Log for #openttd on 11th March 2006:
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00:05:22  <Bjarni> oh speaking of fire
00:05:40  <Bjarni> I heard a story about a German guy visiting Denmark
00:05:55  <Born_Acorn> he randomly ignited himself?
00:06:05  <ln-> i bet many german guys have visited denmark
00:06:18  <Bjarni> he parked illegally in the country side even though there was plenty of legal parking space nearby
00:06:25  <Bjarni> (he was German after all :p)
00:06:54  <Bjarni> then the fire brigade showed up and could not pass because he blocked the way
00:07:21  <Bjarni> since he had left his car, they decided (as usual) not to wait for him and wrecked his car to get passed
00:07:44  <Bjarni> lesson learned: do not park illegally
00:08:23  <Bjarni> he even had to pay for repaint of the fire truck, that pushed it as well as a fine for illegal parking
00:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> you think that?
00:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> i would be like "well... what are the chances this is gonna happen twice?"
00:09:08  <Bjarni> you never know
00:09:49  <Bjarni> the fact remains that he had to pay a lot of money and he lost his mean of transportation, so he had to figure out some other way of getting home
00:10:01  <Bjarni> now that's a crappy holiday :p
00:10:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that's gonna cause problems ;)
00:11:05  <Bjarni> I think it's funny because there was plenty of room to park the car in places that would not block the road
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00:19:51  <Bjarni>
00:20:02  <Bjarni> some people appears to like dangers
00:23:52  <Kjetil> "It's shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and seeing quite a few shops in my time"
00:24:44  <Bjarni> well, some people could do it :p
00:25:37  <Bjarni> <-- LOL, that is mostly the stuff you need the most during a flood :p
00:43:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i am kinda missing the point of those two pictures...
00:43:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's late
00:44:09  <Hendikins> Anyone up for a game?
00:44:44  * Eddi|zuHause2 is listening to Vanessa Carlton - Rinse
00:46:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the kind of song i could listen to all day...
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00:57:31  <Bjarni> and all night
00:57:35  <Bjarni> it's really late
00:57:42  <Bjarni> goodnight
00:58:44  <Bjarni> 	<Eddi|zuHause2>	i am kinda missing the point of those two pictures... <-- the last one, those two people appears to have raided shops to get supplies, or whatever you call a whole lot of beer and little (or nothing) else
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02:03:55  <Arghhhh> hi everyone
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07:59:42  <Tron> morning
07:59:44  <Tron> peter1138: ?
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08:15:18  <MiHaMiX> morning
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09:05:33  <peter1138> hi
09:05:51  <KUDr> hi
09:06:09  <peter1138> tron?
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09:10:53  <CIA-5> tron * r3816 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): Use existing accessors
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09:22:26  <Tron> MiHaMiX: is it true that most languages have about 70 broken strings?
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09:54:19  <Gameseeker> hello
09:55:14  <Gameseeker> I got a problem, On my stasjonary pc I can save open TTD, but on my labtop I cant, why is it, something wrong?. please help
09:55:46  <Bjarni> err
09:55:57  <Bjarni> can't is a bit short description of the problem
09:56:51  <Gameseeker> the problem is just the I cant save the game on my labtop.
09:57:11  <Gameseeker> laptop*
09:57:46  <Bjarni> well, you need write permission to save and you need to have enough disk space
09:58:35  <Gameseeker> sorry, found out of the problem
09:59:09  <Bjarni> that will be 400 kr for each started half an hour for support :p
09:59:10  <Gameseeker> hehe, so stupid of me, it was only that I couldent just "/" in the saving name. hehe
09:59:20  <Gameseeker> hehe
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10:09:17  <vasi> hi, could anybody tell me what the little green/gold/gray dot next to each train means, in the train list?
10:12:07  <Bjarni> yeah
10:12:22  <MiHaMiX> Tron: probably. the current translator is brken, and I'm working on the new translator - even in this very moment.
10:12:32  <Bjarni> it tells you if you get income or loss money on the train in question
10:12:38  <Bjarni> you want it to be green
10:12:55  <Bjarni> gray means that the train is too new to tell if it is profitable
10:14:00  <vasi> one of my trains is yellow, but making about K
10:14:23  <Bjarni> about = a bit less than
10:16:04  <vasi> ah ok
10:18:06  <vasi> thanks :-)
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10:46:37  <ln-> Bjarni, patch updated,
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10:47:44  <Qball> ln-: how do you solve problem with non utf8 filesystems?
10:48:03  <Diablo-D3> make it utf8.
10:48:14  <ln-> what problem is there with non-utf8 ones?
10:48:31  <Diablo-D3> ln-: none, non-utf8 filesystems are invalid.
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10:59:21  <ln-> Qball fell asleep.
10:59:42  <Diablo-D3> "Your mom fell asleep."
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11:01:08  <Bjarni> Diablo-D3: no "your mom" in here
11:01:12  <Bjarni> you risk getting kicked
11:01:14  <Qball> ln-: I just wondered, because if you do it propperly I think you have to convert the filename back to the configured filesystem charset
11:01:34  <Diablo-D3> Qball: yeah, but if the filesystem isnt in unicode, then somethings broken
11:01:45  *** TL|Away is now known as TrueLight
11:01:45  <Qball> Diablo-D3: no
11:01:53  <Diablo-D3> Yup.
11:02:07  <Diablo-D3> ntfs4 and 5? unicode.
11:02:20  <Diablo-D3> whatever osx uses? unicode.
11:02:29  <Diablo-D3> ext3? unicode.
11:02:53  <ln-> Qball: in what way is it not converted to the configured filesystem charset?
11:03:01  <Bjarni> OSX uses wide utf-8 for the filesystem
11:03:10  <Bjarni> don't ask me why they picked the wide kind
11:03:17  <Diablo-D3> Bjarni: ... as in utf16?
11:03:22  <Bjarni> no
11:03:27  <Bjarni> wide utf-8
11:03:35  <Diablo-D3> when someone says wide to me, I think 16-bit
11:03:38  <ln-> there's no such thing as wide utf-8.
11:03:40  <Diablo-D3> so wtf are you thinking of?
11:04:04  <Bjarni> instead of writing ñ, it writes "~n" or "n~" (I forgot the order)
11:04:18  <ln-> Bjarni: sorry, that doesn't make any sense.
