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00:03:04 *** tokai has quit IRC 00:04:38 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 00:15:54 *** tokai has joined #openttd 00:15:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 00:18:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:26:24 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 00:26:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 00:31:38 *** tokai has quit IRC 00:31:45 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 00:36:06 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:56:51 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 02:07:09 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:19:19 *** glx has quit IRC 03:58:31 *** debdog has joined #openttd 04:01:53 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 04:15:29 *** Laedek has quit IRC 04:17:25 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 05:52:55 *** tokai has joined #openttd 05:52:55 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 05:59:46 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 06:00:56 *** m1cr0man has quit IRC 06:04:33 *** m1cr0man has joined #openttd 06:45:19 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:01:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:22:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:24:18 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:37:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:21:10 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:05:32 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:05:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:35:47 <andythenorth> yo 11:58:02 <andythenorth> hmm 11:58:07 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 11:58:11 <andythenorth> who wanted narrow gauge iron wagons? 11:58:23 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 12:13:34 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 12:13:46 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 12:37:47 *** juzza1 has joined #openttd 12:52:44 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 13:47:37 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:56:39 *** virtualrandomnumber has joined #openttd 14:46:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 14:48:19 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:05:05 *** virtualrandomnumber has quit IRC 15:07:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:13:39 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:42:58 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:56:18 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:56:18 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:05:19 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 16:28:26 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:33:16 <andythenorth> GIF! https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=215203 16:40:39 <Timberwolf> Cool! 16:40:48 <Timberwolf> Well. Not cool, technically. Molten! 16:43:29 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 16:48:20 <andythenorth> :) 16:49:04 <andythenorth> so also have I done enough UK Horse engines Timberwolf? o_O 16:49:11 <andythenorth> might stop adding them soon 16:56:43 <Timberwolf> I can't think of anything missing other than a 2020s re-envisioning of the Cycloped. 16:58:25 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] LordAro merged pull request #4: Add: ansible playbook for configuring new caching content servers https://git.io/JkCEU 16:58:27 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] LordAro pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JIeFF 16:58:27 <DorpsGek_III> - Add: Basic ansible playbook for configuring new caching content servers (by LordAro) 16:58:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] LordAro commented on issue #2: Migrate mediawiki to a wiki running on AWS https://git.io/JUj7L 16:58:50 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/aws-infra] LordAro closed issue #2: Migrate mediawiki to a wiki running on AWS https://git.io/JUj7L 16:59:54 <andythenorth> I tried adding a class 65 (proposed high power 60), but I can't make it look good, class 60 is just a box, and I have 3 variants already 17:00:22 <andythenorth> I could use the proposed version with inverted French cab windows, but it's hard to draw :P 17:05:43 <Timberwolf> The Class 60 has a very :-| "face". 