Log for #openttd on 2nd April 2006:
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00:02:36  <black_Nightmare> yeah thats true
00:02:54  <Fujitsu> Silly map array...
00:03:57  <Vornicus> In any case, if you've got a very large network that you're desperately trying to add more stuff to, consider consolidating lines.
00:04:11  <Fujitsu> Yes.
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00:07:36  <Brianetta> What did lilo do?
00:09:11  <Richk67> hi brianetta... dunno, who is lilo anyway?
00:09:34  <black_Nightmare> vornicus.....count this I have to tunnel under (I'm pink colour anyhow): yellow sloped track then yellow mainline then yellow tracks then blue station then a bit of a city's outlaying housing area and then finally my tunnel ends and I come out rising back to green ground :->
00:10:15  <black_Nightmare> its no wonder my one factory (where I send all my trains to..heh) is still doing need to expand the station at all and its got clean [designed] track most of the way :p
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00:11:26  <black_Nightmare> factory started with two quiet its seven and most are usually busy
00:11:37  <Richk67> brianetta: another airport complete :)
00:12:03  <black_Nightmare> playing on a server?
00:12:41  <Richk67> nope... i mean, ive completed coding another airport state machine... the Type 3b is ready for business :)
00:13:08  <Brianetta> Rich: Yey! (:
00:13:40  <Brianetta> Time to change the airport dialogue to a drop-down selector (:
00:13:57  <Richk67> also, i discovered that the state machine needed for the rotated version is identical :)    just need to translate the position data :)
00:14:19  <Richk67> so it means im 50% done on the Type 3b N/S too :)
00:14:25  <black_Nightmare> ohh yeah THESE
00:14:39  * Brianetta reads the OFTC log... (:
00:14:41  <black_Nightmare> richk I would really *love* that little helicopter land+service 2x2 pad :->
00:14:56  <black_Nightmare> not having to build a freaking airplane airport just for helicopters *alone*
00:14:57  <black_Nightmare> :P
00:15:07  <Richk67> yup, thats an easy one too... i was planning on releasing a 6 airport pack soon
00:15:54  * Fujitsu hopes his additional industry almost works.
00:15:59  <Richk67> black_Nightmare - the helidepot is already available in the 3 airports patch... ive a 3 pad 4x2 as part of this latest group
00:18:06  <black_Nightmare> nice
00:19:37  <Richk67> so it adds 2 new heliports (2x2 helidepot, 4x2 helistation), and 3/4 new airports - commuter (5x4), intercontinental (7x11), district (3x13 / 13x3)
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01:09:49  <Fujitsu> OK...
01:10:11  <Fujitsu> I have almost worked out how to add industries...
01:10:18  <Fujitsu> Really bad section of the code...
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01:47:29  <DJGummik1h> hehe
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03:01:16  * Fujitsu wonders where the industry sprites are defined.
03:02:05  <Vornicus> the sprites for industries and many other things are in the five grfs yoinked from the original game.
03:06:07  <Fujitsu> Of course, but I am trying to locate where the actual numbers are defined...
03:06:12  <Fujitsu> They don't appear to be in the NFOs.
03:07:31  <Fujitsu> Like, one of the coal mine tiles has 8 as the sprite, and the sugar mine has 167. These numbers aren't defined in the NFO, so where are they aliased to the actual sprites in the GRF?
03:11:47  <Fujitsu> Ahh.
03:11:49  <Fujitsu> There...
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03:55:02  <Fujitsu> Hmm...
03:56:30  <Fujitsu> Why are the industry sprite numbers shifted 2 bits left compared to the definitions?
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06:42:40  <peter1138> Tron: ping
06:42:49  <Tron> .
06:42:54  <peter1138> r4164
06:43:07  <peter1138> road_cmd.c:1017
06:43:15  <peter1138> -uint32 r = (GetCrossingRoadAxis(tile) == AXIS_X ? TRACK_BIT_X : TRACK_BIT_Y) * 0x101;
06:43:23  <peter1138> +uint32 r = GetCrossingRailBits(tile) * 0x101;
06:43:46  <peter1138> we need the road bits, not the rail bits :)
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06:46:33  <Rockj> I figured out I have to relearn this game , troubling with making trains go where they should. (while sharing one same railroad) grr. ^^;   Else, quite amazing to be playing this game again. So keep up the good work.
06:47:00  <Tron> peter1138: please undo the change
06:48:18  <peter1138> ok
06:49:34  <peter1138> btw
06:49:48  <peter1138> ModifyTile can be removed
06:50:06  <peter1138> we were letting you have the pleasure of doing so
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07:05:41  <CIA-5> tron * r4230 /trunk/road_cmd.c: The road is asked for, not the rail. Undo part of r4164. (Pointed out by peter1138)
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07:29:45  <Tron> peter1138: sweet
07:30:06  <CIA-5> tron * r4231 /trunk/ (functions.h landscape.c openttd.h): Remove ModifyTile(), it's not used anymore, yay!
07:30:19  <peter1138> :)
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07:42:06  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4232 /branch/yapf/yapf/ (7 files): [YAPF] - few classes added (I plan to use them in yapf)
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07:42:14  <|MeusH|> hello
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07:42:30  <ThePizzaKing> hello MeusH
07:50:24  <peter1138> Tron: network_server.c:897 -- errorno isn't checked for validity, and a bad client can crash a server. fixes it
07:51:32  <Tron> the diff looks ok to me
07:51:47  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4233 /branch/yapf/ (9 files in 2 dirs): [YAPF] added some unit tests (and VC8 project file)
07:54:02  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4234 /branch/yapf/Makefile: [YAPF] added new target (make unittest) into makefile (tested on my linux only)
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08:00:54  <Tron> ottd uses the BeOS function _netstat
08:01:28  <Tron> the first three hits on google for "beos _netstat" cotain "openttd" in the domain name
08:02:07  <Tron> and the other three hits are rather useless
08:02:09  <Tron> i find this worrisome
08:03:29  <Fujitsu> Hahah.
08:03:29  <Fujitsu> Nice.
08:03:39  <peter1138> o_O
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08:15:25  <MeusH> wiki is down
08:15:27  <MeusH> noo
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08:33:44  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4235 /branch/yapf/ (openttd.sln openttd.vcproj yapf/unittest/unittest.vcproj): [YAPF] VC7.1 project files - new classes and unittest added
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08:43:15  <zen--> hm
08:43:20  <zen--> if i type a string "#2 \x25d\x0a"
08:43:24  <zen--> i get C2022
08:43:30  <zen--> it thinks its octal
08:43:34  <zen--> but it isnt
08:44:07  <KUDr> try \x25d\xa
08:44:41  <KUDr> what compiler?
08:45:23  <zen--> vc2003 and vc2005 both
08:45:32  <zen--> \x24 is actually %
08:45:39  <zen--> maybe it cannot be escaped as hex
08:45:47  <zen--> java has similar issues
08:46:38  <KUDr> maybe, i never used hex escaping
08:47:13  <zen--> :)
08:47:31  <zen--> do you use any gc in ansi c?
08:47:41  <zen--> or do your malloc/free routines yourself
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08:48:20  <Tron> \x25d is the problem
08:48:55  <Tron> just read the error message, it's pretty obvious
08:49:04  <KUDr> gc? like managed extensions?
08:49:15  <Tron> Garbage Collector
08:49:25  <KUDr> aha:)
08:49:33  <Tron> C has no builtin garbage collector
08:49:36  <zen--> \x25d should be read hex<25> + d
08:49:54  <Tron> you _want_ it to be this way
08:50:02  <KUDr> but in VC2005 you can use managed gc
08:50:04  <Tron> but the compiler thinkgs otherwise
08:50:23  <zen--> not really
08:50:36  <Tron> not really what?
08:50:36  <zen--> once you have managed code... you will be .net framework dependant
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08:50:52  <zen--> :)
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08:50:57  <KUDr> yes
08:51:02  <Tron> why would you want to write the percent sign as hex escape code anyway?
08:51:04  <zen--> the best would be to use smart pointers in c
08:51:06  <zen--> i guess
08:51:09  <KUDr> who cares. Vista has it inside
08:51:10  <Tron> or the newline for that matter
08:51:24  <Tron> KUDr: more no than yes
08:51:43  <KUDr> Tron: framework is there and works 100%
08:51:50  <zen--> just was testing how escaping works in c::)
08:51:56  <KUDr> M$ doesn't use it
08:52:07  <KUDr> but its different story
08:52:23  <zen--> each language has its quircks when it comes to escaping
08:52:32  <Tron> i wouldn't call that a different story, i rather think it's a very interesting detail
08:52:50  <zen--> some accept unicode, some hex, some octal, and some only predefined ones
08:53:18  <Tron> read the language spec, it precisly tells you how it works
08:53:27  <KUDr> we asked them why and answer was like: "we still don't know how framework upgrades will work"
08:55:08  <Tron> so much for "works 100%"
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08:55:51  <KUDr> :)
08:56:26  <zen--> hehe
08:57:07  <KUDr> Tron: i have another problem:
08:57:08  <KUDr> 	static const int Tcapacity = Tcapacity_; // the array capacity (maximum size)
08:57:20  <KUDr> error C2258: illegal pure syntax, must be '= 0'
08:57:26  <KUDr> in VC6
08:57:30  <Tron> not enough context
08:57:42  <KUDr> inside class {...};
08:57:56  <Tron> and what's Tcapacity_?
