Log for #openttd on 12th April 2006:
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00:19:37  <CIA-3> glx * r4372 /branch/yapf/Makefile: [YAPF] - Fixed MINGW compilation and simplified unittest compilation
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05:19:25  <CIA-3> tron * r4373 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c:
05:19:25  <CIA-3> Rewrite GetSlopeZ_TunnelBridge() and slightly change its behavior:
05:19:25  <CIA-3> - Report the correct z alongside the ramp when a foundation is present
05:19:25  <CIA-3> - Always report the z under the bridge for a bridge middle part, except if the z hack is used
05:19:25  <CIA-3> This should fix some weird behavior of the tile selector near bridges
05:26:38  <CIA-3> tron * r4374 /trunk/ (road.h road_map.h tunnelbridge_cmd.c): Never directly commit something you prepared the evening before, mysteriously it will break in the morning, fix r4373
05:26:42  <Tron> FSCK
05:27:04  <Tron> those two files were not intended
05:27:54  <TSC> Oops (:
05:28:05  * peter1138 suggests waking up again :)
05:28:08  <TSC> Looks like you'll need another embarrassing log message
05:29:10  <Tron> no, the change is correct, i'll leave it as it is
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05:47:23  <peter1138> hmm
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05:56:34  <stillunknown> @peter1138: i will give you a new roadveh accel patch, it was still a bit wrong (found out when i seperated them)
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06:50:15  <Naksu> haha
06:50:17  <Naksu> kitten auth
06:50:22  <Naksu> why didn't i think of that?
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06:53:04  <TSC> That's brilliant
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07:08:28  <peter1138>  hmm
07:08:39  <peter1138> very tired suddenly :/
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07:16:20  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: suddenly? ;-0
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07:28:07  <Celestar> yo
07:29:46  <Celestar> bah
07:30:03  <Celestar> I wish C understood 42 <= foo <= 1701
07:31:03  <peter1138> heh
07:31:08  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: yes
07:33:04  <Celestar> peter1138: when RichK joins, tell him I'm working on the station sort thingy.
07:47:07  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: drink a coffee or a tea :)
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07:50:27  <Darkvater> 22:45 < glx> Darkvater: ping < ping-reply
07:51:07  <Celestar> Tron: emergency-ping
07:51:33  <KUDr> morning guys
07:51:57  <Celestar> Z computation under bridges is faulty.
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07:53:24  <Celestar> VERY faulty
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07:55:24  <Darkvater> peter1138: did you do anything about the minimap-zoom? Or the state it is in
07:55:28  <Darkvater> morning @all btw
07:55:34  <Celestar> peter1138: he did :)
07:56:00  <Celestar> Darkvater: he did :)
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07:56:35  <Celestar> <= PLEASE LET ME KILL HIM
07:57:13  <peter1138> heh
07:57:21  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: lol :)
07:57:23  <peter1138> which bit of z computation is faulty?
07:57:37  <peter1138> admittedly, i've only tested it with trains
07:58:11  <Celestar> peter1138: DCC
07:58:26  <Darkvater> Celestar: wakie, wakie ;)
07:58:39  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: you have 2 days left :P
07:58:42  <peter1138> crap
07:58:44  <peter1138> 9:02
07:58:46  <peter1138> i should be at work :P
07:59:20  <peter1138> oh, 8:59... but still...
07:59:28  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: yes, I know
08:00:33  <Celestar> peter1138: comments?
08:03:40  <Celestar> Tron:
08:04:02  <Celestar> ok
08:04:09  * Celestar goes back to cleaning up the signal code.
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08:06:14  <CIA-3> celestar * r4375 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Codechange: Move the signal drawing bit to an own function and rename DrawSignalHelper to DrawSingleSignal
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08:17:02  <peter1138> Celestar: none, i went to work
08:17:20  <Celestar> peter1138: I see
08:17:34  <Celestar> use tracker item 116
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08:20:47  <peter1138>
08:20:49  <peter1138> damn
08:20:54  <peter1138> i need to finish it off :)
08:21:18  <Naksu> what?
08:21:19  <Celestar> that is NOT ottd :)
08:21:24  <peter1138> clearly not
08:21:26  <Naksu> you can build railroad over tunnels now?
08:21:28  <Celestar> the pylons are drawn all fucked up.
08:22:23  <Celestar> peter1138: finish what of?
08:22:25  <Celestar> f
08:22:29  <peter1138> newstations
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08:22:47  <Celestar> The Patch has rails over tunnel entrances? :o
08:23:19  <Darkvater> Celestar: you can see just from the title-bar's extended brown thingie it's not ottd
08:23:28  <Celestar> Darkvater: oh that too
08:23:38  <Celestar> Darkvater: notice the bottom right hand corner.
08:23:51  <Celestar> er
08:23:56  * Celestar looks at his hands
08:24:02  <Celestar> bottom left hand corner
08:24:25  <Darkvater> what am I seeing?
08:24:34  <Celestar> note the tunnel entrances.
08:24:48  <peter1138> oskar's tunnel hack
08:24:53  <peter1138> it's ugly
08:25:07  <Darkvater> oh that, the rail floating in mid-ari?
08:25:14  <Darkvater> funky
08:25:28  <Celestar> peter1138: all it needs is a proper sprite
08:25:33  <peter1138> yeah
08:25:54  <Celestar> we really need to get these bridge thingies working.
08:26:25  <peter1138> branch!
08:26:27  <peter1138> hmm
08:26:35  <Celestar> peter1138: first we needa finish map accessors.
08:26:43  <peter1138> i fixed triggers in my new resolver... i'd missed a ~ o_O
08:26:54  <Celestar> hehe
08:26:58  <peter1138> so that works now, and fixes a few bugs
08:27:01  <Celestar> now much of newstats or working at the moment?
08:27:06  <peter1138> (ukrs standard five is the right colour)
08:27:33  <peter1138> not much at all
08:27:46  <peter1138> i need to implement varactions and callbacks for stations
08:28:05  <CIA-3> celestar * r4376 /trunk/ (npf.c rail.h rail_cmd.c): -Codechange Renamed GetSignalState to GetSignalStateByTrackdir
08:28:07  <peter1138> (already written once, just need transferring)
08:29:42  <peter1138>
08:29:42  <peter1138> heh
08:29:44  <peter1138> "longmap"
08:30:49  <MiHaMiX> Any opinion on this: (see the idea at the bottom-part):
08:32:10  <Darkvater> you call THAT a longmap?
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08:32:28  <Darkvater> I guess they never heard of a 64*2048 map then ^^
08:33:05  <Celestar> what does this have to do with Germany
08:33:07  <Celestar> apart from the names?
08:33:55  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: good idea, but undoable in current code
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08:34:28  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: really? :-(
08:34:35  <Celestar> he wants what?
08:34:50  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: shall we have different industry buildings for the same industry type based on the production rate? I mean, a power station with just a few wagons of coal monthly should be much smaller than a bigger one with hundreds of wagons of coals monthly. And so on, for raw-material producing industries as well, I mean, coal-mines, farms, sawmills, etc..
08:35:16  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: just like the company HQ
08:35:21  <Celestar> I think not that would be TOO difficult
08:35:31  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: well, it is doable if it is coded. You can always set tile's to industry type, etc.
08:35:32  <Celestar> but we first need to de-map the code.
08:35:34  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: but?
08:35:38  <Darkvater> but it needs serious work
08:36:24  <peter1138> if we implement newgrf industries that'll allow different graphics based on ... other things
08:36:40  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: I haven't told it would be piece of cake :)
08:38:33  <Celestar> BAH
08:38:47  <Celestar> the signal code is ugly
08:39:23  <peter1138> clean up the m23 bollocks!
08:39:30  <peter1138> that so doesn't need to be there
08:41:00  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm about to.
08:43:28  <peter1138> now, how do i get this 85kb patch down to reasonable chunks...
08:44:47  <Celestar> peter1138: how much would be working then ? :)
08:45:18  <peter1138> there wouldn't be much noticable change
08:45:25  <peter1138> except less warnings on some newgrfs
08:45:33  <Celestar> ok :P
08:45:49  <Celestar> a 85kB patch for reducing warnings? or is it a rewrite of something?
08:47:33  <Darkvater> Celestar: it's if (warning) {do nothing; return;}
08:48:09  <peter1138> hehe
08:48:11  <peter1138> it's a rewrite
08:50:55  <peter1138> hmm, 67KB
08:51:09  <peter1138> load of vcproj changes o_O
08:51:17  <Celestar> peter1138: what enables us this rewrite?
08:54:39  <stillunknown> does svn use anything but <<<<< and >>>>> for listing conflicts?
08:54:58  <stillunknown> (i resolved the conflict but it still claims it exists)
08:56:26  <Rubidium> stillunknown: you have to tell svn that the conflict is resolved (svn resolved <filename>)
08:56:44  <Celestar> stillunknown: svn resolved <filename>
08:58:07  <MiHaMiX> stillunknown: svn resolved <file>
08:58:09  <MiHaMiX> ahh
08:58:28  <MiHaMiX> I should've read the whole history before replying :)
09:00:11  <Celestar> crappy crap
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09:01:50  <stillunknown> thank you, i can't remember ever needing to do that, but maybe this was the first time that i had fix conflicts on my test svn server
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09:03:33  * peter1138 shuffles functions around
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09:06:03  <test> hey
09:06:15  <Darkvater> hi test, got a question for ya
09:06:21  <test> wow me?
09:06:48  <Darkvater> test: you had a test-program to flood the server with players. I had a look at it but can't really see a way of preventing that in any way
09:07:00  <test> the fake players bug
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09:07:13  <test> as you can see all the games have this problem
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09:07:27  <Darkvater> test: I mean sure, you can filter for connect-time, but then you can build in a timeout
09:07:33  <Celestar> aRGH
09:07:34  <Darkvater> test: only thing that worked was ban :)
09:07:43  <test> ban or IP limiting
09:07:43  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: can we change the coloring on Flysprach anyhow?
09:07:49  <test> connections per ip limiting
09:07:59  <Celestar> conns per IP makes sense.
09:08:09  <Celestar> but it needs to be adjustable.
09:08:11  <Celestar> (NAT)
09:08:14  <Darkvater> you can fake IP's
09:08:23  <test> no you can't, it's TCP
09:08:33  <Celestar> Darkvater: in TCP that is kind of difficult
09:08:57  <test> but also on UDP is difficult, think to the challenge parameter in the Quake engine for example
09:09:51  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: colors of what? :DDD
09:10:06  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: of course, we can. someone just needs to create a different css file :)
09:10:13  <Darkvater> hmm
09:10:27  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: you forgot to send your requests on flyspray
09:10:39  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: no, didn't forget them
09:10:42  <Darkvater> didn't write :)
09:10:47  <MiHaMiX> ok :)
09:10:55  <stillunknown> anyone know where GetSignalState is defined?
09:10:58  <test> anyway Dark can you keep me update about the situation of the other two vulnerabilities I reported? the latest nightly build (4336?) is still vulnerable
09:11:07  <Darkvater> test: which one(s)?
09:11:10  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: can we improve Flyspray somehow once WT2 is done?
09:11:50  <test> clients kicked to the main menu through malformed UDP and server termination through garbage data
09:11:56  <test> (like long nicknames)
09:12:11  <test> all the 3 bugs I reported can be tested with my usual tool
09:12:39  <CIA-3> celestar * r4377 /trunk/ (rail_cmd.c rail_map.h): -Add and make use of a function that finds out whether a signal is an entry or and exit signal to a presignal block (as combos act as both)
09:12:43  <Darkvater> hmm, I think I fixed the long-nicknames one
09:12:56  <Darkvater> test: the UDP thing I donnu, haven't looked at it
09:13:03  <Celestar> test: Darkvater: maybe we should make a "multiplayer" section for the problem reports?
09:13:33  <test> Dark: I saw the comment on the SVN about UDP being fixed
09:13:40  <test> I talk about over a week ago
09:14:22  <Celestar> ok so much for the presignal shit
09:14:50  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: of course we can
09:14:57  <Darkvater> test: oh, I think I missed that one then. But I know I fixed the nickname thing (eg more likely it is validated)
09:15:00  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: i'm already waiting a list of requests from Darkvater
09:15:18  <test> Dark test my tool versus the Windows nightly build
09:15:29  <Darkvater> test: your random nickname is too lenient though :P. It should just pick a random 0-255 range instead of the string-table you got there
09:15:51  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: ETA of WT2? :)
09:16:06  <Darkvater> test: will do tonight
09:16:20  <test> eh eh eh it's a simple function I use everywhere eh eh
09:16:43  <test> ok Dark, anyway if you have doubts you can also contact me via mail
09:18:02  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: will open WT2 this week, and I can work on flyspray right after (if I don't have an extra work at workplace)
09:18:10  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: but WT2 is still far from finish
09:18:38  <Darkvater> test: will do :)
09:18:39  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: it'll just be opened, but there'll be lots of future changes before I can say WT2 is finished :)
09:18:46  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: ok :)
09:22:45  <stillunknown> what's WT2?
09:23:46  <MiHaMiX> stillunknown: WebTranslator2
09:24:26  <MiHaMiX> stillunknown: a wab-based facility for translating OpenTTD
09:24:50  <test> well, I return to work (ah ah ah) probably I will return this afternoon to know if there are updates
09:24:57  <test> BYEZ
09:25:07  <MiHaMiX> test: bye
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09:31:30  <stillunknown> @peter1138: seperate physics patches:
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09:32:48  <stillunknown> helle TL
09:32:51  <stillunknown> *hello
09:33:03  <Celestar> one might wonder why dock_gui.c depends on rail_map.h :S
09:33:16  <Celestar> I'm beginning to hate it again :P
09:33:32  <stillunknown> just remove it and see if it breaks :-)
09:34:42  <peter1138> 62KB
09:34:59  <peter1138> one might wonder why my lunchbox is empty
09:35:00  <Celestar> stillunknown: I'll try to do some de-headering later on.
09:35:41  <stillunknown> @peter1138: ???
09:36:13  * peter1138 compilifies
09:36:29  <CIA-3> celestar * r4378 /trunk/ (rail_cmd.c rail_map.h): -Add and make use of an accessor function two-way => one-way => one-way => two-way signal cycling
09:36:41  <Celestar> and 6 more map accesses down
09:37:27  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: what? compilify?
09:38:32  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: btw, your lunch-box is empty, and I left mine at home :-(
09:38:52  * MiHaMiX is starving :-(
09:40:44  <Darkvater> I'm starving as well :(
09:40:49  <Darkvater> one more hour until lunch
09:40:51  <Celestar> that makes 4 of us.
09:41:11  <Darkvater> this is very troubling
09:41:20  <MiHaMiX> poor openttd developers.. they don't have food to eat :(
09:41:44  <MiHaMiX> shall we put some newsitem into the main page asking users to send us some.. food? :D
09:42:20  <pasky> you should then also devise a rationing system for supporting poor retired developers!
09:42:21  <peter1138> o_O
09:43:09  <MiHaMiX> pasky: okay, you'll have share on the donations we'll receive
09:43:20  <stillunknown> developers are strange creatures indeed :-)
09:43:36  * RichK67 is happy - i just finished a bacon roll ;)
09:43:48  <Celestar> hey RichK67 :)
09:43:51  * peter1138 has no cash for the van either
09:44:06  <Celestar> RichK67: yes, I'll add the sortable station list later.
09:44:30  <Celestar> back later
09:44:32  <RichK67> great
09:44:54  <Celestar> but you can add it,so it gets tested
09:49:16  <peter1138> bah, 75KB
09:49:22  <peter1138> (forgot to add new files)
09:49:41  <stillunknown> what is 75 KiB?
