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Log for #openttd on 2nd July 2020:
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00:20:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUnd
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00:45:56  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUcF
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01:43:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened issue #8252: Possible duplication of functionality in `screenshot.cpp` https://git.io/JJUWw
01:51:03  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 opened issue #8253: Very large company values are not graphed correctly https://git.io/JJUWy
01:52:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
01:53:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUW7
02:07:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUlJ
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04:06:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUBh
04:26:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUBh
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04:57:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUBh
05:06:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUBh
05:08:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUBh
05:19:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUBh
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05:35:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
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06:18:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8251: Fix: 8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/… https://git.io/JJUuK
06:19:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8247: Fix #8162: Improve Error Message When Converting Town Owned Road https://git.io/JJUu6
06:21:21  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUu1
06:21:40  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8236: Fix #7772: Show destination on mouseover when vehicle stopped (and not in depot) https://git.io/JJUuM
06:23:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8227: Fix: Thread unsafe use of SendPacket for PACKET_SERVER_MAP_SIZE https://git.io/JJUu5
06:23:47  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JJUud
06:39:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8254: Add: Extend DECLARE_ENUM_AS_BIT_SET with extra operations https://git.io/JJUzZ
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08:37:16  <andythenorth> hmm
08:37:19  * andythenorth lost in AWS
08:37:26  <andythenorth> 'we can rebuild him!'
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10:35:31  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8251: Fix: 8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/… https://git.io/JJJq2
10:35:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh closed issue #8250: NRT: Company infrastructure window always omits last road/tramtype https://git.io/JJfRr
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10:48:55  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] JGRennison commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUDe
10:51:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/Jf9yI
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10:57:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUDr
10:59:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJUDi
11:03:57  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8256: Refactor GUI rendering (based on JGRPP) https://git.io/JJUDh
11:06:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8257: Refactor GUI rendering: Add documentation and name `Viewport` consistently https://git.io/JJUyq
11:09:13  <LordAro> oh heavens.
11:09:19  <LordAro> that's not what i wanted at all
11:14:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJUyr
11:16:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUyP
11:16:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8219: Inexplicably low redraw rate on multiplayer server https://git.io/JfHiF
11:17:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJUyX
11:18:34  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUyH
11:20:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8217: Port GUI rendering improvements from JGRPP https://git.io/JJUy5
11:21:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8257: Refactor GUI rendering: Add documentation and name `Viewport` consistently https://git.io/JJUyA
11:55:19  <dP> Is there any reason it checks savegame version while saving or it's just a bug and should be removed? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/saveload/town_sl.cpp#L256
11:59:58  <nielsm> that seems weird yes
12:00:30  <nielsm> the savegame version should be the current after loading has finished
12:00:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that was a hack so it could be backported to release branch
12:00:54  <LordAro> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/59d8b0204fbb6c54da18e49a72ced5d83b0141dc
12:02:58  <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: can't see it in the 1.1 branch
12:05:30  <dP> anyway, it's seemingly safe to remove now
12:06:09  <andythenorth_> hmm
12:06:21  <andythenorth_> seems the AWS options are mutually exclusive
12:06:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i wouldn't make any assumptions about "safeness" before we cleared up what the intention was
12:06:25  <dP> also there is some reserved space in the save, I assume it's no longer needed as well? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/blob/master/src/saveload/town_sl.cpp#L199
12:06:55  <andythenorth_> either (a) setup for http straight to S3 XOR (b) use a cloudfront distribution to get https
12:07:07  <andythenorth_> I did (a), now I need to reverse the instructions and start again
12:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we clean up a lot of these CONDNULLs a while ago?
12:08:05  <dP> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, I've seen them removed in some places but this one is still there
12:08:14  <dP> can remove it as well while I'm at it
12:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause> where in this damn github interface can i see a list of commits to a branch?
