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00:20:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:39:47 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:50:32 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:09:04 *** dP has joined #openttd 01:09:04 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 02:14:11 *** Execthts has quit IRC 02:15:53 *** Exec has joined #openttd 03:05:59 *** debdog has joined #openttd 03:06:00 *** glx has quit IRC 03:06:22 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 03:09:23 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 04:03:39 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 04:07:03 *** debdog has quit IRC 05:48:46 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:17:29 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 06:17:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 06:24:28 *** tokai has quit IRC 06:29:31 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:45:33 *** nielsm has quit IRC 06:47:07 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 06:47:20 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 07:08:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:34:58 <andythenorth> topic :P https://twitter.com/rumpl/status/1330811090889027584 07:36:22 *** longtomjr has joined #openttd 07:54:33 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 08:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 'alias "cd.."="cd .." <-- that's a default setting in my distro 08:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> also, that one doesn't fit there, as it's not a typo but a backwards compatibility thing. because DOS allowed this 08:59:53 * orudge notices TrueBrain is being busy :D 09:00:18 <TrueBrain> so many passwords to reset :P 09:00:25 <TrueBrain> it is funny how they all act different on the activity 09:07:43 <TrueBrain> ugh, I am happy if we switched mailserver .. assuming the greylisting is smarter on zernebok 09:07:51 <TrueBrain> it sometimes takes FOR EVER for validation emails to arrive 09:09:10 <TrueBrain> lol @ OVH .. it sends an email to change your password .. that is also interesting 09:12:32 <TrueBrain> okay, that was by far the weirdest one yet .. not even "enter password twice" 09:20:16 <TrueBrain> lol ... - Password too long (needs to be less than 31 characters) 09:20:48 <TrueBrain> and ironicly, 31 characters does work 09:21:36 <TrueBrain> seems "less than" has a different meaning in French :) 09:32:44 <TrueBrain> okay, I think that is it :) 09:34:14 <TrueBrain> the only one I would like to reset is info@ .. let me see people who do access at all have access to 1password already :) 09:38:03 <TrueBrain> funny, fonsinchen and Rb also still have the info@ configured :) That leaves me with 1 user that accesses it, of which I do not know the IP .. hmmm :) 09:39:01 <TrueBrain> well, that must be orudge :) DEDUCTION dear Watson :) 09:39:21 <TrueBrain> best ISP name ever 09:40:07 <TrueBrain> orudge: if I reset the password on the new mailserver, does that affect your ability to imap sync it? 09:41:45 <orudge> TrueBrain: as long as I can find out what the passwords are, but if they're in 1pass, should be fine 09:42:05 <TrueBrain> okay, in that case I will reset the account on the new server only :D 09:43:07 <TrueBrain> it is under Socials 09:43:39 <orudge> OK, thanks 09:46:42 <TrueBrain> right, that brings OpenTTD to 2020 in password security too \o/ 09:46:51 <orudge> Only taken about 15 years ;) 09:46:53 <TrueBrain> and the bus-factor got reduced :P 10:00:10 <orudge> TrueBrain: do we still need the openttd-cdn.org domain? 10:00:52 <TrueBrain> no, we do not. It does require me to reprovision some certificates, but that will be fine I guess 10:01:31 <orudge> It's good until next September 10:01:39 <orudge> but I can cancel the renewal if we don't need it after that 10:01:48 <TrueBrain> yeah, that is fine 10:03:32 <TrueBrain> certs are valid till May 2021, so I will fix it before that time :) 10:03:56 <TrueBrain> right, so after mail, all that remains on the old VM is supybot ... for some reason I am dreading migrating it :P 10:31:29 <TrueBrain> MySQL 5.7.21 stopped .... things you don't want to see in 2020. Well, the "stopped" part is nice 10:38:54 <LordAro> it's not *that* out of date... 10:38:58 <LordAro> even still in support 10:40:18 <TrueBrain> I am shocked I upgraded in 2018, it seems :P 10:40:55 <TrueBrain> and LordAro , in case you missed your pings: if you PM me a private email address I can forward lordaro@ to, I can give you access to the 1password .. if you like, ofc 10:41:28 <LordAro> ah yes, i'll get round to that at some point... 