Log for #openttd on 15th May 2006:
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00:01:14  <Born_Acorn> Poor munchkinguy.
00:01:21  <Born_Acorn> Someone should have told him about
00:02:20  <Sacro> nn all, Born_Acorn. keep bugging peter1138 :)
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00:03:54  <Markavian`> hey, I got a question about the Mini-IN patch
00:04:18  <Markavian`> basically whats the a .patch file and what do I do with it? (e.g. mini_in_r4593_383.patch)
00:04:42  <glx> do you know how to compile OTTD?
00:04:59  <Markavian`> nope
00:05:37  <Markavian`> if a .patch file is to do with compililng, I guess that means I'll have to stick with the builds that are released on the forum
00:05:47  <glx> yes
00:06:14  <glx> a .patch should be applied to ottd source, then you need to compile
00:06:31  <Markavian`> ok, I'm not set up for that, so I won't ask
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00:07:03  <Markavian`> btw, I really like the new terrain gen
00:07:08  <Markavian`> so thx for whoever got that working
00:07:34  <glx> I think richk67 will put new releases next week (when he will back)
00:07:54  <glx> but I'm not sure
00:07:57  <Markavian`> ok
00:08:21  <Markavian`> another Q, do any of the OpenTTD patches let you adjust the 'spread rate' of cities
00:08:47  <glx> don't know
00:09:14  <Markavian`> I remember settings for TTDPatch, but I'm quite sick of rate cities grow at
00:19:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> you could read through the source and change the appropriate lines yourself ;)
00:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> how to compile is in the wiki
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00:33:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> tipp: i'd try town.h:135
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00:35:52  <Markavian`> has any one tried the 'UK Renewal Set' with OpenTTD?
00:36:09  <glx> yes it works well
00:36:21  <Markavian`> neat, I'll try get it working
00:36:53  <glx> but I suggest you to use the nighly (better newgrf support including newstations)
00:37:56  <Markavian`> how recent nightly? I'm using mini-IN at the moment which is based off the nightly
00:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should take a look at
00:38:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> the mini-IN is a little old
00:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not have newstations support
00:38:54  <Markavian`> ok
00:43:21  <Markavian`> can I use a folder prefix to new.grf files in the data directory? e.g. filestructure : data\custom\some.grf     openttd.cfg [newgrf] custom\some.grf
00:43:41  <glx> yes
00:44:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should probably use /
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00:45:12  <Markavian`> I'm on windows tho
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00:45:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... i do, and it works fine
00:45:45  <Markavian`> sadly my ISP sucks and I can't join brianetta's server
00:46:11  <glx> you have the correct grfs, in correct order ?
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00:49:16  <Markavian`> probably ... but no, its my ISP that sucks. They've blocked almost all ports, inc OpenTTD's ones
00:49:58  <Markavian`> so it seems I get a list of servers but I can't view or connect any details about them
00:50:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i urgently suggest to switch ISPs
00:51:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> you pay them to ACCESS the internet, not get 99% of it blocked
00:51:13  <glx> hmm you have the same ottd version as the server you want to connect?
00:53:09  <Markavian`> I don't get a choice in this shoddy student accomodation
00:53:19  <Markavian`> glx, yes. Its a port thing.
00:53:52  <glx> so UDP is open but TCP is closed?
00:53:56  <glx> really weird
00:54:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> use some kind of proxy?
00:54:24  <Markavian`> like, a proxy where?
00:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> google->open proxy list or something?
00:55:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> be a little creative ;)
00:55:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i have no clue how to set up OTTD to use a proxy
00:59:31  <Markavian`> Maybe by setting connect_to_ip = to somethnig special
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00:59:50  <Markavian`> I dunno what that value does actually
01:01:27  <Markavian`> someone tried to help me sort it once by forwarding their server to port 80 (HTTP)
01:02:33  <Markavian`> but it still wouldn't work properly, probably because OpenTTd was still sending data out on 3979
01:02:33  <Markavian`>  instead of back on 80
01:03:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> a client should only need an outgoing TCP connection
01:03:23  <glx> hmm should work if the server is set to port 80, and the client connects to server via port 80
01:03:48  <Markavian`> :: jaw drops ::
01:03:55  <Markavian`> got the new gfr working........
01:04:15  <Markavian`> ... custom station tiles? `_`
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01:05:04  <Markavian`> glx, yes I agree. I think this person was trying to get his server to run on port 80 and port 3979 at the same time
01:05:31  <glx> I think that's not possible (at least for ottd)
01:07:38  <Markavian`> this is so cool!
01:07:58  <glx> newstations?
01:08:03  <Markavian`> yah
01:08:11  <Markavian`> :: smiles all over ::
01:08:19  <Markavian`> I'm playing with the coal load / unloader stations
01:08:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, some of them are quite neat ;)
01:08:23  <Markavian`> and... theres just a huge list
01:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> just refrain from using empty station tiles (grass) ;)
01:09:27  <Markavian`> lol
01:09:30  <glx> usefull to connect stations invisibly
01:09:37  <Markavian`> sadly, I'm missing pbs already
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01:11:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> i know the feeling ;)
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01:27:22  <SimonRC> Markavian`: realy, what's happened to it?
01:34:23  <Markavian`> what happened to what SimonRC?
01:34:38  <SimonRC> /topic "<@Bjarni> actually the main task today was train driving || <@Bjarni> kind of like MS train sim, but a lot more realistic"
01:34:47  <SimonRC> "< Markavian`> sadly, I'm missing pbs already"
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01:36:08  <Markavian`> last I heard pbs had been removed from the main trunk and was only available using the mini-IN patch
01:36:47  <glx> that's still the case
01:36:52  <SimonRC> hmm, ok
01:37:26  <SimonRC> How is OTTD's performance compared to that of TTD original?
01:37:48  <Markavian`> performance, heck if I know, but its far more fun 'cause of the extra features
01:37:55  <SimonRC> yeah
01:38:16  <SimonRC> I was asking for the purposes of C-to-ASM comparison.
01:39:05  <SimonRC> Did you know many of his games were written entirely in ASM?  Even RRT1!
01:39:15  <ln-> we did.
01:39:18  <SimonRC> RCT, even
01:39:40  <SimonRC> bah
01:40:06  * SimonRC tries to think of something relevant he knows that no-one else here does
01:41:33  <glx> I can say that on my machine, ottd is faster than ttdp (but can be different for someone else)
01:43:00  <glx> (PII 233Mhz, 256Mo, winXP)
01:46:56  <Markavian`> ASM, assembly?
01:51:28  <SimonRC> yes
02:02:11  <Markavian`> Anyone thought about adding 'decoration tiles' to the landscape panel?
02:02:37  <glx> what do you mean?
02:03:01  <Markavian`> like, dirt types, special buildings, stuff by the side of tracks
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02:06:11  <Markavian> my PC crashed, so I missed anyl responses
02:06:25  <Markavian> 'decoration tiles', extra tiles that you place for decoration
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02:06:52  <glx> I don't the need of those decorations
02:07:14  <Markavian> don't see the need*?
02:07:24  <glx> +see yes :)
02:07:44  * glx should go to sleep :)
02:08:05  <glx> night
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02:08:19  <Markavian> bye
02:09:00  <Markavian> the need? The need is to make things look pretty. Why else would you need two dozen station types?
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05:44:08  <SimonRC> There really should be an automatic decorations mode, for those of use who can't be bothered to make things pretty by hand.
05:45:02  <brygge_2> crush
05:45:17  <brygge_2> oops. wrong channel =)
05:45:31  <SimonRC> /whois brygge_2
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05:47:36  * brygge_2 is on that play openttd=)
05:47:44  <brygge_2> one*
05:48:23  <SimonRC> I was hoping to find out which window you indended to type that in.
05:49:10  <brygge_2> lol, you don't want to know that.....
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06:49:40  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4872 /trunk/newgrf_engine.c: - NewGRF: add support for vehicle variable 0x47 (mart3p)
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08:09:25  <Darkvater> wow, installing suse10.1 is a blast :S
08:09:38  <Darkvater> missing libraries, no network and my dvd-rom isn't mounted
08:09:39  <Darkvater> S:
08:11:48  <Fujitsu> Stupid SuSE.
08:11:50  <Fujitsu> Ubuntu is good.
08:12:03  * Darkvater slaps ubuntu
08:12:45  <Fujitsu> Yes, I thought it reeked of n00b as well (after coming from Slackware and Debian), but I have grown to like it.
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08:12:56  <peter1138> heh
08:13:18  <peter1138> most of non-gnome is still debian branded
08:13:43  <Fujitsu> It /is/ basically Debian.
08:13:48  <peter1138> mostly
08:13:48  <Fujitsu> But with a twist :O
08:13:50  <Fujitsu> *:P
08:13:57  <peter1138> Darkvater: did you get anywhere with freetype/iconv?
08:14:34  <Darkvater> peter1138: well freetype works but I'm still needa decide what calling convention to use and what modules of freetype to skip
08:14:39  <Darkvater> iconv: no time
08:15:59  <Darkvater> but I got the laptop back for the week :D
08:16:34  <Darkvater> ooook
08:16:42  <Darkvater> yast2 can't mount my cdrom
08:16:44  <Darkvater> wtf
08:17:03  <peter1138> o_O
08:17:59  <Darkvater> is somehow not installed so I can't run X
08:18:00  <Darkvater> hehe
08:18:06  <Darkvater> what a noob-OS
08:18:07  <peter1138> nice install
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08:19:24  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, SuSE is not particularly good any more.
08:19:26  <Fujitsu> Ubuntu is.
08:19:41  <peter1138> was it ever good?
08:19:51  <peter1138> mind, i last used it around 6.2
08:19:57  <Fujitsu> peter1138, it apparently was, although I never thought it was good.
08:20:13  <Darkvater> 9.3 was good
08:20:16  <Fujitsu> Mind you, I do have a SuSE 6.1 manual sitting next to me which I picked up from somewhere a couple of years back.
08:24:51  <Darkvater> ooook
08:24:58  <Darkvater> I don't have libexpat on the install dvd??
08:25:31  <Darkvater> hmm
08:25:38  <Fujitsu> Silly.
08:26:37  <Darkvater> aklwejfq2[ 08uqw b
08:26:37  <Darkvater> fasdf
08:27:19  <Darkvater> how the fuck am I supposed to install anything if A depends on B and B depends on A
08:27:32  <peter1138> both at the same time"
08:28:42  <Darkvater> whohoo, even more dependencies
08:29:02  <Darkvater> so eh what do I do
08:29:13  <Prof_Frink> use ubuntu.
08:29:14  <Darkvater> fontconfig needs freetype, xorg needs freetype
08:29:23  <Darkvater> so I add rpm fontconfig, freetype, and xorg
08:29:32  <Darkvater> and it tells me failed, cause freetype is needed
08:29:34  <Darkvater> O_O
08:30:41  <Darkvater> and I can't install freetype cause it needs libSM and libICE which I can't find
08:30:50  <Darkvater> great fucking good job you suse geeks
08:31:40  <vondel> time to call the helpdesk?
