Log for #openttd on 23rd March 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:08  <blathijs> DarkSSH: Didn't you go to sleep an hour ago?
00:00:14  <blathijs> Fujitsu: does it work?
00:00:37  <Fujitsu> I'm on 28.8kbps downstream at the moment, 73% complete.
00:00:50  <blathijs> Fujitsu: if it works, tell DarkSSH or Bjarni to release
00:00:52  <blathijs> I'm off now
00:00:54  <Fujitsu> OK.
00:00:54  <Fujitsu> Bye.
00:01:17  *** gathers [] has quit ["Lämnar"]
00:01:38  <Bjarni> eta?
00:02:03  <Fujitsu> A couple of minutes.
00:02:32  * Fujitsu stabs OptusNet a few times.
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00:03:02  <Fujitsu> Installing...
00:03:05  <Bjarni> !insult OptusNet
00:03:06  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni tells OptusNet: Why don't you give me your address so I can go and see where a semi-trained chimp with a limp lives when its not banging its paws on the keyboard?
00:03:15  <Fujitsu> Thankyou :)
00:03:20  <Fujitsu> !slap OptusNet
00:03:21  <jmp_ghli> >Fujitsu> fujitsu burries OptusNet deeply under an 200 Watt AT powersupply.
00:03:27  <Fujitsu> Better.
00:04:16  <Bjarni> except, I think they use more than 200 Watt
00:04:43  <glx> igor only use old hardware :P
00:04:59  <Bjarni> heh
00:05:11  <Bjarni> which means he will not do the release builds or ?
00:05:58  * Fujitsu is suspicious.
00:06:48  <orudge> Wow, it's been a month since I last updated my SVN
00:06:54  <orudge> and around 400 SVN revisions have been made
00:06:55  <Fujitsu> :O
00:06:56  <Fujitsu> How dare you.
00:07:13  <Born_Acorn> 0.4.6 already? I was expecting a few more years.
00:07:16  <Bjarni> Fujitsu: want to hear something funny?
00:07:23  <Fujitsu> OK...
00:07:31  <Fujitsu> Bjarni, the package works, by the way :)
00:07:35  <Bjarni> I downloaded the .deb in like 6-7 sec
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00:08:10  <Fujitsu> Lucky.
00:08:16  <Bjarni> what CPU is it made for?
00:08:23  <Fujitsu> i386.
00:08:28  <Fujitsu> !insult OptusNet
00:08:29  <jmp_ghli> >Fujitsu> fujitsu tells OptusNet: They say truth is stranger than fiction. Look, your mother gave birth to you.
00:08:57  <Fujitsu> !insult Bjarni's fast internet connection
00:08:58  <jmp_ghli> >Fujitsu> fujitsu tells Bjarni's fast internet connection: You can't get married to your sweetheart because there's a law against it.
00:09:30  <Bjarni> err, actually the CPU question was a dumb one
00:09:35  <Bjarni> the filename contains i386 :p
00:10:15  <glx> Bjarni: it's late, np ;)
00:10:21  <Fujitsu> Hahah
00:10:42  <Bjarni> ok, now it's uploaded and added
00:11:09  <Bjarni> and I will go to bed
00:11:12  <Bjarni> goodnight
00:11:21  <glx> night
00:11:24  <Bjarni> tomorrow we will add a MorphOS binary
00:11:33  <Bjarni> if tokai shows up
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00:13:08  <blathijs> good
00:13:14  <blathijs> thanks offline-Bjarni :-)
00:13:18  * blathijs is off for real now
00:13:19  <Fujitsu> Hahah
00:13:21  <Fujitsu> Bye/
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01:03:30  <RichK> DarkSSH : ping
01:03:44  <glx> he's sleeping
01:03:50  <RichK> ah ok
01:03:55  <RichK> maybe you can help!
01:04:16  <glx> it depends
01:04:23  <glx> what is your problem?
01:04:31  <RichK> ive made a mod to TGP so you can set the noise seed in the config file
01:04:53  <glx> with 'S' flag?
01:04:57  <RichK> but when i compile, it barfs on industry_cmd.c
01:05:01  <RichK> yup, with S
01:05:19  <glx> what error?
01:05:42  <RichK> complaining that structure has no member named _patches.oil_refinery_limit
01:06:03  <RichK> which is one of my new vars, but it was working last night!
01:06:24  <glx> show me the diff
01:07:07  <RichK>      if ((type != IT_OIL_RIG || TileHeight(tile) == 0) &&
01:07:07  <RichK>                DistanceFromEdge(TILE_ADDXY(tile, 1, 1)) < _patches.oil_refinery_limit)   return true;
01:07:24  <glx> I mean full diff
01:07:32  <RichK> okies... pm?
01:07:32  <glx> maybe you removed something
01:07:39  <glx> direct mail
01:07:42  <RichK> i added one line to settings.c
01:10:14  <RichK> okies sent
01:10:51  <RichK> its maddenning, cos i didnt change anything near there - other than neatened up the white space
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01:12:25  <glx> you missed variables.h
01:13:18  <RichK> ah - i know... ok... dillo brain here!
01:14:00  <RichK> i removed the var for noise_seed from there, and since i thought all had gone, reverted... oops
01:15:02  <glx> indeed you just needed to move noise_seed to patch struct
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01:16:10  <RichK> embarrassing :) :">
01:16:30  <RichK> yeah thats got it compiling
01:16:33  <glx> a little coding error :P
01:16:56  <RichK> laziness - i didnt check all of variables.h when i changed it
01:17:35  <glx> svn diff is your friend for that
01:19:23  <RichK> lol - yup, that worked... i just need to do the "if its zero, randomise" code, and then its dedicated-server ready :)
01:20:01  <glx> should not be too hard :)
01:20:27  <RichK> yup, i think ill embed it in the landscape routine... make it really solid
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01:23:52  <RichK> yup, works :)
01:29:47  <RichK> ok, new update sent - this should work fully now
01:34:53  <RichK> gn
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01:38:32  <EternalDecoy> can anyone help me with my OTTD, i cant get my router to let me host a server..
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01:40:15  <glx> redirect port 3979 (udp)
01:41:22  <EternalDecoy> alright
01:41:44  <EternalDecoy> which port do i set as the trigger port, and which as the public port? or the same for both?..
01:41:56  <glx> same for both
01:43:04  <EternalDecoy> k
01:43:05  <EternalDecoy> thanks
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06:30:46  <CIA-5> tron * r4047 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: Remove two calls to FindLandscapeHeight() and some confusing use of the comma operator
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06:46:10  <peter1138> hmm
06:46:16  <peter1138> tab does not fast forward irc...
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07:43:32  <Tron_> peter1138: i've beaten the normal pathfinder to plan over bridges
07:43:47  <peter1138> cool
07:44:34  <Tron_>
07:44:35  <Tron_>
07:56:48  <Tron_> peter1138: npf.c:577
07:56:51  <Tron_> can this ever be true?
07:57:16  <Tron_> compare with line 530
07:57:48  <Tron_> nvm, else case 569
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08:08:33  <Celestar> hey peops
08:09:33  <Celestar> peter1138: art thou around?
08:09:49  <peter1138> maybe
08:10:36  <Celestar> I wanted to give you a diff :)
08:11:49  *** Xeryus|sleep is now known as XeryusTC
08:15:29  <Celestar> that is the basic idea I had.
08:16:52  <Celestar> ideas/objections?
08:18:35  <Tron_> without the diff this is hard to tell
08:19:00  <Celestar> bah sworry. I try to dcc to "Tron"
08:22:03  * peter1138 mutters at trowsers that shrink
08:22:22  <Tron_> Celestar: does this update the /right/ cached power?
08:22:28  <Tron_> i.e. that of the train head
08:24:15  <Celestar> good q. at least it works for stations, crossings and normal tiles.
08:24:29  <Celestar> weird *ponders*
08:26:01  <Tron_> Celestar: it doesn't look right at all
08:26:09  <Celestar> Tron_: I'll checking
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08:31:10  <Celestar> Tron_: the other idea was to only take into account what railtype the first vehicle is on.
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08:38:01  <Celestar> but ..
08:38:25  <Celestar> I currently have little time, so it'd be great if someone else could deal with the problem at least until Saturday.
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09:12:52  <MiHaMiX> ever wondered why coffeine is a poison? look at this:
09:13:04  <MiHaMiX> s/why/whether/
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09:15:19  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4048 /website/templates/login.tpl: - [website]: Change the style a bit for the login page
09:16:29  <peter1138> hmm
09:16:46  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4049 /website/templates/nightly.tpl: - [website]: Add an item about the nightly-build logs to the nightly page
09:17:02  <DarkSSH> afaik this was already there for ages, just don't want it to be local change only
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09:20:47  <Celestar> hm.
09:20:49  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4050 /website/includes/ - [website]: Add category Contact and Donate
09:21:23  <Celestar> peter1138: so, will you have time till tomorrow evening?
09:21:48  <peter1138> looking at it now
09:22:06  <Celestar> great. forget the diff, it does update the wrong vehicle, as Tron pointed out. the idea still remains.
09:22:40  <peter1138> tbh, i already did ;)
09:22:50  <Celestar> ;)
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09:25:39  <peter1138> hmm, changing the v->u.rail.railtype stuff too
09:26:18  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4051 /website/ (default.php4 default.php5 index.php): - [website]: Use associative arrays to fetch the data, should at least be more readable. Also enable the email-address-confuscator for database-entries
09:31:31  <Celestar> peter1138: if you have questions => PM :)
09:32:26  <Celestar> peter1138: especially the pathfinder are giving me headaches.
09:33:35  <Celestar> peter1138: otoh, can I have a look at what you've done concerning custombridgeheads?
09:37:42  <peter1138>
09:38:35  <Celestar> ah
09:39:14  <Celestar> Tron_: where you you going to store the bridge middle stuff? .mextra?
09:47:09  * peter1138 ponders saving the 2cc array
09:47:33  <Celestar> not in the map please :)
09:48:19  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4052 /website/ (default.php4 default.php5 index.php post.php): - [website]: Rename querycount to more mysql-close num_rows and add function affected_rows to return the count touched by a non-SELECT command.
09:50:15  <Celestar> guys.
09:50:31  <Celestar> if a town builds a bridge currently, who is the owner? and where is the town index stored?
09:50:49  <peter1138> heh, no, not in the map :-)
09:51:02  <DarkSSH> town is the owner, owner is in bridge-owner, index is calced dynamically
09:51:20  <Celestar> ok that's all I needed.
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10:00:49  <Celestar> hey this is simple :)
10:01:01  <peter1138> what is?
10:01:44  <Celestar> I have an idea about bridgeheads
10:02:28  <peter1138> hmm?
10:03:12  <Celestar>
10:04:09  <Celestar> I even have a more .. radical approach ..
