Config
Log for #openttd on 7th April 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:12  <Richk67> lol
00:02:57  <nappe1> hmmh...
00:03:24  <nappe1> it looks like quite few things have changed between 4287 and 4303...
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00:07:41  <Bjarni> Tobin is here
00:07:44  <Bjarni> time to go to bed
00:08:00  <Bjarni> well, it was time to go to bed like 2 or 3 hours ago
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00:08:14  <Bjarni> goodnight
00:08:18  <Tobin> Morning all.
00:08:23  <Tobin> Bye Bjarni.
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00:09:15  <Richk67> mini IN posted - just the patch ATM against r4302
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05:40:13  <egladil> well, for those who are wondering there won't be any 32bpp progress for a week now as i am going away skiing
05:40:31  <egladil> so goodbye for a while #openttd
05:40:39  <stillunknown> have fun
05:41:09  <egladil> i will :)
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06:44:00  <peter1138> ouch
06:44:12  <peter1138> each GRFFile is over 40KB
06:44:32  <peter1138> that's without loading any data into it
06:48:40  <Tobin> Which GRF files?
06:48:54  <peter1138> GRFFile
06:48:54  <peter1138> a data structure
06:48:55  <Tobin> Oh, right.
06:49:01  <Tobin> Why so large?
06:50:00  <peter1138> because it contains a fixed array of 256 station specs
06:50:08  <peter1138> each is ~ 180 bytes
06:50:16  <peter1138> oh, 159
06:50:45  <peter1138> i'm changing it to allocate dynamically
06:51:46  <Tobin> Hooray for dynamic allocation!
06:51:59  <peter1138> == malloc etc, but... heh
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07:08:26  <CIA-5> tron * r4304 /trunk/network_gui.c: The chat box' parent window (the main toolbar, wtf?) doesn't care for the WE_ON_EDIT_TEXT_CANCEL event, so don't send one. This code looks like it was mindlessly copy&pasted from the query box
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07:17:20  <Celestar> morning
07:18:35  <Celestar> Tron: ping
07:18:43  <Rubidium> morning, you've got a bug in ELrails, #103
07:19:16  <CIA-5> celestar * r4305 /trunk/elrail.c: -Codechange: Minor elrail cleanup (Tron)
07:19:25  <Celestar> I do?
07:19:56  <Rubidium> look at it
07:20:29  <Celestar> roger
07:21:56  <Celestar> Rubidium: ah I see.
07:22:52  <Rubidium> nice
07:24:01  <Celestar> Rubidium: wouldn't it be a better fix to reset the railtype under the bridge?
07:25:09  <Rubidium> then your going to assume a lot; you should at least state that explicitly there, otherwise it will show up in a thorough code review
07:25:42  <Rubidium> but in that case, the function will not work for plain rail, only for EL, monorail and maglev
07:26:02  <Celestar> Rubidium: then both fixes? ;)
07:27:25  <Rubidium> that's maybe even better; resetting all unused bits to 0 when not used
07:28:25  <Celestar> but I agree that your fix is correct.
07:28:32  <Celestar> :q
07:28:39  <Celestar> ENOVI
07:29:41  <Rubidium> ENOVI?
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07:38:18  <Tron> Rubidium: error code for not being a vi
07:39:06  <CIA-5> celestar * r4306 /trunk/elrail.c: -Fix (103). Assertion when removing elrails under bridges. Thanks to Rubidium for reporting and fixing
07:39:12  <Celestar> thanks
07:39:27  <Rubidium> you're welcome
07:40:49  <CIA-5> celestar * r4307 /trunk/elrail.c: -Fix: Coding style in previous commit. Thanks to Tron for instant notice
07:42:25  <MiHaMiX> :DDD
07:42:32  <MiHaMiX> E_NOVI LOL :DD
07:43:33  <MiHaMiX> btw, good morning :)
07:44:10  <Naksu> vi?
07:44:11  <Naksu> pfft
07:44:18  <Naksu> real men use copy con
07:45:43  <Tron> %copy con
07:45:43  <Tron> copy: Command not found.
07:46:00  <Tron> cat is the way to go
07:46:24  <Tron> code reuse: cat a.out.header - > binary
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07:48:10  <Celestar> con: Command not found.
07:48:14  <Naksu> tron: use dos
07:48:42  <Tron> Celestar: that's the DOS pseudo device for the terminal
07:48:53  <Celestar> uh huh
07:48:55  <Naksu> copy con test.txt :)
07:49:02  <Tron> Naksu: real men don't use DOS
07:49:08  <Naksu> you get the best text editor in the universe
07:49:11  <Naksu> Tron: sure they do
07:49:58  <Tron> absolutly not, only quiche eaters do
07:50:52  <Naksu> o rly?
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07:52:19  <Tron> your keyboard drops letters randomly
07:54:50  <Naksu> no
07:54:57  <Naksu> it was fully intended
08:08:42  <peter1138> morning
08:09:30  <peter1138> Tron: so does yours :)
08:10:46  <Celestar> hm?
08:10:51  <Celestar> hi peter1138
08:10:55  <Celestar> how's stuff?