11:04:18  <Diablo-D3> uh, thats not unicode at all
11:04:22  <Diablo-D3> thats dumbfuckese
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11:04:44  <Bjarni> ln-: yeah, that's what I thought, but that's what the docs says
11:05:08  <Bjarni> and I can see that it converts ä to "aì?"
11:05:34  <Diablo-D3> that sounds seriously fucking and absolutely retarded.
11:05:39  <Diablo-D3> and I refuse to believe it does that
11:06:40  <ln-> i don't believe it either.
11:07:02  <Diablo-D3> Bjarni: whatever you're on... can I get some too?
11:07:38  <Bjarni> I read it when I researched this bug about a year ago
11:07:44  <Bjarni> and now I can't find the doc again :(
11:07:47  <Qball> Diablo-D3: are you always this friendly.
11:07:56  <peter1138> Bjarni: you're making it up :)
11:07:57  <Diablo-D3> Qball: no, Im usually much worse.
11:08:03  <Tron> peter1138: no, he isn't
11:08:07  <Diablo-D3> yes he is
11:08:17  <Tron> Diablo-D3: if you have no clue, just shut up
11:08:19  <Diablo-D3> I refuse to believe such douchebaggery is going on.
11:08:19  <peter1138> unicode has combining characters, but requiring them seems... strange
11:08:42  <Tron> yes, it has combining characters and it's perfectly valid to use them
11:08:48  <peter1138> indeed
11:08:57  <Tron> in fact you have to use them if you need more complex chars
11:09:01  <ln-> Bjarni: until you find that doc, we'll have to assume that you have misinterpreted it. do you know how utf-8 works in general?
11:09:15  <Tron> like stuff with multiple diacritics
11:11:34  <Bjarni>
11:11:36  <Bjarni> found it
11:12:07  <Tron> you can represent the german ö (o with two dots above) as either the (legacy) unicode char for o whith diarhesis or as combining diarhesis followed by an o
11:12:14  <Bjarni> <ln->	Bjarni: until you find that doc, we'll have to assume that you have misinterpreted it. do you know how utf-8 works in general? <-- sure I do. I spent says researching this
11:12:22  <Qball> To reduce complexity in the B-tree key comparison routines (which have to compare Unicode strings), HFS Plus defines that Unicode strings will be stored in fully decomposed form, with composing characters stored in canonical order. The other equivalent forms are illegal in HFS Plus strings. An implementation must convert these equivalent forms to the fully decomposed form before storing the string on disk.
11:12:25  <Diablo-D3> well, apple's server is douchebagging
11:12:31  <Diablo-D3> AHAH!
11:12:35  <Diablo-D3> Bjarni: thats hfs plus
11:13:13  <Diablo-D3> so there is douchebagging implied
11:13:38  * Qball starts looking for his cluebat
11:13:42  <vasi> i suspect it has to do with OS X keeping the directory index ordered
11:13:52  <Diablo-D3> yeah
11:13:59  <Diablo-D3> but hfs plus is very broken
11:14:01  <Tron> Diablo-D3: i suggest you stop trolling now
11:14:08  <Diablo-D3> and osx doesnt defaultly use it
11:14:22  <Qball> Bjarni: can I lend your op status for just 5 seconds?
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11:14:42  <Qball> thx
11:14:47  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*i=diablo@*] by Tron
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11:14:58  <peter1138> Qball: you borrow, he lends
11:15:00  <Singaporekid> :o
11:15:15  <ln-> Bjarni: ok, i believe it now. BUT, the more important question is, does one have to care? i would assume iconv does the conversion for you.
11:16:19  <Bjarni> ln-: well, it's converted automatically when saving, but I'm not sure it's done when loading
11:16:20  <vasi> if you just use the stdio routines, i'm pretty sure that's handled ok
11:16:23  <peter1138> really, if the filesystem itself requires that, the filesystem should do the conversion...
11:16:30  <peter1138> but... *shrug*
11:17:09  <vasi> er, maybe i'm confused...but when the doc says "An implementation must..." i think it refers to an implementation of the filesystem
11:17:11  <ln-> Bjarni: it wouldn't make any sense that iconv didn't handle such situation.
11:17:26  <vasi> i was positive that the external interface *does* actually convert properly
11:17:41  <Bjarni> hmm
11:17:42  <Tron> telling iconv to convert from UTF-8 to ISO8859-15 should be enough
11:17:54  <Bjarni> what is the utf-8 code for ä?
11:17:54  <Tron> for writing though...
11:18:08  <ln-> ä (i'm speaking utf-8, am i not)
11:18:17  <peter1138> or " + a
11:18:20  <Qball> EUR
11:18:21  <Bjarni> I meant the hex
11:18:24  <Tron> Bjarni: i have no idea, because you already wrote the UTF-8 char
11:18:43  <Bjarni> I wonder how many bytes is needed to write it
11:18:49  <Tron> small a with diarhesis?
11:19:02  <Bjarni> š + a
11:19:08  <Tron> great
11:19:09  <Bjarni> like in Märch
11:19:14  <Bjarni> which was the original problem
11:19:19  <Tron> you just wrote another UTF-8 char
11:19:25  <Bjarni> hehe
11:19:32  <ln-> $ echo ä | hexdump -c
11:19:32  <ln-> 0000000 303 244  \n
11:19:34  <Bjarni> a + dot + dot
11:19:36  <Tron> <Bjarni> š + a <-- i just see garbage followed by + a
11:19:48  <Tron> <Bjarni> a + dot + dot <-- <Tron> small a with diarhesis?
11:20:02  <Bjarni> !whatis diarhesis
11:20:05  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> No match.
11:20:10  <Tron> TeX: "a
11:20:47  <Bjarni> well, that one
11:20:54  <hylje> ä
11:21:07  <Bjarni> it appears that it's 3 chars
11:21:12  <Tron> now: legacy or decomposed form?
11:21:21  <Tron> Bjarni: it's either 2 or 4 bytes
11:21:36  <Tron> legacy: one Unicode char
11:21:42  <Tron> decomposed: two unicode chars
11:22:17  <Bjarni> ahh it's hex written in 10 based numbers
11:22:22  <Bjarni> hmm
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11:22:35  <Bjarni> but it's written as 3 chars when I read it from the filesystem
11:22:39  <Tron> huh?