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09:53:52  <omay> hi i downloaded some newgrf files, i can see them in openttd in the newgrf menu, bug somehow i can't activate them
09:54:35  <omay> how i must activate the changes?
09:54:38  <Darkvater> which ones?
09:54:52  <Darkvater> you don't need any activation, they just work (tm)
09:54:56  <stillunknown> have you changed openttd.cfg and included them?
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09:55:04  <Darkvater> i can see them in openttd in the newgrf menu, bug somehow i can't activate them
09:55:47  <omay> i downloaded them from
09:55:48  * stillunknown misread, sorry
09:56:11  * peter1138 ponders ripping that gui out
09:57:01  <stillunknown> let's hope you don't want to make openttd gui-less :-)
09:57:06  <omay> maybe they are not compatible with opentttd?
09:57:56  <omay> there is a read quadrat before each of them
09:58:01  <stillunknown> which grf's did you get?
09:58:19  <omay> all of them
09:59:09  <Darkvater> omay: if you are using the dbset for example, it only works in the temperate climate
09:59:24  <Darkvater> some will not even work
09:59:38  <omay> ah my error
09:59:43  <omay> some changes were done
10:00:07  <stillunknown> newgrf implementation in openttd is not complete
10:00:19  <omay> e.g i have new trains ;)
10:00:47  <stillunknown> UKRS, united kingdom renewal set is nice imo
10:01:16  <stillunknown> arctic set and tropic set for those two climates
10:01:29  <stillunknown> newships
10:01:49  <stillunknown> there's an aircraft set which name i don't remeber now
10:03:29  <Darkvater> I am really bumming uzurpator disappeared
10:03:45  <Darkvater> the refurbished tropic set started out to look really really  nice
10:04:30  <omay> do you have some links for me with cool new grfs?
10:04:43  <peter1138> at least the current one works now
10:04:44  <Darkvater> omay: try out grfcrawler (google for it)
10:05:01  <Darkvater> peter1138: yeah :)
10:05:04  <peter1138>
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10:22:08  <omay> Darkvater: it's only a search site, i aksed for some grfs to tried out and they are good
10:22:22  <omay> i mean, that you allready tried out
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10:24:25  <Darkvater> omay: ?
10:24:56  <omay> Darkvater: i asked for grfs that you play allready, that works, and that are fine for you
10:25:25  <Darkvater> ah for me?
10:25:46  <Darkvater> right now I use tropicset, eurorads, newships and airplaneset
10:25:53  <Darkvater> or something, donnu what it's exactly called
10:26:18  <Darkvater> you could try the ukrs set, a lot of people use it for MP in ottd
10:27:25  <peter1138> dbsetxl, arctic renewal work well
10:27:33  <peter1138> ussetw works, i haven't extensively tested it though
10:27:38  <Darkvater> <-- food
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10:35:09  * peter1138 ponders a refit feature
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10:44:10  <Celestar> hey peops
10:44:50  <omay> Darkvater: hm, i tried it, but only the trains are new
10:45:05  <Celestar> enlighten me, if a signal is red, the corresponding bit in the map array is clear?
10:45:37  <omay> industries, roads, builds are all the same
10:46:23  <peter1138> Celestar: sounds about right
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10:57:10  <stillunknown> <-- European roadset, works as far as i know
10:59:00  <blathijs> Celestar: Isn't that cleary documented in landscape.html?
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10:59:22  <blathijs> typedef enum SignalStates { SIGNAL_STATE_RED = 0, SIGNAL_STATE_GREEN = 1,
10:59:23  <blathijs> } SignalState;
10:59:32  <blathijs> Celestar: so, yes :-)
11:00:07  <stillunknown> <-- new town buldings
11:00:11  <stillunknown> @omay
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11:01:32  <stillunknown> what happens if you make signal state a uint and use -1 for yellow, would that be possible? (or -1 for red, 0 for yellow, and 1 for green)
11:01:58  <blathijs> no
11:02:10  <hylje> yes
11:02:12  <blathijs> you could use 2 bits for it instead of 1, and make yelllow 2 or something
11:02:13  <hylje> ?
11:02:49  <blathijs> stillunknown: why would you want to use -1 anyway? Just make a enum for it and don't care about actual values, right?
11:03:46  * stillunknown is not so well versed in c and assumed that even when states are identified by string, they always get an integer as identifier too
11:04:15  <stillunknown> string could be the wrong word though, not sure about the name :-)
11:04:31  <blathijs> a constant would be better :-)
11:04:58  <blathijs> but using -1 would not be useful, since these values don't get stored in a (u)int, but get bitpacked in the map array
11:05:06  <blathijs> iow, there is only one bit for signal state
11:05:21  <stillunknown> time to expand to 2 bits :-)
11:07:00  <peter1138> easier said than done, of course
11:08:34  <stillunknown> maybe there isn't a way to be able to create a second bit which represents yellow signal and slowly implement the code to recognize that bit
11:09:03  <stillunknown> a system with multiple state bits for a signal
11:10:08  <Celestar> blathijs: we need to de-map the code first
11:10:09  <stillunknown> does c allow for arrays where if you call the array without any argument you get the 0 spot
11:10:15  <stillunknown> ?
11:10:35  <Celestar> without any arguemnt you get the address.
11:11:39  <blathijs> Celestar: yes, I know
11:12:11  <Celestar> and I'm currently working on it as fast as possible.
11:12:19  <Celestar> faster actually, because I'm spending time on it I shouldn't.
11:12:44  <stillunknown> signal states and the likes is tied into tileproperty instead of object property?
11:12:58  <Celestar> stillunknown: there is no "signal" object.
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11:18:31  <stillunknown> if anyone where aircraft autoreplace is done (not the sending to depot, that i did find), i
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11:18:58  <stillunknown> would appreciate knowing that
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11:23:53  <RichK67> still: try in aircraft_cmd.c   there should be an "arrive at hangar" process, and i would guess the hook to the replace mechanism is in there
11:26:24  <Darkvater> which is waaaay to fscking ugly and I blame Bjarni for it
11:38:52  <peter1138> heh
11:39:03  <Celestar> static void AircraftEnterHangar(Vehicle *v)
11:39:22  <peter1138> it's way lower than that ;p
11:39:44  <peter1138> it's called from CallVehicleTicks()
11:40:21  <Darkvater> WHAT are you searching for/
11:42:45  <RichK67> stillunknown was looking for where aircraft autoreplace is done; its almost certainly in VehicleServiceInDepot called from ServiceAircraft
11:44:19  <RichK67> hmmm... maybe not
11:44:21  <Celestar> .oO(this replace code is all over the place)
11:46:21  <Celestar> bah
11:46:25  <Celestar> I cannot see any fences :o
11:47:03  <Celestar> EVERY FUCKING FILE depends on rail_map.h :S
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11:49:46  <RichK67> actually thats a point.... any chance of having the "fuck"s removed from the SVN source?
11:50:55  <Celestar> RichK67: which ones? :o
11:52:11  <MiHaMiX> network.c:      // This means we fucked up and the server closed the connection
11:52:11  <MiHaMiX> rail_cmd.c:             /* XXX: Why the fuck do we remove these thow signals first? */
11:52:30  <RichK67> 5 programs: network.c, rail_cmd.c, npf.c, and ai.default.c, ai.trolly.c
11:52:36  <MiHaMiX> network.c:241:  // This means we fucked up and the server closed the connection
11:52:36  <MiHaMiX> rail_cmd.c:1008:                /* XXX: Why the fuck do we remove these thow signals first? */
11:53:12  <MiHaMiX> ai/default/default.c:2110:                              AI is so fucked up that fixing this small thing will probably not solve a thing
11:53:15  <MiHaMiX> ai/default/default.c:3008:                              AI is so fucked up that fixing this small thing will probably not solve a thing
11:53:19  <MiHaMiX> ai/trolly/trolly.c:1261:                        // There is a possibility that the route is fucked up...
11:53:29  <Celestar> hm...
11:53:31  <MiHaMiX> Binary file data/ matches
11:53:33  <MiHaMiX> :DDDD
11:53:51  <Darkvater> fuck it
11:54:00  <MiHaMiX> RichK67: i can't find it at npf.c
11:54:09  <Darkvater> one most be allowed to express his/her own feelings about the code
11:54:29  <RichK67> its part of the old pbs code....
11:54:29  <RichK67>                           * this point....
11:54:29  <RichK67>                           * BUT, you have to have a pretty fucked up junction layout for this to happen,
11:54:29  <RichK67>                           * so we'll just stop this train, the user will eventually notice, so he can fix it.
11:55:20  <RichK67> sure, snafu fine, hell fine (imo), but for a public project, fuck is counter to the "PG" ethos of TT
11:55:49  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> svn blame network.c rail_cmd.c ai/default/default.c ai/trolly/trolly.c | grep fuck | awk '{print }' | sort | uniq -c
11:55:50  <Celestar>       1 matthijs
11:55:51  <MiHaMiX> RichK67: have you ever grepped "fuck" in the linux kernel source?
11:55:53  <Celestar>       4 truelight
11:56:06  <Celestar> 4 of 5 occurences by TrueLight
11:56:09  <MiHaMiX> lol :))
11:56:12  * Celestar slaps TrueLight
11:56:16  <RichK67> lol
11:56:35  <TrueLight> I fuck a lot in general
11:56:42  <RichK67> lucky man
11:56:45  <TrueLight> ;)
11:56:51  <TrueLight> okay
11:56:56  <TrueLight> that wasn't the intention of the line
11:57:10  <Celestar> of what line? :P
11:57:12  <MiHaMiX> :))))))
11:57:27  <TrueLight> but 3 of them are in ai code
11:57:28  <TrueLight> no wonder
11:57:32  <TrueLight> I mean, come on, it is fucked :)
11:57:39  * Darkvater concurs
11:57:53  <Darkvater> RichK67: how many PG players do you see hacking away at the openttd codebase?
11:57:56  <RichK67> suggestions: SNAFU, "messed up", "why on earth", etc.
11:58:03  <Darkvater> it's not like fuck is visible anywhere in the code
11:58:10  <CIA-3> celestar * r4379 /trunk/ (rail_cmd.c rail_map.h): -Codechange: Add and make use of map accessor functions concerning rail ground types
11:58:19  <Darkvater> we even had some lkasjdf098e2jr-tard censor out townnames like 'cuntville'
11:58:26  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: :
11:58:27  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/usr/src/linux]> grep -Ri fuck * | wc -l
11:58:27  <Celestar> 57
11:58:41  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: that's what I told :)
11:59:01  <TrueLight> So we should rate the linux kernel PG :)
11:59:04  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: everyone has 'fuck' in his/her source
11:59:04  <RichK67> sure... its just a question.... i was just suprised when one of my .patch builds had a fuck comment in one of the quoted lines
11:59:20  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> svn log | grep -i fuck | wc -l
11:59:21  <Celestar> 3
11:59:28  <Celestar> TrueLight: please modify those entries ;)(
11:59:39  <TrueLight> Celestar: give us the full lines
11:59:44  <Darkvater> screw that, don't do it TrueLight !
11:59:49  <MiHaMiX> even in WT2
11:59:54  <Celestar> I was kidding TrueLight :P
12:00:02  <MiHaMiX> though in an external code (menu)
12:00:03  <MiHaMiX> menu/src/PieNG.js:7:            // fucked-up browser (Internet Explorer for Windows)
12:00:07  <MiHaMiX> menu/src/.svn/text-base/PieNG.js.svn-base:7:            // fucked-up browser (Internet Explorer for Windows)
12:00:09  <TrueLight> Celestar: I truely wonder what lines the word fuck was named
12:00:11  <RichK67> lol.... at this point the dev team self-destructs in an orgy of fighting ;)
12:00:26  <Celestar> -Fix: made the waypoint struct a bit more logic (no bit-fucking)
12:00:26  <Celestar> -Fix: Saving a game fucked up the industries.. sorry ;)
12:00:27  <Celestar> -Fix: [ 1092499 ] Copy order was fucked up, because memcpy said
12:00:32  <TrueLight> big-fucking is correct english
12:00:43  <TrueLight> I believe I wrote all 3 of them :s
12:00:44  <Celestar> small-fucking is not?
12:00:45  <Celestar> :P
12:00:56  <blathijs> Celestar: what is WT2?
12:00:56  <MiHaMiX> bbl, boss :)
12:01:03  <TrueLight> yeah, all 3 are on my name :)
12:01:05  <Celestar> yes TrueLight a 3 of them :)
12:01:10  <MiHaMiX> blathijs: WT2 = WebTranslator2
12:01:15  <TrueLight> that is kind of bad ;)
12:01:16  <blathijs> ah, right
12:02:31  <RichK67> bbl - to spread trouble ;)
12:02:47  <Celestar> one of the "fuck" comments is even fucking wrong.
12:03:08  <RichK67> fuck, no way
12:03:18  <Celestar> the one in rail_cmd.c
12:03:35  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: I have one of thise comments as well
12:03:44  <Darkvater> website/style.css:159
12:03:58  <RichK67> yeah, that was the one that popped into my .patch.... i couldnt understand it either ;)
12:04:14  <Darkvater> you were working on the website?
12:05:32  <RichK67> TL: how soon can we have the mini IN compile farm build working? the patch is nearing completion - 19 patches so far
12:05:53  <TrueLight> RichK67: ah, I will try to fix that tomorrow
12:06:06  <TrueLight> today I am rather busy :)
12:06:28  <blathijs> mini IN?
12:06:40  <RichK67> great... do i need to create a webpage for it (like the nightly build page), or should that go on the actual OpenTTD site?
12:07:01  <RichK67> mini IN - yeah, slightly less "mini" ... more like "maxi" now ;)
12:07:34  <blathijs> what is it?
12:07:35  <blathijs> IN?
12:07:37  <RichK67> a new integrated nightly - restores PBS, and adds a whole load of new patches - airports, terrain generator, etc.
12:08:13  <blathijs> ah, Integrated Nightly
12:08:47  <Celestar> so.
12:08:55  <Celestar> what about the idea to place signals on the tile edge?
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12:09:57  <RichK67> could get very messy - signals at top of one tile, and bottom of next
12:10:17  <blathijs> neh, there is just one border to place them on
12:10:19  <Celestar> RichK67: will not be possible.
12:10:32  <Celestar> because all signals would be pointing into the tile.
12:10:46  <blathijs> oeh, nice approach :-)
12:10:58  <RichK67> ok - yeah, i can imagine that
12:11:05  <Celestar> and we only have 4 edges
12:11:11  <Celestar> so we need not more than 4 signals
12:11:29  <Celestar> but that is very far future :(
12:11:47  <RichK67> hmm... we have 6 track directions though
12:11:48  <blathijs> I seem to remember that having some catches, but in general, I think it is a viable idea
12:12:04  <peter1138> 6 directions, but only 4 exits
12:12:11  <blathijs> RichK67: well, we have 6 tracks and 12 trackdirs, to be exact :-)
12:12:20  <blathijs> indeed
12:12:39  <blathijs> Celestar: But, you're working towards this a little with more map accessors?
12:12:43  <RichK67> all true.... i need food... must go feed....
12:12:50  <RichK67> bbl
12:12:53  <peter1138> only problem i can see is it is a major change to the map, heh
12:12:53  <CIA-3> celestar * r4380 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Codechange: Make use of GetTrackBits where appropriate
12:13:03  <peter1138> what about signal type?
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12:13:15  <Celestar> blathijs: the only thing that is a problem is converting old savegames.
12:13:36  <blathijs> Celestar: Saying it's a problem is an understatement
12:13:42  <blathijs> since that implies there is a solution ;-p
12:13:46  <Celestar> blathijs: there is :)
12:13:52  <blathijs> yeah, probably
12:13:56  <Jaraziah> Afternoon all :D
12:14:18  <peter1138> no signal / light signal / semaphore signal, red / green (/ yellow?), normal, presig 1, 2 or 3...
