Log for #openttd on 27th February 2006:
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01:24:08  <C-Otto> i've just built my first main line
01:24:17  <C-Otto> with one-way signals and many many trains on it
01:24:30  <C-Otto> in the first try i ran out of money before the first station
01:24:42  <C-Otto> while building a main line through the whole map...
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06:14:01  <GauntletWizard> What're the minimum system req's?
06:14:31  <GauntletWizard> My friend is wondering if it'd work on 1) an old 486 and 2) his craptop
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06:22:16  <Buggi> yep
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06:25:14  <ThePizzaKing> System Requirements:
06:25:16  <ThePizzaKing>     * Windows 95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP
06:25:17  <ThePizzaKing>     * Minimum 133MHz or above computer (500MHz+ recommended)
06:25:19  <ThePizzaKing>     * 64MB RAM (128MB+ recommended)
06:25:21  <ThePizzaKing>     * DirectX 7 or above recommended but can run with lower version
06:25:23  <ThePizzaKing>     * 10MB free hard disk space (not including savegames and screenshots. 50MB recommended)
06:25:33  <Buggi> there's a guy in here running it on a 386
06:25:40  <ThePizzaKing> (that's for windows)
06:26:46  <GauntletWizard> coo
06:27:22  <GauntletWizard> the ram is a little hefty (for the 486) but it should run on the craptop
06:28:34  <ThePizzaKing> yeah, I wouldn't have expected that it needed that much ramm
06:30:14  <Buggi> just don't use NPF
06:30:17  <Buggi> ;)
06:30:39  <GauntletWizard> heh
06:31:39  <Tron> ThePizzaKing: wtf is this list?
06:32:23  <ThePizzaKing> what do you mean?
06:32:40  <Tron> i don't see that many lists
06:32:56  <Tron> and especially not that many written by you
06:33:26  <ThePizzaKing> I got that list from the wiki:
06:33:44  <Tron> fascinating
06:33:49  <Tron> which moron wrote that?
06:34:07  <Tron> ottd doesn't need directx at all
06:34:30  <Buggi> lol
06:34:41  <Tron> (only optionally for one of the music drivers)
06:35:31  <Tron> and even a version with debugging symbols uses less than 16mb here
06:35:57  <ThePizzaKing> heh
06:41:06  <Tron> fascinating, the wiki just died
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07:13:55  <peter1138> Darkvater: we should probably use a new feature, and use action0 for it
07:14:39  <peter1138> newstations support only handles train stations
07:14:52  <peter1138> but it should be able to handle more, i think.
07:15:02  <peter1138> just needs a type flag, i guess
07:17:06  <peter1138> it's all drawn in one place, isn't it...
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07:27:15  <Tron> peter1138: "Darkvater" is in an unattached screen session
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07:45:21  <peter1138> i know, he can read it later :)
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08:08:13  <CIA-5> tron * r3677 /trunk/ai/default/default.c:
08:08:13  <CIA-5> Remove the FindLandscapeHeightByTile()s from the default AI.
08:08:13  <CIA-5> The corresponding TileInfos look like global variables at the first glance, but always get written to before reading in each function they are used in.
08:09:53  <Celestar> morning
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08:24:36  <peter1138> morning
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08:25:18  <Celestar> morning peter1138
08:25:30  <Celestar> peter1138: communication request
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09:02:45  <peter1138> hello :)
09:02:55  <peter1138> maybe we should use email... heh
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09:28:16  <peter1138> Celestar: pong
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09:35:01  <Celestar> so what about the future of elrail people? :)
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09:35:55  <peter1138> did you do anything with the drawing code?
09:42:30  <Celestar> nope, I'm busy repairing multistop
09:42:45  <Celestar> because people are trying to send > 100 vehicles to a 6 stop station, and that's not what it was designed for
09:43:28  <Celestar> I have one minor disagreement left with NPF, if I can solve this, I can move on to elrail drawings
09:43:29  <Qball> but it's fun
09:43:39  <Celestar> Qball: that's why I am improving it.
09:44:06  <Celestar> NPF works rather badly if the direction of the current vehicle is 0, 2, 4 or 6
09:44:15  * Qball never uses busses that much, somewher ein the start of the game....
09:44:18  <Qball> a few
09:46:36  <peter1138> heh
09:47:13  <peter1138> are you making multistop work with npf again?
09:47:56  <Celestar> yes. because the current implementation is fucked up
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09:48:19  <Celestar> but the new implementation is much less hungry
09:48:44  <Qball> hi Bjarni
09:49:09  <Bjarni> hi Qball
09:49:18  <Bjarni> hmmm no Tobin
09:50:10  <Bjarni> well, he will turn up eventually to tell if my fix works so he can use fullscreen again
09:50:32  <Bjarni> somehow he should be more interested in getting it to work on HIS computer than I should. It works for me ;)
09:52:06  <Bjarni> bbl
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09:57:46  <dev|ant> peter1138: you up dude? I've got a few q's...
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09:58:39  <peter1138> i'm hiding
09:59:07  <Darkvater> morning
09:59:22  <Darkvater> hmm Celestar: Multistop with NPF? Damn...
09:59:32  <Darkvater> can't it be done pathfinder-independent?
10:00:18  <Darkvater> peter1138: my newgrf knowledge is far below par, so action## doesn't say a thing to me. I was thinking that there is not even a thing close to a state-machine and positions-table in newgrf it would need a new action
10:00:51  <peter1138> yeah, that's true
10:01:13  <peter1138> but it might be ok as a property
10:01:30  <dev|ant> i wanted to ask about newgrf
10:01:38  <dev|ant> peter1138, you're working on that?
10:02:19  <Darkvater> Celestar: 0.4.5SP1 is waiting for multistop ;)
10:04:38  <Celestar> Darkvater: working on it, requesting QUERY
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10:07:56  <Darkvater> Celestar: oh I had a question for you. Do you know how you handled the 64-bit airport_flags?
10:08:04  <Celestar> yes
10:08:05  <Darkvater> because using an enum fails :/
10:08:16  <Celestar> which enum would that be?
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10:08:37  <Celestar> the block enum?
10:09:12  <Celestar> you have to inizialize not with 1 << 5 but with 1LL << 5
10:09:25  <Celestar> that will create a "64 bit enum"
10:09:40  <Celestar> then it works
10:09:49  <Celestar> STOOPID NPF
10:10:16  <Celestar> Darkvater: it CAN be pathfinder-independent, but OPF is flawy
10:10:36  <Celestar> well, so is NPF ...
10:11:20  <Darkvater> Celestar: ah...ok
10:11:25  <Qball> there is need for nnpf
10:11:30  <Qball> or inpf
10:11:52  <Celestar> Darkvater: I CAN use Manhattan distance, but this assumes that all stops are reachable and connected
10:13:13  <Darkvater> hmm if KUDr is doing his work properly :P it uses NPF if it is on and the old one if it is off, at least I think
10:13:24  <Darkvater> so if you use NPF if it ison and manhattan if it's off?
10:14:13  <Celestar> Darkvater: as I said, neither PF works properly
10:15:10  <Darkvater> hmpf
10:15:15  <Celestar> Darkvater: but I'm working on it.
10:15:28  <peter1138> dev|ant: yes
10:15:28  <Darkvater> brb, new irssi
10:15:29  <Celestar> I can use manhattan, and assume the stops are reachable.
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10:15:47  <peter1138> dar.... do
10:16:00  <dev|ant> any way i can help?
10:16:27  <peter1138> yeah, tell my boss to let me code all day :D
10:16:47  <peter1138> what can you do?
10:16:52  <dev|ant> heh
10:16:54  <Qball> peter1138: what is his e-mail
10:17:04  <dev|ant> i don't know
10:17:08  <dev|ant> what needs doing?
10:21:48  <Celestar> Darkvater needs a lot of time to launch irssi
10:22:10  <peter1138> dev|ant: coding
10:22:18  <peter1138> dev|ant: and planning
10:22:22  <peter1138> Celestar: maybe it didn't work o_O
10:23:04  <Qball> lol
10:23:17  <Qball> DV your boss?
10:23:24  <peter1138> oh, my boss
10:23:25  <peter1138> lol
10:23:34  <Celestar> hm?
10:23:39  <Celestar> there's no boss :P
10:23:44  <Qball> gold
10:23:46  <peter1138> :)
10:23:50  <peter1138> dv can be my boss
10:23:56  <peter1138> he'd make me get on with ottd :D
10:23:59  * Vornicus needs to do some makefile magic.
10:24:08  <peter1138> unfortunately he'd need to pay me too
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10:25:18  <Vornicus> "Don!  Stop this pile at once, or I will be forced to become strong with you!"
10:26:09  <dev|ant> I can code! >:D
10:27:39  <Qball> you can?
10:29:02  <dev|ant> ok more like attempt to code
10:29:28  <Qball> I gave up on that..
10:30:22  <Qball> now I stumble around
10:31:24  <dev|ant> yeh sounds familar ;)
10:32:02  <TrueLight> Tron: G++ for x86_64 compiled just fine for 3.4.5.. I guess it was a temporary bug
10:32:50  <Celestar> ?
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10:36:10  <peter1138> dev|ant: can you read existing code?
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10:36:21  <peter1138> because documenting what we currently support would be good
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10:37:26  <dev|ant> if that's my initiation then yeh I can do that
10:37:39  <dev|ant> which files? newgrf.c?
10:38:07  <peter1138> that and newgrf_*
10:38:24  <peter1138> it's not initiation, it's something that's wanted :)
10:39:16  <dev|ant> yeh I don't mind
10:40:46  <dev|ant> what do I do when I'm done?
10:41:50  * Qball is listening to Davis, Miles - Code M.D.
10:42:33  <Celestar> how well is the newgrf code doxygenned?
10:42:55  <Qball> on a scale from 1-10.. -5?
10:43:33  <Celestar> maybe that should be done
10:43:49  * Qball is just guessing
10:47:26  <Hendikins> How's this for a joke? It would almos tbe cheaper for me to fly to LA and buy extra RAM for my machine than to have it shipped here.
10:47:48  <Hendikins> (PC2100 Registered/ECC, 2x1GB, to Australia)
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10:50:26  <DarkSSH> that's better
10:50:47  <DarkSSH> needed newer version of irssi, but couldn't compile and run on another machine
10:50:50  <DarkSSH> cause of glibc problems
10:50:54  <DarkSSH> stupid machines here :(
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10:55:36  <Celestar> yo DarkSSH
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10:58:55  <Celestar> BAH
10:59:09  <Celestar> MSVS producing everything but sane C code :S
10:59:26  <Celestar> I've never seen such utter crap
10:59:52  <Qball> if it did there wouldn't be a chalange
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11:00:17  <Celestar> MS doesn't think it is required to declare functions :S
11:00:56  <Fujitsu> Great.
11:01:00  <Qball> details
11:01:19  <Celestar> well, in foo.c you have a function that calls another function that is defined in bar.c
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11:01:35  <Celestar> there's no header file included in foo.c that decleares the called function.
11:01:41  <Celestar> you don't even get a warning :S
11:01:45  <Qball> DarkSSH: you should give peter1138 more time to code
11:01:53  <Celestar> DarkSSH: wb :P
11:03:43  <DarkSSH> Qball: what'd I do?
11:03:46  <DarkSSH> Celestar: thanks ;P
11:04:15  <DarkSSH> Celestar: are you sure? For me it says it doesn't know the function unless it's extern'd in there
11:04:34  <Qball> peter1138 told his boss should give him the whole day to cod eon openttd.. so I asked for his boss e-mail, and he gave yours
11:04:34  <Celestar> DarkSSH: it seems you have a newer version that my colleauges used to have ..
11:05:00  <Celestar> DarkSSH: do you remember that fucked up multistop game in the bug report?
