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00:11:37 <Rhamphoryncus> One day, in a moment of extremely poor judgement, you will all decide to play a map I suggest XD 00:32:32 *** Mazur has joined #openttdcoop 00:58:09 *** Thorinbur has quit IRC 01:28:49 *** pugi has quit IRC 02:49:36 *** Rhamphoryncus has quit IRC 04:44:25 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttdcoop 04:49:05 *** Razaekel is now known as Guest8216 04:49:05 *** Razaekal has joined #openttdcoop 04:49:05 *** Razaekal is now known as Razaekel 04:51:56 *** Guest8216 has quit IRC 06:07:38 *** roboboy has joined #openttdcoop 06:19:10 *** md_ has quit IRC 06:41:27 *** roboboy has quit IRC 07:10:55 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 07:16:42 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttdcoop 07:51:22 *** UncleCJ has joined #openttdcoop 08:30:46 *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop 08:35:25 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 08:36:07 *** roboboy has joined #openttdcoop 08:43:40 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttdcoop 08:52:15 *** Mazur has quit IRC 08:53:41 *** smoovi has joined #openttdcoop 09:03:17 <PublicServer> *** Sietse has left the game (connection lost) 09:03:52 *** Mazur has joined #openttdcoop 09:05:56 *** Hazzard has joined #openttdcoop 09:09:30 <Hazzard> Hello 09:17:37 *** roboboy has quit IRC 09:25:58 <Mazur> Halo II. 09:27:14 <Hazzard> ._. 10:21:25 *** roboboy has joined #openttdcoop 10:24:01 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop 10:24:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o ODM 10:26:38 *** valhallasw has joined #openttdcoop 10:30:30 *** smoovi has quit IRC 10:39:59 *** smoovi has joined #openttdcoop 10:52:53 *** Hazzard has quit IRC 11:17:28 <Mark> aloha 11:21:12 <Mazur> Hola. 11:21:50 *** valhallasw has quit IRC 11:21:54 *** roboboy has quit IRC 11:49:08 *** smoovi has quit IRC 12:19:49 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttdcoop 12:34:55 *** Thorinbur has joined #openttdcoop 12:51:46 <Mark> !password 12:51:46 <PublicServer> Mark: rebuts 12:52:22 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 12:52:23 <PublicServer> *** Mark joined the game 12:53:25 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 12:53:25 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 12:53:25 <PublicServer> *** Thorinbur joined the game 12:55:37 <PublicServer> <Mark> new game new game new game 12:55:47 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> well end game 12:55:53 <V453000> sunday sunday sunday 12:55:58 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> :) 12:56:05 <PublicServer> <Mark> i want it now now now 12:56:29 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> BBH 04 is not working as fluently as yesterday it was 12:56:59 <PublicServer> <Mark> 04 is ugly :P 12:57:09 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> is awesome 12:57:31 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> but north line is full... 12:57:45 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> expand to 5 lines? XD? 12:58:05 <V453000> it should be ok with the current load 12:58:13 <V453000> yesterday it was and no trains were added I believe 12:58:15 <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah it is 12:58:29 <PublicServer> <Mark> just the balancer is full, but thats what its for 12:58:56 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> I am just saying tha all 5 lines there are almost full, 12:59:02 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> main line at capacity almost 12:59:16 <V453000> almost = ok 12:59:16 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> right most line only has some gaps 13:00:07 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> I know , I saw games where you were making sure that it was full. Logic driven injectors shifters and so on 13:00:32 <PublicServer> <Mark> compressors :D 13:01:42 <PublicServer> <Mark> V: whats the pf trap? 13:01:52 <PublicServer> <Mark> is it just for construction? 13:02:58 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> It is for pathfiding, so train will choose line because pathfinding will find station or something there, and than it wont be able to actully go there. 13:03:09 <PublicServer> <Mark> well obviously 13:03:11 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> used mostly in overflows i think 13:03:18 <PublicServer> <Mark> doesnt seem needed though 13:03:39 <V453000> mfb added that "because there is something often built" on the refinery line 13:03:40 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> where? 13:03:42 <V453000> which made trains lost 13:03:44 <V453000> I hate it tbh 13:03:46 <PublicServer> <Mark> probably to avoid trains getting lost when ml is under consctruction 13:03:50 <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah 13:04:48 <PublicServer> <Mark> bridges unsynced at ref drop 13:04:55 <PublicServer> <Mark> tempted to make that a landbridge 13:05:14 <V453000> I knows, does it jam anything? 