Log for #openttd on 25th May 2006:
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00:00:25  <Sacro__> hey XeryusTC
00:00:29  *** Sacro__ is now known as Sacro
00:00:36  <XeryusTC> sup?
00:01:12  <Sacro> XeryusTC: just playing some nightly, you?
00:01:48  <XeryusTC> i just got out of a coop game and am now managing some online text based games
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00:03:30  <Sacro> cool
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00:08:20  <XeryusTC> well, it's actually quite boring atm
00:12:25  <Sacro> aww
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00:58:11  <Sacro> happy towel day people
01:10:44  <gradator> happy towel ;)
01:12:28  <Sacro> night gradator  :)
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06:13:04  <Celestar> hm
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06:31:52  <peter1138> hi
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07:15:02  <Celestar> morning
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07:26:34  <roboman> hello
07:27:04  <Celestar> what's goin?
07:41:02  <Darkvater> 00:29 < glx> NTP is CPU friendly but not accurate < NTP is accurate! It uses the same algorithm as NPF (A*), just behaves slightly differently
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07:50:24  <peter1138> why was i thinking of time servers then?
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07:57:02  <Celestar> Darkvater: yes, like doesn't always find the best path ..
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08:03:41  * roboman dinner
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08:15:19  <peter1138> Oh dear, my boss is out all day.
08:16:17  <KUDr> happy man!
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08:37:42  <roboman> stuoid rvs
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08:42:47  <Celestar> peter1138: goood ;)
08:43:18  <anboni> morning
08:44:02  <anboni> hmmm.. after updating to yapf r4974, loading a savegame from 4950 throws an assert...
08:45:20  <KUDr> anboni: yes. it is OK
08:45:37  <KUDr> it was not compatible - was step aside
08:45:43  <KUDr> my mistake
08:45:48  <anboni> oh
08:45:56  <anboni> so, should i wait for 4974?
08:45:59  <anboni> erm.. 4975
08:46:03  <KUDr> no
08:46:11  <KUDr> it will not be compatible
08:46:57  <anboni> and if i'd load the 4950 savegame into 4973, then save it and load into 4974?
08:47:13  *** Xeryus|bed is now known as XeryusTC
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08:47:38  <anboni> btw, thanks for fixing another bug this fast, KUDr :)
08:47:51  <KUDr> 4948 to 4956 had incompatible format
08:48:19  <anboni> but loading 4950 into 4973 worked fine
08:48:43  <KUDr> heh, i am glad to have good testers - team work is fine - thanks for report
08:49:11  <KUDr> <anboni> but loading 4950 into 4973 worked fine <- dunno why - it shouldn't
08:49:17  <anboni> lol
08:49:21  <anboni> that's a comforting thought :)
08:49:32  <KUDr> but if it works, use 4973 as bridge
08:49:37  <anboni> yeah, compiling it now
08:49:43  <KUDr> ok
08:49:47  <KUDr> enjoy
08:49:56  <KUDr> i must go to work
08:49:59  <anboni> but maybe i changed something in my game last night that made it incompatible
08:50:07  <anboni> ok, have a good day
08:50:15  <KUDr> you too
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08:58:19  <Celestar> samegames in branches are not needed to be compatible
08:58:30  <Celestar> 100% savegame compatiblity is only in trunk
08:59:09  <peter1138> even then, not guaranteed
08:59:18  <anboni> yeah, i realize that.. looks like worst case, i'll loose a few hours of changes to my network that i made last night
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08:59:41  <Celestar> peter1138: it should be, at least for the releases
08:59:41  <peter1138> only save games from releases *must* load, right?
09:01:08  <anboni> crap, last night's 4950 savegame doesnt load into 4973 either.. bummer
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09:04:25  <Leissi> moarning
09:05:55  <Celestar> peter1138: savegames from release most load always
09:06:01  <Celestar> peter1138: savegames from trunk/ should load
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09:07:53  <anboni> hmm.. wonder if i could strap the loading part of 4950 to 4974 and convert my savegame that way :)
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09:11:47  <roboman> bye
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09:14:55  <peter1138> Celestar: yeah, should.
09:16:24  <Bjarni> I just did some profiling on one of those savegames from the forum, that people said was running slowly. It appears that the most CPU demanding part of our code in this case is DistanceManhattan(TileIndex t0, TileIndex t1)
09:16:58  <Bjarni> where dy uses like 7 times as much CPU as dx
09:17:05  <Bjarni> don't ask me why
09:18:34  <Bjarni> another one to eat a lot of CPU is 	Town *ClosestTownFromTile(TileIndex tile, uint threshold)
09:20:07  <anboni> if that function does what i think the name says it does, i'd think that's something that could be easily cached and just refresh it every so many cycles
09:21:40  <peter1138> Bjarni: you don't know why dy takes longer than dx?
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09:22:12  <Bjarni> 6.1%	132		const uint dx = abs(TileX(t0) - TileX(t1));
09:22:13  <Bjarni> 6.1%	132		const uint dx = abs(TileX(t0) - TileX(t1));
09:22:16  <Bjarni> oops
09:22:24  <peter1138> Bjarni: hint, one x change is 1, one y change is maxx
09:22:24  <Bjarni> 40.9%	133		const uint dy = abs(TileY(t0) - TileY(t1));
09:22:42  <Celestar> bah
09:22:45  <Celestar> we need PBS
09:23:10  <Bjarni> ahh, so dx is usually in the same block in the map array, while dy can easily be in another one
09:23:13  <Bjarni> that makes sense
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09:23:43  <peter1138> is that a debug or release build, btw?
09:23:47  <Bjarni> yet, those two functions use like 1/3 of the total CPU time
09:23:53  <Bjarni> release
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09:24:49  <peter1138> Bjarni: a more important question is, what is calling DistanceManhattan() so often?
09:25:11  <peter1138> because DistanceManhattan is the simplest distance calculation we've got
09:25:28  <Bjarni> yeah, that's a good question
09:26:53  <Celestar> what are we talking about?
09:27:32  <Xaroth> PF
09:27:39  <Bjarni> but I think we could gain the most from optimising town_cmd.c:1754. That loop takes up a whole lot of CPU time (even if I exclude the call to DistanceManhatten())
09:28:44  <peter1138> it shouldn't do
09:28:45  <Bjarni> Celestar: I just did some profiling and it turns out that distanceManhatten and 	*ClosestTownFromTile()			 uses like 1/3 of the total CPU time in a savegame somebody reported as running slowly
09:28:55  <peter1138> hmm
09:29:07  <peter1138> i suppose on a ginormous map there'll be a lot of towns
09:29:35  <Xaroth> oh yeh, an idea/suggestion
09:29:42  <Xaroth> with the editor
09:29:51  <Xaroth> once you click 'generate random towns
09:29:58  <Xaroth> it generates a fuckload of towns
09:29:59  <Bjarni> <--- it's the wolf1 one (the last one)
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09:30:36  <Xaroth> maybe add something to limit that.. now the density of towns in big maps is quite high
09:30:54  <MatryxWrk> The same with industries - it'd be nice to be able to select, even just vaguely, an amount to generate
09:31:05  <MatryxWrk> many random industries seems to try and make one of each industry for each town ;)
09:31:09  <MatryxWrk> at least, that's my impression :)
09:31:11  <Bjarni> yeah, it's a pretty big map with a lot of towns
09:32:16  <peter1138> clearly a better computer is required :D
09:32:20  <Bjarni> the random map generator should place industries completely random now that we can place more than one of each type near each town
09:32:52  <Bjarni> maybe placing them in groups, like this is the area with coal in the underground and so on (for natural resources only)
09:33:08  <peter1138> that's only a patch option of course
09:33:34  <Bjarni> yeah, but we could make a new map generator, that relies on such a patch option
09:33:42  <Bjarni> and btw, why are they called patch options?
09:33:53  <MatryxWrk> optional patches :D
09:34:08  <Bjarni> I meant, why patches
09:34:16  <MatryxWrk> so you don't *have* to play with it
09:34:24  <Bjarni> it's not like we are patching the source with those features. They are a part of the source
09:34:32  <Prof_Frink> You don't *have* to play with anything
09:34:44  <MatryxWrk> patches can be switched on or off, but aren't part of the core game, I guess.
09:34:56  <Bjarni> you are aiming at the optional part of the name. I meant why patches?
