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2022-09-10:35:21 *** Webster has joined #openttd 10:55:38 <FLHerne> pickpacket: disassemble it with grfcodec, look at the NFO 11:22:03 <petern> This seems a bit unreasonable for a beginner with presumably a simple GRF. 11:23:11 <pickpacket> yeah... that's a steep learning curve... 11:23:30 <pickpacket> If I knew NFO I would write it in that :P 11:27:58 <pickpacket> what happens to cargo supplied by secondary industries? I.e. I specified Tea Tree Farm as a primary industry that supplies Tea Leaves, and Tea Factory as a secondary industry that accepts Tea Leaves and supplies Tea Tea Deluxe, but what happens to that? I'd love it if cities would accept it like they do goods, mail, and passengers. Is that 11:27:58 <pickpacket> something I have to fix myself somehow? And do I need to create custom vehicles for these two new types of cargo? 11:29:20 <TallTyler> You’d have to make something that accepts it, whether it be a house or an industry that appears in cities. 11:30:09 <TallTyler> You don’t need to create vehicles though, all modern NewGRF vehicles use cargo classes to determine what they can carry. 11:31:06 <Brickblock1> base game also uses cargo classes now 11:32:41 <pickpacket> TallTyler: Hm. 11:32:57 * pickpacket writes "Add Tea house" to list 11:35:17 <pickpacket> I'd love it if cities accepted tea without any specific building for it, but tea houses will do for a start. 11:35:53 <pickpacket> wait... if my NewGRF produces something that isn't accepted by anything, could that be what crashes everything for me? 12:00:48 <TallTyler> No, that doesn’t cause a crash 12:27:33 <pickpacket> hahahaha! 12:27:51 <pickpacket> Sooo... there was a value in the yaml file... "available: false" 12:28:14 <pickpacket> I changed it to true and now the NewGRF works. Except there are *no other* industries on the map... 12:29:24 <TallTyler> Did you disable all other industries? 12:29:43 <TallTyler> Or does TrueGRF do that automatically? 12:29:49 <petern> World domination of tea. 12:29:55 <pickpacket> Looks like TrueGRF does that 12:29:56 <petern> No other industry is needed 12:30:03 <pickpacket> petern: you have a point 12:31:09 <TallTyler> If you decide to make a Tea House to accept the Tea Tea Deluxe, I’d suggest going the industry route rather than a house. I use a house in my industry sets and it causes a lot of support questions. 😛 12:31:25 <pickpacket> this is both in the TrueGRF web game and locally, btw 12:31:41 <pickpacket> TallTyler: yeah I was thinking making it an industry based in cities 12:34:33 <pickpacket> could this have to do with industry and cargo IDs? 12:47:19 <TallTyler> No other industries present? It’s probably something built in to TrueGRF. Most industry sets do that since they tend to conflict unless you design them not to, or only use common cargo types like passengers. 12:47:37 <pickpacket> :( 13:03:56 <andythenorth> at some point TrueBrain will show up with questions or answers 🙂 13:04:16 <andythenorth> the TrueGRF thread is here btw https://discord.com/channels/142724111502802944/981511985436950569/threads/981558701578149919 13:36:15 <petern> andythenorth: Have you made a TTD .ttf yet? 13:36:44 <andythenorth> I have not 13:36:50 <andythenorth> FIRS.ttf? 13:36:53 <petern> Slacking 13:37:06 <andythenorth> shameful 13:41:10 <petern> Just get the VDU 23 commands out. 13:45:20 <andythenorth> MODE 2 14:03:43 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:16:20 *** amal[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:20 *** andythenorth[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:21 *** aperezdc__ has joined #openttd 14:16:22 *** blikjeham[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:22 *** cawal[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:22 *** christoph[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:22 *** citronbleuv[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:24 *** cjmonagle[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:24 *** lezzbehonest[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:25 *** CornsMcGowan[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:25 *** dag[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:25 *** dude[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:26 *** einar[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:27 *** elliot[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:28 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:28 *** fiddeldibu[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:29 *** gdown has joined #openttd 14:16:29 *** freu[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:30 *** giords[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:30 *** glothit7ok[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:30 *** grag[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:31 *** gretel[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:33 *** hamstonkid[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:34 *** Heiki[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:34 *** hylshols7qui[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:34 *** igor[m]12 has joined #openttd 14:16:34 *** ist5shreawf[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:35 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:35 *** jeeg[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:37 *** jeremy[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:38 *** joey[m]1 has joined #openttd 14:16:38 *** johanna[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:38 *** josef[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:38 *** karl[m]1234 has joined #openttd 14:16:38 *** karoline[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:39 *** khavik[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:39 *** kstar892[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:39 *** labs[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:40 *** leward[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:40 *** linda[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:42 *** luk3Z[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:42 *** magdalena[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:42 *** menelaos[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:42 *** nartir[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:42 *** natalie[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:42 *** natmac[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:43 *** NekomimiGunner18[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:43 *** nolep[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:43 *** olmvnec[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:43 *** ookfof[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:43 *** osvaldo[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:44 *** patricia[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:44 *** patrick[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:44 *** paulus[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:44 *** phil[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:45 *** philip[m]12 has joined #openttd 14:16:45 *** pothyurf[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:45 *** robert[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:46 *** rudolfs[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:47 *** shedidthedog[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:48 *** thelonelyellipsis[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:49 *** thomas[m]123 has joined #openttd 14:16:49 *** twom[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:50 *** JamesRoss[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:50 *** udo[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:51 *** vista_narvas[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:51 *** Elysianthekitsunesheher[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:52 *** YourOnlyOne has joined #openttd 14:16:52 *** yur3shmukcik[m] has joined #openttd 14:16:53 *** zzy2357[m] has joined #openttd 14:17:29 *** YourOnlyOne is now known as Guest1463 14:56:11 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:13:56 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 opened pull request #10052: Cleanup: Remove unused flag sprites. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10052 15:49:03 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 15:52:03 <nielsm> well that was interesting. I was about to install Quake 3 from my old cd on a retro pc, and when I open the jewel case, I find my Transport Tycoon Deluxe CD on top of the Quake 3 CD 15:52:27 <petern> Haha nice! 15:56:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #10003: Fix #9903: Don't build houses around half-tile roads https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10003#issuecomment-1258264325 15:59:30 <petern> I wonder what "Fox omntera;" was meant to be... 16:01:59 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 16:11:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:11:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on pull request #10004: Fix: Don't stop growth attempt if house is not allowed https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10004#issuecomment-1258283721 16:17:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #10043: Doc: Add Discord link in README and CONTRIBUTING https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10043 16:17:15 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed issue #10041: [Bug]: `CONTRIBUTING.md` and `README.md` both need updating to reference OpenTTD's Discord server. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10041 16:17:39 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 merged pull request #10026: Cleanup: The readme is for people building/packaging OpenTTD. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10026 16:17:42 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 closed pull request #10024: Added a link to a video on how to download and configure AI opponents… https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10024 16:23:51 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN approved pull request #10052: Cleanup: Remove unused flag sprites. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10052#pullrequestreview-1120557700 16:27:23 <petern> "Fix includes" seems to be it. 16:47:53 <andythenorth> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/a-history-of-arm-part-1-building-the-first-chip/ 16:50:39 <frosch> you can get an arm5 development board, if you port ottd to it, and blog about it 16:55:46 <petern> I have an ARM7500, based on ARM7, which is of course ARMv3... 16:56:16 <petern> Not sure there was an ARM5, but there was ARMv5. 16:57:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PatrickJosh opened issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion `fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 16:58:25 <LordAro> fontcachecache? 16:58:43 <andythenorth> not sure what ARM I have 16:58:44 <andythenorth> ARM 99 16:59:00 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PatrickJosh commented on issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion `fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 17:01:29 <petern> fccache.c? What's that... 17:02:54 <petern> Hmm, part of fontconfig. 