13:05:22 <V453000> !password 13:05:22 <PublicServer> V453000: cowing 13:05:31 *** Maraxus has joined #openttdcoop 13:05:33 <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game 13:05:34 <PublicServer> <Mark> well, the ml, not all the way to 04 though 13:06:21 <PublicServer> <V453000> which? 13:06:24 <PublicServer> <V453000> the water crossing? 13:06:27 <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah 13:06:34 <PublicServer> <V453000> kill water? 13:06:37 <PublicServer> <Mark> its nothing bad really, its just ugly :P 13:06:43 <PublicServer> <Mark> yeah im tempted 13:06:45 <PublicServer> <V453000> I also hate how it slows 13:07:35 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> how was it unsynced? 13:07:41 <PublicServer> <V453000> it wasnt 13:07:44 <PublicServer> <V453000> just evil mode 13:07:50 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> oh ok 13:09:37 <PublicServer> <V453000> move it more to the edge? 13:09:47 <PublicServer> <Mark> sure 13:09:58 <PublicServer> <Mark> suppose that pf trap does have its uses :P 13:10:10 <PublicServer> <V453000> for this, yes 13:11:16 <PublicServer> <Mark> we blocked the annual whale miggration 13:11:22 <PublicServer> <V453000> :D 13:11:24 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> haha 13:11:27 <PublicServer> <Mark> they're all going to get stuck in that corner 13:14:03 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> hey is that "shifting" setup of termius at rafinery drop better than typical X setup or just different 13:14:05 <PublicServer> <Mark> greenpeace'd 13:14:19 <PublicServer> <Mark> its better 13:14:21 <PublicServer> <Mark> :P 13:14:31 <PublicServer> <V453000> depends in what 13:14:31 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> yeah thats what i though, but wasnt sure 13:14:35 <PublicServer> <Mark> trains dont "share" tiles in it 13:14:37 <PublicServer> <V453000> in size it is a lot worse 13:14:39 <PublicServer> <Mark> x-less design 13:14:45 <PublicServer> <V453000> in platform efficiency it is better 13:14:51 <PublicServer> <V453000> in the end it doesnt matter 13:15:01 <PublicServer> <Mark> looks cooler :P 13:15:08 <PublicServer> <V453000> yes that it does :) 13:15:10 <PublicServer> <Mark> im pretty sure size/effeciency ratio is better 13:15:25 <PublicServer> <Mark> and adds to wtf-content 13:15:39 <PublicServer> <V453000> well yeah the size isnt that terrible 13:16:41 <PublicServer> <Mark> Thorinbur: im pretty sure the "station" section on the wiki explains it 13:18:11 <PublicServer> <Thorinbur> i dont know, was wiki updated lately? 13:18:36 <Mark> well 13:18:44 <Mark> i wrote that article 3 years or so ago 13:18:50 <Mark> pretty sure its still more or less valid 13:18:57 <Mark> the general principle should be, anyway 13:19:56 <Thorinbur> thing that needs updating is tutorial game in my opinion 13:20:08 <V453000> every psg is tutorial game 13:20:09 <Mark> it does indeed 13:20:32 <PublicServer> *** Mark has left the game (connection lost) 13:20:50 <Mark> ah stupid f*ing ancient pc running out of memory 13:23:11 <Mark> Thorinbur: http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Main_station 13:23:33 <Mark> sort of up-to-date 13:24:02 <V453000> @abr07 might also be useful 13:24:03 <Webster> Advanced Building Revue 07: Stations at #openttdcoop - http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2010/09/28/advanced-building-revue-07-stations/ 13:24:14 <V453000> the terminus stuff probably isnt there, not sure 13:24:33 <V453000> ah, it is mentioned a bit 13:25:10 <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving) 13:25:11 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 13:25:18 <Mark> you should make a wiki article listing all your abrs 13:25:22 <Thorinbur> Well i know how to build station, dont need that many materials (but thanks anyway) was just curious about this particular design 13:26:00 <Thorinbur> wasnt sure if it is more efficient or just different for the sake of interest. 13:26:58 <V453000> mhm, perhaps, but I think putting effort into wiki would be better in firstly massively reorganizing it 13:27:14 <Mark> probably 13:27:19 <V453000> I wanted to add some articles like pf trap or the PBS->2way signalling but knew not where to put it 13:27:33 <Mark> advanced networking probably 13:27:35 <V453000> I dont know if someone orientates in it, but I certainly dont 13:27:46 <Mark> make an article on pathfinding 13:27:49 <Mark> or something 13:28:00 <V453000> yes but advanced networking .. of what, BBH, SLH, and next to that PF trap? doesnt make sense 13:28:19 <Mark> i mean advanced building concepts 13:28:41 <V453000> yes under which are things like SRNW or SML 13:28:47 <Mark> yes... 13:29:02 <V453000> I already started with some resystematization somewhere.. 