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00:02:51 <milek7_> and now persistent mapping makes practically no difference 00:24:05 *** mirrorbird has quit IRC 00:24:57 *** hotgirl55 has joined #openttd 00:33:07 *** Progman has quit IRC 00:44:53 <hotgirl55> hello? 00:56:40 *** gelignite has quit IRC 01:01:22 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:14:36 *** Tirili has quit IRC 01:30:50 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 01:32:15 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:37:36 <FLHerne> hotgirl55: Hi 01:37:52 <FLHerne> (this channel is usually a bit quiet during EU nighttime) 01:38:37 <FLHerne> supermop_Home: I looked at it a bit more, the probabilities in switch_color_vehs_a are just too complicated for the number of random bits available 01:39:00 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 01:39:12 <FLHerne> If you make them all `1` (i.e. equal probabilities) it works 01:41:19 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:42:06 <FLHerne> As it is, the chances are n/41, so NML needs 6 random bits, and the other one needs 4, while there are only 8 available 01:42:37 <FLHerne> Making it even is a straight 1/16 chance, so it only takes 4 bits and is possible to implement 01:45:47 * FLHerne sleeps 01:59:13 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:42:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8686: Unable to change townnames in Scenario editor after pr8566 https://git.io/JtMyZ 02:54:32 <supermop_Home> FLHerne thanks! 03:23:40 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 03:27:00 *** debdog has quit IRC 03:35:01 *** hotgirl55 has quit IRC 03:35:54 *** muffindrake2 has joined #openttd 03:37:41 *** muffindrake1 has quit IRC 04:46:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/JtQjQ 05:11:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] perezdidac opened pull request #8733: Feature: Build train locomotive filter https://git.io/Jt7eH 06:06:53 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 06:57:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:03:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] EratoNysiad commented on issue #8686: Unable to change townnames in Scenario editor after pr8566 https://git.io/JtMyZ 07:14:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:17:10 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:19:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:23:49 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:43:57 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:53:57 *** hotgirl55 has joined #openttd 07:55:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:38:17 *** hotgirl55_ has joined #openttd 08:38:17 *** hotgirl55 has quit IRC 08:41:51 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 08:51:37 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 08:58:27 *** hotgirl55_ has quit IRC 09:46:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7sg 10:25:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh merged pull request #8720: Remove remaining Windows 95 support https://git.io/Jt9hY 10:34:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt7nA 10:51:21 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 11:16:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:22:11 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 11:22:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 11:27:31 *** Samu has joined #openttd 11:56:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:25:42 *** roadt__ has quit IRC 12:25:59 *** Samu has quit IRC 12:30:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt70C 12:35:16 *** roadt__ has joined #openttd 12:41:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7EZ 12:47:14 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 12:48:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7EA 12:48:37 <TrueBrain> I like these small steps to change the GUIs :) 12:49:25 <TrueBrain> means we can focus on a few small things, instead on EVERYTHING :D 12:53:33 <andythenorth> big UI change usually fails IMHO 12:53:44 <andythenorth> so +1 13:04:58 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8731 <- any clue why 40bpp-anim is not selected? (totally unrelated to the report, but it stood out) 13:05:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7zt 13:07:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8730: Codechange: [OpenGL] Load all OpenGL functions dynamically. https://git.io/Jt7zn 13:09:54 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:14:49 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:15:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/JtQjQ 13:19:05 <TrueBrain> frosch123: assuming you read your backlog, ^^, is that the way to do it with language files? :) 13:19:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7g3 13:19:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7gn 13:21:19 <TrueBrain> what I kinda miss with GitHub, is a place to work on bigger things, like this UI stuff 13:21:25 <TrueBrain> all these changes are iterations of each other 13:21:32 <_dp_> ui scaling makes these graphs noticeable worse :( 13:21:35 <TrueBrain> now the conversation continues in an PR, which is nice 13:21:40 <TrueBrain> but not the place .. but we don't have another place 13:21:54 <TrueBrain> creating a branch or fork alone is not enough 13:21:59 <TrueBrain> as it is just a continues conversation, basically 13:22:07 <TrueBrain> not sure if there is a solution .. just something I have noticed more often lately 13:22:35 <TrueBrain> guess it is mostly because I am a huge fan of small iterations :D 13:22:52 <TrueBrain> _dp_: I can imagine that breaking these graphs, yes :P 13:23:51 <TrueBrain> hmm, I guess if you could push new commits to an existing PR that you can merge again too, or something .. but I guess that would be rather messy .. hmm 13:23:55 <_dp_> btw, I'm fine with that pr even the way it is 13:24:03 <_dp_> it's definitely an improvement either way 13:24:13 <TrueBrain> yeah, I got that. Yours is a nice addition on top of that 13:24:23 <TrueBrain> I am just a bit annoyed GitHub doesn't really allow that workflow :) 13:24:41 <TrueBrain> I want to merge the current work, while you continue the conversation to further improve it, basically 13:25:51 <_dp_> yeah, that's fine 13:26:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7gS 13:26:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7gH 13:26:22 <TrueBrain> _dp_: well, I am just annoyed GitHub basically tells us: fuck you, that won't happen :P 13:27:01 <TrueBrain> I just noticed the dots in that graph are VERY oddly placed 13:27:10 <TrueBrain> I have no clue if the dot is the start of the quarter 13:27:11 <TrueBrain> the end 13:27:13 <TrueBrain> the average 13:27:15 <TrueBrain> the maxt 13:27:16 <TrueBrain> the min 13:27:28 <TrueBrain> it sits somewhere in the middle of the grid, for no clear reason 13:27:30 <_dp_> btw, I'm starting to think that it would be better to make bg under labels black as well 13:27:40 <_dp_> dot is the whole quarter so it's in the middle 13:28:04 <_dp_> it's a quarterly chart basically, not monthly 13:28:14 <TrueBrain> yeah, but measured at some point 13:28:24 <TrueBrain> now it feels like it is measured half-way through the quarter 13:28:27 <TrueBrain> if you get what I mean :) 13:28:31 <TrueBrain> highcharts does this better :P 13:28:45 <_dp_> well, highcharts one is monthly 13:29:02 <LordAro> michi_cc: https://pasteboard.co/JPGOjq6.png i hate that i love this 13:29:02 <TrueBrain> well, honestly, it shouldn't be a point 13:29:30 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what are we looking at here? :D 13:29:41 *** _2TallTyler has joined #openttd 13:29:43 <LordAro> michi_cc's upscale branch 13:29:47 <_dp_> TrueBrain, you'd have to rename it to C1-C4 or smth to do like highcharts 13:29:49 <LordAro> (with a couple of tweaks to make it compile) 13:30:30 <_dp_> it's quarterly income/profit, it's not rly measured at any point 13:30:38 <TrueBrain> LordAro: now the question, is it an improvement without :) 13:30:51 <TrueBrain> _dp_: exactly why the dots are the problem for me :D 13:30:53 <peter1138> urgh 1) lime pickle, hot burning lips 2) doing an interactive rebase and finding some obsolete code hidden in it 13:30:57 <TrueBrain> it is not their location, but the fact it is a dot :P 13:31:07 <LordAro> i think it might be fun to have as an option, but definitely not default 13:31:29 <TrueBrain> LordAro: well, I do like how it looks :) 13:31:57 <peter1138> LordAro, I did upscaling like that once, this looks a bit tidier though. 13:32:03 <_dp_> TrueBrain, idk, imo having a dot makes no difference 13:32:35 <TrueBrain> _dp_: the problem is with you centering the label, it becomes more fuzzy to me :) 13:32:42 <peter1138> https://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/ez9.png Still ther 13:32:48 <TrueBrain> but as I said .. it just highlights that the dot is the weird thing 13:33:02 <LordAro> peter1138: noice 13:33:03 <TrueBrain> peter1138: looks cartoonish :) 13:33:14 <TrueBrain> or aqua-paint 13:33:16 <LordAro> cell-shaded OTTD when? 13:34:11 <peter1138> Hmm, that was from November. 20. 11. 