17:03:14 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024003224899960842/unknown.png 17:03:28 <andythenorth> RISC looks like programming grf 😛 17:03:50 * andythenorth is not suggesting that grf is RISC :P 17:04:11 <petern> Have we JITted NewGRF yet? 17:04:20 <andythenorth> 'would be faster' 17:04:24 <andythenorth> GRFGRF 17:06:04 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:07:25 <petern> Hmm, don't have a PS/2 keyboard and mouse to plug in to the A7000+ 17:12:19 <andythenorth> I never did get an emulator working reliably 😛 17:12:31 <andythenorth> having an ARM CPU doesn't particularly win me much there 17:12:43 <frosch> andythenorth: it's the other way around. GRF are CISC. va2 have an accumulator and can only do operations with that. there are tons of registers with special meaning 17:12:51 <frosch> in RISC registers are pretty interchangeable 17:13:07 <andythenorth> I see 🙂 17:13:57 <TrueBrain> TallTyler: This. TrueGRF uses a WYSIWYG approach, so the industries that you see is what you get. And if you don't enable any .. Well, not sure 😄 but don't 😉 17:16:01 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:16:20 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 17:17:00 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 17:20:04 <petern> Just not PC 17:20:38 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 17:21:24 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 17:31:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 17:46:56 <glx[d]> #10053 is weird, blame the distribution ? 17:48:00 <glx[d]> oh it's in bootstrap, we never test thta 🙂 17:54:42 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 18:03:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 18:05:35 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 18:05:38 <LordAro> probably get them to test master, given recent changes 18:05:48 <petern> I think it's looking for fallback glyphs during bootstrap as the specified font is missing one. 18:06:11 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 18:06:11 <petern> one/some... 18:06:47 <petern> Easy enough to try with Fira Sans I guess. 18:06:57 <petern> But I'm on Windows so no fontconfig 🙂 18:07:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion 'fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 18:08:27 <frosch> i think it's similar to https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/fontconfig/-/issues/161 18:08:39 <frosch> we initialise and deinitalise freetype 18:09:16 <frosch> multiple initialisation is supported by freetype, they check whether their singletons exist already 18:09:29 <frosch> but deinit is: first one to trigger it, does it 18:09:40 <frosch> so if multiple users init/deinit, there is a problem 18:10:08 <frosch> on my system sdl2 does not link fontconfig 18:10:17 <frosch> but who knows 18:13:14 <petern> Oh, so we (de)init FC, SDL2 (de)inits FC, and boom... 18:14:29 <frosch> so far the theory, i can't prove it 🙂 18:18:21 <petern> Hmm, can't see a reference to FontConfig in SDL_ttf on github. 18:19:52 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024022513258340383/unknown.png 18:19:53 <andythenorth> shall I go for the full 64? 😛 18:32:13 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion 'fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 18:35:01 <petern> fontconfig rather than freetype, I guess 18:36:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] frosch123 commented on issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion 'fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 18:36:50 <frosch> i was so confused that freetype linked png 18:39:06 <petern> Uh... why would it do that? 18:41:53 <frosch> "support of PNG compressed OpenType embedded bitmaps" 18:41:59 <petern> o_O 18:43:12 <frosch> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/freetype/freetype/-/blob/master/CMakeLists.txt#L189 <- apparently there is zlib, bzip2 and png compression around 18:45:21 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PatrickJosh commented on issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion 'fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 18:46:59 <frosch> well, no idea then 🙂 18:47:28 <petern> libsystemd, let's just blame Lennart 18:51:56 <andythenorth> "cargoflow_graph_tuning" 18:51:58 <andythenorth> hmm 18:52:59 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024030844245000302/unknown.png 18:52:59 <andythenorth> let's try some of that 18:56:12 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PatrickJosh commented on issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion 'fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 18:57:27 <frosch> is "machine elements" a dead end? 18:59:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/e5203f34092903693276b76f5c09bf00530e025f 18:59:36 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:03:06 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd 19:05:20 <andythenorth> frosch: will go for export 19:05:31 <andythenorth> I am going to wormhole cargos that go to ports 19:05:37 <andythenorth> should give graphviz an easier time 19:09:54 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: speaking of 90s music, dj last night was playing an italo-disco remix of fatboy slim 19:12:44 <andythenorth> ideal 19:16:23 <supermop_toil> i should try current firs 19:17:13 <andythenorth> I am about to ruin Steeltown 19:17:24 <andythenorth> might be FIRS 5 when I've finished these tweaks 19:18:10 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024037182920458332/unknown.png 19:18:10 <andythenorth> ok wormholing the bulk terminal / wharf inputs does improve the layout a bit 19:18:17 <andythenorth> I need to add boxes for those cargos 19:20:42 <frosch> you can add "constraint=false" to edges to make then not affect the positioning 19:20:57 <frosch> instead of the wormholing 19:24:54 <andythenorth> I'll try it 19:27:02 <andythenorth> think I tried it last time I was tuning the graph 🙂 19:27:11 <andythenorth> it has....results 19:27:16 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024039470833598524/unknown.png 19:33:04 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:36:38 <frosch> maybe you need multiple graphs per economy 19:36:52 <frosch> one with ports only, one without ports, ... 