Log for #openttd on 23rd April 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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00:01:53  * SimonRC wonders if MeusH was making a deliberate reference to "Lemon party".
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00:10:49  <meeps> lol
00:10:59  <meeps> mmm
00:11:06  <meeps> i like lemons (homer simpson voice)
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03:43:53  <Tobin> Hmm.
03:44:06  <Tobin> I should check out the YAPF branch.
04:35:15  <Celestar> morning
04:37:27  <Celestar> MiHaMeK: I can't contact flyspray
04:51:42  <Celestar> KUDr: if possibly, can you take into account that we have multi-tile waypoints in the future?
05:02:04  <Darkvater> ha, who is awake now!
05:02:14  <Darkvater> wtf, Celestar what are you doing at 7AM?
05:02:32  <Celestar> Darkvater: I *should* be packing
05:02:52  <MiHaMeK> Celestar: what do you mean contact?
05:03:06  <Celestar> the server doesn't respond
05:03:19  <MiHaMeK> Celestar: ahh, so as wiki and others?
05:03:25  <Celestar> it's 57005
05:03:27  <MiHaMeK> Celestar: i'm going to fix it, damn apache2
05:03:32  <Celestar> MiHaMeK: yuck
05:03:44  <Celestar> just wasn't sure whether you knew it.
05:04:08  <Darkvater> you guys are insane
05:04:13  <Darkvater> it's Sunday for god's sake
05:04:15  <MiHaMeK> Celestar: thanks for reporting, wasn't knew it
05:04:26  <MiHaMeK> Celestar: it should be working now
05:04:27  <Celestar> Darkvater: I'm flying to Spain this morning
05:04:35  <Celestar> yes MiHaMeK
05:04:39  <MiHaMeK> Celestar: ok
05:04:45  <MiHaMeK> bbl
05:04:55  <Darkvater> cool
05:04:59  <Darkvater> have agreat time :)
05:05:08  <Celestar> Darkvater: I'm on a 3-day-conference.
05:05:13  <Celestar> not sure it'll be great :P
05:06:13  <Darkvater> hehe
05:06:21  <Darkvater> well we'll see, we'll see
05:06:27  <Celestar>
05:06:39  <Darkvater> I'll see you guys during the day again :)
05:07:01  <Celestar> <= so cross your fingers
05:08:13  <Celestar> up to 3 concurrent sessions.
05:08:38  <Celestar> Darkvater: peter1138: Tron: we should define what features we want in 0.5.0
05:19:36  <Tron> make a suggestion
05:20:59  <Celestar> 1) elrails, 2) the bridge stuff, 3) YAPF (no PBS yet), 4) some gui improvements (sortable station list (finished), smallmap zoom (finished, but ugly)) 5) more airports, 6) terragenesis
05:23:32  <Celestar> for that large a release, we could consider releasing 2-3 beta versions before the final one
05:23:47  <Celestar> currently most our x.y.0 releases are not overly stable
05:26:12  <Celestar> 7) multi-tile waypoints
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05:42:33  <Celestar> 8) vast part of newgrf working
05:45:43  <Celestar> MiHaMeK: I have another "severity" to add to flyspray
05:46:03  <Celestar> "Blocker"
05:46:19  <Celestar> but ok, I'm off
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06:30:03  <peter1138> morning
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06:57:26  <MeusH> hello
06:59:59  <Skiddles^> Bye
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07:26:56  <Celestar> hey peter1138
07:29:24  <peter1138> hi :)
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07:34:15  <peter1138> hmm, i need to switch the endianness of a 32bit uint
07:35:08  <Celestar> TO_BE or something?
07:37:42  <Tron> peter1138: unconditional switch?
07:38:39  <peter1138> Tron: it's that damned grfid thing again, heh
07:38:43  <peter1138> we switch it on load
07:38:54  <peter1138> but sometimes other places load a grfid
07:38:58  <Tron> ah, the "today were .... *TADAAA* big endian"
07:39:16  <peter1138> maybe it's simplest just to load it like everything else
07:39:25  <peter1138> and just alter it for display
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07:39:27  <Celestar> BAH
07:39:34  <Celestar> I hate programs trying to outsmart me.
07:39:45  <Tron> just write a load grf_uint32_BE function or something
07:39:55  <Celestar> in Matlab, font size seem to depend on screen width.
07:40:12  <Tron> omg
07:40:16  <Celestar> as my "screen width" is 2560 pixels (I have two 1280x1024 monitors), I get THAT large letters.
07:40:24  <Celestar> so I set font size to about 4 points.
07:40:47  <Celestar> now when you disconn one of the monitors for one reason or another, you can't read a thing
07:40:56  <Tron> uh... pt are supposed to be the same size everywhere, independent of resolution/dpi/whatever
07:41:12  <Celestar> Tron: so I thought
07:41:19  <Celestar> seems we were both wrong
07:41:22  <Celestar> :P
07:41:49  <Celestar> somehow they make some computations with display size/display resolution.
07:42:05  <Celestar> but take the whole TwinView resolution and only one monitor's size
07:42:17  <Celestar> would be too easy to just read out the resolution
07:42:48  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici]> xdpyinfo | grep resolution
07:42:48  <Celestar>   resolution:    104x98 dots per inch
07:42:53  <Celestar> very hard :S
07:42:56  <peter1138> Tron: problem is there are places where it may or may not be a grfid, heh
07:43:01  <peter1138> (it's a parameter, see)
07:43:10  <Tron> it would probably even easier to just let the f...ine font library handle that stuff
07:44:24  <Celestar> again, too easy.
07:44:33  <peter1138> hmm
07:44:35  <Celestar> compute stuff yerself is the way to go.
07:44:46  <Tron> peter1138: calling this newgrf stuff a gross, ugly hack would be an understatement, wouldn't it?
07:44:51  <peter1138> yes
07:44:53  <Celestar> next release, they'll prolly write an own kernel for their program.
07:45:55  <Celestar> we need to gain enough momentum to have you-sers create datafiles in our own, proper, format
07:47:07  <Celestar> or:
07:47:18  <peter1138> speaking of font handling...
07:47:20  <Celestar> create our own format and have some newgrf-to-something-decent converter
07:48:46  <peter1138> even the same format but xml instead of binary would be better
07:49:13  <peter1138> then you don't have to be concerned with reading such and such many bytes in such and such order
07:49:14  <Celestar> that would be not too difficult to implement methinks
07:49:27  <Celestar> would it?
07:49:32  <peter1138> (mind, the same can be said of the savegame)
07:49:36  <TL|Away> Who should I shoot.... Darkvater? Yeah, I think Darkvater.... :p
07:49:40  <TL|Away> console_cmds.c:96: warning: `ConStopAllVehicles' defined but not used
07:49:43  <Tron> given that newgrf is turing complete, it's impossible to write a converter
07:49:53  <Celestar> Tron: ?
07:50:31  <Tron> that goto label stuff makes it turing complete (except for the fact that memory is finite, of course)
07:51:02  <Tron> but still 128 32bit parameters make it impossible to handle it in a sensible amount of time
07:51:22  <Celestar> I'm still not sure what we're talking about?
07:52:09  <peter1138> Celestar: nfo can make branches depending on values, and it can set values
07:52:22  <peter1138> thus you can perform loops etc
07:52:31  <peter1138> if you're sick enough :)
07:52:46  <peter1138> xml isn't well suitable to that sort of thing
07:53:22  <Celestar> TTDPatch wrote a turing complete data file?
07:53:31  <peter1138> evolved
07:53:34  <Tron> even worse
07:53:45  <Tron> it's ugly and turing complete
07:54:07  <peter1138> could be worse, could be brainfuck
07:54:11  <peter1138> not that it's far off, mind
07:54:19  <Tron> i think we should create a format based on Malbolge, that would be at least a bit saner
07:54:35  <Tron> brainfuck is _very_ sensible for its purpose
07:55:09  <Celestar> that raises the question of the purpose :P
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07:55:42  * peter1138 looksup malbolge
07:55:48  <Tron> it's a turing complete language with minimal syntax
07:56:07  <Celestar> Tron: we need a format that we can convert nfo into.
07:56:12  <Celestar> ...
07:56:16  <Celestar> EPARSE
07:56:19  <Tron> and the commands are quite sensible: move to left/right, add/subtract one, ...
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07:56:21  <Tron> nothing sick
07:57:06  <MeusH> how about c instead of xml?
07:57:16  <MeusH> similiar to .gpmi's AIs
07:57:28  <Celestar> C is not a good thing to store data
07:57:37  <MeusH> hmm
07:57:39  <MeusH> but c is human readable
07:57:44  <Celestar> XML is too
07:57:51  <MeusH> but is nfo a good thing to store data?
07:58:00  <peter1138> yes
07:58:10  <peter1138> as long as you don't want it easily gettable again ;)
07:58:27  <MeusH> openttd.cfg utilizes inifile. It is good to store data
07:58:33  <MeusH> it could be combined
07:58:43  <MeusH> c and inifile instead of nfo
07:58:48  <Celestar> I think we should use MySQL to store data *runs*
07:58:57  <MeusH> c for processing and inifile for storing thata
07:59:00  <MeusH> s/thata/data
08:01:20  <MeusH> and the good thing is that inifile implementation has been already implemented ;]
08:09:02  <stillunknown> <-- reminder :-)
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08:23:17  <MeusH> cya
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08:57:10  <XeryusTC> good morning people :)
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09:46:27  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4537 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: replace if cascade with a switch block in the sprite group loader
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10:08:33  <Naksu> hey
10:08:39  <Naksu> what's wrong with if cascades?
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10:23:14  <stillunknown> bridge branch is very broken
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10:24:17  <MeusH> hi
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10:25:28  <Tron> stillunknown: which part of the commit log was unclear?
10:26:25  <Tron> was it "UNSTABLE" or "EXPERIMENTAL" or "FOR DEVELOPMENT ONLY"?
10:29:05  <CIA-3> tron * r4538 /branch/bridge/ (83 files in 7 dirs): Sync with trunk up to r4537
10:30:56  <stillunknown> i don't remember the commit log, since it was a while ago when i read it
10:31:15  <stillunknown> i merely made an observation, never said i expected to be stable
10:31:53  <valhallasw> what is the bridge branch actually?
10:32:12  <valhallasw> a branch for signals on bridges and bridges crossing eachother?