11:05:16  <peter1138> dev|ant: wiki :)
11:05:52  <DarkSSH> Celestar: yes
11:05:56  <dev|ant> wiki what?
11:06:22  <Celestar> DarkSSH: well, it'S running now for 30 game-years without problems (after manually repairing it)
11:06:28  <DarkSSH> :D
11:06:34  <DarkSSH> that is a good sign
11:06:52  <Celestar> DarkSSH: and uses less CPU cycles.
11:07:08  <Qball> and makes coffee
11:07:09  <Celestar> however, it required all stops to be connected
11:07:12  <Qball> for the buss drivers
11:07:25  <DarkSSH> Celestar: what do you mean?
11:07:35  <DarkSSH> I thought they were all connected (eg in a row next to eachother)
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11:07:54  <Celestar> DarkSSH: connected means they all need to be reachable.
11:08:01  <Celestar> not side-by-side
11:08:16  <Celestar> DarkSSH: can you accept dcc at the moment?
11:08:19  <DarkSSH> ah.. weren't they all reachable?
11:08:29  <Celestar> they were.
11:08:34  <DarkSSH> hmm, yes that is a good point
11:08:35  <Celestar> but the old system was flawy
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11:08:40  <Celestar> this one is less flawy :P
11:08:55  <Celestar> bah wahts the regexp for whitespace :S
11:08:57  <DarkSSH> should a slot be allocated if the pathfinder can't find a route to that particular station?
11:09:06  <Vornicus> \w in some systems.
11:09:06  <DarkSSH> we can try DCC
11:09:17  <Celestar> DarkSSH: at the moment, it will be. because both NPF and OPF are not usable.
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11:09:26  <Vornicus> otherwise it's [ \t\n\r\v] and there may be some others in there but that will cover most things.
11:09:41  <Celestar> OPF will find a path even if there isn't one, NPF will fail for certain v->directions
11:10:12  <Vornicus> oop.  \s for Python.
11:10:22  <Vornicus> [ \t\n\r\f\v] <-- which is that.
11:10:57  <Celestar> ah \b is helpful for grep :)
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11:16:16  <dev|ant> peter1138: I just realised, you want me to update the wiki?
11:16:18  <dev|ant> like, all of it?!?
11:16:51  <peter1138> no...
11:17:01  <peter1138> add new bits relating to newgrf
11:17:12  <peter1138> hmm, dunno what section that should be under, though
11:17:55  <peter1138> i don't think there is anything stating the current support of newgrf, just a basic list of what grfs work (and even that's wrong)
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11:19:53  <dev|ant> ok, I'll give it a go
11:23:24  <Tron> DarkSSH: ?
11:23:29  <DarkSSH> yes?
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11:24:54  <DarkSSH> peter1138: but how does he know what features are in and what not? Scourge the code?
11:25:14  * Celestar is planning holidays for 2006
11:27:55  <peter1138> DarkSSH: that's why i asked if he can read existing code :)
11:28:03  <DarkSSH> :)
11:28:15  <peter1138> it should be simple enough for properties
11:29:17  * peter1138 ponders newstations / airport support
11:29:38  <peter1138> wonder if irregular airports would be possible
11:29:59  <peter1138> well, gaps instead of x by y
11:30:20  <DarkSSH> I think so, yes. It just depends on how you want it
11:30:27  <DarkSSH> optical illusion or true gaps
11:30:29  <Tron> DarkSSH: you don't need to terminate a program while building/installing a newer version. files may get unlinked even if they are in use
11:30:31  <peter1138> well
11:30:45  <peter1138> should be easy enough using a special value in the layout description
11:31:02  <peter1138> just skip changing the tile if it's that value
11:31:14  <DarkSSH> Tron: I compiled it on another machine, thought it was done and deleted the old one. But then it was missing perl support, then glibc bla bla.
11:31:19  <peter1138> of course, you'd have to assume the FTA was valid and avoided the gap
11:31:28  <DarkSSH> :)
11:31:58  <DarkSSH> it also needs work at the station-coverage area handling
11:32:10  <DarkSSH> which btw is still not really working for train-stations ;)
11:32:11  <Tron> don't worry about the station coverage
11:32:22  <Tron> it's so totally fucked up, i can't get worse
11:33:18  <DarkSSH> I was thinking of a linkage-system for coverage. Eg each station has links to surrounding tiles of interest and checks those.
11:33:27  <DarkSSH> Although with towns this may become quite big :)
11:33:41  <Celestar> DarkSSH: did you test? :)
11:34:37  <DarkSSH> sorry, not yet, just had a glance at the diff
11:35:13  <DarkSSH> which brings up something which I wondered about for a time. Is it possible to change the DEBUG() macro to print out dbg: ms: bla or something
11:35:18  <DarkSSH> eg automatically the category
11:35:33  <DarkSSH> I haven't found a way short of doing DEBUG(category, level, message)
11:35:34  <Tron> yes
11:36:19  <Tron> <@DarkSSH> I haven't found a way short of doing DEBUG(category, level, message) <--- ?
11:36:43  <peter1138> i can't remember; what happens at the moment with station coverage?
11:37:13  <Tron> it's quasi the convex rectangular hull of all station tiles involved + the maximum radius
11:37:28  <peter1138> er, ok
11:37:34  <Tron> SSS
11:37:35  <Tron> SSS
11:37:38  <Tron>   S
11:37:39  <Tron>   S
11:37:46  <Tron> if that is a station
11:37:49  <Tron> the area is
11:37:51  <Tron> AAA
11:37:51  <Tron> AAA
11:37:52  <Tron> AAA
11:37:53  <Tron> AAA
11:37:55  <peter1138> right
11:37:58  <peter1138> i thought that
11:38:15  <peter1138> from looking there in the past, but didn't actually check that's what it is
11:38:17  <Tron> + the max(radius_of_all_station_types_involved)
11:38:39  <peter1138> hmm
11:38:42  <peter1138> yes, that's horrible
11:39:19  <peter1138> that means a roadstop positioned 10 tiles away but connected to an international airport has a catchment of 8 tiles...?
11:39:33  <DarkSSH> station-walking
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11:39:38  <peter1138> indeed
11:39:47  <Tron> it
11:39:53  <Tron> it's even more than station walking
11:40:35  <Tron> all tiles between the airport and the roadstop count as station tiles, too, for calculation the catchment
11:40:55  <peter1138> so
11:40:57  <peter1138> SSS
11:40:58  <peter1138>
11:40:58  <peter1138>
11:41:00  <peter1138> R
11:41:02  <peter1138> appears as
11:41:05  <peter1138> AAA
11:41:07  <peter1138> AAA
11:41:10  <peter1138> AAA
11:41:12  <peter1138> AAA
11:41:15  <peter1138> ?
11:41:16  <Tron> yes
11:41:17  <peter1138> (assuming my empty lines came out)
11:41:20  <Celestar> well. we need to addresss this issue later :)
11:41:35  <Vornicus> aaaaaaaaa!
11:41:42  <Celestar> first I'll fix MS, then elrails.
11:41:50  <Celestar> DarkSSH: did you get my statement about 64 bit enums for you?
11:41:54  * DarkSSH forwards to next year :)
11:41:58  <DarkSSH> Celestar: yes, thanks 1LL
11:42:00  <Tron> Celestar: 64bit enums?
11:42:57  <Celestar> Tron: for extended airport flags
11:43:14  <Celestar> enum { foo = 1 << 47 }; fails
11:43:21  <DarkSSH> hmm
11:43:23  <DarkSSH> c:\Documents and Settings\tomi\Desktop\ottd-dev\airport_movement.h(84): warning C4341: 'HANGAR2_AREA_block' : signed value is out of range for enum constant
11:43:25  <Tron> my horrible portability problems sense is tingling
11:43:27  <DarkSSH> with LL
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11:43:56  <Celestar> DarkSSH: 1 << 47LL or (1 << 47)LL ?
11:44:09  <Tron> the latter is a syntax error
11:44:23  <Celestar> Tron: you never know with MS compilers :P
11:44:24  <DarkSSH> 1LL << 47
11:44:40  * Celestar resumes a little bit of work
11:44:54  <DarkSSH> he, the other way around :P
11:44:57  <peter1138> work. yes. i was doing that :)
11:45:15  <DarkSSH> this is weird, msvc2003 doesn't complain about 1<<47, vc2005's error-counter jumps off the roof
11:45:41  <hylje> you know microsoft
11:45:54  <hylje> their word documents arent even backwards compatible
11:47:55  <DarkSSH> Celestar: even 1<<47LL is not accepted by msvc2005
11:48:19  * Celestar thinks Darkvater will need 2 32 bit fields :)
11:48:41  <DarkSSH> that'd suck to code..never know which one to take
11:48:54  <DarkSSH> unless the second one has bit31 set or something to tell
11:48:57  <Celestar> terminals field 1, rest field 2 :)
11:49:06  <DarkSSH> hmm
11:49:30  <DarkSSH> that is a bit of a waste because you're rather first run out of fields
11:49:31  <Celestar> what does MSKB say about 64 bit enums?
11:49:37  <DarkSSH> bullcrap
11:49:43  <DarkSSH> *nothing*
11:49:48  <Celestar> great :S
11:50:07  <Celestar> hm .. why a bitfield anyway and not a just a numbeR?
11:50:13  <DarkSSH> they don't even talk about 8bit-enums or anything. Just default enum is 32bits
11:50:17  <Celestar> terminal 1 = 1, terminal 2 = 2, terminal 3 = 3 ...
11:50:32  <DarkSSH> because some airports need to check more than 1 block at the same time
11:50:32  <DarkSSH> so
11:50:41  <DarkSSH> RUNWAY|LANDING
11:50:42  <DarkSSH> or whatever
11:50:46  <DarkSSH> you can't do that with numbers
11:50:48  <Celestar> oh right
11:50:54  <Celestar> forgot about that case
11:50:55  <DarkSSH> yes, I tried something like that
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11:58:56  <Celestar> I'll do some work for a bit.
12:03:02  <Celestar> DarkSSH: the game-in-question is still running without lockups
12:04:21  <Celestar> bah people how do I print a station name in a debug statement?!
12:06:46  <DarkSSH> GetStringWithArgs(buf, STR_STATION, st->index)
12:06:55  <DarkSSH> DEBUG(bla) ("%s", buf)
12:07:01  <Celestar> ah
12:07:04  <Tron> TrueLight: good
12:07:12  <Celestar> hm?
12:07:16  <DarkSSH> DEBUG(bla) ("%s", GetString....)
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12:09:22  <TrueLight> k, all targets besides MacOSX now have g++ compilers
12:09:32  <DarkSSH> hehe
12:09:39  <DarkSSH> you got on the C++ wagon?
12:09:55  *** Netsplit <-> quits: Triffid_Hunter, stefan, Tron_
12:10:06  <TrueLight> I hate c++
12:10:10  <TrueLight> really really really hate C++
12:10:19  <DarkSSH> so why do it? :)
12:10:32  <Celestar> DarkSSH: 320fps :P
12:10:33  <TrueLight> I wanted to know why it failed, but with the latest GCC it doesn't
12:10:41  <DarkSSH> ^^
12:10:56  <peter1138> now we don't have a technical excuse to not have c++ code... ;)
12:11:08  <Celestar> is C++ really SO bad?
12:11:33  <peter1138> dunno
12:11:46  <TrueLight> Celestar: yes
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12:12:00  <TrueLight> peter1138: we do, MacOSX :)
12:12:10  <TrueLight> MacOSX compiling is a bitch (no automated shit for that)
12:13:53  <peter1138> ah
12:13:58  <peter1138> who uses OS X anyway?
