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00:01:55 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:08:26 *** tokai has joined #openttd 00:08:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 00:15:10 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 00:21:19 *** heffer has quit IRC 00:21:29 *** heffer has joined #openttd 00:36:49 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 00:36:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 00:43:51 *** tokai has quit IRC 01:21:20 *** heffer has quit IRC 01:21:29 *** heffer has joined #openttd 02:21:18 *** heffer has quit IRC 02:21:28 *** heffer has joined #openttd 02:30:07 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Montandalar commented on issue #7831: Crash on placing vehicle in group that used to contain 1 vehicle https://git.io/JerJc 02:34:43 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 03:11:13 *** glx has quit IRC 03:21:22 *** heffer has quit IRC 03:21:31 *** heffer has joined #openttd 03:51:59 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:55:19 *** debdog has quit IRC 04:00:26 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:21:19 *** heffer has quit IRC 04:21:28 *** heffer has joined #openttd 05:26:26 *** heffer has quit IRC 05:26:41 *** heffer has joined #openttd 06:06:22 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 06:15:23 *** longtomjr has joined #openttd 06:21:20 *** heffer has quit IRC 06:21:30 *** heffer has joined #openttd 06:25:02 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:34:54 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:58:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:09:02 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:21:20 *** heffer has quit IRC 07:21:31 *** heffer has joined #openttd 07:25:19 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:37:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:43:47 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:49:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:50:15 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:54:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 07:55:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:57:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:21:19 *** heffer has quit IRC 08:21:28 *** heffer has joined #openttd 09:29:13 <TrueBrain> oops, found a bunch more pages that are not in the current wiki export ... missing templates that are included :D 09:29:20 <TrueBrain> they were not reported yet :P 11:16:16 <TrueBrain> right ... after first startup, startup times are now a lot better :D w00p .. I think I found a clean way to cache all this metadata stuff :P 11:24:45 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro closed issue #7831: Crash on placing vehicle in group that used to contain 1 vehicle https://git.io/JerJc 11:24:46 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on issue #7831: Crash on placing vehicle in group that used to contain 1 vehicle https://git.io/JerJc 11:41:38 <FLHerne> > In addition, \<hex> (up to two characters) inserts the byte <hex>, and \U<hex> (up to four characters) inserts the UTF-8 encoding of the character U+<hex> 11:42:05 <FLHerne> How does grfcodec know when it's got to the end of 'up to'? 11:47:12 * FLHerne tries to read the code, but asks anyway in case it's in two places or incomprehensible 11:47:58 <FLHerne> If it's only the version in readinfo.cpp, it's actually surprisingly readable... 11:59:17 <FLHerne> ... 12:00:02 <FLHerne> `ctoi` returns the numeric value of a hex digit, e.g. 11 for 'b' and 0 for '0' 12:00:13 <FLHerne> It *also* returns 0 in case of failure 12:01:27 <FLHerne> So each caller has to do `if (ctoi(ch) == 0 && ch != 0) ...` 12:01:43 <FLHerne> If only there were more than 16 numbers 12:02:16 <FLHerne> Perhaps they were introduced in the same reality-update as spaces 12:04:26 <FLHerne> * != '0' 12:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that's basically like "on error resume next"? 12:25:12 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Sorry, I have no idea what you just said :p 12:25:42 <Eddi|zuHause> i meant the "treat all errors as 0" 12:26:22 <FLHerne> I suppose it would be, except the callers then go out of their way to not do that 12:28:35 <Eddi|zuHause> some egoistic dick saying "it's faster this way" making it worse for everyone else 12:30:45 <Eddi|zuHause> from a software engineering perspective, the solution here should be that the function is never called with invalid characters in the first place 12:32:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so treat "ch is a valid hex digit" as a precondition 12:33:10 <FLHerne> That, or return -1 12:33:31 <FLHerne> Or literally anything else that's not in the range 0-15... 12:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm assuming here that you can't change the function 12:33:46 <FLHerne> Well, it's grfcodec 12:34:02 <FLHerne> I'm only reading it because I wanted to know what the behaviour was 13:30:32 <TrueBrain> that was your mistake honestly :P 13:30:33 <TrueBrain> :D 13:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> still, i maintain that with this function the "correct" approach is to make it a strict precondition, rather than trying to figure out whether there was an error after the fact 13:57:59 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:06:19 <TrueBrain> right, editing pages that takes 10+ seconds before the metadata is updated, is no longer blocking the web :) 14:06:31 <TrueBrain> it does its thing in the background now :) 14:14:30 <TrueBrain> these small QoL changes consume a lot of LoC :P 14:32:21 <TrueBrain> I am honestly still surprised I can do "FROM" in images that come from Docker Hub on GitHub Actions .. I am just waiting for that rate limiter to hit honestly :P 14:46:11 *** Execthts has joined #openttd 14:46:14 *** Exec has quit IRC 14:49:00 *** milek7 has joined #openttd 14:51:10 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 14:51:29 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 14:51:50 *** arikover has joined #openttd 14:52:25 *** milek7_ has quit IRC 14:54:45 *** TinoDidriksen has quit IRC 14:54:56 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd 14:55:28 *** TinoDidriksen is now known as Guest4921 14:56:27 *** Guest4921 is now known as TinoDidriksen 14:57:19 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 14:58:41 <arikover> andythenorth: Thank you for Iron Horse 2.9.0! I added a PR for the french translation. 14:59:15 * andythenorth reads 14:59:56 <andythenorth> "Ouaip" :) 15:00:18 * andythenorth learns a thing 15:01:12 <andythenorth> merged 15:13:47 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:21:20 <TrueBrain> so 2.9.1 incoming? :P 15:26:06 <andythenorth> you guessed 15:26:25 * andythenorth ponders dynamic translations for newgrf, no release :P 15:26:34 <andythenorth> could never work 15:27:08 <longtomjr> Might work for gs 15:37:47 <TrueBrain> "please send in a chat message the base64 encoded translation you would like to use" 15:37:48 <TrueBrain> :D 15:37:54 <TrueBrain> what could POSSIBLY go wrong :D 15:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe give it a week in case more translations trickle in? 15:43:29 <andythenorth> could do 15:43:34 <andythenorth> releases are cheap-ish 15:43:34 <TrueBrain> or two weeks 15:43:37 <TrueBrain> or a month 15:44:05 <andythenorth> TrueBrain you trying to keep AWS costs down? 15:44:08 <andythenorth> :P 15:44:20 <TrueBrain> YES! That is the excuse why I am trolling :P 15:46:26 <TrueBrain> right, lets see if the wiki wants to start on staging .. 