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Log for #openttd on 24th August 2020:
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00:04:17  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
00:21:32  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
00:25:06  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz commented on pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JUfR0
00:30:00  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
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02:02:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
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02:45:30  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
03:00:20  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
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03:39:28  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
03:41:12  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
04:01:43  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] techgeeknz updated pull request #8285: Rewrite `OverflowSafeInt` to avoid undefined behaviour https://git.io/JJgcH
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08:52:29  <andythenorth> yo
08:59:45  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] valisak opened issue #8298: Feature requests https://git.io/JUfDp
09:01:15  <LordAro> lo andy
09:04:05  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8298: Feature requests https://git.io/JUfDp
09:06:12  <LordAro> should probably close that
09:08:13  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] valisak commented on issue #8298: Feature requests https://git.io/JUfDp
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09:10:24  <LordAro> https://docs.github.com/en/github/building-a-strong-community/configuring-issue-templates-for-your-repository issue templates have changed a bit too - might be worth taking the opportunity to improve them a bit
09:23:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #8298: Feature requests https://git.io/JUfDp
09:23:58  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #8298: Feature requests https://git.io/JUfDp
09:24:14  <LordAro> i meant to spend some time on OTTD this weekend
09:24:22  <LordAro> then i got distracted by rewatching Band of Brothers
09:25:23  <Wolf01> Hmmm, train lenght in purchase list... isn't it already there?
09:26:02  <Wolf01> Oh, ok, purchase != depot
09:27:06  <andythenorth> oh that number :)
09:27:08  <andythenorth> the one that lies
09:27:22  <Wolf01> :D
09:28:06  <andythenorth> I can't remember the rounding error, or how to trigger it
09:28:13  <andythenorth> but my 10 year old noticed it also
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10:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well... it rounds to 1/10th, but the length is in steps of 1/16th
10:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so 0.3+0.3 might be 0.5 or something
10:40:57  <andythenorth> yeah, it's that
10:41:14  <andythenorth> rounding can be unintuitive
10:41:44  <Wolf01> So, I'm doomed again... high score on netflix
10:42:01  <_dp_> wonder if making it a hex fraction will make it better or worse xD
11:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: probably worse :p
11:08:26  <andythenorth> I have never understood those numbers
11:08:31  <andythenorth> what are they supposed to help?
11:09:05  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc we were considering using fractions: 1/16, 1/8, 3/16, 1/4 etc. but it would be complicated to display, and maybe take too much space
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12:25:35  <Timberwolf> Story books should save and load their pages by themselves, right? (i.e. if I create a page and some elements in a story book by GS, I don't need to do anything in my GS to have OpenTTD correctly save and load them)
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12:55:05  <_dp_> Timberwolf, yes, otherwise it wouldn't work in mp
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14:09:08  <FLHerne> andythenorth: Making your trains not be too long?
14:12:36  <andythenorth> but why the weird decimals? o_O
14:32:04  <supermop_Home> basically because know it is 5.1 instead of 5.0 is the salient information?
14:34:04  <andythenorth> yes it's so useful
14:34:11  <andythenorth> I have 3 vehicles here
14:34:20  <andythenorth> they are all 0.4 if on separate lines of the depot
14:34:27  <andythenorth> if I combine two of them, they're 0.4
14:34:33  <andythenorth> if I put all 3 together, they are 1.0
14:34:37  <andythenorth> I fucking love this stuff :)
14:34:40  <andythenorth> great UI
14:34:51  <andythenorth> did we make it for April 1st as a troll?
14:35:04  * andythenorth asked for an option to hide it recently :P
14:35:20  <andythenorth> hmm, my rant is as usual inaccurate due to haste
14:35:21  <_dp_> it's not just ui, they can really change length when combined :p
14:35:27  <andythenorth> if I combine two of them, they're 0.7
14:35:30  <andythenorth> so 0.4 = 0.4
14:35:35  <andythenorth> 0.4 + 0.4 = 0.7
14:35:41  <andythenorth> 0.4 + 0.4 + 0.4 = 1.0
14:36:58  <_dp_> hm... are they 5/8?
14:37:08  <andythenorth> how would I know?
14:37:09  <andythenorth> oh
14:37:11  <andythenorth> de-compile the grf?