12:14:01  <eQualizer> Does replacing vehicles disable autorenew on them? Because replaced old busses to new ones, all in one, and now they doesn't renew themselfs automaticly.
12:14:52  <peter1138> it shouldn't do, but it may be a bug
12:14:58  * Vornicus uses osx.
12:15:14  <Vornicus> and, um.
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12:15:36  <Vornicus> I have g++ on my machine.
12:15:46  * Tobin waves at peter1138
12:15:56  <Tobin> Us Mac users are over here.
12:16:07  <Vornicus> what's wrong with it?
12:18:55  <Tobin> What's wrong with what?
12:19:13  <Tobin> Bjarni: I haven't tried that fix yet.
12:19:22  *** Netsplit over, joins: Triffid_Hunter, Tron_, stefan
12:20:20  <dev|ant> peter1138: so I don't have to traul through code all over the place, is action 0x01 fully supported, or only partial?
12:20:55  <peter1138> fully i think. there's not much to that one.
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12:21:42  <dev|ant> cool, thanks!
12:21:49  <Vornicus> what's wrong with compiling the mac build under g++?  It /is/ right there.
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12:22:50  <Tron> Vornicus: TrueLight is talking about making a cross compiler
12:23:12  <Vornicus> oh.
12:23:15  <Tron> the compiler per se is not the problem i guess, rather the necessary headers and libs
12:23:27  <Vornicus> So he can build for Mac on something else.
12:23:30  <Vornicus> Got it.
12:23:31  <TrueLight> checking for i386-pc-linux-gnu-ld... /usr/powerpc-apple-darwin/bin/powerpc-apple-darwin-ld
12:23:35  <TrueLight> Lol! Something is broken ;)
12:24:02  <Vornicus> uh-huh.
12:24:16  <Tron> so... i386 is powerpc, linux is darwin and gnu is apple, i knew all along!
12:26:04  <TrueLight> the funniest part is, that I tell him the host is i386-pc-linux-gnu
12:26:04  * Tobin needs to stop posting off-topic responses to silly people on the forums
12:27:12  *** Xeryus|school is now known as XeryusTC
12:27:42  <Tron> TrueLight: --host --target --sister --third-degree-cousin is all set correctly?
12:28:00  <TrueLight> --sister, lol :)
12:29:42  <Tron> Tobin: he's a troll, ignore him
12:30:14  <Tobin> Tron: Do clueless people count as trolls?
12:30:32  <Tobin> I shouldn't bite regardless though. Bad me. :(
12:31:02  <Tron> on the other hand... if you say nothing, stupidity wins
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12:31:09  <Tron> it's a lose-lose situation
12:31:46  <TrueLight> checking for i386-pc-linux-gnu-ld... /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-pc-linux-gnu/3.3.6/../../../../i386-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld
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12:31:54  <TrueLight> it really has problems detecting, but it found it ;)
12:35:31  * Vornicus decides he should register for the TT forums.
12:36:33  *** Mucht|work [] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
12:37:02  * Vornicus does so.
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12:42:27  <TrueLight> Assembler messages:
12:42:27  <TrueLight> Fatal error: invalid listing option `r'
12:42:28  <TrueLight> LOL!
12:44:18  <Vornicus> sucktastic.
12:44:35  <TrueLight> really clear error reporting :)
12:46:02  <TrueLight> and I really really don't get that error :)
12:46:24  <TrueLight> 	/var/tmp/cross/powerpc-apple-darwin/gcc-build/gcc/xgcc -B/var/tmp/cross/powerpc-apple-darwin/gcc-build/gcc/ -B/usr/powerpc-apple-darwin/powerpc-apple-darwin/bin/ -B/usr/powerpc-apple-darwin/powerpc-apple-darwin/lib/ -isystem /usr/powerpc-apple-darwin/powerpc-apple-darwin/include -isystem /usr/powerpc-apple-darwin/powerpc-apple-darwin/sys-include -DIN_GCC -DCROSS_COMPILE   -W -Wall -Wwrite-strings -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wold-style
12:46:24  <TrueLight>   -c ../../gcc-5250/gcc/config/darwin-crt2.c -o crt2.o
12:46:24  <TrueLight> Assembler messages:
12:46:24  <TrueLight> Fatal error: invalid listing option `r'
12:46:26  <TrueLight> :s
12:47:11  * Vornicus has never actually heard of that one.
12:52:16  <peter1138> hmm, new airport
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12:59:57  * dev|ant dies
13:00:07  <dev|ant> newgrf is horrible
13:00:11  <dev|ant> the code isn't bad
13:00:20  <dev|ant> but the specification is tragic
13:01:05  <peter1138> it's evolution, heh
13:01:30  <dev|ant> * For 2.0, r=7 and for 2.0.1 series, r=10 due to an oversight which used r=1..4 for 2.0 beta 1..4.
13:01:35  <dev|ant> riiiiiiiiiight....
13:02:24  <TrueLight> 	/usr/powerpc-apple-darwin/bin/powerpc-apple-darwin-libtool: can't locate file for: -lm
13:02:24  <TrueLight> /usr/powerpc-apple-darwin/bin/powerpc-apple-darwin-libtool: file: -lm is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
13:02:28  <TrueLight> it is getting more fun every moment :)
13:03:45  <TrueLight> -lm is not an object file (not allowed in a library)
13:03:47  <TrueLight> is it just me
13:03:56  <TrueLight> or is that error stupid? :p
13:04:22  *** dev|ant [] has quit ["night all"]
13:04:31  <peter1138> heh
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13:06:20  *** iridium`nh is now known as iridium
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13:08:04  <TrueLight> Tron / Bjarni: okay, powerpc-apple-darwin (MacOSX) has g++ too. So the nightly system now can handle C++. I won't advise to use it anywhere in OpenTTD, but okay...
13:08:18  <TrueLight> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.user_data[1u]' may be used uninitialized in this function
13:08:18  <TrueLight> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.user_data[0u]' may be used uninitialized in this function
13:08:18  <TrueLight> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.direction' may be used uninitialized in this function
13:08:18  <TrueLight> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.tile' may be used uninitialized in this function
13:08:18  <TrueLight> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.best_trackdir' may be used uninitialized in this function
13:08:18  <TrueLight> ===> Compiling
13:08:51  <peter1138> o_O
13:09:13  * peter1138 ponders some style changes in newgrf.c
13:09:47  <TrueLight> Bjarni: ping
13:10:08  <peter1138> removing redundant braces and temporary vars
13:11:41  <peter1138> (i.e newgrf.c:342-346 instead of 334-340, (but with c-style comments))
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13:28:39  <Kalpa> Teehee
13:32:29  <peter1138> what?
13:35:07  * peter1138 fucks around with xslt
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13:36:17  <Tron> TrueLight: yay
13:37:39  *** Tobin_ [] has joined #openttd
13:42:27  <TrueLight> just stupid gcc now compiled some libs with g++, and if I now try to compile openttd with gcc, it complains
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13:42:28  <TrueLight> :s
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14:33:20  <Tron> TrueLight: which compiler versions did you get working?
14:34:03  <TrueLight> 3.4.5
14:34:07  <TrueLight> and for OSX 4.0.1
14:34:31  <Tron> good, good
14:34:52  <TrueLight> very good indeed :)
14:34:58  <TrueLight> OSX only currently fails
14:35:02  <TrueLight> LibSDL is out-dated
14:35:07  <TrueLight> and then ... strange things happen :p
14:36:23  <TrueLight> Anyone in here has a MSVC system to borrow for a small compilation for us?
14:36:24  <Tron> strange things like spacetime rolling up into itself?
14:36:42  <TrueLight> on OSX things depend very narrow on eachother
14:36:47  <TrueLight> and SDL hacks around to make things to work
14:36:49  <TrueLight> really ugly
14:37:28  <DarkSSH> TrueLight: dedicated or just copy over source and compile?
14:37:51  <TrueLight> DarkSSH: just a single file
14:37:57  <TrueLight> totally non-related to anything
14:38:00  <TrueLight> a single program
14:38:01  <DarkSSH> sure, I'm here
14:39:06  <TrueLight> k, nonSDL version works perfect for OSX :)
14:39:06  <TrueLight> hehe
14:44:34  <TrueLight> Tron: you most likely know thisone: does GCC define GCC to check on? (#ifdef GCC) for all versions?
14:46:20  <Tron> TrueLight:
14:46:52  <Tron> __GNUC__ should be the magic word
14:47:03  <TrueLight> tnx :)
14:49:39  <Tron> np
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15:06:34  <Jang-> anyone got experience with 1and1 as a webhost?
15:06:42  <BurtyB> *shudder*
15:07:02  <Jang-> that from experience?
15:07:23  <BurtyB> from hearing people complain they cant contact them when things go pearshaped
15:07:38  <BurtyB> they are like the uk2 or .de
15:07:43  <BurtyB> or=of
15:08:17  <Jang-> i see
15:08:42  <Jang-> you recommend anyone?
15:09:10  <Jang-> i need someone who isn't too pricy on SSL certificates, manages to use .htaccess properly and allows system() commands in php
15:09:21  <Jang-> oh, and i'll be using > 5gb
15:09:37  <hylje> porno site? ;p
15:09:43  <Jang-> no
15:09:58  <BurtyB> shame
15:11:11  <BurtyB> I'd say give a poke
15:12:18  <hylje> get a ssl cert from eBay, run the php on your home broadband and abuse free hosting services for the larger files
15:12:21  <hylje> :D
15:12:45  <Jang-> heh
15:12:57  <TrueLight> glx, Belugas, egladil, LOTP and Rubidium: all 5 now have access to OpenTTD/trunk. Have fun, and make it good!
15:12:59  <Jang-> is catalyst2 uk-based?
15:13:09  <BurtyB> Jang- yeah
15:13:17  <Jang-> k
15:13:42  *** glx [] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox]"]
15:13:54  <hylje> glx ran
15:14:37  <Jang-> hmm, they don't seem to cater for the medium size market
15:15:21  <Jang-> largest hosting deal they do is 1250mb
15:15:46  <hylje> around here is one service whose _smallest_ deal is 2gb
15:15:59  <hylje> and its not even expensive
15:16:04  <BurtyB> yup at that point I'd say its more effective to buy a VPS
15:16:49  <Jang-> hmm, that would involve actually admining it
15:17:12  <Jang-> just looking at vps 2
15:17:19  <DarkSSH> KUDr: how's PBS coming along?
15:17:42  <Jang-> i get less diskspace and data transfer for about £10/month more, compared to the big guys
15:17:51  *** XeryusTC [] has quit ["So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish"]
15:18:01  <BurtyB> Jang- to be honest you get what you pay for
15:18:04  <hylje> :>
15:18:24  <Jang-> i can appreciate that, but also i don't want a bunch of stuff i don't need, and am still paying for
15:18:25  <Jang-> :)
15:18:36  <BurtyB> Jang- if you know exactly what you want post in the req forum on and someone will most likely offer you it for 10p/decade
15:18:48  <Jang-> heh
15:19:15  <BurtyB> most of the web hosts on there are sane (me included :D)
15:20:52  <hylje> what about the insane ones
15:20:57  <hylje> wouldnt they give the cheapest
15:21:26  <BurtyB> they would but they would most likely run off with your money, or you'd have to change your DNS when their NTL cable got a new IP :P
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15:35:24  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r3678 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF Codechange: remove redundant braces and temporary variables.
15:36:07  <KUDr_wrk> [16:15:16] <DarkSSH> KUDr: how's PBS coming along? <- still dealing with pathfinder independency
15:37:14  *** iridium is now known as iridium`nh
15:37:48  <DarkSSH> KUDr_wrk: must be a bitch :/
15:38:05  <KUDr_wrk> yeah
15:38:18  <KUDr_wrk> ntp doesn't record path
15:38:29  <KUDr_wrk> seems to be totally unsuitable for pbs
15:38:48  <KUDr_wrk> and nfs is terribly slow
15:39:30  <DarkSSH> I wonder how the patch did it for their pathfinder then because that doesn't record path either at all
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15:49:11  <Bjarni> can somebody translate this to something that makes sense?
