBrain: yeah, I made it like 4 years ago :P 12:18:24 <TrueBrain> LordAro: https://help.github.com/en/actions/reference/events-that-trigger-workflows full list, if you are interested :) 12:18:36 <TrueBrain> "Runs your workflow anytime when someone forks a repository, which triggers the fork event" 12:20:57 <Cursarion> andythenorth: ya, I'll prolly do that to see how it works 12:25:09 <milek7> apart from technical reasons, there's no consensus on how should daylength work 12:28:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8192: Change: Always generate API files at build time https://git.io/JJvmQ 12:29:12 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8196: Fix: Adjust .gitignore to CMake build system. https://git.io/JJvmF 12:30:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8188: CMake mac tweaks https://git.io/JJvmN 12:31:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro requested changes for pull request #8207: Add: Cheat menu under land information menu and 'cheat' console command https://git.io/JJvmp 12:34:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJvYJ 12:35:11 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: well, codewise it is pretty easy, just use cdb and you are done. The tricky part in automating it, is knowing which symbol files to use. Which is fine if the crash.log is uploaded too. Otherwise it requires a bit more .. fiddling :D 12:38:25 <Wolf01> Yeah, I took the latter solution and got stuck :P 12:41:33 <TrueBrain> wow, my WSL2 consumes 12GB of RAM .. that is .. unneeded 12:42:18 <LordAro> #justwindowsthings 12:43:41 *** crem has quit IRC 12:47:32 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJvY0 12:47:41 <TrueBrain> turns out to be Linux Page Cache :D Fun :) 12:53:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8149: Fix #8131: small bridges also have pillars drawn https://git.io/JJvYa 12:54:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro merged pull request #8149: Fix #8131: small bridges also have pillars drawn https://git.io/JfRkQ 12:54:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8131: Missing bounding boxes for bridge pillars of height 1 cause graphical glitches https://git.io/JfWqh 13:13:06 *** crem has joined #openttd 13:14:38 <FLHerne> Cursarion: The root problem is that there are various contradictions that are very hard to reconcile 13:15:26 <FLHerne> e.g. if you just make every day 5x longer, the industry monthly production occurs 5x less frequently, which unbalances the game 13:16:35 <FLHerne> But if you lie to industry newgrfs abot the date to maintain the same production, their info text (e.g. FIRS' "deliver <n units of x> per month") becomes incorrect 13:16:50 <nielsm> that's wrong, industry production happens on 256 ticks, not based on calendar 13:17:31 <FLHerne> nielsm: Well, it's definitely the effect of the current patch... 13:17:34 <nielsm> however yes the industry monthly production change check would have more ticks between, and the displayed "monthly production" would appear to be higher 13:18:12 <nielsm> if you just changed DAY_TICKS (or however it's called) to be 5x larger then you just get 5x as many ticks per month and per year 13:18:26 <nielsm> meaning things happen 5x more frequently in the same span of calendar time 13:18:28 <FLHerne> My explanation for *why* that happens is probably wrong 13:19:01 <Wolf01> The problem of all the approaches were that they want to change all the game paces, not only the real proble which is "I want to play with the current generation of vehicles for a longer time" 13:19:35 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8079: Add: [NewGRF] Industry behaviour flag to override second cargo produc… https://git.io/JJvOY 13:19:40 <LordAro> maybe someone should write this down 13:20:36 <Wolf01> For example I usually play with fast forward and zoomed out and slow down only for building 13:20:42 <nielsm> the game is balanced (no stop talking about "the game is not balanced because it's too easy/too hard") around various things happening at various frequencies measured in ticks, if you change those frequencies then the entire game balance changes 13:20:44 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8157: Fix: Incorrect save/load array size of Town::cargo_accepted https://git.io/JJvO3 13:23:22 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 13:32:56 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8157: Fix: Incorrect save/load array size of Town::cargo_accepted https://git.io/JfEmO 13:33:40 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8079: Add: [NewGRF] Industry behaviour flag to override second cargo produc… https://git.io/JvhMQ 13:33:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrevorShelton updated pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJvUx 13:36:33 <nielsm> 999 closed pull requests! 