10:32:39  <stillunknown> no, an attempt at allowing more things under bridges
10:32:40  <Tron> read the commit log FFS
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10:47:53  <XeryusTC> KUDr: ping
10:47:59  <KUDr> pong
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10:48:21  <XeryusTC> i have found a small problem in yapf
10:48:40  <KUDr> describe and provide savegame plz
10:49:16  <XeryusTC> it seems that it likes to send trains on a branch of my mainline which is about 256 tiles long just because the mainline is too occupied
10:50:10  <KUDr> how many of first 10 signals on main line are red?
10:50:12  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4539 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: always check that the action 0x2 feature matches the action 0x1, not just on 'normal' sprite groups.
10:50:40  <XeryusTC> just 1, sometimes 2 or 3
10:51:02  <KUDr> it applies 5 tile penalty for the first one
10:51:06  <KUDr> then 4,5
10:51:08  <KUDr> then 4
10:51:11  <KUDr> and so on
10:51:33  <KUDr> does it seem to be too much?
10:51:52  <XeryusTC> that seems weird, it needs to go about 128 tiles to the end of the branch, 128 tiles to go back to the mainline and then another 100 tiles to go to my mainline station
10:51:53  <KUDr> how much longer is the other branch?
10:52:12  <KUDr> aaa
10:52:16  <XeryusTC> its destination is about 200+ tiles from the branch
10:52:17  <KUDr> which rev?
10:52:53  <XeryusTC> 4523
10:53:10  <KUDr> 4536: [YAPF] Fix: decreased look-ahead red signal penalty - should fix crazy train looping (thanks yanek)
10:53:36  <KUDr> you should always look into svn and get the latest
10:53:46  <KUDr> it is under development
10:53:58  <XeryusTC> ok
10:54:04  <XeryusTC> im updating :)
10:54:14  <KUDr> very soon there will be another important change
10:54:36  <KUDr> but thanx anyway
10:55:02  <KUDr> it confirms that 4636 makes sense
10:55:07  <KUDr> 4536
10:55:10  <peter1138> hmmm
10:55:15  <peter1138> 2855+>                                dir = GetNewVehicleDirectionByTile(gp.new_tile, gp.old_tile);
10:55:21  <peter1138>  print gp
10:55:24  <peter1138>  = {x = 552, y = 557, old_tile = 9506, new_tile = 8738}
10:55:29  <peter1138> #4  0x080ce570 in GetNewVehicleDirectionByTile (new_tile=8738, old_tile=34) at train_cmd.c:2567
10:55:35  <peter1138> 9506 -> 34 ...
10:56:02  <XeryusTC> KUDr: it seems to be fixed :D
10:56:10  <KUDr> ok, thanx
10:56:25  <peter1138> 552 or 557 / 16 = 34. hmm.
10:56:44  <XeryusTC> np
10:57:32  <peter1138> hmm, and 9506 % 256 = 34
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11:13:08  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4540 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: don't treat integer values as boolean.
11:15:19  <Naksu> haha
11:15:30  <Naksu> that's a good idea
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11:40:11  <MeusH> cya
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11:58:08  <peter1138> Born_Acorn!
11:58:16  <Born_Acorn> peter1138!
11:58:18  <peter1138> i found a bug
11:58:20  <Born_Acorn> newstations!
11:58:21  <peter1138> in ukwaypoints :(
11:58:23  <Born_Acorn> :(
11:58:30  <peter1138> < fixed
11:58:58  <peter1138> 1 byte larger, hurr
11:59:37  <valhallasw> now it doesn't fit on my floppy disk :p
11:59:57  <Born_Acorn> What was the bug?
12:00:14  <peter1138> one value is missing when copying layouts
12:00:42  <Born_Acorn> ah.
12:00:58  <peter1138> it copies the layout 4 times
12:01:07  <peter1138> but there are 6 stations, so it should be 5, heh
12:01:40  <Born_Acorn> reuploaded
12:01:45  <peter1138> \o/
12:02:03  <Born_Acorn> Hopefully the next release will have new waypoints!
12:02:10  <peter1138> \o/ \o/ \o/
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13:17:13  <Sacro> afternoon all
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13:39:00  <webfreakz> KUDr?
13:39:08  <KUDr> here
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13:41:42  <webfreakz> but not in private window?
13:41:54  <webfreakz> still doesn't work somehow :)
13:42:20  <webfreakz> KUDr, i got some compiler errors on /branch/YAPF/ using MSVC6
13:42:32  <webfreakz> it was due to some protected variable-error, changed the variable to public and it compiled perfectly.
13:42:43  <KUDr> webfreakz: i have 3 private discussions here and none comes from you
13:42:54  <KUDr> it must be on your side (pm)
13:43:05  <webfreakz> strange
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13:43:20  <black_Nightmare> hey
13:43:24  <KUDr> webfreakz: i didn't check MSVC6 2 days
13:43:30  <KUDr> so it is possible
13:43:31  <webfreakz> i could send you the patch?
13:43:38  <webfreakz> or you could see yourself..?
13:43:39  <KUDr> yes
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13:43:57  <KUDr> let me check
13:44:07  <KUDr> now i am dealing with gcc
13:44:15  <KUDr> this is bigger problem
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13:44:45  <KUDr> did you it by PM?
13:45:00  <KUDr> then you are not registered probably
13:45:14  <KUDr> on freenode
13:45:44  <webfreakz> i will see how to register
13:46:11  <webfreakz>  /help op
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13:47:33  <KUDr> webfreakz: when you connect, you see help
13:47:53  <webfreakz> KUDr: here's the patch:
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13:48:25  <CIA-3> tron * r4541 /trunk/ (28 files): Add a type for slopes and replace many magic numbers by the appropriate enums
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13:48:33  <glx> webfreakz: /msg nickserv help
13:48:48  <KUDr> webfreakz: ok, i will look at it now, got gcc working
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13:49:23  <webfreakz> thx both :)
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13:59:14  <Sacro> afternoon all again
14:00:10  <webfreakz> ey sacro
14:06:21  <XeryusTC> heya Sacro
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14:07:12  <UnderBuilder> hello sacro
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14:13:29  <MeusH> hello
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14:14:56  <webfreakz> ey
14:16:50  <XeryusTC> heya MeusH
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14:22:54  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4542 /branch/yapf/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
14:22:54  <CIA-3> [YAPF] Add: FindNearestDepot and CheckReverse support for trains (thanks Celestar)
14:22:54  <CIA-3> Add: red signal penalties depending on signal type (thanks yanek)
14:22:54  <CIA-3> Fix: VC6 compilation errors (thanks webfreakz)
14:22:54  <CIA-3> Fix: wrong 'best node' manipulation caused target info overwrite
14:22:55  <CIA-3> Remove: YAPF type 4 for ships and trains
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14:28:30  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4543 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: [YAPF] Add: penalty for trains passing stations
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14:33:40  <MeusH[away]> cya
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14:44:38  <webfreakz>
14:52:37  <stillunknown> something specific?
14:54:31  <KUDr> stillunknown: something what needs to be havily tested
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15:01:58  <CIA-3> tron * r4544 /trunk/ (25 files in 3 dirs): Merge two almost identical string (STR_1[08]00_LAND_SLOPED_IN_WRONG_DIRECTION) - one just contains two redundant words
15:03:45  <stillunknown> KUDr: i know that, but i thought there was something special to be seen
15:04:25  <KUDr> stillunknown: ok, and how many bugs did you found there?
15:05:27  <stillunknown> none, because i didn't do any serious testing (i have stuff i want to maintain and expand as well and that takes time too)
15:05:48  <KUDr> forget programing, do something reasonable :)
15:05:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> [23.04. 16:30] <CIA-3> KUDr * r4543 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: [YAPF] Add: penalty for trains passing stations <- did you consider there that newstations may have some sort of plain track tiles?
15:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> (if we ever would get newstations :p)
15:06:33  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: no. I know nothing about newstations
15:06:54  <webfreakz> what with the newstations?
15:06:58  <webfreakz> what is it?
15:06:58  <KUDr> plain tracks will not be penalised
15:07:00  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: they're obsolete now
15:07:16  <peter1138> now that ttdp can do irregular stations
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15:07:47  <webfreakz> irregular stations?
15:07:55  <stillunknown> is it true that ottd is mostlty on a feature freeze until 0.5 comes?
15:08:01  <webfreakz> newgrf stations? or just strangely shaped stations?
15:08:17  <peter1138> more than just x by y layouts
15:09:04  <webfreakz> is there any wiki page for that/
15:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: hmm... i always viewed that as some kind of "drive through" track... like in the middle of 2 parts of the stations... not necessarily with irregular stations
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15:10:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> so i could maybe build 2 platforms (south bound) for passengers, 2 drive through lanes for freight, and 2 platforms (northbound) for passengers
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15:10:33  <stillunknown> KUDr: cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wstrict-prototypes" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++
15:10:39  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: but with irregular stations you don't need that
15:10:51  <stillunknown> and two more (similar errors), is this on my side or a known problem?
15:10:59  <KUDr> stillunknown: yes, ignore it. It is makefile problem
15:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but i have to magically join those 2 parts of the station...
15:11:12  <peter1138> stillunknown: no
15:11:20  <peter1138> (regarding feature freeze)
15:11:30  <peter1138> we can't permanently be in a freeze :)
15:11:47  <KUDr> would be nice :)
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15:12:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> i would assume a freze comes when it goes beta
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15:13:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: we need an option to add tiles to stations without them being physically connected
15:14:07  <peter1138> yes
15:15:07  <ledow>
15:15:10  <ledow> bugger - sorry
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15:33:58  <Rexxie> does anyone feel like coding a "remove all trees" for the scenario editor?
15:34:15  <Rexxie> used ages to build a scenario and now the whole map is literally full of trees.. everywhere
15:37:39  <Patrick`> so?