15:49:13  <Bjarni> It would like to know as to become the compatible game with windows xp, therefore, when trying to play always is required door COM2 and COM4.  It forgives me for the errors of English,
15:49:22  <Bjarni> I got it in an Email today
15:50:24  <Tron> door? sounds like a translator
15:50:41  <Tron> COM2/4 strongly sounds like TTD(Patch)
15:50:42  <DarkSSH> MiHaMiX: how's the new translator coming along?
15:50:58  <DarkSSH> yep
15:52:20  <peter1138> DarkSSH: the patch has a limit of 7 junction tiles in a pbs block
15:52:25  <peter1138> DarkSSH: i suspect that's related
15:54:47  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: probably yes
15:56:10  <Bjarni> Tobin: I sent you a PM on the forum. Please test that diff
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16:01:13  * peter1138 mutters at having to do work
16:01:15  <peter1138> it's terrible
16:01:52  * Tron pities peter1138
16:02:31  *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away
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16:19:41  <SpComb> woah
16:19:50  <SpComb> ThePizzaKing's webpage is mad
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16:20:52  <SpComb> it killed my firefox :O
16:21:00  <snes_rocks> how do you kill firefox?
16:21:11  <snes_rocks> rather, how does a webpage do it?
16:21:14  <SpComb> I clicked on the flash something link
16:21:18  <Noldo> snes_rocks: make it segfault or abort or something like that
16:21:20  <SpComb> and it had a fatal error
16:21:33  <snes_rocks> my firefox sometimes randomly crashed, and then i got and its better
16:21:38  <snes_rocks> but it wasn't on any particular page
16:23:24  * XeryusTC is happy with Opera
16:24:09  * SpComb reminds people about
16:24:20  <SpComb> hah
16:24:26  <SpComb> look at my random quote :/
16:25:02  <Kalpa> Aargh, aargh
16:25:49  <Kjetil> What is this shit ? I am not on the list
16:26:24  * Kjetil goes to the angry room
16:26:26  <SpComb> did you talk before? this morning?
16:26:29  <SpComb> -?
16:26:52  <SpComb>|Kjetil
16:26:54  <SpComb> obviously not
16:27:04  <Kjetil> nop
16:27:16  <DarkSSH> lol
16:27:18  * Kjetil has been inactive lately
16:27:19  <DarkSSH> this is gold
16:27:22  <DarkSSH> "Tron didn't know that much either. 19.3% of his/her lines were questions. "
16:27:38  <Kjetil> There you have it.. Tron is a tard
16:27:41  <SpComb> it's a bit quick to come to a conclusion
16:27:47  <SpComb> claims I have a stuck caps lock
16:27:59  <SpComb> well, shift key
16:28:08  *** sw4y [] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."]
16:28:17  <SpComb> my shift key is hanging, in fact, but it's sticky in that it's hard to press down on it
16:29:08  <XeryusTC> heh, i'm in the stats
16:29:11  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|food
16:29:15  * Xeryus|food is eten
16:29:21  <SpComb> everyone is in the stats
16:29:22  <peter1138> by a grue?
16:29:36  <SpComb> because you are such lazy people and don't talk enough to actually knock people with 1 line off the stats
16:29:46  * Xeryus|food slaps SpComb
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16:34:03  <tefad> grue! eehehe
16:34:07  *** tokai|noir [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
16:34:43  <SpComb>
16:34:44  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
16:34:50  <SpComb> wah.
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16:47:06  <DarkSSH> KUDr_wrk: remember, small patches are better than big ones :)
16:47:30  <DarkSSH> KUDr_wrk: at least if you are out you want the design to work and it doesn't change with every commit :p
16:48:26  <KUDr_wrk> yes, but it should stay compilable or not? Many gus uses this branch for playing
16:48:46  <KUDr_wrk> gus->guys
16:49:23  <DarkSSH> KUDr_wrk: the branch is yours. I don't hink it has to be compilable all the time because it is under heavy development. It's an 'experimental branch' no?
16:49:34  <DarkSSH> of course this is up to you
16:50:02  <DarkSSH> it is not like trunk/ where they eat your head off if you get a single warning on an OS you have never heard of :P
16:50:35  <KUDr_wrk> yes. Sometimes i am thinking about making new branch without PBS at all and start again
16:51:58  <peter1138> heh
16:52:01  <KUDr_wrk> now I must delete lot of C-- stuff doing workaround for not having C++
16:52:14  <peter1138> it would be nice if Bjarni mentioned warnings without having to prise them out...
16:52:16  <KUDr_wrk> it is hardly readable
16:52:28  <DarkSSH> should we tell him the nightly supports C++ now?
16:52:42  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: i wondered about that when you first started
16:52:55  <peter1138> starting from scratch that is
16:53:18  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: yes, now I see it. There will be nothing from the old PBS code
16:54:50  *** tokai|noir [] has joined #openttd
16:57:09  * KUDr_wrk wants to go home
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16:57:17  <peter1138> maybe we can create a new branch from the current svn...
16:57:18  <peter1138> doh
16:58:28  <CIA-5> bjarni * r3679 /trunk/os/macosx/Makefile.setup: -Fix: [OSX] fixed warning introduced in r3670 about permission denied in G5_detector.c when compiling without having Makefile.config
17:03:16  *** snes_rocks [] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:04:03  <Bjarni> peter1138: here is a complete list of warnings that I get:
17:04:04  <Bjarni> npf.c: In function 'NPFRouteToDepotTrialError':
17:04:04  <Bjarni> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.user_data[1u]' may be used uninitialized in this function
17:04:04  <Bjarni> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.user_data[0u]' may be used uninitialized in this function
17:04:04  <Bjarni> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.direction' may be used uninitialized in this function
17:04:06  <Bjarni> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.node.tile' may be used uninitialized in this function
17:04:08  <Bjarni> npf.c:769: warning: 'best_result.best_trackdir' may be used uninitialized in this function
17:05:14  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:05:43  *** Mucht|work [] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
17:06:14  <Bjarni> I don't know why I didn't get them before, but all of a sudden they showed up even though nobody modified the file
17:06:18  <Bjarni> no one to blame :/
17:07:52  <Bjarni> and somehow I don't want to mess with npf
17:08:37  <peter1138> sounds like the orders one
17:09:23  <peter1138> but "didn't get them before" ... before what?
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17:13:46  <Bjarni> before something happened that made them show
17:13:57  <Bjarni> the question is what that change was
17:14:04  *** tokai [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:16:12  <Bjarni> blathijs: do you have any idea why those warnings showed up on their own?
17:19:34  *** Born_Acorn [] has joined #openttd
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17:22:46  <blathijs> Bjarni: I was looking at them, but I got distracted
17:22:50  <blathijs> remind me after dinner
17:22:52  * blathijs afk
17:24:23  <Bjarni> interesting. When I make a debug build, the warnings go away
17:24:34  <CIA-5> tron * r3680 /trunk/road_cmd.c:
17:24:34  <CIA-5> Fix some magic numbers which got damaged in r1768
17:24:34  <CIA-5> -Fix: Correctly restore the roadside after roadworks are finished
17:24:52  <peter1138> 1768!
17:24:54  <Tron> Bjarni: DEBUG=3?
17:24:57  <Bjarni> yeah
17:25:00  <Tron> peter1138: yes, 1768
17:25:03  <peter1138> ouch :)
17:25:31  <Tron> Bjarni: DEBUG=3 -> -O0 -> most dataflow analysis aren't run
17:25:49  <Bjarni> ahh, that could explain it
17:25:50  <Vornicus> That's a long-standing magic number problem.
17:25:53  <Vornicus> looong-standing.
17:26:00  <Vornicus> When was r1768?
17:26:17  <peter1138> feb 2005 :)
17:26:24  <Tron> %svn log -qr 1768
17:26:24  <Tron> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
17:26:24  <Tron> r1768 | celestar | 2005-02-02 15:17:13 +0100 (Mi, 02 Feb 2005)
17:26:41  <Vornicus> a year-old bug, even.
17:26:42  <Vornicus> wow.
17:27:55  <Bjarni> once in a while we discover a bug that have always been in the source, but nobody noticed
17:28:00  <Bjarni> it's pretty rare though
17:31:40  *** Xeryus|food is now known as XeryusTC
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17:38:35  * KUDr is at home now
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17:43:05  <DarkSSH> KUDr: wb
17:44:01  <KUDr> DarkSSH: should i start again from fresh branch?
17:45:15  <DarkSSH> hmm I guess rewriting (parts) of NPF can result in quite a mess with PBS all through it
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17:46:10  <KUDr> i would like to play with new npf-based pathfinder that will be as flexible as npf, but as fast as ntp
17:46:20  * DarkSSH starts to drool
17:46:57  <peter1138> heh
17:46:58  <KUDr> but it will be C++
17:47:07  <KUDr> some devs will not like me
17:47:19  <DarkSSH> you'll have to wait a tiny bit more with that
17:47:40  <KUDr> but using templates is the only way
17:47:49  <DarkSSH> I need confirmation from TL as to how the C++ crosscompiler is working
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17:48:05  <DarkSSH> because if it is NOT working correctly it's a waste to make it in C++.
17:48:14  <DarkSSH> at least, making anything that wants to be in trunk
17:48:54  <KUDr> "[14:06:01] <TrueLight> Tron / Bjarni: okay, powerpc-apple-darwin (MacOSX) has g++ too. So the nightly system now can handle C++. I won't advise to use it anywhere in OpenTTD, but okay..."
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17:49:44  <DarkSSH> hmm
17:49:47  <DarkSSH> anyone objecting?
17:49:53  <KUDr> I don't know how important it is to cross-compile for all platforms (it is magic for me)
17:50:17  <hylje> every platform has gentoo so sources should be enough ;p
17:50:20  <DarkSSH> it is VERY important. but if he swears it works :)
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17:50:59  <DarkSSH> Tron / peter1138 / Bjarni : comments on C++-izing
17:51:50  <KUDr> we should wait for TL I guess
17:52:12  <KUDr> so he can tell: "C++ suks"
17:53:18  <DarkSSH> KUDr: ok, i asked him, and if he says "yes it works, but it sucks", I'm not against it
17:53:35  <KUDr> but anyway if it will be isolated branch, it can fail for many reasons. And if not, somebody can rewrite it back to "C"
17:54:06  <DarkSSH> hehe, 'somebody', yes :)
17:54:58  <KUDr> all will depend on the result - function&speed
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18:02:01  <ector> i'd say, make the thing compile under both C and C++ for now. that way he can't complain. Then perhaps start easing in C++ stuff in the future...
18:02:29  <ector> and you still get the extra type checking benefits immediately
18:02:52  <Belugas> Speaking of branching...
18:03:33  <Belugas> Any objections at the creation of branch/tfc_newmap ?
18:03:47  <KUDr> ector: but if want to improve NPF to the same speed as NTP, then i see the only one way: templatize aystar
18:04:24  <DarkSSH> Belugas: motion passed
18:06:08  <ector> maybe so, though you should be careful with templates...    and my suggestion was a way to ease the C++ thought into the minds of the main devs in preparation for actually using real C++ features :P
18:06:12  <DarkSSH> peter1138: <-- your doing? Roadstop assertion
18:06:45  <peter1138> o_O
18:07:28  <KUDr> ector: then I can try it "outside svn" and bring it back later
18:08:32  <peter1138> yes. *sigh*.
