Log for #openttd on 30th May 2006:
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00:00:37  <Sacro> back
00:01:12  <Sacro> Bjarni: your right, i am deranged
00:01:35  <Bjarni> !whatis deranged
00:01:37  <jmp_ghli> >Bjarni> Derange \De*range"\, v. t.   1. To put out of place, order, or rank; to disturb the proper arrangement or order of; to throw into disorder, confusion, or embarrassment; to disorder; to disarrange; as, to derange the plans of a commander, or the affairs of a nation. | 2. To disturb in action or function, as a part or organ, or the whole of a machine or organism. |A sudden fall deranges some of our internal parts. --Blair. | 3. To
00:01:58  <Bjarni> ok, what did you do this time?
00:02:14  *** jcs [] has joined #openttd
00:02:47  <jcs> Hi!
00:03:09  <Sacro>  well, im guessing its wrong that when a girl texts me saying she split up from her bloke, cos he got her pregnant and gave her 2 stds, and i see this as "ooh, that means shes single now"
00:03:19  <Sacro> hey jcs
00:04:44  <jcs> this game is amazing! Great work!
00:05:09  <Bjarni> Sacro: I tried to write a reply to that, but I don't know what to say......
00:05:32  <Sacro> Bjarni: just change the subject :)
00:06:05  <ln-> has anyone seen my CD marker pen?
00:06:11  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.7 | WebTranslator2 public beta test begun! | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | Anyone posting any or URL twice in 10 minutes will be banned | Sacro looks at pregnant women with stds
00:06:13  <Bjarni> done
00:06:16  <Bjarni> ln-: I got one
00:06:20  <Bjarni> you want to borrow it?
00:07:00  <Sacro> Bjarni: damnit, what next? post?
00:07:04  <ln-> sure
00:07:10  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.7 | WebTranslator2 public beta test begun! | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | Anyone posting any or URL twice in 10 minutes will be banned
00:07:20  <Bjarni> Sacro: now there is an idea
00:07:28  *** Hallo [] has quit []
00:07:45  <Sacro> i dont care, she's fit, and she works in a pub
00:07:46  <Bjarni> ln-: ok, when will you pass by to borrow it?
00:08:03  * Bjarni needs some sleep
00:08:06  * Sacro considers popping round to Bjarni's
00:08:40  <Bjarni> I read that as "she fits" and I was about to write "well, somebody opened her hole for you" or something like that
00:09:01  <Bjarni> Sacro: you know that there are some uncureable stds, right?
00:09:16  * Sacro checks the Wikipedia
00:09:31  * Bjarni notes that Sacro is turned on by women working in pubs
00:09:53  <Sacro> damn right, its hand pumps, means shes got good arms
00:09:57  <ln-> Bjarni: let's see, hmm, maybe next summer (2007).
00:10:18  <Bjarni> I might get a psychiatric degree with this case study. It's really interesting
00:10:42  * Sacro gives up the 1st one cos he cant spell it
00:10:45  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	damn right, its hand pumps, means shes got good arms <--- ahh, now that makes sense
00:10:52  <Bjarni> what is it?
00:10:56  <Bjarni> HIV?
00:11:09  <Bjarni> cus that would suck
00:11:40  <Bjarni> well, now you know
00:12:13  <Sacro> yes, not only what the symptoms are, what they use to cure it, but what it looks like
00:13:04  <Bjarni>
00:14:30  <Sacro> yeah, been there
00:16:02  <Bjarni> tried all of it?
00:16:21  <Sacro> what do you mean?
00:16:53  <Bjarni> looked through it to see if the unspellable one is there
00:17:07  <Sacro> yeah it is
00:17:41  <Bjarni> then you can spell it
00:17:50  <Sacro> yup
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00:18:17  <Bjarni> then what is that nonsense about you can't spell it?
00:18:45  <Sacro> lol
00:18:46  <Sacro> i can now
00:19:25  <Bjarni> anyway is those stds cureable?
00:19:28  <Bjarni> *are
00:19:46  <Sacro> yes
00:20:00  <Bjarni> that makes two lucky people
00:20:03  <Bjarni> her
00:20:11  <Bjarni> and the guy, who gave her those stds
00:21:37  <Sacro> yeah, i wonder how many people i can tell before he finds out...
00:21:59  <Bjarni> that they are curable?
