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#openttd 05:10:49 *** jeremy[m]1 has joined #openttd 05:13:33 *** Heiki[m] has joined #openttd 05:27:31 *** keikoz has quit IRC 05:44:31 *** igor[m] has joined #openttd 06:13:11 *** Rubidium_ has quit IRC 06:16:14 *** Rubidium has joined #openttd 06:16:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium 06:25:12 <andythenorth> definitely want build-while-paused for IRL 06:25:27 <andythenorth> woke up at 04.50 06:25:40 <andythenorth> went to sleep at midnight 😛 06:29:35 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1151766679802613820/image.png 06:29:35 <andythenorth> such articulated truck 🙂 06:29:57 <andythenorth> can I fake that so it's a single vehicle, checking turning angle and using pre-composed 'turn' sprites? 06:35:54 <peter1139> Why? 06:43:33 <andythenorth> eliminates all this boring balancing crap about articulated RVs 06:43:53 <andythenorth> just make them all non-articulated, but fake articulated so players don't keep asking for them 06:44:02 <andythenorth> might not work for long trucks 😛 06:45:21 <andythenorth> ha, maybe I just figure out what the stupid balance things are supposed to be, and do grf parameters 😄 06:46:04 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1151770825935040512/image.png 06:46:04 <andythenorth> there is precedent 😄 06:46:25 <peter1139> "It's unbalanced" sounds like you've been reading Reddit again. 06:46:36 <andythenorth> yes 06:46:39 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1151770975701041152/image.png 06:46:39 <andythenorth> see also 06:47:20 <andythenorth> TL;DR articulated vehicles can only use 1/3 of the roadstops, so they should get something to make them more effective 06:48:12 <andythenorth> but non-articulated trucks have lower capacity (according to RL), so they should get something to make them more effective 06:48:14 <andythenorth> ok 06:48:24 <andythenorth> so parameter for non-articulated truck capacity 06:48:34 <andythenorth> job done 06:48:35 <locosage> You probably still need articulation to detect turns 06:48:39 <peter1139> 1/3? What? 06:48:58 <andythenorth> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1008473233844097104/1151771557958520833/image.png 06:48:58 <andythenorth> 4 out of 6 stop types can't be used 06:49:30 <andythenorth> and the drive-in stop is superior because it has more placement options (4) and more bays (3) 06:49:33 <peter1139> That is a ridiculous reason to say they are unbalanced. 06:49:53 <peter1139> What are these stupid conditions you are making up... :/ 06:50:07 <peter1139> Drive-in stops only have 2 bays. 06:50:17 <andythenorth> there are 3 drawn 06:50:34 <peter1139> Nope. 06:50:46 <peter1139> Two bays and the exit road. 06:50:55 <andythenorth> ha 06:51:02 <andythenorth> we have roadstop grfs now? 06:51:06 <andythenorth> I might redraw them 06:51:10 <locosage> Though maybe you can detect turns based on subtile coordinates. But mapping them will be quite a pita 06:51:27 <andythenorth> I suspect that if drive-in roadstops looked bad and drive-through roadstops looked cool 06:51:36 <andythenorth> this silly issue would disappear 06:52:01 <andythenorth> also if drive-through came first in the build menu 06:52:55 <andythenorth> yes 😄 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10144 06:53:07 <andythenorth> stealth newgrf additions 06:53:17 <andythenorth> might need some docs https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Road_Stops 06:54:39 <andythenorth> ok so merged, but don't think it's in a 13.x release, so 14.x? 06:54:44 * andythenorth updating newgrf spec 07:01:12 <LordAro> that's a very busy evening you all had 07:01:38 <peter1139> I didn't even try to catch up. 07:02:59 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/nml] andythenorth commented on pull request #279: Add: Road stops (feature 0x14) https://github.com/OpenTTD/nml/pull/279#issuecomment-1718876591 07:03:08 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] andythenorth commented on pull request #10144: Add: NewGRF road stops https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/10144#issuecomment-1718876786 07:04:11 <LordAro> i skimmed through 07:04:44 <peter1139> Hmm, going to need lights tonight. Do I take the winter bike and not care about trying to be fast... 07:05:19 <andythenorth> such seasons 07:05:48 *** Kitrana1 has quit IRC 07:06:59 *** Kitrana has joined #openttd 07:10:27 *** menelaos[m] has joined #openttd 07:18:48 <andythenorth> ok this roadstop stuff 🙂 07:19:08 <andythenorth> docs are all written already by jgr 07:19:08 *** elliot[m] has joined #openttd 07:19:14 *** patricia[m]1 has joined #openttd 07:19:20 *** jact[m] has joined #openttd 07:44:49 <andythenorth> roadstops don't have to be in the roadtypes grf, I assume? 07:44:57 <andythenorth> I mean for road surfaces and stuff 07:45:18 <andythenorth> "CHIPS, roadstop edition" 07:47:16 *** karoline[m] has joined #openttd 07:48:46 *** vista_narvas[m] has joined #openttd 07:48:51 *** shedidthedog[m] has joined #openttd 07:48:57 *** zzy2357[m] has joined #openttd 07:49:03 *** EmeraldSnorlax[m] has joined #openttd 07:49:08 *** Gadg8eer[m] has joined #openttd 07:49:14 *** Farrokh[m] has joined #openttd 07:54:34 <truebrain> that moment you rebase our oldest PR, and it has so many conflitcs ... maybe I am faster in just looking at the diff and typing it in again 😛 07:56:17 <andythenorth> ask GPT 07:56:18 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN opened pull request #11296: Codechange: Pass by reference and use emplace-at-end for CargoSummary. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11296 07:56:26 <peter1139> truebrain, happens. 07:56:28 <andythenorth> GPT loves typing 07:57:14 <peter1139> It needs to compile and work though. 07:57:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #11296: Codechange: Pass by reference and use emplace-at-end for CargoSummary. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11296#pullrequestreview-1626247203 07:57:46 <truebrain> peter1139: don't forget you still have some minor work for https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11289 🙂 07:59:09 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] PeterN updated pull request #11289: Codechange: Shuffle class members around to reduce size. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11289 07:59:12 <peter1139> Yeah "git push" 07:59:43 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] TrueBrain approved pull request #11289: Codechange: Shuffle class members around to reduce size. https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11289#pullrequestreview-1626254182 07:59:48 <truebrain> no worries, I help you get your open-PR count down 🙂 08:03:11 <ahyangyi> andythenorth: Most train stations don't come with railtype newGRFs either 😛 08:03:24 <truebrain> don't use logic on andy 08:04:19 <andythenorth> we'll see when I make the grf 08:04:27 <andythenorth> roadtypes seemed to be needed for eye candy decor stuff 08:04:54 <andythenorth> hey, can all those decor roadtypes be replaced by road waypoints? 08:07:04 <peter1139> I thought the "plan" was just make everything an object... 08:07:24 <andythenorth> I don't know if that's a plan, or me throwing mud at walls to see what sticks 08:07:32 <peter1139> Indeed. 08:07:41 <ahyangyi> I just want longer-looking road stations to accomodate for those road trains 08:07:48 <andythenorth> I mean I thought 3CC was a good idea for a while 08:09:26 <peter1139> ahyangyi, that can be done with NewGRF road stops. 