09:35:08  <MatryxWrk> because they aren't part of the core game ^^
09:35:10  <Prof_Frink> I think it was because originally that window had only TTDPatch-like features
09:35:38  <Bjarni> I think we should rename it. We don't use patches at all
09:36:08  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: you should merge patch opts, game opts and diff. settings into one dialogue
09:36:35  <Prof_Frink> Have them as tabs on what is now the "Patch opts" dialogue
09:36:55  <peter1138> we should strip out a lot of useless patch options, imho
09:37:07  <peter1138> of course, then we'll be accused of restricting choice
09:37:11  <Bjarni> and mark those, who affect network games, and those, who don't. You can use whatever language you want in MP, while drive on left/right have to be the same
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09:37:21  <MatryxWrk> peter1138: it's a win win scenario ;)
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09:37:46  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	we should strip out a lot of useless patch options, imho <-- we have talked about doing that for a long time, but nobody have done it
09:37:46  <anboni> Bjarni: how about a tickbox to simply hide all the options that shouldn't be available in a network game?
09:37:47  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: And maybe another tab on it: Player defaults
09:38:04  <MatryxWrk> but don't forget, you guys are the developers, it is your call to remove superflous stuff, if someone wants it back, they can always patch it themselves.
09:38:25  <peter1138> Bjarni: i know
09:38:31  <Prof_Frink> Rather than at the start of every game telling it "I want to be called *this*, I want company name *that* and I want to be Red"
09:39:08  <peter1138> er
09:39:10  <Bjarni> hey, I'm the red company, so you get to select another one
09:39:12  <peter1138> i never set those anyway :)
09:39:19  <Bjarni> I'm a dev, so I decide
09:39:26  <Bjarni> I was just told that ;)
09:39:37  <MatryxWrk> =D
09:40:04  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: It would have to be first-come first-served in network games
09:40:16  <Prof_Frink> If your default is taken, choose at random
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09:40:42  <Bjarni> we need accounts in the central server, so we can give ourselves admin accounts
09:41:01  <Xaroth> <@Bjarni> <peter1138>Iwe should strip out a lot of useless patch options, imho <-- we have talked about doing that for
09:41:09  <Xaroth> Bjarni
09:41:12  <Xaroth> how about a config setting
09:41:18  <Xaroth> Advanced_Settings = 0
09:41:19  <peter1138> no
09:41:21  <peter1138> no no no :P
09:41:23  <MatryxWrk> a config setting to hide config settings?
09:41:26  <MatryxWrk> tsk tsk Xaroth
09:41:27  <hylje> :X
09:41:40  <Bjarni> well, the problem will go away once peter1138 finishes those two colours thing. Then we can select way more colour combos, so odds of having the same will be way less
09:42:05  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Shotgun Red/Yellow
09:42:14  <Xaroth> MatryxWrk: That's used quite often btw.. take a look at eve for instance
09:42:36  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: you mean like shooting a Chinese with a shotgun?... that's doable, but why?
09:42:40  <Prof_Frink> It's used quite often, but is evil
09:43:13  <Celestar> there's hardly any way to build a decent load balancer ..
09:43:19  <peter1138> i need to limit 2cc colour choices
09:43:39  <Bjarni> one of the settings, we might as well set to always on is non-uniform stations
09:43:45  <peter1138> yeah
09:43:50  <Bjarni> only freaks would turn them off
09:44:05  <hylje> nostalgists
09:44:06  <peter1138> there's bound to be some
09:44:33  <Prof_Frink> OK than, how about one master setting: TTD-Compatible
09:44:38  <Bjarni> like the guy, who complained about a bug, that was only triggered when mammoth trains are turned off
09:44:39  <Prof_Frink> turns *everything* off
09:44:49  <peter1138> Prof_Frink: even the gui changes? :)
09:44:54  <Prof_Frink> yup
09:44:59  <peter1138> heeaaahaa
09:45:08  <Bjarni> "my train is too long, so it fails"... when mammoth trains are off... go figure :p
09:45:17  <Bjarni> but it actually didn't tell him that, but that is what happened
09:45:18  <peter1138> Bjarni: it was the *method* of failure
09:45:31  <peter1138> it should just fail to replace, not leave an empty engine running around
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09:46:04  <Bjarni> it should replace, but we still need to convince DV, that it's ok to make multiheaded engines count as one
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09:48:30  * Celestar hates crappy NTP
09:49:30  * peter1138 loves it
09:49:30  <MatryxWrk> I have a suggestion: do you think it would be a good idea to allow XML based vehicle definition files to be imported? Either automatically at game-load if present, or as part of a configurable patch.  The idea being that people could create their own vehicle details ad-hoc, and the XML only needs to supply the vital statistics of the vehicle in question, and which graphics file(s) are needed.
09:49:33  <peter1138> NPF's too slow for me ;p
09:50:05  <Prof_Frink> MatryxWrk: That sound like the New Graphic spec
09:50:11  <Celestar> peter1138: yes.
09:50:15  <Celestar> any NTP finds bad paths
09:50:22  <peter1138> it mostly works
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09:50:26  <peter1138> with a few waypoints :)
09:50:35  <peter1138> and it gives you a reason to actually have waypoints, hehe
09:51:09  <Celestar> I don't feel like working around NTP's inabilities
09:51:13  <MatryxWrk> Prof_Frink: well, it's not just graphics, but rather the whole thing :) so if you wanted to add older trains quickly, it's easy to just enter the details and re-use an existing graphic... or adding more intermediary options, or other things and so forth :)
09:51:16  <peter1138> Celestar: don't then
09:51:40  <MatryxWrk> I thought that the new graphic spec was just options for replacement graphics to be used, rather than whole vehicle statistics.
09:51:47  * MatryxWrk might need to re-read that though.
09:51:55  <peter1138> depends what you mean by "new graphic spec", heh
09:52:04  <peter1138> newgrf does it all
09:52:08  <anboni> i like using yapf, and finding new ways to break it :) (too bad it now broke my savegame in turn :( )
09:54:08  <Celestar> anboni: how well does it work IRL?
09:54:43  <peter1138> IRL?
09:54:53  * peter1138 wonders if YAPF will find the best route from work to home
09:55:03  <Xaroth> lol
09:55:26  <anboni> most of the time it seems to work just as well as NPF. cpu usage hasn't been an issue for me so far with either npf or yapf, but my network only has 180 trains or so
09:55:41  <anboni> (well.. 150, if my latest savegame wont import into the latest revision)
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09:57:31  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r4975 /trunk/ (fileio.c sound.c): - Codechange: increase the number of file handles from 32 to 64 (arbitrary powers of 2!) to allow more GRF files to be loaded.
09:57:50  <Xaroth> e//
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10:01:03  <MatryxWrk> woot
10:03:15  <MatryxWrk> really looking forward to the bridges changes in the future :)
10:10:25  <peter1138> KUDr: what does all the ascii-art output of unit_test mean?
10:10:25  <Xaroth> maybe I can convince rick to put the bridge changes to mini_IN :o
10:10:43  <KUDr_wrk> the path picture
10:10:48  <MatryxWrk> Xaroth: I was under the impression they weren't finished yet :)
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10:10:52  <MatryxWrk> well, not quite
10:11:28  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: i didn't know how to draw better pictures
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10:12:01  <Xaroth> MatryxWrk: They probably aren't, but if it works it's worth a test shuffle ;)
10:12:08  <MatryxWrk> oh definitely
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10:21:54  <peter1138> gha, idiot
10:22:14  <peter1138>
10:23:13  <anboni> lol
10:23:58  <Xaroth> lol
10:24:17  <MatryxWrk> *rolleyes*
10:24:47  <anboni> why's that option even there?
10:24:52  <MatryxWrk> I vote for a "use a different savegame for your sawmills" reply
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10:27:21  <Celestar> this game kinda rocks :)
10:27:35  <MatryxWrk> s/kinda/really/ :)
10:29:02  <Celestar> haven't really played it for years :P
10:29:13  <MatryxWrk> likewise, until a few weeks ago
10:29:35  <Celestar> well I'm busy coding all the time :P
10:29:46  <Xaroth> Celestar: Less gaming more coding! :P
10:29:52  <MatryxWrk> lol
10:30:01  <Xaroth> <3
10:30:12  <peter1138> Celestar: why did that cheat addition you made *not* fuck up savegames?
10:30:45  <peter1138> ah
10:30:56  <peter1138> i see. hmm.
10:30:58  <Celestar> peter1138: because I didn't change any vehicle information ;)
10:31:22  <peter1138> no, it's because it saves it all as one field
10:31:32  <peter1138> s/field/entry/
10:31:35  <Celestar> hm?