08:58:08  <KUDr> Tcapacity_ is some constant (can be i.e.7)
08:58:24  <KUDr> is taken from template argument
08:58:27  <Tron> do you know how many different kinds of constants exist?
08:58:42  <KUDr> any numeric non zero
08:58:50  <Tron> well, anyway, this can't work
08:58:52  <KUDr> intergral
08:59:10  <Tron> you cannot define a static variable within the class declaration
08:59:22  <Tron> why don't you just use the template parameter directly?
08:59:35  <KUDr> on gcc, VC7, VC8 you can
08:59:59  <KUDr> because then it is not visible from outside of class
09:00:11  <zen--> length of an array could be retrieved like this: ?((signed int)sizeof(array) / sizeof(array[0]))
09:00:18  <KUDr> normally can be done with enum
09:00:28  <KUDr> but it has no type
09:00:56  <KUDr> zen-- its not C array
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09:01:17  <Tron> i don't use VS6, or any VS for that matter
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09:01:46  <KUDr> I also don't use VS6, but otts does
09:01:51  <KUDr> ottd
09:03:57  <Tron> according to TCPPL you cannot define static members within the class declartion
09:04:03  <Tron> the declaration must be separate
09:04:06  <zen--> so
09:04:15  <Tron> s/declaration/definition/
09:04:18  <zen--> if u do smth like this  array = (int*) malloc(sizeof(int) * 3);
09:04:18  <KUDr> but static const you can
09:04:24  <KUDr> integral
09:04:31  <zen--> how can you know how many ints are in array
09:05:01  <KUDr> zen-- you don't
09:05:11  <zen--> :D
09:05:12  <zen--> aha
09:05:13  <zen--> ok
09:05:21  <zen--> u had a lengthof macro
09:05:28  <zen--> but that was for fixed buffers right
09:05:35  <Tron> KUDr: "Static members must  be separately defined and can be specalized." (TCPPPL §C.13.1 clause 1)
09:05:41  <KUDr> zen-- the same when you use new int[3]
09:06:01  <zen--> there is no new in c?
09:06:09  <Tron> zen--: array is just a pointer to int, nothing more
09:06:40  <KUDr> Tron: but this is const static member - the same as enum - it is not instantiated
09:07:00  <KUDr> zen-- no
09:07:03  <KUDr> C++
09:07:42  <zen--> and openttd is only c right?
09:08:12  <Tron> KUDr: tell me the passage in tcpppl which states this
09:08:28  <KUDr> Tron: tell me url
09:08:40  <KUDr> then i can study it
09:08:47  <Tron> it's a book
09:08:54  <Tron> it's _the_ C++ book
09:09:07  <KUDr> which year
09:09:23  <Tron> maybe the authors name - Bjarne Stroustrup - rings a bell
09:09:32  <Tron> it refers to the latest official standard
09:10:26  <KUDr> at work we use it as 'standard' thing based on last ANSI C++
09:10:35  <KUDr> so i am confused now
09:10:39  <KUDr> will look at it
09:11:05  <Tron> i doubt there is _any_ standard conforming C++ compiler on this planet
09:11:25  <KUDr> yes, but VC6 is bit old
09:11:43  <KUDr> so it doesn't support many ANSI features
09:12:19  <Tron> gcc et al. probably just have this as an extension
09:12:48  <KUDr> but it work also with 'pdantic' flag
09:12:50  <MiHaMiX> morning
09:12:53  <KUDr> pedantic
09:13:05  <Tron> if you set -std=c++98 -pedantic it will probably whine, too
09:13:36  <KUDr> don't know
09:14:03  <Tron> maybe it's in one of the amendments to the standard, i don't have those
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09:14:17  <Tron> if it is, then VC6 is broken in this respect, live with it
09:14:32  <Fujitsu> VC6 is old.
09:14:37  <zen--> why not move on to vs02, vs 03 or vs05?
09:14:44  <Fujitsu> Or GCC.
09:14:51  <Tron> Fujitsu: thanks for the non-information, captain obvious
09:14:55  <zen--> or any other upto date compiler:)
09:15:17  <Fujitsu> No problem, Tron.
09:15:40  <zen--> how do you trace memleaks at openttd?
09:16:07  <Tron> you one of the gazillion tools for tracing memleaks
09:16:22  <MiHaMiX> zen--: we have a nice "memleak tracer wizard" :DDD
09:16:24  <Fujitsu> valgrind forever.
09:17:21  <zen--> u do?
09:17:22  <zen--> :P
09:18:49  <MiHaMiX> ok, back to WT2, last night I have to suspend the work at a very interesting and exciting part :)
09:19:36  <Fujitsu> :O
09:20:12  <hylje> the pr0n generator?
09:20:38  <zen--> lol
09:20:41  <zen--> what is wt2?
09:20:54  <MiHaMiX> zen--: WebTranslator2
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09:23:03  <KUDr> Tron: In place initialization static const members (9.2) not supported.
09:23:03  <KUDr> 241569 ( Error C2258 and error C2252 occur if you try to perform in-place initialization of static const integral member data in Visual C++
09:23:15  <KUDr> confirmed VC6 bug
09:23:23  <KUDr> so it must be standard
09:24:48  <KUDr>
09:26:40  <zen--> howcam i cannot define empty struct?
09:27:25  <KUDr> hmm, why do you need it?
09:28:48  <zen--> i mean... if i want to it wont let me... ofcourse there is no need for a thing like that
09:29:04  <KUDr> :))
09:29:08  <KUDr> funny
09:29:32  <Tron> zen--: #c is a channel dedicated to C
09:29:39  <KUDr> but you can try zero size array inside struct
09:30:14  <zen--> j c
09:30:22  <Tron> /j #c
09:30:31  <zen--> forgor the slash:P
09:30:34  <zen--> forgot
09:32:51  <zen--> #c ##undefined-behavior Forwarding to another channel
09:32:55  <zen--> whats that all about
09:35:24  <Diablo-D3> you want ##c anyhow
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09:39:01  <zen--> ok
09:39:07  <zen--> any objections in the style:
09:40:07  <zen--> ?
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09:48:03  <MiHaMiX> zen--: wait, still downloading page.. :)
09:48:34  <Tron> i see exzessive and pointless casting
09:48:49  <CIA-5> egladil * r4236 /branch/32bpp/screenshot.c: [32bpp] -Make the screenshot code work again.
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09:51:27  <Tron> egladil: i somehow get the feeling you missed the point why i added the type "Pixel" in the first place
09:51:48  <MiHaMiX> i still can't see anything, maybe too many people rush to see zen--'s code and is a victim of DoS attack now :DDD
09:51:55  <egladil> to make it size independent i guess?
09:52:06  <Xeryus|slaap> is the wiki dead?
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09:52:43  <Tron> egladil: so you could just change the typedef and not change the type all over the place
09:52:44  <MiHaMiX> XeryusTC: no, it's working
09:53:21  <MiHaMiX> XeryusTC: (I have to restart it to be honest :D)
09:53:44  <XeryusTC> hmm, you're right
09:53:44  <MiHaMiX> XeryusTC: somehow apache2 wrecks down once in every 3-4 days
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09:53:58  <XeryusTC> lol
09:54:08  <egladil> Tron: yes. however, some of the code still need an 8 bit pixel
09:54:17  <XeryusTC> but somehow my history screwed up :/
09:54:20  <MeusH> cya
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09:54:44  <Tron> egladil: Pixel should only be used in conjuction with the frame buffer
09:54:46  <MiHaMiX> XeryusTC: what do you mean?
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09:55:11  <XeryusTC> well, i used a history link to get to the main page of the wiki, but that didn't work :(
09:55:14  <Tron> egladil: so if there's some code which expects Pixel to be exactly 8bit wide, then the use of Pixel there is wrong
09:55:28  <XeryusTC> when i did it by clicking "manual" on the ottd site it worked
09:55:51  <egladil> Tron: when converting from 8bpp to 32bpp there will be both 32bit and 8bit pixels
09:56:25  <Tron> huh?
