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00:00:55 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 00:01:53 * SimonRC wonders if MeusH was making a deliberate reference to "Lemon party". 00:07:22 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-136-46.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"] 00:10:49 <meeps> lol 00:10:59 <meeps> mmm 00:11:06 <meeps> i like lemons (homer simpson voice) 00:16:34 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit ["<volcone> tycker inte man borde få idrotta i skolan, eftersom man springer så jävulskt mkt i wow"] 00:40:16 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:40:58 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 00:47:28 *** spoot [n=hell_no@spoot.xs4all.nl] has quit [] 00:55:17 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 00:58:55 *** Zahl22 [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-209-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 01:00:32 *** Angst [n=Angst@p549455C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [""cal 9 1752""] 01:16:57 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-207-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:23:38 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 01:24:33 *** Torrasque [n=jerome@232.118.76.83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 02:05:03 *** Skiddles^ [n=notme@cm249.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 02:07:05 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 02:11:46 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B35D9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:37:01 *** Zahl22 [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-209-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit ["YOU! It was you wasn't it!?"] 02:49:36 *** Skiddles^ [n=notme@cm249.epsilon120.maxonline.com.sg] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:09:13 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 03:26:37 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:33:49 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691922180.direcpc.com] has joined #openttd 03:43:53 <Tobin> Hmm. 03:44:06 <Tobin> I should check out the YAPF branch. 04:35:15 <Celestar> morning 04:37:27 <Celestar> MiHaMeK: I can't contact flyspray 04:51:42 <Celestar> KUDr: if possibly, can you take into account that we have multi-tile waypoints in the future? 05:02:04 <Darkvater> ha, who is awake now! 05:02:14 <Darkvater> wtf, Celestar what are you doing at 7AM? 05:02:32 <Celestar> Darkvater: I *should* be packing 05:02:52 <MiHaMeK> Celestar: what do you mean contact? 05:03:06 <Celestar> the server doesn't respond 05:03:19 <MiHaMeK> Celestar: ahh, so as wiki and others? 05:03:25 <Celestar> it's 57005 05:03:27 <MiHaMeK> Celestar: i'm going to fix it, damn apache2 05:03:32 <Celestar> MiHaMeK: yuck 05:03:44 <Celestar> just wasn't sure whether you knew it. 05:04:08 <Darkvater> you guys are insane 05:04:13 <Darkvater> it's Sunday for god's sake 05:04:15 <MiHaMeK> Celestar: thanks for reporting, wasn't knew it 05:04:26 <MiHaMeK> Celestar: it should be working now 05:04:27 <Celestar> Darkvater: I'm flying to Spain this morning 05:04:35 <Celestar> yes MiHaMeK 05:04:39 <MiHaMeK> Celestar: ok 05:04:45 <MiHaMeK> bbl 05:04:55 <Darkvater> cool 05:04:59 <Darkvater> have agreat time :) 05:05:08 <Celestar> Darkvater: I'm on a 3-day-conference. 05:05:13 <Celestar> not sure it'll be great :P 05:06:13 <Darkvater> hehe 05:06:21 <Darkvater> well we'll see, we'll see 05:06:27 <Celestar> http://www.siam.org/meetings/nc06/index.php 05:06:39 <Darkvater> I'll see you guys during the day again :) 05:07:01 <Celestar> http://meetings.siam.org/sess/dsp_programsess.cfm?SESSIONCODE=5256 <= so cross your fingers 05:08:13 <Celestar> up to 3 concurrent sessions. 05:08:38 <Celestar> Darkvater: peter1138: Tron: we should define what features we want in 0.5.0 05:19:36 <Tron> make a suggestion 05:20:59 <Celestar> 1) elrails, 2) the bridge stuff, 3) YAPF (no PBS yet), 4) some gui improvements (sortable station list (finished), smallmap zoom (finished, but ugly)) 5) more airports, 6) terragenesis 05:23:32 <Celestar> for that large a release, we could consider releasing 2-3 beta versions before the final one 05:23:47 <Celestar> currently most our x.y.0 releases are not overly stable 05:26:12 <Celestar> 7) multi-tile waypoints 05:28:21 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:35:15 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 05:42:33 <Celestar> 8) vast part of newgrf working 05:45:43 <Celestar> MiHaMeK: I have another "severity" to add to flyspray 05:46:03 <Celestar> "Blocker" 05:46:19 <Celestar> but ok, I'm off 05:52:13 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit ["Go on, get out. Last words are for fools who haven't said enough. - Karl Marx"] 06:30:03 <peter1138> morning 06:33:25 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 06:52:03 *** Skiddles^ [n=notme@cm9.epsilon123.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 06:57:03 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 06:57:26 <MeusH> hello 06:59:59 <Skiddles^> Bye 07:00:01 *** Skiddles^ [n=notme@cm9.epsilon123.maxonline.com.sg] has left #openttd ["Leaving"] 07:01:00 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:02:55 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-61-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:12:55 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:13:01 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 07:26:56 <Celestar> hey peter1138 07:29:24 <peter1138> hi :) 07:30:55 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.13.112] has joined #openttd 07:34:15 <peter1138> hmm, i need to switch the endianness of a 32bit uint 07:35:08 <Celestar> TO_BE or something? 07:37:42 <Tron> peter1138: unconditional switch? 07:38:39 <peter1138> Tron: it's that damned grfid thing again, heh 07:38:43 <peter1138> we switch it on load 07:38:54 <peter1138> but sometimes other places load a grfid 07:38:58 <Tron> ah, the "today were .... *TADAAA* big endian" 07:39:16 <peter1138> maybe it's simplest just to load it like everything else 07:39:25 <peter1138> and just alter it for display 07:39:26 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:39:27 <Celestar> BAH 07:39:34 <Celestar> I hate programs trying to outsmart me. 07:39:45 <Tron> just write a load grf_uint32_BE function or something 07:39:55 <Celestar> in Matlab, font size seem to depend on screen width. 07:40:12 <Tron> omg 07:40:16 <Celestar> as my "screen width" is 2560 pixels (I have two 1280x1024 monitors), I get THAT large letters. 07:40:24 <Celestar> so I set font size to about 4 points. 07:40:47 <Celestar> now when you disconn one of the monitors for one reason or another, you can't read a thing 07:40:56 <Tron> uh... pt are supposed to be the same size everywhere, independent of resolution/dpi/whatever 07:41:12 <Celestar> Tron: so I thought 07:41:19 <Celestar> seems we were both wrong 07:41:22 <Celestar> :P 07:41:49 <Celestar> somehow they make some computations with display size/display resolution. 07:42:05 <Celestar> but take the whole TwinView resolution and only one monitor's size 07:42:17 <Celestar> would be too easy to just read out the resolution 07:42:48 <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici]> xdpyinfo | grep resolution 07:42:48 <Celestar> resolution: 104x98 dots per inch 07:42:53 <Celestar> very hard :S 07:42:56 <peter1138> Tron: problem is there are places where it may or may not be a grfid, heh 07:43:01 <peter1138> (it's a parameter, see) 07:43:10 <Tron> it would probably even easier to just let the f...ine font library handle that stuff 07:44:24 <Celestar> again, too easy. 07:44:33 <peter1138> hmm 07:44:35 <Celestar> compute stuff yerself is the way to go. 07:44:46 <Tron> peter1138: calling this newgrf stuff a gross, ugly hack would be an understatement, wouldn't it? 07:44:51 <peter1138> yes 07:44:53 <Celestar> next release, they'll prolly write an own kernel for their program. 07:45:55 <Celestar> we need to gain enough momentum to have you-sers create datafiles in our own, proper, format 07:47:07 <Celestar> or: 07:47:18 <peter1138> speaking of font handling... http://195.112.37.102/ottd/utf8-2.png 07:47:20 <Celestar> create our own format and have some newgrf-to-something-decent converter 07:48:46 <peter1138> even the same format but xml instead of binary would be better 07:49:13 <peter1138> then you don't have to be concerned with reading such and such many bytes in such and such order 07:49:14 <Celestar> that would be not too difficult to implement methinks 07:49:27 <Celestar> would it? 07:49:32 <peter1138> (mind, the same can be said of the savegame) 07:49:36 <TL|Away> Who should I shoot.... Darkvater? Yeah, I think Darkvater.... :p 07:49:40 <TL|Away> console_cmds.c:96: warning: `ConStopAllVehicles' defined but not used 07:49:43 <Tron> given that newgrf is turing complete, it's impossible to write a converter 07:49:53 <Celestar> Tron: ? 07:50:31 <Tron> that goto label stuff makes it turing complete (except for the fact that memory is finite, of course) 07:51:02 <Tron> but still 128 32bit parameters make it impossible to handle it in a sensible amount of time 07:51:22 <Celestar> I'm still not sure what we're talking about? 07:52:09 <peter1138> Celestar: nfo can make branches depending on values, and it can set values 07:52:22 <peter1138> thus you can perform loops etc 07:52:31 <peter1138> if you're sick enough :) 07:52:46 <peter1138> xml isn't well suitable to that sort of thing 07:53:22 <Celestar> TTDPatch wrote a turing complete data file? 07:53:31 <peter1138> evolved 07:53:34 <Tron> even worse 07:53:45 <Tron> it's ugly and turing complete 07:54:07 <peter1138> could be worse, could be brainfuck 07:54:11 <peter1138> not that it's far off, mind 07:54:19 <Tron> i think we should create a format based on Malbolge, that would be at least a bit saner 07:54:35 <Tron> brainfuck is _very_ sensible for its purpose 07:55:09 <Celestar> that raises the question of the purpose :P 07:55:29 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D9E9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:55:42 * peter1138 looksup malbolge 07:55:48 <Tron> it's a turing complete language with minimal syntax 07:56:07 <Celestar> Tron: we need a format that we can convert nfo into. 07:56:12 <Celestar> ... 07:56:16 <Celestar> EPARSE 07:56:19 <Tron> and the commands are quite sensible: move to left/right, add/subtract one, ... 07:56:21 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E78F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:56:21 <Tron> nothing sick 07:57:06 <MeusH> how about c instead of xml? 07:57:16 <MeusH> similiar to .gpmi's AIs 07:57:28 <Celestar> C is not a good thing to store data 07:57:37 <MeusH> hmm 07:57:39 <MeusH> but c is human readable 07:57:44 <Celestar> XML is too 07:57:51 <MeusH> but is nfo a good thing to store data? 07:58:00 <peter1138> yes 07:58:10 <peter1138> as long as you don't want it easily gettable again ;) 07:58:27 <MeusH> openttd.cfg utilizes inifile. It is good to store data 07:58:33 <MeusH> it could be combined 07:58:43 <MeusH> c and inifile instead of nfo 07:58:48 <Celestar> I think we should use MySQL to store data *runs* 07:58:57 <MeusH> c for processing and inifile for storing thata 07:59:00 <MeusH> s/thata/data 08:01:20 <MeusH> and the good thing is that inifile implementation has been already implemented ;] 08:09:02 <stillunknown> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/133 <-- reminder :-) 08:10:07 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 08:14:32 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:16:34 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-161-147.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 08:23:17 <MeusH> cya 08:23:22 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 08:24:31 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B77685.