13:34:25 <TrueBrain> _dp_: some more looking at it .. I even wonder why it only makes a dot every 3 months, and why not just every month :P 13:34:40 <peter1138> It's good job nobody got paid for working on OpenTTD because, uh, nobody would get paid... 13:35:01 <_dp_> TrueBrain, more noise 13:35:06 <_dp_> unless you want moving average 13:35:32 <TrueBrain> the more I look at it, the more I release why I never open these graphs 13:35:37 <_dp_> well, not avg I guess but overlapping periods 13:35:41 <TrueBrain> they are just freakinglish weird 13:36:13 <_dp_> or actually avg because quartely income makes even less sense when displayed monthly xD 13:36:26 <TrueBrain> just monthly income 13:36:33 <TrueBrain> instead of quarterly is what I meant, ofc ;) 13:36:36 <FLHerne> peter1138: You're back! 13:36:38 <_dp_> monthly is just too much noise to be useful 13:36:47 <TrueBrain> I don't see how it would be more or less noise than quarterly 13:36:49 <FLHerne> peter1138: I apologise for being inconsiderate and bloody annoying :-( 13:37:25 <_dp_> TrueBrain, monthly jumps average a bit over the quarter, no ? 13:37:44 <TrueBrain> sorry, I don't understand what you wrote there :( 13:38:34 <_2TallTyler> An OpenTTD month is so short I imagine it would be quite jumpy, yes. It's already all over the place quarterly if you have long-distance train routes or ships. 13:38:47 <TrueBrain> that is a valid point 13:38:53 <_2TallTyler> I suspect there's a reason it's quarterly 13:39:06 <TrueBrain> be careful with suspicions there :P 13:39:07 <TrueBrain> :D 13:39:41 <TrueBrain> but okay, I should just stop looking at that graph, and it annoys me more every minute :D 13:39:54 <TrueBrain> https://www.bea.gov/system/files/gdp1q20_3rd-chart-01.png 13:39:58 <TrueBrain> such graphs are more what I would expect 13:40:59 <TrueBrain> or, if you want more information density: https://i.insider.com/54457adc6bb3f7c33ca2a6aa 13:41:05 <_2TallTyler> Bar graphs would definitely be a separate PR :P 13:41:11 <TrueBrain> owh, for sure 13:41:18 <TrueBrain> we already agreed your current work is just fine :) 13:41:23 <TrueBrain> the next addition, now that is the question :D 13:41:39 <_2TallTyler> Isn't part of the point of these graphs to compare your company's performance with that of other players? Bar graphs wouldn't work with that. 13:41:42 <_dp_> bar charts would be an interesting change indeed 13:41:53 <_dp_> not so much for the percent increase though imo :p 13:42:01 <TrueBrain> no, not the percentage :) 13:42:07 <TrueBrain> _2TallTyler: I guess .. 13:42:24 <TrueBrain> it is just weird, to have a box of "3 months" and put a single dot somewhere in there to indicate: that month 13:42:54 <TrueBrain> that, in my head, only works if you call it Q1 .. Q4 13:43:10 <TrueBrain> but I agree with your reasoning there, people have different opinions throughout the world what Q1 .. Q4 means :D 13:43:19 <_2TallTyler> I mean, comparing company performance is mostly useless beyond bragging rights, but when I play with my younger brothers (teenagers) they love to rag on me whenever they manage to get a quarter higher than mine. 13:43:19 <TrueBrain> s/that month/that quarter/ 13:44:04 <_dp_> not that line chart works perfectly for comparing either... 13:44:10 * _dp_ had some "let's disable dP transport so we can see other companies" moments 13:44:26 <TrueBrain> haha, non-linear scales coming when? :D 13:45:30 <_dp_> idk, I kinda gave up on improving ingame charts too much :p 13:45:34 <TrueBrain> anyway, centered years, absolutely an improvement for me :) 13:45:35 <_dp_> just make them look ok and move on 13:45:49 <TrueBrain> "acceptance", yes :) 13:46:00 <TrueBrain> browser plugin and run highcharts, you say? :D 13:46:38 <_dp_> yep :p 13:46:39 <_dp_> http://dpointer.org/data/ttd/stats27/ 13:47:32 <_2TallTyler> _dp_ How did you get centered years? Just put the year in the July string instead of Jan? 13:48:00 <_dp_> _2TallTyler, yep, but it would be better to draw year separately 13:48:09 <_dp_> to fix clipping bug 13:51:24 <_dp_> there is a diff in my comment btw 13:51:27 <_2TallTyler> What settings did you use to get clipping? I can't reproduce it. 13:52:06 <_dp_> well, I just changed my ui size to double from quad but I have it all custom 13:52:11 <_dp_> try making window smaller 13:52:49 *** gelignite has quit IRC 13:53:27 <_dp_> oh, and mb up the font scaling 13:53:29 <_dp_> https://i.imgur.com/ct2UKLH.png 13:53:44 <_dp_> may or may not only happen with custom fonts as well 13:54:16 <_dp_> basically, your year has to be wider than a column 13:54:21 <_2TallTyler> Looks like an issue of text wrapping, not with reserving enough vertical space 13:54:50 <_dp_> it wraps because it's to narrow 13:55:09 <_dp_> and it's too narrow because for months it's correct or they'll overlap 13:55:14 <_dp_> but year has space 13:56:54 <_2TallTyler> It's not possible with default font. The window can't be made narrow enough. 13:58:32 <_dp_> yeah, looking at it mb it's just my changes that did it 13:58:40 <_dp_> I forgot to change UpdateWidgetSize 13:58:58 <_dp_> I'll test more 13:59:24 <_dp_> though rendering year separately makes more sense anyway 14:01:03 <_2TallTyler> Yes, separately drawn year will be necessary with left-aligned months and center-aligned years. Still don't like centered months, sorry :) 14:02:30 <_dp_> _2TallTyler, oh, looks like you forgot UpdateWidgetSize as well :p 14:03:13 <_dp_> so it's actually your bug :p 14:05:53 <_2TallTyler> Holy duplicate code, Batman 14:09:01 <_dp_> that UpdateWidgetSize is kinda weird though in general 14:09:21 <_dp_> it sums up all the label widgth but then draw divides them equally 14:09:38 <_2TallTyler> I actually find the periods slightly disorienting without vertical grid lines, since the dots don't correspond to a month label. I think I will keep vertical grid lines in this PR. 14:09:48 <_dp_> so it may only work ok-ish because of that year reserving some extra space 14:12:14 <_dp_> ah, no, nvm, it doesn't su 14:12:21 <_dp_> *sum 14:30:43 <supermop_Home> yo 14:32:51 *** glx has joined #openttd 14:32:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 14:41:29 <FLHerne> oy 14:43:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt7KS 14:44:54 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:51:04 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:51:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/JtQjQ 14:57:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler updated pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/JtQjQ 14:58:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt7iY 15:01:54 <Wolf01> https://www.thedrive.com/news/39378/how-canadians-derailed-a-train-and-drove-it-to-city-hall-for-power-after-a-brutal-ice-storm wow 15:02:54 <_2TallTyler> "According to accounts from a train forum" is such an unreliable reference :P 15:06:29 *** _2TallTyler has quit IRC 15:07:08 *** Samu has quit IRC 15:07:11 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 15:07:41 <_dp_> _2TallTyler, how is centered year any more problematic than a left one? especially on the left side 15:08:25 <sugarman> every1 i have questn 15:08:36 <sugarman> how 2 put passengr in2 boat? 15:08:38 <sugarman> :D 15:08:44 <sugarman> _dp_: 15:08:59 <_dp_> also I don't think that's important at all, just having full years show is more than enough to navigate the chart imo 15:09:48 <sugarman> plz help do i need put truck lodin bay or bus stop by? 15:09:51 <sugarman> _dp_: 15:10:04 <sugarman> it no working 15:11:05 <sugarman> it says passengr but no can put bus go to bay 15:11:13 <sugarman> dock bay 15:11:13 <sugarman> boat 15:11:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:11:36 <sugarman> argh asdf 15:14:48 <Wolf01> sugarman: try with transfer orders or enable passengers destinations 15:15:08 <sugarman> dose that reqiure vehicle? 15:15:11 <sugarman> or take from town without? 15:15:17 <sugarman> Wolf01: Wolf01 15:16:13 <sugarman> i think i misunderstande 15:16:53 <sugarman> do u must put bus up 2 the dock or must not need? can dock take town people no bus? 15:17:43 <sugarman> argh game is 2 hard!!!!!!! 15:18:39 <_dp_> coop players are sure different nowadays... 15:20:06 <sugarman> plz i am newe gamer i play game not good 15:20:15 <sugarman> D:<<<<<<<<<<<<< 15:20:24 <sugarman> no hate must only love 15:21:42 <peter1138> When you find a performance problem, spend time fixing it, and then refactor something else which makes that all irrelevant... 15:22:00 <FLHerne> sugarman: Your question is hard to understand 15:22:07 <sugarman> FLHerne: sir 15:22:09 <sugarman> when you get 15:22:10 <sugarman> boat dock 15:22:12 <sugarman> yes?? 15:22:19 <sugarman> when u get boat dock, how get people in dock? 15:22:27 <sugarman> u need road with bus? 15:22:30 <FLHerne> sugarman: A dock can receive passengers from a town without any other transfers, if it's near enough houses 15:22:36 <FLHerne> You don't need a road 15:22:43 <sugarman> does road help people get? 15:22:49 <sugarman> or no need no whatsoever 15:22:50 <sugarman> ? 15:23:03 <sugarman> and what if i want person to be 15:23:15 <sugarman> moved from 1 town to another town, den i put them on a boat 15:24:25 <FLHerne> sugarman: https://www.flherne.uk/files/ottd_catchment_dock1.png 15:24:53 <FLHerne> sugarman: Notice that "Coverage area highlight" is "On", so some tiles have a blue outline 15:25:04 <FLHerne> Those are the ones that the dock will collect people from 15:25:49 <sugarman> HOW DO I RESOURCE 15:25:50 <sugarman> then 15:25:59 <sugarman> how put oil in a boat? 15:26:03 <sugarman> if oil in middle of big land 15:26:16 <FLHerne> If enough houses are in the area, it'll show "Supplies: Passengers, ..." 