Config
Log for #openttdcoop on 4th July 2009:
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00:35:53  <Wall-D> !password
00:35:53  <PublicServer> Wall-D: garret
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05:10:44  <nickman87> !players
05:10:46  <PublicServer> nickman87: There are currently no clients connected to the server
05:10:47  <nickman87> !password
05:10:47  <PublicServer> nickman87: razors
05:11:32  <PublicServer> *** Nickman joined the game
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07:06:51  <nickman87> anyone awake? :)
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07:54:04  <PublicServer> <zakjan> interesting map
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08:36:25  <nickman87> !players
08:36:26  <PublicServer> nickman87: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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08:52:47  <^Spike^> !password
08:52:47  <PublicServer> ^Spike^: skiing
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08:54:39  <Mark> morning
08:54:44  <^Spike^> morning :)
08:54:56  <Mark> !password
08:54:57  <PublicServer> Mark: skiing
08:54:59  <Combuster> mogge Mark
08:55:03  <Mark> :)
08:55:13  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
08:55:40  <PublicServer> <Mark> so now we still have a coal MM
08:55:41  <PublicServer> <Mark> meh
08:55:56  <^Spike^> well it makes money :)
08:56:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> and unbalances the economy
08:56:24  <^Spike^> don't look at me i wanted to do pax :)
08:56:28  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
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08:56:46  <PublicServer> <Mark> i'm tempted to kill it, otherwise we'll have coal surges on the final network
09:01:38  *** Farden has joined #openttdcoop
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09:01:59  <Farden> !playercount
09:01:59  <PublicServer> Farden: Number of players: 2
09:02:01  <Farden> !password
09:02:01  <PublicServer> Farden: royals
09:02:21  <PublicServer> *** Farden joined the game
09:02:23  <PublicServer> <Farden> hi there!
09:02:24  <PublicServer> <Mark> hello
09:02:45  <PublicServer> <Farden> seems that our little plane MM is working well
09:03:07  <PublicServer> <Mark> it's still a coal MM with all its downsides
09:05:27  <PublicServer> <Farden> looking for a place to put a plan...
09:05:32  <PublicServer> <Mark> see !here
09:05:36  <PublicServer> <Mark> plenty of room
09:05:45  <PublicServer> <Mark> dont spend millions on blowing up oceans this early
09:05:52  <PublicServer> <Farden> don't worry^^
09:05:58  <PublicServer> <Farden> I'm not that stupid^^
09:06:19  <PublicServer> <Mark> someone else was
09:06:29  <PublicServer> <Farden> I see
09:06:57  <Combuster> [23:52] <+PublicServer> * combuster wonders where the space for planning is
09:07:01  <Combuster> [23:52] <+PublicServer> <planetm4ker> deep blue
09:07:12  <PublicServer> <Mark> right..
09:09:04  <PublicServer> *** combuster has left the game (leaving)
09:09:57  <Combuster> be making a plan later
09:10:13  <Combuster> too difficult map to just churn out something
09:16:00  *** Combuster has quit IRC
09:17:01  <PublicServer> <Farden> BBL
09:17:04  <PublicServer> *** Farden has left the game (leaving)
09:17:04  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
09:17:14  <Mark> !password
09:17:14  <PublicServer> Mark: crises
09:17:27  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
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10:08:43  <nickman87> !players
10:08:44  <PublicServer> nickman87: There are currently no clients connected to the server
10:09:42  <nickman87> !password
10:09:42  <PublicServer> nickman87: foyers
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10:41:01  <hylje> !password
10:41:01  <PublicServer> hylje: leafed
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10:42:38  <PublicServer> <hylje> oh yeah larger airports
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10:44:38  <Chris_Booth> !password
10:44:38  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: hewing
10:44:47  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game
10:45:21  <PublicServer> *** hylje has joined company #1
10:45:21  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
10:45:27  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> morning
10:45:36  <PublicServer> <hylje> hey
10:45:38  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> this map is never going to work on low TF
10:51:50  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hylje isnt it north south? not east west?
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10:52:15  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> as there is more land in the south
10:52:19  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> than in the west
10:52:53  <PublicServer> <hylje> well i'm just going by the old compass that said north is top left
10:53:08  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> no more coal MM?