11:22:48  <Tron> hex written in 10 based numbers?
11:22:56  <Tron> it's either hex or decimal
11:23:14  <Tron> if you convert a hex number to base 10 you get a normal decimal number
11:23:23  <peter1138> or BCD... heh
11:23:43  <Tron> huh?
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11:26:10  <Bjarni> ln-: how did you add support for ä in terminal?
11:26:24  <Bjarni> I get 34
11:27:48  <Tron> that's octal
11:28:18  <Bjarni> yeah, but I want to see the char itself, not the octal version
11:28:36  <hylje> want a screenshot
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11:28:48  <Qball> €
11:28:50  <Qball> grr
11:29:48  <Bjarni> a screenshot is not needed as long as words can do
11:29:50  <ln-> Bjarni: i used linux actually, but i suppose .inputrc is the config file that affects your terminal's behavior with umlaut letters.
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11:30:43  <MeusH> hello
11:32:37  <MeusH> does anyone use Opera here?
11:32:40  <RoySmeding> i do
11:32:54  <MeusH> Can you set multiple tabs as start page?
11:33:03  <RoySmeding> not sure
11:33:08  <RoySmeding> haven't used it for too long, heh
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11:33:42  <MeusH> Ok. I'm still stuck to firefox and multiple tabs popping up when starting
11:33:51  <MeusH> and now seems I'm limited to one
11:33:57  <MeusH> thanks anyway
11:34:08  <RoySmeding> no problem
11:34:19  <RoySmeding> though it's usually better when you ask your question straight away :)
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11:37:11  <MeusH> do you use opera integrated IRC client right now?
11:37:42  <Hendikins> Somebody wants Firefox help?
11:37:55  <MeusH> no, I'm looking for Opera help
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11:41:14  <Bjarni> $ 34
11:41:14  <Bjarni> -bash: ä: command not found
11:41:19  <Bjarni> now this is getting funny
11:41:30  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: any news on new Wiki?
11:41:37  <Bjarni> it can print the char in the reply to what I type, but I can't type it myself
11:41:42  <MeusH> the current one is getting spammed continously
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11:44:16  <Kuja^> MeusH: just looked at it, do it like this: open the pages you want opened on start and go to File -> Sessions -> save this session (or similar, i have a german build)
11:44:31  <MeusH> okay, thank you so much
11:44:48  <MeusH> the next thing is about the pop-ups. Where can I set the filters?
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11:49:41  <Kuja^> in menu tools -> Preferences in the general tab, didn't found more than this
11:51:00  <Kuja^> bleh... i just _hate_ wikispam
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11:52:08  <Qball> yes.. wikispam
11:52:10  <Qball> always fun
11:52:16  <PAStheLoD> hi all
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11:54:35  <MeusH> that session stuff works even for IRC clinet
11:54:36  <MeusH> great
11:54:37  <MeusH> thank you
11:54:48  <Kuja^> the wiki of a friend of mine wasn't spammed for a month or something.. so i thought its gone but it isn't :/
11:54:59  <Kuja^> heh no problem
11:55:19  <MeusH> Kuja^, see Protecting_the_wiki @
11:55:33  <MeusH> it will be running on openttd wiki soon (in a few days)
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11:55:45  <MeusH> and you can check these on your friend's one, too
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11:57:30  <Kuja^> i know about this extensions. but the problem is i have no direct access to upload files there etc. and his time is limited.
11:57:44  <Kuja^> i'm "only" sysop on that wiki
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12:00:29  <MeusH> damn, I want to download the patch for UT2k4 and I need to register on some flaming gamespot
12:00:44  <PAStheLoD> it's also on atari servers
12:00:44  <hylje> google it
12:00:48  <PAStheLoD> no registering
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12:09:23  <MeusH> already registered with a bad and temp nickname ;) And I'm downloading it. 4 hours left? Damn :(
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12:50:01  <MeusH> cya
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12:58:53  <peter1138> hmm
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12:59:13  <peter1138> if an rv is on a tile directly in front of a depot, it can't find the path to that depot
12:59:38  <peter1138> even if the rv is pointing into the depot
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13:09:12  <Tron> peter1138: depot tiles are marked as unpassable and the pathfinder has to do some magic
13:09:25  <Tron> probably that magic fails if the depot is the next tile
13:10:01  <Tron> they are marked as unapssable because of several abuses of the GetTileTrackStatus() stuff
13:10:15  <Tron> that stuff simply needs an overhaul
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14:24:22  <glx> <-- should fix
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15:17:05  <magnus_1986> Hello people. How is work on 0.5.0 coming along? PBS kinks ironed out?
15:17:41  <TrueLight> I want to play PlanetSide :'( (but I don't have a buddy-key :()
15:17:42  <TrueLight> hehe :p
15:18:15  <magnus_1986> TrueLight: :'( then :p , you schizophrenic?
15:18:23  <KUDr> <magnus_1986> PBS is waiting for new pathfinder, pathfinder is in progress
15:18:28  <TrueLight> magnus_1986: no, just crazy
15:18:29  <magnus_1986> uh oh, he ops. Me sorry
15:18:41  <magnus_1986> KUDr: thanks
15:18:53  *** mode/#openttd [-o TrueLight] by TrueLight
15:18:55  <TrueLight> magnus_1986: better? :)
15:19:21  <magnus_1986> :)
15:20:11  <magnus_1986> I love OpenTTD so much. I want to contribute to its code but problem is, I have never coded anything outside of those simple behind the book exercises.
15:20:43  <TrueLight> You have to start somewhere :)
15:21:02  <TrueLight> It wasn't that at a day we just knew how to do it :) A long and slow process it was
15:22:21  <magnus_1986> TrueLight: I downloaded an image of the code off of SVN and updated a it a few times while I started to study it. But the problems i, everytime I open a file it depends on 10 more and I keep going in a circle trying to get to the starting point
15:22:36  <TrueLight> haha :)
15:22:42  <TrueLight> I know that feeling :)
15:22:50  <TrueLight> the easiest thing to do, is to just pick something to change/alter
15:22:52  <TrueLight> and start doing that
15:22:56  <TrueLight> slowly you will get used to things :)
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15:23:09  <Qball> grr I am getting trown out of a game constantly
15:24:12  <magnus_1986> ok thanks. In my free time in the summer vacation from university
15:24:55  <magnus_1986> TrueLight: what are you doing these days, like working or something?
