Log for #openttd on 8th May 2006:
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02:34:36  <PandaMojo> Normal railways are not available starting at 1935 in Alpine, R4777.  I assume it's the wiki in error when it says they're available "from the beginning of the game", with the unmentioned assumption that you're starting from 1950 or so?
02:35:46  <Tobin> Yes.
02:35:54  <Tobin> That would make sense.
02:36:20  <PandaMojo> Back to 1950 for the time being then :-)
02:39:14  <Tobin> You could always use a newgrf with trains that are introduced earlier.
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06:22:04  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4780 /trunk/station_cmd.c: - Newstations: when building using a dynamic layout, add the station axis to the returned tile type. Also supply correct parameters to var 10.
06:22:52  <Tobin> Oh, that reminds me...
06:23:07  * Tobin wanders over to the forums to see the reactions to newstations
06:24:14  <Tobin> Is it just me or is jcindstaw.grf not listed on grfcrawler?
06:28:33  *** Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@c211-28-183-112.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd
06:28:47  <XeryusTC> Tobin: it is
06:30:25  <Tobin> What's it listed as?
06:31:11  <XeryusTC> i think "New stations" or "Generic stations"
06:31:26  <Tobin> They're both different.
06:31:45  <peter1138> i don't see it there
06:31:46  <XeryusTC> ow, they're under the us set
06:31:57  <peter1138> yeah
06:32:03  <peter1138> hidden away
06:32:15  <XeryusTC> yes
06:32:40  <Tobin> Hmmm, narrow gauge rails.
06:32:53  <Celestar> back
06:33:12  <Celestar> Tobin: what?
06:33:48  <Tobin> Celestar: I was just looking at a grf that replaces one of the rail types with narrow gauge track for narrow gauge sets.
06:34:13  <Tobin> I imagine if it was implemented in OpenTTD it'd be a real track type though, not a replacement.
06:34:36  <Fujitsu> It'd be nice to have easily expandable rail-types...
06:34:38  <Fujitsu> newrail :P
06:34:44  <Fujitsu> The current stuff is messy.
06:34:51  <Celestar> Fujitsu: rail-types ARE easily expandable
06:34:54  <peter1138> that is what oskar is planning
06:35:03  <Tobin> It's better since Celestar did elrails.
06:35:07  <Fujitsu> Celestar, how long have they been?
06:35:12  <Fujitsu> Been good, that is?
06:35:12  <peter1138> heh
06:35:20  <Fujitsu> When I checked about a year ago, it wasn't good.
06:35:22  <peter1138> the bulk of the elrail work was getting the catenary right
06:35:27  <Celestar> apart from catenary drawing, adding elrails took about 2 hours.
06:35:38  <Celestar> but first, we need high-speed rails.
06:35:46  <Fujitsu> Catenary stuff would have been a nightmare.
06:35:47  <Tobin> I seem to remember some changes to the way track types were handled though.
06:35:47  <Fujitsu> Celestar: ?
06:35:49  <peter1138> see, you should've done 3rd rail, much easlier ;)
06:35:57  <Fujitsu> peter1138, I was thinking the same thing :P
06:36:03  <Tobin> I'd like trams myself.
06:36:16  <peter1138> that's different :(
06:36:26  <Celestar> railtypes can easily be added if the basic tracklayout does not change
06:36:32  <peter1138> people want trams to run on roads, otherwise it's not really a tram...
06:36:55  <peter1138> so ttdp's trams are really busses with another road type
06:36:56  <Fujitsu> peter1138, ja.
06:37:18  <Fujitsu> peter1138, certainly looks that way.
06:37:29  <Fujitsu> Ideally, we introduce them as a whole new vehicle type...
06:37:32  <Tobin> I want to be able to have the road end and the trams continue on narrow gauge track.
06:37:43  <peter1138> Fujitsu: then how do you mix them on roads?
06:37:59  <Fujitsu> peter1138, have them also work on roads...
06:38:03  <Fujitsu> They aren't really buses...
06:40:08  <Tobin> peter1138: what's the track grf used in http://195.112.37.102/ottd/2cc5.png ?
06:40:20  <peter1138> it's from the czech stuff
06:40:30  <peter1138> the road, too
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07:05:06  <Celestar> vi tGNAAH
07:05:15  * Celestar goes making an own bridge branch
07:05:43  <Fujitsu> Why?
07:05:45  <peter1138> heh
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08:13:38  <Tobin> Heh, the game crashes when I join Brianetta's server.
08:15:52  <Tobin> The MacOS nightlies are PPC only?
08:17:47  <Tobin> Hmm, yup, one i386 thread and two PPC threads.
08:18:12  <Tobin> It's dying in the i386 one... Maybe a rosetta bug.
08:18:35  <Celestar> you got an Intel-back?
08:18:38  <Celestar> Mac*
08:18:45  <Tobin> Yes.
08:18:50  <Celestar> hm ..
08:18:54  <Celestar> we should have native code?
08:19:05  <Tobin> We did for the last release.
08:19:12  <Celestar> but no nightly?
08:19:15  *** Qball is now known as mlpj
08:19:18  <Tobin> It's be nice for the nightlies too.
08:19:33  <Tobin> Not for the current one at least.
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08:20:01  * Celestar thinks Tobin and Bjarni should join forces to create such a nightly.
08:20:03  <Celestar> hey Hackykid (=
08:20:15  <Hackykid> heya Celestar
08:20:25  <Celestar> hows stuff?
08:21:34  <Hackykid> good :-)
08:21:55  <Celestar> you feel like testing stuff?
08:23:03  <Tobin> Ah, I see the problem.
08:25:42  *** mlpj is now known as Qball
08:26:17  <Tobin> Celestar: Unless the nightly build machine is a Mac universal binaries are pretty much out, as far as I can see. The Makefile does each architecture separately then uses lipo to make the fat binary.
08:26:44  <Darkvater> morning
08:26:50  <Fujitsu> Morning, Darkvater.
08:26:54  <Celestar> hey Darkvater hows life?
08:29:43  <Darkvater> sucks
08:29:53  <Darkvater> I have to finish a Java project for tomorrow :s
08:30:13  <Darkvater> lemme tell you 1. Tapestry sucks and 2. Java sucks so much it's incredible on a 1.3GHz machine
08:30:18  <Darkvater> so damn slow
08:30:41  <Celestar> welcome to the club
08:30:50  <Celestar> I'm back from a one-week-vacation
08:30:57  <Celestar> I have 260 unread e-mails
08:31:02  <Darkvater> :)
08:31:07  <Darkvater> select all > delete
08:31:19  <Celestar> ^^
08:31:24  <Celestar> Hackykid: I need testers (=
08:31:42  <Hackykid> hmm, sure :-)
08:32:18  <Celestar> check out branch/bridge and apply http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridge2.diff . play around a little (hopefully old games load)
08:33:06  <Darkvater> Celestar: all that's left for 0.4.8 is the economy stuff, which also needs fixing in trunk/
08:33:32  <Tobin> Celestar: Worth it for other random people to test that too?
08:34:52  <Celestar> Tobin: yes.
08:35:02  <Celestar> Tobin: but savegames will be lost in the future ...
08:35:37  <Tobin> Celestar: Doesn't worry me, for testing I usually just cheat to get cash then do as much weird stuff as I can think of.
08:36:24  <Hackykid> Celestar: hmm, your patch is refusing to apply properly
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08:37:13  <Celestar> it IS  ... why :S
08:37:18  <Hackykid> if i do -p0 it cant find tunnel_cmd.c, and if i do -p1 it cant fine npf.c
08:37:18  <Celestar> problems with bridge_cmd.c ?
08:37:47  <Tobin> can't find file to patch at input line 138 ... tunnel_cmd.c: No such file or directory
08:37:52  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> svn st bridge_cmd.c
08:37:53  <Celestar> A  +   bridge_cmd.c
08:38:10  <Celestar> GNA
08:38:19  <Fujitsu> Hahah
08:38:29  <Hackykid> right..
08:38:30  <Celestar> which file exactly did you download?
08:38:33  <Hackykid> what about tunnel_cmd.c ?
08:38:46  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> svn st tunnel_cmd.c
08:38:46  <Celestar> A  +   tunnel_cmd.c
08:39:02  <Fujitsu> Hahah
08:39:18  <Hackykid> hmm, so the diff is supposed to create those then...
08:39:27  * Celestar reuploads
08:39:46  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridge2.diff <= retry
08:39:48  <Hackykid> i had this same problem with the previous diff you sent me :-)
08:40:13  * Celestar considers zipping up the source code :S
08:41:29  <Hackykid> somehow it thinks there already should be a tunnel_cmd.c
08:42:04  <Fujitsu> Yeah, it's stuffed.
08:42:27  <Hackykid> --- tunnel_cmd.c	(revision 4780)
08:42:27  <Hackykid> +++ tunnel_cmd.c	(working copy)
08:42:45  <Hackykid> according to the diff there is a tunnel_cmd.c in bridge rev 4780
08:43:22  <Hackykid> but i cant see it :-)
08:43:29  <Fujitsu> There isn't one.
08:43:34  <Fujitsu> Celestar, your issue...
08:43:39  <Celestar> the diff OUGHT to create it :S
08:43:42  <Fujitsu> Unless there is another bridge branch.
08:44:01  <Hackykid> it should say --- tunnel_cmd.c	(revision 0) or so i think
08:44:14  <Celestar> yeah. it should
08:44:21  <Fujitsu> But it doesn't.
08:44:41  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridgesource.tar.gz <= do it the hard way then.
08:44:47  <Celestar> (only .c and .h files)
08:44:48  <Fujitsu> Gah.
08:45:21  <Fujitsu> This bridge stuff will really improve things :D
08:45:54  <Tobin> No need to patch those sources, right?
08:46:13  <Fujitsu> Tobin, doesn't look like it.
08:46:16  <Celestar> no Tobin :)
08:46:26  * Fujitsu creates a /proper/ diff from these sources :P
08:46:38  <Tobin> Just asking, people can do funny things Celestar. :P
08:46:40  <Celestar> Fujitsu: give it a try (=
08:46:52  <Fujitsu> I'll see if/how it works.
08:47:28  * Fujitsu waits for everything to rebuild.
08:48:00  * Fujitsu continues to wait.
08:48:00  <Celestar> I'm rather interested in bugs bugs bugs
08:48:01  <Tobin> I once did a project where someone submitted all his diagrams as JPEGs. We asked him for PDF or PS versions instead so he just turned the JPEGs into PDFs. Smart people can be so dumb.
08:48:07  <Celestar> ^^
08:48:18  <Fujitsu> I am going to debugbugbug.
08:48:22  <Tobin> Celestar: "/usr/bin/ld: Undefined symbols: __tile_type_bridge_procs"
08:48:47  <Tobin> Celestar: and "_DoConvertBridgeRail _DoConvertTunnelRail"
08:49:02  <Fujitsu> A couple of implicit definitions... And still going...
08:49:16  <Fujitsu> Compiled and lunk!
08:49:20  <Hackykid> yay!
08:50:07  <Celestar> Fujitsu: yeah. it's not clean yet.
08:50:14  <Celestar> Tobin: hm? where?
08:50:18  <Fujitsu> Good, I hoped you knew about that.
08:50:25  <Darkvater> I do'nt suppose anyone is familiar with Tomcat icm with Tapestry?
08:51:18  <Fujitsu> My diff works fine.
08:51:22  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, I can't stand Java.
08:51:38  <Tobin> Celestar: http://paste.lisp.org/display/19789 <-- complete build output.
08:52:10  <Celestar> Tobin: will look
08:52:13  <Fujitsu> Yay.
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08:52:21  <Fujitsu> I can even terraform under bridges.
08:52:21  <Darkvater> Fujitsu: me neither, but you know what's funny? I had a talk with a few of my classmates, a few of them who have also already graduated, and they ALL use Java/Eclipse for development
08:52:28  <Tobin> Celestar: You'll want to ignore the guff at the start, obviously.
08:52:33  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, WHY!?
08:52:37  <Fujitsu> What's there to like about it?
08:52:45  <Fujitsu> C(++) for the world!
08:52:49  <Celestar> ahh
08:52:50  <Celestar> I know
08:52:54  <Darkvater> I was told because it is proven technology, secure, less buggy and speed doesn't matter as much
08:52:56  <Celestar> I forgot to include the Makefile :S
08:53:11  <Tobin> Oh, hehe.
08:53:17  <Darkvater> gj Celestar
08:53:22  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridgesource.tar.gz <= retry :)
08:54:08  <Hackykid> well, it compiled here
08:54:24  <Hackykid> what do i do now? :-p
08:54:46  <Hackykid> are graphic glitches considered bugs?
08:54:47  <Fujitsu> OMG good bridges.
08:55:17  * Fujitsu thinks of the great junctions that are now possible.
08:55:46  <Fujitsu> Now, DIAGONAL BRIDGE. Muahahahha
08:55:48  <Fujitsu> *BRIDGES
08:56:20  <Hackykid> weird stuff
08:56:36  <Hackykid> the bridgehead appears on top of the bridge i build on top of it
08:58:26  <Hackykid> Celestar: i think i got a bug :-)
08:58:39  <Hackykid> my train just switched bridges
08:58:47  <Tobin> Signals look very odd under bridges.
08:59:15  <Hackykid> (well, it might be cause by the bridges being practically inside eachother :-p)
09:02:28  <Hackykid> Celestar: i think you need to make it so that the bridge is at least 1 level above *both* ends of the bridgehead
09:02:56  <peter1138> switched bridges? hehe
09:03:16  <Tobin> Hackykid: What bridge arrangement did you use for that to happen?
09:03:33  <Hackykid> a length 2 bridge (so only bridgeheads)
09:03:42  <Hackykid> then build a bridge over it in the same direction
09:03:56  <Celestar> back
09:03:59  <Hackykid> then send a train over the top brige
09:04:13  <peter1138> ah
09:04:25  <Celestar> Hackykid: they did? how?
09:04:36  <Tobin> That shouldn't be possible to build anyway, should it?
09:04:41  <Hackykid> Celestar: ready my last 3 sentences :-)
09:04:47  <Hackykid> Tobin: yeah, i think now
09:04:49  <Hackykid> Tobin: yeah, i think not
09:05:02  <Celestar> Hackykid: screeny?
09:05:28  <Hackykid> but also, a bridge over a non-flat bridgehead appears well... inside? the bridgehead
09:06:58  <Celestar> hmpf
09:07:10  * Celestar checks
09:07:20  <Hackykid> hmm, cant make png screenshots :-(
09:07:45  <Celestar> Hackykid: problem noted.
09:08:11  <Hackykid> [11:02] <Hackykid> Celestar: i think you need to make it so that the bridge is at least 1 level above *both* ends of the bridgehead
09:08:12  <Hackykid> :-)
09:08:22  <Fujitsu> Hmm...
09:08:32  <Celestar> Hackykid: that's what I'm just doing.
09:08:37  <Fujitsu> It's saying I can't build a bridge over another (perpindicular) one.
09:08:49  <Fujitsu> Dinner now, BBS.
09:09:02  <Hackykid> Celestar: pl
09:09:04  <Hackykid> Celestar: ok
09:09:09  <Hackykid> hehe
09:10:26  <Hackykid> hehe, lol, i really have build 2 bridges through eachother now
09:10:37  <Celestar> Hackykid: bridge_cmd.c:350 ... remove "Real" from the function call (also line below)
09:10:38  <Hackykid> probably symptom of the same problem though
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09:12:17  <Celestar> Fujitsu: bridge constructions are VERY high. so there needs to be a certain clearance.
09:12:18  <Hackykid> hmm
09:12:23  <Celestar> 1-5 height levels.
09:12:36  <Tobin> Depots under bridges are not drawn correctly.
09:12:47  <peter1138> those pesky land levels are too shallow :(
09:12:48  <Tobin> ... but they seem to work.
09:12:53  <Hackykid> i dont seem to have an editor which shows linenumbers here :-)
09:14:13  <Celestar> Hackykid: lol
09:14:21  <Celestar> hm ..  think depots under bridge should not be allowed ...
09:14:32  <Tobin> Why not?
09:14:54  <Tobin> Seems a sensible place to me and it lets you make use of tight spaces.
09:15:10  <Celestar> true
09:15:18  <Celestar> but a certain clearances needs to be maintained.
09:15:27  * Celestar is installing SuSE 10.1
09:15:48  <Tobin> And they seem to work correctly, from the game's point of view, but they are drawn on top of the bridge.
09:15:53  <Celestar> yeah
09:16:00  <Celestar> because they are higher than one bridge level
09:18:40  <Tobin> Ah.
09:18:44  <Tobin> Makes sense.
09:20:37  <Celestar> I'll need to modify bridge characteristics
09:23:18  <Tobin> Waypoints under bridges look odd too.
