Log for #openttd on 9th April 2006:
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02:20:34  <kbrooks> Hi all
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02:23:08  <ThePizzaKing> indeed
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02:55:01  <ThePizzaKing> what, CIA-5's gone :o
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02:55:32  <ThePizzaKing> well, that was cool
02:55:42  <kbrooks> openntd is slow. why.
02:55:50  <kbrooks> openttd is slow. why.
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03:02:06  <Tobin> kbrooks: How is it slow?
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08:40:20  <stillunknown> what is a normal mass for rail freight car?
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08:46:15  <Vornicus> Depends on the kind of freight, the gauge, the country...
08:47:23  <stillunknown> bulk hopper(or similar), late twentieth century
08:48:35  <stillunknown> is 15-20 metric tonnes a reasonable mass? (i'm wondering if i've messed up rail cars weight)
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08:49:18  <Vornicus> Sounds approximately right.
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08:50:34  <stillunknown> then i only have to worry about the buildscreen saying a coal wagon will fit 500 metric tonnes of coal :-)
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08:51:37  <Gamble> hey
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08:56:55  <stillunknown> what's the normal weight for a truck?
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08:57:32  <Gamble> with the thing where the cargo goes on?
08:57:34  <Gamble> or just the cabin?
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08:58:24  <stillunknown> the ttd kind :-)
08:58:36  <stillunknown> where the cargo goes on
08:59:07  <Gamble> the normal weight.. lol i dont what the normal weight is for an ingame truck
08:59:47  <Gamble> look at the weight for like 3 trucks and take the average?
09:00:12  <stillunknown> i've been messing with my game and it's easier to ask then recompile an unmodified version :-)
09:00:36  <Gamble> well i dont know, sorry
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09:03:59  <peter1138> stillunknown: they don't have weight
09:04:53  <stillunknown> peter1138: guess i've been playing with the physics patches too long :-)
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09:08:09  <stillunknown> @peter1138: i'm ironing out the last few bugs of the physics patches (imo) which probably broke on recent trunk
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09:25:46  <michi_cc> is it just me or is flyspray down?
09:29:54  <CIA-5> tron * r4332 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: Turn a table lookup into a ternary operator
09:30:23  <Vornicus> michi: not just you.
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10:05:33  <Zr40> bugs is down?
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10:07:09  <stillunknown> @Zr40: yes
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10:07:44  <MeusH> hi
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10:08:59  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: wiki service seems to be down, could you restart it, please?
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10:09:52  <MeusH> Developers, please take a look at
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10:14:07  <Tron> integrated nightly, stable, good joke
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10:16:01  <Tron> btw: i totally dislike this term, because there are quite some people who think it's some kind of officially supported thing
10:16:47  <MeusH> Tron, I thought IN won't be a good argument, but there are also others
10:16:59  <MeusH> the most important is probably that people want patches
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10:17:15  <MeusH> I fully understand it's time consuming to merge a patch
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10:17:48  <MeusH> but some are being supported for some months, which proves they are bug free
10:17:51  <Tron> people want the moon on a stick and on the other hand flame endlessly if something breaks
10:18:36  <MeusH> Tron: any bug would mean revert. This is the blessing feature of revisions system
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10:19:12  <Tron> do you have the slightest idea how time consuming it is to determine the cause of a bug?
10:19:27  <Tron> uh... which of the N changes we made last week causes this problem...
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10:20:06  <Tron> atm there are quite enough unstable changes in the works
10:20:18  <Tron> electrified rails
10:20:20  <Tron> multistop
10:20:27  <Tron> map accessor functions
10:21:00  <Tron> the first causes desyncs in an yet unknown way
10:21:11  <Tron> the second is just broken per se
10:21:49  <Tron> and the third changed well above 10.000 lines of code, go figure
10:22:12  <MeusH> Hey Tron, who said about merging patches _now_?
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10:22:42  <MeusH> take your time, some people understand developement process more than others
10:22:55  <MeusH> and others, like you, understand it completly
10:23:04  <Tron> oh, btw: from which magic hat do you want to pull 4 active developers?
10:23:05  <MeusH> this is why you are developer, not the "others"
10:23:54  <MeusH> Darkvater, Peter1138, You, Celestar, TrueLight... it's just a matter of you all to agree
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10:24:59  <CIA-5> tron * r4333 /trunk/ai/trolly/pathfinder.c: Revert back to a direct map access in one case until the exact conditions for this piece of code are investigated. The IsRoad() function is causing me headaches...
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10:26:36  <Tron> truelight isn't available at all, Celestar and Darkvater have quite a tight schedule at work
10:27:23  <Tron> i only have time at the weekends which doesn't even leave enough to do the things i want to get done
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10:29:04  <Vornicus> Or you could give trunk access to richk.  :)
10:31:34  <Tobin> Heh.
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10:33:15  <trayrace> hi
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10:36:10  <trayrace> is it possible to run openttd on a pocketpc (windows mobile 2002/2003)
10:38:55  <Vornicus> how wide is the screen?
10:39:52  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4334 /branch/yapf/yapf/ (18 files in 2 dirs): [YAPF] EOL flag changed to Native
10:40:17  <trayrace> 320x240 or 240x320, most pocketpcs allow flipping of screen
10:40:38  <trayrace> high-end devices seem to have a 480x640 (640x480) screen but they are rare
10:42:30  <Tobin> trayrace: There is a third party port made by some company whose name I forget.
10:42:36  <Tobin> trayrace: Search the forums.
10:42:38  <Vornicus> The widgets at the top of the screen are 640 pixels wide total.
10:42:49  <Vornicus> the PSP port had to scrunch the things together to get them all to fit.
10:43:42  <trayrace> Tobin, ok, i'll check it out
10:44:29  <trayrace> Vornicus, do you think it's possible to place the buttons on two rows?
10:45:00  <Vornicus> you can try.
10:45:23  <Vornicus> I think you'd also have to do that to the rail construction toolbar...
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10:46:55  <Vornicus> the 320 mark on the current toolbar is smack dab in the center of the rail constructin button.
10:47:30  <Vornicus> oops.  the trains button.
10:49:07  <trayrace> :)
10:49:55  <Vornicus> ...that is practically unplayably small.
10:52:17  <trayrace> yeah :/
10:52:25  <ThePizzaKing> although it would be cool to have OpenTTD in your pocket all day
10:52:46  <Vornicus> Also they screwed up the UI, they need to at least put separators in the toolbar.
10:59:29  <Vornicus> also I don't see any pictures of the various windows.
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11:11:04  <SimonRC> Sorry about my connection earlier.
11:11:13  <SimonRC> The whole Uni was dropping off the net.
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11:34:50  <TSC> Is the wiki not working at the moment?
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11:55:28  <TL|Away> wiki runs again
11:55:30  <TL|Away> something was hanging
11:55:42  <peter1138> :/
11:55:42  <TL|Away> problem has been reported
11:55:45  <TL|Away> tnx TSC :)
11:56:01  <TSC> Yay, it's working
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12:01:15  <CIA-5> KUDr * r4335 /branch/yapf/ (lang/english.txt settings.c settings_gui.c variables.h): [YAPF] uint8 yapf_type_ships added to Pathes
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12:14:04  <izhirahider> why do quantities appear in english while the rest appears translated? For instance, I always see "50 _tonnes_ <'of grain' in my own language>"
12:14:45  <Vornicus> Because the translation system is incomplete.
12:15:00  <peter1138> because nobody's translated them
12:15:06  <Vornicus> They're working on it, though.
12:15:07  <izhirahider> no, they are translated
12:15:12  <izhirahider> ok then
12:15:33  <izhirahider> the translation is there in lang/*.txt, it just isn't shown in the game
12:15:49  <peter1138> it is not
12:16:37  <peter1138> the relevant strings starts at STR_UNITS_IMPERIAL and ends at STR_UNITS_VOLUME_LONG_SI
12:17:05  <izhirahider> the translation is in STR_TONS, for the tonnes
12:17:12  <peter1138> it is not
12:17:27  <izhirahider> you mean it is not in the game, or it is not used
12:17:51  <izhirahider> > grep toneladas lang/portuguese.txt
12:17:51  <izhirahider> STR_TONS                                                        :toneladas
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12:17:58  <izhirahider> for instance
12:18:09  <izhirahider> but in the game I see "tonnes" instead of "toneladas"
12:18:14  <izhirahider> that's what I meant
12:18:45  <peter1138> that string was never used for cargo display
12:19:08  <SimonRC> Hey, the music files are just re-named MIDI files .'. Standard media players can play them!
12:19:19  <peter1138> the relevant text was in the STR_QUANTITY_* strings
12:19:38  <peter1138> it was STR_QUANTITY_COAL :{COMMA} tonnes of coal, now it is {WEIGHT} of coal
12:20:06  <izhirahider> peter1138: so all translations need to be changed, that's it?
12:20:07  <peter1138> so if you want to translate the STR_UNITS_ strings, that would be grand
12:20:20  <izhirahider> peter1138: because none of the languages i've seen so far use it
12:20:21  <peter1138> updated
12:20:51  <izhirahider> well, a small script could fix that
12:20:51  <peter1138> all languages have been updated to use {WEIGHT} instead of "{COMMA} <word for tonnes>"
12:20:55  <peter1138> no
12:21:00  <peter1138> a script can't translate correctly
12:21:11  <izhirahider> but the translations are already there
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12:21:20  <peter1138> the STR_UNITS_* translations are not there
12:21:36  <izhirahider> you mean put what's in STR_TONS to STR_QUANTITY_TONS
12:21:49  <peter1138> no
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12:21:59  <izhirahider> heh, it's hard to understand, sorry
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12:22:03  <peter1138> look at english.txt and find the STR_UNITS strings
12:22:10  <peter1138> that is what needs to be translated
12:22:49  <izhirahider> so all other translations are outdated except this one?