17:19:09 *** otetede has joined #openttd 17:20:49 <andythenorth> I did it once for this, but trying to make it different-but-the-same for another engine failed https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.15.0/html/vanguard.html 17:21:12 <andythenorth> given I already did the 92 https://grf.farm/iron-horse/2.15.0/html/flanders_storm.html 17:22:18 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/team] Yoyo45-ux opened issue #95: [sl_SI] Translator access request https://git.io/JIexN 17:37:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not convinced i'm doing this right :) https://www.twitch.tv/eddijk 17:44:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:44:50 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 17:44:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 17:46:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:51:41 *** tokai has quit IRC 17:57:02 *** TooTallTyler has joined #openttd 18:03:00 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 18:12:40 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:20:23 <supermop_Home_> fancy factory Eddi|zuHause 18:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i copied that layout from another person, who couldn't get it to work 18:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> he caught a serious case of https://xkcd.com/844/ 18:41:34 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 19:00:00 <andythenorth> Timberwolf considered motorail? o_O http://www.malcolm-smith.com/railways/working/rail/north/motorail/06-r-08.html 19:00:17 <andythenorth> vehicle wagons carrying pax? 19:07:08 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Well, the vehicle wagons don't carry pax 19:07:12 *** Tirili has quit IRC 19:09:08 <andythenorth> I know, that is the question 19:09:26 <andythenorth> is it worth deviating from RL to have that in the game? 19:10:53 <TrueBrain> there can be pax in the cars on the wagons 19:10:58 <TrueBrain> "elite" transport 19:11:00 <TrueBrain> pay extra 19:12:20 <TooTallTyler> What about decreasing the cargo decay rate of passenger carriages if there are motorail wagons attached to the train? I think the cargo_age_period callback could be used for this. 19:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there's trains that carry cars (or trucks) and passengers 19:12:41 <andythenorth> TooTallTyler hi :) 19:12:55 <andythenorth> cargo_age_period is pretty much useless 19:13:15 <andythenorth> one story goes that it was only added as a hack to support very large maps, which are otherwise broken with the payment algorithm 19:13:19 <andythenorth> as a newgrf feature, it's junk 19:13:42 <andythenorth> I spent a long time testing it one weekend 19:14:05 <TooTallTyler> I've been using the luxury carriages in Iron Horse but have never really paid attention to differences in payments vs. regular carriages 19:15:54 <andythenorth> one of the less interesting games I've played :P https://grf.farm/images/cargo_age_period_test_map.png 19:17:32 <TooTallTyler> Is the difference insignificant or is something else broken? 19:17:45 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 19:19:07 <andythenorth> most of us seem to approach decay rate as something that could boost payment for certain classes of vehicle 19:19:21 <andythenorth> but actually it can only ever slow the penalty 19:19:45 <andythenorth> and the penalty is quite negligible on sensibly sized maps 19:20:31 <andythenorth> one option is to increase the penalty on most vehicles, and then 'boost' a limited subset back to normal 19:20:35 <TrueBrain> why is the test map on her period? Odd experiments .. 19:21:39 <andythenorth> but messing with payment rate for most vehicles is punitive 19:21:48 <andythenorth> makes those vehicles hard to use, so why bother 19:23:08 <TooTallTyler> And you get side effects with users playing with multiple vehicle grfs, plus base cargo decay rates are defined in industry grfs...yeesh 19:23:35 <andythenorth> yes 19:23:48 <andythenorth> one thing 'special' vehicles could do is boost station ratings 19:23:53 <andythenorth> which would actually be useful 19:23:59 <andythenorth> more so than payment 19:24:14 <andythenorth> but the rating cb is per cargo, and cargo grfs don't know about vehicle grfs https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callback:_Custom_station_rating_calculation 19:24:21 <TooTallTyler> That was my next thought. Money becomes meaningless so quickly. 19:25:10 <andythenorth> also, when someone says 'GameScript' we have all won bingo and can go home 19:25:27 <andythenorth> it's always proposed as the solution to newgrf problems at some point 19:25:56 <TrueBrain> well, you just did, so FREEEEDOOOMMMM /me runs home naked 19:26:58 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:27:37 <frosch123> TrueBrain: do you need solacement for the pending death of DorpsGek? 