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00:36:53 *** Firartix has quit IRC 01:33:28 *** pugi has quit IRC 01:33:54 *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop 03:50:41 *** pugi has quit IRC 04:13:25 *** Raptor_a22 has joined #openttdcoop 04:15:15 *** Raptor_a22 has quit IRC 06:04:23 *** roboboy has joined #openttdcoop 07:27:20 *** Mucht has quit IRC 07:29:12 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttdcoop 07:29:51 *** Firartix has joined #openttdcoop 07:47:25 *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop 08:02:48 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttdcoop 08:20:43 *** Firartix has quit IRC 08:58:23 *** DayDreamer has quit IRC 09:21:57 *** nicfer has joined #openttdcoop 09:22:03 <nicfer> hi 09:22:22 <nicfer> what version of japan buildings set is using the welcome server? 09:30:19 <planetmaker> try to connect and get it from online content 09:30:52 <planetmaker> or visit the server's website... http://www.openttdcoop.org/index.php?page=servers&s=stable 09:31:17 <planetmaker> obviously 2AD96BDB6D1B696C62987AC20F132E9E 10:16:29 *** theholyduck has quit IRC 10:18:19 *** cornjuliox has joined #openttdcoop 10:19:10 *** Tray has joined #openttdcoop 10:20:15 *** Tray|2 has joined #openttdcoop 10:26:18 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 10:27:20 *** Tray has quit IRC 10:29:10 *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop 10:48:21 <nicfer> that grf seems to not be in bananas 10:49:18 <nicfer> and neither on grfcrawler 11:03:14 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop 11:03:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ODM 11:09:30 *** bassals has joined #openttdcoop 11:16:59 *** pugi__ has joined #openttdcoop 11:18:08 *** pugi has quit IRC 11:32:34 <planetmaker> nicfer, try !grf 11:32:35 <planetmaker> !grf 11:32:35 <PublicServer> planetmaker: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF (Version 8.0) 11:33:35 <V453000> something not on bananas on stable? :o lets have a look 11:34:15 <V453000> hm yeah that version is probably grf pack only 11:48:06 <V453000> I do not think it is worth it to use in particular japanese buildings as something grf pack only ... but I would say occasional use of some pack grfs is not bad, it at least makes people look at our webpage instead of just using that welcome server end of our community. But I think it should be done with some more ... "worthy" newGRFs like train sets (DB/US) or something else that shows substantial difference, while the japanese buildings a 11:48:10 <V453000> ^ Sylf 11:48:30 <V453000> I guess it wasnt intentional but still :) 11:50:26 <planetmaker> well. There's imho no reason to use the grfpack on stable 11:50:34 <planetmaker> the ps is something different, but still 11:51:10 <V453000> that is why I say occassionally 11:51:13 <planetmaker> I see meanwhile little motivation to support that grfpack just for the sake of a few deprecated newgrfs 11:54:03 <V453000> because otherwise there would be some good newGRFs "missing" ? 11:54:28 <planetmaker> that's the deliberate choice of those authors 11:54:37 <planetmaker> I can't be arsed to support their stupidity 11:54:49 <planetmaker> or vanity 11:55:23 <planetmaker> i.e.: if they don't care, I don't care either 11:55:28 <V453000> whatever you think about mb (and I agree), the DB set is still one of the few best newGRFs to play in a stable-like gameplay enrvironment 11:55:33 <V453000> not to mention the PS 11:56:47 <V453000> and my original idea of saying why the pack newGRFs on stable when used occasionally arent that bad idea was because it could make a few more people from stable interested in our pages, wiki and what not, which is always good 11:56:50 <planetmaker> and one newgrf is worth this whole support overhead it causes? 11:57:13 <V453000> is there just one? 11:57:48 <planetmaker> what else is that good that it's "needed"? 