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00:00:06 <Smoovious> huh... ok, well, I'm stayingon now... wtf 00:00:13 <Darkvater> your client needs to sync up with the game state 00:00:45 <Smoovious> what happened the first time is I just finished making 8 oil tankers, and setting routes for them... 2 on each route... and started them all together using the green flag in the depot window 00:00:59 <Smoovious> the tankers appeared, and started to bog down 00:01:12 <Smoovious> and for the past 6 tries, I couldn't get back in, either logged in or as observer 00:01:52 <Darkvater> hmm ships use NPF 00:01:55 <Darkvater> that's never good 00:02:12 <Smoovious> just don't get why it should have impacted me so hard like that 00:02:35 <Darkvater> no idea 00:02:39 <Darkvater> lemme benchmark this 00:02:43 <Smoovious> it is set to not use YAPF by default 00:02:59 <Darkvater> it's also set to not use NPF by default 00:05:30 <Smoovious> it suddenly dragged down, like when the compressor on my air conditioning in the car, cracked, and sprayed freon all over the engine while I was on the freeway... 00:05:58 <Darkvater> that must've been a sight :) 00:07:03 <Smoovious> well, lets just say it was a good thing I had my seat-belt on when the engine seized up 00:09:38 <Smoovious> ack 00:10:00 <CIA-1> glx * r8048 /branches/newhouses/src/town.h: [newhouses] -Fix r8046: now it links :) (thanks KUDr) 00:10:00 <Smoovious> shouldn't have made those ships... was doing just fine before them 00:10:22 <Darkvater> so what error do you have? 00:10:38 <Rubidium_> and what version are you running? 00:10:50 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:10:58 <Smoovious> it just gets sluggish, and I disconnect... (RC3)... didn't help that the other guy was terriforming near me either 00:11:10 <Darkvater> weird, I don't have any probs 00:11:34 <Smoovious> making those ships was the only new thing I did... I've been having hundreds of road vehicles and aircraft no problem... soon as those ships appear tho... blah... 00:12:01 <Smoovious> if I can stay in long enough, I'll get rid of em 00:12:01 <Darkvater> he, BinaryHeap_Delete, Hash_FindNode and NPFHash all used 5% CPU in the game 00:12:03 <Darkvater> top 3 00:12:24 <Darkvater> Smoovious: tell bart to turn on yapf-ships, might help you 00:12:35 <Smoovious> k... 00:12:37 <Smoovious> HEY BART! :) 00:12:44 <Darkvater> ingame 00:12:49 <Smoovious> I know. :D 00:13:12 <Smoovious> ok, all ships heading to depot 00:15:09 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 00:17:35 <Smoovious> that's wierd... suddenly it all cleared up 00:18:19 <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?72232 <--- I wouldn't know 00:18:34 <Bjarni> you see, that would demand an income 00:23:36 <picitlama> and income tax 00:25:37 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has joined #openttd 00:25:41 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:38 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has joined #openttd 00:32:07 <Bjarni> yeah, you need to make some sort of income to pay income tax 00:36:12 <picitlama> legal income 00:36:31 <picitlama> so bank robbery or prostitution no 00:37:17 <Bjarni> for some odd reason prostitution is legal here, so the tax people show up at them once in a while and they never pay their taxes like they should 00:37:30 <Bjarni> this was btw a demand from EU 00:38:29 <Bjarni> it was legalised shortly before Denmark became chairman of EU and it appears that the many EU people (from other countries) really wanted to use such "services" 00:38:53 <Smoovious> trivial bug, but buoy's are being numbered from 9 to 1, instead of 1 to 9 00:39:03 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 00:39:14 <Bjarni> now people want to ban it again because of the crime it takes with it 00:39:32 <Smoovious> vices are always safer when they're legal... something our own gov't has yet to wise up to 00:39:38 <SpComb> "Error: Cannot create bouy: Illegal Bouy name '0'" 00:39:39 <Bjarni> Smoovious: I noticed that more than 2 and a half years ago 00:39:51 <Bjarni> nobody cared back then 00:40:07 * Smoovious grins. 00:40:22 <Smoovious> well, as bugs go, it isn't that big of a deal 00:40:44 <picitlama> Bjarni: then police save the girls, like any other workers 00:40:45 <Darkvater> doesn't that make a crash though? 00:40:59 <Darkvater> Bjarni: if you noticed, why didn't you fix it? 00:41:00 <picitlama> save=protect 00:41:24 <FlashFF> zomg mysql logs ftw! 00:41:26 <Bjarni> <Darkvater> Bjarni: if you noticed, why didn't you fix it? <--- because I lacked commit rights back then 00:41:31 <Bjarni> picitlama: not really 00:41:36 <Darkvater> lol 00:41:38 <KUDr> Bjarni: here is prostitution also legal. And only the problems it causes is that in some cities it goes nasty on the streets 00:41:55 <KUDr> So some cities regulate it 00:42:55 <Bjarni> I want the Swedish solution. Make it a crime for to pay for such "services". If men risk going to jail, most of them tend not to dare doing so 00:42:56 <pv2b> the cpp branch was merged with trunk? 00:43:04 <Bjarni> pv2b: yes 00:43:42 <KUDr> Bjarni: but it is service as each other, why should it be crime to pay for service? 00:43:47 <Bjarni> Darkvater: nobody cared -> ludde and Vurlix didn't care 00:44:45 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 00:44:50 <Smoovious> I don't mind it being regulated, but if you don't leave some kind of legal avenue for people's vices, then you leave no alternative but for it to go criminal 00:45:15 <Bjarni> KUDr: 1: it spreads STDs, 2: there is a whole lot of women forced into prostitution (by people in Eastern Europe) 00:45:26 <Bjarni> maybe reverse that order 00:45:48 <picitlama> KUDr: because this is bad for the women, and forced prostitution a big problem 00:45:48 <Bjarni> the point is that whenever such activities shows up, crime tend to follow 00:46:15 <KUDr> forced prostitution is big crime here 00:46:24 <Bjarni> I know 00:46:27 <KUDr> but many of them want to do it 00:46:37 <Bjarni> I'm not so sure 00:46:44 <Bjarni> why would they want to do it? 00:47:14 <Bjarni> not because they get money, because they don't 00:47:24 <KUDr> and from the health POV it is absolutelly safe - it is regulated - they must undertake many health exams 00:47:28 <Bjarni> other people keep the money they earn 00:47:34 <Smoovious> and a lot of women see it as currency anyways... prostitution or not... 00:47:38 <Smoovious> means to an end... 00:48:25 *** Mizipzor [Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 00:48:28 <picitlama> Bjarni: sex is generally a good thing, so if someone don't have (enough) sex by love/marriage/incest, there a demand 00:48:32 <KUDr> if there is offer and lso demand, it should be legal - in non-forced form 00:48:50 <picitlama> Bjarni: and where a demand, there are services 00:49:05 <KUDr> otherwise it goes to underground and there is much bigger risk of health problems and crime 00:49:15 <Bjarni> there is a demand for stolen cars as well. Should we legalise that? 00:49:39 <picitlama> no 00:49:59 <Bjarni> so the argument of legalising everything because there is a demand is no good 00:50:00 <picitlama> if you stole a car, then somebody (the owner of the car) losts money 00:50:03 <KUDr> Bjarni: stolen cars hurt somebody 00:50:06 <KUDr> sex not 00:50:20 <Bjarni> how do you know that for sure? 00:50:21 <picitlama> Bjarni: but a hypotetcial clean prostitution dont hurt anybody 00:50:31 <KUDr> you must not cause troubles to others 00:50:56 <picitlama> Bjarni: this is the function of the govt. 00:50:57 <Bjarni> <picitlama> Bjarni: but a hypotetcial clean prostitution dont hurt anybody <-- those only exists in theory 00:50:58 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:51:08 <KUDr> picitlama: if there is no offer, there would be much more sexual crime 00:51:12 <Smoovious> having a car isn't illegal... stealing one is... 00:51:25 <KUDr> like pedofilia and so on 00:51:40 <picitlama> Bjarni: here, in hungary, sometimes you can find workers handled like slaves. 00:51:53 <pv2b> if prostitution is illegal, why is being a coal miner (for example) legal? 00:52:05 <Smoovious> picitlama... is it legal there? 00:52:25 <picitlama> Bjarni: this is the same problem, just the work is not prostitution, but potato picking 00:52:33 <picitlama> Smoovious: not really 00:52:40 <KUDr> picitlama: here too (from ukraina or russia) but it is because their 'friends' do it 00:52:55 <Smoovious> picitlama: then of course you are going to have it hit rock-bottom 00:53:11 <picitlama> KUDr: forced prostituion is slavery, and i think one of the worst type of slavery :( 00:53:18 <picitlama> Smoovious: hm? 00:53:23 <KUDr> yes 00:53:26 <KUDr> agre 00:53:34 <KUDr> it should not be forced 00:53:34 <pv2b> forced labour is orthogonal to prostitution though 00:53:37 <Darkvater> are we legalizing prositituion here? 00:53:40 <Smoovious> same thing with recreational drugs... gov't is always talking about the drugs being the problem and talk about the problem being all the crime/violence/guns/etc... when all of those are a function of it being illegal... 00:53:53 <KUDr> Darkvater: we did 00:53:57 <pv2b> Smoovious: agree. 00:54:04 <picitlama> Darkvater: no, planning new factory types in the game. Brothel and party-bus to transport. 00:54:06 <Bjarni> <picitlama> KUDr: forced prostituion is slavery, and i think one of the worst type of slavery :( <-- this is what we got for legalising prostitution and the main reason it should be banned. Right now it's perfectly legal for men to visit such places 00:54:13 <Smoovious> give people who like to use them, a legal avenue, which can be regulated, then all the rest of that becomes unprofitable... 00:54:15 <Darkvater> In Holland where prostitution has been legalized a lot of thoe workers complain about the worsening of their working conditions 00:54:27 <pv2b> Smoovious: not neccessarilly. the gangs can still compete on price. 00:54:29 <Darkvater> basically about 90% goes 'underground' or 'black market' 00:54:44 <Smoovious> who's going to risk going down into the hood and getting ripped off, or even shot, by some worthless punk, when they can go down to a shoppe and get it over the counter? 00:54:47 <Darkvater> all that bullcrap about health standards, regulation, or whatever is bullshit 00:55:01 <Darkvater> the government only legalized it because then they can legally get taxes 00:55:02 <picitlama> Bjarni: then lets the goverment make order. This is why we have government. 00:55:15 <Bjarni> <Darkvater> are we legalizing prositituion here? <-- EU wanted Denmark to legalise it before they went to meetings here... and so we did. Now people want to ban it again because it resulted in women living in slave like conditions 00:55:18 <picitlama> Darkvater: hmmm, you are also from Hungary :) 00:55:29 <Smoovious> then the gov't can go after the real problem... the violence and crime associated with it... 00:55:49 <Darkvater> yes 00:55:56 <Smoovious> replace all the people locked up for simple drug crimes, with people for violent crimes, and you'll see a big improvement 00:55:59 <Darkvater> yes to picitlama 00:56:08 <KUDr> Darkvater: here they don't pay taxes at all, but government can watch them and regulate their health care and so on 00:56:12 <Darkvater> Smoovious: they won't cause they're a bunch of wankers 00:56:21 <Bjarni> <picitlama> Bjarni: then lets the goverment make order. This is why we have government. <--- if that is your opinion, then you failed to understand what democracy is all about 00:56:22 <picitlama> KUDr: "here" = ? 00:56:24 <Darkvater> go figure with Harry Potter as president :s 00:56:25 <Bjarni> it's the voice of the people 00:56:27 <KUDr> cz 00:56:50 <picitlama> Bjarni: this is not demokracy, this is free trade, capitalism. 00:57:01 <picitlama> Darkvater: :D 00:57:08 <Bjarni> <Darkvater> go figure with Harry Potter as president :s <-- that will be hard. Rumours claims that he dies in the last book, which is before he is an adult 00:57:20 <Darkvater> oh well 00:57:28 <picitlama> Bjarni: according to current romuors, hp dont die 00:57:30 <Bjarni> since the script is a secret, it's not official 00:57:41 <Darkvater> we had elections in November so we either keep HP, or get a garden-midget 00:58:07 <picitlama> Darkvater: ? 00:58:12 <Darkvater> one of these: http://jongerenraadborsele.nl/media/articles/tuinkabouter.jpg 00:58:25 <Darkvater> picitlama: I'm talking about the Netherlands 00:58:33 <picitlama> Darkvater: yes. 00:58:34 <Darkvater> not that piece of shit asshole Gyurcsany 00:58:48 <Bjarni> I know just what party he would be in if he was a Danish politician 00:59:15 <picitlama> Darkvater: please, curse the hungarian politicians in hungarian, don't hurt the others :) 00:59:16 <Smoovious> democracy is so the majority can stomp on the rights of the minority by taking them away 00:59:33 <Bjarni> smoking, drinking, beard, the cloth... it's all clear 00:59:41 <Bjarni> the party that gets nearly no votes :P 00:59:44 <picitlama> Darkvater: and hungarian much better for cursing 00:59:52 <Darkvater> hehe 01:00:02 <Bjarni> we do have a party like that 01:00:08 <Bjarni> and nearly nobody cares about them 01:00:20 * Darkvater commits the hopefully really LAST fix to the news crashes 01:01:11 <Bjarni> hehe, the last election, the TV channels made it a battle between two people (like a president vote) and in the end, more than half of the population voted for parties where no of those people where 01:02:27 <picitlama> hmm, balkenende really hp 01:02:45 <Darkvater> he is a joke 01:02:53 <Bjarni> picitlama: ? 01:03:37 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has quit [Quit: J?iet prom] 01:03:39 <picitlama> Bjarni: Balkenende is the prime minister of Darkvater (and Nederlands). And really looks like Harry Potter, after the first successful coitus 01:03:55 <picitlama> Darkvater: but who is the dwarf? 01:04:13 <picitlama> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jan_Pieter_Balkenende.jpg 01:04:23 <Darkvater> wouter bos 01:04:33 <Darkvater> he's not small but looks like a dwarf 01:04:49 <Darkvater> http://pipolala.zattevrienden.be/balkenende.jpg 01:04:52 <Darkvater> there we go 01:04:59 <Darkvater> he can star in the next movie ^^ 01:05:14 <picitlama> :) 01:05:25 <picitlama> Femke Halsema looks nice 01:05:40 <picitlama> if i were in your place, i vote for the greenleft party. 01:05:42 <Darkvater> if I were to see this guy on the street I would run away hard cause he looks like a pedophile 01:05:49 <Darkvater> greenleft :s 01:06:10 <Darkvater> oh jolly good, let's spend all YOUR money on immigrants and stupid social programs 01:06:12 <picitlama> http://www.wouterbos.nl/ 01:06:13 <Darkvater> no thank you 01:06:13 <picitlama> no beard 01:06:52 <GoneWacko> bah 01:06:59 <GoneWacko> Darkvater is a silly VVD-er :p 01:07:07 <Darkvater> I hate the VVD 01:07:09 * GoneWacko is non-descript 01:07:27 <GoneWacko> I float all the time, they all have things I agree with 01:07:30 <Darkvater> come to think of it I don't like any of the parties in Holland 01:07:34 <GoneWacko> Darkvater: Wilders? Fortuyn? SP? 01:07:53 <Darkvater> I voted pvda; donnu why 01:08:00 <GoneWacko> I voted PvdA too. 01:08:17 <Darkvater> I should've voted PvD ^^ 01:08:30 <Darkvater> partij voor de dieren 01:08:49 <GoneWacko> Just because of their leader I bet :>> 01:08:51 <picitlama> Darkvater: i think you need a few months in Hungary. 01:09:00 <GoneWacko> anyhow I was underway to bed 01:09:02 <GoneWacko> so good night 01:09:02 <Darkvater> actually, the fun part was that 'stemwijzer' showed I should vote D66 01:09:08 <GoneWacko> Same here D: 01:09:09 <Darkvater> but they're a joke 01:09:12 <GoneWacko> Yeah 01:09:12 <Darkvater> lol 01:09:14 <picitlama> Darkvater: after this, you see Wouter on the streets, you hug him :) 01:09:27 <Darkvater> picitlama: been there in the summer, rather not go back :) 01:10:10 <Darkvater> GoneWacko: if I were to go for the looks I'd vote groenlinks 01:10:17 *** Ailure [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:44 <Darkvater> picitlama: politics in Hungary is horrible. I can't even speak politics with some of my friends cause then we would have a huge fight and never see each other again 01:12:52 <Bjarni> oh I once had a friend like that 01:12:53 <picitlama> Darkvater: yes. So i think, you can find values in your politicians. 01:12:55 <GoneWacko> I actually let my voting be influenced by Tweakers.net's article on the IT-related subjects and the stances of political parties on them :p 01:12:59 <Bjarni> went to the same class as him 01:13:06 <Darkvater> GoneWacko: :O 01:13:24 <Bjarni> it ended up with him getting the reputation (even in other classes) for being a communist 01:13:46 <Darkvater> picitlama: the problem is in NL nothing too much changes no matter what you vote. So politicians don't have too much to do 01:13:54 <Darkvater> hehe 01:13:56 <nairan> same for germany 01:14:05 <GoneWacko> iirc PvdA was 'on the side of the users, not the industry' in relation to DRM and such 01:14:24 <Darkvater> until Bos turns around and decides otherwise :) 01:14:31 <picitlama> Darkvater: i think this is a very good thing 01:14:43 <GoneWacko> heh 01:15:11 <picitlama> Darkvater: some stability... oh 01:15:12 <Darkvater> yes that is a good thing, but I meant to say that it doesn't mean that politicians have any better values just because they don't fight to the death 01:15:14 <GoneWacko> <-- zzzzzz 01:15:42 <picitlama> Darkvater: but they have less negative values 01:16:19 *** Nobody_from_Nowhere [~Nobody@d463cb71.datahighways.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 01:16:32 <Bjarni> here it actually matters who is in charge. The current government actually got a sane policy, which is taxes aren't allowed to increase. The opposition wants to raise it even though Denmark got the highest taxes in the world. The opposition claims that we will not have money for hospitals and so on if we don't 01:17:01 * Darkvater just love scare-tactics 01:17:10 <Darkvater> they're doing the same here but for pensions 01:17:23 <nairan> same here for health system and pensions 01:17:24 <Darkvater> work till youre 70 gg over and die 01:17:46 <nairan> in germany they raised it to 67 but maybe it will be raised again 01:17:56 <nairan> it = they 01:22:00 <CIA-1> Darkvater * r8049 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: 01:22:00 <CIA-1> -Regression (r7369): Removing certain news windows could cause a crash due to only 01:22:00 <CIA-1> one MoveToNextItem() in DeleteVehicleNews (added in r3757). To work correctly do not 01:22:00 <CIA-1> reset _forced_news to INVALID_NEWS when a new item is added, but leave it. 01:22:00 <CIA-1> -Codechange: ShowLastNewsMessage has been changed so that it actually works, wraps 01:22:02 <CIA-1> around correctly (array as FIFO) and shows the previous news item if the current 01:22:04 <CIA-1> news item is open (previously this was doubly shown). 01:22:09 <Darkvater> ok, I'm done 01:22:17 <Darkvater> gn all, do test this :) 01:22:18 <Bjarni> I actually consider the worst part of scare tactics to be the media 01:22:45 <Bjarni> some of them tend to be very political in their selection of what and how to broadcast news 01:23:46 <Bjarni> are you guys still here? 01:24:01 <picitlama> i am here 01:24:05 *** Blue [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 01:24:37 <picitlama> Bjarni: this is why i dont have television and dont read daily newspapers 01:24:49 *** Ailure [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 01:25:42 <Blue> Ok now that i'm at the right place, Who here should i talk to about getting my patch included into OpenTTD 01:26:27 <picitlama> Blue: Darkvater, as i see 01:27:38 <Blue> thanks 01:27:40 <Bjarni> Blue: you made some sort of great patch, right? 