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00:03:21 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 06:42:16 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 223:aeda73ec5c2c: Fix: [company_land] Don't have trees grow on water XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/revisions/aeda73ec5c2c 07:12:44 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Feature #6032 (Closed): Graphics for Fibre Crop Farm XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6032#change-16295 07:12:45 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3724:331a647b2f36: Change: provide correct graphics and lay... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/331a647b2f36 07:16:25 <Brot6> firs: update from r3723 to r3724 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3724 07:28:50 *** ODM has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:31:09 *** Zuu has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 07:36:37 *** Jam35 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:06:13 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 224:44eb3bde67e6: Doc: Wrap readme at 80 characters and info about roc... XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/revisions/44eb3bde67e6 08:06:32 *** Alberth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 08:26:31 <planetmaker> Alberth, can I borrow you translation service for two strings? 08:26:33 <planetmaker> STR_NAME_OBJCLASS_LANDSCAPE :Landscape elements 08:26:42 <planetmaker> STR_NAME_ROCKY_LAND :Rocky land 08:27:19 <Alberth> Landschapelementen and Rotsachtig land 08:27:29 <planetmaker> thanks :-) 08:27:37 <Alberth> Hmm. make that Landschapselementen 08:28:04 <Alberth> ugh, translating to Dutch is difficult 08:28:36 <planetmaker> :-) The meaning is like natural landscape elements. Contrary to what is usually created by humans 08:28:47 <planetmaker> at least currently... only rocks in there :-) 08:30:27 <Alberth> it definitely rocks, thus :) 08:30:35 <planetmaker> :) 08:30:37 <Brot6> OpenGFX+ Landscape - Revision 225:5a267d8d74dc: Update: Dutch translation (Alberth) XplanetmakerX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ogfx-landscape/repository/revisions/5a267d8d74dc 08:30:57 <Rubidium> tss... shouldn't eints do that? ;) 08:31:11 <planetmaker> I became inspired by some of the NewGRFs in the crash report I looked at yesterday 08:31:21 <planetmaker> And I thought I can do "better" rocky tiles :-) 08:34:00 <Alberth> other natural obstacles are kind of hard 08:34:29 <planetmaker> what do you think of? 08:34:49 <Rubidium> Johanna 08:35:09 <Alberth> that's quite the problem, what other forms are there than rocks? :) 08:35:36 <Alberth> perhaps a deep canyon, or a long rock in the sea 08:35:37 <planetmaker> lakes. Different rocks. bumpy terrain. 08:36:40 <planetmaker> should we know her, Rubidium ? :-) 08:38:04 <planetmaker> Alberth, it would likely go a long way, if there would be some kind of randomness in the existing ground tile types 08:38:35 <planetmaker> not sure whether it should be a per-tile and a per-region (like ~10x10-sized areas) or so. Possibly both 08:39:26 <Alberth> would you see per-region if you also do per-tile? 08:40:31 <planetmaker> depends on how done. 08:41:07 <planetmaker> For example: My imagination for that would be, that I could slightly vary the looks of the grass per tile. And maybe slightly change colour as per region or so 08:41:22 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it was a beached whale, that caused a media frenzy 08:41:27 <planetmaker> as to reflect different soil, different grass 08:41:42 <Rubidium> and was formerly known as Johannes, but autopsy told them it was female 08:41:49 <planetmaker> he 08:43:27 <Alberth> would make great eye-candy, or a fun disaster :p 08:44:05 <Rubidium> well... fun 08:44:37 <Alberth> "no animals were hurt in the process of making these pixels" 08:44:53 <Rubidium> Alberth: but she was 08:45:09 <Rubidium> if she wasn't hurt, you wouldn't have the "getting the idea" part of the process 08:45:30 <Alberth> quite likely indeed 08:46:46 <Rubidium> which is exactly why all those statements about "animals weren't hurt during XYZ" are such a hypocrisy 08:49:47 <Alberth> good point 09:08:41 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1003 to r1004 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1004 09:16:57 *** gelignite has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 09:35:21 *** frosch123 has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 10:41:55 *** gelignite has quit IRC 10:45:42 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1004 to r1005 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1005 11:18:20 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1005 to r1007 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1007 13:20:14 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1007 to r1008 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1008 13:31:44 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Bug #6071 (New): Nom sprites to be changed to fixed ones Xkyosuke1989X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6071 14:15:27 *** gelignite has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 14:23:04 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Bug #6059: Dm8 and Dm9 services mixed Xkyosuke1989X @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6059#change-16301 14:52:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 15:03:42 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3725:54865687f294: Change: use FRUT as cargo label for Frui... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/54865687f294 15:04:32 <Brot6> FIRS Industry Replacement Set - Revision 3726:f03913cd81f2: Change: bump min. compatible version to ... XandythenorthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f03913cd81f2 15:04:54 <Alberth> o/ 15:06:22 <Alberth> making eints run in redmine context raised many questions on how it is actually supposed to be used 15:06:56 <Brot6> firs: update from r3724 to r3725 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3725 15:10:20 <Brot6> firs: update from r3725 to r3726 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/r3726 15:13:03 <andythenorth> o_O 15:31:00 <frosch123> yeah, we need to do a project meeting :) 15:32:03 <andythenorth> who is project manager? :P 15:32:08 <andythenorth> can they book a room? 15:32:11 * andythenorth nominates planetmaker 15:32:47 <planetmaker> room is booked. I heard you can't make it though for ridiculous reasons like RL 15:32:54 <planetmaker> :-P 15:36:44 <andythenorth> so I don't have a comprehensiv picture of what I want from eints 15:36:52 <andythenorth> I don't much like the idea of it auto-committing 15:36:56 <andythenorth> without review 15:37:06 <Alberth> for everybody, I gave andy the log of this morning :) 15:37:07 <andythenorth> although I don't review lang files anyway, so maybe that's nonsense 15:38:10 <andythenorth> I usually learn by experiment 15:38:20 <planetmaker> good, Alberth 15:38:28 <andythenorth> so once eints was runing, I was going to write a python script to pull lang files down to FIRS 15:38:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth, OpenTTD also has auto-commits daily 15:38:46 <planetmaker> as long as validation is sound and access to translators not automatic... 15:39:13 <andythenorth> if we want vcs integration for eints, we need a package for eints-vcs? 15:39:21 <andythenorth> capable of round-trip 15:39:22 <andythenorth> ? 15:39:33 <planetmaker> did you read the lengthy logs? :D 15:39:44 <frosch123> the eints -> repo thingie is not that important imo; the repo -> eints thingie is imo the critical one 15:40:25 <andythenorth> to keep eints public display in sync with trunk of the project...? 15:40:38 <andythenorth> or just for setup initially? 15:40:50 <frosch123> you can only commit to the repo if you are up-to-date (since you cannot create remote heads normally); but you want to make sure that translators translate using the most recent source 15:43:53 <Alberth> that would need a mapping of random files in the project to important/non-important, and to the iso_code associated with the file 15:44:17 <Alberth> and a format of the changes that works for every common vcs, imho 15:48:55 <andythenorth> translating most recent source = upload the master lang file 15:49:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: what if you change colour codes in translations? 15:49:38 <andythenorth> unless I do it by find and replace, I don't touch translations 15:50:04 <andythenorth> I treat them as a (possibly broken) black box 15:50:19 <frosch123> well, there are two options :) either you forbid very hard to touch any translations ever, or you import changes strings immediately into eints 15:50:54 <andythenorth> I don't want to put implementation ahead of goal, but this starts to sound like some commit hook magic is needed 15:52:08 <andythenorth> but I don't see how we know which is canonical version of a translation: eints version or repo version 15:52:16 <andythenorth> for master lang it's trivial, repo is canonical 15:52:56 <planetmaker> repo wins, if newer than last eints pull 15:53:04 <planetmaker> eints knows when it pulled 15:53:15 <Alberth> for translated languages, I can only see one sane solution, order of submitting to eints 15:54:03 <andythenorth> maybe eints should commit every time a translation is saved 15:54:13 <andythenorth> then it's in sync with repo 15:54:15 <andythenorth> more or less 15:54:16 <andythenorth> meh 15:54:31 <planetmaker> I'd not like commit on every change... 15:54:42 <planetmaker> as it saves every string, andythenorth. Or do I err? 15:57:01 <Alberth> you'll need a working copy of the repo to do a commit, I think 16:00:23 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 16:06:30 <Alberth> so what individual problems do we have in the first place? 