15:37:43  <Patrick`> just ignore them
15:38:08  <Rexxie> kind of hard, you cant really build anything at all without the town authorities hating you
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15:39:11  <Patrick`> it's challenging
15:39:15  <Patrick`> lay down the stations first
15:40:23  <Rexxie> its a little TOO challenging, I dont mind trees, but some of these islands doesnt have one square without a tree on it
15:41:10  <Rexxie> you get to build the station, then your town rating is appalling already, then you have to make tracks, and you spend AGES getting it to poor so you can build another station, bus stop, something :p
15:41:30  <Patrick`> not true
15:41:39  <Patrick`> demolish a square of land of trees, you'll go down to appalling
15:41:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> destroy a building instead :)
15:41:56  <Patrick`> tree it up again (just one pass, to make small seedlings) and your rating goes back up to "good"
15:42:15  <Patrick`> building trees only gives you good ratings if they go on totally bare soil
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15:44:43  <Rexxie> well, thats not the way I want to play unfortunately, its not realistic nor is it a lot of fun
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15:45:10  <Rexxie> guess I'll look into the source, heh =/
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15:46:55  <Patrick`> it's a workaround
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15:55:13  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4545 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: [YAPF] Fix: speed limit (i.e. bridges) implied too much cost penalty (thanks webfreakz)
15:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> can you apply speed limit penalty also for curves?
15:56:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> or is that too complex?
15:56:30  <KUDr> curves are penalised differently
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15:57:36  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4546 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf.h rail_cmd.c):
15:57:36  <CIA-3> - NewGRF: add support for Action 0x05, type 0x04: replacement signal graphics. Thanks to Purno for supplying data to test
15:57:36  <CIA-3> with.
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16:02:59  <Patrick`> <-- aah, cgi
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16:23:45  <Brianetta> echo test
16:23:55  <Brianetta> forgot my /
16:23:56  <webfreakz> alpha bravo?
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16:29:34  <ledow> openttd: slope.h:37: ComplementSlope: Assertion `!IsSteepSlope(s)' failed.  <-- with latest SVN
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16:36:35  <Brianetta> Sacro
16:36:41  <Sacro> Brianetta
16:36:49  <Brianetta> You want your saved game from my server?
16:37:29  <Sacro> yeah, can do
16:37:43  <Sacro> you never updated it and left it on an incompatable revision :(
16:39:34  <Brianetta> Incompatible with what?
16:40:57  <Brianetta>
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16:47:36  <Sacro> you left it at R4033 i think, and the windows compilation was 4034 so i couldnt join
16:49:28  <Brianetta> Well, that's Windows for you
16:49:37  <Brianetta> but the last revision I left it at was 4469
16:50:01  <meeps> hello there
16:50:03  <Brianetta> meeps
16:50:06  <meeps> anybody know what var restart_game_date does
16:50:09  <meeps> :) hello Brianetta :)
16:50:10  <Brianetta> yes
16:50:11  <ledow> Whoa... seems like there's some breakage on the latest SVN:  Can't even get more than a few years into a game without that gappening.
16:50:30  <Brianetta> Highlander V: The Gappening
16:50:40  <ledow> lol *Happening*
16:50:58  <ledow> That's where they all start digging holes with their swords
16:50:59  <meeps> rcon mypass restartfrombeginning
16:51:05  <meeps> heh :D
16:51:11  <meeps> is there a manual for rcon?
16:51:14  <meeps> by any chance :D
16:51:16  <Brianetta> No
16:51:20  <Brianetta> rcon is the same as console
16:51:21  <meeps> thought as much,
16:51:25  <Brianetta> so use that page
16:51:26  <meeps> yes i know that.
16:51:29  <meeps> ahh
16:51:30  <meeps> :)
16:51:35  * meeps finds the console page
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16:51:50  <meeps>
16:51:52  <meeps> thanks very much
16:51:55  <ledow> Celestar: Darkvater: Anyone?  <-- can't even play for than a few years without this happening on latest SVN.
16:52:26  <peter1138> saw the first time
16:53:14  <Brianetta> restart_game_date, btw, specifies a year at which the game is wiped for a new one.
16:54:37  <meeps> ok thanks Brianetta, i assume 0 never restarts
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17:02:47  <UnderBuilder> screenshot [big|nocon]: what is the nocon parameter?
17:04:59  <Vornicus> Controls, I think
17:07:58  <Sacro> if its under console im guessing it hides it
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17:10:43  <MeusH> hello
17:11:26  <webfreakz> hello
17:11:47  <webfreakz> meush, have you been working on the measurement patch? and have you seen my compile.log ?
17:14:08  <MeusH> let's see
17:14:11  <MeusH> is it on the forum?
17:14:22  <MeusH> I think I saw some .log
17:14:34  <MeusH> if you mean _cdcel or whatever warning, this is known in MSVC IMO
17:15:44  <webfreakz> yes, that's the one! :)
17:16:17  <MeusH> is it on the forum?
17:16:20  <MeusH> brb
17:16:34  <webfreakz> yes it is
17:18:41  <MeusH> back
17:18:51  <MeusH> okay I'll take a look at it
17:19:12  <webfreakz> thx :)
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17:27:12  * Sacro sings "you put the lime in the coke you nut and drink it all up" damn addictive advertising
17:27:27  <webfreakz> ?
17:31:07  <MeusH> webfreakz, is it on ?
17:31:11  <MeusH> Or the other topic?
17:32:05  <MeusH> allright I see it
17:32:07  <MeusH> nevermind
17:32:14  <webfreakz>
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17:32:29  <webfreakz> thats the post, it has 2 problems 1) the screenshot 2) the compiler
17:34:25  <MeusH> yeah, measuring is made in bad way
17:34:32  <MeusH> I hope I'll find some time to re-work it
17:35:00  <MeusH> about the error, does it happen in clean trunk compilation?
17:35:06  <YoG> help, i'm trying to run openttd, but getting: "no language pack / file is corrupter or missing"...
17:35:15  <webfreakz> no it doesn't
17:35:21  <MeusH> If yes, then there is nothing wrong with measurement. has more info
17:35:26  <MeusH> hmm
17:35:29  <Tron> YoG: read the readme
17:35:50  <MeusH> YoG: you must supply from TTD
17:35:56  <YoG> I did
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17:36:06  <MeusH> then try the other one
17:36:11  <MeusH> there are many on net
17:36:15  <Patrick`> YoG: or a blank one
17:36:15  <MeusH>
17:36:19  <MeusH> and language packs come with OpenTTD
17:36:22  <webfreakz> Meush: i already used the method in last thread on your measurement tool and it worked if-i-remeber-clearly, but i thougt maybe there's a better solution for it?
17:37:06  <MeusH> webfreakz: does it return errors in ai_event.h?
17:37:10  <YoG> I'll try...
17:37:21  <MeusH> or in one of the files I have modified?
17:37:37  <webfreakz> you can see in the log what it does>?
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17:46:32  <MeusH> yeah, but the measurement patch has nothing to do with ai files
17:46:36  <YoG> empty file didn't work. your saying i can get another file from the network?
17:47:11  <glx> YoG: where did you put
17:47:22  <MeusH> it must be in /data/
17:47:24  <webfreakz>
17:47:29  <MeusH> along with .grf files
17:47:32  <webfreakz> download the from there :)
17:47:38  <MeusH> good point glx :)
17:48:04  <YoG> "/user/share/games/openttd/data/"
17:48:18  <YoG> maybe its coniguration problem?
17:49:21  <YoG> thanx webfreakz, i'll try
17:50:06  <webfreakz> *away*
17:51:26  <Hinrik> YoG: gentoo user?
17:51:34  <Sacro> s/user/usr :)
17:51:53  <YoG> openzaurus
17:52:01  <Sacro> and it wants to be in ./data/
17:52:07  <Hinrik> anyway, I can help you
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17:52:26  <YoG> Sacro: I don't know
17:52:55  <YoG> Hinrik: What should I do?
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17:53:26  <Sacro> whats the problem?
17:53:37  <Hinrik> YoG: private message
17:58:11  <CIA-3> tron * r4547 /trunk/town_cmd.c: Revert a part of r4541 to silence an assertion for now
17:59:05  <YoG> Hinrik: no good ;(
18:00:02  <webfreakz> whats the problem?
18:00:45  <YoG> "no available language packs / file is cottupted or missing"
18:02:16  <Tron> this is no error message the game displays
18:02:38  <Patrick`> sure you're actually using openttd
18:02:43  <glx> YoG: how do you run openttd?
18:02:52  <YoG> Tron:?
18:02:54  <Patrick`> or are you translating it on the fly from your native language
18:03:08  <YoG> Patrick, the package name was openttd
18:03:16  <Tron> Patrick`: these kind of messages are not translated
18:03:19  <CIA-3> egladil * r4548 /branch/32bpp/ (92 files in 5 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4476:4546 from trunk.
18:03:21  <YoG> glx: "openttd"
18:03:37  <Tron> Patrick`: how could they, the message says there are no language files present
18:03:51  <Patrick`> it says "one of the preceeding 2 errors happened"
18:03:57  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4549 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf.h): - NewGRF: store the grf version from Action 0x08.
18:05:01  <Tron> copy&paste from the terminal starting from the command you used to start till the last line of output the game gave you, and if it's more than about 3 or 4 lines DON'T paste it in this channel
18:05:15  <Patrick`> put it into
18:05:28  <YoG> it's not long
18:05:34  <Patrick`> JUST TELL US
18:05:35  <Patrick`> sorry.
18:05:35  <YoG> just a sec
18:05:42  <Patrick`> the anticipation
18:06:12  <Tron> c&p in X is so dead easy *sigh*
18:06:59  <Patrick`> personally I prefer IRIX
18:07:51  <YoG> "root@c7x0:/usr/share/games/openttd# openttd
18:07:51  <YoG> [5440]:Connected to screen 'Transformed'
18:07:51  <YoG> Error: No available language packs
18:07:51  <YoG> Your file is corrupted or missing!
18:08:20  <Prof_Frink> Tron: It's equally easy in Windows with TXMouse
18:08:29  <Tron> zeroth: don't start it as root
18:08:49  <Tron> first: don't start it as root
18:08:56  <Tron> second: don't start it as root
18:09:14  <YoG> I'm running it on a linux mobile device... or whatever you call it
18:09:15  <Tron> if anything bad happens to your box, it's your problem
18:09:28  <YoG> that's the way it works
18:09:44  <YoG> I don't have another user
18:09:48  <Tron> how did you install it? compiled it from source? or used the deb/rpm?
18:09:54  <Patrick`> mobile user?
18:10:13  <Patrick`> as in, that jackass who didn't honour the GPL and wrote his own wrapper around it?
18:10:26  <Patrick`> not you personally, but he did the port to zodiac
18:10:32  <YoG> i used ipkg
18:10:36  <Tron> what?
18:10:38  <spoot> tron: r4541 missed ai/trolly/pathfinder.c, is that correct?
