Config
Log for #openttdcoop on 4th November 2009:
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00:00:09  <PublicServer> *** Spec has left the game (leaving)
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00:16:11  <Seppel> !password
00:16:11  <PublicServer> Seppel: madams
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00:27:07  <PeterT> !password
00:27:08  <PublicServer> PeterT: burros
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00:30:25  <PeterT> Razaekel (assuming your name is "Raz" in-game), there is absolutely no need to make a station SMALLER when its already been built
00:30:37  <PeterT> it didn't "suck"
00:30:49  <PeterT> it's better than the **** you built
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00:45:34  <Razaekel> oh hohoho
00:45:44  <Razaekel> your station was crap
00:45:54  <Razaekel> by pretty much unanimous consent
00:46:05  <Razaekel> bah
00:46:06  <Razaekel> he ran
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00:46:30  <MattKrass> that was interesting
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01:05:03  <MattKrass> is it ok for a sideline to wriggle all over the place to dodge towns and industries?
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02:42:39  <De_Ghosty> yes
02:43:13  <De_Ghosty> it's always better to be over built then underbuilt
02:43:38  <De_Ghosty> side line doesn't need 100% speed
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05:11:17  <MattKrass> so whats going on guys? or is this too late
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09:35:25  <jondisti> !password
09:35:25  <PublicServer> jondisti: gritty
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09:54:36  <[1]Blue> Heey everybody! Question about BBH's in the wiki: SHOULD THEY BE BALANCED OR NOT???
09:54:54  <[1]Blue> (meaning: every incoming track should be able to choose from either outgoing track)
09:55:16  <PublicServer> *** jondisti has left the game (leaving)
09:56:04  <[1]Blue> I found a page in the wiki saying they DONT have to be balanced because trains can join either track when coming from a SL..On another page it says that BBH's ALWAY should  be bakanced...
09:56:15  <[1]Blue> Anyone can clear this up for me???
10:02:35  <[1]Blue> anyone?
10:04:30  <planetmaker> it's better, if they're balanced
10:07:30  <planetmaker> ^ [1]Blue
10:10:04  <[1]Blue> and balanced means having the choice over every outgoing track, in this context?
10:11:23  <planetmaker> yes
10:11:59  <planetmaker> http://openttdcoop.org/2009/10/05/joining-merging-balancing-chosing/ <-- most comprehensive overview IMO
10:13:51  <[1]Blue> Another question.... If I use balanced BBH's and SML's where SL only joins the outer lane... Does that result in a efficient network?
10:15:19  <[1]Blue> In the following page, BBH's should be balanced: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Line_hierarchy
10:15:58  <[1]Blue> In the following pafe, BBH's shouldn't be balanced: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Guides:Mainline_Junctions
10:16:23  <[1]Blue> those are two wiki pages which are kinda contradicting on the balancing subject...
10:16:44  <planetmaker> SL must always use a balanced join
10:16:47  <[1]Blue> Might be a good idea for someone with some experience to re-write those...
10:17:02  <planetmaker> An unbalanced SLH is worse than an unbalanced BBH
10:17:17  <[1]Blue> So, SL should be able to join every outgoing track on SLH?
10:17:17  <planetmaker> The latter is wrong IMO :-)
10:17:38  <planetmaker> The "shouldn't" is at least outdated and probably never was really correct.
10:17:43  <planetmaker> Despite that it's not always done
10:17:55  <[1]Blue> Ah ok
10:18:01  <planetmaker> But good building requires it to be done ;-)
10:18:17  <planetmaker> you may want to correct the wiki :-)
10:18:40  <planetmaker> we're kinda revising it currently anyway and help certainly is welcome
10:19:29  <[1]Blue> But when I use SML before a SLH, all trains on ML shift (if possible) to the inner lane, which would imply that the SL only has to join the outer most track on ML (with prios)
10:19:43  <[1]Blue> At least, that's what I understand of SML...
10:24:27  <[1]Blue> About the wiki... I don't think I comprehend everything as well as I should to alter the pages ;)
10:31:35  <planetmaker> If you use SML the rules concerning balancing don't apply
10:31:47  <planetmaker> you understand SML correctly then
10:32:35  <planetmaker> If you use SML, making a 'balanced' join prior to a BBH is 'interesting'. You'd need to shift one incoming ML to the left and the other to the right in that case
10:32:50  <planetmaker> But what do you do, if you have a 3ML -> 1ML merge for a 4-way BBH?
10:33:50  <planetmaker> The advantage for SML is to actually be able to skip most balancing issues. Just shift a bit more and you're done in most cases :-P
10:33:57  <[1]Blue> pffff that would still be out of my league... To be honest, I only learned about COOP a few weeks ago and I've been reading the wiki's ever since.