15:26:27 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 15:26:30 <sugarman> wut about oil FLHerne 15:26:36 <sugarman> oil is not passenger 15:26:38 <sugarman> lolololol 15:27:04 <FLHerne> Either build a canal, or use a truck or train and then transfer orders 15:27:07 <FLHerne> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/Feeder%20service#how-to-set-up-a-transfer-route 15:27:31 <FLHerne> Most things in OpenTTD work similarly for any cargo 15:28:08 <sugarman> WOWZERS 15:28:22 <sugarman> THANKS UR SO GOOD AT OPENTTD 15:28:32 <sugarman> FLHerne: wanna play openttd war even though id lose?? 15:29:02 <FLHerne> Not right now, sorry 15:29:23 <sugarman> its okay you cant be good at everything 15:30:14 *** sugarman has quit IRC 15:31:02 <FLHerne> well ok 15:39:16 <LordAro> "LIBLZMA not found; compiling OpenTTD without LIBLZMA is strongly disencouraged" 15:39:20 <LordAro> disencouraged 15:41:49 <FLHerne> We have the best words 15:45:35 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:46:33 <TrueBrain> Disencode :D 15:49:30 <FLHerne> Of course, 'disenfranchise' is the correct word 15:49:42 <FLHerne> And 'disengage' 15:49:47 <FLHerne> English is a silly language 15:50:43 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 15:51:29 <TrueBrain> Yes it is 16:00:06 *** arikover has joined #openttd 16:06:19 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:06:37 <peter1138> Disemcombobulation 16:07:18 <Wolf01> Rise to ruins? ^ 16:10:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt9Ha 16:18:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh updated pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt9Ha 16:34:05 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:02:47 *** Samu has joined #openttd 17:10:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8716: Fix #8713: Change OTTD2FS and FS2OTTD to return string objects https://git.io/Jt77E 17:11:57 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:13:08 <frosch123> if you close 1.5 eyes, then "DBaaS" looks very similar to "BaNaNaS" 17:19:28 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 17:20:30 <supermop_Home> bananasaas 17:20:32 <frosch123> TrueBrain: yes, if you can fix translations with a regex, it's the right thing to do 17:21:36 <TrueBrain> Tnx frosch123 17:26:45 *** sugarman has quit IRC 17:30:56 *** Progman has quit IRC 17:33:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #8730: Codechange: [OpenGL] Load all OpenGL functions dynamically. https://git.io/Jt7Fk 17:35:34 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 17:43:31 *** sugarman has quit IRC 17:43:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #8686: Unable to change townnames in Scenario editor after pr8566 https://git.io/JtMyZ 17:46:44 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] nielsmh commented on pull request #8730: Codechange: [OpenGL] Load all OpenGL functions dynamically. https://git.io/Jt7bZ 17:48:57 *** gelignite has quit IRC 17:50:36 <frosch123> michi_cc: your PR works on my machine :) 17:54:28 *** qwebirc85304 has joined #openttd 17:54:50 *** didac has joined #openttd 17:54:53 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 17:56:45 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:03:01 <milek7_> shouldn't things in video/cocoa/CMakeLists.txt be guarded with if(NOT OPTION_DEDICATED) like the ones in video/CMakeLists? 18:04:21 *** sugarman has quit IRC 18:05:13 <frosch123> now that the CI dockers are defined inside GH actions, you can probably add a CI target for dedicated servers in a container with minimal dependencies 18:05:45 <frosch123> though, probably a waste of cpu time 18:14:53 *** glx is now known as Guest13936 18:14:54 *** glx_ has joined #openttd 18:14:54 *** glx_ is now known as glx 18:14:54 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:16:41 <frosch123> i like how i swapped # and ##, and nielsm then did the same 18:20:43 *** Guest13936 has quit IRC 18:22:15 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 18:22:16 <LordAro> milek7_: i imagine no one's tried to make a dedicated server on macos before 18:23:02 <nielsm> frosch123 I just went by your :D 18:23:05 <nielsm> since I don't remember either 18:23:45 <glx> I guess all the subdirectory can be skipped 18:27:20 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 18:27:58 <LordAro> glx: it still needs the null video driver, right? 18:28:21 <glx> I mean the add_subdirectory(cocoa) 18:28:27 <LordAro> oh, yes 18:28:50 <frosch123> "dedicated" is a separate video driver 18:29:19 <glx> OPTION_DEDICATED is for dedicated only builds 18:29:41 <arikover> Hi! 18:30:43 *** sugarman has quit IRC 18:30:48 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 18:31:05 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 18:31:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:31:29 <frosch123> "null" runs ff-only 18:31:59 <frosch123> pff, 3 minute lag spike 18:33:20 <peter1138> Disemcombobulati//@//on1141414411111141141414 18:33:47 <LordAro> are you ok 18:34:30 <arikover> I am playing with 20210223-master-gcc465efa67, and I just noticed that when restarting a game (command "restart"), the map has everything except industries. Is that intended or is this a bug? 18:35:15 <peter1138> 25010223 18:37:27 <LordAro> arikover: that seems like a bug 18:38:01 <LordAro> arikover: actually, maybe not 18:38:07 <LordAro> what did you start the game from? 18:39:31 <arikover> I started a fresh game. Not from a savegame, if that's what you mean. 18:39:55 <LordAro> as in, new game -> play a bit -> restart command ? 18:40:00 <frosch123> arikover: "restart" uses the current game settings. if you changed "industry density" to "funding only" in game, then it's expected 18:40:47 <LordAro> `help restart` & `help reload` might explain it 18:43:02 <arikover> Oh I guess I know what is happening. I start with low industries, but also use a GS (Think globally act locally), and this might be changing the industry setting at the start of the game. Is that possible? 18:44:23 *** peter1138 has left #openttd 18:59:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/Jt5ea 18:59:55 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:02:25 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 19:08:22 <sugarman> hey sirs can some1 give me download 2 newist build of openttd with gfx tar insid? preferably by mega.nz 19:08:41 <sugarman> openttd.org blocked 4me by org :( 19:09:24 <LordAro> openttd.org is blocked one of the bigger filesharing sites on the internet is not? 19:09:31 <sugarman> yeah 4some reason 19:09:35 <sugarman> cuz is game, openttd 19:09:37 <arikover> frosch123 LordAro: The GS changes the industry density during the game to funding only. So that's it. Thank you for the help! 19:09:42 <sugarman> LordAro: 19:09:46 <LordAro> arikover: nice 19:10:11 <sugarman> if u be so kind sir ill make much gratitudinal LordAro 19:10:29 <LordAro> sugarman: i'm feeling generous, win64? 19:10:34 <sugarman> yesssirrr 19:10:36 <sugarman> thank u uuuuu 19:10:43 <sugarman> with gfx tar plox 19:11:06 <sugarman> im stuck on archive.org version i culd find and it version mismatch :((( 19:11:47 <sugarman> and preferably portable version but is no problm if installer prob LordAro 19:11:49 <sugarman> <3333 19:12:20 <TrueBrain> Don't forget to add the coin miner 19:12:51 <sugarman> lolol 19:12:58 <sugarman> also plox keine RAT :) 19:12:59 <LordAro> sugarman: https://www.lordaro.co.uk/~lordaro/sugarman/ 19:13:10 <sugarman> so cool thank u sir 19:13:17 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on issue #8731: OpenGL font rendering https://git.io/JtQyz 19:13:17 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Re #8731, it's not loading 40bpp-anim because a) it would only be loaded after the video driver is loaded (which is not in the debug output snippet), and because b) it is in fact loading 8bpp-optimized, as that is faster. 19:13:30 <LordAro> i figured you'd probably want the portable version :p 19:13:48 <LordAro> if your internet connection is locked down that much, you probably can't install things easily either ;) 19:14:02 <sugarman> thank u very much sir ur veri kind 19:15:26 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: ah, yes, right :) 19:16:04 <michi_cc> So, force a 32bpp with antialias enabled only for OpenGL or always? 19:16:26 <TrueBrain> Most OSes already defaulted to a 32bpp blitter 19:16:37 <TrueBrain> As I found out during testing 19:16:52 <TrueBrain> So doing for OpenGL makes total sense to me 19:17:01 <LordAro> isn't it all? 19:17:21 <michi_cc> Yeah, I explicitly changed that as, OpenGL not, only pushing a fifth of the data is always faster. 19:17:31 <michi_cc> +or 19:18:17 <TrueBrain> I think we should start looking in deprecating 8bpp blitters in general :) .. more options towards the future with 32bpp :p 19:19:42 <sugarman> can u chat in multi player ? 19:20:08 <nielsm> yes, you just press Enter to open the chat box 19:20:31 <sugarman> nice thanks nielsm ur very cool :) 19:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> is there magic command line option to turn off opengl? 19:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the problem with LTO is that it's essentially like a full recompile even though you changed only 1 compile unit 19:22:30 *** Tirili has quit IRC 19:22:41 <LordAro> sudo apt-get remove nvidia-driver 19:22:57 * Eddi|zuHause slaps LordAro around a bit with a large trout 19:23:02 <LordAro> :D 19:23:04 <FLHerne> Timberwolf: Is this offset expected? https://www.flherne.uk/files/timberwolf_carriage_offset.png 19:23:15 <FLHerne> Some of the corner angles look much more aligned than others 19:24:07 <FLHerne> (this is 'Passenger Carriage' in 1.3.5) 19:24:22 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:25:14 *** supermop_Home has quit IRC 19:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: i see no real difference between commenting and uncommenting the define 19:28:03 <michi_cc> Okay, in that case I think I'll leave the code as is. Better being safe, especially if it isn't doing much. 19:28:04 *** sugarman has quit IRC 19:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i haven't done too much testing... loading a large savegame, zooming out, and scrolling around a bit while paused 19:29:16 <Eddi|zuHause> fps drops from 30 to around 18 in both cases 19:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> in the commented case it seemed rather constant, in the uncommented case a bit more jumpy, but seemed to average out 19:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i'm starting to get annoyed that the game doesn't start on display 0 19:30:53 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 19:32:07 <TrueBrain> have your mouse on display 0 when starting :) 19:32:22 <TrueBrain> and you can start without OpenGL by using "-v sdl" :) 19:32:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened issue #8734: Vehicles not rendered in 2CC when dragged inside a depot https://git.io/Jt5JC 19:33:09 <Wolf01> Hmmm, I think I passed out for a hour or 2 19:33:29 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i know that. but no other game does it like that, and that's the annoying part 19:33:57 <TrueBrain> shrug 19:34:04 <frosch123> you can also pass the display via command line 19:34:14 <andythenorth> Wolf01 you alive? 19:34:20 <Wolf01> Not really 19:34:27 <TrueBrain> Wolf01: should we be worried, call 112, or? 19:34:38 <Wolf01> Nah 19:34:45 <TrueBrain> would be fun "giving your address" :D 19:34:50 <andythenorth> I had a (probably not Covid, probably another mystery virus with all the same symptoms) Jan 2019 19:34:55 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, so in the non-opengl case, fps is more like 12 19:34:59 <andythenorth> then I spent a lot of 2019 randomly falling asleep 19:35:13 <Wolf01> Mononucleosis 19:35:39 <andythenorth> don't only Americans get mono? 19:35:55 <andythenorth> it's a thing in US sitcoms, but I know nobody in Europe who has ever mentioned it 19:36:31 <andythenorth> oh we call it something else 19:36:36 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: that is either local bias, or just not wanting to hear :P 19:36:54 <TrueBrain> but many people get it really young here, which is a good thing 19:37:06 <andythenorth> oh we call it glandular fever 19:37:07 <andythenorth> names 19:37:08 *** sugarman has quit IRC 19:38:03 <TrueBrain> "Ziekte van Pfeiffer" it is called here 19:39:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler opened issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp 19:39:12 <LordAro> mm, 31s fresh compile time 19:39:22 <LordAro> 40 cores is quite nice 19:39:23 <TrueBrain> Debug build, I assume :P 19:39:28 *** _2TallTyler has joined #openttd 19:39:34 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest13947 19:39:36 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 19:39:51 <andythenorth> 40 cores :P 19:39:52 <LordAro> and yes, also debug build 19:39:54 <Wolf01> Woop, windows crashed with netflix 19:39:55 <andythenorth> outrage 19:41:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8732: Change: Improve graph period markings https://git.io/Jt5Uq 19:41:25 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp 19:41:58 <TrueBrain> how does he do that ... 19:42:41 <LordAro> both issues are presumably opengl? 19:42:43 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> don't only Americans get mono? <- I've got mono, but the development SDK, maybe they get the runtime :P 19:42:47 <andythenorth> lol 19:43:00 <TrueBrain> does OpenTTD has something you can click that puts something in your clipboard or something about what OpenTTD you are running, with all the settings etc? 19:43:10 <TrueBrain> so debugging what is being used exactly is easier? 19:43:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: 2:20 for release build :( 19:43:25 <TrueBrain> LordAro: yeah ... I stopped trying Release builds because of that 19:43:26 *** Guest13947 has quit IRC 19:43:27 <TrueBrain> I just gave up 19:43:35 <TrueBrain> happy Debug builds now run at 9999 fps simulation for me 19:44:05 <_2TallTyler> I'm here if I can answer any of those questions for your TrueBrain 19:44:17 <TrueBrain> _2TallTyler: nah, in your case I am pretty sure they are caused by OpenGL :) 19:44:30 <TrueBrain> but I notice often we have to ask basic information of users 19:44:34 <TrueBrain> most which they wouldn't know how to answer 19:44:58 <_2TallTyler> I figured as much. I certainly don't know if I'm running OpenGL...just whatever it launched with automatically 19:45:00 <TrueBrain> the current reports just show how bad of a tester I am :D 19:46:31 <michi_cc> I'd tend for it to be a bug in the 40bpp-anim blitter, not the OpenGL driver, as transparency is handled by the blitter. 19:47:25 <FLHerne> Why is there a 40bpp blitter? 19:47:40 <FLHerne> (macOS does high colour depth natively now?) 19:48:04 <michi_cc> Because letting the GPU do OTTD palette animation/CC overlay is better than letting your CPU do it. 19:48:24 <michi_cc> RGBAM 19:48:25 *** sugarman has joined #openttd 19:48:35 <andythenorth> oof I need to get the build working eh :P 19:49:18 <FLHerne> M? 19:50:29 <FLHerne> I assumed it was RGBA with 10 bits per channel, like Photoshop etc. 19:51:34 <FLHerne> Google says RGBAM is + 'Mint', but only for very niche lighting things 19:53:35 *** _2TallTyler has quit IRC 19:55:35 <michi_cc> M == mask in GRF speak. 19:56:22 <FLHerne> ah 19:59:52 <TrueBrain> LordAro: gave certbot any more attention? 20:00:06 <LordAro> oh sorry, no 20:00:14 <LordAro> completely forgot about it 20:00:17 <TrueBrain> me too 20:00:20 <TrueBrain> letsencrypt reminded me :D 20:00:54 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: as a FYI, the above 2 tickets also happen with the 8bpp-optimized blitter 20:01:04 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:01:19 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:02:39 <michi_cc> That almost rules out OpenGL, as the 8bpp case is really only applying our palette and nothing more. Maybe one of the video driver refactorings broke something with palette animation. 20:02:49 <TrueBrain> the drag&drop is OpenGL only 20:02:54 <TrueBrain> the transparency happens also on win32 20:03:07 <LordAro> bisect time! 20:03:56 <TrueBrain> transparency only happens in 8bpp, so yeah, I will bisect what causes that 20:04:12 <TrueBrain> drag&drop also happens with 40bpp-anim 20:04:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8734: Vehicles not rendered in 2CC when dragged inside a depot https://git.io/Jt5JC 20:05:22 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp 20:05:47 <TrueBrain> right, lets see what broke transparency .. finding a known-good commit first :P 20:06:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc opened pull request #8736: Fix #8731: Always use a 32bpp blitter if font anti-aliasing is enabled. https://git.io/Jt5kG 20:06:35 <sugarman> are signals important 4 makin trainz 20:07:12 <sugarman> or can u ignore em 20:07:52 <sugarman> they seem dumb 20:09:23 <TrueBrain> Bisecting: 41 revisions left to test after this (roughly 5 steps) 20:09:26 <TrueBrain> I love git 20:09:44 <LordAro> sugarman: depends how complicated you want to make things 20:10:07 <sugarman> if i make a big ring of tracks aroun a buncha townz 20:10:13 <sugarman> n put a buncha trains on it 20:10:18 <sugarman> is that cool? 20:10:25 <LordAro> try it and see ;) 20:10:35 <sugarman> yeah i will 20:10:39 <LordAro> https://wiki.openttd.org/en/Manual/ you might wanna have a read of this though 20:11:07 <LordAro> TrueBrain: why on earth did you decide on red(ish) for links on the wiki? 20:11:20 <TrueBrain> that is orange darling 20:11:24 <TrueBrain> like all openttd.org links are 20:11:31 <TrueBrain> for like .. 