10:05:00  <Celestar> we have free tile classes.
10:06:28  <Celestar> internally, MP_RAILBRIDGEHEAD and MP_ROADBRIDGEHEAD would be identical to MP_RAILWAY and MP_ROAD apart from the 6 bits that are required to store bridge information.
10:07:11  <Celestar> (basically the same as the text file above, but m2 bit F would be in the tile type.
10:07:36  <peter1138> hmm
10:08:01  <Celestar> then all the pathfinders and stuff will not have to do very special routines for the heads.
10:08:25  <Celestar> only the trackbit in direction of the bridgehead would wormhole to the corresponding bridge head.
10:09:22  <Celestar> which is a very simple if branch
10:09:23  <peter1138> you think we can fit the needed information for bridges on there?
10:09:31  <Celestar> peter1138: we need 6 bits.
10:09:45  <peter1138> 4 bits for type, the other two?
10:10:03  <Celestar> directional information
10:10:19  <peter1138> yes, of course
10:10:36  <peter1138> and will this fit with tron's work...
10:10:46  <Celestar> that's the beauty of it.
10:10:48  <peter1138> :)
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10:10:57  <Celestar> it even allows bridge middle parts over bridge heads.
10:11:12  <peter1138> hmm
10:12:08  <peter1138> what about slope?
10:12:18  <peter1138> you can have flat ends or sloped ends
10:13:38  <peter1138> oh, i see
10:13:42  <peter1138> it's a new tile type
10:13:46  <peter1138> hmm
10:14:06  <peter1138> (does it need to be? heh)
10:14:53  <Patrick`> ... why don't bridges just work like tunnels
10:15:07  <Celestar> Patrick`: as in?
10:15:16  <Patrick`> the middle bits not actually "existing" but just images, and the trains not being invisible
10:15:22  <Celestar> peter1138: we need the bridge head to compute the bridge type, bridge section and bridge height.
10:15:24  <Patrick`> et voila, multiple bridges crossing each other
10:15:31  <Patrick`> and signals underneath
10:15:35  <Celestar> Patrick`: that's what Tron's working on actually.
10:15:41  <Patrick`> in the same way that tunnels have signals atop them
10:15:45  <Celestar> not with the crossing stuff, but the rest.
10:15:45  <peter1138> Patrick`:
10:16:03  <Celestar> peter1138: is that Tron's diff?
10:16:08  <peter1138> yeah
10:16:16  <Patrick`> if tweaked right, it would be visually identical
10:16:32  <Patrick`> cool
10:16:48  <Patrick`> and not even ugly foundation blocks below the pontons
10:17:15  <Celestar> Tron_: What say you to the idea? ;)
10:17:22  <Patrick`> it might need tweaking since you could potentially run a rail through the middle of a pontoon
10:17:37  <Patrick`> in that image, if the diagonal track were 1/2 tile to the right it'd intersect the bridge
10:17:52  <Celestar> theoretically, it wouldn't
10:18:08  <Celestar> it would just go past the pylon.
10:18:24  <Patrick`> I think I see what you mean
10:18:34  <Patrick`> there's enough of a gap in the way the sprites are
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10:18:36  <Celestar> this will have to be tested.
10:18:50  <peter1138> it's already tested, heh
10:18:52  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4053 /website/templates/footer.tpl: - [website]: Update copyright notice for 2006
10:19:00  <Celestar> ok ;)
10:19:05  <Patrick`> bridge atop bridge?
10:19:28  <peter1138> in my old cumbersome bridge patch
10:19:35  <Celestar> Patrick`: is a visual problem.
10:19:50  <peter1138> there's just enough room to squeeze by
10:19:54  <Patrick`> Celestar: yeah, that's what I meant
10:20:03  <Celestar> Patrick`: so... => later
10:20:08  <Patrick`> what about the other bridge sprites, like the diamondey bridge
10:20:11  <Patrick`> wossitcalled
10:20:13  <peter1138>
10:20:16  <Patrick`> steel thingy, you know
10:20:30  <peter1138> the steel girder one could be tricky, yeah
10:20:34  <peter1138> but it's just visual ;p
10:20:39  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4054 /website/ (default.php4 default.php5): - [website]: Fix some errors for the PHP4 code using MySQL and two more cases of associative array result fetching.
10:20:39  <Celestar> peter1138: that'd need new sprites
10:21:06  <Patrick`> girders! that's the one
10:21:09  <peter1138> actually we can just tell it not to draw the extra bits depending on the tile type
10:21:27  <peter1138> the extra bottom bit of the steel girder is actually a special case...
10:21:47  <Patrick`> so rather than having "there's a bridge here!" we have "there's a magic flying train. oh, and some sprites"
10:21:54  <peter1138> Celestar: tron's bridge work is far more flexible than mine, and a lot smaller too ;(
10:23:40  * Celestar pats Tron
10:23:52  <Celestar> peter1138: so what do you think about the Tile Type division stuff?
10:24:13  <peter1138> will it work? ;)
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10:24:23  <peter1138> i discussed bridgeheads with tron, heh
10:24:29  <Celestar> peter1138: it would.
10:24:41  <peter1138> i couldn't think of a way to avoid special cases everywhere...
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10:24:58  <Celestar> only the drawing code needs 2 branches: the current one (with ramps) and if no ramps => normal road/rail drawing code.
10:25:03  <Celestar> peter1138: what kind of special cases?
10:25:21  <peter1138> Celestar: well, my patch is a big bunch of special cases
10:25:36  <peter1138> yes, it works, but i wouldn't be sorry to see something better :)
10:25:40  <peter1138> signals... for a start...
10:25:42  <Celestar> well, my approach is much fewer special cases :)
10:26:01  <peter1138> does it even need new tile types? can it work with street & railway?
10:26:16  <Celestar> you mean crossing on bridge head? that ought to work.
10:26:28  <peter1138> no, i mean using the normal tile types
10:26:34  <Matt-W> Does this allow signals on bridges, or are we not wanting that
10:26:35  <Celestar> that would work.
10:26:37  <peter1138> using free bits in them
10:26:51  <peter1138> Matt-W: no, it makes bridges not really exist (well, they do, but not much)
10:27:09  <Celestar> peter1138: but later on, we can add signals easily methinks.
10:27:11  <Matt-W> hmm
10:27:19  <Matt-W> so it solves three-quarters of the problem
10:27:19  <peter1138> more easily than now, yes
10:27:45  <Celestar> as we just need 4 bits for signals on bridges.
10:27:50  <Celestar> 2 bits for bridge middle parts.
10:27:54  <Celestar> makes 6 bits.
10:27:58  <Celestar> we have those in mextra
10:29:15  <Celestar> but lets first tron finish his work.
10:29:37  <Celestar> if the comboconsist problem on elrails is finished, we merge elrails into mainline.
10:29:50  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4056 /website/login.php: - [website]: Oops, forgot to update the name of the login form. Sorry
10:31:04  <Celestar> because for ripping apart TUNNELBRIDGE, I'd like to have Tron's work finished.
10:31:12  <Celestar> or at least one of his diffs.
10:31:33  <Celestar> peter1138: will we have some branch for the custombridge stuff?
10:31:54  <DarkSSH> ok if you guys want you can change your password now for the website
10:31:58  <DarkSSH> which I recommend :)
10:32:27  <Celestar> what website? ;)
10:32:59  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4057 /website/templates/login.tpl: - [website]: Make the style consistent between login and change password
10:33:24  <Celestar> oh we released yesterday?
10:34:10  <DarkSSH> no, yesterday
10:34:35  <DarkSSH> am I blind or something?
10:34:38  <MiHaMiX> DarkSSH: can't you test your changes before commit? :P
10:34:43  <DarkSSH> how come I read 'yesterday' as 'today'?
10:34:48  <Celestar> I dunno
10:34:56  <Celestar> DarkSSH: where do I change the passwd??
10:34:56  <DarkSSH> MiHaMiX: I have tested them locally, just too many diffs :P
10:35:02  <Tobin> Mmmm elrails.
10:35:04  <DarkSSH> Celestar: login, at the bottom
10:35:09  <DarkSSH> but first login
10:35:14  <Tobin> Celestar: You're my new ottd hero.
10:35:19  <DarkSSH> oops I forgot you MiHaMiX :)
10:35:22  <Celestar> Tobin: I am? why? :)
10:35:23  <DarkSSH> MiHaMiX: want one?
10:35:25  <MiHaMiX> DarkSSH: can i have an account? :)
10:35:28  <MiHaMiX> DarkSSH: yes :)
10:35:36  <Tobin> Celestar: elrails :)
10:35:43  <Celestar> Tobin: oh :)
10:35:47  * Matt-W thinks the OpenTTD website is shiny
10:36:01  <Tobin> All I need now is for KUDr to fix PBS.
10:36:13  * MiHaMiX thinks it's not, but never mind :D
10:36:57  <Tobin> Hmm, no change in the PBS branch for a month. :(
10:37:16  <Matt-W> wasn't it waiting for something?
10:38:04  <Tobin> Matt-W: The PBS branch was waiting?
10:38:25  <DarkSSH> yes for PF
10:38:29  <Matt-W> I thought I saw something about waiting for something else to be done before working on PBS again
10:38:30  <DarkSSH> which KUDr is doing first
10:38:38  <Matt-W> and indeed I did :-)
10:38:58  * peter1138 wonders what kudr did to compile c++ stuff
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10:40:47  * Matt-W would rather like to know that too so he can do it for the GUI
10:41:03  <Matt-W> not that I can't do my own way of building C++ into the program, but why have two?
10:41:21  <peter1138> well
10:41:36  <peter1138> i wrote the newgrf resolver stuff in c++ as a test
10:41:40  <peter1138> and linked that in
10:41:50  <peter1138> just wondering what he did :)
10:41:53  <Matt-W> heh
10:41:58  <Matt-W> also it'd save me some effort :-)
10:41:59  <peter1138> hmm, the makefile doesn't seem to reference his cpp files
10:42:46  <Matt-W> Of course got to finish my chapter first
10:42:49  <peter1138> lies
10:43:07  <Matt-W> As usual I'm afflicted with the inability to write coherently at the critical time
10:45:37  <Celestar> Tron_: Request for Contact
10:46:01  <peter1138> hmm, we could, *shock* use the mailing list ;)
10:46:11  <Celestar> we have a mailing list? ;)
10:46:34  <DarkSSH> we do?
10:46:36  <DarkSSH> ;P
10:47:15  <peter1138> c++ spritegroup/resolver:
10:47:21  <peter1138> (not cleaned up)
10:47:27  <Celestar> Tron IS working too much on uni stuff :P
10:47:59  <TL|Away> michi_cc: ping
10:48:59  <peter1138> (btw, it doesn't work atm)
10:49:43  <TL|Away> Programmers don't die; they GOSUB without RETURN.