09:56:29  <egladil> and i think some of the not yet rewritten code gives warnigns if the pixel is changed in size
09:56:37  <Tron> this doesn't exactly make sense to me
09:56:42  <MiHaMiX> XeryusTC: well, try again the history link, this time with ctrl pressed&hold
09:57:11  <egladil> the old sprite is a 8bpp bitmap (array of Pixels) that will need to be converted to a 32bpp bitmap (array of Pixels)
09:57:35  <Tron> 8bpp bitmap (array of Pixels) <--- *bzzt* wrong, these aren't pixels
09:57:44  <Tron> that's exactly what i just was talking about
09:57:54  <XeryusTC> MiHaMiX: i guess the server just didn't want to respond, it works now if i do the same thing
09:58:15  <MiHaMiX> XeryusTC: ok
09:58:17  <Tron> you probably noticed that it reads "byte* data" in the struct Sprite
09:58:19  <Tron> not Pixel*
09:58:55  <Tron> i'm pretty sure i got the Pixel thing right, because i used it in a proof-of-concept 32bpp implementation
09:59:04  <egladil> ok
09:59:07  <Zr40> hmm
09:59:11  <egladil> well, i can change it if you like
09:59:17  <Zr40> I can't get openttd to run fullscreen
09:59:28  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4237 /branch/yapf/ (7 files in 3 dirs): [YAPF] VC6 project files - new classes and unittest added
09:59:31  <Tron> -typedef byte Pixel;
09:59:31  <Tron> +typedef uint32 Pixel;
09:59:36  <Tron> that's what i did there
10:00:08  <valhallasw> :D
10:00:24  <Tron> egladil: do whatever you want, i just wanted to point out that i thought about it when i added the Pixel type
10:00:26  <valhallasw> lynx ftw :)
10:00:42  <zen--> hm
10:00:51  <zen--> yes the casting is overkill:)
10:00:52  <Zr40> valhallasw: that title bar looks suspicious
10:01:08  <zen--> but the c compiler will optimize it out:)
10:01:20  <valhallasw> Zr40: :D
10:01:26  <Tron> zen--: that's _not_ the point
10:01:45  <zen--> ok
10:01:50  <zen--> besides the casting issue
10:01:53  <zen--> anything else?
10:02:30  <Tron> anything else in relation to what?
10:04:28  <zen--> that wont be acceptable if i would like to commit such code to openttd
10:04:28  <peter1138> the point with casting is it hide problems
10:04:38  <peter1138> +s
10:04:58  <peter1138> and bah, rafb's not loading for me :(
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10:18:04  <peter1138> zen--: so, uh, you want to use something that autogenerates code?
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10:20:52  <zen--> i am making one:P
10:21:11  <peter1138> ok
10:21:13  <peter1138> it's horrible ;p
10:21:17  <zen--> why
10:21:28  <peter1138> redundant returns
10:21:31  <peter1138> redundant casts
10:21:54  <peter1138> useless variable names (maybe that's just the example code)
10:22:22  <zen--> redundancy elimination is not yet done... todo in future releases
10:22:39  <zen--> and the true variable names will be written
10:22:48  <zen--> this is just a test
10:22:57  <zen--> the worst part is
10:23:06  <peter1138> yes, and i'm telling you my opinion based on that
10:23:08  <zen--> i have to think about some reasonable mem leak detektor or gc
10:23:22  <zen--> currently
10:23:23  <hylje> deteKtor
10:24:16  <peter1138> "\x0a" heh
10:24:33  <KUDr> \n ?
10:24:39  <peter1138> quite
10:25:01  <zen--> \n:)
10:25:03  <KUDr> but more cryptic :)
10:25:03  <zen--> the thing was
10:25:13  <zen--> that either php or java had issues with it
10:25:16  <zen--> :)
10:25:23  <zen--> or was it unicode related
10:25:33  <zen--> i am doing the all in one compiler thingy
10:25:50  <peter1138> i've already got gcc ;)
10:26:09  <zen--> :D
10:26:11  <zen--> but
10:26:19  <zen--> yo dont have classes in c
10:26:41  <peter1138> so?
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10:27:34  <KUDr> zen-- then try C++ :)
10:32:01  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4238 /branch/yapf/yapf/unittest/unittest.dsp: [YAPF] added forgotten unittest VC6 project file
10:36:46  <zen--> compare these:
10:36:51  <zen-->
10:36:52  <zen--> :)
10:38:20  <Tron> File_WriteFormatted_6000027(file, (char*)"#%d %d\x0a", (void*)local_2, (void*)array[local_2]);
10:38:25  <Tron> those casts are just plain wrong
10:39:24  <zen--> you mean void* ?
10:39:37  <Tron> all of them
10:39:43  <zen--> char* is correct
10:39:44  <Tron> especially the void*
10:39:49  <Tron> no, it isn't
10:39:53  <zen--> why
10:39:57  <Tron> the declaration of the function should just be const char*
10:41:30  <zen--> but, as long as the datatype size is the same it will compile tho
10:41:39  <Tron> realloc((void*)array, (int)16);
10:41:46  <peter1138> o_O
10:41:49  <Tron> discarding the return value of realloc is _always_ a bug
10:42:14  <KUDr> :) yes, common one
10:42:21  <Tron> common?
10:42:35  <KUDr> i saw it 10 years ago first time
10:42:47  <KUDr> then approx 10 times
10:42:47  <Tron> if by "common" you mean "i never have seen that", then yes, common
10:42:55  <zen--> if realloc fails, i say the proccess should fail anyway and terminate
10:43:08  <KUDr> :)
10:43:23  <Tron> <zen--> if realloc fails, i say the proccess should fail anyway and terminate <--- and?
10:43:25  <KUDr> zen-- realloc gives you different pointer
10:43:28  <Tron> what are you trying to tell us?
10:43:31  <KUDr> usually
10:43:55  <Tron> read the realloc man page
10:44:46  <Tron> / static Console.WriteFormatted
10:44:46  <Tron> void Console_WriteFormatted_600001f(char* format, void* a0, void* a1, void* a2)
10:44:46  <Tron> {
10:44:46  <Tron>
10:44:46  <Tron>     printf((char*)format, (void*)a0, (void*)a1, (void*)a2);
10:44:47  <Tron>     return;
10:44:49  <Tron> }
10:44:51  <Tron> OMG
10:44:58  <Tron> man vprintf
10:46:01  <zen--> thnx:)
10:46:05  <Tron> and all those casts are bogus at best
10:46:11  <zen--> the problem is
10:46:35  <zen--> i cannot correctly guess the right cast:)
10:46:42  <zen--> as its variable parameter
10:46:51  <zen--> it can be a string, int or byte or anything else
10:46:55  <Tron> that's not your problem
10:47:06  <Tron> read how variadic functions work
10:47:52  <Tron> the "..." in the function declaration is C syntax, not some artistic thing
10:48:00  <egladil> Tron: would this be more to your liking:  ?
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10:48:29  <Tron> egladil: as i said: do whatever you want, i just pointed out what my intention behind Pixel was/is
10:49:28  <Tron> zen--: printf() et al. are no magic keyword which eats a variable amount of parameters - unlike Pascal's writeln for example. It's just a normal function declaration
10:51:26  <zen--> but, the ... convention is not MSIL compatible... so i cannot directly map it
10:51:50  <Tron> MSIL?
10:52:00  <Tron> it's perfectly valid C syntax, period
10:52:32  <KUDr> zen-- you work on C generator from MSIL code?
10:53:01  <peter1138> so how does string.Format() work?
10:53:10  <zen--> eys
10:53:12  <zen--> yes
10:53:31  <Zr40> peter1138: with an array
10:53:57  <KUDr> zen-- nice :) but bit useless for ottd i guess
10:55:19  <peter1138> right
10:55:30  <peter1138> string string.Format(string format, params object[] args)
10:55:48  <Zr40> however, I *did* find a function with ... syntax
10:55:49  <peter1138> i somehow think params object[] args could be (directly?) mapped to ...
10:55:56  <zen--> indirectly is equal to  string string.Format(string format, object[] args)
10:56:04  <Zr40> string.Concat(Object, Object, Object, Object, ...)
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10:56:17  <zen--> not at MSIL level:P
10:56:23  <peter1138> string.Format() certainly doesn't require you to put the arguments into an explicit array
10:56:33  <zen--> c# compiler will
10:56:37  <Fujitsu> Why are we talking .NET?
10:56:40  <zen--> and they are explicit at MSIL
10:56:42  <KUDr> peter1138: but in C without type info
10:57:13  <zen--> the 32bbp screens look great
10:57:59  <KUDr> Fujitsu: to learn something new
10:58:06  <peter1138> Console_WriteLine_6000021((char*)"");
10:58:07  <peter1138> o_O
10:58:35  <Fujitsu> MSIL is silly, therefore .NET is silly.
10:58:42  <zen--> no it isnt
10:58:49  <zen--> MSIL is similar to java bytecode
10:58:56  <jnmbk> hi devs , I just uploaded a Turkish Town Name generator patch at can you make some comments?
10:58:58  <Zr40> Fujitsu: if you come up with such silly statements, at least provide arguments
10:59:22  <zen--> xactly
11:00:33  <Zr40> zen--: PM
11:04:52  <Zr40> have you read it?
11:08:33  <zen--> great
11:08:34  <zen--> yes
11:08:47  <zen--> this elminates the need for 3param dummies
11:08:59  <zen--> i wonder why it isnt documented on the ms side
11:09:36  <zen--> but
11:09:41  <zen--> how do i pass the __arglist
11:10:27  <Tron> man stdarg
11:11:06  <Tron>     local_0 = (((i < 0)) ? 0 : (i < that->_size));
11:11:14  <Tron> (((((((you wrote too much lisp))))))
11:12:03  <zen--> i never wrote lisp:)
11:12:09  <zen--> its how msil represents it
11:12:18  <zen--> short circut or
11:12:21  <Tron> ((i < 0)) <-- i doubt that
11:12:38  <zen--> the extra braces are overkill
11:12:39  <zen--> :)
11:13:35  <peter1138> neeeeeeeeeeeaooooooowww
11:13:51  <peter1138> (that was the sound of a low flying aeroplane flying directly above zen--)
11:14:21  <zen--> lol
11:16:12  <Zr40> how does C ... actually work?