12:23:08  <peter1138> english.txt is the base language
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12:23:21  <peter1138> so yes
12:23:57  <peter1138> i have not translated them myself as i am not multilingual :)
12:24:01  <izhirahider> so STR_TONS, STR_LITTERS, STR_CRATES, are not used anymore?
12:24:10  <peter1138> it's better to have no translation than an incorrect one
12:24:22  <izhirahider> I agree there
12:24:42  <peter1138> they are used
12:24:59  <peter1138> in *one* string
12:25:18  <peter1138> in the train total capacity 'tab'
12:25:43  <peter1138> (except STR_TONS and STR_LITERS are actually replaced internally with WEIGHT_S and VOLUME_S)
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12:27:25  <izhirahider> I'll take a screenshot
12:27:47  <peter1138> i know it's wrong for non english :)
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12:30:33  <izhirahider> I won't mind fixing it in 6 languages, but I have to know exactly what I'm doing first :)
12:30:40  <izhirahider> just a sec.
12:30:47  <peter1138> all you need to do is translate STR_UINTS_*
12:30:52  <peter1138> errr
12:30:53  <peter1138> UNITS :)
12:32:31  <MeusH[brb]> nice one peter1138 :)
12:33:35  <izhirahider> When STR_UNITS_* don't exist, they are replaced by english default ones?
12:33:41  <peter1138> yes
12:33:55  <peter1138> for any string, if it doesn't exist, the english string is used
12:34:02  <peter1138> hence english is the base language
12:35:14  <izhirahider> is STR_QUANTITY still being used?
12:35:18  <izhirahider> _*
12:35:20  <peter1138> yes
12:35:29  <peter1138> they have already been translated
12:35:38  <peter1138> (because it didn't involve adding text)
12:37:59  <izhirahider> Ok, I'll add those STR_UNITS_* here in and check if it's fixed
12:40:10  <izhirahider> What does *_SI mean?
12:40:16  <peter1138> SI
12:40:23  <izhirahider> The SI part :)
12:40:32  <peter1138> systeme international
12:40:38  <peter1138> (or international system, heH)
12:40:44  <izhirahider> ok
12:41:37  <peter1138> basically metric but with some differences
12:41:48  <peter1138> i.e. speed is metres/second instead of kilometres/hour
12:42:33  <izhirahider> Please, explain me how the plural works. the {P "" s} is supposed to add an 's' to the end of the word if it's more than one. But what if the word for singular is totally different from the one in plural?
12:42:36  <Vornicus> SI simply defines the primary measures - the gram, the meter, the second, the ampere, the kelvin...
12:43:08  <peter1138> Vornicus: yeah, that's what i meant :)
12:43:09  <Kalpa> Vornicus: The kilogram, actually.
12:43:25  <peter1138> izhirahider: you have have more than one letter in the P part
12:43:27  <Kalpa> (though a gram of course is 1/1000th of a kilogram)
12:43:34  <peter1138> {P foo bar}
12:43:36  <Vornicus> And depending on what field you're working in, you choose specific sets of unit sizes.
12:43:50  <peter1138> (some langs can have {P foo bar baz}, but i don't pretend to understand that)
12:43:53  <Vornicus> Chemistry usually uses centimeters and grams, physics usually uses meters and kilograms.
12:44:18  <izhirahider> for instance, gallon -> gallons translated to  galao -> galoes
12:44:25  <izhirahider> what would I put there?
12:44:39  <peter1138> gal{P ao oes}
12:44:43  <glx> gal{P "ao" "oes"}
12:44:51  <Vornicus> Peter1138: that looks like it might be "no foo, 1 bar, 2 baz" or something.
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12:47:04  <peter1138> bah
12:47:13  <peter1138> i need a new toner cartridge
12:47:44  <Kalpa> child{P "" "ren"} ?
12:48:23  <peter1138> i suppose
12:48:59  <glx> or child{P "" ren} (I can't remember if all " are needed :) )
12:49:09  <peter1138> no they're not
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12:49:56  <SimonRC> Where are the song names stored?
12:50:13  <izhirahider> alright
12:50:17  <Kalpa> {P "child" "children"} ?
12:50:31  <glx> valid too
12:50:37  <Kalpa> Roger tha.t
12:50:43  <Kalpa> Hmm, too fast typing
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12:58:10  <izhirahider> I think there might be a bug : even though I have Imperial setting, I still see "litres" instead of "gallons"
12:59:20  <izhirahider> please reproduce it
12:59:32  <peter1138> nope
12:59:42  <peter1138> the original "imperial" setting is... uh ... mixed
13:00:12  <izhirahider> open up an oil well, and open the settings and change it interactively
13:00:35  <peter1138> before this units system is was litres, litres or litres
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13:00:40  <izhirahider> you see SI changes to m^3, metric to litres, but imperial doesn't change to (as supposed) to STR_UNITS_VOLUME_LONG_IMPERIAL
13:00:42  <peter1138> metric / imperial only applied to speed
13:01:13  <izhirahider> why would you need STR_UNITS_VOLUME_LONG_IMPERIAL then :)
13:01:15  <peter1138> so it is kind of a bug, but the behaviour is as it always was
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13:01:22  <peter1138> izhirahider: so i can add it at some point :)
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13:02:46  <izhirahider> I guess you still need to fix the unit change too, the units are different but show exactly the same number
13:02:58  <izhirahider> 108 m^3 != 108 litres
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13:16:12  <Zr40> 1 dm^3 == 1 litre, but only for water
13:16:50  <glx> Zr40: 1dm^3 == 1 litre for all liquids
13:16:56  <Qball> isn't liter specified as 1 dm^3, so it doesn't matter what is in there
13:17:05  <Zr40> oh wait, was confused with weight
13:17:16  <peter1138> -               1000,  0, STR_UNITS_VOLUME_SHORT_SI, STR_UNITS_VOLUME_LONG_SI,
13:17:16  <peter1138> +                  1,  0, STR_UNITS_VOLUME_SHORT_SI, STR_UNITS_VOLUME_LONG_SI,
13:17:28  <peter1138> should do the trick i think?
13:18:23  <peter1138> (1000 litres      = 1 cu. metre)
13:19:51  <Vornicus> Probably
13:20:45  <izhirahider> yes
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13:35:01  <SimonRC> Where are the song names stored?
13:37:14  <izhirahider> SimonRC: _song_names[]
13:37:18  <izhirahider> SimonRC: see strings.c
13:37:42  <izhirahider> line 991
13:37:53  <izhirahider> (revision 4335)
13:40:02  <michi_cc> Any dev here to look at ? (peter1138 maybe?)
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13:44:21  <Sacro> afternoon all
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14:41:11  <Jaraziah> morning all
14:41:16  <Jaraziah> or afternoon >.>
14:42:45  <izhirahider> Is there a difference between the imperial weight and the metric weight, or it's just the name?
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14:43:07  <izhirahider> i.e, what's the difference between "tons" and "tonnes" in english
14:43:27  <peter1138> in british english, tonnes is metric and tons is imperial
14:43:37  <peter1138> they're almost the same value though
14:43:38  <izhirahider> but it's the same measure?
14:43:54  <izhirahider> are tons related to pounds and tonnes to kilograms?
14:43:56  <Vornicus> a ton is 2000 pounds. a metric ton is 1000 kg, or about 2200 pounds.
14:44:02  <peter1138> izhirahider: exactly
14:44:05  <izhirahider> I see
14:44:06  <Vornicus> a long ton is 2200 pounds.
14:44:15  <peter1138> Vornicus: 2000 lbs = short ton = us ton
14:44:22  <peter1138> 2200 lbs = long ton = british ton
14:44:49  <Noldo> that's 10% difference, hardly almost the same
14:44:50  <peter1138> izhirahider: us english calls both just tons, just for fun :)
14:45:06  <izhirahider> peter1138: In the languages I'm translating, too
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14:45:35  <peter1138> Noldo: 10% difference between short and long ton
14:45:47  <peter1138> not between imperial and metric ton
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14:46:36  <izhirahider> I'll assemble a patch later on for the translations
14:46:39  <peter1138> hmm, 2240 lbs
14:47:02  <peter1138> 1 ton is 1.016 tonnes
14:47:08  <peter1138> which is very close, heh
14:48:00  <izhirahider> hmmm, on the english translations, there's : STR_UNITS_WEIGHT_LONG_SI     :{COMMA} kg
14:48:07  <izhirahider> shouldn't it be kilogram instead of kg?
14:48:41  <peter1138> could be
14:48:57  <izhirahider> sh^  :)
14:49:12  <izhirahider> ok
14:49:49  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r4336 /trunk/strings.c: Fix units conversion of volume for SI
14:50:56  <stillunknown> is there a way to use svn diff and also make it look for new files?
14:51:02  <Sacro> peter1138: what happened to your  nightly ukrs server?