14:37:30  <_dp_> or check with debug vehicles I guess
14:37:31  <andythenorth> I can't be arsed to de-compile the grf
14:38:07  <andythenorth> newgrf inspector doesn't include length
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14:39:27  <_dp_> yeah, only 5/8 behaves like that
14:39:57  <andythenorth> I am curious how 5/8 + 5/8 + 5/8 comes out at 16/8
14:40:09  <_dp_> though I agree that ui makes no sense whatsoever
14:40:26  <andythenorth> because it's wrong, it's junk
14:40:28  <_dp_> would be better with simple fractions or just smth like 7:8
14:40:36  <andythenorth> or 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
14:40:37  <andythenorth> etc
14:40:41  <_dp_> andythenorth, it doesn't 15/16 ~= 1
14:40:53  <andythenorth> why do I want to build a 3.7 tile long train?
14:41:00  <andythenorth> is it some kind of signal spacing optimisation?
14:41:07  <andythenorth> does it confer hidden pathfinding benefits?
14:41:21  <andythenorth> are there station grfs with 5.8 long tiles?
14:41:33  <andythenorth> can I make FIRS prefer 8.3 long trains?
14:41:44  <andythenorth> :o :o :o :O :o :o :o :O
14:41:57  <andythenorth> I COULD USE THE LENGTH TO SET THE LIVERY
14:42:03  <andythenorth> lifetime achievement unlocked
14:42:05  <_dp_> it's probably kill gameplay save realism kind of situation :P
14:42:38  <andythenorth> _dp_ good point, it is very important to make accurate scale length trains when simulating British Rail timetable 14th May 1987
14:43:04  <andythenorth> how many feet is 4.6 tiles?
14:43:29  * andythenorth should do other things and stop talking nonsense on the internet
14:48:59  <supermop_Home> is a bucket hat just a sailor hat with the brim flipped down?
14:49:11  <supermop_Home> i feel like my mind is blown here
14:49:26  <andythenorth> questions I never knew
14:50:22  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: According to tiles a train travels per day, around 1,900 miles.
14:50:35  <andythenorth> that is quite big
14:50:47  <andythenorth> I have a class 37 at 8/16 of a tile
14:50:58  <andythenorth> I figured 8/16 was 60-70 feet
14:51:19  <andythenorth> 413 miles is a lot more than 60-70 feet
14:51:30  <andythenorth> oh wait my maths is wrong
14:51:52  <andythenorth> yeah so 8/16 is 206 miles, that's ok
14:52:34  <Timberwolf> About the length of a Class 37, give or take.
14:52:46  <andythenorth> just a rounding error I think
14:53:11  <andythenorth> I await Eddi|zuHause to point out we've got it wrong
14:53:13  <andythenorth> but I'm convinced
14:54:17  <Timberwolf> I'm trying to think if there's a more broken scale you can infer from some game property or other.
14:56:51  <supermop_Home> it seems by hat lineage its more that the sailor hat is a bucket hat with the brim turned up than vis versa
14:59:40  <supermop_Home> irish farmer hat becomes fishermans hat, then dressy version becomes part of us navy uniform
14:59:57  <Eddi|zuHause> not entirely sure which part of that you'd want to be wrong...
15:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, before we introduced the weird rounding decimals, it used to count halftiles, which was... silly
15:01:10  <supermop_Home> seems like most other navies just wear the Russian style instead
15:01:16  <andythenorth> Timberwolf is the track gauge 8ft in original base set?
15:01:16  <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/XGndwQU.png
15:03:35  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: now you need to scale that by daylength factor
15:04:53  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: also, there's a thing where the ratio between a / tile and a – tile isn't sqrt(2), but 2
15:06:47  <Eddi|zuHause> (the sqrt(2) is rounded to 1.5 in some cases as well)
15:17:36  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, I don't play daylength :p
15:17:55  <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, also, which part of my image looks like sqrt(2) to you? :p
15:32:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it uses the rounded sqrt(2)
15:34:32  <_dp_> @calc 24 * 128 * 16 * 4 / 3 / 2 / 74
15:34:32  <DorpsGek> _dp_: 442.810810811
15:34:36  <_dp_> that's what it uses :p
15:35:00  <_dp_> @calc     24 * 192 * 16 * 4 / 3 / 2 / 74
15:35:00  <DorpsGek> _dp_: 664.216216216
15:35:19  <_dp_> that's in kmhish so a bit off
15:37:09  <_dp_> though whoever come up with 128 and 192 could be thinking of sqrt(2) I guess
15:37:27  <_dp_> that or he might have just been on crack :/
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15:52:58  <Timberwolf> andythenorth: In the original graphics the road markings are 3 pixels wide (give or take antialiasing). UK road markings are typically 20cm width so a tile of railway track is either 2.1m (/ and |) or 4.3m (-).