18:10:52  <Patrick`> never mind, you're probably too young to remember
18:10:59  <YoG> i used ipkg to install it
18:11:01  <Tron> spoot: i probably missed a bunch of stuff
18:11:14  <YoG> something like deb
18:11:14  <Patrick`> <-- that guy
18:11:16  <spoot> ah righty, ok :) was just wondering, it gave me some warnings
18:11:27  <Tron> warnings?
18:11:50  <spoot> yeah, you changed a couple of uints to Slope, but not in the above mentioned file, it will prolly still work though
18:12:00  *** Qball [] has joined #openttd
18:12:10  <Tron> ipkg doesn't remotly sound like it came from our download site, stick to the documentation this package or whatever it is comes with
18:12:12  <Qball> who implemented the "love" target for make?
18:12:27  <YoG> no, not from your website
18:12:35  <YoG> from the feed of openzaurus
18:12:43  *** Mucht|zZz [] has quit ["I'll be back!"]
18:12:56  <Tron> Qball: somebody with a very crippled sense of humor
18:13:03  <YoG> Tron: thats exactly the problems, there are none
18:13:05  * Sacro found it funny
18:13:17  <valhallasw> Qball: I blame Chef, as member of the SUPER ADVENTURE CLUB!
18:13:20  <Tron> the joke was old even before i was born
18:13:28  <Qball> look in the Makefile
18:13:30  <Qball> of openttd
18:13:34  <Qball> there is a love:
18:13:55  <Tron> i know what's in the makefile
18:14:30  <Patrick`> YoG: ask the people you got it from then, they'll probably know
18:14:38  <valhallasw> make love -Os ;)
18:16:06  <YoG> Patrick: yeah I'll go back there... thanx anyway
18:16:19  <Tron> you could try strings openttd | grep /
18:16:23  <Patrick`> YoG: honestly, I don't think anyone here knows how they package it
18:16:32  <Tron> one of the lines should be a path
18:17:12  <YoG> Patrick: what do you mean?
18:17:44  <Patrick`> YoG: ignore me, I'm being reflective
18:27:26  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations!
18:27:57  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4550 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_text.c newgrf_text.h): - NewGRF: update string system to new rules: a grf version of less than 6 uses the old scheme, of 7 or more uses the new scheme. (Moving targets, yay...)
18:28:09  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newcatenary!
18:28:18  <peter1138> what!
18:28:25  <peter1138> newsignals not enough in one day?
18:28:34  <peter1138> and 'newcatenary' will be tricky
18:28:43  <Born_Acorn> newcatenary! erailsw.grf is hardcoded to load, which smells.
18:28:44  <peter1138> as celestar created some extra sprites that ttdp doesn't have
18:29:07  <Born_Acorn> Dutchcatw.grf works if you rename it to erailsw.grf
18:29:11  <Born_Acorn> so there!
18:29:30  <peter1138> bridges have special treatment, iirc
18:29:46  <peter1138> try a bridge over troubled ^W elrails
18:30:22  <Born_Acorn> err.
18:30:35  <Born_Acorn> newstations!
18:31:03  <peter1138> what? :P
18:31:24  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! new.*!
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18:31:49  <Born_Acorn> newmoneyforbornacorn!
18:31:52  <meeps> how to delete my company for other players?
18:31:59  <peter1138> newwaypointsfrombornacorn
18:32:04  <meeps> lol :D
18:35:14  *** kujeger_II is now known as kujeger
18:35:21  <TL|Away> peter1138: bool new_scheme = _cur_grffile->grf_version < 7; <- what is wrong here? ;)
18:35:36  <peter1138> TL|Away: correct
18:36:36  <TL|Away> peter1138: correct as  in:  theline is correct, or I am correct? ;)
18:36:41  <peter1138> you are correct
18:36:51  <TL|Away> :p
18:36:57  <TL|Away> Bah, 30% packetloss
18:37:01  <TL|Away> hard to type
18:37:02  <Patrick`> what ISP?
18:37:04  <TL|Away> (SSH)
18:37:08  <Patrick`> happened to me before
18:37:11  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4551 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_station.c newgrf_station.h): - NewGRF: add string handling for newstations.
18:37:11  <Patrick`> I know, total pita
18:37:31  <TL|Away> it happens here foor  3mnths now
18:37:39  <TL|Away> fighting  myass off at the ISP
18:37:47  <TL|Away> but I  amthe only  onecomplainnig
18:37:55  <TL|Away> so they say  itis lcal
18:37:55  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4552 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: fix braino... in r4550, new_scheme should true when the version is 7 or higher, not less than 7...
18:38:06  <peter1138> (thanks truelight)
18:38:15  <TL|Away> I call 3 places (reeaall pcs) noot llca
18:38:18  <TL|Away> LOL!
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18:38:26  <TL|Away> Typing is hard
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18:38:34  <peter1138> TL|Away: in english?
18:38:35  <TL|Away> yw peter1138 :)
18:38:43  <TL|Away> nevermind, logggin off
18:38:48  <TL|Away> I can't type like this
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18:38:56  <TL|Away> is collecs the same keys
18:39:02  <TL|Away> so when I type    reaallyyfstnoobd canread  it:)
18:39:35  <TL|Away> bye :)
18:40:14  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: see, a newstations commit ;p
18:40:41  <Sacro> peter1138: ETA?
18:40:47  <peter1138> "a while"
18:41:59  <stillunknown> it's a shame so many things are "a while" :-)
18:42:16  <Qball> and never change
18:42:51  <Patrick`> mwahah
18:43:00  <Patrick`> I just spent £300,000 placing signals in one go
18:43:03  <Patrick`> with autocomplete
18:43:18  <peter1138> indeed, and i'm currently not compiling a build with the newstations gui in it, no...
18:43:28  <Patrick`> I had a triple-density lane running the length of the map, and I connected them all together into one track 12,000 tiles long
18:43:35  <Patrick`> and then bam, autocompletion
18:45:08  <peter1138> easily amused, eh ? :)
18:45:09  <stillunknown> is that a trunk feature?
18:45:48  <Patrick`> nope
18:45:57  <Patrick`> I'm having to use a patched 0.4.5
18:45:59  <Patrick`> the horror
18:46:05  *** tokai [] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"]
18:46:13  * Sacro hides at the mention of signal autocompletion
18:46:17  <Patrick`> DO IT
18:46:44  <Patrick`> you can command me to create something small and useful in python if you want
18:46:48  <Patrick`> like the decoder
18:46:54  <Patrick`> only it already exists
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18:48:47  <Sacro> do what?
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18:57:01  <MeusH> update and finalize signal autocompletion
19:00:21  <valhallasw> MiHaMeK: I guess you don't really need a fourth dutch translator? :P
19:00:31  <Sacro> i need to figure out how it works first
19:01:37  <[Shaman]> dutch translations suck anyways :P
19:01:40  <[Shaman]> english > dutch tbh
19:02:15  * valhallasw calls verdonk to kick [Shaman] to the UK
19:03:11  * Prof_Frink kicks him back
19:03:32  * valhallasw calls verdonk to kick [Shaman] to *anywhere*
19:03:33  <valhallasw> there.
19:03:51  * [Shaman] acks and sidesteps
19:04:21  <[Shaman]> no, seriously.. every watched the dutch subtitles on an 'american' movie
19:04:27  <[Shaman]> useless translations
19:04:28  <MeusH> english is the best in OpenTTD
19:04:34  <MeusH> it's difficult to translate it
19:04:39  <valhallasw> ehm [Shaman]
19:04:43  <Xeryus|douche> try english comedy with dutch subtitles ;)
19:04:49  <valhallasw> you can't compare movie subtitles to a game
19:05:01  <[Shaman]> valhallasw: Black and White 2 ? :p
19:05:24  <valhallasw> and you cannot compare native speakers with weird english translators
19:06:09  <[Shaman]> true that
19:06:20  <[Shaman]> but even from dutch games you end up getting sucky translations :/
19:06:41  <[Shaman]> dutch game producer, makes an english game, but then -fails- to translate it nicely to dutch..
19:06:46  <Prof_Frink> It's Free Software. If you don't like it, improve it.
19:07:02  <Patrick`> volunteer to do the dutch translations, you bloody idiot then
19:07:06  *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@] has joined #openttd
19:07:10  <Patrick`> you don't even need to know how to code
19:07:10  *** BJH_ [] has joined #openttd
19:07:17  <valhallasw> :D
19:07:17  <[Shaman]> nah, i'm sticking with english
19:07:28  <valhallasw> I was one of the initial translators :P
19:07:44  <RichK67> lo folks
19:07:44  <[Shaman]> I'd rather program than translate any day tbh
19:08:40  <Sacro> i dont mind translating, but i only speak english, and i dont do that very well
19:08:42  <CIA-3> tron * r4553 /trunk/ai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): int and magic numbers -> Slope and DiagDirection
19:09:51  <MeusH> I was playing OpenTTD in english for over a year. Now I play polish. Why? Because I translate it. I am the only translator, I've made a good use of cases, genders and plurar forms and now playing translated OpenTTD is a pleasure
19:10:12  <MeusH> Before, polish translation sucked
19:10:15  <MeusH> very much
19:10:36  * [Shaman] nods
19:10:39  <valhallasw> yeah
19:10:45  <valhallasw> personal translations ftw ;)
19:10:59  <Patrick`> MeusH: exactly
19:11:02  <Patrick`> use what you code
19:12:02  <[Shaman]> code it like how you want to use it works good most of the times
19:12:12  <hylje> nerf shamans
19:12:12  <[Shaman]> (at least you'll love your own things then :P )
19:12:31  <[Shaman]> yar, nerf shamans, buff rogues. </wow>
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19:28:11  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstation commit! woo!
19:29:06  <[Shaman]> anybody know how much bps each client takes on a multiplayer server?
19:30:00  <RichK67> ouch ... i go away for 2 days, and OTTD has 70+ commits, including a major!  :)
19:31:35  <Patrick`> I write OSS that I use every day
19:31:48  <Sacro> RichK67: go away for a week :) might get 0.5.0
19:31:49  <Patrick`> and if there are aspects that I don't, I get help from someone that does
19:32:04  <Patrick`> even if they're not a coder, if they use it every day and keep me informed I benefit
19:32:08  <Patrick`> much like me and ottd
19:32:16  <RichK67> hope not - not got TGP and 6 new airports in yet ;)
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19:34:52  <black_Nightmare> not sure if I had asked this before so sorry if I did but....