19:28:02 <TrueBrain> I cannot bring myself to do it :( 19:28:05 <TrueBrain> it feels so bad .... 19:28:16 <DorpsGek> i'm not dead yet! 19:28:48 <frosch123> i am not sure. is that a scene from life of brian? 19:29:07 <TrueBrain> haven't seen that movie in ages ... good xmas movie! 19:29:21 <frosch123> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBxMPqxJGqI 19:29:45 <Eddi|zuHause> is xmas cancelled yet for this year? 19:30:49 <frosch123> move it to summer, better weather 19:31:31 <andythenorth> hmm really quite addictive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmzx70vRWS0 19:31:58 <frosch123> do you want to be young again? 19:32:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I guess you should be lucky there is no-one from Australia awake! :P 19:32:08 <frosch123> or are you worrying about what your kids may be doing? 19:32:25 <TrueBrain> these are his kids :P 19:32:42 <TrueBrain> they moved to Spain and everything trolls 19:34:21 <andythenorth> look how sunny it is in spain right now 19:34:25 * andythenorth looks out window at darkness 19:34:46 <TrueBrain> it is dark in Spain right now :P 19:34:51 *** Progman has quit IRC 19:35:02 <andythenorth> wat no 19:35:03 <andythenorth> lies 19:35:08 <andythenorth> look in the video feed 19:35:11 <andythenorth> bright sunshine 19:35:34 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:35:43 <TooTallTyler> It's only 2:35pm where I am but it's dark and raining 19:36:23 <TooTallTyler> Not much better 19:36:25 <TrueBrain> pm .... guess the nationality purely on the way time is described :P 19:36:39 <TrueBrain> <3 19:36:41 <TooTallTyler> We have stupid units here :P 19:36:48 <TrueBrain> many 19:36:55 <TrueBrain> but am/pm for sure is one of the worst 19:37:08 <TrueBrain> it simply makes no sense .... 11am, 12pm, 1pm ... who .... in his right mind .... I mean ... WTF?! 19:39:39 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: downside, complexity and making it work gameplay-wise. Upside, I could draw some Allegros. Compelling case for doing it! 19:41:03 <TooTallTyler> and I'd probably recognize a car on a flatcar faster than your stationary steam engine (which is very nice once I looked closely) ;) 19:43:16 <DorpsGek_III> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TinCanTech opened issue #8349: Minor inconsistency in Depot List Window behaviour https://git.io/JIvZj 19:44:53 <andythenorth> Timberwolf I'll do it if you will :P 19:45:04 <andythenorth> like when me and pikka agreed everything is station refittable :P 19:45:32 <andythenorth> we just pretend people stay in the cars, eurotunnel style 19:45:58 <TooTallTyler> I support this 19:48:39 <andythenorth> TooTallTyler but when I do the US Horse, the FEMA-train nuts will appear 19:48:44 <andythenorth> if I make autoracks transport pax 19:49:42 <TooTallTyler> I can see the reddit posts already 19:50:35 <andythenorth> https://imgur.com/J5DBU52 19:50:38 <TooTallTyler> I think the original video for that was a parody that people took seriously 19:50:56 <TooTallTyler> oh no, I haven't seen that 19:51:34 <andythenorth> hmm do I really want to go down this rabbithole again? 19:52:51 <TooTallTyler> I've never truly been down that rabbithole until now. I regret this. 19:53:54 <TooTallTyler> Let's just forget about Auto Train for now 19:54:03 <TooTallTyler> I guess they could carry mail instead 19:55:04 <andythenorth> new cargo, cars :P 19:55:10 <TooTallTyler> The original Auto Train was pretty cool though: http://www.themetrains.com/auto-train-main.htm 19:55:15 <andythenorth> we don't have nearly enough town<->town cargos 19:55:19 <andythenorth> many more needed 19:56:22 <andythenorth> printer cartridges 19:56:25 <andythenorth> coffee capsules 19:56:37 <andythenorth> secondhand wedding dresses 19:56:45 <TooTallTyler> Murican FIRS can have auto terminals which work like scrap yards, based on population 19:56:57 <TooTallTyler> printer cartridges are VALU 19:58:42 <andythenorth> I am quite seriously going to try using vehicle deliveries to boost scrap production 19:59:45 <TooTallTyler> I don't know how I feel about specific cargos to towns though. Goods is generic enough to use with cargodist, if one wants to set up a consumer goods network rather than dumping the entire map's production into whatever town gets a goods station first. Refit to available cargo doesn't play nicely with cargodist, apparently 20:00:07 <andythenorth> it does and it doesn't 20:02:49 <TooTallTyler> re: scrap cars, when I added waste to Improved Town Layouts, I tried to have houses only generate waste if the town had received goods in the past month. Unfortunately houses can't access their parent town's permanent storage so I couldn't keep track of this 20:03:46 <TooTallTyler> can industries access that register? If cars are delivered to the dealership, surely residents will be getting rid of their old junkers? 