15:26:09  <TrueLight> magnus_1986: I stopped working on OpenTTD. Now working on OpenTTD.GPMI, which makes OpenTTD _very_ modular. It looks promising :)
15:27:06  <magnus_1986> TrueLight: no I mean like going to work or studying or going to school for example
15:27:27  <TrueLight> Oh, I study
15:27:32  <TrueLight> Anyway, I try :p Haha
15:27:51  <magnus_1986> ah
15:28:06  <magnus_1986> I am in uni. Doing Civil Engineering, man it rocks, I love it
15:28:53  <TrueLight> :s Ever person loves something else, but CE? hehe ;)
15:29:09  <TrueLight> (I considered it very very boring :))
15:29:46  <TrueLight> (no offense btw :p)
15:30:25  <magnus_1986> Check out my modules for this semester: Property Economics, Land Surveying and Building Performance 1
15:30:25  *** SchAmane is now known as SchAmane_away
15:31:47  <magnus_1986> Difference in tastes of people is what makes this world so beautiful, friend
15:32:14  <Celestar> heyho
15:32:18  <TrueLight> It surely does :)
15:32:36  * TrueLight hides from Celestar
15:32:52  <blathijs> 16:15 < KUDr> <magnus_1986> PBS is waiting for new pathfinder, pathfinder is in progress <-- New pathfinder?
15:33:11  <KUDr> yes
15:33:13  <magnus_1986> uh oh, discepancy in developers!
15:33:23  <KUDr> npf is bit slow
15:33:34  <magnus_1986> blathijs: what, they didnt invite you to the meeting?
15:33:37  <magnus_1986> :p
15:33:40  <Celestar> TrueLight: why hide?
15:33:44  <Celestar> I'm hardless :P
15:33:45  <TrueLight> Celestar: you scared me :)
15:34:32  <blathijs> KUDr: And how is a new pathfinder gonna solve that?
15:34:59  * Celestar is under the impression that PBS and PF should not be mangled
15:35:18  <KUDr> <blathijs>: if it will be much faster, it is solved
15:36:10  <blathijs> KUDr: Read the actual question: How is a this new pathfinder gonna be faster?
15:36:40  <KUDr> :) it will be written so
15:36:57  <magnus_1986> why not have a pF where trains plan a route ONCE and only replan if any part of its path changes somehow?
15:36:59  <TrueLight> (me is trying not the laugh right now)
15:37:08  <blathijs> And this is only planned yet, of there is an actual idea on how to write it so?
15:37:10  <TrueLight> (not to you magnus_1986 :))
15:37:21  <TrueLight> blathijs: of = or ;)
15:37:22  <KUDr> :)
15:37:41  <blathijs> magnus_1986: because their path changes all the time (signals and stuff)
15:37:53  <magnus_1986> blathijs: hmm
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15:37:58  <KUDr> blathijs: I think it can be faster
15:38:08  <blathijs> KUDr: yes, but _how_ ?
15:38:16  <TrueLight> blathijs: confidential ;)
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15:38:57  <magnus_1986> TrueLight: Confidential + OpenSource ... Error does not compute
15:39:03  <KUDr> 1) instead of pointers to functions there will be inline functions (templates)
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15:39:16  <KUDr> 2) it will cache segment costs
15:39:28  <KUDr> 3) it will run once for multiple trains
15:39:42  <blathijs> KUDr: k, I agree the function pointers might be overly generalised
15:39:56  <Celestar> er guys.
15:40:02  <Celestar> I'm not sure that we need YAPF
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15:40:35  <blathijs> but don't think removing the function pointers will actually improve performance significantly
15:40:56  <KUDr> Celestar: we need PBS-able pathfinder that will be as fast as NPF
15:40:58  <TrueLight> YAPF?
15:41:08  <TrueLight> Yet Another
15:41:09  <TrueLight> ah :)
15:41:28  <Celestar> KUDr: see above
15:41:35  <TrueLight> Celestar: we call it NNPF
15:41:41  <blathijs> and adapting NPF to do segment caching should be possible too I guess
15:41:55  <Celestar> why does PF need to know anything about PBS?
15:42:08  <Spacks> what the hell is ed2k?
15:42:28  <TrueLight> Spacks: edonkey2000
15:42:30  <KUDr> Celestar: PF must record path to be usable for PBS
15:42:40  <TrueLight> (illegal) software distribution protocol / program
15:42:44  <blathijs> so, adapt NPF to record the path. Not much work.
15:42:45  <KUDr> and must respect reserved tracks
15:43:16  <KUDr> blathijs, then it will be slower, so copy/paste?
15:43:23  <Spacks> why is the downloads for TTDPatch in ed2k://
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15:43:31  <Celestar> KUDr: ther might be an interface between the PF module and the PBS module?
15:43:34  <KUDr> or just change (and slow it down)
15:43:43  <TrueLight> Spacks: wrong channel
15:43:53  <Spacks> oh right
15:44:02  <TrueLight> :p
15:44:06  <KUDr> Celestar: what kind of interface?
15:44:08  <Spacks> what server do i need?
15:44:24  <blathijs> KUDr: You can adapt NPF so that you only extract the parts of the path that you need
15:44:29  <TrueLight> Spacks: this is #openttd, not ttdpatch alike channel :p
15:44:33  <blathijs> KUDr: actually, recording the shortest path is trivial
15:44:40  <Spacks> oh
15:44:53  * Spacks bangs head against head
15:44:53  <TrueLight> ;)
15:45:02  <TrueLight> So I have _no_ idea why TTDPatch would use ed2k :)
15:45:24  <Celestar> KUDr: well, that needs to be defined.
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15:46:26  <KUDr> blathijs: you must record all paths as you don't know which one will be the best
15:46:41  <blathijs> KUDr: Do you know how Dijkstra/A* works?
15:47:00  <KUDr> Celestar: what kind (i.e. function pointers?)
15:47:15  <KUDr> blathijs: yes
15:47:48  <Celestar> KUDr: I'm not sure. I just know that I don't like mangling two different functions (pathfinding / track reservation) into a single "module"
15:48:27  <KUDr> Celestar: please define the term "module"
15:48:42  <blathijs> KUDr: You can record the parent node with every node
15:49:10  <blathijs> KUDr: And if you find a better route to a node, you just update the parent node
15:49:44  <KUDr> blathijs, yes, then you need array/list of nodes
15:49:46  <blathijs> and once the node is put into the closed list, you know for certain that the shortest path from the source to that node comes through the parent node (which has a parent node, etc.)