13:29:31 <Mark> make a catagory "networking theory" or something 13:29:48 <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/New_Main_Page not sure if 100% finished but I worked on something like this 13:31:13 <V453000> the main purpose is to have three obvious categories 13:31:18 <V453000> 1. setting up and reading rules 13:31:29 <V453000> 2. basics that you really need to know 13:31:31 <V453000> 3. extra stuff 13:31:57 <V453000> and then the data like archive, grf etc, and last the community box 13:32:37 <Mark> yeah thats pretty much how it is now, the catagories could be shuffled and expanded a bit i suppose 13:33:01 <V453000> well not reall 13:33:15 <V453000> atm you have them all everywhere a bit I would say 13:33:31 <V453000> of course advanced isnt in setting up stuff, but mainline is there, sideline is there, then it is somehow again in the basics 13:33:42 <Mark> i guess "basics" and "advanced" is subjective 13:34:10 <V453000> partially, I think it is quite obvious in the end ... if you put basic general rules in basic, and concepts in advanced, it is quite well separated 13:34:36 <V453000> like ... when building a BBH you need to provide choices somehow. that is basic general rule. But having an article on All to all mergers and how exactly to do it is advanced 13:34:45 <hylje> gotta go fast 13:35:35 <Mark> yes... shame kenji is hardly around anymore, i think he started the wiki re-organzing years ago 13:35:56 <V453000> or the guide that you have on BBHs. That is great to show beginners how to build a standard BBH 13:36:38 <Mark> yes and it could re-direct to advanced merging and stuff, i see what you mean 13:36:44 <V453000> exactly 13:37:23 <V453000> if I hate something the most then it is the duplicity of stuff in different articles 13:37:33 <V453000> if you click mainline on the main page you get in two different spots 13:38:51 <Mark> hm wtf 13:39:15 <Mark> that old article even redirects to line_hierarchy, which was supposed to replace the old page :/ 13:39:49 <Mark> IMO line hierarchy is a good base from which to explain all parts of the network 13:40:12 <Mark> have a short explanation on all and a redirect to the actual page, which then again redirects to the advanced stuff 13:40:18 *** smoovi has joined #openttdcoop 13:40:22 <Mark> of course it should also be accesible from the main page straight away 13:40:56 <Thorinbur> yeah, wiki is a mess right now. 13:40:59 <V453000> well of course but from one source, one page 13:41:47 <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/New_Main_Page Basic Networking would be that hierarchy 13:41:49 <PublicServer> *** Thorinbur has left the game (leaving) 13:43:24 <V453000> rest in the basics is probably clear, game types need some cleanup but are rather easy to write, signalling... some examples on signals I guess, terraforming is clear, curves are clear, orders realyl need updating 13:44:05 <V453000> and then elementary building, as basic examples on stuff that works, like your standard BBH, making a standard SLH or eventually MSH, some basic balanced and not balanced station, and basic city network 13:44:12 <V453000> and from there anyone is ready to contribute 13:45:00 <V453000> I am unfortunately extremely busy lately but I hope I will have some spare time in the next few months 13:45:25 <Mark> i have had absolutely nothing to do the last few months but will be on the road again soon :P 13:45:48 <V453000> I knows :( 13:45:59 <Mark> suppose i could've done some usefull stuff 13:46:01 <Mark> oh well :D 13:46:07 <V453000> you did 13:46:13 <V453000> made some games alive, always good :) 13:46:23 <V453000> permanent contributions .. meh, work and effort 13:46:39 <Mark> :) 13:46:41 <V453000> people who want to build well will find their way through the archive anyway 13:47:00 <V453000> people who are lazy need the extracted bit on the wiki 13:47:18 <V453000> which certainly is good to have just for the sake of system and written knowledge, but still 13:47:51 <Thorinbur> Well, problem is there is always small window to build in those games 13:48:17 <V453000> I built for _months_ in singleplayer on my own until I learned majority of coop stuff 13:48:33 <V453000> then contributing is viable for you in any stage of game 13:48:54 <Thorinbur> I have problem with staying on one map long enought for it to get interesting 13:49:07 <V453000> I know I did the same 13:49:18 <V453000> but some few ended up great 13:49:19 <Thorinbur> I saw enought coop games not to make basic mistakes so there are no problems to solve 13:49:45 <Thorinbur> never was able to reach capacity on my single player games. 13:49:46 <V453000> not enough traffic if there arent enough problems :D 13:49:59 <V453000> more industries then :> 13:50:01 <Thorinbur> I know, but i got borred of connecting primaries alone 13:50:09 <V453000> hm yeah :) 13:50:52 <Thorinbur> and when you enter coop, it is hard to do anything since veterans are building stuff rapidly and in amazing way. 13:51:13 <Thorinbur> I basicly build here like 4 BBH and few SLH 13:51:28 <Thorinbur> and my bigest BBHs were in the game with FIRS 13:51:37 <V453000> every map has a place for anyone to build 13:51:38 <Thorinbur> that got ditched due to complexity 13:51:50 <V453000> any FIRS game did? 13:51:52 <Thorinbur> so my hubs never got tested 13:52:26 <V453000> only FIRS games I can think of are 178 and 188 13:52:37 <V453000> probably 188 is the one but there were some expansions 13:52:47 <V453000> 178 was overkill in most places 13:53:36 <Mark> 222 was firs 13:54:00 <V453000> ok 178 it was 13:54:22 <Mark> 222 was my plan with like 30 main hubs 13:55:33 <Thorinbur> it was game 178 13:56:17 <Thorinbur> my