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22:45:50 <talltyler> Oh, you mean ditch “speed” altogether! 😄 22:45:54 <truebrain> yes 22:46:02 <talltyler> I like that even better! 22:46:02 <truebrain> just: 12 minutes (100%) 22:46:06 <truebrain> people will understand just fine 22:46:49 <talltyler> Oh, but it’s not a percent of the original number of minutes, it is a percent of the original speed 22:46:56 <truebrain> yes 22:47:09 <_glx_> it's implied by 100% 22:47:52 <talltyler> `Minutes per year: 6 (200%)` is bound to originate at least two bug reports 🙂 22:48:13 <truebrain> when you write it like that, yes 🙂 22:48:24 <reldred> closed: wontfix 22:48:28 <truebrain> `Timescale: 6 minutes per year (200%)` 22:48:30 <reldred> closed: feature not a fault 22:48:33 <truebrain> might be a bit lengthy ... 22:48:45 <truebrain> but just `6` looks odd 22:48:54 <truebrain> on the other hand, just forget about minutes 22:48:54 <talltyler> Oh oops 22:48:57 <truebrain> `Timescale: 200%` 22:49:06 <jfs> is it explained in the tooltip? 22:49:09 <truebrain> `Timespeed: 200%` 22:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem with 200% is that the thing people actually want (longer days) will need fractional values 22:49:44 <talltyler> `Minutes per year: 6 minutes (200%)` 22:50:04 <talltyler> ^^ is the actual string, it does say minutes in the value 22:50:04 <Eddi|zuHause> 12.5%, etc. 22:50:12 <truebrain> ah, already better 😛 22:50:27 <truebrain> you can also invert it, under the assumption that people want to slow down more often than speed up 22:50:33 <truebrain> so 200% is 24 minutes per year 22:50:39 <truebrain> which kinda makes a bit more sense, when I think about it 22:50:41 <jfs> yeah, if possible I think it'd be better to indulge in some floating point here 22:50:51 <talltyler> I couldn’t figure out floating point 😛 22:51:17 <talltyler> So do we want the percent to be speed, or minutes? 22:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, daylength was always used in the context of slowing down... 22:51:35 <truebrain> I think that `12 -> 6 == 200%` looks odd 22:51:56 <talltyler> Do we even need a percent, besides letting people find out that default = 12? They can do their own math 22:51:57 <truebrain> I would say it is more likely people say: the game runs twice as slow 22:52:01 <truebrain> than they would say it runs 0.5 as fast 22:52:13 <jfs> how about fractions then... that will also be fun 22:52:44 <truebrain> so I would argue that `12 -> 24 == 200%`; which is just a representation trick 22:52:57 <truebrain> I think percentages are nice, as it gives you a relative measure from "normal" 22:53:01 <jfs> but that's 200% what, 200% slowdown? 22:53:05 <truebrain> the actual amount of minutes feels much less relevant 22:53:08 <jfs> 200% anti-speed? 22:53:26 <talltyler> I originally did the whole thing as a percent and nobody liked it 😛 22:53:38 <truebrain> `Time dilation: 200% slower` 22:53:56 <_glx_> but 100% slower is normal speed 22:54:01 <_glx_> feels weird 22:54:12 <truebrain> true; so 0% slower is normal 😛 22:54:17 <jfs> in that case I think describing it as a factor is more intuitive, "2x slower" 22:54:25 <truebrain> so it would be: `50% faster` .. `normal` .. `100% slower` 🙂 22:54:32 <talltyler> 0 is a special value for Frozen 22:54:41 <talltyler> I don’t want to add another toggle for that 22:54:48 <truebrain> talltyler: no no, we talk about the representation here; not the actual internal value 22:55:12 <jfs> the setting should still be given in minutes per year imo, and any % or speed factor is only an assistance to know how far you've gone 22:55:18 <talltyler> I know, but World Generation has so many buttons now, I don’t want to add more 22:55:33 <truebrain> jfs: I kinda disagree. The percentage is the important part, and the minutes is just the implementation of it 22:55:39 <truebrain> I cannot imagine someone says: I want 10 minutes per year 22:55:41 <_glx_> world generation needs tabs 22:55:46 <truebrain> it will more be like: I want the game to be twice as slow 22:55:57 <truebrain> talltyler: why add more?! We are talking about different things .. 22:56:04 <truebrain> all I am talking about is how the dropdown you have now is represented 22:56:05 <truebrain> that is all 22:56:15 <truebrain> so .. I am puzzled 😛 22:56:19 <talltyler> Someone previously suggested a Boolean “frozen” button in addition to the number input 22:56:34 <_glx_> no need for a button 22:56:47 <_glx_> 0_is_special is enough 22:57:05 <jfs> how about a slider like the volume control for music/sound, but with some snapping to common values, and a way to enter other values in an input box popup 22:57:41 <peter1138[d]> The interface-scale slider does snapping. 22:58:10 <truebrain> Fast forward calls it: `2500% normal game speed` .. so `2500% normal calendar speed` would be the similar text 22:58:42 <talltyler> Yes, the issue is that 1% of normal calendar speed is limiting, because we can go so much slower 22:59:03 <talltyler> And you would rarely want to go faster 22:59:07 <truebrain> is it important, when you go 1200 minutes per year? Is even slower useful? 22:59:18 <truebrain> but I agree that the inverse would be more practical 22:59:28 <jfs> one of my recent suggestions was to (somehow) format the percentage with two significant digits 22:59:55 <peter1138[d]> jfs: that worked "so well" for aircraft speed 😉 22:59:58 <jfs> and include a decimal point 23:00:22 <_glx_> `normal game speed` can be `normal game slowness` 23:00:40 <_glx_> so you can invert the % meaning 23:01:37 <jfs> "normal slowness", implying "the game has always been slow" 23:01:41 <peter1138[d]> People are going to be looking for "daylength" 23:01:41 <talltyler> “Slowness” is a confusing way to word it 😉 23:02:05 <talltyler> I am not calling it daylength anywhere, because that implies slowing down the economy too 23:02:18 <talltyler> I don’t want anybody thinking it’s the same implementation 23:02:54 <reldred> peter1138[d]: I don't necesarily think so, people who know that term will be the jgrpp die hards, and I don't think they're going to be necesarily swapping back to regular openttd, and if they do, they'll be savvy enough to know the difference. 23:03:40 <reldred> And on merge back downstream to JGRPP the players will have to be savvy enough to know the difference as we could quite possibly still have one, the other, or both in JGRPP. 23:03:47 <talltyler> I do like “minutes per year”, but the percentage isn’t very useful except for telling people how to reset back to normal (although clicking the value opens an input dialog with a Default button) 23:03:57 <reldred> I think being clear exactly what each system is will probably be the way forward 23:04:05 *** keikoz has quit IRC 23:05:19 <_jgr_> The OpenTTD devs shouldn't need to worry abut what it's called in my branch 23:05:38 <reldred> JGR players are already used to being in the deep end of the pool 23:06:00 <jfs> okay then, "200% length days" 23:06:15 <jfs> then it increases with minutes per year 23:08:46 <talltyler> jfs: I like this idea, but the max value is currently 10800, so th