15:49:49  <KUDr> and fill it
15:50:09  <blathijs> You have that array already
15:50:17  <blathijs> you can't do A* without a list of nodes
15:50:20  <KUDr> this is what i do in nef pathfinder
15:51:05  <KUDr> then array/list of their indices/pointers
15:51:08  <KUDr> it is the same
15:51:12  <blathijs> actually, NPF currently keeps track of the path
15:51:16  <blathijs> struct PathNode {
15:51:17  <Celestar> KUDr: ok. Train moves. Train Controller finds switch. Train Controller calls pathfinder. Pathfinder polls reserved trackbits. pathfinder finds path. pathfinder pushes reserved tracks. pathfinder returns track.
15:51:19  <blathijs> (...)
15:51:23  <blathijs>   PathNode *parent;
15:51:35  <KUDr> blathijs: i know - npf is very good thing
15:51:50  <blathijs> Then why write a new pathfinder>
15:52:23  <Celestar> we still have some minor issues with NPF tho :)
15:52:25  <KUDr> coz it is much slower than needed
15:52:47  <KUDr> Celestar: what issues?
15:52:50  <Celestar> what's wrong with OPF?
15:53:12  <Celestar> KUDr: I'm not sure A* is the optimal thing for ships for example.
15:53:47  <KUDr> Celestar: it should work fine there
15:53:55  <blathijs> I think A* should be pretty ok for ships, it's just that using so many nodes per tile isn't optimal...
15:54:35  <Celestar> blathijs: well, should yes :)
15:55:02  <KUDr> blathijs: i will have only one list - binary heap with TileIndex/Tracdir as item
15:55:18  <KUDr> the rest is linked to tiles
15:55:22  <Celestar> KUDr: what is "so bad" about NPF?
15:55:44  <blathijs> KUDr:
15:55:45  <blathijs> struct AyStarNode { TileIndex tile; uint direction; uint user_data[2];
15:55:46  <blathijs> };
15:55:46  <KUDr> each track junction has extended info
15:55:57  <blathijs> Stored in a binary heap
15:56:24  <KUDr> blathijs: yes, but i need that only for openlist as priority queue
15:56:29  <Spacks> TrueLight, whats the command to remove flaura from the screen?
15:56:40  <blathijs> KUDr: And you're not keeping a closed list, or what?
15:57:18  <KUDr> closed list is replaced by remembering last visit info in tile extension (that is linked to tile)
15:57:26  <TrueLight> Spacks: flaura? Flora or fauna, but flaura?
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15:57:34  <Spacks> Flora
15:57:37  <Spacks> lol
15:57:46  * Spacks is tired :|
15:57:48  <TrueLight> :p
15:57:59  <TrueLight> But if you mean: hide the trees, press X
15:58:07  <TrueLight> or set the patch setting for inivislbe trees
15:58:11  <TrueLight> but tat is for OpenTTD
15:58:15  <TrueLight> not TTDPatch :p
15:58:19  <Spacks> I got OpenTTD
15:58:38  <blathijs> KUDr: So, you have one bit per trackdir extra info on tiles or something?
15:58:41  <Spacks> I haven't installed any TTDPatch yet
15:58:52  <TrueLight> So don't :p
15:58:54  <TrueLight> use OpenTTD :)
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15:59:20  <KUDr> blathijs: 4 bytes ~ one pointer to extension
15:59:31  <KUDr> used on junction tiles only
15:59:39  <KUDr> otherwise NULL
15:59:42  <Spacks> so its X for OpenTTD?
16:00:06  <TrueLight> Spacks:
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16:02:10  <KUDr> blathijs: another small change - i run PF in opposite direction, so i can satisfy more trains at one run
16:02:37  <KUDr> and trains plan their PF need in advance
16:04:05  <Celestar> ok how do I create a branch .. hmmz
16:04:18  <Hinrik> svn copy
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16:05:11  <blathijs> KUDr: I hope it will work out, but I doubt it
16:05:34  <KUDr> me too :)
16:05:37  <blathijs> Though a lot of optimisations result in a non-perfect pathfinder (as we have now)
16:05:53  <blathijs> But that might not be a real problem
16:06:17  <KUDr> blathijs: it will be designed so, not optimized
16:06:26  <KUDr> i let compiler to optimize it
16:07:31  <blathijs> KUDr: well, they are optimisations
16:07:49  <blathijs> not bit-level optimisations, but still optimisations
16:07:57  <KUDr> ok, but in design, not in code
16:08:18  <blathijs> ie, if you run your PF opposite and therefore plan routes before a train needs to take the actual decision
16:08:33  <blathijs> The calculated route will be outdated once the train gets to the junction
16:08:41  <Celestar> I think the biggest issue with NPF is performance in certain circumstances. it finds the paths allright :)
16:08:44  <blathijs> This won't be an issue in most cases, but might be
16:09:25  <KUDr> blathijs: yes i know, but i am not so smart to see such problems before i try it
16:09:55  <Celestar> the basic problem in general is that too many PF operations are done
16:10:06  <blathijs> Celestar: As I said, NPF is a perfect pathfinder, with performance issues. Most optimisations otoh result in approximations, which might or might not be bad
16:10:25  <Celestar> blathijs: can that not be adaptive?
16:10:57  <KUDr> adaptive = self learning ?
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16:11:15  <blathijs> Celestar: you mean it detects when the approximation is too far off?
16:11:28  <Celestar> kind of yes.
16:11:43  <Celestar> do an optimized run, if no path found, do an non-optmized run.
16:11:59  <peter1138> << ...
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16:12:55  <Celestar> blathijs: I still vote for a complete cache.
16:13:15  <Celestar> dunno if that'd work tho
16:17:51  <blathijs> The thing is, an "optimised" run would find the wrong path
16:18:06  <Celestar> blathijs: wrong?
16:18:11  <blathijs> I can't think of optimisations that would find the right path faster, or no path at all
16:18:25  <Celestar> if end_tile == desired_end_tile, then the path is acceptable
16:18:57  <KUDr> Celestar: not true
16:19:03  <blathijs> indeed
16:19:12  <blathijs> and what optimisation would you apply hten?