01:28:02 <Bjarni> like full 32 bit graphic support or something, right? 01:28:08 <Blue> Industry Directory For Stations 01:28:37 <Blue> 32 Bit graphic haha I'm not that good 01:29:41 <Bjarni> well 01:29:48 <Bjarni> you got the blue stuff going 01:29:54 <Bjarni> that's 1/3 of the way there 01:31:05 <Bjarni> heh, reminds me of when I tested a patch for the mac video driver. It contained a bug so it switched colours on some computers. I got max blue on all pixels and red and green values got switched 01:31:12 <Bjarni> that looked... interesting 01:31:22 <Bjarni> the game worked though 01:31:45 <picitlama> you dont need lsd 01:34:07 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498F8C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:34:50 <Bjarni> ... 01:35:04 <Bjarni> don't do drugs 01:35:29 <Bjarni> oh, at one time some guy showed up here and claimed to be high 01:35:34 <Bjarni> for the first time ever 01:35:42 <Bjarni> somehow that appeared to be right 01:36:33 <Bjarni> and he told all sorts of stuff and the next day, he completely forgot what he said and then he went "oh fuck, did I say so many personal secrets" 01:36:42 <Bjarni> well, how else would we know :P 01:36:55 <Blue> lol 01:38:48 <Bjarni> he also made wicked claims like he knew ludde personally (he was offline at the time) and that ludde did drugs pretty often 01:39:18 <Bjarni> well, he got a .au domain and ludde got a .se domain.... somehow I didn't really imagine those two meeting on the streets that often 01:39:44 <picitlama> :) 01:40:53 <Bjarni> also ludde do not appear to be the guy, who goes to discos and do drugs 01:40:54 <Blue> Is this a quite time to be here? 01:41:03 <picitlama> yeah, like KUDr, who have a .net host from MA, but lives in .cz 01:41:26 <picitlama> and so KUDr rarely meets with himself on the streets :) 01:42:04 <Bjarni> picitlama: you look at the wrong line. He got a .cz domain, but is connected to xenon.oftc.net in MA 01:42:49 <picitlama> i know :) 01:43:07 <picitlama> there are almost 3 am, so this is the best i can produce 01:43:12 * Sacro wanders in off the streats 01:43:15 <Sacro> *streets 01:43:27 <Bjarni> oh 01:43:37 <Bjarni> that's how you get those wicked dates 01:44:03 <Bjarni> I mean, how else will you end up with dates, who end up in mental hospitals ;) 01:45:23 <Sacro> that was only the one 01:49:28 <Bjarni> you only had one date? 01:50:24 <Sacro> no, we didnt even date 01:51:55 <picitlama> sad 01:55:01 <Sacro> wow its thursday 01:55:23 <Bjarni> you fucked her and you didn't even date? 01:55:30 <Bjarni> what happened? 01:55:31 <Sacro> indeed 01:55:46 <Bjarni> did she just show up at your door at random and went "let's fuck"? 01:55:57 <Sacro> she had just been dumped, needed somewhere to stay, and was feeling a bit... lonely 01:56:21 <Sacro> so i paused my game of openttd, and we did... 01:56:22 <Bjarni> so you screwed her over and sent her to a mental hospital? 01:56:38 <Sacro> i never sent her 01:56:55 <Bjarni> well, your actions did 01:57:02 <Sacro> she was nutty before 01:57:20 <Bjarni> no question there 01:57:28 <Bjarni> she fucked you 01:57:36 <Sacro> ^_^ 01:57:40 <Bjarni> that qualifies for something of a nutcase 01:57:56 <Bjarni> but 01:57:59 <Bjarni> what about you? 01:58:08 <Bjarni> you want your kid's mom to be like that? 01:58:18 <Sacro> well... 01:58:19 <Sacro> no 01:58:25 *** tosse [tosse@tosse.pp.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:58:39 <Bjarni> then why did you fuck her? 01:58:45 <Sacro> er... 01:58:48 <Bjarni> you should know how that turns out 01:58:57 <Sacro> yeah... 02:00:04 <Bjarni> "yeah..." is an interesting answer to a why question 02:00:17 <Sacro> because i was in the mood for it 02:00:20 <Sacro> and so was she 02:00:24 <Sacro> so it seemed like a good idea 02:00:35 <Bjarni> scary 02:01:00 <Bjarni> Sacro in the mood to make children 02:01:17 <Sacro> noo... not for making children 02:01:32 *** Digitalfox is now known as Digitalfox_Away 02:01:47 <Bjarni> then what did you do? 02:01:58 <Sacro> errr... went on irc 02:02:05 <Sacro> came in here in fact 02:02:19 <Bjarni> when was this? 02:02:27 * Bjarni presumes that he got logs of this event 02:02:31 *** tosse [tosse@tosse.pp.se] has joined #openttd 02:02:34 <Sacro> about a year ago 02:02:48 <Bjarni> however I don't recall anybody in here, who was taken to a mental hospital 02:02:56 <Bjarni> but if you say that's the case, then... 02:02:56 <Sacro> she didnt come in here 02:03:01 <Bjarni> ahh 02:03:26 <Bjarni> so you just took her in from the street, fucked her and then you went on IRC? 02:03:27 <Sacro> hmm 02:03:33 <Sacro> i need someone who can read dutch 02:03:37 <Sacro> no she was a friends ex 02:03:47 <Sacro> 3. Vanuit de game map start je Lfscracker op, vul daar je naam in en een eigen WW minimaal 8 karakters lang. 02:04:02 <Sacro> that line makes no sense 02:04:06 <Bjarni> it does 02:04:30 <Bjarni> the last part says "minimum 8 characters in length" (password?) 02:05:00 <Bjarni> I don't know what a WW is though 02:05:06 <Bjarni> but it's one of those 02:05:10 <Bjarni> and there are just one of them 02:05:18 <Sacro> hmmm... 02:05:18 <CIA-1> belugas * r8050 /trunk/ (10 files in 2 dirs): 02:05:18 <CIA-1> -Codechange: Rename map member extra to m6, since its usage has been widden. 02:05:18 <CIA-1> Only doc landscape_grid.html has been updated, landscape.html will be done latter. 02:05:18 <CIA-1> -CodeChange: Replace a direct access to m6 with SetTropicZone in InitializeLandscape, as it is the only part of m6 still untouched without the brute-forced m6=0 02:05:32 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-136-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:05:58 <Bjarni> if you revealed a bit about where you found this, it might be a bit easier 02:06:27 <Bjarni> it's something about starting a map and then something needs to be at least 8 characters long 02:06:39 <Bjarni> but without the context, I can't decode the rest 02:06:50 <Sacro> its...a crack for a game 02:06:58 <Bjarni> LOL 02:07:14 <Bjarni> you got a crack for a game in Dutch and then you ask me on how to use it??? 02:07:17 <Sacro> 1. Installeer Lfs.exe op je pc 02:07:17 <Sacro> 2. Kopieer uit de map CRACK Lfscracker naar de directorie waar de game is geinstalleerd ! 02:07:17 <Sacro> 3. Vanuit de game map start je Lfscracker op, vul daar je naam in en een eigen WW minimaal 8 karakters lang. 02:07:17 <Sacro> 4. In de map mod staan nog wat addon's om de game wat aan te kleden. 02:07:19 <Sacro> yes i do :) 02:07:21 <Bjarni> that's gold :D 02:07:53 <Bjarni> you do know that I don't officially speak Dutch, right? 02:08:00 <Sacro> i thought you where dutch 02:08:07 * Bjarni slaps Sacro 02:08:11 <Sacro> >< 02:08:16 <Sacro> so where are you from? 02:08:33 <Bjarni> I got a tip for you 02:08:38 <Bjarni> get a refund on your school money 02:08:55 <Bjarni> at least regarding geography 02:09:10 <Bjarni> you don't even know the name of the country across the waters from where you live 02:09:19 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 02:09:33 <Sacro> due east? 02:09:34 <Sacro> germany 02:09:46 <Bjarni> I even think we live somewhat near the same road (at least according to E number) 02:10:09 <Sacro> yeah... the M62/A63/E62 i think 02:11:16 <Bjarni> hey, who moved Hull southwards? 02:11:16 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:26 <Bjarni> it's not directly due east 02:11:37 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-168-019.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:40 <Bjarni> more like heading 80-85 02:11:41 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 02:12:29 <Sacro> i dunno 02:12:56 <Bjarni> 3. Vanuit de game map start je Lfscracker op, vul daar je naam in en een eigen WW minimaal 8 karakters lang. <--- "when the game map starts up (cracked version), write your name of at least 8 characters" 02:12:59 <Bjarni> would that make sense? 02:13:52 <Sacro> yeah... i assume i have to create a new character 02:14:10 <Sacro> dont mention this to lolman, he wont be best pleased... 02:15:43 <Bjarni> lolman is too short 02:15:49 <Bjarni> it should be at least 8 chars 02:15:50 <Bjarni> :P 02:15:52 <Sacro> heh 02:16:04 <Sacro> its only as long as Bjarni 02:16:07 <Bjarni> but what does lolman got to do with this? 02:17:08 <Bjarni> I think you aren't allowed to use spaces... or something 02:17:15 <Sacro> hmmm maybe 02:17:29 <Bjarni> but why should I not mention this to lolman? 02:17:51 <Sacro> cos he'd want me to pay for it 02:18:01 <Bjarni> what is it? 02:18:06 <Bjarni> the game he sells? 02:18:13 <Sacro> noo he doesnt sell it 02:18:20 <Sacro> he just plays it a lot, and wants to beat me in races 02:18:43 <Bjarni> you are easily beaten 02:18:48 <Bjarni> I just beat you at Dutch 02:19:26 <Bjarni> and remember that I have never been to NL, or received Dutch language education of any kind 02:19:39 *** nairan [~maui_key@p5498F89D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:20:50 <Sacro> hehe, that works 02:20:56 <Sacro> :o 02:21:04 <Sacro> you used to have a .nl network 02:21:43 <Bjarni> no 02:22:13 <Bjarni> I used to use a .nl DNS server because my own screwed up and I could not locate www.tt-forums.net 02:22:19 <Bjarni> it gave me the wrong IP 02:22:28 <Sacro> thats why i thought you where netherlandish 02:25:28 <picitlama> hm. 02:25:32 <Bjarni> that was for a few months... and more than a year ago 02:25:41 <picitlama> i also understand this dutch :) 02:26:30 <picitlama> i am not from an indoeuropean language family :) 02:26:56 <Bjarni> shh picitlama 02:27:04 <Bjarni> Sacro failed big time on this 02:27:09 <picitlama> oh, sorry. 02:27:10 <Bjarni> let's not make him feel any worse 02:27:13 <Bjarni> :P 02:27:52 <Bjarni> actually people tend to get really surprised when I reply to stuff written in Dutch 02:28:36 <Bjarni> like after I read the wikipedia article on the Dutch catenary system, I commented on why I think it's poorly operated and why they should change voltage and so on 02:28:49 <Bjarni> and the channel went "wtf, you can read this" 02:28:50 <Bjarni> :D 02:29:09 <picitlama> once i was in the company with several slavic people - croatian, slovak, ukraina, russien, bulgar, and so on. They can speak with each other, without too much trouble. 02:29:27 <picitlama> for me, dutch something like this, in simple things and in computers. 02:29:46 <picitlama> i know a little english, and once for three years i learned german. 02:29:56 <picitlama> so, i know a very little dutch also :) 02:29:57 <Bjarni> Dutch is somewhat like a mix of English, Danish and German 02:30:16 <Bjarni> knowing all 3 of those, I can estimate pretty well what those guys write 02:30:33 <picitlama> yes, i dont know Danish, this is your advantage 02:30:50 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B763F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:32:00 <Bjarni> also reading technical articles is a challenge for the technical mind, not the language skills 02:32:05 <Bjarni> (more or less) 02:32:16 <Bjarni> reading a fictional book is way harder 02:33:55 <Bjarni> anyway 02:33:57 <Bjarni> goodnight 02:34:01 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:16 *** Eddi|zuHause3 [~johekr@p54B7651C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:40:55 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:11:12 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:16:02 <Sacro> !openttd svn 03:16:02 <_42_> Sacro: SVN: svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ; WebSVN: http://svn.openttd.org/ 03:16:06 <Sacro> !openttd svn latest 03:16:08 <_42_> Sacro: SVN: svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ; WebSVN: http://svn.openttd.org/ 03:16:11 <Sacro> !openttd svn version 03:16:12 <_42_> Sacro: SVN: svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk ; WebSVN: http://svn.openttd.org/ 03:16:14 <Sacro> hmm... 03:16:18 <Sacro> !openttd commit 03:16:22 <_42_> Commit by belugas :: r8050 /trunk/ (10 files) (2007-01-11 02:05:13 UTC) 03:16:24 <_42_> -Codechange: Rename map member extra to m6, since its usage has been widden. 03:16:26 <_42_> Only doc landscape_grid.html has been updated, landscape.html will be done latter. 03:16:27 <Sacro> there we go.. 03:16:28 <_42_> -CodeChange: Replace a direct access to m6 with SetTropicZone in InitializeLandscape, as it is the only part of m6 still untouched without the brute-forced m6=0 03:30:35 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:33 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:51:04 *** dp [~dp@p54B2DF24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 03:58:01 *** dp_ [~dp@p54B2FEA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:03:02 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-234-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #openttd 04:13:12 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B844E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:17:27 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B829AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 04:17:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 04:26:47 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:34:39 *** Rubidium1 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show all of them) 05:10:15 *** Netsplit over, joins: Prof_Frink, ln-, guru3, @MiHaMiX, qfh, A1win, coronel, pv2b, stillunknown, KUDr (+58 more) 05:22:15 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:10 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-140-81.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/2006120612]] 05:54:04 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 05:54:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:14 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 05:59:55 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 06:16:54 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-150-11.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:17 <CIA-1> miham * r8051 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt unfinished/greek.txt unfinished/japanese.txt): 06:25:17 <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-11 07:24:01 06:25:17 <CIA-1> german - 1 deleted by moewe2 (1) 06:25:17 <CIA-1> greek - 3 fixed by Kesnar (3) 06:25:17 <CIA-1> japanese - 273 fixed by ickoonite (273) 06:37:21 *** Shipon [~plop@4aa54-2-82-224-87-39.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 06:41:02 *** Shipon [~plop@4aa54-2-82-224-87-39.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 07:03:38 *** asdfas [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 07:04:57 *** Ailure [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:15:24 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 07:15:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 07:15:59 <Celestar> morning 07:20:14 *** Tron_ [~tron@p54A3DB99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:22:20 *** blathijs_ [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:22:23 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 07:22:48 *** Rubidium1 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as Rexxars 09:45:49 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:07 <Darkvater> morning 09:54:26 *** BurningFeetMan [~chatzilla@CPE-60-227-105-136.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 1.5.0.9/2006120612]] 09:55:09 <Darkvater> KUDr: http://darkvater.homeip.net/~tfarago/openttd/cpp_questions.txt 09:55:16 <Darkvater> my questions, issues with C++ 09:55:30 <Darkvater> most probably the extern stuff is unfixable if that is how C++ works 09:56:12 <KUDr_wrk> Darkvater: i am not sure if it should work so 09:56:42 <KUDr_wrk> specs tell that what is not 'static' it has external linkage by default 09:56:54 <KUDr_wrk> so it was surprise for me 09:57:17 <KUDr_wrk> for normal variables you don't need compiler pass extern first 09:57:23 <KUDr_wrk> but in thic case yes 09:57:35 <KUDr_wrk> Tron would know the answer i think 09:57:50 *** GoneWack1 [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:58:26 <Darkvater> ok, everything off, I'm back in an hour 09:58:30 <peter1138> bye dv 09:58:35 <KUDr_wrk> ok 09:58:39 *** BurningFeetMan [~chatzilla@CPE-60-227-105-136.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:04:50 *** GoneWacko [~gonewacko@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:04:50 *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko 10:21:56 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 10:21:59 *** blathijs [~matthijs@katherina.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 10:22:38 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:24:50 *** Digitalfox_Away [~chatzilla@bl8-41-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 10:25:33 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:34:46 <CIA-1> KUDr * r8052 /trunk/src/ (npf.cpp pathfind.cpp rail.h rail_cmd.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): - Codechange: RemoveFirstTrack() and RemoveFirstTrackdir() now accept pointer to TrackBits/TrackdirBits instead of reference. 10:36:02 <CIA-1> miham * r8053 /trunk/src/lang/german.txt: [Translations] Reverted german translators work (moewe2), since it looks suspicious 10:38:50 <peter1138> suspicious 10:38:50 <peter1138> heh 10:39:09 <Nigel> my thinking too 10:41:17 <picitlama> funny words, maybe 10:41:28 <picitlama> or subliminal political messages 10:42:35 <MiHaMiX> suspicious means: 10:42:35 <MiHaMiX> -STR_ENGINE_SORT_COST :Kosten 10:42:36 <MiHaMiX> +STR_ENGINE_SORT_COST : 10:42:38 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 10:42:38 *** hylje [hylje@194.187.214.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:42 *** hylje [hylje@194.187.214.214] has joined #openttd 10:42:43 *** Neonox_ [~Neonox@offb-590ebfb3.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 10:42:46 <Nigel> MiHaMiX: Kosten is correct 10:42:55 <MiHaMiX> in the meanwhile the translator undid also 10:43:00 <MiHaMiX> Nigel: yeah, that was the old value 10:43:07 <MiHaMiX> Nigel: the new value became "" 10:43:12 *** Neonox_ [~Neonox@offb-590ebfb3.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 10:43:13 <MiHaMiX> Nigel: that's why I reverted it 10:43:39 <Nigel> yeah, i just looked at the diff wrong then 10:43:46 <MiHaMiX> any other question regarding 'suspicious' and r8053? :) 10:44:18 <Nigel> are criminal charges likely to be laid? ;) 10:44:23 <picitlama> igen, hogy besolyásolja ez világuralmi törekvéseidet? 10:44:28 <MiHaMiX> Nigel: no 10:44:34 <MiHaMiX> picitlama: in english, please :) 10:45:00 <picitlama> sorry, how this influence your world domination plans? 10:45:13 <MiHaMiX> picitlama: it doesn't affect my world domination plans at all since I don't have such 10:45:21 <Nigel> picitlama: they no longer cost anything 10:45:45 <picitlama> MiHaMiX: time to have one. 10:45:55 <MiHaMiX> picitlama: no, time to go back working :) 10:45:57 <MiHaMiX> bbl :) 10:46:31 <picitlama> yes 10:49:15 *** Neonox [~Neonox@offb-590eaf79.