10:53:35  <PublicServer> <hylje> i guess not
10:54:22  <Chris_Booth> http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Compass
10:54:30  <Chris_Booth> that is the openttdcoop compass
10:54:36  <Chris_Booth> so north it top of the map
10:54:40  <Chris_Booth> south is bottom
10:54:58  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> east and west have much less land
10:55:09  <HDIEagle> alright my friends that i've gone nocturnal for
10:55:11  <HDIEagle> !password
10:55:11  <PublicServer> HDIEagle: hewing
10:55:21  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lol
10:55:22  <PublicServer> <hylje> durr if you build the ingame compass next to my plan i'm as correct as one can need me
10:55:23  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> we are good
10:55:29  <HDIEagle> !dl win
10:55:29  <PublicServer> HDIEagle: unknown option "win"
10:55:31  <HDIEagle> !dl win32
10:55:31  <PublicServer> HDIEagle: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r16621/openttd-trunk-r16621-windows-win32.zip
10:55:52  <HDIEagle> !grf
10:55:52  <PublicServer> HDIEagle: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF (Version 7.3)
10:56:11  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> ooh i am wrong
10:56:16  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i see what you mean now
10:57:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i always workded with north it top croner of the map
10:57:30  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> but if you work with north being the top longest line
10:57:39  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> which the coop compass suggest then i am wrong
10:58:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> eagle you going to make a plan
10:58:16  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> now your awake at night
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10:58:37  <Nickman87> !players
10:58:39  <PublicServer> Nickman87: Client 53 (Orange) is hylje, in company 1 (OpenTTD Coop  A/S)
10:58:39  <PublicServer> Nickman87: Client 54 (Orange) is Chris Booth, in company 1 (OpenTTD Coop  A/S)
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11:00:22  <Chris_Booth> !archive
11:00:22  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: http://www.openttdcoop.ORG/wiki/PublicServer:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/ProZone:Archive | http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/MemberZone:Archive
11:00:55  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
11:00:55  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
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11:02:45  <Nickman87> !password
11:02:45  <PublicServer> Nickman87: sodomy
11:03:14  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
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11:03:19  <PublicServer> <Nickman> hi there
11:03:22  <PublicServer> <hylje> helo
11:04:44  <PublicServer> <Nickman> secondaries is goods and stuff?
11:04:47  <PublicServer> <hylje> ya
11:04:50  <PublicServer> <Nickman> k :)
11:04:53  <PublicServer> <Nickman> then I'm on track ;)
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11:06:13  <PublicServer> <Nickman> no archive for prev game?
11:06:42  <PublicServer> <hylje> archives aren't automatic yet
11:07:03  <PublicServer> <hylje> it would be hilarious nobody would have the savegame this time
11:07:19  <PublicServer> <Nickman> :D
11:07:25  <PublicServer> <Nickman>  have it? :D
11:07:28  <PublicServer> <hylje> i dont
11:07:31  <PublicServer> <Nickman> no, I don't sorry :)
11:07:32  <HDIEagle> O.o
11:07:48  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I do have autosave files?
11:07:58  <HDIEagle> when did it end
11:07:59  <hylje> check them out before they overwrite
11:08:03  <PublicServer> <Nickman> :)
11:08:04  <HDIEagle> !password
11:08:04  <PublicServer> HDIEagle: sodomy
11:08:35  <HDIEagle> hrm, why my grfs not matchig
11:08:39  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I have one, I'll keep it safe ;)
11:09:10  <HDIEagle> my last save is 2009.07.02 1:25 PM (GMT -8)
11:09:13  <PublicServer> <hylje> check out bananas
11:10:08  <PublicServer> <Nickman> mine 2009.07.03  21:50 European time (GMT + 1 I think?)
11:10:26  <PublicServer> <Nickman> it's from when I last played the game last night so... :)
11:10:36  <PublicServer> <Nickman> right before we were starting a new one
11:10:53  <PublicServer> <hylje> goodie
11:11:01  <HDIEagle> argh, whym i getting a newgrf mismatch :(
11:11:03  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I made a copy of it ;)
11:11:05  <PublicServer> <hylje> so we don't got a Chaos Curse
11:11:12  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I got it to Eagle
11:11:20  <PublicServer> <Nickman> Just updated trough the auto download?
11:11:25  <hylje> HDIEagle: update from bananas and refresh server
11:11:32  <HDIEagle> !bananas
11:11:37  <hylje> it's in your game
11:12:09  <HDIEagle> content dL?