19:35:04  <black_Nightmare> any thoughts on bridges being able to cross signalled track tiles?
19:35:16  <Patrick`> GOD I WANT IT
19:35:17  <Patrick`> SO BAD
19:35:18  <black_Nightmare> oftenly have to ask someone to delete their signal for me to cross their track..etc
19:35:23  <Patrick`> it's not currently possible
19:35:26  <Patrick`> black_Nightmare: tunnel underneath
19:35:28  <black_Nightmare> not easy when not all players are online
19:35:34  <black_Nightmare> patrick....meh....figures
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19:35:37  <Patrick`> tunnels are just as good, and they have no speed limits
19:35:40  <CIA-3> tron * r4554 /trunk/ (17 files): Replace magic numbers by TILE_{HEIGHT,SIZE}
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19:35:56  <Patrick`> you have 1 slope, a stretch without signals, and a slope. Exactly the same as a bridge
19:35:58  <black_Nightmare> patrick...yeah but then again you need a larger space to start a tunnel with
19:36:08  <Patrick`> not with build on slopes
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19:36:14  <Patrick`> you can pave over the edges
19:36:18  <black_Nightmare> unless someone invents a straight-down slope that doesn't need to be 3 tiles wide
19:36:39  <hylje> freeform terraforming would be the shit imo
19:36:39  <Patrick`> yep, it's called build on slopws
19:36:39  <MeusH> 2 tiles
19:36:45  <black_Nightmare> then again.. 90 degree curves are no fun at all as well :p
19:36:57  <black_Nightmare> hylje..very funny ;)
19:37:15  <hylje> =p
19:37:23  <black_Nightmare> well here's another question....
19:37:35  <hylje> gogo 100km mountains one meter wide
19:37:53  <black_Nightmare> would there be a way that network patch settings could be saved seperately from your own settings?
19:38:16  <black_Nightmare> kinda annoying when one network map sets many different thing then you have to reset every single one back to your own wished way before you start your own map (offline)
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19:39:04  *** FauxFaux_ is now known as FauxFaux
19:39:29  <MeusH> yes, it will be donw
19:39:31  <MeusH> done*
19:39:42  <MeusH> currently, you may just use lots of configs
19:39:49  <MeusH> meh, two configs
19:39:55  <MeusH> single- and multiplayer
19:40:36  <RichK67> hi meush
19:41:22  <black_Nightmare> one thing I've kinda wondered about was if you could have one 'wagon' marked as 0ton empty&loaded or is it not possible for some reason?
19:41:23  <RichK67> im having real problems trying to keep IN even vaguely in step with pace of development
19:42:11  <black_Nightmare> too..heh
19:42:26  <black_Nightmare> but one that I'll like to hear released is being able to bridge over diagonal tracks
19:43:04  <black_Nightmare> reason I asked about a 0ton wagon is ..... just for fun
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19:43:28  <black_Nightmare> image having a large steam engine then attach one or two 'tenders' behind it and it doesn't really affect the train except for being 1/2 tile longer
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19:44:04  <CIA-3> tron * r4555 /branch/bridge/ (67 files in 5 dirs): Sync with trunk up to r4554
19:44:23  <hylje> hmm, it could be fun to implement real physics
19:44:34  <black_Nightmare> hylje...consider this....
19:44:38  <hylje> bridge breaking when too heavy train goes over it
19:45:46  <RichK67> yeah, but my patch is currently 522kB... arrgghh!!  amazingly it actually compiles with only a few small warnings (routines defined but not used, etc)
19:45:46  <black_Nightmare> one co builds a long diagonal line....and another co wants to cross it with a straight mainline
19:45:46  <black_Nightmare> happens a lot of the times meh
19:45:46  <RichK67> tunnels are your friend :)
19:45:59  <black_Nightmare> richk....try tunnel when someone has already done so or terrain doesn't make it so :p
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19:46:21  <black_Nightmare> oh yeah did I mention I sometimes hate trying to make a tunnel just to find that the other end is blocked by someone else having built their track on a slope?
19:46:25  <black_Nightmare> ^_^
19:46:26  <RichK67> then choose somewhere else to cross ;)
19:46:39  <black_Nightmare> *pokes richk*
19:46:40  <hylje> :>
19:46:47  <black_Nightmare> you're weird -and- I want these new airports of yours
19:46:48  <black_Nightmare> :p
19:46:58  <black_Nightmare> hehehe
19:48:18  <peter1138> RichK67: your landscape generator -- does it put void tiles in the right places?
19:48:18  <Sacro> i might go into linux after eating, do some programming
19:48:18  <RichK67> im not sure :)
19:48:18  <RichK67> it has a VOID placing routine borrowed from the PNGload patch
19:48:18  <black_Nightmare> any of you know whats the use of these lighthouses and signal towers?
19:48:18  <hylje> black_Nightmare: blocking your way
19:48:20  <Patrick`> they are disadvantages
19:48:31  <Triffid_Hunter> i just hit my vehicle limit :/
19:48:48  <Patrick`> increase it
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19:49:25  <peter1138> RichK67: cos the africa scenario was b0rked, apparently
19:49:44  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: bridges over signals / diagonal track / almost anything: this is being worked on
19:49:54  <hylje> :>
19:50:07  <RichK67> oh - then its in the PNGload patch then... I built that without TGP
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19:50:13  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: tenders are already supported as 'articulated' engines, use a set such as dbsetxl or ukrs and you will have coal tenders
19:50:55  <black_Nightmare> peter..yeah? hm ok...because the reason I was wondering was because...
19:51:11  <hylje>
19:51:16  <hylje> oops, mispaste
19:51:22  <black_Nightmare> an articulated engine is like equal the length of any two standard engines in the game .. then add its tender
19:51:34  <black_Nightmare> kinda like one of these large steam engine was 1.5 tiles long :-)
19:51:35  <peter1138> what? heh
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19:51:56  <peter1138> articulated in ottd means "automatically build extra parts"
19:51:56  <black_Nightmare> look up a real one (eg Big Boy ... N&W .. etc) and they are so
19:52:08  <black_Nightmare> oh...that word... jeeze.
19:52:09  <peter1138> some of the engines in the usset are built from 3 parts
19:52:10  <black_Nightmare> meh
19:52:16  <hylje> black_Nightmare: then put three of those to one train
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19:53:14  <RichK67> beyer garrett in tropical set is 3
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19:54:25  <black_Nightmare> hmm yeah....the actual thing was 3 parts too :p
19:54:32  <RichK67> peter1138: can i have a technical chat (private)
19:55:39  <black_Nightmare> front&rear tenders.. and the hanging boiler/cab
19:56:04  <peter1138> RichK67: sure
19:56:20  <peter1138> RichK67: tropical set is old and doesn't use nice features like articulated engines :(
19:56:41  <RichK67> yeah, uzurpator hasnt updated in a loooooooong while :(
19:56:51  <peter1138> there's a 2-8-8-2 'Mallet' in NARS which is 3 parts
19:57:02  <RichK67> yeah - thats a beyer garrett
19:57:27  <peter1138> ah
19:57:36  <RichK67> oh sorry - brain failure
19:58:13  <RichK67> there is another name for beyer garrett, i think its the designer's name or something, used in the tropical set
20:01:49  <black_Nightmare> if there was a usa articulated engine choice.....I know what I really want on a long coal train :p
20:01:52  <black_Nightmare> the N&W Y6b
20:02:01  <black_Nightmare> it wasn't much to look at but could haul serious
20:02:03  *** ZsoL [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:02:05  <RichK67> peter1138: ping - please join private chat :)
20:02:14  <peter1138> "join"
20:02:27  *** ZsoL [] has joined #openttd
20:02:29  <UnderBuilder> have someone noted that the trains can't be reffited to oil in temperate, or rubber in tropic?
20:02:32  <peter1138> just message me...
20:02:57  <RichK67> ughh.... ive a whole window available... (dont like command lines!)
20:04:33  <peter1138> black_Nightmare: the usset has Y6b
20:04:51  <peter1138> and (omg) it's 4 parts
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20:07:07  <black_Nightmare> lol :p
20:07:26  <black_Nightmare> I know some about the actual thing anyhow (and not to mention several pages of one 'Trains' magazine for just that very engine here too)
20:07:27  <black_Nightmare> ;-)
20:08:32  <UnderBuilder> [17:02] <UnderBuilder> have someone noted that the trains can't be reffited to oil in temperate, or rubber in tropic? >>>> nobody responses me?
20:08:47  <RichK67> come on - only 6 mins ago ;)
20:09:17  <RichK67> which trains, which wagons
20:09:47  <MeusH> UnderBuilder - these are liquid cargoes, it's difficult to fill the engine with liquid
20:10:10  <RichK67> omg - logic!
20:10:10  <UnderBuilder> but in desert, water yes can be reffited
20:10:22  <hylje> omg logic fails
20:10:48  <peter1138> which wagons? heh
20:10:54  <peter1138> RichK67: i messaged you... so...
20:11:01  <RichK67> yeah - bug is probably that water can be refitted
20:11:06  <UnderBuilder> the engines
20:11:17  <UnderBuilder> I believe all the originals
20:11:17  <peter1138> which engines?
20:11:19  <RichK67> peter1138 i messaged back... did you get anythign
20:11:22  <peter1138> no
20:11:25  <RichK67> ah
20:11:35  <peter1138> UnderBuilder: the original engines are, uh, not refittable...
20:11:51  <peter1138> (except for the ic125)
20:11:58  <peter1138> (and possible the dmus)
20:12:04  <UnderBuilder> I mean the sh 125, the millenium Z1, etc.
20:12:09  <UnderBuilder> and the dmu's
20:13:35  <peter1138> they shouldn't really be refittable to anything but passengers or mail
20:13:36  <RichK67> the goods compartment on those are really all meant for mail. allowing goods is a bonus. liquids is silly ;)   but you should be able to say "no cargo" to avoid loading mail at a refinery
20:13:42  <peter1138> (and that's debatable)
20:14:04  <peter1138> or not use a passenger engine for a freight service... i dunno
20:14:15  <valhallasw> RichK67: what about liquid containers?