16:19:14  <KUDr> then we will face lot of bug reports
16:19:23  <CIA-5> celestar * r3817 /branch/cargo-packets/ (90 files in 9 dirs): -Merge from trunk: 3730:3816
16:19:35  <blathijs> Celestar: if path == shortest path, then the path is acceptable
16:19:41  <blathijs> s/shortest/cheapest/
16:19:52  <Celestar> blathijs: then you cannot optimize anything :)
16:20:30  <blathijs> sure you can
16:20:45  <Celestar> on a logic level? what?
16:21:45  <blathijs> hypothetically, you could employ a large cache and use code that invalidates the right pieces of cache at the right time
16:21:54  <blathijs> would still yield optimal solutions, but in less time
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16:22:06  <blathijs> but would not be practical (and might not be faster either)
16:22:31  <blathijs> The thing is, some optimisations give non-optimal results
16:22:34  <KUDr> this is what i try to do :)
16:22:48  <KUDr> blind way ?
16:23:05  <Celestar> what about having the stations do the pathfinding?
16:23:56  <blathijs> Celestar: You don't want all the trains between two stations take the same route
16:24:03  <blathijs> Load balancing and all
16:24:24  <Celestar> blathijs: btw, one of the problems I have with pathfinding is that a handful of ships bring down my FX-55
16:24:33  <Celestar> blathijs: who said store one route? :)
16:25:08  <blathijs> I think things could be improved if an entire new approach to pathfinding is taken
16:25:17  <Celestar> elaborate?
16:25:32  <blathijs> which explicitely knows about load balancing and multiple equivalent paths and stuff like that
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16:30:10  <CIA-5> celestar * r3818 /branch/elrail/: Created a branch for electrified railways. Work-in-progress.
16:30:13  <Celestar> great :)
16:30:24  <MeusH> hey
16:30:34  <MeusH> nice
16:30:35  <Celestar> lets get to work
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16:33:20  <peter1138> \i/.
16:33:21  <peter1138> errr
16:33:22  <peter1138> \o/
16:33:31  <Celestar> lol
16:34:23  <Celestar> so there will be at least 2 more commits today :)
16:34:24  <TrueLight> pff, downloads aren't how it used to be
16:34:26  <TrueLight> FilePlanet sucks ass
16:34:28  <Bjarni> great, now we got electric rails :D
16:34:32  <Bjarni> now we just need them to work
16:35:36  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	\i/. <-- is that an indication of an enlightened head?
16:35:48  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|food
16:37:59  <Celestar> Bjarni: be PATIENT
16:40:43  <Celestar> I wish there was an editor for diff files where one could move around whole hunks
16:42:05  <TrueLight> make it
16:42:12  <blathijs> Celestar: There probably is something I guess?
16:42:20  <blathijs> Celestar: I think vim has some kind of diff mode?
16:42:32  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:42:55  <Celestar> blathijs: I mean like "remove hunk"
16:43:03  <peter1138> wtf
16:43:15  <peter1138> the cheats window is b0rked
16:43:26  <peter1138> Increase money by £2,267,752,732,288,979,712
16:43:49  <blathijs> Celestar: You can pretty much just remove chunks from diff files
16:44:17  <Celestar> blathijs: I know
16:44:25  <blathijs> It's just the removing of an individual change from a chunk that poses problems
16:44:30  <Celestar> but not with a single button :)
16:44:36  <blathijs> true
16:47:14  <Celestar> that's what I meant :)
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16:56:43  <CIA-5> celestar * r3819 /branch/elrail/ (13 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:56:43  <CIA-5> Feature: Added a new railtype for electrified railways (elrails), engine types are adjusted accordingly.
16:56:43  <CIA-5> Notes:
16:56:43  <CIA-5>  -When loading old maps, all railways are converted to elrails, otherwise electric engines would be stuck.
16:56:43  <CIA-5>  If anyone has a better idea, I'm open for suggestions.
16:56:44  <CIA-5>  -Currently there is no visual distinction between electric railways and conventional ones. Be patient.
16:56:46  <Celestar> there we go
16:56:48  <CIA-5>  -conventional vehicles can use electrified railways
16:56:53  <Celestar> now for the more difficult part
16:56:59  * Celestar goes debugging his drawing code.
16:57:07  <hylje> mm
16:57:22  <Celestar> maybe I should commit some alpha-0 version?
16:57:28  <hylje> should elrails have some relation with power plants
16:57:45  <Singaporekid> :o
16:57:50  <hylje> if only cosmetic
16:58:15  <peter1138> no
16:58:29  <TrueLight> Celestar: let me know when you want binaries of it ;)
16:58:41  <hylje> hmm
16:58:46  <Celestar> TrueLight: not yet today probably.
16:58:55  <Celestar> unless peter1138 does some tremedous work on it :P
17:00:05  <hylje> would it be fundamentally possible to have a "public transport company" slowly connecting towns with roads and such
17:00:18  <TrueLight> yes
17:00:38  <peter1138> hylje: that's what you are  :)
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17:00:59  <hylje> players do whatever they wish to be profitable
17:01:16  <hylje> that public stuff doesnt do profit, it just builds misc. stuff
17:01:19  <peter1138> not much different from public transport...
17:02:34  *** Xeryus|food is now known as XeryusTC
17:02:44  <hylje> it would make sure the "forgotten" parts of teh map would get developed, although slowly
17:04:41  <|Jeroen|> wouldn't it be more logical that all towns are connected in the beginning ?
17:05:15  <|Jeroen|> i doubt there would be a town in 1900 that had no roads to another town
17:06:00  <hylje> thats my point. although towns will be separated at start, it would develop connections between them eventually
17:06:18  <CIA-5> tron * r3820 /trunk/ (smallmap_gui.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c): Be a bit more strict with types: use special types instead of generic byte and don't fill arbitrary data into inappropriate types
17:06:29  <|Jeroen|> maby more types of roads wouldbe nice
17:06:37  <|Jeroen|> highways and sand roads
17:06:46  <hylje> also some decoration such as power lines between towns and power plants
17:07:04  <|Jeroen|> maby intigrate simcity :-)
17:08:13  <peter1138> maybe spell it maybe
17:08:20  <Celestar> k guys I'm outta
17:08:28  <peter1138> bye
17:08:57  <CIA-5> celestar * r3821 /branch/elrail/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Add: A very very early version of a drawing code. No bug reports yet please.
17:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yay! elrails ;)
17:09:02  <Celestar> there you go
17:09:04  <Celestar> keep working
17:09:09  <TrueLight> Celestar: I have a bug in the drawing!!
17:09:09  <Celestar> I'll do some more tomorrow.
17:09:09  <TrueLight> :p
17:09:15  <TrueLight> sorry :)
17:09:23  * Celestar puts TrueLight onto the "users" list :P
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17:10:04  <Celestar> I'll do some more work tomorrow
17:10:08  <Celestar> er.
17:10:14  <Celestar> double-statement.
17:10:39  <Celestar> peter1138: feel at home in the branch for the next couple of hours. still a buncho problems left on flat tiles.
17:13:16  <MeusH> Celestar, have you used free tiledata space, and/or you extended the map array?
17:13:30  <peter1138> no
17:13:52  <peter1138> it's just a new railtype
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17:19:00  <peter1138> bug! it doesn't compile ;)
17:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> new as in really new or new as in replaces monorai/maglev?
17:19:31  <peter1138> new
17:19:45  <MeusH> but the railtype must be stored somewhere
17:20:04  <peter1138> correct
17:20:43  <MeusH> oh, 4 railtypes need 2 bytes, and 3 railtypes need 2 bytes, too, right?
17:21:02  <peter1138> what?
17:21:05  <MeusH> so there was a chance for one more railtype info?
17:21:17  <peter1138> we can have 16 rail types
17:21:22  <MeusH> like 00 railway 01 monoral 10 maglev 11 electrified railway
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17:22:25  <MeusH> peter1138, so how is this stored?
17:22:41  <MeusH> I thought there are two bytes to store this data
17:22:48  <MeusH> seems there are four, right?
17:23:08  <peter1138> the railtype is stored in 4 bits
17:23:19  <peter1138> that gives 16 railtypes
17:23:41  <MeusH> oh, yeah, I confuse english words for bit and byte
17:23:43  <MeusH> sorry
17:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> your language has other words for that?
17:26:07  <MeusH> bit and bajt. No difference in speaking
17:26:14  <MeusH> it's probably /me dumb
17:26:20  <MeusH> eh?
17:26:21  <peter1138> Celestar: when adding files, actually add them? ;)
17:26:28  <Eddi|zuHause> *no commwent*
17:26:53  <MeusH> but I write byte instead of bit, dunno why
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17:41:38  <MeusH> reinstalling windows again :(
17:41:39  <MeusH> cya
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18:10:53  <Born_Acorn> erails stuff! woot.
18:11:09  <peter1138> it's a snake!
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18:13:50  <MeusH>  \ o /
18:13:52  <MeusH> hey
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18:41:13  <MeusH> am I really here?
18:41:34  <BurtyB> no
18:41:48  <stavrosg> naah
18:45:57  <MeusH> thanks
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18:47:31  <French_Tycoon> hi everyone
18:47:43  <MeusH> hey
18:48:03  <French_Tycoon> i m just rediscovering the game
18:48:14  <French_Tycoon> used to play a little when it camed out
18:48:55  <French_Tycoon> y a t il un francais dans la salle ? ;)
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18:59:03  <French_Tycoon> can someone tell me hox to know the cost of batiments before building them, and or how to know the cost of a tunnel before building it ?
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18:59:16  <Qball> French_Tycoon: hold shift
18:59:39  <French_Tycoon> Qball: i try it now
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19:00:20  <French_Tycoon> haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
19:00:34  <French_Tycoon> thanks a lot Qball  !!!!
19:00:46  <French_Tycoon> exactly what i was looking for :)
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19:03:26  <French_Tycoon> it dont works for rail ?
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19:06:43  <French_Tycoon> sory, it works, must hav wrong doint it first time
19:06:44  <French_Tycoon> thanks
19:15:13  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: any progress on the wiki?
19:15:15  <MeusH> can I help?
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19:17:49  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: no progress done, and thanks, but you cannot help yet
19:18:04  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: except for.. saving the spamlist of our wiki
19:18:21  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: since i'd like to load a bit fresher snapshot of the current wiki
19:18:45  <MeusH> you mean, to note what to put to the blacklist, or to clear the wiki from the spam?
19:19:38  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: save down to your local computer the wiki's spam-url blacklist
19:19:55  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: because the current DB will say byebye :)
19:20:39  <MeusH> the wiki = the "old" wiki?
19:21:19  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: no, the wiki-dev
19:21:35  <MeusH> doesn't the wiki-dev contain just "szatan" and "lofasz"?
19:21:44  <MeusH> anyway, I'll save that
19:21:47  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: ahh, meanwhile I checked and it's pointless to save, you're right
19:21:55  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: so you don't need to save that :D
19:21:59  <MeusH> yes
19:23:24  <MeusH> tell me if there's something todo
19:24:14  <MiHaMiX> okay, I'll count on you ;)
19:24:19  <MeusH> Bjarni: I was thinking about the "favourite servers" in OTTD. There is [servers] block in openttd.cfg, but these are mixed with global servers. How about splitting it? I was planning a patch like that but I need to know if people would be interested
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19:35:11  <MeusH> does anyone here use opera integrated IRC client?
19:35:30  <MeusH> I'd like to know if there is a way to log the chat messages
19:35:42  <MeusH> if not, I'll switch back to a typical IRC client
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19:38:34  <TrueLight>
19:38:36  <TrueLight> lazy ass :p
19:39:30  <TrueLight> just an other 6 hours till 2 GB is downloaded
19:39:36  <TrueLight> and then you have a 10 mbit connection
19:39:38  <TrueLight> stupid shit
19:52:06  <MeusH> seeyaa
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20:52:52  <peter1138> hmm, signal bug!
20:57:08  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: fix that! :)
20:57:21  <peter1138> i could do
20:57:43  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: do! :)
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21:13:45  * Brianetta returns from the sickbed of doom
21:14:17  <Brianetta> Four days of abdominal cramps and ten-minutely diarrhoea really lends itself to losing weight!
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21:15:20  *** Cheery_ is now known as Cheery
21:15:25  <RoySmeding> Brianetta: fun
21:15:41  <Brianetta> Nope
21:15:44  <Brianetta> Unfun!
