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00:04:01 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:33:41 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:11:33 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 01:13:00 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:17:18 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 01:17:31 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 01:18:34 *** Webster has joined #openttd 01:23:42 *** blathijs has quit IRC 01:24:15 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 01:26:38 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 01:26:51 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 01:40:25 *** Wuzzy2 has joined #openttd 01:42:08 *** Wuzzy has quit IRC 02:24:31 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:25:23 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 02:27:54 *** D-HUND has quit IRC 02:49:35 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 03:39:26 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 03:39:54 *** Wuzzy2 has quit IRC 03:47:04 *** Flygon has quit IRC 04:49:42 *** lobster has quit IRC 06:02:20 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:22:20 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:33:32 *** debdog has quit IRC 06:33:39 *** didac has quit IRC 07:29:18 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:32:31 <peter1138> LordAro, help 07:33:38 <LordAro> hellos 07:36:35 <TrueBrain> does he want you to dial 112? 07:38:26 <LordAro> i hope not, i don't have a lot more information than "some guy in <town>" 07:40:28 <LordAro> https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/FD86/production/_117720946_evergiven_salvage_1_640-2x-nc.png the more i look at this image, the stranger it gets 07:41:22 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 07:42:06 <TrueBrain> I love how the tugs are under water 07:42:19 <TrueBrain> that note is just briliant 07:42:48 <LordAro> i think they're trying to go for some sort of perspective 07:42:52 <LordAro> but it's just... all wrong 07:43:22 <TrueBrain> yup 07:43:29 <TrueBrain> you can't use more than one in a single image :P 07:46:51 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:48:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:02:55 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ghisvail commented on issue #8896: Flatpak: Please include the free OPL3 MIDI SoundFont in "/app/share/sounds/sf2" https://git.io/JY3m1 08:05:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 08:08:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 08:15:20 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 08:22:03 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 08:33:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:35:09 *** supermop_Home_ has quit IRC 09:06:40 *** azubieta60 has joined #openttd 09:07:43 *** azubieta6 has quit IRC 10:32:55 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:00:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DonaldDuck313 opened issue #8912: Ship can't decide whether or not it wants to go for maintenance https://git.io/JYBFD 11:08:30 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 11:08:36 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 11:34:36 <Timberwolf> That's how to solve the "what scale is OpenTTD?" question that keeps coming up. Have a "Note: some objects not to scale" message constantly displayed on the bottom left of the screen. 11:40:05 <Wolf01> Object in mirrors might appear closer than they are 11:42:56 *** J0anJosep has joined #openttd 11:44:17 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 11:46:07 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 11:55:14 <Timberwolf> Well, now I'll have that song in my head all afternoon. 11:55:55 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 12:13:04 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 12:15:02 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 12:29:34 *** supermop_Home_ has joined #openttd 12:29:40 <supermop_Home_> yo 12:43:39 *** argoneus has joined #openttd 12:54:20 *** jgx has quit IRC 12:54:41 *** jgx has joined #openttd 13:25:07 *** Wuzzy has joined #openttd 13:34:48 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 13:46:00 <_dp_> warning: objects in the game may appear more realistic than they are :p 14:41:04 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:15:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:15:08 <andythenorth> learnt how to force clustering in graphviz https://grf.farm/firs/cargoflow-force-clusters-tests/html/economies.html#steeltown 15:15:50 <LordAro> nice 15:16:04 <andythenorth> I _think_ that's improved? 15:17:10 <andythenorth> compared to https://grf.farm/firs/cargoflow_auto-colour-fix-tests/html/economies.html#steeltown 15:24:46 *** Samu has joined #openttd 15:28:37 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:32:53 *** Venemo has quit IRC 15:40:14 <LordAro> definitely better 15:41:16 <andythenorth> I'm going to tune a few more colours, then I think it's good enough 15:44:58 <andythenorth> there are 14 linear steps in the graph that follows the salt chain 15:46:27 <andythenorth> this limits the size of the font because scaling 15:47:09 <andythenorth> I can distort the linearity, but it's starts to fight graphviz, especially dot which prefers clean DAGs without back links 15:55:20 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:55:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:03:42 *** J0anJosep has quit IRC 16:44:06 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:54:34 