10:41:33 <TrueBrain> euh, well, after we switched mails, lol .. oops, small print :P 10:41:40 <TrueBrain> cool :) Just wanted to make sure you got the message :P 10:41:45 <TrueBrain> no rush ofc 10:42:23 <TrueBrain> now the question: how long am I going to wait for a reply of the 3 remaining (ex-)developers? hmmm 11:42:00 *** matt21347 has joined #openttd 12:14:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:15:10 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:21:21 *** Flygon has quit IRC 12:23:10 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:24:00 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:34:05 *** arikover has joined #openttd 13:28:11 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 13:49:20 <andythenorth> hmm 13:49:49 <andythenorth> every train sprite has to be provided twice, and is triggering the duplicate detector frosch gave me 13:49:57 <andythenorth> this seems less than optimal 13:51:38 <FLHerne> Why does it have to be? 13:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably one of those deep fractal issues where you have to zoom out several layers before you can even begin fixing stuff 13:57:50 <andythenorth> to be accurate, every symmetric, non-8/8 sprite has to be provided twice 13:58:00 <andythenorth> it's a known issue 13:58:06 <andythenorth> I'm not sure it's a ticketed issue 13:58:33 <Eddi|zuHause> same sprite, different offsets, yes 13:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause> on the source code side, you can fix that with templates 13:59:15 <andythenorth> oh there is https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6846 13:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> in the resulting grf, they will still be duplicated 13:59:20 <andythenorth> yes it is documented 14:00:30 <andythenorth> Iron Horse has 53740 duplicates reported 14:00:35 <andythenorth> I'm not sure what % of total that is 14:01:54 <andythenorth> @calc 53740 / 105554 14:01:54 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.509123292343 14:01:59 <andythenorth> yeah about half is dupes 14:02:24 <andythenorth> some of the dupes are due to poor choices by me 14:02:39 <andythenorth> the majority are handling offsets for vehicles < 8/8 14:03:16 <andythenorth> I don't know if removing them would have any measurable impact on filesize or compile time 14:03:24 <andythenorth> but 20MB seems awfully large for a train grf 14:03:32 <andythenorth> and 25s compile time is very long 14:04:29 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's 50% of realsprites, which is certainly a lot. no mention of ratio between realsprites and pseudosprites, so difficult to tell overall effect 14:04:49 <andythenorth> this is realsprites 14:04:54 <andythenorth> based on counting paths to images 14:06:19 <andythenorth> I did a crude test by cutting the realsprite template from 8 to 4 14:06:29 <andythenorth> [this has 'interesting' effects in game] 14:06:43 <andythenorth> grf size drops from 20.4MB to 14.9MB 14:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, even if you reimplement the offsets to be centered/symmetrical, you need a new backwards compatibility layer 14:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> could be a grfv9 thing 14:08:19 <andythenorth> the effect on compile time is negligible 14:08:28 <andythenorth> 1s reduction on 24s run time 14:08:44 <andythenorth> but the grf filesize looks about 25% saving? 