11:16:56  <Tron> magic, of course
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11:17:04  <Zr40> thought so
11:17:10  <CIA-5> egladil * r4239 /branch/32bpp/ (11 files in 2 dirs): [32bpp] Differentiate between colour data and pixels. Colour data is what sprites are made of, while pixels makes up the frame buffer. (Based on what tron said about his intentions with Pixel.)
11:17:27  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4240 /branch/yapf/ (Makefile stdafx.h yapf/unittest/unittest.cpp): [YAPF] unittest now uses endian_host.h instead of endian_target.h
11:17:57  <Zr40> yapf? yet another ...?
11:18:08  <Tron> Zr40: what do you mean by "actually work"?
11:18:11  <sijmen> I've got two little questions about the dedicated server.. first: how to calculate the restart_game_date value? The setting is grayed out in the path config screen
11:18:28  <KUDr> Zr40: pathfinder
11:18:31  <Zr40> Tron: how are the arguments covered by ... passed?
11:18:32  <Zr40> ah
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11:19:44  <Tron> no type information gets passed, if that's the question
11:19:57  <Zr40> nope
11:20:26  <zen--> the __arglist does not reflect, so i cannot use it the way i was hoping
11:20:27  <Zr40> I mean, *how* do they get passed? a pointer? something else? :P
11:20:46  <zen--> they are passed on a stack
11:20:57  <Tron> no necessarily
11:20:59  <Tron> +t
11:21:09  <Tron> it depends on the ABI of the platform
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11:22:04  <Zr40> zen--: it appears System.ArgIterator works with internal magic :(
11:22:10  <Tron> for x86 the variadic parameters are passed on the stack
11:22:20  <zen--> x86 dispatch:
11:22:22  <Tron> the right most parameter gets pushed onto the stack first
11:22:47  <Tron> so that the non-variadic parameters, which are left and there must be at least one, are on top and can be retrieved easily
11:23:29  <Tron> integer parameters shorter than an int get promoted to int
11:23:37  <Tron> float is promoted to double
11:24:20  <Tron> va_arg(list, char) <-- wrong
11:24:34  <Tron> even if it was a char, use va_arg(list, int)
11:25:04  <zen--> thats byte alignment at 32bit
11:25:09  <zen--> what u talkin about
11:25:11  <Tron> no
11:25:38  <Tron> the C standard says so
11:28:51  <Tron> -		memcpy(dp, sp, w * sizeof(Pixel32));
11:28:51  <Tron> +		memcpy(dp, sp, w * sizeof(Pixel));
11:29:10  <Tron> and this, kids, is why you always should use sizeof(*variable)
11:31:10  <peter1138> mmm
11:31:48  <KUDr> <Tron> va_arg(list, char) <-- wrong <-- I didn't know that
11:32:16  <Tron> Bad(tm) things happen, if you do this
11:32:25  <Tron> rather Bad Things(tm)
11:33:07  <KUDr> on what platform/compiler?
11:33:14  <dp--> eg it highlights random people when you paste it on irc!
11:33:39  <peter1138> egladil: company colours... they change hue, what about saturation?
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11:34:40  <egladil> peter1138: they will do that too
11:34:45  <peter1138> good
11:34:49  <peter1138> it looks wrong now ;)
11:34:55  <Brianetta> what looks worng?
11:34:59  <egladil> i know :)
11:35:00  <peter1138> luminosity too, i suppose
11:35:07  <peter1138> Brianetta: company colours in the 32bpp build
11:35:09  <egladil> that is harder to fix
11:35:29  <peter1138> why?
11:35:38  <egladil> as it takes the brightness from the source image to make gradients
11:35:39  <peter1138> can't have grey being the same as white...
11:35:50  <peter1138> just scale it?
11:35:59  <egladil> that is possible
11:36:29  <peter1138> problem is, i might end up playing zoomed out as it looks so nice ;p
11:36:49  <egladil> however, now i'm off to school to write an assignment (as i never get anything done here at home)
11:37:28  <peter1138> hmm, the newspaper window looks wrong
11:40:54  <peter1138> openttd: spriteloader8.c:274: CompactSpriteCache: Assertion `i != (&_sprite_ptr[(sizeof(_sprite_ptr)/sizeof(_sprite_ptr[0]))])' failed.
11:40:57  <peter1138> o_O
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11:51:11  <zen--> wohoo fixed:D
11:51:21  <zen--> __varargs is a calling convention in .net
11:51:49  <zen--> learn new each day
11:51:50  <zen--> :)
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12:21:40  <KUDr> Tron: ping
12:21:47  <Tron> hm?
12:21:50  <KUDr> [11:10:14] <Tron> KUDr: tell me the passage in tcpppl which states this <-- ISO/IEC 14882:1998(E)
12:21:56  <KUDr> i found it
12:22:07  <KUDr> the static const
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12:41:03  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r4241 /trunk/network_server.c: - Fix: Perform validation on the error number that a server receives from a client. An invalid value may cause the server to terminate.
12:49:21  <CIA-5> tron * r4242 /trunk/ (13 files): Pass TileIndex and slope to GetSlopeTileh_*() instead of TileInfo
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12:55:02  <Tron> ===> Compiling network_server.c
12:55:02  <Tron> network_server.c:46: error: `NETWORK_ERROR_END' undeclared here (not in a function)
12:55:02  <Tron> gmake: *** [network_server.o] Fehler 1
12:55:03  <Tron> peter1138: ?
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13:10:33  <Tron> peter1138: mister nelson?
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13:32:36  <Sacro> O RLY?
13:33:19  *** jnmbk_ [n=jnmbk@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:35:18  <SpComb> YA RLY
13:36:08  <Sacro> SRSLY?
13:36:15  <hylje> NO WAI
13:38:43  <Zr40> WTF?
13:38:52  <SpComb> awesome
13:39:03  <Sacro> hehe
13:39:06  <raspi> YA WAI
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13:41:09  <Sacro> {o,o}
13:41:09  <Sacro> |)__)
13:41:09  <Sacro> -"-"-
13:41:09  <Sacro> O RLY?
13:42:00  <hylje> dont make me paste the full YA RLY macro =p
13:42:50  <Sacro> hylje: i cant make you do anything
13:43:24  <hylje> tempt
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13:44:47  * XeryusTC tempts hylje
13:45:12  <Sacro> hehe
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14:05:39  <black_Nightmare> the international airport was only one tile wider+deeper than the city airport right?
14:09:00  <TrueLight> The Official OpenTTD Server uses 10 GB a month
14:09:01  <TrueLight> not too bad
14:09:31  <black_Nightmare> just wondering if I was right
14:09:50  <black_Nightmare> trying to put signs around to preserve my space against city growth so I can upgrade when this newer airport finally comes out ^_^
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14:35:57  <Tron> peter1138: ?
14:36:58  <CIA-5> tron * r4243 /trunk/network_server.c: Unbreak compilation
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14:42:42  <zen--> c allows so small apps:)
14:43:03  <zen--> and after packed with upx its even smaller
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14:49:11  <magnus_1986> **Testing if freenode authenticated me** If anybody sees this, please say so
14:49:43  <zen--> yes
14:49:47  <Scia> magnus_1986: I can't see it
14:50:19  <Sacro> see what?
14:50:27  <magnus_1986> Scia you got nice telepathic powers though
14:50:41  <Scia> magnus_1986: thanks! ;)
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15:01:03  <Sacro> id like the game to update my semaphores to light signals when i go to elrails
15:05:19  <MiHaMiX> hmm
15:05:33  <MiHaMiX> it's the second day without proper nightly builds
15:05:48  <Sacro> and have it automagically build semaphores pre-1970ish
15:05:50  <MiHaMiX> I hope nightly build will succeed today
15:06:08  <Sacro> people breaking the compilation?
15:06:17  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: makefile-related problems
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15:06:25  <MiHaMiX>
15:06:29  <MiHaMiX> make[1]: Entering directory `/ottd_farm/compile'
15:06:29  <MiHaMiX> Makefile:228: *** WITH_SDL can't be used when SDL_CONFIG is not set. Edit Makefile.config to correct this.  Stop.
15:06:32  <MiHaMiX> make[1]: Leaving directory `/ottd_farm/compile'
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15:09:45  <magnus_1986> MiHaMiX well, set SDL_CONFIG then
15:10:01  <magnus_1986> looks like a missing ; somewhere
15:10:34  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: im no good at writing makefiles
15:11:10  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: no prob, I think it's already fixed. It'll turn out at 20:00 CEST :)
15:11:26  <Sacro> and BST?
15:11:47  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: BST? which timezone that? :) GMT +- xxxx
15:13:15  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: +1 i think
15:13:33  <Sacro> or it could be -1
15:13:49  <TrueLight> MiHaMiX: huh? Did it happen AGAIN :(
15:13:53  <TrueLight> ah, of course it does...