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:03:05 <andythenorth> hm can I be bothered to tune this further, or shall I tidy up all my JFDI code? 17:03:20 <andythenorth> FIRS 4.0.0 release is Thursday :P 17:16:39 *** gelignite has quit IRC 17:33:56 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:36:04 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #8910: Change: Title game for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0gj 17:36:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8910: Change: Title game for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JYlvN 17:42:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain merged pull request #8901: Fix #8565: Stopped road vehicle displays a speed different than 0 https://git.io/JYZcF 17:42:19 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain closed issue #8565: Stopped road vehicle displays a speed different than 0. https://git.io/Jtfri 17:44:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on pull request #8906: Change: [CMake] Copy AI/GS compatibility files to build dir https://git.io/JY0a4 17:47:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8913: Backport master into 1.11 https://git.io/JY0VL 17:49:06 <TrueBrain> easiest backport evah 17:50:23 <TrueBrain> LordAro: please squash more, rebase less .. now I need to look up the PR numbers for all those you rebased :P 17:50:37 <LordAro> lol 17:51:19 <LordAro> different to usual way of backporting translations 17:51:21 <LordAro> but eh. 17:51:36 <TrueBrain> yeah .. this was way easier :) 17:53:24 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://git.io/JY0wT 17:53:25 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 17:53:41 <LordAro> lol 17:53:57 <TrueBrain> I was aware of that :) But we have to do it the 1st again anyway :) 17:54:05 <LordAro> true 17:55:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain opened pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0wu 17:56:10 <TrueBrain> ^^ gives you a bit of time to do your language thingy LordAro :) 17:56:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep updated pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JL5Hh 17:57:21 <TrueBrain> guess tomorrow I will write news post, Steam news, social texts, fix the images on Steam, and prepare livestream .. 17:58:08 <LordAro> and do all the extra releases 17:58:14 <TrueBrain> I am not going to do that 17:58:17 <LordAro> :p 17:58:21 <TrueBrain> I think I already said that, not? Hmm .. most likely :) 17:58:29 <TrueBrain> just to set expectations here :) 17:58:36 <LordAro> more or less 17:59:19 <TrueBrain> 88 files changed in master vs 1.11 .. damn 18:01:13 <LordAro> i should be able to do most of them 18:01:29 <LordAro> does that 88 include translations? 18:01:35 <TrueBrain> ofc :) 18:01:37 <LordAro> i imagine most of the rest is your terrain stuff :p 18:01:44 <TrueBrain> LordAro: I think orudge already did one this week :) 18:01:56 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pulls?q=is%3Apr+label%3A%22backport+requested%22+is%3Aclosed <- it is not a small list of other stuff too 18:02:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain commented on pull request #8901: Fix #8565: Stopped road vehicle displays a speed different than 0 https://git.io/JY0rr 18:03:57 <TrueBrain> okay, 1.11 smoketest works, so at least it starts etc :P 18:04:42 <TrueBrain> LordAro: mainly if you can do OpenGFX today/tomorrow, that would be great 18:05:01 <TrueBrain> the nag screen about missing 11 sprites is annoying :D 18:06:06 <frosch123> TrueBrain: that message is not shown for releases 18:06:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it isn't? Lol :) 18:06:36 <frosch123> bool missing_sprites = _missing_extra_graphics > 0 && !IsReleasedVersion(); 18:06:39 <TrueBrain> someone was annoyed enough by that that he wrote code for it? :P 18:06:41 <frosch123> bool missing_lang = _current_language->missing >= _settings_client.gui.missing_strings_threshold && !IsReleasedVersion(); 18:07:02 <frosch123> i think the missing_lang message was first 18:07:07 <frosch123> so it may just have been copy&paste 18:07:23 <frosch123> anyway, quite sure there were multple years without ogfx release 18:07:37 <TrueBrain> nevertheless, sounds like the right thing to do if LordAro can make the time :D 18:07:42 <TrueBrain> or you, ofc :) 18:07:46 <frosch123> or rather, there were ogfx releases, but noone uploaded them to binaries 18:08:23 <frosch123> i have time after the livestream :p 18:08:44 <TrueBrain> rather before, but we will see how it all works out :) 18:10:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] J0anJosep commented on pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JY0KU 18:10:52 <supermop_Home_> all this vaccine site refreshing has enabled me to convince captchas that I am actually a bot 18:21:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #173: Fix: Access to persistent storage of towns https://git.io/JY069 18:22:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 commented on pull request #173: Fix: Access to persistent storage of towns https://git.io/JY06N 18:25:17 <andythenorth> oh dear snail_UES_ did a funny :P https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1243093#p1243093 18:25:19 <andythenorth> oof 18:25:40 <snail_UES_> :p 18:25:52 <snail_UES_> I’ve never heard of features being removed because of a bug in the code... 18:26:02 <snail_UES_> usually, bugs gets squashed for features to be included :) 18:26:44 <snail_UES_> supermop_Home_: don’t mention that. I’ve been trying for hours 18:27:00 <andythenorth> I'm not prepared to retest a bad feature for another half a day 18:27:15 <andythenorth> so deletion seems most likely 18:27:25 <snail_UES_> btw, why did you drop running costs when a restaurant car is included? 