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:58:57 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8054 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: Use a template function instead of a macro for evaluating NewGRF var adjusts 11:05:07 <CIA-1> celestar * r8055 /trunk/src/ (19 files): 11:05:07 <CIA-1> -Codechange: Replace the different max, dmax, maxu whatever macros by a simple 11:05:07 <CIA-1> template function max(), that requires two arguments of the same type. While I'm 11:05:07 <CIA-1> at it change a variable called "max" to "maxval" in a function that calls max(). 11:08:21 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 11:20:17 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 11:20:28 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 11:23:14 *** asdfas [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:32 *** Ailure [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #openttd 11:43:54 *** Digitalfox_Away [~chatzilla@bl7-176-107.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 11:43:59 *** Digitalfox_Away is now known as Digitalfox 11:44:06 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 11:44:06 <Digitalfox> !logs 12:03:33 * Brianetta sprays spittle all over that OTTD Unlimited thread 12:04:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a feeling my compiles take forever... 12:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> real 2m17.629s 12:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> user 1m46.087s 12:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> sys 0m7.796s 12:06:02 <stillunknown> Eddi: most people except a few say it's around 20% slower 12:06:15 <stillunknown> there have been been a few that said it doubled or more 12:06:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, i can't say anything about that, i never timed before 12:06:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> but it took forever before also 12:09:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's directly comparable, but this is what miniin takes: 12:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> real 2m15.928s 12:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> user 1m44.539s 12:09:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> sys 0m10.089s 12:10:34 <stillunknown> Celestar: i had a patch to replace max, min and abs with templates, so if your interested i can probably fix all the conflicts 12:10:56 <Celestar> stillunknown: go ahead :) 12:11:04 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: 71 seconds here 12:11:32 <stillunknown> it'll take a while, there are shitloads of max calls out there 12:11:44 <stillunknown> *a lot of 12:11:46 <Celestar> sorry :( 12:11:55 <Celestar> if there are shitloads of max calls 12:12:00 <Celestar> then we have a fuckton of min calls 12:12:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> my processor is a Athlon XP 3000+ 12:12:14 <stillunknown> sorry for the wording, i corrected that 12:12:31 <stillunknown> just saying i have a few conflicts to fix :-) 12:12:41 <peter1138> heh 12:12:44 <peter1138> ttdpatch users are funny 12:12:49 <peter1138> especially some devs ;p 12:12:55 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: Athlon XP 3500+ here 12:12:58 <Celestar> peter1138: why so? 12:12:59 <peter1138> they just can't understand the concept of openttd's newgrf loading system 12:13:02 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: er no 12:13:08 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: Athlon 64 3500+ 12:13:47 <peter1138> quite a few people don't realise that grfs are automatically chosen when you load a game 12:13:50 <stillunknown> Celestar: didn't look at your change yet, but are you implicitly determining the datatype? 12:14:36 <Celestar> stillunknown: yes. 12:14:44 *** BurningFeetMan [~chatzilla@CPE-60-227-105-136.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:46 <Celestar> peter1138: in TTPD as well? 12:18:04 <peter1138> i don't know, i've never used it much 12:18:19 <peter1138> i know our method is different though :) 12:18:39 <peter1138> gah, bzipping ~ 3 GB takes ages 12:19:24 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: bzip2 tooks less, IIRC 12:19:32 <peter1138> ... 12:19:37 <peter1138> tooks? 12:19:40 <MiHaMiX> takes 12:19:44 <Brianetta> MiHaMiX: Did you -9 it? 12:19:46 <peter1138> and yes, of course i'm using bzip2 12:19:57 <peter1138> who ever uses bzip? 12:20:06 <Brianetta> I didn't realise there was a bzip that wasn't bzip2 12:20:14 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: sorry, I've read gzip for the first time 12:20:15 <peter1138> bzip2, v 1.0.3, heh 12:20:23 <peter1138> ah 12:20:24 <peter1138> well sorry 12:20:29 <peter1138> but gzip is far faster than bzip2 12:20:36 <peter1138> it doesn't compress as well of course 12:20:38 <Brianetta> Did you -9 it? 12:20:41 <peter1138> no 12:20:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> bzip should me much slower than gzip 12:20:48 <peter1138> default 12:20:51 <Brianetta> bzip2 has better compression 12:20:57 <MiHaMiX> Brianetta: no, but I used to 12:20:59 <Brianetta> much better 12:21:12 <Brianetta> than gzip 12:21:16 <MiHaMiX> once I recall I compressed 200M of system log (from an attack) to 97kb :) 12:21:23 <Brianetta> gzip is used because the tgz is a cross-platform standard 12:21:50 <Brianetta> Gentoo uses .tbz2 files as packages - an extension you only see there 12:22:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> bzip also needs lots of memory 12:22:02 <peter1138> .tar.bz2 is good enough for me 12:22:10 <Brianetta> peter1138: and is correct 12:22:13 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: last time I compressed 1G took ~1-2 minutes 12:22:14 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: 8MB is a lot? 12:22:29 <Brianetta> peter1138: It is for embedded systems (: 12:22:31 <peter1138> true :) 12:22:44 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: *shrug* it's still slower than gzip 12:22:55 <peter1138> i'm doing this on a 1GHz machine, so... 12:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: it probably depends on the block size 12:24:14 <peter1138> p'rap, -9 is 900KB 12:24:15 <MiHaMiX> 1367823.980:1, 0.000 bits/byte, 100.00% saved, 1073741824 in, 785 out. 12:24:20 <MiHaMiX> real 0m34.500s 12:24:20 <MiHaMiX> user 0m32.959s 12:24:20 <MiHaMiX> sys 0m2.476s 12:24:38 <MiHaMiX> compressing 1G of zero :) 12:24:45 <peter1138> useful 12:25:02 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: yeah, some virus scanners identify the compressed file as mailbomb :D 12:25:26 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: btw, it really is useful 12:26:02 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: we used the zero-files to fill up the windows XP partitions completely before creating compressed partition image 12:26:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> a dd command uses much less than 785 byte 12:26:38 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: and since windows lacks /dev/zero, we transferred the compressed zerofiles and unpacked on windows 12:27:15 <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, but I couldn't write to the windows partition under linux 12:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> mingw? 12:27:37 <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: the ntfs-3g driver did not exist that time 12:27:53 <peter1138> MiHaMiX: "lol" 12:28:03 <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause2: the image OSes used to be as minimalistic as possible 12:29:16 <MiHaMiX> peter1138: it worked like charm, we were able to compress an 40GB WinXP partition (used space: 4GB) to ~1.8GB 12:32:12 *** l_Blue_l [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 12:32:25 <CIA-1> celestar * r8056 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Remove swap_byte, swap_byte, and siblings (some were not used anyway) and replace them by our SwapT implementation 12:32:36 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-176-107.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:37 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-187-145.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 12:35:02 <Brianetta> Sergej_S - what an enigma 12:35:12 <peter1138> indeed 12:35:25 <Brianetta> It's like part of some alien world intruding into our own 12:37:02 <Darkvater> ttdp stores newgrf's in the savegame but if you do'nt specify them in your newgrfw.cfg they are not loaded 12:37:09 <Darkvater> this meaning that I'm back :) 12:38:09 <blathijs> stillunknown: It seems the boost library has some decent pool implementations 12:38:15 <CIA-1> celestar * r8057 /trunk/src/macros.h: -Codechange: Declare the "new" max template as static line. 12:39:04 <Darkvater> blathijs: no boost please 12:39:14 <blathijs> Darkvater: bad experience? 12:39:22 <Darkvater> blathijs: it takes forever to compile on g++ 12:39:37 <Darkvater> KUDr has experienced 3-5 minutes for a single template file 12:39:55 <blathijs> Darkvater: We would only need the pool part, but I think their implementation is too bloated anyway 12:40:10 <blathijs> The interface seems nice, but we don't need all of it 12:40:50 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 12:41:42 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489C208.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:47:46 <CIA-1> celestar * r8058 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: Replaced an occurence of (uint32)-1 by UINT_MAX 12:48:57 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489DB78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:01:39 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46ac4.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:01:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 13:02:17 <Digitalfox> Please give opnions :) http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Roadmap_0.6 13:02:27 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:19 <Celestar> Digitalfox: custombridgeheads need a "?" .. it depends on whether we can overcome problems 13:03:31 <Digitalfox> ok 13:03:53 <Celestar> Digitalfox: it is possible that 0.6 has some balacing 13:04:19 <Brianetta> Celestar: What problems are there, and how does Patch overcome them? 13:04:40 <Brianetta> Is newindustries planned for later? 13:04:58 <Celestar> Brianetta: the problem being that the bridge is a wormhole and it crashes on reversing. The PAtch doesn't have the problem because it doesn't have the flexible bridges. 13:05:02 <Brianetta> Digitalfox: I believe newsignals might make it (: 13:05:16 <Celestar> Brianetta: ask the newgrf people like Maedhros Belugas and peter1138 13:05:24 <Brianetta> Celestar: Oh - it's broken by the magicness thing? 13:05:38 <Celestar> Brianetta: it's not really broken, but it makes it waaaay more difficult that it needs be 13:05:50 <Celestar> Brianetta: so the question is whether or not to wait for newmap 13:05:57 <Brianetta> Would certainly make things easier 13:06:11 <Celestar> with newmaps, things would be very simple 13:06:22 <Brianetta> It's a shame you can't link additional tiles to given tiles... 13:06:55 <Digitalfox> Brianetta: Yeah for now let's keep roadmap just with things that are already under work or almost under work 13:07:03 <Brianetta> of course, you'd have to give each one a pointer to adjoining tiles 13:07:09 <Brianetta> a totally incompatible architecture 13:07:40 <Digitalfox> Brianetta: I wan't roadmap to be a real and true source of information :) 13:07:50 <Brianetta> Digitalfox: It'll be very conservative then 13:07:52 <Digitalfox> *want 13:08:05 <Brianetta> and unlikely to advance beyond the next stable release 13:08:25 <Brianetta> Unlike a real roadmap, it'll just be what's visible through the windscreen 13:08:31 <Brianetta> to bend an analogy to near breaking point 13:08:41 <Celestar> hehe 13:09:43 * Celestar shakes his fist at svn 13:10:12 <Brianetta> svn is good, whilst still retaining the ability to suck *and* blow at the same time, on occasion. 13:10:17 <Digitalfox> Brianetta: I didn't get it since it didn't make any sence to me.. :\ But i mean is that since theres no real plans from openttd team to what really do for 0.6, we should wait until things are planned.. 13:10:28 <Celestar> Brianetta: lol yeah 13:10:40 <Digitalfox> Not adding wishes or things you and i would like 13:10:48 <Brianetta> Digitalfox: I think a roadmap implies a plan, and I doubt there's a plan 13:11:05 <Digitalfox> Brianetta: Exactly 13:11:10 <Celestar> Brianetta: we're seriously considering making one :P 13:11:26 <Brianetta> Celestar: That's an improvement. Will there be a design doc at any point? 13:13:09 *** Digitalfox is now known as Digitalfox_Away 13:13:21 <Celestar> Brianetta: possibly 13:14:31 <roboboy> with the new map array will it be possible to make morails work more like he real thing? 13:14:50 <Celestar> yes possibly 13:15:09 <roboboy> cool that will make me like monoail more 13:15:16 <blathijs> morails? monail? 13:15:54 * roboboy avoids monorails now since i dont like the fact they have to take a whole tile up 13:16:07 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:16:11 <Brianetta> roboboy: Sae goes for trains 13:16:17 <Brianetta> They take a whole tile up 13:16:34 <Brianetta> when double track IRL occupies about 10% more land than single 13:16:46 <CIA-1> celestar * r8059 / (107 files in 12 dirs): [cbh] - Sync with r7788:8032 from trunk 13:16:48 <roboboy> yeah but monorail IRL can be inbetween roads 13:16:58 <Brianetta> Only if elevated 13:17:10 <Brianetta> Real monorail issue is that TT's monorails aren't elevated 13:17:15 <Brianetta> or elevable 13:17:15 <roboboy> yeah 13:17:29 <Digitalfox_Away> And does the start of works in a new map array going to happen soon or other things first? 13:17:32 <Celestar> Monorails Schonorails 13:17:35 <roboboy> if it was elevable then id use it more 13:17:43 <Celestar> Digitalfox_Away: first, the saveload systems needs overhaul 13:17:48 <Brianetta> I just hope that the new map will allow rail lines to be paired on a single tile 13:18:01 <Brianetta> with a variety of switch types to get them back to single tile mode (: 13:18:18 <Digitalfox_Away> Celestar: Saveload it needs?? :\ I thought it worked fine :| 13:19:20 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/screenshot.png 13:19:20 <Brianetta> woo 13:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> i thought the new map plans were exactly for variable bridges (aka elevated rails) 13:19:27 <Brianetta> finally, a shot with evidence of play 13:19:50 <Darkvater> still no train :) 13:19:55 <Brianetta> we live in hope 13:20:15 <Brianetta> So often, the entire shot is blocked with "Subsidy offered: Blah,..." 13:20:17 <Celestar> Digitalfox_Away: it'S very unflexible. we need a format where we can make changes faster 13:20:27 <Brianetta> so I'll be altering the message settings next game 13:20:29 <Digitalfox_Away> Celestar: ah ok :) 13:20:41 <Brianetta> Just disasters, I think 13:20:49 <Brianetta> perhaps "Citizens Celebrate" 13:20:54 <Brianetta> but no more than that 13:21:31 <Brianetta> Incidentally, that shot is as small as I could make the client before multiplayer messages made it crash 13:21:45 <Celestar> Rubidium: ok renaming was VERY simple :) 13:21:48 <Brianetta> so I assumed it was the smallest safe server resolution 13:22:00 <Brianetta> the smaller, the less CPU (: 13:22:08 <Maedhros> Brianetta: why does it refresh every 7 and a half minutes? does that have any particular significance? 13:22:24 <Celestar> Rubidium: took 5 seconds \o/ 13:22:28 <Brianetta> Maedhros: It fit between the 5 and 10 of two other sheduled tasks in autopilot 13:22:36 <Brianetta> but no, no significance whatsoever 13:23:06 <Brianetta> I should make all the timers into prime numbers 13:23:16 <Brianetta> then they'd rarely run together 13:23:32 <Maedhros> heh, nice :) 13:24:05 <stillunknown> anyone here familiar with operator overloading in c++? 13:24:09 <Brianetta> Technically, they don't actually run at the same time 13:24:14 <Brianetta> It's event based, and single tasking 13:24:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: you'd probably get further with a _real_ question 13:25:27 <Darkvater> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=540543#540543 13:25:37 <Darkvater> is THAT a Red Alert bomber? 13:26:01 <stillunknown> when overloading an operator like [], the argument to the overload function is the bar in foo[bar], but were does it get the foo part from? 13:26:11 <Brianetta> Darkvater: Yes 13:26:18 <Darkvater> he it is :O 13:26:18 <Brianetta> See peter1138's reply 13:27:06 <Darkvater> doesn't that guy kinda realize that the screenshots LOOK LIKE CRAP? 13:27:32 <Celestar> wtf is that? 13:27:33 <Darkvater> different water, non-aligned sprites 13:27:37 <Darkvater> jezus 13:27:42 <roboboy> where 13:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: foo[bar] translates to foo.operator[](bar) 13:27:54 <hylje> KIROV REPORTING 13:27:58 <Darkvater> and that winxp close button 13:28:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> so treat it like foo.method(bar) 13:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> (note that i am a theoretics guy, so names may vary from reality, only concepts matter) 13:30:03 <roboboy> Brianetta i like the live webcam im looking at ocean now 13:30:20 <Brianetta> roboboy: Yeah, it can be boring 13:30:59 <roboboy> i had three different ones open all boring 13:31:11 <roboboy> the one on the server page is just as bronig 13:31:28 <roboboy> i acidently reopened the ser page in a new tab 13:32:16 * roboboy waits for it to update 13:32:35 <roboboy> i can see a depot and tracks but no train 13:33:33 <roboboy> do they update all at once? 13:33:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> it'd be better if it had a hook into the vehicle/station/town/etc. lists 13:33:47 <Eddi|zuHause2> and choose a random position from there 13:34:08 <roboboy> yeah 13:36:18 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387E089.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:38:27 <roboboy> still nothing 13:38:41 <Brianetta> If I say anything that turns out to be factually incorrect on that NFO vs XML shouting match, do feel free to correct me. (: 13:39:28 <roboboy> why cant people just live with nfo 13:39:34 <Celestar> Brianetta: Eddi|zuHause2: Digitalfox_Away: http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/the-future.pdf 13:39:37 <Brianetta> because it's fugly 13:39:40 <Celestar> RFC 13:39:47 * Brianetta Rs FC 13:39:49 <roboboy> i geuse 13:40:21 <peter1138> hmm, could we do v = vehicle[index] instead of v = GetVehicle(index)? heh 13:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's gonna take a while to read ;) 13:40:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: yeah, with overloaded operators that should be possible 13:40:55 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:41:01 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: yes, you can start at page 4 13:41:11 <Celestar> Part II 13:41:15 <roboboy> Brianetta it isnt shwing animation, is it supposed to? 13:41:16 <Brianetta> 3.1.2 appears to have a superfluous A 13:41:30 <CIA-1> celestar * r8060 /branches/custombridgeheads/ (319 files in 13 dirs): [cbh] - Renamed all .c files to .cpp to get the cpp conversion merged 13:41:31 <Brianetta> roboboy: No, it's a screenshot, taken every 7 minutes 30 13:41:36 <roboboy> ok 13:41:55 <roboboy> a random one every time its loaded 13:42:08 <Brianetta> Celestar: needs proof-reading (: 13:42:11 <Brianetta> 1920th 13:42:29 <roboboy> no change yet 13:42:32 <Celestar> Brianetta: yes it does 13:43:27 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387EC34.