15:47:04 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone know why my wine has no sound? 15:47:41 <TrueBrain> because you are suppose to drink it? 15:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... it's some pulseaudio shenanigans where it picks the wrong device 15:48:44 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I am going to request credits again on the AWS Open Source plan .. how will it go this year you think? 15:48:51 <TrueBrain> I have to remember what I filled in last year ... 15:49:58 <andythenorth> copy-paste-send 15:50:23 <TrueBrain> I need to find my IRC logs back for that :P 15:58:42 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 16:02:21 <longtomjr> Credits? 16:02:38 <longtomjr> Aaah, did you get credits last year? 16:13:41 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:14:54 <TrueBrain> luckily enough we did 16:14:59 <TrueBrain> otherwise we wouldn't be this far in the migration tbfh :) 16:17:11 <TrueBrain> lol .. I always love the AWS calculator 16:17:18 <TrueBrain> it always give me these numbers that are not realistic 16:26:09 <TrueBrain> right ... filled in the form .. now to wait for andythenorth 's feedback if my text is good enough :P (he is much better in convincing people to give us money) 16:26:21 <TrueBrain> requested twice as much funds this year as last .. will see if they like us enough :) 16:29:29 <longtomjr> :) 16:29:50 <longtomjr> What is used to make up the difference? 16:30:00 <TrueBrain> what difference? :P 16:30:07 <TrueBrain> but say we would run out, donations 16:31:04 <TrueBrain> the main thing we currently cannot afford, is serving 1% of the BaNaNaS entries .. the 1% costs like 300 euro a month 16:31:15 <TrueBrain> so without AWS's support, we would to find an alternative means for that 16:31:21 <TrueBrain> either by dirt-cheap VPS from OVH 16:31:24 <TrueBrain> or .. by stop hosting it :P 16:31:50 <TrueBrain> otherwise we haven't had to need to hold a fundraiser in ... years and years 16:31:58 <TrueBrain> and mostly OpenTTD donates to tt-forums 16:32:22 <TrueBrain> (as you might have spotted, we nowhere actively request for donations .. yet people are more than kind enough to donate sufficient funds a year for us to pay bills) 16:32:53 <longtomjr> Yep, to be honest I had to go look for it now, have never seen a donation link or anything. 16:33:28 <longtomjr> Wait, these OVH vms are cheap, what is the catch? 16:33:39 <TrueBrain> not much .. well, unmanaged hosting 16:33:44 <TrueBrain> I guess that is the catch 16:34:30 <longtomjr> I can save a month on my current openttd server hosting, and not have to resort to using swap. That is almost halving my costs. 16:35:33 <TrueBrain> the idea of the AWS migration was to get away from unmanaged hosting .. as I don't have the time, and nobody seems to care enough to help out :P 16:35:44 <TrueBrain> but .. managed hosting costs more money, especially on traffic 16:36:05 <TrueBrain> it is worth that money honestly :) 16:36:30 <longtomjr> Yep 16:36:46 <TrueBrain> okay, wiki is "running", login just fails :P 16:36:49 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/ 16:38:39 <longtomjr> Let me know once that works :) 16:39:47 <TrueBrain> ah, found the issue .. spaces :D 16:39:53 <TrueBrain> well, staging is nothing to do any work on 16:40:00 <TrueBrain> every change is COMPLETELY forgotten every restart 16:40:02 <longtomjr> Yep, but testing right 16:40:15 <longtomjr> I can try breaking it? 16:40:34 <TrueBrain> yes you can 16:40:44 <TrueBrain> I haven't done a check myself, so I am pretty sure you can break it easily :) 16:41:07 <longtomjr> Is there specific things that I should be testing? 16:41:22 <TrueBrain> nope 16:41:26 <TrueBrain> I just wanted to bring it online tbh 16:41:37 <TrueBrain> wanted to see how the resources etc are doing :) 16:41:47 <longtomjr> Ah ok, so I should do a lot of clicking 16:41:55 <longtomjr> or start a bot farm 16:42:27 <TrueBrain> honestly, not sure if testing is useful atm :) 16:42:31 <TrueBrain> we know there are broken links etc 16:42:36 <TrueBrain> right, login fixes 16:43:06 <longtomjr> Cool, works 16:43:19 <TrueBrain> clearly it needs better caching, that is for sure 16:43:23 <longtomjr> Ok, let me know once testing will be more usefull 16:43:43 <TrueBrain> will do! Tnx :) 16:43:48 <TrueBrain> owh, I love sentry .. 16:43:54 <TrueBrain> seems someone triggered a boo-boo :) 16:44:11 <longtomjr> I clicked back when the login was still broken from the login screen 16:44:16 <longtomjr> gave me a 500 16:44:17 <TrueBrain> (any server error you receive doesn't need reporting; I know quicker what is going on than you can type :P) 16:44:25 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I made a boo-boo there :) 16:44:43 <TrueBrain> seems bananas-api has the same boo-boo, so that is interesting :) 16:44:54 <longtomjr> Hehe, I should get sentry up for our application, or just do it manually with our logging stack and alertmanger + pagerduty 16:45:19 <TrueBrain> sentry makes my life so much easier ... 16:45:24 <TrueBrain> people not always report error pages 16:45:29 <TrueBrain> and if they do, you have to figure out what caused it 16:45:35 <TrueBrain> with sentry .. often in minutes I found out what is going on 16:45:49 <TrueBrain> like this exception .. it is so obvious from the sentry report 16:45:54 <longtomjr> Negatives of working for a startup is that paying services are not always an option. 16:46:10 <TrueBrain> but sentry is worth any money, honestly 16:47:08 <longtomjr> Gonna be a hard sell at that price currently, I got our staging cluster to be cheaper than it. 16:47:21 <longtomjr> Hmm, maybe I can get the board interested since this is a metric they might want to see 16:47:30 <longtomjr> that might be my angle to get this approved 16:48:36 <TrueBrain> it is 26 dollar a month 16:48:43 <TrueBrain> honestly, if a startup cannot pay that ... 16:49:06 <longtomjr> Yep I know, but there is a lot of saas stuff already on our bill 16:49:11 <TrueBrain> you going home 10 minutes early costs more :P 16:49:26 <TrueBrain> but anyway, I love Sentry :) 16:49:28 <longtomjr> They can pay it, but they try to be conservative 16:49:59 <longtomjr> So it is more about justifying the costs, otherwise it can get out of hand. 16:50:09 <longtomjr> Anyways, will give sentry a try for sure :) 16:50:33 <TrueBrain> it is free for Open Source, so that made it a lot easier for OpenTTD :D 16:50:45 <longtomjr> Oh wait, all of our stuff is FOSS 16:50:46 <TrueBrain> right .. staging shows I need to fix caching by .. a lot :P 16:50:55 <longtomjr> So we can get it for free then 16:51:03 <TrueBrain> yup 16:51:48 <TrueBrain> 17ms to generate and transmit the manual page .. lol 16:52:28 <longtomjr> You can probably just render server side and only update the cache when the page were edited right? 