18:27:37 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain opened pull request #202: Add: OpenTTD 1.11.0 release post https://git.io/JY0iF 18:27:53 <andythenorth> it was the only gameplay mechanic I could find for them 18:28:03 <andythenorth> but everything to do with the stupid cargo aging feature is absolutely broken 18:28:11 <snail_UES_> agree 18:28:15 <andythenorth> that feature is on my top 3 list of stupids 18:28:29 <snail_UES_> the function works like a hyperbula. Nice idea, bad implementation 18:28:29 <andythenorth> it's absolutely completely useless 18:28:55 <snail_UES_> I also use it to differentiate classes for passengers, but it has hardly any tangible effect 18:29:06 <andythenorth> until a player turns up and proves that it does 18:29:23 <andythenorth> using some combination of route length etc that you never envisaged 18:29:30 <andythenorth> and then they don't like it 18:29:41 <frosch123> TrueBrain: cheater! with that "100% rainforest" you are just baiting for your bingo card 18:29:54 <TrueBrain> well, that is the one thing that is 100% possible :P 18:29:56 <TrueBrain> 100% snow .. no 18:29:59 <TrueBrain> 100% desert .. no 18:29:59 <TrueBrain> :D 18:30:10 <andythenorth> 100% rainforest? 18:30:14 <andythenorth> what about rocks? 18:30:16 <andythenorth> transmitters 18:30:22 <frosch123> there isn't even a setting for percentage of rainforest 18:30:23 <andythenorth> I find your claim to be much hype 18:30:34 <andythenorth> I shall disprove you 18:31:12 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ I wanted to do negative running costs on restaurant cars, to represent earnings from sale of beer and pies 18:31:13 <frosch123> isn't that tree-brush scenario-editor only? 18:31:19 <andythenorth> but we can't have negative run costs 18:31:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain commented on pull request #202: Add: OpenTTD 1.11.0 release post https://git.io/JY0Pn 18:31:22 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is 18:31:35 <andythenorth> because some grf somewhere might have set a run cost value > 128 18:31:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 18:32:02 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/website] TrueBrain updated pull request #202: Add: OpenTTD 1.11.0 release post https://git.io/JY0iF 18:32:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: there you go 18:32:21 <frosch123> i just want to ensure the bingo cards are fair :) 18:32:23 <andythenorth> and we also can't have a per-vehicle cargo payment multiplier, JGR explained why, but I don't have the reason 18:32:40 <andythenorth> probably transfer credits though 18:32:45 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: true, but I doubt they’d offset the entire consist’s running cost significantly… those include fuel, maintenance... 18:33:25 <andythenorth> dunno, pies are quite good profit 18:33:55 <andythenorth> anyway this is why I concluded remove restaurant cars 18:34:03 <andythenorth> stuff like this just doesn't work in openttd 18:34:19 <andythenorth> the game is great at doing e.g. 64 meaningless railtypes 18:34:39 <andythenorth> not so much for kind of fun stuff 18:34:43 <snail_UES_> agreed, 64 is “too much”, but 16 was too little 18:35:01 <andythenorth> I'm not against people having 64 meaningless railtypes 18:35:03 <andythenorth> 'freedom' 18:35:18 <andythenorth> it's like having 64 meaningless cargos 18:35:31 <andythenorth> better than only having 32 18:35:40 <snail_UES_> unless people start asking for a separation between “wider” narrow gauge tracks, and metric tracks :P 18:35:59 <andythenorth> but mostly newgrf is suited to 'moar' 18:36:09 <andythenorth> 'interesting' does not really work 18:36:23 <andythenorth> and the historical attempts at that are weird 18:36:41 <snail_UES_> historical attempts are fun 18:36:45 <TrueBrain> okay .. so now only "annoying images for Steam" left .. that really really is something for tomorrow :P 18:36:53 <andythenorth> well cargo aging is a failed experiment 18:36:59 <frosch123> TrueBrain: how many this time? 18:37:02 <andythenorth> and the user bits on trains are weird 18:37:08 <TrueBrain> frosch123: just 2 18:37:11 <andythenorth> and the custom cargo payment CB is weird 18:37:13 <snail_UES_> don’t touch the user bits :p 18:37:19 <TrueBrain> so it is okay :) 18:37:28 <andythenorth> and the railcar flag is odd 18:37:40 <snail_UES_> user bits are the only thing that allows for features that would be otherwise impossible 18:37:42 <TrueBrain> anyway, if any of you can review the backport PR tonight, that would be lovely 18:37:56 <andythenorth> I never found a use for user bits ever 18:38:09 <andythenorth> afaict, they're for detecting things like restaurant cars in the consist 18:38:12 <snail_UES_> because you engineered your trainset in a very different way from mine 18:38:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: you would have to disable your set in presence of any other set :p 18:38:32 <andythenorth> frosch123 that has a certain appeal 18:38:40 <andythenorth> the one-giant-grf approach 18:38:51 <snail_UES_> I use them to assign a livery to the entire consist. Since “views” for engines were never implemented, they’re the only way to do that 18:38:53 <andythenorth> can I disable if daylength isn't 1? 