09:23:59  <Celestar> yah
09:24:00  <Tobin> Putting a buoy under a bridge actually crashes the game :)
09:24:04  * Celestar takes notes.
09:24:18  <Celestar> Tobin: what about placing a station below a bridge?
09:24:24  <Tobin> Well it doesn't crash so much as it aborts: "failed assertion `MayHaveBridgeAbove(t)'"
09:24:32  <Tobin> Celestar: It doesn't let you.
09:24:43  <Celestar> ah
09:24:48  <Tobin> Won't let you put an airport under one either.
09:24:53  <Celestar> good 2 know
09:25:54  <Tobin> Docks under bridges abort after an assertion too.
09:27:07  <Tobin> Shipyards can be built but look odd also.
09:27:07  <Celestar> me->lunch
09:27:53  <Tobin> Is that code for "stop bugging me"? :)
09:28:53  <Tobin> You hit an assert if buying land under a bridge too.
09:29:12  * Fujitsu is back.
09:32:57  <Tobin> Hehe, if we could have stations on bridges then we could build track above town roads and stick stations on them.
09:33:20  <KUDr> would be nice
09:34:28  <Darkvater> elevated rail :)
09:34:37  <Prof_Frink> We need stations on bridges and bridges over stations
09:34:45  <Prof_Frink> Double-decker stations :D
09:36:14  <Tobin> This is all fairly nifty.
09:36:37  <Tobin> Custom bridgeheads would be a complementary feature for this stuff.
09:38:28  <Fujitsu> Tobin, it would.
09:38:43  <peter1138> well that is planned too :)
09:39:08  <peter1138> basically instead of implementing my custom bridge heads, which do work, we're going to rejig it all a bit...
09:39:26  <Fujitsu> Good idea.
09:40:18  <Tobin> Hooray for rejigging!
09:41:53  <Darkvater> eg. this would be awesome :D http://www.kohsuke.org/freetrain/screenshots/1.png
09:42:11  <Tobin> Hell yeah.
09:42:22  <Tobin> That's a multi later tile problem though, isn't it?
09:42:25  <vondel> decent flyovers
09:42:32  <Tobin> i.e. newmap.
09:43:18  <vondel> i hope someone has already been thinking about how to edit multilayer tiles
09:43:44  <Darkvater> http://hb4.seikyou.ne.jp/home/Go-Ro/FreeTrain/images/stationary/electricPole_001.gif < w00t
09:43:48  <vondel> for example: does the player want to place signals on the bridge, or on the track under it...
09:45:51  <Tobin> This arbitrary stuff under bridges stuff is something the patch doesn't have right?
09:49:04  <Tobin> Anyone? I don't want to ask the patch people directly, it'd seem like gloating.
09:49:10  <Darkvater> they don't
09:50:57  <peter1138> no
09:50:59  <peter1138> they have trams though
09:51:05  <peter1138> and newcargos
09:51:08  <peter1138> and newindustries
09:51:09  <peter1138> and newhouses
09:51:09  <peter1138> hmm
09:51:14  <Darkvater> and smallmaps
09:51:17  <Darkvater> en nomultiplayer
09:51:24  <peter1138> but belugas is working on the last 3
09:51:43  <Tobin> They have small maps? I thought they were stuck at 8x8?
09:51:50  <Darkvater> aren't those small? :)
09:52:00  <Darkvater> hmm you're right
09:52:01  <Darkvater> they have
09:52:04  <Darkvater> fixedmaps=1
09:52:06  <Darkvater> ;p
09:52:13  <Darkvater> newfixedmaps
09:52:24  <Tobin> Heh, 6x6 are small.
09:52:29  <Tobin> Or tiny, maybe.
09:53:58  <peter1138> i quite like 7x7 maps
09:54:03  <peter1138> or 6x8
09:54:13  <peter1138> or 7x8
09:54:19  <peter1138> or somethign ;p
09:55:49  <Tobin> 7x10 can be fun. You end up with mad mainline configurations.
09:56:13  <peter1138> heh
09:56:16  <peter1138> yeah
09:56:34  <Fujitsu> Mainline in 7x10!? Hard to fit a station or industry in one...
09:57:30  <Tobin> Speaking of small maps this arbitrary stuff under-bridges work will make them much more playable. Multiplayer too.
09:57:43  <peter1138> yep
09:57:48  <Tobin> Fujitsu: 6x6 is cute, you get exactly one of each industry type.
09:57:54  <Celestar> back
09:57:58  <peter1138> all those idiots who place signals on every tile will not be able to block you :)
09:58:00  <Celestar> ok more feedback?
09:58:17  <Fujitsu> Celestar, it's really terrific :)))
09:58:23  <Celestar> cool (=
09:58:41  <Celestar> peter1138: exactly.
09:59:05  <Celestar> I've yesterday discovered that one of the main trunk rails out of Munich is just being extended from 4 to 6 tracks
09:59:11  <Tobin> I was thinking of the "no i must use diagonal track to cross the map" people.
09:59:25  <peter1138> Tobin: well, i do that because it's shorter...
09:59:29  <Celestar> yeah
09:59:39  <Tobin> peter1138: You bastard. :)
09:59:53  <Fujitsu> peter1138, very true :P
09:59:54  <peter1138> i don't block tunnelling under it though
10:00:07  <Tobin> Some people do though.
10:00:43  <Celestar> ok so what still crashes the game?
10:00:58  <Tobin> Celestar: buying land under bridges does.
10:01:38  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4781 /trunk/ (newgrf.c newgrf_engine.c newgrf_engine.h train_gui.c): - NewGRF: give _traininfo_vehicle_pitch a proper declaration
10:01:53  <Celestar> Tobin: ah.
10:02:41  <Tobin> Celestar: In fact every use of assert with MayHaveBridgeAbove() in the condition would seem suspect to me.
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10:03:00  <Celestar> yeah
10:03:20  <KUDr> hehe, depot under bridge looks really impressive
10:03:34  <Celestar> but usually the check is only done when the bridge is built, not when something is erected under the bridge :)
10:04:07  <vondel> "i must use diagonal tracks on sealevel"-kind-of-people ....
10:04:17  <Tobin> vondel: Yeah.
10:04:39  <KUDr> Celestar: is this the reason why i cannot build bridge over depot but can do it the other way?
10:04:49  <Fujitsu> Poor depot is getting mashed :(
10:05:00  <Celestar> yes, one check is made, the other one is not :)
10:05:22  <KUDr> so it should be forbidden?
10:05:31  <Celestar> not sure yet.
10:05:36  <Tobin> Remove the one that is made. I want depots under bridges. >:)
10:05:47  <Celestar> there should at least be enough clearance under the bridge.
10:05:49  <Fujitsu> hahhaha
10:05:56  <KUDr> Celestar: 2 levels above depot it looks fine
10:06:46  <Tobin> Hmmm.
10:07:02  <Fujitsu> Except when it has a pole going through it >_<
10:07:22  <Celestar> ^^
10:07:27  <Tobin> Is there a reason why stations couldn't be built under bridges? Not enough free bits in the map array?
10:07:50  *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd
10:08:21  <Celestar> Tobin: no.
10:08:36  <Tobin> No, not enough or no, there is no reason why not?
10:08:55  <Celestar> Tobin: There is no reason. It's forbidden deliberately at the moment.
10:09:03  <Tobin> Oh.
10:09:03  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
10:09:05  <Fujitsu> Something stuffed up.
10:09:06  <Celestar> it's just a very very simple check (=
10:09:11  <Fujitsu> A train crashed...
10:09:25  <Fujitsu> There's only one around...
10:09:41  <Fujitsu> And it's also now digging into the ground (previously on a bridge six levels up)
10:09:53  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
10:09:58  <Fujitsu> Actually, there are two...
10:10:07  *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
10:10:13  <Fujitsu> They appear to be in exactly the same spot, which is forbidden by the signalling.
10:10:30  <Celestar> depots and bridges in the same block cause trouble :(
10:10:54  <Tobin> Heh, I think I might dig about in CmdBuildRailroadStation for a while then. :)
10:11:00  <Celestar> Tobin: nope.
10:11:01  <Celestar> :)
10:11:19  <Tobin> Celestar: Somewhere else?
10:11:31  <Celestar> Tobin: MayHaveBridgeAbove is one thing.
10:12:09  <Tobin> Ah, so CheckFlatLandBelow would be the place to start?
10:12:19  <Celestar> but that only allows building bridge over station.
10:12:25  <Celestar> CheckFlatLandBelow is another thing to check,
10:12:29  <Tobin> That's a start.
10:12:32  <Tobin> Heh.
10:12:58  * Tobin comments a couple of if statements out
10:13:08  <Celestar> lol
10:13:19  <Fujitsu> Heheheh
10:13:24  <Fujitsu> Such is programming...
10:13:52  <Tobin> And... assertion failed :)
10:14:01  * Tobin removes more checks
10:14:19  <Tobin> What could possibly go wrong? ;-)
10:16:12  <peter1138> heh
10:16:46  * Celestar fixes the unmovable problem.
10:16:53  <Fujitsu> Which?
10:17:08  <peter1138> you made them movable? ;)
10:18:24  <Celestar> with the Owned Land.
10:18:32  <Celestar> you can now purchase Land under bridges.
10:18:46  <Celestar> and you can build bridges over Owned Land (do we want that?)
10:19:04  <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
10:19:12  <Fujitsu> You might want that...
10:19:16  <Fujitsu> I'm not sure.
10:19:31  <SpComb> ooh, no more bllocking off with owned land
10:19:34  <Celestar> buying land under bridge... sure, but the other way round?.
10:19:50  <peter1138> you might've bought that land to build a station...
10:20:16  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah
10:20:46  * Celestar disallows building bridges over owned land.
10:21:03  <Celestar> peter1138: we should allow certain station tiles to have bridges over them?
10:21:20  <peter1138> how?
10:21:37  <Celestar> well, Allowing it is not the problem, disallowing it is :)
10:21:47  <Tobin> Heh, as it currently stands stations chop out sections of bridge when they are drawn.
10:22:19  <Tobin> Gives a cute "flying train" effect when one goes over the bridge.
10:22:29  <Celestar> Tobin: Call DrawBridgeMiddle(ti) in DrawTile_Station :)
10:22:36  <Tobin> Hehe.
10:22:45  <Tobin> Will do!
10:22:46  <Celestar> peter1138: maybe each station tile can have a clearance above it?
10:23:12  <Tobin> Bridge sections should be drawn last right?
10:23:17  <Celestar> Tobin: yes.
10:23:59  <Tobin> Hmmm, but for each tile.
10:24:07  * Tobin prods the code about a bit.
10:24:18  <Celestar> er
10:24:26  <peter1138> Celestar: tricky
10:24:29  <Celestar> DrawTile_Station is called for each tile.
10:24:35  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah... something for da future.
10:24:36  <Tobin> Ah, ok.
10:24:37  <peter1138> Celestar: extending the newstations spec would... hmm
10:24:59  <Tobin> foreach_draw_tile_seq threw me off for a second.
10:25:08  <peter1138> even the same station tile type can have different height sprites on it
10:25:57  <peter1138> we could do it by getting the actually tile to be drawn, and then getting its height from the sprite bounding boxes
10:26:29  <peter1138> but 1) it might not be correct anyway 2) the sprites used could change later
10:27:56  <Celestar> peter1138: ok then lets disallow it anyway :)
10:28:15  <peter1138> we could allow it for default stations which are just platforms...
10:28:28  <peter1138> but there'd be complaints about it not working on other types, i bet
10:28:33  <Celestar> true :)
10:30:27  <Celestar> maybe even they are too high.
10:30:35  <Celestar> we need proper bridge graphics damnit
10:30:57  * Vornicus ponders.
10:31:41  <Vornicus> It would be nice if I could convert rail lines by clicking on a section of rail and then the whole line that that section touches converts.
10:32:45  <Vornicus> as opposed to having to lasso each individual chunk of rail, which is sometimes very difficult in tight routing situations where combining rails is still unsuitable
10:34:10  <Vornicus> (granted, not that often, but)
10:34:55  <Tobin> Hehe, http://hazy.stupor.org/stuff/bridge-over-station.png
10:35:12  <Vornicus> Trippy.
10:35:45  <Fujitsu> Poor station :(
10:35:50  * Fujitsu calls an ambulance for it.
10:35:57  <Tobin> Oh, blast I thought I'd resized the window so that you couldn't see that the road terminated in the middle of nowhere.
10:36:06  <Fujitsu> Heheheheh
10:36:14  <Fujitsu> You fail at making good-looking screenshots :P
10:36:21  <Tobin> In fact, all of you stop looking at it I'm going to spice it up a bit.
10:36:36  * Fujitsu copies it and posts it everywhere he can think of.
10:36:38  <Fujitsu> :P
10:36:47  <Tobin> Ah, crap, I mean I would spice it up if I hadn't already closed the game. :/
10:37:10  *** axadhus [n=mav@ganymed.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd
10:37:42  <Fujitsu> eDad
10:37:44  <Fujitsu> fkhaldha sdlkhsfbdnfasd
10:37:46  <Fujitsu> kfkjshdfskjhf
10:37:49  <Fujitsu> Hahahahahah
10:37:54  * Fujitsu laughs at Tobin :P
10:38:05  <Fujitsu> Stuck with the dodgy screenshot /forever/.
10:38:19  <Tobin> Oh, I could delete it.
10:38:42  <Fujitsu> Damn.
10:38:43  * Fujitsu copies.
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10:41:43  <Celestar> Tobin: you coule have used the save game button ^^
10:42:15  <Tobin> Bah!
10:42:31  <Tobin> Celestar: I could also redo the whole thing in a couple of minutes. :)
10:43:15  <Celestar> (=
10:43:58  <Tobin> It works as well as could be expected, btw. I.e. it doesn't seem to crash when doing the ordinary station type things.
10:45:30  <peter1138> can i have 4 extra bits for newstations? ;)
10:46:05  <Celestar> peter1138: soon, yes.
10:46:19  <peter1138> 1) blocked, 2) catenary, 3) wire, 4) pbs
10:46:44  <peter1138> currently 1 is done by doing lots of look ups
10:46:52  <peter1138> could be a bit slow
10:47:16  <peter1138> a quick HASBIT would be nicer...
10:47:44  <KUDr> peter1138: can you have 2 biths for pbs? (1 for each direction)
10:47:53  <Hackykid> hehe :-)
10:48:34  <Hackykid> everyone wants BITS! :-p
10:48:34  <peter1138> if you insist
10:48:40  <peter1138> i don't really need it
10:49:03  <KUDr> i suspect i will need 2
10:50:30  <Celestar> ok.
10:50:34  <Tobin> KUDr: How's YAPF going by the way?
10:50:37  <Celestar> we should soon add at least another 8 bits ...
10:50:57  <KUDr> Tobin: does it work for you now?
10:51:06  <Tobin> KUDr: I haven't tried.
10:51:12  <KUDr> please...
10:51:20  <Tobin> Celestar: Distracted me with his stuff under bridges.
10:51:27  <Tobin> KUDr: OK, one moment.
10:51:38  <peter1138> i think 0.5 may actually rock :)
10:52:16  <Tobin> Heh.
10:52:39  <Tobin> I'm starting to get that feeling.
10:52:47  <Tobin> Was there a list of planned features?
10:52:53  <peter1138> r bridges.
10:52:56  <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=440170#440170
10:53:35  <peter1138> i reckon, if someone wants a game like that, they should play that game...
10:54:04  <Tobin> True, but I'm all in favour of pre-rendered sprites.
10:54:40  <peter1138> i like our little 8 bit handdrawn stuff :)
10:54:46  <Celestar> Tobin: yes.
10:54:55  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/ottd_features
10:55:02  <vondel> i was wondering if someone had already made a tool to create a blend-file out of a savegame (+ blendfiles of all items on the map in the savegame)
10:55:06  <peter1138> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/ottd_features
10:55:07  <peter1138> that too
10:55:09  <peter1138> errrrr
10:55:12  <peter1138> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Roadmap_0.5
10:55:12  <peter1138> that too
10:55:30  <Noldo> vondel: what are you talking about?
10:55:55  <Celestar> vondel: you cannot make 3D information out of 2D information
10:56:06  <vondel> so someone can render their game to a nice picture
10:56:33  <KUDr> hmm: Path Based Signalling - KUDr - Bugfixing
10:56:33  <vondel> Celestar: all objects are known in location, so it's doable
10:56:34  * Vornicus points out that what vondel is talking about is indeed possible
10:56:46  <Vornicus> just difficult.
10:56:49  <Darkvater> anyone heard from egladil lately? The 32bpp branch is frighteningly silent
10:57:00  <Noldo> vondel: savegame isn't enough for that?
10:57:24  <Vornicus> Noldo: of course not, you need blender objects for all the buildings and trees and tracks and...
10:57:44  <Noldo> but there are no such things?