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B73ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:35:50 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 08:40:57 *** |Jeroen| [n=users@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:41:14 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:48:06 *** dupier [i=id11@client-87-247-124-57.turbozone.lt] has joined #openttd 08:50:44 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:55:06 *** tokai|3 [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:57:10 <XeryusTC> good morning people :) 08:57:35 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.67.187] has joined #openttd 09:03:40 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 09:07:25 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B804C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:29:52 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-209-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 09:35:06 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@81.213.67.187] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:38:27 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"] 09:42:17 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:43:01 *** dp [n=dp@p54B2E464.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:24 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 09:44:46 *** Sian^_^ [n=Devilen@cpe.atm2-0-74539.0x50c6d2c6.virnxx17.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:46:27 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4537 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: replace if cascade with a switch block in the sprite group loader 09:50:50 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:58:21 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2EDCA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:58:21 *** dp is now known as dp-- 10:08:13 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@pcsousek.fit.vutbr.cz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:08:33 <Naksu> hey 10:08:39 <Naksu> what's wrong with if cascades? 10:09:52 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:11:20 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.34.28] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:15:37 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3E64B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:47 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3E8EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 10:15:49 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 10:16:32 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.34.28] has joined #openttd 10:23:14 <stillunknown> bridge branch is very broken 10:23:56 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 10:24:17 <MeusH> hi 10:24:21 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:25:28 <Tron> stillunknown: which part of the commit log was unclear? 10:26:25 <Tron> was it "UNSTABLE" or "EXPERIMENTAL" or "FOR DEVELOPMENT ONLY"? 10:29:05 <CIA-3> tron * r4538 /branch/bridge/ (83 files in 7 dirs): Sync with trunk up to r4537 10:30:56 <stillunknown> i don't remember the commit log, since it was a while ago when i read it 10:31:15 <stillunknown> i merely made an observation, never said i expected to be stable 10:31:53 <valhallasw> what is the bridge branch actually? 10:32:12 <valhallasw> a branch for signals on bridges and bridges crossing eachother? 10:32:39 <stillunknown> no, an attempt at allowing more things under bridges 10:32:40 <Tron> read the commit log FFS 10:33:35 *** x87 [n=x87@tor/session/external/x-e7cbf95e63281780] has joined #openttd 10:36:47 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 10:41:39 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176121170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:47:53 <XeryusTC> KUDr: ping 10:47:59 <KUDr> pong 10:48:02 *** _Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #openttd 10:48:21 <XeryusTC> i have found a small problem in yapf 10:48:40 <KUDr> describe and provide savegame plz 10:49:16 <XeryusTC> it seems that it likes to send trains on a branch of my mainline which is about 256 tiles long just because the mainline is too occupied 10:50:10 <KUDr> how many of first 10 signals on main line are red? 10:50:12 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4539 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: always check that the action 0x2 feature matches the action 0x1, not just on 'normal' sprite groups. 10:50:40 <XeryusTC> just 1, sometimes 2 or 3 10:51:02 <KUDr> it applies 5 tile penalty for the first one 10:51:06 <KUDr> then 4,5 10:51:08 <KUDr> then 4 10:51:11 <KUDr> and so on 10:51:33 <KUDr> does it seem to be too much? 10:51:52 <XeryusTC> that seems weird, it needs to go about 128 tiles to the end of the branch, 128 tiles to go back to the mainline and then another 100 tiles to go to my mainline station 10:51:53 <KUDr> how much longer is the other branch? 10:52:12 <KUDr> aaa 10:52:16 <XeryusTC> its destination is about 200+ tiles from the branch 10:52:17 <KUDr> which rev? 10:52:53 <XeryusTC> 4523 10:53:10 <KUDr> 4536: [YAPF] Fix: decreased look-ahead red signal penalty - should fix crazy train looping (thanks yanek) 10:53:36 <KUDr> you should always look into svn and get the latest 10:53:46 <KUDr> it is under development 10:53:58 <XeryusTC> ok 10:54:04 <XeryusTC> im updating :) 10:54:14 <KUDr> very soon there will be another important change 10:54:36 <KUDr> but thanx anyway 10:55:02 <KUDr> it confirms that 4636 makes sense 10:55:07 <KUDr> 4536 10:55:10 <peter1138> hmmm 10:55:15 <peter1138> 2855+> dir = GetNewVehicleDirectionByTile(gp.new_tile, gp.old_tile); 10:55:21 <peter1138> print gp 10:55:24 <peter1138> = {x = 552, y = 557, old_tile = 9506, new_tile = 8738} 10:55:29 <peter1138> #4 0x080ce570 in GetNewVehicleDirectionByTile (new_tile=8738, old_tile=34) at train_cmd.c:2567 10:55:35 <peter1138> 9506 -> 34 ... 10:56:02 <XeryusTC> KUDr: it seems to be fixed :D 10:56:10 <KUDr> ok, thanx 10:56:25 <peter1138> 552 or 557 / 16 = 34. hmm. 10:56:44 <XeryusTC> np 10:57:32 <peter1138> hmm, and 9506 % 256 = 34 10:57:48 *** Red [n=Red@81-86-117-11.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:03:43 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:13:08 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4540 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: don't treat integer values as boolean. 11:15:19 <Naksu> haha 11:15:30 <Naksu> that's a good idea 11:27:29 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:37:10 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946D74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:40:11 <MeusH> cya 11:40:12 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 11:43:59 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 11:54:15 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@AC8D6533.ipt.aol.com] has joined #openttd 11:58:08 <peter1138> Born_Acorn! 11:58:16 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! 11:58:18 <peter1138> i found a bug 11:58:20 <Born_Acorn> newstations! 11:58:21 <peter1138> in ukwaypoints :( 11:58:23 <Born_Acorn> :( 11:58:30 <peter1138> http://195.112.37.102/ottd/ukwaypointsw.grf < fixed 11:58:58 <peter1138> 1 byte larger, hurr 11:59:37 <valhallasw> now it doesn't fit on my floppy disk :p 11:59:57 <Born_Acorn> What was the bug? 12:00:14 <peter1138> one value is missing when copying layouts 12:00:42 <Born_Acorn> ah. 12:00:58 <peter1138> it copies the layout 4 times 12:01:07 <peter1138> but there are 6 stations, so it should be 5, heh 12:01:40 <Born_Acorn> reuploaded 12:01:45 <peter1138> \o/ 12:02:03 <Born_Acorn> Hopefully the next release will have new waypoints! 12:02:10 <peter1138> \o/ \o/ \o/ 12:12:55 *** Hallo [n=me@141.24.48.94] has joined #openttd 12:17:45 *** MrRexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-5398.bb.online.no] has quit ["edgepro: Sanity is a full time job."] 12:18:31 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-5398.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 12:18:47 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:18:55 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit ["leaving"] 12:19:02 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 12:28:10 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 12:35:33 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:37:33 *** ThePizzaKing is now known as TPK|Sleep 12:38:25 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181100200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:40:46 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:43:48 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:44:24 *** SmileyG [n=tim@pdpc/supporter/student/SmileyG] has left #openttd ["Leaving"] 12:53:17 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:53:40 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:54:56 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:55:02 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:56:30 *** Tron_ [n=tron@p54A3EE9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:56:40 *** Tron [n=tron@p54A3E64B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:56:42 *** Tron_ is now known as Tron 13:08:02 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:09:20 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 13:15:16 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has joined #openttd 13:15:52 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-140-142-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 13:16:03 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 13:17:13 <Sacro> afternoon all 13:23:55 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 13:26:44 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:34:02 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has joined #openttd 13:36:42 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:37:40 *** AciD [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 13:39:00 <webfreakz> KUDr? 13:39:08 <KUDr> here 13:39:16 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7DAA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:40:07 *** Andrew67 [i=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 13:41:42 <webfreakz> but not in private window? 13:41:54 <webfreakz> still doesn't work somehow :) 13:42:20 <webfreakz> KUDr, i got some compiler errors on /branch/YAPF/ using MSVC6 13:42:32 <webfreakz> it was due to some protected variable-error, changed the variable to public and it compiled perfectly. 13:42:43 <KUDr> webfreakz: i have 3 private discussions here and none comes from you 13:42:54 <KUDr> it must be on your side (pm) 13:43:05 <webfreakz> strange 13:43:19 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 13:43:20 <black_Nightmare> hey 13:43:24 <KUDr> webfreakz: i didn't check MSVC6 2 days 13:43:30 <KUDr> so it is possible 13:43:31 <webfreakz> i could send you the patch? 13:43:38 <webfreakz> or you could see yourself..? 13:43:39 <KUDr> yes 13:43:55 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:43:57 <KUDr> let me check 13:44:07 <KUDr> now i am dealing with gcc 13:44:15 <KUDr> this is bigger problem 13:44:35 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has joined #openttd 13:44:45 <KUDr> did you it by PM? 13:45:00 <KUDr> then you are not registered probably 13:45:14 <KUDr> on freenode 13:45:44 <webfreakz> i will see how to register 13:46:11 <webfreakz> /help op 13:46:56 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:47:33 <KUDr> webfreakz: when you connect, you see help 13:47:53 <webfreakz> KUDr: here's the patch: www.webfreakz.nl/zooi/yapf_protected_var.patch 13:48:21 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 13:48:25 <CIA-3> tron * r4541 /trunk/ (28 files): Add a type for slopes and replace many magic numbers by the appropriate enums 13:48:26 *** CobraA2 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 13:48:33 <glx> webfreakz: /msg nickserv help 13:48:48 <KUDr> webfreakz: ok, i will look at it now, got gcc working 13:48:51 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 3.81 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 13:49:23 <webfreakz> thx both :) 13:51:18 *** xahodo [n=xander@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [] 13:53:15 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:53:29 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:53 *** Antitheus [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 13:54:57 *** Antitheus [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:58:36 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has joined #openttd 13:58:54 *** UnderBuilder [i=UnderBui@168.226.106.151] has joined #openttd 13:59:14 <Sacro> afternoon all again 14:00:10 <webfreakz> ey sacro 14:06:21 <XeryusTC> heya Sacro 14:06:51 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:07:12 <UnderBuilder> hello sacro 14:07:26 *** Mucht|zZz_ [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 14:09:58 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:13:04 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 14:13:29 <MeusH> hello 14:14:35 *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:14:56 <webfreakz> ey 14:16:50 <XeryusTC> heya MeusH 14:17:35 *** |AciD| [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 14:19:50 *** AciD [n=gni@unaffiliated/acid] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:20:13 *** _AciD_ [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has joined #openttd 14:20:40 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [n=Qrr@p54A7DAA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:22:54 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4542 /branch/yapf/ (10 files in 2 dirs): 14:22:54 <CIA-3> [YAPF] Add: FindNearestDepot and CheckReverse support for trains (thanks Celestar) 14:22:54 <CIA-3> Add: red signal penalties depending on signal type (thanks yanek) 14:22:54 <CIA-3> Fix: VC6 compilation errors (thanks webfreakz) 14:22:54 <CIA-3> Fix: wrong 'best node' manipulation caused target info overwrite 14:22:55 <CIA-3> Remove: YAPF type 4 for ships and trains 14:27:12 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has joined #openttd 14:28:30 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4543 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: [YAPF] Add: penalty for trains passing stations 14:30:41 *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 14:32:41 *** Mucht|zZz_ [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:33:38 *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away] 14:33:40 <MeusH[away]> cya 14:33:48 *** |AciD| [n=gni@tehpwnz.org] has quit [No route to host] 14:35:02 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 14:35:34 *** KUDr_wrk [n=KUDr@pcsousek.fit.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 14:38:58 *** Qrrbrbirlbel [n=Qrr@p54A7DAA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:43:57 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.103.82.59] has joined #openttd 14:44:38 <webfreakz> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24703 14:52:37 <stillunknown> something specific? 14:54:31 <KUDr> stillunknown: something what needs to be havily tested 14:55:59 *** [Shaman] [n=nnscript@ip503c1f52.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:01:58 <CIA-3> tron * r4544 /trunk/ (25 files in 3 dirs): Merge two almost identical string (STR_1[08]00_LAND_SLOPED_IN_WRONG_DIRECTION) - one just contains two redundant words 15:03:45 <stillunknown> KUDr: i know that, but i thought there was something special to be seen 15:04:25 <KUDr> stillunknown: ok, and how many bugs did you found there? 15:05:27 <stillunknown> none, because i didn't do any serious testing (i have stuff i want to maintain and expand as well and that takes time too) 15:05:48 <KUDr> forget programing, do something reasonable :) 15:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> [23.04. 16:30] <CIA-3> KUDr * r4543 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: [YAPF] Add: penalty for trains passing stations <- did you consider there that newstations may have some sort of plain track tiles? 15:06:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> (if we ever would get newstations :p) 15:06:33 <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause2: no. I know nothing about newstations 15:06:54 <webfreakz> what with the newstations? 15:06:58 <webfreakz> what is it? 15:06:58 <KUDr> plain tracks will not be penalised 15:07:00 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: they're obsolete now 15:07:16 <peter1138> now that ttdp can do irregular stations 15:07:30 *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 15:07:47 <webfreakz> irregular stations? 15:07:55 <stillunknown> is it true that ottd is mostlty on a feature freeze until 0.5 comes? 15:08:01 <webfreakz> newgrf stations? or just strangely shaped stations? 15:08:17 <peter1138> more than just x by y layouts 15:09:04 <webfreakz> is there any wiki page for that/ 15:09:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: hmm... i always viewed that as some kind of "drive through" track... like in the middle of 2 parts of the stations... not necessarily with irregular stations 15:09:41 *** Qrrbrbirlbel_ [n=Qrr@p54A7DAA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> so i could maybe build 2 platforms (south bound) for passengers, 2 drive through lanes for freight, and 2 platforms (northbound) for passengers 15:10:26 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has joined #openttd 15:10:33 <stillunknown> KUDr: cc1plus: warning: command line option "-Wstrict-prototypes" is valid for C/ObjC but not for C++ 15:10:39 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2: but with irregular stations you don't need that 15:10:51 <stillunknown> and two more (similar errors), is this on my side or a known problem? 15:10:59 <KUDr> stillunknown: yes, ignore it. It is makefile problem 15:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but i have to magically join those 2 parts of the station... 15:11:12 <peter1138> stillunknown: no 15:11:20 <peter1138> (regarding feature freeze) 15:11:30 <peter1138> we can't permanently be in a freeze :) 15:11:47 <KUDr> would be nice :) 15:11:53 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 15:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> i would assume a freze comes when it goes beta 15:13:56 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 15:13:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> peter1138: we need an option to add tiles to stations without them being physically connected 15:14:07 <peter1138> yes 15:15:07 <ledow> www.ebay.co.uk 15:15:10 <ledow> bugger - sorry 15:16:44 *** coppercore [n=copperco@dpc691922180.direcpc.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:18:37 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 15:25:31 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 15:31:23 *** Jukex [i=yomo-771@y21.ip1.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 15:33:58 <Rexxie> does anyone feel like coding a "remove all trees" for the scenario editor? 15:34:15 <Rexxie> used ages to build a scenario and now the whole map is literally full of trees.. everywhere 15:37:39 <Patrick`> so? 15:37:43 <Patrick`> just ignore them 15:38:08 <Rexxie> kind of hard, you cant really build anything at all without the town authorities hating you 15:38:25 *** Sionide [n=sphinx@collaredlory2.hornet.uea.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 15:39:11 <Patrick`> it's challenging 15:39:15 <Patrick`> lay down the stations first 15:40:23 <Rexxie> its a little TOO challenging, I dont mind trees, but some of these islands doesnt have one square without a tree on it 15:41:10 <Rexxie> you get to build the station, then your town rating is appalling already, then you have to make tracks, and you spend AGES getting it to poor so you can build another station, bus stop, something :p 15:41:30 <Patrick`> not true 15:41:39 <Patrick`> demolish a square of land of trees, you'll go down to appalling 15:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> destroy a building instead :) 15:41:56 <Patrick`> tree it up again (just one pass, to make small seedlings) and your rating goes back up to "good" 15:42:15 <Patrick`> building trees only gives you good ratings if they go on totally bare soil 15:43:14 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:43:14 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 15:43:28 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:44:43 <Rexxie> well, thats not the way I want to play unfortunately, its not realistic nor is it a lot of fun 15:45:07 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 15:45:09 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-161-147.vodafone-net.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:45:10 <Rexxie> guess I'll look into the source, heh =/ 15:45:13 *** Hinrik [i=hinrik@ns.hax.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:46:55 <Patrick`> it's a workaround 15:51:00 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:55:13 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4545 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp: [YAPF] Fix: speed limit (i.e. bridges) implied too much cost penalty (thanks webfreakz) 15:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> can you apply speed limit penalty also for curves? 15:56:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> or is that too complex? 15:56:30 <KUDr> curves are penalised differently 15:57:02 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 15:57:36 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4546 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf.h rail_cmd.c): 15:57:36 <CIA-3> - NewGRF: add support for Action 0x05, type 0x04: replacement signal graphics. Thanks to Purno for supplying data to test 15:57:36 <CIA-3> with. 16:00:26 *** Andrew67 [i=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 16:02:59 <Patrick`> http://patrickthomson.ath.cx/warewolf2.jpg <-- aah, cgi 16:03:09 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:07:14 *** Hinrik [i=hinrik@ns.hax.is] has joined #openttd 16:10:40 *** kujeger [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:10:42 *** kujeger_II [n=kujeger@host-81-191-145-149.bluecom.no] has joined #openttd 16:11:49 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."] 16:23:45 <Brianetta> echo test 16:23:55 <Brianetta> forgot my / 16:23:56 <webfreakz> alpha bravo? 16:25:51 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-230-205.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 16:29:34 <ledow> openttd: slope.h:37: ComplementSlope: Assertion `!IsSteepSlope(s)' failed. <-- with latest SVN 16:34:01 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 16:35:23 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has joined #openttd 16:36:35 <Brianetta> Sacro 16:36:41 <Sacro> Brianetta 16:36:49 <Brianetta> You want your saved game from my server? 16:37:29 <Sacro> yeah, can do 16:37:43 <Sacro> you never updated it and left it on an incompatable revision :( 16:39:34 <Brianetta> Incompatible with what? 16:40:57 <Brianetta> http://www.ppcis.org/nightly/r4469.sav 16:41:37 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.34.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47:36 <Sacro> you left it at R4033 i think, and the windows compilation was 4034 so i couldnt join 16:49:28 <Brianetta> Well, that's Windows for you 16:49:37 <Brianetta> but the last revision I left it at was 4469 16:50:01 <meeps> hello there 16:50:03 <Brianetta> meeps 16:50:06 <meeps> anybody know what var restart_game_date does 16:50:09 <meeps> :) hello Brianetta :) 16:50:10 <Brianetta> yes 16:50:11 <ledow> Whoa... seems like there's some breakage on the latest SVN: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/135 Can't even get more than a few years into a game without that gappening. 16:50:30 <Brianetta> Highlander V: The Gappening 16:50:40 <ledow> lol *Happening* 16:50:58 <ledow> That's where they all start digging holes with their swords 16:50:59 <meeps> rcon mypass restartfrombeginning 16:51:05 <meeps> heh :D 16:51:11 <meeps> is there a manual for rcon? 16:51:14 <meeps> by any chance :D 16:51:16 <Brianetta> No 16:51:20 <Brianetta> rcon is the same as console 16:51:21 <meeps> thought as much, 16:51:25 <Brianetta> so use that page 16:51:26 <meeps> yes i know that. 16:51:29 <meeps> ahh 16:51:30 <meeps> :) 16:51:35 * meeps finds the console page 16:51:45 *** MeusH[away] [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:51:50 <meeps> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Console_Commands 16:51:52 <meeps> thanks very much 16:51:55 <ledow> Celestar: Darkvater: Anyone? http://bugs.openttd.org/task/135 <-- can't even play for than a few years without this happening on latest SVN. 16:52:26 <peter1138> saw the first time 16:53:14 <Brianetta> restart_game_date, btw, specifies a year at which the game is wiped for a new one. 16:54:37 <meeps> ok thanks Brianetta, i assume 0 never restarts 17:00:29 *** Akral [n=akral@nat4-29.iti.lt] has joined #openttd 17:02:47 <UnderBuilder> screenshot [big|nocon]: what is the nocon parameter? 