12:10:53  <andythenorth_> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/tree/release/1.10
12:10:57  <andythenorth_> it's fiddly to find
12:11:13  <andythenorth_> '24, 174 commits'
12:11:19  <andythenorth_> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commits/release/1.10
12:11:27  <andythenorth_> [replace branch as needed]
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12:30:33  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl opened pull request #8258: Codechange #8258: Remove unused town cargo caches from the savegame https://git.io/JJUHp
12:32:51  <dP> also #backport_requested for #8159 ;)
12:33:00  <dP> for 2 out of 3 commits xD
12:41:20  <LordAro> nothing is backport requested at present
12:41:38  <LordAro> if we decide to do a 1.10.3, then we'll go through all PRs
12:43:08  <dP> I though the whole point of that label was to mark prs so they don't get forgotten accidentally
12:43:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro approved pull request #8258: Codechange #8258: Remove unused town cargo caches from the savegame https://git.io/JJUQX
12:43:32  <LordAro> dP: yeah, but that's only when they're scattered in amongst PRs that are marked as such
12:43:37  <LordAro> here, none of them are marked
12:45:15  <dP> it kind of already happened with that #8159 and 1.10.2 :p
12:45:25  <LordAro> i probably shouldn't have approved that PR, given it fails the CI :p
12:47:37  <dP> that CI doesn't seem to be feeling well :p
12:48:07  <LordAro> it seems to have broken loading one of the regression test saves
12:52:31  <dP> hm, its output looks jibberish to me but I did find one bug...
12:55:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl dismissed a review for pull request #8258: Codechange #8258: Remove unused town cargo caches from the savegame https://git.io/JJUQX
12:55:09  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl updated pull request #8258: Codechange #8258: Remove unused town cargo caches from the savegame https://git.io/JJUHp
12:55:45  <LordAro> dP: azure's output isn't very clear, you need to click a lot to get the actual output
12:56:35  <dP> LordAro, what actual output do you mean? I clicked a lot but still only got some nonsense
12:56:42  <dP> while there was indeed a regression
13:01:13  <dP> oh, found it, just didn't expect the actual error be in grey when there is a huge block of red "errors" nearby.
13:23:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hello, asking before i start work on this feature
13:24:03  <CornsMcGowan[m]> would something like the Factorio railplanner be accepted into trunk?
13:25:01  <CornsMcGowan[m]> a build tool more powerful than polyline where you can set a start/end point and uses path search algorithms to find the best solution
13:25:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i've made WIP feature branches before but never got around to finishing, below are implementations for canals and rails respectively
13:25:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> https://gfycat.com/soupymisguidedelver
13:25:47  <CornsMcGowan[m]> https://gfycat.com/rectangularrichairedaleterrier
13:26:40  <nielsm> personally I'd say it's against the spirit of the game
13:26:51  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i'd intend to include bridges/tunnels as well
13:27:33  <CornsMcGowan[m]> and also implement a new DoCommand for building non-straight rails (so I don't have to chain DoCommand together)
13:27:59  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i think it would be beneficial to a lot of players, especially on mobile devices where building is often tedious
13:39:25  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i just remembered i've asked the same question before
13:50:37  <CornsMcGowan[m]> from last year: LordAro says "i'm not going to complain if someone else decides it is desirable"
13:50:37  <CornsMcGowan[m]> FLHerne says "I don't think I'd /use/ it, but I have no objection to it existing"
13:51:44  <andythenorth_> I really didn't get on with polyline
13:52:04  <andythenorth_> but Railroad Tycoon 2 / 3 had auto-route between start and end point
13:55:57  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh i didn't know that :0
13:56:09  <CornsMcGowan[m]> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1222286#p1222286 old forums post where I asked about implementing as well
14:02:39  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh man the RRT2 interface is quite something
14:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i see a handful of issues with a feature like this: a) tweaking it to make "sane" routes", b) live-switching between preferring tunnels, bridges or cuttings, c) setting minimum curve radius and slope distances, d) adding a second track to an existing rail, etc.
14:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause> if i were using a feature like this, i'll see myself constantly fighting against it because it doesn't build the exact route i have in mind
14:11:12  <Eddi|zuHause> what is an "optimal" route varies widely during gameplay, depending on what engines you have available, or how much money you have
14:11:30  <CornsMcGowan[m]> thats true indeed (re the optimal route)
14:12:17  <CornsMcGowan[m]> we could make the weighting of slopes adjustable with an interface similar to the signal auto spacing GUI
14:26:27  <CornsMcGowan[m]> Eddi|zuHause: can you elaborate on those points?
14:26:48  <Eddi|zuHause> in what sense?
