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00:01:08 *** Hallo [n=me@i251.fem.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:01:41 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 00:10:16 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-33-52.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 00:10:58 <Sacro> anyone here? 00:12:11 <izhirahider> I'm still here 00:12:42 <Sacro> http://www.benwoodward.me.uk/downthedrain.html :) 00:14:50 <izhirahider> nice, although I don't really have the time 00:15:00 <izhirahider> I don't know the town though too 00:16:03 <Sacro> i know bits of the city, but im just a HTML coder with spare time 00:16:15 <Sacro> shame that the darn host shoves my whole page into a frame 00:20:32 *** Forexs- [n=forexs@62.199.150.132] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:27:29 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-33-52.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 00:27:44 *** Born_Acorn [n=bornacor@AC8F0B18.ipt.aol.com] has quit [] 00:33:50 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176118226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.12/20050915]"] 00:55:26 *** fusee [i=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has joined #openttd 01:15:43 *** fusey [i=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:15:43 *** fusee is now known as fusey 01:55:52 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Bye!"] 02:15:30 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:25:04 *** ernie_hh [n=ernie@c198133.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:15:41 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B831D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 03:19:58 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x53589070.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:26:11 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B81593.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:41:36 *** Smoky555 [i=grc076lz@sagitta.internal.vlink.ru] has joined #openttd 03:46:04 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 04:06:26 *** roboman [n=Leo@c211-30-120-103.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:06:56 <roboman> hello 04:08:27 *** fusee [i=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has joined #openttd 04:26:17 *** fusey [i=fusion@220.142.171.66.subscriber.vzavenue.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26:17 *** fusee is now known as fusey 04:50:35 *** CobraA3 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:18:27 *** dp [n=dp@p54B2D2BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:28:33 *** Xeryus|sleep is now known as XeryusTC 05:33:58 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2D218.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:33:59 *** dp is now known as dp-- 05:53:59 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 05:53:59 *** Trippledence [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:10:19 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@125.23.8.19] has joined #openttd 06:17:14 <Celestar> morning 06:18:38 <Aankhen``> Morning. :-D 06:19:05 <peter1138> hi 06:19:35 * Aankhen`` faints from all the attention. 06:20:02 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 06:20:41 <Celestar> peter1138: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/182 <= did you have a look at that? 06:21:03 <Celestar> peter1138: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/168 <= and this (does it occur in 0.4?) 06:22:20 <peter1138> 182: fixed in r4964 06:22:33 <peter1138> 168: probably exists, but not going to fix 06:23:25 <Celestar> 182: when I load the savegame in question, the train still uses rather random paths, why is that? 06:23:28 <Celestar> 168: explain 06:23:30 <Celestar> ;) 06:24:57 <Celestar> 182: with NPF, the train always plans over the bridge ... 06:28:13 <peter1138> 182: no idea, but without r4964 it always takes the long way 06:28:24 <peter1138> 168: it's a bug in the grf file 06:28:31 <peter1138> 168: as my comment states 06:29:01 <Celestar> ok 06:29:11 <Celestar> but I'll investigate 182 a bit further k? 06:31:33 <peter1138> fine by me 06:31:58 <Celestar> ;) 06:32:06 <Celestar> because it drives me kinda nuts in bridge/ 06:51:45 *** RoySmeding_ [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:56:34 *** CmdKewin [n=cmdkewin@212.243.72.197] has joined #openTTD 06:57:22 <Celestar> .oO(why do people keep yelling that AMD should increase their L2 cache sizes?) 06:58:01 <Smoky555> does anybody use last MiniIntegratedBuild ? 06:59:13 <[Shaman]> eh? even more? 06:59:27 <[Shaman]> Celestar: My amd got 1mb L2 cache... seriously increasing it would be nutters? 06:59:33 <Celestar> well, now that Intel goes up to 4MB 06:59:55 <[Shaman]> Smoky555: I use the 4917 build. 07:00:04 <[Shaman]> Celestar: /me shrugs 07:00:07 <[Shaman]> keeping up is good 07:00:08 <Celestar> but considering that, on AMD, the difference between 512k and 1M is < 2% for apps, and ~5% for games ... 07:00:23 <Celestar> I don't see much benefit from a larger cache 07:00:33 <Smoky555> [Shaman]: do you have troubles with PBS signals? 07:00:46 <[Shaman]> PBS signals being? 07:01:00 <[Shaman]> (I don't use signals that much, my tracks are perfect and therefore don't need them xD ) 07:01:18 <Celestar> ^^ 07:01:23 *** RoySmeding_ [n=Roy@c514451cb.cable.wanadoo.nl] has quit ["kthxbye"] 07:02:10 <Smoky555> my russian-speaking users from ttdrussia.net love this signals, but PBS didn't work well :( 07:02:25 <[Shaman]> PBS signals being the pre-station ones? 07:02:56 <Smoky555> yes, and on crossroads without bridges ... 07:03:41 * [Shaman] shrugs 07:04:18 <[Shaman]> there's quite a few bugs in 4917, I'm sure the next mini_IN release will be less buggy 07:04:37 <Smoky555> i hope :) 07:05:36 <Celestar> peter1138: this is surely weird 07:05:58 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:06:11 <[Shaman]> Celestar: The benefit 1mb > 4mb would be the same as 512 > 1mb. 07:06:18 <Celestar> [Shaman]: likely 07:06:34 <Celestar> but considering the die size increase ... 07:09:17 <peter1138> hmm 07:09:47 <Celestar> somehow one might think that the pathfinder should always give the same result for a given situation 07:09:54 <Celestar> unless you have uninizialized variables :S 07:10:34 *** ShadowJK [n=jk@208.53.150.226] has joined #openttd 07:12:51 * Celestar thinks that OPF/NTP needs to go 07:15:01 *** Wolfy [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:15:23 * peter1138 notes that YAPF is massive in comparison 07:15:28 <peter1138> but if it works better... 07:16:12 <blathijs> Celestar: well, there should be a certain randomness in the pathfinder I guess 07:16:29 <blathijs> Celestar: if two paths are exactly as long, you want both to be used 07:16:41 <Celestar> blathijs: they are not both as long .. 07:16:46 <Celestar> one is significantly longer 07:16:55 <blathijs> that it should always take the shorter one 07:17:03 <Celestar> well, NTP doesn't 07:17:08 <blathijs> weird 07:17:13 <blathijs> I see no reason why not 07:17:19 <Celestar> neither do I 07:17:23 <blathijs> are you sure the situation is the same? 07:17:26 <Celestar> yes. 07:17:30 <blathijs> (things like signals etc) 07:17:37 <Celestar> bug report 182 07:17:51 <Celestar> blathijs: I have some problems debugging NPF in bridge/ You feel like assisting? 07:18:16 <blathijs> Celestar: I had plans for this morning, but those involve coding on my laptop 07:18:21 <blathijs> so I'll be around 07:18:25 <Celestar> ok 07:18:31 <Celestar> I'll first stab at it myself 07:18:38 <peter1138> yapf has a lot of code in header files. tum te tum 07:18:45 <blathijs> but first I'm gonna get some breakfast and stuff like that 07:18:51 <Celestar> peter1138: C++ / STL 07:19:03 <blathijs> Celestar: 182 is closed, right? 07:19:05 <peter1138> it's standard to have lots of code in header files? 07:19:12 <Celestar> blathijs: no that I know of .. 07:19:17 <peter1138> 182 is closed 07:19:23 <Celestar> peter1138: from the little I know about templates, yes. 07:19:35 <peter1138> 182 is not the cause of the random paths 07:19:38 <peter1138> damn 07:19:41 <peter1138> it's so... ugly 07:19:57 <blathijs> do you have a simplified example of those random paths? 07:19:59 <Celestar> you think so? 07:20:07 <blathijs> or only an in the wild savegame? 07:20:09 <Celestar> blathijs: open report 182 and use the savegame in there :) 07:20:15 <Celestar> it's not much track :) 07:20:29 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/182 07:21:01 <Celestar> peter1138: C++ is not C with objects ... 07:21:39 <peter1138> Celestar: i get random paths with no bridge in site 07:21:58 <peter1138> err 07:21:59 <peter1138> sight too :) 07:22:03 <Celestar> yeah 07:22:06 <blathijs> hmm 07:22:06 <blathijs> wtf 07:22:11 <Celestar> I'm wondering why. 07:22:31 <blathijs> Celestar: it means it can't find the destination I think 07:22:49 <Celestar> it cannot be THAT difficult to find the destination, right? 07:22:53 <blathijs> since it will take a random direction only if the paths are just as long or there is no path 07:23:08 <blathijs> perhaps something was changed in the way waypoints are stored or something? 07:23:38 * peter1138 notes that debug_level ntp is... note very useful 07:23:56 <Celestar> er 07:24:11 <Celestar> blathijs: when I add the depot to the order list, it works properly 07:24:32 <Celestar> it seems there's some fuckage somewhere else 07:24:35 <peter1138> blathijs: it's random for stations too 07:24:46 <Celestar> peter1138: that's because it plans "through" the depot 07:24:58 <blathijs> briljant comment: // blaha 07:25:13 <peter1138> Celestar: i added the depot, and it's still random 07:25:22 <Celestar> er ... not for me :o 07:25:29 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:25:56 <Celestar> this reversing in waypoints is going on me bugg 07:25:58 <Celestar> butt* 07:26:29 <blathijs> hmm, it seems that not finding a destination won't cause randomness 07:26:38 <blathijs> it should just take the first route 07:26:55 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/184 <= that seems related 07:26:58 <Celestar> open that savegame please 07:27:29 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/random.sav 07:27:56 <Celestar> behavior in 184 is correct with NPF 07:28:37 <Celestar> yeah it appears random 07:29:05 <Celestar> maybe that problem occured with r4150 ? 07:29:33 <peter1138> heh 07:29:36 <peter1138> test 4149? 07:30:56 <blathijs> peter1138: I've just observed random behaviour with pre-4150 07:31:08 <blathijs> (some compile I don't know the rev number of) 07:31:10 <peter1138> good :) 07:31:25 <peter1138> because debugging 4150 is not nice 07:32:02 <Celestar> 4149 has the same problem 07:32:04 <blathijs> hmm, maybe not, it was 4649 already 07:32:12 <Celestar> just tested it 07:32:20 <Celestar> (with only reverting pathfind.c) 07:33:17 *** Wolfensteijn [n=wolf@a61229.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:34:50 <Celestar> peter1138: blathijs: same randomness occurs in branch/0.4/ which doesn't have elrails merged 07:36:14 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:36:32 *** mikl [n=mikl@pdpc/supporter/active/mikl] has joined #openttd 07:37:14 * Celestar goes trying 40xy 07:39:44 <Celestar> er WAIT 07:40:30 <blathijs> hmm? 07:40:40 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B801C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:41:27 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-3365.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 07:42:03 <Celestar> nah, false alarm 07:43:24 <Celestar> uh huh 07:43:30 <Celestar> people check this out please 07:43:40 <[Shaman]> o_O 07:43:55 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/ntpdepot.sav 07:44:13 <Celestar> this may be #184-related 07:45:06 <Celestar> comments? 07:45:16 * Celestar goes filing a bug report 07:45:16 <[Shaman]> which build save? 07:45:40 <Celestar> post 4757 07:46:55 <[Shaman]> they both be going in circles :o 07:47:30 <[Shaman]> but not turning around at least :p 07:48:39 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: It sees that in the 182 savegame, the train can't find the waypoint 07:48:52 <Celestar> ? 07:49:08 <blathijs> and since both routes come just as close, it might choose randomly between them I guess 07:50:28 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B831D9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:50:35 <Celestar> blathijs: check the savegame I gave above 07:53:21 *** DarkSSH [n=tfarago@tin.liacs.nl] has joined #openttd 07:53:24 *** mode/#openttd [+o DarkSSH] by ChanServ 07:53:39 <blathijs> Celestar: what am I supposed to see? 07:53:53 <DarkSSH> morning 07:54:01 *** mode/#openttd [-o DarkSSH] by DarkSSH 07:54:01 *** DarkSSH is now known as Darkvater 07:54:01 <Celestar> blathijs: the upper "circle" is random 07:54:03 <Celestar> the lower isn't 07:54:13 <blathijs> doesn't seem to be here 07:54:22 <[Shaman]> lower one goes in circles 07:54:22 <blathijs> ah 07:54:27 <blathijs> NPF was on? 07:54:29 <[Shaman]> upper one 'chooses' either straight or circles 07:55:07 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x535ca2d5.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 07:55:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 07:56:18 * Celestar detonates over pathfind.c:885 07:56:57 <Celestar> there'S some Random in there 07:57:18 <blathijs> yes, by design 07:57:27 <Celestar> but it only fires in one case, and not the other?! 07:57:49 <Celestar> blathijs: in the give savegame, both paths are NOT equal in length 07:58:02 <Celestar> one path is CLEARLY shorter and CLEARLY cheaper 07:58:06 <blathijs> yes, but the pathfinder can't seem to find its target for some reason 07:58:14 <blathijs> (not checked in your savegame yet) 07:58:17 <peter1138> how do you know? 07:58:22 <peter1138> it doesn't tell me anything... 07:58:34 <Celestar> peter1138: how do I what? 07:58:41 <blathijs> peter1138: gdb told me 07:59:16 <peter1138> ah, smart ;p 07:59:27 <peter1138> hmm, i have elwires showing through bridges o_O 07:59:31 <peter1138> (is that fixed in bridge/ ?) 07:59:36 <Celestar> "overflowed" 07:59:53 <Celestar> peter1138: not yet, but I have it in mind (sloped wire under bridge maybe?) 08:00:10 <Celestar> peter1138: once the fixed bounding boxes are committed 08:00:34 <Celestar> ok I'm stuck here with 3 PF problems 08:00:36 <peter1138> i thought it didn't show wires for rails one level below the bridge? 08:00:45 <Celestar> 2 NTP (see bug reports) 1 NPF (bridge) 08:00:49 <Celestar> peter1138: no, it shouldn't ... 08:00:59 <Celestar> peter1138: unless you have transparency on 08:01:15 <peter1138> heh, no 08:01:36 <Bjarni> I wonder if I should let autoreplace violate max train length 08:01:46 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/wire.png 08:02:06 <Darkvater> Bjarni: what about no? 08:02:11 <Bjarni> it would solve the issue somebody reported on the forum, where the new engine leaves the wagons behind 08:02:33 <Bjarni> Darkvater: you got a better idea? 08:02:35 <Celestar> peter1138: that is supposed to happen 08:02:51 <peter1138> supposed? o_O 08:03:23 <Celestar> well 08:03:35 <Celestar> not really, but I didn't properly take into account slopes yet :) 08:03:47 <Darkvater> Bjarni: yes, adhere to the maximum length restriction 08:04:03 <Celestar> do we have a maximum train length? 08:04:14 <Celestar> Darkvater: we have yet-another-bug in NTP 08:04:16 <Bjarni> yeah 08:04:19 <Bjarni> 101 units 08:04:23 <Celestar> WHY? 08:04:43 <Bjarni> but only 10 if you use some stupid patch setting I have wanted to remove for years 08:04:51 <Bjarni> Celestar: good question 08:05:11 <Darkvater> Celestar: what is it? 08:05:24 <Celestar> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/185 <= this one 08:05:25 <Bjarni> this is actually a rather good question: why do we even keep a max length? 