20:14:18  <RichK67> yeah - ive only ever seen 1 HST with a non-passenger rake... and that was just other locos
20:14:31  <RichK67> (stock movement)
20:15:35  <RichK67> valhallasw - refitting an HST/Z1 to take a liquid cargo is silly - it doesnt make sense; they are passenger vehicles by design. taking anything else is just....well... odd
20:15:46  <RichK67> (although useful in OTTD)
20:16:38  <[Shaman]> Anybody got an estimation on the data-usage on a server (per client)
20:16:47  *** |VillageIdiot| [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:16:52  <valhallasw> <-- that idea ;)
20:16:57  <hylje> refitting a plane to carry water = win
20:17:02  <peter1138> [Shaman]: "not a lot"
20:17:08  <RichK67> istr something around 2-3kB/sec
20:17:19  <peter1138> yeah
20:17:35  <[Shaman]> sweet
20:17:54  <[Shaman]> now to get my old linux skills back in action and compiling that thing...
20:18:04  <[Shaman]> will be.. interesting...
20:19:18  <UnderBuilder> or make something the sets in TTDP, where there are engines only for cargo, others only for freight, or both
20:20:57  <peter1138> ...
20:21:07  <peter1138> like that which we already support?
20:21:46  <Patrick`> no, he wants a version for people who don't do any research
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20:25:09  <peter1138> oh, right
20:30:23  *** chu [] has joined #openttd
20:30:27  <chu> hi
20:32:23  * Brianetta wiblle-wobbles
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20:32:52  * valhallasw wibbles Brianetta
20:33:22  <MeusH> hi chu
20:33:24  *** ZsoL [] has joined #openttd
20:33:50  <chu> who the hell translates "engines" into "maschinen"?
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20:34:15  <hylje> some weird kerman
20:34:19  <chu> looks like someone is using altavistas babelfish to translate ttd :-((
20:35:19  <Brianetta> Die Lokomotive, according to my dictionary
20:35:37  <Qball> das tjoe tjoe
20:35:44  <peter1138> chu, well, fix it? :)
20:35:59  <RichK67> i dont know, i always try to connect my inclined slopes and data paths to my trolleys :)
20:36:43  <RichK67> (planes , buses, trucks  :) )
20:37:04  <Xeryus|douche> peter1138: how is the newstations comming?
20:37:24  *** Xeryus|douche is now known as XeryusTC
20:37:42  <Brianetta> engine, enn-dschinn, n
20:37:42  <Brianetta>  Maschine f; (car) Motor m; rail Lokomotive f
20:37:50  <Brianetta> Everybody should get paper dictionaries (:
20:38:01  <Brianetta> and painstakingly copy the words from them, like me
20:38:24  <chu> peter: i'm on my way :-)
20:38:48  <chu> Brianetta: "Lokomotive" or short "Lok" is the correct word in this context
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20:39:07  <chu> But your dictionary lists other correct translations
20:39:13  <Brianetta> chu: The "rail" should give it away to an English speaker
20:39:47  <hylje> zug
20:40:01  <RichK67> peter: you know the "problem" that when you add a patch to OTTD, old saves dont load, and its not likely to load in a future version.... i think i have a strong solution
20:40:53  * Sacro is under linux and considers deving
20:42:10  <Brianetta> hylje: Thought that referred more to an entire train
20:42:23  <Brianetta> Sacro: Linux is definitely an improvement.
20:43:13  * Brianetta prepares to compile a nightly
20:43:14  <Celestar> hi peops
20:43:20  <Brianetta> Celestar: We love you
20:43:27  <Celestar> is that so?
20:43:34  <Brianetta> Indeed.
20:43:58  <XeryusTC> hi Celestar
20:44:14  <Celestar> what did I do=? :P
20:44:14  <Celestar> 
20:44:24  <Brianetta> elrails, mostly
20:44:26  <Celestar> oh
20:44:32  <Celestar> there's more
20:44:37  <MeusH> you are our guru
20:44:37  <Celestar> but also problems
20:44:39  <Celestar> look:
20:44:45  * MeusH thinks about station statistics
20:44:49  <Celestar>
20:44:59  <hylje> right
20:45:00  <Tron> chu: don't bother, it's fixed (again) already
20:45:06  <Celestar> Tron: hi.
20:45:14  <guru3> stop saying guru
20:45:19  <guru3> it highlights my name
20:45:20  <Tron> Celestar: aren't you supposed to be not here
20:45:21  <Tron> ?
20:45:22  <Celestar> Tron: I've begun ripping MP_TUNNELBRIDGE apart on the flight.
20:45:27  <chu> Tron: indeed. i see it (althoug wt2 is not quite understandable...)
20:45:32  * Brianetta looks at the bmps
20:45:44  <Celestar> Tron: Hotel has free WLAN (but only in the lobby, my room is too far away)
20:45:47  <RichK67> hi hi celestar :)
20:46:05  <Tron> chu: also some other nonesense got fixed, like Liter{P "" s}
20:46:10  * Brianetta LOLs
20:46:17  <hylje> Celestar: what hotel
20:46:20  <Brianetta> I just slide-show'd them
20:46:27  <Celestar> RichK67: hi :) fix your scenario, will you?
20:46:30  <Tron> <Celestar> Tron: I've begun ripping MP_TUNNELBRIDGE apart on the flight. <--- i.e.?
20:47:02  <RichK67> i will once someone tells me what is wrong, where it is wrong, and how to fix it ;)
20:47:09  <chu> Tron: i saw that too, but "manage" seems not to work in wt2 - at least with opera
20:47:25  <Celestar> Tron: my idea is to have tunnel tiles on the one hand, and road and rail bridge tiles, that just have some additional bridge information, but with the very basic layout of their "parent" tiles. much less special casing then for custombridgeheads.
20:47:33  * Brianetta updates nightly
20:47:36  <Brianetta> It's away...
20:47:40  <Celestar> RichK67: Africa doesn't have VOID tiles.
20:47:58  <Brianetta> Client can't connect
20:48:05  <hylje> what is a VOID tile
20:48:07  <Brianetta> Helps if I type make after my update
20:48:09  <Celestar> Brianetta: "development gone wrong"
20:48:12  <RichK67> ive heard, but it should... and i have no idea how to edit/add them... .they should have been added by PNGload
20:48:40  <Brianetta> Slovak has four untranslated strings
20:48:51  <Brianetta> console_cmds.c:96: warning: `ConStopAllVehicles' defined but not used
20:48:54  <Brianetta> DV's favourite (:
20:49:44  <RichK67> and how/why does this problem - does anyone have a link actually showing it....  suddenly appear after Africa has been out live for 5 months???  code change maybe ???   any others affected?
20:49:48  <KUDr> hmm - ConStopAllVehicles - i useit a lot
20:49:49  <chu> ahh. pngload is really used - wow unbelieaveable :-)
20:50:25  <Brianetta> console_cmds.c:96: warning: `ConStopAllVehicles' defined but not used until KUDr's changes get merged
20:50:26  <Tron> RichK67: what's the symptom?
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20:50:42  <RichK67> I HAVE NO IDEA.... noone will tell me .... im not psychic!!
20:50:58  <hylje> whats the problem really
20:51:02  <hylje> or error
20:51:08  <RichK67> they just say "it is broken"... gee thanks
20:51:09  <Celestar> RichK67: neither have I
20:51:34  <Brianetta> Why do so many UKRS players choose to use passenger express locomotives to haul coal around?
20:51:45  <Celestar> RichK67: I just know the void tiles aren't there.
20:51:46  <black_Nightmare> what you mean?
20:51:52  <Sacro> Brianetta: which train?
20:51:58  <hylje> because its efficient or simple?
20:52:02  <Tron> does anybody have the defective sav/scn?
20:52:16  <Brianetta> 4-4-0 express
20:52:35  <RichK67> celestar: so why does the issue show now?? if it was VOID tiles, it should have shown months ago
20:52:43  <RichK67> in fact instantly
20:52:55  <peter1138> not necessarily
20:53:01  <peter1138> not if no-one plays it ;p
20:53:12  <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: In UKRS, using an expensive-to-run but fast passenger loco to pull coal is a waste of money, because coal wagons can't travel very fast.  One might as well use a cheap tank engine or a slow, powerful freight loco.
20:53:15  <Tron> <Tron> does anybody have the defective sav/scn?
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20:53:37  <Celestar> BAH conn sucks
20:53:45  <hylje> then ill say because those people dont have a clue
20:54:03  <RichK67> ive not been linked to anything... until i see evidence, im not doing nothing ;)
20:54:18  <hylje> RichK67: double negative
20:54:36  <RichK67> and a wink
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20:54:57  <Tron> does the sav/scn you're talking about even exist?
20:55:24  <hylje> ghost scn :o
20:56:09  <peter1138> Brianetta: but don't worry, i'm close to having the extra text displayed
20:56:14  <Born_Acorn> (21:54:14) <Brianetta> Why do so many UKRS players choose to use passenger express locomotives to haul coal around? <---- They probably use cheats.
20:56:46  <Born_Acorn> So when they get Multiplayer, they still use em!
20:56:57  <hylje> :o
20:57:07  <Born_Acorn> (The express trains, not the cheats)
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20:57:34  <Brianetta> Oooh, does the nightly now save passwords?
20:58:39  <Brianetta> Both my server's companies are passworded
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20:58:39  <Tron> Celestar, RichK67: hello? do you have the sav/scn you're talking about?
20:58:43  <Celestar> BAAHAHHHH
20:58:49  <Celestar> I lose my WLAN connection every 15 seconds
20:59:12  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:59:16  <hylje> thank god for irssi?
20:59:54  *** Trippledence_ [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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21:00:21  <Celestar> Tron: DCC
21:00:28  <Celestar> ACK
21:00:40  <Tron> ENODCC
21:00:55  <Celestar> try again
21:01:04  <hylje> use a higher level protocol plx
21:01:05  <Celestar> use the Africa scnarios
21:01:14  <RichK67> tron - other half just called me away
21:01:19  <Celestar> my conn dies every vew sec.
21:01:22  <Celestar> few*
21:01:38  <Celestar> note to self: on next trip, take better WLAN cables
21:01:42  <RichK67> i know nothing about this problem other than what i have been told here since i arrived after a weekend away
21:02:28  <hylje> wlan and cables are mutually exclusive
21:02:47  <Celestar> RichK67: I was investigating, but couldn't find it.
21:03:00  <Celestar> RichK67: I've read TGP. nice patch.