16:52:31 <TrueBrain> just that images are not cached is annoying while browsing :) 16:52:42 <TrueBrain> there most likely will be 2 "instances" of the wiki 16:52:44 <TrueBrain> 1 where you edit 16:52:49 <TrueBrain> which does client-side caching 16:52:51 <TrueBrain> and 1 where you view 16:52:56 <TrueBrain> which is most likely a prerender of everything 16:53:17 <longtomjr> Prerender just need to be updated if any linked templates etc change 16:53:30 <TrueBrain> yup 16:54:49 <TrueBrain> right, it takes ~40 seconds to clone the GitHub repository ... hmm .. I think I will cache that in EFS 16:54:54 <longtomjr> do you know how long it takes the render the whole wiki 16:54:59 <TrueBrain> ~10 minutes 16:55:10 <TrueBrain> and most of that is CPU-bound work 16:55:45 <TrueBrain> I/O seems to cost ~2 seconds .. lol .. 16:56:11 <longtomjr> Are you trying to get the startup sequence to be quicker? 16:56:31 <TrueBrain> if/when the container starts to flip/flop, there might be an issue 16:56:40 <TrueBrain> as that means it will pull 500MB from GitHub every N minutes 16:56:58 <TrueBrain> I am not the biggest fan of that 16:57:07 <TrueBrain> startup of 40 seconds is fine; they have 5 minutes to start up basically 16:57:24 <TrueBrain> but this is an aiohttp application .. crashing it, is REALLY difficult honestly 16:58:07 <TrueBrain> so I might just leave it for now 16:58:42 <longtomjr> I mean as long as the container does not report ready untill it is done, and you have some replicas it should be fine 16:59:44 <TrueBrain> this won't have a replica, but it is fine nevertheless :) 17:00:02 <TrueBrain> it only reports ready if HTTP starts to response, which is after the GitHub repo is cloned 17:00:26 <TrueBrain> it currently cannot have a replica, as sessions are stored in memory 17:00:35 <TrueBrain> for the "edit" server, that is fine 17:00:39 <TrueBrain> the view part needs replicas :) 17:01:35 <longtomjr> Sessions? 17:01:40 <TrueBrain> if you login 17:01:41 <TrueBrain> session 17:01:42 <TrueBrain> :) 17:02:08 <longtomjr> Why do you need that? 17:02:16 <TrueBrain> because it is easier to implement 17:02:22 <TrueBrain> I need to check out encrypted cookies 17:02:24 <TrueBrain> which solves that problem 17:02:29 <TrueBrain> but .. something with priorities :) 17:03:09 <TrueBrain> but if sessions are not in memory, I can make an EFS share for the data, and 2 "edit" servers can run next to each other 17:03:14 <TrueBrain> that would be neat :) 17:03:26 <TrueBrain> just ... no need .. as if the "edit" server is down, nobody really cares :P 17:03:31 <TrueBrain> it is annoying, but that is about it :) 17:06:33 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:07:21 <TrueBrain> still not sure how I want to do the "view" part tbh 17:07:37 <TrueBrain> I now have code that detects what file changed in a repo (based on a cache), so I know exactly what files to invalidate 17:08:27 <longtomjr> And you know which templates link to which pages and other templates? 17:08:42 <TrueBrain> yup 17:08:48 <TrueBrain> I know exactly what is no longer valid 17:08:57 <TrueBrain> so I am thinking just pushing to S3, CloudFront, done 17:09:07 <TrueBrain> and after new upload, send a /** cache invalidation to CloudFront 17:09:21 <TrueBrain> might be the easiest thing to do .. 17:09:29 <TrueBrain> lol @ spammers ... this email ... let me see if I can share it .. 17:09:46 <longtomjr> ah CloudFront is their CDN 17:10:04 <longtomjr> Yep, that makes sense, I though object storage -> CDN as well as the simplest 17:10:20 <TrueBrain> yeah, there are a few things that need to be considered 17:10:26 <TrueBrain> for example, when you go to a page that doesn't exist 17:10:30 <TrueBrain> it should give you the option to edit it 17:10:34 <TrueBrain> so that is a bit tricky :) 17:10:42 <TrueBrain> Lambda@Edge, but .. I need to see how that works :) 17:11:00 <TrueBrain> pretty sure for v1 I just start an "edit" server :P 17:12:19 <longtomjr> So data flows from EditServer -> S3 -> CDN -> Lambda 'server' -> Browser? 17:12:39 <TrueBrain> Lambda@Edge is like CloudFlare workers 17:12:46 <TrueBrain> they sit on either end of the CDN 17:12:57 <TrueBrain> but for v1, I am just going to launch what is now on staging 17:13:05 <TrueBrain> it is not the fastest, but it will be fine 17:13:21 <TrueBrain> after that, a GitHub Actions that renders all pages, uploads to S3, CloudFront serves these pages 17:13:27 <TrueBrain> a Lambda@Edge checks if the page exists on S3 17:13:33 <TrueBrain> if not, returns a "Edit this page" 17:13:42 <TrueBrain> login points to edit.wiki.openttd.org or something 17:13:50 <TrueBrain> but, not for now 17:13:53 <TrueBrain> now first this: https://pasteboard.co/JyG0LLQ.png 17:14:04 <TrueBrain> that last line cracked me up 17:14:37 <longtomjr> Uuuhg yep 17:14:39 <longtomjr> lol 17:14:58 <TrueBrain> WE ARE NOT SPAMMERS WE JUST TALK IN CAPITALS AND SEND YOU UNWANTED EMAIL 17:15:11 <TrueBrain> I wonder what the success rate is, honestly 17:15:14 <TrueBrain> anyway, dinner time 17:15:19 <longtomjr> Yep, also, Android released 12 years ago 17:15:25 <longtomjr> so at least they did some homework 17:19:18 <TrueBrain> Often they email us follow up emails for 4 months 17:19:30 <longtomjr> uugh 17:19:31 <TrueBrain> This is on info@ of OpenTTD btw 17:19:43 <longtomjr> same email address? 17:19:49 <longtomjr> sender 17:19:54 <TrueBrain> We had those in the past, yes 17:20:06 <TrueBrain> We will see how much of a spammer this dude is :) 17:20:19 <TrueBrain> Sorry: supplied of unwanted email 17:20:28 <TrueBrain> Supplier.. typing hard 17:22:13 <andythenorth> are we buying an app? 17:22:25 <longtomjr> True wiki needs a mobile app yep 17:22:27 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:22:39 <longtomjr> so we need to get on that, or outsource it 17:27:30 <andythenorth> if only someone would offer the service 17:43:20 <TrueBrain> I would appreciate it if they send us an email making the offer 17:47:33 <andythenorth> me too 17:47:37 <andythenorth> but I never check email 17:47:45 <andythenorth> I do get these things on linkedin sometimes 17:51:18 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:54:20 <andythenorth> something something Github Archive Program 17:54:26 <andythenorth> GH sent me a message 17:56:15 <longtomjr> To add your grfs to the arctic vault? 17:56:26 <andythenorth> OpenTTD stuff 17:56:30 <andythenorth> I didn't read it properly 17:56:40 <longtomjr> we need good train and industry sets after the apocolypse 18:11:10 <longtomjr> we will also need a spellchecker 18:11:53 <andythenorth> slow cloudfront invalidation is slow 18:12:07 <frosch123> which language are we going to establish after the apocalypse? 18:12:11 <andythenorth> perl 18:12:17 <andythenorth> obvs. 18:12:27 <longtomjr> some lisp dialect 18:12:34 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:12:45 <longtomjr> since that is probably what the universe is coded in 18:12:51 * andythenorth must release Iron Horse 18:12:59 <andythenorth> who wrote this bananas HTML eh? 18:13:03 <frosch123> did you find some unbalanced parantheses? 