08:05:30 <Darkvater> for MP 08:05:40 <Celestar> might be related to the Waypoint bug 08:06:04 <Celestar> blathijs: can you see whether NTP finds the destination in http://bugs.openttd.org/task/184 ? 08:06:10 <Darkvater> could be 08:07:24 <Celestar> Darkvater: it's both the same bug 08:07:35 <Celestar> NTP doesn't work when there are NO junctions in the network. 08:07:47 <Celestar> it's the reason for the randomness in 184 and 185 08:08:11 <Darkvater> why should it work when there are no junctions? 08:08:14 <Celestar> Darkvater: if you add a switch, into your straight rail, it works nicely 08:08:16 <Darkvater> there is only 1 path 08:08:23 <Darkvater> there is nothing to pathfind 08:08:36 <Celestar> I don't KNOW 08:08:42 <Celestar> I just know it happens 08:09:28 *** jong [n=jong@flipflip.student.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 08:09:38 <Darkvater> but what doesn't work? Surely you agree with me that if there are no junctions there is only *ONE* path to take and there is nothing to pathfind 08:10:05 <Celestar> well, not really. there's two paths, one in one direction, one in the other 08:10:24 <Celestar> because we seem not to have a non-reflective boundary condition ;) 08:10:47 <Darkvater> ? screenshot? 08:11:15 * blathijs smacks Celestar 08:11:19 <Celestar> Darkvater: hm? 08:11:24 <Celestar> blathijs: hm? 08:11:28 <Darkvater> I don't get what you are saying 08:11:30 <blathijs> Celestar: your ntpdepot.sav contains _another_ train :-S 08:11:42 <Celestar> blathijs: some AI? 08:11:55 <blathijs> I just spent my time wondering why the hell even the most basic "GetTracks" was wrong... 08:11:58 <blathijs> yes 08:12:02 <Celestar> blathijs: sworry 08:12:16 <Darkvater> screenshot plz about your theory Celestar ? 08:12:29 <Celestar> Darkvater: blathijs' gdb :) 08:13:15 <Celestar> Darkvater: have a look at CheckReverseTrain 08:13:36 * Darkvater has nothing here @work 08:13:50 <Celestar> if NTP doesn't find the destination, CheckReverseTrain ALWAYS returns "true" 08:13:54 <Darkvater> MiHaMiX: !! 08:14:03 <Darkvater> I wish he would fix up flyspray a bit 08:14:09 <Darkvater> it is getting really annoying 08:14:33 * Darkvater votes for going back to sourceforge 08:15:44 <Bjarni> why? 08:16:15 <Bjarni> I actually think that flyspray is better than SF, even through it's not perfect 08:16:16 <Darkvater> cause it sucks 08:16:22 <Darkvater> and it's not getting better 08:16:31 <[Shaman]> nothing is perfect :P 08:16:54 <blathijs> Celestar: hmm, randomizing the order of the stack seems a little silly in A* :-S 08:16:58 <Bjarni> maybe we should try a 3rd system them, because SF sucks 08:17:56 <Celestar> bugzilla? 08:18:03 <Darkvater> noo, not bugzilla 08:18:25 <Darkvater> I absolutely detest it it is so bad 08:18:41 <Celestar> Darkvater: I fail to see proper options then :P 08:18:52 <Bjarni> Darkvater: then what do you think since we already decided that we don't want SF 08:18:58 <Darkvater> get MiHaMiX to fix the most painful shortcomings of FS? 08:19:20 <Celestar> /opt/starcd/PROSTAR/3.26.003/linux_2.4-x86-glibc_2.3.2/bin/pro-xm: relocation error: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXm.so.3: symbol __strncpy_chk, version GLIBC_2.3.4 not defined in file libc.so.6 with link time reference 08:19:26 <Celestar> I love those error messages :S 08:20:17 <Bjarni> <Darkvater> get MiHaMiX to fix the most painful shortcomings of FS? <-- we should make a list of stuff to do to FS, maybe making a new "forum" in FS with FS bugs, wanted improvements 08:20:53 <Darkvater> I've already sent him an email with suggestions, wishlists a few weeks ago 08:20:57 <Darkvater> perhaps even a month 08:21:35 <Bjarni> if we use FS, then it would be easier to track AND he will not throw it out ;) 08:22:39 <peter1138> hello 08:22:53 <Celestar> hi peter1138 08:22:57 <Celestar> blathijs: any luck? 08:24:21 <Bjarni> ok, I removed the max train length thing since it didn't really made sense after we switched to a linked list of train consist anyway 08:24:37 <Bjarni> should I remove the patch setting for train length as well and commit it? 08:25:58 <blathijs> Celestar: not yet 08:26:03 <[Shaman]> maybe want to set a fixed length for multiplayer tho, Bjarni 08:26:14 <Bjarni> why? 08:26:20 <peter1138> Bjarni: try not to break old games :) 08:26:24 <qball> There is mantis, not sure how much it's better then 08:26:27 <qball> FS 08:26:35 <peter1138> mantis is fucking shit 08:26:40 <Bjarni> it will not break old savegames as trains can get longer, not shorter 08:26:43 <[Shaman]> Bjarni: 8 people, loads of BIG trains.. ottd won't be a happy bunny :P 08:26:52 <peter1138> Bjarni: i mean with the patch setting (they're saved too) 08:27:01 <Bjarni> ahh 08:27:04 <Celestar> a max train length setting is acceptable 08:27:31 <[Shaman]> I mean, the horror of having a full screen of 40+ size trains O_O 08:27:37 <Bjarni> but I just got a bug report telling that it fucked up autoreplacec :( 08:28:22 <Celestar> Bjarni: hwere? 08:28:58 <Bjarni> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25254 08:29:02 <peter1138> [Shaman]: mmm, lovely 08:29:19 <[Shaman]> peter1138: lovely indeed.. but i doubt low-end puters would like it :P 08:29:46 <peter1138> i don't think it would make much different 08:29:47 <peter1138> err 08:29:51 <peter1138> -t+ce 08:30:33 <[Shaman]> my lappy went tripping last night when i managed to put 48 trains in 1 screen 08:30:58 <Celestar> Bjarni: please place the bug in FS, and mark it for 0.4.8 08:35:21 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 08:37:31 <blathijs> Celestar: I'm giving up for now 08:37:41 <Celestar> blathijs: kk 08:37:55 <blathijs> Celestar: I've got company :-) 08:42:03 <Celestar> Bjarni: k? 08:43:25 <roboman> is it possible to make it so you can pin the client list window in multiplayer. The reason is you have ti have it open to be able to send messages to other people and sometimes the screen gets realy clutered 08:44:13 <Celestar> like make it sticky? 08:45:01 <roboman> yeah 08:47:45 <Celestar> should be doable 08:48:45 <peter1138> nah 08:48:48 <peter1138> you need an IM client 08:49:20 * roboman has one 08:49:31 <peter1138> built in, i mean 08:49:41 <[Shaman]> tbh the chat things nead a bit of a revamp :p 08:49:41 <Bjarni> <Celestar> Bjarni: k? <-- yeah (I was away for a moment) 08:50:06 <Vornicus> L! 08:51:24 <roboman> ah 08:52:20 <Darkvater> Bjarni: what do you have against max-train-length? Fix the bug, not remove it 08:52:51 <Bjarni> it's a tricky bug because it happens by design :( 08:53:02 <Celestar> max-train-length should be a clear patch setting 08:53:07 <Bjarni> I didn't think that somebody would actually limit trains to only 10 tiles 08:53:12 <Celestar> not something magic like "10" or "101" 08:53:18 <Bjarni> err, 10 units 08:53:21 <Bjarni> (5 tiles) 08:53:44 <Bjarni> 101 is likely the weirdest number that I have seen 08:54:00 <Darkvater> 43 08:54:31 <Bjarni> whatever 08:55:33 * Celestar votes for a clear patch setting 08:55:42 * Darkvater clears that patch 08:55:52 <Darkvater> whoa, look at that double meaning ^^ 08:56:12 <peter1138> Bjarni: do what i did for articulated engines 08:56:30 <peter1138> articulated parts don't count 08:56:44 <peter1138> so an engine with tender is only 1 08:58:16 <peter1138> might be the quick & easily solution: make the second head not count too 08:59:58 <peter1138> of course, then you can get 11 long trains, but... 09:01:43 <Darkvater> isn't the whole point of a large chunk of code to prevent that? 09:01:54 <Darkvater> your trains will stick out of stations, screw up the whole network 09:03:59 <Vornicus> max train length should come from max station spread. 09:04:00 <Bjarni> people should use the option to keep the length of autoreplaced trains for that 09:04:38 <Bjarni> otherwise you can end up with 5 tile long trains for 4 tile long stations and max length will not prevent that 09:05:00 <Vornicus> ...unless newstations makes it so you can make station tracks turn 09:06:00 <Darkvater> Bjarni: that is not the point. If people build 5-long trains they do not want to end up with 6-long trains because autoreplace is misbehvaing 09:06:59 <Bjarni> but it's not misbehaving if they just would use it 09:07:04 <Bjarni> it's well tested 09:07:17 <Darkvater> it is clearly misbehaving which is the bug-report is showing 09:07:35 <Darkvater> Bjarni there is no way to talk yourself out of this :) 09:07:41 <Bjarni> why can't I make a 10 unit long train? it set the limit to 9 o_O 09:08:33 <Bjarni> <Darkvater> it is clearly misbehaving which is the bug-report is showing <-- autoreplace works correctly, but it relies on CmdMoveRailVehicle(), which acts strange when getting near the max train length 09:08:57 <Bjarni> right now I can't even manually make a train with one engine and 9 wagons 09:09:01 <Bjarni> due to max length 09:09:04 <Bjarni> it should allow that 09:09:22 <Bjarni> or not 09:09:27 <Bjarni> why is the limit set to 9??? 09:09:35 <Bjarni> at least it should be 10, right? 09:09:45 <Bjarni> I mean, same length as a 5 tile station 09:10:31 <Darkvater> station length has *nothing* to do with max-train length 09:10:48 <Bjarni> and then your argument fails 09:10:58 <Darkvater> yes, you could see it that way, but it is completely independent 09:11:13 <Darkvater> no 09:11:24 <Darkvater> autoreplace fails with max-train-length set. period 09:12:15 <Bjarni> and this guy wants autoreplace to make a train that is one unit longer than max-train-length 09:13:17 <Darkvater> no he doesn't. he just wants to replace to a dual-head and it fails 09:13:41 <Bjarni> singlehead -> dualhead = 1 unit longer 09:14:07 <Darkvater> yes so autoreplace should trim it, just as it always does 09:14:13 <Darkvater> I don't see the big problem in this 09:14:40 <Bjarni> trimming happens in another function when the replace is complete 09:14:49 <Bjarni> this is by design and pretty hard to change 09:14:56 <Darkvater> so? It still needs fixing 09:15:38 <Bjarni> and I did find a solution: removing the weird max length of 9 units, but then you didn't like that 09:15:42 <Darkvater> saying 'oh it is such a difficult bug to fix, so it is actually not a bug because of such and such' is not really logical is it? 09:16:47 <Bjarni> I fail to see the point in max train length 09:17:35 <Darkvater> 10:26 < [Shaman]> maybe want to set a fixed length for multiplayer tho, Bjarni 09:17:41 <Bjarni> I always wondered about it. I mean once we got the ability to remove it, we just made a new limit with no reason in mac allocated memory or anything 09:18:09 <Darkvater> 10:05 < Darkvater> for MP 09:18:38 <Celestar> bbl 09:18:39 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has quit ["leaving"] 09:18:54 <Darkvater> and the fact that it's a hardcoded 9 doesn't make a diference at all. We can set it to 5 or 500 and you will still have the same problem 09:19:06 <Bjarni> then we should change it to a thing to save resources, which would allow multiheaded engines to count as one, which solves this 09:19:15 <Darkvater> hell even with it turned off autoreplace will fail if we have a 128-length train which is the absolute max 09:19:37 <Darkvater> multiheaded count as two since they take the place of two wagons 09:19:55 <Bjarni> yeah 09:20:55 <Bjarni> but if we set the limit based on "moveable units" (so a multiheaded pair counts as one), then autoreplace will not fail 09:21:06 <Bjarni> articualted engines already works like that 09:21:26 <Bjarni> Dm3 counts as one even through it's actually 3 full length units 09:21:41 <Bjarni> that is, when MB fixes the grf 09:22:08 <Bjarni> but proper articulated units only counts as one even when they are longer 09:22:19 *** wolf^_ [i=wolf@rev2.kamp.pl] has joined #openttd 09:23:49 <Bjarni> but I think we should set a limit based on computer resources and not some kind of "I prefer the trains to stay that length", so we can make tricks like that to avoid horrible bugs and still not really violate the length thing 09:24:49 <Bjarni> specially since if people use it to fit in 5 tile stations (and why aren't they allowed to use 6 or 7 tile stations?), they would get a problem with 4 pixel long wagons. They could only use half the platform 09:25:22 *** wolf^ [i=wolf@pld-linux/wolf] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:25:32 *** wolf^_ is now known as wolf^ 09:28:54 <Bjarni> I will go to get something to eat and that will also give you some time to give proper feedback on this: why keep max-train-length to a certain amount of units if we want the trains to fit on a certain station and there is no standard length of units anymore? 09:33:35 *** Jezral [n=projectj@jribenfors.plus.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:38:02 *** CmdKewin [n=cmdkewin@212.243.72.197] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:38:33 *** CmdKewin [n=cmdkewin@212.243.72.197] has joined #openTTD 09:38:47 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 09:39:20 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 09:44:36 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has quit ["leaving"] 09:47:59 <Darkvater> Bjarni: all I say, said and keep saying is control over game parameters in Multiplayer. 09:48:54 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 09:49:55 <peter1138> maybe it should just fail 09:50:37 <peter1138> i.e. check if its going from single -> multihead, and if there are already 10 parts, fail 09:50:56 <peter1138> (of course, then people will complain that autoreplace still doesn't work... 09:50:58 <peter1138> ) 09:51:46 *** Dred_furst` [i=nn@user-3365.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:52:06 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 09:56:06 <Darkvater> wb Celestar 09:58:00 <peter1138> n'est pas 09:58:00 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:58:09 <peter1138> hah 09:59:06 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-3365.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 09:59:10 <Darkvater> yah 09:59:28 *** Celestar_ [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 09:59:30 <Celestar_> argghh 09:59:37 <Celestar_> that wasn't my Svideo cable 09:59:57 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 10:00:11 <[Shaman]> lol 10:02:26 <Darkvater> oook 10:02:30 <Darkvater> easy mistake to make 10:02:52 <Darkvater> the shapes are like totally the same you know :P 10:03:07 <Celestar> it's dark under the desk 10:03:18 <Celestar> ok nvm 10:03:35 <Darkvater> and your svideo cable has a little clip/lip as well? ^_^ 10:03:45 <Darkvater> anyways 10:04:52 <Celestar> Bjarni: I still miss the bug report for 0.4.8 10:05:04 <Celestar> Darkvater: I didn't unplug the network cable 10:05:10 <Celestar> I tripped over the power cable 10:05:34 <peter1138> ah, you meant to trip over the svideo cable? 10:05:53 <Celestar> why don't you people stfu and go fixing bugs? ;> 10:06:24 <Darkvater> peter1138: rofl 10:15:23 <peter1138> do de do de dum 10:16:13 <Dred_furst`> is there a .patch or .diff file for yapf? 10:16:53 <Darkvater> Dred_furst`: just check out the yapf branch\ 10:17:01 *** Dred_furst` is now known as Dred_furst 10:17:02 <Dred_furst> hmm ok 10:17:09 <Dred_furst> then patch whatever i need from there? 10:18:29 <Dred_furst> any patches you reccomend? 