08:09:27 <ahyangyi> I want black as a selectable company color 08:09:38 <andythenorth> grf for that 08:09:51 <peter1139> RGBCC allows that :D 08:10:07 <truebrain> I want to get paid for developing on OpenTTD 08:10:16 <andythenorth> we could sell something 08:10:17 <andythenorth> DLC 08:10:18 <truebrain> (let's see if they have an answer to that!) 08:10:40 <andythenorth> sell the ability to have more roadtypes 😛 08:10:52 <ahyangyi> Sell bananas 08:11:58 <ahyangyi> to everywhere in the world 08:12:01 <ahyangyi> and become a transport tycoon™ 08:14:47 <osswix> andythenorth: I'd pay for a game that's kinda like almost exactly openttd but a bit more free in roads and decorating. 08:15:15 <truebrain> well, we do allow for donations 08:15:21 <truebrain> as you are very free in roads and decorating the game 😛 08:16:02 <osswix> Yes. But more free. Like functional diagonals and curves and more stackable objects n stuff. 08:16:22 <truebrain> "more free" is something that will never be reached, so basically you said: I will never pay 08:16:25 <truebrain> fine fine, be like that 😛 08:18:35 <osswix> Rework a new new game with that ability but also the ability to use newgrf files and I'll pay 😹 08:20:01 *** Smedles_ is now known as Smedles 22:45:02 <truebrain> frosch123: And what if you enable shadow parameter? At least I assume it would trigger there 22:46:19 <blindvt> michi_cc[d]: unnamed parameters are fine "nowadays" and way better than void foo(struct baz* __attribute__((__unused__))you_name_it){stuff();}; Just say void foo(struct baz*) {stuff();} an be done. 22:46:31 <blindvt> truebrain: really? 22:46:46 <peter1139> Wshadow is probably useful to add... lots of warnings from that. 22:47:23 <peter1139> In fact, so many, I'm not sure it's doing what I'd expect :D 22:47:38 <blindvt> truebrain: shadow would be if you shadow the param, i.e. if you use the name of the incoming stack area's name of the param to scope the param differently, as you certainly know 22:48:04 <truebrain> Wow, that attitude is really uncalled for 22:48:32 <peter1139> shadowing was the exact cause of this problem. 22:49:51 <blindvt> truebrain: meh, didn't mean to sound rude, sorry for that. But is it really shadowing in C++? Not sure about the C++ rules but i thought that not, no? 22:50:35 <peter1139> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/11299/files < Yes. It was shadowing. 22:50:57 *** robamd64 has joined #openttd 22:50:57 <robamd64> Is it possible to cross-compile OpenTTD for RISC-V? 22:51:05 <blindvt> this always is confusing for i'm most intimately familiar with C and other langs apart from C++ for some aspects :) 22:52:04 <peter1139> Okay, the exact problem is using the wrong variable, but Wshadow would've helped. Wunused-parameter would help if we didn't have so many. 22:52:32 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 22:52:33 <blindvt> robamd64: there are some hand-written blitters, but i guess there are plain fallbacks, so sure, why not? 22:53:59 <robamd64> So, it's possible, but with a lot of work 22:54:18 <peter1139> Hmm, constructors with parameter names the same as their members... oh well. 22:54:24 <blindvt> robamd64: you could try to use target_clones tagged unto the fallback for your cores to get some if not most of the benefit back, lacking hand-written specializations for the implementations you want to target 22:54:51 <truebrain> robamd64: Why cross compile? But kinda depends on the OS 22:55:12 <robamd64> I'm cross-compiling for a buildroot install 22:55:16 <truebrain> Does Debian already support the target? 22:55:22 <michi_cc[d]> If the target has OpenGL, the specialized SSE blitters are mostly meaningless. 22:55:26 <blindvt> robamd64: no, not a lot of work. It should work out of the box if written well (didn't look). 22:55:57 <truebrain> If there is an SDL version, you will be fine 22:56:07 <robamd64> Can you walk me through it then? Kind of a noob here at this whole thing 22:56:16 <truebrain> Or build a dedicated server, ofc 22:57:36 <truebrain> What compiler do you have available to you? Is there cmake available? Do you have SDL dependency ready? 