15 years now :) 20:11:37 <LordAro> yeah... but it's the wiki 20:11:46 <LordAro> every wiki ever uses red links for "page does not exist" 20:11:58 <TrueBrain> that is why it is not red 20:12:00 <TrueBrain> but orange 20:12:08 <TrueBrain> I just took the website CSS :) 20:12:09 <LordAro> oh, well then 20:12:16 <LordAro> no problems at all. 20:12:26 <TrueBrain> you ask me why 20:12:29 <TrueBrain> :) 20:12:44 <TrueBrain> deadlinks are grey btw 20:12:56 <LordAro> also, it is #DD6000, orange is rather lighter :p 20:13:22 <TrueBrain> pretty sure with that much green you cannot consider it red either 20:13:27 <TrueBrain> it left red like 0x003000 ago :P 20:13:44 <LordAro> "mediumblue" is much better, imo 20:14:06 <TrueBrain> pretty sure if we ask 10 people we get 10 different answers :D 20:14:13 <TrueBrain> but the why is simple, I just copied the website CSS :) 20:15:22 <TrueBrain> don't you hate that you are bisecting on a 32bpp blitter, where you wanted to test a 8bpp? 20:15:43 <LordAro> oops 20:15:44 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I kinda gave up debating "what colour should this link be" for openttd.org like 10 years ago 20:16:29 <TrueBrain> for years people have been saying they will fix our CSS 20:16:43 <TrueBrain> I think you put the most effort in it 20:16:48 <TrueBrain> gives you a bit of an idea :P 20:16:56 <andythenorth> it's fine 20:16:57 <andythenorth> it works 20:17:00 <glx> hey some did fix parts of the CSS 20:17:00 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with it 20:17:33 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8736: Fix #8731: Always use a 32bpp blitter if font anti-aliasing is enabled. https://git.io/Jt5If 20:17:46 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: clearly that is a matter of opinion 20:19:43 <andythenorth> mine is more valid of course 20:19:52 <andythenorth> just not everyone recognises that yet 20:21:15 <TrueBrain> now I come to think of it, the transparency .. is that not just 32bpp vs 8bpp 20:21:46 <TrueBrain> lets compile 1.10.3 and check .. 20:23:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp 20:23:19 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: with ^^, I kinda vote on making 32bpp the default for OpenGL on all platforms too 20:23:46 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/discussions/8737 fixing town names 20:24:26 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I think there will be more of those regressions for a lot of players, as they were used to how 32bpp does it 20:24:32 <TrueBrain> 8bpp is just .. subpar :P 20:31:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on issue #8670: Crash on macOS Big Sur after downloading graphics to 200% https://git.io/JtiPZ 20:34:44 <TrueBrain> frosch123: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/8619 <- you did this right? 20:40:57 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 20:41:03 <frosch123> oh, i thought that was already closed 20:41:32 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 20:41:37 <TrueBrain> :D You can have the pleasure of closing an issue :D 20:41:43 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 20:42:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #8619: Unused sounds https://git.io/Jt4Mc 20:42:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed issue #8619: Unused sounds https://git.io/Jt4Mc 20:42:13 <frosch123> i had to look up the pr 20:42:22 <TrueBrain> it was already 3 days ago 20:42:23 <TrueBrain> I mean 20:42:37 <frosch123> it was the osfx issue that was closed 20:43:32 <TrueBrain> E_TOO_MANY_TICKETS :D 20:46:10 <TrueBrain> I like how our NewGRF Settings window shows "Palette" 20:46:18 <TrueBrain> as that is the important piece of information to show our users :D 20:46:28 <frosch123> it's toggleable 20:46:46 <frosch123> it's important for newgrf older than 10 years 20:47:03 <TrueBrain> as user, I have no clue what it means or what I have to do with the info, honestly :) 20:47:06 <frosch123> like that vehicle grf that is almost as old as ottd, but people still talk abuot it 20:47:25 <TrueBrain> I use to have 2 GRFs, that gave me a game with trams 20:47:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: rename the button to "if things look pink, click here" 20:47:33 <TrueBrain> I now have 100 GRFs .. and I hav eno clue which gives me trams :D 20:47:47 <TrueBrain> frosch123: no, not a button or anything .. "Detailed NewGRF information" show that piece of info 20:47:47 <frosch123> use the text fitler for "tram" 20:48:09 <TrueBrain> frosch123: tnx, that worked surprisingly well 20:48:21 <glx> haha only 100 GRFs, the scan should be fast for you 20:48:45 <frosch123> TrueBrain: at the bottom there is a "toggle palette" button 20:48:55 <frosch123> it toggles the thing in the details 20:49:04 <TrueBrain> button is disabled :P 20:49:19 <frosch123> yes, in-game with no dev-settings 20:49:33 <TrueBrain> I am at the intro menu 20:49:36 <glx> opengfx uses windows palette only IIRC 20:49:48 <TrueBrain> with a clean config 20:49:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] orudge commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt5tW 20:49:51 <frosch123> we even allow toggling the palette when the newgrf sets it properly 20:50:06 <frosch123> oh, maybe that is a dev-setting then 20:50:20 <TrueBrain> so maybe we shouldn't show it for non-dev or something, dunno :) 20:50:52 <TrueBrain> anyway, it just made me giggle, like: what do I have to do with this piece of intel :D 20:50:57 <frosch123> ah, indeed 20:51:09 <frosch123> newgrf-dev-tool allows you to toggle the palette unconditionally 20:51:24 <frosch123> without them, you can only toggle them for old newgrf without palette information 20:51:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what do you to with grfid and md5sum? 20:51:43 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I was wondering the same, honestly 20:51:50 <TrueBrain> but I could imagine the case where someone asks you for that, or what-ever 20:51:53 <TrueBrain> but it is really thin too 20:51:55 <TrueBrain> same with Parameters 20:52:02 <TrueBrain> I get these bytes .. like .. euh .. okay, tnx? 20:52:02 <frosch123> imo, there is the space, so show something 20:52:32 <frosch123> i think md5sum is more useful than the "tags" on bananas 20:52:50 <frosch123> sometimes you need the md5sum. the tags are always useless :p 20:52:53 <TrueBrain> "View Details" button to show these things would work well too, I guess : 20:53:19 <TrueBrain> but okay, that NewGRF interface is not for the faint of heart anyway :) 20:53:20 <frosch123> and then? when i open the newgrf window, i have a lot of empty space on the right 20:53:36 <FLHerne> frosch123: Could the palette be determined by heuristics? 20:53:46 <TrueBrain> so the reason to add information most users don't know what to do with is because otherwise it is too empty? :D 20:53:56 <FLHerne> "Everything is pink, we should use the other one" seems like something the game can know on its own :p 20:54:06 <frosch123> FLHerne: not worth the effort 20:54:15 <frosch123> every newgrf since 2012 sets it 20:54:34 <frosch123> those people who use newgrf older than that, also know what palette means 20:54:39 <andythenorth> what are 'parameters' 20:54:45 <andythenorth> as we're playing this meta game :) 20:54:56 <TrueBrain> I already asked! 20:54:59 <TrueBrain> :P 20:55:09 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 20:55:10 <andythenorth> watwat? 20:55:15 <andythenorth> I should stop playing Blitz 20:55:18 <andythenorth> it just funds Putin anyway 20:55:24 <frosch123> maybe ottd should ask "in what year did you play ottd first?" on start-up? 20:55:29 <andythenorth> lol 20:55:30 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:55:34 <andythenorth> 'are you l33t?' 20:55:38 <frosch123> then use that to disable/enable old silly features 20:55:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: well, it is funny to walk through the interface after having for years :) 20:55:55 <andythenorth> or move 'toggle palette' to parameters 20:55:56 <TrueBrain> haven't 20:55:58 <TrueBrain> typing, hard 20:56:00 *** sugarman has quit IRC 20:56:02 <andythenorth> rename parameters to settings 20:56:08 <andythenorth> rename grfs to mods 20:56:23 <TrueBrain> sometimes the audience indeed seems to be another group than me :) 20:56:37 <andythenorth> you are not a group :) 20:56:42 <TrueBrain> than I am in 20:56:43 <TrueBrain> fine 20:56:45 <TrueBrain> have it your way :P 20:56:45 <andythenorth> oh dear andythenorth 20:56:54 <TrueBrain> want more salt with that? 20:57:09 <Timberwolf> frosch123: copy protection style quiz! List a feature and multiple choice answers of "this feature was first introduced by [ ] TTO [ ] TTD [ ] TTDPatch [ ] OpenTTD" 20:57:20 <andythenorth> salty salty tears 20:57:26 <andythenorth> oh wait, wrong game 20:57:28 <andythenorth> this isn't Blitz 20:57:36 <TrueBrain> or make a configuration setting: "I am old, give me back all my information nobody ever looked at" :P :P :P 20:57:51 <TrueBrain> would work for the mapgen too! 20:57:56 <andythenorth> can we rename another button pls? 20:58:01 <andythenorth> View unreadableme 20:58:11 <andythenorth> View badfontme 20:58:19 <frosch123> TrueBrain: anyway, you can tie tha "show palette info" to the "enable palette toggle button" 20:58:26 <frosch123> there is no point in showing it, if you can't toggle it 20:58:45 <frosch123> you can probably also tie md5sum to some developer setting 20:58:48 <TrueBrain> honestly, that confused me most, the distance between that text and the button 20:58:51 <TrueBrain> I did not link those together :D 20:58:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8718: Change: [Actions] stop relying on external actions for trivial stuff, and rely on cmake tools to build, test and pack https://git.io/Jt5qI 20:59:15 <TrueBrain> now you mentioned the button 20:59:17 <TrueBrain> it makes more sense :) 20:59:22 <frosch123> it's a classical gui :) display at the top, radio buttons at the bottom 20:59:31 <TrueBrain> yeah .. it fits the style of the game :) 20:59:40 <frosch123> a lot of ancient software follows the same pattern as ancient hardware 20:59:45 <TrueBrain> but okay, just random observation while trying to load a tram NewGRF :) 21:00:22 <TrueBrain> now lets look at the lovely bug: the tram is in front of the depot, going towards the depot .. yet, pressing the button: goto depot, says: unable to find depot :D 21:01:29 <frosch123> that only applies to trams? not to other road vehicles? 