10:20:18 <Darkvater> no just compile and run 10:22:40 <Dred_furst> willanything integrate with yapf? 10:23:41 <Darkvater> !whatis willanything 10:26:17 <peter1138> pbs won't, heh 10:27:15 <Dred_furst> Nor with terragenesis 10:27:28 <Dred_furst> Which machine does pathfinding? the server or the clients? 10:27:36 <peter1138> both 10:27:46 <peter1138> terragenesis should apply 10:28:05 <Dred_furst> It didnt with tortoise with the latest yapf svn 10:28:30 <Dred_furst> why doesnt the server do the poathfinding and no others? 10:28:45 <Celestar> because of too much network traffic 10:29:07 <Celestar> you'd have 100s of Kilobytes per second in large games 10:29:09 <Dred_furst> Its just a train identifier, and positions surely? 10:29:28 <blathijs> Celestar: It might just actually be worth it to send pathfinder choices over I would think? 10:29:45 <blathijs> since they have a very high CPU usage to actual result ratio 10:30:09 <Celestar> blathijs: theoretically this needs testing 10:30:10 <peter1138> would be a lot of data 10:30:11 <Dred_furst> because if you have a nice powerful PC hosting, things are good :) 10:30:32 <Celestar> only if you have a really phat pipe 10:30:39 <peter1138> and if there are randoms in the pathfinder (heh) it would mess up 10:30:51 <Dred_furst> because my friend's PC sucks at CPU power, we both have large networks now 10:30:55 <peter1138> might be okay for LANs i guess 10:31:21 <Dred_furst> and i reasoned if i am in 64bit linux ill have more processor power than him by far 10:31:37 <blathijs> dunno, it would be a couple of hundreds of pathfinds per second max I think? 10:31:43 <Celestar> blathijs: ok ... 10:31:47 <Celestar> 100 operations 10:31:53 <Celestar> each operation takes 6 bytes 10:31:53 <blathijs> around 8 bytes per pathfind? 10:32:01 <Celestar> 600 bytes per second .. 10:32:11 <Dred_furst> you could send purely the positions, the next positions and the reciever could interpolate the data? 10:32:42 <Celestar> position, track chosen 10:32:43 <Celestar> that's it 10:33:15 * Celestar still misses Bjarni's replace-bug report in FS 10:34:39 <blathijs> Celestar: perhaps just track chosen could do, the receiver knows which vehicles need pathfinding 10:34:54 <blathijs> might be a little less robust, but takes it down to 1 byte per operation 10:34:55 <Dred_furst> Celestar why track chosen? 10:35:10 <Dred_furst> you would need a vector actually and a pos 10:35:13 <Dred_furst> Bingo done 10:35:32 <Dred_furst> Interpolate data :) 10:36:08 <Dred_furst> 6 ints per train 10:36:16 <peter1138> 6 ints? 10:36:20 <Dred_furst> 6 integers 10:36:30 <peter1138> i mean how did you work that out? 10:36:39 <Dred_furst> wait less 10:36:42 <Dred_furst> 4 integers 10:36:47 <Dred_furst> sorry would be 6 10:36:54 <Celestar> one integer 10:36:55 <Dred_furst> 3 for position, 3 for vector 10:37:00 <peter1138> lol 10:37:01 <Celestar> position is known 10:37:09 <Celestar> trains tend not to move in z direction 10:37:23 <Celestar> length is not important 10:37:25 <Dred_furst> Up and down hills 10:37:31 <Celestar> => one integer needed 10:37:37 <Dred_furst> Hmm ok :P 10:37:38 * ledow images the amazing hovering train... 10:37:45 <Celestar> but the question of whether a vehicle drivers up a hill is not a question of pathfinding 10:38:01 <Celestar> but merely a question of the hill being there 10:38:02 <peter1138> 3 bits? 10:38:15 <Celestar> peter1138: 8 bits 10:38:22 <peter1138> you can only pick one track 10:38:23 <Celestar> I can'T imagine how to transmit 3 bits over a network 10:38:31 <peter1138> that's a total of 6 possible values. hmm. 10:38:39 <peter1138> even then not all are actually possible 10:38:56 <Celestar> it doesn't matter 10:38:59 <Celestar> you need 21 bytes per train 10:39:02 <Dred_furst> mine would be 16bytes per train 10:39:15 <peter1138> 21 now? 10:39:22 <Dred_furst> why? 10:39:26 <Celestar> peter1138: 20 for the IP header, 1 for the data :) 10:39:27 <Dred_furst> position and vector? 10:39:30 <peter1138> oh, hehe 10:39:44 <peter1138> well, you need some way of identifying the engine too 10:39:52 <Dred_furst> Very true 10:39:55 <Celestar> peter1138: see blathijs' comment 10:39:56 <peter1138> that's 2 bytes 10:39:58 <Dred_furst> 18 :) 10:40:02 <Celestar> the client knows which vehicle is pathfinding 10:40:23 <Dred_furst> Thats 87.8Kb of data for 5000 trains 10:40:27 <Dred_furst> Hmm 10:40:38 <Dred_furst> Sending that to like 8 clients would be... 10:40:39 <peter1138> Celestar: hmm, 'spose 10:40:42 <Celestar> not all 5000 trains do pathfinding within a given second 10:40:54 <Dred_furst> 703.12kb, looks like peeps were right :) 10:41:01 <Dred_furst> Celestar still gotta account for it 10:41:05 <Celestar> we could do distributed pathfinding. 10:41:30 <Celestar> ;) 10:41:38 *** Jezral [n=projectj@jribenfors.plus.com] has joined #openttd 10:41:46 <peter1138> distributed rendering 10:41:50 <Dred_furst> lol 10:41:59 <Celestar> ok back to the pathfinding BUGS .... 10:42:04 <Celestar> any news on those? 10:42:55 <peter1138> dunno 10:42:58 <peter1138> have you fixed 'em yet? 10:43:05 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 10:44:09 <Celestar> nope 10:44:20 <Celestar> because I dunno where the problem resides (yet) 10:44:59 *** BJH [n=chatzill@e176115017.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:47:01 <Dred_furst> Right, time to download fedora core 5 i386 for building a supercomputer 10:47:01 *** ShadowJK [n=jk@208.53.150.226] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:52:52 *** Smoky555 [i=grc076lz@sagitta.internal.vlink.ru] has left #openttd [] 11:00:50 <Celestar> back later 11:04:16 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-6906.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:04:25 *** Rexxie [n=rexxars@ti131310a080-6906.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 11:04:58 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:05:58 *** Celestar [n=Jadzia_D@galadriel.td.mw.tum.de] has joined #openttd 11:15:01 *** Gussoh [n=gussoh@82.197.255.9] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:21:28 <Celestar> root@niagara:[/]# psrinfo -pv 11:21:28 <Celestar> The physical processor has 32 virtual processors (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31) 11:21:40 <Celestar> I kinda like this 11:33:55 <HentaiXP> wtf 11:34:10 <HentaiXP> I mean is that yours,works, lease? 11:35:59 <Celestar> testbox 11:36:07 <Celestar> might purchase it as fileserver 11:36:17 <Bjarni> <Celestar> Bjarni: I still miss the bug report for 0.4.8 <-- well, I went to get something to eat as I said, and then stuff happened and I got delayed 11:36:45 <Bjarni> so I didn't touch the computer since I wrote that I left (wow, big surprise there) 11:36:49 <Celestar> wow 11:36:58 <peter1138> didn't touch a computer? 11:37:02 <peter1138> how did you survive? 11:37:04 <Celestar> damnit I'm wondering why servers still have 230V inputs 11:37:26 <Celestar> the whole rack system would be much more efficient with a 12, 24 or 48V DC supply :S 11:37:29 <peter1138> because you've got the wrong power supplies 11:37:42 <Bjarni> <peter1138> how did you survive? <-- no 11:37:54 <Bjarni> that is why my script took over 11:37:57 <peter1138> Celestar: you can get them 11:38:03 <peter1138> http://www.zantech.com.au/zantech/power-supply-atx-24v-dc/ 11:38:36 <Celestar> lol 11:38:40 <Celestar> 70% efficiency 11:38:43 <peter1138> yeah, heeh 11:40:36 <HentaiXP> Celestar, and I wish I could put together a dual opteron 250 setup 11:40:38 <HentaiXP> 240 11:40:56 <Celestar> HentaiXP: I have another test box here, Dual Opteron 254 11:41:56 <HentaiXP> I meant 240 in there, but dang man 11:42:08 *** SBT-Xchat [n=Tibeius@211-74-182-249.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 11:42:22 <Celestar> 240? they're not made (anymore) 11:43:01 <Celestar> You get 246s for about 150 bucks 11:43:10 <HentaiXP> I"m cheap 11:43:21 <HentaiXP> saw them on ebay for around 80-100 for two of them 11:43:24 <HentaiXP> 240 that is 11:43:32 <Celestar> that's decent 11:43:35 <Celestar> they might overclock well 11:46:43 * Celestar wonders how well the 35W Dual Core Athlons overclock 11:48:26 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 11:53:54 <Bjarni> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/186 <-- feedback needed 11:54:14 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B801C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 11:54:46 <Bjarni> I wrote the 3 solutions I came up with, so I want feedback on which one we should use or a 4th one 11:55:48 <[Shaman]> i like 3. 11:55:54 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:56:19 <[Shaman]> is there a way to 'speed up' the game in MP? :o 11:57:00 <Bjarni> no 11:57:08 <[Shaman]> k 11:57:15 <[Shaman]> would be funky if it were possible :P 11:57:18 <Bjarni> there used to be fast forward in MP, but it was a sure way to cause desyncs, so we disabled it 11:58:05 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 11:58:13 <Celestar> Bjarni: suggestion. make a patch setting for maximum train length 11:58:18 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:58:29 <Bjarni> yeah, that would be a logical next step 11:58:32 *** shintah [i=bebble@bebble.olf.sgsnet.se] has joined #openttd 11:58:54 <Bjarni> oh, I forgot to write that as a future plan of 3) 11:59:01 <Bjarni> but that is my plan 12:01:08 <Bjarni> Darkvater: do you have any feedback? 12:02:01 <Bjarni> or is it good enough that I got support of a shaman, which is always good here in our global tribal village 12:02:12 <[Shaman]> \e/ 12:02:15 * [Shaman] goes chant 12:05:31 <Bjarni> bah, I work on finding a solution to a problem Darkvater really wants to get fixed and then he leaves so he can't give feedback on the solution :| 12:06:02 <[Shaman]> at least there's a sollution ;) 12:07:50 <Darkvater> Bjarni: what is it? 12:08:02 <Bjarni> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/186 12:08:17 <Bjarni> placed somewhere, where everybody can read it 12:08:26 <Bjarni> best hiding place in the world :p 12:09:22 <Darkvater> why do you ask me? You already know my favour is 1) 12:09:24 <Darkvater> 2 is stupid 12:09:28 <Darkvater> 3 is even stupider 12:09:34 <Darkvater> computer resources.. 12:09:46 <Bjarni> it appears that everybody else is in favour of 3 12:09:52 <Bjarni> I like 2 12:09:57 <Darkvater> MP 12:10:00 <Bjarni> 1 is ugly code 12:10:03 <Darkvater> as said a zillion times before 12:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i like 3 12:10:47 <Darkvater> no 1 is the proper way to go 12:10:48 <Bjarni> it kind of is computer resources in MP, that is the turning point, right? 12:10:49 <peter1138> 1 already happens if it's enabled 12:10:59 <peter1138> Bjarni: i already stated the simple solution 12:11:05 <Darkvater> fix it so the train keeps its previous length no matter what the maximum train-length is set to 12:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> create a max. train length in tiles, not wagons 12:11:09 <peter1138> completely fail if it will produce a train that is too long 12:11:17 <peter1138> so you get left with the old engine 12:11:31 <Celestar> and issue a vehicle warning message ... 12:11:33 <peter1138> yeah 12:11:39 * Celestar prefers peter1138's option 12:11:45 <Bjarni> peter1138: no, because it tries to add the wagons, and then remove. Since it is too long "behind the screen", it completely fails to add the wagons at all and leaves them in the depot, hence the original bug report 12:11:47 <Celestar> so that you know when your capacity gets reduced 12:12:47 <peter1138> Bjarni: do the check before ever buying anything 12:12:52 <Celestar> we should release rc1 on the weekend, objections? 12:14:40 <Darkvater> I don't see what is so hard about this whole thing 12:14:45 <Darkvater> 1. you know maximum train length 12:14:45 <Bjarni> peter1138: so basically you want that if you got 8 wagons and disabled mammoth trains, then you can't autoreplace to multiheaded engines and you have to remove a wagon on each of them manually? 12:14:50 <Darkvater> 2. you know the actual train length 12:14:57 <Darkvater> 3. you know how long the new train is 12:15:11 <Darkvater> 4. you can *EASILY* calculate if it will fit and if not what to remove 12:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that can be tricky, if wagons are gonna be replaced also 12:15:48 <peter1138> Bjarni: yes, *or* enable the remove wagon option 12:16:15 <peter1138> Darkvater: yes, the thing is it should only remove if the wagon removal option is enabled 12:16:23 <peter1138> (imho) 12:16:31 <Darkvater> isn't that obvious from the start? 12:16:38 <peter1138> you've not stated it :) 12:16:49 <Darkvater> or you (bjarni) were under the impression that I wanted it otherwise? 12:16:55 <Darkvater> whatelse for is that option then? :) 12:16:56 <Bjarni> 5. max-train-length as it is now is stupid because it got little to do with length of the train because of newgrf short wagons. If they are half length, then you can with the engine fit a max length train in 3 tiles, but autoreplace it to fit 5 tiles with no objections from autoreplace 12:17:12 <Darkvater> shit boss-alert 12:17:16 <peter1138> max-train-length is number of wagons 12:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> which is stupid 12:17:26 <peter1138> indeed, it doesn't care about length 12:17:31 <peter1138> but it's not designed to 12:17:55 <Bjarni> yeah, not max train length as it was originally intended because all units had the same length at that time 12:17:59 <peter1138> even if it did, you'd still need to handle it explicitly when doing single -> dual head 12:18:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i vote for: max-train-length should be changed from wagons to (half)tiles, totally independent from this bug 12:20:13 <Bjarni> if I (as it is in my working copy right now) set dualheaded engines to count as one unit (just like articualted engines do now. Tenders don't count), then this problem would be gone and autoreplace could make a too long train and then after the replace is over, it checks the new length compared to the old one and removes wagons if needed 12:21:16 <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> i vote for: max-train-length should be changed from wagons to (half)tiles, totally independent from this bug <-- mow that's stupid as well, but less stupid 12:21:24 <[Shaman]> lol 12:23:12 <[Shaman]> what this mean anyways: dbg: pbs: (3) no nodes encountered (RV) 12:24:00 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 12:24:32 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:24:32 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 12:30:49 *** CobraA3 [n=Jeremiah@cpe-024-088-000-194.sc.res.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 12:30:50 <Bjarni> [Shaman]: it means what it said: the road vehicle didn't find any nodes 12:31:47 <[Shaman]> there are no road vehicles >_< 12:32:09 <[Shaman]> and all the trains have a direct path to their destination 12:32:55 <Bjarni> using YAPF? 12:33:07 <[Shaman]> NPF atm 12:33:14 <[Shaman]> had it disabled, turned it on, same error 12:33:15 <Bjarni> hmm 12:33:20 <Bjarni> weird 12:35:46 *** ThePizzaKing [n=thepizza@c211-28-155-182.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["And he disappears, like a fox, in the night."] 12:36:51 <hylje> xgl is cool 12:36:52 <hylje> :x 12:39:24 <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/Documents/JMF-2.1.1e/bin]> telnet niagaramgt <= didn't think I'd ever use this command again 12:42:43 <peter1138> Bjarni: RV = reverse 12:42:58 <peter1138> it's the stuck trains phenomenom 12:43:39 *** Hallo [n=me@i251.fem.