08:31:49  <vondel> (if you bought the dvd's)
08:32:03  <Darkvater> funny
08:32:21  <Fujitsu> I /love/ RPM.
08:32:39  <Fujitsu> RPM dependency hell. Gotta love it.
08:32:59  * Fujitsu huggles apt(-get|itude)
08:33:53  <Darkvater> muhhaha and media-check works on the cd
08:33:57  * Darkvater goes slowly insane
08:35:06  * Fujitsu relieves Darkvater's insanity with some Ubuntu.
08:35:10  <Fujitsu> Isn't that right, Prof_Frink?
08:36:01  <Fujitsu> Yes, I dare to question Great Leader Darkvater's judgement.
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08:40:12  <Darkvater> Following some eight months of testing, the openSUSE project has finally released the long-delayed and much-awaited SUSE Linux 10.1
08:40:18  <Fujitsu> Terrific.
08:40:22  <Darkvater> I donnu what these guys have been doing the last 8 months
08:40:32  <Fujitsu> Exactly.
08:40:51  <Fujitsu> Ubuntu 6.06 will be supported for 3 years on the desktop, 5 years on server, and is already incredibly stable.
08:41:22  <Darkvater> o_O and now the cd works
08:41:24  <Fujitsu> Unbuggy, the installation gives you a working system...
08:41:32  <Darkvater> *AFTER* I have added it manually to /etc/fstab
08:41:42  <Darkvater> (and a reboot)
08:41:49  <Fujitsu> Silly, silly SuSE.
08:42:16  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, didn't they change the capitalization back from SUSE to SuSE a couple of months back!?
08:42:39  <Darkvater> donnu, the login still says SUSE
08:42:46  <Fujitsu> Silly, it was changed again.
08:42:47  <Darkvater> but the text is SuSE
08:43:16  <Darkvater> and behold /me has X
08:43:31  <Fujitsu> Took you a while.
08:43:33  <Darkvater> hmm maybe not
08:43:38  <Fujitsu> SuSE gives Linux a bad name.
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08:44:13  <Darkvater> aha
08:44:22  <Fujitsu> ?
08:44:24  <Darkvater> 'FBDEV: FBIOBLANK: Invalid argument'
08:44:27  <Darkvater> ...
08:45:14  <Fujitsu> ... SuSE is bad, what can I say.
08:47:01  <Darkvater> I think the dependency calculation on install is totally broken
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08:48:32  <Fujitsu> No, you don't say?
08:48:38  <Fujitsu> Like Fedora Core 5.
08:48:56  <Darkvater> he it works now
08:49:02  <Darkvater> qt3 lib was missing o_O
08:50:09  <Fujitsu> ...
08:50:10  <Fujitsu> KDE...
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08:54:02  <Darkvater> ok wtf something's terribly broke!
08:54:08  <Darkvater> I can't even open my computer
08:54:09  <Darkvater> ...
08:55:24  * peter1138 throws .deb-based cds around
08:56:49  <Darkvater> wtf...where are ALL my apps?
08:56:58  * Darkvater thinks this is highly suspicious
08:57:01  <peter1138> y
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08:57:31  * Fujitsu agrees with peter1138.
08:57:42  <Darkvater> hmm...the question is now
08:57:42  * Fujitsu throws his new shipment of Ubuntu CDs at Darkvater.
08:57:44  <peter1138> update-rc.d: warning: /etc/rc2.d/K09samba is not a link to ../init.d/samba or /etc/init.d/samba
08:57:48  <peter1138> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 2004-12-14 08:20 /etc/rc2.d/K09samba -> /samba
08:57:49  <peter1138> o_O
08:57:51  <Fujitsu> (took 12 days to arrive from Europe, for free)
08:58:00  * peter1138 wonders why it was linked to / anyway...
08:58:01  <Darkvater> 1. do I want to reinstall 10.1 again or 2. go back to windows?
08:58:08  <Fujitsu> Your init scripts are stuffed, peter1138.
08:58:13  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, try Ubuntu. I'm serious.
08:58:16  <peter1138> Fujitsu: apparently, i relinked it.
08:58:22  <Darkvater> I am NOT doing ubuntu
08:58:22  <peter1138> i never changed it, though, heh
08:58:27  <Darkvater> besdies, I hate gnome
08:58:32  <Fujitsu> Kubuntu, then.
08:58:40  <Fujitsu> Why not Ubuntu, Darkvater?
08:58:57  <Darkvater> I had some bad experiences with it
08:59:07  <peter1138> and not with suse? :P
08:59:15  <Darkvater> not until now
08:59:32  <Fujitsu> What bad experiencen?
08:59:36  <Fujitsu> And when?
08:59:45  <Darkvater> year ago
09:00:26  <Fujitsu> Oh. Ages.
09:01:47  <Fujitsu> Whatever bad experience you had is probably no more.
09:02:39  <Darkvater> I am happened to the start menu. All I got is 'recent documents', 'my system' and 'run command'
09:02:50  <Darkvater> my system only has my computer, userfolder and shit like that
09:03:07  <Fujitsu> SuSE has f???ed itself.
09:03:17  <vondel> task #171 (flyspray) can be closed
09:03:33  <Darkvater> the 'my computer' shortcut opens the sysinfo...
09:04:12  <Darkvater> which does look cool but is not what you would want
09:04:49  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, trust me, that installation is DEAD.
09:05:08  * Darkvater flips a coint for windows or reinstall
09:05:23  <Fujitsu> I suggest installing Ubuntu 5.10 (or 6.06 beta), reinstall SuSE, but please don't go back to Windows :(
09:05:32  <peter1138> hmm, i left newsounds at home
09:05:37  <peter1138> go back to windows
09:05:40  <Fujitsu> peter1138, bad!
09:05:44  <peter1138> i need you to sort out freetype/iconv ;)
09:05:54  <Darkvater> I don't need windows for that
09:05:54  <Fujitsu> peter1138, please don't encourage him D:
09:05:55  <Darkvater> vmware
09:07:21  <peter1138> hmm
09:07:29  <peter1138> so how shall we handle user input, anyway?
09:08:08  <Darkvater> gracefully
09:08:15  <peter1138> the russian's patches use a totally separate windows sepcific window to enter stuff (i think)
09:08:28  <Fujitsu> Oh dear.
09:09:44  <peter1138> hmm
09:09:44  <Darkvater> oh shit
09:09:50  <peter1138> ?
09:09:50  <Darkvater> forgot my coin
09:09:54  <peter1138> heh
09:10:18  <peter1138> we could come up with a compose system
09:10:22  <Darkvater> o_O. The new networkmanagerdispatcher only works on X
09:10:32  <peter1138> cos afaik the sdl input ignores all that stuff and just gives the key presses
09:10:56  <Darkvater> who cares about sdl? :)
09:11:07  <peter1138> ...
09:11:12  <peter1138> we do
09:11:49  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, noooooooo.
09:12:46  <peter1138> our video/ directory also includes our key handling code
09:12:46  <Fujitsu> Dinner.
09:12:49  <peter1138> yum.
09:12:54  <Fujitsu> ...
09:13:02  <Fujitsu> Was that a deliberate pun, peter1138?
09:13:06  <Darkvater> whohooo I can't eject my dvd
09:13:09  <Darkvater> 'permissions denied'
09:13:16  <Fujitsu> Darkvater, we all love SuSE>
09:13:36  <peter1138> hmm
09:13:44  <peter1138> SDLEnableUnicode()
09:14:09  <Darkvater> lkajwef 0qv83a
09:14:10  <Darkvater> dfa
09:14:10  <Darkvater> sd
09:14:44  * Darkvater does a reinstall with all default stuff but if that doesn't work I'm back to windows
09:15:31  <peter1138> hmm, looks like that might be the way
09:15:45  <Darkvater> windows, yes ;p
09:15:56  <peter1138> no, SDLEnableUnicode :P
09:16:00  <Darkvater> I know
09:16:01  <peter1138> dunno about windows though
09:16:26  <peter1138> or coca
09:16:28  <peter1138> +o
09:16:43  <Darkvater> I am willing to go the osx way if someone donates me one
09:16:54  <Darkvater> Fujitsu: :)
09:17:14  <peter1138> ····SDL_CALL SDL_EnableUNICODE(1);
09:17:18  <peter1138> oh, we do anyway. hmm.
09:17:35  <Darkvater> he?
09:19:03  <peter1138> hmm
09:19:07  <peter1138> so then input... hmm.
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09:20:41  <peter1138> ····we.keypress.ascii = key & 0xFF;
09:20:43  <peter1138> hmm
09:20:53  <blathijs> 11:03 < Darkvater> the 'my computer' shortcut opens the sysinfo... <-- You mean you have a "my computer" shortcut in your linux install?
09:20:59  <Darkvater> yes
09:21:18  <blathijs> I think making your linux look so much like windows will probably make it behave so erratic as windows ;-p
09:21:33  <Darkvater> :)
09:21:54  <Darkvater> I think I might've screwed something up with package selection so now I am doing just a default install
09:22:00  <Darkvater> and just delete the crap afterards
09:22:15  <blathijs> ah :-)
09:22:37  <Darkvater> good think I was using linux for over a year now
09:22:44  <Darkvater> otherwise I would've gone straight back
09:22:49  <blathijs> dunno, no experience with SuSE
09:23:19  * stillunknown dislikes SuSE
09:23:32  <blathijs> but some improvisation skills help with using linux ;-)
09:23:55  <stillunknown> (dislikes any release based os, where fluid updating is practically impossible)
09:24:53  <vondel> blathijs: iirc you're desktop-environment was weird (but very usable)
09:25:01  <vondel> s/you're/your/
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09:25:36  <blathijs> stillunknown: indeed :-)
09:26:06  <vondel> yeah, i like doing updates, year after year
09:26:07  *** Xaroth is now known as [Shaman]
09:26:27  <stillunknown> if you're not afraid of the console, you could try gentoo or arch linux or maybe one of the *BSD's (no experience with those though)
09:26:40  <blathijs> vondel: My environment is plain enlightenment, no kde or gnome or other useless stuff
09:27:13  <vondel> one fullscreen-window per virtual desktop?
09:27:26  <blathijs> not on my desktop
09:27:50  * vondel just checked his server: install-date looks to be jan 2003, one major prob during updates
09:27:57  <blathijs> though I have used ratpoison before
09:28:00  <vondel> in the 3 year period
09:28:11  <stillunknown> what os?