10:34:08  <planetmaker> :-)
10:34:22  <planetmaker> Not the worst thing to do. That's how I started here, too, I guess.
10:34:46  <[1]Blue> I have watched PS games and finished saved games and I'm currently playing my first SP game while trying to use the COOP building concepts
10:35:25  <planetmaker> Don't be afraid to join the PS and start building as well
10:35:42  <[1]Blue> Maybe you wanna help me out a bit by taking a look at my saved game so far and give me some comments about my network?? (A)
10:35:47  <planetmaker> Maybe start with smaller things (if you don't dare the 'big' ones)
10:36:18  <planetmaker> SLHs are a great way to get started. As are station entries or exits. The latter are usually neglected.
10:36:30  <planetmaker> I don't have OpenTTD at work
10:36:40  <[1]Blue> haha, ok...thnx anyway;)
10:37:33  <[1]Blue> got any building tips on where to start when building a HUB? (aside from increasing the space between the ML's)
10:37:34  <[1]Blue> ?
10:38:19  <[1]Blue> Cause I usually get in trouble with CL's and doubling tunnels (I prefer tunnels over bridges due to speed limitations)
10:38:40  <[1]Blue> Most of the time I end up with too little space :(
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11:33:22  <[1]Blue> !password
11:33:22  <PublicServer> [1]Blue: foster
11:33:43  <PublicServer> *** Blue joined the game
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11:46:02  <[1]Blue> !help
11:46:02  <PublicServer> [1]Blue: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands
11:46:21  <[1]Blue> !curve
11:46:21  <PublicServer> [1]Blue: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Max_Curve_Speed
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13:23:14  <Seppel> !password
13:23:14  <PublicServer> Seppel: starry
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14:21:14  <mark_> 'lo
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15:16:16  <pugi> hi :)
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15:23:01  <Webster> Latest update from openttd: Finishing graphics and sound replacements <http://www.openttd.org/en/news/107>
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16:36:08  <DJNekkid> !password
16:36:08  <PublicServer> DJNekkid: facile
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16:38:24  <DJNekkid> anyone wanna join in? :)
16:40:25  <pugi> no, got to go :/
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17:34:29  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
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17:39:11  <PublicServer> <Mark> 'lo
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17:39:48  <damalix> !password
17:39:48  <PublicServer> damalix: weaned
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17:43:51  <PublicServer> <Damalix> Hello
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17:50:05  <Alendo> !password
17:50:06  <PublicServer> Alendo: weaned
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17:54:27  <Liam> !password
17:54:27  <PublicServer> Liam: beaver
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18:49:13  <Mark> damalix: you have a pm :P
18:49:27  <planetmaker> nope. I'm not available :-P
18:49:36  <damalix> ^^ a nice one :)
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18:49:51  <Mark> so what's keeping you up? :P
18:50:05  <^Spike^> i guess the fear for the big guys.. :)
18:50:10  <Mark> hehe
19:10:53  <PublicServer> *** DJ Nekkid has left the game (connection lost)
19:10:54  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
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19:32:49  <Leward> Hi
19:35:21  * Leward is alone :
19:35:23  <Leward> :
19:38:35  <hylje> :<
19:38:43  <hylje> hello
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19:40:45  <KenjiE20> because 15secs is FOREVER
19:41:30  <KenjiE20> wait wrong timestamp, my point still stands though :P
19:41:33  <Leward> I'm new here and I would enjoy to play on the public server, but I don't find the good client version :/
19:41:41  <KenjiE20> @quickstart
19:41:43  <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Quickstart
19:42:25  <Leward> Thanks :)
19:42:34  <KenjiE20> it's in the topic
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19:42:53  <Leward> You're right ^^
19:43:15  <jondisti> !password
19:43:15  <PublicServer> jondisti: ticked
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19:50:14  <Leward> !dl win32
19:50:14  <PublicServer> Leward: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r17847/openttd-trunk-r17847-windows-win32.zip
20:00:40  <Leward> !password
20:00:40  <PublicServer> Leward: barter
20:00:51  <PublicServer> *** Player joined the game
20:00:52  <Webster> Player, please change your in game nick
20:01:40  <planetmaker> !info
20:01:41  <PublicServer> planetmaker: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Town Scarers Inc.'  Year Founded: 1970  Money: 467219484  Loan: 0  Value: 467434292  (T:18, R:6, P:3, S:0) unprotected
20:03:37  <PublicServer> *** Player has left the game (leaving)
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20:07:15  <Leward> !password
20:07:15  <PublicServer> Leward: furies
20:07:39  <PublicServer> *** Leward joined the game
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20:18:06  <damalix> !players
20:18:07  <PublicServer> damalix: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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20:27:41  <csuke> !password
20:27:41  <PublicServer> csuke: taxing
20:27:59  <PublicServer> *** csuke joined the game
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20:31:17  <DJ_Nekkid> !playerinfo
20:31:21  <DJ_Nekkid> !players
20:31:22  <PublicServer> DJ_Nekkid: There are currently no clients connected to the server
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20:33:36  <Bibby> !password
20:33:36  <PublicServer> Bibby: taxing
20:33:51  <PublicServer> *** Bibby joined the game
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20:50:19  <Seppel> !password
20:50:19  <PublicServer> Seppel: spayed
20:50:41  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
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20:58:58  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
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21:07:43  <Bibby> !password
21:07:43  <PublicServer> Bibby: wadded
21:07:57  <PublicServer> *** Bibby joined the game
21:08:11  <Bibby> !help
21:08:11  <PublicServer> Bibby: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/IRC_Commands
21:09:48  <Bibby> !curve
21:09:48  <PublicServer> Bibby: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/Max_Curve_Speed
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21:42:38  <damalix> !players
21:42:39  <PublicServer> damalix: Client 896 is Bibby, a spectator
21:42:39  <PublicServer> damalix: Client 892 (Orange) is csuke, in company 1 (Town Scarers Inc.)