18:39:17 <andythenorth> oh that's the other top 3 stupid feature in my list of 6 top 3 stupid features 18:39:22 <andythenorth> or maybe it's 7 top 3 stupid features now 18:39:29 <andythenorth> livery callback 18:39:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: there was a time, when angry newgrf authors disabled their set in ottd, because it did not behave like ttdp. didn't you recently consider the same for jgrpp? :p 18:39:45 <andythenorth> frosch123 I did, but I like JGR too much as a contributor 18:39:54 <snail_UES_> like, the livery override? 18:39:59 <andythenorth> nah the liveries cb 18:40:01 <snail_UES_> I don’t use it. I go all the way with cb36 18:40:23 <andythenorth> how do you let players select the livery? 18:40:40 <andythenorth> CB 19, liveries 18:40:48 <snail_UES_> I don’t do that 18:41:00 <andythenorth> it doesn't actually work, but I should probably stop posting videos of that :) 18:41:02 <snail_UES_> in my set, players select the livery by playing with the leading engine’s userbits 18:41:18 <snail_UES_> once those are set, all the vehicles attached to it follow the same livery 18:41:20 <andythenorth> how do they configure the user bits? 18:41:30 <snail_UES_> by refitting the first engine 18:41:38 <andythenorth> so livery CB? 18:41:42 <snail_UES_> you buy it and it appears with a default livery 18:43:07 <frosch123> you use userbits to provide information from the engine to the wagons? 18:43:17 <frosch123> that's the only case where you don't need userbits :p 18:43:49 <snail_UES_> no, with the userbits. I use the “refitted” function in m4nfo (which connects to the refit callback) 18:44:03 <andythenorth> oh the livery CB 18:44:14 <andythenorth> do you want to see my video of how that just doesn't work? 18:44:19 <snail_UES_> each refitting stage corresponds to a particular userbit settings 18:44:20 <andythenorth> I have 2, but one is better than the other 18:44:34 <snail_UES_> so you’re telling me my set doesn’t work? :D 18:44:40 <snail_UES_> even if it works exactly as intended? 18:44:41 <andythenorth> well the video is RUKTs 18:44:47 <frosch123> snail_UES_: yes, and wagons can read the refit status of the engine directly, no need for userbits there 18:44:55 <andythenorth> but I'm not picking on RUKTS, the CB is broken in OpenTTD 18:44:59 <snail_UES_> frosch123: this is where you’re not correct 18:45:15 <snail_UES_> it’s not that easy. If it were that easy, I wouldn’t need userbits at all 18:45:19 <andythenorth> eh? 18:45:21 <andythenorth> just var 61 18:45:28 <andythenorth> or parent 18:45:33 <frosch123> haha, no, i am very correct :) 18:45:46 <snail_UES_> frosch123: I’m sorry, but you’re not :) 18:45:46 <andythenorth> if it's all first engine parent should do 18:45:54 <andythenorth> is it the livestream already? 18:46:01 <andythenorth> does TrueBrain know that we should be live? 18:46:11 <andythenorth> DISAGREE! 18:46:14 <snail_UES_> I need userbits, to check if different types of engines can be attached in multiple traction. 18:46:27 <snail_UES_> let’s say I have two types of engines 18:46:34 <snail_UES_> engine 1 can have livery A, B or C 18:46:47 <snail_UES_> so refitting stages are: 0 is A, 1 is B, 2 is C 18:46:55 <snail_UES_> engine 2 can have livery B, D, E 18:47:05 <snail_UES_> so refitting stages are: 0 is B, 1 is D, 2 is E 18:47:08 <LordAro> snail_UES_: telling frosch123 that he is wrong about newgrfs is... "courageous" 18:47:18 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: yes, 45 minutes ago, it ended already 18:47:18 <snail_UES_> but he is in this case :) 18:47:19 <TrueBrain> you were not there 18:47:32 <andythenorth> TrueBrain blink and we missed it 18:47:47 <snail_UES_> the only way to figure out whether engines 1 and 2 have the same livery (in this case, it must be “B”) is through userbits 18:47:53 <andythenorth> incidentally I took child #2 for covid test this morning, hope that is negative 18:47:58 <snail_UES_> you can’t go there by simple refitting 18:48:07 <andythenorth> doing a livestream with a fever would be 'interesting' 18:48:11 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #8480: Multitile depots https://git.io/JY0MU 18:48:22 <snail_UES_> because, in my set, sometimes, livery “A” for engine “1” is unavailable (if certain wagons are attached to it) 18:48:39 <snail_UES_> so refit cycle “0” can be either livery “A” or livery “B”, depending on what’s attached to the consist 18:48:44 <Timberwolf> andythenorth: Can you catch covid from a livestream? 18:48:45 <frosch123> snail_UES_: again, it's possible without userbits. you are free to go the detour via userbits, if that is easier for you 18:48:48 <snail_UES_> this is why frosch123 is wrong :) 18:48:50 <frosch123> but they are not needed 18:48:50 <andythenorth> Timberwolf not as far as we know 18:49:02 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ also which cargo do you use for this? 18:49:04 <snail_UES_> frosch123: they are needed in this case 18:49:10 <andythenorth> and will I be banning the set with FIRS? :) 18:49:19 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: passengers 18:49:25 <andythenorth> wise choice 18:49:28 <frosch123> snail_UES_: the engineid can also be read. a lot of newgrf use that. andy does it a lot, quite sure pikka and V also do 18:49:43 <snail_UES_> of course, I also read the engineid 18:49:55 <snail_UES_> but as I explained before, engineid and refitting cycle are not enough 18:50:02 <andythenorth> sounds complicated 18:50:08 * andythenorth keeps things simple 18:50:11 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: did you finish (and share) the script btw? :D 18:50:21 <snail_UES_> you have to check for the presence or not of certain wagons, and sometimes, certain variants of it (like, a mail wagon built before 1904) 18:50:33 <andythenorth> TrueBrain no, I have a draft, but work has gone a bit silly, and I have potentially covid child #1 18:50:41 <andythenorth> oops wrong child, not that it matters 18:50:43 <andythenorth> child #2 18:50:47 <andythenorth> but I am confident 18:50:48 <TrueBrain> more reason to not leave the rest hanging :) 18:51:09 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: yes, my set is not simple :p 18:51:14 <snail_UES_> maybe my mind is too complicated? 