08:12:09  <peter1138> pretty ok
08:12:15  <peter1138> busy busy though
08:18:04  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4308 /branch/yapf/yapf/blob.hpp: [YAPF] added CBlobT::RemoveBySwap (remove item by ptr)
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08:23:30  <peter1138> Celestar: i need to work on newstation loading code
08:23:54  <peter1138> currently it uses a fixed array in each GRFFile that is about 40KB
08:24:08  <peter1138> even if there are no stations
08:27:47  <CIA-5> tron * r4309 /trunk/ (gui.h main_gui.c network_gui.c): The initial string of the chat box is always the empty string, so don't jump through hoops to check if nothing was entered and simplify the code
08:28:13  <peter1138> gzunip
08:28:14  <peter1138> guznip
08:28:16  <peter1138> gunzip
08:28:25  <peter1138> third time lucky o_O
08:29:45  <peter1138> Tron: http://195.112.37.102/ottd/toco.diff < probably pretty hacky, but it gives the chat window colour when sending team messages
08:30:11  <Tron> peter1138: atm i'm busy with fixing the more severe problems of the chat box
08:30:26  <Tron> like the 86byte buffer overflow
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08:34:33  <peter1138> heh
08:36:02  <Tron> or the never printed string
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08:37:45  <CIA-5> tron * r4310 /trunk/ (27 files in 3 dirs): The chat box has no visible window title, therefore remove the string
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08:42:35  <CIA-5> celestar * r4311 /trunk/bridge_map.h: -Fix/Codechange: Clear the railtype when removing rail under a bridge. FS#103 exhibited this problem
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08:57:07  <CIA-5> tron * r4312 /trunk/ (gui.h main_gui.c network_gui.c): Calculate the maximum pixel width of the entered text in the chat box from the "text box"-widget instead of hardcoding an arbitrary - and wrong - number
08:59:07  <Vornicus> yey
09:00:03  <DarkSSH> jezus, it took me 10 minutes to log on to this damn thing
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09:00:59  <CIA-5> tron * r4313 /trunk/ (gui.h main_gui.c network_gui.c): The parent window of the chat box is always the main toolbar (?!), therefore don't pass this information as parameter
09:03:55  <Darkvater> nice going Tron :)
09:04:43  <Celestar> Tron: Darkvater: what do you think about "the" gantt chart?
09:05:30  <Zr40> woo, my first working and useful patch :D
09:05:40  <Celestar> Zr40: ?
09:05:59  <Zr40> just created :)
09:06:48  <Darkvater> Celestar: "the" ;)
09:07:06  <Darkvater> I had to make one for a project at school. named it that gnatt chart
09:07:37  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/openttd-chart.html <= I've made an exemplary gantt chart
09:07:57  <CIA-5> tron * r4314 /trunk/ (gui.h main_gui.c network_gui.c): -Fix: a buffer overflow of the chat box introduced in r1263. Don't tell the Textbuf an arbitrary number as size of the string buffer, but the real lengthof() it
09:08:10  <Zr40> Celestar: I've put it here: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/104
09:09:01  <Celestar> Zr40: HOW did you create that patch?
09:09:16  <Zr40> with vim?
09:09:20  <Tron> Celestar: gantt chart? i heard about that in operations research. what about it?
09:09:27  <Celestar> Zr40: I mean the diff.
09:09:31  <Celestar> Tron: see link above
09:09:38  <Zr40> tortoisesvn
09:09:55  <Celestar> uh huh
09:10:01  <Celestar> tortiose svn diff need a -p3 :S
09:10:52  <Tron> Celestar: the uncertainity is bigger than any other input value, so i think it's pretty pointless to make a schedule
09:11:15  <Celestar> Tron: I think an approximate scheudle would be of help.
09:11:19  <Celestar> schedule*
09:11:31  <Celestar> Zr40: nice. but I have some remarks :)
09:11:41  <Zr40> go ahead :)
09:12:13  <Celestar> Zr40: 1) you should group the groups into "+" and "-" groups, currently you have a - + - arragement.
09:12:27  <Celestar> 2) there is only one "Total" the rest should be "subtotals"
09:12:37  <Celestar> 3) whiler your'e at it, can you increase column size?
09:13:07  <Zr40> re. 2: I didn't modify any strings ;)
09:13:41  <Celestar> I noticed :)
09:15:23  <CIA-5> tron * r4315 /trunk/network_gui.c: Remove MAX_QUERYSTR_LEN, rather use lengthof() the real thing
09:16:07  <Celestar> Tron: it's not really meant to be an exact schedule but more of a 1) what will be in the next release, 2) who does it, 3) dependency information.
09:18:13  <Darkvater> I think doing any gantt chart
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09:18:20  <Darkvater> ok I won't talk for the rest of
09:18:21  <Darkvater> the day
09:18:28  <peter1138> ...
09:19:07  * peter1138 watches ottd fail miserably when given ttdp grf processing
09:19:20  <Tron> Celestar: well, "not exact" is a bit of an understatement. I estimate about three times the time for rewriting bridges than you did - if it works out at all
09:19:48  <Tron> peter1138: ?
09:20:03  <Zr40> Celestar: about the - + -, I subtract at most one time, and it's done at the end
09:20:27  <Darkvater> i am not
09:20:32  <peter1138> Tron: the order of processing actions
09:20:39  <peter1138> well, the stage mask
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09:26:50  <Zr40> Celestar: updated patch
09:28:03  <Zr40> oh, right
09:28:20  <Zr40> Celestar: about the grouping: the bottom one is not always negative
09:28:36  <Celestar> Zr40: I see
09:28:37  <Celestar> Darkvater: ?