21:01:33 <TrueBrain> indeed 21:02:23 <andythenorth> wat? 21:02:34 <andythenorth> isn't this just pathfinder caching though? 21:02:34 <TrueBrain> its a fun little bug :D 21:03:00 <frosch123> sometimes the pathfinder starts searching on the next tile, maybe it has issues if the next tile is already the depot 21:03:14 <TrueBrain> no, it has to do with half-tiles 21:03:17 <TrueBrain> where it can turn around 21:03:21 <TrueBrain> it seems the PF doesn't understand those 21:03:47 <TrueBrain> while on that half-tile, it cannot find the depot 21:03:51 <TrueBrain> when it leaves, it can 21:04:00 <TrueBrain> busses etc never enter the half-tile 21:04:06 <TrueBrain> it turns around before the half-tile happens 21:04:09 <TrueBrain> I guess that is related 21:04:58 <glx> maybe exit direction is not properly detected for these 21:05:18 <TrueBrain> the fun part: having to open follow_track.hpp :D 21:05:27 <glx> have fun :) 21:06:44 <TrueBrain> if you don't hear from me in the next 2 days, call help 21:06:53 <glx> I think I opened it not too long ago for buses 21:08:24 <michi_cc> Okay, there's a very easy solution for #8734 and a quite hard one. 21:09:31 *** _2TallTyler has joined #openttd 21:10:04 <andythenorth> is naptime yet? 21:10:46 <glx> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/86818e5ae8a170951d00eb0060767c9d1687540c <-- ah yes, luckily it was solvable from outside, but I had to trace inside PF 21:11:24 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: You prefer to basically always use 32bpp I guess? 21:11:38 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I think it avoids a lot of annoyance by users, yes 21:11:53 <TrueBrain> I do like your PR btw, so maybe "both" is the correct answer :) 21:12:20 <TrueBrain> but really, if you are used to 32bpp transparency, you won't get used to 8bpp transparency anymore :P 21:14:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler commented on issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp 21:14:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] 2TallTyler closed issue #8735: Transparency of houses, etc., rendered too dark https://git.io/Jt5Jp 21:14:52 <michi_cc> Okay, lets merge #8736 then. Removing the prefer 8bpp altogether can be another commit. 21:15:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc merged pull request #8736: Fix #8731: Always use a 32bpp blitter if font anti-aliasing is enabled. https://git.io/Jt5kG 21:15:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc closed issue #8731: OpenGL font rendering https://git.io/JtQyz 21:15:18 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: exactly :) 21:15:43 <TrueBrain> okay, GetTileTrackStatus() returns 0 on half-tiles 21:16:56 <TrueBrain> and there is a "hack" there, which makes the PF think the tile is a full tile straight 21:17:17 <TrueBrain> so that explains why the PF is like: DUDE WTF :D 21:17:37 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: Okay, so for #8734, I completely missed that the mouse cursor can have a company colour remap applied. Easy fix: just remove separate cursor drawing. It was mostly intended to allow fast mouse updates than the game loop, but you've made that obsolete :) 21:17:57 <michi_cc> The hard fix is to improve the GL shader code to cater for all the remaps. 21:18:08 <glx> oh but the hack was for buses I guess 21:18:27 <TrueBrain> glx: no, the hack is for trams specific; and it is in the PF btw, not in GetTileTrackStatus, to be clear :D 21:18:30 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: hmmmmm 21:18:41 <TrueBrain> what I like about the OpenGL mouse handling 21:18:48 <TrueBrain> that it doesn't snapshot the buffer for bytes 21:18:53 <TrueBrain> end copy them back to "undraw" 21:19:01 <glx> ah then the hack feels wrong has half tile exit should be entrance in this case 21:19:26 <glx> s/has/as/ 21:20:03 <_2TallTyler> Question about strings: When game_creation.ending_year is set to 0, the setting reads "Never". I see the string in english.txt, but can't find where that string is specified when the setting is 0. Any ideas? 21:20:05 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: how "hard" is the hard fix? 21:20:45 <michi_cc> However hard it is to do Blitter_32bppOptimized::Draw as shader :) 21:20:46 <glx> searched for the string id _2TallTyler ? 21:20:50 <andythenorth> can we have drive through stations from jgrpp? /me wonders 21:22:06 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: :D Well, I think you can best estimate what solution is better .. having the mouse done by OpenGL is just better than the software solution OpenTTD uses, I think, but having to write complex shaders can break easily .. so yeah, nice problem to balance :D 21:23:01 *** Tirili has quit IRC 21:23:04 <frosch123> michi_cc: the mouse cursor is also broken when if consists of multiple sprites 21:23:14 <frosch123> do you need a screenshot, or do you know what i mean? 21:23:20 <glx> _2TallTyler: SettingEntry::SetValueDParams() I guess 21:24:08 <_2TallTyler> Aha, figured it out. Thanks. 21:24:09 <michi_cc> frosch123: That is supposed to work as it is iterating over _cursor.sprite_count 21:24:53 <frosch123> hmm, i think it draws both sprites, but the x-offset is off, they are overlapping 21:25:38 <frosch123> oh, the mouse-cursor clipping does not account for gui zoom 21:26:50 <michi_cc> Do you have some example cursor what is multi-part? 21:27:28 <frosch123> articulated vehicles 21:27:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:27:35 <frosch123> all the big engines in nuts 21:30:47 <frosch123> maybe it misses the sprite-offsets for the secondary sprites 21:36:40 <TrueBrain> I STRANDED A TRAM \o/ 21:37:01 <TrueBrain> it derailed and got stuck 21:37:01 <TrueBrain> nice 21:37:20 <_2TallTyler> Easy, just pull the pole off the wire ;) 21:38:28 <TrueBrain> so yeah, we don't have trackbits for halftiles 21:38:38 <TrueBrain> they are a bit centered around rails :D 21:38:51 <glx> how surprising 21:38:55 <frosch123> no, trains and ships have the same issue 21:39:00 <frosch123> depots, tunnels, bridges 21:39:14 <frosch123> all of them are enterable from one side only, and do not traverse 21:39:23 <frosch123> they are all special-cased in the pathfinder 21:39:39 <TrueBrain> but rails don't have half-tiles, do they? 21:39:42 <TrueBrain> sorry, I am a bit confused :D 21:39:48 <frosch123> depot are the same thing 21:39:57 <TrueBrain> rails in depot, yeah, fair 21:39:59 <frosch123> you can enter from one side, but only exit on the same one 21:40:11 <frosch123> same for tunnels and bridges 21:40:27 <TrueBrain> roads and trams just have it in many more places 21:40:33 <TrueBrain> and for trams a single case is patched 21:40:43 <TrueBrain> so that annoyed someone enough :D 21:41:01 <frosch123> try grepping for depot in the pathfinder code :p then add the tram-special case in the same places 21:41:21 <frosch123> actually, this sounds vaguely familar. i think i did that 12 years ago 21:41:36 <TrueBrain> I really wonder if we shouldn't just add trackbits, but that might be a bit more work :D 21:41:59 <frosch123> that does not solve anything 21:42:09 <frosch123> then the pathfinder thinks it can enter from the other side 21:42:16 <TrueBrain> huh? 21:42:20 <TrueBrain> if we add half-trackbits 21:42:22 <TrueBrain> how would it? 21:42:47 <frosch123> gettiletrackstatus also already has a "enterdir" parameters 21:42:56 <frosch123> i think bridges/tunnels/depots depend on that 21:43:08 <frosch123> so, if anything, make trams more similar to depot/tunnel/bridges, they work well 21:43:23 <TrueBrain> rvs have a similar issue 21:43:32 <TrueBrain> so it is a lot of "exception" code 21:43:50 <frosch123> rvs just ignore those single-bit tiles, they pretend they don't exist :p 21:43:56 <glx> so any half-road (tram or not) should be handled like a depot 21:43:57 <TrueBrain> yeah, which is a bug on its own 21:44:12 <TrueBrain> but for now, I am trying to understand what this hack for trams is suppose to do 21:44:17 <frosch123> you can bulldoze single roadbits of competitors, but not single trambits 21:44:41 <glx> but RVs can't turn around on half tile, they would move on grass ;) 21:44:45 <TrueBrain> if there is a half-tile, it acts like it is a full tile over either axis 21:45:05 <TrueBrain> which feels like it tried to address this bug, but kinda failed or something 21:45:17 <TrueBrain> glx: why wouldn't they be able to turn around earlier? :) 21:45:31 <glx> they actually do 21:46:14 <TrueBrain> ah, wait, another place corrects the tram hack 21:46:15 <TrueBrain> ish 21:46:29 <glx> hack to fix hack ? 21:46:36 <TrueBrain> it is a two-for-one-hack 21:47:33 <TrueBrain> single-bit trams act like they are x-axis or y-axis, but you cannot exit on the other side 21:47:38 <TrueBrain> so .. half-tiles :D 21:48:36 <TrueBrain> Some comments: /* sometimes the roadveh is not on the road (it resides on non-existing track) how should we handle that situation? */ 21:53:27 *** hotgirl55 has joined #openttd 21:55:15 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:58:30 *** _2TallTyler has quit IRC 21:59:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8738: Fix #8123: trams on half-tiles couldn't find depots https://git.io/Jt5Yr 21:59:56 <TrueBrain> well, instead of fighting the system, I just extended the already "fix halftile issue" 22:00:01 <TrueBrain> not sure what to think of it, honestly 22:01:55 <LordAro> TrueBrain: have you tried pointing 2 half-tiles at each other? 