10:31:39  <peter1138> hmm
10:32:02  <peter1138> this climate cheat is fucking retarded
10:32:27  <Celestar> yes
10:33:03  <MatryxWrk> why on earth would anyone use it?
10:33:15  <peter1138> because of the way cheats are saved, we can't just drop it, heh
10:33:27  <MatryxWrk> only reason I can think is if you've just spent days creating a scenario and want to port it to other climates quickly
10:33:32  <anboni> can't you at least remove the option from the ctrl-alt-c menu?
10:35:12  <anboni> KUDr: is there any chance at all of getting a 4950 savegame loading in 4974? Would it be possible to change the save function from 4950 to be compatible?
10:35:40  <Celestar> I kind of like this bridge stuff ;)
10:35:53  <KUDr_wrk> anboni: probably yes, let me check
10:38:22  <peter1138> anboni: might be able to
10:38:29  <Celestar> peter1138: newstats ROCK
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10:38:50  <MatryxWrk> newstations is indeed the bomb :)
10:39:13  <peter1138> Celestar: do they? (and what prompted that?)
10:39:40  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm just playing newstatsw and DBsetXL
10:39:46  <peter1138> ah
10:40:50  <Celestar> peter1138: do we have that feature that the cargo at the station is displayed on the station?
10:41:23  <peter1138> partially
10:41:33  <Celestar> i.e.?
10:41:42  <peter1138> it only uses the default, and thus adds the cargo quantity together
10:42:07  <peter1138> so yes, you see passengers waiting at a station
10:42:25  <Celestar> what about wood, coal etc?
10:42:34  <peter1138> yup
10:42:53  <Celestar> what stations do support that?
10:42:57  <MatryxWrk> mmm I noticed it was enabled the other day when playing with Xaroth
10:42:58  <peter1138> most of newstatsw
10:43:06  <MatryxWrk> we went \o/ (virtually)
10:43:15  <Celestar> hm ...
10:43:15  <peter1138> the wood loading station in jcindstaw shows wood
10:43:25  <peter1138> the steel mill station shows steel, heh
10:43:44  <Celestar> I don't have that working with coal it seems
10:43:49  <Celestar> but I'll dig into this later
10:44:02  <peter1138> the coal one doesn't vary
10:44:03  <peter1138> afaik
10:44:27  <MatryxWrk> I assume (though I haven't checked) that it just varies based on the number of cargo waiting, rather than type-checking the cargo?
10:44:44  <peter1138> MatryxWrk: correct
10:44:49  <MatryxWrk> but then, I haven't made 'passenger' look stations at my forests ;)
10:45:06  <peter1138> support is partially there, but not yet
10:45:10  <MatryxWrk> *nod*
10:45:12  <peter1138> but mostly it works
10:45:14  <Celestar> peter1138: I see
10:45:16  <Celestar> great ;)
10:45:28  <Celestar> so why did I start hauling coal? :P
10:45:28  <peter1138> i've also not written trigger support yet
10:48:11  <peter1138> (all that does is re-randomize stuff)
10:50:20  <Celestar> the code generates too many trees :S
10:50:28  <KUDr_wrk> agree
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10:50:39  <peter1138> they're pretty!
10:51:13  <Xaroth> random-generated things in the editor is usually 'too many':o
10:51:48  <MatryxWrk> mmmm.
10:51:59  <Xaroth> might need some option in the windows which generate to specify an amount as in: "Just a few" "Quite a few" "Fucktons"
10:52:14  <MatryxWrk> I'd rather have to click the button 5 or 6 times to get the same amount that we get from one click at the moment
10:54:02  <Xaroth> yar but then people go cry that they have to click hundreds of times to get a load of industries :P
10:56:07  <Celestar> BAH
10:56:23  <peter1138> HUMBUG
10:56:24  <Celestar> "Copy to viewport" / "Paste from viewport" <= we need better strings for this :S
10:57:17  <MatryxWrk> mmmm humbug mints :9
10:57:47  <Xaroth> "Go to location", "View current location", Celestar ?
11:00:02  <Xaroth> that sounds better to me at least, then again, I'm dutch.. so it might just be the opposite.
11:00:51  <MatryxWrk> what does it do? set the main view to the viewport, and vice-verca?
11:01:22  <Xaroth> yes
11:01:38  <Xaroth> allowing you to 'spy' on things (like your favourite opponent)
11:01:55  <Xaroth> or quickly drag a line from point A to B by dragging from the viewport to the main port.
11:02:29  <MatryxWrk> Why not just simply Set Viewport Here, and Jump to Viewport
11:02:45  <Xaroth> or that.
11:02:49  <MatryxWrk> =)
11:02:57  <Xaroth> but you can't jump to a viewport ;)
11:03:37  <Xaroth> s/Viewport/Viewport location
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11:11:30  <Celestar> he 50 trains already ...
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11:11:35  <Celestar> Xaroth: that's be much better ..
11:12:27  <Xaroth> Celestar: :)
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11:14:46  <ledow> Remember and Recall location?
11:14:54  <ledow> or Store and Recall?
11:17:11  <KUDr_wrk> anboni: ping
11:17:20  <anboni> KUDr: pong :)
11:17:26  <KUDr_wrk> go PM
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11:35:17  <anboni> hmm.. is it normal for factories, steel mills and sawmills to all close down if they aren't serviced? i currently have 1 factory and one steel mill, both of which i built myself (and i believe both disappeared again shortly after i built them, while i was still working on the tracks).. and there's no sawmill at all
11:39:46  <Celestar>
11:39:47  <Celestar> nice :)
11:40:23  <anboni> sweet!
11:41:08  <anboni> does anyone else find themselves right-click dragging in ttd images loaded in a browser?:)
11:41:12  <Celestar> WHERE is tron
11:41:16  <Celestar> anboni: yeah :)
11:41:21  <Celestar> anboni: want the savegame? :P
11:41:33  <anboni> hehe
11:41:40  <anboni> i want the stuff to make those bridges :)
11:41:40  <Celestar> but it doesn't load in trunk, only branch/bridge/
11:41:45  <anboni> doh
11:41:53  <Celestar> anboni: svn co svn://
11:42:08  <anboni> i dont supposed it'll merge easily with the yapf branch?:)
11:42:24  <Celestar> it should merge with YAPF easily because it will be done soon
11:42:33  <anboni> cool :)
11:42:46  <Celestar> I'm 15 years into the game without any problems
11:42:57  <Celestar> and I've run three 100-year 7-AI games without any problems
11:43:14  <anboni> and the AI's actually use those bridges?
11:43:21  <Celestar> anboni: unfortunately
11:43:23  <Celestar> ..
11:43:25  <anboni> hehehe
11:43:55  <ledow> So not only does the AI use bridges to take itself miles out of it's way on a simple route, it can now form loops, spirals and crossovers as well! :-)
11:43:56  <anboni> i can imagine the nightmare networks the AI's would build with that :)
11:44:17  <Celestar> anboni:
11:44:55  <Celestar> (last image is not yet in svn) :)
11:45:13  <ledow> lol@last image's bridges on the left
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11:45:39  <Celestar> but the crossing bridges are not yet supported
11:45:45  <Celestar> ledow: hr hr, very efficient
11:45:47  <anboni> ugh.. 0.png took me a bit to notice what's wrong with it... that's kinda sad :)
11:46:15  <ledow> looks like it could be very useful though, how it goes over that overtaking point with ease.
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11:46:35  <ledow> Could get some interesting junctions with these I should think
11:46:50  <ledow> Signals under bridges alone is worth the effort.
11:47:13  <anboni> does this mean that diagonal tunnels will be possible in the near future as well? or is that a compeltely different beast?
11:47:25  <Celestar> that is something completely different
11:47:40  <Celestar> I want that bridge stuff and YAPF in the nightlies soon
11:47:51  <Celestar> but now ... food
11:48:09  <anboni> that would be awesome.. from what i'm seeing so far, yapf works pretty good
11:48:13  <Celestar> Darkvater: try your luck and e-mail Tron ... (merge)
11:48:27  <Celestar> well it'll take some time to marry those two branches, but ok
11:48:42  <anboni> all good work takes time :)
11:48:49  <anboni> but it'll be worth it, for sure:)
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11:55:51  <roboman> hello
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11:56:53  <roboman> in brianettas nightly server, the coastar centuary's are producing electric sparcks on elrails even though they are fuel cell powered
12:03:08  <peter1138> iirc they produce sparks on non-elrails too
12:03:11  <peter1138> but i could be wrong
12:03:42  <roboman> ok, just thought id let you know
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12:08:04  <peter1138> Born_Acorn: NEW GRAPHICS
12:09:00  <Born_Acorn> Where?