20:13:29 <andythenorth> industries can access town registers 20:13:36 <andythenorth> I didn't know houses couldn't :) 20:15:10 <frosch123> houses can't? they should 20:15:15 <andythenorth> after FIRS 4 is done, I'm going to experiment with a 'town boost' concept 20:15:32 <andythenorth> where delivering to towns can have gameplay effects, via town register 20:16:24 <TooTallTyler> Houses should, but cannot: https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/28 20:16:56 <frosch123> that does not look related 20:17:08 * andythenorth looks in nfo spc 20:18:16 <andythenorth> var 7C? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Storages 20:18:20 <andythenorth> t oread 20:18:25 <andythenorth> to read * 20:18:31 <frosch123> it's exactly the same as for industries :) 20:19:07 <andythenorth> oh but sandboxed by grfid? 20:19:12 <andythenorth> so we can't all write over each other? 20:19:23 <frosch123> yes, write is per grfid 20:19:31 * andythenorth is happy again 20:19:51 <andythenorth> I assumed co-operating over locations would be necssary 20:19:58 <andythenorth> better this way 20:20:06 <TooTallTyler> That makes sense 20:20:15 <andythenorth> town effects are under explored 20:20:33 <andythenorth> also TooTallTyler, do you play only Temperate? o_O 20:21:00 * andythenorth would like ITL for the other climates :) 20:21:07 <andythenorth> well...not Toyland 20:21:38 <TooTallTyler> Mostly, yes. The climate restriction is because the other climates have very few sprites compared to Temperate 20:22:09 <TooTallTyler> but I'm working on a new town set with custom graphics which will work in all climates (but look odd in desert and toyland) 20:22:37 *** Hobbyboy|BNC is now known as Hobbyboy 20:23:01 * andythenorth joins the newsletter 20:23:19 <andythenorth> ITL is very good 20:23:31 <TooTallTyler> I'm using Timberwolf's rendering workflow so houses will have all four rotations to face the road: https://github.com/2TallTyler/yankee_houses/blob/master/src/gfx/r1_fulton_8bpp.png 20:23:38 <TooTallTyler> Thanks :) 20:24:07 <andythenorth> voxels? o_O 20:24:16 <TooTallTyler> Indeed 20:24:49 <TooTallTyler> at 1x they're not quite as pretty as hand-drawn, but they're so much faster for me 20:27:09 <TooTallTyler> Going back to town registers, how would I specify my GRFID when reading or writing? I don't think it's automatic, since I got NMLC errors when I tried 20:28:30 <andythenorth> you stuff it into a register 20:28:32 <andythenorth> usually 20:28:51 * andythenorth looks 20:29:49 <andythenorth> maybe not 20:29:52 <andythenorth> maybe it's just a var 20:30:02 <andythenorth> my old code seems to use 0x25 20:30:53 <andythenorth> hmm 20:31:50 <andythenorth> you either know your grfid and hard-code, or you can pick it out with a var and put it in the temp register 20:32:00 <andythenorth> "The GRFID to access must be stored in temporary register 0x100 before checking variable 7C. 0xFFFFFFFF can be used to access the GRFID of the item using the current VariationalAction2 chain." 20:34:18 <andythenorth> I have train examples, but they are all wrong for houses, so might be misleading 20:35:02 <TooTallTyler> I wouldn't mind seeing them anyway, just to see the syntax 20:35:25 <andythenorth> I am reading nml source to see if it supports var 7C 20:35:27 <andythenorth> can't see it 20:36:34 <frosch123> its the regular STORE_PERM/LOAD_PERM 20:37:31 <andythenorth> ha found it in nml thanks :) 20:38:16 <TooTallTyler> Aha, I found mention in the NML specs too: https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Switch 20:39:13 <andythenorth> what's not clear is whether grfid needs to be put into register 0x100 with NML 20:39:16 * andythenorth looks 20:39:41 <andythenorth> auto-magic 20:40:06 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/blob/master/nml/actions/action2var.py#L453 20:40:48 <TooTallTyler> I was hoping that was the source of my error :( 20:41:17 <TooTallTyler> Unfortunately I never committed the code so I can't go back and test, but I'll try again sometime and see what happens 20:41:20 <andythenorth> feature is 0x08? 20:41:35 <andythenorth> 0x08 is global settings no? 20:41:46 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0 20:42:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: i do not know whether that nml bug was fixed 20:42:55 <frosch123> nml#26 and nml#28 is a mess 20:42:57 <andythenorth> I _think_ L456 supports giving an alternative grfid also, but I'm not sure how that would be set 20:43:15 <andythenorth> is it an additional undocumented parameter on the LOAD_TEMP() 20:44:01 <andythenorth> also why is the grfid being given for a store anyway? 