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #openttd 12:44:20 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 12:44:32 *** HentaiXP [n=Justin@unaffiliated/hentaixp] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:51:00 * peter1138 watches outlook attempting to select 59978 messages in one folder 12:51:05 <peter1138> maybe that was a bad idea 12:51:22 <TheMask96> lol :) 12:51:25 <TheMask96> bad idea :) 12:51:41 <TheMask96> tell me in a few days if you succeeded ;) 12:51:47 <peter1138> it's Outlook 2007 Beta 12:51:57 <peter1138> i wanted to delete them all before running the indexer 12:52:15 <TheMask96> does it work better as the previous versions? 12:55:29 <peter1138> i don't know yet, i've not got very far :-) 12:55:32 <peter1138> it looks pretty 12:55:39 <peter1138> which is of course what you want from an email program... 12:56:48 <hylje> yes 13:04:29 <Celestar> peter1138: Instead of playing with some inferior email program, you should fix the pathfinder bugs *runs* 13:05:58 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Bjarni: RV = reverse <-- ahh, but it's stupid to use RV for two different things in the game 13:07:19 <Bjarni> <peter1138> it looks pretty <-- that's the MS way of doing things. "It looks pretty, but I don't know if the core of the app is any good" :p 13:07:22 * Bjarni hides 13:07:32 <peter1138> hehe 13:07:49 <peter1138> Bjarni: i did just write your autoreplace train length doodah 13:08:18 <Celestar> (gdb) break pathfind.c:666 13:08:21 <Celestar> hr hr 13:08:28 <Bjarni> what did you write? 13:08:55 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/replacelen.diff 13:08:57 <Bjarni> I got the one, that makes dualheaded engines one unit in this count, which fixes this issue 13:08:59 <peter1138> compiled but untested 13:09:57 <peter1138> TheMask96: it's selected them all... now to (force) delete 13:10:07 <Bjarni> ahh, like that 13:10:15 <Bjarni> already I don't like it :p 13:10:32 <peter1138> yeah, it won't work with wagon removal 13:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> is there ever a reason to not use wagon removal? 13:11:50 <Bjarni> I don't get why 3) aren't the idea solution in your eyes :/ 13:12:22 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, Darkvater didn't like autoreplace to remove wagons from his trains... don't ask me why, but I enabled this feature on his request 13:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but could it at least be default on? ;) 13:12:58 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: there is a reason 13:12:59 <Bjarni> part of the request was default off 13:13:09 <Celestar> (gdb) p fd.best_track 13:13:10 <Celestar> = 13 '\r' 13:13:15 <peter1138> Celestar: ! 13:13:19 <peter1138> imaginary tracks 13:13:39 <Celestar> peter1138: .... I think I found the problem (possibly) 13:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i then request a wagon removal based on capacity? :) 13:14:36 <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: make a feature request, where you specify what you want it to do and I will take a look 13:14:54 <Celestar> peter1138: the problem is apparently, once NTP found a path to the destination, it WILL stop searching 13:14:55 <Bjarni> I mean if it got 2 different types of cargo, what then and so on 13:15:23 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:15:52 <Bjarni> bah, I'm expecting an important email and now I lost the connection to my mailserver :( 13:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... same wagon with different cargo... that's gonna be intresting ;) 13:16:45 <Bjarni> no, I mean like 3 livestock cars and 3 grain cars 13:17:33 <Bjarni> start to think about this and also more unusual combos and write it down. This is how patches start if you intend to remove all bugs by design from the start 13:19:21 <Bjarni> <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: there is a reason <-- actually what is the reason? 13:19:28 <Celestar> we should REALLY stop thinking in terms of "patches" :S 13:19:36 <Bjarni> ok 13:19:36 <Celestar> we do not code patches 13:19:41 <Bjarni> s/patches/features 13:19:43 <Celestar> we're not special casing 13:20:20 <Bjarni> actually I was thinking more like feature, but people tend to think of such as .diff and call them patches 13:21:12 *** A1win [i=a1win@loota.fi] has joined #openttd 13:35:42 *** roboman [n=Leo@c211-30-120-103.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:36:55 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-5882.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 13:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm away over the (long) weekend, i might think about something ;) 13:38:17 <Celestar> after the weekend 0.4.8rc1 should be there 13:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. weekend starts this evening ;) 13:40:04 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@user-3365.lns2-c7.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:40:36 *** Cipri [n=cipri@a47034.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 13:52:01 <peter1138> 14:14 < Celestar> peter1138: the problem is apparently, once NTP found a path to the destination, it WILL stop searching 13:52:11 <peter1138> is that a problem? 13:52:20 <peter1138> presumably it won't then try to find a shorter path 13:53:53 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@84.65.173.37] has joined #openttd 13:54:21 <Celestar> right 13:54:36 <Celestar> that problem occurs only in the "no junction "situation" 13:55:51 <peter1138> ? 13:57:39 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 13:57:53 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:58:24 <Celestar> because if there's a junction in between (on the long route), it will stop searching there (temporarily) and start from the junction right at the depot 13:58:41 <peter1138> o_O 13:58:44 <peter1138> how strange 13:58:46 <Sacro> afternoon all 13:59:54 <Celestar> peter1138: so the operation is: search one branch until a junction is found, then search next branch and so on 14:00:13 <peter1138> right 14:00:17 <peter1138> but if there is no branch 14:00:24 <Celestar> as soon as the destination is met, abort 14:00:27 <peter1138> it will get to the destination and assume that's the best path? 14:01:21 <Celestar> seems so 14:01:28 <peter1138> that's quite retarded 14:03:06 <Celestar> if (tpf->enum_proc(tile, tpf->userdata, si.first_track, si.cur_length)) return 14:03:46 <Celestar> that returns "true" if the station in question has been found. 14:03:53 * Celestar votes for removing OPF 14:04:10 * Celestar also votes for closing the bug reports in question, since these are inherent problems of NTP 14:05:46 <Sacro> OPF is amusing though :P 14:05:47 <peter1138> OPF is removed for trains 14:06:19 <peter1138> what will you use for road vehicles and signals? 14:06:24 <peter1138> (and boats) 14:06:42 *** glx [i=glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:07:10 <Celestar> peter1138: use YAPF 14:07:16 <Celestar> peter1138: I mean not for 0.4.8 14:07:17 <Dred_furst> im making a supercomputer :) 14:09:20 *** Hallo is now known as Ha11o 14:10:45 <peter1138> YAPF is suitable for signals? 14:11:19 <Celestar> yask KUDr_wrk :) 14:11:29 <peter1138> KUDr: is it? :) 14:12:42 <Sacro> think you need KUDr_wrk 14:13:24 <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: is it? :) 14:15:05 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:15:14 <hylje> hmm ottd does have some problems with xgl :X 14:15:40 <peter1138> not quite 14:15:44 <peter1138> it's SDL 14:16:13 <hylje> k 14:16:20 <hylje> forced transparency :< 14:16:29 <peter1138> you can fix it with a quick export 14:16:34 <hylje> gief 14:16:43 <peter1138> some environment var concerning RGBA visuals 14:16:57 <peter1138> nothing a quick google won't find 14:18:49 <hylje> yah 14:18:50 <hylje> ty 14:22:07 <peter1138> i found it much slower, though 14:22:09 <Sacro> grrr, what distros have prebuilt xorg 7.1 packages? or are you all gentoo'ers? 14:22:12 <peter1138> so standard X for me 14:22:36 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:22:41 <Sacro> i have x with composite at the moment 14:22:54 <peter1138> composite's pretty slow too, heh 14:23:01 <peter1138> damn 32MB GF2MX, i guess 14:23:29 <hylje> Sacro: gentooer :> 14:23:41 * peter1138 uses debian / ubuntu 14:23:49 <peter1138> dunno what version of X it is though 14:23:57 <peter1138> what's in 7.1 that's a must-have? 14:24:38 <Sacro> peter1138: new GLX stuff 14:25:45 <Sacro> can anyone loan me a pipe? 14:25:58 <Bjarni> why? 14:26:04 <Bjarni> did you break your's? 14:26:10 <Sacro> Bjarni: i cant find it on the US keymap 14:26:18 <Bjarni> | 14:26:30 <Sacro> Bjarni: thanks :) 14:27:42 <Bjarni> ohh, this reminds of the "inverted 3" button, that broke quote on bash.org 14:27:53 <Bjarni> it's the one between w and r 14:27:59 <Bjarni> "oh, which one is that?" 14:28:00 <Bjarni> :D 14:28:48 <Sacro> i dont seem to be able to get GNOME, KDE and X stuff to all have the UK Keyboard 14:31:53 <peter1138> it didn't work right for me with Xgl 14:34:23 <Sacro> just to prove bobingabout wrong, what rev was 0.4.7? my l33t svn skills arent that good :) 14:34:49 <peter1138> rsomethingorother 14:35:30 <Sacro> peter1138: useful :) 14:35:40 <peter1138> yup 14:36:03 <peter1138> you could be really useful and point out that 0.4.7 will be in a branch, not in trunk 14:36:22 <Bjarni> Sacro: what are you trying to proof? 14:36:24 *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas 14:37:30 <Sacro> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=447065#447065 14:37:31 <KUDr_wrk> <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: is it? :) <- I can add support for signals 14:37:53 <Sacro> KUDr_wrk: it'd be more fun for the pathfinder without them :) 14:41:35 <Bjarni> Sacro: well, I thought I might as well help you 14:41:47 <Bjarni> what a piece of s*** he just said :p 14:42:07 <Sacro> Bjarni: yeah i know, you dont have him on your msn list though 14:42:36 <Sacro> even more, you dont have a 4GB hard drive of his on loan... 14:42:42 <hylje> hmm 14:42:54 <hylje> could you include keyboard shortcuts in button tooltips ? 14:43:11 *** Sacro is now known as Sacro|AFK 14:43:22 <Sacro|AFK> thought i registered that... 14:43:42 <Sacro|AFK> Bjarni: that pipes coming in useful :) 14:45:27 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:45:29 <GoneWacko> :-o 14:45:46 <KUDr_wrk> <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: is it? :) <- I can add support for signals <- sorry, i don't understand 14:46:13 <peter1138> ? 14:46:13 <KUDr_wrk> sh*t 14:46:22 <KUDr_wrk> <Sacro> KUDr_wrk: it'd be more fun for the pathfinder without them :) <- don't understand 14:46:34 <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: sorry 14:46:40 <KUDr_wrk> pasted wrong line 14:48:07 <Celestar> ? 14:48:27 <KUDr_wrk> YAPF can support signals 14:48:38 <KUDr_wrk> but some work is needed 14:49:02 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: it needn't do that now 14:49:10 <Sacro|AFK> KUDr_wrk: i whole network with no signals, will be fun for YAPF to avoid crashes 14:49:12 <Bjarni> <KUDr_wrk> pasted wrong line <-- you can read about such things on bash.org if it contains links to gay porn and stuff like that :P 14:49:22 <KUDr_wrk> aha 14:49:27 <Celestar> peter1138: I think the problem doesn't occur with siglans :) 14:50:10 <KUDr_wrk> Bjarni: yes, but i have here some guys talking to me whole the day 14:50:22 <KUDr_wrk> so i do mistakes 14:50:26 <peter1138> Celestar: no, but signals uses OPF... and you wanted to remove it :) 14:50:32 <Bjarni> such mean guys 14:50:48 <Bjarni> maybe they even want you to do your job >_< 14:50:55 <peter1138> disgusting 14:51:10 <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: Celestar: i guess we can maintain OPF for signals until we have other solution(s) 14:51:11 <Bjarni> like DV's shit boss? 14:51:31 <Celestar> peter1138: removing it for trains .... 14:52:30 <Darkvater> whazzup? 14:52:31 <peter1138> ... 14:52:35 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: OPF is not used for trains 14:52:36 <Celestar> Darkvater: NTP sucks 14:52:38 <peter1138> "OPF" isn't used for trains... 14:52:42 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I mean NTP 14:52:45 <KUDr_wrk> aha, NTP too? 14:52:46 <peter1138> and NTP isn't "OPF" 14:52:48 <Darkvater> opf and signals don't compute. there is no opf anymore for trains 14:53:11 <Celestar> Darkvater: OPF is used for signalling 14:53:18 <Celestar> NTP is used for train pathfiding 14:53:35 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D045.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:53:38 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: if you remove NTP, there will remain only NPF 14:53:47 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: only YAPF 14:53:58 <KUDr_wrk> heh, is it good idea now 14:53:59 <Darkvater> really? OPF is used for signalling? he 14:54:09 <KUDr_wrk> i would recommend to wait with it 14:54:20 <peter1138> Darkvater: don't you know anything about this code? ;po 14:54:28 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: the problem is .. NTP is rather faulty 14:54:50 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: NTP was there long time and nobody complained 14:54:57 <peter1138> Celestar: have you found the reason for the (pseudo) randomness? 14:55:00 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: so it must be fixable 14:55:14 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: the problems appear only in edge cases 14:55:35 <Celestar> peter1138: Random(); ? 14:55:36 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: then we have no reason to hurry removing it 14:55:48 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: no, don't hurry 14:55:58 <Celestar> the question is whether to spend time fixing it 14:56:03 <peter1138> edge cases only appear when testing other bugs, eheh 14:56:07 <Darkvater> peter1138: I know a little when I fixed a pf-overflow, but nothing about signalling 14:56:23 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: Random() is there to find always different best path 14:56:39 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: NTP doesn't always find the best path 14:56:58 <peter1138> Darkvater: i learned lots when i did my diag track under bridges stuff 14:57:02 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: and it can't be fixed? 14:57:18 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I'm not sure yet 14:57:30 <Celestar> I'm at work so I can spend only little time doing it :) 14:57:41 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: then assign it to me and i can try it after merging YAPF 14:57:45 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: but the cases are on the official bug reports to 0.4.8 14:58:08 <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: if YAPF is merged, I really see no reason in fixing that ... 14:58:24 <peter1138> yeah 14:58:36 <peter1138> if YAPF is as good as the benchmarks seems, we should just use that 14:58:42 <Darkvater> donnu, NTP is tested, works and fast 14:58:55 <Darkvater> it should stay at least long enough to iron out all yapf-bugs 14:58:57 <peter1138> having pathfinder options is... YASPO 14:59:01 <KUDr_wrk> YAPF is relatively HUGE in comparison with NTP and therefore it is not bad idea to have there also some light (even not so good PF) 14:59:14 <Celestar> Darkvater: stay yes, but spending time fixing this problem? 15:00:02 *** mikl [n=mikl@pdpc/supporter/active/mikl] has quit ["In the end, all that matters is your relation with God..."] 15:00:06 <Darkvater> how many problems are there? 