10:57:56  <Vornicus> Not all of them, no
10:58:38  <vondel> i don't think a real-time-convertor + renderer would be possible in the near future
10:58:56  <Vornicus> a real time converter to 3d data is perfectly possible.
10:59:06  <Vornicus> It just won't be blender;
10:59:12  <Vornicus> it will be OpenGL
10:59:40  <Noldo> vondel: but you want to have nice screenshot with nice new graphics from a game that you played with old graphics?
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11:00:05  <Tobin> KUDr: It still crashes on launch.
11:00:24  <Tobin> KUDr: Debug builds work correctly though.
11:00:30  <KUDr> Tobin: could be sizeof(bool) issue
11:00:45  <KUDr> can you measure the size of bool in C++?
11:01:03  <KUDr> the same issue was on morphos
11:01:05  <Tobin> KUDr: It's a dynamic library problem apparently.
11:01:05  <vondel> Noldo: would be nice to rotate around a megalomaniac contruction :)
11:01:10  <Tobin> KUDr: OK, hang on.
11:01:14  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-236-72.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
11:01:19  <Sacro> afternoon all
11:02:13  <KUDr> Tobin: i thought you have solved the dynlib problem with Bjarni
11:02:26  <KUDr> as it works for him
11:02:33  <Tobin> KUDr: No, it's still there.
11:02:56  <KUDr> bu please measure the C++ bool anyway
11:03:05  <Tobin> KUDr: It may have something to do with architecture then.
11:03:23  <KUDr> PowerPC?
11:03:35  <KUDr> Bjarni has the same or not?
11:03:35  <peter1138> x86, but mac
11:03:42  <peter1138> (aiui)
11:03:49  *** robohomework is now known as roboman
11:03:54  <Tobin> Bjarni has PPC I've got i386.
11:04:24  <KUDr> aha, so i can try it at work on MacMini
11:04:34  <KUDr> we have one w/ intel
11:05:32  <Tobin> KUDr: sizeof(bool) = 1
11:05:38  <KUDr> fine
11:05:43  <KUDr> it is good
11:05:50  <KUDr> was it in C++?
11:06:04  <Tobin> KUDr: Yes, that's why it took me so long.
11:06:12  <KUDr> ok thanks
11:06:24  <Tobin> Stupid namespaces. I'd forgotten about them.
11:06:52  * Tobin sets fire to a "'cout' was not declared in this scope" message
11:07:14  <KUDr> should use printf
11:07:19  <KUDr> it still works
11:07:34  <Tobin> Meh, as soon as I figured out why it wasn't working it was a quick fix.
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11:13:24  <Celestar> so
11:13:29  <Celestar> more stuff to fix.
11:13:59  <roboman> gnight
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11:15:19  <KUDr> Celestar: yes, it is our makefile/C++ issue
11:15:22  <Tobin> Celestar: When can we expect the next lot of things-needing-testing? Or should we not expect it and just be pleasantly surprised when it arrives? :)
11:15:53  <Celestar> Buoys under bridge work.
11:16:09  <Celestar> Tobin: currently I have most of my effort in the bridge stuff.
11:16:19  <Celestar> I want to apply RichK's airports later this week.
11:16:29  <Tobin> Erm, so sooner rather than later then?
11:18:02  <Celestar> we'll see how much time RealLife takes
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11:19:14  <KUDr> Celestar: /branch/bridge if really GOOOOOOOD thing. Must be lot of work behind, i guess
11:19:35  <Celestar> KUDr: well Tron's done a LOT of work.
11:19:44  <Celestar> and I have done another lot
11:19:47  <KUDr> well done!
11:19:56  <Celestar> and the map accessor stuff was even "more lot" :P
11:19:59  <Sacro> is looking good
11:20:12  <Celestar> the only thing I need is a working diff :S
11:20:19  <Noldo> map accessors are paying off already?
11:20:29  <KUDr> map accessors are needed anyway - so again: good work
11:21:57  <Rubidium> Celestar: did you forget the past 2090/32 bits dates in your OTTD feature list or was it intentional left out?
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11:23:01  <egladil> [12:56] Darkvater: anyone heard from egladil lately? The 32bpp branch is frighteningly silent <=== i've heard from him :)
11:23:26  <egladil> i haven't had any time to code lately, so much schoolwork :/
11:23:30  <Celestar> Rubidium: I gore or less forgot :S
11:24:39  <Darkvater> ah, hopefully the load'll go down egladil :)
11:24:56  <Rubidium> I've just updated the diff to the latest trunk, so everyone interested in the patch can test it
11:25:28  *** tron__ is now known as Tron
11:26:09  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/ottd_features <= RFC
11:26:11  <egladil> yeah, soon school will be out for summer
11:26:13  * Celestar <= work
11:26:26  <Rubidium> URL to diffs (against various revisions): http://rubidium.student.utwente.nl/openttd/past2090/ and bugs can be reported to http://bugs.openttd.org/task/143
11:29:39  <Darkvater> I think 0.5 is too ambitious for a july? timeframe
11:29:48  <Darkvater> eg full newgrf support is not realistic
11:29:49  <Celestar> Darkvater: branching it, not releasing it.
11:30:12  <Darkvater> wasn't that a release-feature-list?
11:30:30  <Celestar> yes but without timeframe.
11:31:05  <Celestar> hm ..
11:31:06  <Darkvater> ah...I think a timeframe, some timeframe at least is desirable
11:31:09  <Celestar> how much in newgrif is missing?
11:31:20  <Darkvater> industry/town/cargo
11:31:32  <Celestar> what will be next?
11:31:55  <Darkvater> and trams
11:32:09  <Celestar> Trams are like buses?
11:32:21  <Darkvater> donnu, never played'em
11:32:33  <Celestar> k.
11:33:27  <peter1138> yeah
11:33:35  <peter1138> trams shouldn't be that hard, really
11:33:43  <Celestar> so what IS the difference between a Tram and a bus?
11:33:48  <Celestar> (apart from the sprites)
11:34:02  <peter1138> the road type
11:34:14  <peter1138> it's almost cosmetic
11:34:23  <Celestar> we don't really have different road types ...
11:34:29  <peter1138> neither did ttdp
11:34:40  <peter1138> also
11:34:50  <peter1138> because you can have both normal road and tram tracks
11:34:56  <peter1138> well
11:35:04  <Celestar> I see
11:35:05  <peter1138> it uses 4 bits for road, and 4 bits for tram
11:35:23  <Celestar> Belugas: hows stuff on the map-accessor front?
11:35:58  <peter1138> it shouldn't be that hard, though
11:36:06  <peter1138> the pathfinder needs to know about roadtype, though
11:36:11  <peter1138> (as it does for railtype)
11:36:20  <Celestar> that shouldn't be difficult
11:36:42  <Qball> I still vote for hover-busses, that don't care about terrain.
11:36:48  <peter1138> heh
11:37:01  <Noldo> Qball: sounds too helicoptery
11:37:12  <peter1138> articulated road vehicles might be awkards
11:37:12  <peter1138> -s
11:38:00  <Darkvater> ar what?
11:38:13  <peter1138> well
11:38:16  <Darkvater> like real trucks with a ehhh box behind?
11:38:24  <peter1138> that too
11:38:27  <Darkvater> my english is subpar today
11:38:37  <Celestar> Darkvater: "trailer"
11:38:41  <peter1138> but often a tram will come in 2 or 3 parts
11:38:43  <Darkvater> exactly
11:39:03  <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/files/bridges2_211.png
11:39:20  <Darkvater> the good part is that if we have trailers for road-vehicles, all we need is cmdbuildtrain function cause essentially it's the same
11:39:44  <Tobin> Could trams go beyond the in road rails? I.e. drive off the road and onto some sort of narrow gauge track?
11:39:49  <Celestar> er guys.
11:40:00  <peter1138> Tobin: see the track to the right of that picture
11:40:07  <peter1138> Celestar?
11:40:09  <Celestar> would anyone mind to put up a bridge-showoff-thread onto the forum?
11:40:11  <Tobin> peter1138: Only just looked, yeah.
11:40:19  <Darkvater> hehe check the rigth-lower tunnel entrance...just looks awkward
11:40:29  <Darkvater> the rails are floatinginto the tunnel ^^
11:40:49  <peter1138> squeezes into a tiny opening, heh
11:40:53  <Darkvater> Celestar: said the same thing yesterday but I am not going to burn my fingers on the subject again :P
11:41:00  <Darkvater> we need one of our fanboys to do it
11:41:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: burn? :)
11:41:10  <Darkvater> like meush or born_acorn
11:41:23  <peter1138> i have a whole thread dedicated to me & newstations... how strange
11:41:24  <Celestar> SELECT * FROM users WHERE ottd_fanboy = true
11:41:49  <Darkvater> insufficient memory
11:41:59  <Fujitsu> Celestar, are you going to commit that diff at all?
11:42:04  <Tobin> Celestar: Would you object to me including my bridges over a station stuff (with an explanation that it isn't going to be possible) in the thread?
11:42:19  <Fujitsu> And how did you manage the bridges without a new map array.
11:42:34  <Celestar> Tobin: not yet, I'm working on it. we needa decide how to implement it.
11:42:39  <Celestar> Fujitsu: tron's magic :)
11:42:42  <Fujitsu> That should have ended with a ?
11:42:44  <Tobin> Oh, and who's up for mentioning the bridge stuff in #tycoon on quakenet? ;-)
11:42:44  <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
11:42:46  <Celestar> a bridge middle part uses exactly one bit :)
11:42:48  <Fujitsu> Hackish, byt the sounds.
11:42:55  <Fujitsu> Tobin, I'll help!
11:43:01  <Sacro> whats the quakenet server?
11:43:04  <Tobin> Celestar: Fair enough. So bridges over stations are still a possibility?
11:43:13  <Tobin> Er, slow down guys I was joking.
11:43:29  <Celestar> Tobin: sooner or later, yeah. it's just a gameplay function...
11:43:29  <Fujitsu> Tobin, we should :)
11:43:33  <Celestar> s/function/question
11:43:35  <Fujitsu> Convert some people :P
11:43:59  <Tobin> Celestar: I think I can come up with some situations where they would be useful.
11:44:14  <Celestar> me too
11:44:32  <Fujitsu> Tobin, certainly.
11:44:58  <Tobin> Fujitsu: Well get some good screenshots together before you start telling anyone about it. And if the patch devs get angry don't press it.
11:45:06  <Fujitsu> Tobin, perhaps.
11:45:20  <Fujitsu> Screenshots are good, but the patch devs won't get angry...
11:45:43  <Celestar> note to self: panning will not work in a screenshot
11:45:46  <Fujitsu> It's just not practical to do some things in ASM-patched executables.
11:45:50  <Fujitsu> Celestar, probably not :P
11:46:01  <Zr40_> yuck
11:46:05  <Sacro> Celestar: your a dev, code it :)
11:46:11  <Fujitsu> Hahahahh!
11:46:12  <Fujitsu> True!
11:46:18  <peter1138> crap
11:46:29  <Fujitsu> peter1138: ?
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11:47:11  <Celestar> I'm not a gwenview-dev :P
11:49:40  <peter1138> saved a var with the wrong type
11:49:53  <peter1138> hence it breaks on macs
11:49:55  <peter1138> "oops"
11:50:03  <peter1138> should i fix it
11:50:04  <peter1138> or
11:50:11  <peter1138> should i fix it and up the savegame revision
11:50:12  <Fujitsu> Celestar, I don't like Gwenview...
11:50:36  <peter1138> (it's only been in one nightly)
11:50:36  <peter1138> hmm
11:50:39  <peter1138> hmmm
11:50:49  <peter1138> or i can limit the ingame var
11:50:53  <peter1138> then existing savegames will work
11:50:59  <Celestar> Fujitsu: it's ok for just looking at a picture :)
11:51:01  <peter1138> that sounds the best plan
11:51:45  <Celestar> for consistency, I'll interdict building of depots below bridges for the time being
11:52:31  <Darkvater> peter1138: do NOT worry about nightlies
11:52:41  <Darkvater> do NOT jump through hoops just to get them working
11:53:35  <Fujitsu> Yeah, fix the issue, don't workaround!
11:57:12  <Celestar> k I need more bridge stuff testing
11:58:04  <peter1138> Darkvater: i can limit it from 256 to 255, and then everyone will be happy
11:58:32  <peter1138> (and that number is vastly higher than it needs to be)
11:59:43  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridgesource.tar.gz <= new tarball
12:00:04  <Celestar> please more feedback Hackykid Fujitsu Tobin et al
12:00:20  <Tobin> Celestar: I'm experimenting right now. :)
12:00:30  <Fujitsu> I'm about to go to bed, but I'll test anyway.
12:00:31  <Tobin> Celestar: I'll get to the new version soon.
12:00:35  <Fujitsu> Celestar, what's the difference?
12:01:26  <Celestar> Fujitsu: currently, buoys and owned land works under bridges, depots / waypoints are not allowed until I have sorted out the clearance problem, and you should not be able to build bridges through bridgeheads
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12:01:36  <Fujitsu> Aha.
12:02:15  <Zr40> you guys having fun in #tycoon? ;)
12:02:27  <Tobin> No.
12:03:02  <Noldo> Zr40: hm?
12:03:12  <Prof_Frink> Zr40: Yeswe are and you're not invited.
12:03:13  <peter1138> o_O
12:03:18  <Fujitsu> ...
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12:03:45  <Celestar> hm?
12:03:54  <Zr40> Prof_Frink: channel mode is still not +i ;)
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12:05:15  <peter1138> anyone with a mac?
12:05:29  <Celestar> Tobin is :)
12:05:32  <Prof_Frink> 00:11:50:45:4B:DE
12:05:38  <peter1138> can you test newstations with & without http://195.112.37.102/ottd/speclistfix.diff
12:05:43  <Prof_Frink> That one do?
12:05:50  <peter1138> harr har
12:05:50  <Celestar> but Tobin is on Intel-Mac afaik?
12:05:57  <Tobin> peter1138: In a while.
12:06:01  <Tobin> Celestar: That's right.
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12:06:12  <peter1138> basically i changed the ingame var to make the savegame var
12:06:26  <peter1138> and sacrifice 1 possible station entry
12:06:36  * Tobin dislikes having to look at little endian hex dumps nowadays
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12:07:29  <Celestar> Tobin: ^^
12:08:27  <peter1138> hmm, test it compiles first, i suppose :P
12:09:58  <Tobin> Wheee: http://hazy.stupor.org/stuff/bridge-over-station-2.png
12:10:06  <Hackykid> Celestar: hmm, seems i can still build bridges through bridgeheads?
12:10:26  <Celestar> you can?
12:11:00  <Celestar> yes you can
12:11:01  <Celestar> :S
12:11:13  <Hackykid> hehe
12:11:16  <Fujitsu> Goodnight all.
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12:17:27  <KUDr> Celestar: how can i build bridge crossing bridge?
12:18:49  <Celestar> KUDr: few bridge support only 1 height level difference, most need 2-5 levels difference
12:18:57  <Celestar> KUDr: use "concrete bridge" as the lower bridge for testing
12:19:07  <KUDr> ok, thanks
12:19:32  <Noldo> Celestar: do the latice bridges reserve more space?
12:20:48  <Celestar> Noldo: I don't understand?
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12:21:23  <Noldo> Celestar: are ther bridges that are higher than others, I mean from the deck up
12:21:25  <Sacro> Celestar: i think he means height clearance/
12:21:58  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bridgesource.tar.gz <= new.
12:22:08  <TL|Away> Hi all
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12:22:16  <Celestar> Noldo: clearance is (more or less) taken into account
12:22:32  <Noldo> :)
12:23:24  <Celestar> some anomalies remain due to crappy sprites
12:25:58  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that tram catenary looks kinda ugly and overloaded
12:26:45  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yes, it does
12:27:13  <Celestar> KUDr: does it work?
12:27:24  <KUDr> yes
12:27:32  <KUDr> very nice
12:27:35  <Celestar> also with YAPF?
12:27:44  <KUDr> i never had such bridges on my PC
12:27:48  <Celestar> shouldn't be too much of a problem to adapt
12:27:49  <Celestar> :)
12:27:49  <KUDr> no
12:27:58  <KUDr> i didn't try to merge it
12:28:06  <Celestar> I can imagine
12:28:12  <Celestar> that should possibly be done once YAPF is merged.
12:28:13  <KUDr> yapf will need many changes i guess
12:28:20  <Celestar> you think so?
12:28:21  <KUDr> yes i know
12:28:28  <KUDr> possible
12:28:33  <Celestar> what else besides GetBridgeEnd and GetBridgeLength do you need? ;)
12:28:39  <KUDr> but id bridges behave differently...
12:28:46  <Celestar> id bridges?
12:28:48  <KUDr> yapf must know it or not?
