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01:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ... no? 01:25:28 <Gadg8eer> So... I found out something that may have been overlooked in implementing NRT. 01:27:45 <Gadg8eer> powered_roadtype_list (and NFO equivalent) has outbound compatibility but not inbound compatibility. Which means that I was able to make the Utility Roadtype Set compatible with all other roadtype sets, but only Ufiby can make URaTT compatible with other roadtype sets, and only Andrew350 can make RaTT compatible with other roadtype sets. 01:27:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if you're requiring backchanneling to every sentence, you've made a poor choice in communication medium 01:28:22 <Gadg8eer> Backchanneling? 01:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that's when you talk to someone and they say "yes", "hm", "ok", "and then?" 01:29:22 <Gadg8eer> Sorry, I just don't have my PC connected to IRC at all times. 01:29:42 <Gadg8eer> So I say something and then miss the response. 01:30:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i'm saying. most likely there won't be any response... 01:31:38 <Gadg8eer> Anyway, like I said, NRT is only "outbound compatible". If someone wants vehicles for ROAD to run on a roadtype they created, they have to contact the creators of every NewGRF that replaces ROAD via NRT and then hope the creator will accomodate them. 01:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds backwards 01:32:41 <Gadg8eer> It is, but I tested it. It's totally true. 01:33:59 <Gadg8eer> Okay, maybe "totally" was a bad choice of words. I tested it, it's completely true. 01:35:38 <Gadg8eer> I can provide source code for you to compare against other roadtypes' source if you want. 01:35:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't help you with that, but the original railtype specs were never designed with multiple track sets loaded at the same time in mind 01:36:14 <Gadg8eer> Yes, but railtypes have inbound compatibility. 01:37:14 <Gadg8eer> You can add the RAIL railtype to TEST's "compatible_railtype_list" and all trains for RAIL will work on TEST. 01:37:51 <Gadg8eer> Otherwise it would be impossible to have mixed-guage railtypes. 01:37:59 <Eddi|zuHause> why would that be different for roads? 01:38:04 <Gadg8eer> I'm not sure. 01:38:18 <Gadg8eer> All I know is I tested it and I'm telling the truth. 01:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's never a convincing sentence by itself 01:39:21 <Gadg8eer> Try using RaTT or URaTT with Utility Roadtype Set and Utility Truck Set. 01:39:22 <b_jonas> there are road types besides the two basic ones too now? 01:39:46 <b_jonas> I knew that openttd now supports more than four rail types in a game, but not about the road types 01:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer: i'm not going to try anything. 01:40:38 <Gadg8eer> Sorry, forgot to say eGRVTS2. Use the NRT version of eGRVTS2 and the Utility Truck Set with the Utility Roadtype Set and either URaTT or RaTT. Or don't, but I'm telling you it's true. 01:41:12 <Gadg8eer> It might be that "powered_railtype_list" is outbound and "compatible_railtype_list" is inbound, but only "powered_roadtype_list" exists for NRT. 01:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no, that is nonsense 01:42:18 <Gadg8eer> And yes, there are now more roadtypes. There's like six original NRT roadsets and 5 "trimmed down" roadsets I made because there's only room for 64 roadtypes. 01:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> "powered" is for vehicles that drive by themselves (engines), and "compatible" is for vehicles being dragged along (wagons) 01:42:39 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 01:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> since all road vehicles are engines, "compatible" is meaningless and omitted 01:43:01 <Gadg8eer> Look, I'm not trying to lie about this. If you want, I can record a video that shows what's happening. 01:43:08 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 01:43:41 <Gadg8eer> I'm serious. Compatibility for NRT is outbound. 01:44:17 *** b_jonas has quit IRC 01:44:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer: you should probably write a ticket. and find out whether the spec is wrong, or the implementation 01:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer: and make a minimal testcase 01:46:16 <Gadg8eer> The wiki actually backs me up. https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Roadtypes 01:46:57 <Gadg8eer> That's the spec, right? 01:47:47 <Eddi|zuHause> no, NFO is the "master" spec 01:48:17 <Gadg8eer> The NML spec says it works the way I described. The game works as described when tested. 01:48:35 <Gadg8eer> And every NRT GRF is coded in NML. 01:49:43 <Gadg8eer> I understand if the NFO spec is more important, but I've never really dealt with NFO so please explain further. 01:51:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Gadg8eer: the question is what you want us to do: change the specs to match your expectations, or change the implementation to match the specs 01:52:11 <Gadg8eer> The implementation already matches the specs. My expectations are that I shouldn't have to pester someone in order to have my NewGRFs compatible with theirs. 01:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if the implementation matches the specs, this means you need a really convincing argument (and i'm not the person you need to convince) 01:53:58 <Gadg8eer> Look, for just a moment, can you put aside the infallability of the OpenTTD Devs and assume they overlooked the fact that the NewGRF that replaces ROAD is the one which gives the NewGRF's creator power over other NRT NewGRFs? 01:54:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i said everything that i can say. 01:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> take it or leave it 01:55:11 <Gadg8eer> What is wrong with you?! I told you, regardless of whether it was intentional or accidental, NRT has outbound compatibility. 01:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, look. i'm saying this just once over: 1) write a ticket, 2) make a minimal test case, 3) have a good argument 01:56:27 <Gadg8eer> Alright, fair enough. 01:56:36 <Gadg8eer> Where can I write a ticket? 01:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> on github.openttd.org 02:07:00 <Gadg8eer> Is there a specific section for NRT, or should I just submit the ticket under Issues? 02:07:37 <Eddi|zuHause> probably just submit it 02:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause> also remember that conversations on IRC are fleeting, so any important points you brought up here you need to bring up again in the ticket, or they will be lost 02:25:51 <glx> as I understand the specs, https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Roadtypes#Powered_road_type_list_.280F.29 is exactly like https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Railtypes#Compatible_rail_type_list_.280E.29 02:31:57 <glx> but a flaw in nml implementation is possible 02:36:08 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gadg8eer opened issue #8275: NRT uses "backwards" roadtype intercompatibility https://git.io/JJZ3X 02:37:10 <Gadg8eer> Whoops. Should I mention it's an issue with NML? Should I submit the issue under NML instead of OpenTTD? 02:37:47 <glx> openttd implementation may be wrong too 02:38:49 <Gadg8eer> Alright, thanks. 02:45:07 <glx> " If you want road vehicles of other road types to be able to run on your road types, you must set the powered road types property for each road type. Setting these properties behaves always incremental, so you only need to the set additional bits for each other road type, you cannot remove poweredness once it is set (by some other grf)." 02:45:59 <glx> so basically you just need to update ROAD definition in your grf 02:58:00 <Gadg8eer> Oh. Well I wish someone had told me that earlier. Thank you! 02:58:53 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Gadg8eer commented on issue #8275: NRT uses "backwards" roadtype intercompatibility, at least in NML https://git.io/JJZ3X 02:59:51 <glx> as often nml doc is less informative than the full spec 03:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i still haven't figured out how to make money in tropico... 03:04:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i've arrived in modern times, and since then i'm only losing money 03:24:33 *** glx has quit IRC 03:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> that's 5 attempts... i think i should quit 03:46:56 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 03:55:20 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 05:56:52 *** Gadg8eer has quit IRC 06:09:26 *** Gadg8eer has joined #openttd 06:20:52 *** Gadg8eer has quit IRC 06:23:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 08:01:43 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 08:01:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 08:08:38 *** tokai has quit IRC 08:10:13 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd 08:17:12 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 08:22:03 *** cHawk_ has quit IRC 08:32:39 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 08:45:58 *** keoz has joined #openttd 09:11:10 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:39:05 *** cHawk_ has joined #openttd 10:08:13 <_dp_> Never in my wildest dreams did I imagine that one day my openttd debug output would look like this: https://i.imgur.com/cv6aYwp.png 10:08:40 <CornsMcGowan[m]> christ what are you doing 10:09:03 <CornsMcGowan[m]> is this for citymania shenanigans? 10:09:08 <CornsMcGowan[m]> something to do with town spacing is my guess 10:10:05 <CornsMcGowan[m]> at when exactly (from/to) does cargo ageing applies? 10:10:30 <CornsMcGowan[m]> disregard that poor grammar 10:10:36 <CornsMcGowan[m]> also how does it work together with transfer orders? 