Times are UTC Toggle Colours
01:14:47 *** Soni has quit IRC 01:42:14 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 01:56:40 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 01:57:12 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 01:58:25 *** Kitrana has quit IRC 02:01:13 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 02:34:47 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:38:10 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:57:43 *** Soni has joined #openttd 03:34:40 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 03:47:26 *** pixel_snjy has joined #openttd 03:48:56 *** pixel_snjy has left #openttd 04:07:13 *** keoz has joined #openttd 04:15:48 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 04:15:48 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 04:22:47 *** tokai has quit IRC 05:32:38 <andythenorth> usually I can find an example in an existing GS 05:33:10 <andythenorth> these flags are too new for that 😛 05:48:21 <pickpacket> dP: is it even possible to run a deficit low enough to underflow without going bankrupt? 05:50:17 *** keoz has quit IRC 06:02:56 *** D-HUND is now known as debdog 07:08:52 <peter1138> Hmm. Selecting fallback font by "family, style" is gives me a sans-serif font for Chinese Simplified and a serif font for Chinese Traditional. Oy... 07:22:04 <peter1138> Searching for the heaviest weight is not ideal, as that may be bolder than bold... 07:22:55 *** keoz has joined #openttd 07:37:54 <dP> pickpacket: well, idk, they were for sure running deficit for 20 years 07:38:07 <dP> but it was not that big until it wasn't 07:38:21 <dP> missed the time yesterday, will start replay again 07:38:37 <dP> hopefully it'll show something 07:40:32 *** keoz has quit IRC 08:00:57 <pickpacket> I thought you went bankrupt after a few months of deficit 08:01:15 <pickpacket> how do get a replay of the game? 08:15:00 <peter1138> Save every issued network command 08:16:00 <peter1138> (And make sure you play it back in exactly the same version) 08:19:45 <pickpacket> oh! didn't know it was a multiplayer game 08:20:34 <peter1138> Well, you can remove the word "network" and it's the same principle. 08:20:55 <peter1138> Commands are issued at specific points, so if you record them, you can replay them. 08:21:51 *** shoter has joined #openttd 08:21:51 <shoter> I am a developer of admin port library for OpenTTD and I am wondering if there is any workflow to know in advance that admin port network version is going to change. 08:21:51 <shoter> For example I've just found by accident that this PR - https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10709 changes structure of some packets and makes protocol backwards incompatible. 08:21:51 <shoter> Is there a way to know in advance when NETWORK_GAME_ADMIN_VERSION changes? 08:22:21 <pickpacket> peter1138: how do you record those commands? 08:25:47 <LordAro> pickpacket: desync debug mode is the vanilla way of doing it 08:26:00 <LordAro> i believe dP has some sort of custom implementation though 08:30:42 <LordAro> shoter: as far as i know, the answer is "no". admin port format is strongly linked to the command format... which is very version specific 08:30:46 <LordAro> we're aware this isn't great 08:35:16 <pickpacket> follow PR discussions on github, maybe? 08:35:48 <LordAro> that's a terrible answer 08:36:12 <pickpacket> it is 08:36:26 <pickpacket> but based on what you said I assume it's the best way 08:36:37 <m3henry> jank but improved answer, pull the commit history and grep the log for changes to that line 08:38:45 <LordAro> m3henry: NETWORK_GAME_ADMIN_VERSION isn't the only indicator of compatibility though 08:38:55 <LordAro> that just defines the format version 08:38:58 <LordAro> iirc 08:39:21 <m3henry> what are the other ones? 08:39:32 <LordAro> well there isn't one 08:39:49 <LordAro> it's just "does the function signature of any of these functions change" 08:40:47 <dP> yeah, technically any change to any command parameters affects admin protocol in some way 08:40:58 <dP> though I think there was a warning somewhere that they're not stable 08:41:09 <shoter> I did not need any particular change on my end usually if packets remain the same. It is first time in few years when I am forced to make a change to accomodate new version of admin port 08:44:26 <dP> oh, 10709 changed command enum, yeah, that's kind of annoying... 08:49:36 <truebrain> shoter: honestly, we should have changed the admin-version; seems nobody realised that at the time 🙂 08:49:54 <truebrain> owh, we did 08:49:57 <truebrain> w00p, we did realise \o/ 08:50:00 <shoter> Yeah it was changed 08:50:04 <shoter> so at least that's good 😄 08:50:04 <truebrain> sometimes I am amazed .... 08:50:11 <peter1138> Huh, why is this if condition not working :/ 08:50:42 <truebrain> we once tried a maillist to inform people, but as we change things so rarely, it never really worked 08:50:48 <peter1138> `if (href) { console.log(!href); }` is logging `false` 08:51:12 <truebrain> be more explicit in your if-statement! 