22:58:23 <truebrain> Debian riscv64 is getting there pretty nice I see .. sweet 22:58:54 <peter1139> Widget code shadows a lot. `width` and `height` etc for a start... :) 22:59:16 <truebrain> https://packages.debian.org/sid/riscv64/openttd/filelist 22:59:19 <blindvt> robamd64: i maintained buildroot for a decade long before Loongson or RISC-V manifested, so wouldn't know the current state of affairs, but just give it a try. Consider anything non-working as bug and tell us, please. I'm pretty sure there's interest to help improving any eventual mishaps you may encounter. 22:59:29 <robamd64> I'm targeting some odd hardware, but I do have some cross-compilation tools available to me but not cmake from what I can tell 22:59:51 <truebrain> OpenTTD needs a compiler that can do C++17, and needs CMake 23:00:04 <truebrain> Without that, you won't get anywhere 23:00:14 <truebrain> All other dependencies are kinda optional 23:00:53 <truebrain> From there on, cmake will tell you what to focus on next 🙂 23:01:24 *** palmito has joined #openttd 23:01:54 <truebrain> Debian didn't apply any additional patches for riscv64, so one can assume it "just works" after that 23:02:03 <blindvt> robamd64: there's a cmake package in buildroot, i'm pretty sure. And there are several, or at least 2 C++17 Compilers available in there, so you should be set. I _think_ that cmake rules are supported too, for building cross packages. 23:02:53 <_glx_> a recent enough cmake and a recent enough compiler 23:03:14 <truebrain> robamd64: Depending how odd the hardware is, realise OpenTTD needs a bit of memory. It won't run on an ESP32-C3 😛 23:03:26 *** palmito has quit IRC 23:03:51 <kamnet> FLHerne: Welcome back! A similar thing happened in the US in 1980. An oil rig that was being prepared to drill had not properly surveyed the lake it was in, and instead of drilling into an oil reserve it drilled into the top of one of the caverns of the Diamond Crystal Salt Company mine 460 m below the surface. This resulted in fresh water rushing in, dissolving the pillars within minutes and 23:03:51 <kamnet> triggering a mine collapse. The sinkhole then opened up and sucked down the oil right platform, 11 barges, a tugboat, and 65 acres of farmland. That then triggered the reversal of a drainage canal, leading to sea water from the Gulf of Mexico to flow upstream and back into the drained lakebed. After a week the air trapped in the mines escaped in huge 120 m guysers, and it burped up the 11 barges. 23:03:51 <kamnet> Everybody in the mine and on the oil rig, and one fisherman in the lake escaped safely. The remaining caverns of the salt mine are now used to store natural gas. 23:04:09 <robamd64> truebrain: 64mb of onboard and an extra 256mb of swap 23:04:11 <blindvt> robamd64: cmake had trouble to cross-compile several years ago when it only worked quasi-natively, but IIRC that was fixed since then so just assume it should work flawlessly. Please tell the buildroot list if you experience trouble, i'm sure folks will help you through. 23:04:57 <robamd64> To be specific, I'm using a Milk-V Duo with a graphical interface over X11VNC 23:05:08 <robamd64> https://milkv.io/duo 23:05:55 <truebrain> Yeah, don't expect too much 😛 23:06:12 <_glx_> that's not a lot of memory 23:07:21 <truebrain> Given you also need to run an X11 server if you want a GUI .. Will not leave a lot for OpenTTD 🙂 23:07:48 <robamd64> truebrain: I do have that lol 23:07:49 <truebrain> But don't let that stop you :S 23:07:54 <_glx_> IIRC VS showed near 200MB just after starting and in main menu 23:08:11 <robamd64> I just wanna see if it'll run for the hell of it 23:08:19 <truebrain> Nah, OpenTTD can run under 50MB 23:08:22 <FLHerne> You can play early OTTD with 64MB and no swap, I've done it 23:08:38 <truebrain> Just not 4kx4k 😄 23:08:43 <_glx_> I have a lot of newgrf to scan at start 🙂 23:08:53 <FLHerne> on a PowerBook 1400, which was also... fun to compile for 23:09:02 <truebrain> Title games ran at 48 or so 23:09:12 <FLHerne> and needed some horrible out-of-tree kernel patches 23:09:50 <kamnet> robamd64: Looks like a fun project! 