20:44:07 <andythenorth> spec says store is self-only? 20:44:59 <andythenorth> no I should learn to read code better 20:45:15 * andythenorth sticks to pixels :P 20:49:09 <andythenorth> ok so probably a test grf, ideally in nml examples or tests 20:49:15 * andythenorth won't be doing that right now 20:49:33 <andythenorth> then we can see what actually works, fix what's broken, and update the docs 20:49:40 <andythenorth> it's like NRT all over again oof :| 20:52:25 <TooTallTyler> I wish I could help somehow but I'll cheer on any efforts while I continue learning the basics 20:52:59 <andythenorth> I won't touch it now, I have a to-do list as long as both arms 20:53:18 <TooTallTyler> Naturally 20:53:25 <andythenorth> but when it's time for FIRS 9, Now Featuring Town Boost 20:53:27 <andythenorth> ... 20:54:11 <andythenorth> meanwhile it seems Iron Horse has no concept of 'too many wagons' 20:54:38 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:55:29 <TooTallTyler> I wonder if some might be alternate sprites for different cargo refits, rather than all appearing in the buy menu 20:55:56 <TooTallTyler> the fruit wagon comes to mind here 20:57:36 <andythenorth> the fruit wagon also struck me as disposable 20:57:46 <andythenorth> partly because it's ugly 20:59:31 <TooTallTyler> I was thinking more that it has a specific cargo 21:02:11 <TooTallTyler> Same goes for the Vehicle Parts Van / Sliding Wall Van, Stake Wagon / Flat Wagon, Grain / Covered / Pellet hoppers, Silo / Cement wagons, Edibles / Product tanker, maybe Rock/ Ore/ Hopper, and the Mineral / Scrap wagons 21:02:57 <TooTallTyler> I think some of those could be sprites of another which are automatically selected based on the cargo 21:03:20 <TooTallTyler> Unless you're trying to avoid station refits changing sprites? 21:03:29 <andythenorth> I did try cargo-specific sprites 21:03:42 <andythenorth> but it's just annoying when you want to make a train of certain wagons 21:03:52 <andythenorth> the Horse wagons are basically a train set 21:04:32 <TooTallTyler> To be clear, I don't mind separate wagons in the buy menu, just brainstorming ways to simplify if you so chose 21:04:48 <andythenorth> eventually someone will fork it :) 21:05:16 * andythenorth drawing https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrynorskhydro 21:05:22 <TooTallTyler> Prepare for a lot of Python questions when they do :) 21:05:46 <andythenorth> wonder what the FEMA nuts make of an 'ISIS Holdall' https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/ferrynorskhydro/e2eb35418 21:06:37 <TooTallTyler> Is that a sliding wall van? Never seen one outside of Iron Horse 21:06:51 <andythenorth> that's a sliding roof van 21:06:53 <TooTallTyler> All our boxcars over here look about the same 21:06:57 <TooTallTyler> For steel coils? 21:07:08 <andythenorth> steel coils, palettised goods 21:07:10 <andythenorth> paper etc 21:07:52 <andythenorth> US has such a huge system, and so many pooled vehicles 21:08:09 *** otetede has quit IRC 21:08:11 <andythenorth> it seems to have very few specialised types 21:08:22 <andythenorth> unless they just never make it into HO models and foamer websites? 21:09:09 <TooTallTyler> No, that's accurate 21:09:46 <andythenorth> I found a few oddities, but not many 21:10:52 <andythenorth> I've got a couple of HO pressure tank cars and a carbon black hopper 21:10:58 <andythenorth> and the shorty tankers 21:11:41 <TooTallTyler> Skeleton log cars are neat 21:12:36 <andythenorth> there are quite a lot of open hopper types 21:12:43 <andythenorth> and centerflows are not all the same 21:15:02 *** jhq has quit IRC 21:21:34 *** jback has joined #openttd 21:24:00 *** blathijs has quit IRC 21:59:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:02:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:03:58 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 22:09:16 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:15:25 *** TooTallTyler has quit IRC 22:17:02 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:22:56 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:27:03 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:28:27 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 22:35:01 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 22:41:18 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 22:42:56 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:01:05 *** TooTallTyler has joined #openttd 23:04:48 *** Tirili has quit IRC 23:34:01 *** Flygon has joined #openttd