🙂 08:51:19 <peter1138> Yeah it would log false... 08:51:45 <truebrain> like `if (!!href)` 😛 08:51:50 <truebrain> (which is terribly Javascript btw) 08:52:06 <peter1138> Okay! 08:52:20 <truebrain> `if (1) console.log(!1) ` logs false too btw 🙂 08:52:22 <peter1138> It seems the value is "undefined" instead of being actually undefined. 08:53:44 <peter1138> Yeah, but test of the if was wrong, and yet I noticed that just after posting it... 08:54:04 <truebrain> we are awesome rubber duckies 🙂 08:54:16 <peter1138> So it's "undefined" but not undefined. Great, javascript... 08:54:57 <truebrain> be be explicit, be explicit! 😛 It is more common to do things like `if (href === undefined)` or `if (href !== undefined)` .. the `if (href)` is just not that common to use, honestly 🙂 08:55:24 <truebrain> I only know of Python that has `if href:` strongly defined .. most other languages have weird edgecases 😛 08:56:50 <peter1138> That's what I mean. `if (href === undefined)` isn't matching, but `if (href == 'undefined')` is 08:57:36 <truebrain> lol .. that is just .. annoying 😄 08:57:44 <shoter> truebrain: Btw why are people doing in OpenTTD code `!!boolean_value`? 08:57:44 <shoter> Is it to ensure that `!!boolean_value` has either `0` or `1`? Because `true` can be anything else than `0` 08:58:06 <shoter> I was just so suprised by such if statement that I tried to understand why is it being done in such way 08:58:08 <pickpacket> Yes 08:58:23 <pickpacket> it’s a common thing in C as well 08:58:33 <truebrain> it is old C in most cases; these days we tend to be more explicit 08:58:44 <truebrain> as changing "some integer" to a boolean is rarely a good idea 🙂 08:58:56 <truebrain> (there are exceptions; but back in the C-day it was much more common) 08:59:36 <m3henry> A colleague of mine had never seen it before last week, which I found rather suprising 09:00:01 <m3henry> He's not a greybeard, but definitely a fair few years my senior 09:00:14 <shoter> In my field of work (C#) I've never seen such statement 09:01:22 <truebrain> shoter: and keep it that way 😛 09:01:33 <andythenorth> lol if only I'd cargo-culted my own test code 😛 https://github.com/andythenorth/firs/blob/gs-is-real/src/gs/gs_templates/temp_prototyping.pynut#L12 09:04:38 <pickpacket> ”pynut”? 09:04:52 <peter1138> And of course, it's because I stored undefined in a place (dataset) that only understands strings. 09:06:14 <pickpacket> m3henry, shoter: I saw it a few times in old C projects some 15 years ago. It’s not something you do in modern languages like C#, or modern projects in any language for that matter 09:11:30 *** m3henry has quit IRC 09:18:59 <andythenorth> pickpacket: python that generates squirrel 09:20:44 <truebrain> nuts man 09:43:07 <peter1138> "Oh cool, this nearly works now" "Oh crap, keyboard input..." 09:43:48 <peter1138> Fuck browsers, I shouldn't have to implement nice UI myself 😭 09:46:41 * pickpacket pats peter1138 09:47:08 <pickpacket> https://floss.social/@tinyrabbit/110606541593748309 09:47:39 <pickpacket> my friends keep telling me I should get a new computer. I don't understand why. 09:49:48 <peter1138> Being able to use a good development environment simplifies 1, 2 and 3 in one go. 09:54:47 <pickpacket> of course it does :D 09:55:02 <peter1138> Ah yes, and `<optgroup>` doesn't support nesting. 10:33:50 <Eddi|zuHause> ask andy about compile times 10:34:23 <andythenorth> cycle times are one of the highest impact items for development 10:34:51 <andythenorth> some programmers are able to hold all the state in their head, and only need to compile once an hour 10:35:10 <andythenorth> so a 10 minute compile is fine, coffee break, eye rest, thinking time 10:35:57 <andythenorth> but for anything with interfaces, e.g. network code, remote data fetch/store, and above all UI 10:36:05 <andythenorth> rapid cycles are essential 10:36:42 <andythenorth> oops, I did serious, sorry 😦 10:36:58 <andythenorth> peter1138: selects are horrific, but at least they're simple 😛 10:37:12 <peter1138> They're too simple, that's the problem. 10:38:17 <peter1138> Well, not long til breaklunchfast. 10:38:35 <andythenorth> I had cheese and a orange 10:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> could be worse, could be fastlunchbreak 11:31:54 <peter1138> Normally :/ 11:32:08 *** keoz has joined #openttd 11:33:22 <peter1138> Alright, I have sausage roll and... a salad. 11:46:47 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] Notts90 commented on issue #10832: Licensing issue - GPL violation by chinese on Apple Store https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/10832 12:17:28 <pickpacket> what do you guys do for a living? 12:18:10 <pickpacket> I'm a devops engineer, whatever that means. Today it means that I'm trying to stay awake watching Azure classes. And they use *powershell*... eeeewwwww... 12:24:37 <peter1138> I wish I knew 12:34:49 <pickpacket> lol 12:35:09 <pickpacket> peter1138: full time OpenTTD dev? ;) 12:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is the definition of "a salad"? a mix of foods that isn't cooked? 