09:28:27  <blathijs> and I use ion on my laptop now, which does fullscreen windows
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09:29:00  <vondel> stillunknown: debian
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09:31:34  <blathijs> stillunknown: me uses debian too, which does upgrading rather ok
09:31:48  <blathijs> even with debian stable, which is essentially release based
09:32:06  <stillunknown> i've never used debian, but i've heard it's better than suse, fedora, etc
09:33:14  <vondel> there's a bias in those opinions
09:33:25  <stillunknown> ofcource
09:33:44  <vondel> only people who have some skill in basic sysadmin use debian
09:33:58  <stillunknown> but debian doesn't have the rpm hell (i think)
09:35:08  <vondel> because almost all packages can be found in the repositories
09:35:32  <vondel> and a good frontend
09:35:35  <stillunknown> last time i used suse it was a bitch to install anything not included by default, but it's been a while
09:36:03  <blathijs> same here, haven't used RPM in 5 years or so
09:36:25  <valhallazzzw> deb O+
09:36:32  <vondel> i like aptitude: it knows which packages were automatically installed (to solve dependencies), so if it's no longer needed, it's uninstalled
09:36:42  <valhallazzzw> hehe
09:36:46  <valhallazzzw> <-- why the GPL is bad for users :(
09:37:41  <vondel> like windows ships with nvidia-drivers....
09:37:49  <valhallazzzw> no
09:38:04  <valhallazzzw> but installing nvidia-drivers in linux is a bit harder than in windows
09:38:43  <vondel> a decent distro has a gui to retrieve/install those drivers
09:39:10  <valhallazzzw> now that's useful
09:39:29  <valhallazzzw> because the GPL limits you in shipping the drivers, you build an interface to retrieve them
09:40:37  <vondel> that's one of the restrictions the kernel-people put on their project, if you don't like it, use another kernel
09:41:13  <valhallazzzw> erm
09:41:16  <peter1138> like, say, windows :D
09:41:25  <vondel> bsd kernel
09:41:30  <valhallazzzw> you are completely missing the point obviously
09:41:59  <valhallazzzw> I stated that the GPL is bad for users
09:42:05  <valhallazzzw> you react with 'use another kernel'
09:42:11  <vondel> on the short term it's bad
09:42:23  <vondel> on the longer term it's bad to allow inclusion of binaries
09:42:28  <valhallazzzw> nvidia can't GPL their drivers
09:42:40  <stillunknown> why not?
09:42:43  <[Shaman]> [vondel]: only people who have some skill in basic sysadmin use debian << I started out on debian, still use it.
09:43:01  <[Shaman]> never had any trouble with it that my limited linux knowledge could fix.
09:43:12  <valhallazzzw> a) it includes 'inside' information about their video cards -> competition
09:43:29  <valhallazzzw> b) they have to think of patent restrictions of other companies
09:43:49  <peter1138> c) gpl sucks ;p
09:43:56  <blathijs> they say the frontends have improved...
09:44:01  <[Shaman]> d) Everybody would see they produce sucky code :p
09:44:39  <Kjetil> what inside information would that be ?
09:44:46  <valhallazzzw> debian is easy, as long as you know apt-get and apt-cache ;)
09:44:58  <valhallazzzw> Kjetil: drivers contain information about the cards structure
09:45:01  <[Shaman]> valhallazzzw: True, apt-get saved my live a million times allready :P
09:45:12  <valhallazzzw> so ATi would be very pleased if NVidia GPL'ed their drivers
09:45:15  <vondel> if linux gets depended on closed source drivers, nvidia could effectively shut down linux
09:45:26  <valhallazzzw> because?
09:45:38  <[Shaman]> Not at all, vondel
09:45:40  <vondel> and other companies would see the precendent, and would never release an open source driver
09:45:44  <Kjetil> valhallazzzw: and.. ATI can't just.. reverse engineer the drivers or reverse engineer nvidias cards ?
09:46:02  <vondel> now people are still working on open source nvidia driver
09:46:09  <valhallazzzw> Kjetil: that's a lot harder than having the source in front of you
09:46:23  <[Shaman]> not to mention they aren't allowed to reverse-engineer it :P
09:46:31  <Kjetil> *ponders how openttd was made*
09:46:47  <Kjetil> Might it have something to do with ttd asm ?
09:46:47  <[Shaman]> Kjetil: word by word :P
09:47:16  <Fujitsu> Hehehhe
09:47:26  <Kjetil> They could do it with clean room reverse engineering
09:47:28  <[Shaman]> games, and old games in special, are more easy to mimic than recent software
09:47:33  * stillunknown considered using the open source nv drivers, but loosing 3d accel is not very nice
09:48:00  <peter1138> they're noticeably slower at 2D too
09:48:48  <stillunknown> i thought they were 2d accelerated
09:49:09  <peter1138> that doesn't mean the performance will be the same
09:50:28  <valhallazzzw> anyway, I hope you don't honestly think NVidia will GPL their drivers because of Linux
09:51:26  <vondel> they could release the bits of their hardware-spec
09:51:39  <valhallazzzw> they won't
09:51:51  <stillunknown> i hope they will gpl what they can (i doubt the current nv driver is the maximum of what they can do)
09:52:44  <[Shaman]> They should gpl every bit they 'can' gpl
09:53:15  <vondel> not necesarry gpl, but gpl compatible
09:53:19  <valhallazzzw> we should send in some guys from SUN ;)
09:54:07  <Fujitsu> Hahahahah
09:54:10  <Fujitsu> Very true.
09:55:06  <valhallazzzw> now I wonder
09:55:20  <valhallazzzw> what if they would create a driver which has a BSD'ed base
09:55:45  <Fujitsu> ...
09:55:46  <Fujitsu> Urgh.
09:55:47  <valhallazzzw> will GPL still prevent them from including binary parts? ;)
09:56:03  <vondel> no
09:56:17  <vondel> because then you have the sources to completely build the system
09:56:28  <vondel> the system as distributed
09:56:40  <valhallazzzw> hmkay
09:56:49  <valhallazzzw> IIRC nvidia includes some sort of source code
09:57:54  <vondel> just interfacing code
09:58:27  <valhallazzzw> yes
09:58:37  <valhallazzzw> but that code allows you to build the system
09:58:54  <vondel> does not allow you the build the nvidia-binary part
09:59:12  <valhallazzzw> 11:55 < valhallazzzw> will GPL still prevent them from including binary parts? ;)
09:59:36  <vondel> you can include it, but you cannot distribute it included
10:00:03  <valhallazzzw> erm?
10:00:25  <vondel> gpl: free to use anyway you like + distribute only under certain conditions
10:00:45  <valhallazzzw> yes
10:01:43  <vondel> i'm not sure about including the nvidia installer
10:01:47  <vondel> i'd say yes
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10:02:44  <vondel> and at startup a simple dialog: "We think this system has a NVIDIA video card, do you want to install the NVIDIA-driver? (YES/no)"
10:03:01  <vondel> same thing for ATI/Matrox/Etc
10:04:32  <valhallazzzw> can they distribute the binary info with the distro?
10:07:20  <valhallazzzw> ... right
10:07:31  <valhallazzzw> the end user only has to press YES and switch cd's
10:08:32  <valhallazzzw> "What constitutes combining two parts into one program? This is a legal question, which ultimately judges will decide." --From the FSF
10:09:02  <vondel> would be good if some lawyers/judges gave opinions about it
10:09:17  <vondel> maybe the prof who was codesigner of the gpl
10:09:53  <valhallazzzw> the FSF has opinions about *every* part of the GPL
10:10:04  <valhallazzzw> they keep whining about "a diff is not the source" etc
10:13:16  <valhallazzzw> and of couse, the stupid "module-inclusion = using it to build the source"
10:13:27  <valhallazzzw> which makes it impossible to GPL modules for closed-source software
10:14:17  <Darkvater> ok, this default install seems to work
10:14:25  <Fujitsu> Goodo.l
10:15:29  <Darkvater> but I am still going back to windows
10:15:33  <Darkvater> *hr* *hr*
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10:16:39  <Darkvater> I'd wish linux had a more sane free-memory info
10:16:45  <Fujitsu> ?
10:16:49  <vondel> free
10:16:51  <Darkvater> free memory: 17MB (+ 833MB caches)
10:17:08  <Darkvater> I mean come on..just tel me I have 850MB free
10:17:17  <Darkvater> and say in parentheses that 833 is cached
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10:17:24  <Fujitsu> Perhaps.
10:17:46  <Fujitsu> Linux makes good use of the RAM you give it.
10:17:50  <Fujitsu> Windows doesn't.
10:18:00  * vondel points Darkvater to the second row in the output of "free"
10:18:04  <Darkvater> I don't care about that. It is still confusing
10:18:34  <Darkvater> keke
10:18:46  <peter1138> ok, utf-8keyboard input works
10:18:59  <peter1138> although i can't get a euro...
10:19:01  <peter1138> X11: Unknown xsym, sym = 0x20ac
10:19:04  <peter1138> o_O
10:19:23  <ln-> ?
10:19:46  <peter1138> nearly there thoughy
10:19:52  <Fujitsu> Heheh
10:24:28  <peter1138> -y
10:24:46  <Darkvater> :)
10:26:10  <peter1138> hmm
10:26:25  <peter1138> this needs a bit of thinking
10:26:30  <peter1138> and i should do some work
10:31:46  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-228-42.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
10:32:24  <Sacro> morning all
10:34:12  <Darkvater> < install disk :)
10:34:23  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
10:34:59  <Sacro> well i was thinking of getting my hands on a copy of it
10:35:03  * peter1138 ponders making the textbuf handle ucs-4
10:37:03  <Tobin> Darkvater: What happened to the magic bridges thread?
10:37:16  * Darkvater forwards question to celestar
10:37:25  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
10:37:28  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
10:37:38  * Tobin waves at Bjarni
10:40:32  <peter1138> ah, seems the cocoa drivers handle unicode too
10:41:02  * Bjarni waves back
10:41:21  <peter1138> i bet the win32 driver doesn't
10:41:32  <Bjarni> peter1138: nice. How did you manage to code that without a mac to test on?
10:41:36  <peter1138> hmm, converts keyboardstate to ascii, so...
10:41:36  <Fujitsu> Win32 is silly. Let's drop support :P
10:41:44  <peter1138> Bjarni: i didn't, i looked at the source
10:41:53  <peter1138> _pressed_key = QZ_MapKey(keycode) | unicode;
10:42:12  <Kjetil> lets concentrate on our support for qnx
10:43:22  <Bjarni> OSX use unicode for everything if the apps allow it, so it's a non-mac way not to support unicode ;)
10:47:49  *** tokai [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
10:49:27  <Darkvater> and
10:49:38  <Darkvater> this also marks the joyous event of a new digital camera :D
10:50:05  <peter1138> desktop2.jpg
10:50:20  <peter1138> correct place for an html3.2 book
10:50:25  <Darkvater> ;p
10:50:28  <Tobin> The advent of a new digital camera, you mean.
10:50:37  * Tobin is angry at digital cameras
10:50:57  * Fujitsu wonders why.
10:51:05  <Darkvater> peter1138: I am too lazy to build a proper standard...been like this for over a year
10:51:09  <Darkvater> never use the book anymore ;p
10:51:15  <peter1138> well
10:51:34  <peter1138> mine is raised with a Procomm Plus for Windows box, and a "Guide to Webcasting" book
10:51:43  <Darkvater> :)
10:51:46  <Tobin> Fujitsu: Because of the state of cross platform video conferencing.
10:51:58  <Tobin> Fujitsu: So really I'm angry at webcams.