15:13:54  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: it's 17:14 CEST here
15:14:04  <MiHaMiX> TrueLight: can you do something agains it? :(
15:14:11  <TrueLight> not against it, but I can solve it :p
15:14:31  <MiHaMiX> :P do what you think :P
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15:14:51  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: well its 16:14 here
15:15:32  <Sacro> bbl all
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15:15:44  <TrueLight> I need to edit all Makefiles :(
15:16:02  <MiHaMiX> TrueLight: but that's not a problem for you, is it? :)
15:16:06  <TrueLight> :(
15:16:08  <TrueLight> 20 files? :S
15:16:45  <MiHaMiX> TrueLight: vim -o file1 file2 file3 ... :)
15:16:56  <TrueLight> still
15:16:57  <TrueLight> 40 changes
15:16:58  <TrueLight> in 20 files
15:17:12  <MiHaMiX> TrueLight: poor TrueLight! :-((( :D
15:17:18  <MiHaMiX> TrueLight: is it better now? :)
15:18:14  <TrueLight> done, it should work now
15:18:59  <MiHaMiX> cool :)
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15:42:48  <peter1138> `hmmmm
15:42:58  <peter1138> the nightly builds use configure, right?
15:43:13  <Tron> ah, Mr. Nelson
15:43:19  <Tron> i tried to contact you
15:43:34  <peter1138> hmm
15:43:35  <TrueLight> peter1138: not yet
15:43:41  <TrueLight> peter1138: working on that, but it was standing still
15:44:19  <peter1138> Tron: whooops, that bit sneaked in :(
15:45:21  <peter1138> is TileInfo on death row?
15:45:58  <Tron> a bit
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16:30:38  <orudge> Hmm, just a note, do people realise the 32bpp VC6 project is broken? Generally, you shouldn't edit these files manually, VC doesn't like it
16:30:43  <orudge> and refuses to load it
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16:31:50  <CIA-5> egladil * r4244 /branch/32bpp/ (87 files in 7 dirs): [32bpp] Merge from trunk: revisions 4160:4243
16:33:46  <orudge> Just as I checked it out and everything
16:33:47  * orudge sighs ;)
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17:05:35  <jnmbk> Hi, does my town name generator have any chance to be merged into trunk? (
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17:12:50  <zen--> orudge should know
17:13:31  <orudge> Should I?
17:13:33  * orudge knows not
17:13:40  <orudge> Darkvater or tron someone would be your best bet
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18:03:52  <CIA-5> tron * r4245 /trunk/pathfind.c: Simplify FindLengthOfTunnel()
18:06:33  <michi_cc> I've found some RailType type mismatches and two possible 64-bit pitfalls
18:06:42  <michi_cc> somebody might like to look at this patch
18:07:35  <michi_cc> question actually, is somebody building a linux 64-bit version?
18:07:51  <MiHaMiX> michi_cc: yes, we at nightly builds
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18:08:22  <michi_cc> okay, have to slightly hack my patch then
18:08:48  <MiHaMiX> michi_cc: it's just built in this minute :)
18:09:22  <michi_cc> 64-bit linux was okay, 64-bit windows might not have been
18:10:03  <MiHaMiX> well, currently we don't build 64bit windows binaries
18:11:18  <michi_cc> is sizeof(long) == sizeof(void*) for 64-bit linux?
18:11:41  <TrueLight> michi_cc: yup
18:11:44  <TrueLight> only windows breaks that
18:11:49  <TrueLight> we should replace all those instances with size_t
18:11:54  <TrueLight> which seems to be safe over every platform
18:11:57  * TrueLight shots windows
18:12:14  <TrueLight> Windows of all 64bit platforms really is the only one who doesn't make a long of the same length as a void * :(
18:12:18  <TrueLight> I believe long long was the way for Windows
18:12:57  <michi_cc> annoyingly, yes
18:13:00  <TrueLight> Tron: we did have a commit-hold between 19:45 and 20:15, did we not?
18:13:03  <Tron> <TrueLight> which seems to be safe over every platform <-- (u)intptr_t is guaranteed to be safe
18:13:53  <Tron> TrueLight: i thought you used svn up -r '{20:00}'
18:14:10  <TrueLight> Tron: I do, but some nightly game-servers don't
18:14:16  <TrueLight> in fact, I don't do that
18:14:18  <TrueLight> but I do one checkout
18:14:19  <michi_cc> can I assume intptr_t is always present (excluding windows of course ;)
18:14:20  <TrueLight> so it can never be a problem
18:14:40  <TrueLight> michi_cc / Tron: size_t is available on every platform, so it really is safer in my opinion
18:14:43  <Tron> michi_cc: any C99 conforming compiler shall have it
18:14:47  <TrueLight> but okay, I don't care, just don't break the nightly....
18:15:01  <TrueLight> michi_cc: so MSVC doesn't support it :p
18:15:07  <TrueLight> neither morphos, with his gcc 2.95.3
18:15:10  <TrueLight> but okay
18:15:22  <Tron> TrueLight: ANSI disagrees with you what's safer
18:15:44  <TrueLight> Tron: size_t is proven to exist on many systems, where others fail from time to time :)
18:16:02  <TrueLight> michi_cc: the other solution, make for win64 long long, and for the other 64bit systems long :p
18:16:24  <michi_cc> i've used size_t now, please check
18:16:47  <Tron> TrueLight: these systems are broken, and if you always work around broken systems they never will get fixed because they get away with it
18:17:12  <TrueLight> Tron: calling MSVC broken is pretty bolt, and I doubt if us refusing to work around it will change anything... MSVC is doomed anyway
18:17:34  <TrueLight> michi_cc: this makes win64 to compile?
18:18:06  <michi_cc> fixes a bug which *could* lead to a crash
18:18:26  <TrueLight> michi_cc: let me run it through some other targets, see if they complain
18:18:36  <Tron> TrueLight: bold, not bolt, and yes, it is broken
18:19:09  <TrueLight> michi_cc: but you have to wait till the nightlies are done (3 minutes)
18:19:22  <michi_cc> actually, the more recent visual studios are much better, but I have to agree, MSVC 6 *is* very broken
18:19:22  <Tron> michi_cc: the saveload.c chunk?
18:19:40  <michi_cc> saveload.c and settings.h
18:19:52  <michi_cc> the others are more cosmetics
18:19:57  <Tron> well, the void* is abused as offset, too
18:20:28  <Tron> if we ever get offsets larger than 4 gigabytes (in a struct!), then it might be a problem
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18:21:36  <Tron> so, no, it's not a problem
18:21:55  <peter1138> aww
18:22:10  <peter1138> sounds like an 'enterprise' system
18:22:12  <peter1138> struct data {
18:22:27  <peter1138>   byte var1; byte var2; byte var3; ... byte var5023415122121;
18:22:28  <peter1138> }
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18:22:44  <peter1138> i read thedailywtf too much, i think
18:22:59  <Celestar> yoy
18:23:02  <Celestar> :P
18:23:03  <michi_cc> who knows what the future might bring... ;) anyway, your decision
18:23:28  <TrueLight> all void* -> integer conversions should be done via size_t, not unsigned long, because it is the most working we have on all targets
18:24:11  <Tron> peter1138: i found a nice WTF in network.c today
18:24:28  <Tron> line 303
18:24:34  <Celestar> any news on the desync fron ?
18:24:35  <Celestar> t
18:24:40  <Tron> the whole loop
18:24:47  <Tron> Celestar: desync?
18:25:01  <peter1138> wtf
18:25:19  <Tron> 99% of the desyncs are caused by newgrf mismatch
18:25:21  <TrueLight> Tron: BEOS code, what do you epxect?
18:25:40  <Tron> 0.9% are caused by newgrf mismatch
18:25:43  <Tron> 0.09% are caused by newgrf mismatch
18:25:49  <Tron> the rest are programming errors
18:26:18  <Tron> TrueLight: it's totally overkill, half of the variables don't even need to exist
18:26:44  <Tron> there's the * conversion modifier in scanf() for a reason
18:26:48  <TrueLight> michi_cc: all targets like your patch, so I suggest to apply it, because it really is wrong to assume unsigned long is sizeof(void *), although itis true on most systems
18:26:51  <Celestar> Tron: from what I've heard, there are quite a number of desyncs in 0.4.6+, even without newgrfs loaded. could not verify.
18:26:56  <TrueLight> Tron: not my code
18:27:02  <Tron> and i REALLY like to see the trick how read can be < 0
18:27:07  <Celestar> Tron: I noticed the warning in water_map.h will fix tomorrow. on the road atm
18:27:16  <Tron> because read contains the number of consumed characters
18:27:34  <Tron> and by applying simple logic you come to the conclusion that thisd number is at least 0
18:28:29  <Tron> <Celestar> Tron: from what I've heard, there are quite a number of desyncs in 0.4.6+, even without newgrfs loaded. could not verify. <--- oh, people may not have newgrfs, but the servers they're joining do
18:28:30  <TrueLight> yeah, or < 0 for errors, very good :)
18:28:31  <michi_cc> TrueLight: yeah, it'll probably work for a long time still, but you might never know what thing will turn out a time-bomb
18:29:00  <TrueLight> michi_cc: it was known at the time I changed it to unsigned long, that windows would complain. And some other systems in the near future will too, we just don't have anyone compiling on them :)
18:29:05  <Tron> TrueLight: it cannot be < 0
18:29:05  <Celestar> Tron: possibly.
