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02:20:55 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:24:22 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:42:02 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 04:37:26 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 04:50:47 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 05:12:38 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Bouke updated pull request #10071: Change: Don't strip symbols from bundles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10071 05:47:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 05:48:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 06:18:54 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:39:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:14:05 <NGC3982> bigyihsuan: the same for me 08:14:49 <NGC3982> im not sure how it works now, but if you searched for openttd in the steam it suggested factorio 08:15:11 <NGC3982> i guess algorithmically 08:16:29 <NGC3982> < wallabra> OpenTTD is a gateway drug into ______ <- kerbal space program, factorio, cities skylines, stellaris, oxygen not included, space haven, stardew valley, heroes iii and banished 08:17:00 <NGC3982> most of these are very far from each other, but it's almost always at least one favourite among them in openttd players 08:17:04 <NGC3982> at least in my findings 08:40:32 <petern> I never got into any of those. 08:49:49 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 09:04:43 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 09:57:15 <pickpacket> me neither 10:13:44 <petern> (I bought some with the intention of, but no...) 10:14:34 <petern> Minecraft, on the other hand, god that was a time-sink. 10:15:25 <LordAro> AoE2 & Minecraft have historically been my massive gaming timesinks 10:16:14 <LordAro> I've played a lot of KSP, Factorio & CoD4 in my time too 10:16:25 <petern> Doom, Quake and Unreal Tournament back in the day. 10:17:12 <petern> And Duke Nukem 3D of course 10:17:21 <petern> And Civilization (the original) 10:18:00 <petern> My favourite pasttime is trying to remember all the games I used to play and then forgot about... 10:19:33 <LordAro> oh yes, Civ2 as well 10:19:39 <LordAro> Civ2 best Civ 10:19:52 <LordAro> (it is not a coincidence that it was my first Civ) 10:20:28 <petern> It was definitely better than Civ1, but I don't think I played as much of it. 10:20:42 <LordAro> I have extremely fond memories of prolonging the WW2 scenario into the 70s and trying to crush the Russians (as England) 10:20:49 <LordAro> difficult, as it turns out 10:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i think civ2 and civ4 i played most 10:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> out of the civ series i mean 10:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't played much of civ since i found eu4 10:56:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 approved pull request #10071: Change: Don't strip symbols from bundles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10071#pullrequestreview-1134293016 10:56:49 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 merged pull request #10071: Change: Don't strip symbols from bundles https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10071 12:16:32 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 12:16:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 12:23:09 *** tokai has quit IRC 13:14:50 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 13:25:53 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Kuhnovic commented on pull request #10034: Feature: Button to honk a vehicle's horn https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10034#issuecomment-1271591583 15:00:25 <petern> Shoop da woop, new cycling shoes 😄 15:00:49 <pickpacket> Yay! 15:01:04 <pickpacket> do you bike much? 15:01:12 <petern> Only a little bit. 15:01:42 <petern> 8,950 km so far this year. 15:13:22 <petern> Alright, how do I play with timetables and try to spread vehicles out? 15:19:02 <LordAro> i believe you need to ctrl+click something 15:21:07 <petern> I wonder what 😄 15:21:55 <petern> Heh, "Google Pixel Watch" with Fitbit... sounds okay... "24 hour battery" oh no, fuck that. 15:23:14 <LordAro> hmm? 15:28:08 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 15:33:45 *** gelignite has quit IRC 16:19:29 *** crem2 has quit IRC 16:28:41 *** supermop_toil has joined #openttd 16:29:53 <petern> Oh right, it's pissing down 😦 16:43:13 <petern> Urgh, our fallback glyph system is... suboptimal. 