10:49:58  <MiHaMiX> TL|Away: hi
10:50:11  <MiHaMiX> TL|Away: i'm happy to inform you that svn_cb.php is working fine :)
10:50:16  <TL|Away> good
10:50:19  <Celestar> TL|Away: -Wall -Werror prevents that however.
10:50:52  <Celestar> "control reaches end of non-void function" :P
10:51:11  *** TL|Away is now known as TrueLight
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10:57:26  <Matt-W> Celestar: yes but you try getting your parents to retroactively compile you with the right flags
11:02:10  *** SchAmane [] has quit ["Ciao"]
11:02:36  <Celestar> Matt-W: hm ... point taken.
11:03:24  <Matt-W> On TV last night there was a pregnant woman wearing a big t-shirt which had an arrow pointing to her bump that said 'under construction'
11:03:32  <Matt-W> I thought that was moderately amusing
11:04:05  <Celestar> LOL
11:04:14  <Celestar> I love the term "moderately amusing" :)
11:04:32  <Matt-W> Yes, it takes up so many more syllables than 'funny'
11:04:36  <Celestar> ^^
11:04:43  <Matt-W> And gives you a whole extra word for the word count
11:05:02  * Matt-W is thinking like a NaNoWriMo participant again
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11:09:37  <Patrick`> so tempted to run ottd in the computer lab here
11:09:48  <Patrick`> but it's the day before the end of term and everyone has deadlines
11:09:55  <Patrick`> oh the nasty looks I'd get
11:11:12  <Celestar> ^^
11:11:57  <Matt-W> hehehe
11:12:00  <Matt-W> it'd be worth it for that
11:12:01  <Patrick`> and I need to rdesktop home due to lack of sshd, to get my latest savegame
11:12:11  <Patrick`> and I can't remember if I turned off my boobie wallaper or not
11:12:11  <Matt-W> I have to run a lab session tomorrow, it's deadline day
11:12:20  <Matt-W> also last day of term, so everyone's been trying to get out of it
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11:12:48  <Patrick`> I suppose I could mount c: over cifs to my shell server
11:13:06  <Patrick`> that'd just be excessive though
11:13:09  <Matt-W> hee
11:13:59  <Celestar> hm..
11:14:15  <Celestar> my elrails code seems shorter than The Patch's one.
11:18:21  <Patrick`> bah
11:18:28  <Patrick`> I can't remember what my latest savegame is called
11:18:41  <Patrick`> and the autosaves confuse me
11:19:22  <Patrick`> I could always start a new game
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11:20:20  <CIA-5> celestar * r4058 /branch/elrail/elrail.c: [elrail] Cleanup: Remove a variable that we don't really need
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11:21:21  <Patrick`> on the other hand, I do have over an hour
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11:21:25  <Patrick`> with nowt to do
11:23:24  * peter1138 ponders profilation
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12:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> [23.03. 12:21] <Patrick`> I can't remember what my latest savegame is called <- how about sorting by Date/Time? :p
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12:19:15  <Patrick`> Eddi|zuHause: it's odd
12:19:28  <Patrick`> savegame 11 is at 11am and savegame 12 is at 1am
12:19:30  <Patrick`> on the same day
12:19:38  <Patrick`> and it's not a rollover, all the others are in the right order
12:19:45  <Patrick`> (autosave)
12:19:55  <Patrick`> and I didn't save before I left this morning, it's in pause
12:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause> so you just need a memory dump and play the game in there ;)
12:21:22  <Patrick`> windows
12:21:28  <Patrick`> and I forgot to set up sshd
12:23:17  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why is it that the top 100 music is always 99% rubbish?
12:23:28  <Patrick`> because it's chosen by consumers
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12:42:06  <Matt-W> Because it's dictated by marketing people
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13:12:02  <Bjarni> I detected one thing we forgot when we released
13:12:14  <Bjarni> now I added 0.4.6 to flyspray
13:12:19  <peter1138> heh
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13:24:11  <CIA-5> truelight * r4059 /trunk/configure: -Fix: add --dedicated flag to configure
13:30:00  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4060 /trunk/os/macosx/Makefile:
13:30:00  <CIA-5> -Codechange: [OSX] made the release target (in os/macosx/Makefile) easier to use since it gives the release disk image the right name automatically
13:30:00  <CIA-5>  it now uses REV instead of RELEASE, which means RELEASE is not needed to be set manaully anymore
13:30:00  <CIA-5>  it also automatically adds "-jaguar" when making a build aimed at OSX 10.2 (codenamed jaguar)
13:30:42  <Bjarni> it's even faster to write it now one time than to do this manually when releasing next time
13:30:52  <Bjarni> just one release and I have saved time :)
13:30:57  <TrueLight> Bjarni: I wish all targets did that :(
13:31:39  <Bjarni> it needs hdiutil to work though
13:31:42  <Bjarni> so no crosscompiler
13:32:16  <Bjarni> I didn't add the need for it now though
13:32:23  <Bjarni> it was needed from the very beginning
13:33:15  <TrueLight> :)
13:33:20  <TrueLight> I believe, my new scripts finally are done
13:33:34  <Bjarni> but I have wondered about other targets
13:33:37  <TrueLight> currently testing i386 targets
13:34:07  <Bjarni> maybe we could make a general rule on what to add, and then add OS specific targets, that relies on the generic one
13:34:16  <Bjarni> making it easier to keep it up to date
13:34:24  <TrueLight> Bjarni: the compile-farm has exactly such a script :)
13:34:29  <TrueLight> and I will commit that to OpenTTD SVN in a moment
13:34:33  <TrueLight> (just it is CF depending)
13:34:40  <Bjarni> CF?
13:34:42  <TrueLight> but at least you guys can control it yourself, what hsould be packed and what not
13:34:44  <TrueLight> CompileFarm
13:34:48  <Bjarni> ahh
13:35:11  <TrueLight> [14:32:38] Error-report of compile 'openttd:nightly' with rule 'i386'
13:35:11  <TrueLight> cp: cannot stat `openttd': No such file or directory
13:35:11  <TrueLight> cp: cannot stat `lang/*.lng': No such file or directory
13:35:11  <TrueLight> [14:32:39] Closing error-report
13:35:14  <TrueLight> something went wrong ;)
13:35:15  <TrueLight> hehe
13:36:49  <TrueLight> btw, is there any real need to keep such a big archive of past nightlies?
13:36:57  <peter1138> heh
13:37:22  <Kalpa> 4060 meep
13:38:37  <Celestar> back
13:40:35  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4061 /trunk/os/macosx/Makefile: -Codechange: [OSX] removed some long dead flags for universal binary building and removed an absolute path for hdiutil (I don't thin anybody will have it at a non-default place, but still)
13:41:37  <Bjarni> 	<TrueLight>	btw, is there any real need to keep such a big archive of past nightlies? <-- I don't think so
13:41:53  <Bjarni> if we are low on disk space, then delete them
13:42:13  <TrueLight> LOL!
13:42:16  <Bjarni> and even if we aren't, then delete everything older than say a week or a month
13:42:16  <TrueLight> low on disk space?
13:42:39  <Bjarni> I don't know how much space we are allowed to use
13:42:40  <TrueLight> we have some..... room :p
13:43:10  <TrueLight> currently it is 8.2 GB total
13:43:19  <TrueLight> that is for 200412 for most targets
13:43:38  <TrueLight> (some go back till 200406, some are just there from 200508
13:43:40  <Bjarni> we don't need THAT much
13:44:35  <Celestar> where's trop :o
13:44:39  <Celestar> tron
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13:46:35  <peter1138> trop!
13:47:23  <Matt-W> sucked into a singularity created by building two bridges across each other with a tunnel entrance and a train signal underneath?
13:49:45  <peter1138> heh
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14:00:11  <TrueLight> MiHaMiX: I am so glad that proc06 is fast :)
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14:03:17  <Bjarni> <TrueLight>	and I will commit that to OpenTTD SVN in a moment <-- that's a long moment :p
14:03:30  <TrueLight> Bjarni: yeah, you can scale them in my intial system
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14:11:53  <magnus_1986> Good Evening channel
14:12:19  <Celestar> peter1138: ping
14:14:13  <peter1138> pong
14:14:27  <Celestar> tron's here
14:14:41  <magnus_1986> Aankhen``: hi
14:14:53  <Celestar> tron: we wanted to discuss some bridge stuff.
14:15:10  <egladil> hmm. the openttd package in gentoo is still
14:15:21  <Celestar> egladil: wow that is up-to-date
14:15:58  <CIA-5> celestar * r4062 /branch/elrail/ (BUGS elrail.c table/elrail_data.h): [elrail] Further code cleanup, remove a function an array that is of no real use. This also fixes a bug with line ends
14:16:06  <Celestar> one bug down.
14:16:07  <TrueLight> Bjarni: I only now start adding all the targets, so it takes some time :p
14:16:17  <peter1138> "a function an array" ?
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14:17:04  <magnus_1986> I think the Intelligence Agency meant and
14:17:36  * Vornicus ponders that in the end you can have all four modes of transport - and more than 2 dozen different vehicles - in one square.
14:17:36  <tron> < Celestar> one bug down. <--- 100 bugs in the code, 100 bugs in the code! Fix one bug, compile it again. 101 bugs in the code, 101 ...
14:17:43  <tron> (repeat until 0)
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14:17:51  <Vornicus>
14:17:55  <Celestar> tron: I've come up with an idea about bridge heads.
14:18:05  * tron listens
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14:19:50  * tron still listens, but hears nothing from Celestar
14:19:58  <Celestar> tron: I'm planning to rip apart MP_TUNNELBRIDGE. resulting in MP_TUNNELPORTAL, MP_ROADBRIDGEHEAD, MP_RAILBRIDGEHEAD (names tbd). Then each bridgehead can have exactly the same tile layout as the mother-tile (i.e. MP_STREET and MP_RAILWAY), which should result in 1) much simpler code, 2) arbitrary configurations at end tiles, 3) bridges of bridgeheads. There should also be much fewer special cases.
14:21:15  <Celestar> this should also dramtically simplify things for the pathfinder and vehicle controllers
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14:22:11  <tron> hmhm, i don't see the "less special cases" part
14:22:38  <Celestar> tron: because the pathfinder treats bridge heads exactly like it treats normal tiles.
14:22:46  <peter1138> less special cases over my custom bridge heads patch
14:22:57  <tron> Celestar: uh, no?
14:23:05  <tron> it's still a different tile type
14:23:09  <Celestar> it is yes.
14:23:10  <peter1138> but gtts exists for a reason, heh
14:23:27  <tron> and you have exactl to treat it different, because you can "bream" to the other side of the tunnel/bridge
14:23:37  <Celestar> yes.
14:23:43  <Celestar> I still think the code will be more readable than now.