14:08:49 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds about right 14:09:29 <andythenorth> I'm concerned about grf use of bandwidth 14:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> realsprites is mostly a 1:1 read/write operation, no complicated calculations needed 14:09:54 <andythenorth> every time I ship 20MB of grf, shipping 14MB would be better 14:10:32 <andythenorth> I guess in a world where web pages are often 1MB 14:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a layer of PNG decoding, which has a don't care on sprite size, and depends only on file size 14:10:39 <andythenorth> it's not worth being concerned about 14:11:47 <andythenorth> I guess my worry is scalability 14:11:56 <andythenorth> adding 2 more rosters gives a 50-80MB grf 14:12:08 <andythenorth> where it could be a 45-60MB grf 14:12:09 *** y2kboy23_ has joined #openttd 14:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> my computer science brain screams "that's both linear scaling, nothing to worry about" 14:13:13 <andythenorth> an alternative is to publish each roster as a grf 14:13:18 <andythenorth> which the compile can achieve 14:13:26 <andythenorth> maintenance and so forth would be consolidated to one repo 14:13:31 <andythenorth> compile time would be improved 14:13:43 <andythenorth> but then how does Reddit find which Iron Horse grf to install? 14:14:34 <Eddi|zuHause> ironhorse-oceania.grf ironhorse-eurasia.grf 14:14:42 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 14:15:02 <andythenorth> plausible 14:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ironhorse-eastasia.grf 14:15:17 <andythenorth> also the joke is good 14:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i spent a total of 20 seconds coming up with that :p 14:16:45 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think people are much more likely to discover the other rosters as separate grfs 14:16:51 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 14:16:54 <FLHerne> They'll be visible in the download list 14:17:12 <FLHerne> (witness how many people don't realize FIRS has more than one economy) 14:17:37 * andythenorth considers removing everything but Steeltown from FIRS 14:17:38 <FLHerne> Also, you're not wasting clients' and BaNaNaS' bandwidth downloading rosters they don't want 14:18:08 <andythenorth> the other objection is that I might be tempted to make different parameters for different grfs :P 14:18:17 <andythenorth> which lacks discipline about design choices 14:18:26 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: when have you last looked at the fraction of bandwidth from "just download everything on bananas" people? 14:18:43 <andythenorth> hmm, there would be some shenanigans around versions 14:18:51 <andythenorth> I would really not split the repo and codebase 14:19:05 <andythenorth> so the revisions would all march in lockstep 14:19:26 <andythenorth> and the tags 14:19:49 <andythenorth> I could have a core repo, and add it to each roster as a remote? 14:19:56 <andythenorth> seems faff 14:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> you'd have to release all grfs combined when making a new tag, which has some ... corner cases 14:20:27 <andythenorth> min. compatible version could be handled ok 14:20:37 <andythenorth> but tags hmm 14:22:01 <andythenorth> oof can grfs have dependencies, like the AI libs? 14:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you can probably set them in bananas 14:33:01 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:33:11 <arikover> Yes you can set them in Bananas (That's what I did for the NARS Passenger addon, dependency NARS 2.51): https://bananas.openttd.org/package/newgrf/ac1d0101/2016-05-28T21:04:49+00:00 14:35:56 <TrueBrain> the day andythenorth finds out that you can have GRFs depend on each other :P Funny, we can even learn andythenorth new tricks :D 14:41:39 <andythenorth> TrueBrain I know almost nothing about grfs 14:41:49 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i'm not convinced that is actually a good thing :p 14:41:58 <andythenorth> fortunately we have irc :P 14:42:11 <TrueBrain> stackoverflow ftw .. wait .. is there a NewGRF section on stackoverflow? 