15:00:12 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has joined #openttd 15:00:16 <Celestar> 184 185 15:00:20 <webfreakz> hi 15:00:24 <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: OK, then let NTP as an option 15:00:30 *** Sacro|AFK is now known as Sacro 15:01:47 <Darkvater> isn't that waypoints? Which let me add doesn't work for NPF either 15:02:38 <webfreakz> last week i have been playing with a self-compiled openttd and modified the files /table/strings.h in order to raise the maximum speed of vehicles, i had been playing the game using this compilation and have several savegames 15:02:38 <webfreakz> today i reverted all changes and started with a clean SVN, compiled, opened the game but i could play the savegames described above. 15:02:38 <webfreakz> could this be due to the fact openttd saved settings from strings.h in its savegame? 15:03:01 <peter1138> table/strings.h to change speeds !? 15:03:46 <webfreakz> hmm, wrong filename 15:05:07 <webfreakz> ah, i meant "/table/engines.h" 15:05:23 <peter1138> was that the only change before? 15:05:43 <peter1138> oh, you *could* play the savegames... yes, why wouldn't you be able to? 15:06:13 <webfreakz> yes, i raised the maximum speed of Maglev'4 trains to 1280km/h and raised the maximum ammount of HP but i can't recall the value, and the bridge speed limit of the most expensive one to 1000km/h 15:07:30 <webfreakz> well, now with a compiled clean compiled one it says: 15:07:30 <webfreakz> "Load game failed: found unkown tag in savegame (sync error)." 15:07:30 <webfreakz> "Game Load Failed" 15:07:51 <webfreakz> i must say it is with /branch/yapf/ 15:08:02 <webfreakz> but the savegames before yesterday i can open 15:08:21 <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: it is OK 15:08:24 <webfreakz> the only question i've got is: can i open it? 15:08:46 <webfreakz> KUDr: i already assumed you didn't modified anything related to this :) 15:09:02 <KUDr_wrk> savegame was different yesterday 15:09:13 <webfreakz> ? 15:09:15 <KUDr_wrk> and before yesterday evening 15:09:22 <KUDr_wrk> was stes aside 15:09:23 <webfreakz> but it should open? 15:09:26 <KUDr_wrk> no 15:09:39 <webfreakz> so you did modify something? 15:09:39 <KUDr_wrk> step aside 15:09:44 <KUDr_wrk> yes 15:09:47 <webfreakz> hmm 15:09:52 * webfreakz is screwed 15:09:57 <KUDr_wrk> used different way for saving settings 15:10:07 <KUDr_wrk> so savegames was incompatible 15:10:15 <webfreakz> is there any way i can open it? 15:10:17 <KUDr_wrk> yesterday and today's 15:10:32 <KUDr_wrk> use yesterday branch 15:11:26 <webfreakz> and then? 15:11:29 <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: but don't worry. It was experiment and was reverted 15:11:36 <KUDr_wrk> then nothing 15:11:50 <KUDr_wrk> no way how to continue on this game with new code 15:11:55 <KUDr_wrk> i am sorry for that 15:12:04 <KUDr_wrk> it was my mistake 15:12:08 <peter1138> use the old version until your game's finished 15:12:13 <webfreakz> yeah but if i go back to yesterday's version, will i be able to open it e.g next week? 15:12:14 <KUDr_wrk> yes 15:12:29 <peter1138> the perils of using development versions :) 15:12:34 <webfreakz> :( 15:12:41 <KUDr_wrk> next week with yesterday version yes 15:12:41 <webfreakz> well, my games never end :) 15:12:48 <webfreakz> haha 15:12:48 <KUDr_wrk> with next week version not 15:12:57 <webfreakz> so it is screwed? 15:13:09 <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: then move back one day 15:13:22 <KUDr_wrk> and lost last day's changes 15:13:24 <peter1138> you don't *have* to update 15:13:32 <webfreakz> i do want to update 15:13:48 <webfreakz> then i've to use the the savegame which works 15:13:54 <webfreakz> too bad :) 15:13:59 <Darkvater> well you could skip the unknown chunk with a little code 15:14:16 <Darkvater> but I'm not going to write it for you 15:14:21 <webfreakz> i've totally got no idea on how i could to that 15:14:29 <webfreakz> *do that 15:14:43 <Darkvater> I just told you I am NOT going to do that 15:14:53 <webfreakz> i read that 15:14:54 <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: then do your network again - it will be better than before 15:15:30 <glx> hmm it is also possible to save the game in uncompressed mode and fix it by hand (removed the now invalid chunk) 15:15:43 <KUDr_wrk> yes 15:15:50 <Darkvater> mine's easier 15:15:53 <Darkvater> :) 15:16:12 <Darkvater> bah bloomberg freaks out :S 15:16:27 <webfreakz> glx: how could i save it uncompressed? 15:17:06 <webfreakz> KUDr: was it this svn-commit which changed everything? http://svn.openttd.org/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/changeset/4957 15:18:13 <KUDr_wrk> webfreakz: yes, so the non-standard save/load was from 4948 to 4956 15:18:29 <KUDr_wrk> so you need to get 4956 15:19:09 <KUDr_wrk> and it will work, but your savegames will not be supported by newer versions 15:19:42 <webfreakz> hmm, well, it just think it's better to play using the newest SVN and then play with the last saved savegame which does work 15:22:42 <Darkvater> I think the compressor is in openttd.cfg available for selection 15:22:44 <Darkvater> < home 15:23:16 <glx> yes savegame_format = none should work 15:24:02 <webfreakz> ok 15:24:49 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 15:25:05 <webfreakz> hi 15:25:16 <XeryusTC> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25308 < check my answer :) 15:25:25 <Sacro> hi webfreakz 15:25:35 <webfreakz> hey sacro ^^, 15:25:52 * Sacro wants underground stations for down the tube 15:26:06 <Bjarni> Sacro: then code it 15:26:23 <webfreakz> XeryusTC: great answer 15:26:26 <Sacro> Bjarni: i cant get eclipse to work :( 15:26:34 <Bjarni> XeryusTC: I saw your reply. It's short and precise, just like it should be :D 15:26:50 <webfreakz> :) 15:26:53 <XeryusTC> yes :) 15:27:40 <Bjarni> Sacro: you don't need eclipse, you just need to code the source, so any text editor is valid 15:27:56 <Bjarni> once you are done, I will be happy to compile it for you 15:27:59 <Bjarni> :p 15:28:43 <webfreakz> maybe it doesn't even compile 15:28:46 <webfreakz> ^^ 15:29:14 <Sacro> Bjarni: i have a compiler 15:31:17 <Sacro> brb, reboot 15:31:19 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 15:33:55 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:34:35 <Sacro> damn glibc 15:35:20 * Sacro upgrads gaim to svn 15:35:36 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:36:00 <Sacro> ooh tis a Brianetta 15:36:21 <XeryusTC> w00t Brianetta :D 15:36:54 <[Shaman]> RUN!! 15:36:56 <Brianetta> (: 15:37:08 <XeryusTC> Brianetta: see coop channel 15:37:11 <XeryusTC> im off to dinner now 15:37:12 <Brianetta> I did 15:37:17 <XeryusTC> ok :) 15:37:21 * Brianetta shrugsCheck your grfs 15:39:48 <Sacro> anyone here ever blocked someone in gaim? how do you unblock? 15:40:10 <Brianetta> You blocked bobingbout? 15:40:46 <Sacro> Brianetta: not yet...close to though 15:40:54 <Brianetta> I'm tempted. 15:41:01 <Brianetta> Mind you, I don't know how to unblock. 15:42:25 <Sacro> Brianetta: you use gaim too? 15:42:57 <Sacro> hehe, the funniest thing was when i moved house, and didnt tell him, and then my dad got the phone disconnected, he thought i'd died 15:43:46 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 15:45:42 <peter1138> "funny" 15:45:43 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:45:46 <peter1138> "funny" 15:45:55 <Brianetta> I'd file that under funny 15:45:59 <peter1138> what is this relationship of yours with bobingabout? 15:46:08 <Brianetta> bobingabout is a pest. 15:46:14 * peter1138 wonders if there are any ottders local to him 15:46:30 <peter1138> (i think jvassie is near, but he's an evil ttdper!) 15:46:42 * Brianetta hisses 15:46:51 <Brianetta> THere'll never be a TTDP nightly server. 15:46:52 <peter1138> well, not really :) 15:47:15 <peter1138> why not? 15:47:24 <Brianetta> Ni imgination, that lot. 15:47:26 <Sacro> humm, X recieved SIG 15 15:47:28 <hylje> who is bobingabout 15:47:35 <Brianetta> hylje: Tash 15:47:44 <Brianetta> bobingabout is his forum name 15:47:55 <peter1138> why isn't it bobbing, anyway? 15:48:02 <Brianetta> lol 15:48:19 <Brianetta> That's been on my mind for months, but i just shrug and say, 15:48:23 <Brianetta> "Hey, it's a proper noun." 15:51:40 <Brianetta> It's quiet. 15:51:48 * Brianetta heads over to bash.org 15:52:52 <Sacro> Brianetta: its apparently been his online name for ages 15:54:28 *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.7 | WebTranslator2 public beta test begun! | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | Anyone posting a bash.org address twice in 10 minutes will be banned 15:54:45 <peter1138> NEW NAZI MADE-UP-ON-THE-SPOT RULE! 15:55:00 <hylje> z0mg 15:55:06 <peter1138> (and it applies to Bjarni mostly :P) 15:56:00 <Brianetta> http://bash.org/?7259 15:56:07 * Brianetta giggles (: 15:57:47 * XeryusTC is back 15:58:11 <XeryusTC> peter1138: wat about qdb.us? :P 15:58:16 <peter1138> *sigh* 15:58:37 *** peter1138 changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.7 | WebTranslator2 public beta test begun! | Website: *.openttd.org (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | Anyone posting any bash.org or qdb.us URL twice in 10 minutes will be banned 15:58:50 <peter1138> any other popular quote sites? :P 15:59:39 <XeryusTC> uhm, the only other one i know is dutch 16:00:12 <Sacro> XeryusTC: qdb.us 16:00:34 <XeryusTC> [17:58:50] <XeryusTC> peter1138: wat about qdb.us? :P 16:01:32 <Celestar> hm .. hi peops 16:02:14 <XeryusTC> hi Celestar 16:03:03 <Celestar> peter1138: I see no way fixing the pathfinding problems without doing major changes to NTP 16:03:06 * Sacro doesnt read up muhc 16:04:30 * Celestar wants/needs bridges merged 16:04:37 <Sacro> Celestar: go on then 16:04:48 * Celestar waits for 0.4.8rc1 to be released 16:06:02 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729D4.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:06:08 <Celestar> then I'll do custombridgeheads and crossingbridges 16:06:22 <Celestar> and I also need more feedback on correctbridgebbs 16:07:36 <Sacro> Celestar: cant you branch off rc1 and merge bridges? 16:09:42 <peter1138> they're separate anyway 16:12:06 <Celestar> they re 16:12:47 <Sacro> well why not merge it, then us nightly players can test it 16:12:49 <Celestar> peter1138: any bash address or the same bash address? ;) 16:13:32 <Sacro> peter1138: what if you quickly sneak in 3 posts? 16:15:24 <Celestar> wee 16:15:43 <Celestar> elrails are properly drawn below bridges now 16:17:23 <Celestar> hm 16:17:33 <Celestar> ok I'll first try to fix the last remaining npf bug 16:17:39 <Celestar> other people will bug my ass off 16:17:46 <webfreakz> lol 16:19:09 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 16:20:22 * peter1138 kicks CIA-3 16:20:24 <CIA-3> ow 16:20:37 <webfreakz> huh? 16:22:12 * webfreakz slams CIA-3 16:22:19 * webfreakz kicks CIA-3 16:22:19 <CIA-3> ow 16:22:23 <webfreakz> hmm 16:24:26 <Sacro> how do you stop join notifications for a channel im not in? 16:25:16 <webfreakz> unplug your network cable 16:25:27 <webfreakz> :) 16:25:38 <Sacro> webfreakz: wireless 16:25:45 <webfreakz> ah crap 16:26:02 <webfreakz> disconnect from the server? 16:26:06 <webfreakz> and reconnect? 16:26:11 <CIA-3> celestar * r4968 /branch/bridge/npf.c: 16:26:11 <CIA-3> [bridge] -Fix: Make NPF plan over bridges again. When "entering" a bridge or 16:26:11 <CIA-3> tunnel tile during FollowTrack, only check for the correct direction if we ENTER 16:26:11 <CIA-3> the tunnel or bridge in question, not leave it (because if can enter a tile, we 16:26:11 <CIA-3> assume that there's a corresponding exit portal anyway, same for bridges) 16:26:26 <Sacro> Celestar: commit bridges :) 16:26:31 <Celestar> cool cool 16:26:55 <webfreakz> yippie 16:27:38 <Celestar> not that fast 16:27:45 <Celestar> I first need to update the branch 16:28:02 <Sacro> Celestar: quickly 16:28:44 <webfreakz> hurry! 16:30:07 <Celestar> CHILL 16:30:18 <Celestar> (= 16:31:24 <peter1138> hmm. 17:30 16:31:34 <webfreakz> 18.31? 16:32:14 <Celestar> ? 16:32:19 <webfreakz> it's 18:32 here 16:34:34 <CIA-3> celestar * r4969 /branch/bridge/ (47 files in 5 dirs): Sync with trunk up to 4968 16:34:36 <Sacro> 17:35 here 16:34:44 <Sacro> Celestar: :) go for merge? 16:34:47 <Sacro> brb 16:34:49 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 16:35:07 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 16:35:11 <webfreakz> hi sacro 16:35:18 <webfreakz> long time no see ^^ 16:35:31 <Sacro> hey webfreakz, all of 30 seconds 16:35:39 * Sacro screams - bobingabout has found him on msn 16:35:45 <peter1138> 47 files... yum. 16:35:56 <webfreakz> sacro: not even 20 seconds ;) 16:35:59 <Celestar> language ... 16:36:21 <Sacro> Celestar: english? 16:36:49 * Sacro only speaks english, and that isnt too good 16:37:27 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:04 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:38:13 * webfreakz is off here and is going to play Trackmania Nations :) 16:39:02 *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@195.73.147.226] has quit ["cya"] 16:39:36 <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> svn merge -q -r4427:4969 svn://svn.openttd.org/branch/bridge . 16:39:39 <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd/trunk]> svn st | grep ^C | wc -l 16:39:42 <Celestar> 16 16:40:12 <Celestar> this is bad 16:40:27 <peter1138> :) 16:40:35 <peter1138> have fun 16:41:46 <Celestar> very bad :S 16:43:34 <KUDr> Celestar: this is why i do it more often 16:43:48 <Celestar> KUDr: no no. I mean the merge :) 16:43:49 <Celestar> THE merge 16:43:51 <Celestar> not syncing 16:43:56 <KUDr> aha 16:44:06 <KUDr> merge with what? 16:44:10 <peter1138> trunk! 16:44:19 <KUDr> hmm 16:44:27 <KUDr> and what is the difference 16:44:41 <KUDr> i do merge trunk into yapf as syncing 16:44:52 <peter1138> other way 16:44:53 <Celestar> well, its 500 revisions .... 16:45:02 <peter1138> it's merging *into* trunk 16:45:03 <KUDr> ah 16:45:20 <KUDr> so 500 bridge revisions into current trunk? 16:45:31 <Celestar> well it's an attempt 16:45:46 <KUDr> but result will be the same or not? 16:45:50 <Celestar> yes 16:46:02 <Celestar> revision 4427 was a mistake :S 16:46:06 <KUDr> so why to do it so? 16:46:18 <Celestar> because you need to COPY then ADD 16:46:38 * Sacro is confused 16:46:44 * KUDr too 16:47:15 <KUDr> Celestar: do you want to tell me that i will need to do the same with yapf? 16:47:22 <Celestar> KUDr: lets see 16:48:13 <KUDr> i would do the (copy + add) from yapf to trunk 16:48:19 <Celestar> KUDr: I think there is much less of a problem ... 16:48:29 <Celestar> because you did the copy properly 16:48:47 <Celestar> as opposed to Tron 16:48:58 <KUDr> i had also many conflicts in the past (while syncing) 16:49:07 <Celestar> KUDr: can you sync with trunk now? 16:49:16 <KUDr> can try it 16:49:17 <Celestar> then I'll try 16:49:25 <peter1138> tron didn't do the copy properly? 16:49:28 <Celestar> no I mean first trunk => yapf 16:49:34 <Celestar> peter1138: it appears not so 16:49:45 <KUDr> this is what i did rercently 16:50:03 <Celestar> KUDr: please do it now again, much easier to try merging ... 16:50:15 <KUDr> ok 16:50:23 <Celestar> peter1138: he just commited is local working copy :S 16:50:27 <Sacro> oooh, you merging YAPF and bridges now? or just testing? 16:50:35 <Celestar> Sacro: test first. 16:50:41 <Celestar> see what conflicts there are 16:50:49 <Celestar> a merge is not like pressing a button or two 16:50:50 <Sacro> Celestar: and if there are none? does it stick? 16:51:10 <Sacro> Celestar: yeah i know, im helping a friend merge some php stuff :S 16:51:27 <Celestar> Sacro: bridge makes about 100 conflicts ... 