09:28:54  <Zr40> selling railroad tracks gets you a positive construction item. same with selling vehicles
09:29:03  <Celestar> ok
09:30:27  <Zr40> I think construction/vehicle items aren't that interesting because they're player controlled. The recurring expenses/income are the main reason for that window, I think, that's why I put them on top
09:30:41  <Celestar> that sounds like a good reason
09:31:21  <Noldo> Zr40: what are you playing with?
09:31:39  <Zr40> but I could place the income group above the expenses group :)
09:31:45  <Zr40> Noldo: reordering the finances window
09:37:07  <CIA-5> celestar * r4316 /trunk/station_cmd.c: -Codechange: finished r4257 (forgot one variable there)
09:46:56  <Zr40> Celestar: updated again. Looks like it's done, aside from the strings ;)
09:54:23  <Zr40> right, forgot to attach the patch
09:56:03  <Celestar> Zr40: lemme check a bit later.
09:56:05  <Celestar> working...
09:56:25  * Zr40 also leaves for a few hours
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10:15:49  <Celestar> I hate this fucking crap :S
10:15:59  <peter1138> me too
10:16:32  <Celestar> "please specify a valid architecture". GIVE A FUCKING OPTION LIST
10:16:59  <Celestar> because "x86_64" is NOT valid.
10:17:04  <Celestar> neither is i386 :S
10:17:13  <ShadowJK> try VAX
10:17:19  <KUDr_wrk> or x64
10:17:25  <Celestar> nope
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10:17:47  <Celestar> found it
10:17:54  <Celestar> if course the arch is "glnxa64"
10:18:01  <Celestar> which is immidiately clear
10:18:01  <ShadowJK> lol
10:18:01  <Celestar> :S
10:18:20  <ShadowJK> OpenGL-NoExecute-Athlon64? :-)
10:18:44  <Celestar> gnu linux possibly :S
10:18:57  * Celestar rants
10:19:00  <ShadowJK> hm :-)
10:19:06  <ShadowJK> what the hell are you using anyway
10:20:25  <Celestar> matlab
10:21:00  <ShadowJK> ah
10:21:13  <ShadowJK> I only ever ran it remotely over X from a machine where it was preinstalled
10:21:33  <Celestar> which is what I'm doing.
10:21:35  <Celestar> preinstalling it.
10:21:39  <Celestar> the 64 bit version
10:21:44  <Celestar> or at least attempting to do so.
10:22:03  <Celestar> damn, can I re-export NFS stuff without restarting the NFS server?
10:22:28  <ShadowJK> maybe
10:23:13  <ShadowJK> exportfs?
10:23:43  <ShadowJK> with the -r option
10:24:02  <ShadowJK> On Linux atleast. Don't know about BSD
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10:34:01  <Sacro> morning all
10:48:48  <Celestar> found it
10:48:51  <Celestar> thanks
10:52:23  <Naksu> http://www.bash.org/?632900 :D
10:58:49  <Celestar> http://www.qdb.us/57407 <= dis one is better :)
10:59:52  <Noldo> that one is good
11:00:58  <Celestar> K Class :)
11:01:03  <Celestar> http://www.nasi.com/hp_K-Class.php
11:01:12  <Celestar> "in built 10Base/T Ethernet"
11:02:04  <Celestar> http://www.qdb.us/57129 <= that one aint bad either.
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11:03:05  <Vornicus> I wonder if he's the guy that lost his server before.
11:03:15  <Celestar> lol
11:03:21  <Celestar> I've lost comps too
11:03:24  <Celestar> in the department
11:03:28  <Celestar> took me 2 weeks to find it.
11:04:57  <Celestar> http://www.qdb.us/57018^^
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11:11:52  <Bjarni> <Celestar>	I've lost comps too <-- I never went that far. All I lost have been CDs/floppy disks
11:12:30  <Vornicus> I have lost computers, but not while they were running.
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11:12:44  <Bjarni> bbl
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11:20:58  <stillunknown> what is the easiest way to solve an overflow in integer calculations(larger tha 2^31)?
11:21:25  <ShadowJK> use long long ;)
11:21:47  <Vornicus> Use a more numerically stable form of the calculation.  Show me?
11:22:30  <ShadowJK> :)
11:22:39  <stillunknown> the calculations are physics realistic acceleration and i'm trying to improve accucasy with fixed point math
11:23:05  <stillunknown> *accuracy
11:23:39  <Vornicus> (in general, overflow can be prevented by using floating point math, or by making sure that all intermediate results are between the inputs and the intended output.)
11:24:10  <stillunknown> floating point is a no go
11:24:38  <stillunknown> peter told speed related calculations may not be floating point
11:24:49  <stillunknown> (multiplayer related)
11:25:06  <Vornicus> oh, you need cross-platform accuracy.
11:25:27  <stillunknown> do long long "blend" with int or do i need to redeclare everything?
11:25:30  <Vornicus> Which means no floating point because every platform picks something different.
11:25:54  <Vornicus> long long can be a pain in the ass; show me the caluclations you need to do, and we can work on making the thing numerically stable.
11:27:04  <stillunknown> return(fxtoi(Mulfx(Divfx(itofx(force),itofx(1000*T_ACCEL_MAGIC_CONSTANT)),itofx(mass))));
11:27:07  <stillunknown> this is one
11:27:33  <stillunknown> the *fx* stuff are macros is fixed point stuff
11:27:37  <Vornicus> okay.