11:12:17  <hylje> yeah
11:12:17  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I like looking at the trains in previous game :D
11:12:25  <HDIEagle> one by one?
11:12:33  <PublicServer> <hylje> select all, download
11:12:47  <HDIEagle> how to select all
11:13:00  <PublicServer> <Nickman> there is a button in the left bottom corner
11:13:10  <PublicServer> <hylje> (careful it's not let's set so double the killer delete select all)
11:13:28  <HDIEagle> hylje: is that english?
11:13:30  <HDIEagle> O.o
11:13:47  <PublicServer> <hylje> nah, a fuckup at a MS voice recognition demo
11:14:11  <HDIEagle> !password
11:14:11  <PublicServer> HDIEagle: jabber
11:14:20  <PublicServer> *** HD1Eagle joined the game
11:14:29  <HDIEagle> i was wanting a long map
11:14:35  <PublicServer> <hylje> 128x2048
11:16:02  <PublicServer> <Nickman> It will be hard to build high capacity statins for drops at the adges :D
11:16:11  <PublicServer> <Nickman> certainly with low terra forming?
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11:18:38  <PublicServer> <Nickman> don't we want city ariports?
11:18:47  <PublicServer> <Nickman> or wait for metropolitan?
11:20:59  <PublicServer> <hylje> you can change them if you wish
11:21:17  <PublicServer> <hylje> a pretty low investment for the potential profits
11:21:28  <PublicServer> <Nickman> city stations?
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11:24:05  <PublicServer> <Nickman> it's impossible to remove wihtout stopping the planes at other airport :D
11:24:31  <HDIEagle> build new and change orders?
11:24:49  <PublicServer> <Nickman> don't want to :)
11:25:06  <PublicServer> <HD1Eagle> build temp change orders remove rebuild change orders?
11:25:17  <PublicServer> <Nickman> k
11:25:22  <PublicServer> <hylje> remove orders rebuild re-add orders
11:25:25  <PublicServer> <hylje> no need for temp
11:25:45  <PublicServer> <hylje> mm a finnish loco
11:26:16  <PublicServer> <Nickman> noice conerns :(
11:26:21  <PublicServer> <hylje> noooo
11:26:45  <PublicServer> <Nickman> can't build it
11:26:46  <PublicServer> <hylje> walk it further
11:26:55  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I've got one ;)
11:27:22  <PublicServer> <Nickman> still to close
11:27:57  <PublicServer> *** zakjan joined the game
11:28:10  <^Spike^> !password
11:28:11  <PublicServer> ^Spike^: supers
11:28:18  <PublicServer> *** ^Sp1ke^ joined the game
11:28:27  <PublicServer> <Nickman> to spread out...
11:29:33  <PublicServer> <Nickman> k, one done :)
11:29:45  <HDIEagle> i can't do it
11:29:47  <HDIEagle> i'm asleep :(
11:29:49  <HDIEagle> good night
11:29:53  <PublicServer> <hylje> nini
11:29:58  <PublicServer> *** HD1Eagle has left the game (leaving)
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11:31:45  <PublicServer> <Nickman> done :)
11:38:00  <PublicServer> <hylje> MONORAIL
11:38:13  <PublicServer> <Nickman> monorail!
11:38:40  <PublicServer> <hylje> oh it's third rail instead
11:39:02  <PublicServer> <zakjan> bad grf?
11:39:07  <PublicServer> <hylje> no
11:39:19  <PublicServer> <hylje> its a shame grfs arent made for ottd
11:39:31  <PublicServer> <hylje> because ottd would best support different rail types itself
11:39:45  <PublicServer> <hylje> we could have 3rd rail AND overhead on the same tracks
11:39:50  <PublicServer> <Nickman> never used third rail before :)
11:39:53  <PublicServer> <hylje> and have the third rail drawn right
11:40:06  <PublicServer> *** ^Sp1ke^ has joined company #1
11:40:07  <PublicServer> <Nickman> OTTD rulez ;)
11:42:09  <PublicServer> *** hylje has left the game (leaving)
11:46:46  <PublicServer> <Nickman> lets do a chais plan this time!:D
11:46:50  <PublicServer> <Nickman> chaos
11:49:34  <PublicServer> <Nickman> 11 planes are in the depot?
11:49:46  <PublicServer> <Nickman> at chonnville
11:49:53  <PublicServer> <Nickman> new ones?