16:43:26 <petern> Missing a single glyph? Sure, we'll completely drop that font. 16:46:44 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:47:16 <andythenorth> high standards 16:47:19 <andythenorth> all or nothing 🙂 16:48:11 <LordAro> damn right 16:49:37 *** crem2 has joined #openttd 16:53:02 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd 16:58:48 *** wallabra has quit IRC 16:58:48 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra 17:09:02 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:18:23 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:19:26 *** wallabra_ has joined #openttd 17:24:12 *** wallabra has quit IRC 17:24:12 *** wallabra_ is now known as wallabra 18:08:06 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 18:33:04 <andythenorth> also...yo 18:46:34 * pickpacket waves 18:47:10 <petern> particles 18:48:52 <supermop_toil> yo 18:49:24 <petern> Hmm, this fallback font is quite nice, except it's monospaced. 19:02:58 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] DorpsGek pushed 1 commits to master https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/commit/c482f05616be509409451574bfb4590ce8dcbeec 19:02:59 <DorpsGek> - Update: Translations from eints (by translators) 19:22:36 <wallabra> What if sometimes, industries that are well supplied, have "settlements" formed around them? Tiny cities that are initially unnamed, and after a certain threshold of people gain a name. 19:23:15 <wallabra> It would make sense if that name is somehow vaguely related to the industry, and maybe the industry would rename itself to match the settlement's? 19:37:45 <pickpacket> Start accepting passengers, mail, and goods? 19:39:44 <supermop_toil> wallabra: there is a bit of a chicken and egg issue there 19:40:54 <supermop_toil> as you usually dont build a factory unless there is at least some workforce nearby already 19:41:19 <supermop_toil> but then a workforce doesn't relocate somewhere unless there is a supply of jobs there 19:53:01 <wallabra> supermop_toil, yes but map generation will always have some initial industries and cities so it's not really a problem 19:53:24 <wallabra> the settlement would not be creating workforce where there is none; it could be seen as splitting off cities that are further away, like as if to shorten the commute 19:55:19 <supermop_toil> i just mean there is a bit of a rabbit hole to chase down 20:10:41 <wallabra> yeah but it's a fun one 20:10:49 <wallabra> if you have the organization to keep the notes 20:15:41 <petern> LordAro, Ctrl-Click on "Start date" 20:16:12 <glx[d]> it goes boom ? 20:16:24 <petern> (Which is conspicuous with its lowercase d, when every other button is title-case. 20:19:32 <petern> And yeah, boom. They are given timetable spacing, but not in an order that's useful. 20:21:03 <petern> Send to depot, assign start dates, then manually start them in the right order. Works but is clumsy. I'm missing something 20:21:50 <petern> Yup, I'm missing something. Got to reset their order position too. 20:23:10 <andythenorth> does it actually work? 20:23:13 <andythenorth> I never saw it work 20:24:18 <petern> Not really. 20:24:30 <petern> If they get out of sync it's messy 20:25:04 <andythenorth> the JGRPP version works, if someone explains which buttons to click 20:25:16 <andythenorth> there is a PR somewhere for another version that *nearly* works 20:25:26 <petern> It works but it's micromanaging 20:25:51 <andythenorth> you're supposed to reset it every time you add vehicles or something 20:25:55 <andythenorth> and if there is traffic 20:26:18 <andythenorth> or if loading is taking too long 20:26:27 <andythenorth> basically, as far as I can tell, it's a tool to make you click on things 20:26:53 <andythenorth> most of the problems it's supposed to solve are fixed by 'turning off cargodist' 20:27:22 <petern> The "auto-filled" timetable has the issue that it is never possible to make up time if it's running late 20:27:29 <andythenorth> yes 20:27:34 <petern> And there's no option to delay for a cycle 20:27:40 <andythenorth> I have asked how that's supposed to work, but apparently it's fine 20:27:57 <andythenorth> you're supposed to check timetable performance frequently and adjust your trip times 20:28:06 <petern> So you need to manually extended the travelling time to allow for delays 20:28:24 <andythenorth> yeah, you have to pad 20:28:29 <petern> And perhaps add a stop at a depot to allow out-of-order vehicles to get back in order. 