first two Hubs, ah memories :) 13:56:31 <V453000> well, that is a long time ago, consider that games happen quite a bit differently nowadays 13:56:50 <V453000> we expand stuff more I think, and majority of your stuff really gets "tested" 13:59:00 <Thorinbur> What i am trying to say It is hard to join games and do anything 13:59:42 <Thorinbur> I tend to join quite randomly and 90% of the time It is network in the state i am afraid to touch anything 14:00:06 <V453000> well, why 14:00:51 <Thorinbur> Because I take long time to build anything due to lack of experience, and than it tends to quicly get replaced anyway 14:01:45 <V453000> I dont think you will fix that otherwise than by getting experience unfortunately, either on building on PS anyhow else 14:01:58 <Thorinbur> Last time i build something it took me about two hours localy to fit it in the space given, then i recreated it on the server and it was replaced two hours later by someone who thought his design was better even when i dont really agreed with that 14:03:22 <Thorinbur> dont remember who it was, and dont want to point fingers but it makes it pointless. This server is out of my league and i think I am quite good at building. 14:03:34 <Thorinbur> So i just come here to maybe learn something 14:03:43 <Thorinbur> look aroun , se some crazy designs 14:03:59 <V453000> just try to build stuff again. 14:04:09 <Mark> the only way is to just build stuff really... 14:04:14 <V453000> if you think you failed that horribly the first time, just fix the issues from the first time 14:04:21 <Thorinbur> I am trying to highlight the point 14:04:22 <Mark> just start of with a SLH or something, ask someone to guide you through it 14:04:32 <Thorinbur> Now look at someone who is new to coop 14:04:40 <Mark> everyone was new at some point 14:05:10 <Mark> although i admit it gets harder and harder to get to coop level as time progresses 14:05:43 <V453000> nothing to do with that 14:06:07 <V453000> there also is stable server nowadays where people learn basics, but I dont think it is a good example as you learn _much_ faster here 14:06:23 <Mark> what might be good is to get a "real" sandbox where people can just build stuff 14:06:29 <Thorinbur> you are talking about welcome server? 14:06:30 <Mark> training, sort of 14:06:48 <V453000> I think that would just be against the point of PS being totally public 14:07:00 <V453000> nobody ever got screamed at or offended for building for the first time and trying 14:07:02 <V453000> everyonge gets help 14:07:19 <Mark> i dont mean people would need a certain level to enter the PS 14:07:20 <Thorinbur> I never said that. Comunity is friendly 14:07:24 <V453000> being instatnly accepted to the "proper" environment is better I think 14:07:24 <Mark> just training for confidence 14:07:26 <Thorinbur> but you feel small 14:07:45 <V453000> yeah, sure but training they can do anywhere and send you savegame if they _want_ 14:07:56 <V453000> but people will rather say it is too hard :) 14:08:04 <Mark> yes but people are much less likely to actually give feedback 14:08:11 <Mark> because to have to download the savegame 14:08:21 <V453000> not really 14:08:31 <V453000> whenever there is a savegame posted here you get at least 3 people responding 14:08:38 <Mark> "live" training is much more effecient than saying "you have to change this" "you have to double that signal" "that bridge is not in sync" 14:08:47 <V453000> true 14:08:58 <Mark> yes but shuttling savegames back and forth takes way more time than live building and chat 14:09:02 <V453000> but I think when you have a wiki which says absolute basic what should do what, doing it on PS is good enough 14:09:07 <V453000> yeah, true 14:09:39 <Mark> yes, but as Thorinbur said, only the first part of the game we really build stuff, the rest is just improving really 14:09:58 <Mark> and as a new player i wouldnt feel confident building a SLH on a busy ML halfway through the game, i imagine 14:10:06 <Thorinbur> you have small window of time when the game is on entry leel 14:10:20 <V453000> that is true 14:11:50 <V453000> L_R games are usually great for something like that 14:12:02 <Mark> having some empty map where players can just build stuff and recieve feedback would probably be good 14:12:25 <Mark> yeah... LR BBHs arent quite the same as LL_RR ones though 14:12:39 <Thorinbur> Maybe server with faster changing maps 14:12:55 <Thorinbur> where game dont progress to LLLL5RRRR 14:13:08 <Mark> that beats the purpose of building the most insane networks 14:13:21 <V453000> sure, would have to be separate from ps 14:13:35 <Mark> yeah, thats what we got the welcome server for, sort of 14:13:40 <Mark> rotates much faster 14:13:50 <V453000> yes, kind of 14:13:51 <Thorinbur> never actually been there 14:13:52 <Mark> and especially if you coop with 2 people you can still build quite a big network 14:14:08 <V453000> yes 14:14:11 <Mark> check it out, there are some pretty good builders around usually 14:14:19 <Thorinbur> oh, so thats what it is 14:14:22 <Mark> maps rotate way faster 14:14:37 <Thorinbur> I did just that lately on some public server 14:14:45 <Thorinbur> i left it thou because