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:44:19 <Darkvater> peter1138: we go back to simple array-assignments, eh? ;) 13:45:03 <Darkvater> with the powah of c++ ^^ 13:45:05 <roboboy> it just updated o a news message 13:45:27 <roboboy> is it supposed to autoupdate? or does the user have to refresh 13:45:30 <Darkvater> I wonder though if it's worth it, or even possible 13:45:41 <Darkvater> peter1138: since vehicle[] isnot an array but a pool 13:46:21 <Celestar> Darkvater: yes 13:46:29 <Celestar> Darkvater: [] is just an overloaded operator 13:46:38 <Celestar> just like tile + diagdirection :) 13:46:49 <Brianetta> roboboy: You will need to refresh it every seven and a half minutes 13:46:57 <roboboy> ok 13:47:07 <roboboy> its stuck on a news mwssage 13:47:20 <Darkvater> Celestar: ah ic 13:47:23 <Brianetta> There was a news message in front of the camera when the snap was taken 13:47:57 <blathijs> 14:46 <@Celestar> just like tile + diagdirection :) <-- huh? 13:48:01 <CIA-1> bjarni * r8061 /trunk/src/macros.h: 13:48:01 <CIA-1> -Fix r8055: obj-c can't handle templates 13:48:01 <CIA-1> We will need to figure out a nicer solution for this, but now OSX compiles again 13:48:03 <Celestar> blathijs: yes that would work 13:48:28 * Celestar slaps Bjarni 13:48:30 <peter1138> Darkvater: i'm not saying it's a good idea :) 13:48:36 <Celestar> "DOESN'T" 13:48:37 <blathijs> Celestar: What do you mean by it? 13:48:39 <Celestar> not "DON'T" 13:48:41 <peter1138> in fact it's not 13:49:17 <roboboy> gnight 13:49:34 *** roboboy is now known as robobed 13:50:16 <Brianetta> I love the interacting sine waves 13:50:52 <Darkvater> peter1138: well if [] is operated in that it handles all that GetVehicle() does now, it might be useful...but perhaps confusing 13:51:15 <Celestar> Brianetta: good. 13:51:15 <peter1138> Darkvater: Vehicle *v = vehicle[x]; 13:51:23 <peter1138> Darkvater: v++; 13:51:44 <Celestar> peter1138: that would of course work :P 13:51:49 <Darkvater> he 13:51:59 <peter1138> yeah, overload the ++... 13:52:01 <peter1138> but.. 13:52:06 <peter1138> pointless stuff we shouldn't do 13:52:58 <blathijs> I think we should try not to overload operators as much as possible 13:53:51 <Darkvater> let's over load int++ so it does -- 13:54:08 <blathijs> Would we ever need a pool that allocates n bytes instead of sizeof(something) bytes? 13:54:09 <Brianetta> Celestar: I don't think that short aircraft trips miss a penalty 13:54:11 <robobed> the webcam is the same everywhere now 13:54:19 <Brianetta> taxi time is constant 13:54:43 <Brianetta> and if busy, the plane can spend most of its time in holding 13:54:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E4E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:54:59 <Brianetta> these have a greater proportional effect on short-haul flights 13:55:24 <Darkvater> FUXCK 13:55:27 <Darkvater> my screen went black 13:55:33 <Darkvater> am I even typing in the right window? 13:55:38 <Darkvater> stupid laptapos :s 13:55:39 <Celestar> ROFL 13:55:50 <Brianetta> Celestar: Are you proposing a reliability half-life? (: 13:55:58 <Celestar> Brianetta: something like that yes 13:56:06 <Celestar> Brianetta: something a bit better than what we have now 13:56:17 <Brianetta> That's good, too 13:56:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 13:56:56 <Brianetta> I think train cost balancing needs to factor in a cost per tile-with-track 13:57:05 <Brianetta> rather than just penalising faster vehicles 13:57:10 <Celestar> yes. 13:57:19 <Celestar> I have a patch that gives you some cost for each tile with a trackbit 13:57:25 <Celestar> and extra if you have switches and signals 13:57:32 <Brianetta> with that cost doubled (or more) for electrified 13:57:43 <Brianetta> ooh, yes, we need signal costs 13:57:46 <Celestar> but faster trains need to have higher op costs 13:57:51 <Brianetta> then people pay more for a high capacity line 13:58:07 <Celestar> so that people don't send around coal with 600km/h 13:58:12 <Brianetta> Trains' op costs should be like the trains they model 13:58:21 <Brianetta> and coal wagons can be speed limited 13:58:27 <Celestar> Brianetta: so usage independent maintenance speed limits? 13:58:28 <Brianetta> in fact, with most newgrfs, are 13:58:57 <Brianetta> I didn't understand that 13:59:38 <Celestar> Brianetta: the thing is by putting costs to the train, tracks that are used more are "taxed" more heavilty 13:59:47 <Celestar> but no penalty for signals and switches 13:59:52 <Brianetta> No 13:59:56 <Brianetta> just speed limits to train 14:00:13 <Brianetta> but yes, I see where you're coming from 14:00:21 <Celestar> well running costs SHOULD be higher (more energy usage) 14:00:39 <Brianetta> perhaps some of the cost should be put onto the train 14:00:43 <Celestar> but ok I'll add track maintenance :) 14:00:57 <Brianetta> and the rest made for nsignals, nswitches, nbridges, ntunnels 14:01:06 <Brianetta> all of which require more maintenance than straight track 14:01:12 <Celestar> yes 14:01:16 <Celestar> exactly 14:01:33 <Brianetta> perhaps track segments per tile 14:01:42 <Brianetta> with a special case excluding parallel diagonals 14:01:47 <Celestar> yes 14:01:55 <Celestar> as I said I have such a diff and it is easy to implement 14:02:00 * Brianetta nods 14:02:24 <Brianetta> and people who signal every tile pay ten as much for signalling as me (: 14:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think passengers should be divided into two classes 14:02:54 <Darkvater> he, it was the right iwndow :) 14:02:54 <Brianetta> could even have random signalling failures if bank balance drops <0 14:03:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> local and express 14:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> with different models to price them 14:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> local traffic should mostly be based on distance, while express traffic should highly depend on speed 14:04:08 <Brianetta> Being able to set your fare is good 14:05:06 <Brianetta> 13:58 <sarah_pilot> edk256: God I love this game. 14:05:10 <Brianetta> Happy customer (: 14:05:23 <Darkvater> hehe 14:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem with customizable prices and stuff is that it usually lacks explanation how this affects everything 14:07:16 *** TinoM [~Tino@i5387E089.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:08:32 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 14:10:27 <Brianetta> Celestar: That's good. Only the track costings need adding. Don't forget catenary or other fixed power supply (maglev, perhaps) need to be balanced too. 14:10:39 <Brianetta> Nobody leaves catenary up if there are no electric trains. 14:10:47 <peter1138> newgrf has the capability to change railtype costs 14:10:51 <peter1138> we just don't support it 14:11:01 <Celestar> Brianetta: good 14:11:12 <Celestar> Brianetta: maglevs have totally different cost structure 14:11:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:20 <Brianetta> THat's helpful 14:11:31 <Brianetta> peter1138: Yeah, this is a kind of general look at default stuff 14:13:11 <Darkvater> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=540742#540742 14:13:38 <Darkvater> he, mr 'I'm going to code a new windowing/widget system in C++ but gave up after 2 days' whining about spaghetti code 14:14:02 *** TinoM| [~Tino@i5387E089.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:17:48 <Celestar> Brianetta: ok added 14:17:51 <Celestar> but not in pdf yet 14:20:00 <peter1138> hmm 14:25:28 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8062 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: change newgrf varaction2 value from signed to unsigned 14:27:46 *** robobed [~Leo@c211-30-116-5.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:07 <Brianetta> Celestar: You have a to that should be too in 8.1.1 14:28:19 <Celestar> er what? 14:28:30 <Brianetta> s/to/too/ in 8.1.1 14:28:36 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@ti131310a080-13218.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: edgepro: A man who smiles when things go wrong knows who to blame.] 14:28:44 <Brianetta> way to low 14:29:42 <Brianetta> there's a 1920th in the cars line in 3.1.3 14:29:51 <Brianetta> which harms comprehension 14:31:26 <peter1138> ? 14:31:50 <Brianetta> peter1138: Celestar's document 14:34:11 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 14:34:54 <Brianetta> I'm no NFO fan, and here I am, defending it. 14:35:10 <Brianetta> I think it's fugly as hell, but I do at least grok it. 14:35:22 <Brianetta> Even if I don't understand it. 14:36:18 <Darkvater> :) 14:40:20 <CIA-1> peter1138 * r8063 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Codechange: When evaluating newgrf varaction2s the 'last value' should start off at 0, and the result of the operation is remembered. 14:41:59 <hylje> trunk is .cpp? 14:41:59 <Brianetta> A webcam-shot on my server shows me that OpenTTD doesn't take screen size into account when wrapping chat lines 14:42:09 <hylje> seems so 14:42:17 <Brianetta> If your game screen width is less than the chat box width, you can't see text 14:42:24 <peter1138> hmm 14:42:31 <Darkvater> and it can also crash your client 14:42:33 <hylje> chat is still kinda hacky 14:42:35 <peter1138> i think the chat box width should match the screen width 14:42:45 <peter1138> maybe with a margin 14:42:48 <peter1138> and a max 14:42:57 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:43:11 <Darkvater> :( 14:43:12 <Brianetta> Darkvater: It never crashed for me until I went lower than 410 wide by 199 high 14:43:24 <Darkvater> you just have to resize the window continually a few times 14:43:26 <Brianetta> which is why I chose those odd numbers 14:43:41 <Darkvater> ah until; yeah 14:44:00 <Darkvater> it's so ugly, I had a go with it up gave up cause I didn't have an idea of how to do it 14:44:03 <Brianetta> I wanted the res as small as possible to reduce server load 14:44:04 <hylje> interesting magic numbers 14:44:17 <Brianetta> #openttdcoop played with 1x1 14:44:21 <Brianetta> which works, for ages 14:44:32 <Darkvater> also if you have your mouse in the chat area somewhere and the first message shows up, you get your mouse-cursor cloned ;p 14:44:45 <Brianetta> but I don't trust x<410 or y<199 14:44:57 <hylje> interesting 14:45:01 <hylje> battery was at 60% 14:45:13 <hylje> then i turned the proc up to 1.7GHz and battery died. 14:45:49 <Brianetta> "The engines cannae take it, Cap'n 14:45:50 <Brianetta> " 14:46:48 *** orudge` [~orudge@8afbfebe.resnet.st-andrews.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 14:46:48 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/screenshot.png 14:46:57 <Brianetta> See how my server saves a game when a player joins 14:47:16 <Brianetta> anti-vandalism measure 14:47:20 <Brianetta> highly effective 14:47:29 <Brianetta> the number is the unix date in hex 14:49:29 *** orudge [~orudge@138.251.254.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:50:47 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-150-11.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 14:51:34 <hylje> hex is great for condensing numbar 14:51:35 <hylje> s 14:51:43 <Brianetta> yeah 14:53:07 <Brianetta> Got a train on the webcam! 14:53:13 <hylje> :o 14:53:18 <hylje> incredible 14:53:21 <CIA-1> maedhros * r8064 /branches/newhouses/src/ (9 files in 2 dirs): 14:53:21 <CIA-1> [NewHouses] -Codechange: Save a list of the house ids being used, and which grf 14:53:21 <CIA-1> file they correspond to. This allows rearranging the order of newhouse grfs in 14:53:21 <CIA-1> the newgrf details window without the game crashing. It also means that grfs 14:53:21 <CIA-1> can be removed, at which point the houses defined by that grf revert to the 14:53:22 <CIA-1> original house type defined as their substitute. 14:53:31 <hylje> zomg, newhouses! 14:54:37 <hylje> does the webcam change the viewport 14:54:39 <Maedhros> oh yeah, and as an added bonus, games made with this branch before this commit won't load any more ;) 14:54:55 <hylje> somewhat expected 14:55:02 <hylje> branches are for fucking things up 14:55:40 <Darkvater> Celestar: I approve of the transfer change 14:55:49 <Darkvater> Celestar: but perhaps have source, source_tile 14:55:59 <Darkvater> after each other instead of source,dest,source_tile 14:56:13 <Darkvater> for DeliverGoods 14:56:17 <hylje> you changed the behaviour of transfer? 14:56:41 <Celestar> where? 14:56:52 <Darkvater> Celestar: can we also perhaps structify source? eg make itinto {StationID source; TileIndex source_tile'} 14:57:09 <Darkvater> Then you can just do ge->enroute_from = v->source 14:57:18 <Darkvater> and it copies both StationID and TileIndex 14:57:24 <Darkvater> I think that's much nicer 14:57:28 <Celestar> Darkvater: 1) it's just temporary, 2) it means messing with saveload more 14:57:45 <Darkvater> 1) still I'd prefere 14:57:53 <Darkvater> 2) it wouldn't mess with saveload 14:58:06 <Celestar> what place exactly are you talking about? 14:58:10 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has joined #openttd 14:58:14 <Darkvater> you just save v->cargo_source.station and v->cargo_source.tile 14:58:19 <Darkvater> in your diff 14:59:24 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 15:00:48 <Celestar> Darkvater: but it does mean messing with a lot of code 15:01:01 <Celestar> cargo_source is used here and there and somewhere else as well 15:01:28 <Darkvater> you sure? 15:01:42 <Darkvater> saveload code would be just 15:01:44 <Darkvater> instead of 15:01:46 <Darkvater> SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, cargo_source, SLE_UINT16, 7, SL_MAX_VERSION), 15:01:51 <Darkvater> SLE_CONDVAR(Vehicle, cargo_source.station, SLE_UINT16, 7, SL_MAX_VERSION), 15:02:10 <Celestar> fischer@galadriel:[/nfs/home/fischer/openttd/trunk]> grep cargo_source src/*.cpp | wc -l 15:02:13 <Celestar> 23 15:02:15 <Celestar> hm 15:02:20 <Celestar> could be worse 15:02:50 <Darkvater> we could ask what people think of course 15:03:06 <Darkvater> but this is imho nicer as these two really belong together and we need to show that 15:03:56 <Brianetta> 15:03 <sarah_pilot> Nilo has left the game (desync error) 15:04:00 <Celestar> well, but it is a more fundamental change 15:05:17 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:02 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 15:06:07 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:11:53 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:16:30 <peter1138> hehehe, this thread keeps on amusing :) 15:17:20 <Sacro> which thread? 15:17:47 <peter1138> ottd unlimited 15:18:21 * Brianetta posts to it. 15:18:30 <Brianetta> peter1138: Stop me I talk crap, please 15:18:35 <peter1138> you haven't yet 15:18:45 <peter1138> he seems to be thinking that nfo is actually executed 15:18:55 <Brianetta> Yeah 15:19:13 <Brianetta> He can't grasp that there's a grey area between the metal and a fully protected sandbox 15:19:33 <Brianetta> Perhaps if he'd read the spec 15:19:40 <Brianetta> or, um, done any research 15:19:53 <peter1138> and yes, performance is very important 15:20:16 <Brianetta> Thing is 15:20:22 <peter1138> for vehicles, all this stuff is evaluated every time a vehicle moves 15:20:32 <Brianetta> If KUDr used LUA for AI coding, might it also be used for other tasks? 15:20:38 <peter1138> possible 15:20:53 <Brianetta> I cna't see NFO being unseated, thogh 15:20:57 <peter1138> no 15:21:04 <KUDr_wrk> Brianetta: yes, but rather something like squirrel 15:21:12 <Celestar> Brianetta: nice work on da map 15:21:13 <KUDr_wrk> instead of LUA 15:21:18 <Brianetta> Celestar: Ta 15:21:23 <Darkvater> nobody is going to rewrite the whole thing and drop support for all existing grf's 15:21:33 <Brianetta> I make an empty TGP, then place all towns and key industries 15:21:40 <Brianetta> then random industries for fun 15:21:47 <Brianetta> and obviously the roads, etc 15:21:50 <Brianetta> and harbours 15:21:55 <Brianetta> I think towns need good harbours 15:22:02 <Celestar> Brianetta: are you always doing 1kx256? 15:22:14 <Brianetta> Celestar: Yes, for the last 2 yers 15:22:19 <Celestar> ok 15:22:32 <Brianetta> It has the same footprint in RAM as 512² 15:22:39 <Brianetta> but you can do really long straight routes 15:22:59 <Celestar> yeah 15:23:11 <Celestar> I was just wondering about 1kx512 or something :P 15:23:13 <Brianetta> I toyed with 2048x128 but it's shite, frankly 15:23:23 <Brianetta> Celestar: Server load stops me 15:23:31 <Celestar> Brianetta: pity :( 15:23:35 <Brianetta> I have the #openttdcoop servers on there, too 15:23:40 <Celestar> Brianetta: what hardware? 15:23:49 <Brianetta> and when Yahoo! indexes the server, http kills performance 15:23:51 <Darkvater> Celestar: http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/station_sort_store2.diff << committable 15:23:54 <Brianetta> P4 1800 15:23:56 <Celestar> Darkvater: good 15:24:00 <Brianetta> wit 512 15:24:00 <Celestar> Darkvater: doing so 15:24:21 <Brianetta> And there was this guy in Hungary 15:24:30 <Brianetta> he was mirroring the #openttdcoop wiki 15:24:30 <Darkvater> the transfer thing...donnu yet, but fix that if in any case and DeliverGoods parameter order 15:24:33 <Brianetta> without throttling 15:24:39 <Brianetta> I banned three IPs 15:24:50 <Brianetta> after he came on with a fourth, I blocked his ISP 15:24:50 <Celestar> Darkvater: if is already fixed. 15:25:09 <Brianetta> but when he was sucking my web sites 15:25:15 <Celestar> Brianetta: are you hosting the wiki? 15:25:15 <Brianetta> he was puching th eload average to 3 15:25:23 <Brianetta> yes 15:25:27 <Brianetta> all #openttdcoop stuff 15:25:36 <Celestar> ah ok 15:25:41 <Celestar> need a mirror or something? 15:25:43 <Brianetta> and a bunch of other sites 15:26:16 <Brianetta> Mirror could be difficult 15:26:30 <Brianetta> since Osai and others are working on talking to the openttd servers 15:26:38 <Brianetta> for some dynamic content 15:26:42 <Brianetta> something I'm pioneering 15:26:44 *** Chrill [~chrillech@c213-89-192-200.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 15:26:48 <hylje> difficult, not impossible 15:27:01 <hylje> distributed computing could do some cool stuff there 15:27:03 <Brianetta> Not much is impossible 15:27:08 <Darkvater> I think I'm in ineed of some food 15:27:15 <Chrill> I need to ask you guys a question.. I dunno why, but my RC3 fails to load my heightmaps 15:27:19 <Brianetta> I'm in need of a strong coffee 15:27:22 <Celestar> Darkvater: do we have a flyspray id for that station list storage? 15:28:09 <peter1138> 15:18 <@Darkvater> nobody is going to rewrite the whole thing and drop support for all existing grf's 15:28:16 <peter1138> tron might've done at some point ;) 15:29:38 <Chrill> Why can't OpenTTD load heightmaps? 15:30:43 <CIA-1> celestar * r8065 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Feature: The station list does now remember the sort settings 15:30:47 <Celestar> Chrill: unless you give us some error message, it is a bit unhelpful 15:31:12 <glx> or the file that fails to load 15:31:24 <Brianetta> Haukinger: "From an architects perspective, if performance is your main problem in this 100 KLOC mess of spaghetti code, you have a *real* problem here" 15:31:35 <Chrill> Celestar: Well, there IS no error message, the game just crashes 15:32:22 <Chrill> No matter what heightmap or general pic I try to load, it just shuts the game down, no error messages or anything 15:32:25 <Celestar> Chrill: ok I have no idea about Heightmaps, please post a bug report with the heightmap you are trying to load 15:32:29 <Celestar> Brianetta: ? 