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14:24:37  <Celestar> or at least I'm sure it will not be less readable ;)
14:25:02  <tron> peter1138: i'm not sure whether GTTS produces more special cases than it solves
14:26:22  <tron> afk, toilet
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14:28:21  <Celestar> tron: well I think it is worth a try or not?
14:29:00  <tron> re
14:29:11  <tron> mom, tel
14:29:32  <tron> re
14:30:01  <tron> one thing is certain: we need an unified approach for arbitrary stuff under bridges + custom bridge heads
14:30:25  <Celestar> tron: yes. moving bridge center part out of MP_TUNNELBRIDGE is a vast part of it imho.
14:30:30  <tron> i don't want to do one of these two things and then completly redo it when doing the other
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14:31:17  <Celestar> agree as well.
14:31:20  <tron> can we do one of these two before the other? With the other in mind, of course
14:31:28  <Celestar> that's why I think we should have a branch.
14:31:52  <Celestar> tron: I think your part is first.
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14:32:36  <peter1138> yes
14:32:52  <tron> Celestar: btw: i managed to tell the normal pathfinder to plan over bridges (though it's not finished)
14:33:59  <tron> so changing middle parts should be first? ok
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14:34:11  <peter1138> yeah
14:34:11  <tron> i think we can do that in multiple managable steps:
14:34:20  <peter1138> that's a lot cleaner than, say, my custom bridge heads stuff
14:34:32  <Celestar> tron: but still I think we should do it in a branch instead of passing around diff.s
14:34:43  <tron> - tell the pathfinder(s) to skip bridges, not walk them tile by tile
14:35:26  <tron> - change the vehicle state for being on a bridge (hardest part)
14:35:41  <tron> - remove special cases to handle vehicles on bridges
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14:36:05  <tron> - change the way bridge middle parts are encoded (more or less done)
14:37:00  <Celestar> tron: but to have peter1138 and me having a look and stuff, we'd like to have a branch ;)
14:37:45  <tron> okay
14:37:53  <Celestar> that's be great
14:40:06  <tron> another point of interest: signals
14:40:18  <peter1138> they're too high :(
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14:41:02  <tron> yes, that too (maybe they aren't, bridges are just artificically too low)
14:41:11  <tron> signals on bridges
14:41:12  <Celestar> we could draw low signals
14:41:27  <Celestar> signals on bridge fit in mextra, they need only 4 bits
14:41:34  <tron> 4?
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14:42:07  <Celestar> 3 type, 1 status
14:42:17  <Celestar> hm... one present
14:42:23  <Celestar> 5
14:42:48  <tron> well, different types are rather pointless
14:43:09  <Celestar> you mean Presignal stuff?
14:43:36  <tron> yes
14:44:03  <peter1138> 1 present, 1 status, 1 semaphore/lights...
14:44:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no... bridge exit might want to have a presignal
14:44:08  <Celestar> I dunno it might have it its use.
14:44:20  <Celestar> last tile of bridge == presignal entry
14:44:31  <Celestar> especially with custombridgehead.
14:44:37  <peter1138> or presignal exit even...
14:44:45  <Celestar> tron: currently, which tile types use mextra?
14:45:07  <tron> all
14:45:17  <Celestar> ok
14:45:17  <tron> it's just 2 bits
14:45:17  <Celestar> so there are 6 bits lefts?
14:45:22  <tron> yes and no
14:45:27  <tron> the other 6 bits don't exist
14:45:33  <Celestar> they still don't?
14:45:47  <tron> they exist in the struct Tile
14:45:48  <Celestar> I thought that was changed ages ago?
14:45:53  <tron> but they aren't saved
14:46:08  <Celestar> well, THAT can be changed without too much effort, can't it?
14:46:12  <tron> the struct Tile change didn't change the savedgame format
14:46:23  <tron> look in my diff
14:46:42  <peter1138> 6 bits, but the bridge middle uses 4 already
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14:47:11  <Celestar> tron: I thought the idea was to store the bridge info in mextra?
14:47:48  <tron> it was just a temporary solution
14:48:09  <tron> yikes, normal signals are 15 pixels high
14:48:25  <Celestar> ouch
14:48:25  <TrueLight> LOL! TrueTenacity wrote: "OTTD 4.6 was released a few days ago... but if you use the ELRails patch you're using the old engine for the game... so you're faced with one or the other till a new version is released for the new engine..."
14:48:36  <TrueLight> what a piece of bullshit TrueTenacity wrote :)
14:48:54  <Celestar> tron: I'll draw new signals. any height requirement?
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14:49:46  <tron> Celestar: one height level is 8 pixels...
14:49:57  <tron> signals that high would look awful
14:50:07  <tron> or _very_ tiny
14:50:29  <Celestar> tron: we could affix the signal onto the bridge body.
14:50:40  <Celestar> which is not uncommon.
14:50:43  <peter1138> will we add space, or try to squeeze the bridge middle bits into existing tile space?
14:51:09  <Celestar> we need to extend mextra to full 8 bits mesathinks
14:52:05  <tron> there is enough space in all relevant (ie. clear, road, rail, water) tile types
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14:52:25  <tron> the upper 4 bits of m3 or m4 are good candidates
14:52:39  <tron> stuff there has to move around anyway (see my TODO)
14:52:53  <Celestar> we need more bits at some point.
14:54:50  <tron> there's the ground type issue for railways (depots store them at a different location than the other railway subtypes)
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14:55:06  <tron> i want to get rid of the explicit "this tile has signals" subtype
14:55:36  <tron> level crossings need to swap owners
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14:56:02  * black_Nightmare seem to be really liking openttd a lot...thanks to whoever came up with the idea for it in first place of all ... heheheh
14:56:13  <Celestar> there were plans to do a uint64 for the map stuff, remember?
14:56:36  <peter1138> 23:42 < black_Nightmare> say that reminds me....what anyone think of the idea of adding empty/half-loaded/fully-loaded graphics support?
14:56:47  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: that's... already there...
14:57:17  <tron> Celestar: about 500 more direct map accesses to go...
14:57:21  <black_Nightmare> peter...yeah? hmmm sorry...*makes a note to try make a coal line and watch the cars*
14:58:36  <tron> peter1138: should custom bridge heads be able to start bridges in more than one direction?
14:58:50  <peter1138> that would be an excellent feature
14:59:09  <tron> mom, fetching water
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14:59:47  <szycha> hello there!
15:00:21  <Celestar> hi
15:00:41  <tron> re
15:00:49  <Celestar> tron: so .. finsh the map accessors first or finish the bridge stuff first?
15:01:01  <tron> i could do bridge middle parts with a single bit, or rather 2 bits
15:01:29  <Celestar> 2 bits.
15:01:36  <Celestar> one bit X direction, one bit Y direction :)
15:01:54  <szycha> I need a little explanation - I was unable to find at In vehicle list there are kind of round lights in colors: yellow, gray, red or green. What that colours really mean?
15:02:42  <Celestar> I think it is the profit display
15:02:59  <peter1138> Celestar: you want crossing bridges now? ;p
15:03:17  <tron> Celestar: the good part about the accessors is, that you only have do fiddle in the *_map.h files to change something, and there you know exactly the semantics of the stuff. you don't have to hunt dozens of direct accesses and check if they are the correct stuff, because something else uses the same bits, but in a different context
15:03:22  <tron> wow, that was long
15:03:57  <tron> peter1138: it is a technical possibility at no extra cost
15:04:06  <peter1138> hmm, it is
15:04:10  <peter1138> graphically... hmm...
15:04:24  <tron> peter1138: instead of saving 1 bit for present + 1 bit for direction you have 1 bit X bridge + 1 bit Y bridge
15:04:25  <peter1138> what about the bridge piece bits?
15:04:32  <peter1138> yes, that makes sense
15:04:34  <tron> those could be calculated
15:04:42  <peter1138> thought it was expensive?
15:04:45  <tron> just walk to both ends
15:04:55  <tron> depends on the definition of "expensive"
15:05:00  <peter1138> hmm
15:05:08  <tron> it is more expensive than storing the piece explicitly
15:05:41  <tron> but blitting the bridge sprite propably takes 100 times as long
15:05:45  <peter1138> hmm
15:05:55  <peter1138> ok
15:06:12  <peter1138> so the main difficultly with crossing bridges is the graphic element
15:06:37  <black_Nightmare> oh yeah..I had a little fun with multiply engines in one train
15:06:43  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: multiple
15:06:44  <tron> yes, bridge graphics are extremly high
15:07:18  * peter1138 attempts to work out what this authentication system is doing
15:07:32  <peter1138> "being on crack" is one candidate
15:07:52  <tron> cantilever bridges are 48 pixels high _above_ the road/rail of the bridge
15:08:00  <black_Nightmare> and let me say this....having one passenger train with three (two unique) engines is kinda a bit amusing to watch.  two A4 steam on front and one UU37 diesel shoving the rear ;-)
15:08:34  <peter1138> you'll get over it
15:08:39  <tron> 60 pixels altogether
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15:08:47  <Celestar> peter1138: for such a configuration, we need new sprites I guess.
15:08:50  <tron> that's 7.5 height levels
15:09:05  <black_Nightmare> actually had two A4 to start with and two mail cars and a few passenger cars but when the station started getting more passengers fast so had to add a bunch more coaches but then the train was being slow so I put this new diesel on the rear
15:09:10  <Celestar> also each bridge type might want an below_ and above_clearance set.
15:09:13  <black_Nightmare> had a few sloped tracks between both stations so
15:09:13  * Brianetta wobbles everybody
15:09:27  <tron> that's half of the maximum height difference possible on the map
15:09:28  <Celestar> for example suspension bridge should not have ANYTHING above them.
15:09:50  <Celestar> tron: there will be cantilever sprites for crossing bridge specifically I guess.
15:09:56  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r4063 /website/mixedfeed.php: - [website]: Fix the RSS feed generator which confused RSS-reades with multiple double entries due to some newsitems shifting to the archives. Use the xml field <guid> to identify each entry uniquely
15:10:08  <Brianetta> Celestar: Suspension bridges should be capable of immense single spans, too
15:11:05  <black_Nightmare> peter...I only have one little gripe with signals .. I wonder if its a bug or not but the thing is...
15:11:26  <tron> crossing bridges would be very incompatible with custom graphics
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15:11:47  <black_Nightmare> on certain diagonal (spell?) tracks I can't even put down any signals at all sometimes..oftenly have to move one or two tiles before it'll let me put signals down :-/
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15:12:18  <tron> atm it can be assumed that bridge graphics may be arbitrarily high
15:13:16  <tron> black_Nightmare: you can only have signals on tiles withoput intersecting rails
15:13:55  <Celestar> well.
15:13:55  <Celestar> roadmap:
15:13:55  <Celestar> 1) move ALL map access to _map.[ch] files.