14:42:40 <andythenorth> I could put all the trains in a core grf, disabled 14:42:49 <andythenorth> then release grfs that depend on core 14:42:52 <andythenorth> and turn trains on/off 14:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause> how does solve the "you need to download 50MB of trains you don't use" part? 14:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> +that 14:44:01 <andythenorth> don't 'people' just download everything anyway? 14:44:09 <andythenorth> and no it doesn't solve it 14:44:12 <andythenorth> oof 14:45:26 <Timberwolf> Speaking of sprite duplication, is there a way to have a station layout which combines e.g. a platform sprite that has 5 load states and a roof (or other object) which only has 1 load state? 14:47:22 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't that a thing sprite composition should be able to do? 14:47:54 <Timberwolf> Interesting, I didn't consider composition. 14:50:34 <Timberwolf> Is it supported for stations? I can only find it referenced in Action2/Vehicles. 14:51:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i honestly don't know... station spec was always a bit ... weird 14:53:25 <andythenorth> #rewrite etc 15:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i brought this up, frosch ranted at me about features that stations have that objects can't do, like repeating by drag&drop 15:19:05 *** Laedek has quit IRC 15:56:45 *** y2kboy23_ has quit IRC 15:57:50 *** y2kboy23 has joined #openttd 16:00:33 <TrueBrain> should we use IPFS for BaNaNaS? :P 16:02:19 <FLHerne> No, https://github.com/philipl/pifs 16:02:25 <TrueBrain> lol .. AWS can be fun: 16:02:36 <TrueBrain> 8:56 AM PST: Kinesis is experiencing increased API errors in the US-EAST-1 Region. This is also causing issues with (long list of services). This issue has also affected our ability to post updates to the Service Health Dashboard. 16:03:58 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: why stop at Pi? :D 16:06:39 * andythenorth has train questions 16:07:54 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:08:09 <LordAro> andythenorth: trains go choo 16:08:15 <LordAro> and occasionally choo choo 16:08:26 <andythenorth> FLHerne containers as boxes (seacans) in most cases, or show flatracks with cargo sprites, for appropriate cargos (like steel coils)? 16:08:45 <andythenorth> I already did bulktainers and so on 16:12:40 <andythenorth> https://www.europages.com/filestore/opt/product/3e/ca/FlatRackContainer_8fa21f6f.jpg 16:19:37 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I think custom containers would be neat 16:20:20 <andythenorth> I have the sprites 16:20:25 <andythenorth> I just need to write a compositor 16:20:38 <FLHerne> Never enough tooling :p 16:21:20 <andythenorth> pipe flatrack https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQb6kaMKLTWck5QrpqmqfWhe4URzEPXgGL98Q&usqp=CAU 16:23:20 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Are you going to do the little BR guard containers so that each wagon can carry 6 pax? 16:23:31 <andythenorth> tempting 16:24:20 <andythenorth> https://brickset.com/sets/4559-1/Cargo-Railway ? 16:25:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 16:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: that github link is great, except for when he forgets to mention that storing the position somewhere eats into the "100% compression" 16:28:05 <FLHerne> Well, yeah 16:28:48 <FLHerne> I think it has a compression ratio considerably < 1 for almost any data 16:30:19 <Eddi|zuHause> or... almost no data 16:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> for any compression algorithm, the fraction of data that can be significantly compressed tends towards 0 16:31:39 <FLHerne> I'm not sure what you're trying to say 16:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the trick to compression algorithms is to find sets of data that overlap heavily with the data that reasonably will be used as input 16:33:26 <FLHerne> Yes 16:34:41 <FLHerne> In this case, not only is most data not similar to early digits of π, the way it processes input byte-wise means it even sucks for data that *is* like π 16:35:23 <FLHerne> So it's useless for practically any conceivable input 16:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i'm