22:02:15 <TrueBrain> nope, let me try 22:03:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #8739: Fix: vehicle-cursor size-limit did not account for the interface zoom level. https://git.io/Jt5Y1 22:03:25 <TrueBrain> works as expected 22:03:33 <TrueBrain> good test-case LordAro :D 22:03:51 <LordAro> :) 22:04:07 <LordAro> how about if there's a more favourable depot on the other side? 22:04:14 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8739: Fix: vehicle-cursor size-limit did not account for the interface zoom level. https://git.io/Jt5YM 22:04:21 <TrueBrain> LordAro: exactly what I tried :D 22:04:28 <LordAro> ah good :) 22:04:46 <TrueBrain> the PF does that well :D 22:05:05 <TrueBrain> it is just sad that this is needed to fix it .. 22:05:15 <TrueBrain> but by the looks, fixing it properly takes ... more effort 22:05:19 *** peter1138 has joined #openttd 22:05:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 22:05:38 <frosch123> TrueBrain: is it possible to deduplicate that code with QueryNewTileTrackStatus ? or is that impossible? 22:05:52 <TrueBrain> hmm .. good question 22:06:13 <TrueBrain> the C++ magic in follow_track is high 22:06:34 <LordAro> follow_track is one of the more readable parts of the PF, imo 22:06:42 <TrueBrain> the code inside, yes 22:06:46 <LordAro> it's all the yapf stuff that is weird 22:06:47 <TrueBrain> how it is constructed .. euh .. 22:06:54 <TrueBrain> many template parameters 22:06:58 <TrueBrain> and helpers functions that read them 22:07:13 <TrueBrain> TT, IsRoadTT, etc 22:07:15 <LordAro> like the costrail.hpp(?) has a base class which isn't used anywhere else 22:07:28 <LordAro> true, but they're well enough named 22:07:30 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:07:39 <TrueBrain> yeah, just my C++ knowledge lacks here greatly :) 22:07:48 <LordAro> you're not just calling proc() and hoping for the best :p 22:08:00 <TrueBrain> so I think it could be deduplicated, I just don't know how :D 22:08:19 <TrueBrain> I would have to create an instance of CFollowTrackT I think 22:08:50 <TrueBrain> ah, no, wait 22:09:11 <TrueBrain> if you follow that template, boy ... 22:09:15 <TrueBrain> so many redirects to other names 22:09:38 <frosch123> maybe pull out a c-style function that does the shared part, and call that one from both 22:09:58 <TrueBrain> I do wonder what that if does in general, in that depot function 22:10:04 <TrueBrain> like .. it only fails if the tram is not on any tram tracks 22:10:07 <TrueBrain> is that .. realistic? 22:10:25 <TrueBrain> so I could also just remove that check 22:11:42 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i think that "sometimes the roadveh is not on the road" refers to the animation states when a rv is reversing 22:11:56 <TrueBrain> no, the function, YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot 22:12:03 <frosch123> road-vehicle/tram reversing and their frame is really weird 22:12:06 <TrueBrain> first checks if the RV is on any track 22:12:15 <TrueBrain> before it does the pathfinding 22:12:31 <frosch123> disable_node_optimization ? 22:13:10 <TrueBrain> looking through the history 22:13:19 <TrueBrain> added to check if the road below is compatible with vehicle 22:13:24 <TrueBrain> otherwise refuse to do depot-pathfinding 22:13:38 <frosch123> TrueBrain: that test it the same as in SetOriginFromVehiclePos 22:13:46 <frosch123> pretty sure it refers to rv while reversing 22:14:14 <frosch123> trains reverse instantly, roadvehicles have some weird animation states, that do not refer to trackbits 22:14:54 <frosch123> so: reverse a road vehicle, wait till it is orthogonal to the road direction, then click find depot 22:16:39 <frosch123> RoadVehicle::GetVehicleTrackdir() contains quite some magic 22:16:44 <TrueBrain> works fine 22:16:45 <frosch123> also, standard roadstops 22:16:49 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/96e2435aa82 22:16:52 <TrueBrain> was what introduced the if 22:16:53 <frosch123> what trackbits do they have :p 22:17:35 <frosch123> so, what happens when a roadvehicle is loading in a drive-in roadstop, and then you find a depot? 22:17:48 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:17:49 <TrueBrain> works fine 22:19:19 <TrueBrain> https://pasteboard.co/JPKhRKm.png 22:19:21 <TrueBrain> is what I am using to test 22:19:54 <TrueBrain> but okay, lets not create more bugs by removing something I don't understand .. lets see if I can deduplicate it :) 22:19:56 <frosch123> TrueBrain: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/078399d3141e12013e5e9ad36f2581908415b029 22:19:58 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 22:20:26 <TrueBrain> yeah, for sure that function can return wrong values :) 22:20:30 <TrueBrain> well, "wrong" 22:20:33 <frosch123> that added SetOriginFromVehiclePos, YapfRoadVehicleFindNearestDepot copied it from there 22:20:55 <TrueBrain> can you remove a half-tile while a bus is on the tile .. 22:21:08 <TrueBrain> no :D 22:21:50 <TrueBrain> too bad they didn't leave a comment about when that happens 22:21:54 <TrueBrain> just that it happens 22:22:05 <frosch123> r5033 is about multistop handling 22:23:05 <TrueBrain> but okay, I would love to clean up this code, but I guess fixing the problem is more useful .. so deduplicate, and use in a few more places, I guess? :) 22:25:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 22:28:44 <frosch123> hmm, no idea who yanek is 22:28:51 <frosch123> dorpsgek logs start in 2007 22:29:04 <frosch123> tt-forums has only unrelated reports on that day 22:29:14 <TrueBrain> flyspray? email? 22:29:33 *** hotgirl55 has quit IRC 22:29:35 <frosch123> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=24703&start=60 <- i expected it here, but only other stuff 22:30:09 <frosch123> but when something is introduced at 11:00 and fixed at 17:00, i think irc 22:30:29 <frosch123> there was not even a nightly inbetween 22:31:29 *** hotgirl55 has joined #openttd 22:36:07 <frosch123> night, need more sleep 22:36:10 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:36:32 *** Beerbelott has joined #openttd 22:37:07 <TrueBrain> now I wonder what happens if I apply the same logic for RVs .. 22:37:19 <Beerbelott> Hello! How do you configure AI script_settings on a headless instance? 22:37:24 *** hotgirl55 has quit IRC 22:37:31 *** mirrorbird has joined #openttd 22:42:22 *** mirrorbird has quit IRC 22:42:30 *** mirrorbird has joined #openttd 22:43:28 *** rptr has joined #openttd 22:43:38 <TrueBrain> possibly via openttd.cfg? Dunno .. you can always prepare a savegame and load that 22:45:48 <TrueBrain> hmm, no, for RVs it is not as simple as duplicating the same tram trick .. guess there is more to it 22:47:32 *** nielsm has quit IRC 22:50:46 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 22:53:00 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:55:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8738: Fix #8123: trams on half-tiles couldn't find depots https://git.io/Jt5Yr 22:55:15 <TrueBrain> okay, enough fiddling with trying to make RVs turn on half-tiles :P 22:55:23 <TrueBrain> lets keep it at fixing trams :) 22:56:06 <TrueBrain> ugh, I added the issue in the commit message again .... fucking spam in the issue now :P 22:56:22 <Beerbelott> TrueBrain I set start_date for an AI to a specific value, but what AI::GetStartNextTime() returns is different 22:56:34 <TrueBrain> it is always randomized a bit, I believe 22:56:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:56:56 <Beerbelott> I wonder if the value I set is being loaded of if any of the AI::START_NEXT_* are being used 22:57:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:59:05 <TrueBrain> yeah, it is always +/- 60 days from what you entered in start_date 22:59:14 <Beerbelott> Hmmm I don't get where the value is being randomised when it's being read from GetSetting (either in AIConfig or ScriptConfig) 22:59:19 <TrueBrain> well, [0, 60), I believe 22:59:32 <TrueBrain> _start_date_config defines how the config behaves 22:59:32 <Beerbelott> So I trust it's randomised on load from config files? 