18:29:08  <TrueLight> unsigned long was the ugliest, but fastest, solution :)
18:29:11  <Celestar> Tron: we need newgrf checking :S
18:29:30  <peter1138> i'm working on it :)
18:30:05  <michi_cc> well, I am compiling win64 from time to time, so I'll probably bug you again if I notice anything :)
18:30:22  <Celestar> peter1138: great :)
18:30:30  <MiHaMiX> TrueLight: could we officially create win64 nightlies, too?
18:30:59  <Tron> for whom? somebody running windows server 2003 on his IA64?
18:31:26  <michi_cc> more like Windows XP x64 on his AMD64
18:31:28  <TrueLight> michi_cc: please, do bug me, sadly enough I only won't commit this.... one of the active devs need to do that
18:31:34  <MiHaMiX> Tron: your point is mistaken
18:31:44  <TrueLight> MiHaMiX: I dunno, I have to look into it if mingw32 supports it
18:31:49  <TrueLight> as the name suggests, it might not work
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18:31:56  <michi_cc> even getting an IA64 compiler is more than difficult
18:31:59  <MiHaMiX> TrueLight: ok, do so please:)
18:32:01  <TrueLight> Tron: too bad for you, there is a 64bit XP edition
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18:32:34  <Tron> oh yeah, and everybody is using it because running 32bit software works so flawlessly
18:32:53  <Tron> if you find sarcasm, you may keep it
18:33:06  <jnmbk> Tron: Does my Turkish town name generator have any chance to be merged into trunk? (
18:33:20  <michi_cc> oh, it does. at least if you don't play every one of the newest kewl games
18:33:33  <TrueLight> Tron: so we should just put our head in the ground and ignore it.... oh well, if that is what you want, just go ahead
18:33:38  <TrueLight> in the meanwhile I look into mingw for 64bit
18:34:32  <Celestar> Tron: any more progress on the map front?
18:34:40  <Tron> ostriches don't do that. i wouldn't try to scare them to see it, they have quite developed feet muscles, one kick and you need a _good_ doctor
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18:35:52  <Tron> you're the guy who ignores stuff, like what the standard says what's right
18:36:16  <peter1138> so anyway
18:36:16  <peter1138> hmm
18:36:45  <Tron> so please tell me of the chip in my i after you removed the beam from yours
18:36:53  <Tron> s/i/eye/
18:37:55  <MiHaMiX> hmm
18:38:19  <MiHaMiX> it's similar to one of the hungarian sayings ;)
18:38:31  <Tron> it's in the bible
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18:39:30  <MiHaMiX> 'Someone notices the splinter in someone else's eye; but fais to notice the rafter in his own eye'
18:39:32  <Tron> Matthew 7,3
18:39:50  <MiHaMiX> Tron: can you tell something to jnmbk's question?
18:40:09  <Tron> i haven't looked at it, sorry
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18:43:46  <TrueLight> michi_cc / MiHaMiX: it seems I compiled the 32bit version on request... I have a gcc32.. that tells me it should be possible to make gcc64
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18:44:29  <michi_cc> TrueLight: I googled a bit and it seems that at least MingW won't do Win64 for now
18:44:43  <TrueLight> michi_cc: the stories aren't in sync
18:45:00  <michi_cc> calling convention and similar stuff is just very much different to amd64 linux
18:46:14  <TrueLight> The "32" has been removed to prevent an implication that MinGW only supports 32-bit architectures. MinGW will move forward to support 64-bit and higher architectures.
18:46:59  <TrueLight> I _hate_ SourceForge... you can't sort on anything :(
18:47:02  <michi_cc> a generic gcc64 for amd64 is no problem, but MS just had to have it's one way here, and I haven't seen any gcc support for the specific details of the Win64 architecture
18:49:24  <TrueLight> all the stories come down to: it will be there, just not yet
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18:50:30  <TrueLight> so MiHaMiX, sadly enough we can't provide nightlies of this taste
18:50:34  <TrueLight> that makes me said, but okay...
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18:51:03  <michi_cc> Tron: i've just checked my webserver logs for the downloads of my 0.4.6 and 0.4.7 Win64 builds, and I wouldn't call over 250 downloads nobody
18:51:53  <TrueLight> michi_cc: for sure it is used :) Same for the MacOSX builds, the BEOS builds, the OS/2 builds... there are always people using them :)
18:52:01  <Tron> michi_cc: i would take this statistics with a grain^Wmetric ton of salt
18:52:07  <tokai> do not forget morphos build! :)
18:52:10  <TrueLight> and it is a good thing to support as many targets as possible, that is (or was?) the aim of the project
18:52:13  * tokai hides
18:52:14  <TrueLight> sorry tokai :)
18:52:24  <TrueLight> I knew I forgot one weird system :p
18:52:27  <Tron> clueless idiots download all kinds of stuff
18:52:42  <Tron> we once had one complaining he couldn't unpack the .dep with winzip
18:52:50  <tokai> Triffid_Hunter: but i'm pretty sure that i reach most % of users :)
18:52:55  <Tron> s/\.dep/.deb/
18:52:56  <tokai> TrueLight even
18:52:58  <michi_cc> okay, it's normal to not get much responses to that, so I've actually know idea how many are really using it
18:53:26  <michi_cc> but note that I didn't advertise it anywhere outside of the OpenTTD forum
18:53:26  <TrueLight> tokai: yeah, but so what? 1 user is a user :)
18:53:33  <Celestar> ok I'll bbl
18:53:39  <tokai> TrueLight: thats 100% ;)
18:53:50  <egladil> [02 18:30 CEST] orudge Hmm, just a note, do people realise the 32bpp VC6 project is broken? Generally, you shouldn't edit these files manually, VC doesn't like it  <== hmm, didn't know it was broken
18:53:55  <TrueLight> tokai: yup, but so what :)
18:54:20  <tokai> TrueLight: well... its the lead in that statistic:)
18:54:58  <TrueLight> tokai: I am of opinion that OpenSource software should accept as many targets as possible, even if only 1 person uses it :)
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18:57:02  <tokai> TrueLight: well.. 1 is maybe over the top, but if that 1 person maintains the port.. why the dell not? ;)
18:57:15  <TrueLight> tokai: of course of course :)
18:59:23  <Tron> apropos BeOS: is there _any_ documentation about _netstat? the first three google hits are the openttd svn repo
19:05:04  <MiHaMiX> :DDD
19:06:23  <TrueLight> it is funny, when I search for things lately, I find the svn repo of openttd more and more :p
19:06:27  <TrueLight> like aystar :p
19:07:44  <orudge> egladil: It is ;)
19:07:52  <orudge> well, it was when I tried it earlier today
19:07:58  <orudge> before the trunk merge, didn't try it afterwards
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19:09:09  <egladil> i have no way to test that myself as i have no windows installation
19:12:31  <orudge> Oh, and was someone wanting 64-bit stuff testing?
19:12:38  * orudge shall test it in vmware later, as he can't be bothered to reboot
19:12:55  <orudge> Just got to install XP64 on it ;)
19:13:15  <orudge> I do like my uni being on the MSDN Academic Alliance programme
19:13:28  <TrueLight> night all
19:13:33  <orudge> Night, TrueLight
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19:23:10  <michi_cc> orudge: I didn't want testing, but posted a patch today that could fix a possible win64 bug, and slight chaos happen afterwards
19:23:56  <michi_cc> oh, and of course you could test the win64 0.4.7 binary from the forums, I'll get a proper report then at least
19:24:22  <orudge> Yes, I'll test that
19:26:23  <michi_cc> that'd be nice. It's always a bit frustrating to have a ton of downloads and no proper reports back
19:30:08  <SimonRC> "Can't Get There From Here" has a great long gap in the middle of it.
19:30:21  <SimonRC> Anyone else have that problem?
19:32:15  <orudge> Yep
19:32:21  <orudge> It's a known problem with the original MIDI file
19:32:28  <orudge> There are fixed versions floating around the forums
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19:33:44  <Bjarni> hi nice people of #openttd
19:35:44  <orudge> Hello nice Bjarni
19:36:01  <orudge> Ah, that's what I was going to do on my Mac
19:36:04  * orudge goes to do what he was going to do
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19:37:51  <SimonRC> Waitamo, if it's midi, why does my "wave" slider adjust its volume, not the "sw synth" slider?
19:38:16  <SimonRC> Unless OTTD includes a midi synthesiser, but that'd be silly, surely?
19:38:34  <Bjarni> what is VPN tunnelling?
19:38:48  <orudge> What OS, SimonRC?
19:38:48  <Bjarni> and is it useful for all OSes?
19:39:01  <orudge> VPN tunnelling I assume is tunnelling something over a virtual private network
19:39:58  <SimonRC> Tunnelling is the act of simulating a new Data Link Layer on top of the Transport Layer.