18:08:32  <ector> yeah, I guess. But a patch that just makes it compile with C++ too would be good for the main trunk, and make your patch size more managable
18:09:47  <KUDr> ector: not sure if it is the best way
18:10:24  <KUDr> once it will use C++ features then no more C--
18:10:42  <ector> well I mean just fixing all the casts and things like that
18:10:48  <ector> put that in the main trunk
18:10:53  <ector> and THEN start using C++ in your branch
18:12:14  <peter1138> i'm against wholesale conversion of c -> c++ just for the sake of conversion...
18:12:29  <KUDr> yes, this would be good (and I would prefer that way), but for this I need agreement from all devs and also agree on the "way" how it should be done (i.e. if to rename files from *.c to *.cpp or not)
18:12:34  <peter1138> otoh, can c++ and c be mixed? Hmm
18:12:44  *** sergeynik [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:12:47  <DarkSSH> yes
18:13:06  <peter1138> and also, please don't keep calling it c--. that's irritating
18:13:06  <KUDr> peter: yes, but calling C++ from C-- needs wrapper functions
18:13:20  *** tokai|mdlx [] has joined #openttd
18:13:24  <KUDr> heh, sorry
18:14:00  <peter1138> RoadStopType rstype = (v->cargo_type == CT_PASSENGERS) ? RS_BUS : RS_TRUCK;
18:14:06  <peter1138> if (GetRoadStopType(tile) == rstype) {
18:14:19  <peter1138> roadveh_cmd.c:990: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
18:14:20  <peter1138> o_O
18:14:45  <peter1138> oh
18:14:49  <peter1138> GetRoadStopType returns... an int o_O
18:14:53  <DarkSSH> well it does
18:14:55  <DarkSSH> damn
18:14:57  <DarkSSH> too fast
18:15:05  *** Qball is now known as MK
18:16:08  *** MK is now known as Qball
18:16:45  * peter1138 waits for everything to recompile
18:16:50  <peter1138> i hate headers sometimes :)
18:16:54  *** DJ_Mirage [] has joined #openttd
18:21:23  <peter1138> ok, <-- untested, should do the job?
18:22:52  *** Head [n=Head___@0-058.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #openttd
18:22:54  <DarkSSH> if (GetRoadStopType(tile) == rstype) { <-- this added, rigth?
18:23:21  <peter1138> yes
18:23:34  <peter1138> hence the + :)
18:23:38  <DarkSSH> I wonder why the previous code didn't work. I mean if it doesn't have the correct RS_ it returns NULL and it should work the same
18:23:49  <peter1138> because it asserts on NULL
18:23:57  <peter1138> which is pretty d'oh worthy
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18:24:19  <DarkSSH> well perhaps the assert is wrong then :)
18:24:47  <peter1138> line 114 of station_cmd.c
18:24:48  <peter1138> heh
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18:24:57  <peter1138> it's an assert in a for-loop, heh
18:26:13  <DarkSSH> that loop looks kinda weird
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18:26:57  <DarkSSH> but the surrounding calls, etc. expect to call it with a type that certainly exists
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18:30:03  <peter1138> hmm
18:30:07  <peter1138> i'll test it when i get home
18:31:01  <Tron> DarkSSH: that assert ist sensible
18:31:15  <Tron> 1. fetch station index from tile
18:31:21  <Tron> 2. fetch road stop list from station
18:31:56  <Tron> -> if road stop list of the station doesn't contain the road stop, something is TERRIBLY wrong
18:32:32  <DarkSSH> hmm
18:32:36  <Tron> because it means the road stop is refering to a station it doesn't belong to
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18:46:33  <_Luca_> Evening all
18:49:24  *** KUDr [] has joined #openttd
18:49:42  <DarkSSH> wb KUDr
18:49:53  <KUDr> thanx
18:50:27  <KUDr> reinstalling VS5k5beta2 to regular one
18:50:42  <KUDr> VS2k5beta2
18:50:45  <DarkSSH> whohoo. saving patches is finished \o/
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18:57:05  <Tron> DarkSSH: if you manage to remove the autosave interval from the savegames, i'll worship you
18:57:20  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
18:57:28  <DarkSSH> Tron: I've already done that
18:57:31  <DarkSSH> :D
18:57:38  * Tron worships DarkSSH
18:58:16  * DarkSSH weeps from happiness
18:58:35  <DarkSSH> this is the biggest honour that has happened to me.
18:58:40  <DarkSSH> I could die now and be happy :)
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18:58:48  *** eQualize1 is now known as eQualizer
18:58:52  * Tron kills DarkSSH
18:58:58  <DarkSSH> hmm
18:58:58  <Tron> wish fulfilled
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19:02:29  <Bjarni> <DarkSSH>	Tron / peter1138 / Bjarni : comments on C++-izing <-- should only be done if we would benefit greatly from it
19:02:53  <Bjarni> I will not read up on C++ unless I have to :p
19:04:07  <Tron> overloaded operators for enums is N.I.C.E
19:05:04  <DarkSSH> Bjarni: we will surely benefit from it: NPF + PBS :)
19:05:21  <DarkSSH> and well, as my C skills are pretty up to par, I'm ready to pick up C++ again :P
19:06:31  <Tron> DarkSSH: i bet i can come up with some obscure details about C which will make you feel humble again (;
19:07:21  * DarkSSH casts obfuscation on Tron
19:07:31  * Tron resists
19:07:38  <DarkSSH> you cannot
19:07:40  <DarkSSH> we are the borg
19:07:54  * BurtyB drools over 7
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19:09:09  <KUDr> Bjarni: first it should all compile as C++ and then we can hold real C++ code separated (in isolated modules only), but fully compatible with the rest - direct calls will be possible
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19:11:28  <DarkSSH> ey, I'm off for some sports :)
19:12:14  <valhallasw> hf :+
19:13:41  <Bjarni> KUDr: yeah, we should not make  total mess of a mix of C and C++
19:13:53  <KUDr> I agree
19:14:14  <KUDr> but it should all compile as C++ for compatibility reasons
19:14:53  <Bjarni> why?
19:16:06  <KUDr> becauseotherwise the calls from C to C++ code must use wrapper functions (can't be inlined)
19:16:09  <Bjarni> can't you make object files for C based on a C compiler and C++ object files based on cpp files and then link those together?
19:16:19  <Bjarni> ahh
19:16:42  <KUDr> it would mess the code and also slow it down
19:17:06  <KUDr> from C++ to C it is not a problem, but back
19:17:44  <peter1138> backness
19:18:10  <ector> in any case, making code compiling as both C and C++ is ALWAYS a good thing, since C++ has stricter type checks
19:18:21  <peter1138> now, where was i?
19:18:25  <Tron> KUDr: slow it down? why?
19:18:43  <Tron> KUDr: and what's the problem? (except for not being able to call class methods of course)
19:18:54  <ector> nah, if you compile it with something like VC2003 or later, that do global optimization, those wrappers will disappear
19:19:10  <KUDr> if you must call C++ accessors (that normally can be inlined) through wrappers, it is much slower
19:19:40  <KUDr> ector: also on g++?
19:19:44  <ector> no it's not, the wrappers will be inlined at codegen stage (VC2003 do final codegen at link time) and killed off
19:19:46  <ector> dunno
19:19:46  <Tron> ector: context?
19:20:05  <ector> context?
19:20:21  <Tron> yes, context, what's the context you're talking in
19:20:39  <KUDr> C/C++ wrappers I guess
19:20:47  <ector> last, i was replying to Kudr's assertion that wrappers will slow down
19:20:56  <ector> i need to remember to include nick when replying to stuff :P
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19:21:14  <ector> Tron, but i failed again :)
19:21:20  <Tron> still i don't see the context
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19:21:36  <ector> <KUDr> if you must call C++ accessors (that normally can be inlined) through wrappers, it is much slower
19:21:45  <ector>  <ector> no it's not, the wrappers will be inlined at codegen stage (VC2003 do final codegen at link time) and killed off
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19:21:51  <Tron> inline functions are per definition static in C++, so the compiler may do anything to them, except if you take the address of them
19:22:45  <ector> tron, who cares? i'm not talking about standard inlining. MSVC is much smarter than that, it can inline stuff it feels like inlining at LINK TIME nowadays
19:23:03  <KUDr> Tron: but you can't see them from C code directly
19:26:11  <peter1138> right, i should test that fix
19:26:36  <Tron> you should rather be concerned about the implementation of certain algorithms (like NPF) than functions which get called like twice per frame
19:27:19  <KUDr> :) yes
19:27:23  <peter1138> KUDr: 2k5 = 2500 ;)
19:27:32  <KUDr> hehe
19:27:45  <KUDr> in this case not - as it is M$
19:27:56  <peter1138> Microsoft don't call it 2k5...
19:28:14  <KUDr> yes but all from them is abnormal
19:29:21  * peter1138 waits for compilage
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19:30:05  <sulai> hey guys how are you :)
19:30:41  <sulai> I'm really sorry about the transfer feature which is so bugged, you can't really use it :-(
19:30:53  <Bjarni> then fix it
19:31:03  <peter1138> it's buggy, not bugged
19:31:13  <sulai> Who's working on it Bjarni?
19:31:20  <sulai> I don't want to do double work
19:31:28  <Bjarni> hmmm
19:31:34  <Bjarni> I don't know
19:31:46  <Bjarni> do anybody work on it at the moment?
19:31:53  <Bjarni> I don't think so
19:31:54  <peter1138> nope
19:32:16  <sulai> Who was implementing the transfer patch as it is now? maybe i can share some experience
19:32:33  <sulai> I was also programming a feeder service patch for ottd once
19:32:33  <Bjarni> Celestar... I think
19:32:52  <sulai> Celestar, are you there?
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19:35:52  <peter1138> Bjarni: tell me my buoys start off at number 9
19:36:28  <Bjarni> peter1138: same here
19:36:38  <peter1138> :)
19:36:46  <Bjarni> it's not an endian issue
19:36:54  <Bjarni> I thought that when I first said so
19:36:56  <peter1138> hehe
19:37:08  <peter1138> it's as if it's trying to find a free number
19:37:15  <Bjarni> but ludde knew that and it was like he didn't cared, so I did nothing
19:37:15  <peter1138> and there's a break/continue missing
19:37:24  <peter1138> so it finds the last free number instead of the first free number
19:37:26  <peter1138> or something
19:37:35  <Bjarni> this was almost 2 years ago
19:37:43  <peter1138> that's probably totally wrong though, because i've not looked at the code
19:39:51  *** Belugas_Meeting is now known as Belugas
19:39:58  *** stavrosg [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:40:58  <Mukke> .. or maybe someone just decided it should start at 9...
19:42:14  <Bjarni> someone = ludde in this case
19:42:26  *** Spoco [] has quit []
19:42:36  <Bjarni> it was when ludde was in total control and only him and Vurlix had svn access
19:43:22  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r3681 /trunk/ (roadveh_cmd.c station.h): - [Multistop] Check the RoadStop type before check its status. This fixes an assert introduced in r3663. Also fix the return type of GetRoadStopType().
19:43:26  <peter1138> that was quick
19:43:38  <peter1138> Bjarni: g5_detector is weird
19:43:44  <Bjarni> why?
19:43:57  <Bjarni> it returns 1 to stdout if it is a G5 else nothing
19:44:24  <Bjarni> copy pasted of the G5 detector code on Apple's developer homepage
19:44:39  <Bjarni> well, rewrote the return bool to printf
19:44:51  <peter1138> it confuses tortoisesvn, at least
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19:44:57  <Bjarni> o_O
19:45:02  <Bjarni> how?
19:45:04  <Bjarni> and why?