11:57:53 <V453000> it is the most notable one so I give example on that, but other newGRFs are interesting as well 11:58:06 <planetmaker> such as? 11:58:07 <V453000> north american stuff as roads and cities are also great 11:58:27 <V453000> or even the arctic stolen trees 11:59:44 <planetmaker> all what you mention is deliberate choice of the authors to NOT support it 12:00:01 <planetmaker> thus falls all in the category "can't be arsed to support it either" ;-) 12:00:09 <V453000> I dont talk about authors, I talk about why we want to use it 12:00:16 <V453000> I dont see authors related to this 12:00:29 <planetmaker> They don't want to support openttd 12:00:44 <planetmaker> why should I care then? 12:00:48 <planetmaker> they don't want people to play with their newgrfs (easily) 12:01:02 <V453000> so ... we wont? 12:02:12 <planetmaker> indeed I won't be made to jump when *someone* says 'jump' but refuses to cooperate at all. Yes 12:02:40 <V453000> not even if their product is desirable? 12:02:47 <planetmaker> not even then 12:02:51 <V453000> you kinda get a cookie for the jump 12:03:03 <planetmaker> yes. Panem et circenses 12:03:16 <planetmaker> that's how you keep the plebs quiet ;-) 12:03:22 <V453000> cant say I understand that 12:04:07 <planetmaker> If someone doesn't want to support the game - why should I support them by giving them publicity? 12:04:32 <V453000> because I like their product and want to use it? 12:04:38 <planetmaker> I'm not desperate enough to do what others want me to do just in order to get *some* newgrfs 12:04:55 <planetmaker> V453000, that's what I mean with "panem et circenses" ;-) 12:05:04 <planetmaker> it obviously works very well for you :-P 12:05:18 <V453000> saying something I dont understand doesnt make your point any stronger 12:06:08 *** roboboy has quit IRC 12:06:46 <planetmaker> you thus support anti-openttd resentiments and sabotage the methods which make using it easy, V453000 12:07:04 <planetmaker> I don't want to sabotage proper methods which help players this way 12:07:44 <V453000> sabotage? :D 12:08:06 <planetmaker> those grf authors want it complicated 12:08:11 <planetmaker> I want the game easy to use 12:08:24 <planetmaker> Thus I don't support those who deliberately make it complicated 12:08:33 <planetmaker> (i.e. I don't support those newgrfs) 12:08:57 <V453000> yes because you just hate mb so much that you dont care about any gain you could get from it 12:09:05 <planetmaker> Oh, no, I do not hate him 12:09:09 <planetmaker> Not at all 12:09:38 <V453000> then at least his stance in these things :) 12:09:59 <planetmaker> Yes, it's a NewGRF which thus must not be played on servers 12:10:06 <planetmaker> what people do on their private game - I don#t care 12:11:04 <V453000> and I think it is a newgrf which is so good that it is worth it 12:11:36 <planetmaker> No NewGRF is good enough to be used without being banana-fied on other than test servers ;-) 12:11:55 <planetmaker> which is our dev server only ;-) 12:11:57 <V453000> for you perhaps 12:12:28 <planetmaker> well. I'll leave all support requests to you further on :-) Good choice for me then :-) 12:12:41 <V453000> I wonder what that takes 12:12:42 <planetmaker> But I expect you to explain all those dorks where to put stuff, too 12:12:53 <planetmaker> hours 12:12:59 <planetmaker> and patience 12:13:32 <V453000> you know how much of these two things it takes to make a good train set, dont you :) 12:14:50 <V453000> and about how many good train sets we actually have in total 12:15:03 <V453000> 2? 3? 4? 12:19:42 <Ammler> planetmaker: the grfpack is a "good" dummy check 12:20:27 <Ammler> it should not be used on ps, but ps should always have at least one from there :-) 12:20:39 <Ammler> s/ps/stable/ 12:20:43 <V453000> ^ my original point 12:21:05 <V453000> but when you -occasionally- use it on stable you make some people take that dummy check too :p 12:21:06 <Ammler> I guess, it is give with the station grfs 12:23:00 <Ammler> V453000: well, there it is a test for the scenario creator not to include it 12:23:24 <V453000> what do you mean? 12:23:51 <Ammler> the scenario author fails, if he add a grfpack grf 12:23:57 *** roboboy has joined #openttdcoop 12:24:40 <Ammler> so the support should be to tell the author to remove the grf, rather to explain how