10:52:00  <Fujitsu> Hmm.
10:52:02  <Fujitsu> Terrific.
10:52:06  <Fujitsu> Ekiga forever!
10:53:58  <Bjarni> Darkvater: I knew it. All I can see is a computer to use for (in the pics unknown) purposes, you got ammo and pics of firearms, yet you deny that you could be a security threat
10:54:10  <orudge> Hmm
10:54:11  * orudge shall be travelling some 22,322 miles by plane this summer
10:54:15  <orudge> Seems like quite a large number to me
10:54:20  <Darkvater> orudge: donation summary?
10:54:31  * Darkvater keeps annoying orudge until he gets it  :)
10:54:33  <orudge> Donation summary: I have an exam in 2 hours, and haven't had time to add it all up yet :p
10:54:35  <Darkvater> Bjarni: no comment
10:54:39  <Bjarni> :p
10:55:05  <orudge> My exams will be finished reasonably soon (a week on Wednesday), so I'll see if I can add it up after then, or if I have some free time within that period
10:55:28  <Fujitsu> Approximately?
10:55:35  <orudge> Approximately I'm not sure
10:55:41  <orudge> But it was over EUR100 a few months ago
10:55:48  <Fujitsu> OK.
10:56:00  <Fujitsu> What's it now? Millions? Billions? :P
10:56:04  <orudge> Hah, I wish :p
10:56:13  <orudge> Say, do you guys want to donate 80% of donations to the "Owen Travel Fund"? :p
10:56:27  <Darkvater> sounds attracting... but no
10:56:34  <orudge> Aw.
10:56:50  <Bjarni> why do you want to travel far away?
10:57:05  <orudge> Going to California and Brazil this summer :D
10:57:19  <orudge> and no doubt eating beans on toast for the rest of the summer
10:57:27  <Fujitsu> Hahahah
10:57:41  <Brianetta> DV either lives in the attic or under the stairs
10:57:42  <Bjarni> do you think women are cheaper in Asia or something?
10:57:47  <Brianetta> Either way, he's scarier than I thought
10:57:49  <orudge> In Asia?
10:57:51  * orudge is going not to Asia
10:57:59  <Bjarni> hmm
10:58:05  <Darkvater> nice going Bjarni
10:58:10  <Darkvater> Brianetta: am I?
10:58:10  <Sacro> come to Hull, they're cheap here :)
10:58:11  <Bjarni> travelling that far without reaching Asia....
10:58:17  <orudge> Edinburgh -> Atlanta -> San Francisco, and back, and then London Gatwick -> Faro -> Lisbon -> Recife, then Recife -> Lisbon -> Frankfurt -> Heathrow
10:58:21  <Bjarni> I thought it was a trip around the world or something
10:58:34  <Bjarni> ahh
10:58:34  <Brianetta> Edinburgh++
10:58:35  <Bjarni> close
10:58:38  <Fujitsu> Silly orudge missing out Australia...
10:58:44  <Bjarni> yeah
10:58:45  <orudge> Well, Australia can come another year
10:58:56  <Brianetta> The only city I know where there's a railway station where a city would normally have its river
10:58:56  <Bjarni> there is just one problem with Australia
10:59:03  <Bjarni> it's full of Australians
10:59:04  <Bjarni> :p
10:59:07  <orudge> Heh
10:59:08  * Bjarni hides
10:59:10  * Fujitsu murders Bjarni dead.
10:59:11  <Brianetta> My dad's Australian ):
10:59:12  <orudge> All them criminals
10:59:13  <orudge> See!
10:59:14  <orudge> See!
10:59:20  * orudge was right
10:59:27  * Fujitsu calls on Tobin, ThePizzaKing, etc. to all also attack Bjarni.
10:59:41  * Fujitsu all grabs TheKitchenSink.
10:59:42  <Bjarni> hey, I didn't say anything, I just quoted BBC
10:59:46  <orudge> I had a Fujitsu dot-matrix printer.
10:59:52  * Fujitsu is flattered.
10:59:54  * ThePizzaKing gnarls on Bjarni's leg
11:00:03  <Fujitsu> Gnaws, you mean?
11:00:12  <Tobin> I'm not slapping him, he's a Scandinavian. You can't tell where they've been. :)
11:00:15  <Sacro> Bjarni: ive heard jeramy clarkson say a smiliar quote about france
11:00:17  * Bjarni eats the king size pizza
11:00:18  <ThePizzaKing> yeah, whatever
11:00:19  <Bjarni> problem gone
11:00:24  * Fujitsu slays Bjarni further.
11:00:27  <ThePizzaKing> oh, well
11:00:34  * Fujitsu is deported to the Colony of Victoria.
11:00:44  <Bjarni> Sacro: I think it was some Jeremy guy, who said it
11:00:50  <Bjarni> maybe it's the same
11:00:57  <Fujitsu> Yay for TheKitchenSink, who introduced me to TTD.
11:01:06  <Brianetta> Back later and stuff
11:01:06  <Bjarni> o_O
11:01:08  *** Brianetta [] has quit ["Tsch??"]
11:01:37  <Sacro> gah, parents
11:01:40  <Bjarni> how can Fujitsu look at a kitchen sink and realise that he wants to go to a certain webpage to download a game he never heard of?
11:01:55  <Fujitsu> Ha. Ha.
11:02:12  <Bjarni> Sacro: so you have to stop talking about your sexual abilities in here or ?
11:02:20  * Bjarni hides again
11:02:26  <Fujitsu> Hahahah.
11:02:36  * Fujitsu calls on everybody to attack Bjarni.
11:02:44  * Fujitsu pelts Bjarni with stones.
11:02:47  * orudge bounces
11:02:56  <Bjarni> Fujitsu: you missed the point
11:02:57  * Fujitsu pops orudge.
11:03:02  * orudge bounces
11:03:02  <Sacro> Bjarni: no im just wishing i had my own transport, and my mum would stop lying to me
11:03:12  <Fujitsu> Ahh. Parent.s
11:03:26  * Fujitsu  sticks a pin in orudge, thus exploding him.
11:03:28  <Bjarni> Fujitsu: whenever a certain keyword is used, like parents, you got to say stuff like that
11:03:53  <Fujitsu> Noted, Bjarni.
11:04:03  * Fujitsu modifies his Python bot to do that.
11:04:08  <Bjarni> Sacro: ... my mum would stop lying to me <-- that explains how you got the way you are
11:04:26  <Bjarni> Freud would likely have a lot to say about that
11:05:49  <Sacro> Freud would have a field trip studying me
11:06:54  <Sacro> i really should find out why both my eyes dont focus on the screen at once
11:07:53  * orudge bounces
11:08:16  * Sacro pushes orudge over
11:08:53  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
11:10:28  * orudge bounces
11:12:39  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	i really should find out why both my eyes dont focus on the screen at once <-- lack of focus = drunk mom during pregnancy?
11:12:52  <Bjarni> or is it just that there is a girl nearby?
11:13:06  <Sacro> girl?
11:13:11  * Sacro looks around
11:13:12  <Bjarni> good point
11:14:32  <vondel> a curious mom?
11:17:47  <Sacro> no, a useless one
11:18:40  <ThePizzaKing> ah, so that's why we were attacking Bjarni
11:23:19  * orudge bounces
11:25:09  <Sacro> stop bouncing :)
11:27:56  * ledow glues orudge to the floor
11:28:04  * orudge bounces
11:29:18  *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@] has quit ["Look ma, no script!"]
11:31:00  * valhallazzzw curses
11:31:23  <valhallazzzw> how am I supposed to develop JS in firefox when it works one night and doesn't the next
11:31:29  <valhallazzzw> with exactly the same files?
11:31:30  <Sacro> hmm, openttd in ncurses
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11:33:25  <tank_> Sacro: openttd by aalib rocks:)
11:33:31  <tank_> Sacro: but well.. you can't play:)
11:34:48  <Sacro> i tried it but never got it to work
11:35:23  <tank_> hm.. i accidently tried it, when i was logged on remote over ssh on another computer in the computer-room
11:35:43  <tank_> didn't recognize, that it was no local shell, just startet openttd and then it came in aalib ;)
11:39:23  <Sacro> lo
11:39:24  <Sacro> l
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11:44:38  <Zr40> tank_: try libcaca ;)
12:03:25  * orudge goes to exam ;<
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12:06:23  <Fujitsu> orudge: :(
12:06:42  <Fujitsu> Good luck.
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12:29:47  <CIA-3> miham * r4873 /trunk/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:29:47  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-15 14:29:26
12:29:47  <CIA-3> afrikaans - 794 fixed by TrueTenacity (794)
12:29:47  <CIA-3> finnish - 12 fixed, 1 changed by lauri.kajan (13)
12:29:47  <CIA-3> french - 32 fixed by glx (32)
12:29:48  <CIA-3> italian - 3 fixed, 51 changed by sidew (54)
12:29:50  <CIA-3> portuguese - 4 fixed by izhirahider (4)
12:30:17  <MiHaMiX> slovenian  - 3 fixed, 3 changed by christooss (6)
12:30:19  <MiHaMiX> ukrainian  - 88 fixed, 1 changed by znikoz (89)
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12:31:31  <Zr40> 794.... wow :)
12:32:15  <Zr40> MiHaMiX: why does the 'global statistics' page indicate 0% for afrikaans, even though that log message says 794 have been fixed?
12:32:24  <MiHaMiX> Total I18N progress: 92% (5253 bad strings out of 73052 strings)
12:32:32  <MiHaMiX> Zr40: let's refresh the globalstat
12:32:42  <Zr40> MiHaMiX: ah, it's correct now
12:32:46  <MiHaMiX> Zr40: at each svn commit WT2 revalidates the stats
12:32:58  <MiHaMiX> Zr40: when there are so many changes it took some time
12:32:58  <Zr40> refreshed just before you said so ;)
12:33:03  <Zr40> right
12:33:18  <MiHaMiX> btw
12:33:39  <MiHaMiX> frisian language will be deleted if noone volunteers to continue the translation
12:34:01  <Zr40> I don't see a frisian language at the stats page
12:34:02  <MiHaMiX> since only a few strings are translated, and no translator for 3 months and old translator vanished :-(
12:34:11  <MiHaMiX> yes, since I already marked that as internal
12:34:25  <Zr40> I know a frisian person, but he doesn't play openttd :(
12:34:33  <MiHaMiX> which means I don't calculate stats for that language
12:34:45  <Zr40> btw
12:34:47  <MiHaMiX> Zr40: could you please introduce her/him to OpenTTD
12:34:48  <MiHaMiX> ? :)
12:34:53  <Zr40> how's that debug langage coming along? :)
12:35:03  <Zr40> language*
12:35:12  <MiHaMiX> nothing serious, ask Darkvater for more info :)
12:35:23  * Zr40 pings Darkvater
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12:36:56  <peter1138> still some incorrect plurals :/
12:38:20  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: which language?