19:45:08  <Bjarni> it's just a C file
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19:45:17  *** Prof_Fri1k is now known as Prof_Frink
19:45:22  <peter1138>
19:45:25  <peter1138> ah ha
19:45:31  <peter1138> you've put /* $Id:$ */
19:45:40  <peter1138> it should be /* $Id$ */
19:45:48  <peter1138> that doesn't confuse svn diff though...
19:45:56  <Bjarni> oh
19:46:05  <Bjarni> hehe
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19:46:11  <peter1138> also, the coding style sucks
19:46:31  <Bjarni> well I kept it true to the source of the code
19:47:41  <peter1138> yeah
19:47:43  <peter1138> but "main()" ?
19:49:55  <CIA-5> bjarni * r3682 /trunk/os/macosx/G5_detector.c: -Fix: didn't write $ correct in G5_detector in r3673, which caused problems for tortoisesvn
19:50:00  <Bjarni> here you go
19:50:14  <Bjarni> yeah, main() is good enough for this issue
19:50:20  <Bjarni> it's a fairly simple app
19:50:57  <Bjarni> when it runs, it returns 1 if the CPU is a G5 at runtime, else it will not put anything in stdout
19:51:03  <Bjarni> which is just what the makefile needs
19:52:37  <peter1138> thanks
19:53:11  <Bjarni> hey, the commit message ended up being wrong
19:53:19  <Bjarni> it exchanged $Id$ to $
19:53:24  <Bjarni> :s
19:53:32  <peter1138> :)
19:53:49  <Bjarni> now the log entry makes little sense
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19:56:10  <Bjarni> oh another thing: I learned why I could not crosscompile to OSX 10.3. It turned out to be my libpng, that had been hardcoded for 10.4
19:56:22  <Bjarni> oddly enough it worked on 10.2, but not 10.3 o_O
19:56:59  *** Scia [] has quit ["kwiet"]
19:57:09  <Bjarni> now I got a crosscompiled libpng for 10.3, so I can target all supported versions of OSX
20:00:02  <valhallasw> hurray
20:02:46  <Qball> YEAH!
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20:15:11  <Bjarni> hey, I forgot to tell what happened at uni today
20:15:34  <Bjarni> once again people that I don't know showed interest in OTTD
20:17:03  <Bjarni> I'm famous
20:17:26  <Bjarni> I even talked a bit with those guys without telling them how well I know the game
20:18:14  <Bjarni> hmm
20:18:26  <Bjarni> I'm a famous guy, who nobody reads :(
20:18:28  <ector> why not? a little bragging doesn't hurt :)
20:18:34  <ector> i read it :P
20:18:48  <Bjarni> it's just like an artist.... they are famous, yet nobody cares what they do :p
20:18:55  <_Luca_> poor Bjarni
20:19:14  <_Luca_> you are still like a celebrity to me :P
20:19:22  <ector> not many people, other than emu lamers in forums, care that i wrote half a gamecube emulator either but that's life :)
20:19:43  <Bjarni> wow
20:19:46  <Belugas> Artists are often more famous once they die.  Don't die just yet :)
20:19:51  <Bjarni> you wrote a gamecube emulator?
20:19:58  <ector>
20:20:04  <Bjarni> is it useable?
20:20:19  <ector> yes if you like playing Zelda with perfect gfx and no sound at 3-7 FPS
20:20:25  <ector> on the highest end rigs around
20:20:47  <Bjarni> or is it like UAE (unuseable Amiga Emulator), that despite the name ended up being the best one
20:20:57  * Qball wrote a hello world program. does that count?
20:21:04  <ector> random screenshot:
20:21:10  <ector> of metroid, not zelda :P
20:21:28  <ector> bjarni, if we ever get 20ghz CPU:s, it will rock
20:22:24  * Bjarni notes that when he gets a 10 GHz G5
20:22:29  <Bjarni> that would do
20:22:36  <ector> barely
20:22:51  <ector> it is possible to play puzzle bobble at full speed with sound though :)
20:22:51  <Bjarni> then you don't know the power of G5
20:23:03  <Bjarni> it's awesome
20:23:22  *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@] has quit ["sleep 'n' all that [Time wasted online: 9hrs 11mins 58secs]"]
20:23:30  <ector> well, the fact that it's bigendian would help Dolphin a lot
20:23:35  <ector> we lose a lot of speed on that
20:23:51  <ector> (hacks for endianness conversion)
20:24:00  <Qball> can imagine that
20:24:05  <Bjarni> Apple's move away from PowerPC is not based on a poor G5, but poor plans for the coming years. Right now they would actually do better by sticking with G5
20:24:10  <Bjarni> it's an awesome CPU
20:24:18  <ector> it's not really faster than an opteron anyway
20:24:20  <Qball> or go to G6
20:24:21  <ector> so it doesn't really matter
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20:24:36  <ector> don't believe the PPC hype
20:24:56  <Bjarni> Qball: that's an issue as G6/G7 and so on appears to be weaker than Intel CPUs within a few years
20:25:18  <ector> AMD's awesome integrated memory controllers negates most of any advantage that G5 has..
20:25:31  <ector> G5 has pretty high memory access latencies
20:25:40  <ector> it does great in synthetic benchmarks
20:25:45  <Qball> never ending need for speed
20:25:45  <ector> less well in real world
20:25:51  <Bjarni> <ector>	(hacks for endianness conversion) <-- G5 got hardware to deal with endian conversions, which makes it really fast, but still not as fast if it just reads the correct endianess from the disk to begin with
20:26:03  <Bjarni> G3 and G4 got it in the hardware as well
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20:26:55  <ector> x86 has hardware for that too (BSWAP) although not quite as efficient since ppc has it integrated in its load instructions, you have to do it separately on x86
20:27:05  <ector> we didn't do it that way though, we store the entire RAM byteswapped already
20:27:13  <ector> the problems comes with unaligned accesses
20:27:19  <ector> both from CPU and GPU
20:27:32  <Bjarni> eek
20:27:43  <ector> oh well i'm too lazy to explain all that shit
20:27:44  <ector> it works
20:27:45  <ector> but it's not pretty
20:27:49  <ector> and not fast
20:28:04  <Bjarni> you should make it store data aligned. You would gain a lot of speed that way
20:28:05  <Bjarni> ALOT
20:28:25  <Bjarni> more than you can image
20:28:26  <ector> well display lists for the ati gpu in the cube contain BYTE CODE instructions
20:28:37  <ector> and the cpu likes to write display lists
20:28:40  <ector> and the cpu likes to read them
20:28:43  <ector> so ehm
20:29:02  <Bjarni> you hardcoded it for ATi?
20:29:08  <ector> no
20:29:27  <ector> it translates the native commands for the gamecube gfx chip to directX
20:29:41  <Bjarni> bah
20:29:42  <ector> and that takes quite a lot of cpu power
20:29:45  <Bjarni> DirectX
20:29:48  <ector> DX rocks
20:29:49  <Bjarni> poor choice
20:29:50  <ector> GL sucks
20:29:52  <ector> that's just the way it is
20:29:58  <peter1138> ouch!
20:30:12  <ector> don't have time for a flamewar though, I have an exam tomorrow
20:30:13  <peter1138> so essentially it's an ATi emulator...
20:30:16  <peter1138> (as well)
20:30:23  <ector> no, it emulates the gamecube's specific chip
20:30:28  <ector> it's WAY different from any PC ati cards
20:30:32  <peter1138> right
20:30:35  <ector> it's custom
20:30:38  * Bjarni notes never to use that emulator as the people writing it fails to understand how to gain proper speed
20:30:47  <Bjarni> and also hardcoded it for windows
20:30:48  * ector slaps Bjarni around a bit with a large trout
20:30:56  <Bjarni> typical MS thinking
20:31:03  <Qball> ha ha ha
20:31:05  <Qball> that is low
20:31:15  <valhallasw> well, DX is more useful for games than ogl
20:31:16  <ector> what's wrong with that? 95% of emu users run Windows anyway
20:31:23  <Kjetil> what did you expect ? :)
20:31:25  <ector> and DX is just plain better
20:31:27  <ector> so ehm
20:31:35  <valhallasw> we need an oss DX replacement
20:31:47  <valhallasw> and MS to ask money for DX development :Y)
20:31:52  <Bjarni> 	<ector>	what's wrong with that? 95% of emu users run Windows anyway <-- 1: how do you know it's 95%? 2: you leave them no choice
20:32:05  * Kjetil ponders why DX should be better than OpenGL
20:32:19  <Bjarni> Bill Gates think that
20:32:21  <Qball> loasds of linux emulators around too
20:32:27  <valhallasw> OpenGL was not designed for games
20:32:29  <valhallasw> DX was
20:32:30  <ector> also, the new DX10 is an awesome design, it's a shame it will take the ARB several years to get that level of clean functionality into OpenGL
20:32:36  <Kjetil> Bjarni: yeah, Our allmighty good says so :P
20:32:40  <Kjetil> s/good/god/
20:33:06  <Bjarni> ...
20:33:09  <ector> the good thing about DX is that they redesign it be a nice match to modern hardware every few years
20:33:21  <valhallasw> so it will suck with older hardware?
20:33:22  <ector> the bad thing about that is that you have to port your code, but not many engines survive that long anyway :P
20:33:41  <ector> well, DX10 isn't old-hw friendly at all
20:33:44  <ector> DX9 is though
20:33:51  <Kjetil> *pets openGL* And do not forget to mention no-cross platform at ALL
20:34:03  <valhallasw> that is the good thing of ogl
20:34:18  <ector> well you get approximately crossplatform towards XBOX :P
20:34:33  <Bjarni> XBOX sucks
20:34:44  <ector> not really, it just doesn't rock. it doesn't really suck
20:34:55  <valhallasw> Porting to XBOX = burning to a special DVD >:) :p
20:35:11  <Qball> it runs linux.
20:35:11  <ector> valhallasw, not really .. you need to fit your game in 64MB of RAM too :P
20:35:17  <valhallasw> :p
20:35:23  <Kjetil> Porting to XBOX -- Put it out in the carport and run it over with the car
20:35:24  <Bjarni> o_O
20:35:32  <Bjarni> 64 mb RAM???? are they nuts?
20:35:39  <Kjetil> no.. just MS
20:35:41  <ector> xbox1 has 64mb of TOTAL RAM and VRAM
20:35:49  <ector> PS2 has 32 MB + 4MB framebuffer
20:35:57  <ector> xbox360 has 512
20:36:10  <Bjarni> ...
20:36:19  <ector> GC har 24MB RAM + 16MB slow ram
20:36:24  <ector> *has
20:36:26  <Bjarni> that makes XBOX 360 look sane... something is really wrong here
20:36:51  <ector> xbox 360 is an incredibly cool architecture
20:36:57  <ector> i wish i could code for one
20:37:06  <ector> alas, they haven't chipped it yet :P
20:37:07  <Bjarni> too bad the software on it sucks
20:37:13  <Bjarni> MS stability
20:37:16  <Qball> or the psu
20:37:17  <ector> well Sony stability is worse
20:37:20  <ector> so ..