12:14:19  <blathijs> Celestar: its probably not even that hard I think
12:14:23  <Celestar> I still have 155 map acessors here
12:14:28  <Celestar> blathijs: as I said, it is doable.
12:14:38  <Celestar> I'll be working towards it after 0.5.0 is released.
12:15:03  <blathijs> peter1138: I think the map changes are not even that major. AFAICS you don't need extra bits
12:15:33  <Celestar> you wouldn't
12:15:42  <Jaraziah> Sub-tropical map, the year is 1990... e-rail cant be placed o.O while we can use e-rail in temperate
12:15:50  <blathijs> perhaps a few to make it nicer :-)
12:15:58  <blathijs> different types of signals on a tile and stuff like that
12:15:59  <Celestar> Jaraziah: that's because you don't have electric engines at all :)
12:16:08  <Celestar> blathijs: that is for later then.
12:16:10  * Jaraziah slaps forhead
12:17:23  <blathijs> Celestar: dunno, you might wanna do that right at once
12:17:24  <Jaraziah> Celestar : And euhm... thats bound to a year ?
12:17:39  <blathijs> though extending it later wouldn't pose extra problems I think (compatability wise and so)
12:18:08  <Darkvater> Jaraziah: don't think tropical climate has any electric engines whatsoever
12:18:25  <Jaraziah> ~.~
12:19:36  <Darkvater> unless you use the tropicset
12:21:01  <peter1138> Celestar: with tileedge signals, haven't different type signals becomes important
12:21:17  <peter1138> err s/haven't/having
12:21:37  <Celestar> peter1138: possibly, yes.
12:21:44  <Celestar> peter1138: and we want signals in stations.
12:21:51  <peter1138> presignals mainly, heh
12:21:52  <Celestar> (at least later on)
12:22:11  <peter1138> or ending up with semaphore on one side and light on the other side of a twoway signal
12:22:24  <Celestar> Jaraziah: I *hope* to have 0.5.0 somewhere mid-summer.
12:22:41  <Celestar> peter1138: that is but a question of bits.
12:22:45  <CIA-3> celestar * r4381 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Codechange: Forgot an occurence for rail ground types
12:22:48  <peter1138> yeah
12:23:11  <peter1138> hmm
12:23:39  <peter1138> is it okay to use 'struct' with a pointer type to avoid having to include the definition of that struct in files that don't need it?
12:23:51  <Jaraziah> Celestar: o.O
12:24:41  <CIA-3> celestar * r4382 /trunk/rail_cmd.c: -Codechange: Make use of SetSignalType where appropriate
12:25:25  <Celestar> peter1138: are you currently messing around in DrawTile_Track?
12:26:13  <peter1138> no
12:26:14  <peter1138> but
12:26:20  <peter1138> image += (image < _custom_sprites_base) ? rti->total_offset : GetRailTypeInfo(GetRailType(ti->tile))->custom_ground_offset;
12:26:23  <peter1138> is dumb ;)
12:26:34  <peter1138> should be : rti->custom_ground_offset;
12:27:29  <Celestar> huh?
12:27:35  <Celestar> ah!
12:27:48  <Celestar> instead of GetRailTypeInfo(GetRailType(ti->tile)), but rti ?
12:27:52  <peter1138> yesh
12:27:56  <peter1138> my change ;p
12:28:02  <Celestar> do it
12:29:39  <peter1138> ok
12:30:33  <peter1138> ffs
12:30:38  <peter1138> got servers behaving like yoyos :/
12:31:05  <Jaraziah> yoyo's.. lolz, how that so
12:31:23  <peter1138> no, yoyos
12:31:28  <peter1138> and worse
12:31:32  <peter1138> i've eaten all the food i got
12:31:46  <Jaraziah> depends how mutch food you had stored ;P
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12:32:10  <peter1138> 2 sandwiches, a sausage, a chicken thigh, and a peanut kitkat
12:33:24  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4383 /trunk/ (rail_cmd.c station_cmd.c waypoint.c): - Codechange: Remove extraneous code from 4354; no need to get RailTypeInfo when we already have it...
12:33:47  <Jaraziah> ow that reminds me >.< is it like posible to say how to call filename for a ss from a consol ? instead of getting like 'screenshot #3.png'
12:34:09  <peter1138> why does that remind you? :P
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12:35:58  <Jaraziah> thinking of food.. visualize... images..
12:36:01  <Jaraziah> nvm >.<
12:36:04  <Jaraziah> lest not go there lol
12:37:24  <peter1138> ok
12:37:43  * peter1138 considers spending the whole afternoon monitoring servers
12:37:56  <Jaraziah> as long as it aint mine ;)
12:38:13  <Jaraziah> <- runs -=BRP=- Free World
12:44:08  *** RichK67|away is now known as RichK67
12:44:30  * Jaraziah woders if should up to nigtly...
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12:48:34  <Celestar> peter1138: why?
12:48:37  <Celestar> peter1138: does it pay off?
12:50:42  <CIA-3> celestar * r4384 /trunk/ (rail_cmd.c rail_map.h table/track_land.h):
12:50:42  <CIA-3> -Codechange: rail drawing code
12:50:42  <CIA-3>  -Added a function to obtain the axis of a waypoint
12:50:42  <CIA-3>  -Moved the waypoint layout tables from the depot layout tables into an own one
12:50:42  <CIA-3>  -Use GetRailTileSubtype
12:50:59  <RichK67> peter1138: if you are changing the bitmap for signals, please leave room for PBS before using up all bits ;)
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12:53:50  <peter1138> i'm not touching signals
12:53:55  <peter1138> Celestar: because they're flapping
12:54:16  <Jaraziah> Dit any of you see my lil bug report? just curios >.<
12:54:43  <Celestar> which one?
12:54:50  <Jaraziah> #115
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12:56:01  <Celestar> is this a bug or a feature request?
12:56:06  <peter1138> what's the difference between all our seq structs?
12:56:10  <peter1138> DrawTrackSeqStruct
12:56:14  <peter1138> DrawTileSeqStruct ...
12:56:22  <peter1138> the latter is used for newstations
12:56:26  <peter1138> but what's the difference?
12:56:54  <Jaraziah> it kinda a bug, as long as i by hand not kick the inactive user it stays in and the frame-lag counter keeps going up
12:57:23  <peter1138> and i see elrail has its own one
12:57:37  <peter1138> (sortablespritestruct) heh
12:57:51  <Celestar> peter1138: there are more afaik.
12:59:17  <CIA-3> celestar * r4385 /trunk/ (landscape.c openttd.h): -Codechange: remove map5 from the TileInfo struct as it is now unused. This effort is starting to pay off ...
12:59:43  <Celestar> }o/
12:59:46  <Celestar> \o/
13:00:00  <RichK67> ouch... that ones gonna hurt TGPerlin :(
13:00:09  <Celestar> RichK67: it is?
13:00:12  <Celestar> sworry
13:00:22  <Celestar> why?
13:00:26  <RichK67> thats ok... its up to me to keep my code inline with yours
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13:00:38  <Celestar> RichK67: is the diff on the track?
13:00:41  <Celestar> tracker*
13:00:57  <peter1138> we should unify them
13:00:59  <RichK67> nope... dunno...
13:01:02  *** Rexxie [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:01:14  <peter1138> most are the same
13:01:23  *** Alltaken [n=chatzill@blender/artist/allTaken] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.70 [Firefox]"]
13:01:24  <Celestar> peter1138: just with a different arrangement :P
13:01:27  <peter1138> ah, some include groundsprite
13:01:28  <peter1138> yes
13:01:38  <peter1138> the ones that have a groundsprite then include the other type. hmm.
13:01:54  <peter1138> so really we just need two types
13:01:55  <RichK67> i usually find it ok enough to see what has changed, work out the new format required, and update.
13:02:51  <Celestar> RichK67: can you send me TGPerlin please?
13:02:58  <Celestar> I'm getting curious :)
13:04:59  <XeryusTC> Celestar: there is a old version there
13:05:05  <RichK67> celestar:   its a little out of date (ie.< 1 month old ;) )
13:05:55  <RichK67> im up to about 3j maybe 3k on my home (dev) system
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13:07:28  <blathijs> Celestar: w00t, death to the TileInfo struct! ;-)
13:07:30  <Celestar> RichK67: how fast is that patch compared to the current generator?
13:07:36  <Celestar> blathijs: working on it ;)
13:07:57  <MiHaMiX> back
13:07:58  <Celestar> RichK67: you want comments?
13:08:03  <MiHaMiX> it was a long meeting
13:08:03  <RichK67> very very very fast
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13:09:03  <RichK67> i did a test for 2048x2048.... original:2'58", old terragenesis: 2'59", new TGP: 0'35"
13:09:04  <MiHaMiX> :DDDDD
13:09:22  <Celestar> what hardward?
13:09:23  <Celestar> e
13:09:24  <RichK67> celestar: comments
13:09:33  <Celestar> ok.
13:09:36  <Celestar> I'll start from the top ;)
13:10:06  <RichK67> i have a P4 3.0, lots of memory.   but even so, it was same machine for all 3, and TGP was 5x faster
13:10:18  <MiHaMiX> hmm
13:10:18  <MiHaMiX>
13:10:21  <MiHaMiX> :)
13:10:26  <Celestar> industry_cmd.c:optional:we should maybe see/decided whether some industries can be on non-flat patches.
13:10:56  <Celestar> intro_gui.c:you have trailing newlines. (around line 74). 3 of them.
13:11:14  <RichK67> oops - major fault then ;)
13:11:29  <Celestar> well, trailing newlines cannot be committed
13:11:51  <Celestar> landscape.c: "math.h" should be <math.h> imho.
13:12:08  <RichK67> ok
13:12:17  <Celestar> landscale.c: all these functions should (possibly) go into an own file.
13:12:35  <Celestar> landscape.c:indendation done by spaces instead of tabs.
13:12:54  <RichK67> you want by spaces or by tabs?
13:12:54  <Celestar> +    return (int)(temp_perlin_value);
13:12:55  <Celestar> +}¬
13:12:59  <Celestar> trailing newline
13:13:27  <Darkvater> ,-- cool terrain
13:13:32  <RichK67> hmmm... can you emai/l/pm me with these?
13:13:44  <Celestar> ok.
13:14:10  <Celestar> Darkvater: that a DNA profile :P
13:15:10  <XeryusTC> yup
13:15:18  <XeryusTC> converted it from "tiff" to jpg for Celestar :P
13:17:01  <Celestar> RichK67: there are not many conflicts.
13:17:07  <Celestar> RichK67: general discussion:
13:17:23  <Celestar> 1) I'm not sure why we need a patch option, and not make TGP the only generator
13:17:38  <Celestar> 2) When you generate, can we have some kind of progress bar? ;)
13:18:06  * glx thinks 2) is a good idea
13:18:10  <Darkvater> 3) definitely needs a gui
13:18:23  <Celestar> Darkvater: a GUI is there.
13:18:32  <Darkvater> there is? got pic?
13:18:43  <Celestar>
13:19:18  <Celestar> I need someone to come up with a good indea on how to deal with TileLoop_Station and AnimateTile_Station.
13:19:33  <RichK67> i want to add a couple of extra "new game" options;
13:19:38  <Darkvater> aaah, i see
13:19:41  <blathijs> what's TGP?
13:19:42  <RichK67> 1) take terrain from PNG map
13:19:47  <blathijs> ah
13:19:48  <blathijs> nvm
13:19:54  <Darkvater> it'd need all the changes from the difficulty options though somehow
13:19:59  <RichK67> 2) read terrain from scenario
13:20:07  <Celestar> RichK67: there's no need for 2).
13:20:11  <Celestar> "Start new game" does that.
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13:20:36  <RichK67> DV: already sorted... it reads/updates both _patches, and _patches_newgame
13:21:25  <RichK67> celestar: what i mean is to allow a prepared terrain without towns, and New Game adds towns and industries... current Start New Game wont handle a scenario with no towns
13:22:24  <Celestar> true
13:22:24  <peter1138> Celestar: what's up with them
13:22:26  <peter1138> ?
13:22:45  <Celestar> peter1138: how to do them a bit prettier.
13:22:55  <Darkvater> RichK67: no I mean you have difficulty options with the settings of water, terrain, etc.
13:23:01  <peter1138> ah
13:23:12  <Darkvater> RichK67: if you have a GUI you want the settigs all there and not in the difficulty settings
13:23:15  <peter1138> at least it's a switch block instead of cascading ifs ;)
13:23:28  <Celestar> again: we don't need 2 terrain generators, do we?
13:23:34  <RichK67> on your 2 main discussion points; 1) that decision is totally up to the devs. 2) progress bar is ok, but may slow down generation
13:23:40  <Darkvater> the old one had its charms ;)
13:23:51  <Celestar> Darkvater: does it?
13:24:05  <Celestar> Darkvater: it took as a long time to make it work decently with large maps.
13:24:13  * Celestar can remember waiting for like 20 minutes for a map.
13:24:18  <RichK67> DV: GUI all sorted... see  first pic
13:24:21  <Darkvater> yeah, it worked for 10 years didn't it?
13:24:41  <Celestar> why-
13:24:42  <Celestar> WHY
13:24:45  <Darkvater> what would rule though is real lakes. lakes higher than lvl1 :)
13:24:55  <Celestar> WHY does EVERY file depend on rail_map.h
13:25:00  <RichK67> DV... yeah - high level water :)
13:25:03  <Celestar> Darkvater: THAT should not be difficult.
13:25:12  <Darkvater> RichK67: and your snow idea of course :)
13:25:27  <peter1138> rail.h:#include "rail_map.h"
13:25:28  <Darkvater> RichK67: yes, seen it. But they are now double here and in diff options
13:25:32  <RichK67> problem is when someone deletes the retaining wall, and the water floods everywhere
13:25:33  <peter1138> player.h:#include "rail.h"
13:25:40  <peter1138> vehicle.h:#include "rail.h"
13:25:42  <Darkvater> ok, perhaps not a pre for TG, but definitely needing a serious thinkover
13:25:49  <CIA-3> celestar * r4386 /trunk/ (rail_cmd.c rail_map.h): -Codechange: Add and make use of IsCustomWaypoint
13:25:49  <peter1138> that's why
13:26:31  <Darkvater> RichK67: it could be made so retaining wall cannot be removed...for the time being at least
13:26:58  <RichK67> DV. sure... if you like I could remove them from difficulty options ;)   but thats definitely a devs choice. i didnt want to make TGP too disabling of existing features
13:27:29  <RichK67> lol - this is getting confusing... two convos with same guy ;)
13:28:15  <valhalla1w> Darkvater: [krvabo]alfred_judocus_kwak_s1e01nl.avi :Y)
13:28:24  <RichK67> DV: re snow... i havent had time to look at it
13:29:01  <Darkvater> valhalla1w: ?
13:29:26  <valhalla1w> you're not going to tell me you have never watched it?
13:29:53  <Darkvater> RichK67: even then, new-game GUI and diff-window need to be merged. that's why I brought it up. But it's definitely not a pre for TG
13:29:59  <Celestar> back in 5
13:30:30  <RichK67> DV: re high level water. the problem is in the water_tick code that spreads water. if we restrict it that water does NOT flow downhill, then lakes can be terraformed at high level
13:30:33  <Darkvater> RichK67: it only needs to update _patches_newgame though. All the rest is handled by ottd as far as I know
13:30:36  <Darkvater> valhalla1w: no haven't
13:31:12  <Darkvater> RichK67: there is absolutely no code about water flooding down. there aren't even 'river'-water graphics
13:31:38  <RichK67> DV: i had all sorts of problems with it. as i use the same dialog for new game and for scenario generator, one needed _patches_newgame, the other _patches... daft system if you ask me ;)
13:31:40  <valhalla1w> O_o
13:32:41  <Darkvater> ah
13:32:47  <stillunknown> is the state currently defined for existing tiles(with height info) or for every height level of "tiles"?