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12:38:48  <MiHaMiX> glx: [[14:30]] <CIA-3> french - 32 fixed by glx (32)
12:38:52  <peter1138> latvian, lithuanian, slovenian and ukrainian
12:39:02  <peter1138> it bombs out on the first mistake
12:39:14  <glx> MiHaMiX: :)
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12:44:28  <glx> oh some ³ are wrong :(
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12:46:55  <peter1138> MiHaMiX doesn't believe that ³ exists in latin-15 ;)
12:48:04  <MiHaMiX> glx: where are the ?
12:48:25  <MiHaMiX> glx: are they wrong even in the game?
12:48:28  <peter1138> STR_UNITS_VOLUME_SHORT_SI
12:48:32  <peter1138> & LONG
12:48:39  <MiHaMiX> ahh, the ^3
12:48:42  <peter1138> STR_UNITS_FORCE_IMPERIAL is right, however
12:48:43  <MiHaMiX> (cubic sign)
12:48:45  <glx> I'm compinling to check
12:49:05  <glx> 2 are copy/paste from english strings
12:49:12  <ledow> glx: Thanks for fixing the players console command for me... it works fine.
12:49:48  <MiHaMiX> glx: well, the ? thing is in the english, since I cannot validate that char as an iso8859-15 char
12:49:50  <glx> ledow: indeed it still have a bug (company value is a 64bit value
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12:52:00  <peter1138> ³ is in latin1 in the same place as latin15, too. hmm.
12:52:57  <glx> it's 0xB3 when I open langfile in hex mode
12:53:10  <peter1138> yeah
12:54:07  <MiHaMiX> hmm
12:54:36  <MiHaMiX> hmm    0x00b0, 0x00b1, 0x00b2, 0x00b3, 0x017d, 0x00b5, 0x00b6, 0x00b7,
12:54:39  <MiHaMiX> it's in.
12:54:43  <MiHaMiX> lemme check english
12:55:07  <glx> english is wrong :)
12:55:29  <MiHaMiX> no:)
12:55:42  <glx> in wt2 it is
12:55:51  <MiHaMiX> <³>  <|3>  <M-3>  179,  Hex b3,  Octal 263
12:56:06  <glx> or the reference string in wt2 is wrong
12:56:12  <MiHaMiX> ok, let me emulate my charset converter
12:56:23  <MiHaMiX> glx: the _displayed_ english string is wrong, imho
12:56:41  <glx> that's what I mean :)
12:56:56  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
12:58:41  <MiHaMiX> hey Belugas :)
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13:00:16  <MiHaMiX> hmm.. quite strange
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13:01:26  <glx> heh yesterday 34 broken strings (I fixed 32) today 17 broken. What's happened?
13:01:39  <glx> new strings appeared in wt2?
13:01:42  <MiHaMiX> glx: did you used the 'copy' button to copy the string or typed manually?
13:01:48  <glx> copy button
13:01:53  <MiHaMiX> glx: hmmhmm
13:02:04  <glx> the one I typed manually is ok
13:02:30  <MiHaMiX> glx: no new strings, probably some wrong char caused some strings to be refused
13:02:41  <MiHaMiX> glx: check the manage -> broken strings
13:02:50  <MiHaMiX> glx: for the list and their reason
13:03:11  <glx> they're missing indeed
13:03:23  <MiHaMiX> hmm..
13:04:57  <MiHaMiX> glx: 20 of your changes has been accepted by the system, but 12 of them are not recognised somehow.
13:05:03  *** dst_ [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:05:06  <MiHaMiX> I must study the situation
13:05:12  *** dst_ [] has joined #openttd
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13:06:18  <glx> MiHaMiX: I didn't change the "new" missing strings (they weren't missing yesterday)
13:06:24  <MiHaMiX> glx: but your changes made their way into the langfile, so it's only WT2 who doesn't recognise them
13:07:25  <MiHaMiX> glx: aaaahh, okay, I found :)
13:07:47  <MiHaMiX> glx: these strings are already existed in english but they're not shown up in the stats
13:08:11  <glx> yeah the newly added strings :)
13:08:20  <MiHaMiX> I found a flaw in langchange detector.. when it adds strings to english language it should recalculate the stats for all languages
13:08:52  <MiHaMiX> since it fails to do i'll only recalculate them at next changes on that particulare language
13:08:59  <glx> oh and yesterday "goto page" didn't work but today it's ok
13:09:59  <MiHaMiX> glx: yes, the goto page is shared amongst languages (which is bad), I'll fix that, too ;)
13:10:19  <MiHaMiX> but let's focus on the biggest problem: flaw in langchange detector
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13:18:54  <MiHaMiX> TL|Away: ping
13:19:46  <Smoky555> Hi all :)
13:21:41  <Smoky555> is it possible to build more than 2 heliports in one city?
13:21:41  <Smoky555> i want to make something like aerotaxi service in the big city, but can build only 2 heliports :(
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13:25:36  <MiHaMiX> :DD
13:33:03  <MiHaMiX> ok, flaw in langcheck should've been fixed
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13:33:28  <brygge_2> mihamix: do you need another norwegian translator?
13:35:03  <MiHaMiX> brygge_2: yes, please email me at the address written on
13:35:07  <MiHaMiX> bbl, work
13:38:25  <brygge_2> MiHaMix:ok
13:38:50  <Bjarni> bbl
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13:53:45  <MiHaMiX> here
14:01:56  <orudge> \o/
14:02:00  <orudge> My exam went quite well in the end
14:02:43  * valhallazzzw 's exams start in 3 days :(
14:06:07  <guru3> i'm in the middle of my exams :/
14:06:09  <guru3> 7 more to go
14:06:25  <orudge> My next exam is on Thursday, then Friday, then the following Wednesday
14:06:38  <guru3> i have 5 more this week
14:06:43  <guru3> in psychology and chemistry
14:06:55  <guru3> then two more next week on tuesday
14:07:25  <guru3> fun fun fun...
14:07:26  *** Schamane_ [] has joined #openttd
14:09:01  * MiHaMiX already checked his students :)
14:15:09  *** SchAmane [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
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14:21:39  * Jango doesn't do exams any more
14:22:07  *** ZsoL [] has joined #openttd
14:23:14  <MiHaMiX> ZsoL: hali :)
14:26:08  *** Schamane_ is now known as SchAmane
14:30:35  <Smoky555> nobody can't tell me about heliports ? sadly :(
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14:31:17  <Belugas> hem... Smoky555 : only two airports/heliports per town :(
14:31:18  <Belugas> Sorry
14:31:53  <peter1138> fix it? ;p
14:32:07  <Belugas> Not a fix, peter1138 : a new feature !
14:32:35  <Belugas> IIRC, it is in town.flag12
14:32:45  <Smoky555> yes, peter1138 <8-)
14:33:08  <Belugas> or maybe it is where I wanted to make it accept more then 2...
14:33:13  <Belugas> Mmm...
14:33:21  * Belugas digs old patches
14:33:33  <Markavian> Eh! I'm using the UK renewal set, how come theres no train carriage for carrying wood?
14:34:00  <Markavian> As far as I can tell I have to refit one of the flatbed types and thats going to cost me an extra £22K
14:34:06  <Markavian> ... I don't have 22K to spend. this sucks.
14:38:00  <Vornicus> the uk renewal set is absurdly expensive
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14:38:41  <Markavian> well, I'm ok with the running costs
14:38:56  <ln-> chaleco salvavidas debajo de su asiento.
14:38:57  <Markavian> but I thought refit costs are over the top considering there isn't a 'basic' replacement
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14:39:28  <glx> Darkvater: ping
14:39:36  <Kalpa> ln-: Nani nandatte?
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14:42:31  <Smoky555> peter1138: if you fix it, could you put a patch for this to the "OpenTTD Development" on "" ? i need to go home, my wife is calling ...
14:42:53  <Markavian> current profits per year : ~150K, train running costs ~70K
14:42:56  <peter1138> i didn't say i was going to :P
14:43:23  <peter1138> changing refit costs the ttdpatch way aren't supported yet
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14:46:02  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newsounds!
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14:47:04  <Markavian> omg that sucked. 4K earnings from 280 tns of wood, total profit this year -4K
14:47:37  <Markavian> I'm gonna have to pick a bigger map with longer routes
14:48:26  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! completenewgrfsupport!
14:49:21  <Markavian> whats left to do / support?
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15:00:24  <XeryusTC> <Vornicus> the uk renewal set is absurdly expensive <- so you never tried the db set?
15:01:09  <Vornicus> No.
15:01:18  <Vornicus> But I know that I can't make a profit using ukrs
15:01:25  <hylje> 1) UKRS
15:01:27  <hylje> 2) ???
15:01:30  <hylje> 3) Profit!
15:02:01  <XeryusTC> trains in the db set cost about 3-4x more then the trains in ukrs
15:02:18  <peter1138> profit is easy with ukrs
15:02:41  <XeryusTC> peter1138: it sure is
15:02:50  <Markavian> long distance?
15:02:52  <glx> yeah just use the correct engine
15:02:53  <XeryusTC> ukrs is nothing more then the default trains renamed, and some additions
15:03:14  <glx> no need to put a fast engine with slow wagons
15:03:25  <Markavian> I'm using brianetta's recommended combination
15:03:27  <Vornicus> um
15:03:29  <peter1138> assuming "redrawn" = "nothing more than renamed"
15:05:48  <XeryusTC> yes
15:05:52  <XeryusTC> :P
15:06:48  <Markavian> cool new station types
15:10:14  <XeryusTC> what was the last time that the yapf branch has been sinced to the trunk?
15:10:57  <glx> XeryusTC: after newstations
15:12:58  <peter1138> sinced?
15:13:15  <glx> synced :) I guess
15:13:22  <peter1138> oh, of course
15:13:56  <XeryusTC> glx guessed right :)
15:13:57  <Tobin> What's the amount of money a company has stored as? long (int whatever the base currency is)?
15:14:08  <Tobin> s/int/in/
15:14:19  <glx> compny value is int64
15:15:58  <glx> money and loan are int32
15:17:32  *** Mukke [] has quit []
15:17:55  <Tobin> Ah, ok.
15:19:09  <glx> hmm indeed money is int64 too :)
15:19:42  <Tobin> Dang.
15:20:05  * Tobin edits a forum post again
15:20:06  <Tobin> :)
15:20:34  <glx> just check player.h :)
15:21:02  *** Mukke [] has joined #openttd
15:21:38  <Tobin> Heh, I'm so tired that the source wouldn't help me much. :)
15:22:03  <glx> it's just a header, easy to read
15:22:22  <peter1138> like openttd.h ;)
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15:24:11  <valhallazzzw> ..omg
15:24:38  *** zen-- [] has joined #openttd
15:24:47  <Tobin> Night all.
15:25:02  <valhallazzzw> "US will get access to data retrieved by the European data retention"
15:25:05  <valhallazzzw> :|
15:25:20  *** Tobin [] has quit []
15:25:26  <glx> wtf?
15:25:41  <KUDr_wrk> XeryusTC: do you need new yapf sync?