12:37:14 <truebrain> something that suggests healthy 12:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i know plenty of "salads" that are probably not "healthy" 12:38:11 <peter1138> For me it's something that has lettuce of some variety as its basis. 12:38:20 <peter1138> But, yeah "pasta salad" is anything but. 12:40:29 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, the pasta better be cooked before being mixed in :p 12:42:57 <peter1138> One would hope. 12:52:12 <shoter> pickpacket: C# Dev 13:00:15 <andythenorth> ham salad 13:21:07 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we have this "meat salad": https://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/989911204216460/Fleischsalat-wie-vom-Metzger.html 13:29:21 <peter1138> Looks similar (but not the same) to carbonara 13:31:16 <Rubidium_> there 2023-06-26T22:43:01 <truebrain> funny, it works when I test it locally 😄 22:45:34 <truebrain> I see zero reason why this wouldn't work on production .. lol 22:47:15 *** kamnet has joined #openttd 22:47:15 <kamnet> _jgr_: I was as well. I was surprised nobody else snagged kamnet - in Asia it's a hugely popular name. 22:47:21 <truebrain> now I am a bit afraid what kind of Discord weirdness this is ... 22:47:39 <truebrain> hmm ... can I get my test-bot in here for a bit .. I guess I can .. 22:49:28 <truebrain> right ... 22:49:31 <truebrain> that failed 😄 22:50:52 <truebrain> you can't have two bots with the same identifier active at the same time, ofc 🙂 22:53:46 *** Soni has quit IRC 22:54:49 *** Soni has joined #openttd 22:56:08 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 22:58:37 <truebrain> meh; in general this username has been a bit of an issue ofc ... let me try to make a change, and we can see if we like it or not 23:00:19 <truebrain> owh, I am a peanut .. I was testing the wrong thing.. haha; owh well, nevertheless .. 23:00:54 <truebrain> indeed, I cannot join IRC with a `_` as start of my nickname 23:03:48 <truebrain> dwfreed: turns out, it is not allowed in the ident 23:04:39 <truebrain> `(Invalid username [~_test])` 23:04:43 <truebrain> you get when you try 🙂 23:05:23 *** glx has joined #openttd 23:05:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 23:05:25 <truebrain> and this IRC library uses your nickname as username, which seems like a sane thing to do 23:05:29 <truebrain> but ... yeah ... you can't 😄 23:05:46 <truebrain> luckily for me, there is another bug in my code, which prevents these connections from retrying 23:06:29 *** glx is now known as _glx 23:07:20 <_glx> ah yeah even with this alternate nick I still use glx as username 23:07:22 <truebrain> so basically, in `USER`, it cannot start with a `_` .. I wonder if there are other rules .. 23:09:56 *** _glx has quit IRC 23:12:10 <truebrain> from what I can read in the RFC, it should be allowed, to have a username start with a `_` 23:12:16 <truebrain> seems usernames are more relaxed than nicknames even 23:13:45 <truebrain> hmm, no, seems the specs are just a bit ambigious, and they don't actually define the limitations of `username` (or `user`, depending on which RFC you look at) 23:13:50 <truebrain> great! So I don't know what to filter for 🙂 23:14:07 <truebrain> dwfreed: would you happen to have an idea what is allowed and what is not? 23:14:30 <truebrain> is stripping out `_` alone enough? 23:19:15 <truebrain> I think you can have more than one user with the same username on IRC 23:19:43 <truebrain> yeah, DorpsGek exists 3 times with the same username 23:20:50 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain opened pull request #194: fix(irc): usernames are not allowed to start with _ https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/194 23:21:57 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain opened pull request #195: fix(irc): crash when server disconnects before first full connect https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/195 23:22:26 <truebrain> could really use some expert input on #194, as I am rather unsure if there are additional constraints 🙂 23:22:59 <truebrain> In other news, for when I am done with the infra migration, I think I found a nice way to get us all back our correct names (`TrueBrain`, `glx`, `peter1138`, etc). 23:23:02 <peter1138> "x=x" vs "x = x" bugs me 😉 23:23:18 <truebrain> as on Discord we now have a concept called "global usernames" 23:23:25 <truebrain> peter1138: write an angry letter to Guido 😛 23:23:36 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] glx22 approved pull request #194: fix(irc): usernames are not allowed to start with _ https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/194#pullrequestreview-1499699123 23:24:28 <peter1138> Yeah, I figured it was a language constraint, as I can't imagine you doing that otherwise! 