16:06:45 <Alberth> 1. copying master language updates to eints 16:07:01 <Alberth> 2. copying translation updates back to the repo 16:07:12 <Alberth> ? 16:07:46 <Alberth> 3. copying translation updates from the repo to eints? 16:08:01 <frosch123> 4. importing existing languages from repo into eints 16:08:22 <frosch123> (existing in repo, new in eints) 16:08:26 <Alberth> 5. adding new projects 16:09:33 <Alberth> deleting stuff? or does that never (or not enough) happen? 16:10:13 <frosch123> you mean deleting translations when the string is removed from the master language? 16:11:29 <Alberth> no, that happens already, more deleting languages or projects 16:11:41 *** fanioz has quit IRC 16:11:50 <frosch123> that can already be done via the webinterface, can't it? 16:11:59 <frosch123> no need to do that automatic in some way 16:12:43 <frosch123> also adding new projects is sufficient to do manually 16:14:01 <andythenorth> ^ all of that sounds right to me 16:14:17 <andythenorth> 4. could be a manual step for most projects 16:15:02 <andythenorth> perhaps not 16:15:24 <andythenorth> Alberth: is 4 above (a) importing the files the first time on setup or (b) keeping them in sync with repo 16:15:24 <andythenorth> ? 16:15:50 <frosch123> 4 is first time, 3 is continously 16:17:08 <frosch123> creating new languages via eints might be tricky, since it does not have the meta data (# stuff) to create a new file in repo 16:17:23 <frosch123> so, i guess that always requires dev/manager action first 16:17:36 <Alberth> random other stuff (not critical for doing now) 16:17:36 <Alberth> 6. add threading support 16:17:36 <Alberth> 7. better file format for offline translating 16:17:36 <Alberth> 8. console operations 16:17:47 <frosch123> what does 6 mean? 16:17:56 <Alberth> frosch123: false, it has meta information of all languages 16:18:25 <Alberth> currently it's single threading only, which may lead to scaling problems 16:19:07 <frosch123> if it is only performance, i think you can put that way to the bottom of the list :) 16:19:40 <Alberth> I agree 16:20:36 <Alberth> although 6 and 8 may be somewhat related 16:21:02 <planetmaker> what do you mean with 'console operations'? 16:21:27 <planetmaker> scripted import and export? 16:21:34 <Alberth> not going through the https interface for talking to eints 16:21:51 <Alberth> mostly for internal eints/RM communication 16:24:12 <Alberth> but currently quite clueless how to achieve that ;) 16:24:42 <frosch123> i think using the http interface is fine 16:24:45 <Alberth> so it seems 1..3 are the most important problems? 16:24:59 <frosch123> it might use a speical user to use some slightly diferent pages or so 16:25:38 <frosch123> yeah, 1, 2 and 3 :) 16:25:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: wrt threading, from my experience of python web apps we'll be fine 16:25:56 <frosch123> that's what we need to finish the test environment 16:26:04 <andythenorth> if there's something horribly slow we can probably optimise it 16:26:29 <andythenorth> this has apache in front of it? 16:26:37 <Alberth> andythenorth: ok, let's not do that then :) 16:26:55 <andythenorth> some big python web apps are single-threaded 16:27:08 <andythenorth> the scaling strategy is to run multiple instances of the app, talking to same DB 16:27:12 <andythenorth> works fine 16:27:19 <Alberth> except we don't have a db 16:27:33 <Alberth> but a bunch of files that are cached in the instances 16:27:58 <Alberth> we could switch to a db for each project or so 16:28:17 <planetmaker> that's LOADS of DBs on the DevZone then 16:29:24 <planetmaker> but I've no clue. Maybe that's no issue 16:29:29 <andythenorth> problem for later 16:29:33 <Alberth> my main reason for a file was that I don't see how a DB can ever beat loading a file with all information straight from the disk 16:29:37 <andythenorth> I estimate 1 concurrent user at once on this 16:29:46 <andythenorth> :P 16:30:15 <Rubidium> andythenorth: concurrent in what sense? 16:30:24 <Alberth> it's stateless anyway, so as long as requests come in at a slower rate than processing, we're fine 16:30:55 <Rubidium> cause, honestly, in OpenTTD there is no concurrent vehicle movement (or is there?) 16:31:19 <Alberth> actually, there is no vehicle moving at all :p 16:31:30 <andythenorth> Rubidium: real people, with open http requests waiting to be served 16:32:01 <planetmaker> hehe... vehicle hopping 16:32:35 <Alberth> with "real people" including scripts that are executed 16:33:47 <andythenorth> how many users does web translator get concurrently? 