13:36:39 <LordAro> \o/ 13:36:56 *** arikover has joined #openttd 13:37:20 <nielsm> anyone got the cake and champagne ready? 13:38:10 <LordAro> i've got beer in the fridge and some biscuits... 13:39:34 <nielsm> hm I should update https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/7353 13:39:43 <nielsm> and then we should figure out do we really want it :) 13:40:58 <LordAro> what's our oldest open PR? 13:41:02 <LordAro> and should we close it? 13:41:54 <nielsm> 3 oldest are marked stale 13:42:28 <LordAro> by me, it would seem 13:51:44 <supermop_Home> i think my problem here is that i have so much water, many train routes could easily be a ship just running along the coast 13:52:14 <supermop_Home> which is less fun, but hard to commit to building a rail line 13:56:14 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4 14:02:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7353: Feature: Measure vehicle capacity utilisation efficiency https://git.io/fhho4 14:08:13 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7912: Feature: Disallow industry production changes from GS https://git.io/Jej1Z 14:12:10 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JvfWw 14:13:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #7924: Feature: Water tiles have a depth https://git.io/JJv3S 14:38:33 * andythenorth dreams of sandbox mode 14:57:35 <FLHerne> Money cheat + magic bulldozer + vehicles-never-expire? 14:58:13 <FLHerne> michi_cc: Does #8079 want a corresponding flag in NML? 15:02:16 <michi_cc> Probably 15:02:43 <dP> nielsm, what's the plan for town cargo desync in 1.10 then? 15:03:46 <dP> wait 8 months? xD 15:05:47 <LordAro> dP: does it happen often? 15:05:57 <dP> LordAro, who knows 15:06:13 <LordAro> if it's rare enough, i'm not personally worried too much 15:06:25 <FLHerne> michi_cc: What does it actually do? I can't find any docs that mention such clamping 15:06:30 <dP> LordAro, there are some desyncs happening that I can't debug 15:06:52 <FLHerne> (also, the flag itself needs documenting in the specs) 15:07:13 <dP> LordAro, also I'm more worried that #8159 is voided now 15:10:05 <michi_cc> FLHerne: I don't know if there's any docs besides the game code for that behaviour. There's special code for the water industries (by default only the oil rig) that limits the amount of pax (second cargo) generation. 15:10:33 <LordAro> dP: i don't think so 15:11:15 <LordAro> dP: that said, if you rebase it quick enough to replace what we just merged, i'd be happy to merge it 15:11:25 <LordAro> (just "reuse" the save version) 15:11:52 <dP> LordAro, 8159 is backportable fix with the whole purpose of avoiding version bump 15:12:42 <LordAro> ah yes, i remember 15:12:58 <LordAro> the whole "change existing subsidy generation" thing scares me 15:13:29 <LordAro> can you explain how the subsidy generation is changed, and why that's necessary? (in the PR) 15:13:49 <michi_cc> FLHerne: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Special_industry_flags_to_define_special_behavior_.281A.29 15:14:59 <dP> LordAro, didn't I already? 15:15:43 <FLHerne> michi_cc: Thanks, but clamped to what? 15:16:16 <FLHerne> The first cargo production? 15:16:17 <michi_cc> 16 instead of 255 (whatever that amounts to) 15:16:23 <FLHerne> Some arbitrary value? 15:16:33 <LordAro> dP: not that i can see 15:19:14 <dP> LordAro, well, I guess I can add a bit of "how" but "why" there are plenty 15:19:30 <dP> LordAro, it's more effecient to do a map scan in subsidy than maintain those caches 15:23:57 <LordAro> dP: i get why the change has been made 15:24:08 <LordAro> i don't get why that results in different subsidies being generated 15:24:30 <LordAro> "Break/alter subsidies a bit by reducing the probability of generating certain subsidy types" 15:27:06 <dP> LordAro, because it now checks only acceptance of 13x13 area around town center instead of doing weird thing that was probably supposed to check everywhere but doesn't 15:28:14 <LordAro> i see 15:28:25 <dP> LordAro, well, it does check everywhere but what it actually checks is beyond description xD 15:28:40 <LordAro> without really thinking about it, i can't see how that would result in different subsidy generation? 