18:51:18 <andythenorth> TrueBrain this is a dry fun for disagreeing 18:51:21 <andythenorth> fun? 18:51:22 <andythenorth> run? 18:51:41 <andythenorth> frosch123 so do you have 10 'top 3 worst newgrf things'? 18:51:54 * andythenorth wonders who has longest list of worst 3 things 18:52:01 <Timberwolf> Reddit already did that. 18:52:07 <Timberwolf> 4x, 2x, and 32bpp. 18:52:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: i have like 10 things, but only 3 or 4 are entertaining 18:52:22 <frosch123> the rest is "too technical" 18:52:38 <andythenorth> well you can also mention the time I broke the nml repot 18:52:42 <andythenorth> repo * 18:52:49 <andythenorth> that was actually one of my worst openttd days 18:53:08 <frosch123> you have to talk about that, because i don't remember it :) 18:53:37 <andythenorth> I pushed an NRT early draft to master on openttdcoop 18:53:44 <andythenorth> probably with hg 18:54:03 <andythenorth> was a bit stressful 18:54:22 <andythenorth> do you remember the fork bomb I sent you? 18:55:13 <frosch123> i remember how you split a 20 second compile into 100 parts, which each needed 0.5 seconds for startup 18:55:23 <FLHerne> andythenorth: "bug in nml means pax car running costs are 3x what they are shown as in purchase menu" <- does that mean "bug in NMLC" ? 18:55:24 <andythenorth> that too 18:55:32 <frosch123> so they did 0.5 seconds startup, and 0.2 seconds actual work 18:55:36 *** Xaroth5 has joined #openttd 18:55:48 <andythenorth> FLHerne yes, it's related to result returned if var access fails 18:55:54 <andythenorth> frosch123 knows more 18:55:55 <frosch123> FLHerne: it's not a "bug". it's a missing feature 18:56:16 <FLHerne> hm? 18:57:15 <frosch123> FLHerne: newgrf have a concept about some variables not being "available". reading them kind of "throws an exception", aborts the current switch, and continues with the first switch case 18:57:34 <frosch123> the idea is to make nml insert a "case 1..0" as first case everywheere 18:57:42 <frosch123> and link it to "defined behavior" 18:57:46 <frosch123> by default "CB_FAILED" 18:58:13 <frosch123> currently nml explains the raw nfo behavior, which noone expects, not even nfo coders :p 18:58:21 <frosch123> s/explains/exposes/ 18:59:02 <frosch123> so, the "bug" is a missing "abstraction" to make nml not as terrible as nfo :) 18:59:58 <frosch123> FLHerne: oh, just in case you wonder. the nfo specs mention this in a single sentence, hidden in some paragraph :p 19:00:01 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 19:00:22 <frosch123> you are more likely to discover it by reading ottd source 19:00:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] michicc commented on pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0yL 19:00:50 <frosch123> let's create an issue for this 19:03:34 <Wolf01> andythenorth how is going with cargoflow? 19:03:59 <andythenorth> Wolf01 I learnt how to cluster in subgraphs 19:04:13 <andythenorth> this is about as good as it will get 4.0.0 I think https://grf.farm/firs/cargoflow-force-clusters-tests/html/economies.html#steeltown 19:04:33 <andythenorth> I mostly cluster cargos 19:04:49 <Wolf01> Looks nice 19:04:59 <andythenorth> it gives the 'shape' of the economy much more now 19:05:07 <andythenorth> kind of relates to how it's played in game 19:05:14 <andythenorth> the order of connecting things 19:05:20 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0wu 19:07:26 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: any reason why “paints and coating” (COAT) needed to have a separate label than ECS’s “dyes” cargo? 19:07:44 <snail_UES_> other than giving more work to other trainset developers, of course… ;) 19:10:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] frosch123 opened issue #198: Provide abstraction for intuitive behavior of "unavailable" variables https://git.io/JY0SX 19:10:23 <frosch123> FLHerne: readable? 19:10:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0SH 19:12:08 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ because re-using cargo labels is a proven failure pattern? 19:12:13 <andythenorth> there is zero cost to a new one 19:12:29 <snail_UES_> but ECS and FIRS will never co-exist in a game 19:12:40 <andythenorth> I am failing to see the case :) 19:13:03 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0wu 19:13:05 <snail_UES_> using the same label for a very similar cargo would mean that my set would already know how to treat COAT in FIRS 19:13:06 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0wu 19:13:11 <TrueBrain> lol @ GItHub 19:13:16 <TrueBrain> that is just stupid 19:13:34 <andythenorth> you'll never be able to keep up with FIRS cargos 19:13:34 <LordAro> lol 19:13:41 <andythenorth> it's not even a goal 19:13:48 <snail_UES_> like this, instead, I’ll have to work on my code and specify that COAT has to be treated just like DYES 19:13:55 <snail_UES_> hahahaha 19:14:05 <andythenorth> I can't keep up with FIRS cargos 19:14:07 <snail_UES_> why? don’t you want other trainsets to support your industries? 