19:37:19 <andythenorth> what about one per cargo? 19:37:29 <andythenorth> and one showing the sub-graph for cargos and industries 😛 19:37:32 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 19:37:35 <frosch> you have those in-game 19:37:40 <andythenorth> 🙂 19:37:54 <andythenorth> I was going to suggest a mini-map link also 😛 19:38:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 19:38:20 <frosch> how about a gs which suggests routes? 19:38:32 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 19:38:37 <andythenorth> 😛 19:38:47 <andythenorth> the previous graph was tuned to this, which is 'good enough' https://grf.farm/firs/4.15.1/html/economies.html#steeltown 19:38:56 <andythenorth> does the job 19:39:13 <andythenorth> the font is a bit small on my screen, but eh 19:39:47 <frosch> i wonder whether there is a better svg viewer meanwhile 19:39:53 <frosch> this one is still randomly stuck 19:39:56 <andythenorth> yup 19:40:04 <andythenorth> I upgraded it earlier this week to see if that helped 19:40:06 <andythenorth> it didn't 19:41:08 <frosch> did you consider electro town economy? same vehicle cargo in the end, but battery stuff before 19:41:33 <andythenorth> I did wonder about it 19:41:35 <frosch> lots of copper and cobalt 19:41:44 <andythenorth> this one is very peak fossil fuels 19:41:59 <andythenorth> lithium mines 19:42:50 <frosch> lithium is so weird.. it's not rare, yet noone needed it in the past 19:43:40 <frosch> what is the engine plant doing with sand? 19:43:43 <andythenorth> casting 19:44:03 <andythenorth> strictly they try and recycle the foundry sand, but gameplay 19:44:43 <andythenorth> a lot of stuff is going to town at the end 19:44:55 <andythenorth> for which I need to make FIRS GS actually do something 19:45:06 <andythenorth> even if it's just award random encouragement awards 19:45:07 <frosch> but crankshafts are forged, not casted 19:45:20 <andythenorth> 'gameplay' 19:45:31 <andythenorth> they can all get put together in the assembly plant 😛 19:45:44 <andythenorth> I did try adding screws and bolts and stuff, but it just doesn't work 19:46:22 <andythenorth> I keep making it more realistic, then reversing, to get good cargo splits 19:46:52 <andythenorth> hmm FIRS GS 19:47:05 <frosch> maybe the electrical parts supply could stall every now and then for a few months 19:47:22 <andythenorth> supply chain simulator 19:47:27 <andythenorth> GS 19:47:40 <andythenorth> the problem with the GS is that I got completely distracted by placing pylons 19:50:45 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Bouke commented on issue #9876: [Crash]: OpenTTD crashed on MacOS with 32bpp baseset due to touchbar https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/9876 20:03:39 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:04:02 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:19:55 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1024052723953438850/unknown.png 20:20:03 <andythenorth> doesn't actually improve the layout...yet 20:20:48 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 20:31:13 *** xordspar0 has joined #openttd 20:42:02 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:42:42 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:51:35 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] zachtyson opened pull request #10054: Added widget showing company slots remaining https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10054 20:53:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on pull request #10054: Added widget showing company slots remaining https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10054#issuecomment-1258621004 20:56:32 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 20:57:17 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 20:58:22 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:03:39 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 21:04:25 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 21:15:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PatrickJosh commented on issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion 'fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 21:15:41 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PatrickJosh closed issue #10053: [Crash]: Game does not start: `fccache.c:808: FcCacheFini: Assertion 'fcCacheChains[i] == NULL' failed.` https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10053 21:19:28 <andythenorth> probably not this 😛 https://grf.farm/firs/steeltown-end-game-lolz/html/economies.html#steeltown 21:19:31 <andythenorth> silly 21:21:46 <frosch> well... is it time to drop the graph and replace it with a table? industries in rows, cargos in columns? "IN"/"OUT" in cells? 21:22:15 <frosch> certainly would not look as fancy 21:25:02 <andythenorth> nah 🙂 21:25:44 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:28:44 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:28:51 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 21:28:55 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:28:59 <andythenorth> I will be able to tweak it https://grf.farm/firs/steeltown-end-game/html/economies.html#steeltown 21:29:14 <andythenorth> I think maybe the town industries need moved to an entirely separate graph 21:29:24 <andythenorth> I ca