14:26:55  <CornsMcGowan[m]> like, what would need to change in order for you be less opposed to using the feature
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14:32:32  <FLHerne> CornsMcGowan[m]: I'm not sure I agree with myself :p
14:32:51  <FLHerne> I still wouldn't use it
14:33:44  <FLHerne> Players who care at all about aesthetics won't use it, because no-one's figured out an algorithm to build nice-looking routes
14:35:37  <FLHerne> But for the efficiency-uber-alles people it still won't beat "perfectly straight line over every mountain, and buy all the locos"
14:36:19  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i understand re: aesthetics
14:37:01  <CornsMcGowan[m]> but for efficiency wouldn't it be well suited? given we can indeed tweak it to produce the fastest route between points
14:37:28  <CornsMcGowan[m]> also i imagine mobile users would enjoy the feature since it relives the tedium of building rails, roads and canals
14:37:58  <FLHerne> Well, as you can see on some competitive servers, the optimal route is normally a perfectly straight line disregarding terrain :p
14:38:40  <CornsMcGowan[m]> lmao thats true, and its possible to give slopes the same weight as flat tracks so it would construct such a path
14:38:48  <CornsMcGowan[m]> unless you mean terraforming as well
14:39:03  <FLHerne> Locos to go up continous slopes at full speed are cheaper than the lost income from a longer route, which is silly, but eh
14:39:29  <FLHerne> Sure, but we have a tool to build straight lines already ;-)
14:39:29  <CornsMcGowan[m]> yeah its not the nicest look
14:39:47  <FLHerne> I can see the appeal for mobile
14:40:07  <FLHerne> Well, I can't, because I can't see how anyone plays on mobile at all, but...
14:40:12  <CornsMcGowan[m]> HAHA
14:40:30  <CornsMcGowan[m]> well i think the addition of this feature makes it slightly more palatable for them
14:40:45  <FLHerne> My phone is fairly large-screened, and I still found it incredibly frustrating
14:41:03  <CornsMcGowan[m]> FLHerne: is there anything you would change about the railplanner to make it more appealing to you?
14:41:14  <FLHerne> Not really?
14:41:20  <FLHerne> I guess I don't see the point
14:41:36  <FLHerne> The economic model of OTTD is ridiculous and uninteresting
14:42:12  <FLHerne> Timetabling is awkward and un-fun except for the results you can produce
14:42:38  <FLHerne> So...the part I find fun is designing and building routes
14:42:48  <FLHerne> If you automate that, why are you playing?
14:43:12  <Eddi|zuHause>  <CornsMcGowan[m]> like, what would need to change in order for you be less opposed to using the feature <-- i don't think the feature is in a state where i could make a useful contribution
14:43:15  <FLHerne> Oh, and playing model-railway with scenery and objects
14:43:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, i could make a dozen suggestions that will be unimplementable
14:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause> but nobody would be helped by that
14:43:48  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i want to hear them :p
14:43:52  <FLHerne> Which is also defeated by automation unless you achieve the Holy Grail of a track-planner that builds non-hideous double-track railways
14:44:20  <nielsm> at the absolute minimum I think there needs to be an enforced construction delay, and it must construct in segments, rather than giving players a way to build 1000 tiles of complex-routed rail in a single tick
14:44:50  <CornsMcGowan[m]> a suggestion Alberth made in the TT-forums amounted to: limit the amount of track that could be built at once
14:46:17  <CornsMcGowan[m]> e.g. some arbitrary limit like 100 tiles can be built with each click
14:47:01  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nielsm: "there needs to be an enforced construction delay, and it must construct in segments" can't that be implemented via the current burst/time period construction limits?
14:47:15  <Eddi|zuHause> for a useful track planner i need: a) a preview that lets me tweak it before doing any actual construction, b) tweakable settings (curve radius, slope steepness, tunnel/bridge percentage, ...), c) movable intermediate nodes
14:47:26  <Eddi|zuHause> that should keep you busy for a while
14:47:54  <CornsMcGowan[m]> a) is already done, b) amounts to implementing a gui similar to the signal spacing adjustments
14:48:09  <CornsMcGowan[m]> c) can be acheived by: building shorter sections at a time i guess
14:48:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no, c) is the opposite of that
14:48:40  <Eddi|zuHause> top-down vs. bottom-up
14:48:56  <CornsMcGowan[m]> Eddi|zuHause: re: point a), do you consider the current ghost preview (i.e. the same style as current track construction) sufficient?