12:28:55  <KUDr> id->if
12:29:05  <Celestar> they don't act MUCH differently :)
12:29:07  <KUDr> sorry
12:29:21  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/openttd/branch/bridge]> svn diff npf.c | wc -l
12:29:21  <Celestar> 102
12:29:22  <Celestar> hmm
12:29:24  <KUDr> did you do any changes into npf?
12:29:48  <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/npf_changes
12:29:52  <Celestar> those are my changes to npf
12:30:17  <Celestar> the look like microscopic (=
12:30:23  <KUDr> yes
12:30:26  <KUDr> should be ok
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12:30:38  <Celestar> any timeframe when YAPF will be mergable?
12:30:43  <KUDr> i must change only FollowTrack class
12:31:19  <KUDr> it depends on when OSX problems will be solved
12:31:26  <KUDr> and i don't have OSX
12:31:28  <Vornicus> what OSX problems?
12:31:31  <Vornicus> I have OSX
12:31:40  <KUDr> Tobin can explain
12:31:52  <Vornicus> bah
12:31:56  <KUDr> it has problems C++ vs. dynlibs
12:31:56  <Tobin> Bah!
12:32:08  <Tobin> Debug builds work fine.
12:32:11  <KUDr> it is not yapf specific
12:32:20  <Vornicus> aha
12:32:27  <KUDr> it is more makefile problem
12:32:37  <KUDr> but i don't smoke makefiles
12:33:02  <Vornicus> I learned makefiles from Bjarni.
12:33:18  <Celestar> KUDr: otherwise the code is clean?
12:33:21  <Tobin> Woot: http://hazy.stupor.org/stuff/bridge-over-bridge.png
12:33:25  <KUDr> Vornicus: and do u have mac with x86?
12:33:36  <Celestar> yes Tobin :)
12:33:42  <Vornicus> God, I wish.
12:34:02  <KUDr> Clestar: only the non-90-deg turns must be added correctly - so no YAPF types are needed anymore
12:34:09  <KUDr> but it is easy to do
12:34:18  <KUDr> then savegame cganges
12:34:21  <Celestar> Tobin: rather help KUDr with is MacOS problems, otherwise other stuff will be delayed (=
12:34:22  <KUDr> changes
12:34:25  <Tobin> Celestar: I know, you know but other people won't understand why it's cool until they see screenshots. :-)
12:34:47  <Tobin> Celestar: I'm not sure what's wrong with the Makefile I need to talk to Bjarni.
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12:34:57  <ernie_> hi
12:34:58  <Celestar> KUDr: did you figure out the Command-stuff for MP?
12:35:02  *** ernie_ is now known as ernie_hh
12:35:07  <Celestar> Tobin: what seems to be the problem?
12:35:11  <Celestar> I know a tiny bit about Makefiles
12:35:12  <KUDr> Celestar: partially
12:35:19  <KUDr> i will postpone it for later
12:35:23  <Celestar> 90% of what I know about them is : they suck ... but ok.
12:35:30  <KUDr> it will be too much work
12:35:31  <Celestar> KUDr: ah ok :)
12:35:36  <Celestar> you think so?
12:35:47  <KUDr> wo for now not player based yapf settings
12:35:47  <Tobin> Celestar: It's got something to do with whether or not we're building a static binary.
12:36:15  <Celestar> KUDr: I think that's ok. users shouldn't need to tune the settings anyway to have a working netwerk (=
12:36:42  <Tobin> All right, time for some more YAPF stuff...
12:36:57  <Celestar> peter1138: http://hazy.stupor.org/stuff/bridge-over-station-2.png <= should we allow this or not? ;)
12:37:01  <KUDr> Celestar: yes, i think so too after studying what it would need
12:37:11  <hylje> yes
12:37:40  <hylje> the tunnel and bridge end looks a bit glitchy tho
12:38:02  <Celestar> hylje: yes, but that's a very fundamental problem about tunnel sprites.
12:38:05  <Celestar> so we need new sprites
12:38:13  <Tobin> I think I'll show the bridge over bridge screenshot to the patch people. If no one can think of a good reason for me to restrain myself.
12:38:50  <Celestar> I think the patch people know, but feel free to go ahead
12:39:01  <Celestar> Tobin: http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/demo.png
12:39:56  <Tron> glitch
12:40:03  <Tron> the lower yellow bridge
12:40:07  <Celestar> yes.
12:40:12  <hylje> yes
12:40:14  <Celestar> and I'm wondering WHY.
12:40:44  <Tron> simple, the bounding box for bridge "sides" is the same for all bridge types and tiles
12:40:50  <Tron> and it's pretty high
12:40:57  <peter1138> anyone know what the current version of AOL's software is?
12:41:15  <Celestar> we finally need someone to draw us proper bridge sprites
12:41:24  <Tron> it's basically as high as the pillars in the neighbouring tiles
12:41:34  <peter1138> Celestar: i've drawn some :)
12:41:44  <peter1138> not complete, though :/
12:42:04  <Celestar> we should ask Purno
12:42:26  <peter1138> born_acorn drew some, which mine is based on
12:43:14  <Tron> should i join #tycoon and bring popcorn?
12:43:30  <Noldo> Tron: what's going on there?
12:43:46  <Tron> no idea, that's why i'm asking
12:44:09  <Tobin> Tron: It's fairly tame, eis_os seems to think it's peter1138's original patch though.
12:44:28  <peter1138> no, he's seen it before, heh
12:44:41  <Tobin> Celestar's work?
12:44:48  * Celestar thinks that TTPD doesn't "worry" about us.
12:44:49  <peter1138> well, tron's
12:44:53  <Celestar> Tobin: it's mostly Tron's work.
12:44:56  <Celestar> apart from the crossing stuff
12:45:00  <Tobin> Ah, ok.
12:45:05  <Tobin> Tron's work then.
12:45:07  <peter1138> http://195.112.37.102/ottd/pjn-via.png << my old bridge sprites, unfinished
12:45:21  <peter1138> due to bridges being 8 pixels high, it looks very shallow...
12:45:39  <peter1138> (also, no texturing, heh)
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12:46:09  <Tobin> "<eis_os> Tobin: aswell I know that it had problems with train reversing" <--- Is this still true?
12:46:16  <Celestar> nope.
12:46:20  <Hackykid> [14:45] <Celestar> eis_os: there are no problems anymore with reversing ;)
12:46:21  <Hackykid> :-p
12:47:48  <Tobin> Heh, I'm tempted to show off the second bridge over station shot but it'd give the wrong impression.
12:49:38  *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd
12:49:50  <Tobin> Celestar?
12:50:10  <peter1138> i dunno
12:50:20  <peter1138> it seems a bit arrogant to barge in a paste screenshots of a feature they don't have ;p
12:50:57  <Tobin> True... maybe there should be some newstations action in the screenshots so they feel more "at home". ;-)
12:51:04  *** MrRexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-15616.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd
12:51:09  <orudge> "they"
12:51:12  * orudge coughs
12:51:16  <orudge> But ah well.
12:51:26  <peter1138> hmm?
12:52:01  <Tobin> orudge: Well, I still _can't_ run ttdp so from my point of view "they" works. :)
12:52:01  *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:52:07  <orudge> It annoys me a bit the way everyone is always "us" and "them", on both sides. To a point it maybe is, but it still annoys me :p
12:52:14  * orudge is interested in both camps :p
12:52:56  <Tobin> Yeah, true.
12:52:58  <peter1138> orudge: me too
12:53:12  <peter1138> orudge: but that was in context...
12:53:56  <orudge> What's all this about assembly, anyway? :p
12:54:01  * orudge must have missed it
12:54:11  <peter1138> bad joke :)
12:54:17  <orudge> I was wondering...
12:54:19  <Qball> it's fast, and incompatible
12:54:34  <orudge> Well, you'd just need to create a PPC version too ;>
12:54:37  <orudge> and any other platforms :p
12:54:51  <Tobin> Heh.
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13:00:09  <peter1138> Tobin: got a chance to test this patch? it should let you join brianetta's server
13:00:18  *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp15-225.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd
13:02:28  * glx needs yapf or a new computer :)
13:03:08  <KUDr> glx: slow even with NTP?
13:04:31  <Darkvater> hmm
13:04:32  <glx> KUDr: brianetta's server uses NPF (and there's too many trains now)
13:04:40  * Darkvater joins #tycoon to see what all the fuss is about
13:04:42  <KUDr> aha
13:04:47  *** Darkvater [n=tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has quit ["Changing server"]
13:05:29  *** DarkSSH [n=tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has joined #openttd
13:05:30  *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ
13:05:33  <DarkSSH> ok, wrong irssi command
13:05:39  *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater
13:05:39  <peter1138> ehe
13:05:45  *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater
13:06:04  <Celestar> mh
13:06:33  <Celestar> I wish ttdp and openttd would join forces, but somehow I don't see that happening ...
13:06:55  <Darkvater> ah /connect
13:07:03  <peter1138> collaborate is probably the limit
13:07:09  <peter1138> and i do that, heh
13:07:12  <Darkvater> you can't join forces
13:07:23  <Darkvater> 1. WE are not going to learn assembly and program in it
13:07:34  <Darkvater> 2. THEY are not going to waste 4-5? years of work
13:08:26  <Celestar> note the "I don't see that happening" part.
13:08:37  <Darkvater> just saying :)
13:09:19  *** gingerninja [i=ginger@cuddly.pand.as] has left #openttd []
13:10:54  <Celestar> so ...
13:13:48  * Celestar needs more testing / bug reports
13:13:51  <Sacro> OTTDP
13:14:03  <Celestar> yeah!
13:14:17  <Celestar> they could start writing an assembler-based patch for ottd :)
13:14:24  <peter1138> o_O
13:14:33  <Tobin> peter1138: Sorry I was out of the room.
13:16:41  <Tobin> peter1138: What exactly am I looking for?
13:18:21  <peter1138> this morning you said you couldn't join brianetta's game
13:18:33  <Tobin> Ah, OK.
13:18:50  <Tobin> One moment,
13:20:44  *** RoySmeding [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
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13:30:30  <Tobin> peter1138: It works, thanks.
13:30:52  <Tobin> That server seriously needs a better new stations set though.
13:31:11  <glx> yeah newstatw.grf is not enough :)
13:31:28  <Tobin> jcindstaw.grf is quite nice.
13:31:38  <Sacro> mention them to Brianetta later
13:32:12  <glx> btw I now can't play on this server (too many trains for my CPU) :(
13:32:52  <peter1138> heh
13:33:02  <peter1138> so the fix works? excellent
13:33:21  <Tobin> Yes, it works.
13:33:31  <Tobin> I'm only spectating but, meh.
13:34:38  <peter1138> er, is mac little or big endian?
13:34:46  <Tobin> peter1138: Both.
13:34:53  <peter1138> don't be awkward
13:35:03  <Tobin> PPC Macs are big endian i386 Macs are little endian.
13:35:04  <Qball> he isn't
13:35:35  <Qball> can't ppc processors do both anyway?
13:35:57  <Tobin> Yeah but PPC Macs are big endian, always.
13:36:04  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4782 /trunk/ (newgrf_station.c station.h): - Newstations: fix issue with saving/loading games with newstations on big endian architectures.
13:36:32  <Tobin> Er, that fix was only for big endian architectures?
13:36:42  <Tobin> I'm on an i386 Mac.
13:36:58  <Tobin> Although it only crashed when I ran the PPC nightly build.
13:37:10  <peter1138> *sigh*
13:37:18  <peter1138> well i hope it works
13:37:31  <Tobin> peter1138: I might need to try that fix again with the next nightly. :(
13:37:43  <Tobin> Sorry, I didn't realise what you were doing...
13:38:29  <peter1138> well, it should be the right fix
13:38:38  <peter1138> as the vars were mixed
13:38:44  <peter1138> (i didn't intend to save it, originally)
13:39:33  <Qball> peter: http://images.qballcow.nl/openttd-newstation.png
13:39:38  <Qball> small glitch at the station
13:39:41  <Qball> twice the same station
13:39:47  <Qball> different graphics, and slightly overlapping
13:43:25  <peter1138> works fine for me
13:43:31  <Qball> you see the error?
13:43:47  <peter1138> if you've overbuilt different types, expect issues.
13:43:48  *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B36711.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
13:43:50  <Qball> the white station building is also on the other one (at the ground level)
13:44:01  <Qball> there twice the same station
13:44:07  <Qball> atleast I build it that way
13:44:40  <Qball> twice "nottingham"
13:44:47  <peter1138> http://195.112.37.102/ottd/ns8.png
13:44:58  <Qball> weird
13:45:02  <Qball> btw. I am on 64bit
13:45:06  *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8020A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
13:45:07  <Qball> linux
13:45:09  <peter1138> hmm
13:45:15  <peter1138> shouldn't be a problem, but...
13:47:20  <Sacro> bbl
13:47:23  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-236-72.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [" HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- State of the art IRC"]
13:47:51  <Celestar> so peter1138 what are your current projects?
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13:48:26  <Qball> world domination?
13:48:36  <Celestar> that'S not current
13:48:40  <Celestar> that comes AFTER 0.5.0
13:49:36  <Qball> sorry
13:49:36  <Tobin> Trams!
13:50:08  <Qball> signal gui? so it's finally done?
13:50:17  <peter1138> hmm
13:50:20  <peter1138> current projects
13:50:20  <Tobin> Heh.
13:50:25  <peter1138> newsounds (done, just needs updating)
13:50:32  <peter1138> 2cc (done, just needs, er, committing)
13:50:39  * Tobin bets peter1138 chooses a different project
13:50:45  <peter1138> and the newgrf saveload stuff
13:50:49  <Tobin> Yeah, 2cc is nifty.
13:53:08  <Celestar> peter1138: would you be in some custombridgeheads coding or not? ;)
13:53:37  *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498E3B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"]
13:54:19  <peter1138> well, i've done it once...
13:54:31  *** Hackykid [i=Hackykid@dyn-105215.nbw.tue.nl] has joined #openttd
13:54:37  <Darkvater> peter1138: current projects: saving newgrf
13:54:46  <Celestar> peter1138: it should be easy to do now (=
13:54:49  <Darkvater> freetype?
13:54:54  <peter1138> oh yes
13:54:57  <Celestar> but we need a branch or something.
13:54:59  <peter1138> freetype / utf-8
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13:55:23  <Celestar> ok
13:55:34  * Celestar thinks he'll do custombridgeheads on his own
13:56:15  <Celestar> but I need a branch anyway
13:56:41  <peter1138> most of my code is probably irrelevant
13:58:20  <Sionide> where's the list of translation strings if i wanted to start a new openttd translation?
13:59:11  <Celestar> Sionide: contact MiHaMiX about the exact procedure
13:59:27  <Sionide> i'm sure i've seen a list somewhere
13:59:32  <Sionide> anyone wanna help?
13:59:36  <Sionide> cockney rhyming slang :D
13:59:58  <glx> Sionide: try lang/english.txt :)
14:00:19  <Sionide> ohh
14:00:23  <Sionide> duh
14:00:30  <Sionide> what's the .lng file though?
14:00:35  *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd
14:00:51  <glx> compiled lang files
14:01:17  <Darkvater> Sionide: http://translator2.openttd.org
14:01:23  <Sionide> ah that's the one
14:04:11  <Sionide> no longer shall they be Mail carriages but Sunday Roasts
14:04:16  <Sionide> or Beans on Toasts
14:04:36  <Sionide> Hillman Hunters = Punters = Passengers
14:04:50  <Sionide> Darkvater, that's not loading :s
14:05:06  <Darkvater> hmm indeed :s
14:05:07  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: PING
14:05:13  <Darkvater> trans2 down
14:05:22  <Sionide> d'oh
14:05:36  *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
14:06:34  <Sionide> Uncle Gus
14:06:50  <Sionide> John Wayne
14:07:02  <Sionide> 'Apenny Dip
14:07:39  <Celestar> back
14:10:40  <Qball> the people on the stations are cool to
14:10:45  <Qball> just to bad I transport water.
14:11:43  *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B8020A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
14:12:08  *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has joined #openttd
14:12:13  * Sionide gives up on the idea
14:12:15  *** MeusH [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has joined #openttd
14:12:37  <Celestar> Darkvater: did you decide on your box?
14:12:39  <MeusH> hello
14:13:11  <Celestar> hullo
14:16:15  <Darkvater> Celestar: yes. Decided to postpone because the cashflow was inefficient
14:17:02  <Celestar> Darkvater: I see.
14:17:23  <Celestar> Darkvater: might wanna read http://www.techreport.com/etc/2006q2/system-guide/index.x?pg=1 anyway.
14:17:30  <Darkvater> kk
14:17:32  * Darkvater checks
14:18:45  <glx> peter1138: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=440111#440111 <-- are you aware of this bug ?
14:21:44  <Celestar> SGI filed for Chapter 11
14:22:06  <Darkvater> Celestar: didn't you want to ask some stuff to patchman?