13:32:51  <Darkvater> RichK67: you could pointerize it as I did with the patches-gui
13:33:01  <RichK67> DV: see my africa scenario to see how i had to use canals for Lake Victoria etc... looked ok in the end, but would be MUCH better with real shorelines
13:33:33  * RichK67 blushes... dont really understand pointers.... im still fairly new to C (since Oct05)
13:33:58  <blathijs> The thing with high water, is that it is currently used to make canals
13:34:14  <blathijs> they are just water tiles that are above sea level
13:34:32  <Darkvater> that's the only advantage lomo has over us...real water
13:34:46  <stillunknown> pointers are variables that don't have a defined length as far as i know, but i don't really understand them either :-)
13:35:01  <peter1138> pointers point
13:35:06  <Darkvater> pointers are just variables that point somehwere
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13:35:39  <Darkvater> if I am a pointer and I point to RichK67 and someone kicks me, I kick RichK67
13:35:46  <Darkvater> but if I point to stillunknown, I kick him
13:36:16  <RichK67> so its like passing vars by  reference rather than by value
13:36:20  <Noldo> stillunknown: defined lenght?
13:36:27  <stillunknown> so basicly multiple pointers in the same function could be used and influenced by one variable?
13:36:41  <Darkvater> other way around stillunknown
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13:36:57  <Noldo> RichK67: that and you can do pointer artihmethics
13:36:58  <Darkvater> I can have peter1138 point to you, who'll also kick you
13:37:12  <Darkvater> RichK67: that is a use, yes
13:37:28  <stillunknown> Noldo: forget it
13:37:44  * stillunknown doesn't really know
13:38:56  <stillunknown> int variable = 1;
13:39:15  <stillunknown> int *pointer = variable;
13:39:22  <stillunknown> variable = 10;
13:39:28  <stillunknown> pointer = 10?
13:39:34  <Noldo> that will segfault
13:39:36  <glx> *pointer =10
13:39:51  <Celestar> wwwback
13:39:57  <Celestar> Darkvater: we can also have real water.
13:40:06  <Celestar> I mean we already have water tiles above sea level
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13:40:30  <hylje> water simulation ftw?
13:40:35  <XeryusTC> a variable stores a value, a pointer stores the memory address of the value. probably doesn't help :P
13:40:54  <hylje> have springs around the terrain and water flowing from em
13:41:01  <Darkvater> Celestar: we have 1) no code for downhill-flooding 2) no depth information
13:41:18  <stillunknown> wouldn't it be easier to expand the map array, then to hack a load of features into it?
13:41:22  <blathijs> we would need water heights for that
13:41:32  <Darkvater> canals are just a hack imho
13:41:38  <Darkvater> in their current state
13:41:43  <blathijs> but, that is exactly what the new map array was designed to do
13:41:47  <Darkvater> based off of the patch hack
13:41:51  <Darkvater> yep
13:41:51  <blathijs> using stacked tiles, one for the bottom, one for the water
13:42:03  <hylje> while you hax the map arrays, allow for several layers of rail
13:42:07  <hylje> for signals etc
13:42:28  <blathijs> hylje: how do you mean, several layers?
13:42:28  <Celestar> Darkvater: the water tile type has enough bits free to store that information, right?
13:42:49  <hylje> blathijs: signals and junctions in tunnels for instance?
13:43:03  <Celestar> that will not work that easily
13:43:07  <hylje> although its a trivial feature
13:43:08  <Celestar> unless we have 128 bits per tile.
13:43:28  <hylje> it would be quite neat
13:43:29  <blathijs> Celestar: hmm, since the bottom itself is never used, except for when the water is gone, it could be hacked over the current watertiles :-)
13:43:30  <RichK67> by definition, a water tile has nothing else in it (ok some have coast)... use some of the spare bits (you only need 4) to use as water depth
13:43:30  <stillunknown> isn't it possible to create parrallel systems, one which defines an endless array of states for each cube in ottd space and the old system to do everything that hasn't been converted?
13:43:46  <Celestar> stillunknown: you cannot have a 3D map.
13:44:02  <blathijs> hylje: yes, that is thought about and taken care of in the new map design.
13:44:20  <hylje> good
13:44:29  <Celestar> only the new map design ...
13:44:31  <blathijs> RichK67: you need more, since the water can become more than 1 tile deep
13:44:43  <hylje> its good to have some efforts to remove barriers and restrictions
13:44:55  <stillunknown> what i mean: lets say you have water at level 5, and next to it a tile with water at level 4 and 5
13:45:00  <RichK67> blathijs: yeah, use 4 bits = depth 0-15
13:45:06  <stillunknown> that would be a waterfall of some kind
13:45:16  <Celestar> hylje: it is all not that easy with savegame compatibility in mind
13:45:21  <blathijs> also, you need to store the shape of the bottom below the water, since that is not necesarily flat
13:45:28  <hylje> Celestar: yep legacy stuff is annoying for restructuring
13:45:42  <blathijs> RichK67: if you want flooding, you want to be more granular than whole tiles
13:45:48  <Celestar> but we plan not to break it.
13:46:03  <Celestar> blathijs: than use 8 damn bit
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13:46:15  <Celestar> water has 32 bits free at the moment.
13:46:29  <Celestar> 16 if we store depot information.
13:46:34  <RichK67> i dont think its worth the coding effort to create an effect that will be much easier in newmap
13:46:47  <Celestar> what's the newmap we're talking about? :P
13:46:47  <stillunknown> is it a huge overhead to make the basis of a system to store much more map related data parralell to the old system, because moving everything over instantly is impossible?
13:47:51  <stillunknown> *parallel
13:48:02  <Celestar> ?
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13:48:34  <stillunknown> let's say you make an array to store data for tiles(each layer)
13:48:50  <blathijs> stillunknown: moving over instantly is possible (that is, in a few weeks probably), but not with the current code
13:49:08  <hylje> #define instantly few weeks
13:49:13  <blathijs> since you get stuck in rewriting incomprehensible pieces of code instead of converting them
13:49:59  <Celestar> you guys must know more than I do about a map rewrute
13:50:02  <Celestar> rewrite*
13:50:05  <hylje> should this newmap support 3d some day
13:50:15  <Darkvater> it won't
13:50:28  <Celestar> you mean 3D graphics?
13:50:29  <hylje> if someone is arsed enough to create a fun engine
13:50:41  <Darkvater> it won't
13:50:45  <stillunknown> then how can stuff like bridges over eachother be supported?
13:50:48  <hylje> very well
13:51:19  <blathijs> stillunknown: it should, yes
13:51:24  <Noldo> stillunknown: with a 2.5D map
13:51:41  <blathijs> Celestar: The last attempt for newmap conversion, still has a solid design which I refer to
13:52:05  <Celestar> blathijs: the design needs improvement imho
13:52:41  <Darkvater> it was confusing yes..but current abstraction is also confusing ;)
13:52:47  <blathijs> Celestar: on what areas?
13:52:57  <Darkvater> getrailtype, getrailtiletype, getrailtracktype, getrailtiletracktypebytile
13:52:59  <Darkvater> jeuzus
13:53:10  <Celestar> blathijs: there were too many different things that referred to a square piece with stuff on it.
13:53:18  <blathijs> hehe
13:53:21  <Celestar> Darkvater: that's an intermediate step.
13:53:31  <RichK67> bbl
13:53:34  <blathijs> We had one coordinate system too much, I think
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13:53:50  <Celestar> TileStack Tile* and what not all.
13:54:44  <Celestar> IF a rewrite is done, WHY do we need tiles at all?
13:54:50  <Celestar> I see no reason.
13:54:59  <blathijs> what would we need then?
13:55:12  <Celestar> just free-form coordinates
13:55:44  <Celestar> store landscape as bezier surfaces and tracks as bezier curves
13:56:08  <blathijs> I think Railroad Tycoon did something like that?
13:56:15  <blathijs> I remember finding it sucky..
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13:56:28  <Celestar> dunno
13:56:31  <Celestar> you mean RRT2?
13:56:33  <Celestar> or 3?
13:56:36  <blathijs> think 2
13:56:54  <Noldo> RRT2 has some kind of tile structure
13:57:00  <blathijs> Celestar: still, moving away from tiles to something so radically different is a few orders more complex to change that stacked tiles
13:57:15  <blathijs> s/that/than/
13:57:48  <Celestar> well ... :)
13:58:12  <Celestar> still.
13:58:15  <Noldo> and it's quite a lot of calculating
13:58:27  <Celestar> Noldo: depends on who does the calculating :)
13:58:38  <Celestar> the nice thing about openttd is the efficiency.
13:58:43  <Celestar> we should keep that.
13:58:46  <Noldo> what are the options?
13:59:04  <Celestar> Noldo: for display? the GPU does a fucking good job rendering those :)
13:59:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the worst problem with interpolated tracks is usually the user interface
13:59:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that is always either too messed up or too unfunctional
13:59:47  <Noldo> Celestar: uuh, nice eye candy
13:59:49  <Celestar> but that would need a more or less state-of-the-art computer.
13:59:57  <blathijs> Celestar: The advantage of tiles that you can properly design junctions and all
13:59:59  <hylje> fork a hi-def ottd?
14:00:37  <Celestar> hylje: we don't have the manpower.
14:00:44  <hylje> very well
14:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should think about getting womanpower ;)
14:03:20  <Celestar> who is currently actively developing stuff in trunk?
14:03:42  <XeryusTC> Celestar: according to the logs, you :P
14:03:54  <Celestar> lol
14:04:10  <Celestar> I can't fork me :P
14:04:37  <XeryusTC> get a girlfriend ;)
14:04:41  <Celestar> I have one.
14:04:46  <Celestar> no need for a second.
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14:05:09  <XeryusTC> hehe :)
14:05:23  <Celestar> Darkvater: and: we're (almost) finished with abstracting the map.
14:05:38  <blathijs> getting more girlfriends won't help on the free time department
14:05:40  <blathijs> on the contrary
14:05:54  <Celestar> blathijs: amdahl's law? ;)
14:05:59  <XeryusTC> blathijs: it helps forking yourself ;)
14:06:00  <blathijs> what?
14:06:11  <Celestar> more girlfriend == more management problems? :P
14:06:24  *** Mucht [] has quit ["I'll be back!"]
14:06:27  <blathijs> XeryusTC: I'm not really sure if they like it if you refer to that as "forking"
14:06:47  <Celestar> we really need to get rid of RailTypeSubtypes :S
14:06:55  <Celestar> and a "signal" rail type.
14:07:13  <Celestar> I still have 18 map accesses left in rail_cmd.c however.
14:07:20  <XeryusTC> blathijs: you're probably right
14:07:34  <Celestar> lol
14:07:54  <blathijs> Celestar: You mean Depots and Waypoints should get their own railtype?
14:07:56  <blathijs> uh
14:07:58  <blathijs> tiletype?
14:08:27  <glx> they could
14:09:40  <Celestar> blathijs: no
14:09:48  <Celestar> blathijs: but Waypoints should not be a subtype of depots.
14:10:10  <blathijs> true
14:10:10  <Celestar> blathijs: in npf.c, there's stuff blocked out (line 477). what to do with it?
14:10:29  <blathijs> but, depot is a subtype of rail right now, isn't it?
14:10:36  <Celestar> blathijs: yes.
14:10:37  <blathijs> which is pretty weird, but ok-ish
14:10:50  <blathijs> in a way, a waypoint is a subtype of rail, not of depot I think?
14:11:09  <Celestar> waypoints and depot are both the same subtype of rail.
14:11:26  <blathijs> Celestar: did I #if that out?
14:11:28  <Celestar> and then waypoints and depot are another subtype of the waypoint_depot subtype.
14:11:32  <Celestar> blathijs: I'm not sure.
14:11:40  <blathijs> checking
14:11:50  <Celestar> 2473   matthijs #if 0
14:11:52  <Celestar> yes you did
14:11:59  <glx> blathijs: you did (it's based of one of my patch)
14:12:05  <blathijs> hmm, I did
14:12:13  <blathijs> - Fix: [ 1203769 ] [NPF] NPF tries to plan over bridges, through tunnels, over level crossings of other players. (glx)
14:12:17  <blathijs> that's the one I guess
14:12:29  <glx> yes
14:13:40  <Celestar> so can I remove that code bit?
14:14:36  <blathijs> yes
14:15:03  <blathijs> ooh, we've got an Axis type?
14:15:05  <blathijs> how nice :-)
14:15:53  <Celestar> blathijs: ok removing
14:17:17  <CIA-3> celestar * r4387 /trunk/npf.c:
14:17:17  <CIA-3> -Codechange: Use map accessors even for debugging purposes (npf).
14:17:17  <CIA-3> -Codechange: Removed unused code from NPF
14:17:21  <Celestar> note to self: rename SetGroundType to SetRoadGroundType.
14:17:52  <blathijs> :-)
14:18:00  <Celestar> 141 map accessors left.
14:18:12  <Celestar> in .c files
14:18:57  <blathijs> including the map accessor functions? Probably not :-)
14:18:59  <Darkvater> is NPF still making tiles bare when the debug-level is set high enough?
14:19:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: yes.
14:19:14  <Darkvater> that is very bad
14:19:27  <Celestar> only if npf debug level is high enough :P
14:19:27  <Darkvater> donnu how many times I kicked blathijs for it :)
14:20:10  <Celestar> we also have 12 map accessors in .h files left
14:20:20  <Celestar> (not counting the map accessors themselves)
14:25:32  <Celestar> where's Belugas_Gone ? :P
14:26:02  <glx> [15:07:13] <Belugas_Gone> have to move my butt to a customer's location :(
14:26:02  <glx> [15:07:29] <Belugas_Gone> Will be at the office in an hour or more...
14:26:11  <Celestar> ok.
14:26:36  <Celestar> .oO(We should move the loading of non-current savegames to oldloader.c)
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14:31:20  <Celestar> goto make_red;
14:31:25  <Celestar> make_red:
14:31:28  <blathijs> Darkvater: It's a pretty useful debug tool, though
14:31:31  <Celestar> if ((bit & m2) == 0) continue;
14:31:50  <glx> Celestar: check the rewrite of this part in tfc_newmap
14:32:07  <Celestar> glx: good idea
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14:33:24  <glx> accessors' names are different dut the idea is the same
14:33:50  <Celestar> it seems so yes.
14:33:59  <Darkvater> blathijs: yes but it should NOT change the tile-type
14:34:56  <Celestar> Darkvater: it doesn't?
14:35:02  <Darkvater> it changes it to bare
14:35:06  <Darkvater> which CAN desync MP games
14:35:09  <Celestar> only the ground type.
14:35:11  <blathijs> ah, yes
14:35:15  <blathijs> it can desync, yes
14:35:33  <Celestar> debug levels < 9 should not desync imho.
14:35:45  <Celestar> apart from the fact that RELEASE desync as well
14:35:55  <Celestar> glx: ah nice. will bear that in mind.
14:35:58  <blathijs> thing is, it's a first-line debug tool, not a level 9 debug tile ;-)
14:36:06  <blathijs> how do I tell we're in multiplayer?
14:36:15  <Celestar> if _networking I think
14:36:17  <blathijs> _network_game or something?
14:36:30  <blathijs> ah, yes
14:36:45  <blathijs> since it isn't really useful for multiplayer anyway
14:36:58  <blathijs> ie, NPF debugging is probably done local anyway
14:37:23  <Darkvater> blathijs: no, forget about that, it should not change the ground type at all ever
14:37:48  <glx> Darkvater: how can we see what it does then?