17:04:59 <Vornicus> Controls, I think 17:07:58 <Sacro> if its under console im guessing it hides it 17:10:18 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd 17:10:43 <MeusH> hello 17:11:26 <webfreakz> hello 17:11:47 <webfreakz> meush, have you been working on the measurement patch? and have you seen my compile.log ? 17:14:08 <MeusH> let's see 17:14:11 <MeusH> is it on the forum? 17:14:22 <MeusH> I think I saw some .log 17:14:34 <MeusH> if you mean _cdcel or whatever warning, this is known in MSVC IMO 17:15:44 <webfreakz> yes, that's the one! :) 17:16:17 <MeusH> is it on the forum? 17:16:20 <MeusH> brb 17:16:34 <webfreakz> yes it is 17:18:41 <MeusH> back 17:18:51 <MeusH> okay I'll take a look at it 17:19:12 <webfreakz> thx :) 17:26:21 *** thgergo [n=th_gergo@dsl51B78886.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 17:27:12 * Sacro sings "you put the lime in the coke you nut and drink it all up" damn addictive advertising 17:27:27 <webfreakz> ? 17:31:07 <MeusH> webfreakz, is it on http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24551&start=0 ? 17:31:11 <MeusH> Or the other topic? 17:32:05 <MeusH> allright I see it 17:32:07 <MeusH> nevermind 17:32:14 <webfreakz> http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=432133#432133 17:32:19 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-155-19-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:29 <webfreakz> thats the post, it has 2 problems 1) the screenshot 2) the compiler 17:34:25 <MeusH> yeah, measuring is made in bad way 17:34:32 <MeusH> I hope I'll find some time to re-work it 17:35:00 <MeusH> about the error, does it happen in clean trunk compilation? 17:35:06 <YoG> help, i'm trying to run openttd, but getting: "no language pack / sample.cat file is corrupter or missing"... 17:35:15 <webfreakz> no it doesn't 17:35:21 <MeusH> If yes, then there is nothing wrong with measurement. http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=22119&highlight=c4096 has more info 17:35:26 <MeusH> hmm 17:35:29 <Tron> YoG: read the readme 17:35:50 <MeusH> YoG: you must supply sample.cat from TTD 17:35:56 <YoG> I did 17:35:57 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.34.28] has joined #openttd 17:36:06 <MeusH> then try the other one 17:36:11 <MeusH> there are many on net 17:36:15 <Patrick`> YoG: or a blank one 17:36:15 <MeusH> www.transporttycoon.net 17:36:19 <MeusH> and language packs come with OpenTTD 17:36:22 <webfreakz> Meush: i already used the method in last thread on your measurement tool and it worked if-i-remeber-clearly, but i thougt maybe there's a better solution for it? 17:37:06 <MeusH> webfreakz: does it return errors in ai_event.h? 17:37:10 <YoG> I'll try... 17:37:21 <MeusH> or in one of the files I have modified? 17:37:37 <webfreakz> you can see in the log what it does>? 17:40:54 *** spoot [n=hell_no@spoot.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:43:10 *** Xeryus|douche [n=irc@217.123.34.28] has joined #openttd 17:44:09 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.34.28] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:46:32 <MeusH> yeah, but the measurement patch has nothing to do with ai files 17:46:36 <YoG> empty sample.cat file didn't work. your saying i can get another sample.cat file from the network? 17:47:11 <glx> YoG: where did you put sample.cat? 17:47:22 <MeusH> it must be in /data/ 17:47:24 <webfreakz> http://www.owenrudge.net/download/download?t=1&id=129 17:47:29 <MeusH> along with .grf files 17:47:32 <webfreakz> download the sample.cat from there :) 17:47:38 <MeusH> good point glx :) 17:48:04 <YoG> "/user/share/games/openttd/data/" 17:48:18 <YoG> maybe its coniguration problem? 17:49:21 <YoG> thanx webfreakz, i'll try 17:50:06 <webfreakz> *away* 17:51:26 <Hinrik> YoG: gentoo user? 17:51:34 <Sacro> s/user/usr :) 17:51:53 <YoG> openzaurus 17:52:01 <Sacro> and it wants to be in ./data/ 17:52:07 <Hinrik> anyway, I can help you 17:52:21 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 17:52:26 <YoG> Sacro: I don't know 17:52:55 <YoG> Hinrik: What should I do? 17:52:56 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 17:53:26 <Sacro> whats the problem? 17:53:37 <Hinrik> YoG: private message 17:58:11 <CIA-3> tron * r4547 /trunk/town_cmd.c: Revert a part of r4541 to silence an assertion for now 17:59:05 <YoG> Hinrik: no good ;( 18:00:02 <webfreakz> whats the problem? 18:00:45 <YoG> "no available language packs / sample.cat file is cottupted or missing" 18:02:16 <Tron> this is no error message the game displays 18:02:38 <Patrick`> sure you're actually using openttd 18:02:43 <glx> YoG: how do you run openttd? 18:02:52 <YoG> Tron:? 18:02:54 <Patrick`> or are you translating it on the fly from your native language 18:03:08 <YoG> Patrick, the package name was openttd 18:03:16 <Tron> Patrick`: these kind of messages are not translated 18:03:19 <CIA-3> egladil * r4548 /branch/32bpp/ (92 files in 5 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4476:4546 from trunk. 18:03:21 <YoG> glx: "openttd" 18:03:37 <Tron> Patrick`: how could they, the message says there are no language files present 18:03:51 <Patrick`> it says "one of the preceeding 2 errors happened" 18:03:57 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4549 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf.h): - NewGRF: store the grf version from Action 0x08. 18:05:01 <Tron> copy&paste from the terminal starting from the command you used to start till the last line of output the game gave you, and if it's more than about 3 or 4 lines DON'T paste it in this channel 18:05:15 <Patrick`> put it into pastebin.com 18:05:28 <YoG> it's not long 18:05:34 <Patrick`> JUST TELL US 18:05:35 <Patrick`> sorry. 18:05:35 <YoG> just a sec 18:05:42 <Patrick`> the anticipation 18:06:12 <Tron> c&p in X is so dead easy *sigh* 18:06:59 <Patrick`> personally I prefer IRIX 18:07:51 <YoG> "root@c7x0:/usr/share/games/openttd# openttd 18:07:51 <YoG> [5440]:Connected to screen 'Transformed' 18:07:51 <YoG> Error: No available language packs 18:07:51 <YoG> Your sample.cat file is corrupted or missing! 18:08:20 <Prof_Frink> Tron: It's equally easy in Windows with TXMouse 18:08:29 <Tron> zeroth: don't start it as root 18:08:49 <Tron> first: don't start it as root 18:08:56 <Tron> second: don't start it as root 18:09:14 <YoG> I'm running it on a linux mobile device... or whatever you call it 18:09:15 <Tron> if anything bad happens to your box, it's your problem 18:09:28 <YoG> that's the way it works 18:09:44 <YoG> I don't have another user 18:09:48 <Tron> how did you install it? compiled it from source? or used the deb/rpm? 18:09:54 <Patrick`> mobile user? 18:10:13 <Patrick`> as in, that jackass who didn't honour the GPL and wrote his own wrapper around it? 18:10:26 <Patrick`> not you personally, but he did the port to zodiac 18:10:32 <YoG> i used ipkg 18:10:36 <Tron> what? 18:10:38 <spoot> tron: r4541 missed ai/trolly/pathfinder.c, is that correct? 18:10:52 <Patrick`> never mind, you're probably too young to remember 18:10:59 <YoG> i used ipkg to install it 18:11:01 <Tron> spoot: i probably missed a bunch of stuff 18:11:14 <YoG> something like deb 18:11:14 <Patrick`> http://esoftinteractive.com/openttd.html <-- that guy 18:11:16 <spoot> ah righty, ok :) was just wondering, it gave me some warnings 18:11:27 <Tron> warnings? 18:11:50 <spoot> yeah, you changed a couple of uints to Slope, but not in the above mentioned file, it will prolly still work though 18:12:00 *** Qball [n=qball@ipd50a4125.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:12:10 <Tron> ipkg doesn't remotly sound like it came from our download site, stick to the documentation this package or whatever it is comes with 18:12:12 <Qball> who implemented the "love" target for make? 18:12:27 <YoG> no, not from your website 18:12:35 <YoG> from the feed of openzaurus 18:12:43 *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"] 18:12:56 <Tron> Qball: somebody with a very crippled sense of humor 18:13:03 <YoG> Tron: thats exactly the problems, there are none 18:13:05 * Sacro found it funny 18:13:17 <valhallasw> Qball: I blame Chef, as member of the SUPER ADVENTURE CLUB! 18:13:20 <Tron> the joke was old even before i was born 18:13:28 <Qball> look in the Makefile 18:13:30 <Qball> of openttd 18:13:34 <Qball> there is a love: 18:13:55 <Tron> i know what's in the makefile 18:14:30 <Patrick`> YoG: ask the people you got it from then, they'll probably know 18:14:38 <valhallasw> make love -Os ;) 18:16:06 <YoG> Patrick: yeah I'll go back there... thanx anyway 18:16:19 <Tron> you could try strings openttd | grep / 18:16:23 <Patrick`> YoG: honestly, I don't think anyone here knows how they package it 18:16:32 <Tron> one of the lines should be a path 18:17:12 <YoG> Patrick: what do you mean? 18:17:44 <Patrick`> YoG: ignore me, I'm being reflective 18:27:26 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstations! 18:27:57 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4550 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_text.c newgrf_text.h): - NewGRF: update string system to new rules: a grf version of less than 6 uses the old scheme, of 7 or more uses the new scheme. (Moving targets, yay...) 18:28:09 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newcatenary! 18:28:18 <peter1138> what! 18:28:25 <peter1138> newsignals not enough in one day? 18:28:34 <peter1138> and 'newcatenary' will be tricky 18:28:43 <Born_Acorn> newcatenary! erailsw.grf is hardcoded to load, which smells. 18:28:44 <peter1138> as celestar created some extra sprites that ttdp doesn't have 18:29:07 <Born_Acorn> Dutchcatw.grf works if you rename it to erailsw.grf 18:29:11 <Born_Acorn> so there! 18:29:30 <peter1138> bridges have special treatment, iirc 18:29:46 <peter1138> try a bridge over troubled ^W elrails 18:30:22 <Born_Acorn> err. 18:30:35 <Born_Acorn> newstations! 18:31:03 <peter1138> what? :P 18:31:24 <Prof_Frink> peter1138! new.*! 18:31:44 *** YoG [n=zevele@bzq-88-155-19-178.red.bezeqint.net] has left #openttd [] 18:31:49 <Born_Acorn> newmoneyforbornacorn! 18:31:52 <meeps> how to delete my company for other players? 18:31:59 <peter1138> newwaypointsfrombornacorn 18:32:04 <meeps> lol :D 18:35:14 *** kujeger_II is now known as kujeger 18:35:21 <TL|Away> peter1138: bool new_scheme = _cur_grffile->grf_version < 7; <- what is wrong here? ;) 18:35:36 <peter1138> TL|Away: correct 18:36:36 <TL|Away> peter1138: correct as in: theline is correct, or I am correct? ;) 18:36:41 <peter1138> you are correct 18:36:51 <TL|Away> :p 18:36:57 <TL|Away> Bah, 30% packetloss 18:37:01 <TL|Away> hard to type 18:37:02 <Patrick`> what ISP? 18:37:04 <TL|Away> (SSH) 18:37:08 <Patrick`> happened to me before 18:37:11 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4551 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_station.c newgrf_station.h): - NewGRF: add string handling for newstations. 18:37:11 <Patrick`> I know, total pita 18:37:31 <TL|Away> it happens here foor 3mnths now 18:37:39 <TL|Away> fighting myass off at the ISP 18:37:47 <TL|Away> but I amthe only onecomplainnig 18:37:55 <TL|Away> so they say itis lcal 18:37:55 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4552 /trunk/newgrf.c: - NewGRF: fix braino... in r4550, new_scheme should true when the version is 7 or higher, not less than 7... 18:38:06 <peter1138> (thanks truelight) 18:38:15 <TL|Away> I call 3 places (reeaall pcs) noot llca 18:38:18 <TL|Away> LOL! 18:38:20 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has left #openttd [] 18:38:26 <TL|Away> Typing is hard 18:38:27 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:38:34 <peter1138> TL|Away: in english? 18:38:35 <TL|Away> yw peter1138 :) 18:38:43 <TL|Away> nevermind, logggin off 18:38:48 <TL|Away> I can't type like this 18:38:52 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:56 <TL|Away> is collecs the same keys 18:39:02 <TL|Away> so when I type reaallyyfstnoobd canread it:) 18:39:35 <TL|Away> bye :) 18:40:14 <peter1138> Born_Acorn: see, a newstations commit ;p 18:40:41 <Sacro> peter1138: ETA? 18:40:47 <peter1138> "a while" 18:41:59 <stillunknown> it's a shame so many things are "a while" :-) 18:42:16 <Qball> and never change 18:42:51 <Patrick`> mwahah 18:43:00 <Patrick`> I just spent £300,000 placing signals in one go 18:43:03 <Patrick`> with autocomplete 18:43:18 <peter1138> indeed, and i'm currently not compiling a build with the newstations gui in it, no... 18:43:28 <Patrick`> I had a triple-density lane running the length of the map, and I connected them all together into one track 12,000 tiles long 18:43:35 <Patrick`> and then bam, autocompletion 18:45:08 <peter1138> easily amused, eh ? :) 18:45:09 <stillunknown> is that a trunk feature? 