15:13:55  <Celestar> 2) create bridge branch
15:14:21  <black_Nightmare> tron..I already knew that
15:14:27  <black_Nightmare> its not that
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15:15:13  <tron> Celestar: 0) finish elrails
15:15:16  <black_Nightmare> eg lets say I have at least 7 diagonal tracks long section and try put a signal down on the second track refuses but I move to third or fourth track and suddenly it goes down fine << that kind of bug?
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15:16:46  <DarkSSH>
15:16:55  <black_Nightmare> oddly I know ttdx never ever did that
15:16:56  <DarkSSH> any recent doings?
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15:18:13  <Celestar> tron: I'm busy doing so.
15:18:46  *** DaleStan__ is now known as DaleStan
15:18:57  <DarkSSH> blathijs: something that happened because of the station-exit thing?
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15:20:32  <DarkSSH> great
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15:20:48  <DarkSSH> r4023 broke NPF even more than it already is/was
15:21:24  <tron> black_Nightmare: i can put signals on every single tile. which direction is "diagonal"?
15:21:24  <Noldo> it's completely broken now?
15:21:46  <DarkSSH> Noldo: if you consider being only able to turn LEFT when leaving a station not-broken, then not
15:23:04  <black_Nightmare> tron..heh sorry I sometimes forgot how to spell some words sometimes...I mean -diagonal-
15:23:36  <tron> maybe i wasn't clear, so let me repeat:\
15:23:44  <tron> which direction is diagonal?
15:23:57  <tron> diagonal with respect to what?
15:24:04  <Celestar> er?
15:24:05  <Celestar> DarkSSH: I can safely assume that 4023 is in 0.4.6 ?
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15:24:06  <black_Nightmare> well in openttd its when you go straight north-south or east-west
15:24:14  <peter1138> which is north? ;)
15:24:21  <black_Nightmare> top of screen
15:24:26  <DarkSSH> Celestar: yes, it was supposed to fix NPF planning through the backside of stations
15:24:37  <tron> just clicking anywhere on the tile won't work
15:24:43  <tron> you have to hit the track
15:24:53  <glx> DarkSSH: the fix works for road but it broke train
15:25:04  <DarkSSH> glx: checking road atm
15:25:15  <DarkSSH>
15:25:19  <DarkSSH> although this says otherwise
15:25:46  <Celestar> DarkSSH: i smell a 0.4.6a
15:26:04  <peter1138> d'o
15:26:06  <peter1138> h
15:26:12  <tron> did anybody ever test that change?
15:26:21  <tron> *sigh*
15:26:40  <black_Nightmare> tron....oh ic...sorry :">
15:26:49  <DarkSSH> both blathijs and glx tested it saying good
15:26:54  <DarkSSH> glx: busses are also broken
15:27:05  <black_Nightmare> I mean I just click random place of the tile in ttdx ... guess I need to readjust to openttd's ways
15:27:16  <glx> I should try 0.4.6 :)
15:27:43  <DarkSSH> glx: trust me doesn't work. Build a loop before the depot, it takes that instead of shorter way.
15:28:22  <Celestar> tron: apparently not for side effects
15:28:48  <tron> Celestar: even more than one test case would have revealed that
15:28:54  *** szycha [] has quit ["[BX] Reserve your copy of BitchX-1.0c19 for the BeOS today!"]
15:29:02  <Celestar> I cannot see the problem at the mome.t
15:29:12  <Celestar> busy with some elrail pylon being drawn where they shouldn't
15:34:49  <glx> DarkSSH: ok npf don't run when vehicle just exit form depot
15:34:50  <CIA-5> truelight * r4064 /trunk/configure: -Fix: fixes for configure to accept spaces in params. This are mostly bypasses because bash really does suck in handling spaces and " stuff :(
15:36:47  <SimonRC> hmm
15:37:33  <SimonRC> Is there any support in the code for a mode in which track is colored by track block?
15:37:53  <SimonRC> arrows on tracks which can only be traversed one way would be nice too.
15:37:54  <SimonRC> hmm
15:38:13  <tron> one-way signals?
15:38:16  <DarkSSH> that's what signals are for
15:38:45  <SimonRC> I mean that the arrows would be merely graphical, and *deduced* from teh signals
15:38:59  <DarkSSH> like in lomo?
15:39:01  * black_Nightmare likes the canal and locks :p
15:39:13  <SimonRC> DarkSSH: ?
15:39:22  <black_Nightmare> already have one canal crossing land....lot easier than trying dig out a length trough just for water to be able to fill in
15:39:24  <black_Nightmare> :p
15:39:27  <SimonRC> Ah, but the main one is signal graphics that differe by more that one pixel.  That's merely graphics, though.
15:39:33  <DarkSSH> SimonRC: locomotion
15:39:50  <SimonRC> Is that still buyable?
15:39:58  <SimonRC> Is it very like TTD?
15:40:13  <DarkSSH> oh, blessed are you for you do not know the evil that is lomo
15:40:52  <SimonRC> do tell
15:41:03  <SimonRC> I don't want to waste money, do I?
15:42:15  <Celestar> so ...
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15:42:43  <SimonRC> DarkSSH: what, specifically, is wrong with it?
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15:43:39  <DarkSSH> SimonRC: everything
15:44:03  * SimonRC looks for some screenshots.
15:44:12  <DarkSSH> ok, those are not that bad
15:44:24  <tron> DarkSSH: nah, not everything, the power plant graphics are nice
15:44:35  <glx> DarkSSH: <-- we missed an else :)
15:45:00  <black_Nightmare> 'lomo'?
15:45:33  <SimonRC> black_Nightmare: "<@DarkSSH> SimonRC: locomotion"
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15:46:16  <Celestar> glx: that'S the whole problem?!
15:47:14  <glx> yes we forgot the case where a vehicle goes out of a depot
15:49:08  <Celestar> tron: is it against coding guidelines to but if () foo; else bar; on a single line?
15:49:29  <black_Nightmare> oh ok
15:49:41  * Brianetta wants to be able to drive a train like in Locomotion
15:50:01  <black_Nightmare> I tried a 60-minutes-trial of locomotion once...think I kinda liked that game but undecided (partly with there stock hard to find around here)
15:50:14  <black_Nightmare> kinda amusing to make spiral bridges tho lol
15:50:18  <black_Nightmare> to our own
15:50:19  <DarkSSH> hmm do you think its advisable to buy a second-hand XBOX and set it up as a linux server?
15:50:27  <DarkSSH> would save me leaving my pc on the whole time
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15:51:41  <black_Nightmare> darkssh...quick question: why not a mini-itx system?
15:51:44  <black_Nightmare> ;)
15:52:05  <DarkSSH> because a second-hand XBOX is only ~50 euro
15:52:23  <DarkSSH> ok, 50-80 euro
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15:55:28  <Bjarni> that's a very good question and I have to say: I have no idea how good an XBOX would work for stuff like that
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15:58:02  <valhallasw`zzz> DarkSSH: you can run linux on it, so it should be useable
15:58:42  <valhallasw`zzz> I think the latest C!T got an article about xbox media centers, but i'm not sure if you're afraid of the C!T ;)
15:59:25  <DarkSSH> valhallasw`zzz: yes, that's why I brought it up
15:59:34  <DarkSSH> read the article and though that it might be a good idea
15:59:42  <DarkSSH> although the article sucked
16:01:33  <valhallasw`zzz> I would prefer a PS2 though
16:01:40  <valhallasw`zzz> but iirc they are *a bit* more expensive
16:01:56  <valhallasw`zzz> I wonder wether sony will release an oss PS3 dev pack
16:02:06  <Bjarni> tokai|ni, tokai|mdlx: we released 0.4.6 yesterday, but we miss a MorphOS binary. Can you fix that?
16:03:14  <CIA-5> truelight * r4065 /trunk/configure: -Fix: the configure now knows --host-cflags
16:05:42  <valhallasw`zzz> DarkSSH:
16:06:49  <DarkSSH> lol
16:07:09  <valhallasw`zzz> even the japanese are laughing at us :p
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16:15:44  <black_Nightmare> quick question do you force the smaller airport to stay?  (I only can see option for the large one alone now)
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16:18:26  <DarkSSH> black_Nightmare: in the patches window always allow small airports or something
16:18:41  <black_Nightmare> oh..hmm let me check
16:22:25  <black_Nightmare> hm drats must only work for new map....oh well ty for pointing out the patch dialog option
16:22:40  <DarkSSH> yeah, it's not recursive
16:23:14  <CIA-5> truelight * r4066 /trunk/configure: -Fix: oops, forgot to remove a debug line
16:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> AAH... my mouse is driving me nuts...
16:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause> somehow my LMB broke
16:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause> now when i click left, it sometimes (i.e. often) makes a doubleclick instead
16:24:21  <tokai|3> Bjarni: oh.
16:24:24  <tokai|3> Bjarni: sure.
16:24:27  <black_Nightmare> eddi..try swap buttons for now? ;)
16:24:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and click&drag is pretty impossible
16:24:37  <SimonRC> What's the difference between "Unload" and "Transfer"?
16:24:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a really good question ;)
16:25:00  <black_Nightmare> simonrc.....
16:25:13  <black_Nightmare> 'unload' would force it to unload to the station (even if not in demand)
16:25:25  <DarkSSH> TrueLight: how is 4066 a fix? ;)
16:25:44  <black_Nightmare> as for 'transfer' I haven't bothered poking there yet but I think it would be to wait till another vehicle comes in then move the load to *that* vehicle?  <<< someone tell me if I made a good guess or not
16:25:55  <Eddi|zuHause> right... that was it... "unload" sells the goods if they are accepted by the station, "transfer" forces them to stay
16:26:05  <SimonRC> ah, ok
16:26:09  <SimonRC> odd, but ok
16:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause> (i think)
16:26:13  <black_Nightmare> eddi..really?  even in ttdx 'unload' would leave the goods at the station
16:26:24  *** glx is now known as glx|away
16:26:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, behaviour of that varied between different versions of TT
16:26:39  <Vornicus> Unload leaves goods at stations where they are not accepted.
16:26:48  <black_Nightmare> vornicus...yeah that
16:27:16  <TrueLight> DarkSSH: it fixes weird results configure gave
16:27:23  <TrueLight> And it fixes the fact I didn't remove it
16:27:31  <TrueLight> And I can think a lot more reasons why it is a fix
16:27:34  <TrueLight> it aint an add, nor an update
16:27:37  <TrueLight> not even a feature
16:27:42  <TrueLight> although I could have marked it as such...
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16:28:07  <Vornicus> Transfer never sells goods; in some cases, a train with transfer orders will pick up stuff it just transferred.  In this case, use transfer AND unload, which turns the command to "transfer and leave empty"
16:28:25  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:28:26  <Patrick`> my last niggle is how pax are handled
16:28:33  <Vornicus> I don't remember what transfer/load does, but.