14:23:52  <peter1138> glx: elrails? yes
14:26:21  <Celestar> peter1138: we should come up with some "hardcopy" idea about bridges methinks
14:26:42  <Celestar> Darkvater: so .. you can build a comp for 400 bucks. or 4000 :)
14:26:57  <Darkvater> wow, that IS helpful :)
14:26:59  <MeusH> am I that lagged or Celestar just wrote something about 400 bucks?
14:27:26  <Darkvater> that's how much you have to pay him to continue bridge-development
14:27:33  <Celestar> \o/
14:28:16  <MeusH> ohh only 13 seconds response time
14:28:23  <MeusH> -some for Darkvater posting
14:28:28  <MeusH> so that's just DNS screwed up
14:28:42  * MeusH gives Celestar 400 wonderdollars
14:29:05  *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498ED73.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
14:29:13  <Darkvater> I wonder how openttd.org donations are being?
14:29:20  <Darkvater> orudge: what is the sum on your end?
14:31:10  <MeusH> Still planning developement of PocketPC version?
14:33:24  *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:34:10  <Celestar> Darkvater: he ran away with all the money :P
14:34:24  <Darkvater> thought so ^^
14:35:34  *** ledow [n=ledow@jaimejwalker.plus.com] has joined #openttd
14:46:37  <glx> peter1138: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/newstations.diff <-- is this ok (don't draw catenary on non-track station tiles) ?
14:47:03  <orudge> Shall check later, Darkvater, am just going out now
14:47:12  <XeryusTC> hi all
14:47:13  <orudge> but there's a bit in the pot
14:47:25  <peter1138> glx: sort of.
14:47:35  <Celestar> orudge: like 20 bucks? ;)
14:47:45  <peter1138> there are specific
14:47:59  <orudge> Well, I'm sure there was at least EUR100 last time I checked
14:48:05  <orudge> but I may not be remembering correctly
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14:48:32  <squ> hi
14:48:43  <MeusH> hi
14:48:56  <MeusH> orudge: 100 what? I see a strange marks there
14:49:01  <MeusH> Euro? Pounds?
14:49:10  <glx> peter1138: the only problem I see with my fix is the buffers
14:49:32  <squ> can you guys send me needed files to run openttd?
14:49:51  <orudge> The EUR would be a Euro symbol.
14:49:51  <peter1138> err
14:49:54  <orudge> Get a better IRC client :p
14:50:02  <orudge> or switch to UTF-8
14:50:03  <peter1138> glx: there are specific flags for elrails
14:50:26  <peter1138> glx: basically, take the same code of IsStationTileBlocked() and use one of the vars other than blocked
14:50:33  <orudge> but can't remember how much it is anyway, need to go through my various accounts and check
14:50:42  <peter1138> pylons & wires
14:50:49  <peter1138> as listed in newgrf_station.h :)
14:51:02  <glx> ok I check :)
14:51:07  <peter1138> glx: if we get more map memory, it would be better to store those in the map, i think
14:51:13  <peter1138> be much quicker
14:51:41  <glx> yes but there's no space for now :)
14:51:45  <peter1138> quite
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14:52:06  <squ> hello?
14:52:19  <MeusH> hey
14:52:26  <MeusH> http://transporttycoon.net
14:52:58  <Brianetta> I liek the fact that one can electrify the car park (:
14:53:16  <Brianetta> Hey, can we have catenary on roads, too, for trolleybuses?
14:53:23  <Brianetta> and...
14:53:26  <Brianetta> bumpercars
14:53:27  <MeusH> trams
14:53:33  <peter1138> heh
14:53:38  <Brianetta> MeusH: Trolleybuses don't require rails
14:53:52  <MeusH> peter1138: that's probably a bug with newgrfs, but "bare land" for monorail is a coast graphics
14:54:28  <peter1138> yeah, cos it adds a railtype offset
14:54:43  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-239-157.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
14:54:56  <MeusH> buggy TTDPatch legacy
14:54:57  <MeusH> hmm
14:55:59  <Darkvater> hmm all I see is '(strange symbol)00 last time'
14:58:34  <peter1138> ?
14:59:02  <Darkvater> donation
14:59:16  <Darkvater> 16:47 <@orudge> Well, I'm sure there was at least ?00 last time I checked
14:59:16  *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498ED73.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
14:59:21  <orudge> EUR = Euro
14:59:23  <orudge> It's UTF-8
14:59:27  <Darkvater> so zero euros?
14:59:30  <orudge> No
14:59:30  <orudge> 100
14:59:35  <orudge> but that's not a figure I've checked
14:59:42  <orudge> that's just what I thought it was last time, which was months ago
15:00:01  <Darkvater> ah
15:00:03  <orudge> Ah
15:00:09  <Celestar> nice (=
15:00:10  <orudge> Indeed, in February, it was 125 euros
15:00:15  <orudge> checking my logs
15:00:20  <orudge> and there have been donations since then
15:00:23  <orudge> I just need to do my accounts and sort it all out ;)
15:00:32  * Darkvater looks suspiciously at orudge
15:00:50  <orudge> Nothing suspicious is going on as far as I can tell
15:00:57  <orudge> All the OpenTTD donations are labelled as such in PayPal
15:00:59  <Darkvater> hehe not on your side :P
15:01:02  <orudge> I just need to go through the list and add them all up :p
15:01:41  <Brianetta> and then spend!
15:03:07  * Sacro could do with some money
15:03:12  <Sacro> ooh hey Brianetta
15:03:14  <Celestar> ok what are we going to do to the bridges stuff I've done?
15:03:27  <Celestar> I've 4000 lines worth-o-diff here.
15:03:42  <MeusH> commit
15:03:43  <Darkvater> rm ;p
15:03:46  <Sacro> merge
15:03:52  <MeusH> + everyone wants it
15:03:55  <MeusH> + no bugs reported
15:04:02  <MeusH> any cons, lads?
15:04:03  <Hackykid> arent there?
15:04:04  <Sacro> + we nightly people will test it
15:04:07  <MeusH> yeah
15:04:12  <MeusH> that's what's svn is
15:04:17  <Darkvater> Celestar: did you talk about Tron this?
15:04:19  <MeusH> what for*
15:04:28  <Darkvater> *shuffle words around to get a comprehensible sentence*
15:05:05  <MeusH> sentence a words to shuffle get comprehensible around **?
15:05:13  * Sacro bangs head on desk
15:05:29  <MeusH> desk bangs head on Sacro
15:05:36  <Sacro> in soviet russia?
15:05:43  <XeryusTC> lol, there is a deer with a red piece of cloth in that thingy it has on its head (don't know how it's called) running around in the middle of the netherlands :P
15:05:44  <MeusH> russia soviet in?
15:05:58  <MeusH> XeryusTC, that's not fair! too long sentence :P
15:06:04  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: pong.
15:06:17  <XeryusTC> MeusH: you COULD turn your neck
15:06:18  <Sacro> XeryusTC: antlers
15:07:01  <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: translator offline
15:07:25  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: not anymore
15:07:33  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: f@#$RQ#WEWing apache2
15:07:55  <MiHaMiX> Darkvater: sometimes it's hang up, and leaving the port blocked
15:09:45  <Celestar> ok I'll create a new branch tomorrow for xbridges
15:09:48  <Celestar> cu tomorrow
15:10:05  <Sacro> noo, merge xbridges
15:10:41  <Celestar> it's not ready yet.
15:11:34  <Sacro> :( aww
15:12:40  <MeusH> xbridges?
15:12:50  *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80E66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
15:12:50  <MeusH> and what's that about?
15:12:54  <glx> crossing bridges
15:12:58  <MeusH> mmm
15:13:00  <MeusH> tasty
15:14:03  <Sacro> MeusH: didnt you just say commit it
15:15:18  *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd
15:15:24  *** Tobin [n=Tobin@c211-28-197-129.eburwd7.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit []
15:15:57  <MeusH> I said to commit bridges
15:15:59  <MeusH> not xbridges
15:17:57  *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B80E66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
15:18:36  <Sacro> whats the difference?
15:18:57  *** Dred_furst [i=nn@84.67.229.100] has joined #openttd
15:19:41  <MeusH> <glx> crossing bridges  <= xbridges
15:19:56  <Sacro> right
15:20:01  <MeusH> bridges over albitairy (I hate this word) stuff <= bridges
15:20:17  <Sacro> ahhh, commit that, it'd be usefu;
15:20:19  <glx> arbitrary :)
15:20:48  <Sacro> whose coding it?
15:21:01  <MeusH> Tron's and Celestar's IIRC
15:21:04  <MeusH> arbitrary
15:21:07  <MeusH> thanks glx :)
15:21:23  * MeusH thinks about arbitrary things trying to remember the word
15:21:39  <Brianetta> who's coding it (:
15:21:51  <Brianetta> Standads of English here are just as poor with the English
15:22:03  <Brianetta> <-- guilty as the rest
15:22:08  <Sacro> yeah, should be Tron and Celestar are
15:22:12  <glx> hmm let's stop the grammar lesson :)
15:22:28  <Sacro> and you can't use apostraphes in that context can you?
15:22:40  <Brianetta> Apostrophes?  Yes.
15:22:45  <MeusH> I meant
15:22:46  <Brianetta> who's is a contraction of who is
15:22:47  <MeusH> hmm
15:22:58  <MeusH> whose coding is this? Tron's and Celestar's
15:23:05  <MeusH> arbitrary
15:23:10  <Brianetta> "whose" is the wrong word
15:23:11  <Sacro> is it?
15:23:14  <Brianetta> Yes.
15:23:41  <Brianetta> Well, let's be clearer
15:23:46  <Brianetta> MeusH: got it right
15:23:57  <MeusH> what's the right word?
15:25:14  <Sacro> damn, wikitionary agrees
15:25:44  <peter1138> whose line is it anyway?
15:25:53  <Sacro> Brianetta: i can use it as an Interragotive Pronoun :)
15:26:04  <Sacro> as peter1138 has just used it
15:26:31  <peter1138> "who is coding it" is right
15:26:35  <peter1138> "whose coding is this" is right
15:26:52  <Sacro> as is "who's coding these" ?
15:26:54  <peter1138> "whose coding it" is wrong
15:26:58  <peter1138> "who's coding is this" is wrong
15:27:02  <MeusH> is "well" or "strongly" an adverb?
15:28:14  <Sacro> well can be depending on dialect
15:28:16  <Brianetta> MeusH: Yes
15:28:18  <Sacro> strongly is
15:28:33  <MeusH> okay, thanks
15:29:13  <Brianetta> well is adverbial
15:29:44  <Sacro> yeah, it is, my english is appawling
15:29:59  <MeusH> yeah, it is appawling indeed :)
15:30:07  <MeusH> oh, adverbial...
15:30:09  <Brianetta> Sacro: You are young... but you will learn, in time... (:
15:30:13  <MeusH> strange word for me
15:30:24  <MeusH> Brianetta is your father
15:30:25  <MeusH> nooo!
15:30:28  <Sacro> Brianetta: ive already ditched gcse english twice
15:30:46  <Brianetta> Sacro: Just as well.  You won't learn grammar with that syllabus.
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15:33:02  <MeusH> any adjective that ends in -e, please?
15:33:09  <MeusH> nvm
15:33:09  <Brianetta> vile
15:33:10  <MeusH> huge :P
15:33:14  <Brianetta> supreme
15:33:17  <MeusH> vile? what does it mean?
15:33:21  <Brianetta> Horrible
15:33:27  <MeusH> okay okay thanks
15:33:30  <MeusH> one is enough
15:33:32  <Brianetta> no
15:33:37  <Brianetta> vile means horrible (:
15:33:46  <MeusH> ty :)
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15:34:29  <Sacro> ever get the feeling your doing someones homework :)
15:34:53  <MeusH> ssshhhh
15:35:45  <Sacro> lol
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15:42:20  <glx> peter1138: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/newstations.diff <-- it should be better now :)
15:47:02  <peter1138> does it work? ;)
15:47:09  <glx> yes
15:47:16  <peter1138> better than with blocked, or the same?
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15:47:36  <glx> now buffers have wires over them
15:48:14  <glx> but some pylons are missing
15:48:29  <peter1138> hmm
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15:48:51  <peter1138> i guess it needs to be all or nothing
15:48:59  <peter1138> cos you can have the wire without the pylon
15:49:13  <Sacro> peter1138: did you commit the patch for trains to pull up to the buffer?
15:50:11  <peter1138> there was a patch for that?
15:50:18  <peter1138> (that's not possible)
15:51:28  <hylje> unpossible
15:51:28  <hylje> !
15:53:52  <glx> peter1138: screenshots
15:53:52  <glx> http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/Nedborough%20Transport,%2020%20F%E9v%201978.png <-- transparent
15:53:52  <glx> http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/Nedborough%20Transport,%2023%20F%E9v%201978.png <-- normal
15:54:55  * MeusH clicked on the red warning message to close it
15:54:56  <MeusH> silly me
15:55:01  <MeusH> that's not OTTD
15:55:27  <glx> MeusH: I often right click to move the screenshots :)
15:57:06  <hylje> wow, some oil wells produce 300m^3 of oil
15:57:29  <MeusH> great
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16:00:35  <Sacro> peter1138: i thought u coded one?
16:01:57  <peter1138> nope
16:05:46  <MeusH> I were to write 120-180 words about something
16:05:53  <MeusH> I wrote 230 about railways
16:05:55  <Brianetta> Sacro: Once again, trains don't pull up to the buffer
16:06:00  <MeusH> and I think I'm somewhere in the middle
16:07:39  <MeusH> is EuroStar a railway company or railway engine name?
16:07:48  <MeusH> the wiki doesn't state it
16:07:53  <Sacro> MeusH: nice use of english slang :)
16:08:31  <peter1138> if they were meant to pull up to the buffer, the buffer would be nearer the tile edge
16:08:41  <hylje> eurostar is the train going between france and britain
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16:09:03  <hylje> could also be the company operating it
16:09:03  <Sacro> Eurostar (U.K.) Ltd. is the british side company
16:09:16  <Brianetta> peter1138: If one were to load several station sets at once, what might the consequences be?
16:09:28  <Sacro> and then SNCF an SNCB on the other side
16:09:33  <peter1138> you'd have loads of station sets to play with
16:09:35  <glx> peter1138: I think there's an error in StationSpec comments
16:09:46  <peter1138> glx: possibly
16:09:46  <Brianetta> peter1138: Excellent!
16:09:54  <MeusH> so EuroStar is a company managing engines called "EuroStar"?
16:09:59  * Brianetta considers loading them ALL
16:10:03  <Brianetta> muahahaha
16:10:05  <peter1138> Brianetta: as always, they must be loaded in the same order for network games
16:10:11  <Sacro> Brianetta: it has been asked earlier :)
16:10:27  <Brianetta> Sacro: But I'm going to leave out the one set you really want, by mistake
16:10:34  <Sacro> curses
16:10:44  <peter1138> jcindstaw has some issue which i'll fix later tonight
16:10:51  <glx> peter1138: byte wires;   ///< Bitmask of base tiles (0 - 7) which should contain elrail wires <-- but grf doc says "it sets the tile types on which there should be no wires displayed"
16:11:02  <peter1138> heh
16:11:03  <Brianetta> I reckon new, generic and US should do it
16:11:04  <Sacro> Brianetta: i know where newcastle is, i'll track you down
16:11:16  <peter1138> copy & pasto?
16:11:47  <glx> it seems you copy/paste from pylons :)
16:12:08  <peter1138> is it right for pylons?
16:12:13  <glx> yes
16:12:24  <peter1138> ok :)
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16:12:43  <glx> indeed pylons means draw elrail, wires means don't draw :)
16:12:44  <peter1138> i guess the idea is by default there are no pylons (only at the ends) but wires are there
16:12:50  <peter1138> o_O
16:13:00  <peter1138> so ..
16:13:27  <Sacro> anybody thought about having 3rd rail for more realism with certain trainsets?
16:13:58  <glx> wires property should only be used when the wires cause problems with the sprite sorter
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16:16:19  <Brianetta> Sacro: Thought, yes
16:17:35  <Sacro> Brianetta: would be nice with london underground set
16:18:01  <Brianetta> yes
16:18:12  <Sacro> or NSE
16:22:04  <Brianetta> Unfortunately, you're looking at another rail type
16:22:29  <Brianetta> and it's already a big faff to switch types - not like you can just electrify stuff as such, it's a rail replacement
16:24:14  <peter1138> 3rd rail?
16:24:33  <peter1138> wouldn't be that hard
16:24:39  <peter1138> adding a railtype is easy, heh
16:25:03  <Sacro> really? and then doing graphics shouldnt be too hard
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16:27:23  <peter1138> Sacro: want to draw them?
16:28:21  <Born_Acorn> draw moonbeams!
16:28:42  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: i resurrected by newnewbridge stuff
16:28:52  <peter1138> the patch is tiny now that newstations is in...
16:29:23  <Sacro> peter1138: will you merge the,?