11:28:03  <stillunknown> note by original author:
11:28:04  <stillunknown> ** force * T_ACCEL_MAGIC_CONSTANT may reach 2^31 = 2 147 000 000 if force is larger than (say) a few millions
11:28:07  * Vornicus fiddles with it.
11:28:19  <Vornicus> aha
11:28:25  <stillunknown> return (force / 1000 * T_ACCEL_MAGIC_CONSTANT / mass);
11:28:33  <stillunknown> this was the original
11:29:04  <stillunknown> can't i delare a int64?
11:29:15  <Vornicus> you can, but I'm not sure it's necessary.
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11:29:42  <Vornicus> force / 1000 * t_accel_magic_constant / mass is the same as (t_accel_magic_constant / 1000) * force / mass
11:30:23  <Tron> no, it isn't
11:30:33  <Vornicus> it's close, anyway.
11:30:43  <Tron> set force  to 1 for example
11:30:48  <stillunknown> the problem was that there are several calculations which cause a deviation of a few km/h in max speed
11:30:54  <Tron> (or any value < 1000)
11:30:59  <Tron> the former is always 0 then
11:31:17  <Vornicus> Is this integer arithmetic or float/fixed?
11:31:23  <Vornicus> It looks float/fixed.
11:31:47  <stillunknown> fixed but with converted int's and output is int too
11:32:05  <Vornicus> Okay, then mine is right; tron was assuming integer arithmetic.
11:32:25  <Celestar> Tron: did you have a chance to look at this? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/102
11:33:47  <Tron> mom
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11:34:42  <Tron> the whole IsRoad() thingie is suboptimal
11:35:05  <Celestar> we need a quick fix for this bug
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11:38:07  <stillunknown> @Vornicus: that didn't work, is there anything besides going to long long or int64?
11:41:43  <stillunknown> i see a potential problem, let me try :-)
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11:43:55  <Vornicus> Note that if you're careful you can do multiple different fixed-point precisions.
11:45:12  <stillunknown> i've moved some of the calculations to fixed point variables, to prevent possible overload of the return int
11:45:37  <Celestar> why do we need that big numbers?
11:46:34  <stillunknown> it's the force provided by a train, which gets pretty big quickly
11:47:08  <stillunknown> i'm just making small modifycations to a patch which is not accurate enough
11:48:46  <stillunknown> how "long" is a long?
11:49:15  <stillunknown> (the fixed points are stored in a long, which may be too small)
11:49:20  <Vornicus> long is 32 bits
11:49:21  <peter1138> it needs to be integer
11:49:36  <Vornicus> long long is 64.
11:49:39  <Vornicus> usually.
11:49:48  <ShadowJK> long is 64bits on AMD64
11:50:01  <ShadowJK> 32bits on x68
11:50:07  <Vornicus> x86
11:50:23  <stillunknown> int64, int128,etc, do those have use performance penalties?
11:50:37  <stillunknown> *huge
11:50:52  <ector> int128 does not exist, __int64 isn't horribly slow and is 100% speed on amd64
11:51:12  <ector> long is not 64-bits on windows, only on unix
11:51:23  <Celestar> on AMD64 adding two int64s should be 1 cycle
11:51:25  <ector> you have to use safe typedefs
11:51:40  <ector> if you really need 64bit ints
11:51:48  <Vornicus> I don't know if "huge" applies, but they are considerably slower than int32 calculations on 32-bit processors like Power and x86.
11:51:50  <Celestar> long long is always 64 bits afaik.
11:52:09  <ector> long long isn't standard and doesn't exist on MSVC
11:52:23  <ector> these things are very badly standardized
11:52:31  <Celestar> MSVC.crappiness++;
11:52:32  <ector> so you have to kludge per compiler
11:52:37  <Vornicus> how much slower depends on the architecture and the operation
11:52:41  <stillunknown> int and int64 cooperate well when mixed in calculations?
11:52:47  <Celestar> ERROR: buffer overflow in MSVC.crappiness
11:52:53  <ector> stillunknown, as well as short<->int
11:53:02  <Celestar> stillunknown: why do you need that big variables?
11:53:12  <ector> msvc isn't crappy, long long is a gcc "extension" to the standard
11:53:19  <ector> it doesn't really exist
11:53:27  <Vornicus> What is the magic number we're talking about here?  and what are some typical force and mass numbers?
11:54:09  <stillunknown> ratio between SI and ottd units
11:54:17  <stillunknown> 220 in this case
11:54:26  <Celestar> stillunknown: whats the computation in question again?
11:54:28  <ector> fixed point math should be done with powers of 2 as multipliers since you can use shifts instead of multiplications anyway
11:54:39  <ShadowJK> I thought they had long long in C99
11:54:49  <Celestar> MSVC doesn'T know about C99
11:54:58  <Celestar> for (int i ... ) fails
11:55:20  <stillunknown> @Celestar: acceleration calculations
11:55:20  <Noldo> what? there is bcd fixedpoint math in ode?
11:55:25  <ShadowJK> Yes yes, we know MS doesn't care much about standards :)
11:56:07  * Vornicus fears bcd.
11:56:13  <ector> MSVC's C++ compiler is more standards compliant than GCC, unfortunately the same thing can't be said about it's C compiler :P
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11:57:25  <Celestar> ector: well but you can't always fit whatever you want to do in powers of two.