14:38:00  <blathijs> Darkvater: why not?
14:38:11  <Darkvater> because it's horribly ugly
14:38:13  <Celestar> WTF is unittest?
14:38:17  <Celestar> KUDr:
14:38:19  <glx> Darkvater: do you prefer a lot of red squares?
14:38:23  <blathijs> Darkvater: I could code some funky tile marking feature, but this is easier
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14:40:33  <Darkvater> glx: would probably be a lot better code-wise
14:40:49  <Darkvater> Celestar: small tests that test parts of your code independently for input and corner-cases
14:41:08  <Darkvater> so you instantly know that if one test fails that you broke something
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14:42:58  <blathijs> Darkvater: Still, I'm gonna commit the don't mow grass when networking
14:43:06  <blathijs> Since I'm not gonna code something more advanced forthis
14:43:17  <Celestar> Darkvater: er WHAT?
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14:44:49  <Darkvater> Celestar: unittest
14:45:10  <Celestar> Darkvater: I didn't understand your response
14:45:20  <Darkvater> Celestar: he. wikipedia it :)
14:45:50  *** Qball [] has quit ["leaving"]
14:46:01  <Celestar> No page with that title exists.
14:46:45  <Celestar> so how can I benchmark YaPF?
14:46:46  <Celestar> :)
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14:46:57  <Darkvater>
14:48:03  <Celestar> make: Circular unittest <- unittest dependency dropped.
14:48:07  *** Tobin [] has quit []
14:48:32  <glx> Celestar: sorry maybe I broke something
14:55:16  <CIA-3> glx * r4388 /branch/yapf/Makefile: [YAPF] - My previous commit broke unittest for linux
14:58:51  <Celestar> looks googo
14:58:53  <Celestar> good
14:59:00  <hylje> googol
14:59:25  <Celestar> this "D" is a funny language
14:59:38  <hylje> what about "E"?
14:59:45  <Celestar> dunno if that exists ;)
14:59:51  <blathijs> D?
14:59:59  <Celestar>
15:00:33  <blathijs> wtf are hpp files?
15:00:42  <glx> c++ header
15:00:45  <Celestar> headers for c++
15:02:05  <blathijs> ah, yes
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15:07:16  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
15:08:30  <CIA-3> matthijs * r4389 /trunk/npf.c: -Fix: [NPF] Don't mark tiles when debugging in multiplayer, this will cause desyncs.
15:08:50  <CIA-3> celestar * r4390 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: -Codechange: Upon merging elrails, one direct map access to the railtype went unnoticed...
15:09:12  <Celestar> hr hr
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15:10:31  <Sacro> morning all
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15:13:33  <Celestar> TL|Away: ping
15:13:44  <TL|Away> Celestar: pong, kind of
15:14:19  <Celestar> TL|Away: if bug #116 is not closed before 20:00CEST, we need to halt the nightly production.
15:14:57  <TL|Away> good luck in doing so
15:15:29  <Celestar> hm :P
15:15:32  <Celestar> ok
15:15:35  <Celestar> you need to halt it :P
15:15:36  <TL|Away> how long is this bug there?
15:15:41  <Celestar> TL|Away: since this morning
15:15:49  <TL|Away> then revert the buggy commit ;)
15:15:50  <TL|Away> haha
15:15:56  <TL|Away> Celestar: the nightlies aren't something that is supposed to be stable
15:16:01  <TL|Away> or something people should update to every night
15:16:06  <TL|Away> it are test-versions
15:16:06  <Celestar> true
15:16:09  <TL|Away> unstable releases
15:16:20  <TL|Away> and I think it is silly to go in all kind of ways to avoid a faulty nightly
15:16:23  <TL|Away> we had enough of those ;)
15:16:30  <TL|Away> but if you really want, we can of course disable cron
15:16:48  <Celestar> TL|Away: I'll see what I can do before that.
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15:19:34  <glx> ===> Compiling tunnelbridge_cmd.c
15:19:34  <glx> tunnelbridge_cmd.c: In function `DrawTile_TunnelBridge':
15:19:34  <glx> tunnelbridge_cmd.c:936: error: syntax error before '==' token
15:19:34  <glx> tunnelbridge_cmd.c:936: warning: empty body in an if-statement
15:19:34  <glx> make: *** [tunnelbridge_cmd.o] Error 1
15:19:52  <TL|Away> Celestar: I think glx just found the problem ;)
15:20:06  <Celestar> TL|Away: what problem?
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15:20:13  <TL|Away> .......
15:20:15  <TL|Away> oh my!
15:20:17  <TL|Away> Bad memory?
15:20:21  <TL|Away> faulty RAM?
15:20:23  <Celestar> damnit
15:20:35  <Celestar> er wait
15:20:38  <glx> Celestar: remove a )
15:21:36  <CIA-3> celestar * r4391 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: -Fix: faulty ")" in previous commit
15:23:14  <blathijs> Celestar: You did compile the code before committing, didn't you?
15:23:34  <CIA-3> celestar * r4392 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: -Codechange: Use water map accessors in bridge code
15:23:40  <Celestar> blathijs: yes.
15:23:51  <blathijs> then wth?
15:23:54  <Celestar> blathijs: then I had the source open in one window and the commit message in the other
15:24:02  <blathijs> ah
15:24:04  <blathijs> I see
15:24:09  <Celestar> which is not a good idea it seems.
15:24:48  <Jaraziah> see it this way, the more commits the faster we reach v0.5
15:25:07  <peter1138> the more commits the more changes ;p
15:25:21  <Jaraziah> :P that to...
15:26:57  <Jaraziah> Hows the monitoring going peter
15:31:34  <qball> 0.5 will it have peter's newstations?
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15:34:46  <Celestar> qball: yes.
15:34:53  <Celestar> and more.
15:34:54  <qball> cool
15:34:59  <qball> (bout time)
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15:47:00  <glx> Celestar: bug #116 is weird
15:47:12  <Celestar> is that so?
15:47:24  <hylje> you all are weird so whats the matter
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15:59:53  <KUDr_wrk> [16:40:18] <Celestar> KUDr: <- PONG
16:00:58  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: is there any kind of performance test/debugging/whatever for YaPF? it seems to work fine.
16:01:09  <KUDr_wrk> ~
16:01:13  <KUDr_wrk> console
16:01:27  <KUDr_wrk> there are times, open nodes, closed nodes
16:01:31  <KUDr_wrk> for npf
16:01:33  <glx> KUDr_wrk: yapf fails to use borders
16:01:34  <KUDr_wrk> and yapf
16:01:43  <KUDr_wrk> borders?
16:01:53  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: with -d yapf=4 or something?
16:02:02  <KUDr_wrk> no
16:02:03  <glx> the water tiles in map border
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16:02:33  <KUDr_wrk> glx: yes - NE and NW edges are disabled
16:02:49  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: only open console and shpuld see debug
16:02:56  <KUDr_wrk> no swicthes
16:03:23  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: a nice
16:03:37  <KUDr_wrk> Yapf type 0 = NPF
16:03:56  <KUDr_wrk> 1 - YAPF(12)
16:04:02  <KUDr_wrk> 2 - YAPF(4)
16:04:16  <glx> type 1 tries to go through land
16:04:17  <KUDr_wrk> (number) means number of nodes on each tile
16:04:31  <KUDr_wrk> glx: 1 should be the same as NPF
16:04:37  <KUDr_wrk> does the same
16:04:50  <KUDr_wrk> there is limit for number of searches
16:04:51  <glx> not on my test map
16:04:56  <KUDr_wrk> default = 10000
16:05:15  <Celestar> ok.
16:05:15  <KUDr_wrk> glx: upload this map somewhere please
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16:05:24  <Celestar> runs take up to 8ms.
16:05:38  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: depends on that limit
16:05:49  <KUDr_wrk> increase the limit and will take more
16:05:50  <Celestar> whatever is default
16:06:00  <KUDr_wrk> 10000 is default
16:06:03  <Celestar> hm ..
16:06:05  <Celestar> 16ms
16:06:15  <KUDr_wrk> which type?
16:06:28  <Celestar> 1
16:06:31  <KUDr_wrk> try 2
16:06:39  <Celestar> well
16:06:46  <KUDr_wrk> it covers 3x bigger area
16:06:47  <Celestar> 80% if runs are "0ms"
16:06:51  <KUDr_wrk> with the same limit
16:07:10  <KUDr_wrk> 0ms means very short distance
16:07:18  <Celestar> or very fast computer :P
16:07:30  <KUDr_wrk> I can change resolution to us
16:07:42  <glx> KUDr_wrk: <-- available when I'm online :)
16:07:56  <KUDr_wrk> but generally it is 5x faster on 10000 and 10x faster on limit 100000
16:08:03  <KUDr_wrk> glx: thanx
16:08:54  <Celestar> what do the numbers mean?
16:09:02  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: faster than what?
16:09:12  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: than NPF
16:09:22  <Jaraziah> cry...
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16:09:35  <KUDr_wrk> the number is max number of closed nodes
16:09:40  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: NPF is rather broken with ship
16:09:40  <KUDr_wrk> in Astar algo
16:09:48  <KUDr_wrk> no
16:09:57  <KUDr_wrk> there is "optimization"
16:10:02  <KUDr_wrk> this limit
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16:10:16  <KUDr_wrk> otherwise it can take minutes across long map
16:10:42  <KUDr_wrk> so it computes until it reaches the max number of closed nodes
16:10:55  <KUDr_wrk> then it takes the best one
16:11:22  <KUDr_wrk> so sometimes it can go in-land into blind channel-river
16:11:49  <Celestar> glx: the ship on that game needs up to 12ms for a PF run ?
16:11:50  <KUDr_wrk> and yapf 1 is now the same (at least very similar)
16:12:21  <KUDr_wrk> the value in config is: npf_max_search_nodes
16:12:34  <KUDr_wrk> but it is applied on new map only
16:12:43  <KUDr_wrk> as it is saved in savegame
16:12:50  <KUDr_wrk> |shit|
16:15:04  <KUDr_wrk> glx: yes - this is the NE border problem
16:15:15  <KUDr_wrk> I will look at it at home
16:15:33  <glx> looks like a bug for me :)
16:15:33  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: is it faster than the OLD PF? ;)
16:15:51  <KUDr_wrk> glx: yes, it can be treated as bug
16:16:16  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: no idea, but it had hard coded max distance
16:16:31  <KUDr_wrk> so its not a competition
16:18:27  <Celestar> I'm creating 100 ships and see what happens :)
16:18:45  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: good
16:19:02  <KUDr_wrk> I will create two more types today
16:19:12  <KUDr_wrk> with disabled 90deg turns
16:19:18  <KUDr_wrk> it was there
16:19:27  <KUDr_wrk> but NPF doeasn have it
16:19:42  <KUDr_wrk> so i removed it to be able to compare it better
16:20:15  <Celestar> HAHAHAH
16:20:16  <KUDr_wrk> glx: try to make NE channel 2 tiles wide and ship will go
16:20:27  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar:?
16:20:30  <glx> I know, I tried
16:21:19  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk:
16:21:19  <KUDr_wrk> ok, glx: thank you a lot
16:21:27  <KUDr_wrk> for that bug report
16:21:28  <Eddi|zuHause> iirc, the border tiles were never real water tiles
16:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> just looked like them
16:21:36  <KUDr_wrk> will try to fix it today
16:21:59  <KUDr_wrk> heh
16:22:04  <peter1138> overlapping ships? heh
16:22:10  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: it train on the water
16:22:17  <glx> the funny thing with this is when you let the ship go in this 1 tile channel (using type 0) then set type 1 or 2, it will go forward and backward continuously
16:23:31  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: how about that 90deg turns? Should they be disabled or not?
16:23:59  <stillunknown> depends what the turning radius is :-)
16:24:23  <Eddi|zuHause> some ships should be able to turn on the spot
16:24:41  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: optional
16:24:52  <Celestar> (yes, but for old savegames the need to be allowed)
16:25:00  <Celestar> ok 100 ships eat 10% CPU :o
16:25:14  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: 1 tile channels are dead for such ship
16:25:25  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: why?
16:25:51  <KUDr_wrk> they cant turn
16:26:00  <KUDr_wrk> to find another way
16:26:06  <KUDr_wrk> they need 3 tiles
16:26:14  <KUDr_wrk> non90deg
16:26:24  <Celestar> well, then they should not turn, but move to the end of the channel.
16:26:32  <Celestar> is there such a function/option?
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16:26:40  <KUDr_wrk> and when end is also 1 tile wide?
16:26:46  <KUDr_wrk> not now
16:26:57  <Celestar> then $USER_ERROR
16:27:02  <KUDr_wrk> i can do that @ evening
16:27:04  <KUDr_wrk> OK
16:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause> they turn around like trains maybe?
16:27:12  <Celestar> hm
16:27:23  <Celestar> 1000 ships would load this CPU
16:27:29  <KUDr_wrk> Eddi: yes
16:27:55  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: yes, it is without path caching
16:28:05  <KUDr_wrk> plain pathfinder
16:28:20  <Eddi|zuHause> not that this is actually any kind of realistic anyway ;)
16:28:22  <KUDr_wrk> so should i remember the path for ships?
16:28:31  <Celestar> with YAPF 2
16:28:35  <Celestar> with YAPF1 I need 90%
16:28:40  <Celestar> 70%
16:28:54  <stillunknown> maybe a dynamic range limit, make the pathfinder slightly worse if many ships are in extistance
16:28:55  <KUDr_wrk> YAPF2 seems to be more effective
16:29:01  <KUDr_wrk> one node is:
16:29:12  <KUDr_wrk> YAPF1: Tile + Trackdir
16:29:16  <Celestar> YAPF0 is normal pathfinding?
16:29:23  <KUDr_wrk> YAPF2: Tile + DiagDir
16:29:32  <KUDr_wrk> YAPF0 is NPF
16:29:40  <KUDr_wrk> or normal
16:29:42  <KUDr_wrk> yes
16:29:50  <Celestar> hm..
16:30:04  <KUDr_wrk> what NPF eats?
16:30:09  <Celestar> here, YAPF2 10%, NPF 25%, YAPF1 70%
16:30:23  <KUDr_wrk> crazy
16:30:45  <glx> so YAPF2 seems better than NPF
16:30:50  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar and times?
16:31:08  <KUDr_wrk> but both should be better
16:31:20  <Celestar> 1-2ms
16:31:24  <Celestar> on 2
16:31:32  <Celestar> 3-4ms on 1
16:31:48  <glx> YAPF1 is unable to find path on my test map
16:31:54  <Celestar> glx: yes.
16:32:02  <Celestar> how about a larger map?
16:32:08  <Celestar> or let me see.
16:32:12  <Celestar> I have a nice test :)
16:32:23  <KUDr_wrk> OK guys i will move my body home now
16:32:34  <KUDr_wrk> bbs (30 mins)
16:32:36  <Celestar> the DEATHTEST :P
16:32:47  <Jaraziah> o.0
16:33:40  <Celestar> with no path,
16:33:45  <Celestar> YAST2 35%
16:33:49  <Celestar> YAPF2 35%
16:33:54  <Celestar> YAPF1 80%
16:33:57  <Celestar> NPF 80%
16:34:57  <stillunknown> const byte _signal_along_trackdir[] = {
16:34:57  <stillunknown> 	0x80, 0x80, 0x80, 0x20, 0x40, 0x10, 0, 0,
16:34:57  <stillunknown> 	0x40, 0x40, 0x40, 0x10, 0x80, 0x20
16:34:57  <stillunknown> };
16:34:58  <Jaraziah> Celestar, maybe weird question. One of the players on my server asked if Night mode works.. i had to awser 'no idee never seen it' is there a 'Night' mode in it even ?
16:35:32  <stillunknown> could anyone interpretate this for me? (why are there so many values for example)?