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12:34:11  <Graschnikov> !password
12:34:11  <PublicServer> Graschnikov: emboss
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12:48:38  <Farden> !playercount
12:48:38  <PublicServer> Farden: Number of players: 3
12:48:41  <Farden> !password
12:48:41  <PublicServer> Farden: armpit
12:48:57  <PublicServer> *** Farden joined the game
12:49:27  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> farden with you plan it is pax/cargo on the same line?
12:49:32  <PublicServer> <Farden> indeed
12:49:45  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> and TL?
12:49:49  <PublicServer> <Farden> 4
12:49:56  <PublicServer> <Farden> it's on the plan^^
12:50:03  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> TL? :)
12:50:08  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> oh there
12:50:10  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> damn hidden :)
12:50:13  <PublicServer> <Farden> ^^
12:50:20  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> i was looking near all the other text :)
12:52:00  <PublicServer> <Farden> do you think you'll doing a plan?
12:52:09  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> nah not this time :)
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12:54:40  <zakjan> has anyone final save from previous game?
12:54:50  <^Spike^> prob on the server not archived yet :)
12:54:52  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I have one
12:55:05  <Nickman87> I have a copy of my latest save
12:55:15  <Nickman87> just in case :)
12:55:23  <zakjan> can you upload it?
12:55:30  <Nickman87> sure
12:55:44  <Nickman87> where you want it? or rapidshare ok?
12:55:49  <zakjan> ok
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12:56:50  <Nickman87> http://rapidshare.com/files/251828715/PSG148.sav
12:56:51  <Webster> Title: RapidShare: 1-CLICK Web hosting - Easy Filehosting (at rapidshare.com)
12:56:55  <Nickman87> hf :)
12:56:56  <zakjan> thanks
12:58:02  <PublicServer> *** zakjan has left the game (leaving)
12:58:21  <PublicServer> <Nickman> I have to go, bye all!
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12:58:36  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
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13:34:15  <Mark> !password
13:34:15  <PublicServer> Mark: inlets
13:34:38  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
13:34:39  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
13:35:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> 'lo
13:35:03  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> no mark plan yet? :)
13:35:45  <PublicServer> <Mark> i'd make something with SRNWs transfering to terminals
13:35:55  <PublicServer> <Mark> hm nice, booth managed to mispell his own name
13:36:04  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> i noticed that too :)
13:36:11  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> just didn't want to comment on it :D
13:37:01  <Mark> !setdef
13:37:01  <PublicServer> *** Mark has disabled wait_for_pbs_path, wait_twoway_signal, wait_oneway_signal, enabled no_servicing_if_no_breakdowns and set path_backoff_interval to 1
13:39:27  <PublicServer> <Mark> wtf, where to use TL sorters on Booth's plan?
13:39:43  <PublicServer> <^Sp1ke^> somewhere along the lines? :)
13:39:50  <PublicServer> <Mark> only at the stations i guess
13:40:05  <PublicServer> <Mark> though the regualar seperated drop and pickup would also take care of that
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13:43:03  <PublicServer> <Mark> 76 farms and only 8 forests
13:43:10  <PublicServer> <Mark> \
13:43:36  <zakjan> prospect some ;) :D
13:44:00  <PublicServer> <Mark> there's not too much land above snowline
13:44:06  <PublicServer> <Mark> which is needed for forests
13:44:25  <PublicServer> <Mark> anyway im off swimming
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14:20:07  <[com]buster> !password
14:20:07  <PublicServer> [com]buster: crofts
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14:26:31  <satyap1> !password
14:26:31  <PublicServer> satyap1: crofts
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14:31:29  <PublicServer> <Mark> 'lo agait
14:31:36  <PublicServer> <Combuster> hi Mark
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14:36:07  <Graschnikov> !password
14:36:07  <PublicServer> Graschnikov: exodus
14:36:16  <J_Darnley> !help
14:36:16  <PublicServer> J_Darnley: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands
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14:49:03  <Farden> !playercount
14:49:03  <PublicServer> Farden: Number of players: 4
14:49:07  <Farden> !password
14:49:07  <PublicServer> Farden: grisly
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14:51:51  <PublicServer> <Combuster> Second time I made two plans :/
14:52:05  <mensi> !password
14:52:05  <PublicServer> mensi: grisly
14:52:27  <mensi> !password
14:52:27  <PublicServer> mensi: grisly
14:52:34  <PublicServer> <Mark> :P
14:52:42  <PublicServer> *** mensi joined the game
14:52:56  <mensi> wtf?