18:13:10 <FLHerne> Nah, it was meant to be, but it's really kludged together in Perl 18:13:10 <andythenorth> kinda 18:13:14 <FLHerne> <insert xkcd> 18:13:27 <longtomjr> https://xkcd.com/297/ 18:13:39 <longtomjr> wrong one 18:13:42 <FLHerne> https://xkcd.com/224/ 18:14:03 <andythenorth> frosch123 I genuinely thought you referred to this :P 18:14:04 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/iron-horse/commit/25ec8b132e66736c9d53e63e2a802b94101e072d#diff-aa49fc1669a810be92efb088aff7f95867383a1ddac0fc0cb3784cf3913d3672 18:14:20 <andythenorth> as I just looked at that commit, and my brain made the wrong connection 18:15:19 <andythenorth> clearly that commit was a lisp coder 18:15:44 <longtomjr> The previous commit 18:16:18 <longtomjr> I know limited amounts of lisp. Enough to keep me out of trouble when hacking emacs 18:16:29 <andythenorth> arikover 2.9.1 now on Bananaas 18:16:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: i worded the question intentionally ambiguous, to see whether someone would suggest esperanto or ido. but i did not expect an iron horse diff :) 18:18:35 <andythenorth> nobody expects the Iron Horse Diff 18:18:59 <frosch123> :) 18:19:34 <frosch123> i saw that sketch the other day, otherwise it would have been to obscure 18:21:30 <longtomjr> Just read up about it, that is quite interesting 18:21:56 <andythenorth> 4 more years 18:21:58 * andythenorth back to trains 18:22:08 <longtomjr> choo choo 18:23:27 <longtomjr> Have the boats been shelved? 18:23:47 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:32:49 <andythenorth> strictly no 18:33:07 <andythenorth> just fermenting 18:37:50 <longtomjr> Ah oke 18:45:55 <TrueBrain> they just cancelled all our vacations till mid January .. at least that is a rather clear instruction :D 18:48:48 <andythenorth> who they? 18:49:07 <TrueBrain> prime minister, in this case 18:51:11 * andythenorth provides non-covid, non-election news service https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-bristol-54792843 18:52:27 <longtomjr> TrueBrain, like vacations to go somewhere? 18:52:34 <longtomjr> or time off? 18:52:54 <TrueBrain> lol, sorry, I was a bit unclear .. in Dutch it is a bit more clear: out-of-country travel :) 18:53:29 <longtomjr> Ah ok 18:54:01 <frosch123> are there exemptions for open-source-meetups? 18:54:17 <TrueBrain> even family visits are not allowed out-of-the-country :) 18:55:03 <frosch123> "yay we longer have to visit out aunt in law" 18:55:07 <frosch123> +no 18:56:06 <TrueBrain> pretty funny how bad journalists were, asking stupid stupid STUPID questions 18:56:26 <TrueBrain> they were like: on what legal base do you not allow us to go out of the country? It is allowed by law! 18:56:37 <TrueBrain> like .. dude ... he is telling you: PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't go unless you REALLLYLYYYYYLYLYYLY have to 18:56:58 <longtomjr> Are you in the Netherlands? 18:56:58 <TrueBrain> why does it immediately has to be a law etc ... use your fucking brain or something? 18:57:11 <TrueBrain> owh, if that wasn't clear yet of all the conversations we had, yes, longtomjr :P 18:57:34 <longtomjr> I just remembered that Flemish and Dutch are 2 different languages 18:57:45 <frosch123> yay, can you disable the "mail from external source"-banner for trusted-unencrypted/unsigned-known customers? 18:57:49 <longtomjr> I should have been able to deduce that 18:57:57 <andythenorth> we have a prime minister 18:58:03 * andythenorth that was all 18:58:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol .. that still going on? :D 18:58:35 <TrueBrain> well, our prime minister took .... not many words to tell the journalist he is an idiot .. just not directly .. in very nice words .. 18:58:48 <TrueBrain> but I like how he can be like: dude .. wtf ... is this what you waste our time with? reallllyyyy???!!! 18:58:53 <TrueBrain> he doesn't say it ... but owh, he does :P 18:59:01 <frosch123> TrueBrain: they even went to the senior ceo. who likely has an assistant to deal with that modern stuff 18:59:10 <TrueBrain> lol 18:59:13 <TrueBrain> popcorn :D 18:59:38 <TrueBrain> in other news: https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/en/ now auto-deploys on pushes to TrueWiki :) 18:59:47 <longtomjr> yaay! 19:00:08 <TrueBrain> as added bonus it logs everyone out :D 19:00:35 <frosch123> TrueBrain: other suggestions were to move the banner to the bottom, to make it less visible 19:00:52 <TrueBrain> as ... that is what it is for .. to make it LESS visible ... 19:00:52 <TrueBrain> lol 19:01:24 <frosch123> i did not detect any troll answers :) 19:01:29 <frosch123> i think they were all serious 19:01:45 <TrueBrain> Chrome renders the wiki a lot better than FireFox ... in Chrome clicking pages is pretty fluent ... in FireFox it is not 19:02:01 <longtomjr> ewww chrome 19:03:04 <longtomjr> code is not set in query-string 19:03:07 <TrueBrain> Firefox keeps randomly forgetting to get things from cache 19:03:19 <longtomjr> Did sentry send you something? 19:03:31 <TrueBrain> no, I fixed the bug, it should give you that page :) 19:03:39 <TrueBrain> as that should only happen if you do something wrong, basically 19:03:57 <longtomjr> What if I want to log in, see the permissions and then click cancel 19:04:11 <TrueBrain> hmm, cancel ... pretty sure that is not a flow we implemented :D 19:04:14 <longtomjr> as in nevermind, take me back to the hompage or where I was before I clicked login 19:04:24 <TrueBrain> I guess you get the same when you do that on https://bananas.staging.openttd.org :D 19:05:06 <longtomjr> That one gave me a json response 19:05:10 <longtomjr> {"message": "code is not set in query-string"} 19:05:16 <Wolf01> Tanks fixing time 19:05:24 <longtomjr> redirected to api.bananas.staging.openttd.org 19:05:46 <longtomjr> I think this is a minor issue, just wanted to test if it still happens. 19:05:47 <TrueBrain> longtomjr: https://github.com/TrueBrain/TrueWiki/issues/20 19:06:09 <TrueBrain> as it will be really low on my list to fix, but it is a bug nevertheless :D 19:06:19 <longtomjr> 'good first issue' nudge nudge, wink wink 19:06:29 <TrueBrain> if you are up to it :P 19:07:44 <longtomjr> Hehe might pick it up :) 19:07:54 <longtomjr> For now, gonna go to bed. Night all! o/ 19:08:03 <TrueBrain> hmm ... the browser sends an If-Modified-Since .. but the server returns a 200 .. that is odd 19:08:04 <TrueBrain> night! 19:11:15 <TrueBrain> it is so weird how different it works on localhost ... who is doing what to which header ... 19:15:01 *** heffer has quit IRC 19:15:35 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I btw fixed a bug that was hiding missing templates 19:15:40 *** heffer has joined #openttd 19:15:43 <TrueBrain> so we now have more errors again :( 19:16:13 <TrueBrain> I think the main issue is that {{en/Bla}} currently always tries Template/en/Bla, en not Page/en/Bla 19:16:14 *** longtomjr has quit IRC 19:16:18 <TrueBrain> which I think sometimes the intention is 19:17:20 <frosch123> we have transclusion for regular pages? 