19:40:02  <Bjarni> is it's like a LAN, where one of the cables is the connection between two routers?
19:40:02  <Tron> there are lies, damn lies and the sprite coordinates of trees...
19:40:07  <SimonRC> Bjarni: no
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19:40:37  <orudge> It's a virtual LAN tunnelled over, say, the Internet, Bjarni
19:40:50  <SimonRC> a VPN is a *virtual* network, on in which the Data Link Layer is in fact on top of another network's Transport Layer.
19:40:57  <orudge> so you have two machines, A and B, in different countries, for instance, but they both have a virtual network adapter and they see each other as being on the same LAN
19:41:00  <orudge> in layman's terms
19:42:12  <SimonRC> In Linux, at least, it acts like a network card, but there is no real card, and no real cable.
19:42:28  <Bjarni> I think I get the idea
19:42:40  <Bjarni> now is the next thing: what should I use that for???
19:42:44  <SimonRC> BTW, I'm on XP ATM, with Debian access.
19:42:45  <Celestar> yo
19:42:53  <Bjarni> hi Celestar
19:43:06  <Celestar> whats new?
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19:43:14  <SimonRC> Bjarni: *cough* Anonet *cough*.
19:43:15  <Bjarni> I mean, when would you want VPN instead of just normal TCP/IP?
19:43:21  <SimonRC> Bjarni: I didn't mention it.
19:43:26  <SimonRC> oops
19:43:28  <SimonRC> lag
19:43:34  <SimonRC> Bjarni: secuity
19:44:11  <Bjarni> hmm
19:44:13  <SimonRC> Simplicity.
19:44:47  <Bjarni> is it commonly used?
19:44:51  <SimonRC> Also, some apps that pre-date the net want to think they're on a LAN.
19:44:55  <SimonRC> Bjarni: yeah
19:45:09  <SimonRC> often for telecommuting
19:45:39  <orudge> Well, the Win64 build of OpenTTD seems to work OK on XP64, I can't test sound and music as VMWare doesn't have a 64-bit driver for it yet it seems (could test it on my real hardware, but that'd involve a reboot)
19:45:52  <orudge> Didn't extensively play the game, but a load of the game, save a game, toodle round the map, etc, was OK
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19:46:42  <SimonRC> Woah, 2 forests, 108T and 144T, actually *touching*.
19:46:48  <SimonRC> $$$$$$$$$$$$
19:47:00  <peter1138> smallfry
19:47:15  <SimonRC> what is big, then?
19:47:22  <michi_cc> orudge: glad to hear that, i'd expect the rest to work as well then. thanks
19:47:22  <peter1138> come back when they're both 7-800 or more
19:47:34  <SimonRC> There is no way to make a primary industry grow.
19:47:55  <SimonRC> And no way to make one bigger.
19:48:06  <SimonRC> And no way to make one shut down, as if tht was helpful.
19:48:35  <peter1138> well
19:48:37  <peter1138> there are
19:48:41  <peter1138> if you don't mind cheating :)
19:50:12  <SimonRC> ah, ok
19:51:33  <SimonRC> I suppose it invloves demolishing a maglev bridge backwards underwater with train containing 32768 carridges on it?
19:51:37  <SimonRC> :-)
19:52:55  <Zr40> orudge: I've got a 64 bit windows installation here, I could test sound etc if you'd like
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19:53:10  <Bjarni> there is one thing that worries me. Only one person replied when calling all nice people in here and there are 97 people connected
19:53:32  <Bjarni> which means there is me, orudge and then 95 people, who are not considered nice
19:54:24  <Zr40> Bjarni: my IRC client does not highlight on 'nice people'
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19:55:16  <Bjarni> then it's broken :p
19:55:21  <Bjarni> (or right)
19:55:37  <orudge> Grr
19:55:41  <orudge> CodeWarrior is being a pain
19:55:47  <orudge> I want it to accept the trial licence thingy I've got
19:55:48  <orudge> but it doesn't seem to
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20:15:01  <orudge> Ugh, you can forget about a Mac OS Classic port of OpenTTD methinks, Bjarni, CodeWarrior is a horrible compiler
20:15:07  <orudge> or at least, it's acting like one just now :p
20:15:14  * orudge is having fun getting just strgen to build
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20:19:12  <Bjarni> heh
20:20:06  <Bjarni> orudge: you should be aware of one thing: the cocoa video driver is OSX only. Cocoa is NOT supported in OS9
20:20:14  <Celestar> does anyone have MSVC here and if so, what version?
20:20:36  <KUDr> 6, 7.1,8
20:20:39  <orudge> Yup, SDL is though, Bjarni ;)
20:20:45  <orudge> Also, where's the bloody hash key on the Mac keyboard? :s
20:20:49  <orudge> (well, on the UK Mac keyboard)
20:20:59  <Bjarni> hash?
20:21:00  <Celestar> KUDr: does it understand things like "UINT_MAX", "INT_MAX", "LONG_MAX" ?
20:21:13  <KUDr> will try..
20:21:14  <Celestar> KUDr: or does it containt limits.h?
20:21:18  <Celestar> contain.
20:21:20  <Celestar> KUDr: thanks.
20:21:33  <orudge> Ah, Alt+3 it seems
20:21:36  * orudge thanks
20:21:38  <orudge> Bjarni: #
20:21:44  <Bjarni> ahh
20:21:47  <Bjarni> #
20:21:54  <Bjarni> it's shift+3 here
20:22:01  <orudge> We have a pound sign ther
20:22:01  <orudge> e
20:22:05  <Celestar> #
20:22:05  <orudge> PC keyboards have # with ~
20:22:11  <orudge> but the Mac puts that somewhere else too
20:22:14  * orudge sighs
20:22:25  <Celestar> the only thing I really hate about Macs is the default keyboard.
20:22:40  <Bjarni> pound used to be shift+4, but now it's EUR :(
20:22:46  <Bjarni> pound is alt+4
20:22:48  <hylje> :|
20:23:51  <KUDr> Celestar: <limits.h> works on all of them
20:26:02  <peter1138> pound is shift-3
20:26:02  <peter1138> £
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20:28:51  <Celestar> KUDr: thank you. one worry less
20:29:05  <KUDr> np
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20:36:05  <orudge> Ah, wait
20:36:07  *** Schamane_ is now known as SchAmane
20:36:07  <orudge> string.h is confusing it
20:36:26  <orudge> When stdafx.h does #include <string.h>, it keeps looking at the OpenTTD string.h and not the OS string.h :s
20:37:43  <orudge> Silly thing
20:38:19  <peter1138> o_O
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20:43:53  <orudge> Yay, got strgen built
20:44:06  <orudge> Had to rename string.h, but, ah well, this is more proof of concept than anything else ;>
20:44:47  <peter1138> so it doesn't understand the difference between #include <> and #include "" ?
20:45:48  <Brianetta> What a lame compiler.
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20:49:28  <orudge> Well, it doesn't seem to in this instance
20:49:33  <orudge> and I can't find an option to make it work nicely
20:50:14  <orudge> Also, there's now the loveliness of the whole pre-OS X path separator system
20:50:25  <orudge> eg, I had to manually hack strgen to look for :lang:english.txt, as opposed to lang/english.txt
20:50:33  * orudge thinks he shalln't bother with the main game
20:50:36  <orudge> Not for now, anyway...
20:51:34  * SpComb bothers with orudge
20:54:18  <orudge> Bleh, it's all very hideous
20:58:56  <orudge> At least OS/2 has some decent compilers :)
20:59:04  <orudge> Hmm, maybe I can port OpenTTD to the Atari ST...
20:59:13  <orudge> Or some other form of Atari.
20:59:15  * orudge ponders :p
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21:00:27  <orudge> That'd be amusing, when you think about it
21:00:31  <orudge> considering Atari now own TTD, in theory.
21:03:43  <orudge> Ooh, and yay, the OS/2 port of SDL has been integrated into the trunk at last
21:04:26  <Celestar> ok guys c u
21:04:32  <Celestar> will continue map cleanup tomorrow
21:05:31  *** e1ko [] has joined #openttd
21:05:38  <peter1138> hmm
21:06:53  <Celestar> bah some of this code is still rather crappy :S
21:07:07  <peter1138> well take mine out of it
21:07:30  <Vornicus> there's a lot of crappy code in there.  This is why tron is actually capable of removing magic numbers every day.
21:07:40  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> grep ^_ tags | wc -l
21:07:41  <Celestar> 1260
21:07:44  <Celestar> especially gthis
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21:08:47  <Celestar> I mean about 50% of all "global" variables are referenced in ONE function.
21:08:55  <Celestar> TWO if lucky
21:10:35  <Tron> Celestar: if my bridge magic works i'll kill _get_z_hint
21:11:28  <Celestar> :)
21:11:36  <peter1138> \o/
21:11:44  <Celestar> I have a diff that kills 3 "globals" in water_cmd.c
21:12:21  <Tron> hm?
21:12:46  * SimonRC goes.