14:51:16  <peter1138> stillunknown: svn add file
14:51:31  <peter1138> Sacro: uh, um, i can bring it back :)
14:51:54  <Sacro> peter1138: lol, gtg, mum wants me
14:51:59  <peter1138> boo
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14:59:06  <stillunknown_> is there any way to make an svn diff against a new revision and assuming that the chance is trivial and not needed? (patch changes file that has been changed_
14:59:43  <Noldo> I don't understand what you mean
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14:59:56  <webfreakz> ey
15:00:06  <webfreakz> i get a compiler error:
15:00:18  <stillunknown_> variable = 1; i change it to 3, but a new revision changes it to 2, but i still want it to be 3
15:00:23  <webfreakz> roadveh_cmd.c
15:00:23  <webfreakz> C:$games\#openttd_sources\#ottd_clean\roadveh_cmd.c(1622) : error C2065: 'UINT_MAX' : undeclared identifier
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15:01:00  <webfreakz> could anybody help me out with that? :)
15:01:36  <izhirahider> actually, what I said to STR_UNITS_WEIGHT_LONG_SI applies to STR_UNITS_VOLUME_LONG_SI
15:01:44  <izhirahider> m^3 should be replaced by "cubic meters"
15:01:54  <Noldo> stillunknown_: how is that svn diff problem?
15:01:57  <izhirahider> that's why we have LONG and SHORT
15:02:03  <izhirahider> IMHO
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15:02:37  <stillunknown_> i want to svn to make a diff against a revision which is not the revision i made
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15:03:09  <peter1138> ...
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15:05:27  <glx> stillunknown_: svn diff -r rev
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15:10:11  <stillunknown_> if i do svn checkout on modified sourcecode, will it just apply the diff between the revisions?
15:10:35  <Noldo> stillunknown_: what exactly are you doing?
15:10:36  <peter1138> svn checkout will probably replace it
15:10:39  <peter1138> svn up is what you want
15:11:07  <stillunknown_> @Noldo: i wanted to make a svn diff of some patches because someone asked for them
15:11:24  <stillunknown_> but peter1138 broke my patch 5 minutes after i made it :-)
15:11:33  <webfreakz> i just did a fresh SVN checkout, and got a compiler error in roadveh_cmd.c
15:11:35  <Noldo> stillunknown_: between your working copy and what?
15:12:17  <glx> stillunknown_: just do svn up then svn diff
15:12:31  <webfreakz> i just did a fresh SVN checkout, and got a compiler error in roadveh_cmd.c
15:12:34  <stillunknown_> i made a diff between my working copy and one revision newer than what it was based on
15:12:59  <stillunknown_> but i will do svn up to get the newest revision (unfamiliar with svn)
15:14:57  <webfreakz> i just did a fresh SVN checkout, and got a compiler error in roadveh_cmd.c
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15:17:23  <Vornicus> You don't have to tell us three times.
15:17:25  <Vornicus> What is the problem.
15:18:07  <webfreakz> roadveh_cmd.c
15:18:07  <webfreakz> C:$games\#openttd_sources\#ottd_clean\roadveh_cmd.c(1622) : error C2065: 'UINT_MAX' : undeclared identifier
15:18:15  <webfreakz> that's what MSVC 6 says
15:18:38  <Vornicus> that value should be in limits.h
15:19:07  <webfreakz> i don't know about that
15:19:15  <webfreakz> how could i do that?
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15:23:40  <Vornicus> somewhere in the various includes should be limits.h.
15:23:47  <Jaraziah> maybe try (no shure yet, bin a while that i bin in cpp)
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15:24:02  <Vornicus> If your install of MSVC does not have it, there's something wrong.
15:24:14  <Jaraziah> Ln 1621: uint dist, badness; change to uint dist, badness, minbadness;
15:24:15  <glx> UINT_MAX is used in roadveh_cmd.c since r4259
15:24:26  <webfreakz> yes
15:24:31  <webfreakz> it's been added by Celestar
15:24:43  <Jaraziah> Ln 1622 : uint minbadness = UINT_MAX; change to : minbadness = UINT_MAX;
15:24:48  <webfreakz>
15:24:49  <glx> ask him to fix your problem :)
15:25:27  <glx> Jaraziah: your suggestion will not fix it
15:25:43  <webfreakz> undeclared identifier
15:25:59  <webfreakz> :(
15:26:28  <webfreakz> what should i add to limits.h ?
15:26:32  <Jaraziah> int a identifier and apoint value
15:26:42  <Jaraziah> in same line :P
15:27:06  <webfreakz> could you be more precize? :)
15:28:11  <glx> webfreakz: in my mingw limits.h : #define UINT_MAX	0xffffffff
15:28:58  <webfreakz> does it matter where i add this line in limits.h?
15:30:15  <webfreakz> hmm
15:30:22  <webfreakz> this line is already in limits.h?
15:30:57  <glx> is it a question or a constation ?
15:33:57  <peter1138> editting limits.h? that sounds wrong...
15:34:27  <kbrooks> OK
15:34:33  <kbrooks> i need sdome help.
15:35:40  <kbrooks> ihave a bus  service between 2 cities, and I'm thinking of expanding the stations... but...
15:36:02  <kbrooks> the stations adjoin a certain road
15:36:22  <kbrooks> and i dontt want tohave to bombard other things near the station
15:36:26  <kbrooks> must i?
15:36:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> what?
15:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are no on-road-busstops (yet)
15:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> bus terminals must be built on a free tile
15:38:24  <kbrooks> ===
15:38:29  <kbrooks> _\
15:38:44  <kbrooks> the _\ represents the bus stations
15:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no idea, what you are talking about...
15:39:24  <glx> if you can show us a screenshot it will be easier
15:40:50  <kbrooks> well
15:41:03  <kbrooks> i did bvomb an adjoining house so nm
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15:43:22  * kbrooks curses at this AI
15:43:31  <Vornicus> limits.h should not be changed.
15:43:34  <Vornicus> ever.
15:44:01  <glx> btw limits.h should already have the correct values in it
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15:47:15  <Vornicus> (some systems will pull limits.h 's actual content from other files, so that it's possible to change architectures or systems without having every possible combination of the two represented as a single file.)
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15:48:25  <glx> msdn says UINT_MAX is defined in LIMITS.H
15:50:13  <stillunknown_> webfreakz has MSVC6, maybe it's different for that version
15:50:59  <Vornicus> webfreakz, see if you can open limits.h, and then do a find in it for UINT_MAX
15:53:04  <Vornicus> (uint_max by the way is part of the standard C library.  It pretty much has to be there.)
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15:53:46  <test> hey
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16:00:10  <MeusH[brb]> hello test
16:00:25  <MeusH[brb]> cya
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16:00:49  <test> I'm here for the same problem of yesterday, the bugs I reported seems fixed in the SVN but the nightly build is still vulnerable. do you have info about?
16:01:31  <peter1138> when and what was fixed in svn?
16:02:05  <test> I saw the comment in network_udp.c about the UDP packet which caused the returning of the client to the main menu
16:02:06  <Vornicus> The nightly only gets updated, well, nightly.  I wouldn't worry about it too much.
16:02:43  <test> (I saw the phrase "thanx to test" so I think it's just referred to the bug I reported)
16:03:18  <glx> test: rev of your nightly?
16:04:12  <test> the nightly is that available in this moment on the server while I saw the comment in the SVN version 4291
16:05:03  <test> I have not found references about the other worst garbage problem affecting the server (the sprite error) but I think you have fixed it too
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16:08:22  <test> by watching your fixes I think the problem with UDP was in str_validate, do you have more details about?
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16:14:55  <peter1138> test: have you tested SVN?
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16:15:12  <webfreakz> Vornicus?
16:15:19  <peter1138> if it's still broken in 4326 then it's not fixed
16:15:27  <test> not yet, I was waiting the nightly build because I want to be sure that all the players have the fixed version
16:16:02  <test> anyway now I check if the SVN is fixed
16:16:18  <izhirahider> peter1138: how do I generate a patch here? svn diff > patch.txt ?
16:16:53  <glx> izhirahider: yes but use .patch or .diff instead .txt
16:16:56  <peter1138> yes
16:17:03  <peter1138> not
16:17:05  <peter1138> nod
16:17:06  <peter1138> .diff
16:17:21  <izhirahider> ok
16:20:24  <izhirahider>
16:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... this "integrated nightly" thing by richk has problems loading files...
16:20:37  <izhirahider> I only changed three files for now, to see if what I did is ok
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16:23:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> you might include the affected languages in the filename ;)
16:24:50  <glx> {COMMA} mètre{P " cube" "s cubes"} -> {COMMA} mètre{P "" s} cube{P "" s}
16:24:54  <glx> same for others
16:25:25  <test> I have tested the linux dedicated server and doesn't seem affected by the garbage problem, but the garbage problem could depend by the platform
16:25:52  <izhirahider> glx: ah, I didn't know that syntax, ok, I'll change
16:26:07  <test> I want to test the UDP client problem but at the moment I have problems with my video card so no client
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16:31:15  <izhirahider>
16:31:20  <izhirahider> there
16:32:40  <test> peter, did you tested Openttd after having fixed the bugs I reported?
16:32:40  <glx> {COMMA} gal{P "ão" "ões"} <-- remove double quotes
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16:34:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> is there a particular system behind the position of these strings? (relative to the existing ones)
16:34:39  <jnmbk> celestar: could my Turkish Town name generator patch be merged to svn, if not why?
16:35:57  <Vornicus> If it's a new feature, I'd bug richk first, he's the integrated build guy.
16:36:04  <izhirahider> glx: ok
16:37:22  <izhirahider> glx: reload
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16:38:09  <glx> izhirahider: now it's ok, you just need a dev to accept or reject it
16:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm...
16:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> ===> Compiling language german
16:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> lang/german.txt:2821: Warning: STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT: Param idx
16:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause2>  #0 'POWER' doesn't match with template command 'COMMA'
16:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> lang/german.txt:2821: Warning: STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT: Param idx
16:38:23  <Eddi|zuHause2>  #1 'WEIGHT_S' doesn't match with template command 'COMMA'
16:38:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> english string: STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT                          :{BLACK}Powered Wagons: {GOLD}+{COMMA}hp{BLACK} Weight: {GOLD}+{COMMA}t
16:38:47  <Vornicus> I got that too a week or two ago.  I was told to wait for MiHaMiX.
16:39:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> german string: STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT                          :{BLACK}Angetriebene Waggons: {GOLD}+{POWER}{BLACK} Gewicht: {GOLD}+{WEIGHT_S}
16:39:14  <izhirahider> peter1138: when you can check the patch. Thanks.
16:39:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> something does not look right there
16:39:50  <glx> hmm english seems wrong
16:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> urks...
16:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> changing english.txt recompiles the entire game
16:43:40  <peter1138> heh
16:43:42  <peter1138> most of it
16:44:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> why is english not treated like any other language?
16:44:46  <glx> because english.txt is used to create strings.h
16:45:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> but now the warning is gone ;)
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16:47:12  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: you used an old english.txt ?
16:47:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think so...
16:47:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe one of the patches is wrong...
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16:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> looks like it's the Terragenesis Perlin...
16:49:24  <glx> I asked because current english.txt has no problem
16:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> terragenesisperlin_v3h_501.patch has:
16:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> -STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT                          :{BLACK}Powered Wagons: {GOLD}+{POWER}{BLACK} Weight: {GOLD}+{WEIGHT_S}
16:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> +STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT                          :{BLACK}Powered Wagons: {GOLD}+{COMMA}hp{BLACK} Weight: {GOLD}+{COMMA}t
16:50:21  <glx> and there wasn't a conflict when you applied it?
16:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> not that i remember..
16:50:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> i also see no reason for there being one
16:50:47  <glx> indeed
16:51:01  <glx> so blame richk for that :)
16:51:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i do ;)
16:51:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> mini_in_r4302_150.patch also has it...
16:52:10  <glx> he used his patches to make IN patch :)
16:52:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> so he does not seem to have noticed it
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16:56:56  <stillunknown_> is local branching possible? (where i create a reference other than svn)
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16:58:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> a branch is nothing other than a directory
16:59:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> so as long as your filesystem supports directories, that should be possible :)
16:59:20  <stillunknown_> can i use svn diff against something other than a svn revision?
16:59:25  <Celestar> jnmbk: I'll have a look as soon as I can, but that'll take a bit of time. currently I'm full of work till end of April :(
16:59:49  <Sacro> there arent many non directory supporting filesystems
17:00:03  <jnmbk> ok, thanks.
17:00:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> hence the ":)"
17:01:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown_: you probably need to use the normal "diff" there, but i really do not know
17:01:29  <Celestar> jnmbk: bug me in about 2 weeks please :)
17:02:03  <jnmbk> celestar: I noted that in korganizer :)
17:03:21  <Celestar> jnmbk: I like that product :)
17:03:31  <michi_cc> Celestar: any chance you can look at ? seems to involve elrails
17:04:19  <Celestar> michi_cc: will do.
17:04:44  <michi_cc> thanks, maybe you have more insight into that
17:05:00  <Celestar> michi_cc: have you bugged peter1138 as well?
17:05:20  <michi_cc> tried, but no answer so far
17:06:22  <Celestar> michi_cc: investigating..
17:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have added another comment
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17:10:14  <Sacro> stillunknown_: just do "diff -u (before) (after)
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17:16:49  <test> well I need to go, please peter check that doubt about the bugs
17:16:51  <test> BYEZ
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17:18:10  <Celestar> this is weird
17:18:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> Celestar: while you are here, i have something easy for you: and
17:19:58  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: gimme a couple of minutes, I'm just investigating that bug.
17:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> probably easier, if i put that in one diff...
17:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause2>
17:23:33  <izhirahider>
17:23:37  <izhirahider> while you're at it :)
17:25:03  <Celestar> er guys :P
17:25:05  <Celestar> chill :P
17:25:42  <Celestar> this bugs seems weird
17:25:45  <glx> important is the bug fix, languages can wait :)
17:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> we have a consensus there ;)
17:26:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> this bug was freaking me out...
17:27:23  <Celestar> the rail power is changed somewhere else :P
17:27:26  <michi_cc> Celestar:Ii don't if it helps, but I observed those problems only on rail converted to elrail, but it could be random of course
17:27:33  <Celestar> oh wait. no.
17:27:47  <Celestar> michi_cc: possibly bridges are not converted correctly or something?
17:28:19  <michi_cc> was my guess, but I couldn't spot an obvious error in the code for that
17:28:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> the way i see it, the reproduceable version in my savegame is a problem with bridge over anything that is not an elrail
17:29:54  <michi_cc> I can only say that those lines I quoted on FS are somehow involved, 'cause if I comment them out, everything works as intended
17:31:00  <michi_cc> Celestar: I did have a train that seemed to have lost power near a tunnel, the next bridge was quite far away
17:31:05  <Celestar> uh huh.
17:31:17  <Celestar> (gdb) p GetTileRailType(gp.new_tile, chosen_track)
17:31:17  <Celestar>  = INVALID_RAILTYPE
17:31:26  <Celestar> the problem is apparently somewhere else :)
17:31:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> i suppose GetRailTypeOnBridge(u->tile) does not get the type ON the bridge, but UNDER the bridge
17:31:59  <webfreakz> Celestar:
17:31:59  <webfreakz> Last week you modified some source code using UINT_MAX, but my compiler (MSVC 6) gives an error at that line?
17:32:24  <Celestar> webfreakz: do you not have a limits.h file?
17:32:39  <Celestar> webfreakz: KUDr told me that MSVC6 supports it?
17:33:08  <KUDr> yes
17:33:12  <webfreakz> yes, i do have limits.h
17:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that is probably not the only cause of 0hp
17:34:16  <webfreakz> Celestar: my compiler says:
17:34:16  <webfreakz> C:$games\#openttd_sources\#ottd_clean\roadveh_cmd.c(1622) : error C2065: 'UINT_MAX' : undeclared identifier
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17:34:41  <Celestar> webfreakz: sync with KUDr, he's using MSVC. I don't touch that thing.
17:34:49  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: will it partly is.
17:34:53  <webfreakz> ok :)
17:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> without deeper knowledge of the code, i would look in those map accessors ;)
17:35:22  <webfreakz> KUDr: could you help me with that?
17:35:31  <KUDr> can try
17:35:45  <webfreakz> that would be nice :)
17:35:48  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: rail_cmd.c has not been midified.
17:36:01  <KUDr> webfreakz: PM
17:36:36  <glx> GetRailTypeOnBridge is correct
17:36:43  <Celestar> ?
17:37:08  <glx> it access the right bits so it is not the responsible
17:37:59  <Celestar> yah
17:38:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... it screws up when the tile under the bridge is elrail, but it fails if it is anything else (i tried empty and conventionel rail)
17:38:30  <glx> but it's not an accessor problem :)
17:38:41  <glx> it's somewhere else
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17:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> then it's maybe a storage problem? that the accessed data is wrong in the first place
17:39:52  <Celestar> no the data is correct
17:40:02  <Celestar> (gdb) p /x _m[805649]
17:40:03  <Celestar>  = {type_height = 0x93, m1 = 0x10, m2 = 0x61, m3 = 0x10, m4 = 0x0, m5 = 0xc1, extra = 0x0}
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17:40:15  <Celestar> why does this return INVALID_RAILTYPE?
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17:40:28  <KUDr> webfreakz: PING!
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17:40:41  <webfreakz> KUDr: ping?
17:40:49  <KUDr> where are you?
17:40:53  <webfreakz> here?
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17:40:59  <KUDr> no PM?
17:41:07  <webfreakz> what PM?
17:41:18  <KUDr> webfreakz is away: I'm not here right now
17:41:25  <KUDr> private message
17:41:34  <KUDr> to don't disturb here
17:42:08  <Celestar> looking at the data ..
17:42:10  <Celestar> it IS wrong.
17:42:11  <Celestar> :o
17:42:17  <Celestar> or .. nope wait
17:42:22  * Celestar thinks
17:43:41  <KUDr> webfreakz: try this: /j #VC6
17:43:44  <Celestar> ok.
17:43:48  <Celestar> I have a hunch
17:44:09  <glx> rail_cmd:1802 & 1825 , wrong function used : should be GetRailTileType
17:46:45  <Celestar> glx: WOHA
17:47:42  <michi_cc> might be unrelated, affects waypoints and depots
17:47:43  <glx> but only used in TileLoop_Track, so should not be the cause of this bug
17:48:50  <Celestar> it's a problem nonetheless
17:50:07  <CIA-5> celestar * r4337 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Fix: A problem where GetRailType was called instead of GetRailTileType. Thanks to glx for noticing
17:50:15  <Celestar> thanks a buncho glx
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17:52:04  * stillunknown_ was curious if an unstable branch has ever been considered seriously where every once in a while user could add patches, test, fix the bugs, until it's done, then merge to trunk and start over again
17:53:12  <Celestar> BAH
17:53:27  <Celestar> the stopall commands needs to set vehicle speeds to 0.