18:45:48 <Patrick`> nope 18:45:57 <Patrick`> I'm having to use a patched 0.4.5 18:45:59 <Patrick`> the horror 18:46:05 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B815A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"] 18:46:13 * Sacro hides at the mention of signal autocompletion 18:46:17 <Patrick`> DO IT 18:46:44 <Patrick`> you can command me to create something small and useful in python if you want 18:46:48 <Patrick`> like the sample.cat decoder 18:46:54 <Patrick`> only it already exists 18:46:54 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 18:48:47 <Sacro> do what? 18:49:49 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 18:57:01 <MeusH> update and finalize signal autocompletion 19:00:21 <valhallasw> MiHaMeK: I guess you don't really need a fourth dutch translator? :P 19:00:31 <Sacro> i need to figure out how it works first 19:01:37 <[Shaman]> dutch translations suck anyways :P 19:01:40 <[Shaman]> english > dutch tbh 19:02:15 * valhallasw calls verdonk to kick [Shaman] to the UK 19:03:11 * Prof_Frink kicks him back 19:03:32 * valhallasw calls verdonk to kick [Shaman] to *anywhere* 19:03:33 <valhallasw> there. 19:03:51 * [Shaman] acks and sidesteps 19:04:21 <[Shaman]> no, seriously.. every watched the dutch subtitles on an 'american' movie 19:04:27 <[Shaman]> useless translations 19:04:28 <MeusH> english is the best in OpenTTD 19:04:34 <MeusH> it's difficult to translate it 19:04:39 <valhallasw> ehm [Shaman] 19:04:43 <Xeryus|douche> try english comedy with dutch subtitles ;) 19:04:49 <valhallasw> you can't compare movie subtitles to a game 19:05:01 <[Shaman]> valhallasw: Black and White 2 ? :p 19:05:24 <valhallasw> and you cannot compare native speakers with weird english translators 19:06:09 <[Shaman]> true that 19:06:20 <[Shaman]> but even from dutch games you end up getting sucky translations :/ 19:06:41 <[Shaman]> dutch game producer, makes an english game, but then -fails- to translate it nicely to dutch.. 19:06:46 <Prof_Frink> It's Free Software. If you don't like it, improve it. 19:07:02 <Patrick`> volunteer to do the dutch translations, you bloody idiot then 19:07:06 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 19:07:10 <Patrick`> you don't even need to know how to code 19:07:10 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176117202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:07:17 <valhallasw> :D 19:07:17 <[Shaman]> nah, i'm sticking with english 19:07:28 <valhallasw> I was one of the initial translators :P 19:07:44 <RichK67> lo folks 19:07:44 <[Shaman]> I'd rather program than translate any day tbh 19:08:40 <Sacro> i dont mind translating, but i only speak english, and i dont do that very well 19:08:42 <CIA-3> tron * r4553 /trunk/ai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): int and magic numbers -> Slope and DiagDirection 19:09:51 <MeusH> I was playing OpenTTD in english for over a year. Now I play polish. Why? Because I translate it. I am the only translator, I've made a good use of cases, genders and plurar forms and now playing translated OpenTTD is a pleasure 19:10:12 <MeusH> Before, polish translation sucked 19:10:15 <MeusH> very much 19:10:36 * [Shaman] nods 19:10:39 <valhallasw> yeah 19:10:45 <valhallasw> personal translations ftw ;) 19:10:59 <Patrick`> MeusH: exactly 19:11:02 <Patrick`> use what you code 19:12:02 <[Shaman]> code it like how you want to use it works good most of the times 19:12:12 <hylje> nerf shamans 19:12:12 <[Shaman]> (at least you'll love your own things then :P ) 19:12:31 <[Shaman]> yar, nerf shamans, buff rogues. </wow> 19:20:03 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:20:09 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 19:20:10 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B370D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:20:40 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176121170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:28:11 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newstation commit! woo! 19:29:06 <[Shaman]> anybody know how much bps each client takes on a multiplayer server? 19:30:00 <RichK67> ouch ... i go away for 2 days, and OTTD has 70+ commits, including a major! :) 19:31:35 <Patrick`> I write OSS that I use every day 19:31:48 <Sacro> RichK67: go away for a week :) might get 0.5.0 19:31:49 <Patrick`> and if there are aspects that I don't, I get help from someone that does 19:32:04 <Patrick`> even if they're not a coder, if they use it every day and keep me informed I benefit 19:32:08 <Patrick`> much like me and ottd 19:32:16 <RichK67> hope not - not got TGP and 6 new airports in yet ;) 19:32:46 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-230-205.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"] 19:33:49 *** jnmbk [n=jnmbk@85.103.82.59] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:34:36 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 19:34:52 <black_Nightmare> not sure if I had asked this before so sorry if I did but.... 19:35:04 <black_Nightmare> any thoughts on bridges being able to cross signalled track tiles? 19:35:16 <Patrick`> GOD I WANT IT 19:35:17 <Patrick`> SO BAD 19:35:18 <black_Nightmare> oftenly have to ask someone to delete their signal for me to cross their track..etc 19:35:23 <Patrick`> it's not currently possible 19:35:26 <Patrick`> black_Nightmare: tunnel underneath 19:35:28 <black_Nightmare> not easy when not all players are online 19:35:34 <black_Nightmare> patrick....meh....figures 19:35:35 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:35:37 <Patrick`> tunnels are just as good, and they have no speed limits 19:35:40 <CIA-3> tron * r4554 /trunk/ (17 files): Replace magic numbers by TILE_{HEIGHT,SIZE} 19:35:46 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 19:35:56 <Patrick`> you have 1 slope, a stretch without signals, and a slope. Exactly the same as a bridge 19:35:58 <black_Nightmare> patrick...yeah but then again you need a larger space to start a tunnel with 19:36:08 <Patrick`> not with build on slopes 19:36:13 *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:36:14 <Patrick`> you can pave over the edges 19:36:18 <black_Nightmare> unless someone invents a straight-down slope that doesn't need to be 3 tiles wide 19:36:39 <hylje> freeform terraforming would be the shit imo 19:36:39 <Patrick`> yep, it's called build on slopws 19:36:39 <MeusH> 2 tiles 19:36:45 <black_Nightmare> then again.. 90 degree curves are no fun at all as well :p 19:36:57 <black_Nightmare> hylje..very funny ;) 19:37:15 <hylje> =p 19:37:23 <black_Nightmare> well here's another question.... 19:37:35 <hylje> gogo 100km mountains one meter wide 19:37:53 <black_Nightmare> would there be a way that network patch settings could be saved seperately from your own settings? 19:38:16 <black_Nightmare> kinda annoying when one network map sets many different thing then you have to reset every single one back to your own wished way before you start your own map (offline) 19:38:38 *** DJ_Mirage [n=djmirage@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:39:04 *** FauxFaux_ is now known as FauxFaux 19:39:29 <MeusH> yes, it will be donw 19:39:31 <MeusH> done* 19:39:42 <MeusH> currently, you may just use lots of configs 19:39:49 <MeusH> meh, two configs 19:39:55 <MeusH> single- and multiplayer 19:40:36 <RichK67> hi meush 19:41:22 <black_Nightmare> one thing I've kinda wondered about was if you could have one 'wagon' marked as 0ton empty&loaded or is it not possible for some reason? 19:41:23 <RichK67> im having real problems trying to keep IN even vaguely in step with pace of development 19:42:11 <black_Nightmare> richk...me too..heh 19:42:26 <black_Nightmare> but one that I'll like to hear released is being able to bridge over diagonal tracks 19:43:04 <black_Nightmare> reason I asked about a 0ton wagon is ..... just for fun 19:43:25 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:43:28 <black_Nightmare> image having a large steam engine then attach one or two 'tenders' behind it and it doesn't really affect the train except for being 1/2 tile longer 19:43:35 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 19:44:04 <CIA-3> tron * r4555 /branch/bridge/ (67 files in 5 dirs): Sync with trunk up to r4554 19:44:23 <hylje> hmm, it could be fun to implement real physics 19:44:34 <black_Nightmare> hylje...consider this.... 19:44:38 <hylje> bridge breaking when too heavy train goes over it 19:45:46 <RichK67> yeah, but my patch is currently 522kB... arrgghh!! amazingly it actually compiles with only a few small warnings (routines defined but not used, etc) 19:45:46 <black_Nightmare> one co builds a long diagonal line....and another co wants to cross it with a straight mainline 19:45:46 <black_Nightmare> happens a lot of the times meh 19:45:46 <RichK67> tunnels are your friend :) 19:45:59 <black_Nightmare> richk....try tunnel when someone has already done so or terrain doesn't make it so :p 19:46:20 *** |Jeroen| [n=users@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit ["bla"] 19:46:21 <black_Nightmare> oh yeah did I mention I sometimes hate trying to make a tunnel just to find that the other end is blocked by someone else having built their track on a slope? 19:46:25 <black_Nightmare> ^_^ 19:46:26 <RichK67> then choose somewhere else to cross ;) 19:46:39 <black_Nightmare> *pokes richk* 19:46:40 <hylje> :> 19:46:47 <black_Nightmare> you're weird -and- I want these new airports of yours 19:46:48 <black_Nightmare> :p 19:46:58 <black_Nightmare> hehehe 19:48:18 <peter1138> RichK67: your landscape generator -- does it put void tiles in the right places? 19:48:18 <Sacro> i might go into linux after eating, do some programming 19:48:18 <RichK67> im not sure :) 19:48:18 <RichK67> it has a VOID placing routine borrowed from the PNGload patch 19:48:18 <black_Nightmare> any of you know whats the use of these lighthouses and signal towers? 19:48:18 <hylje> black_Nightmare: blocking your way 19:48:20 <Patrick`> they are disadvantages 19:48:31 <Triffid_Hunter> i just hit my vehicle limit :/ 19:48:48 <Patrick`> increase it 19:49:08 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:49:25 <peter1138> RichK67: cos the africa scenario was b0rked, apparently 19:49:44 <peter1138> black_Nightmare: bridges over signals / diagonal track / almost anything: this is being worked on 19:49:54 <hylje> :> 19:50:07 <RichK67> oh - then its in the PNGload patch then... I built that without TGP 19:50:12 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:50:13 <peter1138> black_Nightmare: tenders are already supported as 'articulated' engines, use a set such as dbsetxl or ukrs and you will have coal tenders 19:50:55 <black_Nightmare> peter..yeah? hm ok...because the reason I was wondering was because... 19:51:11 <hylje> http://ragnarosisserious.ytmnsfw.com/ 19:51:16 <hylje> oops, mispaste 19:51:22 <black_Nightmare> an articulated engine is like equal the length of any two standard engines in the game .. then add its tender 19:51:34 <black_Nightmare> kinda like one of these large steam engine was 1.5 tiles long :-) 19:51:35 <peter1138> what? heh 19:51:51 *** angerman [n=angerman@e181100200.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #openttd [] 19:51:56 <peter1138> articulated in ottd means "automatically build extra parts" 19:51:56 <black_Nightmare> look up a real one (eg Big Boy ... N&W .. etc) and they are so 19:52:08 <black_Nightmare> oh...that word... jeeze. 