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14:53:08  <mensi> long island? ;)
14:53:32  <PublicServer> <Combuster> actually, three large islands
14:54:20  <mensi> uh large TF in a plan of mark? I like it ;)
14:54:36  <PublicServer> <Combuster> Which is exactly why I made a 2nd plan
14:54:40  <PublicServer> <Farden> what's the interest of having mountains if we're killin em?
14:54:41  <PublicServer> <Mark> the ML will eat the entire ocean :P
14:55:28  <mensi> I like the networks here, not the landscape ;)
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15:07:48  <hylje> !password
15:07:48  <PublicServer> hylje: beacon
15:07:55  <hylje> too bad it's not bacon
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15:38:35  <PublicServer> <Combuster> Mark: You reckon we can commence voting?
15:38:44  <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah
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15:43:40  <[com]buster> @stage Planning+Voting
15:43:40  *** Webster changes topic to "Welcome to #openttdcoop, the Cooperative OpenTTD | PSG #149 (r16621) | STAGE: Planning+Voting | www.openttdcoop.org | Use !help for IRC-commands | Cargo Destinations at #openttdcoop.dev | Client record: 24 | Screenshots: http://mz.openttdcoop.org/img/ | Get a userpage if you don't have one yet"
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15:59:41  <Kangoo> !password
15:59:41  <PublicServer> Kangoo: basest
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16:49:43  <seandasheep> !players
16:49:44  <PublicServer> seandasheep: Client 74 (Orange) is Combuster, in company 1 (OpenTTD Coop  A/S)
16:49:44  <PublicServer> seandasheep: Client 93 (Orange) is ^Sp1ke^, in company 1 (OpenTTD Coop  A/S)
16:49:44  <PublicServer> seandasheep: Client 101 is J_Darnley, a spectator
16:49:44  <PublicServer> seandasheep: Client 104 (Orange) is Kangoo, in company 1 (OpenTTD Coop  A/S)
16:49:50  <seandasheep> !password
16:49:50  <PublicServer> seandasheep: jelled
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17:55:09  <hylje> so simply turning the 2-dimensional map ottd uses to 3-dimensional without any magic involved would turn the 10M of a 1024x1024 into 100M (given a standard height variation of 10)
17:57:27  <Farden> no, it could be optimised
17:57:37  <hylje> of course
17:57:39  <hylje> that's the worst case
17:57:50  <Farden> if it's built everywhere
17:57:52  <Farden> yes
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17:59:04  <hylje> introducing size-optimizing magic should be adverse to performance optimization
18:00:47  <Farden> I think making ottd usable in a third dimension would require a complete revamp of the internal tile management system
18:00:55  <PublicServer> *** ^Sp1ke^ has left the game (leaving)
18:01:11  <Farden> I will take a look on how it works now, but I don't expect miracles^^
18:01:11  <hylje> that's a given
18:01:18  <hylje> i've been glancing at it
18:02:15  <hylje> ideally it'd go like this: 1) turn the current map into a more transparent object 2) introduce a 3D map that conforms to the same specification plus some
18:04:04  <Farden> well, if you want to throw yourself into that
18:04:09  <Farden> I think I can give you a hand^^
18:04:32  <hylje> i've been kind of blocked at pondering what parts of ottd actually use the map
18:05:55  <Farden> isn't ottd supposed to be object oriented?
18:06:00  <Farden> or is it only partialy?
18:06:28  <hylje> the c++ port is pretty recent
18:06:43  <hylje> there's no Map object
18:07:38  <Farden> I see
18:07:42  <Farden> so we would have to redo that first
18:07:48  <Farden> before trying anything
18:11:26  <hylje> so task 1: introduce Map2D which contains *everything* one does with the map with a high-level interface
18:11:48  <hylje> task1.1: go through all uses of map and take notes
18:12:15  <hylje> task1.2: implement high level map operations in Map2D and migrate map usage to them
18:12:24  <Farden> task 0 : understand how the current system work and get all data from what our OO version must contain^^
18:12:44  <hylje> all data is in map_type.h
18:13:03  <hylje> and tha actual allocation happens in map.cpp
18:13:08  <Farden> we should also create a "tile" object
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18:17:59  <Farden> I see it that way
18:18:42  <Farden> a map object, that contains a 2 dimension array of tiles objects + some other informations and manipuation procedures
18:18:42  <Farden> and each tile would first represent a normal 2D tile
18:19:04  <Farden> and then, with the 3D version, each tile would contain all informations about the ground, as usual, but also the air and the underground
18:21:19  <Aali> another map array rewrite?