17:53:43  <Celestar> stillunknown_: I'm all for it. that's what I did with elrails.
17:54:15  <glx> but it din't prevent bugs :P
17:54:34  <stillunknown_> is restricted svn acces possible so "users" can help?
17:55:13  <webfreakz> guess not...
17:55:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> i am pretty sure that a registered svn user's access can be restricted to certain directories
17:56:32  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: possibly.
17:56:39  <Celestar> ask TL|Away he's the svn boss
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17:57:24  <Zr40> it's possible since svn 1.3
17:57:37  <TL|Away> Zr40: it works sinse ever
17:57:45  <Zr40> only with mod_svn
17:57:45  <TL|Away> we can restrict users in aynway
17:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> m5 bits 2..1: 0 - railway bridge, 1 - road bridge <- why 2 bits for a 0/1 value?
17:57:50  <Zr40> not with svn://
17:57:54  <TL|Away> even the amount of users
17:57:57  <TL|Away> Zr40: yes, it can
17:58:02  <TL|Away> or the amount of bytes to read
17:58:05  <TL|Away> or ... what ever :p
17:58:11  <TL|Away> you can limit reading and writing how ever you like
17:58:16  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: because you could have water bridge too
17:58:18  <TL|Away> pre and post-scripts takes care of that
17:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> the amount of coffee to drink?
17:58:45  <TL|Away> Zr40: I am running access policies sinse the first version, so :p
17:58:49  <Zr40> :)
17:58:56  <Celestar> I think I have the bug.
17:59:16  <TL|Away> Zr40: and the scripts coming with the server version (example scripts) show pretty well how it can be done :)
17:59:25  <stillunknown_> i would like to have a unstable branch if possible, there are several patches which i think would be nice but shouldn't be put directly into trunk
17:59:31  <TL|Away> and mod_svn is just for apache, has little to do with all of this :) Restricting anyone on that base would be sucky sucky :p
17:59:47  <TL|Away> But anyway, a main dev has to request a branch or useradd
17:59:58  <Celestar> michi_cc: it was you :ÖP
18:01:05  <michi_cc> me? impossible ;)
18:01:08  <CIA-5> celestar * r4338 /trunk/train_cmd.c: -Fix (FS#105): Bug introduced in r4290. IsLevelCrossing does NOT check the tile type, it assumes the tile type IS MP_STREET
18:01:19  <stillunknown_> @TL|Away: does any main dev know how to create restricted useraccounts?
18:01:38  <TL|Away> stillunknown_: I know, and they can request it to me ;)
18:01:54  * peter1138 hmms at the physics accel patch
18:01:56  <peter1138> 120 KB...
18:02:02  <Celestar> peter1138:  :))
18:02:21  <michi_cc> peter1138: there's some junk in it, I was going to clean it up a bit
18:02:33  <Sacro> id like to see realistic deceleration
18:02:33  <peter1138> quite a lot :)
18:02:47  <michi_cc> Celestar: so I fixed one bug and made a new bug right away?
18:02:55  <Celestar> Sacro: me too, but it is difficult. it requires a reserving pathfinder.
18:03:04  <Celestar> michi_cc: yeah. but it is fixed now, so no hard feelings :)
18:03:31  <stillunknown_> @TL_Away: consider it requested
18:03:38  <TL|Away> stillunknown_: wrong person :)
18:03:47  <stillunknown_> aha
18:03:48  <TL|Away> I only run the SVN :)
18:03:55  <TL|Away> retired dev ;)
18:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Fixing one bug creates two new ones" (direct corollary from murphys law)
18:04:23  <Zr40> Eddi|zuHause2: so you're saying: "stop fixing bugs!"?
18:04:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't know where you read that from...
18:04:49  <glx> yeah like the npf bug I helped to fix twice because we didn't checked well
18:04:57  <stillunknown_> @Celestar: let me know if and when an unstable branch is possible, or who to bother :-)
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18:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> stillunknown_: you should probably combine your efforts with RichK's integrated nightly
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18:05:48  <michi_cc> Celestar: a comment for that function might be good, or even an assert like in other places, should prevent something like that from happening again
18:06:07  <stillunknown_> nightlies are not in svn, they cannot be a collaborated effort
18:06:31  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
18:06:37  <TL|Away> stillunknown_: nightlies are not in svn?!
18:06:48  <stillunknown_> did i not look?
18:06:53  <TL|Away> what do you mean?
18:07:21  <Celestar> michi_cc: I'm just checking whether I can just include it (the asserT)
18:07:48  <stillunknown_> a svn branch can be changed by many people, can be updated to match trunk
18:07:56  <stillunknown_> a local copy cannot
18:08:16  <TL|Away> you clearly mean an other sort nightly
18:08:29  <TL|Away> in here, when we talk about nightlies,w e mean the nightly compile for all targets that is done every day of the trunk
18:08:31  <peter1138> integrated?
18:08:32  <peter1138> hmm
18:08:35  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r4339 /trunk/newgrf.c: - Comment Change: NewGRF, update comments for units of speed
18:08:49  <peter1138> stillunknown_: breaking the patch, but doing bits slowly...
18:09:17  <peter1138> x10³ lbf
18:09:18  <peter1138> hmm
18:09:25  <TL|Away> but okay, short: SVN can have users restriction, in fact, it already has.
18:09:28  <TL|Away> I am out again :)
18:09:30  <TL|Away> have fun!
18:09:33  <stillunknown_> i mean a branch with experimental features, which is (mostly) maintained by the people who want those features
18:09:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> in this case, i refered to this:
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18:10:01  <stillunknown_> @peter1138: i fixed the comment where i felt was neccesary, much is unchanged code
18:11:25  <stillunknown_> what does svn mean by good and bad?
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18:13:28  <peter1138> uh?
18:13:31  <peter1138> hmm
18:13:34  <peter1138> -···············args[0] = GetInt32(&argv) * units[_opt_ptr->units].w_m >> units[_opt_ptr->units].w_s;
18:13:38  <peter1138> +···············args[0] = GetInt32(&argv) * (units[_opt_ptr->units].w_m) >> units[_opt_ptr->units].w_s;
18:13:44  <peter1138> what're those braces supposed to do ? ;)
18:14:11  <stillunknown_> probably a leftover from some bitswifting which changed at some point
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18:14:19  <peter1138> :)
18:14:21  <stillunknown_> which file?
18:14:28  <peter1138> strings.c
18:14:30  <peter1138> don't worry about
18:14:32  <stillunknown_> what does svn mean by good and bad?
18:14:43  <peter1138> context?
18:14:43  <Zr40> ??
18:14:56  <stillunknown_> good:;
18:14:56  <stillunknown_> 			best_track = i;
18:14:56  <stillunknown_> 			best_bird_dist = fd.best_bird_dist;
18:14:56  <stillunknown_> 			best_track_dist = fd.best_track_dist;
18:14:56  <stillunknown_> 			reverse_best = reverse;
18:14:57  <stillunknown_> bad:;
18:14:59  <stillunknown_> 			if (reverse != 0) break;
18:15:01  <stillunknown_> 			reverse = 2;
18:15:13  <peter1138> that's not svn
18:15:24  <peter1138> that's the code :P
18:15:40  <stillunknown_> it said file updated with a code G
18:15:49  <stillunknown_> which i don't know
18:15:50  <peter1138> G = good update
18:16:01  <peter1138> it won't need to change anything in the file
18:17:23  <Celestar> G == merge
18:17:33  <peter1138> ya
18:17:48  <Celestar> ah ha
18:19:33  <webfreakz> Celestar: my problem is solved!
18:19:41  <webfreakz> Thx to KUDr :0
18:20:05  <Celestar> webfreakz: what was it?
18:20:16  <webfreakz> uhm
18:20:22  <Celestar> ChangeOwnershipOfPlayerItems <= weird functio
18:20:26  <webfreakz> do you want me to give a .diff?
18:20:35  <webfreakz> it's just one simple line...
18:21:48  <peter1138> uhm
18:21:50  <webfreakz> Celestar: ?
18:21:51  <peter1138> why
18:21:56  <peter1138> why is it snowing?
18:22:35  <webfreakz> works
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18:23:51  <stillunknown_> @peter1138: will you keep breaking the patch(if so i will wait a day to fix it)?
18:25:22  <webfreakz> Celestar: are you therE?
18:25:33  <CIA-5> peter1138 * r4340 /trunk/ (lang/english.txt strgen/strgen.c strings.c): Add force {FORCE} to the units system. This is currently unused.
18:25:53  <peter1138> stillunknown_: er, does that answer anythign? ;)
18:26:15  <Celestar> webfreakz: yes I am.
18:26:45  <webfreakz> Celestar: you should switch line 3 and line 4 from this file:
18:27:31  <webfreakz> Celestar: That solved my problem!
18:27:46  <peter1138> stdafx and limits?
18:27:46  <peter1138> hmm
18:27:48  <webfreakz> Celestar: that's what KUDr found out...
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18:32:33  <Celestar> webfreakz: let me check in half an hour, I'm just trying to find a bug.
18:32:55  <Celestar> and need some food.
18:33:03  <webfreakz> Celestar: Thanks :)
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18:33:19  <stillunknown_> is there any main dev opposed to an unstable branch (i will ask richk67), because it will gain openttd more in the end than intergrated nightlies and stuff like that (if you're busy anser later :-) )
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18:35:13  <Vornicus> There isn't an "unstable" branch - there are several one-feature branches, like for yapf.