to download the pack to a user 12:24:55 <V453000> the latter is better :) 12:25:06 <Ammler> easier for the author :-P 12:25:08 <V453000> makes more people interested in the "real" openttdcoop 12:25:16 <Ammler> worse for the support 12:25:51 <V453000> more people-> better? :) 12:25:53 <hylje> so are we finally phasing out proprietary grf 12:25:56 <Ammler> @wiki quickstart/stable 12:25:57 <Webster> Ammler: "Quickstart/Stable" (Redirect from "Quickstart/stable"): 12:25:58 <Webster> Ammler: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart/Stable 12:25:59 <V453000> isnt that what we all want? 12:26:00 <Webster> Ammler: Welcome to the Quickstart for the Stable competition server. 12:26:39 <Ammler> V453000: the wiki page does not explain how to get the pack 12:26:56 <V453000> true, that one doesnt 12:27:05 <V453000> -> more dummy test? :D 12:27:11 <Ammler> it was once decided not to use the pack there, but as you said, it can happen occasionally :-) 12:27:34 <V453000> yes I dont intend to break that decision, that still stands 12:27:42 <V453000> but once in a while a dummy test as you call it isnt a bad thing :P 12:28:00 <Ammler> the question is just, how to react, if someone complains about... 12:28:01 * Mazur can be a dummy, sometimes. 12:28:06 <Mazur> Test me! 12:28:12 <Ammler> removing the grf is more work for use but less support 12:28:19 <Ammler> us* 12:28:49 <Ammler> hmm, some grfs can't be replaced without issues, though 12:29:21 <V453000> depends how you put it. If he "complains" then there is probably no hope in them and I dont care about them. If he "asks" then they are the people we want to take attention to our public server, wiki etc 12:29:56 <V453000> sure, I dont even consider replacing newgrfs. The author should be able to know which one is and which one isnt in the pack and make such map from the very start 12:30:02 <Ammler> well, he complained here, where the pack is required, so pointing to the pack is fine 12:31:05 <Ammler> we could remove the pack from the stable server so such games wouldn't load 12:31:43 <V453000> no need I think 12:32:15 <Ammler> hylje: the issue is that those grfs are not just proprietary some are simply unsupported 12:32:32 *** pugi__ is now known as pugi 12:59:55 *** Djarshi has joined #openttdcoop 13:08:38 <planetmaker> <Ammler> we could remove the pack from the stable server so such games wouldn't load <-- maybe an idea ;-) 13:09:18 *** roboboy has quit IRC 13:19:49 <Ammler> planetmaker: it would basically require to add config --personal-dir, iirc 13:20:17 <Ammler> so ~/.openttd wouldn't be respected anymore 13:20:28 <Ammler> would not hurt as we have symlinked banans dir anyway 13:20:57 <Ammler> hmm, or can personl-dir be disabled? 13:21:54 <Ammler> --without-personal-dir 13:23:02 <V453000> why would you remove it when we barely ever use it there anyway? 13:23:17 <V453000> it is nice to have it "in case" 13:23:18 <Ammler> so it doesn't happen accidentially 13:23:41 <V453000> I believe Sylf will be more careful next time 13:23:51 <Ammler> :-) 13:24:09 <Ammler> the question is, why would you ever want a non-bananas grf there 13:24:30 <V453000> as I said, to have a nice game and for people to be able to participate they should visit our website 13:24:35 <V453000> just to force them do that once 13:24:42 <V453000> if you do it once in 3 months it wont hurt anyone 13:25:52 <V453000> if gets a bit boring to have just the few train sets cycling around for a hugely long time so it is nice to have a little exception once in a while 13:26:01 <Mazur> Especially if you make a note and link on the !help page. 13:26:17 <V453000> I bet people on stable will only be happy about those seldom treats 13:27:17 <Ammler> but it should be somehow noted, if grfpack is needed 13:27:25 <Ammler> also if it is just to help support 13:29:38 <Ammler> V453000: also bad is, if it uses newgrf, which are as newer version available on bananas 13:30:00 <V453000> are any such newGRFs in the pack? 13:30:14 <Ammler> yes, of course 13:30:22 <V453000> the only thing I can think of might be 2cc set 1.0.1 but I guess that is on bananas