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02:45:16 *** keoz has quit IRC 07:11:20 *** Alberth has joined #openttd.dev 07:11:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth 07:24:37 *** Supercheese_ has quit IRC 09:45:03 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd.dev 09:45:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v frosch123 10:25:33 *** keoz has joined #openttd.dev 11:55:25 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3594/ would this fix be sufficient, or do we need something more strict? May become quite complicated for its goal perhaps 12:12:42 <frosch123> i do not dare to ask what monster you have in mind :) i would say fixing a single string is fine :p 12:13:03 <Alberth> I have nothing in mind, just wondering, mostly :) 12:13:34 <Alberth> maybe you had a simple way to prevent this problem from happening again 12:14:01 <frosch123> oh, i have! let users report them :) 12:15:18 <Alberth> this wasn't reported yet, I think :) 12:15:37 <frosch123> it's fine to fix nevertheless then :) 12:15:56 <Alberth> :) 12:18:18 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3595/ to get away from the double "advanced settings", what about "program settings" ? 12:22:40 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3596/ and maybe we want also change settings from the main menu? :p 12:35:53 <frosch123> "program settings" makes no sense to me 12:36:15 <frosch123> either call it "game settings" or just "settings" 12:36:36 <Alberth> we already have "game settings" , as in settings that affect the save game 12:36:39 <frosch123> imho rather rename the "game options", but they are supposed to vanish anyway 12:37:20 <frosch123> locally i already added more settings from game options to the tree 12:37:40 <Alberth> yeah, I was trying to get a quick solution to the double advanced settings problems 12:37:42 <frosch123> only things left are the settings with some "custom value popup" and the base sets 12:38:10 <Alberth> but it's fine if we delay that 12:38:13 <frosch123> so, imho renaming "advanced settings" to "settings" is the most forward way 12:38:22 <frosch123> and other term just increases the confusion 12:38:30 <frosch123> *any 12:38:39 <Alberth> but we have AI settings, newgrf settings, game script settings 12:38:55 <frosch123> "general" settings? :) 12:39:29 <frosch123> or "settings tree"? 12:39:37 <Alberth> options or game options seems better? 12:40:17 <Alberth> fair enough, let's just postpone this rename 12:42:13 <Alberth> renaming to another intermediate name doesn't seem very useful 12:43:48 <frosch123> ah, i remember some plan i had: in the intro gui call it "client settings" and filter for client settings 12:44:10 <frosch123> in mapgen window show "gameplay" and "company settings" and possibly "advanced mapgen settings" 12:47:04 <Alberth> and we have our X different settings windows back? :D could work for new users though, as the number of settings to change gets much smaller 12:47:45 <frosch123> well, you could still toggle the filter when the window is opened 12:47:52 <frosch123> i mean just a default selection 12:48:03 <Alberth> seems useful 12:48:25 <frosch123> any most of the settings, esp. newgrf and script, you only need for new games 12:49:15 <Alberth> indeed 12:52:24 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r26725 || Logs: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd.dev || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking" 12:53:55 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3597/ <- something like that is my *current* vision 12:56:27 <frosch123> but i am also dreaming of a mapgen height preview in the mapgen/load heightmap wnidow :p 12:59:27 <Alberth> my brother had the idea of displaying the minimap instead of the world view while generating the world 12:59:46 <frosch123> but that is already too late :p 13:00:13 <frosch123> i mean only generatnig the height (1% of the generation time or so), while still making changes in the settings 13:00:30 <frosch123> so you can see what "heightmap rotation" and "variety distribution" actually do 13:00:47 <frosch123> and you can hit rerandomise instead of generate->quit->newgame 13:01:18 <Alberth> yeah, the important part is that you don't want to switch between screens 13:02:17 <Alberth> you don't think that if we have heightmaps that way, the next step would be eg industry placement preview? 13:04:07 <frosch123> there will ofc be the suggestion; but imho it is way less important than the general terrain shape 13:04:28 <frosch123> the more towns and industries there are in total, the less their position matter 13:04:32 <frosch123> also they change over time 13:04:52 <frosch123> also you would have to zoom-in to see individual industries 13:05:10 <frosch123> if you take a look at other games: sometimes they come with a preview, but it never has all details 13:05:30 <frosch123> and the time it takes to generate a map is also a user-understandable reason, why it is not possible :) 13:06:14 <frosch123> also, once you have a preview for heightmaps: you may also want to add sliders to adjust the greyscale->height mapping 13:07:13 <Alberth> you could display a minimap in the world generation window in some way, let the generation process run, and hit abort or "try again" when you see things go wrong 13:07:46 <frosch123> hmm, also a nice idea :) 13:08:10 <Alberth> or hit "start game" once it's done, and you're happy 13:08:18 <frosch123> but also quite hard currently, because of all the global variables 13:08:48 <frosch123> we need a black intro screen, no savegame :p 13:09:03 <Alberth> "night edition" openttd :p 16:40:36 <Alberth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3598/ just coded this arctic forest map generation warning, but it won't fly, I think, too many assumptions about the industry set 16:41:41 <frosch123> yes, it only applies to default industries :/ 16:42:03 <Alberth> maybe we need something post-generation, like the non-existing vehicles thingie 16:43:34 <frosch123> possibly: something like: is there an industry of every type, which is available in this year, and which has a >0% spawning chance 16:44:05 <frosch123> there are also some newgrf flags, like: "spawn at least 1 industry of this type" vs. "don't bother" 16:44:49 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Special_industry_flags_to_define_special_behavior_.281A.29 <- e.g. flag 16 16:44:53 <Alberth> yeah, although I doubt they are used sensibly :) 16:45:39 <frosch123> so, yes, a warning about those industry types which have not been spawned when they should be at game start would be fine 16:46:07 <frosch123> it could give some generic error like: no suitable position on map for industries A, B and C 16:46:12 <Alberth> does the default industry set have that flag? 16:46:57 <frosch123> no, default industries only have date and position restrictions 16:47:12 <frosch123> and zero spawning percentage 16:47:43 <frosch123> basically: tropic lumbermills and oil rigs do not appear on map creation 16:47:54 <frosch123> oh... temperate banks are an issue though 16:48:21 <frosch123> they are quite likely to not be there on map generation, but it is not necessarily something for an error message 16:49:07 <frosch123> nah, wait, we are lucky: temperate banks have 0% chance on mapgen 16:49:17 <Alberth> :D 16:49:20 <frosch123> i guess such kind of patch would be worth a try 16:49:33 <frosch123> once could check it against default industries, firs and ecs and such 16:49:38 <frosch123> and see how often it triggers 16:50:44 <Alberth> depending on how you formulate the message, people may decide to go ahead anyway, perhaps 17:45:53 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "OpenTTD Dev Channel || Latest SVN: r26726 || Logs: http://webster.openttdcoop.org/?channel=openttd.dev || Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd; make sure you are registered to NickServ before asking" 20:02:07 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd.dev 20:02:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Supercheese 20:41:49 *** Alberth has left #openttd.dev 20:48:02 *** frosch123 has quit IRC