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14:49:22  <nielsm> yes extending the current landscaping limits system to also apply to track building, and then have track construction somehow queue up segments, would be okay
14:49:44  <nielsm> the main thing being that players who prefer to build manually aren't disadvantaged
14:49:51  <CornsMcGowan[m]> FLHerne: i also enjoy track building, but i find building longer stretches tedious - my main entertainment comes from building junctions and stations
14:50:30  <Eddi|zuHause> CornsMcGowan[m]: the graphical representation is not the point. the point is that you set the nodes down, and can move them, and only when everything is right, you press the "now do the construction" button
14:50:57  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i see, so a Confirm/Cancel window like what the mobile app does
14:51:04  <CornsMcGowan[m]> and yeah the node placement stuff
14:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause> CornsMcGowan[m]: think like the google maps route planner where you can drag the suggested route around
14:52:42  <CornsMcGowan[m]> ah yeah that one
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14:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause> you can add/remove intermediate nodes if you don't agree with the suggested route
14:53:43  <CornsMcGowan[m]> Eddi|zuHause: i feel like i'm getting the short end of the stick - what if i implement all these features and your feedback is "ah i still don't like it"
14:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and it has alternative routes for certain optimisation criteria (e.g. speed vs. length)
14:54:26  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nielsm: what do you mean by disadvantaged?
14:55:31  <Eddi|zuHause> CornsMcGowan[m]: i don't think i can dispel these concerns of yours
14:55:35  <nielsm> a player building manually would probably spend several months of game time on building a route that a player using the autobuilder could build in half a month of game time
14:56:27  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i see, but i feel the two players you propose aren't playing to the same goal
14:56:56  <andythenorth_> the most yak-shaving-reduction tool for me would be building 1, 2, 3, or 4 tracks at once
14:57:06  <andythenorth_> with some magic slope adjustments
14:58:04  <LordAro> CornsMcGowan[m]: not all patches are meant for "vanilla"
14:58:07  <nielsm> also consider AI
14:58:11  <LordAro> tis the way of things
14:58:27  <nielsm> if you make such a tool available to players, AI writers will also want it
14:58:39  <nielsm> and then suddenly the entire pathfinding part of AI writing is shunted away
14:58:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'd say AI would be the primary beneficiary of this tool
14:58:51  <CornsMcGowan[m]> um, doesn't AI already have access to the A* pathfinding library
14:59:18  <nielsm> not really no, AIs technically have to implement pathfinding themselves
14:59:20  <nielsm> in squirrel code
14:59:26  <Eddi|zuHause> no, AI authors reimplemented A* in their own libraries
14:59:30  <nielsm> and it just happens that most use the same library for it
14:59:51  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i see
15:00:19  <nielsm> and as far as I understand, that was one of the design goals for NoAI, to explicitly _not_ provide any built-in pathfinding
15:00:49  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh spooky, i didn't know that
15:00:54  <CornsMcGowan[m]> is there a reason for that?
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15:01:26  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nvm you said already what could possibly happen
15:02:15  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm shame
15:02:22  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i really do think mobile users would benefit from this
15:02:37  <CornsMcGowan[m]> and PR'ing to trunk is the only way to get it there i think
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15:04:12  <nielsm> give the mobile version a virtual touchpad to move the mouse cursor around and it'll play (almost) the same as for most laptop users
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15:06:35  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i guess so
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15:09:10  <CornsMcGowan[m]> wasn't there a time before Autorail and Autoroad
15:10:12  <nielsm> yes originally there were only directional build tools
15:10:56  <nielsm> and originally in Transport Tycoon the diagonal rail tools were not draggable
15:11:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember playing the original game and always pressing 1-4 for directions
15:11:32  <nielsm> I personally never use autorail, it's too finicky to hit the direction I want to build, but always use autoroad
15:11:54  <nielsm> yep left hand on 1234 keys and right hand on mouse
15:12:02  <CornsMcGowan[m]> omg non draggable diagonal rail
15:12:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i always use autorail, but only with dragging
15:12:08  <nielsm> and QWE keys for switching to landscaping tools
15:12:30  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i use autorail/road and yeah QWE landscaping
15:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> once you start dragging, it's not important where you started the click
15:12:49  <CornsMcGowan[m]> also the ctrl-F6/7/8 for the build tools and the rest of the number row
15:13:53  <nielsm> hm maybe I should derail a valley or two, for a change
15:14:25  <nielsm> they claim to have improved stability a lot with last week's patch
15:14:39  <CornsMcGowan[m]> what do you mean derail a valley :0
15:15:02  <nielsm> Derail Valley, a train driving simulator
15:15:17  <CornsMcGowan[m]> oh yeah that game
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15:17:46  <CornsMcGowan[m]> huh
15:18:03  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nielsm: https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:RailPathfinder describes how to use the pathfinder
15:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a horrible page
15:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause> it misses some basic introductions
15:19:54  <nielsm> the pathfinder it talks about is a library
15:19:56  <nielsm> not built-in
15:20:39  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i see
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15:32:20  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i guess we'll start with step 1: implementing a burst/64k frame limit for construction?