16:29:29  <guru3> good things be happening aye?
16:29:31  <peter1138> no
16:29:38  <Born_Acorn> newnewbridge?
16:29:41  <peter1138> it will be changed to work with the new bridge system
16:29:58  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: the system your viaduct stuff was drawn for
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16:30:44  <Born_Acorn> Ah yes.
16:30:48  <Sacro> peter1138: if i did 3rd rail, would it be added?
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16:31:57  <peter1138> either that or it can just be an addon
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16:32:13  <Brianetta> Can anybody provide me with a URL to the newgrf stations seen here?: http://www.pikkarail.com/ttdp/ukrs/industries.htm
16:32:44  <peter1138> http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/index.php?do=list&cid=2
16:33:06  <Brianetta> ta
16:33:32  <Brianetta> peter1138: So, um... which one is it?
16:33:48  <Born_Acorn> US Stations
16:33:53  <Born_Acorn> Then Downloads
16:33:58  <Born_Acorn> Then Industrial Stations.
16:34:06  <Brianetta> A new set of passenger stations for TTD, with a range of styles, sizes and layouts possible over time.
16:34:09  <Sacro> Brianetta: just add the whooooooooole lot
16:34:32  <Born_Acorn> Just click on the US Stations link and go to downloads and get the Industrial Stations set.
16:34:42  <Born_Acorn> Its separate from US stations.
16:34:47  <Born_Acorn> Just well hidden.
16:34:57  <Brianetta> Very well hidden.
16:34:59  <Brianetta> I can't find it
16:35:09  <Brianetta> I'm on as-st.com now
16:35:33  <Brianetta> Ah, got it
16:35:53  <Brianetta> Are the US passenger stations any cop?
16:36:02  <Born_Acorn> Yes. Very cool.
16:36:11  <Born_Acorn> OH NO! PLANE GO BOOM!
16:36:25  <Born_Acorn> Thats one Dinger 1000 down.
16:36:26  <Brianetta> And, er... Michael Blunk's newstations
16:36:30  <Brianetta> that I am running on the server now
16:36:32  <Born_Acorn> Yes, you want them.
16:36:35  <XeryusTC> heh, i just download all the newstations from grf crawler :)
16:36:35  <Brianetta> Does anybody actually like that set?
16:36:49  <Born_Acorn> Lots of people do.
16:36:54  <XeryusTC> Brianetta: what is it named?
16:36:54  <Brianetta> OK, I'm going to throw the lot on.
16:37:02  <Brianetta> XeryusTC: newstatsw
16:37:32  <Brianetta> I think I'm going to have to make a zip archive containg all the graphics on ppcis.org/nightly
16:37:33  <Born_Acorn> crap crap crap.
16:37:38  <Born_Acorn> 14% ratings >:(
16:37:41  <Brianetta> if I can get permissions
16:37:50  <Brianetta> Born_Acorn: Advertise.
16:37:52  <Born_Acorn> I had 1000 passengers there. Now I have 20.
16:38:09  <XeryusTC> Brianetta: that set is quite cool
16:38:28  <peter1138> don't forget ukwaypointsw.grf ;)
16:38:33  <Brianetta> XeryusTC: All I saw on my server last night was boring grey tarmac stations
16:38:45  <Brianetta> peter1138: Aaargh
16:38:53  <Brianetta> You know, I don't even know what the interface is like
16:39:03  <Brianetta> All I have done is spectated
16:39:06  <XeryusTC> Brianetta: people should have added some buildings then
16:40:03  <Born_Acorn> My stations are only boringly tarmac when people make them like that. I have no idea why people build featureless stations.
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16:40:34  <Born_Acorn> I keep getting newstations corruptions.
16:40:37  <peter1138> lazyness?
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16:40:52  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: with?
16:40:59  <Born_Acorn> Newstatsw.grf
16:41:03  <Born_Acorn> They change whenever I move the screen off them
16:41:05  <Sacro> ooh, ulwaypointsw
16:41:05  <Brianetta> Born_Acorn: Same reason they never buy brake vans.
16:41:14  <Born_Acorn> into a jumble of tg1r.grf sprites
16:41:34  <peter1138> o_O
16:41:56  <Born_Acorn> They change back to newstatsw.grf sprites when a train leaves them. (presumably when passenger numbers change the graphics)
16:42:04  <Born_Acorn> Its only with the non-track tiles though.
16:42:06  <peter1138> hmm
16:42:14  <peter1138> ah
16:42:17  <XeryusTC> people just need to learn how to build nice stations with newstations
16:42:36  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: stations with a lot of passengers? heh
16:42:41  <Born_Acorn> Yes.
16:43:26  <Born_Acorn> http://graphics.tt-terminal.co.uk/notwork/yargh.png
16:44:21  <Sacro> Born_Acorn: pretty
16:44:28  <XeryusTC> argh, the double view hurts my eyes
16:44:29  <Brianetta> ew at the double-sized screenie
16:44:49  <hylje> eww
16:44:52  <hylje> its ugly
16:45:01  <Born_Acorn> http://graphics.tt-terminal.co.uk/notwork/yargh2.png
16:45:08  <Born_Acorn> I use CTRL+D most times.
16:45:17  <Born_Acorn> I feel normal is too zoomed out.
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16:46:30  <Born_Acorn> As you can see in yargh2.png, the Local Authority pulled down the 100 year old station in preferation of 40 compacted ski slopes.
16:47:22  <hylje> haha
16:51:36  <Kjetil> hehe
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16:52:57  * Sacro hates our 1960's train station
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16:58:51  <Sacro> so, whats new in tonights nightly?
16:59:32  <Born_Acorn> Fried baby sandwiches - they are not politically correct!
17:01:05  <Sacro> soylent green?
17:01:20  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: i can't replicate that :/
17:01:30  <Born_Acorn> Its happening!
17:01:31  <peter1138> how much cargo is waiting?
17:01:40  <Born_Acorn> 4,095 passengers.
17:01:42  <peter1138> ah
17:01:47  <peter1138> hmm
17:01:48  <Born_Acorn> 500 mail.
17:01:49  <Sacro> -1 :)
17:02:35  <tokai|noir> http://tokai.binaryriot.org/2066.png <- if i have a construct like this the maglev train always stops short before the station (at the 90° turn). is it a feature or a bug? happens with older version of trunk and yapf (no matter if set to mode 3 or not).
17:03:13  <Sionide> oh wow, are there actually more people on the platform if there's loads waiting? that is quality!
17:03:28  <XeryusTC> tokai|noir: you need yapf 2 for 90 degree turns
17:03:33  <glx> peter1138: http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/newstations.diff <-- I fixed the "flying wire" thing :)
17:03:36  <Brianetta> They're taller than their homes, though
17:03:51  <tokai|noir> XeryusTC: yes, i know. but the train still doesnt past the 90° turn :)
17:04:02  <Sionide> heh
17:04:12  <Sionide> if you look at the cinema, people would be like 2 pixels high?
17:04:16  <XeryusTC> tokai|noir: that's weird :P
17:04:31  <tokai|noir> XeryusTC: happens with non yapf branch too (was testing some save games by owen for the fun and he had such constructs in his game).
17:05:35  <orudge> Me? Mmh?
17:05:45  <orudge> If you're looking at saved games from transporttycoon.net, they're old and awful;
17:05:46  <orudge> :p
17:08:19  <Sacro> hmm
17:11:16  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: got it
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17:13:55  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4783 /trunk/newgrf_station.c: - Newstations: fix graphical bug that affected some stations when a station has a high amount of cargo waiting.
17:14:26  <Brianetta> I'd better go home and update my nightly
17:14:59  <peter1138> (off by one o_O)
17:15:42  <Brianetta> later
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17:23:18  <Bjarni> hi people
17:23:25  * Bjarni hides
17:23:39  <peter1138> Bjarni: can you test saving and loading a game with newstations please?
17:24:07  <glx> peter1138: can you review http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/newstations.diff ?
17:25:21  <ernie_hh> is
17:25:27  <Sacro> hiya Bjarni
17:25:29  <Bjarni> you mean you want me to test it for BE stuff?
17:25:41  <peter1138> Bjarni: yes, i made a cock up ;( but it should be fixed now
17:25:58  <peter1138> last nights won't work, current trunk should
17:25:58  <Bjarni> ok
17:26:12  <ernie_hh> is wiki:.WhoWorksOnWhat up to date?
17:26:24  <Bjarni> not at all
17:26:31  <Bjarni> it's not even correct
17:27:42  <ernie_hh> hmmm, okay :.)
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17:31:12  <Bjarni> why do you want to know?
17:33:05  <Bjarni> peter1138:
17:33:05  <Bjarni> settings_gui.c: In function 'NewgrfWndProc':
17:33:06  <Bjarni> settings_gui.c:960: warning: format '%08X' expects type 'unsigned int', but argument 4 has type 'long unsigned int'
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17:39:52  <ernie_hh> bjarni: i think about a little extension in the stockmarket *g*
17:40:19  <Bjarni> err, didn't you notice that it's already way too complex???
17:40:22  <Bjarni> :p
17:40:25  <Sacro> nah
17:41:15  <KUDr> tokai|noir: /Patch Settings/Vehicles/Forbid 90 deg. turns ?
17:42:33  <tokai|noir> KUDr: ah.. that was it indeed.
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17:44:20  <Vornicus> Do not be frightened.  We are powerful, yes; but we could no more harm you than we could squish the helpless Pootworm.  We love the Pootworm.  We are one with the Pootworm.  We are one with you!  Of course you realize that this means you are one with the Pootworm.  Rejoice!  To be one with the Pootworm is to be alive, and why not be alive?  Is that not what living is for?
17:44:21  *** Sarine is now known as Qball
17:45:15  <tokai|noir> Bjarni: u tried current yapf branch on osx?
17:45:35  <Bjarni> not the current, but yes, I tried it
17:45:51  <Bjarni> in fact, I made some commits to it, so it finally worked for me on OSX
17:46:14  <ernie_hh> bjarni: what is complex about buying and selling 25% of a company? or did i miss something?
17:46:22  <Bjarni> yeah
17:46:27  <Bjarni> you missed the joke
17:46:29  <tokai|noir> Bjarni: i encountered a weird issue with bool sizes here on morphos, maybe could influence osx build too. for the c part bool was defined as 1byte unsigned char.. but per default builtin bool of c++ is 4 bytes on powerpc.
17:46:36  <ernie_hh> bjarni: ok, sorry ;)
17:46:43  <KUDr> Bjarni: Tobin has still problems (crash on dynlib)
17:47:00  <ernie_hh> bjarni: i have sometimes the problem to take things (especially me) too serious *g*
17:47:20  <KUDr> tokai|noir: it looks like only gcc 2.xx problem
17:47:38  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4784 /trunk/newgrf_spritegroup.c: - NewGRF: shuffle the mix of signed / unsigned types when dealing with var adjusts. Fixes issues with some station layouts.
17:47:40  <tokai|noir> KUDr: i tested it with g++ 3.3 on osx:) it had 4 byte bools too
17:48:03  <KUDr> really? so then Bjarni must have the same problem
17:48:15  <tokai|noir> theoretically yes.
17:48:24  <Bjarni> hmm
17:48:52  <tokai|noir> Bjarni: it caused jump to dead code as soon yapf jumped in for trains (at junctions)
17:49:05  <Bjarni> i386 makes the true bool to 1, while PPC sets a true bool to 1 in every bit in the var
17:49:13  <KUDr> Bjarni + tokai: guys, you'll need to make C part of OTTD work with sizeof(bool) == 4
17:49:48  <KUDr>  <Bjarni> i386 makes the true bool to 1, while PPC sets a true bool to 1 in every bit in the var <-- C or C++?
17:49:51  <Tron> Bjarni: "true" as in "result of a logical operation" like "1 < 2"?
17:50:15  <KUDr> true must evaluate to 1 in C++
17:50:15  <Bjarni> yeah, I think so
17:50:23  <Tron> definatly not
17:50:27  <Tron> or the compiler is broken
17:50:49  <Tron> in C and C++ the true result of a logical operation shall be 1
17:50:51  <tokai|noir> 0x00000001 is TRUE i guess
17:51:04  <tokai|noir> (for 4byte bools)
17:51:28  <peter1138> or 0xffffffff according to bjarni
17:51:43  <tokai|noir> well.. could be easily tested :)
17:52:48  <Tron> peter1138: the standards for C and C++ are pretty clear about this: 1, nothing else
17:53:07  <KUDr> yes
17:54:21  <ernie_hh> the advantage of standard: everyone could have one *gg*
17:54:39  <LIIT> 1 standard is good, 2 is twice as good ;-)
17:54:56  <tokai|noir> Tron: i said this too KUDr already.. imho best would be not to use "bool" as type at all, to avoid clashes with C++ interna type (which can have different sizes). but use something like BOOL.. or obool (aka openttdbool) or such.
17:55:34  <Tron> i'm not talking about the size of a bool
17:55:36  <KUDr> heh
17:55:51  <Tron> only the value which represents "true" as a result of a logical expression
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17:56:20  <KUDr> Tron: but sizeof(bool) is a big issue in ottd
17:56:22  <tokai|noir> Tron: of coz.. and i thought a step further already:) as your statement was correct. :)
18:01:50  *** Pulec [n=Pulcoj@AYR-TRNOV.core.ttnet.cz] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:02:48  <peter1138> tokai|noir: so we s/bool/BOOL/g all our code? ;p
18:03:11  <KUDr> would not work
18:03:20  <tokai|noir> KUDr: why not?
18:03:32  <KUDr> we need C bool == C++ bool
18:03:38  <tokai|noir> why?
18:03:47  <tokai|noir> KUDr: u will use BOOL in c++ for structs etc too
18:04:03  <tokai|noir> and ignore c++ bool completly
18:04:15  <Sacro> s/true/1, s/false/0
18:04:20  <KUDr> in C++ bool can have only 0 or 1
18:04:38  <KUDr> and compiler rely on it
18:05:15  <tokai|noir> KUDr: u use BOOL (unisgned char) to hold truth values.
18:05:21  <Sacro> cant you just #define true 1 #define false 0
18:05:34  <hylje> #define true false
18:05:35  <KUDr> C++ bool can't be ignored - all stl works with it, all comparison operators produce it, etc
18:06:06  <vrak> does the transfer order work with trains?
18:06:18  *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-167-250.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:06:19  *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-48-88.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd
18:06:21  <tokai|noir> KUDr: yes.. i do not see the problem. its only about structures which get excahneged with c or written to disk etc.
18:06:31  <tokai|noir> exchanged even
18:06:43  *** TrueLight is now known as TL|Away
18:06:57  <KUDr> but can't be BOOL - it is defined in M$ stuff
18:07:08  <tokai|noir> well.. then something else:)
18:08:03  <Sacro> ottdbool
18:08:12  <KUDr> heh
18:08:19  <tokai|noir> i think making c part aware that bool can be 4 bytes is much more difficult/ timeconsuming. but dunno. I'm not into openttd code too much, except the parts which do not build under MorphOS:)
18:09:02  *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729D4.access.telenet.be] has quit ["Whoopsy"]
18:09:04  <Brianetta> The only thinks committed to trunk all day have been peter1138's newstations stuff
18:09:27  <peter1138> (btw, your ukrs standard fives will be black again ;))
18:09:40  <KUDr> <tokai|noir> i think making c part aware that bool can be 4 bytes is much more difficult <-- yes, but it is real solution, not workaround
18:09:45  *** RoySmeding_ [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd
18:09:46  <Brianetta> What happened to the standard 5s?
18:10:01  <peter1138> it was a bug that made them the right colour
18:10:08  <Brianetta> rail_gui.c: In function `StationBuildWndProc':
18:10:08  <Brianetta> rail_gui.c:692: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned
18:10:16  <peter1138> bah
18:10:16  *** RoySmeding_ [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Client Quit]
18:10:17  <Brianetta> They should be black?
18:10:29  <peter1138> they should be black with freight and coloured for passengers
18:10:31  <tokai|noir> KUDr: dunno. it could also be a frequent source of new bugs if ppl do not take care when handling with bools.
18:10:37  <Brianetta> aha
18:10:43  <peter1138> i need to implement the variable it uses to determine that
18:10:49  <Brianetta> What if you have a mixed rake?
18:11:01  <peter1138> it picks the most common
18:11:10  <Brianetta> Will the livery change is you change the consist?
18:11:12  <Sacro> and if they equal?
18:11:17  <peter1138> probably
18:11:25  <peter1138> i don't know
18:11:27  <KUDr> tokai|noir: there were few BE issues in save/load and Bjarni solved them, why not this one?
18:11:28  <Brianetta> (:
18:11:55  <Sacro> Brianetta: any new newgrfs tonight?