20:28:32 <andythenorth> which you're supposed to provide via manual adjustment 20:28:49 <andythenorth> I think if you do 'send to depot' to replace vehicles, it goes to shit also 🙂 20:29:14 <andythenorth> not wanting to denigrate anyone's work 🙂 20:29:20 <andythenorth> just not our finest collective achievement 20:29:32 <andythenorth> I don't supposed we can say TTDP invented it? 20:29:51 <petern> I think last time I mentioned this thing someone said that the alternative "did all the work" for you or something, and that was bad. 20:32:26 <petern> Okay, you CAN'T make them wait in a depot 😦 20:33:25 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:34:02 <petern> "Reset Late Counter" will guarantee they're no longer synced 20:35:44 <andythenorth> compile JGRPP 😛 20:35:49 <andythenorth> then ask which buttons to press 20:35:50 <petern> Nooo 20:35:53 <andythenorth> then observe it working 20:37:45 <petern> Double-clicking a go-to stop should open up the Time input, not deselect and reselect. 20:38:19 <petern> Hmm, and Travel time. That has the additional option of a speed limit because why not... 20:38:40 <andythenorth> sometimes people suggest good gameplay ideas, but I fear the UI we'd build 😛 20:38:47 <andythenorth> the track record is 'interesting' 20:39:29 *** _aD has joined #openttd 20:39:51 <petern> Good point. At least the timetable UI still works (as well as it did) with chunky bevels 20:40:13 <andythenorth> pls send your PR 😛 20:40:22 <andythenorth> my bevels are unwantedly skinny 20:41:06 <petern> I would but it's horrifying. 20:41:10 <petern> Too much distraction. 20:41:54 <andythenorth> hmm 20:42:02 <andythenorth> I was doing Iron Euro Horse 20:42:05 <andythenorth> now I rebuilt all of FIRS 20:42:07 <andythenorth> distractions 20:42:31 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 20:42:43 <petern> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1028044727666352128/unknown.png 20:42:43 <petern> [az]Base winning here... 20:43:29 <andythenorth> nice dynamite 20:43:35 <andythenorth> oops forgot to build statues in my game 20:43:47 <petern> Having bigger sprites in place of the standard sprites was never a good idea. 20:43:47 <andythenorth> what do they add, 10%? 20:44:16 <andythenorth> maybe I just have FIRS add 10% 20:44:20 <andythenorth> statues are dumb AF 20:44:48 <JGR> I could never bring myself to build a statue to myself, it just feels a bit too North Korean to me 20:46:33 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: scheduling works 20:46:44 <supermop_toil> you have to start the trains in the right order 20:46:49 <supermop_toil> bt it definately works 20:46:56 * andythenorth trying to remember how ratings cb works 20:47:02 <petern> It does, but it's so fragile and so many little things you need to get right. 20:47:57 <supermop_toil> yeah its not the easiest thing to use but i've be regularly using it to do what it can do for over 10 years 20:48:09 <andythenorth> "The station rating callback is quite complicated and deserves some detailed explanation. " 20:48:10 <andythenorth> no shit 20:48:46 <supermop_toil> so categorically saying it just doesn't work is not particularly helpful 20:48:56 <andythenorth> oh, look here's the one that Yexo made https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/commit/6d72b429491bfd0c97211535a0e77f0088e10d2b 20:49:27 <andythenorth> in FIRS 😛 20:49:30 <andythenorth> I deleted it 20:49:31 <supermop_toil> a few things that are counter intuitive is the depot order thing 20:49:31 <andythenorth> silly me 20:50:06 <supermop_toil> that highest number gets soonest start date, so you have to release from the depot manually in reverse order 20:50:14 <petern> 11 years... 20:50:32 <andythenorth> not sure I can just do 'add 10%' 20:50:38 <andythenorth> or whatever statues do 20:51:05 <andythenorth> I think I have to replicate the rating algorithm in grf if I want to do that 20:51:18 <andythenorth> hmm...patched client? 