19:14:17 <andythenorth> I literally don't care either way 19:14:22 <andythenorth> I tried caring, it has no value 19:14:28 <andythenorth> just wastes a lot of motivation 19:14:56 <snail_UES_> but what’s the fun in having so many cargo types in an industry set, if no vehicle set will ever be able to keep up? 19:15:05 <andythenorth> I don't understand the question 19:15:34 <TrueBrain> I think I did not break it ... 19:15:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain updated pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0wu 19:15:40 <andythenorth> Timberwolf livestream! 19:15:46 <andythenorth> how to keep up with FIRS cargos! 19:15:47 <FLHerne> The main purpose of cargo types is to make your trains look pretty and varied 19:16:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: cargo classes! 19:16:10 <FLHerne> Thus having vehicles support them with custom graphics is essential 19:16:11 <snail_UES_> you have many cool cargos in FIRS, but if no trainset can handle them properly (with the correct graphics, the right wagons etc) then what’s the point? 19:16:21 <andythenorth> I don't understand the question 19:16:24 <andythenorth> :P 19:16:38 <FLHerne> [there is One True Way To Play] 19:16:47 <andythenorth> the point is to have more cargos 19:16:52 <andythenorth> that's it 19:16:55 <andythenorth> all finis 19:16:59 <andythenorth> terminado! 19:17:03 <andythenorth> cookies 19:17:05 <frosch123> snail_UES_: isn't the opposite "never add a new cargo that no vehicle set yet supports" just as sily? 19:17:05 <andythenorth> prizes 19:17:22 <snail_UES_> frosch123: yes, agree. There should be a balance 19:17:39 <andythenorth> I mean nobody noticed that FIRS has destroyed the 'balance' for passenger vehicles for the last 10 years 19:17:48 <andythenorth> so eh 19:17:50 <snail_UES_> but Andy just told us that no one will ever be able to keep up… :p 19:17:54 <andythenorth> vehicle set lolz 19:18:36 <frosch123> andythenorth: weird, because they noticed that ottd destroyed purchase/running costs immediately :p 19:18:44 <andythenorth> funny isn't it 19:20:26 <andythenorth> snail_UES_ I'm not sure if I can add many more cargos actually 19:20:34 <andythenorth> I'm running out of 2-letter abbreviations for them 19:20:40 <andythenorth> which are used...somewhere in OpenTTD 19:20:42 <andythenorth> that I never see 19:20:55 <frosch123> station list :) 19:21:04 <TrueBrain> LordAro: GitHub says you changed the title .. but they are identical? 19:22:49 <LordAro> TrueBrain: trailing space :p 19:22:59 <snail_UES_> you need a 2-letter abbreviation for a cargo type? I didn’t know 19:23:01 <LordAro> i noticed it in the dorpsgek messages :p 19:23:11 <TrueBrain> ..... LOL 19:23:16 <TrueBrain> and I was thinking my OCD was bad :D 19:23:17 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 19:23:25 <snail_UES_> if you tell me you might not add more for the “foreseeable future” :p I’ll update my trainset to support the new ones 19:23:53 <andythenorth> I have quite a lot to test 19:24:05 <snail_UES_> some of them are just variations… turns out I already drew steel beams, sheets, and cables as random variants of “steel” cargo 19:24:43 <snail_UES_> so I’ll just have to code each of them as STSE, STSH, and STWR cargo types 19:24:48 <andythenorth> if I do the chemicals economy, they are all tank cars 19:24:58 <andythenorth> but I might not do it, because it would all be tank cars 19:25:03 <snail_UES_> all tanks, but different colors, right? 19:25:09 <andythenorth> or I could do a new PIPE grf 19:25:10 <snail_UES_> and different types of tanks... 19:39:06 <TrueBrain> lol, I got Steam Awards for replying on that "why bother?!" post :P 19:39:21 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:39:52 <LordAro> lol 19:42:52 <FLHerne> It's a good reply 19:43:48 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 19:45:12 <frosch123> "poetry" :) 19:45:48 <glx> <snail_UES_> maybe my mind is too complicated? <-- seems as complicated as andythenorth's (you heard about his loop unrolling ? ) 19:46:12 <snail_UES_> his loop unrolling? 19:46:17 <andythenorth> that's not complicated :) 19:46:27 <andythenorth> I just wrote my own vars because OpenTTD doesn't provide 19:46:45 <andythenorth> "it's just a recursion" 19:46:50 <andythenorth> oh I've been around Eddi|zuHause too long :) 19:46:56 <andythenorth> oof 19:47:12 <andythenorth> I even suggest state machines as solutions for things at work 19:47:12 <FLHerne> snail_UES_: Have you seen FIRS' generated nml source recently? If not, be sure not to 19:47:25 <andythenorth> FIRS source is fine 19:47:30 <andythenorth> it's Iron Horse that's mad 19:47:42 <andythenorth> FIRS is small and mostly not mad 19:47:51 <andythenorth> still very slow to compile but eh 19:47:55 <andythenorth> 12 seconds :( 19:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling i'm way too nice... :p 19:48:13 <andythenorth> m4nfo is instant compile? 19:48:25 <snail_UES_> m4nfo compiles in a few seconds 19:48:38 <snail_UES_> and it depends on which part of the set you’re working on... 19:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm fairly sure you'll manage to not-instance it 19:49:07 <glx> FLHerne: about the "bug", it's third sentence in section above https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2#sets_and_ranges 19:49:12 <snail_UES_> like, if I make a change in a specific vehicle, I only recompile that specific part of the code, and it takes like 2-3 seconds 19:49:39 <glx> as said, very hidden info 19:49:59 <andythenorth> yeah m4nfo is much faster 19:50:06 <andythenorth> much much much 19:50:22 <snail_UES_> the recoloring tables are a pain in the butt, but that’s because I set them up before sprite stacking was avaialble. I’ve got A7F of them 19:50:46 <andythenorth> you did generate them from code? 19:50:47 <frosch123> is that a number or a censored curse word? :p 19:50:50 <andythenorth> not manually written? 