10:14:45 <argoneus> which troico Eddi|zuHause 10:14:51 <Eddi|zuHause> 6 10:15:47 <argoneus> im considering getting into it but not sure if i shoud get 6 or 4 10:17:15 <argoneus> i guess ill get 4 considering it's a lot cheaper 10:26:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, 6 was on a free weekend last week 10:26:51 <LordAro> _dp_: that is a thing 10:40:43 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 10:44:58 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8267: Extend viewport renaming PR to include Squirrel API https://git.io/JJZzy 10:50:48 *** nielsm has quit IRC 11:38:39 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:09:23 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 12:26:06 *** openttdguest has joined #openttd 12:54:15 *** glx has joined #openttd 12:54:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:03:09 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:12:00 *** Gadg8eer has joined #openttd 13:20:03 *** Gadg8eer has quit IRC 13:22:47 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on issue #8272: Stopped vehicule destination should be red when mouse over https://git.io/JJ35w 13:31:20 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 13:58:14 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:00:32 *** gelignite has quit IRC 14:01:42 *** tokai has joined #openttd 14:01:42 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 14:07:01 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 14:11:40 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 14:21:44 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 14:29:52 *** openttdguest has left #openttd 15:00:43 *** cHawk_ has quit IRC 15:04:47 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:20:16 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 15:20:32 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 15:23:04 *** dvim has quit IRC 15:23:23 *** dvim has joined #openttd 16:12:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:12:32 *** cHawk_ has joined #openttd 17:13:24 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:19:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:23:56 *** b_jonas has joined #openttd 17:30:00 *** cHawk_ has quit IRC 17:55:24 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 18:17:06 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:17:45 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:17:51 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 18:59:28 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 19:30:57 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 19:33:16 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:14:27 <supermop_Home_> boring day in this channel I guess 20:30:32 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:39:40 <Wolf01> Heh... 20:39:55 <Wolf01> Cat is missing 20:53:26 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:00:49 *** Gadg8eer has joined #openttd 21:00:59 <_dp_> looking for a better grass color... https://i.imgur.com/82x8Ab2.png 21:01:15 <_dp_> default grass doesn't go well with snow :( 21:03:50 <_dp_> probably shouldn't do that on night mode xD 22:02:09 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 22:02:55 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:06:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:16:49 *** GT has joined #openttd 22:18:33 <GT> So, after 13 years, no 32bpp screenshot ever won the Screenshot of the Month competition. Should we remove it? 22:25:59 <GT> Or are the 32bpp .grfs just too ugly? 22:32:13 <_dp_> I'm not following screenshot competitions but I'm yet to see any good 32bpp combo. What I've seen is either straight up shit or is mixed with 8bpp so also looks meh. 22:33:55 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 22:39:32 <GT> Yeah, mixing with 8bpp is ugly, I agree. Perhaps because not everything is available in 32bpp. But take this example: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1233814#p1233814 . What part would you cal l straight up shit? 22:40:14 <glx> the buttons ;) 22:41:19 <GT> :-) absolutely true. I think abase tried to do something about it. Not sure if it was better. 22:42:05 <glx> I'm still using original gfx 22:45:41 <GT> Yes, many people do. And it's everybody's personal choice. But 32 bpp in trunk (or master or whatever it is called these days) . But what is it that people don't like about 32bpp exactly? 22:46:30 <glx> I think the main issue with 32bpp is that most grf are still 8bpp only 22:49:07 <GT> Yes, that is quite disappointing. I have not been around for 8 years or so. At that time many tars were available, and Rubidium ever provided a script to convert from pngcodec'ed tars to grf. But very little tars were actually converted since then. 22:49:20 <glx> and I'm used to original GUI, opengfx sprites don't look bad, but I don't like the GUI 22:49:25 <GT> *ever->even 22:51:25 <_dp_> GT, that screenshot is just a mismatched mix imo. toyish buildings with realistic trees and 8bpp landscape 22:55:47 <glx> landscape is definitely 32bpp in the screenshot 22:55:58 <glx> just look at the fields 22:56:37 <_dp_> idk, mb it is 32bpp but looks low res 22:56:53 <_dp_> empty grass doesn't even match grass under rails 22:57:19 <glx> same for the roads 22:58:52 <glx> water looks bad too 23:06:12 *** gelignite has quit IRC 23:06:34 <GT> I agree on most of your remark. Just trying to find the problem spots, so it can be improved. Personally I would add that the rail track are too bland, and that the small houses at the left of the flats of Keningbury are not very nice. 23:28:53 *** Gadg8eer has quit IRC 23:28:57 *** Gadg8eer has joined #openttd 23:41:21 *** Gadg8eer has quit IRC 23:41:24 *** Gadg8eer has joined #openttd 23:49:47 *** Laedek has quit IRC 23:50:04 *** Laedek has joined #openttd