16:51:48 <Sacro> Celestar: ouch, thats gonna take some sorting 16:51:52 <Celestar> yes 16:51:58 * Celestar punches Tron 16:52:23 <peter1138> i don't think that'll make any different 16:52:26 <peter1138> -t+ce 16:52:49 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4970 /branch/yapf/vehicle.c: Sync with trunk (4965:4967) 16:53:02 <Celestar> peter1138: it does 16:53:11 <Celestar> peter1138: because a critical diff is missing in the database 16:53:26 <Celestar> peter1138: maybe I can trick it somehow 16:53:35 <peter1138> hmm 16:53:57 <KUDr> Celestar: vehicle.c was the only one 16:53:58 <Celestar> I have an idea 16:54:25 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has joined #openttd 16:55:12 <Celestar> merging 16:55:29 <KUDr> yapf->bridge? 16:55:39 <Celestar> yapf->trunk 16:55:44 <KUDr> aha 16:55:46 <Celestar> at least looking how many conflicts 16:56:14 <Sacro> hmmm, a->b->c = a->c->b ? 16:56:20 <KUDr> yapf->trunk doesn't need to be merged - it needs just copy/add or am i wrong? 16:56:55 *** Osai [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:57:25 <Celestar> it should be merged 16:57:41 <KUDr> what is the difference if result is the same? 16:57:46 <Celestar> but conflicts are minimal 16:58:01 <Celestar> very minimal 16:58:22 <Celestar> should be < 15 minutes merge work 16:58:23 <KUDr> i would delete all .svd directories from yapf and copy it all over trunk 16:58:45 <KUDr> .svn 16:58:47 <blathijs> KUDr: you should use svn export if you don't want svn dirs 16:59:00 <KUDr> blathijs: yes - the same 16:59:12 <blathijs> KUDr: yet merging should be flawless if the branch is up to date and works better with added files 16:59:13 <Celestar> you shouldn't copy 16:59:20 <Celestar> always merge 16:59:20 *** CmdKewin [n=cmdkewin@212.243.72.197] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.03 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 16:59:46 <KUDr> Celestar: you merge it locally - so the result n the server is the same 16:59:54 <Celestar> KUDr: yes, but there are conflicts 17:00:03 <Celestar> places that you'd just override in a copy 17:00:07 <Celestar> which isn't so good 17:00:18 <KUDr> Celestar: but if you copy/add you have no conflicts 17:00:30 <KUDr> nono 17:00:47 <KUDr> the wanted result is that new trunk == yapf 17:01:09 <KUDr> so no need to do merge 17:01:21 <Celestar> NO 17:01:23 <Celestar> its not 17:01:27 <Celestar> for example, savegame revisions 17:01:56 <KUDr> what revisions? If yapf is up to date it MUST be the same 17:02:10 <Celestar> errp 17:02:57 <Celestar> you change savegame revisions in yapf different from savegame revisions in trunk 17:03:07 <Celestar> ALL games that have been created in trunk need to be loadable 17:03:46 <Celestar> as yapf changed the savegame revision 17:03:52 <KUDr> if rev in trunk is 28 and in yapf too, merging will not increase it to 29 17:03:58 <Celestar> it needs to 17:04:21 <KUDr> this you must do manually after the merge or copy/add 17:04:30 <Celestar> this you must do during the merge 17:04:46 <Celestar> before the commit 17:04:52 <KUDr> sorry, i don't see difference 17:05:01 <KUDr> yes before commit 17:05:06 <Celestar> because if you copy, you'll forget it 17:05:10 <KUDr> after copy 17:05:11 <Celestar> trust me ... 17:05:13 <Celestar> ;) 17:05:42 <Celestar> it's much better if you SEE where the problems are.. 17:06:07 <KUDr> aha, yes it is possible but i don't want to solve the old conflicts again and introduce new bugs by making mistake 17:06:35 <KUDr> because i already solved and tested them 17:07:02 <Celestar> then let me do the merge at time, k? ;) 17:07:23 <KUDr> you can do whatever you like 17:07:35 <KUDr> you are dev 17:07:44 <Celestar> you are too 17:07:48 <KUDr> no 17:07:56 <KUDr> i am external consultant 17:08:00 <Brianetta> http://bash.org/?349132 17:08:02 <Celestar> but from personal experience, merging causes much less problem then just copy 17:08:14 <Celestar> I might be mistaken ... 17:08:34 <KUDr> ok, i always copied it (at work) 17:08:46 <Celestar> just get the savegame revisions right 17:08:53 <Celestar> (saveload.c and openttd.c) 17:09:04 <Celestar> there aren't any other problematic conflicts anyway 17:09:16 <KUDr> aha 17:09:17 <Celestar> so it makes little difference 17:09:20 <KUDr> then ok 17:09:47 <Celestar> quite opposite to bridge branch 17:10:00 <KUDr> really? 17:10:04 <Celestar> yes. 17:10:10 <Celestar> because Tron created the bridge wrongly 17:10:12 <KUDr> ah, yes, yapf is relatively separate 17:10:25 <Celestar> our gcc bug report causes some headache to the gcc developers ;) 17:10:37 <peter1138> which gcc bug report? 17:10:44 <Celestar> peter1138: the warning in player_gui.c 17:10:49 <peter1138> oh, that got reported? 17:10:49 <peter1138> hmm 17:11:00 <Celestar> I filed it 17:11:22 <Celestar> targeted for 4.0.4 17:11:32 <KUDr> Celestar: if you will have merged yapf->trunk you can commit it 17:11:48 <Celestar> me->food(); 17:11:53 <Celestar> a bit later 17:12:00 <KUDr> enjoy 17:12:03 <Celestar> mom's already yelled 3 times ;) 17:13:33 <Bjarni> make her yell 7 times 17:13:39 <Bjarni> 7 is a magic number ;) 17:13:45 <Sacro> egh, gnome-volume-manager died, and took out gaim 17:15:19 *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@81.166.137.5] has joined #openttd 17:15:47 <Bjarni> it's more fun if it max out volume even when you think you muted the computer 17:15:55 <Bjarni> I tried that once >_< 17:16:04 <Bjarni> at school 17:18:06 <Bjarni> the issue is not that it started to make sounds, it was more that I could not stop it 17:18:54 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:19:00 <peter1138> good job you weren't watching hardcore pornography, eh? 17:19:40 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54945C3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:22:21 <Bjarni> yeah 17:22:52 <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/files/rail_421.png << we need explicit foundations! 17:23:00 *** sw4y [n=sw4y@snat2.arachne.czfree.net] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."] 17:23:26 <Bjarni> but I think it was stupid to sit at school and watch porn 17:24:03 <Sacro> i dunno, we found it something to do 17:24:40 <Bjarni> you watched porn and dropped out. I did neither of those 17:24:40 <Bjarni> go figure 17:25:24 <XeryusTC> that sounds a big harsh somehow... 17:25:42 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:25:43 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 17:25:45 <Bjarni> yeah 17:25:49 <Bjarni> but I saw the same thing 17:26:26 <Bjarni> I noticed that most of the dropouts watched porn at school, while those, who didn't drop out didn't do it at all or very little 17:27:37 <Bjarni> actually watching porn is not the brightest idea in the world 17:27:48 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-210-113.vodafone-net.de] has joined #openttd 17:28:48 <XeryusTC> heh, i had a teacher that used kept getting porn popups when we were in a computer room once 17:29:56 <hylje> :> 17:30:05 <Sacro> lol 17:31:14 <XeryusTC> actually, almost everybody knew that there were those kind of popups on that computer except from some teachers 17:31:35 <Bjarni> at one time, somebody printed a lot of pics of naked women in the computer room and placed those prints in the paper tray, so the next people, who wanted to print got a background pic they didn't expect 17:31:44 <XeryusTC> so we were making quite some fun out of it :) 17:31:49 <Bjarni> the school never figured out who did it 17:32:04 <XeryusTC> rofl 17:33:56 <Bjarni> later I saw something like that as candid camera on TV. Some public copy machine (you know, one of those with a coin slot) had the toner removed and naked women on the papers, so nomatter what people placed in it, they got boobs on the copy 17:34:29 <Bjarni> and they had actors nearby, that gave those looks at the people, who used the machine 17:34:32 <hylje> :o 17:34:42 <hylje> and that O RLY printer virus ? 17:35:23 <Bjarni> image wanting to take a copy of some paper and the copy only contains a naked woman and everybody around you just gives you looks like you are a pervert or something 17:35:44 <XeryusTC> lol 17:35:54 <Sacro> anyone tell me how to make GNOME open a .html file in firefox by default? 17:35:54 <XeryusTC> it wouldn't be nice to be the target of that though 17:37:28 <Brianetta> later peple 17:37:40 <Bjarni> candid camera can be so funny 17:38:31 <Sacro> yup it can 17:38:34 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit ["Tsch??"] 17:38:53 *** dp__ [n=dp@p54B2EB40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:57 *** StarLite [n=Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:41:32 *** Osai^2 [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 17:42:54 *** StarLite [n=Star@StarLite.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:44:32 *** zemei [n=zemei@dsl5400E885.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 17:45:44 <CIA-3> miham * r4971 /trunk/lang/ (dutch.txt slovak.txt): 17:45:44 <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-24 19:45:32 17:45:44 <CIA-3> dutch - 1 fixed by webfreakz (1) 17:45:44 <CIA-3> slovak - 57 fixed, 2 changed by miro-boss (59) 17:47:25 <Celestar> back 17:47:37 <Celestar> Darkvater: you anywhere near? 17:48:08 <brygge_2> Celestar: do you plan to implement signals on bridges in the bridge branch? 17:48:16 <Celestar> brygge_2: later on. 17:48:29 <Celestar> custombridgehead come first 17:48:35 <Celestar> crossing bridges 17:48:45 <hylje> bendy bridges !! 17:48:46 <Celestar> and I'm also working on real high bridges 17:48:58 <Celestar> so that you can go 2+ levels from ground level 17:49:06 <Celestar> or have bridge heads at different heights 17:49:09 <hylje> :o 17:49:32 <Celestar> we need some changes to the map first tho 17:49:36 <Celestar> minor stuff 17:49:43 <brygge_2> Celestar: thats really cool 17:49:55 <Celestar> not sure I can manage, but it SHOULD work 17:50:02 <Celestar> my concept is already finished. 17:50:17 <Celestar> but then KUDr and I are also working on new signalling ideas ... 17:50:23 <Celestar> and .. and .. and 17:50:38 *** dp-- [n=dp@p54B2D2BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:50:39 *** dp__ is now known as dp-- 17:51:23 * Sacro cant wiat for new signals 17:51:36 <Celestar> well, there'll hopefully be less signal types 17:51:47 <Sacro> Celestar: will it be possible to have different signals from around the world 17:52:25 <Sacro> i want more signals, not less 17:52:41 <Celestar> you can, just add grfs to replace the existing ones 17:52:57 <Sacro> Celestar: can we at least have yellow signals 17:53:07 <Celestar> this is an idea 17:53:18 <Celestar> dunno whether it'll be yellow or not, but trains will slow down 17:53:51 <peter1138> mmm, i guess we'd need to break compatibility with newgrf signals 17:53:53 <Sacro> and then could have home and distant semaphores 17:53:59 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:54:09 <Celestar> peter1138: I think so as well 17:54:37 <Sacro> well we cant always agree on everything 17:54:52 <peter1138> heh 17:54:58 <peter1138> there are a lot of signals 17:55:21 <Celestar> I'd rather have a proper signalling system (internally) then many many different signals 17:55:23 <peter1138> light, semaphore, normal, presignal, pbs, pbs+presignal 17:55:30 <peter1138> quite a lot already, heh 17:55:30 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has joined #openttd 17:55:48 <peter1138> ('cept our pbs never used the pbs+presignal ones) 17:55:48 *** christooss [n=matic@clj20-83.dial-up.arnes.si] has left #openttd [] 17:55:56 <Celestar> and KUDr and I will think of real PBS 17:56:10 <Celestar> not as in "path-based-signalling" but "pathfinding-based-signalling" 17:56:16 <peter1138> if PBS is done right, it shouldn't need extra signals 17:56:25 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80E1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:56:31 <Celestar> peter1138: I have done some premliminary ideas, you read them? 17:56:37 <peter1138> the pdf? 17:56:42 <Celestar> yeah 17:56:46 <peter1138> yeah 17:56:50 <peter1138> and cursed that it's a damn pdf :P 17:57:03 <Celestar> you can have the Tex file if you prefer :P 17:57:13 <peter1138> i'd prefer text :P 17:57:54 <Celestar> well I can do that if you wish :P 17:57:59 <Celestar> "Export to Text" 17:58:53 <Celestar> peter1138: PROPER signalling doesn't really need presignals 17:59:04 *** Aankh|Clone [n=pockled@125.23.8.19] has joined #openttd 17:59:18 <peter1138> indeed 18:00:00 <Celestar> and all the different sigtypes (with them being hard to distinguish) don't really add to gameplay 18:00:31 * Celestar thinks he should play a game 18:00:53 <Sacro> nope, i'd like to get rid of the current signalling system, research some real world ones and implement them 18:01:11 <Celestar> Sacro: i've done so 18:01:53 <Sacro> Celestar: i read your pdf when we where in #openttd.signals 18:01:57 <Celestar> Sacro: a good deal of this knowledge is in that pdf 18:02:13 <Sacro> Celestar: yeah, true 18:02:27 <Celestar> I'll improve it the coming days 18:02:34 <Celestar> anyone into a game with me using the bridge branch? 18:03:24 <KUDr> Celestar: and what about yapf merge? 18:03:59 <Celestar> KUDr: as soon as I have Darkvater's and peter1138's go, I'll merge. IF you promise that you help me with syncing bridges to make them work with yapf ;) 18:04:17 <KUDr> of course 18:04:20 <Celestar> good 18:04:40 <Celestar> Sacro: get your bridge branch a host a game :P 18:04:53 <Sacro> whats the svn command? 18:05:12 <Celestar> svn co svn://svn.openttd.org/branch/bridge 18:05:16 <Sacro> s/\/trunk/\/bridge\/branch\/? 18:05:32 <Celestar> yes 18:05:39 <Celestar> (copy the datafiles) 18:05:51 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: why not just use different regexp delimiters? 18:06:03 *** tokai|3 [n=tokai@p54B80E1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:06:06 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: a) i dont know how to, b) that looks pretty 18:06:22 <glx> Sacro: you can use what you want as delimiter 18:06:32 * Sacro doesnt know that 18:06:56 <Prof_Frink> so s|/trunk|/bridge/branch| 18:07:13 <glx> or s@/trunk@/bridge/branch@ 18:07:23 <Celestar> and how do vim know that :P 18:07:26 <Prof_Frink> besides, your original one was broken 18:07:38 <Celestar> yes 18:07:39 <Prof_Frink> you escaped the last / 18:07:43 <Celestar> yes 18:07:44 <Sacro> yeah, i just noticed that 18:07:46 <Celestar> :P 18:08:06 * Celestar notices the AM2 processors actually available 18:08:08 <Sacro> openttd would compile so much quicker if it checked what language i use 18:08:23 <Celestar> you can only build 1 language afaik 18:09:16 * Celestar also noitces the some CPU costs 2500 EUR 18:09:35 <Sacro> gcc thinks... 18:09:49 <Celestar> it DOES? 18:09:49 <KUDr> p:\proj\svn\openttd\bridges\cur\pathfind.c(274) : error C2220: warning treated as error - no 'executable' file generated 18:09:49 <KUDr> p:\proj\svn\openttd\bridges\cur\pathfind.c(274) : warning C4700: local variable 'rd' used without having been initialized 18:10:00 <Celestar> lets see 18:10:37 <Celestar> oh 18:10:52 <Celestar> Sacro: standby there might be an update 18:11:03 * Sacro stands by for an update 18:11:46 <Sacro> dunno if your interested, but mine has compiled and linked fine 18:11:53 <Celestar> yes 18:12:02 <hylje> http://194.252.88.3/rswebkuo.nsf/sivut/lintukamera 18:12:24 <Sacro> hylje: in english? 18:12:29 <hylje> pictures talk 18:12:58 <hylje> anyway, 'ts a bird with a really light camera on its head 18:13:07 <CIA-3> celestar * r4972 /branch/bridge/pathfind.c: [bridge] -Fix bug in -r4952, used a wrong variable. Thanks KUDr for finding out 18:13:20 <Celestar> ok go ahead KUDr Sacro :) 18:13:40 <Sacro> svn again? 