18:21:58  <PublicServer> *** Kangoo has left the game (leaving)
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18:23:02  <Farden> yes, but in order to introduce a third dimension in track construction
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18:27:59  <andy|p> !download win32
18:27:59  <PublicServer> andy|p: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r16621/openttd-trunk-r16621-windows-win32.zip
18:30:50  <andy|p> !password
18:30:51  <PublicServer> andy|p: asylum
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18:42:10  <Aali> Farden: good luck
18:42:16  <Aali> you're going to need it :D
18:42:31  <Farden> I don't plan to do it alone
18:42:39  <Farden> it's hylje's project
18:42:44  <Farden> and I'm giving him a hand
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18:43:05  <Aali> my point still stands :)
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19:05:13  <hylje> no, Farden, the Map object exposes multiple methods that allow working with the map without exposing how the map is implemented
19:05:27  <hylje> Map2D exposes those methods current OpenTTD uses
19:05:38  <Farden> yeah, that's what I mean
19:05:46  <Farden> but inside the map object we should have a tile object
19:05:54  <hylje> tile struct is ok
19:05:59  <Farden> even if it's not visible from the outside
19:06:14  <hylje> we can use the current tile struct as is
19:07:20  <hylje> so we'll not touch the way the heightmap is implemented
19:07:31  <hylje> just move it all to the same place (in .h and .cpp)
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19:09:46  <Farden> I need to take a look at the code
19:09:52  <Farden> let's boot some work VM
19:10:16  <hylje> grepping the source for map_type.h includes should be a good start..
19:10:34  <PublicServer> *** zakjan joined the game
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19:13:04  <hylje> we'd implement a Map2D class in map_func.h, turn the current functions there into methods and update user source, then hunt down map_type.h users and get rid of it
19:13:17  <hylje> all while retaining current functionality as is
19:13:28  <Farden> I see
19:15:11  <hylje> when there are no map_type.h users, we've successfully isolated the map from its implementation
19:15:41  <Farden> it's gonna be hard
19:15:59  <hylje> but a reasonably clear battle plan, yes?
19:16:11  <hylje> we can probably just specify what we want and poke openttd devs to do it for us
19:16:16  <Farden> indeed
19:16:21  <Farden> ^^
19:16:31  <Farden> or... not
19:16:39  <Farden> have you ever tried asking something to the devs?
19:16:50  <hylje> when the query is in the form of a rough patch
19:17:28  <Farden> we'll see
19:19:22  <hylje> mm
19:21:20  <Farden> ok, so map_type.h is used in
19:21:32  <Farden> ai/ai_info.hpp
19:21:42  <Farden> network/core/address.h
19:21:52  <Farden> hu
19:21:54  <Farden> oh, no
19:21:57  <Farden> wrong grep
19:22:29  <Farden> ok, got it this time
19:22:30  <Farden> so
19:22:32  <Farden> settings.cpp
19:22:36  <Farden> industry.h
19:22:38  <Farden> town.h
19:22:43  <Farden> map_func.h
19:22:45  <Farden> airport.h
19:23:18  <hylje> ima refresh my c++ skillz and ponder how would we implement class Map2D in stages
19:23:27  <Farden> ^^
19:23:36  <hylje> ideally we'd change over the map users one by one
19:23:39  <hylje> testing in between
19:23:47  <hylje> and fixing regressions with additional contexgt
19:24:06  <Farden> impossible : we must change everything to use our map type
19:24:12  <Farden> they can't use both at the smae time
19:24:26  <hylje> we can implement an intermediary Map2D that uses the exact same map everything else uses
19:24:35  <Farden> like a middle man?