15:53:23  <andythenorth> I vote for 4.3m
15:53:38  <andythenorth> have you done the trigonometry to account for the viewing angle?
15:54:15  <Timberwolf> No, I hadn't. I spent most of my time trying to find something more out-of-scale than the road markings :)
15:59:05  <Timberwolf> I think 4.3m tiles are also commensurate with the distance a plane travels in real time (not game days) at default planespeed.
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16:10:49  <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: it didn't mention crack in the "making of" section of the TTO manual. but i wouldn't rule it out :p
16:11:15  <Eddi|zuHause> unfortunately i lost that manual
16:13:31  <andythenorth> I tend to assume crack
16:13:36  <andythenorth> for most explanations
16:13:41  <andythenorth> especially reading my own commits
16:20:52  <andythenorth> hurrah!
16:21:01  <andythenorth> Jake is now getting the FIRS feature requests :)
16:21:10  * andythenorth successful evasion of responsibility 
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16:21:33  <andythenorth> FIRS is now XIS
16:36:32  <frosch123> bug: grf names must be 4 letters
16:37:07  <D-HUND> heehee
16:57:59  <TrueBrain> hmm, seems Docker Hub wants to be made redundant, interesting ..
17:01:49  <TrueBrain> from first of November, you can only do 100 pulls per 6 hours (what a WEIRD way to note the amount of pulls allowed)
17:01:59  <TrueBrain> so that is .. 15 per hour?
17:02:12  <TrueBrain> so yeah, our CI reached that number pretty often :P
17:02:18  <TrueBrain> like ... 2 PRs per hour, and you are done
17:02:39  <TrueBrain> the rate limit is based on docker-id or IP .. well, good luck Azure DevOps, I hope you have many many many IPs in your pool :P
17:03:01  <TrueBrain> clearly, Docker, or who bought Docker, decided to finally make some money out of it ..
17:03:15  <TrueBrain> sadly, the only result will be people (finally?) moving to decent other registries :)
17:05:04  <TrueBrain> time to start using the GitHub Registry, I guess :)
17:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i've read a report from someone who uses google cloud stuff, and says google is retiring products so rapidly that he has no choice than to fall back to basic VMs
17:05:11  <frosch123> does the ci pull the complete image every time? or does it cache the old image and only compare the heads?
17:05:29  <TrueBrain> we get a new VM for every CI build
17:05:34  <TrueBrain> not sure if DevOps caches it internally
17:05:45  <TrueBrain> my best bet is: no, it does not
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17:06:00  <SpComb> have they announced two such major changes now?