16:28:34  <Patrick`> in the real world, going A-B-C-D makes the most money
16:28:37  <DarkSSH> TrueLight: we should name it a TLight
16:28:46  <Patrick`> not A->D, B->D, C->A
16:28:49  <DarkSSH> - TLight: shouldn't have done what I did not do just now
16:28:50  <Patrick`> assuming they're in a line
16:28:52  <DarkSSH> :P
16:29:01  <TrueLight> DarkSSH: funny :s
16:30:12  <tokai|noir> hmm.. how do i check out the 0.4.6 release exactly now?  it is rev 4046?
16:30:29  <TrueLight> tokai|3: tags/0.4.6 ;)
16:32:37  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Connection timed out]
16:32:59  <tokai|noir> TrueLight: no idea how to check out a specific tag:)
16:33:29  <TrueLight> svn checkout svn:// 0.4.6
16:33:30  <TrueLight> :p
16:33:31  <DarkSSH> tokai|noir: svn co svn://
16:33:36  <DarkSSH> lama
16:33:58  <TrueLight> *spuug*
16:34:04  <tokai|noir> well.. svn up -rev 0.4.6 will do too?
16:34:10  <TrueLight> nope
16:34:13  <TrueLight> it aint cvs
16:34:14  * valhallasw`zzz slaps TrueLight :>
16:34:30  <TrueLight> !slap valhallasw`zzz
16:34:32  <jmp_ghli> >TrueLight> truelight runs over valhallasw`zzz with 10 meters of 93 ohm coaxial cable.
16:34:39  <valhallasw`zzz> zomg
16:34:42  <valhallasw`zzz> !slap TrueLight
16:34:47  <TrueLight> :p :p
16:34:48  <TrueLight> !reg
16:34:49  <jmp_ghli> >TrueLight> Regisztracio magyarul: | registration in english:
16:34:50  <valhallasw`zzz> slow bot >:(
16:34:52  <valhallasw`zzz> !reg
16:34:54  <jmp_ghli> >valhallasw`zzz> Regisztracio magyarul: | registration in english:
16:34:55  <valhallasw`zzz> oh
16:34:56  <TrueLight> !myflags
16:34:57  <Patrick`> !fart
16:34:58  <jmp_ghli> >TrueLight> you are truelight from channel #openttd and your flags are Sf-; your nick is TrueLight
16:34:58  * valhallasw`zzz slaps valhallasw`zzz
16:35:14  <black_Nightmare> hmmmm CN and CP diesel engines.....hehehe..... *can image a train of two or three Dash9's and tons of coal cars*
16:35:22  <tokai|noir> ok, wasting some more hd:)
16:35:23  <Patrick`> yep
16:35:46  <Patrick`> unfortunately, the kickoff bug means that high HP are meaningless at high speeds
16:35:55  <Patrick`> because 90% of the time between 0 and 400 is spent at 0
16:36:10  <Patrick`> hurry up and fix the acceleration model, whoever's responsible
16:36:27  *** jong [] has joined #openttd
16:36:29  <valhallasw`zzz> sloooow
16:36:34  <valhallasw`zzz> !myflags
16:36:35  <jmp_ghli> >valhallasw`zzz> you are UNKNOWN_USER from channel #openttd and your flags are -; your nick is valhallasw`zzz
16:36:43  <Patrick`> !insult Patrick`
16:36:50  <black_Nightmare> patrick....heh :p
16:37:12  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be speed limits in stations...
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16:37:33  <Patrick`> Eddi|zuHause: elaborate, you mean when non-stopped? there is, I think
16:38:09  * black_Nightmare can not understand the ai using tons of wood bridges....poor 60+mph trains running at just 20mph for a long time hehehehehe :))
16:38:24  <SimonRC> yet another question:  How do I know if a town needs food to grow.  There are some towns I am not sure about, as they are right on the snowline.
16:38:36  <Eddi|zuHause> you should not try to understand the AI, black_Nightmare
16:38:46  <Patrick`> black_Nightmare: wood + maglecv
16:38:50  <Patrick`> top speed: 400mph
16:38:55  <Patrick`> it's hilarious
16:39:30  <black_Nightmare> why could not the ai figure that if they went left or right a bit more they wouldn't need any wood bridges or even any bridges at all......bah :p
16:39:36  <black_Nightmare> hehe
16:40:35  <Patrick`> it's the original AI
16:40:36  <SimonRC> Eddi|zuHause: Well ... I have visited the station of North Allerton in England, and through-trains go through at 120mph there, so I think spped limits in stations are not to realistic.
16:40:37  <Patrick`> blame sid
16:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> black_Nightmare: rewrite the AI ;)
16:41:06  <Vornicus> (sadly, stations themselves aren't exactly realistic in ottd - not all tracks stop.)
16:41:18  <SimonRC> black_Nightmare: You do know that openttd started off as decompiler output, don't you?
16:41:27  <Patrick`> SimonRC: that's a lie
16:41:32  <Patrick`> it was a disassembler
16:41:35  <Patrick`> totally different
16:41:36  <SimonRC> ah, ok
16:41:42  * black_Nightmare whacks an 'artificial intelligence for dummies' yellow manual at eddi
16:41:55  * black_Nightmare chuckles
16:42:10  <black_Nightmare> <is amused
16:44:13  <black_Nightmare> :p
16:44:17  * Eddi|zuHause lost
16:44:25  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|food
16:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> *which reminds me*
16:45:23  * Patrick` starts a 2048
16:45:52  <Patrick`> ottd would make a good mmog ... hire someone to do the grunt work of connecting stations to the mainline for a cut of the profits
16:46:11  <Patrick`> split the map into 512x512 segments and abstract the rest
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16:48:12  * Vornotron logs on from the downstairs computer, finally has a chance to deal with running gdb on the crash he found.
16:49:04  * Vornotron finds typing hard, as the spacebar is semibusted.
16:49:22  <black_Nightmare> hmm know, I recall RT2 let you connect to ai tracks (I never did ever play multiplayer with it, can not find ANY ONE!! blah) and use it on a %-of-total-mileage-over-ai-track levy plus you could use ai stations too
16:49:46  <black_Nightmare> could be interesting if the human multiplayer part of openttd could do something a bit like that? (without the levy since that might be too hard to put in)
16:50:03  <Patrick`> cool
16:50:34  <peter1138> subsidiaries
16:50:55  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: you might want to read the forums for a few days... all your suggestions are on there :P
16:50:58  * Vornotron now tries to figure out how to make a debug build.
16:51:22  <black_Nightmare> peter8..there's always way too many threads on major forums so I'm not particular of reading forums some of the times... ^_^
16:51:38  * Vornotron wants shiny 3d and all that jazz, but doesn't expect anyone to do that for him. Also needs to learn OpenGL anyways.
16:53:00  <Vornotron> confirming: would "make DEBUG=1" do what I want?
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16:56:35  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... if i went out and bought a wireless mouse... what kind of things could i possibly do wrong?
16:57:00  <Vornotron> lose the mouse.
16:57:08  <black_Nightmare> hehehehe :p
16:57:22  <black_Nightmare> or knocking it off table with no cable to halt it
16:57:25  <Patrick`> hahahaha 750 dollars an hour
16:57:30  <tokai|noir> Bjarni: uploading
16:57:42  <tokai|noir> will need a few min:)
16:58:11  <tokai|noir> ottd releases come always so surprisingly
16:58:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... i am already losing my remote controls all the time...
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16:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* buy mouse with GPS chip inside ;)
16:59:22  <black_Nightmare> eddi.... ^-^
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17:01:20  <Vornicus> o...kay.  that's not working.
17:01:28  <Vornicus> bjarni!  heelp!
17:02:44  <tokai|noir> Bjarni, TrueLight or DarkSSH: openttd-0.4.6-morphos.lha uploaded, please move. thx:)
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17:03:53  <guru3> what's fixed in 0.4.6?
17:05:03  <blathijs> guru3: Check the changelog I guess?
17:05:14  <guru3> i'll get to it eventually
17:05:22  <guru3> i was just wondering if there was anything really big
17:05:57  <Celestar> hm.
17:06:33  <CIA-5> celestar * r4067 /branch/elrail/ (BUGS elrail.c): [elrail] Fixed a problem where 90?4?6 would not have pylons
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17:09:03  <tron> Celestar: where WHAT?
17:09:24  *** angerman [] has left #openttd []
17:09:30  <Celestar> great encoding :)
17:09:50  <Celestar> svn ci -m "[elrail] Fixed a problem where 90° curves would not have pylons" <= that was the command.
17:12:10  <CIA-5> celestar * r4068 /branch/elrail/ (BUGS elrail.c table/elrail_data.h):
17:12:10  <CIA-5> [elrail] Fixed a problem where a pylon on a bridgehead got a wrong z offset (partly due to wrong coordinates, partly due to crappy information from GetSlopeZ)
17:12:10  <CIA-5>  P.S. The c
17:12:15  <Celestar> ARGGGHHHH
17:12:21  <Celestar> whats wrong with my svn?!
17:13:25  * Celestar runs svn cleanup just in case.
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17:14:23  <Celestar> tron: seems like a CIA problem only. the svn log appears correct to me
17:17:52  <CIA-5> celestar * r4069 /branch/elrail/elrail.c: [elrail] Fixed a problem where some bridgeheads would have 2 pylons on one edge.
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17:19:29  <Celestar> so most visual flaws in elrails are gone \o/
17:27:15  * Vornotron convinces OTTD to crash. Finds the following odd: hecan crash it at 1024x768 but not at 640x480.
17:27:38  <Vornotron> Now that I've gotten it to crash, now what?
17:29:00  <Vornotron> (I'm running it in gdb, and have a shell attached externally.  My other computer is dead in the water until I tell ottd to actually finish crashing.
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17:29:37  <Vornotron> Program received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory.  0xffff8838 in __memcpy ()
17:29:59  <Celestar> is that windoze?
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17:31:13  <Vornotron> OSX.
17:32:09  *** jong [] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
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17:34:24  <Vornotron> but now I'm not sure what else Bjarni wanted, cuz that's all the gdb spewed.
17:34:27  <TrueLight> Bjarni: ping
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17:35:42  * Vornotron gets a stack trace, at least.
17:36:25  <Vornotron> also it's been too damn long since I used a console on Windoze, I keep accidentally trying to copy the way that's normal for everything else.
17:38:34  <CIA-5> truelight * r4070 /trunk/makefiledir/Makefile.libdetection: -Fix: on OSX COCOA was set by default, even with DEDICATED, while those 2 conflict
17:40:24  <blathijs> Is it just me, or won't openttd trunk run anymore?
17:40:25  <blathijs>  :-S
17:40:35  <blathijs> both my machines won't start it anymore...
17:40:57  <Vornotron> It runs on mine but I have some issues with it and fullscreen.