19:17:30 <TrueBrain> I know mediawiki allows it 19:17:35 <TrueBrain> and I think we have pages like that too 19:17:43 <TrueBrain> but I haven't really looked for a page that does this, honestly 19:17:43 <frosch123> iirc that is a special setting 19:17:57 <frosch123> we enabled it for newgrfspecs, because we had a usecase 19:18:15 <TrueBrain> do I understand you correctly truewiki should not support this? :P 19:18:35 <frosch123> anyway, next release will fix many issues by trashing the pages that use them :p 19:19:33 <frosch123> i think all categories that use {{PAGESINCAT}} are now in the trash list :) 19:19:53 <TrueBrain> I assumed that "Other languages" wasn't going to be in your migration result, no :) 19:20:00 <milek7> wait, what 19:20:02 <milek7> ..what's wrong with asking about legal basis for public official statement? 19:20:25 <TrueBrain> milek7: because YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED !== WE STRONGLY ADVISE AGAINST ? 19:20:42 <TrueBrain> you have to be a REAL SPECIAL journalist if you do not understand that 19:21:09 <andythenorth> can we debate licenses? 19:21:11 <andythenorth> or licenses? 19:21:15 <TrueBrain> @whoami 19:21:15 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: TrueBrain 19:21:18 <andythenorth> or licences 19:21:21 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: sure, we can, I can @kick :) 19:21:30 <andythenorth> 4 more years 19:21:32 <frosch123> how about lisences? 19:21:52 <andythenorth> even better 19:21:59 <TrueBrain> hmm .. did I just render the whole wiki in 4 minutes? That is unusual short .. 19:22:29 <TrueBrain> seems that really was all 19:22:32 <andythenorth> pfff 19:22:41 <andythenorth> I render a whole newgrf faster than that 19:22:51 <TrueBrain> guess frosch123 has been trashing the right pages :P 19:22:52 <andythenorth> you doing it locally? 19:23:05 <TrueBrain> that was locally yes .. but on a single core .. it is a powerful one 19:23:06 <TrueBrain> but a single one 19:23:09 <frosch123> i didn't push since sunday, i think 19:23:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I haven't tried this in a week :P 19:23:24 <TrueBrain> you know better most likely how long --validate took 19:24:54 <frosch123> i read some old requests to bundle the wiki as pdf with each release 19:25:06 <TrueBrain> yeah, no 19:25:07 <TrueBrain> but we could :P 19:25:26 <TrueBrain> owh, only 1011 templates are missing 19:25:30 <TrueBrain> that is a lot less than I expected 19:25:57 <frosch123> yeah, working on that 19:26:01 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/en/Archive/Lists/Scenarios%20Based%20on%20Real%20World <- found one frosch123 19:26:24 <TrueBrain> those scenarios are not templates 19:27:09 <TrueBrain> I fully understand the use-case there btw 19:27:32 <frosch123> oh, i assumed they just linked them 19:27:38 <TrueBrain> nope, they included them 19:28:02 <TrueBrain> well, "they tried to transclude them", to use mediawiki lingo :P 19:28:13 <TrueBrain> supporting it is honestly not difficult 19:28:17 <TrueBrain> check 1 folder, check the next 19:28:31 <TrueBrain> it is more a question of: do we want this behaviour :P 19:29:01 <TrueBrain> this is btw true for all these scenario pages .. they are all not working :) 19:29:17 <TrueBrain> 338 scenario link issues :D 19:29:20 <TrueBrain> (out of the 1011) 19:29:25 <frosch123> well, i put them all into "archive" because i people should use categories 19:29:33 <frosch123> but that was assuming they were just links 19:29:52 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.openttd.org/Scenarios_by_Size_512x512 <- it does look kinda pretty 19:30:18 *** otetede has joined #openttd 19:30:33 <frosch123> i don't like that ambiguity in the template name 19:30:48 <frosch123> can/should we prefix them with ":" or something? 19:31:02 <frosch123> does mediawiki have an disambiguation rule here? 19:31:11 <TrueBrain> Main, in mediawiki case 19:31:14 <TrueBrain> Page in ours 19:31:27 <TrueBrain> we can do that it has to be: {{Page/en/Community/Scenario ...} 19:31:38 <TrueBrain> or Page: for all I care 19:31:47 <TrueBrain> make it explicit you meant a page, and I am happy :) 19:32:00 <frosch123> ok, "Page:" then 19:32:08 <frosch123> with colon, not slash 19:32:20 * andythenorth wonders how long it takes to render a newgrf 19:32:20 <TrueBrain> sounds good to me 19:32:25 <TrueBrain> that makes Template: the implied one 19:32:32 <TrueBrain> where for [[ ]] it is Page: that is implied 19:32:34 <TrueBrain> feels balanced 19:33:10 <supermop_Home> render a newgrf? 19:34:27 <TrueBrain> btw, frosch123 , you cannot have a Category folder in Page 19:34:31 <TrueBrain> or a Page folder in File 19:34:31 <TrueBrain> etc 19:34:41 <TrueBrain> none of these "reserved" words can be the first folder inside these folders 19:34:54 <TrueBrain> so no Page/en/Category 19:35:25 <frosch123> what limits that? 19:35:40 <TrueBrain> my namespace detection on one hand; but I could work around that 19:35:43 <TrueBrain> my sanity on the other hand 19:35:48 <TrueBrain> [[en/Category/Cargo]] 19:35:52 <TrueBrain> that ... just pisses me off :P 19:36:17 <TrueBrain> (it is of course [[Category:en/Cargo]] what is meant there) 19:36:53 <frosch123> but there is always a language code in first place 19:37:01 <frosch123> how would that break the namespace stuff? 19:37:06 <TrueBrain> yeah, and for that same reason you cannot have a namespace called "en" btw :P 19:37:26 <frosch123> yes, but I expected that :) 19:37:39 <TrueBrain> good point, I think I have been testing it wrong .. so the namespace detection should just work fine 19:37:48 <TrueBrain> nevertheless ... please not namespace folders inside other namespaces :P 19:37:49 <frosch123> anyway, i think we have Page:Wiki/Templates or something 19:38:00 <TrueBrain> that is fine, honestly 19:38:03 <TrueBrain> just not Page:Template 19:38:03 <frosch123> well, Page:en/Wiki/Templates 19:38:27 <TrueBrain> well, Page:en/Template :D 19:38:39 <TrueBrain> but you are right, it shouldn't be an issue 19:39:13 <frosch123> we will find out which language translates "Manual" to "File" :) 19:40:53 <frosch123> i saw some german pages which translated "File" to "Akte" (which is that paper database burocrats had 50 years ago) 19:41:26 <TrueBrain> if we want to be a good boy, we do have to translate our folders etc too 19:41:33 <TrueBrain> s/folders/namespaces/ 19:41:46 <TrueBrain> I did not prepare the code for that, but I guess it is not difficult to add 19:41:50 <TrueBrain> just .. do I want to .... :P 19:42:06 <frosch123> wikipedia does that, but it is insanely stupid. you would also have to translate <pre> <i> <div> etc 19:42:40 <frosch123> i think wikitextparser explicitly stated that it does not support localised namespaces :) 19:42:58 <frosch123> just like [[link]]trails 19:43:19 <TrueBrain> fuck those trails 19:43:24 <TrueBrain> they are language depending .. I gave up when reading that 19:43:28 <TrueBrain> that is so insanely stupid 19:44:07 <frosch123> so, either peopl can write english wikitext, or they would only use a wysiwig editor 19:44:59 <TrueBrain> but namespaces are a bit different, as they are also in the URL 19:45:28 <TrueBrain> but I think it is a really bad idea to translate them 19:45:55 <frosch123> yeah, better translate the privacy policy :p 19:53:02 <TrueBrain> okay, code-wise Page: syntax now works :) 19:53:11 <TrueBrain> I guess you have more work finding those links :P 19:53:55 <TrueBrain> do we also want to support {{Category:en/Bla}} ? :) 19:55:16 <frosch123> it would make sense if they were not so long 19:55:32 <TrueBrain> I would say ... you can link it at the bottom, that is good enough? :D 19:55:53 <TrueBrain> well, adding support is simple, but lets minimize the feature-set as much as we can, I would say :) 19:55:58 <frosch123> there are certainly more important things :) 19:56:18 <frosch123> do we support <references> though? 