23:09:56 <truebrain> robamd64: Well, enjoy! 😄 If you can't get SDL to work, we also support Allegro 23:10:08 <FLHerne> _glx_: debug symbols will bloat it substantially if enabled 23:10:25 <_glx_> well it was a debug build 😉 23:10:33 <FLHerne> also, has the default sprite cache size increased? 23:11:08 <robamd64> kamnet: I just rickrolled myself with it over MPV, it struggled to play a 360p MP4 lol 23:11:17 <FLHerne> it probably should have done because ~everyone has tons of RAM now 23:11:49 <blindvt> robamd64: i'm not really familiar with openTTD, but i suspect that it's merely an integer program, so 64MB RAM and one 1GHz CPU should be plenty for a lot of fun (if your video-core is able to pipe enough data to the display). Other than that, i take it you know that nowadays there are some vastly powerful RISC-V chips in the pipeline (if not already generally available), so you might try to get your hands on one of those and not such an IOT-kin 23:12:43 <truebrain> robamd64: Yeah, your fps won't be great in OpenTTD 😛 23:12:51 <truebrain> But who cares, its fun 🙂 23:12:59 <FLHerne> truebrain: I don't think you technically *need* an X server, SDL can render direct to framebuffer if you tinker a bit 23:13:14 <FLHerne> it could years ago, anyway 23:13:17 <truebrain> FLHerne: Not with X11vnc 😛 23:13:29 <FLHerne> oh, ok 23:13:33 <blindvt> truebrain: is allegro nowadays competitive to DSL, performance-wise for constrained boxes? Back in the days, allegro was way behind in terms of efficiency. Did that somehow change? 23:13:59 <robamd64> Obviously the hardware isn't built for this type of intense application, it's meant for AI. But I love getting things to do what they're not supposed to 23:14:00 <blindvt> s/DSL/DSL/;# oh well :) 23:14:12 <_glx_> the only diff I can see is sdl support of opengl 23:14:15 <blindvt> SDL even. 23:14:40 <robamd64> So, how do I go about compiling OpenTTD again? 23:15:02 <robamd64> Sorry I was half paying attention to this convo and the VNC viewer on my laptop lol 23:15:21 <truebrain> robamd64: In my life I ported OpenTTD to the weirdest platforms, so I understand 😄 from PSP, to cross compiling to MacOS when it was considered "impossible" 😄 it is good fun! 23:15:46 <blindvt> muscle brain playing tricks on me. I was one of those who wrote the faster ancestor of SDL back then, so maybe that counts as an excuse for my inability to type 'em correctly ;) 23:15:47 <truebrain> robamd64: Get compiler that supports C++17, get CMake, get SDL 23:15:56 <_glx_> happy we now have native macos in CI 😉 23:16:04 <_glx_> much simpler 23:16:08 <robamd64> truebrain: So I try to compile on the device itself? 23:16:21 <_glx_> no you can cross compile 23:16:24 <truebrain> Nah, can be done in buildroot if you like 23:17:03 <_glx_> we actually cross compile arm windows version 23:17:19 <_glx_> you can check the workflows 23:17:25 <truebrain> Buildroot will make cmake do the right thing too 23:17:26 <robamd64> Let me check the config, I've been using someone else's who's been running X over an SPI screen on their Duo 23:18:14 <_glx_> it's a 2 step process, first the tools for host, then the target with info about where to find the tools 23:18:31 <truebrain> Or else you can always try with OprnEmbedded 🙂 23:19:07 <robamd64> So I need to try and find a supported cmake for RISCV"? 