15:32:54  <CornsMcGowan[m]> would y'all accept that into trunk
15:35:20  <nielsm> yeah that'd be a good feature imo, since it would also limit what modified clients can do
15:36:06  <nielsm> tuning the default limits could be a bit time consuming, it would probably involve benchmarking a bunch of skilled players
15:37:57  <dP> imo if there is automatic rail tool it should do a bloody good job
15:38:10  <dP> last thing I want to see is people building spaghetti just because it's faster
15:38:24  <CornsMcGowan[m]> HAHA
15:39:27  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nielsm: how would we go about benchmarking players
15:40:50  <nielsm> implement all the construction limits and just set the limits to infinite, but also add some logging of what values the limits hit
15:41:40  <nielsm> so it's possible to pull statistics like "95% of the time veteran players never go above X burst"
15:41:55  <nielsm> or whatever
15:43:33  <CornsMcGowan[m]> hm
15:43:41  <CornsMcGowan[m]> curiously
15:44:01  <CornsMcGowan[m]> actually i'll see how straightforward it is to implement this first
15:44:51  <dP> also I still think it's better to make a polyrail smarter than do a fully automatic rail planner
15:45:07  <dP> it's still about as fast for most practical purposes but leaves player with a much more control
15:48:29  <CornsMcGowan[m]> what about limiting the max path length for the rail planner? e.g. max 50 track sections built/planned at once
15:48:40  <CornsMcGowan[m]> also im not sure how to make the polyrail smarter
15:48:52  <andythenorth_> I can't remember what the usability issue was with polyrail
15:48:59  <andythenorth_> something was 10% wrong with the implementation
15:50:10  <dP> starting new polyrail is a bit tricky to figure out but once you do it's great
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15:58:54  <CornsMcGowan[m]> nielsm: what actions would construction limit include?
15:59:52  <CornsMcGowan[m]> i don't think stations should be included
16:02:12  <CornsMcGowan[m]> since i think they're the one element that can be built in a rectangle area rather than a line
16:09:17  <CornsMcGowan[m]> okay i'm going to
16:09:32  <CornsMcGowan[m]> implement this feature on my fork
16:09:46  <CornsMcGowan[m]> y'all can get a feel of how it works when its in a playable state
16:10:33  <CornsMcGowan[m]> and if its agreed it shouldn't be in trunk then it can be kept as a patch or proposed to 3rd party clients
16:23:04  <CornsMcGowan[m]> is the maintainer of the mobile app on here?
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17:23:36  <Wolf01> o/
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17:40:12  <Gustavo6046> Oh, so that one tune in I think it was Modern Motion... turns out it was a Hotel Giant track. Gee, I never knew it, until I saw it in a video completely unrelated to OpenTTD. I was like, "whaaa"
18:11:33  <supermop_Home> hi
18:28:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz closed pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJUDi
18:28:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJTT8
18:28:32  <b_jonas> Minningwell Ridge local authority doesn't allow this. Hey town council, did you know that I own all the roads here, I built them for you before I made you rich from oil, so I can just destroy enough of them to place my railway tracks. Joke's on you, local authority, with your insatiable hunger of trees! I love being a tycoon with lots of cash and no morales.
18:31:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJTTg
18:32:52  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJTT6
18:35:25  <andythenorth_> yo
18:35:47  <nielsm> what do you do when your diesel loco is low on fuel and you know the route will be mostly downhill for the next several km?
18:36:13  <nielsm> you of course switch off the engine to save fuel, and pray to have enough brake reservoir for managing the speed downhill
18:36:59  <andythenorth_> you need regen :P
18:40:10  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8257: Refactor GUI rendering: Add documentation and name `Viewport` consistently https://git.io/JJTTh
18:40:54  <b_jonas> another one built? just how many oil refineries does this map need?
18:41:44  <CornsMcGowan[m]> yes
18:42:21  <Wolf01> Bah, redeemed only 3 games on this month's humble choices
18:42:43  <milek7> nielsm: brake reservoir?