18:13:45 <Celestar> just "svn up" 18:13:55 <KUDr> linking 18:14:02 <Sacro> done :) 18:14:20 <Celestar> Sacro: then rebuild ;) 18:14:22 <Celestar> "make" ;) 18:14:26 <KUDr> where will be the server? 18:14:27 <Sacro> done that and linked 18:14:33 <Celestar> Sacro: can you host? 18:14:46 <Sacro> Celestar: depends if my mums pc likes that idea 18:14:52 <Celestar> (what newgrfs or none?) 18:15:06 <Celestar> I can host @ work PC if you prefer 18:15:08 <Celestar> (dedicated) 18:15:16 <KUDr> hmm. No experience with newgrfs 18:15:26 <Celestar> ok then none :) 18:15:30 <Sacro> i dont have any newgrfs under bridge branch 18:15:43 <KUDr> <Celestar> I can host @ work PC if you prefer <- good idea 18:15:53 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B801C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:00 *** tokai|ni [n=tokai@p54B801C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:16:06 *** Aankhen`` [n=pockled@125.23.8.19] has quit [Connection timed out] 18:16:11 <Celestar> ok I will 18:16:18 * Celestar sshs to work 18:17:49 <Celestar> game commenced 18:17:55 <Celestar> on galadriel.td.mw.tum.de 18:18:15 <Sacro> Celestar: theres too many .'s 18:18:30 <KUDr> hmm VERSION MISMATCH 18:19:11 <Celestar> KUDr: ? 18:19:21 <Celestar> 4972 18:19:34 <KUDr> when i compile i have not proper version info 18:19:34 <Celestar> Sacro: well, it's my workstation ;) 18:19:44 <Celestar> override it somehow? 18:19:48 <KUDr> norev000 18:19:49 <Sacro> Celestar: lol 18:19:56 <KUDr> hmm, where? 18:20:03 <Celestar> good question 18:20:13 <Sacro> KUDr: make RELEASE=r4972 18:20:27 <Celestar> that's the make version 18:20:30 <Celestar> dunno about windows 18:20:31 <KUDr> i don't have make 18:20:40 <KUDr> ok, i found it 18:21:04 <KUDr> #define NOREV_STRING "r4972" 18:21:14 <Celestar> wait ... restart server 18:21:33 <Celestar> lets all play as one company? 18:22:30 <Bjarni> what goes on? 18:22:46 <Sacro> i see no server :( 18:22:56 <Sacro> Bjarni: same thing we do every night, try to take over the world 18:23:06 <Celestar> ok now 18:23:11 <KUDr> <Celestar> lets all play as one company? <- maybe - never tried coop 18:23:22 <Celestar> had to restart, too many AIs 18:23:41 <KUDr> ohh, there will be AIs? 18:23:46 <Celestar> no 18:23:51 <Celestar> it doesn't work that well 18:23:53 <Sacro> lol 18:23:59 <Celestar> ^^ 18:24:09 <Sacro> 1 company? or 3? 18:24:10 <Celestar> Bjarni: we're doing a coop game of the bridge branch to test 18:24:15 <Celestar> Sacro: I'd say 1 18:24:17 <Bjarni> ahh 18:24:29 <KUDr> Bjarni: join 18:24:32 <Bjarni> <Sacro> Bjarni: same thing we do every night, try to take over the world <-- hi pinky 18:24:52 <Bjarni> which revision? 18:24:55 <Celestar> Bjarni: comon join us .. ;) 18:25:01 <Celestar> 4972 18:25:03 <Sacro> Bjarni: didnt think you'd have seen that 18:25:06 <Celestar> branch/bridge/ 18:25:20 <Celestar> we are trying to usurp world dominace 18:25:36 <Bjarni> newest revision? 18:25:39 <Celestar> yes 18:25:43 <Bjarni> good 18:25:52 <Celestar> with dediserver 18:26:13 <MiHaMiX> LOL 18:26:26 <MiHaMiX> sign on condom machine: for refund, insert baby here 18:26:31 <Celestar> haha 18:26:37 <Bjarni> lol 18:26:56 <Sacro> MiHaMiX: hehehe, something to do next time im in the pub 18:27:18 <Bjarni> you got condom machines in the pubs? 18:27:20 *** KritiK [i=Maxim@ppp85-140-82-138.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #openttd 18:27:22 <MiHaMiX> Sacro: lol :) 18:28:19 <Bjarni> well, it have to be the condom machine.... Sacro and baby making.... that would be rape 18:29:18 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: you mean, Sacro would rape the condom machine? :D 18:31:18 <Bjarni> no, but it's certainly possible 18:31:27 <Bjarni> hey, where is the server? 18:31:34 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: which? 18:31:47 <Bjarni> the OTTD server I was told to join 18:32:03 <Bjarni> all the servers in the list got a red dot, so it's not there 18:32:04 <MiHaMiX> Bjarni: err.. I don't have the slightest idea :( 18:32:21 <Bjarni> ahh, found it 18:32:33 <Bjarni> scroll back if you need something and people left ;) 18:34:34 <MiHaMiX> ahh.. sorry, but I'm more concerned about how to handle keyboard events in non-editable XHTML objects using DOM 18:36:28 <Bjarni> dbg: [iconv] Conversion from codeset 'ISO-8859-15' to 'UTF-8-MAC' unsupported 18:36:44 <Celestar> ah? 18:36:49 <KUDr> hmm 18:37:11 <Bjarni> I think that's totally unrelated to the bridge branch though 18:37:13 <Sacro> hmmmm 18:37:44 <Bjarni> I get that one each time it tries to autosave 18:37:55 <Bjarni> but it saves anyway 18:41:14 <peter1138> 19:08 < Sacro> openttd would compile so much quicker if it checked what language i use 18:41:17 <peter1138> ^ what?/ 18:42:37 <Celestar> how do I change a patch setting during run time? 18:43:09 <Bjarni> I don't know 18:44:30 <peter1138> use the gui? :p 18:44:35 <Celestar> on a dediserver? 18:44:42 <peter1138> then "patch foo bar" 18:44:56 *** zemei [n=zemei@dsl5400E885.pool.t-online.hu] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:45:05 <Sacro> peter1138: im english, so i only need english.lng 18:45:28 <Bjarni> it takes virtually no time to compile all the lng files, so who cares? 18:45:33 <Bjarni> (besides you) 18:45:57 <Celestar> patch realistic_acceleration 1 18:45:58 <Celestar> 'realistic_acceleration' changed to: off 18:46:28 <KUDr> hmm 18:46:32 <KUDr> off? 18:46:46 <peter1138> Sacro: uh, yeah, the lang files takes about 3 seconds compared to minutes for the rest, for me 18:47:10 <Celestar> 1 != off :S 18:48:08 <Sacro> peter1138: oh well 18:55:35 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 18:58:03 *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@81.166.137.5] has quit [] 18:59:04 <Celestar> hm 18:59:09 <Celestar> didn't have that bug before 18:59:17 <Celestar> maybe it was some merge :( 18:59:19 <KUDr> with that signal? 18:59:28 <Celestar> yes 19:00:14 <KUDr> crazy 19:00:42 <Celestar> shall we go on, or should I try to repair that first? ;) 19:01:05 <KUDr> save/repair/continue 19:02:21 <Celestar> lol 19:02:27 <Celestar> I have a savegame 19:02:39 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:04:06 <KUDr> so updating signals doesn't pass thru bridge 19:04:38 <Celestar> nope 19:04:42 <SpComb> quakenet died? 19:04:43 <Celestar> debugging 19:04:52 *** Angst [n=Angst@p54945C3D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["weg"] 19:05:34 <Darkvater> &yawn& 19:05:35 <Darkvater> hmm 19:05:40 <Darkvater> s/*/&/g 19:05:58 <peter1138> indeed 19:06:19 <hylje> i concur 19:06:28 <Celestar> hey Darkvater 19:06:47 <peter1138> wow, this is evil 19:06:55 <Celestar> what is? 19:06:56 <Darkvater> you guys should really learn how to use svn ;) 19:06:57 * Darkvater hides 19:07:01 <Celestar> Darkvater: ? 19:07:21 <Darkvater> god fucking ms office 19:07:26 <Darkvater> can't even open oo-files 19:07:39 <peter1138> Celestar: this callback 1D modification i'm doing 19:07:45 <Celestar> peter1138: I see 19:07:49 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:07:51 <peter1138> ttdp only lets you attach wagons to a train one at a time 19:08:02 <peter1138> so i have to check each wagon individually 19:08:19 <Celestar> ah 19:08:30 <Darkvater> Celestar: about you guys wanting copy&move instead of merge 19:08:37 <Darkvater> or whatever the discusion was about 19:08:37 <Celestar> KUDr: found the problem. 19:08:45 <Celestar> Darkvater: 1) I don't want to do that 19:08:46 <KUDr> good time 19:08:54 <peter1138> this involves actually attaching the wagons temporarily 19:09:02 <Celestar> Darkvater: 2) Tron fucked up the creation of the bridge branch 19:09:49 <Celestar> KUDr: r4900 is the problem 19:09:50 <Celestar> :( 19:10:04 <KUDr> hmm 19:10:07 <Celestar> it fixes one problem but causes another 19:10:37 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:10:43 <Darkvater> Celestar: what'd he do? 19:10:51 <Celestar> Darkvater: he didn't svn cp 19:10:57 <Darkvater> Celestar: what'd he do? 19:11:00 <Celestar> Darkvater: but just commit his local working copy 19:11:10 <Darkvater> *sad* 19:11:17 <Darkvater> :( 19:11:26 <Celestar> but I can somehow override it 19:11:31 <Darkvater> and you can't merge now? 19:11:41 <Celestar> well with some tricks ... 19:12:02 <Darkvater> what you can do is just copy all the source files over to a trunk checkout which will create a big diff :) 19:12:07 <Darkvater> ugly, but works 19:12:08 *** Mizipzor [n=mizipzor@c-528571d5.01-15-73746f6.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 19:12:19 <Celestar> Darkvater: yeah I know 19:12:24 <Celestar> Darkvater: but first r4900 19:12:25 <Darkvater> Only do it if brdige/ is totally up-to-date though 19:12:40 <Darkvater> don't forget to _delete_ the bridge branch after you are done 19:12:43 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:12:46 <Darkvater> we should do the same to the network branch 19:12:50 <Celestar> Darkvater: yes, and create a new one ... 19:12:58 <Celestar> Darkvater: why delete the network brnahc? 19:13:02 <Celestar> branch* 19:14:05 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.1/2006040505]"] 19:14:08 <Celestar> Darkvater: it works with a track, merge from one version BEFORE the creation of the branch 19:14:14 <Celestar> trick* 19:14:20 *** tokai|noir [n=tokai@p54B80E1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["It's like, wah."] 19:15:08 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B80E1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:15:13 <Celestar> I don't fully get the problem 19:15:17 * Celestar goes trying something 19:15:45 <peter1138> branch/bridge (copied from trunk) 19:16:08 <peter1138> looks like a copy to me 19:16:10 <KUDr> Darkvater: why delete the branch after join? It would cause the lost of history or not? 19:16:16 <Celestar> peter1138: but not an unmodified one ... 19:16:36 <peter1138> Celestar: ah, i see 19:16:43 <peter1138> it's a copy *and* his original changes 19:16:49 <Celestar> that's the problem 19:16:58 <Celestar> but as a said, merge from one revision below 19:17:08 <peter1138> branch/bridge/BUGS 19:17:09 <peter1138> r4150 r4427 19:17:16 <peter1138> o_O 19:17:28 <peter1138> hmm 19:17:30 <peter1138> nvm 19:17:45 <peter1138> i'm still not entirely sure what difference it's supposed to make 19:17:56 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 19:18:27 <peter1138> hmm 19:18:29 *** Mizipzor [n=mizipzor@c-528571d5.01-15-73746f6.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:18:36 <peter1138> right, now i can't attach freight wagons to an ice-3 19:18:39 <peter1138> this is good 19:19:29 <Celestar> good peter1138 19:20:29 <Sacro> have a biscuit 19:21:12 <peter1138> but it's... damn. ugly. 19:21:12 <Celestar> I need help with SignalVehicleCheck 19:21:17 * valhallasw notes #openttd stalled at 11:00 and tries /scroll end 19:21:18 *** Aankh|Clone [n=pockled@125.23.8.19] has quit [Success] 19:22:05 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/o/callback1Dloop.diff 19:23:27 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:24:21 *** Triffid_Hunter [n=Splat@funkmunch.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:25:50 *** |Jeroen| [n=jeroen@dD57729D4.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 19:26:34 <Celestar> KUDr: do you have any idea about that bug? 19:27:37 <Celestar> BAAH 19:27:51 <Celestar> something is wrong with 1) gdb's thread handling or 2) openttds saving 19:29:12 <KUDr> hmm 19:29:22 <Belugas> peter1138 : Pseudo code ... Pffffff 19:29:33 <KUDr> which bug (bridge/signal)? 19:29:41 <glx> Celestar: GetOtherBridgeEnd() maybe 19:30:44 <glx> it uses GetBridgeRampDirection(), but I'm not sure SignalVehicleCheck() is on a bridge ramp when it calls GetOtherBridgeEnd() 19:32:13 <Darkvater> Celestar: gdb. it works here 19:32:54 *** Neonox [n=Neonox@ip-80-226-210-113.vodafone-net.de] has quit ["muss wech"] 19:33:21 <Bjarni> guys, I just noticed that all of you left :( 19:33:33 <Bjarni> I built a huge rail empire and you just left 19:33:45 <Celestar> WTF=! 19:33:50 <peter1138> we left? 19:33:52 <Darkvater> KUDr: you don't lose any history whatsoever. The branch is only not visible in HEAD. 19:33:53 <Celestar> KUDr: maybe I have it 19:33:53 <peter1138> Belugas: :D 19:34:02 <KUDr> Bjarni: it disconnected me 19:34:12 <Darkvater> KUDr: remember: with SVN and CVS as well you can never delete anything unrecoverably 19:34:21 <Celestar> or not ... 19:34:21 <Darkvater> (let's forget hacking at the source database for a minute) 19:34:34 <KUDr> Darkvater: aha, then good 19:34:40 <Darkvater> http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.1/ch04s07.html 19:34:47 <Darkvater> see there for example 19:36:47 <KUDr> thanks 19:39:30 <Celestar> back in a few 19:39:59 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:39:59 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 19:40:08 <Celestar> trying to find that bug 19:45:51 *** Zahl [n=SENFGURK@dslb-082-083-214-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:47:41 <Bjarni> ok, I left the server as well 19:47:55 <Bjarni> it became too annoying to start all the trains near the bridges all the time 19:48:01 <Bjarni> I ended up doing nothing else :( 19:50:22 <Celestar> hehe 19:50:41 <Celestar> I'm already working on it .. so wait 19:51:03 <Bjarni> apart from that, the railroads ended up getting interconnected and I sent 20 unit trains from one end to the other (with full load) 19:51:38 <Celestar> hehe 19:51:54 <Celestar> any anomylies apart from the bridge-signal thingy? 19:51:55 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:52:43 <Bjarni> one train had problems finding it's route, but it didn't even have bridges o_O 19:52:52 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:52:52 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 19:53:54 <Bjarni> but apart from the lack up update of signal blocks across bridges, the bridges appeared to work rather well 19:54:29 <Bjarni> I had a station with limited room for access, so I build a bridge over the access track in the same direction, so trains queued up in two layers 19:54:34 <Bjarni> that worked rather well 19:54:50 <Bjarni> the lower layer had signals, that I placed after the bridge was build and they worked 19:55:10 <Bjarni> I think the bridge even had a train on it when I build them 19:55:44 <Bjarni> now that will need some thinking on how to take advantage of such options 19:57:47 <Sionide> Bjarni, got a screenshot of that? 20:00:22 <Bjarni> no, but I can make one from autosave 20:00:27 <Bjarni> one moment 20:03:46 <Bjarni> Sionide: http://www.student.dtu.dk/~s991088/dual_layer_access.png 20:04:28 <hylje> :o 20:04:36 <Sionide> aaaaawwwesome 20:05:09 <hylje> what next? truly free-form signal positions? 20:05:57 <Bjarni> under that bridge is: two turns, one switch and two signals 20:06:10 <Celestar> KUDr: I can't find the bug :( 20:06:19 <KUDr> hmm 20:06:20 <Bjarni> NNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! 