17:41:20  <blathijs> it runs, and exits before even showing a window here
17:41:26  <blathijs> on 2 different machines...
17:41:40  <TrueLight> you forgot to enable SDL? :p
17:41:53  <blathijs> ah, DISPLAY var was broken :-)
17:44:00  <TrueLight> lol
17:45:08  * Vornotron looks for other things he can tell it to do.
17:47:05  * Vornotron reads the list of info commands.
17:49:50  * Vornotron is stymied by the sheer volume of options.
17:49:52  <CIA-5> matthijs * r4071 /trunk/npf.c: - Fix: [NPF] Trains & busses were unable to find a route when leaving a depot or bus stop. Small omission from r4023 (fix by glx)
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17:52:17  <CIA-5> matthijs * r4072 /branch/0.4/npf.c:
17:52:17  <CIA-5> - Backport from trunk (4071):
17:52:17  <CIA-5>  - Fix: [NPF] Trains & busses were unable to find a route when leaving a depot or bus stop. Small omission from r4023 (fix by glx)
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17:56:39  <Vornotron> nerg
17:56:50  * Vornotron pokepokepokepokepokes Bjarni
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18:02:51  <Vornotron> :/
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18:10:01  <DaleStan> <Vornotron> Program received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory.  0xffff8838 in __memcpy () <--- (gdb) bt
18:10:38  <DaleStan> That's probably about all the help I can be, though.
18:14:28  <Vornicus> yeah, did that.
18:15:02  <Vornicus> then I gave up because I didn't know what I was doing beyond that.  I'll be posting the backtrace as soon as I get back downstairs.
18:18:51  <TrueLight> Why does Doxygen produce man files?
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18:20:01  <egladil> because it is told to do so in the config file or on the command line?
18:20:16  <TrueLight> config-file yes
18:20:18  <TrueLight> and I wonder why
18:20:22  <TrueLight> Celestar: this one is for you ;)
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18:26:52  <SimonRC> Interesting: The random town name generator generated a real town name.
18:26:59  <SimonRC> ("Whitstable")
18:27:00  <Vornicus> what name?
18:27:06  <Vornicus> That's a good name.
18:27:08  <SimonRC> Spelt it exactly right, too.
18:28:28  <peter1138> it happens...
18:33:41  <Vornotron>
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19:17:18  <Bjarni> 	<Vornotron>	Program received signal EXC_BAD_ACCESS, Could not access memory.  0xffff8838 in __memcpy () <--- ok, so it's a bad pointer. The question is where
19:17:38  <Bjarni> Vornicus: are you still here?
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19:19:10  <Bjarni> hmm
19:19:23  <Bjarni> it's the line I expected. It crashes on i386 as well
19:19:32  <Bjarni> now the question is why it crashes
19:19:54  <Bjarni> and why it works for me
19:20:21  <Bjarni> it's actually not the best thing that can happen that it works for me :p
19:23:51  <Vornicus> I am.
19:24:18  <Vornicus> i left you a backtrace:
19:24:28  <Bjarni> I found it
19:24:29  <Vornicus> ah
19:24:30  <Vornicus> ok
19:24:54  <Bjarni> so you got the same crash as i386
19:24:58  <Bjarni> and I have no idea why :p
19:25:08  <Bjarni> for some reason it sets a pointer wrong
19:25:15  <Bjarni> yet it's set correctly for me
19:25:26  <Bjarni> and it's NOT a null pointer
19:26:33  <Bjarni> the problem with pointers is that we can't be sure where the computer placed it, so we don't know how far off the number is
19:27:42  <Vornicus> What resolution are you playing at?  I could not get it to crash at 640x480.
19:28:49  *** XeryusTC is now known as XeryusW3
19:28:55  <Bjarni> 1440x900
19:29:02  <Bjarni> what resolution did you try?
19:29:17  <Vornicus> 1024x768
19:29:53  <Vornicus> that's the fullscreen resolution, not the resolution I usually use for stuff.
19:30:44  <Bjarni> great news: it crashed here with 1024x768 as well
19:30:46  <Bjarni> hmm
19:31:03  <Bjarni> now it would be nice to have two computers next to each other :p
19:31:38  <Bjarni> but a workaround would be to avoid 1024x768 until I think of something
19:33:07  <Vornicus> hm
19:33:24  <Patrick`> what was the crash?
19:33:31  <Bjarni> now I got it to crash again with 640x480
19:33:44  <Patrick`> 'cause you *know* I had my 1024x768-only crash ^_^
19:33:45  <Bjarni> Patrick`: 	<Vornotron>
19:33:49  <Patrick`> which I still don't understand
19:34:02  <Bjarni> it's in the cocoa video driver
19:34:05  <Patrick`> ah
19:34:11  <Bjarni> it somehow points to the wrong location
19:34:13  <Patrick`> totally different then
19:35:59  <Bjarni> it appears that it's only happens at 640x480 and 1024x768 for some reason
19:36:04  <Bjarni> Vornicus: try ./openttd -r 1024x767
19:36:09  <Bjarni> and then switch to fullscreen
19:36:30  <Bjarni> I just did that and it switched to the closest one (1024x768) and it didn't crash
19:36:44  <Bjarni> nice workaround, but it totally makes no sense
19:37:32  <Bjarni> if this is really funny, then it's a bug in leaving window mode and not fullscreen mode
19:37:50  <Belugas> Celestar ping
19:38:10  <Bjarni> I mean switching to 640x480 works from a 640x479 window, but not from a 640x480 window
19:38:39  <Vornicus> wtf?
19:39:03  * Vornicus did not have a problem with 640x480...
19:39:32  <Bjarni> switching to 640x480 in fullscreen from 800x600 crashed as well
19:39:37  <Bjarni> wtf is going on
19:40:12  <Vornicus> well at least now you can reproduce it.
19:40:33  <Bjarni> yeah
19:40:50  <Bjarni> and we got a bit closer to finding the cause
19:41:15  <Bjarni> since it's resolution dependant and it's dependant on old and new resolution o_O
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19:43:44  <Vornicus> eeeew.
19:46:14  <Vornicus> (for the record: my desktop resolution is 1280x1024)
19:46:43  <Bjarni> that one appeared to work
19:47:27  <Vornicus>  this thing is perverse.
19:48:48  <Born_Acorn> Is it a mirror? *runs*
19:49:19  <Bjarni> I tried it with different resolutions, but somehow I didn't manage to trigger it when testing and I never play in 640x480 or 1024x768
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20:12:18  <MeusH> hello
20:12:20  <MeusH> I
20:12:23  <MeusH> I'm back
20:12:29  <MeusH> and I see 0.4.6
20:12:40  <guru3> wacky isn't it
20:12:47  <guru3> new versions are always so unexepcted
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20:19:34  <MeusH> yup
20:19:35  <MeusH> true
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20:24:06  <Bjarni> yeah
20:24:15  <Bjarni> it came as a complete surprise to me
20:24:21  <hylje> bjarni, really?
20:24:33  <Bjarni> more or less
20:24:37  <hylje> must be your evil twin doing that release thing last night
20:25:00  <Bjarni> no, I mean 3 days ago, I thought we would not release within a month or so
20:25:17  <Bjarni> then DV decided on his own to prepare a release
20:25:53  <glx> buggy release
20:26:11  <hylje> release often
20:26:16  * Bjarni can see a 0.4.7 in the near future
20:26:18  <hylje> could keep interest up a bit more
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20:26:24  <Bjarni> bug fixing the bug fix release :p
20:26:44  * Vornicus remembers the lead-up to 0.4.5, which was like 3 weeks of "we're headed to 0.4.5 soon!"
20:27:03  <Patrick`> hah, I remember 0.4.0
20:27:06  <Patrick`> that took months
20:27:08  <Patrick`> and moooonths
20:27:19  <Bjarni> I remember 0.1.4
20:27:37  <Bjarni> I didn't think I should make releases until I was asked to do so on the release day
20:27:40  <glx> no release fast after 0.4.0
20:28:03  <Patrick`> yes, because 0.4.0 was broken
20:28:09  <Bjarni> we once had a release 10 hours after a release
20:28:30  <Bjarni> it was the first release with a windows installer and it turned out that it deleted all the old savegames :p
20:29:29  <Vornicus> meep
20:31:05  <Bjarni> Vornicus: btw did you test if 0.4.6 crashes?
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20:36:17  <tokai> Bjarni: moves mos archive already?
20:36:24  <tokai> s/moves/moved
20:36:32  <Vornicus> No I have not.
20:37:37  <DarkSSH> 21:25 <@Bjarni> no, I mean 3 days ago, I thought we would not release within a month or so <-- what ARE you talking about?
20:38:23  <DarkSSH> this bugfix release was in the planning for at least the last 2-3 weeks
20:38:44  <tokai> well.. or DarkSSH, he can move the file too:)
20:38:48  <DarkSSH> Bjarni: you'd better find a way to check for iconv support in the makefile so it my patch can be added
20:39:02  <DarkSSH> move what where/
20:39:20  <DarkSSH> tokai: your uploaded release?
20:39:22  <tokai> faari: the openttd-0.4.6-morphos.lha i uploaded some hours ago:)
20:39:32  <tokai> -faari+dark
20:39:43  <DarkSSH> donnu, kinda useless since with NPF this broken there's gonna be a fix pretty soon I reckon
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20:41:35  <Tron> *shrug* the ship issue of npf hasn't been solved either, so what?
20:41:50  <DarkSSH> shall we do tomorrow-evening? Someone will have to do all the preparation and stuff cause I'll have a hockey game, but I can upload the windows release around midnight
20:42:06  <DarkSSH> Tron: well but we do know that NPF is really sucky for ships
20:42:41  <Patrick`> DarkSSH: haha
20:42:51  <Tron> the moment you want to use ships it's also unusable
20:42:57  <Patrick`> oh, there's actually a broken thing?
20:43:27  <peter1138> evening
20:43:32  * peter1138 < knackered
20:43:33  <DarkSSH> hi peter1138
20:45:02  <tokai> DarkSSH: so u'll move it? because i'll go to bed very soon :)
20:45:15  <DarkSSH> sure
20:45:27  <DarkSSH> orudge: ping
20:45:44  <Patrick`> then do
20:45:46  <peter1138> so, what's up?
20:45:49  <tokai> DarkSSH: thank u.