18:42:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJTkT
18:44:27  <nielsm> pressurised air tank filled by the locomotive's compressor, used to recharge the brake pipe pressure when brakes are released
18:50:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8257: Refactor GUI rendering: Add documentation and name `Viewport` consistently https://git.io/JJTk8
18:51:37  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz closed pull request #8257: Refactor GUI rendering: Add documentation and name `Viewport` consistently https://git.io/JJUyq
18:53:16  <LordAro> oh dear
18:54:02  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8257: Refactor GUI rendering: Add documentation and name `Viewport` consistently https://git.io/JJTk2
18:54:24  <andythenorth_> is it naptime?
18:55:47  <frosch123> the brexit story from yesterday is finished
18:56:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8255: Prepare: Update core function headers for refactor of GUI rendering https://git.io/JJTkw
18:56:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz closed pull request #8256: Refactor GUI rendering (based on JGRPP) https://git.io/JJUDh
18:58:10  <LordAro> i think i broke him :(
18:58:30  <LordAro> i don't think i was unreasonable?
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19:01:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8257: Refactor GUI rendering: Add documentation and name `Viewport` consistently https://git.io/JJTkS
19:01:51  <frosch123> i don't know the whole story. but when outside people reformat/apply style, they have always run into a wall here
19:02:46  <frosch123> i hope none encouraged them to do so
19:03:28  <nielsm> here the issue is mainly piggybacking large-scale "cosmetic" changes on functional changes
19:03:38  <LordAro> i wanted them to split a couple of unrelated changes out into separate PRs
19:03:50  <LordAro> but they've just built 3 PRs on top of each other
19:03:50  <nielsm> and separating them out is a huge chunk of work
19:03:54  <LordAro> which defeats the point
19:04:15  <nielsm> one approach would be just to submit one of those PRs at a time
19:04:27  <nielsm> and submit the next when the first is merged
19:05:03  <LordAro> that would work, except their "first" PR has stuff that goes in the second PR
19:05:09  <LordAro> (adding unused functions and the like)
19:05:38  <nielsm> yea, and juggling code chunks around between commits can be a massive chore
19:10:58  <glx> he seems motivated enough to do it right
19:12:18  <andythenorth_> oof graphs https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8253
19:12:54  <nielsm> we need to chunk out the entire graph thing and do statistics over from scratch
19:13:05  <LordAro> that is such a James103 issue
19:15:52  <LordAro> and not that i'm trying to beat him or anything, but it took me all of 5 minutes and 3 sed commands to do the viewport renames
19:16:07  <LordAro> it's trivial to split those changes out
19:17:09  <andythenorth_> 8253 is perfectly reproduced, accurate, perceptive, creative diagnostics
19:17:17  <andythenorth_> shame it's just not really in any way significant
19:18:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #8204: cmake: make install DESTDIR="something" ignores GLOBAL_DIR option https://git.io/JfM9j
19:18:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #8218: Add: [CMake] More improvements for install https://git.io/JfHu1
19:18:25  <andythenorth_> I do enjoy these https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/hj3c4c/openttd_8bit_binary_multiplier_wip_by_jewogrfs/
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19:28:39  <dP> andythenorth_, yeah, if only people reported crashes and desyncs like that xD
19:32:06  <glx> at least for crash we usually have the log and the dump (nice bonus when we also get the reproducing steps)
19:32:35  <glx> but yeah james' reports are nicely made
19:42:04  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #8249: CMake: Not possible to cross-compile due to settinsgen/strgen https://git.io/JJvbJ
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21:40:49  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8259: Fix: Globally apply preprocessor directive coding style https://git.io/JJTYb
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21:42:26  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz opened pull request #8260: Codechange: Spell 'Viewport' consistently https://git.io/JJTYj
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21:59:01  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8259: Fix: Globally apply preprocessor directive coding style https://git.io/JJTOP
21:59:59  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8260: Codechange: Spell 'Viewport' consistently https://git.io/JJTOM
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22:40:50  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8259: Fix: Globally apply preprocessor directive coding style https://git.io/JJTsM
22:42:25  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8260: Codechange: Spell 'Viewport' consistently https://git.io/JJTsA
22:42:46  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8260: Codechange: Spell 'Viewport' consistently https://git.io/JJTsp
22:44:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8259: Fix: Globally apply preprocessor directive coding style https://git.io/JJTGT
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23:10:24  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8260: Codechange: Spell 'Viewport' consistently https://git.io/JJTnn
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