19:56:33 <frosch123> i forgot whether that is standard meanwhile, or still an extension 19:56:34 <TrueBrain> I did not add support for it yet, as I believe I remove all usages of them :P 19:56:48 <TrueBrain> <templatedata> similar, although that one sounds useful 19:57:00 <TrueBrain> but the only tag currently supported is "gallery" :) 19:57:54 <frosch123> never heard of a <templatedata>, but i also never used a wysiwig editor for wiki :) 19:58:20 <frosch123> <references> is used on the newgrf wiki a lot. so if you ever want to take that over from therudge, we would need it :) 19:58:23 <frosch123> but not now 19:59:05 <TrueBrain> I did not even consider that, lol 19:59:11 <TrueBrain> not a bad idea honestly 19:59:15 <TrueBrain> what does <references> do .. /me reads 19:59:29 <frosch123> footnotes 19:59:34 <TrueBrain> I see 19:59:39 <TrueBrain> well, we can add it easily if needed 19:59:43 <TrueBrain> the infrastructure is there for it 19:59:51 <TrueBrain> mediawiki-tags is modular in wikitexthtml 20:00:03 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles <- you put <ref id=foo>bar</ref> in the table 20:00:08 <frosch123> and <references/> at the bottom 20:00:08 <TrueBrain> so, not for v1, but when-ever :) 20:00:28 <TrueBrain> just 1 per page, max? 20:00:39 <frosch123> no, as many as you want 20:00:46 <TrueBrain> the <references/> part, I meant 20:00:50 <frosch123> ever <reference> clears the container of previous <ref> 20:00:55 <TrueBrain> ah 20:00:59 <TrueBrain> well, that is easy to implement honestly 20:01:06 <TrueBrain> so lets do that when we get there .. if we get there :D 20:02:05 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/TrueBrain/TrueWiki/pull/21 <- all that it took to support {{Page:}} .. most of it was adding boilerplate :) 20:08:08 <frosch123> hmm, i like the templates directory 20:08:25 <frosch123> it's like regular web frameworks, but with .mediawiki extension 20:08:41 <TrueBrain> :D 20:09:06 <TrueBrain> hmm ... I think I am going to move wikilink support from wikitexthtml to truewiki repo .. that makes more sense, it just makes wikitexthtml a bit less useful .. hmm 20:09:08 <TrueBrain> choices 20:09:21 <TrueBrain> (always difficult, what to put and what not to put in a library) 20:10:22 <TrueBrain> meh, v1 first 20:13:06 <andythenorth> put books in a library? 20:13:15 <andythenorth> sorry about me :P 20:14:17 <TrueBrain> why would I want books of you in my library? :) 20:16:39 <andythenorth> there are books about me? 20:16:41 <andythenorth> I hope they are nice 20:17:16 <frosch123> they mostly consist of percentages 20:17:20 <frosch123> going up and down 20:20:14 <andythenorth> this is a very realistic video of FIRS Horse https://youtu.be/OlFVfk3krL0?t=315 20:20:33 <andythenorth> I like the particle effects they added, but they must be fake 20:21:58 <andythenorth> I think they original is better though https://grf.farm/firs/4.0.0-alpha-3/html/industries.html#slag_grinding_plant 20:23:22 <frosch123> i didn't know they just bash it until everything comes out 20:23:29 <TrueBrain> I am still amazed you can draw that .... I cannot draw shit :P 20:23:50 <andythenorth> I can code shit 20:23:53 <andythenorth> I can code shit code 20:24:00 <TrueBrain> I promise you, you can code better than I can draw :D 20:24:07 <andythenorth> I practiced :P 20:24:13 <andythenorth> what I tell my kids 20:24:15 <TrueBrain> hmm ... wikipedia indexes where files are being used 20:24:17 <andythenorth> just keep frigging doing it 20:24:22 <TrueBrain> that sounds useful to have 20:24:55 <frosch123> yes, it's about the only useful Special: page :p 20:25:07 <frosch123> not sure whether you want to add "Special:" though... 20:25:39 <frosch123> definitely do not allow transcluding Special: pages :) 20:26:19 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.openttd.org/File:Code.png <- it is there too 20:26:24 <TrueBrain> so I was planning on adding it there 20:26:35 <TrueBrain> I was already planning on doing the same with pages 20:28:44 <TrueBrain> we cannot track files over different languages, can we? 20:32:43 <frosch123> no, that would need those File: pages :) 20:33:33 <frosch123> actually, that was the only use case we listed the other day, when discussing whether we want File: pages :p 20:33:47 <TrueBrain> yeah, I was sure we already talked about this :P 20:34:09 <frosch123> do you want them? 20:34:49 <TrueBrain> I still really do not know, honestly 20:35:07 <frosch123> just tell me where you want them :) mixed with the uploads? "File/foo.mediawiki" + "File/foo.png"? or separate dir "File/foo.mediawiki"+"uploads/foo.png"? 20:35:21 <TrueBrain> did anyone track translations of images? 20:35:33 <frosch123> yes, some do 20:35:34 <TrueBrain> Intro screen they did, it seems 20:36:03 <TrueBrain> okay, in that case, lets do it .. location, eeuuuuhhhhhh 20:36:26 <TrueBrain> "history" is interesting 20:36:32 <TrueBrain> is that of the mediawiki file, or the source file? :P 20:36:42 <frosch123> haha, mediawiki has both :p 20:36:51 <TrueBrain> owh, that is how they solved that 20:37:03 <frosch123> when you press "view history" you get the .mediawiki history 20:37:08 <TrueBrain> yeah, I see 20:37:10 <frosch123> the images are listed like in a category 20:37:39 <TrueBrain> okay, location: I would say they should be next to the image 20:37:47 <TrueBrain> that makes most sense from a GitHub perspective, I think 20:37:51 <frosch123> anyway, with lfs i prefered a separate folder for the "big" files, so I could set lfs for a directory, instead of listing random file extensions 20:37:56 <frosch123> but now that we do not use lfs... 20:38:35 <frosch123> ok, i'll put both .png and .mediawiki into the same path 20:38:54 <TrueBrain> lets see how that works out 20:40:08 <TrueBrain> will the .mediawiki always exist? 20:40:10 <TrueBrain> even if it is empty? 20:40:26 <frosch123> i can ensure that 20:40:34 <TrueBrain> do we want that? :D 20:40:42 <TrueBrain> it does make a lot of things easier, I have to say 20:40:50 <TrueBrain> makes "File" folder a lot less special 20:41:05 <frosch123> well, you code the upload form :p 20:41:14 <frosch123> migration is only once 20:41:20 <TrueBrain> so let's do that :) 20:41:31 <TrueBrain> here I was hoping you would do the upload form :P :P 20:41:56 <frosch123> two work days left :) 20:42:03 <frosch123> then finish the migration 20:42:11 <frosch123> then pick up the leftovers 20:42:17 <TrueBrain> :D 20:42:24 <TrueBrain> sounds like an excellent plan 20:47:17 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:59:22 *** otetede has quit IRC 21:10:14 <TrueBrain> right, time to deploy a new version :D 21:10:24 <TrueBrain> my short-list of shit-to-implement is getting short 21:10:29 <TrueBrain> "git commit and git push" 21:10:43 <TrueBrain> "uploading files" 21:10:57 <TrueBrain> "creating pages in folders that don't exist" 21:11:09 <TrueBrain> nothing else is on my list or comes to mind .. :D 21:11:12 <frosch123> renaming pages? 