15:30:08 <dP> LordAro, if you have special house accepting some unique cargo somewhere on the outskirts of the town it won't generate subsidy for it 15:30:35 <LordAro> if it's as edgecasey as that, i'm not bothered at all 15:30:48 <LordAro> you can add a Revert commit to the beginning of your PR :) 15:32:35 <LordAro> dP: although, towns already have an authority area cache, would it be terrible to use that instead? 15:32:59 <dP> LordAro, how would revert work for a backport? 15:33:20 <LordAro> dP: the original would just never get backported 15:33:30 <LordAro> but that's my problem, not yours :) 15:33:52 <dP> LordAro, authority area cache? what's that? 15:34:10 <LordAro> the one that's used to display the town's authority area 15:34:20 <dP> LordAro, kdtree you mean? 15:34:21 <LordAro> it was the original reason all the kdtree stuff was added, iirc 15:35:25 <LordAro> dP: as long as a nightly is never generated with this new savegame version, i'm happy to revert it 15:35:27 <dP> LordAro, it can probably be used to catch those edge cases but are you sure it's synced well? ;) 15:35:28 <LordAro> so you've got 2 hours :) 15:35:34 <LordAro> dP: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 15:35:51 <LordAro> innocent until proven guilty 15:36:36 <LordAro> regardless, we can't easily remove that one :p 15:36:43 <dP> anyway, subsidies can be improved later if anyone cares about that :p 15:36:50 <LordAro> that too 15:37:40 <dP> if they aren't removed completely before that xD 15:37:53 <LordAro> seems unlikely 15:38:06 <LordAro> given they were the only way to get the necessary performance 15:38:32 <LordAro> and unless there are fundamental sync issues with them, i can't see them going anywhere 15:39:20 <dP> LordAro, get what? performance rating doesn't require subsidies 15:39:44 <dP> LordAro, I don't really care as long as there is a way to disable them completely 15:40:01 <LordAro> i'm talking about runtime performance of OTTD itself 15:41:30 <dP> LordAro, well, then I don't understand you at all, subsidies aren't helping game performance at all, quite the opposite in fact 15:42:42 <LordAro> i'm talking about kdtrees as a whole 15:42:56 <LordAro> it's of no consequence, so don't worry 15:43:30 <dP> LordAro, oh, that, kdtrees aren't related to subsidies at all 15:44:15 <dP> LordAro, I meant removing subsidies, not trees xD 15:47:13 <LordAro> dP: aha, everything makes more sense again 15:47:17 <LordAro> regardless 15:47:34 <LordAro> PR with rebase & revert in the next couple of hours, i'll have no issues merging 15:48:00 <LordAro> nielsm: i presume you are the same? 15:53:39 <nielsm> let me just read backlog 15:57:19 <nielsm> merging 8159 in a backportable form? yes I'd be for that 15:57:51 <LordAro> nielsm: the controversial bit is reverting the savegame bump 15:58:47 <nielsm> there was never a savegame bump in the changesets I remember seeing 15:58:59 <nielsm> a change in SL code yes but not a version bump 15:59:09 <LordAro> #8157 15:59:31 <nielsm> oh that... 16:00:40 <dP> nielsm, 8157 blocks backportable 8159 and 8159 in any form makes 8157 pointless 16:01:11 <nielsm> ah right I missed that part 16:01:31 <dP> and now I'm trying to learn git before nightly comes out xD 16:02:31 <nielsm> start from master, make a new branch, revert 8157 commit, change to 8159 branch, rebase 8159 onto that temporary branch 16:02:32 <nielsm> maybe 16:04:27 <LordAro> as long as the resulting (remote) branch has the same name as the GH PR, everything should be fine 16:06:49 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JfE5M 16:07:43 <dP> nielsm, surprisingly I figured that out myself 16:08:17 <LordAro> dP: I'd probably go with "Revert #8157: Redundant change" or similar 16:08:22 <dP> except I screwed up first commit message xD 16:08:45 <LordAro> the PR shouldn't be "relying" on it backported 16:08:58 <LordAro> as far as the PR is concerned, it's just a standard change 16:09:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JfE5M 16:10:58 <dP> surprisingly it all seemed to work... 16:11:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JJvnf 16:11:48 <LordAro> nielsm: ^ if you could give that a once over as well... 16:12:33 <dP> it even compiles xD 16:15:24 <nielsm> looks right yes 16:15:42 <nielsm> just