12:14:28  <peter1138> IN YOUR HEAD
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12:17:07  * Celestar goes resuming his game
12:19:22  <Born_Acorn> I have no dead.
12:19:24  <Born_Acorn> head.
12:19:27  <Born_Acorn> I lost it in the war.
12:19:59  <peter1138> oic
12:21:27  <roboman> gnight
12:23:10  <Born_Acorn> The enemy had set up tea cosy booby traps. I went to get one of the tea cosies, knowing my teapot would be cosier at night, and then the mine went off.
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12:44:13  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-211-198.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:44:51  <Sacro> afternoon all
12:45:01  <Xaroth> lo
12:45:31  <anboni> hi
12:45:34  <Sacro> have i missed much?
12:45:39  <ThePizzaKing> hey Sacro
12:46:02  <Sacro> hey ThePizzaKing, long time no see
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12:46:19  <ThePizzaKing> yeah, I've stopped talking a lot
12:46:44  <Sacro> ah right
12:46:50  <Sacro> Happy towel day anyway people
12:47:18  <ThePizzaKing> Am I meant to be wearing a towel all day or something?
12:47:26  <anboni> ah yes, happy towel day
12:48:14  <Sacro> ThePizzaKing: yes
12:48:30  <ThePizzaKing> eh, too bad today's like already over
12:49:18  <ThePizzaKing> I might have actually participated if I knew before hand
12:50:13  <Sacro> its only 13:50 here
12:51:10  <ThePizzaKing> 22:51
12:51:57  <ThePizzaKing> heh, there's even a wikipedia entry for Towel day
12:52:05  <Sacro> yeah :) course
12:52:07  <anboni>
12:52:15  <anboni> there's a whole website :)
12:52:25  <Sacro> i got it in my sig too
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12:57:38  <ThePizzaKing> eh, time for bed
12:57:41  <ThePizzaKing> night all
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13:13:16  <Sacro> well its all quiet in here
13:13:46  <anboni> no time for chat, too busy playing :)
13:15:11  <Sacro> playing eh?
13:15:20  <Celestar> me too
13:15:23  <Celestar> but g2g now
13:15:25  <Celestar> cu later
13:15:29  <anboni> cya
13:16:04  <Sacro> see you later Celestar
13:20:05  <Belugas> Work pumps up all my chatting energy, not to mention gaming
13:21:00  <Sacro> hey Belugas
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13:25:41  <Sacro> hmmm
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13:38:26  <Celestar> is it me or does the world kind of suck?
13:38:47  <anboni> i dont think it's just you
13:39:26  <Celestar> good to know
13:39:52  <Scia> it's called gravitation I think...
13:40:32  <anboni> i believe it's Sir Isaac Newton we have to blame for that
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13:45:04  <Belugas> Hello Sacro :)
13:45:32  <Belugas> As I just told, not much energy (rather time) for chatting
13:46:51  <Sacro> Belugas: thats ok, im going out now anyway, got to sign on at job centre, and go see my phsyciatrist
13:47:31  <Sacro> be back later all
13:47:33  <Belugas> have a nice promenade, my friend
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13:47:35  <Belugas> byte
13:51:57  <Celestar> hm ..
13:52:05  <Celestar> something is wrong with the "up/down" computation ...
13:53:19  <anboni> how so?
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14:01:52  <Celestar> ...
14:01:55  <Celestar> one little mistake
14:02:01  <Celestar> and it takes months for the network to clear
14:06:38  <XeryusTC> KUDr?
14:10:46  <Celestar> man
14:10:51  <Celestar> 1024x1024 is FRIGGEN large
14:12:31  <XeryusTC> the latest yapf is broken :(
14:13:00  <glx> what are the symptoms?
14:13:10  <XeryusTC> trains going the wrong directions
14:13:23  <XeryusTC> like dead end tracks that i just build
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14:13:41  <glx> I though he fixed that last night
14:14:21  * XeryusTC updates again
14:16:21  <XeryusTC> that seemed to fix it :)
14:16:25  <Noldo> :)
14:19:54  <Xaroth> Celestar: No it's not.
14:22:51  <Celestar> for single player? I think so
14:23:04  <Xaroth> naw man, try the editor, random towns random industries
14:23:16  <Xaroth> there'll be 500 industries and 50 towns you can choose from :P
14:24:26  <Celestar> :P
14:24:40  <Xaroth> and the other 1500 industries and towns generated are decorational
14:24:55  <Xaroth> i mean.. the eye wants candy as well ;)
14:30:04  <Celestar> grow them ;)
14:30:19  <Xaroth> heh
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14:35:42  <Celestar> damnit
14:35:52  <Celestar> I need to restart 80 % of this network
14:37:39  <Xaroth> restart?
14:37:52  <Xaroth> networks = bad xD
14:37:53  <XeryusTC> KUDr: ping
14:37:55  <CIA-3> celestar * r4976 /branch/bridge/tunnelbridge_cmd.c: [bridge] -Fix: Clear the up/down flags for vehicles when entering a bridge middle
14:37:57  <Celestar> lol
14:38:07  <Celestar> I need someone to join my game ...
14:38:15  <Xaroth> I can join it
14:38:21  <Xaroth> active play might be something differenttho
14:38:23  <XeryusTC> i need to give KUDr a savegame
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14:39:03  <Xaroth> though i might need to install the latest ottd here, since i only got mini_IN here atm :P
14:39:03  <Celestar> Xaroth: but I have newgrfs loaded ...
14:39:17  <Celestar> plus you need svn checkouts ;)
14:39:21  <Xaroth> >_<
14:39:36  <Celestar> Thu May 25 16:43:25 CEST 2006
14:39:40  <Celestar> holy f*ck
14:39:47  <Celestar> ok cancel game request
14:39:47  <Celestar> g2g
14:39:53  <Xaroth> heh
14:39:54  <Xaroth> same time as here
14:39:55  <Xaroth> later
14:40:30  <Celestar> c ya
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14:51:09  <RichK67> hi all
14:51:47  <XeryusTC> hi RichK67
14:52:20  <RichK67> Celestar ping
14:53:00  <glx> [16:40:42] <Celestar> c ya
14:53:00  <glx> [16:50:43] RichK67 [] has joined #openttd
14:53:24  <RichK67> dang
14:53:46  <RichK67> Darkvater ping then ;)
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15:02:10  <Xaroth> RichK67: Celestar went out 10 mins before you came
15:02:57  <RichK67> yeah, glx said
15:04:12  * Xaroth should stop using irssi in mini-mode >_<
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15:10:52  <Xaroth> RichK67: If you need help testing mini_IN etc, lemme know :)
15:10:57  * Xaroth heads home to [Shaman]
15:11:18  <hylje> what is this mini-mode
15:11:46  <Xaroth> hylje:
15:11:48  * Xaroth off
15:12:19  <RichK67> i would guess its an IRC window that is only 1-2 lines high... minimal space, but you may miss stuff
15:13:57  <hylje> k
15:16:13  <peter1138>!
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15:30:26  <[Shaman]> [RichK67]: i would guess its an IRC window that is only 1-2 lines high... minimal space, but you may miss stuff << Irssi set to tiny mode == ssh terminal with only 7 lines of text
15:30:34  <MatryxWrk> that was fast shams
15:30:37  <[Shaman]> leaving only the last 4 lines of said text visible
15:30:47  <[Shaman]> MatryxWrk: I spent 10 minutes waiting on my dad :P
15:30:55  <[Shaman]> it takes 2 minutes by car to get home xD
15:30:59  <MatryxWrk> do you work next door to your house then? :P
15:30:59  <MatryxWrk> oh
15:31:00  <MatryxWrk> :)
15:31:15  <[Shaman]> eh
15:31:17  <[Shaman]> near to at least
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15:36:25  <hylje> looks rather small with 7 lines..
15:36:45  <hylje> luckily i got more than this w/ my mobile phone
15:37:13  <[Shaman]> hylje: it's small so it doesn't get noticed by people ;)
15:37:32  <[Shaman]> saves the constant alt-tab need when people walk in etc
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15:44:40  <hylje> theres better solutions
15:44:41  <[Shaman]> RichK67: 4917 was the 'last' release of mini_IN right?
15:44:47  <hylje> the Eclipse integration? ;>
15:44:58  <[Shaman]> eh?