15:26:01  <zen--> 047 gets desynced if 3 players connect at the same time
15:26:09  <XeryusTC> KUDr_wrk: not necesarilly, but it would be nice
15:26:22  <XeryusTC> im preparing to sync atm
15:26:24  <Kjetil> valhallazzzw: hush.. FBI is watching
15:26:34  <KUDr_wrk> XeryusTC: do you know that you can do it easily by yourself?
15:26:55  <XeryusTC> KUDr_wrk: yes, im doing that atm :)
15:26:59  <KUDr_wrk> ok
15:27:11  <Kjetil> valhallazzzw: where did you read that ?
15:27:23  <valhallazzzw> Kjetil:
15:27:26  <Kjetil> thanks
15:27:42  <valhallazzzw>
15:27:47  <XeryusTC> i just needed the rev no
15:30:13  <glx> XeryusTC:
15:30:29  <XeryusTC> glx: i already found it, thanks anyways :)
15:33:23  <glx> XeryusTC: 4832 is not in 4833 sync though
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15:50:55  <Dr_Jekyll> uuuhhh
15:51:01  <Dr_Jekyll> here are u ;)
15:51:05  <Dr_Jekyll> hi @all
15:52:43  <Dr_Jekyll> !recognize bots
15:52:57  <Dr_Jekyll> hm...
15:55:54  <Jango> response
15:57:40  * Prof_Frink is now known as Mr_Hyde
15:58:35  <Dr_Jekyll> ;)
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15:59:18  <Dr_Jekyll> somebody know a german forum about ottd?
15:59:27  <Jango> babelfish!
16:00:08  <Prof_Frink> There's a german TTD forum... TTDXHQ or something
16:00:08  * Dr_Jekyll kicks !babelfish to the trashcan
16:00:38  <Dr_Jekyll> it's straining me to read english for me
16:00:39  <Prof_Frink> They probably have an oTTD section
16:00:50  <Dr_Jekyll> nope, i know this site
16:02:59  <Dr_Jekyll> strike, found an option to limit the search just to the ottp section - this would make something easier
16:03:39  <Dr_Jekyll> but it's still english
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16:16:15  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newsounds!
16:16:31  <peter1138> lies
16:16:42  *** ector-- [] has joined #openttd
16:16:58  <peter1138> it's quite nice ;p
16:17:27  *** znikoz [n=1@] has joined #openttd
16:18:34  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! ${unimplementedttdpatchfeature}!
16:19:03  <Kjetil> peter1138! bugs!
16:20:04  <Vornicus> peter1138!  have a beer!
16:21:46  <Jango> peter1138! cargopackets!
16:21:48  <Jango> :P
16:21:56  *** Jango [] has quit ["Using KVIrc 3.0.1 'System Virtue'"]
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16:28:18  <peter1138> heh
16:28:23  <peter1138> newsounds is implemented
16:28:35  <Born_Acorn> tis?
16:28:37  <Born_Acorn> woo.
16:28:41  <peter1138> except for some events
16:28:43  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! 2CC!
16:28:50  <peter1138> so's that. hmm.
16:28:55  <peter1138> but you said it was slow :(
16:29:09  <Born_Acorn> What did I say was slow?
16:29:17  <peter1138> 2cc
16:29:20  <Born_Acorn> never.
16:29:26  <peter1138> i gave you a test build
16:29:34  <Born_Acorn> Yes, that was my computer.
16:29:42  <Born_Acorn> It did it with nightlies too.
16:29:48  <Born_Acorn> I found that out later.
16:29:48  <peter1138> oh
16:29:53  <Born_Acorn> I fixed it.
16:29:55  <Born_Acorn> and woo.
16:29:56  <peter1138> thanks for telling me :P
16:30:22  <Born_Acorn> No problem! I can tell you anytime.
16:30:26  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! Its not slow!
16:30:27  <Born_Acorn> see!
16:32:07  <Born_Acorn> You stopped working on it because you thought it was terribly and horribly flawed?
16:32:51  <peter1138> yes
16:32:53  <peter1138> it's your fault
16:33:04  <peter1138> you must feel the guilt
16:33:34  <Born_Acorn> I lost that, along with most feeling, in the war.
16:33:48  <peter1138> of '72?
16:34:04  <peter1138> i changed the gui though
16:34:09  <peter1138> it's got less brown now
16:34:12  <peter1138> i.e. none
16:35:52  <Born_Acorn> The war of 92.
16:37:28  <hylje> :<
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16:42:30  <Born_Acorn> When T.H.E. forces had to withdraw from the hard to find and eastern country, Fictuitiousalia.
16:49:50  <peter1138> was it a LION?
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16:53:15  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, were you serious when you said newsounds is implemented?
16:53:22  <peter1138> do-do!
16:53:24  <peter1138> whooooo!
16:53:31  <Born_Acorn> I just compiled the newest revision and nothing.
16:53:33  <Born_Acorn> No sounds.
16:53:36  <peter1138> yes
16:53:40  <peter1138> i haven't committed, lol@u
16:53:45  <Born_Acorn> (17:28:42) <peter1138> newsounds is implemented
16:53:47  <Born_Acorn> lies!
16:53:49  <peter1138> implemented!
16:53:51  <peter1138> in my patch!
16:53:52  <peter1138> muwahahah
16:53:59  <Born_Acorn> >:(
16:54:11  <peter1138> if i go home now, i might have it ready for the nightly
16:54:24  <peter1138> (but i doubt it)
16:54:44  <Born_Acorn> Go home now!
16:54:53  <Born_Acorn> Have it ready for the nightly!
16:54:54  <peter1138> oh, ok
16:54:56  <Born_Acorn> Don't doubt it!
16:56:18  * peter1138 > home (via shops ;p)
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17:02:47  <anboni> ok, i could use a little clarification here...
17:03:39  <anboni> i grabbed the UKRS newgrf and installed it in the nightly from 2 days ago.. Loaded a game that i started without UKRS, and i instantly had maglev available with 1 engine.. and this was in 1990
17:04:11  <anboni> then i started a new game, year 1950, and this didn't have maglev available at all, not even when i used the cheat to increase the date to 1990 again
17:04:34  <glx> it's better to start new game when you change grfs
17:04:40  <Born_Acorn> try pulling down the console and use "resetengines"
17:04:41  <anboni> anyone have an idea if i'm doing something wrong, and more importantly if i'll be getting screwed in the end?
17:06:57  <anboni> ok, resetengines in one of those savegames does have an effect.. i can still build maglev tracks, but there's no cars of engines available in 1950
17:09:11  <anboni> but now what i would really like is to have maglev available from 1950 :) i'm planning on building a huge network, but dont feel like starting with regular track and then having to upgrade to maglev later
17:10:15  <Mizipzor> anboni, cant you just start on a later date then?
17:11:02  <anboni> i could do that, but from what i understand, 2090 still is a pretty solid end of game
17:11:38  <Mizipzor> anboni, i think that must be easier to change than when the trains and stuff becomes avaliable... dont you think?
17:11:41  <anboni> but then, i could probably get around that by using the cheat to go back in time a few years each time i get near 2090
17:12:03  <XeryusTC> the finance window just screws up after 2090
17:12:19  <anboni> is that the only thing that goes foul?
17:12:42  <anboni> if so, that wouldn't really matter, since finance doesnt tend to be very interesting after the first few years anyway:)
17:13:26  <anboni> guess i'll be starting a game in 2015 or so then:)
17:14:17  <Mizipzor> i havent looked at a single line of code from this game... but it couldnt be all that hard to make a little if statement that set the time back 50 years when ever it gets to 2089 or something
17:14:31  <ledow> Isn't there a patch somewhere for 640bit dates or something stupid?
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17:14:38  <ledow> *64-bit
17:15:14  <ledow>
17:15:26  <ledow> "play starting from the year 0 till about the year 4 million, you can only select 0..5000 as start/end year"
17:15:45  <Kjetil> hahaha
17:16:09  <ledow> 4million years should be enough to get a decent network going
17:16:13  <anboni> lol
17:16:35  <anboni> bummer though, that diff probably wont apply on current sources
17:16:40  <anboni> and looks like it's a bit much to do manually
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17:17:11  <ledow> give someone a nudge to include it... that's what I do... annoy people until I get my way. :-)
17:17:18  <anboni> hehe
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17:18:15  <ledow> Blimey - an openttd game can last me all day as it is...  I should never apply that patch, I'll never finish a single game.
17:18:31  <anboni> lol
17:18:54  <anboni> imagine a 2048x2048 map with the game running from 2000 to 4000 :)
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17:47:05  <peter1138> pathfinders!
17:47:12  <peter1138>
17:47:12  <Mizipzor> woot_
17:47:32  <peter1138> any idea why my buses take that route? :p
17:47:38  <hylje> no
17:47:45  <hylje> regarding that
17:47:48  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newsounds!
17:47:53  <Mizipzor> maybe you accidently bought sightseeing buses?
17:47:57  <peter1138> lol
17:48:09  <hylje> could selected vehicles show their to-be-path
17:48:19  <hylje> or at least the first 5-10 tiles
17:49:53  <Ihmemies> would be too easy
17:50:01  <glx> peter1138: destroy the bridge :)
17:50:04  <peter1138> it works fine with npf, of course
17:50:24  <peter1138> but it's my pretty bridge ;)
17:50:46  <Ihmemies> who makes any other bridges trhan the fastest ones?
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17:53:47  <bringa_> Hi :) I've been looking around the wiki but couldn't find an answer to this: how easy or hard would it be to mess around with vehicle data, i.e. when they come out, speed, hp, price...
17:53:59  <bringa_> this wouldn't be for anything useful, just for my own amusement ;P
17:54:01  <peter1138> look for newgrf
17:54:05  * bringa_ nods
17:54:12  <bringa_> That's the idea I got in the wiki too
17:54:19  <bringa_> so I guess it's confusingly named ;P
17:54:23  <bringa_> bit more than just graphics
17:54:27  <bringa_> cool, thanks :)
17:54:30  <peter1138> it's a file format
17:54:38  <peter1138>
17:54:46  <peter1138> Action0 is what you want
17:55:03  <peter1138> (alternatively, you can muck about with the table source files
17:55:04  <peter1138> )
17:56:36  <bringa_> ah
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17:56:38  <bringa_> on the ttdpatch wiki
17:56:44  <bringa_> that's why I didn't find it on the openttd wiki ;P
17:57:44  <peter1138> indeed :)
17:58:23  <bringa_> should I put a link to that page on the ttdpatch wiki into ?
17:58:35  <bringa_> maybe someone else with the same question as me will be looking at that same place
18:02:12  <peter1138> if you want
18:02:48  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newsounds!
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18:27:43  <Sacro> evening all
18:27:46  <Markavian> evening
18:28:13  <Markavian> I'm back to 'testing' UKRS
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18:30:38  <peter1138> i do a lot of 'testing'
18:30:47  * Markavian comes up with an evil plan to generate cool a map using mini-IN's TerraGenessi patch and load using the latest nightly build + UKRS.
18:32:02  <brygge_2> peter1138: do you have any plans on support for 2company colers?