😛 20:51:39 <supermop_toil> but if you have all the vehicles already out and about, it does try to put them in order based on the order they are driving around in 20:52:35 <JGR> If anything at all happens after the moment you push the button, it's unable to adapt or recover 20:53:20 <supermop_toil> you can manually adjust things or send vehicles to depot to try to get them back in order 20:53:39 <supermop_toil> its a lot of work but its not like every single timetable is always doomed to fail 20:54:06 <andythenorth> timetables seem a bit like block-signals-are-faster 20:54:43 <andythenorth> if what we wanted was auto-separate, we have the wrong tool 😛 20:54:47 <supermop_toil> idk i guess i have to make andy a save with a timetable in it? 20:54:55 <supermop_toil> i don't want auto separate 20:55:00 <andythenorth> right 20:55:14 <andythenorth> that's the exact point I think 20:55:29 <supermop_toil> i want a train showing up at pretty but x time, and every y days thereafter 20:55:34 <andythenorth> if the goal is spacing out buses in a town, then timetables don't work 20:55:57 <supermop_toil> i mean they do tho 20:55:59 <andythenorth> if the goal is working around that partial load isn't possible, then timetables work fine 20:56:55 <andythenorth> 🙂 "timetables don't work in vanilla" is the #1 reason players give for using JGRPP 20:56:59 <supermop_toil> they also work reasonable ok for some simulation of bus route 10 comes at the top of the hour and bus route 20 comes at xx:15 and xx:45 20:57:27 <supermop_toil> i mean i believe that many players find timetables difficult, 20:57:37 <andythenorth> I've tried auto-sep in JGRPP and it is quite a lot closer to 'just works' 20:58:01 <supermop_toil> i don't really agree with "you dont know what you are talking about and you are lying to us claiming that timetables work" 20:58:20 <JGR> Actually doing clock face timetabling and similar in vanilla is sufficiently cumbersome that it's not worth it for ordinary players 20:58:28 <supermop_toil> which is sort of what it feels like everytime the topic comes up 20:59:07 <andythenorth> that's why I think it's like 'block signals are faster' 20:59:16 <supermop_toil> and i don't know what to say - i use it in every game i've played for years and it does what i expect it to do, even if i wish it had better functionality 20:59:16 <andythenorth> 'faster at what?' is the question there 20:59:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:59:46 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1028049016283463700/unknown.png 20:59:46 <andythenorth> when I tried this 20:59:57 <andythenorth> after discord had explained to me why I was clicking the wrong buttons 20:59:59 <andythenorth> it just worked 21:00:08 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: the block signal thing is generally met with "the people saying that don't know what they are talking about" 21:00:16 <andythenorth> yeah but that's wrong 21:00:20 <andythenorth> block signals are faster 21:00:30 <andythenorth> they show green, not red 21:00:34 <andythenorth> and green is faster than red 21:00:57 <supermop_toil> so saying timetables are like that is like saying "supermop doesn't know what he's talking about, his claims of being able to use timetables are deluded" 21:01:00 <andythenorth> when people say timetables don't work they mean they don't do 1 click 'auto separation' 21:01:24 <andythenorth> no more deluded than everyone telling me refit-any-available works 🙂 21:01:28 <andythenorth> when I have saves showing it doesn't 21:01:33 <JGR> We're not saying that it's impossible, but that it's too difficult and arcane for normal users 21:01:36 <andythenorth> but always my saves have unreleased grfs 😦 21:02:01 <petern> I'm not sure I'm a normal user 😄 21:02:06 <andythenorth> me neither 21:02:12 <andythenorth> abnormal users 21:03:46 <supermop_toil> i'd also say that adaptive auto separation also doesn't work as people might expect it to, at least in the form it worked last time i tried it 21:04:08 <andythenorth> I tried to break the one in JGRPP 21:04:33 <andythenorth> there's an alternative patch that actually had a better effect visually, but I broke it quite quickly 😛 21:04:52 <supermop_toil> if i build my busses thinking they will come every 30 minutes but my schedule was too optimistic, in a regular time timetable all my buses are late 21:05:09 <supermop_toil> in an adaptive timetable suddely they are coming every 45 minutes 21:05:26 <andythenorth> bus auto-separation doesn't really need magic 21:05:36 <andythenorth> you just route them through a single tile stop with 'wait 15 days' or so 21:05:45 <andythenorth> and then they all queue up there, and release on a set frequency 21:05:48 <andythenorth> same result 21:05:49 <supermop_toil> i mean a 'route" or "service" would be nice 21:06:04 <andythenorth> people seem to not like the 'feed hopper' approach 😛 21:06:04 <supermop_toil> and i think some patch has that? 21:06:50 <JGR> Given that road vehicles will eventually drive through each other, that can also go wrong 21:06:52 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: you need a tram, or long bus for that, and a one-way road 21:07:09 <JGR> There's also ships where that doesn;t work at all 21:07:10 <supermop_toil> also what JGR said... 21:07:32 <andythenorth> yeah ships are what I tried, and buses 21:08:05 <andythenorth> JGR: I toggle on both 'Automate' and 'Auto Separation' ? 