15:32:37 <Celestar> Brianetta: where's that from? 15:32:47 <Brianetta> OTTD Unlimited thread 15:32:47 <Chrill> Where/How do I post bugreports then? 15:32:55 <Celestar> Chrill: bugs.openttd.org 15:34:17 <Chrill> All I can say is what's said here already, so if no-one else fails with heightmaps, it's really strange, since it occured in both RC2 and RC3 15:38:04 <Chrill> There's a bug report (probably totally failed one) there now 15:38:59 <glx> Chrill: we need the heightmap to test 15:39:03 <Chrill> oh, ok 15:39:04 <Chrill> hang on 15:39:18 <Brianetta> Is there still a limit to custom names? 15:39:23 <Chrill> Need to write new bug report, or can I edit the old one? 15:39:37 <glx> you can post a reply in it 15:39:45 <Chrill> ok 15:39:53 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:24 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 15:40:26 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has left #openttd [] 15:40:31 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 15:40:49 <Chrill> there 15:41:25 <Celestar> will be investigated 15:42:00 <glx> I'm getting the file now :) 15:42:56 <glx> though 640*480 is not good for heightmap 15:43:09 <Chrill> Well, the thing is I picked a file that fails now but worked before 15:43:23 <glx> anyway I get an assert :) 15:43:31 <Chrill> assert?? 15:44:54 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:00 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Life is a game of pick-up-sticks, played by fucking lunatics.] 15:45:06 <Celestar> Brianetta: how will the next map look like? 15:47:59 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 15:48:02 * Celestar is listening to SFO tower live ATC 15:48:05 <MeusH> hey 15:48:25 <MeusH> !seen Wolf01 15:48:25 <_42_> MeusH, Wolf01 (~wolf01@82.56.161.138) was last seen quitting #openttd 16 hours 55 minutes ago (10.01. 22:53) stating "" after spending 4 hours 33 minutes there. 15:49:16 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:53:02 <Sacro> MeusH: Wolf01 is italian... 15:57:33 <MeusH> yep that's why I look for him :) 15:57:38 <MeusH> I'm looking* 15:59:09 <Brianetta> Celestar: Not sure yet 15:59:31 <Celestar> Brianetta: I'll make a map of Bavaria at some point 16:01:56 <Brianetta> cool 16:02:14 <Celestar> as soon as I can import a sensible heightmap 16:03:16 *** Chrill [~chrillech@c213-89-192-200.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: An Eye for an eye makes the whole world blind] 16:07:11 <stillunknown> Celestar: you live in Bavaria? 16:07:28 <Celestar> stillunknown: most of the time :) 16:09:51 <stillunknown> took me a few seconds to realize what it was, the german name is more familiar 16:10:49 <stillunknown> Celestar: does openttd use unums use purely for the purpose of having names attached to numbers? 16:10:59 <Celestar> stillunknown: mostly yes? 16:11:51 <stillunknown> considered using a class containing static consts? 16:12:51 <Celestar> not yet. 16:12:57 <Celestar> stillunknown: discuss with KUDr_wrk rather :) 16:13:39 <stillunknown> as i see it now there are several layers to make enums be something other than int 16:13:49 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:13:52 <stillunknown> i will talk to him when i see him 16:14:03 <Celestar> stillunknown: ok 16:15:03 <Digitalfox_Away> Celestar: I have read the pdf you made for balancing, but it's going to change a lot the way openttd economy works.. Is this soon or in long distance future? 16:15:30 <Celestar> Digitalfox_Away: I will start soon 16:15:36 <stillunknown> what pdf 16:15:49 <Digitalfox_Away> stillunknown: http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/the-future.pdf 16:15:58 <Digitalfox_Away> stillunknown: made by celestar 16:16:06 *** Digitalfox_Away is now known as Digitalfox 16:17:43 <Sacro> :o its a Celestar 16:17:50 <Sacro> Celestar: didnt you have a pdf for newsignals? 16:17:58 <Celestar> Sacro: somewhere, yes. 16:18:08 <Celestar> I can't access my own server 16:18:12 <Celestar> does it work for all of you? 16:18:32 <peter1138> who's going to get r8086? 16:18:47 <Sacro> Celestar: yeah, i can get on fvfischer.de 16:19:02 *** Smoovious [~smoovious@c-71-205-140-67.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:19:10 <Celestar> everyone can 16:19:14 <Celestar> only I can't 16:19:18 <Celestar> not even with ssh 16:19:20 <Celestar> wtf is wrong 16:19:24 <Sacro> how strange 16:19:35 <Celestar> ok ssh is back 16:19:39 <Celestar> phes 16:19:44 <Smoovious> maybe you pissed it off... have you tried apologizing to it? 16:20:24 <Celestar> good idea 16:20:28 <Celestar> it HAS a female name after all 16:20:40 * Smoovious spent the past few hours listening to someone whine about how his girl isn't talking to him... >sighs< 16:20:44 <Sacro> ah ha, found it 16:20:55 <Sacro> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/ottd_signal.pdf 16:21:18 <Celestar> vici@arwen:[/home/vici]> uptime 4:44pm up 159 days 23:28, 1 user, load average: 0,00, 0,00, 0,00 16:21:24 <Celestar> my server is not REALLY full :P 16:21:31 <peter1138> Digitalfox: when editting the wiki can you put a short summary in please? 16:21:59 <Sacro> Celestar: im considering sitting down and hacking around in the signal code sometime soon 16:22:00 <stillunknown> Celestar: good luck with balance, are you going to do something about the speeds as well? 16:22:16 <Celestar> stillunknown: no. peter1138 is 16:22:16 <Digitalfox> peter1138: but i did in discussion :| 16:22:34 <Celestar> stillunknown: vehicles will have same speeds :) 16:22:46 <peter1138> which vehicles don't? 16:22:49 <peter1138> aircraft obviously 16:23:08 <Celestar> road vehicles 16:23:11 <peter1138> ? 16:23:16 <Celestar> they're accelerated 16:23:17 <peter1138> hmm 16:23:18 <Celestar> iirc 16:24:16 <stillunknown> it's really strange seeing a maglev train overtake a concorde 16:24:18 <Celestar> I shall make a branch for new_economy, right? 16:24:28 <peter1138> no 16:24:41 <peter1138> road vehicles and trains are the same 16:24:50 <stillunknown> no 16:24:55 <Celestar> peter1138: ok then they just get better ratings ... 16:25:05 <peter1138> yes 16:25:06 <stillunknown> road vehicles are given 2x the speed atm 16:25:11 <peter1138> stillunknown: no they're not 16:25:21 <Celestar> stillunknown: just considering ratings, not their real speed 16:25:24 <peter1138> rv going at 112km/h is the same speed as a train going at 112km/h 16:25:33 <peter1138> rvs internal speed is 2* though 16:25:34 <Celestar> peter1138: tested? :) 16:25:38 <peter1138> which affects the rating 16:25:40 <peter1138> yes, testing now 16:25:59 <stillunknown> peter1138: who had that strange idea 16:26:07 <peter1138> stillunknown: chris saywer 16:26:08 <Celestar> stillunknown: Chris Sawyer 16:26:09 <peter1138> sawyer 16:26:19 <Sacro> chris sawyer 16:26:39 <peter1138> max rv speed is 127 for a reasoN :) 16:26:47 <Sacro> peter1138: it runs out of bits 16:26:53 <Sacro> short unsigned int 16:26:55 <Celestar> peter1138: you're kidding, right? : 16:27:02 <Celestar> short is 16 bits 16:27:09 <peter1138> unsigned char, sacro 16:27:14 <peter1138> Celestar: no 16:27:16 <Sacro> :o char 16:27:18 <Sacro> how silly 16:27:26 <Celestar> peter1138: he really tried to save EVERY bit, right? 16:27:48 <peter1138> for trains, the tick handler is run twice 16:28:05 <peter1138> so 112 km/h is the same speed as 112 km/h for rvs 16:28:16 <peter1138> similar for planes, but it's run *6* times 16:28:58 * peter1138 ponders doubling train units and running it once (i think that's the right way) 16:29:01 <Smoovious> at the time, memory constrains were a lot harder... I remember playing TTD original on a 286 16:29:02 <stillunknown> are there known bottlenecks in ottd code listed somewhere? 16:29:10 <peter1138> stillunknown: yeah, in gprof :) 16:29:17 <Celestar> stillunknown: yes 16:29:27 <peter1138> istm tron had some mmx patch for the blitter... 16:29:31 <Celestar> stillunknown: 1) Ship pathfinding, 2) Vehicle collider 16:29:39 <peter1138> obviously not very cross platform... 16:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think TTO ran with about 2.5 MB RAM 16:29:46 <Smoovious> I can vouch for the ship pathfinding 16:30:05 <Smoovious> I had 1Mb of ram at the time 16:30:23 * peter1138 notes that the ttdp solution of running the aircraft handler 4 times results in it actually running the handler 24 times per vehicle tick 16:30:25 <Smoovious> actually, now that I think about it, I was using the 486 16:30:30 <Smoovious> (the same one I'm typing on) 16:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> i think it also had some low-memory-mode 16:31:09 <Smoovious> 486 had 4Mb at the time... (has 14Mb now) 16:31:12 <stillunknown> Smoovious: you are joking? 16:31:27 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: that was a 256x256 map with a max of 240 stations 16:31:31 <Smoovious> nope... 16:31:38 * Smoovious grins. 16:31:40 <peter1138> Smoovious: how well does ottd run on that? :) 16:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think i ever hit the station limit 16:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i only ever hit the vehicle limits 16:32:01 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: no, the maps were to small 16:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> 80 trains is really not a lot 16:32:30 <Smoovious> I use this 486 just for chatting, running my email service, a couple other processor-non-intensive things 16:33:12 <Smoovious> I haven't tried, peter1138... I only tested µTorrent on it... I use OTTD on my main computer..a P3/733 16:33:19 <Sacro> Smoovious: what os? 16:34:02 <Smoovious> 486=Win95+(with some 98 libraries and other mods)... P3/733=Win2k-48pro 16:37:02 <stillunknown> Celestar: is the train collider called too often, because it doesn't seem to be that large? 16:37:28 <Celestar> stillunknown: it is called often 16:38:31 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has joined #openttd 16:39:13 <peter1138> every motion step i'd guess 16:39:24 <peter1138> which can be never, or can be several times a tick 16:39:29 <Celestar> peter1138: that is right 16:39:30 <peter1138> per train 16:39:37 <stillunknown> considered wasting a bit in the map? 16:39:37 <Celestar> more often it is several times a tick 16:39:46 <peter1138> depends how fast the train is, heh 16:39:49 <Celestar> stillunknown: how do one bit help? 16:39:57 <stillunknown> like a label that sais occupied 16:40:18 <stillunknown> must be a whole lot cheaper than this 16:40:40 <stillunknown> OnVehicleEnterNewTile (or something like that) could change that 16:41:02 <stillunknown> i think 16:41:02 <Brianetta> stillunknown: You can have four trains in one tile, easily 16:41:20 <stillunknown> but it would narrow checking for collisions down 16:41:44 <Brianetta> You'd just be doing an occupation check several times per tick 16:41:52 <Celestar> stillunknown: a larger hash would help 16:42:46 <stillunknown> away, will talk later again 16:42:52 <Celestar> yes 16:43:26 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:50 <peter1138> who wants 32 bit VehicleIDs? heh 16:44:57 <peter1138> 65534 vehicles isn't enough! 16:45:06 <peter1138> 65535 maybe 16:45:08 *** Netsplit osmosis.oftc.net <-> electron.oftc.net quits: Triffid_Hunter 16:45:18 <peter1138> hmm, -1024 isn't it? 16:45:43 *** Digitalfox_ [~chatzilla@bl7-177-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 16:46:50 <Celestar> er 16:46:54 <Celestar> later perhaps 16:47:00 <peter1138> i was joking 16:47:04 <Celestar> :P 16:47:25 <Celestar> well if you have 32 wagon long trains 16:47:28 <Celestar> that's 2000 trains 16:47:31 <Celestar> not that much :P 16:47:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, but then i want every light on the wagon be a own vehicle ;) 16:47:46 <hylje> around at ottdcoop we did some 50 wagon trains 16:47:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the wheels 16:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> and passengers walking around 16:48:47 <peter1138> separate bogies? heh 16:49:03 <peter1138> possible with newgrf, but nobody's done it, fortunately 16:49:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> and birds 16:49:14 <peter1138> (cos the bogies detach around bends) 16:49:29 <Celestar> peter1138: what's the point anyway if each bogie is like 2 pixels in size? 16:49:33 <peter1138> :) 16:49:48 <Celestar> we first need another zoom level 16:50:10 <hylje> or just 3d vehicles 16:50:21 <Celestar> hylje: well, someone will need to MAKE them 16:50:45 <Darkvater> back 16:51:00 <Darkvater> he that 'unlimited' thread is really funny 16:51:08 <Celestar> Darkvater: what's it about anyway? 16:51:09 <hylje> link to said thread 16:51:33 <Darkvater> I just fail to see the link between 'spaghetti code' and 'performance issues' 16:51:41 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-187-145.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:51:42 <Darkvater> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29399&start=80&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= 16:51:52 *** Digitalfox_ is now known as Digitalfox 16:51:58 <Celestar> Darkvater: well, hopefully it becomes less spaghetti in the future 16:52:18 <Darkvater> Celestar: nothing, some people without any knowledge of TTD/OTTD, the internal workings and what NFO actually is think they can do much better 16:52:26 <Darkvater> with a general purpose scripting engine like LUA 16:52:33 <Celestar> uh 16:52:37 <Celestar> does patchman know? 16:52:40 <Celestar> :P 16:52:43 <Smoovious> <peter1138> who wants 32 bit VehicleIDs? heh <--- I do! :D (I'm a big road-vehicle player :D ) 16:52:44 <Darkvater> he replied twice :) 16:52:52 <Celestar> Darkvater: aaand? 16:52:59 <Darkvater> a vehement defender :) 16:53:01 <Darkvater> just read it 16:53:04 <Darkvater> it's pretty good 16:53:23 <peter1138> Smoovious: an rv is one vehicle, heh 16:53:32 <peter1138> and a helicopter is 3. woo 16:53:40 <Darkvater> I think the census last time was to make VehicleID 32bits when someone can show a working and purposeful game with 65K vehicles running 16:53:47 <Darkvater> until then... *wave* 16:53:59 <Celestar> Darkvater: ok I will when I do the economy/balancing 16:54:12 <Celestar> Darkvater: which I will start next week in a seperate branch 16:54:41 <Darkvater> peter1138: < peter1138> tron might've done at some point ;) 16:54:45 <Darkvater> you think? 16:55:27 <Darkvater> the heightmap problem might be caused by the C++ merge; some alloc gone wrong (just like with bridge) 16:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> he said it was in RC3 16:56:19 *** caladan [~caladan@161-be2-6.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd 16:56:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> that has nothing to do with C++ 16:56:50 *** Blue [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:59:22 <Smoovious> hey, was wondering, if someone is planning to do a realistic stop for a red signal, can it also be made to pass a red signal if it doesn't stop in time? (with appropriate delay before starting again while the emergency brakes bleed out back to normal?) 16:59:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:00:05 <ln-> no 17:01:55 <Sacro> Smoovious: im thinking about this 17:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: first you have to introduce realistic red signals 17:02:08 <Sacro> join #newsignals 17:02:15 <Sacro> we might do something soon... i can feel it 17:02:20 <Celestar> Smoovious yes. 17:02:26 <Celestar> Smoovious: newsignalling will do that 17:02:33 * Smoovious nods. 17:02:45 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: has a lot of work :P 17:02:57 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC76FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:21 <Sacro> i want to get all signals to default to red first, might attempt that later 17:03:30 <Sacro> are we coding in C or C++? 17:03:32 <Celestar> Sacro: that is planned as well 17:03:34 <Smoovious> I have a chart for a 3-searchlight signalling scheme... which came from RailSim v1.21-us... a low-graphics train simulator I like to play from time to time 17:03:55 <Celestar> ok guys, I'm off 17:03:57 <Sacro> Celestar: i know, i was considering attempting it 17:04:02 <Sacro> Celestar: see you later 17:04:03 <peter1138> Sacro: C that compiles as c++ :P 17:04:09 <Sacro> peter1138: hmm.. 17:04:21 <Celestar> nah, will be C++ 17:04:30 <peter1138> bah 17:04:30 <Celestar> like integrated into Yapf 17:04:39 <peter1138> i'm trying to "optimise" the train controller 17:04:51 <peter1138> so that it only updates the train's image at the end of the cycle 17:04:59 <peter1138> should reduce newgrf overhead for fast trains 17:05:27 <peter1138> but sometimes it's not quite right :o 17:06:01 <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: wouldn't it be better to "optimize" it? so it can work well in US too? 17:06:20 *** Triffid_Hunter [~Splat@59.167.214.242] has joined #openttd 17:06:43 <Darkvater> :O 17:06:55 <hylje> lets omg-optimize it 17:07:36 <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: who cares about them? :) 17:08:01 <Sacro> hylje: noo, zomg-optimisation! 17:08:05 <KUDr_wrk> i.e. me (i have my bosses there) 17:08:33 <hylje> hm, cbh fails to compile. it tries to do stuff with .c files 17:08:43 *** Blue [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has left #openttd [] 17:08:45 <Darkvater> US should pay up if they want optimization 17:10:00 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/screenshot.png 17:10:02 <Brianetta> good 17:10:05 <Sacro> hmm, what is bmp.cpp? 17:10:20 <Brianetta> Sacro: Screenshot routine 17:10:36 <Sacro> what good timing, you just used it :) 17:11:07 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:11:27 <Brianetta> I used png 17:11:46 <Brianetta> See how I cleverly add text to my image? 17:11:53 <Brianetta> See how I lined it up with the status bar? 17:12:01 <Brianetta> It looks utterly pap when *PAUSED* is on 17:12:06 <Sacro> indeed it is impressive 17:12:21 <Brianetta> Should I include the tile location? 17:12:29 <Brianetta> So people can scrollto themselves to the screenshot? 17:12:45 <Sacro> interesting question... where in svn are the .vcproj files? 17:12:50 <Sacro> or the .sln 17:13:05 <Sacro> ooh, ./projects 17:13:30 <Brianetta> I just noticed that chat in concole is still full-colour 17:13:35 <Brianetta> like the regular chat used to be 17:19:53 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 17:22:04 <stillunknown> Celestar: is trackdirbits the candidate for the "hash"? 17:25:54 <Sacro> yeek a goto 17:27:24 <stillunknown> who is "US"? 17:28:16 <Sacro> ? 17:28:22 <Sacro> United States? 