of griefers flooding the map 14:14:55 <Mark> wont get that here 14:14:55 <V453000> well that doesnt happen at our welcome server 14:15:11 <Thorinbur> I am sure it doesnt 14:15:20 <V453000> it does occasionally, but that is very rare 14:15:27 <Mark> we're more than happy to ban someone and load an autosave if it does 14:15:51 <Thorinbur> good thing is there is always someone around who can do that 14:16:08 <Mark> #openttdcoop.stable is the irc channel 14:16:17 <Thorinbur> on the server I was guy was checking out the server once a day so... 14:17:57 <Thorinbur> of course the server IP is not on the wiki 14:18:17 <Mark> join #openttdcoop.stable 14:18:47 <V453000> thinking about the sandbox, I think it would sooner or later basically become an equivalent of the stable ... I guess the general idea would be have shitload of money and some land to build in. But who wants to just build LL_RR hub and not send trains there 14:19:06 <V453000> idk 14:19:37 <Mark> people might, just for training purposes 14:19:45 <Mark> especially if they can recieve feedback on it 14:20:31 <V453000> I guess 14:20:31 <Mark> wtf... how can i be using 2gigs of memory running irc, ottd and firefox? 14:21:07 <V453000> I have above 4gb permanently used without actually doing anything :D 14:21:27 <V453000> well I have a few programs used but still 14:21:30 <Mark> yes, but i got litteraly nothing running 14:21:37 <Mark> and it used to work fine 14:22:05 <Thorinbur> I have 68% used form my 4Gigs 14:22:27 <Mark> i used to run at 400mb 14:22:49 <Mark> all the processes in task manager add up to about 250 14:23:17 <Thorinbur> I think it is Windows fault. You know how much memory and disk space windows takes? 14:23:38 <Mark> windows xp? 14:23:40 <Mark> not that much 14:23:51 <Thorinbur> wrong 14:23:52 <Mark> and as i said, it's been fine for like 5 years 14:24:00 <Thorinbur> any windows will take as much as it finds :) 14:25:41 <Thorinbur> I have 4 versions of OpenTTD installed in my system 14:25:50 <Thorinbur> 3 of them pinned to taskBar 14:26:11 <Thorinbur> non of them is the one that is being run on the welcome server. damn :) 14:26:14 <Thorinbur> need 5th one 14:26:58 <Thorinbur> And i have two portable versions on my pendrives:) 14:29:04 *** Mark has quit IRC 14:32:30 *** TWerkhoven has joined #openttdcoop 15:01:30 *** pugi has quit IRC 15:08:59 *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop 15:20:49 *** Tray has joined #openttdcoop 15:24:27 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop 15:24:58 <Chris_Booth> It's friday and 36 mins left of work! 15:34:58 *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC 15:52:51 *** Mark has joined #openttdcoop 15:52:51 *** Webster sets mode: +o Mark 15:52:55 *** ppetak has joined #openttdcoop 15:52:57 <Webster> Hi! From all your Coop Friends! 16:10:18 *** Progman has quit IRC 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Mark 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ODM 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Sylf 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v KenjiE20 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o SmatZ 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v planetmaker 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Ammler 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Webster 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v V453000 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v XeryusTC 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tneo 16:27:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v ^Spike^ 16:36:31 *** pugi has joined #openttdcoop 16:59:08 *** valhallasw has joined #openttdcoop 17:05:49 *** Chris_Booth[ph] has joined #openttdcoop 17:06:16 <Chris_Booth[ph]> Hi 17:15:10 *** Thorinbur_ has joined #openttdcoop 17:19:12 *** Thorinbur has quit IRC 17:19:21 *** Thorinbur_ is now known as Thorinbur 17:27:46 *** Chris_Booth[ph] has quit IRC 17:29:26 <Tray> !password 17:29:26 <PublicServer> Tray: croons 17:29:49 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 17:29:52 <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game 17:33:19 <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving) 17:33:26 *** TWerkhoven has quit IRC 17:50:30 *** TWerkhoven has joined #openttdcoop 17:51:01 *** Firartix has joined #openttdcoop 17:56:32 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 18:08:15 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttdcoop 18:32:16 *** Zeknurn` has quit IRC 18:33:52 *** Zeknurn has joined #openttdcoop 18:35:34 *** Firartix has quit IRC 18:46:11 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 18:47:38 *** Firartix has joined #openttdcoop 18:55:05 *** Ryton has joined #openttdcoop 18:57:55 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 18:57:56 <PublicServer> *** tneo joined the game 18:59:15 <PublicServer> *** tneo has left the game (leaving) 18:59:49 <Ryton> !password 18:59:49 <PublicServer> Ryton: croons 19:00:46 <Ryton> should have stayed tneo ;-) 19:00:57 <PublicServer> *** Ryton has left the game (connection lost) 19:00:59 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 19:01:20 <Ryton> !password 19:01:20 <PublicServer> Ryton: croons 19:01:25 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 19:01:28 <PublicServer> *** Ryton joined the game 19:01:40 <tneo> you want to build Ryton ? 