11:57:41  <Celestar> plus: multiplications are not THAT slow normally.
11:57:57  <Celestar> about 1.4 cycles on the average on a K8 core
11:58:26  <ShadowJK> http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/library/pa-ctypes3/index.html
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12:35:09  <stillunknown> is there any special requirement for declaring an int64?
12:35:33  <Vornicus> not really
12:41:19  <stillunknown> strange, i'm inside a function and the compiler thinks otherwise :-|
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12:46:25  <stillunknown> my mistake ofcource :-)
12:48:05  <stillunknown> can int32 and int64 be mixed in calculations without giving it another thought?
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12:57:40  <Vornicus> The output is usually int64.
12:57:45  <Vornicus> You'll have to fiddle with it.
12:57:57  <Vornicus> to get it to something usual.  But that's not too bad.
12:59:00  <stillunknown> is there anyway to get a function to spiff out an log with the calculations of a specific funtion for debugging purpose?
13:00:32  <Belugas> Tron : ping ?
13:01:56  <Vornicus> stillunknown: printf etc?
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13:06:13  * Brianetta explodes messily
13:08:00  * valhallasw tapes Brianetta back together
13:08:13  <Brianetta> Hmm, leaky still
13:08:37  * stillunknown uses woodfiller to fill the holes
13:08:38  <Brianetta> I have my new tent
13:08:39  * valhallasw adds some glue
13:08:48  *** DaleStan__ is now known as DaleStan
13:08:57  <Brianetta> This tent exceeds my previous tent records in three respects.
13:09:07  <Brianetta> 1. It's the largeswst tent I have ever owned.
13:09:15  <Brianetta> 2. It's the lightest tent I have ever owned.
13:09:29  <Brianetta> 3. It's the most expensive tent I have ever owned.
13:11:47  <valhallasw> interesting
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13:47:07  <Noldo> does openttd have the revision number in the tilebar also on windows?
13:47:34  <Sacro> Noldo: nightlies do
13:48:29  <Noldo> how is it done?
13:48:52  <Darkvater> Noldo: check video/win32_v.c, easy
13:49:07  <Sacro> i think its part of hWnd
13:49:12  <Noldo> Darkvater: thanks
13:49:15  <Tron> Darkvater: i don't think that's his question
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13:49:54  <Tron> the magic is in the Makefile
13:49:56  <glx> Noldo: in Makefile, svnversion is runned to get revision, then rev.c is created according to that value
13:50:47  <glx> hmm runned is not english :)
13:50:57  <Noldo> That magic I found
13:51:05  <Darkvater> ah
13:51:06  <RichK67> glx: in my mingw32, i always get sh.exe svnversion not found, but generally ignore it. should i have this prog somewhere, or is it missing in mingw32?
13:51:24  <glx> RichK67: you need command line client of svn
13:51:39  <RichK67> where do i get it from
13:52:04  <Sacro> glx: runned => ran
13:52:15  <RichK67> i use tortoiseSVN for all my SVN stuff
13:52:26  <glx> Sacro: thanks :)
13:52:40  <Sacro> glx: your welcome :)
13:52:44  <glx> RichK67: http://subversion.tigris.org/
13:53:07  <glx> but maybe tortoise has it too but not in mingw32 path
13:53:07  <RichK67> sacro: glx: in your sentence it is "run",
13:53:40  <RichK67> glx: ty
13:53:48  <Sacro> RichK67: either is legal
13:54:00  <Tron> not really
13:54:07  <Sacro> depends whether your talking in past tense or present
13:54:29  <Tron> if a process is described it's always simple present
13:55:35  <RichK67> sacro: nope... "is ran" is not english... "is run" is.
13:56:54  <Sacro> no, ran = was run
13:57:48  <FauxFaux> I ran into your mum != I was run into your mum.
13:57:53  <RichK67> sacro: look, i spent 11 years as a technical author; his sentence 100% is "svnversion is run to get revision"... not "svnversion is ran to get revision"
13:58:14  <Sacro> not "the revision"?
13:58:37  * Sacro is never going to pass GCSE english :(
13:58:49  <RichK67> yeah, i just didnt correct that bit... technically it would be better to say "svnversion is executed to obtain the revision"
13:59:21  <RichK67> english is a pig.. :)
14:00:03  <orudge> It is "is run", not "is ran"
14:00:08  <orudge> as people have said ;)
14:00:38  <Sacro> orudge: leave me alone! i got thrown out of english at 14 :(
14:01:49  <Tobin> Sacro: Don't worry at lot of native speakers don't write as well as you.
14:01:52  <Tobin> Sadly.
14:03:12  <RichK67> yeah, i once edited a manual that contained a 107 word sentence, with only 2 commas.... if you tried to read it out loud, you ran out of breath around word 65!
14:03:25  <Sacro> nasy
14:03:27  <Sacro> *nasty
14:03:52  <Tobin> Heh.
14:04:12  <RichK67> glx: about svn    do i have to use the command line version to checkout, or can i continue using tortoise?
14:04:24  <FauxFaux> RichK67: You can continue using tortoise.
14:04:51  <RichK67> and svn will use tortoise's checkout?