15:45:09  <MatryxWrk> last as in most recent of course :)
15:46:46  <hylje> well, irssi themed to look like java code
15:47:24  <[Shaman]> ah
15:47:43  <[Shaman]> I tend to leave my irssi at one piece.. I tend to fuck it over if i start fiddling with it
15:47:46  <[Shaman]> which isn't usefull :P
15:48:09  <MatryxWrk> Shaman: Master* Tinkerer
15:49:35  <[Shaman]> heh
15:50:12  <[Shaman]> [Shaman]: [_] Brainiac | [_] Smart person , tick whichever applies
15:50:14  * [Shaman] food
15:50:35  <MatryxWrk> [X]Brainiac | [_] Smart
15:51:15  <Prof_Frink> [_] Brainiac | [_] Smart person | [X] Crazy
15:51:18  <hylje> [ ] Interesting [ ] Not interesting [x] Not interesting but sign me up anyway.
15:55:06  <RichK67> [Shaman]yes, 4917, but i have a new one to upload soon
15:59:14  <MatryxWrk> \o/
15:59:26  <MatryxWrk> any chance you can cram the bridges trunk thing into it? ;)
16:00:14  <MatryxWrk> not being certain what state the code is in though, I'm not sure it'd follow your criteria for inclusion.
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16:07:12  <anboni> KUDr: ping?
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16:12:02  <Sacro> afternoon all
16:12:06  <anboni> hi
16:14:21  <Belugas> wb Sacro (thanks to peter1138 for educating me^^)
16:14:35  <Sacro> Belugas: thanks, educating you about what?
16:15:39  <glx> about what means wb :)
16:16:17  <anboni> is there a way to make an image from the world map?
16:16:42  <[Shaman]> [RichK67]: [Shaman]yes, 4917, but i have a new one to upload soon << Sweetness \e/
16:18:13  <Belugas> hehehe.. thanks glx :)  I have a little knowledge of IRC abbreviations. So, i'm getting knowledge where and when I can
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16:25:48  <Sacro> i fancy some programming
16:26:43  <[Shaman]> Then help RichK67 with mini_IN ;)
16:27:00  <ProfFrink> No! Help peter1138! with NewFeature!
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16:27:17  <anboni> build something to export a savegame to a full worldmap (similar to the ingame map window) :)
16:27:19  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit ["Reconnecting"]
16:27:19  *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
16:27:32  <Prof_Frink> ...reconnecting?
16:27:41  <Prof_Frink> What up wit' that?
16:27:43  <MatryxWrk> build a conversion tool for savegames/scenarios between all the builds
16:27:44  <MatryxWrk> :)
16:29:51  <RichK67> [shaman] mini IN is fine - its all the darn patches that are the problems ;)  ... oh, and the users ;)
16:30:11  <MatryxWrk> pesky users :)
16:30:32  <RichK67> multiplayer works great without any users ;)
16:30:40  <MatryxWrk> \o/
16:30:46  <[Shaman]> RichK67: heh
16:31:05  <[Shaman]> Well if you need help with things, lemme know :)
16:31:12  <MatryxWrk> oddly - it only seems to be Shaman who has problems (out of the 3 of us that play together)
16:31:20  <[Shaman]> I'm known for breaking unbreakable things :P
16:31:31  <[Shaman]> MatryxWrk: That's what you get when you compile the server yourself :P
16:31:32  <MatryxWrk> if you make it idiot proof......
16:31:34  <RichK67> generally im ok - ive got it pretty stable at the moment, with some minor known bugs
16:32:01  <RichK67> priority is preparing TGP and New Airports for 0.5.0 inclusion... if i can pass :)
16:32:13  <[Shaman]> that be sweet
16:32:16  * MatryxWrk points at the bridge trunk again
16:33:10  <MatryxWrk> yarr - time to leave the office and bugger off home :)
16:33:15  <MatryxWrk> cya in a bit shams
16:33:18  <[Shaman]> about bloody time :P
16:33:19  <[Shaman]> later greg
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16:38:24  <Sacro> the language in here is getting worse
16:41:05  <peter1138> argh
16:41:10  <peter1138> vim 7.0 has been installed
16:41:16  <peter1138> it's not set up the same way :(
16:41:20  <peter1138> it's in lame-mode
16:41:37  <peter1138> hmm
16:41:38  <Sacro> hehe
16:41:46  * Sacro cant use vim
16:42:05  <peter1138> hmmmmmm
16:42:16  <RichK67> try Cif instead ;)
16:42:24  <XeryusTC> vim is weird
16:42:29  <peter1138> ok, if i start it as vi it's in lame-mode
16:42:38  <peter1138> it's good if i start it as vim
16:42:59  <[Shaman]> hm, there's even a cheat menu
16:43:02  <[Shaman]> now to find how to summon it
16:43:06  <peter1138> where good means things like multiple undo levels, backspace actually deletes...
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16:44:48  <Sacro> [Shaman]: in OpenTTD or vim?
16:47:11  <[Shaman]> I.. don't use vim
16:48:48  <Sacro> [Shaman]: CTRL+ALT+C :)
16:49:58  * [Shaman] goes try
16:50:21  <[Shaman]> no effect O_O
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16:50:39  <XeryusTC> ctrl+alt+win key+c?
16:50:50  <[Shaman]> ah yeh
16:54:03  <anboni> cool, yapf is doing a better job at finding paths than npf :)
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17:16:59  * SimonRC notices a broken tunnel image in (near the top)
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17:47:21  <anboni> sigh.. i need PBS :/
17:52:04  <KUDr> [16:39:55] <XeryusTC> KUDr: ping <- pong
17:52:04  <KUDr> [18:09:14] <anboni> KUDr: ping?  <- pong
17:52:20  <XeryusTC> KUDr: i encountered a problem with yapf
17:52:32  <XeryusTC> i'll give you a savegame, it will occure after a few minutes
17:52:40  <KUDr> XeryusTC: what bug report number
17:52:42  <KUDr> ?
17:52:54  <XeryusTC> KUDr: i dont use flyspray...
17:52:59  <KUDr> aha
17:53:07  <KUDr> do you have better system?
17:53:15  <KUDr> forum?
17:53:17  <XeryusTC> no
17:53:22  <KUDr> so DCC
17:53:29  <XeryusTC> yes
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17:53:50  <anboni> KUDr: was wondering if you wanted to know about unwanted behaviour of yapf when the network's faulty.. then i started to look for more details, and noticed i didn't have yapf enabled.. so it really was NPF messing up, while yapf was working fine :)
17:54:10  <XeryusTC> KUDr: accept please :)
17:54:21  <anboni> XeryusTC: did you try with build 4974 or higher? your report sounds like the exact problem i reported last night, which KUDr fixed almost instantly
17:54:37  <XeryusTC> i use the latest version afaik
17:54:42  <XeryusTC> i updated a few hours ago
17:54:44  <KUDr> XeryusTC: there is nothing to accept
17:55:29  <XeryusTC> KUDr:
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17:56:09  <KUDr> saving...
17:57:55  <KUDr> XeryusTC: what should i do with that savegame
17:58:05  <XeryusTC> KUDr: just wait
17:58:13  <XeryusTC> it should happen after a few minutes
18:00:27  <KUDr> i think it happened already
18:00:37  <KUDr> never saw such thing
18:00:45  <KUDr> any idea?
18:00:55  <XeryusTC> no
18:01:08  <KUDr> is it related only to yapf?
18:01:28  <XeryusTC> didnt test that, but it looked like it did
18:01:58  <KUDr> now i switched off yapf and it does the same
18:02:18  <KUDr> something is very broken
18:05:00  <anboni> wow.. that's one tiny map, now that i've grown used to 1024x1024 maps :)
18:10:06  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-195-145.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12"]
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18:30:46  <Matryx> I really need to stop right-click-dragging on screenshots of ttd
18:31:49  <anboni> i keep doing that :/
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18:32:06  <Patrick`> sup (izzle)
18:32:14  <Matryx> someone needs to tell them to expand the PNG format to support it :)
18:32:21  <anboni> yeah, that would be a grand idea
18:32:40  <Patrick`> lossy?
18:32:43  <Patrick`> Pff
18:33:05  <Patrick`> just use UDP, plenty of lossyness there
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18:33:32  <anboni> very interesting comments there....
18:33:44  <Sacro> lol
18:34:35  <Sacro> it keeps putting my tank engines in reverse :'( crys
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18:38:45  <anboni> whee! just broke 10 billion cash..