00:22:04  * Sacro considers changing his msn name
00:22:11  <Sacro> nah, just that he has them
00:22:11  <Bjarni> only tell her
00:22:15  <Sacro> errm, she told me
00:23:58  <Bjarni> tell some people and gang up on him to remove the disease spreading device between his legs to protect women
00:24:05  <Bjarni> if you do that, then he will learn it
00:24:07  <Bjarni> the hard way
00:24:19  <Bjarni> I'm not sure what the police would say to that though
00:24:34  <Sacro> well, they probably wouldnt care
00:25:05  <Bjarni> oh, you live in London West End, I guess
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00:26:00  <Sacro> no, Hull, you've never seen a more wretched hive of scum and villainy
00:26:43  <Bjarni> oh, I heard of such places
00:27:13  <Bjarni> I even heard of an incident where two guys beat up a 3rd guy. The police walked by without acting
00:27:22  <Bjarni> I don't know if it's true or not
00:28:06  <Sacro> yeah, it can be
00:30:57  <Sacro> its mad
00:31:54  <Sacro> just thought, i have to deal with the police
00:36:54  <Bjarni> if I were a policeman, I would stop you for routine questioning as well
00:37:12  <Bjarni> you appears to be able to have lost all sense of humanity, so you could do a lot of stuff
00:37:36  <Bjarni> also, you aren't that dangerous to the police, so they can do stuff to you without risking their lifes
00:37:45  <Bjarni> goodnight
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00:43:45  <CIA-3> richk * r5023 /branch/MiniIN/ (34 files in 4 dirs): [MiniIN]: Sync with trunk, which adds YAPF files not added to earlier commit.
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02:04:24  <jcs> bye bye
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02:44:19  <Tobin> Morning people.
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03:37:30  <amix> best game ever
03:37:35  <amix> I love it :)
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04:55:24  <roboman> hello
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05:09:37  <Tobin> Has anyone done a decent comparison of NPF and YAPF is terms of speed?
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05:42:09  <Celestar> back
05:42:12  <Celestar> Tobin: yes I have
05:42:24  <Tobin> And?
05:42:30  <Celestar> YAPF is faster than NTP
05:42:46  <Tobin> And NTP is faster than NPF.
05:42:51  <Tobin> Righto.
05:42:54  <Celestar> but it's about a factor of 1:3 to 1:10 between YAPF and NPF
05:43:05  <Tobin> That much?
05:43:08  <Tobin> Wow.
05:43:28  <Tobin> Is YAPF on by default now?
05:43:46  <Celestar> no
05:43:49  <Celestar> NTP is default
05:45:18  <Celestar> why is my linker so slow :S
05:46:03  <Tobin> Erm, so "Use YAPF for trains" doesn't actually turn on YAPF?
05:48:15  <Tobin> That would mean that the "New global pathfinding (NPF, overrides NTP)" would, rather confusingly, enable YAPF?
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06:00:02  * Celestar hates fileserver outages
06:01:17  <CIA-3> celestar * r5024 /branch/bridge/ (39 files in 6 dirs): [bridge] Sync with trunk up to 5023
06:01:19  <Celestar> crappy crappy crap
06:03:59  <Celestar> note to self: Quota checks on a 1.2TB RAID are something fucked up
06:06:21  <Alltaken> hi guys
06:06:29  <Celestar> HI Alltaken , how's life?
06:09:27  <Alltaken> life is fun and hectic
06:09:44  <Alltaken> got a job, got a dual monitor setup, have university to finish... :D
06:09:55  <Alltaken> 3200x1200 pixels of flat screen goodness :D
06:10:25  <Celestar> oh
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06:10:32  <Celestar> I only have 2560x1024 of TFTs :)
06:12:23  <KUDr> <Celestar> NTP is default <-- i think YAPF is default
06:12:37  <KUDr> for trains and RVs
06:12:42  <Celestar> it is?
06:12:45  <KUDr> yes
06:12:57  <KUDr> overrides all
06:13:11  <KUDr> if nobody changed it
06:13:33  <KUDr> to force users to test it
06:13:36  <Celestar> ^^
06:13:38  <Celestar> good idea
06:14:02  <Celestar> but old openttd.cfgs have it disabled or not?