17:28:22 <stillunknown> and does it have to do with optimisations 17:28:50 <stillunknown> <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: wouldn't it be better to "optimize" it? so it can work well in US too? 17:28:55 <stillunknown> <Darkvater> US should pay up if they want optimization 17:28:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E4E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it hsd to do with zpelling 17:29:53 <CIA-1> KUDr * r8066 /trunk/src/ (49 files in 7 dirs): - Codechange: MallocT(), CallocT(), ReallocT() now return the pointer to allocated memory instead of modifying the pointer given as parameter 17:30:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's more of an in-joke really 17:30:10 * Sacro changes a goto make_red to a goto make_green 17:30:13 <Sacro> this could be funny 17:30:54 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:30:57 *** Purno [~Purno@5351CF18.cable.casema.nl] has quit [] 17:31:26 * Sacro kills presignals :D 17:32:11 <hylje> :o 17:32:27 <Sacro> hylje: its just an experiment 17:33:10 <Sacro> interesting question, where will vs2005 put the exe... 17:33:30 <hylje> it doesnt let you have the exe unless you pay 17:33:33 <Sacro> 'strgen.exe': Loaded 'C:\Development\OpenTTD\trunk\objs\strgen\strgen.exe', Symbols loaded. 17:33:33 <Sacro> 'strgen.exe': Loaded 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\ntdll.dll', No symbols loaded. 17:33:33 <Sacro> 'strgen.exe': Loaded 'C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll', No symbols loaded. 17:33:33 <Sacro> The program '[6568] strgen.exe: Native' has exited with code 1 (0x1). 17:33:48 <Sacro> hylje: im a student, it was free from msdnaa 17:34:22 <hylje> who cares? :-) 17:35:07 <Sacro> ahh, there we go 17:35:13 <stillunknown> anyone got ideas about the smallest/efficient way to store occupancy on a train tile 17:35:14 <Sacro> i had to build strgen first 17:35:19 <Sacro> and then rebuild openttd 17:37:39 <Smoovious> well, you got 6 ways a track tile can be occupied... so probably best to do a bit-image 17:38:49 <stillunknown> trackdirbits i suppose 17:38:54 <Smoovious> if you need to keep track of that on each tile 17:38:55 <caladan> does it still happen the trains "circles" on one tile? 17:39:26 <Smoovious> think they can only circle on 4 tiles, smallest... can't circle on a single tile 17:39:53 <stillunknown> i'm looking for ways to reduce the calls to the train collision checker 17:40:08 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-162-38.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:40:17 <Sacro> BobingAbout!!! 17:40:18 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-162-38.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [] 17:40:44 * Sacro wiggles with joy as he has inverted a presignal 17:40:58 <Sacro> its now green so long as 2 trains are in the block 17:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: i'm afraid trains occupying the same trackbit is not a proper criterium for collisions 17:41:31 <hylje> Eddi|zuHause2: example situation? 17:41:38 <stillunknown> Eddi|zuHause2: but it is a criteria to check 17:41:39 <Smoovious> yeah, but it would be enough to cause the collision check to occur 17:41:39 <caladan> like two in diagonal 17:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> ther can be a) two trains on the track and not crash (e.g. on each end of a tile) and b) two trains not on the same track, but crash (e.g. crossing) 17:43:03 <Smoovious> think what he's trying to do, is to make an initial quick-check to see if there are any trains close enough to even worry about a collision possibility in the first place, instead of checking for collisions constantly 17:43:19 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host27-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:43:28 <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... but in your latter example, they would both still be occupying the same tile 17:43:32 <Wolf01> ello 17:43:51 <Smoovious> so in both cases, it would be enough to make the collision check 17:43:58 <Sacro> Wolf01: MeusH is after an Italian 17:44:10 <MeusH> hello Wolf01 17:44:13 <MeusH> thank you Sacro :) 17:44:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it is also possible that trains crash without being on the same tile 17:44:48 <Smoovious> nope 17:45:12 <Wolf01> mmm i can't understand well what means "is after an Italian" 17:45:19 <Smoovious> they have to be occupying at least a single bit of space at the same time in order to crash... if they aren't, then they miss each other 17:45:22 <MeusH> =looks for an Italian 17:45:31 <Wolf01> oooh ok 17:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> e.g. when an engine is at the edge of tile X, its 'nose' is already outside of X 17:45:34 <MeusH> I'm not going to hurt you 17:45:38 <MeusH> but I'm coming to you :) 17:45:42 <Wolf01> :) 17:45:50 <MeusH> and I'd like to ask about prices 17:45:54 <Smoovious> if its nose is outside of X, then its nose is occupying X+1 17:46:09 <Sacro> this sounds like it could be amusing 17:46:18 <MeusH> like, how much does x cost: 17:46:22 *** Zahl22 [~SENFGURKE@p549F0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:46:22 <Wolf01> prices? are high :) 17:46:23 <MeusH> Bottle of water 17:46:25 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Zahl22))] 17:46:25 *** Zahl22 is now known as Zahl 17:46:31 <MeusH> 2l of Cola 17:46:34 <MeusH> 0,3 can of Cola 17:46:42 <MeusH> a Snack like Snickers 17:46:50 <Wolf01> 2l of cola is about 1.50EUR 17:47:02 <Wolf01> snacks from 0.50EUR to 2EUR 17:47:33 <Wolf01> water... we throw it on your back to force you to buy it 17:47:37 <MeusH> that's very much 17:47:41 <Wolf01> about 0.30 at liter 17:47:45 <MeusH> aha, then I'm fine with water :) 17:48:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> who took my mouse? 17:48:17 <Smoovious> the X/Y of a train car is just the individual car's axis... its dimensions is also handled... that's how you can have cars of different length 17:48:26 <MeusH> Wolf01, where do you live? 17:48:34 <Smoovious> is=are 17:48:36 <MeusH> I mean, what part of country? 17:48:41 <Wolf01> north east 17:48:48 <MeusH> Lombardia? 17:48:53 <Wolf01> veneto 17:49:03 <MeusH> nice :) 17:49:04 <Wolf01> between trieste and venice 17:49:08 <hylje> here the water is like 1 euro per cubic meter 17:49:19 <MeusH> I'm going to Bormio 17:49:33 <MeusH> hylje: where do you live? 17:49:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: yes, but you cannot store the position of each bit of the vehicle 17:49:38 <hylje> finland 17:50:10 <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... you don't have to... the individual car's dimensions are a constant... 17:50:59 <Smoovious> you only need to know which car it is, and what its orientation is... and they already deal with that at signals and stations... note how they don't stop at the engine's mid-point but where the front of it is 17:51:00 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but the problem is, this must be calculated on each check 17:51:27 <MeusH> hylje: and that is a good price 17:51:32 <MeusH> I always like Finland :) 17:51:33 <Smoovious> it already knows how far it has to figure in its calculations before it fouls another tile 17:51:57 <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... it already is calculated on each check... again... for signalling 17:52:07 <Sacro> http://thegrebs.com/irc/oftc/2006/2006.04.01/ ah what an april fools day trick that was 17:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> and the objective is to reduce the number of calculations 17:52:23 <hylje> MeusH: the price of water is nice considering restaurants usually have water (tap) for .5-1e per liter 17:52:36 <hylje> nice profit!! 17:53:02 <Smoovious> right again... and if no trains are occupying the same tile, you don't need to make the higher-detail collision check 17:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, you do 17:53:19 <Smoovious> you only need to make the collision check, if 2 trains are found occupying the same tile 17:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> you have to do it for neighbouring tiles also 17:53:48 <Smoovious> no you don't... cuz neighboring tiles, aren't colliding 17:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> as you don't know (by looking at the vehicles coordinates) if it is overlapping to the next tile 17:54:12 <Smoovious> a collision, by definition, happens, when 2 vehicles try to occupy the same space at the same time... and if they aren't, they didn't collide 17:54:27 <stillunknown> i get eddi's point 17:54:51 <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... you do when you take the vehicles dimensions into account... 17:54:56 * Smoovious sighs. 17:54:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> FOLLOW ME: you do not know the area the vehicle occupies, you have to calculate that first 17:55:21 <Smoovious> of course you know the area it occupies... the vehicle's dimensions are a constant... 17:55:52 <Smoovious> if the very first pixel, of an engine, is on the next tile, the next tile is occupied, and marked as such 17:56:53 <Smoovious> so long as each tile, shows a 0 or 1, with no exceptions, then you have no collisions anywhere... if any tile, shows a 2, then there is a possibility of a collision on that tile, and you can make your higher-detail collision check on that tile and the trains involved on that tile 17:57:28 <caladan> thats true 17:57:46 <Smoovious> a signal block goes red, when the first bit enters the block, and the last bit of the train, leaves the block... so the dimensions are already taken into account for track/block occupancy... 17:58:04 <Smoovious> if it didn't, then they would only go red and green when the middle of the car passed the tile boundary 17:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you do not have that kind of space... you need at least 2 bits for each tile that may ever be occupied by a vehicle 17:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> plus that means you may never have more than 2^(number of reserved bits) - 1 vehicles on the same tile 17:59:14 <Smoovious> you don't even have to do it on a per-tile basis... you can do it on a per-signal-block basis 17:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause2> or you need to bookkeep the tile numbers that are occupied by each vehicle 17:59:38 <Smoovious> which frankly, is exactly what signal blocks are for in the first place 17:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> which may be more than 2 18:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> but the game has no notion of a signal block 18:00:32 <Smoovious> individual train cars are only individual cars in the depot... when the trains are running, the entire train, regardless of how many pieces are in the train, are treated as a single unit 18:00:37 <hylje> aa 18:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a purely "virtual" view 18:00:45 <Smoovious> a train with 200 cars in it, still counts as 1 train 18:01:05 <Digitalfox> peter1138: look at roadmap 0.6, is it better now? With revision number? http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Roadmap_0.6#0.6.0_Roadmap 18:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, Smoovious, each wagon is treated as an individual vehicle (currently) 18:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> if a train moves, it iterates over each wagon, and moves that wagon 18:01:37 <Smoovious> graphically, yes 18:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, game-logically 18:01:52 <Smoovious> but each train is a constant X length 18:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, a train can bend 18:02:11 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-162-38.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:02:14 <peter1138> Digitalfox: i meant in the wiki change log 18:02:18 *** BobingAbout [~BobingAbo@adsl-83-100-162-38.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [] 18:02:31 <peter1138> if you leave it it just says "0.6.0 Roadmap" every change 18:02:32 <Smoovious> so train X, enters a block... train X is Y long... no matter if it is bending or not, it is still Y long, and takes up Y pixeks of track... 18:03:05 <Smoovious> pixeks=pixels 18:03:07 <Digitalfox> peter1138: how do i add the change log of what i made? 18:03:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, the number of pieces is variable 18:03:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> because not all trackbits have the same length 18:03:27 <peter1138> Digitalfox: well you can only do it when you make the change 18:03:33 <caladan> like diagona are shorter and straight are longer 18:03:38 * Smoovious sighs. 18:03:47 <peter1138> Digitalfox: when you edit something, there's a Summary text box just above the buttons 18:03:59 <Digitalfox> peter1138: ah ok :) 18:04:01 <caladan> but i guess that this idea with 18:04:05 <Smoovious> a diagonal is going to have a constant length, and the train travels along it at the same constant length... 18:04:10 <caladan> "counter" of vehicles is ok 18:04:56 <Smoovious> if a section of track with 10 straight segments, and 2 diagonal segments, is X, and the train's entire length is also X, they're the same length... 18:05:23 <Smoovious> the only time they wouldn't be the same, is if you're measuring track-length and train-length with a different standard of measurement... 18:05:41 <Smoovious> like a mile for tracks is 122 units, and a mile for trains, is 124 units 18:07:08 <Smoovious> a train, just needs to be represented by its length... not by its consist elements... 18:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> this is total rubbish 18:07:31 <Smoovious> cuz when you get down to it, all that matters are the pixels it travels along 18:08:08 <Smoovious> it is NOT rubbish 18:08:18 *** Dominic [dominic@bluebottle.epicwebservices.net] has joined #openttd 18:08:41 <Smoovious> if a train is X length, it is going to be X length no matter which way it is facing or travelling... 18:09:03 <Smoovious> train cars aren't connected to each other with bungee cords 18:10:23 <Sacro> shame that 18:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> that may be true (which it isn't, because a train may circle, and thus become shorter, or it may be in wormholes like tunnels and bridges), but just knowing the length will not help you reducing the collision checks 18:10:51 <caladan> how is it made now? 18:10:56 <Smoovious> a train, circling, doesn't become shorter, simply because it is circling... it still has the same pixel length... if it doesn't, then that is a bug 18:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but it occupies less tiles 18:11:24 *** Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-177-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye...] 18:11:25 <Smoovious> less tiles is a different matter entirely 18:11:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> but tiles is exactly what this is about 18:12:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> we wanted to check if two vehicles might occupy the same tile 18:13:00 <Smoovious> a section of straight track, is going to be a constant X pixels... a section of diagonal track is going to be a constant Y pixels... those are 2 known constants... a train is Z pixels in length... another constant... so if the train is 122 pixels long... then you know where in front of the train to set a tile as occupied, and where behind the train to set the tile as unoccupied 18:13:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> and there is another flaw in your logic 18:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause2> you cannot just mark a tile as unoccupied if you leave it 18:14:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> because it might be occupied by another train 18:14:20 <Smoovious> no, you just reset your bit 18:14:39 <Smoovious> you don't work with scale model signalling and block occupation, do you? 18:15:06 <Smoovious> front of a train enters a block, you increment the counter for the block... end of the train leaves a block, you decrement the counter for the block 18:15:28 *** MeusH is now known as MeusH|gone 18:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> which would mean you have to check each tile you previously marked as occupied again, and that is not going to reduce the number of calculations for collision checking 18:15:34 <Smoovious> in fact, prototype railroads do their detection in the very same way 18:15:40 <Smoovious> no you wouldn't 18:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause2> but you cannot have a vehicle counter for each tile 18:16:05 *** setrodox [~setrodox@83-65-234-231.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> there is not enough space 18:16:17 <Smoovious> you don't need them for each tile... just for each signal block 18:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> again, there currently exists nothing like a signal block 18:16:54 <Smoovious> how do you know if a signal block is occupied, right now, to give a red or green signal? 18:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> the pathfinder is run 18:17:33 <Smoovious> the pathfinder is for trains... I'm talking track... 18:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> basically, you do a BFS down each connected trackbit, until you hit a signal 18:17:48 <hylje> trackfinder? 18:17:56 <Smoovious> a signal shows a red aspect for the track in front of it... how does the signal know, that it should show a red aspect? 18:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> if you do not listen to me, i cannot help you 18:18:34 <Smoovious> help me? I'm helping you, dude 18:19:22 * Sacro whistles and watches the fun 18:19:30 * Smoovious grins at Sacro 18:19:40 <Sacro> the signalling system does use a pathfinder 18:20:22 <Sacro> i have just been studying rail_cmd.c 18:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> i explain it one more time, if a train hits a signal, it runs a signal updater, which runs the pathfinder, until all connected signals are set to their appropriate state 18:20:33 <Sacro> indeed... 18:20:34 <Smoovious> ok, Sacro 18:21:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> same thing is also run if you build or remove a track 18:21:35 * Smoovious nods. 18:22:07 <Smoovious> and couldn't the same method, establish where each block of track is, that is surrounded by signals? 18:22:40 <Smoovious> the current path finder now, finds its paths, based on each individual track tile, no? 18:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> it could, but the calculation is heavy, and you have nowhere to store that information 18:23:40 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e182091072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:24:22 * Smoovious waits. 18:25:24 <caladan> I guess that creating structure like "signal block" could speed up things a little... 18:25:33 <Smoovious> yep 18:25:36 <caladan> And map is to be rewritten too... 18:25:39 <Smoovious> and you only need to do that, during building 18:25:44 <caladan> That's right 18:25:47 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has joined #openttd 18:25:54 <caladan> but then you have to have like index to block in signal block... 18:26:04 <caladan> i mean in signal tile 18:26:20 <Smoovious> then, finding routes, is a matter of indexing the signal blocks, and looking through the index, to find the shortest route that way, with the signal block index, showing the entry/exit points where there will be signals, a station, or a depot 18:26:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> again a flaw... you'd have to store the index to the signal block in each tile 18:26:47 <caladan> hmmm, that wont be that easy 18:26:54 <Smoovious> and for collision checking... scan the index, to see... if you have 0 trains occupying it... 1 train... 