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18:40:21  <anboni> sigh.. i need to redesign this station.. exit is seriously jammed :(
18:40:32  <Sacro> brianettas nightly is quiet :(
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18:46:45  <KUDr> XeryusTC: ping
18:48:32  <KUDr> XeryusTC: the savegame is totally invalid - did you use any newgrf? All your trains lost engines (have only wagons)
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18:59:37  <XeryusTC> KUDr: yes, i use UKRS
18:59:54  <KUDr> so then i can't help you
19:00:03  <KUDr> it has nothing to do with yapf
19:00:16  <KUDr> i see there no engines
19:00:35  <KUDr> and therefore it is ok what it does
19:00:40  <KUDr> but how it happened?
19:01:02  <XeryusTC> uhm, the error always happens at the same moment
19:01:15  <KUDr> i have from beginning
19:01:28  <KUDr> maybe you are talking about another problem
19:01:33  <XeryusTC> ow wait, you're talking about the missing engines, im getting an assert
19:01:45  <KUDr> i have no assert
19:01:56  <KUDr> as trains don't move
19:02:29  <KUDr> and yapf can't find any way
19:02:38  <KUDr> there is no compatible rail
19:02:41  <XeryusTC> let me try to recreate again
19:02:43  <KUDr> as there is no engine
19:02:56  <KUDr> try it without newgrf
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19:05:09  <XeryusTC> ill let it run and type the assert here
19:05:48  <KUDr> dunno if it can help without debugger
19:05:58  <KUDr> and reproducing it inside
19:06:05  <KUDr> lets try
19:06:53  <KUDr> i wonder why it didn't tell me that i have missing some newgrf
19:08:55  <KUDr> look around tile 129x285
19:09:10  <KUDr> there will be disaster
19:09:20  <KUDr> it can be related somehow
19:13:44  <XeryusTC> i got the assert, took me a while because i loaded the wrong save, it was a resave and the error didnt occure somehow
19:14:32  <XeryusTC> the assert says this: yapf/yapf_destrail.hpp:123 expression: nm.m_estimate >= n.m_parent->m_estimate
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19:16:26  <KUDr> in order to find it i must reproduce it
19:16:48  <KUDr> so i'll need to learn how to get and run ukrs
19:17:55  <XeryusTC>
19:17:59  <XeryusTC> you can download ukrs there
19:18:30  <KUDr> ok
19:30:01  <anboni> i seem to remember there being a way to reset a station's service ratings.. was that ttdpatch only, or does openttd have something similar?
19:30:20  <Matryx> fairly certain a large advertising campaign would do it
19:30:34  <XeryusTC> anboni: there is a very old patch for that out there somewhere
19:31:59  <anboni> i'm afraid that local advertising campaign doesn't do the trick, so looks like i'm screwed
19:32:07  *** Osai^2 is now known as Osai
19:32:36  <anboni> i had a few goods trains accidentally stop at my factory dropoff station.. so now there's 3200 crates of goods waiting there, with no new trains servicing it (so rating already is down to 43%)
19:35:23  <hylje> :>
19:35:26  <hylje> :<
19:36:26  <KUDr> XeryusTC:what exactly i must download there?
19:36:48  <XeryusTC> UKRS for Windows TTDP v2.31 13th of February 2006
19:37:06  <glx> XeryusTC: give your openttd.cfg too, it will be easier
19:37:15  <KUDr> thanks
19:37:23  <KUDr> yes
19:37:32  <glx> because grf order is important
19:38:01  <KUDr> into /data/ ?
19:38:13  <Scia> only pb_ukrs was needed to destroy the game for me :p
19:38:31  <XeryusTC> KUDr: yes
19:41:46  <KUDr> XeryusTC: how to activate it?
19:42:26  <XeryusTC> KUDr: put [newgrf] \n pb_ukrs.grf in your openttd.cfg
19:42:32  <XeryusTC> and then load my game
19:42:42  <KUDr> ok
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19:43:50  <KUDr> wow! i have engines there
19:44:17  <XeryusTC> :)
19:44:19  <XeryusTC> good
19:44:26  <KUDr> never had
19:44:29  <XeryusTC> you will get an assert on 9 december IIRC
19:44:35  <KUDr> it is new toy for me
19:45:01  * XeryusTC thinks that KUDr should play more :)
19:45:12  <Prof_Frink> No! He should dev more!
19:45:20  <KUDr> i play enough
19:45:31  <KUDr> but i am old conservative father
19:46:08  <KUDr> Prof_Frink: i am not a dev. I am stupid mouse clicking user only
19:48:58  <KUDr> assert 8th aug 2031
19:53:07  <anboni> hmm.. this is somewhat annoying.. every once in a while, all my resources drop production by quite a bit.. messes up a lot of things if the train coverage was calculated for the original high production
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20:07:09  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@] has joined #openttd
20:08:19  <Sacro> evening all
20:11:42  <Belugas> wb Sacro.  On off you are today :)
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20:18:28  <KUDr> XeryusTC: what OS do you use?
20:18:58  <XeryusTC> w2k
20:19:18  <Sacro> Belugas: yeah, have things to do
20:19:39  <KUDr> i send you new src - one file
20:20:22  <XeryusTC> uhm, im going to watch tv
20:20:36  <KUDr> accept file
20:20:53  <XeryusTC> ok
20:20:58  <KUDr> run it
20:21:04  <KUDr> and go watch tv
20:21:14  <KUDr> then report assert if any
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20:26:05  <Belugas> Sacro : Sorry to hear that ;)
20:26:11  <anboni> KUDr: is load balancing something that yapf should handle automatically? or should the network encourage that through proper signalling?
20:26:19  <Sacro> Belugas: got really bad heat rash
20:26:34  <Belugas> I have WAY TOO MANY things to do, on my side
20:26:41  <Belugas> come here, there is no heat!
20:26:58  <Belugas> Well.. kinda
20:27:13  <Belugas> it is 18 or 20 celcius
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20:28:31  <KUDr> anboni: hmm, there is very simple algo that can help sometimes
20:28:54  <KUDr> anboni: it add penalty for first 10 signals if any is red
20:29:07  <KUDr> it is not any intelligence
20:30:27  <anboni> KUDr: i'm having a bit of a feeling that mechanism isn't working too well then... looks like my trains always favor one specific mainline track, even if there's a queue just to get onto that track
20:33:35  <KUDr> anboni: need savegame, can look and possibly explain
20:33:43  <anboni> KUDr: i just took a screenshot of a situation where one mainline track was pretty much stuck, but all trains were queueing up for that specific track, even though the other track was free
20:34:24  <KUDr> if the other was significantly longer then it is possible
20:34:51  <KUDr> you mus make them logically equivalent
20:35:03  <anboni> i'll put up a savegame and that screenshot, hang on
20:35:11  <KUDr> ok
20:35:30  <anboni> perfect! i have an autosave seconds before it happens
20:35:40  <KUDr> well
20:35:43  <KUDr> dcc
20:37:04  <anboni> the game is looking at the place it happens at, you'll see a goods train coming from the bottom right corner of the screen, followed by a livestock/grain train
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20:37:35  <KUDr> hmm game load failed
20:37:36  <anboni> the livestock train could've taken the outer mainline track, which is completely free, but instead it takes the inner
20:37:40  <anboni> uhm
20:37:52  <anboni> are you sure it was finished already when you tried loading it?
20:37:54  <anboni> :)
20:38:07  <KUDr> can try again
20:38:32  <KUDr> aha
20:38:40  <KUDr> you are right
20:38:43  <anboni> :)
20:39:07  <anboni> glad too, i was kinda worried for a moment that i did that saveload.c hack on the wrong version earlier:)
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20:39:22  <KUDr> heh
20:39:24  <KUDr> good
20:39:29  <KUDr> it loads now
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20:40:10  <anboni> both goods train and livestock train are heading for the same factory a bit to the southwest
20:40:48  <anboni> outer mainline track probably is a few tiles longer, but not too much
20:41:38  <anboni> although i think for goods, the outer track might actually be shorter
20:41:51  <KUDr> wait please, phone - boss
20:41:55  <anboni> ok, np
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20:57:26  <Sacro> quiet in here again
20:58:27  <CIA-3> miham * r4977 /trunk/lang/ (estonian.txt polish.txt unfinished/ukrainian.txt):
20:58:27  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-25 22:58:12
20:58:27  <CIA-3> estonian - 1 fixed, 341 changed by vermon (342)
20:58:27  <CIA-3> polish - 1 fixed by meush (1)
20:58:27  <CIA-3> ukrainian - 1 fixed by znikoz (1)
20:59:08  <anboni> sacro: looks like CIA-3 heard you :)
20:59:22  <Sacro> yeah
21:00:38  <peter1138> morning sacro
21:00:52  * peter1138 plays on brianetta's nightly
21:02:19  <Sacro> morning peter1138
21:02:42  *** Trippledence [] has joined #openttd
21:06:08  <KUDr> anboni: bak (sorry, they wake up afternoon and are working whole night)
21:06:20  <anboni> KUDr: noworries
21:07:56  <KUDr> ok, train 128 already passed choice
21:08:00  <KUDr> so 199
21:08:23  <KUDr> are that right trains?