21:11:30 <TrueBrain> owh, and casing-check 21:11:33 <frosch123> link "rename folder" to "make an issue or pr"? 21:11:42 <frosch123> what? you forgot the casing check :( 21:11:50 <TrueBrain> not forget, delayed :P 21:12:30 <frosch123> same category is: protect first two path items :) 21:13:25 <TrueBrain> good point :D 21:13:45 <TrueBrain> how does someone add a new language? 21:13:53 <frosch123> via issue tracker 21:14:09 <TrueBrain> in that case I would like the same language folders in all namespaces 21:14:09 <frosch123> same for "i want to translate 'manual' into my language", "rename folder", "other mass edits" 21:14:12 <TrueBrain> with a .place-holder or what-ever 21:15:09 <TrueBrain> (as I believe you still cannot add folders in GitHub? Or does it auto-fix this these days?) 21:15:58 <frosch123> i am unsure about "rename page". i don't like redirects, so would prefer some script to rewrite all links, which would be issue/pr. but at the same time, people seem to mistype the titles of their new pages every second time 21:16:24 <TrueBrain> IF nothing links to your page, you can change the name 21:16:26 <TrueBrain> otherwise you cannot? 21:16:48 <frosch123> interesting policy 21:16:52 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/File/en/Intro%20screen.png 21:16:58 <frosch123> makes sense, just don't count links from Folder: :p 21:17:11 <TrueBrain> Folder isn't anything, funny enough :) 21:18:00 <frosch123> hmm. what is the .mediawiki called? "Intro screen.mediawiki" or "Intro screen.png.mediawiki"? 21:18:04 <frosch123> i assume the latter? 21:18:15 *** tokai has joined #openttd 21:18:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 21:18:22 <TrueBrain> yes 21:18:27 <supermop_Home> anyone have any experience with portable monitors? 21:18:29 <TrueBrain> see View Source link :) 21:20:35 <frosch123> i guess that will also fix Folder/File ? 21:21:13 <frosch123> hmm. it needs two history links though? 21:25:04 <TrueBrain> what do you mean, sorry? 21:25:11 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 21:25:36 <frosch123> one link to gh for .png, one for .png.mediawiki 21:25:46 <TrueBrain> yeah, I will solve that too, I have ideas for that 21:26:05 <TrueBrain> I think I for now add a link below the image: show history of image 21:29:39 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/File/en/ will work when the .mediawiki files are there btw 21:30:18 <frosch123> \o/ 21:30:40 <TrueBrain> https://wiki.staging.openttd.org/Folder/File/en/ too, but that is really the same link :P 21:30:44 <TrueBrain> internally it does EXACTLY the same :P 21:31:15 <TrueBrain> lol @ history link .. oops 21:31:17 <TrueBrain> something broke :D 21:31:34 <TrueBrain> haha, git@github.com instead of https://github.com :D 21:31:35 <TrueBrain> makes sense :P 21:32:55 <andythenorth> supermop_Home I have experience with reading kickstarters about them 21:33:09 <andythenorth> followed by reading about caveats, disappointments etc 21:33:26 <andythenorth> I also have experience using iPad as 2nd monitor 21:33:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] dimensi0n opened issue #76: [fr_FR] Translator access request https://git.io/JTbKi 21:43:03 <supermop_Home> I thought about buying a tablet 21:43:46 <supermop_Home> makes sense for expected use-case (wfh while travelling or otherwise being somewhere other than home) 21:44:06 <supermop_Home> as can then use the tablet for whatever people use tablets for 21:44:58 <supermop_Home> i pretty much can't get anything done with one screen 21:47:14 <TrueBrain> right, history link fixed again .. that took some effort :D 21:48:16 <andythenorth> supermop_Home is it CAD stuff? 21:48:22 <supermop_Home> can and rhino 21:48:25 <supermop_Home> cad 21:48:32 * andythenorth has been living in one screen for about 15 years 21:48:37 <supermop_Home> some photoshop and indesign 21:48:39 <andythenorth> used to have 2, but eh 21:49:13 <supermop_Home> and mostly remotely connected to my 2-monitor workstation at the empty office 21:49:41 <supermop_Home> so when connected with just one screen i have to constantly tab between them 21:50:16 <andythenorth> I made the change from 13" to 16" laptop https://9to5mac.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2019/11/16-inch-MacBook-Pro-Top-Features-vs-13-inch-MacBook-Pro.jpg?quality=82&strip=all&w=1600 21:50:20 <andythenorth> is remarkably better 21:50:32 <andythenorth> wish I'd done it years ago 21:52:33 <supermop_Home> how do you manage the room for such a thing? 21:54:25 <andythenorth> the size? 21:55:53 <supermop_Home> yeah 21:56:20 <andythenorth> it's almost the same physical footprint as this 2012 13" https://webimg.secondhandapp.com/w-i-mgl/5c2d2aa7cb9ccf59ebb0d714 21:56:24 <andythenorth> and the same weight 21:56:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: reload-if-GitHub-changes works too, but not sure it is worth the effort to install that in your repo :P 21:56:56 <andythenorth> it's about 1cm too large to fit my current bike bag though 21:57:04 <andythenorth> or my kids' backpacks I borrow 21:57:17 <frosch123> TrueBrain: no, thanks :) 21:57:38 <TrueBrain> :D 21:57:40 <supermop_Home> ive been using tiny vaios from 05 to 17 and surface book since then so i guess i have no feel for big laptops 21:57:51 <supermop_Home> literally have never had one 21:57:53 <TrueBrain> I have 11 things on my TODO .. most I will fix tomorrow I think :) 21:58:08 <TrueBrain> how is your migration going? 21:58:11 <TrueBrain> got through the User bla? 21:58:54 <andythenorth> I always had 'small' but not 'smallest' Apple laptops 21:59:05 <supermop_Home> i did have a 2010 13" mbp for work at one point though, and i did find it heavy 21:59:07 <andythenorth> and I stuck with that 21:59:27 <andythenorth> then I found an old one in my house, and noticed it was huge 21:59:35 <andythenorth> relative to current one, which is like a toy 22:00:38 <supermop_Home> https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/accessories-and-monitors/monitors/office/m14-d18140fx0-14inch-monitor/p/61DDUAR6US?cid=us:sem|se|google|nx_brand_accessories|accessories||b|193121744|110598347433|dsa-742825273171|text|brand&ef_id=CjwKCAiAnIT9BRAmEiwANaoE1YGRLLFiYirCWdbiyDL8LBxWa1ymIavA6wnBZMGqtOWvZO7TlciOJxoCpXoQAvD_BwE:G:s&s_kwcid=AL!4030!3!465624096430!b!!g!!!193121744!110598347433&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=CjwKCAiAnIT9BRAmEiwANaoE1YG 22:00:38 <supermop_Home> wE 22:00:41 <supermop_Home> gah 22:00:51 <supermop_Home> well sorry 22:00:53 <andythenorth> supermop_Home I have this open https://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewSonic-VG1655-Portable-Speakers-Frameless/dp/B087792CQT/ref=asc_df_B087792CQT/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=463167319400&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16181648138110466223&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006567&hvtargid=pla-944222988224&th=1 22:00:56 <frosch123> TrueBrain: it's like horse. the todo list was almost empty last sunday and the sunday before. but during the week we always add stuff :) 22:01:13 <TrueBrain> haha :D 