20:37:27  <Bjarni> get a mac
20:37:28  <Qball> sony rootkits you too
20:37:55  <Bjarni> I can't crash mine unless I actually sabotage the OS on purpose, which would need me to use my admin password
20:38:03  <ector> i can't crash my lame XP laptop either
20:38:04  <Bjarni> or even root depending on where it is
20:38:18  <Bjarni> ector: I crashed windows XP the other day
20:38:22  <Bjarni> I did something stupid
20:38:24  <ector> you had a bad driver
20:38:44  <ector> same thing can crash a mac
20:38:49  <Bjarni> I booted, logged in and then left the computer for like 10 minutes. When I returned, it had crashed explorer
20:38:52  * Prof_Frink can crash his 'buntu while messing with an ndiswrapped wifi card
20:38:54  <hylje> mac does not have bad drivers
20:38:58  <ector> although Apple makes the hardware so bad drivers are rarer
20:38:58  <valhallasw> well
20:38:58  <hylje> that is the difference
20:39:03  <_Luca_> someone i know did start -> run -> cmd ->  ok and xp crashed yesterday
20:39:05  <valhallasw> I crashed my linux server just two hours ago
20:39:19  <ector> Bjarni, blah, that's just explorer. Mac's Finder isn't that great either
20:39:23  <valhallasw> a bsod.. black screen of death... with a memory dump on it :+
20:39:39  <hylje> blue screen of AAAAA
20:39:47  <Kjetil> ector: it won't crash itself
20:39:49  <Bjarni> ector: you want a blue screen of death.... that happened this weekend
20:39:59  * Prof_Frink hugs the BSoD screensaver
20:40:00  <Bjarni> though I don't know how... it just happened while playing OpenTTD
20:40:07  <valhallasw> hax!
20:40:12  <ector> update your video and audio drivers
20:40:21  <Qball> this is fun
20:40:34  <ector> i bought my laptop in June, 0 BSODs so far
20:40:37  <ector> but wtf
20:40:45  <ector> I said I don't have time for flamewars! >:)
20:40:50  * ector goes back to his studies
20:40:55  <ector> or at least pretends to
20:40:57  <Bjarni> you seriously think I should manually update my drivers to play something like OpenTTD???
20:41:06  <Bjarni> that really sucks
20:41:08  <Kjetil> *laughs*
20:41:10  <ector> Bjarni, PC is an open platform, that's what you get :P
20:41:22  <Kjetil> Bjarni: It's probably some hidden Ludde code that crashes windows :)
20:41:30  <Qball> HA HA HA
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20:42:22  <Bjarni> why should I even need to update my drivers? They came with the hardware
20:43:05  <hylje> bad coding
20:43:10  <ector> video drivers are mindbendingly complex. bugs ship sometimes
20:43:11  * Kjetil has never understood the windows<->driver issue
20:43:18  <Mukke> Bjarni: Blame the driver supplier instead of Windows
20:43:31  <ector> fortunately they've cleaned up the entire driver model in Vista
20:43:37  <ector> most of the video drivers will run in user mode
20:43:41  <ector> so no more BSODs
20:43:42  <ector> from that
20:43:45  <valhallasw> erm
20:43:52  <Kjetil> yeah, you will get RSOD instead
20:43:52  <valhallasw> so everything will be really slow?
20:43:59  <Kjetil> probably
20:44:00  <ector> no
20:44:00  <Bjarni> if you look at hardware support for OSX, you will notice that it is able to handle a lot of hardware... some people on the net experiment with putting all sorts of non mac hardware in their computers and usually it just works
20:44:03  <_Luca_> Kjetil: :P
20:44:23  <Kjetil> so thats why the Vista system requirments is of the scale
20:44:25  <Bjarni> however sometimes it fails, so you should not rely on it :p
20:44:39  <ector> Kjetil, it's still in BETA
20:44:56  <ector> but wtf
20:45:03  * ector goes back to his studies, for real this time!
20:45:09  <Kjetil> sure
20:45:38  <_Luca_> do what i do and study in front of your computer
20:45:59  <Bjarni> if MS would do something wise, then they would make something like software update, which should also update hardware drivers and the hardware manufactors could then send in their newest drivers to add to the system
20:46:13  <hylje> its called windows update
20:46:16  <Mukke> Isn't that what Microsoft Update is called?
20:46:30  <Qball> HA HA
20:46:30  <Bjarni> they don't do hardware drivers
20:46:34  <Cipri> Yes they do
20:46:35  <hylje> but it doesnt have nearly enough new drivers
20:46:38  <Mukke> they do sometimes
20:46:42  <Mukke> but yes, I don't see many
20:47:57  <Bjarni> they properly want a whole lot of money to add a new 3rd party driver to their system, so the companies don't use it
20:48:02  <Kjetil> We should abandon driver and instead use stuff like inferfacing directly to the video bios and stuff like that :)
20:48:13  *** Mucht|zZz is now known as Mucht
20:48:20  <Kjetil> s/video/vesa/
20:48:24  <hylje> should be fun to develop games then
20:48:37  <hylje> since most video hardware have different kinkd
20:48:39  <hylje> kinks
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20:49:37  <Kjetil> the vesa bios is standarised, X servers like TinyX/Kdrive can run directly off them
20:50:04  <Qball> one generalised api would do the trick..
20:50:09  <Mukke> using that premise, we might as well do away with the whole OS idea..
20:50:17  <Kjetil> yeah
20:50:40  <Kjetil> We should use cartrigdes instead
20:51:07  <ector> just jump over to #dsdev on EFnet and get your fix then
20:51:18  * ector now studies in front of his comp :P
20:51:30  <_Luca_> yeye
20:51:50  <Kjetil> I think we should fork Openttd-OS
20:51:52  <Mukke> Bjarni: => get your drivers there ;-)
20:52:57  <Kjetil> *wanders off to play some doom2*
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20:59:23  <TL|Away> KUDr: have fun with your C++ :p How much I am against it, it is just me ;) And as I said before, the nightly should never be the reason to hold it (people used it as excuse, including me, but that is bad ;)) So I wish you good luck in porting it, and I will do my best to adjust the nigthly system to accept the code :)
21:01:05  *** eQualizer [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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21:06:43  *** TL|Away is now known as TrueLight
21:06:48  <KUDr> TL|Away: thanks, will do my best
21:07:27  <TrueLight> I am reworking the nightly system that it can handle a bit more then just OpenTTD Trunk ;)
21:08:25  <_Luca_> Celestar: Ping
21:09:00  <Belugas> That sounds EXTREMELY interesting :)
21:09:14  <Qball> 32bit branch nightly
21:09:24  <TrueLight> in fact, it should be able to handle even more then OpenTTD... just I need more CPU power ;)
21:09:33  <TrueLight> Qball: e.g.
21:09:43  * peter1138 fiddles with 2cc support
21:10:39  *** Spoco [] has quit []
21:12:44  * KUDr wonders if it is OK, that random desert scenario is 'desert-only' (no rainforest at all)
21:12:46  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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21:16:25  <_Luca_> anyone happen to have Celestars email addressy?
21:16:41  <Qball>
21:16:52  * Bjarni kicks Qball
21:16:53  <_Luca_> that will probably work :P
21:17:04  <Bjarni> ever heard of Email sniffing bots?
21:17:16  <peter1138> hmm, 21:17
21:17:20  * _Luca_ sniffs the email address...
21:17:37  <_Luca_> Gmail is screwed
21:17:49  <hylje> i dont think theres many email bots in a small channel like this
21:18:21  *** tank_ is now known as tank
21:20:07  <peter1138> 101 nicks is not that small
21:20:38  <peter1138> and considering there are a few who have *never* spoken...
21:21:49  <Qball>
21:21:55  <Qball> I don't think  I'll notice the difference
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21:39:10  <_Luca_> still being tired from the party over the weekend, Luca decides it is time for bed
21:39:12  *** _Luca_ [n=luca@] has quit ["O_o Crazy fools! o_O"]
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21:46:53  <DaleStan> DarkSSH: EXPN _airport_depots_*, please? I can't get them to agree with the "first element of depots array tells us how many depots there are" comment.
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22:02:10  <Spiralistic> Hi wonderful people. I've got a little trouble with the Transfer feature - it used to work fine in a previous (nightly'ish) build, but it's giving me trouble in the latest stable. Is anyone online who might be able to help?
22:05:45  <sulai> Spiralistic: talk.
22:08:09  <sulai> What kind of trouble?
22:11:38  *** Spiralistic is now known as TubularBell
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22:12:43  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
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22:14:46  <Spiralistic> Sulai: I've got an aircraft at an airport which acts as the carrier for a feeder system of 3 buses.
22:15:26  <Spiralistic> The aircraft is happily waiting for the passengers to arrive, the bus arrives and dumps it's cargo.
22:16:03  <Spiralistic> The aircraft picks up the cargo (so far so good...) - but then it immediately unloads the cargo again, giving me a tiny incoming ( or so) and making my passengers go Poof.
22:16:18  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:16:28  <sulai> Spiralistic:
22:16:34  <sulai> it's "buggy"
22:16:39  <Spiralistic> Aaaah, ok
22:17:04  <Spiralistic> It worked fine in a combined-patches build I was using up 'till yesterday :)
22:17:06  <sulai> I am here because of the same reason ;)
22:17:19  <sulai> uh, who did this patch?
22:17:38  <sulai> where can I get it from ^^
22:17:44  <Spiralistic> *grin* Ok, at least I'm not alone. One moment - I got it from the Forum.
22:18:30  <sulai> whoever this patch did (and if it works properly) should post it on sourceforge
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22:19:04  <StarLite>
22:19:09  <StarLite> very irrtating bug :/
22:19:18  <StarLite> really causing problems in our networks..
22:19:31  <StarLite> any chance someone could have a look at it?
22:19:50  <StarLite> reported it over 2 weeks ago
22:20:08  <sulai> ottd has 2 bugtrackers? how irritating
22:20:10  <Spiralistic> Sulai: It's the Integrated Nightly Build:
22:20:21  <sulai> thanx Spiralistic
22:20:26  <Spiralistic> Has worked like a charm for me over the past few months
22:20:49  <sulai> yes, the transfer patch makes sense.. if it works
22:21:42  <Spiralistic> Transfer is like THE best thing since sliced bread - getting 8 busstations to dump their passengers at a central airport just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
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22:23:08  <sulai> lol ^^
22:25:22  <peter1138> passenger destinations are better
22:25:40  <sulai> Spiralistic: there are 3 exe files in the integrated binaries...?
22:25:58  <sulai> peter1138: is there a patch existing?
22:26:42  <peter1138> no
22:27:02  <peter1138> i think there was one a long time ago that didn't work too well
22:27:37  <Spiralistic> Hmm. Sulai: I just use openttd.exe ..
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22:27:58  <Spiralistic> The window title of mine is OpenTTD Subs_3190, if it helps?
22:29:39  <glx> Spiralistic: it's not Integrated Nightly :)
22:30:00  <Spiralistic> I wondered about that too now that I noticed it
22:30:05  <Spiralistic> Subs is the subsidiaries, right?
22:30:12  <glx> I think so
22:30:27  <sulai> subsidiaries are included in the integrated
22:31:14  <Spiralistic> I started out with Subsidiaries.. that worked pretty well, but in the thread it was mentioned subs was now part of integrated, so I upgraded to that.. but I think the window title was still subs at the time
22:31:26  <sulai> ...but the window title doesn't show sub at the integrated
22:31:56  <Spiralistic> In that case either try it and see if you like Integrated, or give me some time to hunt down where the heck I got this one from then :S
22:32:38  <sulai> I'm not about the subs, I'm about the feeder service ;)
22:33:03  <Spiralistic> Heh, ok, just check if feeder works in integrated ^_^
22:33:32  <Spiralistic> I just upgraded mine to Integrated.. let's see how much it crashes
22:34:37  <sulai> this list of changes doesn't mention something about the transfer feature
22:34:40  <sulai>
22:35:17  <Spiralistic> I just started it and you're right - no transfer :( *sigh* Ok.. let's see now.
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22:38:53  <Spiralistic> Try this one, it's the one I was using (I think...)
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22:39:44  <RichK> hi there - ive got a question for the devs about airports...
22:40:56  <sulai> RichK: is it about feeder service?
22:41:01  <RichK> to support more than 6 terminals/2 helipads, i need to increase the number of movement block flags in airport_movement.h
22:41:22  <sulai> obviously not ;)
22:41:27  <RichK> beyond 31... else i get a "width of type" error
22:42:32  <RichK> sorry sulai - im creating new airports at the moment, and the system needs careful mods to allow for future expansion
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22:43:24  <sulai> Spiralistic: I'm having a look at that one
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22:48:04  <sulai> Spiralistic: yes, works...