21:08:32  <anboni> yup
21:08:47  <KUDr> so i am looking for route
21:10:21  <anboni> both leave the mainline again at the next split, then split to their respective destinations (frundston woods for 199, lower frundston for 128)
21:10:56  <KUDr> looking at frundston woods (199)
21:11:01  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:11:15  <KUDr> tile 441x294
21:11:17  <Belugas_Gone> Whouhou!  Home at last :)
21:11:23  <KUDr> there is missing track?
21:11:25  <Belugas_Gone> Bye guys, have fun
21:11:31  <KUDr> bye
21:11:43  <peter1138> Belugas_Gone: OI
21:11:52  <peter1138> newindustries!
21:11:55  <peter1138> wait
21:11:59  <Belugas_Gone> ?
21:12:02  <peter1138> i sound like born_acorn
21:12:35  <Belugas_Gone> peter1138 : NewsSounds
21:12:38  <Sacro> peter1138: you do
21:12:40  <anboni> KUDr: no, that track isn't missing.. that was me switching those two tracks around to see if that would make a different... 448x294 is the split they'll take
21:12:40  <Belugas_Gone> shit...
21:12:47  <Belugas_Gone> peter1138 : newsounds
21:12:50  <Belugas_Gone> haaa!
21:13:13  <Belugas_Gone> peter1138 : FeatureChangeInfo in Delphi!
21:13:16  <Belugas_Gone> gione
21:13:38  <anboni> KUDr: all of 448x294, 444x295 and 441x294 would eventually lead to the same destinations
21:14:17  <KUDr> if you add track into 441x294 then it works
21:14:27  <KUDr> 199 chooses the other way
21:15:00  <anboni> yeah, but from that moment on, it seems all trains start taking that way
21:15:40  <anboni> i'm thinking the real problem might not be where 128 is when you load that game.. also not at that missing piece of track...
21:15:48  <KUDr> lets wait how it will develop
21:16:11  <anboni> if you look around 483x287, you'll see where the track splits into woods and lower destinations
21:16:41  <anboni> it seems most trains favor the track going through 487x292
21:17:39  <KUDr> since it is much shorter
21:18:01  <KUDr> ok, i can try to play with the balancing constants
21:18:11  <anboni> cool :)
21:18:12  <KUDr> it will take me few minutes
21:18:16  <KUDr> wait
21:19:28  * XeryusTC is back
21:21:44  *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@] has joined #openttd
21:21:59  <RichK67> hi all
21:22:07  <RichK67> Celestar ping
21:22:30  <anboni> hi
21:23:01  <RichK67> any sign of Celestar this evening?
21:23:13  <anboni> nope, haven't seen him since somewhere this afternoon
21:23:16  <XeryusTC> KUDr: the problem seems to be fixed :)
21:23:33  <KUDr> XeryusTC: ok, thanks for report
21:23:45  <XeryusTC> np, that's why i'm testing :)
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21:29:08  <KUDr> anb
21:29:18  <KUDr> anboni: new values
21:29:18  <KUDr> rail_look_ahead_signal_p0 = 3000
21:29:19  <KUDr> rail_look_ahead_signal_p1 = -400
21:29:19  <KUDr> rail_look_ahead_signal_p2 = 15
21:29:32  <KUDr> but it is overriden by savegame
21:29:35  <anboni> those go in openttd.cfg?
21:29:38  <anboni> oh
21:29:46  <KUDr> i must find out how to rewrite it
21:29:51  <KUDr> yes
21:29:56  <KUDr> .cfg
21:30:05  <KUDr> but they are used for new games
21:30:19  <KUDr> hopefully there is some console command for it
21:30:43  <anboni> that'd be cool.. would probably be a lot easier than pulling it through a debugger :)
21:31:08  <KUDr> yes, with debugger it works
21:31:18  <KUDr> i tried it so
21:31:28  <KUDr> but i dunno console commands
21:31:44  <anboni> well.. i have gdb available.. but no real experience with it :/
21:32:00  <KUDr> i can send you savegame
21:32:23  *** Zr40_ is now known as Zr40
21:35:05  <KUDr> anboni: ok, try it now
21:36:05  <anboni> running it
21:38:20  <anboni> looks like the trains still favor that one track
21:39:11  <KUDr> hmm in my case not
21:39:25  <anboni> KUDr: i did manage to attach gdb to the running openttd, so i might be able to check/change some stuff at runtime
21:39:38  <RichK67> does anyone know what happened to the win32 nightly??
21:39:40  <KUDr> ok, try to check it
21:39:45  <KUDr> if it is there
21:40:12  <anboni> is it normal for openttd to freeze when i attach the debugger?
21:40:40  <anboni> ah, i can make it continue easily enough :)
21:40:50  <KUDr> :)
21:41:40  <KUDr> you can change it by console too: patch yapf.rail_look_ahead_signal_p0 <value>
21:41:51  <anboni> ugh... looks like on linux at least, it's somewhat multithreaded (or some support libraries used are).. it just barfed with a segfault :)
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21:42:06  <KUDr> hmm
21:42:18  <KUDr> so try console
21:42:33  <KUDr> patch yapf.rail_look_ahead_signal_p0
21:42:42  <KUDr> should give you 3000
21:43:07  <anboni> it does
21:43:25  <KUDr> then train 199 must go right
21:44:06  <anboni> yeah, it did (your patched savegame was right after it made the choice)
21:44:06  <KUDr> and then 134 too
21:44:31  <glx> RichK67: <-- nightly is here but the web site don't say it :)
21:44:40  <KUDr> so then it is ok or not?
21:45:13  <KUDr> look for train 134
21:45:20  <anboni> KUDr: yeah, that part is looking ok
21:45:35  <KUDr> 130 too
21:45:43  <KUDr> so what is wrong?
21:45:49  <RichK67> glx: ty
21:45:53  <anboni> but trains are stil piling up for the first bunch of tracks toward the factory dropoff station
21:46:13  <KUDr> what train for example?
21:46:23  <anboni> 197
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21:46:52  <anboni> 196, 263, 261, 181
21:47:23  <Celestar> hi
21:47:27  <anboni> but maybe those contants just need a little more tweaking
21:48:04  <anboni> if you could explain to me which constants to modify and what they do, i might be able to fiddle around some and tell you the results :)
21:48:06  <KUDr> it must be something else
21:48:28  <KUDr> ok, go pm, it is longer
21:48:50  <Celestar> KUDr: probs?
21:49:04  <KUDr> probs?
21:49:15  <KUDr> aha
21:49:20  <Celestar> "problems"
21:49:20  <anboni> Celestar: i just built a network that isn't working, and i'm blaming yapf for it :) :)
21:49:25  <anboni> hmm
21:49:32  <Celestar> lol anboni
21:49:41  <KUDr> yes, some load balancing issues
21:49:45  <anboni> KUDr: i just got an assert.. looks similar to the one XeryusTC got earlier
21:50:08  <KUDr> anboni: ok, wait i'll commit the fix
21:50:19  <anboni> pasted the assert into pm, so you can verify it is indeed the same
21:50:29  <KUDr> yes it is the same
21:50:56  <Celestar> KUDr: I've been playing with merges a bit more
21:51:04  <Celestar> it is indeed no problem at all to merge yapf
21:51:11  <Celestar> (from a source point of view)
21:51:31  <Celestar> me goes to bed
21:51:31  <KUDr> good
21:51:36  <anboni> night celestar
21:51:36  <KUDr> ok, gn
21:51:40  <Celestar> good night
21:51:42  <Celestar> dobru noc
21:51:49  * Sacro has registered #throughthetube if anyones interested in the idea
21:51:57  <RichK67> celestar
21:52:00  <Celestar> yes RichK67 ?
21:52:13  <anboni> ooh, that looked like czech :)
21:52:21  <Celestar> anboni: kind of
21:52:22  <RichK67> please can i have a branch for mini in set up this w/e?