21:03:04  *** ZsoL [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:03:08  <Celestar> BUT: we NEVER compute a TileIndex manually
21:03:13  <Celestar> ALWAYS use TileXY(x, y);
21:03:15  *** ZsoL [] has joined #openttd
21:03:27  <RichK67> VOID problems usually show in smallwindow, with player view
21:03:28  <Celestar> and we don't use SetTileType
21:03:38  <Celestar> but MakeVoid for example.
21:03:43  <RichK67> celestar .... you did when i wrote the patch ;)
21:03:56  <Celestar> Ritrue :)
21:04:00  <Celestar> RichK67: true
21:04:03  <Celestar> ok this is getting on my butt
21:04:05  <RichK67> lol
21:04:08  <Celestar> stupid WLAN
21:04:33  <Tron> <RichK67> VOID problems usually show in smallwindow, with player view <--- show in what?
21:05:47  * Celestar considers unplugging the WLAN AP he's setting at and use his RJ45 cable
21:05:47  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm working a bit on custombridgeheads.
21:05:47  <Celestar> doing nice progress.
21:05:47  <Celestar> I only have a flying train problem.
21:05:47  <RichK67> i couldnt remember name... the map view window thingy, with the players button pressed
21:05:47  <peter1138> i noticed
21:05:47  <hylje> omg flying trains
21:05:47  <Tron> the minimap?
21:05:57  <RichK67> yeah
21:06:01  <Celestar> hylje: check the link
21:06:09  <RichK67> except africa works in r4555 for me...
21:06:27  <Celestar> ok I'm heading to bed.
21:06:33  <RichK67> so VOID must be ok
21:06:36  <Celestar> RichK67: it WORKS.
21:06:41  <peter1138> RichK67: not all bugs become apart instantly
21:06:44  <peter1138> err
21:06:46  <RichK67> bogus bug report
21:06:48  <RichK67> ?/
21:06:49  <RichK67> ??
21:06:50  <peter1138> *apparent
21:06:56  <Celestar> most of the code is rather stable about MP_VOID.
21:07:04  <Celestar> RichK67: OPF for ships is not.
21:07:12  <Celestar> try it.
21:07:23  <Tron> ships wrap around?
21:07:29  <Celestar> Tron: no pathfind.c asserts
21:07:40  <Tron> even better
21:07:54  <Celestar> assert(TileX(tile) != MapMaxX() && TileY(tile) != MapMaxY());
21:07:58  <RichK67> oh btw... i think i may have a solution for loading patched games that will future proof OTTD & patches
21:08:07  <Celestar> ok cu some other time
21:09:14  <Celestar> (possibly tomorrow evening)
21:09:14  <Celestar> I have a patch to update.
21:09:14  <RichK67> lol - just one ;)
21:09:14  <Celestar> well.
21:09:38  <Celestar> the custombridgehead patch
21:09:45  <Celestar> 4555 killed parts of it.
21:09:49  <RichK67> btw - there is a current bug in TGP - the industry placer can destroy towns!
21:10:06  <Celestar> RichK67: oh
21:10:15  <Tron> 4555 is a sync of the bridge branch
21:10:35  <peter1138> print GetTileType(MapMaxX())
21:10:35  <peter1138>  = MP_WATER
21:10:41  <RichK67> my test to see if it can terraform is clearly not quite good enough
21:10:45  <peter1138> tum te tum
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21:11:55  <RichK67> let me just check this - is VOID a strip down *each* edge, or just the two?
21:12:30  <Tron> lower right and left edges
21:12:31  <peter1138> just the bottom two, i think
21:13:09  <Tron> it's necessary to be able to calculate slopes for the last row of "normal" tiles
21:13:12  <RichK67> thats what i thought... so does africa have 1 tile not set, or is it a whole strip?
21:13:24  <Tron> because every tile just stores the height of its north corner
21:13:59  <Tron> so if you want to calculate the slope of a tile you need 3 neighbouring tiles (left down, down, right down)
21:14:06  *** Mucht [] has joined #openttd
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21:14:24  <peter1138> the whole strip
21:14:26  <MeusH> Tron: thank you!
21:14:27  <RichK67> i know i had "fun" with TGP when it tried to place strips near the edge... so i built the coastlines feature to ensure a nice crinkly, (and > 2) border
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21:14:31  <MeusH> Thank you so much
21:14:38  <Tron> ?
21:14:48  <MeusH> now I can really control my measurement patch
21:15:01  <Tron> ?
21:15:04  <MeusH> height measurement is really weird, now, especially on slopes
21:15:15  <RichK67> peter - i have no idea how to modify africa to have the strip
21:15:16  <MeusH> it is inaccurate
21:15:19  <peter1138> ahh, you removed some of the magic behind slopes :)
21:15:42  <Tron> RichK67: there's already code in openttd.c, which adds void tiles
21:15:53  <Tron> there was a bug, which also didn't add them
21:16:10  <Tron> just remove the version check and load the scenario and save it again
21:16:12  <MeusH> cya
21:16:13  *** MeusH [] has quit ["Goodbye"]
21:16:17  <RichK67> so, why not always call the routine when a file is loaded to guarantee painting of mp_void?
21:16:46  <peter1138> prevention / cure / etc
21:16:50  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! Our benevolent guru of newgrf. Give us newstations!
21:16:54  <Tron> that would be just one of a zillion possible inconsistencies
21:17:18  <RichK67> ->  RichK67: oh btw... i think i may have a solution for loading patched games that will future proof OTTD & patches
21:17:43  <Tron> you're repeating yourself without giving any deatils
21:18:11  <RichK67> its involved, and i wasnt going to type it all out mid conversation :)
21:18:33  <RichK67> are you guys interested? i could even code it for you
21:18:33  *** dupier [] has quit ["go do something. anything. seriously."]
21:19:07  * Brianetta says guru just to get on guru3's tits
21:20:20  <Brianetta> RichK67: You keep coding at this rate, and you're going to have IN and the Rich's Patches Edition of OpenTTD to maintain
21:20:36  <RichK67> what it is: the "trunk" _patches are a pretty stable bunch. add a parallel feature for user patches.... eg. _user_patches. this is saved in the savegame, with a *known* template identifier... so you can tell a) what patches were installed, b) what the settings were, c) any additional data that is needed to be saved (eg. newgrf files) can be identified
21:21:29  <Brianetta> ...with a legacy loader for old games and Patch saves?
21:21:33  <RichK67> then when you load, an interpreter can compare your installed patches against the patches listed in the game, and translate the game as required
21:22:14  <RichK67> yes, effectively... but as it is tag-identified, the patch writer can add their case to the SELECT (tag_id).. in the interpreter
21:22:30  <Brianetta> This new loader will have to be able to scan both trunk and user patches for trunk patches
21:22:41  <stillunknown> you're thinking of making c modular mods?
21:23:28  <RichK67> no - the classic trunk patch vars etc stay as they are - controlled by the dev team
21:24:14  <RichK67> all trunk needs to do is say "oh... its the _user_patches tag.... ignore it (unless the loader has been patched to translate it)"
21:24:38  <RichK67> use the TLV notation as well; tag, length, value (data)
21:24:50  <RichK67> *extremely* flexible
21:25:23  <RichK67> it is actually how credit cards use customised data during transactions with the ICC gold chip
21:25:33  <RichK67> (my worK)
21:26:15  <stillunknown> this would assume that any patch in existence would never break trunk compatibility
21:26:25  <Brianetta> The reason I said that it's have to be able to load trunk patches from user, is for old saved games, saved with a patch which was later merged
21:26:48  <RichK67> effect on trunk is minimal: add a new structure like current _patches, but called _user_patches. add the load/save tag in saveload.c
21:28:00  <RichK67> not a problem; each patch would have a unique id - (not a number, i was thinking 10chars of text). this is used to say "these are the settings for...."
21:28:23  <stillunknown> this still leaves the fact that patches can alter things on which normal features rely
21:28:47  <RichK67> so if a patch is upgraded to trunk, the translation code gets trunked for that patch id, perhaps with a "deprecated" status tag
21:29:54  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:30:27  <Brianetta> stillunknown: It does, but it at least means that cross-patch saved gamesd are possible, rather than impossible.
21:30:49  <RichK67> still: not a problem; it doesnt change any of that.... the killer right now, is that if the patch adds a setting that needs to be saved, that savegame cannot be loaded into any other one than one that *perfectly* matches. this would give you a way to translate between them (if possible), or deny the load if not possible (and tell you what patches & newgrfs it was saved with)
21:31:32  <stillunknown> a newer release would be able to deal with it
21:31:48  <Tron> RichK67: check the PNG specification
21:31:54  <RichK67> any release after its inclusion will be able to load old ones
21:31:55  <stillunknown> as it knows the savegame revision and what to do with the information
21:32:19  <RichK67> Tron: huh? for what? sorry i missed the connection there
21:32:19  <Patrick`> that's a bothersome limitation
21:32:26  <Tron> just do it
21:32:32  <Patrick`> there's only a distinction between patched and unpatched for "can a join B network game"
21:32:46  <Tron> PNG has stuff like optinal frames and some status information along with it
21:33:18  <Brianetta> Perhaps we should change the saved game format to some sort of IFF
21:33:32  <RichK67> yeah, i actually deal with this format every day - not PNG, but its known as BER-TLV... can use optional templates, interpret bits, etc
21:34:13  <RichK67> Tron: you would like me to knock this together and test?
21:34:35  <Brianetta>
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21:34:44  <Tron> i don't think it works
21:35:00  <stillunknown> what you actually want (i think) is a mod interface, because you need a constant factor
21:35:00  <Patrick`> just use XML
21:35:02  <peter1138> Brianetta: "4-4-0 'Express' (Steam)", "Suitable for: Passengers"
21:35:20  <Tron> a modification can alter the behavior and game state in a way which is inconsistent from the point of view of a unmodified version
21:35:43  <stillunknown> but a mod interface has limits, which are known
21:36:01  <stillunknown> a sourcecode patch can change many essential things
21:36:06  <peter1138> yeah, my bridges over diag tracks didn't change much (heh)
21:36:17  *** Mukke [] has quit []
21:37:05  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4556 /branch/yapf/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [YAPF] Add: FindNearestDepot support for roadvehs
21:37:15  <Brianetta> stillunknown: It can change as much as it likes, as long as, when it saves a game, it writes into that game that the file is from a radically modified verison of the game and shouldn't be loaded without patch X.