19:52:09 <peter1138> some of the engines in the usset are built from 3 parts 19:52:10 <black_Nightmare> meh 19:52:16 <hylje> black_Nightmare: then put three of those to one train 19:52:17 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@203.101.13.112] has quit ["Why is the alphabet in that order -- is it because of the song??? S.W. [Time wasted online: 12hrs 21mins 40secs]"] 19:53:14 <RichK67> beyer garrett in tropical set is 3 19:54:15 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:54:16 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:54:25 <black_Nightmare> hmm yeah....the actual thing was 3 parts too :p 19:54:32 <RichK67> peter1138: can i have a technical chat (private) 19:55:39 <black_Nightmare> front&rear tenders.. and the hanging boiler/cab 19:56:04 <peter1138> RichK67: sure 19:56:20 <peter1138> RichK67: tropical set is old and doesn't use nice features like articulated engines :( 19:56:41 <RichK67> yeah, uzurpator hasnt updated in a loooooooong while :( 19:56:51 <peter1138> there's a 2-8-8-2 'Mallet' in NARS which is 3 parts 19:57:02 <RichK67> yeah - thats a beyer garrett 19:57:27 <peter1138> ah 19:57:36 <RichK67> oh sorry - brain failure 19:58:13 <RichK67> there is another name for beyer garrett, i think its the designer's name or something, used in the tropical set 20:01:49 <black_Nightmare> if there was a usa articulated engine choice.....I know what I really want on a long coal train :p 20:01:52 <black_Nightmare> the N&W Y6b 20:02:01 <black_Nightmare> it wasn't much to look at but could haul serious 20:02:03 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:02:05 <RichK67> peter1138: ping - please join private chat :) 20:02:14 <peter1138> "join" 20:02:27 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 20:02:29 <UnderBuilder> have someone noted that the trains can't be reffited to oil in temperate, or rubber in tropic? 20:02:32 <peter1138> just message me... 20:02:57 <RichK67> ughh.... ive a whole window available... (dont like command lines!) 20:04:33 <peter1138> black_Nightmare: the usset has Y6b 20:04:51 <peter1138> and (omg) it's 4 parts 20:05:09 *** Akral [n=akral@nat4-29.iti.lt] has quit ["Don't worry, be happy!"] 20:07:07 <black_Nightmare> lol :p 20:07:26 <black_Nightmare> I know some about the actual thing anyhow (and not to mention several pages of one 'Trains' magazine for just that very engine here too) 20:07:27 <black_Nightmare> ;-) 20:08:32 <UnderBuilder> [17:02] <UnderBuilder> have someone noted that the trains can't be reffited to oil in temperate, or rubber in tropic? >>>> nobody responses me? 20:08:47 <RichK67> come on - only 6 mins ago ;) 20:09:17 <RichK67> which trains, which wagons 20:09:47 <MeusH> UnderBuilder - these are liquid cargoes, it's difficult to fill the engine with liquid 20:10:10 <RichK67> omg - logic! 20:10:10 <UnderBuilder> but in desert, water yes can be reffited 20:10:22 <hylje> omg logic fails 20:10:48 <peter1138> which wagons? heh 20:10:54 <peter1138> RichK67: i messaged you... so... 20:11:01 <RichK67> yeah - bug is probably that water can be refitted 20:11:06 <UnderBuilder> the engines 20:11:17 <UnderBuilder> I believe all the originals 20:11:17 <peter1138> which engines? 20:11:19 <RichK67> peter1138 i messaged back... did you get anythign 20:11:22 <peter1138> no 20:11:25 <RichK67> ah 20:11:35 <peter1138> UnderBuilder: the original engines are, uh, not refittable... 20:11:51 <peter1138> (except for the ic125) 20:11:58 <peter1138> (and possible the dmus) 20:12:04 <UnderBuilder> I mean the sh 125, the millenium Z1, etc. 20:12:09 <UnderBuilder> and the dmu's 20:13:35 <peter1138> they shouldn't really be refittable to anything but passengers or mail 20:13:36 <RichK67> the goods compartment on those are really all meant for mail. allowing goods is a bonus. liquids is silly ;) but you should be able to say "no cargo" to avoid loading mail at a refinery 20:13:42 <peter1138> (and that's debatable) 20:14:04 <peter1138> or not use a passenger engine for a freight service... i dunno 20:14:15 <valhallasw> RichK67: what about liquid containers? 20:14:18 <RichK67> yeah - ive only ever seen 1 HST with a non-passenger rake... and that was just other locos 20:14:31 <RichK67> (stock movement) 20:15:35 <RichK67> valhallasw - refitting an HST/Z1 to take a liquid cargo is silly - it doesnt make sense; they are passenger vehicles by design. taking anything else is just....well... odd 20:15:46 <RichK67> (although useful in OTTD) 20:16:38 <[Shaman]> Anybody got an estimation on the data-usage on a server (per client) 20:16:47 *** |VillageIdiot| [n=jurgen@d51A43FD0.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:16:52 <valhallasw> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Railroad_car_with_container_loads.jpg <-- that idea ;) 20:16:57 <hylje> refitting a plane to carry water = win 20:17:02 <peter1138> [Shaman]: "not a lot" 20:17:08 <RichK67> istr something around 2-3kB/sec 20:17:19 <peter1138> yeah 20:17:35 <[Shaman]> sweet 20:17:54 <[Shaman]> now to get my old linux skills back in action and compiling that thing... 20:18:04 <[Shaman]> will be.. interesting... 20:19:18 <UnderBuilder> or make something the sets in TTDP, where there are engines only for cargo, others only for freight, or both 20:20:57 <peter1138> ... 20:21:07 <peter1138> like that which we already support? 20:21:46 <Patrick`> no, he wants a version for people who don't do any research 20:22:20 *** Cheery [i=Henri@a81-197-61-21.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:23:11 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [] 20:25:09 <peter1138> oh, right 20:30:23 *** chu [n=chu@chu.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de] has joined #openttd 20:30:27 <chu> hi 20:32:23 * Brianetta wiblle-wobbles 20:32:37 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:32:52 * valhallasw wibbles Brianetta 20:33:22 <MeusH> hi chu 20:33:24 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 20:33:50 <chu> who the hell translates "engines" into "maschinen"? 20:33:52 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 20:34:15 <hylje> some weird kerman 20:34:19 <chu> looks like someone is using altavistas babelfish to translate ttd :-(( 20:35:19 <Brianetta> Die Lokomotive, according to my dictionary 20:35:37 <Qball> das tjoe tjoe 20:35:44 <peter1138> chu, well, fix it? :) 20:35:59 <RichK67> i dont know, i always try to connect my inclined slopes and data paths to my trolleys :) 20:36:43 <RichK67> (planes , buses, trucks :) ) 20:37:04 <Xeryus|douche> peter1138: how is the newstations comming? 20:37:24 *** Xeryus|douche is now known as XeryusTC 20:37:42 <Brianetta> engine, enn-dschinn, n 20:37:42 <Brianetta> Maschine f; (car) Motor m; rail Lokomotive f 20:37:50 <Brianetta> Everybody should get paper dictionaries (: 20:38:01 <Brianetta> and painstakingly copy the words from them, like me 20:38:24 <chu> peter: i'm on my way :-) 20:38:48 <chu> Brianetta: "Lokomotive" or short "Lok" is the correct word in this context 20:38:53 *** Sacro [n=root@83.100.253.166] has joined #openttd 20:39:07 <chu> But your dictionary lists other correct translations 20:39:13 <Brianetta> chu: The "rail" should give it away to an English speaker 20:39:47 <hylje> zug 20:40:01 <RichK67> peter: you know the "problem" that when you add a patch to OTTD, old saves dont load, and its not likely to load in a future version.... i think i have a strong solution 20:40:53 * Sacro is under linux and considers deving 20:42:10 <Brianetta> hylje: Thought that referred more to an entire train 20:42:23 <Brianetta> Sacro: Linux is definitely an improvement. 20:43:13 * Brianetta prepares to compile a nightly 20:43:14 <Celestar> hi peops 20:43:20 <Brianetta> Celestar: We love you 20:43:27 <Celestar> is that so? 20:43:34 <Brianetta> Indeed. 20:43:58 <XeryusTC> hi Celestar 20:44:14 <Celestar> what did I do=? :P 20:44:14 <Celestar> 20:44:24 <Brianetta> elrails, mostly 20:44:26 <Celestar> oh 20:44:32 <Celestar> there's more 20:44:37 <MeusH> you are our guru 20:44:37 <Celestar> but also problems 20:44:39 <Celestar> look: 20:44:45 * MeusH thinks about station statistics 20:44:49 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/wrong.tar.gz 20:44:59 <hylje> right 20:45:00 <Tron> chu: don't bother, it's fixed (again) already 20:45:06 <Celestar> Tron: hi. 20:45:14 <guru3> stop saying guru 20:45:19 <guru3> it highlights my name 20:45:20 <Tron> Celestar: aren't you supposed to be not here 20:45:21 <Tron> ? 20:45:22 <Celestar> Tron: I've begun ripping MP_TUNNELBRIDGE apart on the flight. 20:45:27 <chu> Tron: indeed. i see it (althoug wt2 is not quite understandable...) 20:45:32 * Brianetta looks at the bmps 20:45:44 <Celestar> Tron: Hotel has free WLAN (but only in the lobby, my room is too far away) 20:45:47 <RichK67> hi hi celestar :) 20:46:05 <Tron> chu: also some other nonesense got fixed, like Liter{P "" s} 20:46:10 * Brianetta LOLs 20:46:17 <hylje> Celestar: what hotel 20:46:20 <Brianetta> I just slide-show'd them 20:46:27 <Celestar> RichK67: hi :) fix your scenario, will you? 20:46:30 <Tron> <Celestar> Tron: I've begun ripping MP_TUNNELBRIDGE apart on the flight. <--- i.e.? 20:47:02 <RichK67> i will once someone tells me what is wrong, where it is wrong, and how to fix it ;) 20:47:09 <chu> Tron: i saw that too, but "manage" seems not to work in wt2 - at least with opera 20:47:25 <Celestar> Tron: my idea is to have tunnel tiles on the one hand, and road and rail bridge tiles, that just have some additional bridge information, but with the very basic layout of their "parent" tiles. much less special casing then for custombridgeheads. 20:47:33 * Brianetta updates nightly 20:47:36 <Brianetta> It's away... 20:47:40 <Celestar> RichK67: Africa doesn't have VOID tiles. 20:47:58 <Brianetta> Client can't connect 20:48:05 <hylje> what is a VOID tile 20:48:07 <Brianetta> Helps if I type make after my update 20:48:09 <Celestar> Brianetta: "development gone wrong" 20:48:12 <RichK67> ive heard, but it should... and i have no idea how to edit/add them... .they should have been added by PNGload 20:48:40 <Brianetta> Slovak has four untranslated strings 20:48:51 <Brianetta> console_cmds.c:96: warning: `ConStopAllVehicles' defined but not used 20:48:54 <Brianetta> DV's favourite (: 20:49:44 <RichK67> and how/why does this problem - does anyone have a link actually showing it.... suddenly appear after Africa has been out live for 5 months??? code change maybe ??? any others affected? 20:49:48 <KUDr> hmm - ConStopAllVehicles - i useit a lot 20:49:49 <chu> ahh. pngload is really used - wow unbelieaveable :-) 20:50:25 <Brianetta> console_cmds.c:96: warning: `ConStopAllVehicles' defined but not used until KUDr's changes get merged 20:50:26 <Tron> RichK67: what's the symptom? 20:50:33 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 20:50:42 <RichK67> I HAVE NO IDEA.... noone will tell me .... im not psychic!! 20:50:58 <hylje> whats the problem really 20:51:02 <hylje> or error 20:51:08 <RichK67> they just say "it is broken"... gee thanks 20:51:09 <Celestar> RichK67: neither have I 20:51:34 <Brianetta> Why do so many UKRS players choose to use passenger express locomotives to haul coal around? 20:51:45 <Celestar> RichK67: I just know the void tiles aren't there. 20:51:46 <black_Nightmare> brianetta...hm what you mean? 20:51:52 <Sacro> Brianetta: which train? 20:51:58 <hylje> because its efficient or simple? 20:52:02 <Tron> does anybody have the defective sav/scn? 20:52:16 <Brianetta> 4-4-0 express 20:52:35 <RichK67> celestar: so why does the issue show now?? if it was VOID tiles, it should have shown months ago 20:52:43 <RichK67> in fact instantly 20:52:55 <peter1138> not necessarily 20:53:01 <peter1138> not if no-one plays it ;p 20:53:12 <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: In UKRS, using an expensive-to-run but fast passenger loco to pull coal is a waste of money, because coal wagons can't travel very fast. One might as well use a cheap tank engine or a slow, powerful freight loco. 20:53:15 <Tron> <Tron> does anybody have the defective sav/scn? 20:53:22 *** Sacro [n=root@83.100.253.166] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 20:53:35 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:53:37 <Celestar> BAH conn sucks 20:53:45 <hylje> then ill say because those people dont have a clue 20:54:03 <RichK67> ive not been linked to anything... until i see evidence, im not doing nothing ;) 20:54:18 <hylje> RichK67: double negative 20:54:36 <RichK67> and a wink 20:54:40 *** ZsoL [n=ZsoL@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 20:54:57 <Tron> does the sav/scn you're talking about even exist? 20:55:24 <hylje> ghost scn :o 20:56:09 <peter1138> Brianetta: but don't worry, i'm close to having the extra text displayed 20:56:14 <Born_Acorn> (21:54:14) <Brianetta> Why do so many UKRS players choose to use passenger express locomotives to haul coal around? <---- They probably use cheats. 