23:24:35 <truebrain> 🙂 23:25:30 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] glx22 approved pull request #195: fix(irc): crash when server disconnects before first full connect https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/195#pullrequestreview-1499700257 23:25:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain merged pull request #194: fix(irc): usernames are not allowed to start with _ https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/194 23:26:08 <truebrain> if there are more conditions, we will add them .. but let's first get everyone to talk on IRC again 😛 23:26:34 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain merged pull request #195: fix(irc): crash when server disconnects before first full connect https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/195 23:26:54 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain created new tag: v1.3.2 https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/releases/tag/v1.3.2 23:30:14 <truebrain> so bridge will reset in a sec .. let's hope everyone can read what _glx_ writes after 😛 23:31:54 <truebrain> not YET 😛 It is slow 🙂 23:32:09 <truebrain> just wait for the massive IRC disconnects 😄 23:33:33 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** olionkey[d] has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** shoter has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** peter1138 has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** dP has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** michi_cc[d] has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** sinas128 has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** jfs has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** emperorjake has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** kamnet has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** talltyler has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** truebrain has quit IRC 23:33:33 *** DorpsGek_v has quit IRC 23:33:49 *** DorpsGek_v has joined #openttd 23:33:54 *** truebrain has joined #openttd 23:33:54 <truebrain> right 23:34:05 <truebrain> talk ! TAAALLLKKK ! 😛 23:34:30 <truebrain> darn it ... still nothing? 23:34:32 <truebrain> wth 😛 23:37:52 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/team] glx22 commented on issue #432: [cy_GB] Translator access request https://github.com/OpenTTD/team/issues/432 23:38:01 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain opened pull request #196: fix(irc): also remove _ from username for puppets https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/196 23:38:06 <truebrain> developing this late is not smart 😛 23:38:20 <truebrain> I can't test this code currently, but "it looks fine" 🙂 23:39:55 <truebrain> and if the IRC ghost agrees with that statement, we are just going to roll it out to production and see what it does 🙂 23:40:05 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] glx22 approved pull request #196: fix(irc): also remove _ from username for puppets https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/196#pullrequestreview-1499709713 23:40:16 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain merged pull request #196: fix(irc): also remove _ from username for puppets https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/pull/196 23:40:29 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/dibridge] TrueBrain created new tag: v1.3.3 https://github.com/OpenTTD/dibridge/releases/tag/v1.3.3 23:41:24 <truebrain> so 5 more minutes _glx_ , and you should have a voice again 😛 23:42:13 <truebrain> what is funny is that highlights are translated to your IRC nick 23:42:17 <truebrain> but you just aren't there 😛 23:44:30 <truebrain> it will find a valid name 😉 23:45:09 <truebrain> yeah, and after that it starts to add numbers 23:45:12 <truebrain> it will find a valid name 🙂 23:45:46 <truebrain> on IRC it looks like I am talking to myself; a normal day in the office, basically 😛 23:45:50 *** DorpsGek_v has quit IRC 23:45:50 *** truebrain has quit IRC 23:46:05 *** DorpsGek_v has joined #openttd 23:46:11 *** truebrain has joined #openttd 23:46:11 <truebrain> right .. 23:46:13 <truebrain> how abou tnow? 23:46:32 <truebrain> think carefully about your first words 😄 23:46:33 *** _glx_ has joined #openttd 23:46:33 <_glx_> silent voice 23:46:39 <truebrain> there we go 23:46:41 <truebrain> good 🙂 23:46:54 <truebrain> stupid IRC and its little rules .... 23:47:17 <truebrain> right, way too late ... time to get some sleep! 23:47:52 <_glx_> oh but indeed `glx` as discord username would have been fine (it was fine with glx#7256) 23:48:27 <truebrain> the important thing is that you can talk with LordAro again 😄 23:48:40 <_glx_> and eddi 23:49:16 <_glx_> strange it was not noticed earlier 23:51:44 <truebrain> most talk is between Discord users these days .. so that might have been part of it 23:51:59 <_glx_> oh the restart of thursday killed me 23:52:03 <truebrain> but yeah .. you lost your voice on IRC 5 days ago .. sorry mate .. did not expect there to be different rules for `username` 😛 23:52:33 <_glx_> https://weblogs.openttd.org/openttd/2023/06/22.html#034522-35 <-- there 🙂 23:52:40 <truebrain> yup 23:52:43 <truebrain> #feelsbadbro 23:52:45 <truebrain> anyway, zzz