21:37:46  <Brianetta> Then the player can see a message on screen, telling them this.
21:37:57  <Brianetta> Instead of watching the game cough and die
21:38:17  <RichK67> tron: yes... so the load may fail on those... but if it currently creates settings, it is 100% a guaranteed fail now, but may actually work (eg. if you apply Speed Signs, then the actual game-data is 100% compatible because i use unused map bits, but because i use 2 settings, the savegame wont load)
21:39:01  <RichK67> yeah - it can say "this game requires patches X, Y, and Z, which you do not have; load anyway?"
21:40:16  <Brianetta> As a bystander, not a dev, I support RichK's proposed saved game modification.
21:40:18  <RichK67> it doesnt need to understand the *data* beyond the standardised format patch-id-name in the known tag structure; so plain trunk will always be able to identify what patches were used, even if it doesnt support them
21:41:21  <RichK67> Brianetta; in a way it doesnt actually change the savegame much at all; only adds 1 tagged structure. support for the contents of that structure are then independent of the trunk savegame
21:43:30  <RichK67> coding this i reckon is a couple of evenings work (for me)... 1 to mod the basic trunk, 1 to convert a patch to save the right stuff and test the two together
21:43:34  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, weren't you working on a new version of diag track under bridges?
21:43:51  <peter1138> no, tron is, and there's a branch
21:44:11  <Born_Acorn> :O
21:44:50  <peter1138> hmm
21:44:52  <Born_Acorn> How inspiringly suprising.
21:44:53  <peter1138> Capacity: (refittable)
21:45:07  <RichK67> can i have a go-no go for this from the devs, pls... i dont want to waste time on this if there is no chance on it hitting trunk, etc...
21:45:18  <Born_Acorn> I feel like donating my net worth x 50 to peter1138 right now!
21:45:26  <RichK67> ie. if it works, does it go in?
21:45:42  <Born_Acorn> What is the feature? (in short)
21:46:00  <RichK67> lol - about the last 3 screenfuls ;)
21:46:14  <Born_Acorn> Precisely why I wanted it in short :p
21:46:37  <stillunknown> almost like a old savegame loader, which identifies if features are absolutely neccesary for a savegame to load
21:46:51  <Born_Acorn> How handy.
21:47:08  <RichK67> okies - a minor addition of a user-patch save feature, that will allow a non-patched version to query the game and determine/maybe translate whether it will work in that version
21:47:50  <stillunknown> but from the games perspective it's getting a savegame of a newer version
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21:48:00  <stillunknown> since that has more features
21:48:03  <hylje> for that to work in a really user-friendly way, shouldnt there be an automagical patch repository
21:48:59  <RichK67> hylje: no - trunk only side will be "dumb" - it will just be capable of reading the name identifier, but not understand any of the data (doesnt need to)
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21:51:31  <Darkvater> OMG
21:51:38  <Darkvater> got home 30 minutes ago
21:51:45  <Darkvater> 11 hours on the tennis court :S
21:51:55  <KUDr> wow
21:52:21  <Born_Acorn> youch
21:52:56  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4557 /trunk/newgrf_text.c:
21:52:56  <CIA-3> - NewGRF: translate from TTDPatch control codes to our own, instead of just simple validation. We still perform
21:52:56  <CIA-3> validation on any unhandled character.
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21:53:14  <Born_Acorn> Sleeping on a tennis court for 11 hours will hurt.
21:54:05  <RichK67> ok... ill bbl
21:54:22  *** RichK67 is now known as RichK|away
21:58:59  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: draw
22:01:59  <Darkvater> about the void tiles people, I fixed both scenarios
22:07:02  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4558 /trunk/console_cmds.c: - Fix: 'stopall' was moved to debug, so move the function there as well.
22:09:17  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, bang bang, your're dead.
22:09:32  * Born_Acorn was quick on the draw this time
22:09:33  *** BJH_ [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:09:42  <Darkvater> 9 minutes
22:09:56  <peter1138> damn
22:10:56  <Brianetta> peter1138 was rummaging in his briefcase for a pistol
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22:23:38  <Darkvater> michi_cc: ping
22:24:40  *** RichK|away is now known as RichK67
22:24:49  <Darkvater> ey RichK67
22:24:53  <Darkvater> RichK67: MP_VOID
22:24:55  <RichK67> hiya DV
22:25:11  <Darkvater> RichK67: I fixed your scenarios (canyonero and africa), it's up on SF and all again
22:25:12  <RichK67> i dont know what happened there.. i blame PNGload :)
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22:25:35  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4559 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_engine.c newgrf_engine.h): - NewGRF: keep a record of which grf an engine is defined in. Will be used in the future.
22:25:37  <RichK67> also, it was a long time ago :)
22:26:01  <Darkvater> :)
22:27:18  <RichK67> peter1138: ping    have you done the code to save/identify what newgrfs are loaded?  this could be a good test of this _user_patch save thing, as its basically a very very similar data structure needed (ie. patch_name = newgrf_name)
22:27:47  <peter1138> not that similar
22:28:09  <peter1138> it stores a the filename, an id, a list of parameters and a checksum
22:28:28  <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4560 /trunk/win32.c:
22:28:28  <CIA-3> - Fix: (r3008) Remove VS2005 undefined vsnprintf() as it doesn't exist in the
22:28:28  <CIA-3> windows libraries (only _vsnprintf). This caused the bad function to be called
22:28:28  <CIA-3> that could result in non-properly terminated strings. Thanks for noticing Tron.
22:29:01  <RichK67> totally - mine stores a template - so after the filename, the id, params & checksum are just the data items in the template
22:29:07  <Darkvater> RichK67: why don't you just use a new SaveLoad chunk for th euser patches?
22:29:35  <RichK67> that is effectively what it is, but one that doesnt need trunk to know precise lengths etc.
22:30:02  <Darkvater> so how do you know when you are done with the section?
22:30:17  <RichK67> so trunk can try to load something with extras it doesnt understand, sees it doesnt know them, and advises the user
22:30:59  <Darkvater> that sounds very much like the existing 'unknown tag found, aborting' part already in
22:31:05  <Darkvater> just ignoring now instead of aborting
22:31:08  <RichK67> two parts; 1st says "upcoming patch section; length of section will be; name of section is;"
22:31:53  <RichK67> the 2nd part is data for section but now with known length... so you can read it, and if you know you dont know it, discard it
22:31:59  <Darkvater> 1st part already exists. It's called chunk-id like PATS and length is automatically calculated
22:32:19  <RichK67> ok - this is useful info - thanks DV
22:32:49  <Darkvater> the question is what you mean by 'know you dont know it'
22:33:03  <RichK67> i was proposing an idea, and asking devs, but if most of mechanism already exists, fantastic ... i only then need to split _user_patches from _patches
22:33:12  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4561 /trunk/ (newgrf_callbacks.h vehicle_gui.c vehicle_gui.h): - NewGRF: implement most of callback 0x23: additional text in vehicle purchase windows.
22:33:23  <Darkvater> all you would need I guess is functionality to just ignore an unknown chunk (eg skip it) instead of aborting
22:33:43  <Darkvater> peter1138: working down your 100KB patch ;)
22:33:54  <RichK67> ah... well idea is that patch writers would add a recognition section in their part of saveload, and so if the patch is loaded, it gets interpreted
22:35:11  <RichK67> sorry   loaded = installed
22:35:11  <Darkvater> hmm, ok that doesn't exist
22:35:11  <Darkvater> although you can do it with a chunk for each user-patch and ignore functionality
22:35:11  <RichK67> if it is not installed, there will be no identifier - so basic trunk will be able to say "i am missing SpeedSigns"
22:35:39  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4562 /trunk/train_gui.c: - NewGRF: Add additional vehicle text to train engine and wagon purchase information. Other vehicle types to come.
22:36:23  <peter1138> Darkvater: still loads left :)
22:36:27  <RichK67> main thing is to create a parellel of _patches structure (plus the patch_id) called _user_patches... then all user added stuff is kept clear of the core trunk _patches which is handled via normal saveload areas
22:36:27  <Darkvater> ;)
22:36:30  <Darkvater> freetype!
22:36:35  <peter1138> yeah, and utf8
22:37:11  <Darkvater> although I don't fully agree with you
22:37:20  <Darkvater> you said speedsigns is safe because it uses unused bits
22:37:22  <Darkvater> what if
22:37:23  <peter1138> with me?
22:37:25  <peter1138> oh
22:37:27  <Darkvater> 1. we start using those bits
22:37:28  <Darkvater> no RichK67
22:37:29  <Darkvater> or
22:37:38  <peter1138> good, cos i'm sleeping now
22:37:50  <Darkvater> 2. we don't properly & those bits and read it anyways, assuming it is 0?
22:37:55  <Darkvater> peter1138: good point
22:37:57  * Darkvater concedes
22:38:44  <RichK67> yes, it screws up... but no different to any current patched savegame... however post-patching if core trunk starts using those bits, the patch writer could write a versioned-interpreter section in the saveload user_patches area to move the bits elsewhere
22:39:33  <Darkvater> and all this to load miniIN savegames (for example) in trunk?
22:39:44  <RichK67> nope - nothing to do with it...
22:39:45  <peter1138> seems a lot of effort
22:39:47  <peter1138> but, nini
22:39:58  * Darkvater puts peter1138 to bed
22:40:04  <RichK67> to make it more flexible and future proof all round
22:40:19  <Patrick`> hmm
22:40:35  <Darkvater> it is future proof :)
22:40:36  <RichK67> same logic of identifying what newgrfs were used when a game was saved...
22:40:42  <Patrick`> unless the mini-in had a lot of map alterations, I don't see why the saves aren't compatible
22:40:45  <Darkvater> openttd-0.1.0 and even before are loaded perfectly
22:40:46  <Darkvater> ;)
22:42:22  <RichK67> patrick'  : miniIN changes a lot, but yes, the core saved data is probably ok... its only the patch additions to settings.c that break loading in normal trunk... im not saying it will work ok in trunk, but it may load... may....
22:42:23  * Darkvater offskis
22:42:25  <Darkvater> gn all :)
22:42:27  <RichK67> cya DV
22:42:41  <Darkvater> RichK67: *hint* use Da<tab> ;)
22:42:58  <Darkvater> gn :)
22:43:16  <RichK67> Da<tab> ??  (sorry not looked at saveload yet... im hypothetical atm)
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