as well 13:30:24 <Ammler> isn't this one also one? 13:30:44 <V453000> I think 1.0.1 is hidden on-demand-only but it is on bananas 13:31:01 <Ammler> Japanese Buildings 2.0 118046 times 52453400 GPL v3 13:31:10 <V453000> ah right 13:31:26 <V453000> yeah, exact case 13:31:31 <V453000> but again, this was surely only accident 13:31:49 <Ammler> maybe time for 8.1 :-) 13:31:55 <V453000> but I believe there could be a reason to use that town set, they make a bit different buildings 13:32:07 <Mazur> Have I missed the reason why updated newGRFs an't replace the ones in the pack? 13:32:09 <V453000> even the JapSet Buildings or how is that called is nice 13:32:26 <V453000> Mazur: some old newGRFs can still be useful if they arent on bananas 13:32:31 <V453000> even if there are newer versions of them 13:32:41 <Mazur> I dig it. 13:32:46 <Ammler> Mazur: those are in most cases not compatible 13:34:24 <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart/Stable good enough? last line 13:35:17 <Ammler> yes, fine, I meant to make notes about current games, if they use non-bananas grfs 13:35:57 <Ammler> and specially be sure, it happens only say once a month or so 13:35:57 <V453000> on the PS? 13:36:03 <Ammler> no 13:36:16 <V453000> stable games havent used a non-banas newgrf for months 13:36:29 <Ammler> this whole talk is about stable, isn't? 13:36:29 <V453000> ever since we tested the HEQS for andy which is ... a long time ago 13:36:33 <V453000> it sure is 13:36:48 <Ammler> this jap building issue is on stable, right? 13:36:56 <V453000> yes 13:37:13 <Ammler> so why do you accidentially switch topic to ps? :-P 13:37:26 <Ammler> you confuse me :'-( 13:37:36 <V453000> I confused myself too now :D 13:37:54 <Ammler> ps should always use grfpack newgrfs 13:38:00 <V453000> yes 13:38:06 <Ammler> e.g. all station grfs 13:44:36 <planetmaker> Ammler, not sure we can remove more from the grfpack 13:44:41 <planetmaker> but might be worth a look 13:46:07 <Ammler> well, at least move to obsolete 13:48:55 <cornjuliox> !players 13:48:58 <PublicServer> cornjuliox: There are currently no clients connected to the server 14:25:23 *** bassals has quit IRC 14:39:55 *** bassals has joined #openttdcoop 15:02:13 *** Tray|2 has quit IRC 15:06:49 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 15:06:50 <PublicServer> *** bassals joined the game 15:12:22 *** TWerkhoven[l] has joined #openttdcoop 15:20:44 *** pugi has quit IRC 15:30:11 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttdcoop 15:30:49 *** DayDreamer has left #openttdcoop 15:40:52 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttdcoop 15:44:49 *** Firestar has joined #openttdcoop 15:44:51 <Firestar> hi 15:44:58 <Mazur> lo 15:45:08 <Firestar> hows going? 16:20:47 *** Maraxus has joined #openttdcoop 16:23:01 <PublicServer> *** bassals has left the game (leaving) 16:26:59 <Firestar> !players 16:27:01 <PublicServer> Firestar: There are currently no clients connected to the server 16:27:03 *** TWerkhoven[l] has quit IRC 16:28:52 *** Firestar has quit IRC 16:43:08 *** TWerkhoven[l] has joined #openttdcoop 16:44:22 <V453000> !dl win64 16:44:22 <PublicServer> V453000: http://binaries.openttd.org/nightlies/trunk/r23820/openttd-trunk-r23820-windows-win64.zip 16:45:00 *** Firestar has joined #openttdcoop 16:45:04 <V453000> !password 16:45:04 <PublicServer> V453000: arenas 16:45:22 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 16:45:24 <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game 16:45:30 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 16:45:30 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 16:45:30 <PublicServer> *** Firestar joined the game 16:45:34 <Firestar> hi 16:45:34 <PublicServer> <V453000> hi 16:45:48 <PublicServer> <Firestar> hows goin? 16:46:36 <PublicServer> <Firestar> on stable meechs transport is gone bankrupt 16:46:46 <PublicServer> <V453000> not much I can do with that 16:46:54 <PublicServer> <Firestar> i know 16:54:49 <Maraxus> !password 16:54:49 <PublicServer> Maraxus: pimply 16:55:00 <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game 16:56:23 *** bassals has quit IRC 16:57:56 <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving) 16:58:09 <PublicServer> <Firestar> why are at DROP WEST and DROP EAST passengers waiting? 