22:48:32  <sulai> although the feeded train forgets about the pessenger's origin
22:49:29  <Spiralistic> Sulai: And.. performing as you hoped?
22:50:55  <Spiralistic> True.. that's the only problem I encountered with it so far.. so basically it only pays off if you gather a large group far, far away and move them all over in one batch..
22:51:10  <Spiralistic> Not handy for combining along the route, adding little groups of passengers every time
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22:51:38  <sulai> hm... I hope you get paid for the whole track, not only for the last bit
22:52:04  <sulai> also the stations forget about the pessenger's origin :-(
22:52:04  <Spiralistic> I think you only get paid for the last bit, from what I can tell.
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22:52:20  <sulai> well then feeder service makes no sense at all
22:52:21  <Spiralistic> Yep. That's because of how cargo is implemented at the moment, unfortunately
22:52:35  <Spiralistic> Well, I think it does.
22:52:40  <RichK> hi bjarni, born_acorn, peter1138, truelight, tron ... can you guys help me?
22:52:52  <TrueLight> all of us
22:52:52  <TrueLight> pfew
22:52:54  <Bjarni> for a price
22:52:55  <TrueLight> you are demanding :)
22:53:01  <RichK> lol
22:53:09  <Bjarni> specially since you highlighted all of us
22:53:15  <RichK> would 3 new airport designs be a good enough bribe?
22:53:47  <Bjarni> if you remove the 256 engine limit as well so we can use them, yes
22:53:51  <RichK> i need help on a small aspect tho... i need to have  more than 32 states
22:54:10  <RichK> what 256 engine limit?
22:54:15  * Born_Acorn wonders how he got highlighted.
22:54:17  <RichK> elements?
22:54:17  <Bjarni> more than 32 what states?
22:54:31  <RichK> 32 block states in airport_movement.g
22:54:37  <RichK> .h even
22:54:38  <sulai> Spiralistic: it's not very sensful to build a wide spreaded feeder service network and only get money for the last transport...
22:54:54  <Bjarni> right now engine designs got an 8 bit index, which means that no more than 256 different designs can be in the game at any one time
22:54:56  <Spiralistic> Sulai: That's not how I am using it.. I realized early on that was a waste of money
22:55:03  <RichK> bleh... i mean movement block flags
22:55:08  <Bjarni> ahh, airport stuff
22:55:19  <Bjarni> you mean the blocks the planes move around in
22:55:22  <Bjarni> hmm
22:55:30  <Bjarni> DarkSSH: this one is for you
22:55:34  <RichK> yup... i want to raise the bar for terminals and helipads, but need more block states to control them
22:55:40  <Spiralistic> Consider this: One airport, 8 busstations. The busstations dump their passengers at the airport from the towns surrounding it. Then the aircraft makes the long haul all the way across the map.
22:55:46  <Bjarni> the single guy in here you didn't highlight :p
22:56:01  <sulai> Spiralistic: yes this makes sense
22:56:08  <RichK> i was looking for DarkVater... the DarkSSH confused me... ;)
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22:56:28  <Bjarni> DarkSSH is DarkVater logged in remotely or something like that
22:56:43  <RichK> ahh...
22:56:50  <sulai> the transfer feature could be more than that ;)
22:57:09  <Spiralistic> It sure could be more, with passenger destinations/source remembered...
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22:57:26  <Spiralistic> But hey, this is far better then nothing ^_^
22:57:31  <RichK> anyway, i assume the enum is mapped to an int32, but can i easily redeclare it to enum off an int64??
22:58:16  <Spiralistic> And it kinda works for trains as well... just collect your passengers in one central station on one side of the map, put them in a mammoth train that goes to the other side of the map, unload there. Profits of 50.000 fairly early in the game are not uncommon using that ^_^
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22:59:37  <RichK> i suspect i can redeclare the block setting in this typedef to int64, but didnt want to go messing without checking
22:59:48  <RichK> typedef struct AirportFTAbuildup {
22:59:48  <RichK>      byte position;                                   // the position that an airplane is at
22:59:48  <RichK>      byte heading;                                        // the current orders (eg. TAKEOFF, HANGAR, ENDLANDING, etc.)
22:59:48  <RichK>      uint32 block;                                        // the block this position is on on the airport (st->airport_flags)
22:59:49  <RichK>      byte next_in_chain;                         // next position from this position
22:59:51  <RichK> } AirportFTAbuildup;
22:59:53  <RichK>
22:59:55  <RichK> typedef struct AirportFTAbuildup {
22:59:57  <RichK>      byte position;                                   // the position that an airplane is at
22:59:59  <RichK>      byte heading;                                        // the current orders (eg. TAKEOFF, HANGAR, ENDLANDING, etc.)
23:00:02  <RichK>      uint32 block;                                        // the block this position is on on the airport (st->airport_flags)
23:00:05  <RichK>      byte next_in_chain;                         // next position from this position
23:00:07  <RichK> } AirportFTAbuildup;
23:00:09  <RichK>
23:00:13  <RichK> oops... sorry for the double paste
23:01:27  <RichK> lol.... just found this comment
23:01:30  <RichK>      uint32 block;     // 32 bit blocks (st->airport_flags), should be enough for the most complex airports
23:02:01  <RichK> "640K is enough for anybody" methinks ;)
23:02:34  <Qball> spam/
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23:02:51  <sula1> Spiralistic: yes you are right
23:02:54  <sula1> I just wonder...
23:03:25  <sula1> in the official ottd nightly don't forget about pessenger's origin
23:03:39  <sula1> in fact thats the reason why these pessengers get "sold"
23:03:59  <Spiralistic> Where'd you find that out?
23:05:06  <sula1> because sub's pessengers's origins are forgotten and they are not sold
23:05:16  *** PAStheLoD [] has quit ["( :: NoNameScript 4.01 :: )"]
23:05:17  <sula1> my english is terrible tonigt ;P
23:05:35  <Spiralistic> Aah, ok :) Well, you're more understandable then me after a few drinks
23:05:46  *** Born_Acorn [] has quit []
23:06:51  <Spiralistic> Anyway.. sounds like a decent theory. Any idea on if/how these smart guys can fix this? *points to devs*
23:07:47  <sula1> Bjarni's comment as I was complaining: (20:28:30) Bjarni: then fix it
23:08:01  <sula1> I think they are busy somehow...? ;P
23:08:13  <Spiralistic> He's forgetting not all of us are C-wizards, I guess :P
23:08:38  <sula1> yes :)
23:08:39  <Spiralistic> Unless he's willing to port OpenTTD to Java for me, I'm afraid his comment is not much good ^_^
23:08:51  <Bjarni> now I forgot what I said that to :p
23:09:25  <sula1> Bjarni: I was talking about the transfer feature not working properly
23:09:33  <Spiralistic> Bjarni: Something to do with feeder system and immediately dropping off cargo as soon as it's loaded on the vehicle
23:09:42  <Bjarni> ahh that
23:09:53  <Bjarni> ahh cargo packages
23:10:26  <Spiralistic> Are cargopackages already implemented in the new style? Or is it just like it used to be at the moment?
23:11:00  <Bjarni> cargo packages is a nice plan that have yet to be written
23:11:17  <sula1> tell us more about that
23:11:25  <sula1> (nice good-night story :D)
23:11:28  <Spiralistic> Ok :) I was kinda surprised to hear you mention them as I though that was their status, so having them implemented would be a nice surprise :)
23:11:47  <Bjarni> actually I have a lecture in 8 hours, so the timing is poor
23:11:59  <Bjarni> check the forum and the wiki for cargo packages
23:12:03  <Spiralistic> Sula1: You know how cargoes get 'smashed together' when a vehicle unloads, making it remember only the last origin? Cargopackages solves that - kinda.
23:12:12  <sula1> ok thanks for this tip :)
23:12:45  <Bjarni> basically it makes cargo into a struct that contains cargo type, origin and age and then several of those packages can be in one unit, mixing cargo of different origin
23:12:56  <sula1> yes, but single vehicles (wagons) remember their origin
23:13:00  <Bjarni> when that works, it can be expanded to add destination too
23:13:25  *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away
23:13:31  <Spiralistic> But Bjarni.. is it possible to solve the problem at hand without looking at the (far larger problem of) cargo packages?
23:13:32  <Bjarni> if you pick up coal at one station, then at another, the last one is used as origin for all of it
23:13:46  <Bjarni> maybe
23:13:53  <Bjarni> you figure that out :p
23:13:56  <sula1> Bjarni: this sounds promising
23:14:01  <Bjarni> I need some sleep
23:14:03  <Spiralistic> Teach me C and you've got a deal.
23:14:09  <Bjarni> haha
23:14:09  <ln-> this is interesting:
23:14:19  <Bjarni> goodnight
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23:14:23  <Spiralistic> Night Bjarni
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23:20:06  <Naksu> <pokerface> Mac development is OK, so long as you don't mind that your target audience is likely to be you and the three other mac guys.
23:20:10  <Naksu> <TheFeniX_Work> last I checked there were at least 9 Mac gamers out there. Show some respect for the demographic pokerface.
23:20:12  <Naksu> <pokerface> Respect begins with double digits.
23:22:07  <DarkSSH> DaleStan: _airport_depots_* ist just the position in x,y terms of the depot offset from top-left of the airport
23:22:20  <DarkSSH> DaleStan: eh..the comment is just plain wrong (outdated)
23:22:26  <RichK> hi DarkSSH
23:23:04  <DarkSSH> RichK: yes, that is a very valid issue, the 64bit enums. There is no clear code for fixing that. That's why I'm looking or will look into having some proper fix
23:23:33  <DarkSSH> Celestar had it fixed by using 1 << 45LL or 1LL << 45, can't remember which to force enums for 64bit
23:23:43  <RichK> im trying to use a uint64 for the block, but the MAX_ELEMENTS check is barfing
23:24:20  <DarkSSH> MAX_ELEMENTS has nothing to do with blocks
23:24:29  <DaleStan> DarkSSH: Then is the length of _airport_depots_* stored anywhere, and if so where?
23:24:49  <DarkSSH> DaleStan: it's not stored anywhere, it is computed as lengthof(array)
23:26:07  <RichK> ok, the only change to code was increasing uint32 to uint64 in the relevant "airport_flags" places, then MAX_ELEMENTS got thrown on next compile... odd!
23:26:54  <DarkSSH> you need to change uint32 blocks; to uint64 blocks; as well
23:27:21  <DarkSSH> but MAX_ELEMENTS just tells me there can be a maximum of 255 positions on your airport...and that is enough for the time being ;)
23:27:32  <RichK> definitely!
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23:28:56  <Spiralistic> ln-, thanks for that link. Interesting indeed.
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23:31:23  <DarkSSH> anyone else has questions? Cause otherwise I'm off to bed :)
23:32:05  <RichK> always
23:32:30  <RichK> ill cope... its sort of a challenge this way
23:34:04  <DarkSSH> the specs are a bit cryptic sometimes and I do plan a little cleanup and some new features (possibility to choose more paths with the same destination and +32 blocks) sometime soon
23:34:21  <DarkSSH> but I'm happy too see I haven't made it totally unreadable :P
23:35:30  *** sula1 [] has quit ["good night"]
23:35:35  <DarkSSH> once
23:35:51  <DarkSSH> twice
23:35:57  <RichK> go
23:36:01  <DarkSSH> thrice
23:36:03  <RichK> cya
23:36:11  <DarkSSH> yaay, good night people :)
23:36:14  *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater
23:39:33  <KUDr> gn
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