18:35:18  <Vornicus> And formerly for elrail.
18:35:26  <CIA-5> celestar * r4341 /trunk/vehicle.c: -Fix (FS#101) When a player got bankrupt, slots were not cleared, because vehicles got deleted directly by DeleteVehicle
18:35:48  <Hendikins> Question. What's new since PBS got axed?
18:35:54  * Hendikins hasn't played in that long
18:36:08  <Vornicus> elrail!
18:36:10  <Sacro> Hendikins: elrails
18:36:23  <stillunknown_> @Vornicus: that's why i'm asking, because it would be nice to have
18:36:25  <Vornicus> also, KUDr is working on Yet Another PathFinder but that's not panned out completely yet.
18:36:48  <Celestar> stillunknown_: I have no objections, and neither has peter1138 afaik :)
18:36:50  <Celestar> food time
18:37:04  <Vornicus> He says it's going to be as good as or better than NPF, and faster too.  I'll believe that when I see it.
18:38:36  <peter1138> stillunknown_: speed in 2km/h for road vehicles
18:38:50  <peter1138> 1 unit is 4 x the original? hmm
18:39:19  <peter1138> allowing speeds upto 510 km/h for a vehicle o_O
18:40:01  <webfreakz> ^^,
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18:46:23  <peter1138> hmm
18:48:28  <izhirahider> Is there some documentation flying around about how to create localized town names? I could add a new language there too.
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18:53:09  <kbrooks> if i have various companies competing against me, how can i attack them or at least do something bad against them
18:53:28  *** tokai [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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18:54:19  <webfreakz> compete harder?
18:54:35  <peter1138> exclusive transport rights
18:55:01  <Vornicus> Steal industries out from under them.
18:55:29  <Vornicus> (by getting a better rating than them)
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19:00:05  <Sacro> how on earth can an mp3 skip?
19:00:34  <webfreakz> bad recording?
19:02:02  *** Sacro [i=Ben@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:04:26  <kbrooks> WHERE is a list of cheats?
19:04:42  <Celestar> press ctrl+alt+c
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19:10:10  <Celestar> peter1138: did you happen to have a chance to read my lastvehicle fix?
19:13:08  <Kalpa> Coughcough
19:13:47  <stillunknown_> @peter1138: which piece of the code?
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19:17:11  <stillunknown_> @peter1138: you probably mean the accel = lines, good catch
19:19:50  <peter1138> hmm
19:20:07  <peter1138> Celestar: dunno
19:20:14  <peter1138> bit preoccupied with house hunting. hmm.
19:20:18  <Celestar> ok.
19:20:26  <Celestar> I'm not preoccupied with work.
19:20:34  <Celestar> s/not/now
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19:38:15  <peter1138> work?
19:38:24  <peter1138> but it's sunday, 8:40pm
19:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, it is 21:40 :)
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19:40:42  <peter1138> even worse
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19:52:13  <stillunknown_> peter1138: <-- think i fixed a bug in roadveh accel
19:52:52  <kbrooks> why would a transport company be declared bankrupt?
19:52:55  <kbrooks> PING
19:53:16  <XeryusTC> because it doesn't make profit for a certain time
19:53:47  <XeryusTC> that is, it has a negative amount of money for 6 months in a row
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19:57:24  <Celestar> KUDr: how is progress on YaPF?
19:57:39  <kbrooks> how do i know if a road is town owned?
19:59:15  <Celestar> when the owner is OWNER_TOWN maybe?
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19:59:48  <kbrooks> in the game, Celestar
20:00:02  <kbrooks> i dont want to use the ? button
20:00:23  <Celestar> then you cannot :)*
20:01:17  <glx> kbrooks: why don't you want to use the ? button ???
20:01:25  <KUDr> Celestar: working on first real pf (ships)
20:01:33  <KUDr> nearly works
20:01:40  <KUDr> just found one mistake
20:03:07  <peter1138> heh
20:03:47  <Celestar> KUDr: nice going :)
20:04:52  <Celestar> peter1138: we needa decide when a town can replace a house by a road. the current version makes little sense.
20:05:02  <kbrooks> i wonder how to kill the railroad service ... can i by destroying every rail and every station?
20:05:22  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:07:23  <peter1138> ...
20:14:45  <kbrooks> yay i have no train stations
20:17:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> must i be concerned that the BR 425 should come out in 1998, but i still not have it by 2005? that is 7 years...
20:18:36  <x87> the dbgstr[100] buffer in debug.c(115) is getting quite small...
20:18:39  <Kalpa> Correct landscape?
20:18:45  <Kalpa> And what thing is BR425 anyway
20:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> BR 425 is a passenger train in the DBSetXL
20:20:03  <Kalpa> Ah, I see
20:20:04  <Kalpa> Nevermind me.
20:20:22  <Kalpa> I have absolute no idea of newgrf
20:20:37  <Eddi|zuHause2>
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20:22:07  <Eddi|zuHause2>
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20:24:27  <Celestar> peter1138: I have a really interesting bug for you :)
20:25:00  <peter1138> uh oh :)
20:25:13  <Celestar> load this game
20:25:23  <Celestar> (DCC)
20:25:48  <Celestar> then reverse the train in the middle, and start it. observe the crossings.
20:26:02  <Celestar> then load DBSetXL, and repeat above procedure.
20:26:48  * peter1138 recompiles
20:26:53  <peter1138> back in 5 ;p
20:27:14  <Celestar> (=
20:28:51  <peter1138> right, done
20:29:07  <peter1138> right
20:29:10  <peter1138> game loading
20:29:14  <peter1138> what am i looking for
20:29:42  <Celestar> reverse the train in the middle, and start it. observe the crossings.
20:29:50  <Celestar> then load DBSetXL, and repeat above procedure
20:30:23  <peter1138> right?
20:30:44  <Celestar> it works properly without DBSetXL, when you load it, one crossing will not open.
20:31:05  <peter1138> reason is those wagons are shorter when dbsetxl is loaded
20:31:16  <peter1138> one reason why enabling/disabling grf sets midgame is a bad idea
20:31:56  <Celestar> ah!
20:32:00  <Celestar> we should interdict that
20:32:27  <Celestar> Tron: peter1138 has an adequate explanation for the crossing anomaly
20:32:53  <Celestar> and I am going to bed
20:33:51  <peter1138> with grf saveload code, i'll make it harder to do
20:33:57  <peter1138> not impossible though, as that could be annoying
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20:41:36  <Celestar> good night.
20:43:41  <peter1138>,CFS,MKY,NPL,PRB,STS,WDV,WOS&br=6&prop=-1&min=-1&max=-1&bed=-1&page=1&id=CFS100397
20:43:45  <peter1138> i'll take two!
20:44:02  <kbrooks> how do i do nontop service?
20:44:09  <kbrooks> what is it, anyway?
20:44:12  <kbrooks> nonstop*
20:44:27  <peter1138> what do you think nonstop is?
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20:44:37  <stillunknown_> non-stop will not stop at every station it comes through
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20:45:10  <michi_cc> stillunknown_: Am I seeing things or did you upload a wrong file?
20:45:57  <kbrooks> stillunknown_: er, any usecases for that?
20:46:15  <kbrooks> stillunknown_: any examples? :P
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20:46:43  <glx> kbrooks: yes multi-waypoint
20:47:02  <glx> I mean waypoint with multiples tracks
20:47:16  <Celestar> glx: we have no such thing (yet)
20:47:16  <stillunknown_> @michi_cc: wrong how?
20:47:21  *** eQualizer [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:47:49  <michi_cc> the changes that peter committed are still in, and it's not an svn diff again
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20:47:59  <glx> Celestar: I know, so for that you use a 1 tile long station with "non-stop"
20:48:08  <Celestar> glx: currently yes.
20:48:25  <Celestar> future, possibly not
20:49:16  <stillunknown_> you are right
20:51:40  <stillunknown_> look again
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20:53:40  <michi_cc> yeah, looks better now :)
20:53:52  <stillunknown_> i'm gone
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20:54:33  <stillunknown_> let me know how realistic the roadveh accel is (compare no load vs full load)
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20:55:30  <glx> hi Richk67
20:55:33  <Richk67> hi glx
20:55:52  <glx> your patches have some errors in english.txt
20:56:06  <Richk67> looks like my offer to get a new IN nightly sorted has stirred people into action :)
20:56:30  <Sacro> hmm, new IN
20:56:50  <Richk67> which patches? ive got new versions up-to-date, but not necessarily posted
20:57:46  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: which Richk67 have english.txt problems?
20:58:03  <glx> +patches :)
20:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> at least the Terragenesis Perlin and the Mini IN
20:59:03  <Richk67> what sort of problem? english.txt usually requires a conflict-merge by TortoiseSVN, and then its fine
20:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> [09.04. 18:52] <Eddi|zuHause2> terragenesisperlin_v3h_501.patch has:
20:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> [09.04. 18:52] <Eddi|zuHause2> -STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT                          :{BLACK}Powered Wagons: {GOLD}+{POWER}{BLACK} Weight: {GOLD}+{WEIGHT_S}
20:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> [09.04. 18:52] <Eddi|zuHause2> +STR_PURCHASE_INFO_PWAGPOWER_PWAGWEIGHT                          :{BLACK}Powered Wagons: {GOLD}+{COMMA}hp{BLACK} Weight: {GOLD}+{COMMA}t
21:00:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> this line should not be replaced
21:00:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is the last line of the original english.txt
21:00:59  <Richk67> okies... for some reason it has always insisted on replacing it - it would do this if someone left the carriage return off the last line
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21:02:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> your version is an outdated one
21:02:18  <peter1138> damn those developers making conflicts everywhere ;p
21:04:29  <kbrooks> how do i share orders?