22:01:35 <TrueBrain> well, truewiki is nearing feature-complete for the MvP, so hopefully that stabalizes your work too :P :D 22:01:37 <andythenorth> hmm do I really need a 2nd monitor? I don't actually do any work 22:01:42 <supermop_Home> the Lenovo seemed to have best reviews / spec for color acuity 22:02:12 <TrueBrain> memory footprint of truewiki is lower than I expected 22:02:28 <andythenorth> supermop_Home the exchange rate really sucks :P https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-61DDUAT6EU/dp/B07WC5LLTZ/ref=sr_1_3?crid=F9OQWJZQI683&dchild=1&keywords=lenovo+portable+monitor&qid=1604440917&s=computers&sprefix=lenovo+portable+%2Ccomputers%2C163&sr=1-3 22:02:34 <TrueBrain> which is nice :) Lot of memory is in the metadata cache :D 22:03:03 <TrueBrain> it takes ~2 seconds to sha256 all .mediawiki pages btw frosch123 :) I expected it would take longer :P 22:03:14 <TrueBrain> (invalidation works based on the sha256 result) 22:03:33 <supermop_Home> haha i could buy two for that much here andythenorth 22:03:55 <frosch123> can you already invalidate pages when their templates change? 22:04:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yup 22:04:14 <supermop_Home> leaving town Saturday, just hope it gets here by then 22:04:16 <andythenorth> supermop_Home yeah we took some decision somewhere that wrecked our exchange rates 22:04:19 <TrueBrain> changing en/- is a nightmare :P 22:04:28 <andythenorth> Macs gained £250 price rise 22:04:31 <TrueBrain> takes 20+ seconds before the metadata is calculated again :) 22:04:39 <TrueBrain> the recalculation is done in a separate process, non-blocking 22:04:41 <andythenorth> Bachmann diesel engines went from £85 -> £200 22:04:53 <andythenorth> Ford Transit Van went from £18k -> £28k 22:04:54 <TrueBrain> categories/translations are possibly wrong for that time, but update when it is ready 22:04:56 <andythenorth> but you know 22:04:59 <andythenorth> FREEDOM 22:05:10 <TrueBrain> owh, and it is a queue .. so if someone updates en/- 20 times, it will takes 400 seconds, and block any other request 22:05:21 <andythenorth> oh yeah, freedom to trade as well, except with the EU 22:05:28 * andythenorth grumbles 22:05:31 <supermop_Home> well all the money i was planning to waste on british train in the spring i wasted on other things 22:05:42 <TrueBrain> but .. I considered that better than blocking the user for 20+ seconds :D 22:05:44 <supermop_Home> mostly records, sneakers, 22:06:00 <andythenorth> keeping the economy going 22:06:26 <supermop_Home> wife works for the sneaker company 22:06:34 <supermop_Home> so i'm just paying her salary 22:06:46 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://github.com/TrueBrain/TrueWiki/blob/master/truewiki/metadata.py <- 275 lines to do a ~100 line job, basically :P 22:07:50 <TrueBrain> 2.7k LoC for wikitexthtml and 1.7k for truewiki .. that is excluding wikitextparser ... I guess adding features increases the LoC quickly :D 22:08:00 <TrueBrain> but still, <5k LoC for a wiki ... 22:08:42 <supermop_Home> about 5-10 % of banks and shops have boarded up here 22:10:01 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:12:31 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #166: WIP: handle labels more readably https://git.io/JTH6U 22:13:00 <supermop_Home> since sunday 22:13:34 <andythenorth> supermop_Home they expecting trouble? 22:13:49 <supermop_Home> i guess so 22:14:53 <supermop_Home> but its telling,, who boarded up 22:16:30 <supermop_Home> i have a bottle of champgne at the apartment that work sent me a while back.. 22:16:48 <andythenorth> have you placed any bets? 22:16:51 <supermop_Home> i did not choose to put it in the fridge to chill this morning 22:17:02 <andythenorth> I don't know anybody here who would dare call it 22:17:24 <supermop_Home> rather, i chose to not put it in the fridge 22:17:44 <andythenorth> in my limited circle, the view here is that it's hard to conceive of Trump yielding power 22:18:00 <supermop_Home> yes 22:18:20 <supermop_Home> also, trump did not win the vote last time... 22:19:28 <supermop_Home> so even as unpopular as he is, there are many legal, quasi legal, or just never tested means for him to be in office on Jan. 21 22:19:41 <supermop_Home> or to be out of office but still claiming it 22:20:13 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:20:22 <supermop_Home> and a small but loud minority of people who will listen to him 22:21:41 <andythenorth> litigation litigation litigation, until the opposition get ground down 22:22:04 <andythenorth> or he might just win a clear landslide in the colleges 22:22:23 <andythenorth> hmm has betting closed? 22:23:37 <supermop_Home> ha 22:23:39 <supermop_Home> idk 22:23:52 <supermop_Home> we don't have the same bookie culture here 22:24:47 <supermop_Home> ive been organizing dresser drawers to stay occupied 22:26:59 <supermop_Home> should go for a walk 22:26:59 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/nml] FLHerne updated pull request #166: WIP: handle labels more readably https://git.io/JTH6U 22:27:09 * FLHerne mutters about CodeQL 22:27:39 <FLHerne> Some of the reports are correct, but several are false-positives or just incomprehensible nonsense 22:28:34 <FLHerne> It's true Python isn't easy to statically analyze, but it could do with a 'conservative' mode 22:30:03 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:34:44 <arikover> andythenorth: Thanks for the update 2.9.1! By the way, should I also submit a PR if I want to update the French translation for FIRS? 22:35:02 <andythenorth> yes, but FIRS development is less stable 22:35:34 <andythenorth> the best thing is to submit against the v4-release-track branch https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/tree/v4-release-track 22:35:43 <andythenorth> and remind me when you've done it ;) 22:36:44 <arikover> oh v4 is not merged to master yet? 22:37:44 <andythenorth> nope 22:37:47 <andythenorth> I might do that soon 22:38:21 <frosch123> TrueBrain: any opinion what to do with User: links? convert them to plain text? 22:38:32 <TrueBrain> I guess .... 22:39:09 <frosch123> anyway, down to 5k6 errors :) 22:41:45 <TrueBrain> nice :D 22:42:31 <supermop_Home> helicopters out now 22:43:01 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 22:43:54 <frosch123> night 22:43:56 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:46:06 <arikover> andythenorth: "and remind me when you've done it ;)" <- will do! 22:49:06 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:51:44 *** Compu has joined #openttd 22:57:12 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:57:53 * andythenorth bed 22:57:56 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 23:07:55 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:12:00 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:48:05 <FLHerne> LordAro: What would you think about deleting all the `debug_print` methods in NML? 23:48:11 <FLHerne> Excessive? 23:49:08 <FLHerne> Most of them only work in some particular state, they're not really tested properly, and mostly duplicate the NML printed output anyway 23:49:26 <FLHerne> There are better ways to actually debug things :p 23:59:59 *** arikover has quit IRC