16:35:37  <glx> Jaraziah: the answer is "no"
16:35:48  <Celestar> Jaraziah: there are NIGHT newgrfs
16:35:52  <Celestar> stillunknown: yes.
16:36:11  <Celestar> if you go in a certain TrackDir, it shows the valid signal for you.
16:36:15  <Jaraziah> okie dokie :)
16:36:18  <Celestar> (stored in m3)
16:36:27  <Celestar> stillunknown: but, I'm just rewriting it.
16:37:23  <stillunknown> aren't there too many for 8 directions of track?
16:38:00  <Celestar> 6 directions
16:38:04  <Celestar> 6 tracks
16:38:12  <Celestar> and each track can be used in 2 directions
16:38:14  <Celestar> makes 12.
16:38:35  <stillunknown> and the two 0's?
16:38:43  <Celestar> unused Trackdirs
16:38:44  <glx> trackdir 7 and 8 are for easy math
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16:39:16  <glx> so you can reverse trackdir using ^8
16:39:24  * peter1138 -> home
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16:40:23  <stillunknown> ^8 is shifting 8 positions for all byte declarations?
16:40:25  *** qball_ is now known as qball
16:41:21  <Darkvater> ^8 is Xor-ing with 8
16:41:21  <glx> no ^8 is xoring the bit 3
16:41:37  <Darkvater> >>, << is bitshifting
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16:41:54  <Celestar> hm :S
16:42:26  <Celestar> why do I get YAPF console output with YAPF disabled? :o
16:42:26  * stillunknown goes to look what the difference between xor and or is
16:42:58  <Celestar> OR: 1+1=1, XOR 1+1=0
16:43:05  <Darkvater> stillunknown: or is a simple inclusive or. If either ones or both are 1 the output is one
16:43:18  <Darkvater> stillunknown: with xor the output is one if the the two values are different
16:43:28  <stillunknown> i still don't see the purpose of the 8th 0 bit
16:43:38  <Celestar> easy:
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16:44:05  <Celestar> (a^b)^b=a
16:44:23  <stillunknown> lol
16:44:32  <Celestar> so you can use XOR to toggle stuff.
16:44:46  <stillunknown> what a strange way to denounce xor
16:45:20  <Celestar> there are processors that do hardly anything but XOR:
16:45:24  <Celestar> mainly RAID chips.
16:46:30  <stillunknown> so basicly you're doing: (this will not be c style, but you'll understand
16:46:59  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: it seems performance is worsening over time
16:47:56  <stillunknown> for (( i=1; ${#_signal_along_trackdir[]}; i++ )) do
16:48:15  <stillunknown>  for (( j=1; ${#_signal_along_trackdir[]}; j++ )) do
16:48:48  <stillunknown> if (( variable1 == variable2 && i != j ))
16:48:49  <stillunknown> then
16:48:55  <Celestar> ?
16:49:00  <stillunknown> valid = variable2
16:49:04  <stillunknown> fi
16:49:07  <stillunknown> doen
16:49:09  <stillunknown> *done
16:49:12  <stillunknown> done
16:49:15  <stillunknown> that's a xor?
16:49:23  <stillunknown> in the way you use it?
16:49:32  <glx> xor is xor :)
16:49:56  <Celestar> in the way we use it, every number from 0 to 7 is gets 8 added and any number from 8 to 15 gets 8 substracted.
16:50:26  <Celestar> BAH
16:50:35  <Celestar> the console needs more CPU than YAPF with 100 ships :P
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16:51:52  <Celestar> .oO(is A* an optimal pathfinder for ships?)
16:53:22  <stillunknown> anyone know a c tutorial that has a good explanation of byte declerations, because obviously i'm missing something :-)
16:53:33  <Celestar> hm?
16:54:28  <Darkvater> stillunknown: you mean bit :)
16:55:26  <stillunknown> i still don't understand how a 0 can helo you differentiate between anything, but i'll let it sink in
16:55:29  <stillunknown> *help
16:56:33  <stillunknown> then again 0x80, 0x40 means little to me as well
16:56:52  <Celestar> 0x80 == 128
16:57:06  <Celestar> it'S just hexadecimal representation.
16:57:18  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: something is weird
16:57:36  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I let a game run, and I start with 8% CPU usage, now I'm up to 50%.
16:58:28  <Celestar> and the load average is very high.
16:58:45  <Celestar> ...
16:58:54  <Celestar> I suppose YAPF doesn't thread does it ..
17:00:05  <stillunknown> 0x80 == 128 <-- 128 is a 16^4, where's the 4?
17:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there was talk about lakes earlier today... how about a "lake/river" tile that works like a canal tile, just has a "natural" shoreline?
17:00:32  <Celestar> 0x80 is 80 hexadecimal.
17:00:48  <Celestar> "0x" means hexadecimal
17:01:08  <glx> 0x80 = 1000 0000 in binary
17:01:15  <KUDr> back
17:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> 128=16^4? where do you get that from?
17:01:44  <glx> 128=2^7
17:01:53  <Celestar> 16*16*16*16 that 16 to the 3
17:01:54  <Celestar> 4
17:01:55  <Celestar> *
17:01:58  <stillunknown> in hex each bit has 16 states, so 1000
17:02:00  <Celestar> 65536
17:02:11  <stillunknown> the 4 comes from the 4th position of the 1
17:02:44  <KUDr> <Celestar> why do I get YAPF console output with YAPF disabled? :o <- NPF stats
17:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i see a mixture of ^ (XOR) and ^ (Power) coming
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17:03:36  <blathijs> stillunknown: actually, 0x80 == 8 x 16 + 0 x 1
17:03:39  <stillunknown> correction 10000, i forgot 16^0 bit :-)
17:03:53  <stillunknown> sorry, i use ^ as power
17:03:56  <blathijs> it's just accidental that it's 16 ^ 4 I think
17:04:10  <blathijs> hmm
17:04:17  <blathijs> it's not even 16 ^ 4 :-)
17:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway... 16^4 is far from 128
17:04:36  <Celestar> 16^4 is 2^16
17:04:39  <Celestar> so 65536
17:04:59  <Eddi|zuHause> and 16 xor 4 is 20 ;)
17:05:06  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: performance seems to take a hit when a toggle between 0, 1 and 2 often.
17:05:12  <stillunknown> not used to hex, but it would be 80
17:05:22  <stillunknown> duh :-|
17:05:29  <Celestar> just like 20 xor 4 is 16
17:06:00  <Eddi|zuHause> if the bits of a and b do not overlap, then a XOR b is the same as a+b
17:06:17  <Celestar>
17:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> where + means arithmetic +
17:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause> + is even more overloaded than ^ ;)
17:07:41  <Celestar> XOR is addition without carry
17:07:56  *** tokai|ni [] has joined #openttd
17:08:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, XOR is the addition in (F_2)^n
17:08:17  <Celestar> XOR is often use to clear a register for example :)
17:08:26  <Celestar> because a^a = 0
17:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause> where F_2 is the Galois Field with 2 elements
17:08:33  <stillunknown> a xor outputs 1 or 0, i don't see how 7^8=1 != 15
17:08:55  <Celestar> stillunknown: anything in the computer output 1 or 0.
17:09:06  <Celestar> 7^8 = 15
17:09:07  <Celestar> :)
17:09:18  <Celestar> because 0111 ^ 1000 = 1111
17:09:44  <stillunknown> (just read that part, i'm not used to binary operations)
17:10:02  <Eddi|zuHause> write the bitmasks of 7 and 8 under each other
17:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause> 0111
17:10:06  <Eddi|zuHause> 1000
17:10:19  <Eddi|zuHause> and now count the number of 1's in each column
17:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause> (where 2=0)
17:10:28  <stillunknown> some cpu's have fpu's, do they output only 0 and 1 as well ?:-)
17:10:28  <Eddi|zuHause> you get
17:10:30  <Eddi|zuHause> 1111
17:10:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they do... only large numbers of 1's and 0's
17:11:19  <Celestar> 32 or 64 mostly
17:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Intel FPUs use 80 bit i believe
17:11:52  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: most compilers don't however.
17:12:09  <Celestar> for most compilers, long double == double.
17:12:16  <Eddi|zuHause> that was not the question ;)
17:12:25  <blathijs> stillunknown: a floating point number is just a integer together with the position of the decimal point
17:12:44  <Celestar> blathijs: nice way to put it :P
17:13:34  <stillunknown> is the map array actually one array?
17:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that is a pretty vague abstraction ;)
17:14:11  <Celestar> it is an array of structs.
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17:14:42  <Eddi|zuHause> IEEE floating point numbers have a little more than ints with position... they have signed zero, infinity, "Not a Number" (NaN)
17:15:24  <Celestar> afaik, not all have signed zero
17:15:30  <Celestar> at least not all archs have it
17:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the IEEE standard defines it
17:16:23  <stillunknown>  /** Bitfield corresponding to Track */
17:16:23  <stillunknown> typedef enum TrackBits {
17:16:23  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_X     = 1U << TRACK_X,
17:16:23  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_Y     = 1U << TRACK_Y,
17:16:23  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_UPPER = 1U << TRACK_UPPER,
17:16:24  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_LOWER = 1U << TRACK_LOWER,
17:16:26  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_LEFT  = 1U << TRACK_LEFT,
17:16:28  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_RIGHT = 1U << TRACK_RIGHT,
17:16:30  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_CROSS = TRACK_BIT_X     | TRACK_BIT_Y,
17:16:32  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_HORZ  = TRACK_BIT_UPPER | TRACK_BIT_LOWER,
17:16:34  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_VERT  = TRACK_BIT_LEFT  | TRACK_BIT_RIGHT,
17:16:38  <glx> STOP
17:16:46  <stillunknown> 	TRACK_BIT_MASK  = 0x3FU
17:16:48  <stillunknown> } TrackBits;
17:16:50  <stillunknown> what do those U
17:16:52  <stillunknown> 's
17:16:54  <stillunknown>  mean?
17:16:55  <glx> unsigned
17:16:55  <Eddi|zuHause> spam!!
17:17:01  <Celestar> "U" means the number is unsigned.
17:17:15  <Eddi|zuHause> wether the arcitectures handle the standard correctly is an entirely different chapter :P
17:17:16  <glx> stillunknown: never do that again :)
17:18:34  <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: That's just special interpretation of a few values ;-p
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17:18:59  <blathijs> hey, we've got extra trackbits?
17:20:54  <Celestar> blathijs: yah,
17:21:04  <Celestar> one is used for bridges I think
17:21:42  <stillunknown> what do track bits do, because the bitshifting indicates some kind of relation to length of a trackpiece with a rotation of 0
17:23:20  <glx> stillunknown: example: you have a trackdir 6, then corresponding trackdir bit is 2^6
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17:23:43  <Vornicus> the track bits describe which specific parts of a tile have track on them.
17:23:47  <glx> btw 6 is a bad example
17:23:57  <blathijs> heh
17:23:58  <blathijs> indeed
17:24:11  <Vornicus> 6 is a bad example because there's six track bits, and they're numbered 0-5.
17:24:22  <glx> I know :)
17:24:40  * Vornicus was explaining to stillunknown.
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17:26:00  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4393 /branch/yapf/water_cmd.c: [YAPF] Fix: GetTileTrackStatus_Water() now returns correct values when tile is on NE or NW map edge
17:26:44  <stillunknown> so 0<TRACKBIT_X<5, what does TRACK_X do?
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17:27:20  <blathijs> KUDr: Interesting solution :-)
17:27:55  <blathijs> KUDr: all other pathfinders have some artificial check for this I think
17:28:07  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4394 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp: [YAPF] Fix: YAPF behavior on NE and NW map edge (thanks to glx for reporting the bug) - uses fixed GetTileTrackStatus_Water() [r4393]
17:28:42  <KUDr> blathijs: yes, but this is only the correct solution
17:29:01  <KUDr> fix it where the problem source is
17:29:10  <KUDr> not to fix consequencies
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17:30:04  <blathijs> KUDr: yes, indeed
17:30:10  <blathijs> bah, I should have thought about that ;-p
17:30:21  <Celestar> TL|Away: when is the nightly created?
17:30:33  <glx> blathijs: you missed a lot of things in npf :)
17:30:57  <Eddi|zuHause> 20:00CEST
17:31:03  <glx> !time
17:31:04  <jmp_ghli> >glx> Wed Apr 12 19:31:35 CEST 2006
17:31:14  <Celestar> so I have 28 minutes to fix the bug :P
17:32:14  <Vornicus> stillunknown: track_x is 0, track_y is 1...
17:32:19  <glx> Celestar: I've done some test and it seems the train on the bridge and the one under have the same z_pos, but I don't know why
17:32:32  <Vornicus> track_bit_* are powers of two.
17:32:33  <stillunknown> TRACK_BIT_X     = 1U << TRACK_X <-- itsn't this a strange way to store the coordinate
17:32:49  <glx> it's not a coordinate
17:33:08  <stillunknown> length?
17:33:14  <Celestar> yes glx
17:33:23  <glx> it's a way to pack all tracks in one byte
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17:34:28  <Vornicus> It's not a length either.
17:34:52  <Vornicus> What it is is a little flag (this stuff is in each tile) that says "this tile has a track in this part of itself"
17:37:06  <stillunknown> i'll take your word for it(because i don't how the size and position of one tile is dealt with)
17:37:19  <Vornicus> It's a bigass array.
17:37:28  <Vornicus> Each tile has its own place in the array.
17:37:38  <Vornicus> This stuff is stored per tile, and all the tiles are the same size.
17:37:49  <glx> stillunknown: check docs/landscape.html
17:41:07  <blathijs> stillunknown: Tracks, trackdirs and trackdirbits are all about tracks on a given tile
17:41:25  <stillunknown> thank you glx, it just makes me wonder, why isn't a m6, m7, etc added
17:41:27  <Vornicus>
17:41:31  <blathijs> If you have some rail tile, you need to be able to keep track of the tracks on it
17:42:04  <Celestar> hmm ....
17:42:07  <Celestar> 16 minutes
17:42:32  <blathijs> stillunknown: There are 6 different tracks per tile: One along the X and Y axis of the map (diagonal on your screen), two horziontal on your screen, two vertical
17:42:47  <blathijs> stillunknown: These are the TRACK_X, TRACK_Y, etc constants
17:42:48  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: what is 16 minutes?
17:42:51  <stillunknown> i mean m6, etc to add extra data
17:43:04  <blathijs> stillunknown: well, we already added some
17:43:15  <Vornicus> m6 etc would break the savegame format forever.
17:43:22  <glx> yes _m[].extra
17:43:24  <blathijs> stillunknown: but you don't want to add more and more data, since it takes up quite some space
17:43:55  <stillunknown> and there's more efficient way of storing it?
17:44:43  <Vornicus> Depending on what it is, yes.
17:45:05  <Vornicus> You don't add stuff to tiles to give an industry production, because industries are few and far between.
17:45:38  <Vornicus> You don't add stuff to tiles to help the pathfinder, because unless you're absolutely nutbar you're not going to cover every single tile with track.
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17:46:12  <Celestar> MiHaMiX: to the nightly
17:46:24  <Vornicus> --and indeed there's more efficient ways of storing pathfinder data anyway.
17:46:37  <Vornicus> ways that don't think about individual tiles.
17:46:52  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: ahh
17:46:53  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4395 /branch/yapf/ship_cmd.c: [YAPF} Fix: NPF stats in debug builds display 0 instead of node numbers
17:47:05  <glx> Celestar: do you know when this bug appeared ?