18:12:03  <KUDr> tokai|noir: there are many places where devs must care about BE, so nothing new
18:12:05  <Brianetta> no, same game
18:12:09  *** DJ_Mirage [n=martijn@biggetje.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
18:12:27  <peter1138> i think they want as many stations as possible :)
18:12:29  <Bjarni> <KUDr>	tokai|noir: there were few BE issues in save/load and Bjarni solved them, why not this one? <-- I fixed OSX lib problems, not BE/LE stuff
18:12:34  <tokai|noir> KUDr: but this is not a real BE problem :)
18:12:47  <Bjarni> I didn't really notice any though
18:12:49  <Brianetta> peter1138: Will it harm the save gfame to have more?
18:12:58  <peter1138> no
18:13:00  <Sacro> Brianetta: add loooooooooooooooooooooooooads
18:13:03  <Bjarni> but I didn't search for them either
18:13:09  <Brianetta> In which case, I'll round some grfs up
18:13:12  <Brianetta> and we'll add them later
18:13:13  <KUDr> Bjarni: in the trunk you fixed many BE/LE issues, or not?
18:13:43  <Bjarni> I fixed a lot of OS specific stuff and none of them had anything to do with endianess
18:13:53  <tokai|noir> KUDr: anyway.. currently used 1 byte bool has no endian problem ;)
18:13:56  <KUDr> so who did?
18:14:07  *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729D4.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd
18:14:09  <Sacro> surely bool only needs to be 1 bit?
18:14:23  <peter1138> sure
18:14:27  <Bjarni> Sacro: try to get a modern CPU to access just one bit ;)
18:14:32  <peter1138> when you have a computer that can address one bit...
18:14:37  <KUDr> Sacro: how would you address this bit?
18:14:37  <Vornicus> It only needs to be one bit, but many systems will pad the hell out of it.
18:14:41  <peter1138> mmm, 1 bit computing
18:14:52  <Vornicus> To whole bytes, to four bytes, and if you're in /hell/, 8 bytes.
18:15:34  <Bjarni> 8 bytes don't mean hell, it means you got a whole lot of RAM, so you need to access huge blocks of it. That's not hell
18:15:55  <Bjarni> hell is when you access 8 bytes at once on a 1 MB computer
18:16:05  <Sacro> 1 btye - use scroll lock - i never d
18:16:39  <Vornicus> (though, really, if you have a lot of bools in a particular structure, I think that some compilers will go through a little gyration to put them all in the same word.)
18:16:40  <Bjarni> KUDr: are you sure that anybody fixed endian issues in YAPF?
18:17:05  <KUDr> not in YAPF
18:17:08  <KUDr> in trunk
18:17:12  <Bjarni> oh
18:17:14  <Bjarni> hmm
18:17:16  <peter1138> more likely to be incorrect var size issues.
18:17:39  <peter1138> they show up problems on BE machines that don't surface for LE machine
18:17:45  <Bjarni> I did look into endian stuff in the trunk more than once, but I think the last time was a long while ago
18:17:47  <peter1138> but it's not technically a LE/BE bug
18:17:58  <KUDr>  <peter1138> more likely to be incorrect var size issues.: typedef unsigned int bool; works on intel but not on PPC
18:18:24  <Bjarni> it should be "unsigned char bool"
18:18:50  <KUDr> Bjarni: needs to be unsigned int on morphos
18:18:59  <Bjarni> ...
18:19:02  <Bjarni> why?
18:19:17  <KUDr> coz in C++ sizeof(bool) == 4
18:19:54  <KUDr> and if i access global variables containing bool from C++ code -> failure
18:20:07  <Bjarni> I noticed this problem in Darkvater's load/save code once (it was fixed two days or so after it was committed)
18:20:35  <KUDr> Bjarni: but it is still there for bool
18:20:49  <KUDr> coz it never was more than 1 byte
18:20:50  <Bjarni> writing a number and then discard some of the bytes will discard different bytes on BE/LE unless you are careful
18:21:07  <KUDr> yes i know :)
18:21:14  <Bjarni> so writing 1 in an int and then only reading one byte, it will produce different results
18:21:29  <KUDr> but save/load still has some issue with it
18:21:42  <KUDr> but i don't have PPC so can't repro it
18:21:55  * Sacro is listening to 583. Madness - Michael Caine
18:22:00  <Sacro> whoops :S
18:22:20  <Bjarni> that's right
18:22:22  <Bjarni> madness
18:22:47  <Bjarni> KUDr: where do the problem appear?
18:23:00  <KUDr> on morphos
18:23:10  <Bjarni> I meant during what action
18:23:13  <Bjarni> saving?
18:23:13  <KUDr> when you set bool == unsigned int
18:23:16  <Bjarni> loading?
18:23:18  <Bjarni> both?
18:23:23  <Bjarni> something else?
18:23:28  <KUDr> dunno - crash - probably loading
18:23:38  <KUDr> tokai knows
18:23:45  <KUDr> it is his morphos
18:24:23  <peter1138> yeah, no-one else uses it :)
18:24:37  <KUDr> of course
18:24:37  <Bjarni> that's not right
18:24:46  <Bjarni> it's a big hit in the MOS community
18:24:52  <Bjarni> it's downloaded 150 times or so
18:24:55  <Bjarni> :p
18:25:24  <Bjarni> AFAIK it's the only game on that platform, that's worth playing
18:25:39  <Sacro> are there any others?
18:25:39  <KUDr> hmm
18:26:04  <Bjarni> I guess that there are other games, but I'm not sure if they are worth the time spent on them
18:26:12  <Darkvater> pong?
18:26:21  <LIIT> mmmmmmmmm, pong.....
18:26:34  <Prof_Frink> |.
18:26:41  <LIIT>     . |
18:26:47  <LIIT> gah, my nick is too short
18:26:49  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I didn't call you, but I referred to your (now committed) patch
18:26:51  <Prof_Frink> |.
18:26:58  *** LIIT is now known as LIIT__pong
18:27:01  <Bjarni>         |   .
18:27:04  <Bjarni> over
18:27:06  <Bjarni> :p
18:27:16  <LIIT__pong> this is prettyer :-)
18:27:22  <LIIT__pong> oki, rdy Prof
18:27:31  <Prof_Frink> |.
18:27:31  <LIIT__pong>         . |
18:27:38  <Prof_Frink> | .
18:27:41  <Bjarni> the next guy to pong this channel will be kicked
18:27:43  <LIIT__pong>       .    |
18:27:50  <LIIT__pong> whoups
18:27:58  <Bjarni> >_<
18:28:10  <Sacro> Bjarni: ping
18:28:16  <Bjarni> !insult LIIT__pong
18:28:18  *** LIIT__pong is now known as LIIT
18:28:19  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Bjarni tells LIIT__pong: Shush, unless you want me to rip you apart like a fillet steak thrown into a pit of rabid starving dogs.
18:28:26  <Prof_Frink> Multiball!
18:28:30  <Prof_Frink> |?
18:28:55  *** Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [you can't hide behind your laggy connection. You got to have read what I wrote]
18:28:59  <Sacro> hmm, pipe, a with a caret, square, and trademark
18:29:01  <LIIT> mmmm, it said 'steak'....
18:29:10  *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd
18:29:12  <Sacro> did it?
18:29:34  <LIIT> Sacro: no, jmp_ghli said 'steak'... mmmmm, steak...
18:29:40  <Prof_Frink> Oi. Pong never had multiball capability.
18:29:56  <LIIT> Let's do Space-invaders :-)
18:30:13  <Bjarni> we can code a multi ball open source pong
18:30:24  * Prof_Frink invades LIIT's space
18:30:27  <Bjarni> with TCP/IP multiplayer ability
18:30:30  <tokai|noir> Bjarni: we have quite a few good games... not talking about perfectly working emulators for all kind of systems:)
18:30:31  <Sacro> Bjarni: Tong
18:30:42  *** Mucht|zZz [n=Mucht@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit ["I'll be back!"]
18:30:53  <Sacro> hehe, tetris and pong combined, amazing idea
18:30:54  <LIIT> hmmm, I'm getting a lot of comments on other channels, because I changed nick :-)
18:30:55  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: rong.
18:31:17  <Bjarni> the next child to behave like a child will be kicked
18:31:20  <Prof_Frink> radial pong.
18:31:46  <LIIT> Bjarni: are we there yet ? I need to go pee... Can I have an icecream ? Are we there yet ?
18:31:58  * LIIT ducks and covers
18:32:00  * valhallasw steals the ice cream
18:32:01  <Bjarni> lol
18:32:22  <Bjarni> I didn't mean childish in that way
18:32:24  <Bjarni> :D
18:32:27  * LIIT runs after valhallasw screaming and kicking (making it hard to run)
18:32:31  <LIIT> :-)
18:33:02  * Bjarni catches valhallasw and spank him, so he will learn that stealing is wrong
18:33:09  <Bjarni> he will thank me when he grows up
18:33:22  <LIIT> In EQ2, I was wellknown of being on auto-follow and asking "are we there yet" every 3rd second or so
18:34:11  <LIIT> Then I found oTTD, haven't played any other game since :-) Well except for IRC-pong... And multiplayer-notepad
18:34:22  <Prof_Frink> bah
18:34:26  <Prof_Frink> multiplayer-vim!
18:34:30  <LIIT> gah, sorry
18:34:30  <Sacro> que?
18:34:31  <MeusH> :P
18:34:44  * LIIT likes vim
18:34:52  <LIIT> IRC == multiplayer vim
18:35:01  <Qball> :close Bjarni
18:35:08  <Sacro> :!wq
18:35:48  <LIIT> :Q! << most used command - keep forgetting to hit 'i' before pasting stuff
18:37:08  * LIIT is really good at messing up stuff in vim
18:37:26  *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:38:41  <LIIT> .... are we there yet ?
18:39:34  <Bjarni> no, I just need to do one more thing
18:39:38  <MeusH> bbl
18:39:38  *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-140-207.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"]
18:39:42  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away]
18:39:45  *** LIIT was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [NOW you are in hell]
18:39:45  *** LIIT [n=kasper@0x50a11194.bynxx11.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
18:39:59  <Bjarni> err
18:40:01  <LIIT> ouch, you kicked me :'-(
18:40:10  <Bjarni> auto reconnect?
18:40:14  <LIIT> aye
18:40:16  <Prof_Frink> How evil.
18:40:51  <LIIT> Was in a chan earlier where all us ops kept kicking eachother when we where bored...
18:41:00  <LIIT> had auto-reconnect on since
18:41:46  <Bjarni> somebody made statistics on this channel and then it declared me unliked because I got kicked so much and mean because I kick so many
18:41:58  <Bjarni> ever since that time I stopped logging out by kicking myself
18:42:02  <Brianetta> http://ppcis.org/nightly/
18:42:07  <Brianetta> Total Bill and Ted password
18:42:26  <LIIT> lol
18:43:14  <Brianetta> I hope nobody minds me hosting a zip full of grfs, but it makes them easier to find and also makes sure that the versions are the same
18:45:53  <Prof_Frink> openTTD needs apt-grf
18:46:10  <Qball> yes :D
18:51:02  <peter1138> heh
18:51:10  <peter1138> problem with that
18:51:19  <peter1138> is you need a repository to store them
18:51:22  <Brianetta> peter1138: We have multiplayer problems with newstation
18:51:31  <peter1138> oh?
18:51:33  <Brianetta> Yes
18:51:34  *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80E66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
18:51:48  <Brianetta> Sacro changed a load of his stations from boring platforms to pretty ones
18:51:50  <Brianetta> then desynced
18:51:56  <Brianetta> and his stations are unchanged
18:52:12  *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B80E66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
18:52:12  <Brianetta> Tash just desynced too
18:52:24  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: get eis_os to add an XML or something to grfcrawler
18:53:33  <hylje> add more XML !
18:53:36  <hylje> and javascript !
18:53:43  <peter1138> Prof_Frink: the download links link to webpages, so...
18:54:04  <Prof_Frink> ...that would have to change
18:54:22  <Prof_Frink> although forum uploads might cause problemage
18:54:30  <Prof_Frink> with the random numbers and all
19:04:00  <peter1138> btw
19:04:06  <peter1138> those names with the black colour codes in them...
19:04:14  <peter1138> it also fucks up display in ttdp
19:04:27  <peter1138> (except there it is black text on a black background
19:04:28  <peter1138> )
19:05:52  <Sacro> bounce
19:06:48  *** BJH_ [n=chatzill@e176111105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
19:08:46  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! Newstations!
19:09:08  <Born_Acorn> (as in the fix to my little problem)
19:09:11  <Born_Acorn> yay!
19:11:24  *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd
19:11:54  <Born_Acorn> Somebody should check out that "Fund a bank" option in the Local Authority window.
19:11:57  <Born_Acorn> I need a bank!
19:12:36  <Born_Acorn> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24952
19:14:36  <peter1138> hmm
19:15:05  <MeusH[away]> this is a nice patch
19:15:13  <MeusH[away]> ah, I'm away
19:15:57  <Sacro> i thought you'd notice that kinda thing
19:16:28  <peter1138> bha, dinner
19:17:30  * Sacro misses Brianetta's nightly
19:17:48  <Brianetta> OK
19:17:50  <Brianetta> It's back
19:17:57  <Brianetta> With a new grf
19:18:02  <Sacro> do i need any new newgrfs?
19:18:05  <Sacro> you updated your pack?
19:18:09  <Brianetta> so make sure you have usstats
19:20:48  <Brianetta> Arse
19:20:50  <Brianetta> Desynced
19:20:58  <Brianetta> *** Brianetta has left the game (desync error)
19:20:58  <Brianetta> *** Tash has left the game (desync error)
19:21:03  <Sacro> im here fine
19:21:07  <Sacro> and im using usstats
19:21:42  <Brianetta> lol
19:21:44  <Brianetta> I'm not
19:22:06  <glx> ok if someone want to play with my company feel free
19:24:09  *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176097062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:25:26  <vondel> hmmm, i think i've found a bug in r4784
19:25:44  <vondel> game crashes with an assertion when i clone a train beyond the train-limit
19:26:54  * vondel goes search bugreport form
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19:40:20  *** MeusH[away] is now known as MeusH
19:40:24  *** MeusH is now known as MeusH[away]
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19:42:06  <peter1138> hmm
19:42:58  <glx> ok I think boats + NPF are not good for my computer
19:43:14  <peter1138> nope :)
19:43:16  <peter1138> hmm, so
19:43:28  <vondel> how large save-file is decent for including in bugreport?
19:43:46  <peter1138> why doesn't xterm/uxterm appear as an alternatives in ubuntu...
19:52:14  <glx> peter1138: so, what do you think of my "don't draw catenary over non-track tiles" fix?
19:52:29  <peter1138> fix?
19:52:36  <peter1138> it's not a fix, it's further implementation ;p
19:52:57  <glx> but it's like a bug now :)
19:53:08  <glx> so for me it's a fix :)
19:55:10  <peter1138> i'm still hunting the layout bug
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19:55:37  <glx> what bug is this?
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20:06:28  <peter1138> coal unloader
20:06:30  <peter1138> 4 tiles long
20:06:51  <peter1138> at least 3 platforms
20:09:19  <Sacro> can someone create a "hide the trees" patch?
20:09:45  <peter1138> poor trees
20:12:03  <Sacro> i dont like seeing them
20:12:07  <Sacro> but i do like seeing stations
20:12:11  <ernie_hh> my trees are hidden ;P
20:13:07  *** squ [i=squ@80.70.17.98] has quit []
20:14:48  <peter1138> Sacro: make a grf that replaces the tree sprites with nothing
20:15:18  <Prof_Frink> or better, replace all the old trees with the saplings
20:15:33  <Prof_Frink> so they're visible but not annoying
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20:23:37  <Sacro> peter1138: not sure how to
20:24:26  <MeusH[away]> kindly ask someone on the forum maybye?
20:24:31  <MeusH[away]> ohh, I'm away
20:24:50  <hylje> o rly
20:24:56  <peter1138> lies
20:24:58  <MeusH[away]> orly!
20:25:14  *** MeusH[away] is now known as MeusH[o
20:25:20  <hylje> o'rly bus
20:25:27  <Prof_Frink> no
20:25:32  <Prof_Frink> orly airport
20:25:37  *** MeusH[o is now known as MeusH[o_rly_yeah
20:25:45  <hylje> http://orlyowl.com/orlybus.jpg
20:25:49  *** MeusH[o_rly_yeah is now known as MeusH[away]
20:26:57  <hylje> anyway
20:27:18  <hylje> is there an orly /yarly in the town name generators
20:28:19  *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B36711.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
20:28:51  <hylje> if not, how easy is it to include such names
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20:37:34  <black_Nightmare> hm...brianetta you there?
20:37:55  <Brianetta> No, I'm not here.  I'm somewhere else.
20:37:59  <Brianetta> Um
20:38:02  <Brianetta> like
20:38:03  <Brianetta> um
20:38:07  <Brianetta> I'm dead?
20:38:23  <Prof_Frink> Brianetta is a zombie process!