20:45:53  <Patrick`> with the only change being "changed revision number"
20:46:17  <Prof_Frink> Patrick`:
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20:47:01  <Bjarni> <tokai>	Bjarni: moves mos archive already? <-- no, but I will do so now
20:47:10  <Bjarni> I was unaware that you had uploaded it
20:47:21  <DarkSSH> Bjarni: done
20:48:00  <CIA-5> tron * r4073 /trunk/ (5 files): Add functions to make and test for (most) unmovable tiles
20:48:00  <DarkSSH> Bjarni: you needa find out how to check the system for availability of iconv :)
20:49:57  <Bjarni> heh, somebody else already added it
20:50:23  <DarkSSH> 21:47 <@DarkSSH> Bjarni: done
20:51:00  <Bjarni> yeah, I typed without reading the channel. I had scrolled back in history to read the request
20:51:20  <Bjarni> <DarkSSH>	Bjarni: you needa find out how to check the system for availability of iconv :) <-- hmm, I will try to think of something
20:51:53  <Bjarni> I got one idea, but I don't know if it is valid (yet)
20:51:58  <DarkSSH> Bjarni: we could add something like WITH_ICONV so that it is not mandatory
20:52:05  <Bjarni> yeah
20:52:40  <Bjarni> first I need to write a little piece of C code to learn if it is present on the system
20:53:01  <Bjarni> I guess I need to write it in C
20:53:20  <DarkSSH> | #include <stdlib.h>
20:53:20  <DarkSSH> | #include <iconv.h>
20:53:20  <DarkSSH> | int
20:53:20  <DarkSSH> | main ()
20:53:20  <DarkSSH> | {
20:53:22  <DarkSSH> | iconv_t cd = iconv_open("","");
20:53:25  <DarkSSH> |          iconv(cd,NULL,NULL,NULL,NULL);
20:53:26  <peter1138> write it in BCPL
20:53:27  <DarkSSH> |          iconv_close(cd);
20:53:30  <DarkSSH> |   ;
20:53:32  <DarkSSH> |   return 0;
20:53:43  <Bjarni> BCPL?
20:54:01  <Patrick`> the forerunner to C
20:54:07  <DarkSSH> | }
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20:54:22  <DarkSSH> might be a helpful link but I would have no idea how to incorporate this
20:54:45  <DarkSSH> I still wonder what's wrong with configure btw
20:54:58  <DarkSSH> cause now we do almost the same just with custom-code
20:55:26  <Bjarni> finding if it is present at compile time is not a huge issue. I'm wondering if I can do it WITHOUT breaking the compiler farm and any other crosscompiler
20:55:48  <DarkSSH> then look for the headers
20:55:55  <DarkSSH> FIND_HEADER(iconv.h) :p
20:56:06  <Bjarni> this is the issue when running small apps for detecting stuff
20:56:22  <Bjarni> that's not good enough
20:56:38  <Bjarni> I got the header, yet I can't use it when crosscompiling for 10.2.8
20:56:48  <hylje> whats the best way to get good transport rating
20:57:02  <DarkSSH> often and fast
20:57:24  <Prof_Frink> and new.
20:57:38  <Prof_Frink> And a statue
20:57:44  <Prof_Frink> And an ad campaign.
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20:59:43  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: ping
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21:00:32  <Bjarni> bbl
21:00:45  <Vornicus> Treeeeeeeeees.
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21:02:35  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: pong
21:03:31  <MeusH> please voice your opinions on
21:04:13  <MiHaMiX> looks nice
21:05:38  <MeusH>
21:06:28  <Patrick`> it has a typo
21:06:30  <Patrick`> "aricle"
21:06:50  <Patrick`> and I'd say "please remove once *this* article has been 'spanded"
21:07:06  <Patrick`> overall I like it
21:07:12  <Patrick`> affix it to *every* page
21:07:18  <MeusH> thanks Patrick`
21:08:07  <MeusH> fixed
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21:21:08  <peter1138> oh, i was doing elrail stuff...
21:23:31  <DarkSSH> peter1138: is it possible to add REALLY new sprites?
21:23:44  <DarkSSH> eg instead of replacements of sprites that are already there but unused?
21:25:44  <peter1138> context? heh
21:26:10  <DarkSSH> eg the dbsetxl graphics use toyland sprites
21:26:22  <peter1138> hmm
21:26:23  <DarkSSH> but if you run out you can't add more
21:26:25  <DarkSSH> can we?
21:26:29  <peter1138> it shouldn't
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21:27:06  <peter1138> what does it use them for?
21:27:14  <DarkSSH> PM
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21:33:37  *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away
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21:42:35  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:43:04  <Belugas_Gone> good night
21:43:16  <Brianetta> Terragenesis test on my nightly
21:43:32  <Brianetta> Anybody wants to play on RichK's finest with UKRS, go ahead
21:46:12  * Vornicus wonders:  how good exactly /is/ terragenesis.
21:46:28  * Vornicus unfortunately cannot play, though.
21:46:58  <Brianetta> Terragenesis is *good*
21:48:48  <MeusH> hey +Belugas_Gone
21:48:50  <MeusH> too late
21:48:55  <MeusH> goodnight anyway
21:49:30  * MiHaMiX missed the CSI episode which was aired this evening :-(
21:49:55  <MiHaMiX> never mind, I already has it with engdub :)
21:51:20  *** MiHaMiX changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.6 Released! | Translator is under reconstruction | Website: * (Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs)
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21:52:57  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: I'll do also the {todo} which will be a small pic with todo text, and the most important, article would go to "TODO" category
21:53:13  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: cool :)
21:53:35  <MeusH> also I'm planning {Update} example, which will be as big as {Expand}, but it will show the need for updating the content
21:54:06  <MeusH> if you spot some good and small images for Expand, Update and Todo, let me know
21:54:15  <MeusH> or just upload it on the wiki
21:54:56  <MiHaMiX> okay
21:57:01  <MeusH> please help me with building the sentence for {Update}
21:57:07  <MeusH> Some of it's content is no longer valid, or it lacks new information
21:57:19  *** tokai [] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"]
21:57:24  <MeusH> Especially the second part, about lacking the new information
21:58:53  <MeusH> I know!
21:59:39  <MeusH> or... no
22:00:16  <MeusH>
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22:08:00  *** SchAmane [] has quit ["Ciao"]
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22:14:36  <MeusH>
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22:18:06  <Bjarni> back
22:18:10  <Bjarni> hmm
22:18:52  <Bjarni> so far 8 people downloaded the binary for OSX 10.2.8, while 30 people appears to have a newer version... somehow that seems wrong
22:19:23  <Bjarni> I saw an estimate that less than 10% used older than 10.3
22:24:39  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: important!
22:24:40  <MeusH>
22:24:47  <MeusH> I need to upload a file
22:24:50  <MeusH> where is that?
22:25:02  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[bath]
22:25:05  <MeusH[bath]> bbl
22:26:57  *** MeusH[bath] is now known as MeusH
22:27:00  <MeusH> no bath yet
22:27:09  <MeusH> so, how do I upload the file?
22:27:17  *** Cheery [] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:27:32  <SpComb> by hacking a cia server and sticking it on there
22:27:45  <Bjarni> ok, what is the easy solution?
22:27:56  <hylje> suicide
22:28:24  <MeusH> ...
22:28:28  <Bjarni> that will distribute your file to other people around the world?
22:28:47  <MeusH> attach a notifier to a file
22:29:00  <SpComb> email it to yourself
22:29:01  <MeusH> so it pops up
22:29:06  <SpComb> then give a link to the attachment
22:29:14  <MeusH> and other people see 'oh there is a new version'
22:29:24  <MeusH> they click on it, and new version will be distributed
22:30:02  * SpComb *clickety* replaces the new version *clickety* with a virus
22:30:31  <Diablo-D3> Bjarni: btw
22:30:39  <Diablo-D3> I cant wait until I can get a macbook pro
22:30:56  <SpComb> I'd rather have a macbook elite
22:31:07  * Diablo-D3 whacks SpComb
22:31:24  * SpComb cheats
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22:36:37  <Bjarni> Diablo-D3: yeah, dualcore CPU should be a pretty awesome thing in a macbook/powerbook/notebook
22:40:07  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[bath]
22:42:00  <Patrick`> I note you didn't say it'd be "cool"
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22:42:06  <Patrick`> RAGING CROTCH INFERNO
22:42:57  <SpComb> heat == wattage
22:43:39  <Patrick`> lies
22:43:52  <Patrick`> everyone knows most notebooks use 50% power in the form of gamma rays and sound
22:47:58  <hylje> then remove them
22:51:13  *** _Red is now known as Red
22:52:28  <Kalpa> Wattage.
22:52:31  <Kalpa> Voltage?
22:52:40  <Kalpa> Gamma rays? F:
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22:53:36  <Bjarni> watt is the energy used pr sec and is not the same as voltage
22:53:55  <Bjarni> you can get high watt without having high voltage and the device will still be hot
22:54:12  <Bjarni> CPUs are generally very low voltage, like as low as 3,3 V
22:54:34  <blathijs> less
22:54:42  <Bjarni> gamma rays? that one is new
22:54:44  <blathijs> my Turion runs at 0.8 right now
22:54:54  <Bjarni> where did you find that info?
22:54:58  <blathijs> and desktop CPU's run at around 2
22:55:05  <blathijs> Bjarni: powernow driver
22:55:05  <Kalpa> Gamma rays would be fun.
22:55:28  <blathijs> Bjarni: and I hacked my ACPI table to make it run at 0.8V instead of the default 1V
22:56:02  <Bjarni> blathijs: most likely. It just needs to overcome diode drop*2 and the resistance for speed is capacity, so if the change in voltage is lower, then the energy used on the internal capacity is lower as well
22:56:21  <blathijs> yup
22:56:39  <blathijs> when loaded, I can save about 10% - 20% by dropping the voltage
22:57:45  <Bjarni> most likely. A 20% drop of voltage means 20% less power spent on the capacity, but it's not only the capacity, that eats power, so 15% sounds reasonable
23:02:30  <Bjarni> btw this is one of the reasons why G5 never made it into the powerbooks
23:02:40  <Bjarni> they run on pretty high voltage
23:10:13  <Patrick`> lowering cpu voltage is fiddly
23:10:26  <Patrick`> by that point, cpus are insane internally
23:10:35  <Patrick`> cmos can just get smaller and smaller and work with a smaller PD
23:10:44  <Patrick`> more or less
23:10:56  <Patrick`> so dropping the vcore might actually work but it might not be stable
23:13:44  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bed
23:15:03  <Qball> you still have huge capacitors on the pin's feeding to the world outside
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23:45:19  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: hey
23:54:47  <CIA-5> bjarni * r4074 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs):
23:54:47  <CIA-5> -Feature: [Makefile] the makefile can now detect if iconv is present in the system
23:54:47  <CIA-5>  if detected, WITH_ICONV will be defined in the C code
23:54:47  <CIA-5>  WITH_ICONV is also added to Makefile.config
23:54:47  <CIA-5>  OSX do not use this flag setting in Makefile.config, as it is set at compile time based on target OS version
23:54:48  <CIA-5>  the actual C code is not changed as the current iconv code is hardcoded for OSX and would break if any other OS got iconv
23:54:53  <CIA-5>  This detection system is by request of Darkvater

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