19:02:01 <PublicServer> <Ryton> no, just looking :-) 19:02:11 <PublicServer> <Ryton> haven't been here in a while 19:02:15 <PublicServer> <Ryton> so much has change 19:02:17 <PublicServer> <Ryton> d 19:06:53 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 19:06:53 <PublicServer> <V453000> hi 19:06:55 <PublicServer> <Ryton> can someone explain me what is the advantage of using exactly 2.5 TL long feeders? 19:06:55 <PublicServer> *** V453000 joined the game 19:06:59 <PublicServer> <Ryton> hi there 19:07:05 <PublicServer> <Ryton> you'd like to build, I assume? :-) 19:07:15 <PublicServer> <V453000> yes they have 4 wagons which is exactly half of TL5 train with 8 wagons 19:07:18 <PublicServer> <V453000> no not really 19:07:28 <PublicServer> <V453000> have stuff to be done 19:07:38 <PublicServer> <Ryton> well, the transfer station has excess ore waiting :;p 19:07:52 <PublicServer> <Ryton> so that defeats the purpose imho :-) 19:07:58 <PublicServer> <V453000> just because the pickup trains dont suffice 19:08:05 <PublicServer> <V453000> I dont think there is any purpose in the end 19:08:19 <PublicServer> <Ryton> then you can as well make them TL3, no? 19:08:25 <PublicServer> <V453000> you dont really have to care if trains in station have 0/50/100% or any other number 19:08:31 <PublicServer> <V453000> doesnt matter in my opinion 19:08:57 <PublicServer> <V453000> with some SRNW it of course would to have the cargoes equal of dummy/picku ptrains but with normal full load transfer station I dont think it makes any difference 19:09:08 <PublicServer> <Ryton> ok, thought so 19:09:32 <PublicServer> <Ryton> thats why I asked (I could have been wrong offcourse) 19:09:38 <PublicServer> <V453000> how do you like the game? :) 19:09:52 <PublicServer> <V453000> I mean ... you said stuff changeed, I wondered what do you mean by that 19:09:59 <PublicServer> <Ryton> I read the chat, so I knew I could expect a massive game:p 19:10:07 <PublicServer> <V453000> xD 19:10:10 <PublicServer> <Ryton> bit many oil/goods trains 19:10:25 <PublicServer> <V453000> game with rigs enabled ... :> 19:11:07 <PublicServer> <Ryton> I think I agree with ... idk who said it... about PS games getting complex squickly 19:11:13 <PublicServer> <Ryton> quickly* 19:11:20 <PublicServer> <V453000> thats possible 19:11:23 <PublicServer> <Ryton> after your sunday game, maybe a larger map with less TF? :-) 19:11:39 <PublicServer> <V453000> how would a larger map help? 19:11:42 <PublicServer> <Ryton> then the average linecount will be lower 19:11:52 <PublicServer> <Ryton> or more space to add SLH's 19:11:54 <PublicServer> <V453000> hm, possibly 19:12:00 <PublicServer> <Ryton> therefore, easier for newbies such as myself ;)-) 19:12:18 <PublicServer> <V453000> but yes could do something like that 19:12:40 <PublicServer> <Ryton> cause a SLH people like me can build, or attempt to 19:12:43 <PublicServer> <Ryton> or even a simple BBH 19:12:57 <PublicServer> <Ryton> but expanding a 3x3 BBH to 4x4 is work for the elite ;-) 19:13:11 <PublicServer> <Ryton> so if you have like 10-20small SLH's or BBHs 19:13:22 <PublicServer> <Ryton> chanses are bigger that the small upgrades are required 19:13:41 <PublicServer> <V453000> depends really 19:13:43 <PublicServer> <Ryton> but it'll be less interesting for the pros then, I'm afriad 19:13:53 <PublicServer> <Ryton> maybe 2 different levels could be interesting 19:13:55 <PublicServer> <V453000> if you build the BBH yourself, expanding usually isnt that hard as you understand it well 19:14:05 <PublicServer> <Ryton> one super busy area (like centre ring with massive BBHs 19:14:12 <PublicServer> <Ryton> and some less dense areas aroudn it? 19:14:34 <PublicServer> <Ryton> I disagree, V 19:14:44 <PublicServer> <Ryton> if it is not expandable, you'll have a hard time 19:14:51 <PublicServer> <Ryton> evne if you understand your build :p 19:14:53 <PublicServer> <V453000> wasnt talking about expandability 19:15:00 <PublicServer> <V453000> but if youu yourself build it 19:15:14 <PublicServer> <V453000> it should be easier for you to expand it than expanding stuff of someone else 19:15:33 <PublicServer> <Ryton> depends ;-) 19:15:47 <PublicServer> <Ryton> if the other person builds less chaotic hubs, no :P 19:16:18 <PublicServer> <Ryton> or SLH's at least 19:16:24 <PublicServer> <Ryton> maybe with BBH's you are right 19:16:42 <PublicServer> <V453000> SLHs are easy to expand 19:16:48 <PublicServer> <V453000> with exceptions of course, but... 19:16:55 <PublicServer> <Ryton> IF they are made expandable :p 19:17:01 <PublicServer> <Ryton> which they should, I know :p 19:17:12 <PublicServer> <V453000> it doesnt have to look expandable to others 19:17:22 <PublicServer> <V453000> BBH 04 was 3 lines from each side in the beginning 19:17:24 <PublicServer> <Ryton> but, let me take BBH02 as an example 19:17:38 <PublicServer> <V453000> now it has 5 in two directions and when others wanted to upgrade it they almost started nuking it 19:17:44 <PublicServer> <Ryton> wont be easy to expand it, but it looks more regular/easy than e.g. your BBH04 :p 19:18:02 <PublicServer> <V453000> yes it is very standard 19:18:04 *** mfb- has joined #openttdcoop 19:18:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o mfb- 19:18:12 <mfb-> hi 19:18:15 <PublicServer> <V453000> hi 19:18:31 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 19:18:31 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 19:18:31 <PublicServer> *** mfb joined the game 19:19:00 <PublicServer> <Ryton> but understanding the hub is the first step, about that I agree 19:19:11 <tneo> it is true PS games turn complex rather quickly, but that is because we're doing this for several years already so there is a certain level of knowledge around 19:19:14 <PublicServer> <Ryton> if you build it yourself, you should understand it (normally ;-) 19:19:40 <mfb-> no :p 19:19:58 <PublicServer> <mfb> well, the basic idea of course 19:20:00 <PublicServer> <Ryton> it is not a prob for me, tneo. but like "someone" mentioned: you really have to be here at the right time in the week to contribute at your level, if it is relatively low :)) 19:20:13 <tneo> uhu 19:20:14 <PublicServer> <mfb> you can always add primaries 19:20:16 <PublicServer> <Ryton> in these type of games ... else you can look and learn, but not build too much anymore 19:20:19 <tneo> I agree 19:20:21 <PublicServer> <mfb> or build some stuff at SLs 19:20:21 <PublicServer> <V453000> that is true, the original building is just like 2 days usually 19:20:32 <PublicServer> <Ryton> but no problem for me 19:20:42 <PublicServer> <mfb> if you want to build your own BBH, you need the right timing 19:20:48 <PublicServer> <Ryton> like I said: this is more interesting for the top part of the players :-) and these are the most active 19:20:54 <PublicServer> <mfb> SLHs are a bit better 19:20:58 <PublicServer> <Ryton> so the game delivers what the average player wants => good :-) 19:21:28 <PublicServer> <Ryton> and I like watching as much as trying to build (which takes painstakingly much time ;-)) 19:22:06 <mfb-> in my first games here, I just build small stuff - no idea where the first hub was 19:22:20 <mfb-> was fine 19:22:20 <PublicServer> <V453000> I already thought about this "problem" but it is hard to do anything about it really. One of the options guys mentioned was to have an extra sandbox where new players could just build a lot of stuff. 19:22:36 <tneo> or move more players to pro 19:22:44 <PublicServer> <V453000> yes that was the other thing I thought about 19:22:58 <PublicServer> <V453000> but I think even moving people to pro-zone will not reduce the level of public server 19:23:04 <PublicServer> <Ryton> it doesnt need a solution, PS shouldnt be changed at all imho. just make a plan which gives opportunities 19:23:07 <PublicServer> <V453000> that just wont happen, people will build here the same way 19:23:09 <PublicServer> <Ryton> many SLH's, more small BBH's :-) 19:23:19 <PublicServer> <V453000> yes :) 19:23:22 <tneo> probably not, but gives people a change of joining and learning 19:23:39 <PublicServer> <V453000> I also think we should do more L_R games from start 19:23:41 <PublicServer> <Ryton> may be a faillure, but we can try, could be interesting 19:23:55 <PublicServer> <V453000> no, many hubs certainly isnt a failure 19:24:05 <mfb-> hmm 19:24:33 <mfb-> maybe plans which do not use the whole map to work can help 19:24:33 <PublicServer> <V453000> L_R takes a while to build up, and it is usually a lot of fun too 19:24:41 <mfb-> in that way, we have more parts to build later 19:24:44 <PublicServer> <Ryton> but add some very dense area, eg with town drop & factory close near eachother :p 19:24:50 <PublicServer> <Ryton> so there is a challenge too ;-) 19:24:51 <PublicServer> <V453000> hm not too sure about that 19:25:24 <mfb-> we can work on the 4th line through that mega hub while others can build a peaceful LL_RR BBH 19:25:39 <PublicServer> <V453000> 6way plan anyone? :D 19:25:50 <PublicServer> <Ryton> yeah mfb.but on a map like this, it is all 4+ now :-) 19:25:53 <mfb-> I didn't forget it ;) 19:25:59 <PublicServer> <Ryton> (or primaries)à 19:26:01 <mfb-> ryton: so what? ;) 19:26:13 <mfb-> oh, steel mill is still 3 in I think 19:26:24 <PublicServer> <V453000> factory too 19:26:26 <PublicServer> <Ryton> is that an offer? ;-) 19:26:28 <PublicServer> <mfb> and the southern line has a LL_RR part 19:26:46 <PublicServer> <Ryton> oh sorry, I should have done my homework more properly then :-) 19:26:56 <PublicServer> <Ryton> I see the end of 3rd there now 19:27:15 <PublicServer> <mfb> SLH07 was never expanded :) 19:27:50 <PublicServer> <Ryton> so BBH03 is 4 4 on one side, 4-3 on the other and 2 2 on last direction? :D 19:28:27 <PublicServer> <V453000> factory exit is 4 liens while entrance 3? :D 19:28:53 <PublicServer> <Ryton> better like this than other way around :p 19:28:59 <PublicServer> <V453000> not really 19:29:06 <PublicServer> <V453000> most trains that go in are full 19:29:18 <PublicServer> <V453000> so they are heavier 19:29:22 <PublicServer> <V453000> Probably 19:29:56 <PublicServer> <Ryton> so lower troughput (larger distance between trains) you mean? 19:32:27 <PublicServer> <V453000> w 19:32:30 <PublicServer> <V453000> when empty yes 19:32:38 <PublicServer> <V453000> ah vice versa nevermind 19:33:53 <PublicServer> *** Ryton has joined company #1 19:49:47 <mfb-> I think it is quite easy 19:50:04 <mfb-> Mark noticed some jams at the steel/sawmill merge and upgraded its exit 19:50:37 <mfb-> the merge at BBH03 stacks trains sometimes 19:50:41 <mfb-> a 4th would be useful 19:50:56 <mfb-> and a real mess to add at the pickups 19:51:13 <PublicServer> <mfb> unless you make it the dirty way 19:54:15 <PublicServer> <V453000> it is dirty already so hack as you want I would say :D 19:55:16 <Thorinbur> hey Ryton:) It was me that was talking about steep joining curve on Public server 19:55:18 <Thorinbur> :) 19:57:52 <Ryton> ah yes 19:58:29 <Ryton> sorry I forgot it was you 20:04:20 <V453000> oil = black or mauve? 20:04:22 <V453000> dark mauve 20:04:33 <PublicServer> <V453000> rather black right 20:09:44 <PublicServer> *** Ryton has left the game (leaving) 20:14:56 <PublicServer> <mfb> M&M = Mark&Mazur? 20:18:08 <mfb-> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Special:RecentChanges wtf 20:21:07 <V453000> just fucking spam users 20:21:22 <V453000> they create account and want to post spam which they dont manage to 20:21:31 <mfb-> captcha for acc creating might help 20:21:44 <mfb-> but the name[number] thing is new 20:21:46 <V453000> dont tell me :) 20:22:38 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> hi 20:22:38 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth joined the game 20:22:40 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop 20:22:59 <mfb-> hi 20:23:01 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I don't speak germany, but I can if you like 20:23:32 <mfb-> how can you "speak a country" at all? 20:23:44 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> lol 20:23:55 <mfb-> :p 20:24:04 <mfb-> why german? 20:24:08 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> I meant "I don't speak germany, but I can if you like" 20:24:09 <V453000> dafuq :-D 20:24:12 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> why not 20:24:29 <mfb-> well, I don't have a problem with that :p 20:24:49 <PublicServer> <Chris Booth> Generaly I salg the french off 20:25:01 <mfb-> french is evil 20:25:29 <V453000> french is ... lets not be politically incorrect 20:26:46 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttdcoop 20:26:49 <Chris_Booth> I get annoyed by the french, they are racist yet have a half Hungarian president 20:26:57 <Chris_Booth> and his wife is Italian 20:27:06 *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC 20:28:36 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttdcoop 20:28:41 <PublicServer> *** Chris Booth has left the game (leaving) 20:29:13 <V453000> well one cant be too surprised with the amount of arabic-trouble etc there 20:29:25 <valhallasw> of course, all the french are the same 20:30:21 <mfb-> as with all who are different from you in some way :D 20:32:45 <Tray> !password 20:32:45 <PublicServer> Tray: totals 20:33:08 <PublicServer> *** Tray joined the game 20:35:12 <PublicServer> *** Tray has left the game (leaving) 20:40:04 <PublicServer> *** mfb has joined spectators 20:40:04 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players) 20:41:41 *** ODM has quit IRC 20:42:04 <PublicServer> *** V453000 has left the game (leaving) 20:42:10 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 20:42:13 <PublicServer> *** Mazur joined the game 20:42:16 <PublicServer> <Mazur> Maraxus & me. 20:44:20 <PublicServer> <Mazur> Looking at it, there's still a litle flaw in Maraxus' overflow there, the signal after the bridge should be one tile more north 21:15:15 *** fonsinchen has quit IRC 21:15:27 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttdcoop 21:16:35 *** valhallasw has quit IRC 21:19:00 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:40:28 *** smoovi has quit IRC 21:40:30 *** Chris_Booth has quit IRC 21:53:12 *** Progman has joined #openttdcoop 22:15:42 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:20:52 <PublicServer> *** mfb has left the game (leaving) 22:34:19 *** mfb- has quit IRC 22:47:08 *** Tray has quit IRC 22:51:47 *** Razaekal has joined #openttdcoop 22:51:47 *** Razaekel is now known as Guest30 22:51:48 *** Razaekal is now known as Razaekel 22:57:12 *** Guest30 has quit IRC 23:01:40 *** Zeknurn has quit IRC 23:02:21 *** Zeknurn has joined #openttdcoop 23:05:20 *** pugi has quit IRC 23:06:43 *** ppetak has quit IRC 23:07:50 *** TWerkhoven has quit IRC 23:08:55 *** Firartix has quit IRC 23:33:52 *** UncleCJ has quit IRC 23:37:22 *** Hazzard has joined #openttdcoop 23:38:18 <Hazzard> Hey 23:38:59 <PublicServer> *** Game still paused (number of players) 23:39:01 <PublicServer> *** Hazzard joined the game 23:39:07 <Hazzard> Hello 23:40:13 <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has joined company #1 23:40:13 <PublicServer> *** Game unpaused (number of players) 23:40:58 <PublicServer> *** Hazzard has joined spectators 23:40:58 <PublicServer> *** Game paused (number of players)