20:06:28 <KUDr> i will try it 20:06:38 <Celestar> KUDr: revision 4900 has something to do with it 20:06:57 <KUDr> i will try to make minimal case 20:07:02 <KUDr> and trace it 20:07:14 <Celestar> I have a minimal case 20:07:15 <Celestar> wait 20:07:59 <hylje> shouldnt portage get a newer stable openttd anytime soon 20:08:54 <Celestar> KUDr: http://www.fvfischer.de/ottd/bug0001.sav 20:09:03 <Celestar> KUDr: and have a look at 4900 20:09:03 <KUDr> ok 20:09:08 <Celestar> it is somewhere there methinks 20:09:29 <Celestar> (I got some stuff to do, if you find anything just drop it by private message) 20:09:39 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [i=johekr@p54B760DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:02 <KUDr> ok 20:10:32 * Celestar goes testing his new server 20:11:04 *** Osai^2_ [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:11:29 <Celestar> nite peops :) 20:11:53 <Bjarni> wow, it's night already 20:11:59 <Bjarni> night Celestar 20:12:10 <KUDr> gn 20:15:30 *** ShadowJK [n=jk@208.53.150.226] has joined #openttd 20:16:45 <Belugas> lies, there is still a bright sunshine here 20:17:25 <Bjarni> see 20:17:36 <Bjarni> Celestar got a weird internal clock :P 20:20:48 <Belugas> I did not said that :) 20:21:41 <Bjarni> still, that's what you meant 20:22:13 <Belugas> No mister, simply that the sun was shining here :) 20:22:14 <Belugas> Although I personally feel like going to bed myself o_O 20:22:41 <Belugas> I hate those days where the only thing you can do is real work... 20:23:16 <Bjarni> yeah, that sucks 20:23:26 <Bjarni> nobody do any real work anymore 20:23:33 <Bjarni> it's so old fashioned 20:24:07 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:29:21 *** Eddi|zuHause [i=johekr@p54B7658A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:31:56 <KUDr> Celestar: pathfind.c: 275 Celestar: change it to: tile = tile_end; 20:32:16 <KUDr> and problem is solved 20:32:29 <Bjarni> \o/ 20:32:38 <KUDr> was easy 20:32:58 <glx> KUDr knows everything in pathfind.c :) 20:33:05 <Bjarni> go ahead and commit it 20:33:17 <Bjarni> so I can use it :D 20:33:24 <KUDr> no, but this was eyebreaking 20:33:36 <KUDr> small typo 20:33:55 <KUDr> swapped left and right in assignment 20:34:16 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 20:34:39 *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone 20:34:59 <Belugas_Gone> good night 20:35:10 <Sacro> night Belugas_Gone 20:35:32 *** Ibigoo [i=Ibigoo@82-77-102-185.cable-modem.hdsnet.hu] has joined #openttd 20:35:37 <Ibigoo> good evening 20:36:08 <Bjarni> KUDr: still waiting for your commit. You seem sure that it's the right thing to do, so it's worth committing 20:36:22 <Bjarni> hi Hitchcock... errr Ibigoo 20:36:29 <KUDr> I wait for Celestar 20:36:34 <KUDr> but... 20:36:42 <KUDr> he seems to be sleeping 20:36:43 <Bjarni> Celestar already said goodnight, so he might not return 20:36:49 <KUDr> aha 20:38:40 *** Brianetta [n=brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:38:50 <glx> KUDr: did you see the comment "// TODO doesn't work - WHAT doesn't work?" ? 20:38:59 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:39:08 *** [Shaman] [n=nnscript@ip503c1f52.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:39:18 <Bjarni> nice comment 20:39:49 <KUDr> glx: don't understand 20:40:09 <KUDr> ahaaa! 20:40:16 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 20:40:17 <KUDr> nice 20:40:52 <glx> and the typo was added in r 4952 20:40:56 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4973 /branch/bridge/pathfind.c: [bridge] -Fix: UpdateSignalsOnSegment() can't pass bridge 20:43:13 <Ibigoo> good night 20:43:15 *** Ibigoo [i=Ibigoo@82-77-102-185.cable-modem.hdsnet.hu] has quit [] 20:43:21 <Celestar> not yet sleeping 20:44:08 <Bjarni> it works 20:44:41 <glx> yeah now I can't crash trains on bridge 20:44:55 *** egladil [n=egladil@frukt.csbnet.se] has joined #openttd 20:44:59 <Bjarni> it didn't help the already jammed trains, but a force pass signal click fixed it and then it works for the next train, that arrives 20:46:10 <KUDr> yes - exactly as expected 20:46:59 <Celestar> glx: what about that comment? 20:47:35 <glx> the comment says it doesn't work, and that was true 20:47:59 <Celestar> well the comment is from before ;) 20:49:01 <Celestar> KUDr fixed the bridge bug, anyone in for another game? ;) 20:49:18 <KUDr> heh, can try 20:49:19 <glx> I could try but only if NPF is off 20:49:25 <Celestar> ok 20:49:45 <Celestar> game started @ galadriel.td.mw.tum.de 20:49:52 <KUDr> we should merge yapf + bridge 20:49:55 <Celestar> yes 20:50:02 <Sacro> yes*2 20:50:08 *** valhallasw is now known as valhalleia 20:51:42 <valhalleia> yes**2 :p 20:58:27 *** Triffid_Hunter [n=Splat@funkmunch.net] has joined #openttd 21:02:21 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:04:49 *** Nubian [n=nubian@193.93.73.116] has joined #openttd 21:05:58 *** roboman [n=Leo@c211-30-120-103.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:10:58 <Celestar> Darkvater: bug report 0.4.8 coming 21:14:02 <anboni> omg.. i have one two with 22000 people... and the only thing servicing that town is a train picking up oil from an oil well... 21:18:30 *** Jenkz [n=nobody@80-192-44-21.cable.ubr05.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:18:50 <anboni> and another omg... my savegame is seriously messed up 21:19:04 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:19:43 *** Trippledence_ [n=Trippled@cust183-dsl52.idnet.net] has joined #openttd 21:19:52 *** e1ko [n=31k0@a02-0432c.kn.vutbr.cz] has joined #openttd 21:22:25 <anboni> wow.. i think something broke in the most recent yapf trunk 21:22:30 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B80E1D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"] 21:23:58 <KUDr> anboni: did you enter new bug report? 21:24:13 <anboni> not yet, still trying to figure out what's happening exactly :) 21:24:26 <KUDr> ok 21:26:02 <anboni> bingo 21:26:25 <anboni> KUDr: is it ok if i give you a savegame that'll exhibit a problem after a few minutes of it running with yapf enabled? 21:26:58 *** valhalle1a [n=valhalla@dsl68-30.fastxdsl.nl] has joined #openttd 21:27:00 <KUDr> perfect - attach it to the bug report please 21:27:06 <anboni> willdo 21:27:15 <KUDr> and brief description 21:27:23 <anboni> of course :) 21:34:19 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498D045.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Ciao"] 21:35:31 <Darkvater> Celestar: ? 21:37:07 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 21:37:14 *** Zr40_ [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 21:39:18 <Bjarni> celestar is playing 21:39:24 *** valhalleia [n=valhalla@dsl68-30.fastxdsl.nl] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:39:25 <Bjarni> join the game and start to chat ;) 21:39:35 <Bjarni> otherwise he is unreachable 21:39:55 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 21:40:25 <Celestar> Darkvater: branch/bridge is now playtested, AItested and MP-tested 21:41:00 <Sacro> brb 21:41:03 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"] 21:41:04 *** Forexs [i=Forexs@x1-6-00-0f-b5-14-63-5f.k136.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 21:41:45 <Bjarni> goodnight 21:41:47 *** Bjarni [n=Bjarni@0x535ca2d5.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit ["Leaving"] 21:42:25 <Celestar> nite 21:42:30 <Celestar> whoops 21:42:30 *** [Shaman] [n=nnscript@ip503c1f52.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 21:42:33 <glx> night Celestar 21:43:02 <glx> or it was for Bjarni :) 21:43:49 *** SchAmane [n=schamane@p5498F6E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:43:52 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:44:51 <Celestar> it was for Bjarni 21:44:57 <Celestar> we could stop the game and continue tomorrow? 21:45:00 <Celestar> (= 21:52:20 <glx> Celestar: it's not paused 21:52:44 <glx> :) 21:53:38 *** Zr40 [n=Zirconiu@zr40.xs4all.nl] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:54:24 <Sacro> need pause on no clients 21:54:42 <glx> Sacro: code it :) 21:54:53 <Sacro> glx: its already in trunk 21:55:56 <anboni> KUDr: report has been submitted. if you want me to test anything with a different build, shoot me a /msg 21:56:12 <KUDr> thanks 21:56:20 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:56:44 *** Scia [n=sciapode@AveloN.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:59:48 *** valhalleia [n=valhalla@dsl68-30.fastxdsl.nl] has joined #openttd 22:00:54 <Celestar> WEEE 22:01:09 * Celestar has something nice here (hopefully) 22:01:58 <Celestar> does dediserver need SDL? 22:02:21 <glx> normally no 22:02:53 <Sacro> Celestar: didnt you go to bed? 22:03:03 <Celestar> not yet 22:03:46 <Celestar> bah crap 22:04:17 <Sacro> lol 22:08:23 <Celestar> something is wrong 22:08:42 <Celestar> it builds the languages. 22:08:49 <Celestar> but not the binary 22:09:08 <Celestar> I mean no error message or anything 22:09:13 <anboni> i had to do a 'make clean' on the yapf branch earlier to get 4973 to build 22:09:18 <anboni> although i did get an error 22:09:30 *** Magus_X [i=t7DS@201-40-177-110.paebv700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 22:10:17 <Celestar> I think our SunOS build is severly broken :P 22:10:28 <Magus_X> yo! 22:10:38 <Sacro> who runs SunOS? 22:10:40 <anboni> that's another option i guess :) i'm using linux (fc5) 22:10:44 <Sacro> hi Magus_X 22:10:46 <Magus_X> hi Sacro 22:10:57 <Celestar> Sacro: my test server does 22:10:58 <Sacro> <- linux (arch) 22:11:06 <Celestar> because of the lack of another OS that works 22:11:12 <Sacro> Celestar: ah right, ive never used it 22:11:18 <Magus_X> <- Knoppix 22:11:23 <Magus_X> <- and WINXP 22:11:27 <anboni> wow, you mean there's hardware out there that linux doesn't run on?:) 22:11:37 <Celestar> anboni: well, 2.6.16 boots 22:11:49 <Celestar> FreeBSD boots and installs 99% 22:11:55 <anboni> dohg 22:12:01 <Sacro> Celestar: what more do you want? a kernel, and openttd on top :) 22:12:12 <Celestar> Sacro: I'd at least need a compiler :P 22:12:23 <anboni> crosscompile :) 22:12:31 <Sacro> code in binary 22:12:47 <Celestar> what about just fixing the Makefile we HAVE? :P 22:13:04 <anboni> nah, that'd be too easy :) 22:13:09 *** valhalle1a [n=valhalla@dsl68-30.fastxdsl.nl] has quit [Connection timed out] 22:13:59 <Sacro> Celestar: well thats an idea 22:14:24 <rain```> hey 22:14:44 <Celestar> gaah 22:14:45 <rain```> is it true that a station's raw material facilities will 'grow' if your station rating in that product is between 60-75%? 22:14:54 <Celestar> it doesn't build any object files 22:14:56 <rain```> or is it "has a chance to grow" 22:15:27 <Celestar> Makefile.config isn't generated as well 22:15:40 <anboni> rain: i think there was a thread on that subject on the forums recently(ish) 22:16:09 <anboni> i kinda only remember the 60-75% part, not the details, but try a search, probably in general forum 22:16:21 <rain```> yeah I know but I was confused as to what they were actually using 22:16:28 <anboni> ah :) 22:16:30 <rain```> openttd out of the box or nightly build or some new patches or... 22:16:49 <anboni> cant help you there, i'm afraid 22:16:51 <rain```> and whether or not smooth economy option affects it etc 22:17:26 <rain```> i seem to have a habbit of turning industries into shithouses, they start at maybe 100 tons/month and after I'm done with them they hover between 32-48 22:17:36 <anboni> lol 22:17:56 <rain```> and i had one farm that managed to produce like 300 grain 22:17:58 <anboni> to be honest, i generaly enabled to cheat to set production levels manually 22:17:59 <rain```> but only 32 livestock... 22:18:04 <rain```> oooo 22:18:31 <anboni> my challenge is in building complex and efficient networks.. not getting service levels to exactly that target :) 22:18:42 <anboni> (or rather, it seems my challenge lately is to break yapf :) ) 22:18:52 <rain```> >< 22:18:57 <rain```> is yapf in nightly build? 22:18:58 *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 22:19:07 <KUDr> anboni: it is good 22:19:08 <anboni> it's a seperate branch atm 22:19:25 <anboni> if you're running windows, there's a premade binary 22:19:32 <rain```> i am 22:19:32 <KUDr> anboni: you did good job 22:19:36 <anboni> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24703 22:19:38 <rain```> ill have to check it out then :P 22:19:41 <Celestar> BAH 22:19:43 <anboni> KUDr: find anything already? 22:19:47 <glx> Celestar: indeed 'patch' is not intended to work with on or off only 0 or 1 22:19:55 <KUDr> not yet 22:19:57 <Celestar> thou shalt not forget critical files 22:20:44 <Celestar> generating DEPS 22:20:58 <glx> that's a good start 22:21:13 <Celestar> hm ... 22:21:18 <RichK67> hi 22:21:19 <Celestar> ifaddrs.h missing 22:24:14 <Celestar> BAH 22:24:15 <Celestar> BAD 22:24:42 <Celestar> well try this tomorrow again 22:24:45 <Celestar> good night 22:24:51 <RichK67> cya 22:24:52 <glx> night Celestar 22:24:58 <anboni> night celes 22:25:03 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:25:04 <Celestar> have fun 22:25:08 <Sacro> night Celestar 22:28:06 <Magus_X> what's the diference 22:28:15 <Magus_X> of YAPF and default pF? 22:28:52 <anboni> from what i understand, yapf is a complete rewrite in C++ with main goal being to reduce cpu usage 22:28:53 <glx> Magus_X: there's actually 2 pf for trains : NTP and NPF 22:29:11 <Magus_X> what's the diference? in simple words? 22:29:13 <glx> NTP is CPU friendly but not accurate 22:29:28 <glx> NPF is accurate, but kill slow CPU 22:29:42 <Magus_X> h... 22:29:46 <Magus_X> hm... 22:29:52 <glx> YAPF is accurate and more CPU friendly than NPF 22:29:53 <anboni> and glx is a lot better at explaining these things than me :) 22:30:03 <KUDr> and YAPF is slow and inaccurate :) 22:30:09 <anboni> lol 22:30:11 <Magus_X> Hey, glx: interesting... 22:30:53 *** Dred_furst [i=nn@84.65.173.37] has quit ["( www.nnscript.de :: NoNameScript 4.0 :: www.XLhost.de )"] 22:31:12 <glx> KUDr: at leats with YAPF I can use my mouse (not the case with NPF if there's many trains :) ) 22:31:40 <KUDr> glx: i am sorry for that mistake :) 22:32:14 <anboni> hmm... a bunch of trains i tossed in to work out the details of the previous yapf bug i found are blocking my mainline now, queued up for the station :/ 22:40:17 *** Sacro__ [n=Sacro@87.102.23.160] has joined #openttd 22:41:22 *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-87-102-35-187.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:41:23 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:51:45 *** Mukke [n=Mukke@x1-6-00-13-8f-3d-00-a9.k146.webspeed.dk] has quit [] 23:02:30 *** Joz [n=joz@a80-186-176-164.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 23:17:54 *** Osai^2_ [n=Osai@p54B36BB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:17:59 *** ProfFrink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 23:21:20 *** ^Cartman^ [n=Eric_Car@ti100710a081-5882.bb.online.no] has quit ["Bunchie!"] 23:22:50 <Sacro__> hum, /me doesnt have subversion 23:23:51 <CIA-3> KUDr * r4974 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: [YAPF] Fix: FS#188 - trains lost when segments longer than 100 tiles. Introduced by r4961. (thanks anboni) 23:25:17 <Sacro__> KUDr: dont you sleep? 23:26:04 *** GoneWacko [n=gonewack@c18041.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit ["It's a new quit message!"] 23:26:08 <KUDr> Yes, i am sleeping already. Woak up with idea where the mistake could be and returned to PC 23:26:44 <KUDr> it was terrible error 23:27:00 <KUDr> f*cking mistake 23:27:32 <Sacro__> KUDr: log off :) 23:27:42 <KUDr> heh 23:29:06 <KUDr> closing bug 23:29:24 <KUDr> well, good night 23:30:35 *** Prof_Frink [n=proffrin@cpc1-shep3-0-0-cust920.leic.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:33:25 *** finals [n=fevered@tor/session/external/x-479533888b07aa05] has joined #openttd 23:34:24 *** finals [n=fevered@tor/session/external/x-479533888b07aa05] has left #openttd [] 23:35:46 <Sacro__> night mate 23:41:21 *** Andrew67 [i=andrew67@206.248.80.224] has joined #openttd 23:46:21 *** tokai [n=tokai@p54B84C95.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:50:32 *** valhalleia is now known as valhallasw 23:54:45 <XeryusTC> heya Sacro__