18:32:21  <brygge_2> colors*
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18:33:21  <peter1138> woohoo, deltic
18:34:27  <peter1138> an M-C DMU
18:34:31  <peter1138> +d
18:34:36  <peter1138> brygge_2: yeah, it's all written
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18:35:14  <brygge_2> peter1138: cool. when do you plan to merge it into the trunk?
18:35:32  <peter1138> when i've fixed the issue with tenders
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18:36:44  <brygge_2> peter1138: cool
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18:39:23  <Markavian> How about the terrain generator?
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18:40:19  <brygge_2> markavian: RichK is planning to get it included in version 5.0
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18:40:30  <Markavian> whens version 5.0 planned?
18:40:38  <XeryusTC> when it's done
18:40:51  <Mizipzor> wheres the site to these irc quotes?
18:40:51  <XeryusTC> and tgp is going to be included when richk returns
18:40:58  <Mizipzor> has stopped updating
18:41:01  <XeryusTC>
18:41:10  <XeryusTC> iirc
18:41:17  <Mizipzor> XeryusTC, thanks
18:41:23  <XeryusTC> np
18:41:50  <Mizipzor> hmm... nope... not that one :P
18:41:58  <Mizipzor> check the site youself ;) haha
18:42:48  <Markavian> dodgey link/site
18:43:31  <Markavian> nope, my evil planned failed
18:43:37  <Markavian> 'Uknown tag ...'
18:43:47  <Mizipzor> Markavian, you know the adress to it?
18:44:03  <Markavian> to what? ?
18:44:22  <brygge_2> markavian: i knew that you would fail..... i have tryed it before..
18:44:29  <Markavian> : (
18:44:44  <brygge_2> to bad it won't work
18:44:58  <Mizipzor> Markavian, i used to think was cool... but its said theyve stopped updating...
18:44:58  <Markavian> any way to generate cool maps outside of OpenTTD and load in?
18:45:01  <peter1138> 5.0 != 0.5
18:45:54  <Markavian> brygge mislead me
18:45:56  <Brianetta> It's two and a half times the reciprocal
18:46:04  <Brianetta> and that's a commutative statement
18:46:16  <Brianetta> I think
18:46:19  <peter1138> hmm
18:46:27  * peter1138 turns on sounds to hear the deltic
18:46:40  <Brianetta> Is that in the nightly?
18:46:46  <Brianetta> Does it rumble? (:
18:47:44  <Markavian> its sad, now that I've seen PBS, TerraGenesis and UKRS ... I want them all together at the same time ::sobs::
18:48:03  <Markavian> meanwhile I spend every other waiting moment musing over how brilliant Spore is going to be
18:50:19  <Markavian> memtest86 time
18:50:19  <Markavian> cya
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19:02:01  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newsounds!
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19:13:04  <Sacro> nah, Defcon is sooo much better than Spore
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19:28:33  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: you know pathfinders, yes?
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19:32:08  <valhallazzzw> defcon!
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19:52:23  <KUDr> peter1138: little bit
19:57:43  <Born_Acorn> peter1138! newsounds!
19:58:06  <peter1138> hurr
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19:58:45  <MeusH> hi
19:58:52  <KUDr> peter1138: what can I do for you?
20:00:50  <Born_Acorn> He wants you to tell him to commit newsounds!
20:01:51  <glx> KUDr: maybe about this (peter1138 don't understand some pathfinding)
20:02:17  <peter1138> and huh2
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20:02:41  <KUDr> glx: well - i can analyse it when i will be able to repro it
20:02:48  <KUDr> like savegame
20:03:02  <KUDr> or case description mabbe
20:03:06  <glx> KUDr: it's a peter1138 question
20:06:27  <KUDr> glx: did you also experience something similar
20:06:29  <KUDr> ?
20:06:49  <glx> I don't use bus very often
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20:17:47  <Sacro> anyone here any good with mod_rewrite?
20:17:59  <SpComb> possibly
20:18:05  <Sacro> SpComb: pm ?
20:18:12  <SpComb> no
20:18:17  <SpComb> other possibility is #apache
20:18:17  <Sacro> d'oh
20:18:20  * SpComb hates pms
20:18:21  <hylje> what do you need
20:19:01  <Sacro> help with mod_rewrite
20:19:36  <Sacro> hylje: pm?
20:20:18  <SpComb> would anyone mind if you discussed it here..
20:20:27  <hylje> state your question
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20:20:38  <Sacro> well pastebin is reeeeeeeeeeeeealy slow
20:20:45  * Sacro goes for it
20:20:50  <Sacro> my .htaccess contains
20:20:50  <Sacro> RewriteEngine   on
20:20:50  <Sacro> RewriteBase     /public_html/hosting/ben_woodward/
20:20:50  <Sacro> RewriteCond     %{REQUEST_FILENAME}     -d
20:20:50  <Sacro> RewriteRule     ^(.+[^/]+)$              /  [R]
20:20:51  <Sacro> RewriteRule     .*/railsfun/(.*) [L,R]
20:20:52  <Sacro> #Else Slash Detected
20:20:54  <Sacro> RewriteRule (.*) [L,R]
20:21:04  <glx> Sacro: be careful :)
20:21:15  <Sacro> gtg, never mind
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20:25:50  <peter1138> svn down?
20:26:02  <MiHaMiX> hmm
20:26:37  *** tokai [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
20:26:44  <MiHaMiX> no, it's up
20:27:30  <peter1138> dns broken then
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20:27:31  <peter1138> o_O
20:27:34  *** Trippledence__ [] has joined #openttd
20:27:37  <MiHaMiX> hmm
20:27:44  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
20:27:52  <MiHaMiX>         A
20:28:01  <SpComb> ja?
20:28:08  <MiHaMiX> SpComb: ?
20:28:16  <SpComb> Name:
20:28:16  <SpComb> Address:
20:28:20  <peter1138> working now
20:28:28  <MiHaMiX> ok
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20:34:01  <MeusH> hi Bjarni
20:34:34  <glx> wb Bjarni
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20:37:17  <Bjarni> :)
20:37:27  <Bjarni> so is my presence needed?
20:37:45  <Bjarni> did you survive my absence?
20:37:55  * MeusH looks at himself
20:37:57  <MeusH> yeah I did
20:38:01  <MeusH> :P
20:38:06  <Bjarni> if somebody says no and no, then I returned too late
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20:40:18  <Bjarni> hmm
20:40:30  <Bjarni> is this the official idle channel night or something?
20:40:58  <SpComb> nope
20:41:00  <hylje> yes
20:41:00  <hylje> !
20:41:01  <SpComb> that's #idlerpg
20:41:37  <hylje> im lvl 77 in idlerpg
20:41:47  <Bjarni> [22:40] 	<Bjarni>	is this the official idle channel night or something?
20:41:48  <Bjarni> [22:40] 	<SpComb>	nope
20:41:48  <Bjarni> [22:40] 	<hylje>	yes
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20:42:16  <Bjarni> now that makes you wonder why SpComb feels that nobody wants to talk to him
20:42:29  <Bjarni> actually it explains it
20:42:38  <SpComb> hylje: I have about 40 days worth of 'Day changed to xx xxxx' in what used to be my idlerpg window
20:43:05  <SpComb> hmm?
20:43:15  <hylje> im still lvl 77 in idlerpg.
20:43:47  <SpComb> I'm *far* mode idle in my idlerpg than you are
20:43:58  <hylje> my idle is more idle than your idle
20:44:11  <SpComb> I'm so idle I haven't even logged in
20:44:20  <SpComb> I'm so idle I never even joined the channel
20:44:48  <Jpl_> I'm so idle I haven't ever said anything even IRL
20:44:57  <SpComb> who cares about irl...
20:45:08  <Bjarni> ok, just read the rules for #idlerpg
20:45:08  <Prof_Frink> I'm so idle, I can't be bothered to idle.
20:45:11  <SpComb> hmm, you are quite idle here, I must say
20:45:19  <hylje> you fail at idling
20:45:22  <Bjarni> that's the stupidest idea ever
20:45:32  <Bjarni> it's a waste of resources
20:45:38  <SpComb> not really
20:45:41  <SpComb> It's wonderful
20:45:46  <SpComb> the most exciting game ever
20:45:47  <Bjarni> both when it comes to hardware and power conservation
20:45:47  <MeusH> idleness
20:45:54  <MeusH> the fellowship of the idleship
20:45:55  <hylje> idlerpg is an anti-game
20:46:21  <hylje> you aim at doing nothing at all
20:46:26  <Bjarni> how many tons of coal is used on computers, that are turned on all the time in order not to lose points?
20:46:28  <hylje> and be better in it than others
20:47:05  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: how much money does the train company make transporting that coal?
20:47:12  <Bjarni> ...
20:47:30  <Bjarni> it's actually pretty expensive to produce electricity
20:47:48  <MeusH> Bjarni: I'd say three wagons
20:47:57  <MeusH> anyway, it's sick
20:48:00  <MeusH> and you're right
20:48:00  <Bjarni> using a hair dryer 10 minutes a day, 6 days a week will use 15 tons of coal each year
20:48:03  <MeusH> that's a damn pollution
20:48:11  <hylje> im idlerpgin on a old laptop
20:48:21  <Bjarni> err
20:48:24  <Bjarni> kg, not ton :p
20:48:26  <SpComb> Bjarni: that's why you should shoever once every two weeks! Save energy!
20:48:30  <MeusH> lol Bjarni, I use a hair dryer once per two months :D
20:48:35  <Prof_Frink> Now, if they were doing something useful, like downloading .torrents, that's a different story
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20:48:46  <SpComb> perhaps they do both at the same time?
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20:48:54  <hylje> we require more vespene gas
20:48:54  <Prof_Frink> Nah
20:49:06  <Prof_Frink> computers can't do two things at once
20:49:09  <Prof_Frink> that would just be silly
20:49:31  <Bjarni> <MeusH>	lol Bjarni, I use a hair dryer once per two months :D <-- I don't even have one. I just let the hair dry naturally
20:49:39  <MeusH> hmm some would say their computer can both play mp3 and download stuff
20:50:00  <Prof_Frink> nonsense!
20:50:14  <Prof_Frink> I have one computer for each app I want to run!
20:50:15  <MeusH> Bjarni: I usually use a towel to dry it, or I put a towel on a cushion when I don't want to dry them, I just go sleep
20:50:16  <hylje> i irc and browse 4chan at the same time
20:50:22  <hylje> do i win ?
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20:50:47  * SpComb hates wet hair
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20:51:03  <MeusH> how nice it is to have a short hair
20:51:34  <hylje> .. or no hair at all?
20:51:42  <MeusH> that's too...
20:51:45  <MeusH> umm... bald
20:51:46  <Prof_Frink> You bald, bald man.