21:08:12 <andythenorth> but don't touch 'Auto fill'? 21:08:21 <supermop_toil> i'd like to be able to say bus route 11 or express train to luddington starts every hour at xx:30 21:08:36 <andythenorth> you need real time departure boards in JGRPP 21:08:44 <andythenorth> there is a whole discord about that 21:08:51 <supermop_toil> and what ever hardware on the orderlist is at the start station goes and does it 21:09:03 <JGR> andythenorth: Yes, that's the easiest and simplest way 21:09:14 <andythenorth> there is a whole alternative way of playing with yards and daily schedules 21:09:22 <andythenorth> so you have peak hours and so forth 21:09:35 <supermop_toil> so you maybe have some waiting in a yard or depot or just at a spare platform 21:09:45 <andythenorth> yes 21:10:00 <andythenorth> there's a lot of trying to tune things to 30 minute schedules or so I think also 21:10:08 <andythenorth> very Swiss 21:10:13 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: not even getting to peak hours, just a decoupling of the timetable and the hardware 21:10:24 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1028051695181246574/unknown.png 21:10:24 <andythenorth> yeah this just works 21:10:43 <andythenorth> I never figured out what the white labels do or how to turn them off 21:11:02 <JGR> Just about any algorithm at all will work when you've only got two bus stops close to each other 😛 21:11:16 <andythenorth> oh the transparency window has got rid of those white labels 21:11:29 <supermop_toil> like i want a train to start this service every x days.. ok train one is the one at the station so it will do it 21:11:56 <andythenorth> so first available unit gets the diagram? 21:12:28 <supermop_toil> maybe train 1 gets delayed and doesn't complete it's route in time for the next turn, so train 13 takes it instead 21:12:35 <supermop_toil> andythenorth: yes 21:13:12 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:13:18 <andythenorth> it is more pleasing watching separated buses drive around 21:13:27 <supermop_toil> and if there are multiple waiting to take it, it goes by FIFO or train number or whatever 21:14:09 <supermop_toil> i sometimes mix a timetable with alternating long and short or whatever trains 21:14:21 <supermop_toil> which would no longer be possible, but that's ok 21:14:54 <supermop_toil> usually when cascading old stock to some other line that gets misfit hand-me-downs 21:15:24 <supermop_toil> E trains at world train center do that 21:16:25 <supermop_toil> sometimes they are didn't finish mopping the one that was going to go next, or the motorman ran off to pee, so they send out the one that just came in 21:17:52 *** WormnestAndroid has quit IRC 21:17:55 *** Tirili has joined #openttd 21:23:19 <andythenorth> hmm new FIRS ports are too hard to increase production 21:23:29 <andythenorth> bit yak-shaving-ish 21:25:48 *** xordspar0 has left #openttd 21:28:24 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1028056222483623976/unknown.png 21:28:24 <andythenorth> oh my ship is stuck 😄 21:28:35 <andythenorth> I guess that happened 21:28:57 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1028056361428320336/unknown.png 21:28:57 <andythenorth> fixed it 21:39:26 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 21:44:22 *** Flygon has quit IRC 21:45:02 <andythenorth> lol the cumulative effect of building statues is quite high 21:45:22 <andythenorth> 10% more cargo, repeated through 3 or 4 industries in the chain 22:27:45 <petern> Nice 22:28:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:31:38 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:44:44 *** WormnestAndroid has joined #openttd 23:09:38 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 23:39:00 <glx[d]> hmm PF is supposed to prevent these stuck ships thing