the one that is confused, what you meant by "compression ratio < 1" 16:36:29 <FLHerne> < 1 is "better off not doing it" levels 16:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you meant <0 16:37:12 <FLHerne> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_compression_ratio 16:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i was starting from the claim of "100% compression", which would imply 1-compressed/uncompressed 16:41:10 <FLHerne> Oh, that's a slightly odd way to put it 16:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like the 2nd paragraph of the page you linked 16:42:24 <FLHerne> Then yes, it achieves <0% compression for all plausible inputs if you count the metadata 16:45:19 <Eddi|zuHause> someone probably studied that properly, instead of making wild guesses :) 16:46:53 <FLHerne> ? 16:48:55 <FLHerne> "compression ratio considerably < 1" is a correct statement, just a different way of phrasing it from the weird one they used 16:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean that you have no proof for that statement 17:00:35 <FLHerne> I read about it when it came out, so I know that someone studied it properly ;-) 17:08:32 *** Samu has joined #openttd 17:37:33 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:48:07 *** nielsm is now known as Guest6857 17:51:55 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jkyi2 17:51:55 <DorpsGek_III> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:53:11 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:53:33 *** Guest6857 has quit IRC 18:07:14 *** otetede has joined #openttd 18:12:53 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 18:21:31 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:23:25 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:23:51 <frosch123> TrueBrain: oh no, we got hacked! 18:24:31 <andythenorth> oh it's like the theme of my day recurring 18:24:35 <andythenorth> oof 18:24:59 <frosch123> search hacked by duckduckgo - whenever i try to search the wiki i get redirected to duckduckgo. 18:25:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:25:26 <andythenorth> rude 18:27:00 <Wolf01> Ha! So it isn't like that by design XD 18:28:09 <TrueBrain> Do I want to know what you are smoking frosch123? 18:29:10 <frosch123> you are the dealer 18:29:14 <TrueBrain> owh, info@ ... I could have guessed :P 18:29:46 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JC1ZY1i.png 18:29:48 <TrueBrain> to share with the group 18:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> these evil hackers nowadays. they stop at NOTHIGN! 18:30:47 <andythenorth> that would be trivially addressed 18:30:59 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i am sure the same hacker that installed duckduckgo also did reset all passwords 18:31:02 <andythenorth> Search: [input] [Go] (uses DuckDuckGo) 18:31:05 <andythenorth> wat? 18:31:09 <andythenorth> all the passwords also got reset? 18:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> they must be gathering at illegal darknet sites like this "Internet Relay Chat" 18:31:14 <andythenorth> definitely escalate that 18:31:17 <andythenorth> it's a sign of breach 18:32:11 <andythenorth> longtomjr o_O Horse Wagons fork? https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/k0weho/good_freight_wagon_gfx_set/ 18:32:20 <andythenorth> Iron [something]? 18:32:30 <TrueBrain> I send that dude a nice reply :) 18:32:33 <TrueBrain> full of xmas cheers! 18:32:44 <andythenorth> I should get a reddit account 18:32:50 <andythenorth> predict how well that would go? 18:32:59 <TrueBrain> I really appreciate the dude emailing us btw, that is really awesome (no sarcasm; that is awesome) 18:33:09 <andythenorth> oh no, FIRS is broken :( https://www.reddit.com/r/openttd/comments/k0vlvi/firs_question_recyclable_industry_chain_suddenly/ 18:33:13 <andythenorth> Suddenly also 18:33:55 <TrueBrain> seriously, how cute is that .. mailing someone the search is hacked :D 18:34:02 <TrueBrain> this made my day :) 18:35:39 <LordAro> frosch123: cute 18:43:53 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe someone emailed