21:16:06  <Brianetta> It's the first time in my life I have had paper chaffing down there
21:16:13  <Brianetta> Didn't know that was even possible
21:17:00  <BurtyB> you paint such a good picture Brianetta
21:17:28  <Brianetta> (:
21:17:33  <Brianetta> I ate today
21:17:38  <Brianetta> and stuff
21:17:40  <Brianetta> I went out
21:22:42  <Brianetta> So anyway
21:23:08  <Brianetta> Now I'm not either writhing on the bed in agony or moaning that I want to die in the bathroom...
21:23:20  <Brianetta> I've finally restarted my nightly!
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21:25:27  * peter1138 fiddles with 2cc gui
21:25:38  <peter1138> maybe i should make it a bit wider
21:25:44  <peter1138> for non-english translations...
21:26:50  <peter1138> oof, yeah :/
21:27:03  <peter1138> finnish is pretty wide
21:27:15  <peter1138> pink = vaaleanpunainen
21:28:25  <peter1138> all this stuff should be dynamic to fit o_O
21:28:56  <Brianetta> lol @ Finnish pink
21:37:58  <ln-> nothing wrong with it
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21:41:27  <Tron> <--- wtf?
21:41:46  <Hinrik> lol
21:41:52  <BurtyB> lol
21:42:09  <BurtyB> you should change the priority to critical
21:42:16  <MiHaMiX> lol :DDD
21:44:03  <hylje> nice bug
21:45:34  <peter1138> lol
21:47:12  <peter1138> right, vaaleanpunainen is the longest colour i found
21:49:35  <peter1138> (and it now fits)
21:50:10  <MiHaMiX> :DD
21:50:18  * MiHaMiX is quite happy now :)
21:50:34  * MiHaMiX implemented the search functionality into the new WebTranslator :)
21:50:43  <SpComb> baah
21:54:42  *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away
21:56:49  <peter1138> note: when adding strings, save the file before trying to use them...
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22:00:05  <peter1138> note: it takes fscking ages to recompile everything :(
22:00:13  <hylje> get more procs
22:00:23  *** MeusH [] has left #openttd []
22:00:29  <peter1138> still going
22:00:32  <peter1138> only just finished deps
22:01:10  <hylje> its really fun to install gentoo from scratch too
22:01:12  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
22:01:16  <MeusH> hey
22:01:21  <hylje> if you enjoy looking at compiler output, that si
22:01:38  <MeusH> cya
22:01:39  *** MeusH [] has left #openttd []
22:02:15  <peter1138> hylje: did that
22:02:17  <peter1138> got bored
22:02:20  <peter1138> put debian back on
22:02:41  <peter1138> mind, this is compiling with cygwin under win xp at the moment
22:02:51  <peter1138> it's quite a bit slower than under linux
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22:05:32  <peter1138> finished!
22:05:36  <hylje> GZ
22:05:37  <peter1138> 10 minutes o_O
22:06:24  <Hinrik> lol
22:06:30  <Hinrik> that's long
22:06:47  <Hinrik>  * games-simulation/openttd-0.4.5
22:06:47  <Hinrik>         Emerged at: Fri Feb 24 13:51:17 2006
22:06:47  <Hinrik>         Build time: 57 seconds
22:07:41  * peter1138 kicks Hinrik
22:09:29  <ln-> is it possible to draw a sprite vertically flipped?
22:10:58  <MiHaMiX> hylje: a whole gentoo from scratch? maybe i'll try that sometime :)
22:11:36  <hylje> not really whole
22:11:38  <hylje> but most of it
22:12:50  <MiHaMiX> Hinrik: what box do you have?
22:13:07  <ln-> i have a quick and dirty patch for the critical bug!
22:13:10  <Hinrik> laptop with Pentium M 1.7GHz
22:13:17  <ln-> see for yourselves:
22:14:11  <MiHaMiX> lol :D
22:15:22  <ln-> don't blame me that they will also get a third ear, it's hardly noticeable.
22:16:12  <hylje> omg
22:16:33  <Hinrik> as long as she's only wearing two earrings, the bug is fixed :P
22:17:52  <ln-> it's not my bloody idea that the ear is part of the earring sprite. :)
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22:24:19  <MiHaMiX> :D
22:32:22  *** Jenkz [] has quit []
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22:35:29  <ln-> i still don't hear the lovely sound of an svn commit...
22:35:46  <BurtyB> ear ear
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22:41:52  <MiHaMiX> :DD
22:42:18  <hylje> no not really
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22:46:19  <MiHaMiX> well, good night folks :)
22:46:34  <hylje> really?
22:46:41  <Fujitsu> 'night MiHaMiX.
22:47:02  <MiHaMiX> night :)
22:49:03  <Celestar> back
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22:50:52  <peter1138> wb
22:50:54  <peter1138> can you fix it? :p
22:51:09  <Celestar> what? :P
22:51:15  <peter1138> elrails.c
22:51:20  <hylje> everything
22:51:35  <Celestar> peter1138: what's wrong with it? :P
22:51:43  <peter1138> you didn't... add it ;p
22:52:11  <Celestar> er WHAT?
22:53:07  <peter1138> night night :)
22:53:29  <CIA-5> celestar * r3822 /branch/elrail/elrail.c: -Fix: er.... sorry. Forgot to add a file
22:53:31  <Celestar> sorry :P
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23:18:04  <Born_Acorn> Hmm this erails business, is it possible to have one gantry spanning multiple tracks? Or will it be like TTDPatch with a wire to each track
23:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine that to be difficult...
23:20:01  <Eddi|zuHause> although it would be cool ;)
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23:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause> different sprites for single-track, double-track and multi-track catenaries
23:23:26  <Born_Acorn> Although, thinking about it, it may just not be the effort for the eyecandy it would provide
23:23:32  <Born_Acorn> +worth
23:23:47  <Born_Acorn> Although it still would be cool if it was like that :p
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23:33:49  <Brianetta> BurtyB: Cork in ze ear
23:34:28  <Brianetta> Born-Acorn: Shouldn't be hard
23:34:31  <Brianetta> because
23:34:42  <Brianetta> thre's a similar function in the rail fences
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23:49:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i thought about that, too, but i think for catenary that needs to be expanded a little further than just checking if the adjacent tile is rail also...
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