17:47:52  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4396 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp: [YAPF] Fix: memory leak in performance timer
17:49:13  <Celestar> yes
17:49:18  <Celestar> 4363 glx
17:49:42  <glx> :)
17:51:11  <Celestar> 4373
17:51:13  <Celestar> sorry
17:51:16  <Celestar> ok I have a quick-fix
17:51:38  <MiHaMiX> hmm
17:51:47  <MiHaMiX> letás do a reallz quick string commit
17:51:51  <MiHaMiX> let's
17:51:57  <MiHaMiX> s/z/y/
17:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> s/z/y/?? use different keyboard layout?
17:52:48  <hylje> azerty?
17:53:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no... qwertz usually causes y/z mistakes ;)
17:53:35  <Celestar> !time
17:53:35  <jmp_ghli> >Celestar> Wed Apr 12 19:54:06 CEST 2006
17:53:54  <CIA-3> miham * r4397 /trunk/lang/hungarian.txt: [WT2] Commiting hungarian changes
17:53:58  <Eddi|zuHause> stretching it to the last second? ;)
17:54:11  <Celestar> WORKING ON IT
17:54:14  <MiHaMiX> quertz
17:54:32  <MiHaMiX> coool, it's worked :)
17:54:59  <MiHaMiX> ok folks, let's wait for the nightlies :D
17:55:13  <MiHaMiX> 4minutes 40 seconds
17:55:34  <Celestar> how much in sync is that clock?
17:56:00  <stillunknown> 4:00 remaining
17:56:04  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a quartz clock? ;)
17:56:33  <glx> [19:53:47] <jmp_ghli> >Celestar> Wed Apr 12 19:54:06 CEST 2006
17:56:51  <MiHaMiX> Eddi|zuHause: :P
17:57:07  <MiHaMiX> Wed Apr 12 19:57:02 CEST 2006
17:59:00  <CIA-3> celestar * r4398 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: -Fix: Quick and Dirty solution for FS#116. Just for the nightlies
17:59:03  <Celestar> PHEW
17:59:18  <Celestar> !time
17:59:18  <jmp_ghli> >Celestar> Wed Apr 12 19:59:49 CEST 2006
17:59:21  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: is it compile?
17:59:34  <Celestar> we'll know soon :P
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17:59:41  <Celestar> ok guys.
17:59:42  *** |MeusH| is now known as MeusH
17:59:44  <MeusH> hello
17:59:45  <Celestar> enough for me today
17:59:47  <Celestar> going home.
17:59:52  <MeusH> cya Celestar
17:59:52  <MiHaMiX> Celestar: bye :)
17:59:58  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: hi :)
18:00:00  <MeusH> Does anyone here use TortoiseSVN?
18:00:04  <blathijs> cya, Celestar
18:00:10  <MeusH> How can I prevent it from updating all branches?
18:00:27  <MeusH> i.e. I'd like it download just /trunk/ directory
18:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause> just click on the branch you want to update?
18:00:59  <glx> MeusH: what url did you set for the checkout ?
18:01:16  <MeusH> svn://
18:01:29  <MeusH> oh, I should use
18:01:33  <glx> yes
18:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause> just rightclick on the trunk directory
18:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and click update there...
18:02:29  <Eddi|zuHause> then it just takes the updates from the trunk
18:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause> and leaves the other ones unchanged
18:02:40  <MeusH> thanks :)
18:02:43  <MeusH> thanks a lot
18:06:17  <Eddi|zuHause> urgs... something conflicts with the speed signals...
18:06:23  <KUDr> hmm: [19:05:06] <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: performance seems to take a hit when a toggle between 0, 1 and 2 often. <<-- I can't reproduce it
18:06:51  <MeusH> Something is wrong with my MSVC++6.0
18:07:01  <MeusH> It crashes when loading .dsw file
18:07:11  <MeusH> so I can't even try to compile
18:07:24  <KUDr> MeusH: yes - M$ is the wrong thing on it
18:07:40  <MeusH> progress bar shows 100%, I see "loading dependencies" and it crashes
18:07:53  <MeusH> however, before reinstalling windows, it was working properly
18:08:01  <MeusH> and I've got no idea what's wrong
18:08:01  <KUDr> MeusH: on sources from trunk?
18:08:14  <MeusH> yes
18:08:16  <MeusH> strgen.dsw doesn't work, too
18:08:31  <MeusH> I'd like to find some .dsw to check if it's OpenTTD or MS
18:08:43  <KUDr> create another one
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18:09:17  <KUDr> and add the ottd projects into it
18:09:33  <MeusH> allright
18:09:35  <MeusH> good idea
18:10:56  <CIA-3> belugas * r4399 /trunk/ (industry_cmd.c industry_map.h): CodeChange : Add and make use of [G|S]etIndustryAnimationLoop accessors.
18:11:41  <MeusH> so, creating .dsw went fine
18:11:55  <MeusH> It crashed when I was importing .dsp (project file)
18:12:04  <KUDr> which one
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18:12:29  <MeusH> trunk/openttd.dsp
18:12:48  <KUDr> will try it
18:12:52  <MeusH> thanks
18:13:28  <MeusH> oh, when loading .dsp directly into MSVC, it works fine. I mean, it asks me if I want to load .dsw or cancel operation
18:13:37  <MeusH> loading .dsw means crash
18:13:52  <KUDr> hmm
18:14:19  <KUDr> here it works fine
18:14:28  <KUDr> so it must be on your side
18:14:59  <MiHaMiX> who want r4400? :))
18:15:19  <KUDr> hehe
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18:16:50  <MeusH> I'll try r3059 (at least I know once it worked for me)
18:17:29  <MeusH> damn, it's updating scenarios right now :|
18:17:42  <MeusH> hey devs, it has been said that scenarios will not be in the trunk
18:18:13  <MeusH> ohh silly me, ignore above message :(
18:19:41  <Darkvater> Celestar: ..
18:20:08  <Darkvater> Celestar: you really don't, even SHOULDN'T commit ugly hacks just to get the nightly working. That is not the purpose of the nightlies
18:20:47  <Belugas> Yeah...  4400... I leave that for real devs :)  Restraining myself hehehe...
18:21:08  <MiHaMiX> who knows the TV serie "The 4400" ?
18:21:21  <MiHaMiX> we should dedicate the next commit to them :DDD
18:23:57  <MeusH> hmm I'll reinstall MSVC because I recently uninstalled WinXP SP2
18:24:09  <MeusH> This damn thing messed with my internet settings
18:24:27  <MeusH> all OSs are screwed up
18:25:18  <MeusH> these user friendly (windows) are so stupid, and these better systems (linux) require hours of learning and megabytes of data to compile a simple thing like OpenTTD
18:26:44  *** Wolfensteijn [] has joined #openttd
18:28:09  <MeusH> brb
18:28:14  *** MeusH [] has quit ["Goodbye"]
18:29:01  <peter1138> lol
18:30:37  *** stavrosg [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:37:20  <izhirahider> lol
18:40:27  <Vornicus> Neal Stephenson describes the various OSes as cars, and describes Linux as a tank.  The only problem?  I don't know how to drive a tank.
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18:42:53  <Tron> compiling ottd on FreeBSD isn't really hard: cd /usr/ports/games/openttd && make install clean
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18:50:04  <MeusH> hello
18:50:40  <hylje> if linux is a tank, *BSD should be a F-22
18:51:10  <Tron> ?
18:52:03  * MiHaMiX is looking for someone who used to use and volunteer to test WT2
18:52:27  <Tron> "guinea pig" is the term you're looking for
18:52:53  <MiHaMiX> ??
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18:53:59  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4400 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_ship.cpp: [YAPF] Code cleanup: each YAPF based pathfinder has now its own static method ChooseShipTrack()
18:54:44  <MiHaMiX> kudr taken r4400 :)
18:54:52  <Tron> in german it's "Versuchskaninchen", direct translation would be something like "test rabbit"
18:55:08  <MiHaMiX> ahh
18:55:26  <izhirahider> that rules me out
18:56:00  <blathijs> MiHaMiX: r4444 is way better :-)
18:56:12  <hylje> 4567
18:56:32  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4401 /branch/yapf/ (15 files in 3 dirs): Sync with trunk (4369:4400)
18:56:35  <MeusH> MiHaMiX I can test WT2, altough I did not use former translator
18:56:55  <Tron> MiHaMiX: what's the hungarian term?
18:57:26  <Tron> %svn log -r 1337
18:57:26  <Tron> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
18:57:26  <Tron> r1337 | tron | 2005-01-03 13:56:22 +0100 (Mo, 03 Jan 2005) | 3 lines
18:57:27  <Tron> ^^
18:57:51  <MiHaMiX> Tron: "próbababa" maybe
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18:58:06  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: ok, let's see then :)
18:58:19  <Tron> maybe?
18:58:25  <MiHaMiX> blathijs: well, you maybe don't know the series 'The 4400'
18:58:36  <Tron> you're hungarian, you should know!
18:59:18  <MiHaMiX> Tron: I can't recall any particular term for testers. Próbababa is the plastic human body used to stand at shopwindows wearing different clothes
18:59:34  <peter1138> dummy
18:59:37  <Vornicus> mannequin?
18:59:56  <MeusH> yeah manekin the dude
19:00:09  <XeryusTC> MiHaMiX: how do you call crash test dummies then?
19:00:24  <Belugas> XeryusTC : a band :)
19:00:30  <hylje> band names are not translated!
19:00:32  <hylje> generally
19:00:38  <XeryusTC> Belugas: that's right :)
19:00:41  <KUDr> "test rabbit" = kiserleti nyul
19:00:47  <MiHaMiX> aaaaaaaaaaaa
19:00:49  <peter1138> hmm hmm hmm
19:00:51  <MiHaMiX> really :)
19:00:52  <MeusH> MiHaMiX: does "baba" mean "female" or "grandma"?
19:00:58  <MiHaMiX> kísérleti nyúl
19:01:01  <KUDr> virgin
19:01:02  <hylje> me baba ^^
19:01:07  <MiHaMiX> this is a definitive term for test rabbit :D
19:01:07  <XeryusTC> but i meant the crash test dummies they put in a car and then drive the car into a concrete block
19:01:09  <hylje> me eat potals
19:01:11  <MeusH> cool
19:01:14  <hylje> me want itamz
19:01:24  <hylje> me whirl ^^^
19:01:27  <MiHaMiX> KUDr: how did you know this?? :))
19:01:35  <hylje> okay enough korean diablo impersonation
19:01:40  <KUDr> my wife is hungarian
19:01:42  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: baba mens little child :)
19:01:51  <MiHaMiX> KUDr: ahh, send her to my greeting :D
19:02:17  <KUDr> baba small child but also play toy
19:02:40  <KUDr> MiHaMiX: thanx - delivered
19:02:58  <MiHaMiX> MeusH: so, PM :)
19:03:23  <MeusH> okay
19:04:00  <MiHaMiX>
19:04:21  <MiHaMiX> the situation is a bit scary... the river Tisza is going to flood us :-(
19:04:57  <hylje> omg zerg rush kekeke ?
19:05:16  <MiHaMiX> hylje: parse error.
19:05:32  <CIA-3> tron * r4402 /trunk/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: Fix a faulty entry in the table for slopes under bridges, remove a now unnecessary test which hid the faulty entry till now and undo r4398 (don't do this!)
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19:06:19  <stillunknown> would it be resource consuming to have a 2048x2048 matrix with each element containing an int32?
19:06:54  <blathijs> MiHaMiX: yes, I do, but still I find 4444 cooler ;-)
19:07:22  <MiHaMiX> blathijs: ok :) I must admin that 4444 looks nicer, but 4400 is somewhat rounder :)
19:08:00  <blathijs> true
19:08:04  <stillunknown> (assuming 90% of the matrix will only have one bit)
19:10:35  <stillunknown> forgot it
19:11:46  <Sionide>
19:11:51  <Sionide> i want one! <_<
19:12:20  <blathijs> stillunknown: yes, it would
19:12:48  <blathijs> it would take 2^11 * 2^11 * 4 bytes == 2 ^ 24 bytes == 16 MB
19:13:28  <Vornicus> The current map array is 7 bytes long or 28MB for a full-size map.
19:13:43  <stillunknown> i figured that out too, i was thinking of ways to reduce the size of the map array
19:14:11  <Tron> Vornicus: it's 7 for very small values of 8
19:14:11  <Vornicus> There isn't much you can do to reduce the size of the map array.  All seven bytes are used.
19:14:28  <Vornicus> ...It's 7 in the landscape thingy.
19:14:40  <Tron> it's 8
19:15:09  <Tron> you can trust me, i'm the one who fiddles with the map structure most often
19:15:20  <Vornicus> okay.  What's the 8th byte used for then?
19:15:39  <stillunknown> is it possible to make a matrix style storage, but leave it 90% empty
19:15:41  <Tron> one of the attriubtes - m2 - isn't a byte
19:15:51  <Vornicus> right, I see that.
19:15:56  <stillunknown> but still be able to store matrix[n.m]
19:15:59  <Vornicus> But there's only 6 attributes.
19:16:06  <Vornicus> stillunknown: no.
19:16:11  <Tron> only if 6 equals 7
19:16:21  <Tron> typedef struct Tile {
19:16:21  <Tron>   byte type_height;
19:16:21  <Tron>   byte m1;
19:16:21  <Tron>   uint16 m2;
19:16:22  <Tron>   byte m3;
19:16:24  <Tron>   byte m4;
19:16:26  <Tron>   byte m5;
19:16:28  <Tron>   byte extra;
19:16:29  <Vornicus> but there's only six attributes listed.
19:16:30  <Tron> } Tile;
19:16:34  <Tron> 7
19:16:38  <Tron> count the lines
19:16:45  * XeryusTC sees 7
19:16:51  <Vornicus> I'm looking at doc/landscape_grid.html
19:17:00  <Tron> rule 1: documentation lies
19:17:04  <glx> so 8 bytes because uint16
19:17:15  <Vornicus> But this is why I'm asking what the seventh thing is used for.
19:17:16  <XeryusTC> doc is always outdated *points @ openttd.gpmi*
19:17:28  <Vornicus> Because it's not listed.
19:17:30  <Tron> only 58 bits of the 8 bytes are saved, though
19:18:14  <Tron> the upper 6 bits of the extra attribute aren't saved
19:18:34  <glx> those bits are unused
19:18:45  <Vornicus> So what's the lower 2 bits for then?
19:18:46  <stillunknown> if a tile is empty, will all bytes still be ocupied?
19:18:51  <stillunknown> (with dummies)
19:18:54  <Vornicus> define "empty"
19:19:00  <stillunknown> just ground
19:19:05  <stillunknown> one or two bytes used
19:19:13  <stillunknown> to define form and type
19:19:20  <stillunknown> and owner
19:19:40  <glx> yes but a tile has fixed storage size, whatever can be on it
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19:19:58  <Vornicus> We'd lose performance making it a sparse matrix.
19:20:42  <Vornicus> because too often we need to talk about an item by its coordinates, and with an array we get constant time access to an object by coordinates.
19:20:53  <stillunknown> then what is going keep the new map array small, but still expandable?
19:21:34  <glx> which new map array?
19:21:36  <Tron> 1 or 2 bytes for clear tiles? clear tiles use 34bits
19:21:46  <Tron> 30 if it's not a farm field
19:22:42  <stillunknown> the new map array scheduled for 0.5 or 0.6
19:22:53  <stillunknown> (which is a long way from now i know)
19:23:25  <Vornicus> it will be, um.  bigger.
19:23:31  <glx> stillunknown: let's finish removal of all direct map access first
19:23:31  <stillunknown> (otherwise i don't see why just expanding the map array won't do the trick)
19:23:33  <Vornicus> if it needs to be.
19:24:14  <stillunknown> is everything being moved to a group of functions who deal with acces?
19:24:40  <Vornicus> yes.
19:24:59  <Vornicus> But this doesn't let us save space; the performance of the game requires constant-time access.