2? 18:26:58 <CIA-1> rubidium * r8067 /trunk/Makefile.src.in: -Fix (r7759): if bin/$(TTD) was removed, it did not get placed back on make unless $(TTD) got relinked. 18:28:09 <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... no... only in the signal tiles... 18:28:34 <caladan> but there's no difference, all tiles are the same 18:28:36 <Smoovious> each signal would be part of 2 signal blocks... if a train is entering fron one side, it is leaving the other side... 18:28:54 <caladan> so there's really need of two indeces in one tile 18:28:59 <caladan> that's far too much 18:29:15 <caladan> 2bits per block would be better, to signal number of vehicles currently on 18:29:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: no, because you need to find the block from the vehicle, not from the signal 18:29:56 <Smoovious> Eddi|zuHause2... that's not how trains operate... trains only start and stop... finding where they need to go, is handled from somewhere else 18:30:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> Smoovious: but we are talking about the game, not some pseudo-realistic model of reality 18:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's two completely different things 18:31:24 *** FlashMCD [~flashff@80-193-4-162.cable.ubr05.gill.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:31:33 <FlashMCD> danm you all and your ' s 18:31:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> the game's data is (to 90%) stored in the map, and everything else has to operate on that 18:31:41 <FlashMCD> *damn 18:31:52 <Smoovious> caladan... probably take a lot of work, sure... but in the end, would it be worth it? that's the big question... and I don't know that... but implementing a signal-block type of index, would probably make the constant path checks, take up less load during the game long-term... at the expense of a short-term calculation during the building process 18:32:20 <caladan> i would do it other way, compiling hmm, ideas 18:32:49 <caladan> i would add 2bit counter that would indicate number of vehicles on a tile 18:33:01 <caladan> and as we have train as set of cars 18:33:15 <caladan> the last would decrease that counter by one and first one (engine) would increase that 18:33:22 <Eddi|zuHause2> paths have absolutely nothing to do with signals 18:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> paths are decided at switches, not at signals 18:33:55 <Smoovious> caladan... but then you could end up having more than 3 vehicles at some point too... maybe... with signal blocks, you don't have to do 2 bits per tile, and probably do them indexed in the signal block 18:34:04 <Smoovious> paths don't have to be decided at switches 18:34:16 <Smoovious> they can be decided by entrance/exit of the block 18:34:49 <caladan> hmm, i mean one train as whole, not a car 18:34:50 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e182091072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 18:35:11 <caladan> it's iterated anyway, so the 1st would do ++ and last one -- 18:35:19 <Smoovious> caladan... yeah... for some reason I was also counting road vehicles 18:35:55 <Smoovious> caladan... no, you'd still need at least 3 bits... cuz it is possible to have 4 trains occupying the same tile 18:36:06 <Smoovious> 2 on each half, of each paralell diagonal 18:36:11 <Smoovious> parallel 18:36:15 *** Digitalfox [~digitalfo@bl8-41-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 18:36:22 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 18:36:22 <Digitalfox> !logs 18:36:26 <CIA-1> miham * r8068 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (croatian.txt greek.txt japanese.txt): 18:36:26 <CIA-1> WebTranslator2 update to 2007-01-11 19:35:48 18:36:26 <CIA-1> croatian - 93 fixed by knovak (93) 18:36:26 <CIA-1> greek - 10 fixed by Kesnar (10) 18:36:26 <CIA-1> japanese - 506 fixed by ickoonite (506) 18:36:49 <caladan> 2 or 3, doesnt matter 18:36:52 <caladan> but all tiles are the same 18:37:03 * Smoovious nods. 18:37:03 <caladan> putting in each tile 2 indeces to signalblocks is too much 18:37:15 <caladan> it would waste a *lot* of memory 18:37:43 <Smoovious> that's partly why I think using signal blocks would be better 18:37:57 <caladan> you dont get it i see 18:37:59 <Smoovious> then a whole set of tiles could be represented by a single index 18:38:00 <caladan> signalblock ok 18:38:05 <caladan> but how you find the proper one? 18:38:12 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e182091072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:38:15 <Smoovious> but then... those guys that like to put a signal on every single tile, would just kill it... 18:39:17 <caladan> right, and there are more and more of em ;] 18:39:43 <caladan> i like the counter idea the best 18:42:52 <Smoovious> I have an idea of how to represent track in my head right now, and I'll just confuse Eddi|zuHause2 again if I try to describe it... I'll try and get it down 'on paper' sometime tonight, with an example of how the index could represent the track 18:43:19 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not confused that easily, try me ;) 18:43:25 <Smoovious> and how it references where the block is located on the map 18:43:29 <Smoovious> I already did, thanks 18:44:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> keep in mind, it has to be both space and time efficient 18:44:25 *** Zahl22 [~SENFGURKE@p549F0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:44:28 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Zahl22))] 18:44:28 *** Zahl22 is now known as Zahl 18:44:46 <Smoovious> it will be... 18:45:29 <Smoovious> the only thing I can see killing it, is people continuing to signal every single segment of track like they like to do now 18:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> don't care about those ;) 18:45:44 *** KritiK [Maxim@ppp85-140-206-9.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 18:46:24 <caladan> huh... 18:46:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> more important is a possible expansibility for PBS 18:46:33 <caladan> there are more and more of em... 18:46:54 <Smoovious> PBS is what I'm thinking of... 18:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> there will be less of them when newsignalling ideas get live 18:47:57 <Smoovious> well, not PBS specifically... but more, realistic signalling... and in order to do that, ya really gotta think in signal blocks 18:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, of course that is probably the best way to go, but the devil is in the detail ;) 18:49:29 <Smoovious> it shouldn't be difficult... the train simulators I've played already represent track like that, including switches and signal locations... 18:50:07 <Smoovious> probably need modifications, but the basic concept should still be sound 18:50:11 <Smoovious> brb 18:52:55 *** Zahl [~SENFGURKE@p549F0C25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:47 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 18:59:17 <nairan> i live in bavaria 19:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause2> oh no! 19:01:01 <Bjarni> what's wrong with Bavaria? 19:01:29 <valhalla1w> it is undrinkable 19:01:38 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:01:40 <Bjarni> that's for sure 19:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a foreign country! 19:02:04 <hylje> its bavaria. 19:02:04 <pv2b> it's got pus in it! 19:02:06 <Bjarni> then again, so is all beer 19:02:16 <Bjarni> or should I say bier to you guys? 19:02:23 <hylje> no 19:02:27 <hylje> use bear 19:02:38 <Bjarni> bear sized bier 19:02:54 <Eddi|zuHause2> you can call it "Plörre" if you want... 19:03:02 <Bjarni> lol 19:03:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know of any english translation of that word ;) 19:03:33 <Bjarni> that's how we spell well, some sort of pretty wet mud 19:03:35 <pv2b> beer is öl in swedish. 19:03:44 <pv2b> that is funny to german speakers for some reason 19:03:45 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:03:55 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:04 <Bjarni> pv2b: in German öl means oil 19:04:20 <pv2b> i knew that. 19:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> <Bjarni> that's how we spell well, some sort of pretty wet mud <- that is probably not a coincidence ;) 19:04:54 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 19:05:10 <Bjarni> thinking about it, if some person is really drunk, you can call it "Plörre drunk" 19:05:28 <Bjarni> actually we use the letter ø, not ö, but that's usual 19:05:36 <Bjarni> it's the same thing anyway 19:05:56 <hylje> yeh, you silly danes 19:05:58 <pv2b> æø should be eliminated and replaced with äö. 19:06:01 <pv2b> they're useless characters 19:06:02 <Bjarni> no 19:06:12 <hylje> yes 19:06:14 <pv2b> yes 19:06:29 <Bjarni> I knew it 19:06:32 <valhalla1w> danish should be eliminated. 19:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's not that we didn't try... 19:07:12 <Bjarni> the other EU countries prefer Denmark to be a tax paying piece of land without it's own will or culture 19:07:17 <hylje> you proposing that sweden invades danmark and mandates swedish as the only langage? 19:07:29 <Bjarni> now we are not even allowed to speak our own language anymore 19:07:31 <caladan> is it the same in your languages that children forget to use special letters? 19:07:45 <pv2b> hylje: i suggest we give skåne away to denmark and then nuke skåne and the rest of denmark. 19:08:00 <pv2b> caladan: no. 19:08:01 <hylje> defcon all over again? 19:08:16 <pv2b> speaking of defcon. i wonder if that has come out for mac yet. *checks* 19:08:33 <Bjarni> pv2b: err... after Stockholm moved their social problems to Skåne, you want to give Skåne back to Denmark? 19:08:39 <valhalla1w> speaking of defcon.. I was disappointed by IV 19:08:40 <pv2b> nope. 19:08:41 <hylje> its a plan i tell ya 19:08:46 <Sacro> defcon? 19:09:09 <pv2b> Bjarni: exactly. 19:09:10 <Bjarni> well, we wouldn't mind getting the land back, but not the social problems Stockholm created 19:09:43 * Sacro nukes Bjarniland 19:10:07 * valhalla1w nukes Sacro 19:10:13 <pv2b> that, or we could just set into action the plan to dig skåne away 19:10:14 <Sacro> :o 19:10:15 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 19:10:18 <pv2b> GRÄV BORT SKÅNE! :-) 19:10:25 * Sacro aims his ICBMs at valhalla1w 19:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> <caladan> is it the same in your languages that children forget to use special letters? <- what exactly do you mean? 19:11:30 <hylje> pv2b: looks like we have a common problem. you swedes want to offload skåne to denmark, we want to offload turku to sweden :-) 19:11:42 <pv2b> you mean Åbo 19:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> 70% of all people cannot spell correctly... that is so in any language 19:11:53 <pv2b> can we have Vasa too? :-) 19:11:59 <hylje> pv2b: i wasnt talking swedish was i? :) 19:12:07 <hylje> pv2b: in english finnish names are ok 19:12:23 <pv2b> bleh. stupid finnish people favorizing their own langage 19:12:25 <pv2b> language 19:12:42 <pv2b> you should know that Swedish is the more international language of the two :-) 19:12:42 <hylje> is that wrong by any scale? 19:13:05 <hylje> nah. maybe over there :-) 19:13:24 <pv2b> seriously. finnish is a language isolate. with maybe a little in common with hungarian 19:13:40 <pv2b> swedish is just any other language pronounced in our own way 19:13:43 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:49 <pv2b> also, swedish is an official language in *two* countries 19:13:58 <pv2b> that officially qualifies it as an international language 19:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, swedish is just a really bad dialect of english 19:14:05 <hylje> in other words, swedish is just another language which is fucked up just because 19:14:08 <Bjarni> I once saw on the news on the first of April that there was a secret plan to blow up the link between Skåne/Halland and the rest of Sweden. This would make the land move southwards and then the bridge is actually built to prevent the land from moving all the way to Germany. This should all be parts of a huge secret plot to regain old Danish land 19:14:09 <SpComb> :( 19:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> german is official language in at least 5 countries 19:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> and a few autonomous areas 19:14:41 <pv2b> Bjarni: OOOH so that's waht they're doing in the halland ridge tunnel 19:14:45 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:14:51 <pv2b> Bjarni: they're placing huge explosive charges :-) 19:14:57 <Bjarni> :D 19:14:59 <hylje> its a trap 19:15:00 <Bjarni> bbl 19:15:07 * Bjarni got some blowing up to do 19:15:14 * Bjarni got some land to steal 19:15:20 * Bjarni got some dinner to eat 19:15:22 <hylje> not suspicious 19:15:23 <pv2b> i've suspected the halland ridge tunnel was some kind of secret government project all along 19:15:24 <Bjarni> pick one 19:15:31 <pv2b> i was right all along! 19:15:58 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [] 19:15:58 <SpComb> and swedish is only a official language in 1.5 countries 19:16:11 <pv2b> SpComb: as opposed to 1 country that finnish is official in. we win. 19:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> i pick the dinner, you can have the rest 19:16:17 <pv2b> SpComb: estonian doesn't count. 19:16:25 <hylje> finland is winland thus we win. 19:16:37 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:16:46 <pv2b> but sweden discovered vinland in the 1100's or 1200's :-) 19:16:47 <SpComb> if we assume a rounding error to 1.49999999, we can round this down to 1, since you can't have half-countries 19:16:54 <hylje> its one v off win 19:17:08 <hylje> no dice 19:17:26 <Nigel> i vote Finland for the sake of it 19:17:28 <pv2b> oh well, icelanders, but still. we could conquer them. 19:18:00 <hylje> what good would conquering iceland do 19:18:07 <pv2b> hylje: thermal power 19:18:16 <hylje> its fairly local 19:18:25 <hylje> how would you move that to mainland? 19:18:35 <pv2b> hylje: and you could put up a radar base to detect incoming ICBM's from denmark's secret nuclear bases on greenland 19:18:36 <SpComb> tubes 19:18:37 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:49 <hylje> SpComb: hueg heat tubes are hueeeeeeg 19:19:06 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 19:19:29 <hylje> pv2b: yeah. defcon. i rest my case. 19:19:48 <pv2b> i wish iv came out with a mac version of defcon some day 19:19:51 <pv2b> i really want to play it :-) 19:21:54 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:18 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 19:24:56 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 19:27:10 *** PandaMojo__ is now known as PandaMojo 19:27:27 * PandaMojo finally svn updates to the C++ version 19:29:31 <Wolf01> i hope you don't have patches to sync 19:30:13 <PandaMojo> I have some that I may. 19:30:30 <PandaMojo> I made a backup though, so I can deal with that later :P 19:31:09 *** Mizipzor [~Mizipzor@c-b66370d5.020-16-6b736810.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:22 <PandaMojo> ...svn stat lists "openttd_vs80.suo" as an unmanaged file, and I can autocomplete the filename using tab from cmd.exe, but when I hit enter on it, del reports it can't find the file >_> 19:31:44 <PandaMojo> ...what the heck lol 19:32:10 <Wolf01> attrib -h -a -r -s filename 19:32:19 <PandaMojo> dir doesn't list it either 19:32:32 <Wolf01> try it 19:32:47 <PandaMojo> Prints nothing. 19:32:52 <Wolf01> dir it 19:33:28 <PandaMojo> Hmm. If I wildcard it, it doesn't show up, but it does list it if I do the autocomplete. 19:33:47 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:57 <Triffid_Hunter> PandaMojo: sounds like filesystem corruption 19:34:00 <PandaMojo> No, scratch that, it only doesn't show if the wildcard could possibly match anything else too. 19:34:20 <PandaMojo> Explorer shows it... 19:34:36 <PandaMojo> Not RO or hidden... 19:34:37 <stillunknown> Celestar: are you here? 19:34:46 <PandaMojo> I can recycle it 19:35:00 <stillunknown> or peter1138 19:35:33 <CIA-1> miham * r8069 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): [Translations] Moved japanese from unfinished, good job translators 19:35:47 <PandaMojo> Bizzare. 19:36:08 <Sacro> ooh japanese 19:42:01 <PandaMojo> 80 errors, all fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h': No such file or directory :3 19:42:26 <hylje> :3 19:43:23 <MiHaMiX> PandaMojo: ? 19:43:28 <PandaMojo> Looks like it isn't! 19:43:36 <PandaMojo> MiHaMiX: Trying to compile from openttd_vs80.suo 19:43:56 <MiHaMiX> hmm 19:43:59 <PandaMojo> lang project reported it built successfully, but it's failed. 19:44:10 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-150-11.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:44:13 <MiHaMiX> .suo ? 19:45:37 <PandaMojo> the solution 19:45:46 <PandaMojo> err .sln 19:45:48 <PandaMojo> heh 19:51:55 <stillunknown> KUDr: are you here? 19:53:29 * PandaMojo keeps accidentally rebuilding everything >_> 19:54:06 <PandaMojo> ... 19:54:18 <PandaMojo> And my IDE is being retarded or my FS really is on the frits 19:54:20 <PandaMojo> *fritz 19:57:23 <PandaMojo> strings.h appears to be outputting to objs\langs\table rather than src\table. Is this desired (I should patch #include paths), or undesired (I should patch output directory)? 20:00:12 * PandaMojo pokes MiHaMiX 20:01:38 <PandaMojo> Looks like objs\langs or objs\langs\table, actually 20:02:06 <Bjarni> <PandaMojo> 80 errors, all fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'table/strings.h': No such file or directory :3 <-- what are you trying to do? 20:02:11 <Bjarni> compiling works for me 20:02:17 <Bjarni> at least the last time I tried 20:02:30 <PandaMojo> Bjarni: Full clean rebuild, removing any previous versions of strings.h? 20:04:02 <Bjarni> I just tried making a clean build based on head revision 20:04:04 <Bjarni> it works here 20:05:15 <Bjarni> are you trying to use MSVC or something? 20:05:19 <PandaMojo> Yes. 20:05:26 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-83-100-150-11.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:05:31 <Bjarni> use your mac 20:05:35 <Bjarni> then it will work ;) 20:05:42 <PandaMojo> >_> 20:05:47 <Bjarni> <_< 20:05:49 <PandaMojo> I'd rather fix the problem, no 20:05:51 <PandaMojo> ? 20:05:55 <Bjarni> sure 20:06:02 <PandaMojo> Since unlike my mac, this computer has 2 monitors. 20:06:04 <PandaMojo> :D 20:06:19 <Bjarni> but the issue is in the project file, so there is little that I can do 20:06:32 <Bjarni> OSX works rather well with two monitors 20:06:45 <Bjarni> it just demand that you actually got two monitors connected to it 20:07:14 <hylje> omg! 20:07:20 <PandaMojo> Bjarni: My iBook also doesn't have connectors for multiple monitors. 20:07:25 <PandaMojo> And I figured out my horrible mistake. 20:07:34 <Bjarni> ... 20:07:40 <Bjarni> no monitor outout? 