21:13:03  <Celestar> well not really globals
21:13:06  <Celestar> but _variables
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21:14:04  <Tron> if _last_built_ship_depot_tile is among them i'm all for removing it
21:14:15  <Tron> i think this feature is obscure at best
21:14:57  <Celestar> :)
21:15:13  <Tron> (same for the other depots)
21:15:16  <Celestar> water_cmd.c:649:651
21:15:57  <Celestar> bah. clone vehicle should 1) have an amount selectable, 2) automatically start vehicle if original vehicle is started.
21:16:12  <Tron> 3) share order by default
21:16:31  <Celestar> 3) only if copy order shares order by default.
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21:19:36  <black_Nightmare> any of you use the canal construction? :p
21:19:46  <Celestar> or instead of 1). at least the function would remain active after one vehicle has been cloned.
21:19:52  <Celestar> black_Nightmare: rarely, but yes?
21:21:05  * Celestar goes to bed
21:21:08  <black_Nightmare> what you think of it yourself?
21:21:11  <Celestar> nite all.
21:21:14  <Celestar> black_Nightmare: well ...
21:21:19  <Celestar> ships are not worth a lot
21:21:59  <Celestar> but lock building is the only thing int he game with decent pricing :P
21:22:18  <Celestar> cu
21:22:28  <black_Nightmare> lol... :->
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21:26:18  * peter1138 gives up on newgrf saveload code (actually that bit (probably) works) and goes to bed
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21:40:43  <black_Nightmare> any of you know about the different helicopters?
21:41:16  <black_Nightmare> hard to tell but I wonder if AirTaxi A34-1000 was one or its actually an airplane?
21:41:28  <black_Nightmare> mentions it was designed in 2001
21:41:46  <Vornicus> Airbus I don't think is in the helicopter business.
21:42:06  <Vornicus> In any case, the later helicopters are obviously fictitious.
21:42:21  <black_Nightmare> oh ok ty anyhow
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21:42:56  * Vornicus used to work for Sikorsky Aircraft.
21:42:56  <black_Nightmare> yeah I noticed that
21:43:08  <black_Nightmare> Guru X2 is sure an unusual name
21:43:47  <black_Nightmare> love the International Airport ... seperated landings for the helicopters :p
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22:45:54  <Bjarni> <emdee> And never, EVER... allow your girlfriend to share a computer with your wife
22:46:02  <Bjarni> why not, they already share a man :p
22:46:49  *** glx_ is now known as glx
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22:54:45  <black_Nightmare> wheeeee.... 2,330km/h! :-P
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22:57:39  <Bjarni> <-- this one reminds me of something a bit similar at my school
22:57:59  <Bjarni> somebody connected SCSI to the parallel port o_O
22:58:18  <Bjarni> the cable was at least 40°C when it was detected
22:59:33  <Bjarni> not to mention the time when somebody inserted a disk into a floppy drive, that already had a disk in it... the disks were lost and a new drive was installed
22:59:47  <Bjarni> or something like that
23:00:06  <Zr40> you can actually connect SCSI cables to parallel ports?
23:00:37  *** Sacro [i=Ben@adsl-83-100-155-252.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:00:43  <Sacro> evening all
23:01:09  <Bjarni> Zr40: yeah
23:01:37  <Bjarni> the 25 pin SCSI port on old macs fitted parallel cables
23:03:43  <Bjarni> but I think the best incident in that computer room was then a guy broke the front of a computer, took out the HD while the computer was on.... right in front of the surveillance camera
23:04:11  <Bjarni> and even back then it was a crappy old HD
23:04:36  <Bjarni> <-- windows security at it's best :p
23:06:10  <glx> some users are stupid
23:06:31  <glx> that's the main security problem in windows
23:08:50  <Sacro> damit
23:09:17  <Sacro> the thing about dhcp, is it makes ssh'ing into a headless machine more interesting
23:09:39  *** christooss [] has joined #openttd
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23:09:45  <christooss> Hello
23:10:25  <Sacro> christooss: hello
23:11:36  <christooss> Now I I read topic :)
23:11:49  <christooss> I volontierd for translator
23:11:56  *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
23:12:01  <christooss> but I got no replly
23:12:46  <Bjarni> you didn't?
23:13:16  <Bjarni> well, the translator have been down for ages now :(
23:14:00  <christooss> argh
23:14:06  <christooss> I didn't knew
23:15:12  <christooss> so I can't translate
23:15:13  <Bjarni> <perro-ness> see.... i enjoy being able to go to class, fall asleep, and still do better than everyone else <-- yeah, that's fun to do :D
23:15:19  <Sacro> lol, just had to use an IP scanner to find my system
23:15:35  <Bjarni> Sacro: it's
23:16:25  <Sacro> Bjarni: my other system, havent got a spare monitor, and forgot it was on dhcp
23:16:36  <Bjarni> lol
23:17:51  <Sacro> seeing as my monitor got destroyed, and all my peripherals stolen
23:18:07  <Bjarni> 	<christooss>	so I can't translate <-- that's right. None of us can :(
23:18:43  <christooss> that sucks :(
23:19:28  <glx> christooss: this will be fixed soon
23:19:29  * Vornicus usually goes "ping" to find his headless box.
23:19:42  <Sacro> Vornicus: that didnt work under windoze
23:21:32  <Bjarni> Sacro: I would have asked the router what IPs it have given to find the headless one ;)
23:21:46  * Bjarni images Sacro scream at that simple solution
23:21:48  <Bjarni> :p
23:22:13  <Sacro> Bjarni: no router, ICS
23:22:25  <Bjarni> ICS?
23:22:31  <Sacro> internet connection sharing
23:22:53  <Bjarni> you really are making this tough on you
23:23:00  <Bjarni> no router and windows
23:23:10  <Sacro> its not my setup
23:23:23  <Bjarni> next you will tell me that you don't have a firewall either
23:23:23  <Vornicus> Sacro: suck.
23:23:33  <Sacro> Norton 2006
23:23:49  <Bjarni> startkeylogger
23:23:58  <Bjarni> ...
23:24:04  <Bjarni> die Sacro, die
23:24:09  <Bjarni> ...
23:24:14  <Bjarni> something is wrong here
23:24:29  <Sacro> what you doing to me?
23:24:38  *** Sacro was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [it can be done manually as well]
23:24:40  <Bjarni> :p
23:25:00  *** Sacro [i=Ben@adsl-83-100-155-252.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:25:06  * Sacro sulks
23:25:34  <Bjarni> startkeylogger is a norton bug, that drops the connection if it detects that string
23:25:44  <Bjarni> so it's really funny to say it in IRC
23:25:49  <SpComb> really really funny!
23:26:00  <Sacro> hmm, well it did nothing to me
23:26:08  <Bjarni> too bad lilo didn't broadcast it
23:26:15  <SpComb> :O
23:26:24  <SpComb> that would have been.... more than hilarious
23:26:31  <SpComb> way more than hilarious
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23:26:40  <Bjarni> Sacro: maybe it's not your version or something, or maybe you updated already
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23:27:05  * SpComb imagines lilo accidentially killing ten thousand freenode users all at once
23:27:17  <Bjarni> if not more
23:27:44  <Zr40> what's this, bash lilo day?
23:29:12  <Sacro> could well be
23:31:07  <SpComb> lilo is just good for bashing
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23:33:20  <black_Nightmare> ughhh damn it lol me and myself
23:33:28  <black_Nightmare> not all of my 2-tracks are signalled the same way
23:33:40  <black_Nightmare> eg one is signalled north on right side... another is left side for north
23:33:54  <black_Nightmare> was trying figure how to connect two seperate 2-track lines together and... DOH
23:33:58  <black_Nightmare> lol
23:34:11  <SpComb> hah
23:34:25  <SpComb> being consistent about signalling is pretty important
23:34:40  <SpComb> but with things like autosignal it's harder to remember
23:34:41  <black_Nightmare> I know I know
23:34:44  <Sacro> i always have signals on the outside
23:34:44  <SpComb> now, in ttd patch....
23:34:46  * SpComb runs away
23:34:54  <black_Nightmare> I'll just make a little junction to connect the 2 mainlines together
23:35:18  <Bjarni> either always have them on the same side OR really think though what you do
23:35:37  * SpComb sneaks back in
23:35:41  <Bjarni> I once used mixed since it actually was better in the special case I was in
23:35:54  <Bjarni> it was not a totally normal situation though
23:36:08  <Richk67> i sometimes foul up my stations - putting the in route one side, then discovering that the mainline runs the other way... grrr.
23:36:25  <SpComb> delete the route and make it go the other way round
23:36:31  <Bjarni> for some reason I never do anything like that
23:36:43  <SpComb> it's called, like planning!
23:37:16  <black_Nightmare> hehe well one thing for sure is...
23:37:16  <Richk67> yup... |PLAN AHEA|^d
23:37:18  <Sacro> Richk67: i do that
23:37:35  <black_Nightmare> I only presignal the station platforms themself then lay the route...
23:37:50  <black_Nightmare> and only when thats done I then finally signal everything between the two station crossover tracks
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23:48:33  <Sacro> O RLY
23:50:25  <Sacro> who keeps ident requesting?
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