19:50:57 <snail_UES_> sorry, 0x1A7F 19:51:18 <snail_UES_> sometimes I write hex the Commodore 64 way (with a “$”) :p 19:51:40 <andythenorth> oh wait m4nfo is only faster for trains 19:51:42 <andythenorth> nvm 19:51:50 <andythenorth> I remember why I didn't switch 19:52:00 <snail_UES_> andythenorth: nope, I generated them though Ctrl-C + Ctrl-V, and Ctrl-F :D 19:52:32 <andythenorth> ouch 19:52:48 <snail_UES_> yeah, prior to sprite stacking it was a pain. 19:53:10 <snail_UES_> Now I’ll be able to disentangle lights, wagon color, and cargo color 19:53:14 <andythenorth> 6783 recolour tables? 19:53:38 <snail_UES_> something like that. They include 4 different states of “age / dirt” condition, plus 8 states for the lights 19:53:44 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd 19:53:54 <glx> ok you're crazy ;) 19:53:55 <snail_UES_> so basically I’ve got 32 tables for each combination of colors 19:54:06 <andythenorth> ouch 19:54:21 <snail_UES_> I wish sprite stacking had been there much earlier :) 19:54:46 <frosch123> isn't it like 4 years old? 19:54:48 <andythenorth> why is everything about newgrf so mad? 19:54:57 <andythenorth> do other games have such modding frameworks? 19:55:05 <snail_UES_> frosch123: yes, but I started my set much earlier 19:55:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: i think the problem are "train people" :p 19:55:25 <snail_UES_> I’m going to do the standard gauge using that, so I’ll have much fewer recoloring tables 19:55:26 <glx> answer is easy andythenorth, it was added with ttdpatch 19:55:39 <andythenorth> frosch123 train people did invent computer games, so it's full circle 19:55:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Minecraft is just as bad 19:55:40 <glx> so of course it uses the hacky solution 19:56:00 <andythenorth> http://henryjenkins.org/blog/2007/10/spacewars_and_beyond_how_the_t.html 19:56:42 <andythenorth> hmm can we analyse newgrfs on Friday 19:56:57 <andythenorth> I'm interested in the complexity of train grfs vs. other grfs 19:57:06 <andythenorth> can we do the call graph or something? 19:57:12 <frosch123> i still want to do the "guess the graph" game 19:57:13 <andythenorth> livestream! 19:57:20 <frosch123> still haven't dont it :p 19:57:29 <andythenorth> grf bingo! 19:57:58 <andythenorth> or this game, but with grfs! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/184426579277?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=184426579277&targetid=877696481749&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9045627&poi=&campaignid=9441192132&mkgroupid=102652505024&rlsatarget=pla-877696481749&abcId=578896&merchantid=138818288&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5Kafy-bY7wIVitPtCh3_7A4DEAQYBiABEgI-m_D_BwE 19:58:03 <andythenorth> long link :o 19:58:07 <andythenorth> silly google 19:58:57 <frosch123> andythenorth: cool, that features an andy, a tyler, a matt and a chris :) 19:59:38 <snail_UES_> well, most “train people” are rivet counters. And rivet counters are very complicated people to deal with 19:59:39 <andythenorth> we could show code samples and guess who wrote it 19:59:47 <snail_UES_> so they will love complicated solutions for anything... 19:59:58 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:00:12 <andythenorth> oh we have a game show in the UK based on different people trying to lie and not get caught 20:00:15 <andythenorth> or something 20:00:27 * andythenorth can't remember detail 20:00:36 <andythenorth> but we could all pretend a piece of code isn't ours 20:00:41 <andythenorth> but it belongs to one of us 20:00:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean: someone explains something weird about newgrf, and the other have to judge whether that is true? 20:01:03 <andythenorth> yeah that 20:01:11 <LordAro> all your code are belong to us? 20:01:50 <andythenorth> there's a radio game where you have to narrate a subject for a minute or two, and include 3 lies 20:01:53 <frosch123> firs said: all your cargoslots are belong to us 20:01:56 <andythenorth> without the other players spotting the lies 20:02:17 <andythenorth> or turths 20:02:21 * andythenorth can't remember 20:05:03 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unbelievable_Truth_(radio_show) 20:07:41 <LordAro> needs more Just a Minute 20:16:04 <andythenorth> talk for 1 minute about nfo 20:16:15 <andythenorth> without deviation, hesitation, or repetition 20:16:25 <frosch123> talk for 1 minute in nfo 20:16:57 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:17:07 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:18:20 <frosch123> ooh... idea: wikis have that useless "random page" link 20:18:36 <frosch123> click it, and explain the content :p 20:18:57 *** jottyfan has quit IRC 20:18:59 <glx> and notice how it's wrong ? 20:19:04 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 20:19:20 <frosch123> the wiki content, or the explanation? 