that :) ITS SO FLUFFY 18:45:21 *** Samu has quit IRC 18:46:01 <TrueBrain> (and for those that don't get the reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCEVTcL1bJ0 ) 18:55:50 *** tokai has joined #openttd 18:55:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 19:02:47 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 19:10:06 <andythenorth> hmm 19:10:15 <andythenorth> all containers go one way in Horse 19:10:23 <andythenorth> empty trains don't show any 19:10:27 <andythenorth> I guess they scrap them :P 19:13:13 <Timberwolf> Make it like Factorio barrelled liquids. Industries accepting containers will stop production if the empty containers aren't taken away. 19:13:44 <andythenorth> o_O 19:14:09 <andythenorth> deliver them to other places 19:17:54 <frosch123> funnily, in an ottd economy empty containers are like a secondary cargo. so they would pay more to make players transport them 19:18:56 <Wolf01> Make the price negative, so you pay to transport them 19:27:43 <arikover> Empty containers are in fact transparent in ottd. 19:27:50 <andythenorth> yes! 19:28:00 <andythenorth> problem solved :D 19:30:01 <Timberwolf> I think they should stay single use, so the sink industry is "container incenerator" and, post 2030, "container vapourising plant" 19:38:58 *** longtomjr has quit IRC 20:00:27 *** otetede has quit IRC 20:03:07 <TrueBrain> I got a reply from the "you are hacked" dude :) "it is still external and no external search engine can be as good as an internal one". 20:03:40 <TrueBrain> "not invented here" syndrome is BAAAACCCCKKKK 20:05:29 <andythenorth> hang on I can fix it 20:05:54 <andythenorth> "the site owner can't control the indexing, algorithm, or SERPs presentation of an external search engine" 20:06:11 <andythenorth> on the other hand, how much time do you want to spend on ngrams? 20:06:18 <andythenorth> or non-euclidean vector spaces? 20:06:18 <TrueBrain> well, I guess I spend the next few weeks writing my own search engine 20:06:22 <TrueBrain> maybe it can be better than google? 20:06:30 <andythenorth> they're quite fun 20:06:42 <andythenorth> we wrote one once 20:06:53 <andythenorth> to search YouTube 20:06:55 <andythenorth> it found cats 20:06:59 <TrueBrain> everyone write their own search engine exactly once :) 20:07:05 <DorpsGek> what about me? who cares about me? 20:07:14 <TrueBrain> NOBODY! Literally, NOBODY 20:07:16 <andythenorth> OMG, it lives 20:07:18 <TrueBrain> I almost turned you off today 20:07:22 <TrueBrain> just .. because I didn't care about you 20:07:48 <frosch123> it spies on everyone 20:08:28 <TrueBrain> I am going to be called into HR now am I not? :s 20:08:50 <frosch123> who is our hr? 20:08:51 <andythenorth> you are HR no? 20:09:05 <andythenorth> by default it falls to Senior Leadership Team 20:09:16 <frosch123> i did not receive any paycheck the last 12 years, i want to talk to controlling 20:09:21 *** glx has joined #openttd 20:09:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:09:27 <andythenorth> frosch123 make an appointment 20:09:32 <andythenorth> use the calendar system 20:09:57 <frosch123> we have none :o 20:10:16 <andythenorth> also, should I try and fix the 53k duplicate realsprites in Iron Horse or not (50% of realsprites are dups) 20:11:16 <frosch123> yes, delete the reverse vehicle feature 20:11:35 <andythenorth> you mean the Livery API? 20:11:38 * _dp_ actually worked on search engine that was somewhat better than google 20:11:47 <_dp_> hi everyone btw xD 20:11:59 <andythenorth> hi 20:12:06 <frosch123> how do you measure betterness? 20:13:41 <_dp_> it did much better language processing 20:14:00 <_dp_> even nowadays google barely does any afaict 20:14:15 <TrueBrain> it is not difficult I think to do it better on some places 20:14:21 <TrueBrain> pretty sure it is difficult to do it better on all :D 20:14:38 <TrueBrain> but yeah, I am waiting for someone to write a better google 20:14:41 <TrueBrain> it is about time it happens 20:14:53 <andythenorth> Bing! 20:14:59 <TrueBrain> well, clearly not :) 20:15:05 <TrueBrain> so _dp_ , did you make it into a SaaS? :D 20:15:20 <andythenorth> what's the other one, the language processing one 20:15:22 * andythenorth forgot 20:16:12 <frosch123> deepl? 