waiting for CI now 16:15:51 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JJvnn 16:16:02 <nielsm> the windows builds have become horribly slow with cmake, it looks like it might be running them single threaded 16:16:20 <nielsm> (and it uses cmake -> vcbuild instead of ninja) 16:19:10 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:24:03 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8159: Make subsidies scan for town cargo instead of wasting resources and risking desyncs by maintaining cargo caches https://git.io/JfE5M 16:24:12 <LordAro> :) 16:24:17 <nielsm> boom 16:44:25 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:59:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:15:01 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJv87 18:17:33 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJv8F 18:59:24 *** moll has joined #openttd 19:02:28 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJvB0 19:12:55 *** glx has joined #openttd 19:12:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:33:22 <TrueBrain> gratz nielsm ; now you have to buy the cake :P 19:34:05 <andythenorth> nearby station name for Fish Farm? 19:34:15 <andythenorth> Fishing Grounds has '...Shoals' 19:35:40 <nielsm> is that a land based industry? 19:36:36 <nielsm> maybe "Lakes"? 19:36:46 <nielsm> artificial lakes perhaps but still lakes, sort of 19:36:57 <andythenorth> https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/norwegian-fish-farm-norwegian-fish-farm-salmon-growing-natural-environment-sea-fjord-western-norway-122898122.jpg 19:38:14 <nielsm> but is it an industry neutral station or a player built station? 19:38:31 <nielsm> "seaside" if there are no industry stations for it 19:38:55 <andythenorth> player built 19:46:46 <supermop_Home> andy add Vietnamese floating village from lan ha bay 19:47:20 <supermop_Home> accepts polystyrene, produces cuttlefish and mantis shrimp 19:48:08 <nielsm> what, the more polystyrene you deliver the production declines? 19:48:28 <andythenorth> I have been considering net externalities for the chemicals economy 19:48:39 <supermop_Home> the village floats on polystyrene block 19:48:40 <supermop_Home> s 19:48:44 <andythenorth> I got a little bit simcity in my thinking 19:49:00 <supermop_Home> so you need more to build more fish pens and houses 19:49:17 <andythenorth> I invented some kind of polluted dissatisfied towns 19:49:30 <andythenorth> we need some kind of scripting API :P 19:49:45 <andythenorth> Truebrain is probably working on it ^ :P 19:50:00 <TrueBrain> I called it NoAI 19:50:02 <TrueBrain> it is in the game 19:50:03 <TrueBrain> :P 19:50:08 <supermop_Home> though the government there is trying to get them to transition to some kind of durable plastic pontoons as the polystyrene crumbles and gets all over the bay 19:50:09 <andythenorth> NoGO 19:55:01 <TrueBrain> hmm, annoying, I really did finish Netflix .. 19:56:29 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 20:06:03 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:07:03 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:15:24 <supermop_Home> implement recommendation algo in bananas? 20:19:27 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 20:26:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:29:38 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 20:37:12 <b_jonas> I'm trying conditional orders now. I don't know if it will work. 20:43:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 20:53:18 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:59:30 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 21:10:02 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 21:14:18 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:33:33 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:33:52 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:47:54 *** arikover has quit IRC 21:58:54 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:07:50 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:08:58 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:11:33 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:22:06 <b_jonas> it's time to build up my transcontinental oil empire 22:22:46 <b_jonas> there are more than enough oil rigs for it now 22:31:05 <b_jonas> I know it's not a very good strategy to earn money yet, because I don't have fast trains, but eventually I will have fast trains and the tracks will be layed by then