14:05:04  <RichK67> use/point to/refer to
14:05:50  <glx> if you have .svn directory in your checkout, it should be ok
14:06:38  <RichK67> ok, good, i may try it
14:06:54  <glx> just be sure svnversion is in mingw32 path
14:14:12  <RichK67> ok - but will it cope ok with my 5 separate downloads of trunk? (i keep my developments in separate checkouts)
14:14:46  <glx> it's not a problem
14:15:11  <RichK67> okies
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15:25:53  <Belugas> Tron Ping ?
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15:56:11  <Celestar> ok guys
15:56:12  <Celestar> I'm off
15:56:17  <Celestar> and on the road tomorrow
15:56:20  <Celestar> so c u sunday.
15:56:29  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: C U :)
15:56:53  <Tobin> Night.
15:57:08  <CIA-5> celestar * r4317 /trunk/ (ship_cmd.c station_map.h): -Codechange: More map accessors for ship_cmd. it is now map-access free, but still requires a huge cleanup
15:57:09  <Celestar> night Tobin
15:57:10  <Celestar> :)
15:58:35  <Celestar> I expect you guys to hit 4350 this weekend :P
16:02:45  <TrueLight> RichK67: ping
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16:12:12  <RichK67> pong
16:12:32  <RichK67> Truelight: ping pong in fact ;)
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16:15:37  <MiHaMiX> http://dampf.webmedia.hu/index.php?showgal=15&page=
16:16:02  <MiHaMiX> pictures about old dieselengines from hungary (Ganz-Mavag)
16:21:52  <stillunknown> what is the meaning of >> in c?
16:22:13  <RichK67> bit shift down
16:22:33  <RichK67> ie. 32 >> 3 = 4
16:23:07  <stillunknown> i don't see the logic in that
16:23:43  <RichK67> 32 bitshift to right 3 times... 32 becomes 16 becomes 8 becomes 4
16:24:07  <stillunknown> thank you
16:24:30  <stillunknown> what happens if 33 >> 3?
16:24:41  <stillunknown> because the one is already the first bit
16:24:47  <RichK67> the lower bits are lost
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16:25:38  <RichK67> its often used in OTTD to take the upper nibble of a byte... eg. 255 >> 4 = 15
16:26:12  <stillunknown> int speed = (v->cur_speed * 5 / 9 + 1) >> 1; i saw this and wondered what exactly it did
16:26:23  <RichK67> halves it
16:27:03  <RichK67> so it takes 5/9ths of v->cur_speed, and rounds it up to nearest int
16:27:12  <stillunknown> that i know
16:27:16  <stillunknown> now
16:27:33  <stillunknown> i had seen the >> and it's kind of hard to google for that :-)
16:27:44  <stillunknown> *seen the >> several times already
16:28:28  <RichK67> sorry - my interpretation isnt quite right on that v->cur_speed line... it halves the amount in the bracket tho
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16:33:28  <SimonRC> stillunknown: >> and << are bit shifts
16:33:47  <stillunknown> RichK67 ansered that
16:33:50  <SimonRC> thery return the shift of their left argument by the amount of their right argument
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16:34:01  <SimonRC> oh, wait, so he did
16:34:27  <SimonRC> negative shifts are not permitted
16:35:06  <RichK67> which is silly really since a -ve << is a >> shift
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16:36:01  <stillunknown> i am away now, thanks for everyones patience today :-)
16:40:00  <TrueLight> RichK67: still here? :)
16:42:02  <TrueLight> guess not ;)
16:42:03  <TrueLight> bbl :)
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16:43:38  <|MeusH|> hello
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16:45:28  <RichK67> hi truelight
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16:49:25  <RichK67> truelight: just saw your comment in the mini IN thread - it might work, but im concerned that it will be difficult to keep all the patches working across any major SVN updates
16:49:48  <RichK67> truelight: lots of workload for me i fear
16:50:53  <Sacro> RichK67: you need minions
16:51:07  <RichK67> muhahahaha :)
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16:54:13  * Sacro finds openttd-0.1
16:56:02  <MiHaMiX> lol ;)
17:04:16  <DaleStan> Is there an accessor for _m[tile].m5?
17:04:48  <RichK67> GetTileType(tile) I think
17:06:16  <Belugas> m5 is used for more then one type of tile.  For which one DaleStan?
17:06:42  <DaleStan> Either MP_VOID or MP_CLEAR.
17:08:04  <Belugas> clear_map.h for MP_CLEAR
17:08:13  <DaleStan> GetTileType accesses type_height.
17:08:18  <Belugas> as for void...  DOn't think it is much required ;)
17:08:59  <RichK67> belugas - its used in map creation, which is part of the PNGload thing Dalestan is updating
17:09:43  <RichK67> Dalestan: i used some of the PNGload code in doing some of the basics in TGPerlin. you may find the answers i found in my code
17:09:53  <Belugas> Ho!  Ok.  Good thing
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17:10:51  <Belugas> I think landscape.html should be updated : what to use, where it is etc...
17:11:12  <RichK67> IIRC i had to add some error checking to ensure i didnt try to access SetTileHeight for a MP_VOID tile
17:13:22  <Belugas> For void, the only thing that has been done is on void_map.h -> MakeVoid
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17:14:39  <RichK67> a check was added to SetTileHeight to ensure that VOID tiles werent updated. so i had a nice CTD, even though I later edged the map with MP_VOID before it was going to be used in game
17:16:48  <RichK67> sorry - on settiletype, not tileheight - i havent got my code in front of me ;(
17:19:25  <RichK67> gotta go.. bbl
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17:29:14  * SimonRC eats food
17:29:29  <Sacro> grr im hungry
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18:12:46  <peter1138> hmm, yeah, should SetTileHeight assert if it's a VOID tile?