20:17:05 <frosch123> it shares a lot of letters with dp, he contributes 40% of them 20:18:13 <andythenorth> wolfram 20:18:17 <andythenorth> I haven't tried it 20:18:40 <frosch123> it's mostly mathematica aas, isn't it? 20:19:34 <andythenorth> dunno 20:19:41 <andythenorth> it was all hype some years ago 20:19:50 <andythenorth> it seems very niche 20:20:36 <frosch123> so was watson 20:21:48 <milek7> eh, b2 is really slow 20:21:55 <milek7> it is really necessary to download from it in parallel 20:22:17 <frosch123> is it using smb? :p 20:24:31 <andythenorth> how about an Action D or something in which grf declares transform to apply to reversed sprites? 20:24:40 <andythenorth> because more complexity is obviously the solution? 20:25:14 <frosch123> i had a multi-vehicle-sprite draft spec that centered sprites in all orientations 20:25:56 <andythenorth> that would be too sensible 20:25:57 <frosch123> mostly meant for long wagons, it also works for a single vehicle 20:26:14 <frosch123> i still did not figure out gist 20:26:28 <frosch123> i think a normal repo is easier to use 20:30:24 <andythenorth> hmm, can we adjust the palette? 20:30:32 <andythenorth> I need a set of 'shiny' colours 20:30:35 <andythenorth> for aluminium cargo 20:30:47 <frosch123> you need ottd 1.2 for that 20:30:50 <milek7> or maybe not, and it's just my server clogged up 20:30:50 <andythenorth> we need RGBAR 20:31:20 <frosch123> what's that second R? 20:31:28 <frosch123> we have RGBAM though 20:32:18 <andythenorth> Radiosity 20:32:36 <andythenorth> it requires your device to have a camera or colour sensor 20:32:55 <andythenorth> then shiny pixels can reflect your face back at you 20:33:34 <andythenorth> I guess the reflections should be of the game world though? 20:33:42 <andythenorth> the sun and clouds and stuff? 20:33:51 * andythenorth considers animating fake sky into aluminium ingots 20:34:02 <frosch123> ah factorio just got that with the release two days ago 20:34:16 <andythenorth> always showing us where we should go next :) 20:34:28 <andythenorth> we shipped conveyors already? 20:35:21 <frosch123> https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/img/blog/fff-363-night-lighting-after.png <- they have glowing cargos now 20:35:36 <frosch123> aw, they even have a "cdn." domain 20:36:16 <andythenorth> wow 20:36:20 * andythenorth likes it 20:36:40 <FLHerne> andythenorth: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hKdqwFOfqPDgon-USFzZYsKWMgbHpAyJiFnjYQ7gVdA/edit 20:36:42 <andythenorth> I mostly don't like factorio style, only V's stuff 20:36:50 <andythenorth> but that lit style is great 20:38:01 <andythenorth> FLHerne is that new? I feel like I've read it before :) 20:38:50 <andythenorth> it's well written 20:39:44 <FLHerne> I don't think I've seen it before 20:41:31 <frosch123> my old company bought another company with that problem 20:41:51 <frosch123> the devs were constantly talking: we rewrote everything to modern in 3 years 20:42:02 <frosch123> and the support people constantly said: nothing works 20:42:25 <frosch123> then the money was gone, and they were bought 21:17:11 * andythenorth had an idea 21:17:29 <andythenorth> some cargos have more than one sprite they could use 21:17:36 <andythenorth> what if we could let the player choose the type? 21:18:06 <frosch123> sounds cool, let's call them cargo subtypes 21:18:19 <andythenorth> no that conflates with the livery API 21:18:31 <andythenorth> Vehicle Sprite Choices? 21:19:02 <andythenorth> nah, it needs good bacronym 21:19:23 <frosch123> can we add a settings for individual pixels? maximum customizable 21:19:29 <andythenorth> I already have those 21:19:40 <andythenorth> you have to use external plug-ins though 21:20:17 <andythenorth> the Photoshop add-on to OpenTTD is surprisingly popular 21:20:22 <andythenorth> people are using it for other things 21:27:30 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That's obviously the use-case for cargo subtypes 21:27:37 <FLHerne> Liveries using it is kind of a hack :p 21:36:03 <orudge> Just compiled OpenTTD in what must have been less than a minute on the M1. This thing does appear to be fast! 21:36:26 <andythenorth> orudge :o 21:36:29 <andythenorth> but does it blend? 