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21:46:15  <damalix> !password
21:46:15  <PublicServer> damalix: genera
21:46:41  <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (enough players)
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21:56:24  <PublicServer> <Damalix> G'night
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21:56:35  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
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21:57:30  <highpinger> !password
21:57:30  <PublicServer> highpinger: freest
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22:21:03  <Chris_Booth> !password
22:21:03  <PublicServer> Chris_Booth: hooped
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22:26:02  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> every time i come in here BBH 02 gets worse
22:26:05  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> why?!
22:26:07  <PublicServer> <Spike> chris check !work?
22:26:23  <PublicServer> <Spike> i get a feeling that will be a fail prio
22:26:35  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> it would have been
22:26:39  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> now it wont
22:26:44  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i put the wrong signal in
22:26:44  <PublicServer> <Spike> oh wait other wat around
22:26:49  <PublicServer> <Spike> i hate ppl using 2 ways
22:27:15  <PublicServer> <Spike> and well the part before the bridge won't work like this :)
22:27:30  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> it will
22:27:33  <PublicServer> <Spike> cause after the bridge it just is an exit at first :)
22:27:38  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> the part after wont
22:27:58  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> now it will
22:28:10  <PublicServer> <Spike> that one needs to be combo aswell? :)
22:28:13  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> exit signal is fine
22:28:15  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yeah
22:28:24  <PublicServer> <Spike> that is what i meant :)
22:28:47  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i love 2ways sometimes
22:29:19  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> for persignals over bridges
22:29:27  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> say 1 block of tiles
22:29:30  <PublicServer> <Spike> i meant the x
22:29:41  <PublicServer> <Spike> oh.. still 2-ways discussion :)
22:29:46  <PublicServer> <Spike> i was doing the signal check..
22:29:51  <PublicServer> <Spike> i prefer to do bbh01 over bbh02 ;)
22:29:58  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> thanks
22:30:29  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> whats wrong with my 'x' @ !ouch?
22:30:31  <PublicServer> <Spike> but the ouch is really ouch? and can be moved a few tiles ahead?
22:31:17  <PublicServer> <Spike> i usually try to prevent any x's in and way :)
22:31:30  <PublicServer> <Spike> unless it's the sync idea thingie.. :)
22:32:05  <PublicServer> <Spike> oh wait.. you fixed the hub big time...
22:32:08  <PublicServer> <Spike> it's all wrong.. ;)
22:32:11  <PublicServer> <Spike> j/k :)
22:32:47  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> now check out !ouch
22:32:55  <PublicServer> <Spike> *applauds*
22:33:03  <csuke> !password
22:33:03  <PublicServer> csuke: tiffed
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22:33:27  <PublicServer> <Spike> for the rest it all seems ok
22:33:33  <PublicServer> <csuke> bbh02 = big ...
22:33:53  <PublicServer> <csuke> sry, bbh01 lol
22:34:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> BBH01 is big as the bisecting ML is so far apart
22:34:19  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> was the best i could do
22:34:28  <PublicServer> <Spike> it looks good..
22:34:35  <PublicServer> <Spike> it did give you working space :D
22:34:52  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> spike you know me i dont need space
22:34:55  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i make it
22:35:06  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> TF it flat like a city in PZ
22:35:11  <PublicServer> <Spike> xD
22:35:14  <PublicServer> <Spike> i like space...