20:38:28  <Brianetta> nooo
20:38:34  <Brianetta> ...brains...
20:38:51  <Prof_Frink> an openttd zombie.
20:38:52  <black_Nightmare> :))
20:38:56  <Prof_Frink> traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaains...
20:39:02  * Brianetta wheezes and shambles toward Prof_Frink, eyes unfocused
20:39:09  <Celestar> news?
20:39:20  *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B80E66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
20:39:38  <Brianetta> Celestar: Choo choo train stations are pretty
20:39:41  <black_Nightmare> brianetta...just wondering anyhow but is the station option reverted or its still at end-of-line-only?
20:39:53  <Brianetta> End of line only
20:39:56  <Brianetta> The only sane choice
20:40:02  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: use waypoints and buffer stops
20:40:08  <Brianetta> Who heard of a steam train turning around onthe spot?
20:40:09  *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
20:40:10  <black_Nightmare> hm guess I'll just quit for good then
20:40:23  <Sacro> noooooooooooooooooo dont
20:40:31  <Brianetta> That sort of blackmail attempt won't change my mind, unfortunately
20:40:38  <black_Nightmare> sacro....I don't want to have to remember two different way to do constructions so
20:40:49  <Brianetta> I have eight companies onthe nightly, it's crowded enough not to miss one
20:40:54  <Ihmemies> http://www.kotiposti.net/ihmemies/roina/what_is_this.png
20:40:58  <Ihmemies> what is the purpose of those?
20:42:11  <Brianetta> http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Guides:Priorities
20:42:15  <Brianetta> Ihmemies: Read that page
20:42:34  <Celestar> g2g
20:42:36  <Celestar> cu tomorrow
20:43:13  <black_Nightmare> where does buffer stop goes for the sake of run-through trains tho?  (and I'll rather like that the answer is -not- to just keep adding more platforms for the same low number of trains heh)
20:43:51  <black_Nightmare> kinda nice to see that openttd had finally taken on supporting newstations tho
20:44:18  <LIIT> anyone ever thought of doing a patch, not allowing trains to reverse ever (except depots) - like real life ?
20:44:35  <black_Nightmare> liit...you'll have to support crossover tracks -inside- station platforms then
20:44:38  <black_Nightmare> etc :p
20:44:39  <Sacro> i have
20:45:05  <LIIT> black_Nightmare: roro-staions
20:45:17  <LIIT> I always use those, my trains don't reverse on the stations :-)
20:45:34  <black_Nightmare> liit..and what about adding to a already-large city?  roro = destory more buildings
20:46:08  <LIIT> black_Nightmare: aye, makes it more difficult - unless you use a 'hack'-solution, like a depot after the station
20:46:17  <Brianetta> Terminus stations allow trains to reverse out
20:46:41  <black_Nightmare> yeah and other stations crossed the engine over to another (empty usually) platform track to reattach to other end of train
20:46:45  <Brianetta> You can always have a station with a couple of bay platforms and a through platform
20:46:49  <LIIT> I just think it would be a cool option :-) And maybe forcing ppl to transfer ppl with busses when wanting to add to large cities
20:46:51  <black_Nightmare> (uk did that kind of layout a lot)
20:47:22  <Sacro> be nice to support that
20:47:31  <Brianetta> The devs are interested in allowing no train to reverse unless it's dual-headed, either with an extra loco or a DVT
20:47:36  <Brianetta> but it's a long way off
20:47:46  <Sacro> maybe new map array, and having wagon rakes and engines seperate
20:48:01  <LIIT> Brianetta: hmm, it would make dualheads even more cool - didn't even think about that
20:48:14  <LIIT> oh well, yet another thing to dream of seeing in 0.6.0 ;-)
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20:50:41  * XeryusTC request longer lines for the ingame chat
20:50:55  * LIIT requests it aswell
20:51:20  <Brianetta> Chat output should be moved to a movable, resizable window
20:51:32  <Sacro> yup
20:51:34  <black_Nightmare> well here's a fact interesting: many usa stations were of three mixed types of trains in one place... some train just stop then went through..other stopped and turn around .. then a few were sometimes broken up or reshuffled
20:51:39  <Brianetta> with a black background, you can even read what brown has to say (:
20:51:52  <Sacro> nope
20:51:52  <black_Nightmare> thats what I...sometimes minick (thru & turn around in same station)
20:51:59  <Sacro> and green/blue isnt useful sometimes
20:52:12  <Brianetta> black_Nightmare: You can do that - you just need a bay platform
20:52:50  <Brianetta> glx: I did up your stations
20:53:18  <glx> Brianetta: you can do what you want with them :)
20:53:27  <Brianetta> glx: You should go look (:
20:53:30  <Brianetta> They're pretty
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20:56:04  <glx> Brianetta: I saw 2 of them :) really nice
20:56:46  <Brianetta> (:
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21:28:37  <black_Nightmare> sacro if you can look closely you'll notice one through&deadend platform in use somewhere in the screenshot ;-) http://web.ncf.ca/fg438/screenshot1.png
21:29:02  <black_Nightmare> odd timing..all trains are outside the screenshot but then whatever ^_^
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21:34:28  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: interesting grf setup
21:34:59  <black_Nightmare> heh ty
21:35:06  <black_Nightmare> the only thing still left from original graphics are...
21:36:13  <black_Nightmare> 1. terrian 2. bloody lighthouses (because they get in way sometimes lol)  3. HQ  4. some industries (pikka reused original graphics in some of the indstry set grf)
21:36:42  <black_Nightmare> otherwise I'm nearby the point of something like "all legal"
21:36:45  <black_Nightmare> ^_^
21:42:29  <Sacro> lol
21:43:51  <SpComb> RAWR STEAK
21:44:14  <Prof_Frink> nah
21:44:18  <Prof_Frink> medium rare thanks
21:44:24  <Prof_Frink> wi' chips
21:44:25  <SpComb> RAWR!
21:44:33  <Prof_Frink> MEDIUM RARE!
21:44:41  <SpComb> O RLY?
21:44:46  * SpComb hands Prof_Frink some fried kalamari
21:44:50  <Prof_Frink> YA MUM.
21:45:15  <Prof_Frink> It's a trap!
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21:47:13  <Bjarni> vondel: now that's one nasty bug you found :(
21:51:06  <Bjarni> too bad I don't have time to figure out how to fix it at the moment
21:51:09  <peter1138> too many trains?
21:59:07  <peter1138> erk
21:59:09  <peter1138> sleepy time
21:59:43  <CIA-3> glx * r4785 /trunk/ (elrail.c newgrf_station.c newgrf_station.h station_cmd.c): - Newstations: don't draw catenary on non-track tiles
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22:08:36  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! trams!
22:08:52  <Prof_Frink> pffffffffft
22:10:26  *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit []
22:10:37  <Born_Acorn> Ask 10+ times like that for two years and you will recieve.
22:10:48  <Born_Acorn> I did with newstations!
22:10:55  <Qball> yep
22:10:58  <MeusH[away]> goodnight
22:11:00  <MeusH[away]> cya
22:11:00  <Qball> I asked alot tooo
22:11:01  *** MeusH[away] [n=MeusH@host-ip18-138.crowley.pl] has quit ["Goodbye"]
22:11:17  <Qball> all for a good cause..
22:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause> bad... brianetta not around anymore :(
22:12:37  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: how come?
22:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i need removal of town owned roads on his server
22:13:08  <Sacro> ah, right
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22:26:54  <vondel> Bjarni: i'm glad i could narrow it down enough in the description that you know what's wrong :)
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22:29:30  <vondel> Bjarni: you could "sort of fix it" by adding (engines-1) to limit before cloning, and aubtracting that same amount afterwards
22:29:46  <black_Nightmare> eddi....heh nice to see I'm not the only one taken back by suddenly change of several settings
22:30:16  <[1]Sacro> hmm
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22:34:03  <Bjarni> <vondel>	Bjarni: you could "sort of fix it" by adding (engines-1) to limit before cloning, and aubtracting that same amount afterwards <-- or increasing the limit by one when cloning or a 3rd thing
22:34:58  <Bjarni> the issue is that I never really looked into this since it calls the build command to take care of everything regarding the single unit. The problem is that it should forget to check for max number of trains when it's a multiple engine train
22:35:26  <vondel> increase limit by one, doesn't that give problems when there are 3 engines in the train ?
22:35:40  <Bjarni> no
22:36:00  <Bjarni> you build the front engine, then you build the next one (now you have 2 trains)
22:36:14  <Bjarni> then you add the newest to the first and you got only one train
22:36:15  <vondel> aha, they're merged before 3rd one is create
22:36:21  <vondel> +d
22:36:26  <Bjarni> then you build the 3rd engine and you got 2 trains again
22:36:35  <Bjarni> repeat that for each engine
22:37:17  <vondel> than you have to decide what is the least dirty: extending the build-function, or modifying a global var
22:37:39  <Bjarni> or a 3rd solution
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22:37:47  <glx> Bjarni: can you close bug 157 ?
22:38:23  <Bjarni> sure
22:38:50  <Bjarni> done
22:39:08  <Bjarni> nice clash of patches though
22:39:16  <glx> thanx
22:40:26  <Bjarni> hmm
22:40:54  <Bjarni> 		if (unit_num > _patches.max_trains)
22:40:54  <Bjarni> 			return_cmd_error(STR_00E1_TOO_MANY_VEHICLES_IN_GAME);
22:41:00  <Bjarni> that is the problem
22:41:16  <Bjarni> from CmdBuildRailVehicle()
22:41:59  <Bjarni> it prevents you from building too many, but in this case, we should not worry about that
22:42:51  <Bjarni> I think I have a solution for this, but I don't have time to code it now
22:42:59  <Bjarni> I mean, I got to show up at uni tomorrow
22:43:26  <vondel> i've take a day off tomorrow, but still need to get into bed on a decent time
22:44:01  * Bjarni wonders what the professor would say to not getting a report due to "taking a day off"
22:44:07  <Bjarni> somehow I don't think that would work
22:44:21  <vondel> my prof wouldnt like that
22:44:38  <Bjarni> specially since it counts part of the final grade
22:44:46  <Bjarni> so it's mandatory
22:44:48  <vondel> but paper got submitted friday :)
22:45:02  * vondel is phd nowadays
22:45:06  <vondel> phd-student
22:45:28  <Bjarni> I was about to say congratulations, but that could be a bit prematurely
22:45:41  <Bjarni> but you did do a whole lot of stuff just to get that far :)
22:45:54  <vondel> i still have to do 3.5years to get that phd-degree
22:45:57  <Bjarni> so what research are you doing?
22:46:07  <vondel> miniaturized gravity gradiometer
22:46:22  <[1]Sacro> buh?
22:46:24  <vondel> to measure gravity field of mars/moon/etc from a satellite
22:46:30  <Bjarni> you mean a mini device to measure gravity?
22:46:34  <vondel> yes
22:46:36  <Bjarni> ahh
22:46:42  <Bjarni> like that... from satelites
22:46:44  <Bjarni> nice
22:46:51  <vondel> 1kg, shoebox format, 1Watt max
22:47:04  <vondel> almost impossible
22:47:05  <Bjarni> how about asteroids?
22:47:31  <vondel> possible if they have some grav field
22:47:50  <Bjarni> <vondel>	almost impossible <-- not to mention that you have to take care of heat as well since vacuum don't cool that well
22:47:50  <Prof_Frink> vondel: does the inside or outside have to be shoebox-sized?
22:48:02  <vondel> outside of my device
22:48:11  <Prof_Frink> aah, easy then
22:48:13  <vondel> Bjarni: radiation to space
22:48:18  <Bjarni> I know
22:48:28  <Bjarni> but you have to consider it
22:48:29  <Prof_Frink> plenty of space on the inside then
22:48:33  <vondel> it cannot warm more than 1W anyways
22:49:01  <vondel> efficient radiators seem to make it possible to get down to 40K
22:49:05  <Bjarni> 1W can build up a whole lot of heat if it only let say 10% of the energy escape
22:49:15  <vondel> i forgot for which cooling-power
22:49:54  <vondel> i'm currently doing simulations for a device at 77K (liquid nitrogen temp)
22:50:10  <Bjarni> or in other words, if you need a certain temperate to cool 1W, that temperature should not be 500K+
22:50:44  <vondel> iirc, space is around 2K
22:50:53  <Bjarni> I guess you have to make it radiation resistant as well
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22:51:17  <vondel> but i'm at uni at the start of a project, radiation-hardening is of a later stage
22:51:34  <Bjarni> yeah
22:51:36  <vondel> i'm mainly interested in the mechanical part
22:51:49  <vondel> the mechanical part doesnt suffer that much of radiation
22:51:57  <Bjarni> first you need to design something you can scrap because it got no radiation protection :p
22:52:05  <vondel> the ASIC's needed for the electronics need to be good
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22:52:30  <vondel> a space-company here want to develop those ASIC
22:52:46  <vondel> currently i'm having other probs
22:53:02  <vondel> it's basicly a mass-spring-system
22:53:17  <Bjarni> some guy asked me for help last week. It turned out that he was working on designing a satelite and the computer went crazy
22:53:18  <vondel> the mass is too large for the spring to support earth gravity on the ground...
22:53:24  <Bjarni> the IDE lost the debugger stuff
22:53:37  <Bjarni> that makes it rather hard to test your software
22:54:02  <vondel> i'm still not that strong in using a debugger
22:54:32  <Bjarni> well, first step is to code the chip, then click run in the debugger to see what happens
22:54:38  <vondel> programming mainly in python/php, and using echo-statements to output critical vars, while there are more sensible tools
22:54:53  <Bjarni> if the debugger window is gone (I mean totally gone), the run button is gone as well
22:55:14  *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["good night"]
22:55:15  <Bjarni> seriously, the window was blank and generated a pop-up error o_O
22:55:21  <vondel> hmmmmmm
22:56:01  <Bjarni> <vondel>	the mass is too large for the spring to support earth gravity on the ground... <-- now that could be a problem. Also it would be nice if it could survive a liftoff. They tend to give a certain (high) G
22:56:22  <vondel> during manufacturing it needs to totally support the mass
22:56:37  <vondel> after a certain step in the production, extra support can be introduced
22:56:59  <vondel> talking about MEMS: Micro ElectroMechanical Structures
22:57:05  <vondel> in silicon
22:57:05  <Bjarni> hehe, image this: I got this device. It works in space and it works on the ground, but the trip into orbit will kill it
22:57:07  <Bjarni> kind of useless then :p
22:57:29  <vondel> atm for me: i got this device, doesnt survive production :(
22:57:44  <vondel> havent tried to produce one yet
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22:58:01  <vondel> i've only done simulations to see what happens --> disaster
22:58:03  <FauxFaux> Notte that window!
22:58:17  <Bjarni> oh that reminds me
22:58:33  <Bjarni> a professor once told a story about paper work and real life events
22:59:57  <Bjarni> he should make a circuit (for ground based operation, not space) and needed a capacitor of a certain value. Since it was rather big, he searched for ages to find one and when he did, he ordered it for a fortune (you can buy 2-3 computers for that price today) and when he got it, he got a surprise
23:00:12  <Bjarni> it was bigger than the box the whole circuit should be in
23:00:39  <Bjarni> then the capacitor went on display to remind other people to look for size before ordering
23:00:46  <Bjarni> nobody ever found anything it could be used for
23:00:53  * vondel still has a cap of a electron microscope, somewhere
23:01:30  <vondel> 3700uF, not that much, but capable of 25A, iirc
23:01:53  <Bjarni> this rather large box was BIG. I think they used wheels when they delivered it, not just some normal capacitor package, but stuff so they didn't need to lift it
23:02:06  <vondel> :)
23:02:29  <vondel> nice for making good welding arcs :)
23:03:26  <Bjarni> <vondel>	3700uF, not that much, but capable of 25A, iirc <-- ohh, reminds me of the high voltage ones. Safety rules says you have to short circuit them at all time or they can build up voltage though static electricity and in a few days it can become high enough to kill
23:03:58  <Bjarni> they are pretty big when they are used in the high voltage part of the power supply net
23:04:48  <vondel> hmmm, hadnt heard about static electricity
23:05:25  <vondel> they sure are of good quality that electrostatic buildup is faster than leakage-current
23:05:59  *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit ["Leaving."]
23:06:48  <Bjarni> static electricity is evil
23:06:51  <Bjarni> really evil
23:07:02  <Bjarni> it can reach high voltage way too fast
23:07:47  *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit []
23:07:50  <vondel> it won't be my friend in space either
23:08:04  <vondel> part of my readout will be electrostatic
23:09:45  <Bjarni> I better get some sleep
23:09:50  <Bjarni> goodnight
23:10:44  <valhallasw> nn
23:10:50  <Sacro> night people
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23:11:34  <vondel> nite
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23:41:05  <Darkvater> jezus fuckin christ, this java crap is never gonna end :(