16:58:39 <PublicServer> <V453000> because some careless person forgot to put unload and leave empty for drop order 16:58:45 <PublicServer> <V453000> for which people should be executed 16:59:01 <PublicServer> <Firestar> well i never forget bout this 17:14:02 <PublicServer> *** Firestar has left the game (leaving) 17:14:02 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 17:17:27 *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop 17:30:13 *** theholyduck has joined #openttdcoop 17:31:57 *** Firestar has quit IRC 18:08:27 *** Firestar has joined #openttdcoop 18:08:56 <Firestar> going everything good there? 18:24:05 <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving) 18:24:17 *** Firestar has quit IRC 18:47:41 *** Guvnor has joined #openttdcoop 18:59:33 <cornjuliox> !password 18:59:33 <PublicServer> cornjuliox: winged 19:06:42 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttdcoop 19:06:48 *** DayDreamer has left #openttdcoop 19:09:56 <Guvnor> @quickstart 19:09:57 <Webster> Quickstart - #openttdcoop Wiki - http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart 19:40:56 *** theholyduck has quit IRC 20:07:17 *** Tray has joined #openttdcoop 20:08:39 *** Tray|2 has joined #openttdcoop 20:13:56 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 20:13:56 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC joined the game 20:15:28 *** Tray has quit IRC 20:23:35 <PublicServer> *** XeryusTC has left the game (leaving) 20:29:50 *** theholyduck has joined #openttdcoop 20:37:54 *** nicfer has quit IRC 20:53:15 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 20:56:03 *** cornjuliox has quit IRC 20:58:59 *** DayDreamer has joined #openttdcoop 20:59:17 *** DayDreamer has quit IRC 21:04:06 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:36:39 *** sane has joined #openttdcoop 21:37:23 <sane> !players 21:37:25 *** bassals has joined #openttdcoop 21:37:25 <PublicServer> sane: There are currently no clients connected to the server 21:37:42 <sane> !info 21:37:42 <PublicServer> sane: #:1(Orange) Company Name: 'Sadingstone Transport' Year Founded: 2050 Money: 18075503598 Loan: 0 Value: 18079723815 (T:860, R:66, P:0, S:0) unprotected 21:37:52 <sane> !password 21:37:52 <PublicServer> sane: winged 21:38:48 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 21:38:56 <PublicServer> *** Player has changed his/her name to sane 21:52:24 <PublicServer> *** sane has joined company #1 21:53:54 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 21:53:54 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 21:53:56 <PublicServer> *** bassals joined the game 21:54:13 <PublicServer> <bassals> hello 21:54:53 <sane> hi just peeking how everything works out :) 22:13:52 *** Djarshi has quit IRC 22:14:40 *** theholyduck has quit IRC 22:17:34 *** theholyduck has joined #openttdcoop 22:26:00 *** TWerkhoven[l] has quit IRC 22:27:38 *** Maraxus has joined #openttdcoop 22:28:19 <Maraxus> !password 22:28:19 <PublicServer> Maraxus: tenths 22:28:26 <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (connection lost) 22:28:51 <PublicServer> *** Maraxus joined the game 22:28:54 <PublicServer> <bassals> hello 22:29:00 <PublicServer> <Maraxus> hi 22:40:31 <PublicServer> <bassals> can we raise the train limit? 22:43:05 <PublicServer> *** sane has left the game (leaving) 22:43:05 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 22:45:41 <sane> gn 22:48:53 <bassals> goodnight 22:49:00 <PublicServer> *** bassals has left the game (leaving) 22:49:15 *** bassals has quit IRC 22:49:46 <PublicServer> *** Maraxus has left the game (leaving) 22:49:52 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 22:53:45 *** sane has quit IRC 23:02:07 *** Tray|2 has quit IRC 23:11:11 <planetmaker> calc 23*6000 + 3.5*3000 23:17:58 <Mazur> So, I take it you have no advice to give about the industry images, then, planetmaker. 23:21:15 *** ODM has quit IRC 23:28:44 *** Progman has quit IRC