21:05:30  <Richk67> thanks eddi / glx - all patches updated, will release new ones later
21:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> kbrooks: there is a wiki for this kind of question
21:06:32  <kbrooks> Eddi|zuHause2: it doesnt really work. can you help :)
21:06:54  <kbrooks> i have 2 aircrafts
21:07:07  <kbrooks> aircraft #2 goes to 2 airports
21:07:26  <kbrooks> and i want aircraft #1 to go to the same 2 airports
21:07:48  <peter1138> click on "goto"
21:07:55  <peter1138> and then ctrl click on the other plane
21:08:05  <kbrooks> peter1138: OK
21:08:40  <kbrooks> nope, doesnt work
21:09:28  *** Zothar_ [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:09:33  <kbrooks> i selected the last item, "end of orders" and tried that again. no workie
21:09:57  <Richk67> you must CTRL-click the *actual* plane (in depot or in a view window)... if its just in another list (eg. aircraft list) it doesnt work
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21:10:34  <Richk67> it will *always* overwrite the orders, so it doesnt matter what you have selected in the order list
21:11:20  <kbrooks> oh
21:12:03  <Richk67> peter: how do I remove a plane from shared orders without messing up all the other planes sharing orders?
21:12:54  <glx> click on last line of orders ("shared orders...") and press delete
21:13:29  <Richk67> hmm... i thought i tried that... ill have to check if it still works...
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21:18:00  <kbrooks> i need help.
21:18:04  * kbrooks frustrated
21:18:26  <kbrooks> i have 2 aircrafts
21:18:45  <kbrooks> both of them go to 2 destinations, one after the other
21:18:54  <glx> if you follow what we said it should work
21:19:13  <kbrooks> please clarify, in step by step form
21:19:27  <glx> ok set orders for the 1st plane
21:19:35  <Richk67> 1. open view window to airplane 1 & 2
21:19:43  <glx> open order for the second plane
21:19:48  <Richk67> 2. open movement order window for plane 2
21:19:55  <XeryusTC> heya Richk67 :)
21:19:58  <glx> clic on "goto" for the second plane
21:20:11  <glx> ctrl-clic on the first plane
21:20:14  <Richk67> 3. hold CTRL down, and click airplane 1 in its window... the aircraft, not the window
21:20:51  <Richk67> oops... 3. click GOTO, then hold CTRL......
21:21:00  <XeryusTC> Richk67: did you know that your terragenesis perlin levels down all the way when it reaches the edge of a map?
21:21:30  <XeryusTC> even when it is far from touching the edge as is normal with the other map generator
21:21:42  <Richk67> it smoothes the edge out...
21:22:14  <Richk67> can you explain better, i dont entirely follow
21:22:37  <XeryusTC> i will put some screenshots online :)
21:22:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> Richk67: did you know, that your Mini IN cannot load current savegames?
21:22:47  <Richk67> okies
21:23:18  <Richk67> eddi - thank whoever decided that config would be saved as packed bits in the savegames for that one
21:23:22  <kbrooks> glx: i followed exactly all these steps.
21:23:37  <glx> and?
21:23:38  <kbrooks> glx: doesnt work
21:24:38  <Richk67> eddi: as it changes a lot of config parameters, any savegame that doesnt 100% match the pattern of the config, will not load. its a royal pain-in-the-butt
21:25:23  <XeryusTC> Richk67: see notice
21:25:45  <glx> kbrooks: it works for me and for others
21:25:58  <Richk67> xeryus: where?
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21:26:20  <XeryusTC> Richk67: see the screenies :)
21:26:59  <kbrooks> glx: let me try again
21:26:59  <Richk67> where... nothing showing on forums? which forum/post?
21:27:09  <kbrooks> glx: i clicked on GOTO exactly
21:27:26  <glx> then ctrl-clic on the plane
21:27:34  <XeryusTC> Richk67: see pm in your irc client
21:27:38  <kbrooks> glx: i did, doesnt work
21:27:58  <Richk67> i have no idea how to access it
21:28:13  <XeryusTC> hmm
21:28:28  <kbrooks> ahhhhhhhhhhhhh
21:28:31  <kbrooks> im stupid
21:28:32  <XeryusTC> <- only Richk67 click please, my bandwidth is very limited
21:28:50  <kbrooks> gl: i clicked on aircraft 2, i think
21:28:54  <kbrooks> wait.
21:28:59  <kbrooks> glx:
21:29:50  <kbrooks> glx: still doesnt work. i indeed clicked on aircraft 1 with CTRL
21:29:59  <Richk67> xeryus - its working exactly as planned
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21:30:07  <kbrooks> why oh why doesnt it work for me?
21:30:23  <Richk67> are you paused?
21:30:30  <kbrooks> no
21:30:34  <Richk67> oh
21:30:44  <XeryusTC> nope
21:30:52  <XeryusTC> but it looks a bit weird
21:31:28  <glx> kbrooks: you clicked on aircraft1 in it's window or in plane list?
21:31:51  <kbrooks> glx: in its window
21:31:54  <Richk67> xeryus - if i didnt do that edged coastline, you would have an absolutely straight edge running right along the map edge
21:32:08  * peter1138 plays with train physics accel
21:32:27  <Richk67> it would look very very dull - like a slice had been taken out of the hillside (as in current OTTD)
21:32:35  <glx> kbrooks: aircraft 1 is running or in a depot?
21:32:40  <Richk67> at least with this, its slightly wiggly
21:33:00  <XeryusTC> i suspected that, but isn't there a way that you could stretch/squece it?
21:33:34  <kbrooks> glx: stopped
21:33:42  <Richk67> well, its fairly random, and its hard to bias it to be less
21:34:02  <Richk67> what are your map dimensions?
21:34:04  <kbrooks> glx: aircraft 2 doesnt have any orders
21:34:12  <glx> kbrooks: so in aircraft 1 window you just see the depot right?
21:34:26  <kbrooks> glx: aircraft 2 too is stopped (in depot)
21:34:48  <kbrooks> glx: aircraft 1 is stopped before it flies away
21:34:51  <XeryusTC> 1024x128, seed was 65523 iirc
21:34:58  <kbrooks> on the runway
21:35:20  <Richk67> okies, ill have a quick look, but i think its working as planned
21:35:32  <XeryusTC> terrain type: hilly, sea level: very low, smoothness very smooth
21:37:03  <kbrooks> glx: ANY IDEAS?
21:37:16  <glx> no, it works for me
21:40:15  <kbrooks> "To prevent easy mistakes you can only copy orders to a vehicle that doesn't already have orders."
21:40:19  <kbrooks> glx:
21:40:27  <kbrooks> aircraft 1 has orders...
21:40:50  <glx> yes and you want to copy his orders to aircraft2
21:41:10  <Richk67> ok xeryus - i can reproduce the terrain... just what is "wrong"?  or is it just too different to OTTD?
21:41:29  <SimonRC> hmm, I have a UFO
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21:41:51  <SimonRC> What do I do with it?
21:42:01  <XeryusTC> Richk67: it looks a bit weird that it forms a "cliff" on a very smooth terrain.
21:42:05  <Richk67> glx: you can *always* CTRL-click share orders... its the exception to the copy orders rule
21:42:38  <SimonRC> Hey!  It blew up!
21:42:48  <glx> airforce raid :)
21:43:13  <kbrooks> glx: yes
21:43:32  <kbrooks> Richk67: i god damning want this to work :'(
21:43:57  <glx> explain us what you do exactly
21:44:07  <Richk67> xeryus - its a bit unavoidable - if you change the terrain to 1024x256, that cliff is in the middle of a lengthy raised area. i cut into it to create cliffs, so that you dont get the ruler-straight map edge of original OTTD
21:44:20  <kbrooks> glx: shall i save the game and reopen?
21:44:35  <glx> not needed I think
21:45:05  <kbrooks> glx: i did that. now to get the orders shared.
21:45:07  <XeryusTC> Richk67: you said that before, and i understand it. but my suggestion is to stretch/squeece the map so it fits
21:45:23  <XeryusTC> kbrooks: and
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21:46:16  <Richk67> perlin generation doesnt work that way... there is no "edge" to the map - effectively, you could continue terrain 65523 off to infinity
21:46:39  <Richk67> so at some point, you have to say "that will do"
21:46:49  <Richk67> and clip the map
21:47:36  <XeryusTC> ok
21:48:13  <Richk67> i can perhaps reduce the size of the edge boundary, but that means that on some other maps the interesting variations will be lost
21:48:49  <Richk67> long/thin narrow maps arent the best this algorithm can do...
21:49:21  <XeryusTC> i see :)
21:51:11  <SimonRC> Aaaaand this steel mill has decided to accept passengers.
21:51:58  <XeryusTC> SimonRC: maybe it needs more employees :P
21:53:48  <kbrooks> can I land at some other airport that a company owns
21:54:16  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bed
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21:59:17  <kbrooks> how do i build a vehicler depot? I forget.
21:59:35  <kbrooks> ah yes
21:59:42  <kbrooks> road contrustion
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22:04:49  <kbrooks> why would I want to "clone" a vehicle?