23:19:11 <truebrain> But if you have buildroot running already, just a matter of setting dependencies 23:19:34 <robamd64> The buildroot system already has SDL and SDL2 23:19:35 <_glx_> if you cross compile cmake just need to be supported by host 23:19:41 <truebrain> Buildroot should take care of that for you. But I start to have the impression you don't know how to work with buildroot 😄 23:19:47 <truebrain> Learning curve ahead! 23:19:55 <robamd64> truebrain: I have some idea 23:20:11 <robamd64> I've been working with mostly kernel and the defconfig for a while 23:20:37 <truebrain> Good! So just add OpenTTD, slap the dependencies on it, and let buildroot take care of the rest 23:21:03 <truebrain> SDL2 also uses cmake 23:21:08 <truebrain> So you will be fine 🙂 23:21:37 <robamd64> truebrain: Wait like make a custom package? 23:22:01 <truebrain> Yes, ofc, what else did you expect? 23:22:11 <robamd64> No idea lol 23:22:13 <truebrain> You need to build OpenTTD at some point 23:22:42 <_glx_> there's still the important part of first building the tools (strgen and settingsgen) for the host 23:22:46 <robamd64> I was mostly expecting to somehow reconfigure and build openttd myself and just copy it over to the filesystem 23:22:57 <truebrain> Plenty of tutorials on the Web to tell you how to add a package to buildroot, including ones that use cmake 🙂 23:23:11 <_glx_> but I guess it's configurable 23:23:11 <truebrain> Via a package is 20x easier 23:23:21 <truebrain> Let buildroot do the work for you 23:23:48 <peter1139> 20x is quite specific... 23:23:54 <truebrain> But this is the toying part; I am off to bed, have fun with it 🙂 23:24:19 <truebrain> peter1139: If it was OpenEmbedded it would have been 13.7x 23:24:54 <peter1139> Shall I sit here all night doing F2 refactor to prefix with `m_`? ;p 23:25:15 <_glx_> do we really want that ? 23:25:17 <truebrain> I will YOLO approve 23:25:26 <peter1139> _glx_, probably not :D 23:25:42 <_glx_> you'll need to update the wiki after 23:27:38 <peter1139> We should spend a few years bikeshedding over which prefix to use. 23:28:38 <_glx_> yeah and one prefix for other kind of variables too 23:28:48 <robamd64> _glx_: I should probably start with this 23:29:33 <robamd64> Actually, I have no idea how 23:29:41 <robamd64> Are they OpenTTD related tools? 23:32:53 <_glx_> yeah your build workflow will first run cmake for host with -DOPTION_TOOLS_ONLY=ON option, then build it, then it will run cmake for target with -DHOST_BINARY_DIR=<path_to_the_host_tools> and build openttd 23:32:53 <truebrain> peter1139: Compilers should just have a flag: don't allow member access without `this->` 23:33:15 <_glx_> but all that should be in the package 23:34:34 <robamd64> still trying to figure out config.ln lol 23:35:18 <_glx_> I guess openttd is not the easiest choice as first try 🙂 23:35:59 <robamd64> Something like this maybe? 23:36:00 <robamd64> config BR2_PACKAGE_OPENTTD 23:36:00 <robamd64> bool "openttd" 23:36:00 <robamd64> default y 23:36:00 <robamd64> depends on BR2_PACKAGE_CMAKE 23:36:01 <robamd64> select BR2_PACKAGE_SDL2 23:36:01 <robamd64> help 23:36:03 <robamd64> OpenTTD package 23:36:16 <robamd64> Or does it need normal SDL 23:36:38 <_glx_> we support both SDL and SDL2 23:36:46 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] James103 commented on issue #11298: [Crash]: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11298 23:39:07 <robamd64> Someone already ported OpenTTD to buildroot, brb gonna try this lol 23:45:09 <_glx_> yeah always best to start from existing 23:45:16 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:58:28 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 commented on issue #11298: [Crash]: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11298 23:58:31 <DorpsGek> [OpenTTD/OpenTTD] glx22 closed issue #11298: [Crash]: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues/11298