22:35:18  <PublicServer> <Spike> the more the better..
22:35:27  <csuke> here's a thought...
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22:35:42  <csuke> would it make sense, since all bridges require double track
22:35:45  <PublicServer> <Spike> i remember a ps game where i just completed bombed the station exit... screw worksarounds... all the space there was nooded :D
22:35:54  <PublicServer> <Spike> needed*
22:35:58  <csuke> when building a hub just make it for twice the size and use single bridges?
22:36:28  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> what about synced lines then csuke?
22:36:37  <PublicServer> <csuke> you make them same length?
22:36:46  <PublicServer> <Spike> that's hard
22:36:49  <PublicServer> <csuke> i know
22:36:59  <PublicServer> <csuke> but if you work symmetrically
22:37:10  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> best hub ever is my new roundabout styled hub i built in SP
22:37:14  <PublicServer> <Spike> then you almost go back to the roundabout principle
22:37:15  <PublicServer> <csuke> ( i am talking about freeform landscaping here :) )
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22:37:46  <PublicServer> <csuke> there's nothing wrong with roundabouts ...
22:37:52  <PublicServer> <Spike> that is the one of the few ways to create a symetrical hubs
22:38:01  <PublicServer> <csuke> as long as no merge before split ;)
22:38:22  <PublicServer> <Spike> it takes lots of space
22:38:28  <PublicServer> <Spike> you rarely get that on PS games..
22:38:39  <PublicServer> <csuke> bbh01 is lot of space
22:38:50  <PublicServer> <Spike> but low TF :)
22:39:08  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> check !roundabout
22:39:14  <PublicServer> <Spike> on desert climate you get lots of space.. prob why i like those the most
22:39:14  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i built a working version of that
22:39:22  <Bibby> !password
22:39:23  <PublicServer> Bibby: depict
22:39:42  <PublicServer> <csuke> does it work?
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22:39:48  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yes
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22:40:27  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i used tunnels @ the egdes of the roundabout
22:40:28  <PublicServer> <Spike> i'm off to bed..
22:40:31  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> to keep the shape
22:40:33  <PublicServer> <Spike> tomorrow wake up early again...
22:40:38  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> but remove the merges
22:40:43  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> nn spike
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22:40:48  <^Spike^> cya
22:41:06  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> most of BBH 01 (the part i built) is small
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22:46:15  <csuke> Chris_Booth
22:46:20  <csuke> see !test
22:48:12  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> will get desyncs
22:48:20  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> at all the corners
22:48:33  <PublicServer> <csuke> how come?
22:48:57  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> check my lines below
22:49:08  <PublicServer> <csuke> is there anyway to avoid it when changing direction?
22:49:17  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> nope
22:51:31  <PublicServer> <csuke> see !same length
22:51:50  <PublicServer> <csuke> expand so it doesn't slow down then apply to direction changes
22:52:22  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> then you will take up the whole map with 1 4 way BBH
22:52:29  <PublicServer> <csuke> :)
22:52:42  <PublicServer> <csuke> we don't have to apply it to all curves though
22:52:49  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> ooh town drop is wrong
22:52:55  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> should be a terminus
22:53:26  <PublicServer> <csuke> just once per permanent direction change
22:53:46  <PublicServer> <csuke> i'll see if i can get a concept built in single player tomorrow
22:53:51  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> we could just wait for the signals on bridges / tunnels
22:53:58  <PublicServer> <csuke> lol
22:54:01  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> then we will only need 1 bridge
22:54:02  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> or tunnel
22:54:05  <PublicServer> <csuke> how long till it's coming?
22:54:13  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> stabel 0.9
22:54:18  <PublicServer> <csuke> damn
22:54:21  <PublicServer> <csuke> loooong time
22:54:23  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> so soon in nightly
22:54:27  <PublicServer> <csuke> rly?
22:54:34  <PublicServer> <csuke> we only on 0.7.3
22:54:47  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> yeah expect it when 0.8 arrives
22:54:52  <PublicServer> <csuke> cool
22:55:01  <PublicServer> <csuke> alright, im gonna get some sleep
22:55:08  <PublicServer> <csuke> don't stay up too late! lol
22:55:17  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> same i have to up @ 9am
22:55:24  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and its 11 here
22:55:25  <PublicServer> <csuke> me @ 6
22:55:31  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and to be in uni @ 9
22:55:36  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> i need to up @ 8
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22:55:44  <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> and i dont do mornings
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22:55:54  <PublicServer> *** Game paused (not enough players)
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23:25:17  <PublicServer> Saving game...
23:25:18  <PublicServer> Game saved
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23:27:46  <jondisti> !password
23:27:46  <PublicServer> jondisti: squall
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