20:51:52  <hylje> actually
20:51:53  <MeusH> :P
20:52:06  <MeusH> gah, history exam tommorow. In 8 hours
20:52:11  <MeusH> sleep time for me
20:52:14  <MeusH> cya everybody
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20:54:46  <XeryusTC> i hate digging through mountains when you don't earn enough money :(
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20:56:35  <Bjarni> I wonder if this calculation is valid. A computer using 100 W, that is never turned off would need 421 kg coal/year
20:56:48  <Bjarni> sounds like a bit much
20:57:40  <Bjarni> so if it runs for 5 years and is scrapped due to being old, it will use 2 tons of coal
20:57:47  <XeryusTC> well, about 40% of the energy generated by burning the coal is used to produce electricity (IIRC)
20:57:54  <Bjarni> yeah
20:58:04  <Bjarni> well, that depends on the powerplant
20:58:14  <Bjarni> 40% is for western Europe
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20:58:27  <Bjarni> it's less in Eastern Europe
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20:58:44  <XeryusTC> give those powerplants a big kick then
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20:59:23  <Bjarni> some of them still use those stoker devices to add coal to the fire
21:00:03  <Bjarni> hopefully they are more advanced than when the first stoker device was used (1% efficiency)
21:00:10  <XeryusTC> i have no idea how a power plant works :P
21:01:41  <Bjarni> basically you generate heat to heat a boiler to make steam. You then move the steam through a turbine to make it rotate and you cool the steam back into water to add it to the boiler
21:01:43  <XeryusTC> this is weird, according to the finances window i have been losing money the last 15+ years, but i'm not actually loosing money
21:01:44  <Bjarni> that's it
21:01:59  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: i know that part, but not all the other details
21:02:09  <Bjarni> well, you also use the rotational movement in a generator to produce the electricity
21:02:49  <Bjarni> think of the stoker device as a mechanical fireman, who used a shovel to add big blocks of coal at once
21:03:41  <Bjarni> efficient powerplants burn coal dust, that they can pump into the fire box using compressed air. They also use the compressed air to ensure that the coal got enough oxygen to burn efficiently
21:04:58  <Bjarni> got it?
21:05:08  <XeryusTC> yes (:
21:05:31  <qball> hmmm I wonder
21:05:35  <qball> 100Wh
21:05:58  <Bjarni> that's pretty damn close to 0,1 kWh
21:06:00  <Bjarni> ;)
21:06:14  <XeryusTC> hehe
21:06:18  <qball> 100Wh*24*365 = 912,5 kw/y
21:06:30  <XeryusTC> actually, what you're doing is wrong Bjarni
21:06:38  <XeryusTC> it should be 0,100 kWh :P
21:08:04  <qball> 1 kWh
21:08:04  <qball>
21:08:05  <Bjarni> qball: I get it to 0,1*24*365=876
21:08:05  <qball> 0.123 kg coal equivalent
21:08:32  <qball> hmm true
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21:08:51  <XeryusTC> i get 0,1*24*7*52=873.6
21:08:52  <qball> 107kg/y
21:10:08  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:10:28  <Belugas_Gone> good night
21:10:38  <XeryusTC> hmm, reminds me, i have a chemics test tomorrow
21:10:41  <XeryusTC> night Belugas_Gone
21:12:16  <Bjarni> "The Australian Burning Mountain was originally believed to be a volcano, but the smoke and ash comes from a coal fire which may have been burning for 5,000 years" <-- never knew that before, but somehow I'm not surprised
21:13:20  <CIA-3> miham * r4874 /trunk/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
21:13:20  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-15 23:12:59
21:13:20  <CIA-3> croatian - 1 fixed by knovak (1)
21:13:20  <CIA-3> finnish - 1 fixed, 69 changed by lauri.kajan (70)
21:13:20  <CIA-3> french - 15 fixed, 4 changed by glx (19)
21:13:21  <CIA-3> norwegian - 7 fixed by brygge_2 (7)
21:13:23  <CIA-3> slovenian - 18 fixed by Sonicelo (18)
21:13:27  * XeryusTC throws some water on that fire (;
21:14:12  <MiHaMiX> swedish    - 16 fixed by ChrillDeVille (16)
21:14:12  <MiHaMiX> ukrainian  - 70 fixed, 5 changed by znikoz (75)
21:14:59  <MiHaMiX> finnish translator will be kicked in the ass.
21:16:41  <peter1138> oh?
21:16:49  <MiHaMiX> {STRING} -> {STRING1}
21:16:53  <peter1138> "oops"
21:17:08  <peter1138> shouldn't WT2 not allow them?
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21:18:05  <glx> svn takes time to answer
21:18:17  *** Mizipzor [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:18:58  <glx> indeed my fault (wrong dir)
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21:23:55  *** orudge [] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:24:44  <peter1138> heh
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21:26:29  <peter1138> well, it's slow for me
21:28:31  <MiHaMiX> Global I18N status: 92% (5141 bad strings out of 73052 strings)
21:29:14  <peter1138> sleepy time
21:29:15  <peter1138> night night
21:29:19  <MiHaMiX> gn
21:32:17  <MiHaMiX> gn too...
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21:54:08  <Sacro> evening people
21:54:20  <Sacro> right, anyone still around who knows about mod_rewrite
21:54:34  <valhallazzzw> nah
21:54:44  <Sacro> hmm
21:56:38  <XeryusTC> Sacro: a tiny bit
21:57:05  <Sacro> XeryusTC: can i PM you?
21:57:12  <XeryusTC> sure
21:57:29  <XeryusTC> bit i probably cant help if it is too complicated
21:58:37  <Sacro> lol, well any help is better than none
22:02:53  <Bjarni> wtf is mod_rewrite?
22:03:39  <Sacro> Bjarni: apache module for rewriting incoming URLS
22:03:56  <Bjarni> ahh
22:04:10  <Bjarni> don't look at me for that one
22:04:28  <XeryusTC> mod_rewrite can be quite usefull at some times
22:04:39  <Bjarni> most likely
22:04:45  <hylje> in practice its used to "clean up" urls
22:04:45  <Bjarni> I just don't know it
22:05:24  <Sacro> i cant get my head around it
22:05:36  <hylje> like domain.tld/foo.php?bar=42 -> domain.tld/foo/bar/42
22:05:39  <XeryusTC> i use it to clean up, and to redirect sertain urls to ther sites without using php
22:05:52  *** warer [] has joined #openttd
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22:06:07  <Sacro> im trying to setup a ruby on rails application, but I dont have use of the public_html/* folder
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22:10:12  <XeryusTC> omfg no, my radio is producing static while my favorite show is on :(
22:10:57  <Bjarni> goodnight
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22:16:34  <Abibioboi> interesting
22:16:51  <Sacro> what is?
22:17:04  <Abibioboi> xchat
22:17:10  <hylje> k
22:18:09  <Abibioboi> anyone has an idea why vmware has such ugly widgets after a restart?
22:18:22  <Abibioboi> it's like it's using motif or something instead of the gtk+ it had before the install
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22:23:32  <Abibioboi> sorry peter1138 this linux reinstall got me a bit busy to do any real work today
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22:25:09  <glx> Abibioboi:  OTTD_PRINTF64 (debug.h) is your work right?
22:25:26  <Abibioboi> hmm the %lll and % other one?
22:25:41  <glx> yes
22:25:48  <glx> it's wrong for mingw
22:26:23  <Abibioboi> ah so mingw is trying to be smart :s
22:26:30  <glx> should be the same as msvc because same runtime
22:26:57  <glx> the problem is indeed in msvrct.dll :)
22:27:53  <Abibioboi> ah... :)
22:27:57  <Abibioboi> can you add it to the ifdef?
22:28:17  <glx> <-- like this ?
22:28:51  <Abibioboi> well if that works, yes :)
22:29:06  <glx> ok I'll do it :)
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22:31:01  <SchAmane> Abibioboi, do you have updated vmware or gtk+ ? it falls back to gtk+ 2.4.0 and to default theme
22:31:21  <Abibioboi> I am finding out which gtk I have and what I am missing ;p
22:32:13  <SchAmane> if you find out how to make vmware use installed gtk+, please let me know
22:32:30  <CIA-3> glx * r4875 /trunk/debug.h: - Fix: %ll don't work with mingw (msvrct.dll problem)
22:33:08  <Abibioboi> SchAmane: you're of a big help....
22:33:08  <Abibioboi> :)
22:33:19  <SchAmane> =]
22:33:22  <Abibioboi> let Darkvater do all the work...sure
22:33:23  <Abibioboi> bah
22:34:01  <SchAmane> Abibioboi, i think you would need compile libsexy
22:34:07  <SchAmane> and something else also
22:34:17  <Abibioboi> I have libsexy
22:34:29  <hylje> All Your Dependency Are Belong To Us
22:34:39  <SchAmane> there is one another lib for extended widjets
22:34:48  <SchAmane> hylje, :o)
22:35:31  <Abibioboi> goddamn
22:35:41  <Abibioboi> fuckin' vmware..just tell me what lib you're missing
22:36:04  <Abibioboi> tfarago@arrakis:/usr/bin> ldd /usr/lib/vmware/bin/vmware | grep found
22:36:04  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:04  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:04  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:04  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:04  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:06  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:09  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:11  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:13  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:15  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:17  <Abibioboi> => not found
22:36:19  <Abibioboi> (sorry)
22:36:23  <Abibioboi> ok which one could it be?
22:36:34  <Abibioboi> brb, I like irssi more
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22:36:42  <SchAmane>  libview
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22:36:50  <SchAmane> thats what i was meaning
22:36:56  <SchAmane>  libview
22:36:56  <Darkvate1> ok
22:36:59  <Darkvate1> I have libview
22:37:05  <SchAmane> => not found
22:37:28  <Darkvate1> hmm
22:37:45  <Darkvate1> but libview is an extension to the widget system by vmware
22:37:53  <Darkvate1> I don't think it wouldn't work without
22:37:59  *** Darkvate1 is now known as DarkSSH
22:38:08  <DarkSSH> with suse 9.3 it worked nicely out of the box
22:38:22  <DarkSSH> although I didn't delete that many gnome crap that time ;p
22:39:24  <SchAmane> >>> Merging x11-libs/libsexy-0.1.8 to /
22:39:36  <SchAmane> >>> x11-libs/libsexy-0.1.8 merged.
22:41:31  *** tokai|noir [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
22:42:20  <SchAmane> >>> dev-cpp/libsexymm-0.1.5 merged.
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22:46:01  <DarkSSH> hmm
22:46:18  <DarkSSH> if you don't have the appropiate libraries, vmware uses its own, which is in /usr/lib/vmware/lib
22:46:20  * SchAmane got it running with actual gtk+ from system
22:47:02  <DarkSSH> how?
22:48:07  <SchAmane> emerging all needed libraries
22:48:24  <DarkSSH> which ones?
22:48:54  <SchAmane> libxsexy
22:48:59  <SchAmane> libsexymm
22:49:12  <SchAmane> and libview
22:49:28  <DarkSSH> hmm
22:49:39  * DarkSSH doesn't have libsexymm in yast :s
22:49:57  <SchAmane> gentoo rules
22:50:01  <SchAmane> i need go out
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23:08:08  <CIA-3> glx * r4876 /trunk/console_cmds.c: - Fix: company value is an int64, so display it correctly in 'players' console command
23:13:54  <Sacro> nn all
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