22:06:41  *** tokai|noir [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
22:06:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> a) lazyness to search for the right vehicle
22:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> b) to copy/share the orders
22:07:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> c) to avoid refit costs
22:07:22  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
22:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> (while i think c is rather a bug)
22:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> it is probably most useful for trains...
22:14:24  <kbrooks> i like that Eddi|zuHause2
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22:20:57  <SimonRC> Darnit, the second UFO landed in teh same place as the first!
22:20:59  <SimonRC> What's the significance of going through a waypoint "Non-Stop"?
22:21:27  <glx> a waypoint is already non-stop
22:21:29  <Richk67> waypoints - none...
22:22:38  <SimonRC> Okay, another bug for someone who has an account to report: The "non-stop" button should be disabled for waypoint in order lists, as it means nothing.
22:22:42  * SimonRC goes to bed
22:23:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> what? non-stop means you do not stop anywhere ELSE
22:23:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> like a station you pass through
22:24:01  <glx> he means for real waypoint
22:24:08  <glx> I guess
22:24:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> train -- station -- waypoint -- goal
22:24:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> when the train has the option "goto waypoint"
22:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> it stops at the station
22:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> when the train has the option "goto waypoint non-stop"
22:25:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not stop at the station
22:25:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> it will never stop at the waypoint, only pass through
22:26:20  <glx> it stop at the station
22:26:23  <SimonRC> ah, I though "Non-stop" meant "go through and don't stop there" rather than "go to without stopping on the way".
22:26:26  <SimonRC> silly me
22:26:28  * SimonRC goes to bed
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22:27:47  <kbrooks> i have 4 vehicles.
22:28:39  <kbrooks> all of them go to 2 towns. so how do i know if one town needs a vehicle on full load?
22:29:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> SimonRC: that is the "TTDPatch compatible non-stop" ... i hate that...
22:30:13  <kbrooks> all of them go to 2 towns. so how do i know if one town needs a vehicle on full load?
22:31:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> am i the only person that does not understand this question?
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22:31:36  <glx> hmmm I think he wants to know when use full load
22:31:45  <kbrooks> glx: correct
22:33:01  <glx> personally I always use full load for everything except passengers
22:33:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> full load for goods, no full load for passengers/mail
22:33:43  <glx> mail wagon in my passenger trains :)
22:34:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> i usually don't do mail
22:34:34  <glx> full load could be problematic for valuables too
22:34:46  <kbrooks> um
22:35:08  <kbrooks> why is full load bad w/ passengers if the passengers are like... filling up?
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22:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> for passengers, you rather want to deliver them fast...
22:35:36  *** DjViper [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:35:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> the longer you wait, the less money you get
22:35:55  <Richk67> someone did an analysis - you lose more waiting for a full pass load, than you do going with what is there
22:36:03  *** DjViper- is now known as DjViper
22:36:03  <glx> and while you wait for loading at one stop, the others stop is overfulled
22:36:23  <glx> so bad ratings ...
22:37:42  <Richk67> it *really* helps on airports to grab and go - as it stops full loads of passengers being prevented from disembarking because a terminal is blocked with a "full load" aircraft
22:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> Richk67 is "the airportguy" ;)
22:39:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> i rarely do airports...
22:39:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> when cities are small, they do not give enough revenue
22:39:40  <glx> I once refited concorde to carry coal
22:39:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> and when they get bigger, you can't place them anywhere
22:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> and feeder-services will not work until we get passenger-destinations
22:40:34  <Richk67> lol - and the IN guy, the terrain guy, the scenario guy, the "oh-no-not-him-again" guy ;)
22:40:43  <kbrooks> how do I USE the replace vehicles interace
22:41:03  <kbrooks> i selected the two  vehicles
22:41:08  <kbrooks> and now what?
22:41:14  <glx> press replace now
22:41:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> click in left table on the old vehicle, click on right table on the new vehicle
22:41:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> click activate replacement
22:41:33  <glx> and wait
22:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> wait for vehicle to check into the depot
22:41:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> or send it manually
22:41:55  <Richk67> you should be charged for its replacement once it stops in depot
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22:42:03  <glx> can take a long time if service and breakdowns are disabled
22:42:07  <Richk67> if you have enough money
22:44:45  <kbrooks> heh
22:44:59  <kbrooks> i love these cool features in openttd
22:45:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate that there are features that are NOT in OpenTTD ;)
22:45:57  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: examples?
22:46:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> new stations
22:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> new cargo
22:46:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> the aforementioned passenger destinations
22:46:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> PBS
22:46:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> livery refit
22:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> i probably find more, when i dig deeper ;)
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22:47:14  <glx> newgrf is still in development
22:47:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah... custom bridgeheads
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22:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> bridges over arbitrary tiles
22:47:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> diagonal bridges/tunnels
22:48:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> underground rail
22:48:06  <glx> ok ok
22:48:09  <glx> :P
22:48:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> elevated rail
22:48:42  <glx> tramways
22:48:51  <TSC> Rotating the map
22:48:51  <kbrooks> i really need to do just one more city for this bus service
22:49:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> busses are best used inner-citty
22:49:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> -t
22:49:40  <glx> then unload in a train station
22:50:03  <kbrooks> heh
22:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> not unload, transfer ;)
22:50:17  <kbrooks> because of the distance?
22:50:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> transfer&unload, to be exact
22:51:07  <glx> kbrooks:  because the more passengers you take regulary, the faster the town grows
22:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> trains are a lot faster, so better for long distance travel
22:51:46  <glx> and trains have better capacities too
22:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> does anyone know a decent roadvehicle set that starts in 1920?
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22:52:19  <izhirahider> the problem is the wider the city spreads, the less space you have to build train stations, so think ahead
22:53:03  <glx> you can put train station outside the city with a feeder bus
22:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem with train stations is usually not the station itself, but the rails leading to it
22:54:12  <Richk67> eddi: pb_hovs_bus.grf
22:54:36  <glx> it's ukrs, doesn't it?
22:55:13  <kbrooks> what is a feeder bus? :)
22:55:17  <Richk67> it works well with it, but it is separate
22:55:35  <glx> I like the 'Ford T bus'
22:57:01  <Richk67> i like the good mix of single and double-decker busses
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23:01:43  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%209.%20Mai%202005.png <- my station inmidst of a city, with bus-feeder service
23:03:11  <glx> one good thing with OpenTTD is you can have dbsetxl and ukrs working together
23:03:13  <kbrooks> ahhhh now i have a feeder service :P
23:04:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'll try this set...
23:04:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> i really hate the size of those long vehicles
23:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: how do you mean that?
23:05:23  <kbrooks> great :)
23:09:10  <glx> hmm indeed there's some problems
23:10:36  <kbrooks> question
23:10:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> answer
23:10:46  <glx> again !
23:10:53  <glx> :P
23:11:36  <kbrooks> i have 2 feeder buses for an airport. how do i take advantage of it?
23:11:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> reminds me of:
23:12:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> kbrooks: make sure, the airport accepts passengers and mail (for the incoming planes)
23:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> set the busses to transfer&unload at the airport
23:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> the planes will then grab the passengers brought by the busses
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23:15:22  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: you have a destroy bus zone :)
23:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> glx: usually, the busses should not go there...
23:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> and if they do, they deserve it ;)
23:16:41  <glx> only AI buses should go there :P
23:17:48  <glx> it's more efficient if AI has a roadstop near these places
23:19:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> error: null-pointer dereferencing at "AI"
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23:21:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> germany is a weird country... there are railroad tracks that got electrified 3 times :p
23:21:55  <glx> ha?
23:22:22  <kbrooks> Eddi|zuHause2: 3 times? eh?
23:23:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> once in the phase between 1911 and 1914... the electrification got removed at the start of the first worldwar (for use with other war relevant things probably)
23:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> then again 1922 till the 1940s
23:23:42  <glx> then same cause, same effects?
23:23:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> then the electrification got torn down by the russians, for reparation
23:24:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> then it got electified again starting 1955
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23:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is, not counting the partial destruction 1944/45 and provisory rebuild in 1945
23:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> that would be 4 times ;)
23:27:34  <Richk67> hi dalestan - is new pngload ready to put into IN?
23:29:25  <DaleStan> Richk67: It should be. I don't have any malicious PNGs to test, but I didn't touch that code, that shouldn't be an issue.
23:29:44  <Richk67> okies - ill try to integrate it then
23:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> what does pngload do?
23:34:13  <Richk67> pngload lets you import a png terrain bump map - its how i made the Africa map
23:42:35  <kbrooks> i noticed an UFO. what does it do?
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23:43:10  <glx> it blows up
23:43:29  <Richk67> early ones land and kill busses, late ones land on railway tracks and get blown up
23:43:54  <glx> and can destroy your beautiful junctions
23:43:59  <Richk67> if you have no railways late on, the ufo lands on water, and then gets blown up ;)
23:44:14  <kbrooks> whats a early ufo?
23:44:23  <kbrooks> im in 2012
23:44:43  <Richk67> early ones are really small (smaller than a bus)
23:44:53  <kbrooks> and late ones?
23:45:06  <glx> big and destroy pas airforce
23:45:08  <Richk67> big ones looking like from UFO:Enemy Unknown
23:45:40  <kbrooks> Richk67: they're round & have white on top and a visible shadow on the ground
23:46:05  <glx> looks like big ufo
23:46:34  <kbrooks> ok.  i dont have a railway
23:46:50  <kbrooks> so i dontt have to worry about it?
23:48:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> watch and wait ;)
23:50:23  <kbrooks> Eddi|zuHause2: the plane left now XD
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