20:56:46 <Born_Acorn> So when they get Multiplayer, they still use em! 20:56:57 <hylje> :o 20:57:07 <Born_Acorn> (The express trains, not the cheats) 20:57:17 *** Husky_dragon [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:57:22 *** Husky_dragon [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:34 <Brianetta> Oooh, does the nightly now save passwords? 20:58:39 <Brianetta> Both my server's companies are passworded 20:58:39 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has joined #openttd 20:58:39 <Tron> Celestar, RichK67: hello? do you have the sav/scn you're talking about? 20:58:43 <Celestar> BAAHAHHHH 20:58:49 <Celestar> I lose my WLAN connection every 15 seconds 20:59:12 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@83.100.253.166] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:59:16 <hylje> thank god for irssi? 20:59:54 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:00:08 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:18 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:00:21 <Celestar> Tron: DCC 21:00:28 <Celestar> ACK 21:00:40 <Tron> ENODCC 21:00:55 <Celestar> try again 21:01:04 <hylje> use a higher level protocol plx 21:01:05 <Celestar> use the Africa scnarios 21:01:14 <RichK67> tron - other half just called me away 21:01:19 <Celestar> my conn dies every vew sec. 21:01:22 <Celestar> few* 21:01:38 <Celestar> note to self: on next trip, take better WLAN cables 21:01:42 <RichK67> i know nothing about this problem other than what i have been told here since i arrived after a weekend away 21:02:28 <hylje> wlan and cables are mutually exclusive 21:02:47 <Celestar> RichK67: I was investigating, but couldn't find it. 21:03:00 <Celestar> RichK67: I've read TGP. nice patch. 21:03:04 *** ZsoL [n=ZsoL@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:03:08 <Celestar> BUT: we NEVER compute a TileIndex manually 21:03:13 <Celestar> ALWAYS use TileXY(x, y); 21:03:15 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 21:03:27 <RichK67> VOID problems usually show in smallwindow, with player view 21:03:28 <Celestar> and we don't use SetTileType 21:03:38 <Celestar> but MakeVoid for example. 21:03:43 <RichK67> celestar .... you did when i wrote the patch ;) 21:03:56 <Celestar> Ritrue :) 21:04:00 <Celestar> RichK67: true 21:04:03 <Celestar> ok this is getting on my butt 21:04:05 <RichK67> lol 21:04:08 <Celestar> stupid WLAN 21:04:33 <Tron> <RichK67> VOID problems usually show in smallwindow, with player view <--- show in what? 21:05:47 * Celestar considers unplugging the WLAN AP he's setting at and use his RJ45 cable 21:05:47 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm working a bit on custombridgeheads. 21:05:47 <Celestar> doing nice progress. 21:05:47 <Celestar> I only have a flying train problem. 21:05:47 <RichK67> i couldnt remember name... the map view window thingy, with the players button pressed 21:05:47 <peter1138> i noticed 21:05:47 <hylje> omg flying trains 21:05:47 <Tron> the minimap? 21:05:57 <RichK67> yeah 21:06:01 <Celestar> hylje: check the link 21:06:09 <RichK67> except africa works in r4555 for me... 21:06:27 <Celestar> ok I'm heading to bed. 21:06:33 <RichK67> so VOID must be ok 21:06:36 <Celestar> RichK67: it WORKS. 21:06:41 <peter1138> RichK67: not all bugs become apart instantly 21:06:44 <peter1138> err 21:06:46 <RichK67> bogus bug report 21:06:48 <RichK67> ?/ 21:06:49 <RichK67> ?? 21:06:50 <peter1138> *apparent 21:06:56 <Celestar> most of the code is rather stable about MP_VOID. 21:07:04 <Celestar> RichK67: OPF for ships is not. 21:07:12 <Celestar> try it. 21:07:23 <Tron> ships wrap around? 21:07:29 <Celestar> Tron: no pathfind.c asserts 21:07:40 <Tron> even better 21:07:54 <Celestar> assert(TileX(tile) != MapMaxX() && TileY(tile) != MapMaxY()); 21:07:58 <RichK67> oh btw... i think i may have a solution for loading patched games that will future proof OTTD & patches 21:08:07 <Celestar> ok cu some other time 21:09:14 <Celestar> (possibly tomorrow evening) 21:09:14 <Celestar> I have a patch to update. 21:09:14 <RichK67> lol - just one ;) 21:09:14 <Celestar> well. 21:09:38 <Celestar> the custombridgehead patch 21:09:45 <Celestar> 4555 killed parts of it. 21:09:49 <RichK67> btw - there is a current bug in TGP - the industry placer can destroy towns! 21:10:06 <Celestar> RichK67: oh 21:10:15 <Tron> 4555 is a sync of the bridge branch 21:10:35 <peter1138> print GetTileType(MapMaxX()) 21:10:35 <peter1138> = MP_WATER 21:10:41 <RichK67> my test to see if it can terraform is clearly not quite good enough 21:10:45 <peter1138> tum te tum 21:11:01 *** UnderBuilder [i=UnderBui@168.226.106.151] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client"] 21:11:49 *** ZsoL_ [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has joined #openttd 21:11:49 *** ZsoL [i=zsol@login09.caesar.elte.hu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:11:55 <RichK67> let me just check this - is VOID a strip down *each* edge, or just the two? 21:12:30 <Tron> lower right and left edges 21:12:31 <peter1138> just the bottom two, i think 21:13:09 <Tron> it's necessary to be able to calculate slopes for the last row of "normal" tiles 21:13:12 <RichK67> thats what i thought... so does africa have 1 tile not set, or is it a whole strip? 21:13:24 <Tron> because every tile just stores the height of its north corner 21:13:59 <Tron> so if you want to calculate the slope of a tile you need 3 neighbouring tiles (left down, down, right down) 21:14:06 *** Mucht [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 21:14:14 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:14:24 <peter1138> the whole strip 21:14:26 <MeusH> Tron: thank you! 21:14:27 <RichK67> i know i had "fun" with TGP when it tried to place strips near the edge... so i built the coastlines feature to ensure a nice crinkly, (and > 2) border 21:14:30 *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz 21:14:31 <MeusH> Thank you so much 21:14:38 <Tron> ? 21:14:48 <MeusH> now I can really control my measurement patch 21:15:01 <Tron> ? 21:15:04 <MeusH> height measurement is really weird, now, especially on slopes 21:15:15 <RichK67> peter - i have no idea how to modify africa to have the strip 21:15:16 <MeusH> it is inaccurate 21:15:19 <peter1138> ahh, you removed some of the magic behind slopes :) 21:15:42 <Tron> RichK67: there's already code in openttd.c, which adds void tiles 21:15:53 <Tron> there was a bug, which also didn't add them 21:16:10 <Tron> just remove the version check and load the scenario and save it again 21:16:12 <MeusH> cya 21:16:13 *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"] 21:16:17 <RichK67> so, why not always call the routine when a file is loaded to guarantee painting of mp_void? 21:16:46 <peter1138> prevention / cure / etc 21:16:50 <Born_Acorn> peter1138! Our benevolent guru of newgrf. Give us newstations! 21:16:54 <Tron> that would be just one of a zillion possible inconsistencies 21:17:18 <RichK67> -> RichK67: oh btw... i think i may have a solution for loading patched games that will future proof OTTD & patches 21:17:43 <Tron> you're repeating yourself without giving any deatils 21:18:11 <RichK67> its involved, and i wasnt going to type it all out mid conversation :) 21:18:33 <RichK67> are you guys interested? i could even code it for you 21:18:33 *** dupier [i=id11@client-87-247-124-57.turbozone.lt] has quit ["go do something. anything. seriously."] 21:19:07 * Brianetta says guru just to get on guru3's tits 21:20:20 <Brianetta> RichK67: You keep coding at this rate, and you're going to have IN and the Rich's Patches Edition of OpenTTD to maintain 21:20:36 <RichK67> what it is: the "trunk" _patches are a pretty stable bunch. add a parallel feature for user patches.... eg. _user_patches. this is saved in the savegame, with a *known* template identifier... so you can tell a) what patches were installed, b) what the settings were, c) any additional data that is needed to be saved (eg. newgrf files) can be identified 21:21:29 <Brianetta> ...with a legacy loader for old games and Patch saves? 21:21:33 <RichK67> then when you load, an interpreter can compare your installed patches against the patches listed in the game, and translate the game as required 21:22:14 <RichK67> yes, effectively... but as it is tag-identified, the patch writer can add their case to the SELECT (tag_id).. in the interpreter 21:22:30 <Brianetta> This new loader will have to be able to scan both trunk and user patches for trunk patches 21:22:41 <stillunknown> you're thinking of making c modular mods? 21:23:28 <RichK67> no - the classic trunk patch vars etc stay as they are - controlled by the dev team 21:24:14 <RichK67> all trunk needs to do is say "oh... its the _user_patches tag.... ignore it (unless the loader has been patched to translate it)" 21:24:38 <RichK67> use the TLV notation as well; tag, length, value (data) 21:24:50 <RichK67> *extremely* flexible 21:25:23 <RichK67> it is actually how credit cards use customised data during transactions with the ICC gold chip 21:25:33 <RichK67> (my worK) 21:26:15 <stillunknown> this would assume that any patch in existence would never break trunk compatibility 21:26:25 <Brianetta> The reason I said that it's have to be able to load trunk patches from user, is for old saved games, saved with a patch which was later merged 21:26:48 <RichK67> effect on trunk is minimal: add a new structure like current _patches, but called _user_patches. add the load/save tag in saveload.c 21:28:00 <RichK67> not a problem; each patch would have a unique id - (not a number, i was thinking 10chars of text). this is used to say "these are the settings for...." 21:28:23 <stillunknown> this still leaves the fact that patches can alter things on which normal features rely 21:28:47 <RichK67> so if a patch is upgraded to trunk, the translation code gets trunked for that patch id, perhaps with a "deprecated" status tag 21:29:54 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729A7.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:30:27 <Brianetta> stillunknown: It does, but it at least means that cross-patch saved gamesd are possible, rather than impossible. 21:30:49 <RichK67> still: not a problem; it doesnt change any of that.... the killer right now, is that if the patch adds a setting that needs to be saved, that savegame cannot be loaded into any other one than one that *perfectly* matches. this would give you a way to translate between them (if possible), or deny the load if not possible (and tell you what patches & newgrfs it was saved with) 21:31:32 <stillunknown> a newer release would be able to deal with it 21:31:48 <Tron> RichK67: check the PNG specification 21:31:54 <RichK67> any release after its inclusion will be able to load old ones 21:31:55 <stillunknown> as it knows the savegame revision and what to do with the information 21:32:19 <RichK67> Tron: huh? for what? sorry i missed the connection there 21:32:19 <Patrick`> that's a bothersome limitation 21:32:26 <Tron> just do it 21:32:32 <Patrick`> there's only a distinction between patched and unpatched for "can a join B network game" 21:32:46 <Tron> PNG has stuff like optinal frames and some status information along with it 21:33:18 <Brianetta> Perhaps we should change the saved game format to some sort of IFF 21:33:32 <RichK67> yeah, i actually deal with this format every day - not PNG, but its known as BER-TLV... can use optional templates, interpret bits, etc 21:34:13 <RichK67> Tron: you would like me to knock this together and test? 21:34:35 <Brianetta> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interchange_File_Format 21:34:39 *** XeryusTC [n=irc@217.123.34.28] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:34:44 <Tron> i don't think it works 21:35:00 <stillunknown> what you actually want (i think) is a mod interface, because you need a constant factor 21:35:00 <Patrick`> just use XML 21:35:02 <peter1138> Brianetta: "4-4-0 'Express' (Steam)", "Suitable for: Passengers" 21:35:20 <Tron> a modification can alter the behavior and game state in a way which is inconsistent from the point of view of a unmodified version 21:35:43 <stillunknown> but a mod interface has limits, which are known 21:36:01 <stillunknown> a sourcecode patch can change many essential things 21:36:06 <peter1138> yeah, my bridges over diag tracks didn't change much (heh) 21:36:17 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 21:37:05 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4556 /branch/yapf/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [YAPF] Add: FindNearestDepot support for roadvehs 21:37:15 <Brianetta> stillunknown: It can change as much as it likes, as long as, when it saves a game, it writes into that game that the file is from a radically modified verison of the game and shouldn't be loaded without patch X. 21:37:46 <Brianetta> Then the player can see a message on screen, telling them this. 21:37:57 <Brianetta> Instead of watching the game cough and die 21:38:17 <RichK67> tron: yes... so the load may fail on those... but if it currently creates settings, it is 100% a guaranteed fail now, but may actually work (eg. if you apply Speed Signs, then the actual game-data is 100% compatible because i use unused map bits, but because i use 2 settings, the savegame wont load) 21:39:01 <RichK67> yeah - it can say "this game requires patches X, Y, and Z, which you do not have; load anyway?" 