19:25:21  <peter1138> is space even a problem? heh
19:25:35  <glx> only for old machines
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19:25:57  <peter1138> are there many people with less than 256MB memory these days?
19:26:19  <XeryusTC> peter1138: you might get in trouble when running a dedicated server and a client on the same machine
19:26:27  <peter1138> i do anyway
19:26:32  <peter1138> memory isn't the problem for me, heh
19:27:24  <XeryusTC> there are still people that think they can run ottd on a 133mhz pentium with 32mb ram ;)
19:27:31  <stillunknown> @Vornicus: but then you can change the functions without breaking the entire game
19:27:34  <peter1138> ttdpatch is for them ;p
19:28:05  <glx> ttdpatch is slower than ottd on my PII 233
19:28:34  <Vornicus> Yes, but you can't change the functions too much.
19:29:11  <Vornicus> You still need to read the data essentially as written in the savegame, and you still need need NEED need need to have constant-time access.
19:30:23  <Tron> it isn't as much about changing as about easily being able to figure out what happens where
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19:31:20  <Vornicus> So Tron, what are the two used Extra bits used for?
19:32:19  <peter1138> some bollocks about trees in the desert climate
19:32:27  <Belugas> Get and Set the type of trpical zone, Vornicus : tile.h:117..133
19:32:48  <Belugas> [S|G]etTropicZone
19:37:17  <Belugas> damn... forgot what i was doing  o_O
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19:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause> then it wasn't important
19:39:40  <peter1138> yeah
19:41:32  <Belugas> Je vous emm....
19:41:38  <Belugas> Hem...
19:41:44  <Belugas> If you say so :)
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19:41:53  <glx> Belugas: reste poli :D
19:42:25  <Belugas> ben quoi???  Can't I have a little fun now and then?  Hehehe
19:42:39  <peter1138> no
19:42:44  <peter1138> never
19:43:05  <Vornicus> aha
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19:56:47  <Belugas> Yes, peter1138.  We are slaves serving the users heheheh
19:57:53  *** dmitr [i=dmitr@] has joined #openttd
19:58:22  <dmitr> hello, how can i set map size on dedicated server in linux???
19:58:33  <DaleStan> vi openttd.cfg
19:58:47  <dmitr> thee is no option like map size
19:59:49  <glx> map_x = 6
19:59:49  <glx> map_y = 6
19:59:49  <glx> means 64*64
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20:00:52  <dmitr> hmm, and how to calculate the size?
20:00:58  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:01:02  <dmitr> 9,9 is 512x512 ?
20:01:28  <glx> yes
20:01:44  <glx> 512 = 2^9
20:01:51  <dmitr> ok ,thx.
20:01:56  <CIA-3> belugas * r4403 /trunk/ (station_cmd.c station_map.h): CodeChange : Add GetStationGfx and make use of [G|S]etStationGfx accessors. Also, use GetStationGfx instead of directly accessing the map for functions in station_map.h
20:02:55  <Belugas> wow!  Station_cmd.c is map access free :)
20:03:55  *** dmitr [i=dmitr@] has left #openttd []
20:04:22  <MiHaMiX> grat:)
20:04:25  <MiHaMiX> great :)
20:06:38  <XeryusTC> gratz
20:08:22  <stillunknown> if anyone's working on the floating trains going under bridge bug
20:08:33  *** sk [] has joined #openttd
20:08:46  <stillunknown> the train thinks it's on the bridge, because it's obeying the speed limit
20:09:07  *** _Red [] has joined #openttd
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20:15:56  <stillunknown> ignore that, that's not a trunk flaw
20:18:08  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit ["Whoopsy"]
20:18:36  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away]
20:20:55  *** |VillageIdiot| [] has quit ["Leaving"]
20:33:11  <CIA-3> belugas * r4404 /trunk/station_map.h: Reverted part of r4403. GetRailStationAxis need assertion on IsRailwayStation. Thanks glx for spotting it
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20:34:31  <SimonRC> Is there a fix for "Can't Get There From Here" around anywhere?
20:35:05  <CIA-3> miham * r4405 /trunk/lang/ (french.txt polish.txt):
20:35:05  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 automatic commit
20:35:05  <CIA-3> [french] 1 string has been fixed by Belugas
20:35:05  <CIA-3> [polish] 36 strings has been fixed, 3 strings has been updated by meush
20:37:04  <Belugas> My name appears on commits quite a lot today o_O
20:37:19  <MiHaMiX> indeed :D
20:37:35  <glx> wow WT2 says who does what
20:38:01  <MiHaMiX> glx: yes, since every information is recorded in DB :)
20:38:26  <glx> good if you want to slap the one who made a mistake :)
20:38:30  <MiHaMiX> glx: even changes in english.txt which doesn't cause layout change :)
20:38:37  <MiHaMiX> glx: lol :D
20:39:21  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: 1 string has, 36 strings *have* ;-)
20:39:40  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: ok, thanks
20:39:52  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: i'm too tired probably because it slipped my mind
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20:47:17  <Bjarni> I'm not dead
20:47:30  <Bjarni> but everybody even thinking otherwise will be
20:48:00  *** Wolfensteijn [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:48:17  <Bjarni> now the question is: did the channel die?
20:48:25  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: no
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20:48:42  <Bjarni> \o/
20:48:44  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: the channel is definitely living :)
20:48:52  <SimonRC> Bjarni: why, what happened to you?
20:48:58  <Bjarni> heh, I got a PM about a translator account
20:49:14  <Bjarni> <SimonRC>	Bjarni: why, what happened to you? <-- a fate worse than death
20:49:17  <Bjarni> ... offline
20:50:00  <Eddi|zuHause> oh... i had that feeling for a few minutes yesterday night...
20:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> it was freaking scary
20:50:40  <Belugas> Hey Bjarni.  My sympathies :)
20:51:22  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: are you around?
20:51:24  <Bjarni> wow, people wrote a lot of the forum since Friday. There is no way that I'm going to read all of that
20:51:25  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
20:51:31  <MiHaMiX> Belugas_Gone: bye:)
20:51:43  <Bjarni> specially considering the general quality of forum posts :p
20:51:52  <Bjarni> anything interesting happened?
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20:52:01  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: forward all translator account requests to me pls
20:52:13  <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: WT2 will be opened this week, probably at friday
20:52:38  <MiHaMiX> anyone having experience tracking down a nasty DHTML bug or a browser bug?
20:53:47  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4406 /branch/yapf/rail_map.h: [YAPF] Fix: added missing typecasts (C++ compliance)
20:55:22  <glx> ===> Compiling language polish
20:55:22  <glx> lang/polish.txt:2810: FATAL: invalid argidx -1
20:55:32  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4407 /branch/yapf/ (settings.c yapf/yapf_ship.cpp yapf.txt): [YAPF] two additional YAPF types added (with disabled 90-deg. turns) for ships
20:56:05  <MiHaMiX> hmm
20:56:28  <glx> btw strgen still gives wrong line number
20:56:37  <MiHaMiX> STR_MAGLEV_VEHICLES                                             :Pojazdy Maglew
20:56:44  <MiHaMiX> yes, definitely
20:57:25  <MiHaMiX> could someone fix strgen? :DD
20:58:54  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: yes
20:59:14  <peter1138> as in, i'm around, not, i will fix strgen ;p
21:00:26  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: well, I wanted to ask something, but if you accept to fix strgen I'll delay my original question :)
21:04:20  *** Tron [] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
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21:05:14  <peter1138> +STR_WAGONS                                                      :Wagon{P "" y ow}
21:05:24  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: this is the bug?
21:05:28  <peter1138> yes
21:05:46  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: hmm.. in my concern, this string is correct
21:05:50  <peter1138> no
21:05:56  <peter1138> there's no argument for the plural
21:05:57  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: it confirms the plural setting (7)
21:05:58  *** Jenkz [] has quit []
21:06:29  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: there _is_ argument for the plural, AFAIK
21:06:40  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: plural setting 7 means 3 plural forms
21:06:52  <peter1138> no argument in the string, i mean
21:07:14  <MiHaMiX> no argument in the string?
21:07:22  <MiHaMiX> what do you mean by this?
21:07:34  <peter1138> STR_QUANTITY_BATTERIES                                          :{COMMA} bateri{P a e i}
21:07:35  * MiHaMiX 's IQ is rapidly decreasing at late evening
21:07:40  <peter1138> {COMMA} is the argument
21:07:41  <MiHaMiX> ahh
21:07:43  <MiHaMiX> I see
21:07:45  <MiHaMiX> :)
21:07:56  <peter1138> without that number there's nothing to be plurarl
21:07:59  <peter1138> plural
21:08:08  <peter1138> but why is the line number wrong... hmm :)
21:08:20  <peter1138> out by 10
21:09:00  <MiHaMiX> hmm.. good to know
21:09:22  <MiHaMiX> I can implement a bit more strict rules on plural
21:09:43  <glx> 2810 is the line in english.txt
21:10:00  <MiHaMiX> but I still don't understand why does WT2 didn't notice it.. WT2's langchecker is based on strgen
21:10:07  <peter1138> ah. hm.
21:10:10  *** Spoco [] has quit []
21:10:19  <MiHaMiX> I mean, classes/Language/Checker.php is a PHP5 rewrite of strgen
21:11:31  <CIA-3> miham * r4408 /trunk/lang/polish.txt: [Language update by miham] Quick fixed polish.txt
21:14:12  <MiHaMiX> ok, going to sleep, I'm pretty tired :)
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21:16:44  <peter1138> MiHaMiX: what was the other question? ;p
21:19:54  <peter1138> actually
21:19:56  * peter1138 -> sleep
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21:21:01  <MeusH> hey
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21:32:24  <norbert79> Hello
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21:34:02  <SimonRC> norbert79: hi
21:34:37  <norbert79> Hello SimonRC
21:35:32  <Jaraziah> off to bed ;)
21:35:53  <norbert79> Now?
21:36:08  *** Jaraziah [] has quit ["Zzz"]
21:36:11  <norbert79> Quite early
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21:39:06  * SimonRC goes to bed
21:40:38  <norbert79> You too?
21:40:45  <norbert79> Dang, I will be left here alone
21:42:25  *** ^Cartman^ [] has joined #openttd
21:42:53  <XeryusTC> no you wont
21:43:30  <norbert79> Luckily :)
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21:52:00  <Darkvater> gn all
21:52:01  *** Darkvater [] has quit ["leaving"]
22:02:24  <XeryusTC> lol
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22:09:16  <Jango> you know, ttd is really fun.... i've kinda got hooked on it again :S
22:09:47  *** Richk67 [n=RichK67@] has joined #openttd
22:10:07  <Richk67> hi all
22:10:58  <XeryusTC> hi Richk67 :)
22:12:01  <izhirahider> Jango: same here :)
22:15:42  <XeryusTC> "once you pop, you can't stop"
22:15:49  <Jango> so true
22:15:54  <Jango> and i started in 1994
22:15:55  <Jango> :/
22:16:15  <Jango> i find it amazing that this game is still so playable after almost 12 years
22:16:34  <XeryusTC> the good games were made back then
22:16:41  <XeryusTC> now it's only about graphics
22:16:47  <Jango> i can't think of another game that is THIS good - and obviously the additions of the patch and hacks help
22:17:21  *** Tobin [] has quit []
22:17:44  <Richk67> even with all these 3d strategy, etc.... i still get out Panzer General (1994) for a cracking game
22:18:31  <norbert79> Ehm
22:18:40  <norbert79> You should check Steel panthers World at War
22:18:40  *** tokai|noir [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
22:18:47  <norbert79> SP-Main battle Tank
22:18:49  <norbert79> SP-WW2
22:18:58  <norbert79> If you like turn based games too
22:19:03  <XeryusTC> heh, RA2 is still beter then generals too :)
22:19:56  <Richk67> i liked the abstraction in PG... Steel Panthers was a bit too detailed, and i didnt root for my troops as much... it was prettier, but less involving
22:20:54  <norbert79> Steel Panthers is for hardcores only :)
22:21:04  <norbert79> because of the high detail of information
22:21:41  <norbert79> I use to play it a LOT
22:21:49  <norbert79> Have Steel Panthers 1 and 3 in Original version
22:22:28  <norbert79> But I have just played Armagetron Advanced :)
22:22:43  <Jango> i'm just getting the Canyonero map, and then a new game beckons :)
22:22:58  <norbert79> Jango
22:23:05  <norbert79> Wanna have a Hungarian map?
22:23:18  <Jango> to test?
22:23:31  <Richk67> do you know why canyonero is called that ;)
22:23:34  <Jango> nope
22:23:40  <norbert79> No, I have found it on the web
22:23:42  <Jango> but i think it's become my favourite map :)
22:23:52  <norbert79> It is a quite good represantation of Hungary
22:23:53  <Richk67> other than it being the Grand Canyon....
22:24:19  <norbert79> Jango, wanna try it?
22:24:34  <Jango> not now, i'm going to do canyonero
22:24:40  <Richk67> i was watching Simpsons...
22:24:50  <Jango> you realise this will be my second major game using it
22:24:52  <Richk67> and its the name of the big SUV that Marge gets
22:24:56  <Jango> there's just so much possibility
22:25:04  <Jango> ah right :)
22:25:14  <Richk67> thanks... appreciate it - have you tried Africa?
22:25:22  <Jango> i think i might have changed the start date tho!
22:25:26  <Jango> no, not yet
22:25:36  <Richk67> that i reckon took 60 hours!
22:25:40  <Jango> oh, and the currency :P
22:25:51  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|sleep
22:25:55  <norbert79> And I am just listening to Kraftwerk... Autobahn :)
22:25:57  <Jango> i'm just too used to UK money
22:36:43  <norbert79> bye
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22:42:12  <Jango> did someone mess up the snow line?
22:42:36  <Jango> my railway tracks are going in and out of being in snow
22:42:59  <MeusH> winter time? ;)
22:43:30  <Jango> nope, i didn't think we had intermittent heater systems under our tracks
22:44:02  <Richk67> its light snow... every passing train blows it clear ;)
22:44:17  <Jango> must be something like that
22:44:47  <Jango> i'm sure it's been introduced recently
22:44:54  <Jango> my previous nightly didn't do this i think
22:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause> spontaneously i'd blame the map accessors for rail ground tiles ;)
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22:53:13  <Bjarni> o_O
22:53:26  <Bjarni> around 1500 pair of shoes have drifted on shore
22:53:46  <Bjarni> sometimes the news got some odd news
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23:07:05  <Richk67> bbl
23:07:09  <Richk67> quit
23:07:11  *** Richk67 [n=RichK67@] has quit []
23:07:52  <MeusH> bang, problem with WT2
23:11:18  <izhirahider> oh
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23:16:00  <^Cartman^> ...
23:16:42  <^Cartman^> Someone here working on the "improved loading algorithm"?
23:16:48  <MeusH> what an improvement :)
23:17:25  <^Cartman^> Hehe
23:17:47  <^Cartman^> The example is not that good
23:18:39  <MeusH> but yeah I know what does he want
23:18:51  <MeusH> maybye cargo packets would change it, or a simple hack
23:19:18  <MeusH> but I'm sure it'll be done only when some developer does it
23:19:28  <MeusH> this part is harder
23:19:39  <^Cartman^> Yeah
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23:36:50  <MeusH> \o/ all developers here (ohh, besides Darkvater)
23:36:57  <MeusH> pity they are asleep now
23:36:59  <MeusH> goodnight
23:37:11  <MeusH> cya MiHaMiX, read private chat
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23:39:16  *** MeusH [] has quit ["Goodbye"]
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23:59:26  <Bjarni> <MeusH>	pity they are asleep now <-- I already stated that I don't want lies about me
23:59:28  <Bjarni> :p
23:59:31  <Bjarni> goodnight
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