20:19:31 <glx> the content (probably outdated) 20:19:47 <frosch123> the newgrf wiki is not that bad 20:20:10 <glx> ah yes old not really changing stuff 20:20:11 <frosch123> ottd wiki no longer has that button, TrueBrain said it's useless 20:20:38 <glx> so I agree newgrf wiki should be quite correct 20:20:47 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/DebuggingGRFCode <- though good luck, if you end up there :) 20:20:50 <andythenorth> newgrf wiki is really quite good 20:21:01 <andythenorth> it's very rarely the most annoying thing about authoring newgrfs :) 20:23:08 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/TextIDs/Tree_strings <- there are also joker pages 20:25:55 <glx> good luck with varact2 pages ;) 20:26:14 <glx> especially advanced 20:26:19 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VehicleRefitting <- that page is already features in another section of the stream :) 20:26:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthew57778 opened issue #8915: Tunnel crash when placing bridge on top going same direction https://git.io/JY0xb 20:28:13 <glx> hmm I'd say probably already fixed 20:28:25 <glx> let's test 20:28:44 <frosch123> doesn't work for rail 20:30:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] matthew57778 commented on issue #8915: Tunnel crash when placing bridge on top going same direction https://git.io/JY0xb 20:30:17 *** y2kboy23_ has joined #openttd 20:30:50 <glx> ah nice pictures 20:31:03 <frosch123> oh, that's not how i tried 20:31:35 <glx> yeah I would have tried as you did, from entrance to exit 20:32:46 *** y2kboy23 has quit IRC 20:33:23 <frosch123> works in master, let's compile 1.10.3 20:34:18 <frosch123> 1.10.3 also works for me 20:35:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #8915: Tunnel crash when placing bridge on top going same direction https://git.io/JY0xb 20:38:43 <glx> maybe windows specific 20:38:53 <glx> compiling 1.10.3 20:39:00 <LordAro> james is also on windows, iirc 20:39:15 <frosch123> but not on 1.10.3 apparently 20:39:18 <glx> yes but I don't think he tried to reproduce 20:39:51 <LordAro> "since it does not crash for me on Windows 10 and OpenTTD f9d24ff" 20:40:39 <glx> yes on master it doesn't crash (I tried) 20:40:58 <glx> but I want to check if it does in 1.10.3 20:41:27 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] LordAro commented on pull request #8914: Doc: Prepare for 1.11.0 release https://git.io/JY0h7 20:41:40 <LordAro> could theoretically be release-build only? 20:42:06 <glx> possible but first I'll try debug build 20:43:31 <glx> maybe an optimisation "error", but symptom seems to be infinite loop 20:49:08 <frosch123> then you would have to try the official binary 20:49:15 <frosch123> so you have the exact compiler match 20:49:33 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:51:06 <glx> it's planned yes 20:52:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 20:53:11 <frosch123> anyway, no report from valgrind here. no suspicious looking code, so i blame user error :) 20:53:43 <glx> tried official build, no issue 20:56:30 *** Samu has quit IRC 21:02:44 <frosch123> close? 21:03:05 <glx> maybe I could try 32bit version too 21:04:05 <frosch123> it's probably caused by firs :p 21:04:32 <frosch123> oh shoot. did you see the rail toolbar 21:04:46 <frosch123> it's one of these freaking citybuilder clients, that pretends to be 1.10.3 21:05:04 <glx> oh but I indeed tried 32bit (default debug build when opening the project) 21:05:26 <frosch123> and? 21:05:59 <glx> and no crash 21:07:04 <LordAro> oh no 21:07:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #8915: Tunnel crash when placing bridge on top going same direction https://git.io/JY0xb 21:07:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed issue #8915: Tunnel crash when placing bridge on top going same direction https://git.io/JY0xb 21:07:22 <LordAro> good catch 21:10:20 <_dp_> yeah, I can repro it on cmclient but not vanilla 21:10:40 <LordAro> bad citybuilder client 21:10:43 <LordAro> don't do that 21:10:57 <_dp_> >:) 21:13:34 <frosch123> do you also have that weird selective-demolish tool? 21:14:57 <_dp_> you mean treedozer? it's relatively useful :p 21:25:59 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 21:26:07 <_dp_> https://youtu.be/1ZxSIK65Dfw?t=40184 21:27:23 <andythenorth> tweaked Tropic layout https://grf.farm/firs/cargoflow_tropic_tweaks_tests/html/economies.html#tropic_basic 21:27:27 <andythenorth> old https://grf.farm/firs/cargoflow-force-clusters-tests/html/economies.html#tropic_basic 21:27:46 <andythenorth> boring economy anyway :P 21:27:49 <andythenorth> all food 21:46:54 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:48:55 <frosch123> oh, you changed the arrows again :) 21:49:11 <frosch123> is good 21:52:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:53:02 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:06:02 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:13:40 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] ldpl commented on issue #8915: Tunnel crash when placing bridge on top going same direction https://git.io/JY0xb 22:23:03 <supermop_Home_> wwwooooo 22:23:12 <supermop_Home_> got an appointment scheduled 22:31:11 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 22:37:46 <snail_UES_> supermop_Home_: wow! lucky you :) 22:37:53 <snail_UES_> which website did you use to schedule it? 22:42:02 *** jottyfan has joined #openttd 22:42:57 *** glx has quit IRC 22:51:31 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:46:19 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:46:20 <Wuzzy> LordAro: orudge: It seems that OpenSFX 1.0.1 can be found on https://www.openttd.org/downloads/opensfx-releases/ but on BaNaNaS it is still 1.0.0. Intentional? 23:49:16 <LordAro> Wuzzy: i aven't updated it yet 23:49:22 <LordAro> so yes, it's intentional in that regard 23:49:29 <Wuzzy> oh, so BaNaNaS is manual? 23:49:56 <Wuzzy> also: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenSFX/issues/40 23:50:03 <Wuzzy> but ok, thanks for noticing