21:40:16 <Brianetta> As a bystander, not a dev, I support RichK's proposed saved game modification. 21:40:18 <RichK67> it doesnt need to understand the *data* beyond the standardised format patch-id-name in the known tag structure; so plain trunk will always be able to identify what patches were used, even if it doesnt support them 21:41:21 <RichK67> Brianetta; in a way it doesnt actually change the savegame much at all; only adds 1 tagged structure. support for the contents of that structure are then independent of the trunk savegame 21:43:30 <RichK67> coding this i reckon is a couple of evenings work (for me)... 1 to mod the basic trunk, 1 to convert a patch to save the right stuff and test the two together 21:43:34 <Born_Acorn> peter1138, weren't you working on a new version of diag track under bridges? 21:43:51 <peter1138> no, tron is, and there's a branch 21:44:11 <Born_Acorn> :O 21:44:50 <peter1138> hmm 21:44:52 <Born_Acorn> How inspiringly suprising. 21:44:53 <peter1138> Capacity: (refittable) 21:45:07 <RichK67> can i have a go-no go for this from the devs, pls... i dont want to waste time on this if there is no chance on it hitting trunk, etc... 21:45:18 <Born_Acorn> I feel like donating my net worth x 50 to peter1138 right now! 21:45:26 <RichK67> ie. if it works, does it go in? 21:45:42 <Born_Acorn> What is the feature? (in short) 21:46:00 <RichK67> lol - about the last 3 screenfuls ;) 21:46:14 <Born_Acorn> Precisely why I wanted it in short :p 21:46:37 <stillunknown> almost like a old savegame loader, which identifies if features are absolutely neccesary for a savegame to load 21:46:51 <Born_Acorn> How handy. 21:47:08 <RichK67> okies - a minor addition of a user-patch save feature, that will allow a non-patched version to query the game and determine/maybe translate whether it will work in that version 21:47:50 <stillunknown> but from the games perspective it's getting a savegame of a newer version 21:47:55 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:48:00 <stillunknown> since that has more features 21:48:03 <hylje> for that to work in a really user-friendly way, shouldnt there be an automagical patch repository 21:48:59 <RichK67> hylje: no - trunk only side will be "dumb" - it will just be capable of reading the name identifier, but not understand any of the data (doesnt need to) 21:51:07 *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["leaving"] 21:51:20 *** thgergo [n=th_gergo@dsl51B78886.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:51:31 <Darkvater> OMG 21:51:38 <Darkvater> got home 30 minutes ago 21:51:45 <Darkvater> 11 hours on the tennis court :S 21:51:55 <KUDr> wow 21:52:21 <Born_Acorn> youch 21:52:56 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4557 /trunk/newgrf_text.c: 21:52:56 <CIA-3> - NewGRF: translate from TTDPatch control codes to our own, instead of just simple validation. We still perform 21:52:56 <CIA-3> validation on any unhandled character. 21:53:13 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 21:53:14 <Born_Acorn> Sleeping on a tennis court for 11 hours will hurt. 21:54:05 <RichK67> ok... ill bbl 21:54:22 *** RichK67 is now known as RichK|away 21:58:59 <peter1138> Born_Acorn: draw 22:01:59 <Darkvater> about the void tiles people, I fixed both scenarios 22:07:02 <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4558 /trunk/console_cmds.c: - Fix: 'stopall' was moved to debug, so move the function there as well. 22:09:17 <Born_Acorn> peter1138, bang bang, your're dead. 22:09:32 * Born_Acorn was quick on the draw this time 22:09:33 *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176117202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:09:42 <Darkvater> 9 minutes 22:09:56 <peter1138> damn 22:10:56 <Brianetta> peter1138 was rummaging in his briefcase for a pistol 22:11:25 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-1660.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 22:13:02 *** Hallo [n=me@141.24.48.94] has quit [] 22:16:24 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 22:16:31 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [] 22:16:33 *** TPK|Sleep is now known as TPK|AlmostSchool 22:19:09 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54946D74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [""cal 9 1752""] 22:19:56 *** CobraA1 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:21:18 *** TPK|AlmostSchool is now known as TPK|School 22:22:27 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 22:23:38 <Darkvater> michi_cc: ping 22:24:40 *** RichK|away is now known as RichK67 22:24:49 <Darkvater> ey RichK67 22:24:53 <Darkvater> RichK67: MP_VOID 22:24:55 <RichK67> hiya DV 22:25:11 <Darkvater> RichK67: I fixed your scenarios (canyonero and africa), it's up on SF and all again 22:25:12 <RichK67> i dont know what happened there.. i blame PNGload :) 22:25:28 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tschüß"] 22:25:35 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4559 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_engine.c newgrf_engine.h): - NewGRF: keep a record of which grf an engine is defined in. Will be used in the future. 22:25:37 <RichK67> also, it was a long time ago :) 22:26:01 <Darkvater> :) 22:27:18 <RichK67> peter1138: ping have you done the code to save/identify what newgrfs are loaded? this could be a good test of this _user_patch save thing, as its basically a very very similar data structure needed (ie. patch_name = newgrf_name) 22:27:47 <peter1138> not that similar 22:28:09 <peter1138> it stores a the filename, an id, a list of parameters and a checksum 22:28:28 <CIA-3> Darkvater * r4560 /trunk/win32.c: 22:28:28 <CIA-3> - Fix: (r3008) Remove VS2005 undefined vsnprintf() as it doesn't exist in the 22:28:28 <CIA-3> windows libraries (only _vsnprintf). This caused the bad function to be called 22:28:28 <CIA-3> that could result in non-properly terminated strings. Thanks for noticing Tron. 22:29:01 <RichK67> totally - mine stores a template - so after the filename, the id, params & checksum are just the data items in the template 22:29:07 <Darkvater> RichK67: why don't you just use a new SaveLoad chunk for th euser patches? 22:29:35 <RichK67> that is effectively what it is, but one that doesnt need trunk to know precise lengths etc. 22:30:02 <Darkvater> so how do you know when you are done with the section? 22:30:17 <RichK67> so trunk can try to load something with extras it doesnt understand, sees it doesnt know them, and advises the user 22:30:59 <Darkvater> that sounds very much like the existing 'unknown tag found, aborting' part already in 22:31:05 <Darkvater> just ignoring now instead of aborting 22:31:08 <RichK67> two parts; 1st says "upcoming patch section; length of section will be; name of section is;" 22:31:53 <RichK67> the 2nd part is data for section but now with known length... so you can read it, and if you know you dont know it, discard it 22:31:59 <Darkvater> 1st part already exists. It's called chunk-id like PATS and length is automatically calculated 22:32:19 <RichK67> ok - this is useful info - thanks DV 22:32:49 <Darkvater> the question is what you mean by 'know you dont know it' 22:33:03 <RichK67> i was proposing an idea, and asking devs, but if most of mechanism already exists, fantastic ... i only then need to split _user_patches from _patches 22:33:12 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4561 /trunk/ (newgrf_callbacks.h vehicle_gui.c vehicle_gui.h): - NewGRF: implement most of callback 0x23: additional text in vehicle purchase windows. 22:33:23 <Darkvater> all you would need I guess is functionality to just ignore an unknown chunk (eg skip it) instead of aborting 22:33:43 <Darkvater> peter1138: working down your 100KB patch ;) 22:33:54 <RichK67> ah... well idea is that patch writers would add a recognition section in their part of saveload, and so if the patch is loaded, it gets interpreted 22:35:11 <RichK67> sorry loaded = installed 22:35:11 <Darkvater> hmm, ok that doesn't exist 22:35:11 <Darkvater> although you can do it with a chunk for each user-patch and ignore functionality 22:35:11 <RichK67> if it is not installed, there will be no identifier - so basic trunk will be able to say "i am missing SpeedSigns" 22:35:39 <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4562 /trunk/train_gui.c: - NewGRF: Add additional vehicle text to train engine and wagon purchase information. Other vehicle types to come. 22:36:23 <peter1138> Darkvater: still loads left :) 22:36:27 <RichK67> main thing is to create a parellel of _patches structure (plus the patch_id) called _user_patches... then all user added stuff is kept clear of the core trunk _patches which is handled via normal saveload areas 22:36:27 <Darkvater> ;) 22:36:30 <Darkvater> freetype! 22:36:35 <peter1138> yeah, and utf8 22:37:11 <Darkvater> although I don't fully agree with you 22:37:20 <Darkvater> you said speedsigns is safe because it uses unused bits 22:37:22 <Darkvater> what if 22:37:23 <peter1138> with me? 22:37:25 <peter1138> oh 22:37:27 <Darkvater> 1. we start using those bits 22:37:28 <Darkvater> no RichK67 22:37:29 <Darkvater> or 22:37:38 <peter1138> good, cos i'm sleeping now 22:37:50 <Darkvater> 2. we don't properly & those bits and read it anyways, assuming it is 0? 22:37:55 <Darkvater> peter1138: good point 22:37:57 * Darkvater concedes 22:38:44 <RichK67> yes, it screws up... but no different to any current patched savegame... however post-patching if core trunk starts using those bits, the patch writer could write a versioned-interpreter section in the saveload user_patches area to move the bits elsewhere 22:39:33 <Darkvater> and all this to load miniIN savegames (for example) in trunk? 22:39:44 <RichK67> nope - nothing to do with it... 22:39:45 <peter1138> seems a lot of effort 22:39:47 <peter1138> but, nini 22:39:58 * Darkvater puts peter1138 to bed 22:40:04 <RichK67> to make it more flexible and future proof all round 22:40:19 <Patrick`> hmm 22:40:35 <Darkvater> it is future proof :) 22:40:36 <RichK67> same logic of identifying what newgrfs were used when a game was saved... 22:40:42 <Patrick`> unless the mini-in had a lot of map alterations, I don't see why the saves aren't compatible 22:40:45 <Darkvater> openttd-0.1.0 and even before are loaded perfectly 22:40:46 <Darkvater> ;) 22:42:22 <RichK67> patrick' : miniIN changes a lot, but yes, the core saved data is probably ok... its only the patch additions to settings.c that break loading in normal trunk... im not saying it will work ok in trunk, but it may load... may.... 22:42:23 * Darkvater offskis 22:42:25 <Darkvater> gn all :) 22:42:27 <RichK67> cya DV 22:42:41 <Darkvater> RichK67: *hint* use Da<tab> ;) 22:42:58 <Darkvater> gn :) 22:43:16 <RichK67> Da<tab> ?? (sorry not looked at saveload yet... im hypothetical atm) 22:49:27 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.1/2006040400]"] 22:50:31 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-140-142-144.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org"] 22:56:36 *** black_Nightmare [n=Husky_dr@modemcable254.254-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd ["bye"] 23:26:02 *** Andrew67 [n=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has quit [Client Quit] 23:30:16 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit ["<volcone> tycker inte man borde få idrotta i skolan, eftersom man springer så jävulskt mkt i wow"]