17:06:00  <TrueBrain> don't get me wrong, I can fully understand that the AWS bill for Docker Hub is insane, and that they want to reduce it
17:06:07  <TrueBrain> but this feels like they are just cashing in
17:06:19  <frosch123> and i was worried about cloning 1GB for the wiki data... :p
17:06:20  <TrueBrain> well, that is the other weird thing .. they first announced the retention, which is fine
17:06:26  <TrueBrain> and now a few weeks later, the pull limit
17:06:38  <SpComb> it's as if somebody finally took a look at the AWS spend for Docker hub and realized that it's actually costing them money
17:06:52  <frosch123> yeah, weird that they did not put it into one mail
17:06:52  <TrueBrain> I would reason more: they paid a lot of money for Docker, and now want to see a return
17:07:07  <TrueBrain> and of course many companies cannot migrate quickly, so they will be paying :)
17:07:19  <TrueBrain> but, honestly, it is only 5 euro a month
17:07:55  <TrueBrain> but now I am curious what their next announcement is going to be :P
17:08:14  <andythenorth> I do wonder about walled garden clouds
17:08:28  <andythenorth> and getting stuck :P
17:08:32  <TrueBrain> anyway, this pull limit -is- an issue for OpenTTD, and does need addressing :)
17:08:49  <TrueBrain> migrating to GitHub Actions (finally :P) would be wise, and using GitHub Registry would be the easy solution
17:08:54  * andythenorth choose a OS / phone ecosystem with 100% walled garden
17:08:59  <TrueBrain> GitHub Package Registry is free, but does require authentication
17:09:53  <SpComb> https://docs.docker.com/docker-hub/download-rate-limit/ this is linked to from the May release notes, taking full effect in november
17:10:48  <TrueBrain> they are now sending out the emails pointing out the policy change
17:11:10  <TrueBrain> this will also hurt many developers btw
17:12:08  <supermop_Home> why is jersey post a thing
17:12:17  <TrueBrain> who?
17:12:31  <supermop_Home> why don't they just use royal mail
17:12:42  <Eddi|zuHause> what?
17:13:13  <supermop_Home> just received a parcel sent via "Jersey Post" which i'd never heard of
17:13:39  <supermop_Home> this is really a question for anglosphere weirdos like andy i guess
17:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> is that regular jersey or new jersey?
17:13:48  <supermop_Home> old jersey
17:14:29  <supermop_Home> though no idea how this record managed to originate on some small island with no industry?
17:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i misunderstood it, but jersey isn't actually part of the "UK" but kind of separate "crown land"?
17:14:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it's kind of a tax haven
17:15:02  <andythenorth> supermop_Home is it Trystero?
17:15:02  <supermop_Home> but as a crown holding, wouldn't its mail still be royal?
17:15:35  <supermop_Home> andythenorth i have yet to open it but i expect it is the ladytron album i ordered
17:15:36  <Eddi|zuHause> might be a bit confusing if you have two separate royal mails :p
17:16:49  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, doesn't mean they only operate in jersey (that would likely be a very limited business model)
17:16:59  <supermop_Home> andythenorth it does have a trumpet / bugle symbol on the sticker
17:17:04  <Eddi|zuHause> like, Deutsche Bahn doesn't only operate trains in germany
17:17:37  <supermop_Home> i didn't care for lot 49 much myself
17:19:00  <andythenorth> pynchon doesn't seem to like it
17:19:05  <andythenorth> I enjoyed most of it
17:19:31  <andythenorth> I really really liked Inherent Vice
17:19:37  <supermop_Home> somehow Pynchon never really grabbed me
17:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think this is still english words
17:19:52  <supermop_Home> i did watch I.V. on a plane once tho
17:20:40  <supermop_Home> never read the book, but the movie left me with an uneasy feeling - unsure if i liked it or hated it
17:20:46  <andythenorth> classic Pynchon
17:20:52  <andythenorth> I read Gravity's Rainbow in India, I had dysentry
17:20:58  <andythenorth> the combination was not ideal
17:21:13  <supermop_Home> and also with a deja vu of the feeling i had on finishing 49
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17:50:16  <supermop_Home> well Wikipedia on lot 49 -> The Phone Company -> The president's Analyst -> James Coburn
17:50:28  <supermop_Home> so this was a productive half hour
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18:48:04  <andythenorth> is cat?
18:50:29  <Wolf01> Yes
18:51:50  <Wolf01> So, discovering lost railways, longboat adventures on english canals, high score on netflix?
18:53:46  <andythenorth> netflixwhack
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21:09:42  <FLHerne> frosch123: Do you have a strong objection to me merging https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/150
21:09:45  <FLHerne> ?
21:10:22  <FLHerne> IMO it's clearly an improvement on the current behaviour, and the issue you pointed out isn't one that I can tell :p
21:11:17  <frosch123> go ahead
21:11:42  <FLHerne> In that case, can someone review it? ;-)
21:12:37  <FLHerne> (sorry for bringing it back up after weeks, I got sidetracked by other stuff)
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21:28:42  <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] LordAro approved pull request #150: Fix #147: rounding issues https://git.io/JUJ3p
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