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18:13:47  <KUDr> peter1138: probably yes
18:14:09  <KUDr> it is map edge, or not?
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18:24:17  <AlexFili[TT-PS1]> hi peeps
18:28:26  *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
18:28:48  <AlexFili[TT-PS1]> anyone there? :p
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18:38:53  * AlexFili[TT-PS1] pokes room
18:40:32  <valhallasw> http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/dlink/ :|
18:40:38  <AlexFili[TT-PS1]> hi there :p
18:41:31  <valhallasw> i'm not here \o/
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19:42:51  <Bjarni> valhallasw: so you are saying that if you are big enough, you can make DDoS attacks in the open and nothing happens about it?
19:43:20  <Bjarni> that seems fair... if you are that big
19:43:25  <Bjarni> for the rest of us....
19:44:01  <valhallasw> well, yeah, pretty much
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19:45:55  <valhallasw> Shall we ask D-link to join lilo's april 1st effort? :P
19:45:55  <BurtyB> d-link suck
19:46:04  <BurtyB> ditto with lilo
19:47:06  * valhallasw slaps BurtyB
19:47:14  <Bjarni> d-link suck lilo? o_O
19:49:07  * BurtyB would like to see D-link being DDoS'd via all of those routers :)
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20:37:48  <izhirahider> Hi. There seems to be a bug with svn r4317, I started a new campaign, new trains keep on being "discovered", but they don't appear in the train list to build. For instance, I'm now in 1975, and the newest train I got on the list is Floss '47' from 1962 (Diesel). Some electric ones showed up as being discovered but they don't appear in the list.
20:38:03  <hylje> elrails?
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20:38:18  <XeryusTC> izhirahider: build a erail depot
20:38:24  <hylje> if true, you need to have electrified depots and lines to get them
20:39:23  <izhirahider> hmmm
20:39:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> you need electric lines to run electric engines ;)
20:41:03  <izhirahider> Do you happen to know where that is built?
20:41:10  <Bjarni> yeah
20:41:15  <izhirahider> or how
20:41:18  <Bjarni> the same way sa monorail
20:41:21  <Bjarni> *as
20:41:22  <XeryusTC> click and hold the build thingy
20:41:32  <XeryusTC> select the second item in the list
20:41:51  <izhirahider> ah, indeed!
20:42:00  *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["kthxbye"]
20:42:12  <izhirahider> this is different from the original ttd, nice :)
20:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can either build new lines, or upgrade the old ones via the "convert rail" button
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20:44:10  <izhirahider> Eddi|zuHause2: where is that convert button?
20:44:24  <XeryusTC> izhirahider: next to the tunnel tool
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20:44:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> pretty far on the right
20:44:48  <XeryusTC> the thing with the big yellow arrow
20:45:09  <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?2142 <-- I got to remember this one :D
20:45:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> right click on a button to see what it does
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20:46:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> rofl :)
20:46:03  <izhirahider> Eddi|zuHause2: Do we have to convert train depots too?
20:46:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
20:46:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that can be done while there are trains inside, i believe
20:48:58  *** |MeusH| [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd
20:49:57  <izhirahider> thanks for the help guys
20:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... fun... (or bug ;)) Celestar: you can downgrade a depot to normal rail while there is an electric engine inside, if you then start the engine, it can leave the depot, despite not being electrified
20:51:29  <|MeusH|> hi
20:51:32  *** |MeusH| is now known as MeusH
20:52:31  <MeusH> DaleStan_ probably I have asked this before, but what's stopping "Importing Heightmaps to OpenTTD" from being merged into the trunk?
20:52:31  <izhirahider> one other thing: I put all .gm files inside gm/ directory for music, it worked the first time, but never again I heard the music. The music jukebox keeps on passing every song continuosly
20:54:28  *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"]
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20:54:44  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
20:54:44  <DaleStan> |MeusH|: I don't know.
20:54:44  *** |MeusH| is now known as MeusH
20:54:54  <MeusH> ok, thanks
20:55:15  *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.stb.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit []
20:57:05  <Bjarni> <Lointamer> oh crap...kids found my vibrators again
20:58:09  <izhirahider> What dependencies are needed to have music in openttd?
20:59:05  <MiHaMiX> bbl, good night
21:00:09  <MeusH> cya MiHaMiX
21:01:33  *** Nubian [n=nubian@217.67.21.194] has joined #openttd
21:01:34  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:01:51  <Belugas_Gone> Good Weekend/night to you all
21:05:58  *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-45-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Leaving"]
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21:08:32  <Bjarni> <pbqd> "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals." -Warning label on a swedish chain saw
21:08:45  <Bjarni> if they didn't say that, I would not even have got the idea :p
21:08:51  <hylje> those swedes..
21:08:52  <Bjarni> I mean the last part
21:09:26  <peter1138> you *would* have the idea of stopping it with your hands?
21:09:47  <Bjarni> hey, I just cut though a 30 cm thick log without any problems, so now I will use my Johnson to stop the chain instead of letting go of the gas handle
21:09:51  <Bjarni> what a bright idea
21:09:59  <Bjarni> actually, that's Darwin at work
21:10:38  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	you *would* have the idea of stopping it with your hands? <-- no, but I could image somebody doing it, but with.... wtf
21:11:09  *** JTanczos [n=Blah@24.229.215.188.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net] has joined #openttd
21:11:22  <Bjarni> also is it advisable to stop the chain with your foot?