21:52:39  <Celestar> yes RichK67 unless Darkvater or peter1138 object
21:52:40  <Celestar> ;)
21:52:53  <Celestar> I think they wont
21:52:56  <RichK67> great - it needs some controlling ;)
21:53:11  <Celestar> gotta talk to TL|Away about it anyway, he manages the server..
21:53:13  <Celestar> nite
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21:53:17  <RichK67> gn
21:53:20  <RichK67> ty
21:53:34  <CIA-3> KUDr * r4978 /branch/yapf/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp: [YAPF] Fix: assert "n.m_estimate >= n.m_parent->m_estimate" when previous segment ends at the tunnel entry due to r4974 changes (thanks XeryusTC)
21:53:45  <XeryusTC> :)
21:53:56  <KUDr> complicated explanaton
21:54:01  <KUDr> but it is so
21:54:25  <RichK67> nice to see one trunk commit change tonite from a bug found by a mini IN player :)
21:54:32  <TL|Away> Celestar: what have I to do with SVN branches?
21:54:48  <RichK67> hi TL
21:55:03  <RichK67> its for my Mini IN
21:55:14  <KUDr> haaaa TL visited us! people celebrate!
21:55:21  <TL|Away> but I have nothing to do what goes inside SVN
21:55:34  <anboni> KUDr: ok, running the 4978 now :)
21:55:52  <TL|Away> if one of you wants an account to SVN, one of the devs has to request that to me, that is all
21:55:59  <TL|Away> or Darkvater btw, he can control it too :p
21:56:10  <TL|Away> (but most likely he doesn't know that :p)
21:57:07  <RichK67> how do i go about correctly creating a branch for committing, or is it purely server-side and i just checkout once created?
21:59:26  <TL|Away> that is my whole point :) Has nothing to do with server-side
21:59:34  <TL|Away> just someone who has full commit rights
21:59:40  <TL|Away> creates a dir in the dir branch
21:59:41  <TL|Away> and commits it
21:59:44  <TL|Away> ;)
21:59:47  <RichK67> ah, but that means i have to create my side correctly
22:00:20  <TL|Away> and if you make a branch, normally that is something like: svn copy svn:// svn://
22:00:25  <TL|Away> but,  youneed commitrights for that
22:00:33  <TL|Away> read the svn redbook ;)
22:00:48  <RichK67> okies, so it will be a full copy of the trunk, not a diff
22:00:58  <TL|Away> depends on what you want
22:01:03  <TL|Away> I just give suggestions and hints
22:01:31  <RichK67> its for mini IN, which would probably be best as a full trunk
22:01:41  <Sacro> TL|Away: we want 0.6.0
22:01:42  <Sacro> :)
22:01:51  <RichK67> patch is already 540Kb
22:01:54  <TL|Away> Sacro: I want a million
22:01:56  <TL|Away> your point here?
22:02:09  <Sacro> TL|Away: errm, none really
22:02:14  <TL|Away> ;)
22:02:27  <RichK67> im trying to understand what i need to do, so i dont mess it up for anyone else
22:02:56  <RichK67> how do i keep my branch in sync with trunk?
22:02:58  <Sacro> ive just realised i can create my own channel and spend all night kicking myself out it
22:03:36  <TL|Away> Sacro: should be fun ;)
22:03:51  <TL|Away> RichK67: svn merge -r1:2 trunk branch1
22:03:57  <Sacro> TL|Away: i need some light entertainment after today
22:04:02  <TL|Away> merges the diff from version 1 and 2 to branch1
22:04:10  <TL|Away> be careful that it doesn't meerg version 1
22:04:25  <TL|Away> (so merge -r1500:1600 and -r1601:1700, doens't merge 1600!)
22:04:30  <TL|Away> Sacro: why?
22:04:49  <Sacro> TL|Away: not well, girl i love is with someone else, hate my mum
22:05:07  <TL|Away> ...
22:05:08  *** Trippledence [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:05:13  <TL|Away> poor thing! Want a hug?
22:05:18  <TL|Away> let's give him a channel-hug guys!
22:05:27  * Sacro is scared what this could end up as
22:05:28  * XeryusTC hugs Sacro
22:05:31  <RichK67> okies - ty, ill RTFM :)
22:05:34  <TL|Away> Sacro: the girl I love was with someone else too... now she is with me :)
22:05:40  *** Trippledence [] has joined #openttd
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22:05:54  <Sacro> TL|Away: well, im kinda hoping that she'll come back to me
22:05:59  <TL|Away> ah
22:06:00  <TL|Away> :s
22:06:22  * RichK67 thinks: did TL steal Sacro's girl?
22:06:32  <TL|Away> nah, I stole her from someone else (A)
22:06:51  <TL|Away> but sorry to hear Sacro
22:06:54  <TL|Away> I hope it turns out well for you
22:07:19  <Sacro> TL|Away: yeah, im just trying to get back into work, but jobs round here are rubbish
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22:30:33  <morbidi> hello
22:31:17  <morbidi> where can I get grf's ?
22:32:10  <Prof_Frink>
22:32:13  <XeryusTC>
22:32:17  <XeryusTC> hmm
22:32:18  <morbidi> ohh
22:32:19  <morbidi> :)
22:32:20  <morbidi> thanks
22:32:21  <XeryusTC> Prof_Frink was faster
22:32:33  <morbidi> true :)
22:32:36  <Prof_Frink> That's because I rule
22:33:05  <Sacro> anyone here interested  in through the tube?
22:33:25  <Sacro> yeah but XeryusTC's link is clickable
22:33:52  <Prof_Frink> That depends on your terminal emulator
22:34:28  <XeryusTC> most clients only fetch links starting with http:// (or any other registered protocol) or www
22:34:34  <Prof_Frink> In Konsole they're both equally doubleclick-hilight-point at command bar-middleclick openable
22:35:09  <Sacro> hmm
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22:37:25  <morbidi> do I have to have ?
22:37:37  <morbidi> or I can just create a file named ?
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22:39:33  <RichK67> glx: ping
22:39:35  *** Borgz [] has joined #openttd
22:39:45  <glx> RichK67: pong
22:39:48  <RichK67> hi
22:39:51  <Sacro> morbidi: you need it
22:39:55  <Sacro> glx: RichK67 : pang
22:40:05  <glx> aaaaarrrrrg
22:40:07  <glx> :)
22:40:13  * Sacro loves that game
22:40:16  <morbidi> Sacro: hhmmm, how do I get it ?
22:40:22  *** Borgz is now known as Cipri
22:40:26  <morbidi> great game
22:40:28  <RichK67> i was wondering if svn has a function that lets me take a patch file and *remove* it from code?
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22:40:32  <Sacro> morbidi: you purchase Transport Tycoon deluxe
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22:40:39  <morbidi> Sacro: ohh :)
22:40:50  <Sacro> RichK67: yeah, grab the patch the other way around
22:40:53  <morbidi> so I cant play openttd unless I purchase ttd ?
22:41:10  <Sacro> RichK67: instead of before -> after , do after-> before
22:41:24  <glx> or patch -R
22:41:25  <RichK67> not what i mean
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22:42:20  <RichK67> eg. i have siggui in MiniIN, and a patch of siggui; can i extract siggui from MiniIN based on the patch, leaving a siggui-free MiniIN?
22:42:54  <Sacro> [23:42:02] <glx> or patch -R
22:43:27  <RichK67> im on windows, so i use tortoise, and can use svn... not patch...
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22:47:33  <Sacro> RichK67: why not use cygwin/mingw?
22:48:07  <glx> patch is available on
22:48:10  <RichK67> i have mingw... what can i use with that then?
22:48:16  <RichK67> glx: is it win32?
22:48:22  <glx> yes
22:48:24  <RichK67> doh
22:48:46  <Sacro> RichK67: i think you can probably dump patch straight into your mingw folder
22:50:02  <RichK67> okies
22:50:07  <glx> I just renamed patch to ppatch, because windows has it's own patch but not the on I want :)
22:52:18  <Sacro> lol
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23:24:25  <Sacro> anyone home?
23:24:36  <XeryusTC> i am
23:24:43  * glx too
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23:42:23  <Sacro> helloooooooooooo
23:42:36  <glx> again?
23:44:04  <Sacro> :)
23:44:09  <Sacro> yeah, i killed linux
23:44:42  <glx> how did you do that?
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23:50:24  <Sacro> errm, tried to open a 6MB PDF with Azureus running
23:50:46  <glx> he he
23:52:08  <Sacro> i think i might do some GRF making
23:52:36  <Sacro> maybe try and get my head around the coding side of things

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