21:37:02 <michi_cc> Only once :) 21:38:22 * andythenorth wonders if all OpenTTD mac performance issues are resolved 21:38:53 <frosch123> compiling and graphics are probably very different metrics 21:39:21 <frosch123> orudge: what does the fps window say? 21:42:00 <andythenorth> i9 mac compiles OpenTTD in about 1m15s 21:42:08 <andythenorth> using 17 threads 21:42:22 <andythenorth> pegs the CPU to mx 21:44:50 <frosch123> why is it that slow? 21:45:04 <frosch123> my 10 year old i5 with 4 cores takes 1m49s 21:45:29 <andythenorth> mac intel laptops under-perform horribly 21:45:34 <andythenorth> they're really poor 21:45:49 <frosch123> in theory you should be 8 times faster than me 21:46:05 <frosch123> 4 times the threads, twice the clock 21:46:38 <dwfreed> not everything can be parallelized, and clock speed itself is a terrible metric anymore 21:46:44 <andythenorth> 4 times the sticker price 21:46:49 <frosch123> give it some seconds for the linking, so 15s should be the goal? 21:46:49 <andythenorth> 4 times the marketing hype 21:47:00 <andythenorth> 4 times the thermal throttling 21:47:11 <andythenorth> 4 times the buying cheap under-specced intel parts 21:47:14 <dwfreed> macs have terrible cooling 21:47:20 <andythenorth> yup 21:47:27 <dwfreed> intel procs have terrible thermals 21:47:35 <andythenorth> the small macs do fine for what they are 21:47:57 <andythenorth> but I bought the big one, which has a horrible CPU stuffed into a tiny enclosure 21:48:59 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:50:27 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 21:54:55 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 21:54:55 <andythenorth> to be fair, it is overall the best computer I have ever owned 21:55:01 <andythenorth> but not for performance reasons :P 21:56:09 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:59:04 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:59:13 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:03:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:05:23 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 22:15:44 <orudge> 44 seconds to build. Haven't checked fps yet but will give it a 22:15:51 <orudge> shot tomorrow I expect 22:19:07 *** arikover has quit IRC 22:23:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:24:32 <LordAro> 44 seconds to build is fast 22:35:30 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:40:35 <LordAro> curious, my msys build has decided to pick up xaudio 22:40:47 <LordAro> but then fails due to missing XAUDIO2_DLL_A 22:40:59 <LordAro> glx: don't suppose you've seen this before? 22:41:49 <LordAro> oh hang on, msys terminal, not mingw terminal 22:41:53 <LordAro> weird. 22:41:55 <glx> it's not supposed to find xaudio IIRC 22:42:10 <LordAro> there's an xaudio2.h file, it's just... different to what's expected 22:42:47 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:43:36 <LordAro> /mingw64/x86_64-w64-mingw32/include/xaudio2.h 22:47:10 <LordAro> nope, mingw still picking this thing up 22:47:29 <LordAro> i'll amend the test script to make sure XAUDIO2_DLL_A exists 22:47:46 <LordAro> dunno why i've not seen this before, i've not updated in ages 22:49:38 <glx> indeed xaudio detection fails in my msys2/mingw 22:49:52 <glx> -- Performing Test XAUDIO2_FOUND -- Performing Test XAUDIO2_FOUND - Failed 22:50:05 <LordAro> wonder how i've managed to acquire that file 22:50:09 <LordAro> must have installed something... 22:52:02 <LordAro> /mingw64/x86_64-w64-mingw32/include/xaudio2.h is owned by mingw-w64-x86_64-headers-git 8.0.0.6001.98dad1fe-1 22:52:09 <LordAro> that's a fairly basic package... 22:57:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:03:44 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 23:12:57 *** matt21347 has quit IRC 23:39:36 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro opened pull request #8345: MSYS XAudio build fix https://git.io/JkSqF 23:56:52 *** Progman has quit IRC