16:34:10 <andythenorth> nvm 16:34:30 <Rubidium> with Alberth's definition of people: at least 2 16:34:36 <andythenorth> Alberth: wrt console - if it's necessary, substitute an authenticated http API instead 16:35:26 <Alberth> my guess is very few normally, if you see the number of string changes every day, unless some dev throws the string in the source upside down 16:35:54 <Alberth> ie add help texts for all advanced settings :p 16:38:50 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6074 (New): Allow copying master language updates from RM to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6074 16:38:50 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6077 (New): Allow copying translation updates back to the repo XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6077 16:39:18 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Bug #6059: Dm8 and Dm9 services mixed XallukeX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6059#change-16310 16:39:20 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6080 (New): Allow copying translation updates from the repo to eints XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6080 16:39:22 <Rubidium> Alberth: sending an email asking them to do stuff before a release will trigger the most concurrency I think 16:39:58 <Alberth> sound likely 16:40:36 <planetmaker> I can confirm that observation 16:41:02 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6083 (New): Importing existing languages from repo into eints (initial impo... XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6083 16:41:37 <frosch123> just mail everyone a different deadline :p 16:42:05 <Rubidium> regardless, most that do something will do it right away 16:42:58 <Brot6> Webtranslator - Feature #6086 (New): Make adding new projects from RM work XAlberthX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/6086 16:43:08 <Alberth> send mail to different persons at different times :p 16:47:40 <Alberth> enough to think about, thanks all for participating 17:19:21 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1000 to r1008 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/nightlies/r1008 17:23:00 <Brot6> xussrset: compile of r1009 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/ERROR/r1009 17:23:22 <Brot6> firs: update from r3723 to r3726 done (30 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/nightlies/r3726 17:36:16 <Brot6> xussrset: compile of r1010 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/ERROR/r1010 17:39:26 <Brot6> xussrset: compile of r1012 failed - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/ERROR/r1012 17:50:40 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1008 to r1013 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1013 17:52:03 <Brot6> ogfx-landscape: update from r216 to r225 done - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/ogfx-landscape/nightlies/r225 18:41:42 <andythenorth> can we play an MP game next week to test this new FIRS economy? o_O 18:41:55 <andythenorth> tonight is too late, and I think it needs 2 nights play to get a proper test 19:28:59 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:33:07 *** dell_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:36:33 *** dell__ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:39:26 *** fanioz has quit IRC 19:40:16 <Brot6> xussrset: update from r1013 to r1014 done (4 warnings) - http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/xussrset/push/r1014 19:42:16 *** ODM has quit IRC 19:42:19 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:42:43 *** dell_ has quit IRC 19:44:11 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:45:56 *** dell__ has quit IRC 19:49:31 *** dell_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 19:55:26 *** fanioz has quit IRC 19:59:43 *** dell_ has quit IRC 20:15:08 <Brot6> Finnish Trainset - Feature #5639: Efs, Rbkt XallukeX @ http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/5639#change-16331 20:16:48 *** Alberth has left #openttdcoop.devzone 20:19:31 *** Jam35 has quit IRC 21:57:15 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:02:49 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:11:28 *** dell_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:12:19 *** fanioz has quit IRC 22:16:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:19:31 *** dell_ has quit IRC 22:22:01 *** Zuu has quit IRC 22:24:54 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:29:55 *** dell_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:33:53 *** fanioz has quit IRC 22:35:32 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:41:43 *** dell_ has quit IRC 22:54:10 *** dell_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 22:57:43 *** fanioz has quit IRC 22:58:41 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:02:51 *** dell_ has quit IRC 23:03:07 *** dell_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:08:45 *** fanioz has quit IRC 23:17:15 *** dell_ has quit IRC 23:17:40 *** dell_ has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:24:20 *** fanioz has joined #openttdcoop.devzone 23:27:52 *** dell_ has quit IRC