21:11:29  <Bjarni> it's not mentioned that you should not do it
21:11:56  <hylje> again, those swedes..
21:13:27  *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.103.84.244] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:13:34  <Bjarni> the good part is that there are rules that says how long it should take the chain to stop if you let go of the gas handle (that's quick for security reasons)
21:14:18  <Bjarni> <Ohtani> one day I will kill ever person on earth who says 'u' instead of 'u'
21:14:18  <Bjarni> <Ohtani> err
21:14:18  <Bjarni> <kaientai> Ohtani: Planning a suicide run?
21:14:42  <hylje> :-)
21:14:50  <Bjarni> I will not fear Ohtani. He will kill himself before trying to kill me
21:15:06  <Bjarni> crap, I just tried to tab complete Ohtani
21:15:08  <Bjarni> :s
21:18:01  <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?5370 <--- such an incident actually got a name, it's called "progress"
21:18:40  <Zr40> http://www.bash.org/?632906
21:18:46  *** Oletimer [i=Oletimer@82-37-1-149.cable.ubr01.wolv.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
21:20:52  <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?15840 <-- left hand offset error?
21:21:15  *** Qrrbrbirlbel [i=Q@p54A7F72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["http://mir.ist-langweilig.de/oh_man.jpg/"]
21:21:54  <Bjarni> Zr40: good one, but I would not try to say more stuff to this guy, or maybe I would since he just entered the road to problems
21:23:39  <Bjarni> http://www.bash.org/?17392 <-- LOL
21:24:04  <Oletimer> can someone suggest how i get ottd running after i downloaded it please.
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21:25:50  <Bjarni> ...
21:26:12  *** Nubian [n=nubian@217.67.21.194] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:26:53  <Bjarni> well, it's a good thing he left
21:27:09  <Bjarni> I would have kicked him for leaving without leaving time for answers
21:27:15  *** Nubian [n=nubian@217.67.21.194] has joined #openttd
21:27:56  <Zr40> you can't kick someone who's not there
21:32:42  <glx> but you still can ban him :)
21:33:34  <MeusH> Your Johnson :
21:33:40  <MeusH> XD you rock
21:36:03  <Bjarni> ...
21:36:20  <Bjarni> you will damage the chain by trying to stop it by dropping rocks on it
21:36:49  <MeusH> or the balls
21:37:08  <MeusH> balls as heavy as rocks...
21:40:36  <Darkvater> so what did I miss?
21:40:58  <MeusH> Johnson and his commrades, two stone balls
21:41:11  <Qball> and a failed attemped to take over hte world
21:41:20  <Qball> nothing new..
21:42:52  <Bjarni> you got rocks that small in Poland?
21:43:35  <TL|Away> http://people.freebsd.org/~phk/dlink/
21:43:44  <TL|Away> We should 'boycot' DLink :)
21:45:26  <Darkvater> gn all :)
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21:48:45  <Brianetta> 0.3.6 released - thread necromancy.
21:49:37  <Bjarni> TL|Away: I already do that
21:50:05  <TL|Away> Bjarni: so do I, but still
21:50:10  <TL|Away> Brianetta: I already have 0.4.7, but okay
21:50:11  <TL|Away> :p
21:50:52  *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:51:27  <Bjarni> somebody should put this on slashdot.org to make people realise this
21:51:45  <Bjarni> somehow I'm not surprised
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21:53:04  <TL|Away> Bjarni: go ahead
21:53:36  <TL|Away> night all
21:55:28  <MeusH> cya
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22:29:39  <JTanczos> Bjarni: i had sent him here from #tycoon because it was such a general question about ottd
22:29:47  <JTanczos> i figured he would stick around longer
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22:38:21  <Born_Acorn> Pikkabird's signals are great. Lets ask him to make semaphores to replace the lanky ones we currently have!
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23:06:29  <Bjarni> goodnight
23:06:33  *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x53588af2.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"]
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23:15:52  *** Richk67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd
23:24:45  <Richk67> hi all
23:25:01  <glx> hi Richk67
23:26:28  <Richk67> gone quiet tonite
23:26:49  <glx> yeah that happens sometime :)
23:27:04  <glx> does svnversion work for you?
23:27:32  <Richk67> dunno - not downloaded it to home computer.. i downloaded earlier at work... what was that url again?
23:29:01  <glx> http://subversion.tigris.org
23:29:11  <glx> but I can't reach it now :(
23:30:02  *** Sionide [n=sphinx@cpc4-hem12-0-0-cust246.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["/quit"]
23:30:49  <Richk67> yeah, no response here too
23:31:11  <Richk67> ive bookmarked it tho - i'll try again sometime this weekend
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23:40:33  <izhirahider> Is there a way to erase just the intersection of a road without eliminating the whole square first?
23:41:16  <izhirahider> i.e, I have a 'T', and I want an 'I' only without erasing everything
23:41:34  <glx> use the "remove" button
23:41:35  <Richk67> you can use the road remove tool (select the road sort you want, then press "R")
23:41:55  <glx> it's the bulldozer
23:42:16  <izhirahider> thanks
23:42:18  <izhirahider> I got it
23:42:23  <Richk67> np
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