19:24:36  <Farden> why not
19:24:43  <Farden> but it'll require more work^^
19:24:48  <hylje> remember, Map2D is transparent
19:24:56  <Farden> hu, no, it's opaque
19:25:01  <Farden> transparent is the contrary^^
19:25:18  <hylje> well I figured opaque means you can see its implementation by looking at it
19:25:28  <Farden> no
19:25:38  <Farden> opaque means you use it and don't care how it works inside
19:25:52  <Farden> transparent means you have to understand how it works inside to use it
19:26:01  <hylje> transparent, in contrast, is an abstract implementation which keeps its implementation hidden well and can be used without caring about *which* implementation one uses
19:26:08  <Farden> or at least that's what I was told by my teachers^^
19:26:19  <Farden> but it was in French
19:26:26  <Farden> so, it could have a different interpretation
19:26:37  <Farden> anyway we understand the concept : don't care about what's going on inside
19:27:15  <hylje> for instance when talking about governments a transparent government is one which works without being seen
19:27:55  <Farden> there aren't any functions defined un map_type
19:28:02  <Farden> where are they?
19:28:06  <hylje> map_func
19:28:22  <hylje> map_type is basically the internal implementation of the map; we want all uses of it to be turned into functions
19:28:40  <Farden> ok
19:29:10  <Farden> I don't understand something
19:29:22  <Farden> the struct "tile" is defined in the map_type.h file
19:29:26  <hylje> yes?
19:29:29  <Farden> and there is a tile_type.h file
19:29:41  <Farden> which desn't include map_type.h
19:29:48  <Farden> so doesn't use the tile struct
19:29:51  <Farden> where am I wrong?^^
19:30:22  <hylje> i think tile_* is about subtiles; tiles are further represented by 16x16 subtiles which allow more delicate features
19:31:29  <hylje> i shall investigate by myself as well
19:31:54  <hylje> on a glance I believe we should eat up tile_* into our Map2D implementation
19:31:58  <Farden> ok, so we've got tile_map -> tile_type -> map_func -> map_type
19:32:00  <Farden> easy!
19:32:35  <hylje> the first steps into solving any problem is understanding the problem as well as possible
19:33:05  <Farden> I suggest we create a map of dependencies
19:33:09  <Farden> it could help a lot
19:33:27  <hylje> notes are invaluable in understanding, for our minds can only hold so little at once
19:33:44  <Farden> indeed^^
19:33:52  <hylje> we also have slope_* to be rolled in
19:34:46  <Farden> do you know where we could find a dependency map generator?
19:35:09  <hylje> i would believe any graph (in the CS sense) visualizer would do
19:35:45  <Farden> of course, but I would prefer something capable to generate the graph from the C files
19:36:02  <hylje> in that case i have no honking idea
19:37:02  <hylje> it appears we have to consider whether to expose an additional Tile class that wraps a Tile struct with additional methods to work with that particular tile
19:37:21  <Farden> what make you think that?
19:37:29  <hylje> e.g. GetTileOwner, IsValidTile (from tile_map.h)
19:39:00  <Farden> http://flourish.org/cinclude2dot/
19:39:01  <Webster> Title: C/C++ Dependency Graphing (at flourish.org)
19:39:03  <Farden> i've got something
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19:39:12  <Farden> a little perl script
19:39:42  <hylje> neat
19:42:08  <hylje> yeah, it appears to be pretty natural to provide a Tile object that gives information and allow manipulation of that information
19:42:37  <hylje> regardless of the Tile being a real tile in the heightmap sense or a cube in the 3D map sense
19:43:23  <Farden> indeed
19:43:28  <Farden> that what I was thinking
19:44:01  <hylje> a crucial goal in our work should be our eventual Map3D implementation being a strict superset of Map2D
19:45:46  <Farden> we must at least get a Map2D working
19:45:50  <hylje> yes
19:45:54  <Farden> then, doing map3D will be quite easy
19:46:05  <Farden> the only problems will be the creation of new sorts of tracks
19:46:10  <hylje> so the Tile objects we hand out should be able to be identical whether it is given by Map2D or whatever else (Map3D)
19:46:10  <Farden> aka undergrounds curves
19:46:12  <Farden> and so on
19:46:31  <hylje> our goal is bridges, tunnels contain completely normal tracks
19:46:57  <Farden> and transparency
19:46:59  <Farden> don't forget that
19:47:01  <Farden> we'll need it
19:47:04  <hylje> yes
19:47:10  <hylje> one of the goals, yes
19:47:21  <hylje> because 3D map allows doing away with wormhole bridges and tunnels
19:47:39  <hylje> we can turn bridges and tunnels into completely identical tracks as the ones in landscape
19:48:19  <hylje> because bridges and tunnels would be /part of the landscape/
19:49:04  <Farden> indeed
19:49:16  <^Spike^> !password
19:49:16  <PublicServer> ^Spike^: gorges
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19:50:41  <hylje> i think we should begin from turning tiles into proper objects
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19:50:55  <hylje> and moving everything one could do with tiles into tile_*
19:50:56  *** openttdcoop sets mode: +v Glendening
19:51:13  <Glendening> !password
19:51:13  <PublicServer> Glendening: gorges