22:59:42 <TrueBrain> which has a value int random_deviation; 23:00:01 <TrueBrain> which is being added by AddRandomDeviation 23:00:26 <TrueBrain> which is called on any config change 23:00:32 <TrueBrain> so on load is the most likely situation, yes 23:00:37 <TrueBrain> well, load of a game 23:00:38 <TrueBrain> not of config 23:00:51 <TrueBrain> wouldn't be much random if it was not per game :) 23:01:26 <Beerbelott> hehe 23:01:34 <Beerbelott> OK thx for all this 23:01:39 <TrueBrain> np 23:01:39 <Beerbelott> thought I was crazy 23:02:11 <Beerbelott> Also, AI load doesnot work if you set it on the 1st line of the [ai_players] config block 23:02:22 <Beerbelott> it *has* to be at least on the 2nd line 23:02:31 <Beerbelott> It's a bit confusing 23:02:32 <TrueBrain> that sounds like a worthy bug report :) 23:02:39 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues 23:02:48 <Beerbelott> Oh I know that place (: 23:03:14 <glx> first line is human :) 23:03:39 <glx> but for dedicated servers it should work 23:03:50 <TrueBrain> so the entries also indicate which company slot? 23:03:59 <TrueBrain> not exactly what I expected, but I guess that makes sense 23:04:06 <TrueBrain> so not a bug Beerbelott ! :D 23:04:25 <glx> well it matches the GUI 23:04:52 <Beerbelott> glx I confirm it doesnot work on dedicated server 23:05:07 <Beerbelott> I set on the 1st line, GetStartNextTime() returns 730 23:05:25 <Beerbelott> Which is 2 years fro mthe defaults settings somewhere 23:05:39 <Beerbelott> If* 23:05:52 <TrueBrain> okay, I am going to close pathfinders and RVs ... so many places trams have code to allow them to reverse on half-tiles, I give up :D 23:06:13 <TrueBrain> (not only in the PF, but also in the cmd of trams) 23:06:33 <Beerbelott> I notice when the server runs, I notice there is always one "Server" client: I suppose it takes the 1st spot 23:06:43 <TrueBrain> it should be a spectator 23:06:48 <TrueBrain> there should be no company 23:07:13 <Beerbelott> No, there is none indeed 23:07:44 <Beerbelott> But the AI load is only triggered when the game runs... which occurs on my server only when there is at least one player connected, due to a setting 23:08:17 <TrueBrain> yes, AIs start after a few game days 23:08:24 <TrueBrain> so a paused game never starts an AI :) 23:08:25 <Beerbelott> Hence the AI load seems to only be triggered after the 1st player company is created... SO I suppose that's where the problem comes from? COllision between real players and the AI? 23:08:51 <TrueBrain> if company #1 exists, no AI can start on that company, no 23:08:56 <TrueBrain> humans trump AIs 23:09:03 <Beerbelott> So if I set an AI on sport, say #3, and 3 players exist when the server tries to load the AI: it will never happen? 23:09:10 <Beerbelott> spot* 23:09:16 <TrueBrain> it appears so, yes 23:09:20 <Beerbelott> Oof 23:10:36 <Beerbelott> I thought this list was a dynamic one of AIs, but it actually is a fixed list of players spots 23:10:44 <TrueBrain> company spots, it seems 23:11:00 <TrueBrain> so you can just define all spots with the same AI if you like 23:11:15 <TrueBrain> AIs start 1 after the other, with their delays 23:11:25 <TrueBrain> just you would have more AIs :D 23:11:27 <glx> may be a bug btw 23:11:36 <TrueBrain> well, the GUI works like that 23:11:39 <TrueBrain> so I guess it is intended 23:11:43 <TrueBrain> might not be very flexible, but .. 23:11:55 <Beerbelott> Well I certainly don't wanna fill aserver with AI up. SOunds even less useful than cryptomining on that box :D 23:11:55 <TrueBrain> btw, Beerbelott , setting start_date to 0 should start it from the moment a new game is created 23:11:57 <TrueBrain> maybe that helps 23:12:16 <LordAro> sounds like something in one of Samu's (closed) PRs 23:12:26 <Beerbelott> Imagine a server full with AI. Do people watch that for fun? :D 23:12:41 <TrueBrain> Beerbelott: there are tournaments, yes :) 23:12:44 <glx> GUI is also defines max AI and disable extra lines 23:13:04 <TrueBrain> it is not really user friendly, the approach taken, honestly 23:13:08 <TrueBrain> as in, singleplayer was considered 23:13:10 <TrueBrain> not multiplayer 23:13:19 <Beerbelott> glx There indeed is a max_no_competitors setting 23:13:29 <glx> yeah originaly AIs were SP only 23:13:35 <Beerbelott> So the idea would be to spam the AI in all the spots with that setting? 23:13:43 <TrueBrain> and the GUIs are build around the SP experience 23:13:53 <TrueBrain> and the ini file is a representation of the GUI :D 23:14:03 <glx> then someone allowed them on the server 23:14:07 <Beerbelott> Sounds awfully like a bypass 23:14:27 <TrueBrain> another approach on a multiplayer server is to use the admin port to start AIs 23:15:15 <Beerbelott> SOunds like a hack too: server confs are believed to be deterministic and self-sufficient 23:15:39 <glx> well AIs in MP are kind of a hack 23:15:48 <TrueBrain> are we looking for solutions or principles? :D 23:16:31 <Beerbelott> I think I got my hack, but a config solution would be nice (: 23:16:47 <TrueBrain> requires GUI changes too 23:16:50 <TrueBrain> so not an easy task ;) 23:17:03 <glx> you also have the option to use start script 23:17:16 <TrueBrain> but that is the same as using start_date 0, I guess 23:18:34 <glx> AI management is not optimal (even in SP) 23:19:00 <TrueBrain> 1.12 the big UI overhaul? :D 23:19:21 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:19:27 <glx> start_date setting itself is implemented as a hack in the AI config 23:19:41 <TrueBrain> it has more exceptions than I dare to count :) 23:20:49 <TrueBrain> but would be nice to change the whole UI to be more for ... players, instead of developers / NewGRF authors / ... :D 23:20:52 <TrueBrain> remove all the historical bla 23:21:35 <LordAro> needs one of LC's new game guis :) 23:21:44 <LordAro> with tabs 23:21:48 <LordAro> i liked that one 23:21:53 <TrueBrain> link or it didn't happen 23:22:13 <LordAro> you're gonna make me search for it, aren't you? 23:22:21 <TrueBrain> you brought it up :) 23:22:24 <TrueBrain> you can't half-ass that :P 23:24:25 <glx> there was a suggestion with AI/GS and newgrf GUI "merge" 23:24:55 <LordAro> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1240204#p1240204 not this one, and not like this at all (this is a noisy mess), but tabs per content type is sorely needed 23:25:02 <TrueBrain> frosch123 went a bit further, and I agree with him: merge it together into presets 23:25:49 <TrueBrain> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?mode=view&id=215678 <- I like that more than tabs, personally 23:25:54 <TrueBrain> also works well for settings etc 23:26:21 <TrueBrain> tabs for online content is a bit annoying for when you are searching 23:26:34 <LordAro> the idea is to reduce scrolling 23:26:42 <LordAro> headers don't really help with that 23:26:45 <TrueBrain> hence those kind of tabs, and collapse them by default 23:26:55 <TrueBrain> works nearly the same as tabs :) 23:26:58 <glx> grouping newgrf by category seems nice, but load order matters for newgrf 23:27:21 <TrueBrain> and what I would do, is always keep the categories visible 23:27:32 *** supermop_Home has joined #openttd 23:29:12 <TrueBrain> so, reasons to remove 8bpp: allow PNG loading, allow nicer shadows, allow (future) smoother news transitions 23:29:22 <TrueBrain> well, they are all possible in 32bpp only 23:29:25 <glx> I think categories are ok for the available list, but not for the active config 23:29:29 <TrueBrain> so no need to remove 8bpp, just you can't have it with 8bpp :D 23:30:03 <TrueBrain> in general, most of those UIs are too busy 23:30:06 <TrueBrain> too many things in there 23:30:11 <TrueBrain> that doesn't work, not really 23:30:22 <TrueBrain> less is more 23:31:01 <TrueBrain> my idea would be to integrate online content with the screen you are at, as in: when you are looking at AIs, integrate the online content for AIs there 23:31:10 <TrueBrain> having a single window with all online content, feels ... weird 23:31:21 <TrueBrain> it was fun when there were like 100 things 23:31:46 <glx> opening online content by mistake is not fun ;) 23:31:55 <TrueBrain> and sure, tabs solve that issue 23:32:14 <TrueBrain> but .. there are other solutions too honestly, that just make the window not needed :P 23:32:38 <TrueBrain> a single window with "Installed mods" would be sufficient 23:33:00 <TrueBrain> server-side filtering 23:33:12 <TrueBrain> that would also help a lot with the lag etc 23:33:29 <glx> yeah newgrf, ais, GS in mods config 23:34:01 <TrueBrain> https://gist.github.com/TrueBrain/717ec940bb48d309747bffdc5b2e507e <- bottom image .. poorly visualised I now see 23:34:11 <TrueBrain> I will see if I can work that out a bit tomorrow 23:34:28 <TrueBrain> but just fluent integration of local and remote content 23:34:35 <TrueBrain> also for savegames for when cloud-saves :P 23:35:06 <glx> yeah and get scenario from bananas when you want to start a scenario 23:35:12 <TrueBrain> exactly 23:35:26 <TrueBrain> just show the ones you have locally, and the first N best rated from remote 23:35:37 <TrueBrain> when you type in a filter, allow fetching from remote when you click the "fetch from remote" 23:36:38 <TrueBrain> rating system ... another problem :D 23:36:50 <TrueBrain> giving stars has shown to not really work in this world 23:36:53 <TrueBrain> but what does? 23:36:59 <TrueBrain> upvote-only? 23:37:03 <LordAro> searching thr forum with google is fun sometimes https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=354250#p354250 23:37:24 <LordAro> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=57124 23:39:58 <TrueBrain> but yeah, if/when we make presets, we can redo AI settings etc too 23:41:36 <TrueBrain> what is nice about people being able to upload presets, that we can see a bit what is popular :D 23:41:45 <TrueBrain> gives a bit of telemetry at least :) 23:42:36 <TrueBrain> right, time to get some sleep 23:42:38 <Beerbelott> Alright, thx for your help (: 23:48:19 <LordAro> #5147 contains some interesting ideas 23:48:29 <LordAro> still haven't found what i've got in my head though 23:48:35 *** arikover has left #openttd 23:56:38 <LordAro> still not quite sure it's what i was originally thinking of, but https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/5147#issuecomment-379448533 seems quite close