20:07:44 <Bjarni> *output 20:07:53 <PandaMojo> Well, only one. 20:07:55 <Bjarni> it have been a while since I have seen one of those 20:07:59 <hylje> ibooks usually have one, but not for extended desktop 20:08:03 <PandaMojo> And the built in LCD is the wrong rez 20:08:12 <Bjarni> ahh 20:08:49 <Bjarni> well, I once used a PowerBook, that got a 640x400 monochrome monitor and no monitor output 20:08:57 <Bjarni> you are in better conditions 20:09:01 <PandaMojo> Anyways, now that I'm using *semicolons* to seperate #include paths after adding ..\useful\include, it works :D 20:09:15 <Bjarni> I used that PowerBook for coding, so why do you complain? 20:09:16 <Bjarni> :P 20:09:28 <Bjarni> PandaMojo: LOL 20:09:36 <Bjarni> well, that's hardly an issue for me 20:09:45 <Bjarni> your failure to write 20:09:52 <PandaMojo> Indeed. 20:10:12 <hylje> PandaMojo has clearly used too much python -- judging from the non-;ness 20:10:33 <PandaMojo> hylje: MSVC likes whitespaces for most of it's deliminators. 20:11:02 <PandaMojo> (And requires IIRC, even) 20:11:13 <hylje> yay, nonstandardness 20:11:18 <PandaMojo> Indeed. 20:11:28 <PandaMojo> No diagnostic for screwing up with the extra include paths either. 20:11:33 <PandaMojo> Just ignoring the earlier one. 20:11:37 * PandaMojo mutters 20:11:46 <hylje> :3 20:13:24 *** Ailure [~Coming@h140n3c1o912.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:38 *** Blue [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 20:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> <PandaMojo> strings.h appears to be outputting to objs\langs\table rather than src\table. Is this desired (I should patch #include paths), or undesired (I should patch output directory)? <- that is desired behaviour, src should not have any autogenerated files 20:20:35 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:22:06 <PandaMojo> Indeed. It works right, I just futzed things up using the "useful" stuff :P 20:37:37 <XeryusTC> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=540906#540906 <- rofl! 20:37:52 * XeryusTC mumbles something about evasive action :P 20:38:46 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> err... he asks us if we trust bill gates? ;o 20:40:18 <Wolf01> i prefer to trust my cat 20:40:42 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@82-43-58-81.cable.ubr04.croy.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:42 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 20:43:32 *** Blue [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:24 <XeryusTC> Wolf01: i prefer to get licked by a cat :P 20:45:59 <Bjarni> you are a woman? 20:48:02 <MeusH|gone> cats' tongues have specific texture 20:48:09 *** MeusH|gone is now known as MeusH 20:48:17 <MeusH> they are funny in touch :p 20:48:34 <Bjarni> I never got licked by a cat 20:48:48 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has joined #openttd 20:48:58 <Bjarni> but at one time a cat jumped up and bite me in my head D: 20:49:10 <XeryusTC> owned! 20:49:17 <XeryusTC> cat tongues are like sanding paper 20:49:19 <MeusH> headshot! 20:49:20 <XeryusTC> but wet 20:57:42 <MeusH> see you later, 21th january 20:57:50 *** MeusH [~MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Quit: bye - quit] 20:58:47 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:44 <Giddorah> I feel sorry for those russians :S 21:05:58 <Giddorah> They're pumping out stuff, and get nothing but bloats because they can't speak the language 21:06:10 <Giddorah> If they got a real task, they might even contribute to the real game 21:06:46 <Giddorah> Problem is... Can you give tasks to russian people? Or would that violate some healthcode or the UN or something? 21:06:55 <Giddorah> We need to send them money or food or what? 21:08:12 *** KUDr [KUDr@mazanec1.netbox.cz] has joined #openttd 21:15:47 <Giddorah> Forum died or my internet crapped out on me? 21:23:24 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:30 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has joined #openttd 21:26:39 *** scia [~scia@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:27:02 <Sacro> Giddorah: most likely the forum died 21:28:27 <stillunknown> weird, i added some functions and they don't show on gprof 21:30:23 <caladan> stillunknown: and where do you call em? 21:31:44 <stillunknown> TrainController 21:33:20 <stillunknown> @caladan 21:37:08 <caladan> hmm, and didnt the TrainController function gain time? 21:37:11 <caladan> or percentage? 21:37:40 <caladan> maybe your new function is included in upper level function execution time 21:38:26 *** pecisk [~pecisk@purvc-44-54.maksinets.lv] has joined #openttd 21:38:46 *** Mucht_ [~Mucht@p57A0E74E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:40:10 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@dD5772982.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Whoopsy] 21:41:37 <Darkvater> PandaMojo: got it to work? 21:41:47 <PandaMojo> Darkvater: Yes, PEBKAC 21:41:49 <PandaMojo> :D 21:41:56 <Darkvater> was going to say that 21:42:23 <stillunknown> caladan: i wish i had a savegame with a lot of trains 21:42:44 <PandaMojo> Actually, I blame Microsoft's IDE for not giving me an error, but regardless, it's not OTTD's fault :P 21:42:58 <Darkvater> you just would've had to do Build Solution 21:43:09 <Darkvater> and set openttd as startup project if you want to run it 21:43:19 <PandaMojo> Nah, needed to add the paths to the useful package 21:43:25 <PandaMojo> And MSVC takes 21:43:38 <PandaMojo> space to mean "ignore previous include dir" Rather than a sperator. 21:43:40 * Darkvater points at the wiki or docs/msvc_readme 21:43:45 *** MUcht [~Mucht@p57A0FB5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:39 <stillunknown> anyone know of stock savegames that have lot's of trains? 21:45:56 <caladan> do cheat and clone trains :D 21:47:26 <stillunknown> i still have to built lot's of rail 21:47:44 <caladan> how many? 21:47:55 <caladan> hmm, right :> 21:49:16 <caladan> so take empty scenario and build some... 21:49:49 <CIA-1> glx * r8070 /trunk/src/heightmap.cpp: -Fix r5815: missing initialisation could cause crash when loading 24bpp BMP heightmap 21:54:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown: try the openttdcoop savegames 21:54:33 <glx> pile transport :) 21:54:45 *** l_Blue_l [~number_on@CPE-60-226-158-67.qld.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:02:31 <XeryusTC> hmm, r8000+ already? 22:05:35 <Wolf01> seem so 22:06:05 <Darkvater> Celestar: ping 22:07:09 <Darkvater> KUDr: I like r8066 :) 22:07:16 <KUDr> :) 22:07:56 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 22:08:40 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:40 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.159] has joined #openttd 22:18:54 <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/standard/screenshot.png 22:18:55 <Brianetta> Yey! 22:18:57 <Brianetta> A train! 22:18:59 <Brianetta> and a station! 22:19:06 <Darkvater> w00t 22:19:14 <Darkvater> you should archive your shots :) 22:20:21 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:20:30 *** ufoun [ha@b07-305a.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 22:23:06 <XeryusTC> Brianetta: is that screenshot thing running in the minimal stable resolution? 22:24:27 <Brianetta> XeryusTC: Yes 22:25:18 <caladan> Brianetta: how does it work? 22:25:22 *** ChrisM87 [~ChrisM@p54AC76FD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:47 <Brianetta> autopilot 22:25:58 * Brianetta says, as if that should explain all 22:26:21 <Brianetta> The server has a screenshot command, same as the client 22:26:38 <caladan> and how you trigger it? 22:27:04 <Brianetta> autopilot uses its timer 22:28:05 <Darkvater> so KUDr do you still have that face-patch somewhere? 22:28:11 <KUDr> yes 22:28:20 <KUDr> i will rewrite it to c++ 22:28:27 <KUDr> it will be much shorter 22:28:33 <KUDr> much less code 22:28:33 <Darkvater> ok 22:28:37 <Brianetta> face-patch? 22:28:37 <FlashMCD> hello my lovely people 22:28:48 <FlashMCD> zomg my name is meh alternate! 22:28:51 *** FlashMCD is now known as FlashFF 22:28:53 <FlashFF> phew 22:29:06 <FlashFF> does anyone know roughly how a client unique ID is made? 22:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> jez's face customi[sz]ation? 22:29:40 <Darkvater> well it's more like KUDr's face customisation 22:29:51 <KUDr> no 22:29:55 <KUDr> Jez's 22:30:00 <Darkvater> no 22:30:01 <KUDr> my is only code 22:30:05 <Darkvater> so it's yours 22:30:06 <Darkvater> :) 22:30:14 <KUDr> Jez's is whole algorithm, ideas and so on 22:30:28 <KUDr> implementation is my 22:30:30 <KUDr> yes 22:30:33 <Darkvater> ok then it's Jez's patch implemented by KUDr 22:30:39 <KUDr> yes 22:31:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> i still find it ironic that he complains about the complification of the colour scheme selection while in the same breath he complicates face selection ;) 22:35:30 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E4E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:37:52 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-168-177-167.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd 22:39:42 <stillunknown> Celestar: here? 22:41:24 <stillunknown> how is the general thought on cpu vs memory usage? 22:42:14 *** mikl [~mikl@tbv.faderhuset.org] has quit [Quit: In the end, all that matters is your relation with God...] 22:43:54 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has quit [Quit: HMage] 22:45:10 *** BFM [~chatzilla@CPE-138-130-140-81.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:46:12 <Giddorah> U know what you should do with the Autopilot? :D 22:46:27 <stillunknown> who? 22:46:36 <Rubidium> Darkvater: you here? 22:46:41 <Giddorah> *you as in... Anyone who has the source for it 22:46:42 * Darkvater looks around 22:46:54 <Rubidium> http://www.tt-forums.net/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=15789 <- he's spamming, can you do something about it? 22:47:17 <stillunknown> i've been looking at reducing the usage of the train collision function 22:47:21 <Rubidium> hmm, seems somebody else removed him already 22:47:23 <stillunknown> because it is said to be expensive 22:47:26 <Darkvater> orudge`: ! 22:47:33 <Darkvater> remove him 22:47:44 <Darkvater> it's already removed :) 22:47:51 <Giddorah> Can only find 1 post by him 22:47:51 <Darkvater> I can only move his posts to spambin 22:48:22 <Rubidium> yeah, as I just said, somebody already removed his posts 22:48:39 <Giddorah> Awesome 22:48:41 <stillunknown> is a reduction from 14-15% to 2.5% worth some memory? 22:48:59 <Giddorah> ? 22:49:04 <stillunknown> percentage is total time spent on the collision enum something 22:49:17 <Giddorah> How much memory? 22:49:18 <stillunknown> i tested a map with A LOT of trains 22:49:35 <stillunknown> 9 bits of memory per tile 22:49:46 *** BJH2 [~chatzilla@e182091072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]] 22:50:00 <Giddorah> That's what you need to take the time spent from 15 to 2.5? 22:50:05 <Rubidium> so a little over ~4.5 MB for the largest map 22:50:20 <stillunknown> i ran a test 22:50:32 <stillunknown> that sais what % of time is spent on what function 22:50:39 <stillunknown> normally it's 15% 22:50:46 <stillunknown> i reduced it to less than 3 22:50:54 <stillunknown> and the new stuff is a minor load in comparison 22:51:06 <Rubidium> now the question is, did it make another function use _much_ more processor power... 22:51:25 <Rubidium> so, did the run-time decrease by about 10%? 22:52:11 <orudge`> Darkvater? 22:52:17 <orudge`> Ah 22:52:19 <orudge`> the spam? 22:52:23 *** orudge` is now known as orudge 22:52:26 <Rubidium> orudge: yes 22:54:37 <Brianetta> They're dropping like flies 22:54:40 <Brianetta> the buses 22:54:43 <stillunknown> Rubidium: the normal game was maxing my cpu out almost 22:54:46 <Brianetta> on the level crossings 22:54:56 <stillunknown> the other one definately had more air, around 80% i think 22:55:05 *** TheMask97 [martijn@sirius-r4.ne2000.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:59 <stillunknown> although the game was filled and not exactly working perfectly (probably an old savegame or newgrf issues) 22:58:18 <stillunknown> seems i was wrong about the cpu usage 22:58:28 <Rubidium> did the game work perfectly without the change? 22:58:59 <stillunknown> no, definately not 23:00:55 <stillunknown> i think i'll leave the benchmarking up to others 23:01:56 <stillunknown> because gprof definately suggest large improvements 23:02:12 <stillunknown> but i can't seem to get that from the actual cpu usage 23:03:13 <stillunknown> maybe gprof has too much overhead 23:04:57 <BFM> Anyone play Black & White lately? Is it worth a reinstall? What about the sequal, was it any good? 23:05:10 *** hylej [hylje@194.187.214.214] has joined #openttd 23:05:10 *** hylje [hylje@194.187.214.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:15 <stillunknown> is it possible that ottd changes gamespeed according to available cpu power? 23:06:53 <Darkvater> it goes slower if it can't keep the standard rate 23:06:53 *** HMage [~HMage@85.21.179.41] has joined #openttd 23:08:13 <stillunknown> that explains the lack of difference in cpu load 23:08:35 <Darkvater> you should use fast-forward 23:09:07 <stillunknown> release build gives better idea 23:09:25 *** Dextro [~dextro@84.90.228.100] has joined #openttd 23:09:28 <stillunknown> 40% vs 50+% cpu usage 23:09:36 <stillunknown> ~1000 trains 23:09:42 <Darkvater> you ALWAYS benchmark in release mode 23:10:00 <stillunknown> not if you want gprof figures :-) 23:10:09 <Wolf01> night all 23:10:12 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host27-194-dynamic.58-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 23:10:52 <Darkvater> than gprof sucks 23:10:59 <Darkvater> or you don't know how to use it 23:11:09 <Darkvater> if your binary is not optimized it makes no sense to profile 23:11:48 <stillunknown> gprof needs debug symbols for detailed information, but now that i think of it, the basic info is probably always available 23:12:09 <Darkvater> debugging symbols can still be present if your binary is optimized 23:12:26 <stillunknown> true, i didn't say i used debug mode 3 23:15:03 <stillunknown> Darkvater: nevertheless, is a less cpu usage prefered over a little more memory? 23:15:37 <Darkvater> depends on how much less cpu it is 23:15:56 <Darkvater> for example loadwaitvehicle can use 80% cpu which can be changed to 2% with a little memory 23:16:40 <stillunknown> and is that done atm? 23:16:48 <Darkvater> not yet 23:16:50 <stillunknown> i said, 9 bits per tile 23:17:46 <Darkvater> well 9 bits turns into at least 16 23:17:49 <Maedhros> proper fifo loading would help to avoid using loadwaitvehicle at all 23:19:34 <stillunknown> Darkvater: the 9th bit can probably be stolen somewhere 23:19:49 <stillunknown> the other 8 however 23:21:32 <stillunknown> (the 9th is seperate in function) 23:22:05 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat2.arachne.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:22:20 <stillunknown> did an unfair comparison it seems, 50% vs 60% cpu usage is the difference (with identical openttd.cfg this time) 23:23:09 <caladan> stillunknown: you get that from that gprof? 23:23:21 <stillunknown> no, just running figures 23:23:28 <stillunknown> i have gprof data as well 23:26:27 <stillunknown> with debug (level 1) on and gprof openttd becomes cpu limited 23:26:43 <stillunknown> but time for bed now 23:26:54 <FlashFF> does anyone know roughly how a client unique ID is made? 23:28:39 *** MYOB [~vision@h1.vpn.gov.ie] has joined #openttd 23:33:05 <Brianetta> the 19th of March, 2048 23:33:19 * Brianetta hugs his working date parsing routine 23:33:20 <Brianetta> the 26th of March, 2048 23:33:48 *** Rens2Sea [~Rens2Sea@213.211.185.168] has quit [] 23:33:54 <MYOB> erm, does the build system actually REQUIRE a static zlib? 23:35:17 <glx> MYOB: which platform? 23:35:38 <MYOB> beos - however the configure --help output specifies "zlib.a" 23:36:07 <glx> static lib is only needed for static build 23:37:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> yay, i managed to do daily savegame ;) 23:37:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> (autosave) 23:37:45 <MYOB> yes, that would be normal... however it appears to be specifically looking for that - it didn't find the perfectly valid zlib.so in my path 23:39:52 <glx> you can use --with-zlib=zlib.so I think 23:40:23 <MYOB> yeah, that got it to configure at least 23:40:38 <MYOB> can tell there appears to be 0 maintaince for the BeOS port when I'm busy ;) 23:40:47 <MYOB> as I've hit in to something straight away 23:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> i can't say i know a lot of BeOS users 23:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> (where "a lot" = "any") 23:41:48 <MYOB> <-- 23:42:15 <caladan> We are impressed :-) 23:42:37 <glx> MYOB: --disable-static should work too (as in this case it doesn't try to find libz.a and use -lz) 23:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> honestly, i do not know you... 23:42:53 <MYOB> string.o(.text+0xa4e): In function `MapLogX(void)': 23:42:53 <MYOB> : undefined reference to `_map_log_x' 23:42:54 <MYOB> 23:42:59 <MYOB> that function isn't in string.cpp 23:43:02 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: well, that tells something about his activity the last few years 23:43:07 <Bjarni> hi Cian 23:43:15 <MYOB> Bjarni you scared me away :P 23:43:35 <MYOB> (more accurately I've been working my arse off in BT Broadband) 23:44:04 <glx> hmm peter1138 has some problems with BT IIRC 23:44:17 <MYOB> hahah 23:44:22 <Bjarni> yeah 23:44:30 <Bjarni> MYOB did something on purpose to get even 23:44:34 <Bjarni> for something 23:44:48 <Bjarni> even though nobody remembers for what 23:44:55 <MYOB> I'm leaving very soon and may never be in the office again, but if its consumer BB related I should be able to help or point him to someone who can 23:46:16 <MYOB> soon-to-be-ex-Adminstration Co-ordinator, Esclations Helpdesk ;) 23:47:26 <MYOB> right, doing a clean checkout as the mad amount of stuff moved in the last one may be leading to problemts 23:49:41 <Bjarni> sounds like you are getting sacked 23:49:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E4E5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:50 <MYOB> still getting that MapLogX stuff 23:49:58 <MYOB> Bjarni laid off 23:50:13 <Bjarni> too lazy? 23:50:14 <MYOB> jobs moving to cheaper sites in northern ireland/northern england 23:50:16 <MYOB> no 23:50:46 <Bjarni> ohh... greedy 23:51:18 <MYOB> BT are nothing but 23:51:49 <MYOB> anyway, why does the build system seem to think MapLogX and similar are in string.cpp? and strgen.cpp? 23:53:38 <Darkvater> this same bug was present with the watcom compiler as well 23:53:52 <glx> it must be in one of the includes 23:54:11 <MYOB> I'm "just" using an antique gcc 23:54:24 <Darkvater> I think it's something that if you declare a variable 'extern' it'll complain if it can't find the actual definition 23:54:30 <Darkvater> or something like that it was 23:54:42 <Darkvater> with some crappy compilers 23:54:45 <glx> try to use VARDEF in the header 23:55:11 <Darkvater> try to sort out the includes rather :) 23:55:25 <Darkvater> VARDEF won't work cause you'll get 'multiple define' errors 23:57:04 <MYOB> remembering that I'm just a copy-and-pasting porter basically, what did the Watcom users do? 23:57:22 <Darkvater> add a horrible cludge 23:58:13 <Darkvater> see strgen.cpp:30 23:58:38 <Darkvater> but best not to do that cause I've been to deleting hose multiple times already