19:51:25  <Glendening> long time since i've been on
19:51:38  <hylje> bar any further dependencies I haven't yet realized
19:51:41  <hylje> welcome back
19:52:13  <Glendening> thanks
19:52:43  <hylje> !password
19:52:43  <PublicServer> hylje: gorges
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20:30:37  <Farden> !playercount
20:30:37  <PublicServer> Farden: Number of players: 1
20:31:24  <Suisse[Dodo]`> !player
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20:31:28  <Suisse> !player
20:31:35  <Suisse> !players
20:31:36  <PublicServer> Suisse: Client 114 is hylje, a spectator
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21:42:34  <V453000> !password
21:42:34  <PublicServer> V453000: anting
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21:54:41  <Chris_Booth> !password
21:54:41  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: anting
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21:57:53  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hello all
21:57:57  <PublicServer> <V453000> hi
21:58:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> could i ban combusters second plan ?
21:58:18  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> as i made the map
21:58:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> why not
21:58:25  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and wated it to be cooped
21:58:34  <PublicServer> <V453000> the map is good
21:58:43  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> its going to be hard
21:58:49  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> shame i wont get to play it
21:59:02  <PublicServer> <V453000> I mostly dont play either
21:59:07  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> when i get back i am going to upload my hieght map arichve
21:59:13  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah :D
21:59:16  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and maps archive
21:59:23  <PublicServer> <V453000> could be nice
21:59:27  <@XeryusTC> !password
21:59:27  <PublicServer> XeryusTC: widths
21:59:36  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game
21:59:36  <PublicServer> <V453000> I just made a scenario few days ago
21:59:52  <PublicServer> <V453000> inspired by the bottleneck ...
21:59:53  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> maybe i will make a new server just for map
22:00:07  <PublicServer> <V453000> but needs lots of ballancing so I have to try it out ...
22:00:18  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> bottle necks are fun 1 issue
22:00:25  <PublicServer> <V453000> yeah
22:00:30  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> they are hard to make without people cheating
22:00:34  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> oh, i like mark's plan :P
22:00:45  <PublicServer> <V453000> I played the coop challenge (or how was it called) and that was real fun
22:00:52  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> SRNW would be fun
22:00:55  <PublicServer> <V453000> marks plan is pretty nice
22:01:06  <PublicServer> <V453000> srnw?
22:01:07  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> openttdcsq
22:01:26  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> self regulating network
22:01:29  <PublicServer> <V453000> ah
22:01:50  <PublicServer> <V453000> I have one problem when I play alone ...
22:01:51  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> XTC you like the map?
22:02:13  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> hmm, too hilly imo :P
22:02:22  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> well, for sp that would be,f or coop i dont care :P
22:02:32  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> it's just that there are so many small patches of water :s
22:02:40  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yeah
22:02:43  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> anyhow, im off to the pub
22:02:44  <PublicServer> <V453000> I think it is challenging and thats ok for coop
22:02:44  *** Zorn has quit IRC
22:02:55  <PublicServer> <XeryusTC> for my follow-up date with the girl i dated yesterday too
22:02:56  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> that what happens when you give me GIMP and openttd though
22:03:22  <PublicServer> <V453000> :D
22:03:24  <Farden> !playercount
22:03:24  <PublicServer> Farden: Number of players: 3
22:03:55  <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (connection lost)
22:04:13  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i am off now
22:04:17  <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving)
22:04:18  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
22:04:20  <PublicServer> <V453000> se
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22:34:18  <Mark> !players
22:34:19  <PublicServer> Mark: There are currently no clients connected to the server
22:34:29  <Mark> !password
22:34:29  <PublicServer> Mark: epochs
22:36:03  <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game
22:37:05  <PublicServer> <Mark> was booth drunk?
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23:08:52  <jonde> !password
23:08:52  <PublicServer> jonde: moated
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