06:14:03  <KUDr> wanted massive testing
06:14:09  <KUDr> old .cfg didn't have that settings
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06:14:20  <KUDr> so when added, default is on
06:14:43  <KUDr> except for ships
06:14:43  <Celestar> ok
06:14:43  <Celestar> friggen crap
06:14:43  <Celestar> Alltaken: I need new signals :P
06:15:16  <KUDr> gm blathijs
06:15:29  <Alltaken> Celestar:  yeah mine are unfortunately CRT's. will get TFT's soons
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06:15:35  <Alltaken> signals..... what signals
06:15:48  * peter1138 only has 2048 x 768 :(
06:16:14  * Vornicus has only 1280x1024.
06:16:17  <peter1138> Alltaken: signals that fit under bridges :)
06:16:37  * Vornicus has tried to use dual monitors, found it entirely useless
06:16:39  * KUDr has 1280x2048
06:16:40  * Prof_Frink has 800x480 \o/
06:17:02  <Alltaken> KUDr LOL
06:17:14  <Alltaken> Vornicus: i find it highly usefull for animating
06:17:14  * Celestar wants a 3rd monitor
06:17:23  <Celestar> I find it highly useful for coding
06:17:23  <KUDr> Alltaken: vertically, yes
06:17:41  <peter1138> i find it highly useful for ircing
06:17:42  <Alltaken> i have my curve editors and all that fun stuff to the right, my main stuff to the left
06:17:43  <Celestar> I'm a horizontal person (=
06:18:00  <Celestar> back in a jif
06:18:17  <Alltaken> peter1138:  Hmmmmm signals under bridges..... since signals are shorter than trains they should fit:P
06:18:29  <peter1138> Alltaken: they aren't
06:18:30  <Alltaken> KUDr they must be light ;)
06:18:41  <KUDr> heh
06:18:43  <KUDr> yes
06:18:55  <Alltaken> my monitors are 25Kg each
06:19:14  <KUDr> my are 3-4 kg
06:19:51  <Celestar> Alltaken: presignals are not shorter ..
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06:20:50  <peter1138> the british semaphores are massive too
06:21:09  <Alltaken> well lets make signals like moles, they just pop up
06:21:25  <Alltaken> then you whack them with a hammer on the way past :P
06:21:52  <Celestar> too much booze?
06:21:54  <Vornicus> whackasignal.
06:22:57  <Alltaken> nope, no booze
06:22:58  <Alltaken> business i think does it just as well :P
06:23:12  <peter1138> we should go back to the two height levels for bridges idea
06:23:22  <Celestar> :)
06:24:10  <Alltaken> yep that was my plan :D
06:24:17  <Alltaken> glad you all agree :D
06:24:37  <Alltaken> how is the 32bpp going?
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06:24:43  <peter1138> not at all at the moment
06:24:56  <peter1138> egladil?
06:25:00  <Alltaken> so there are no chances of putting in the new ground tiles>
06:25:18  <peter1138> well, there is some stuff done already
06:25:21  <Alltaken> would be great to start putting stuff in, so that things can be knocked off the To-Do list
06:25:26  <peter1138> i suspect it is a bit out of date though
06:27:57  * Vornicus yays for yapf!
06:28:29  <Celestar> Vornicus: ?
06:28:38  <Vornicus> Idunno.
06:28:44  <Vornicus> it felt like an appropriate thing to say.
06:29:46  <Vornicus> seriously though - the pathfinder selection thingy in customize patches should really get a rewrite, I can't tell what pathfinder I'm running.
06:30:09  <peter1138> ntp -> npf -> yapf
06:30:50  <Alltaken> peter1138:  why would it be out of date, ahs the drawing code changed a lot?
06:30:53  <Vornicus> (suggestion: make each transport mode have its own pathfinder listing in customize patches
06:31:10  <Alltaken> what developments have been effecting OTTD recently? what are the current coding projects?
06:31:30  <peter1138> Alltaken: no, the rest of it has though
06:32:26  <peter1138> Celestar: should RoadFindPathToStop() be modified to use YAPF?
06:32:55  <Alltaken> has the code cleanup been happening?
06:33:03  <peter1138> in places
06:33:36  <Celestar> peter1138: yes I was going to poke KUDr about it today :)
06:33:44  <peter1138> :D
06:38:06  <Celestar> KUDr: you there?
06:38:28  <Celestar> Vornicus: imho NPF and NTP should be removed now (NTP might be a compile time option for those who can't run C++)
06:39:02  <KUDr> [08:38:04] <Celestar> KUDr: you there? <-- back
06:40:37  * Tobin bahs at the people who can't use C++
06:41:18  <Tobin> If KUDr's idea of all signals being PBSesque in nature comes to fruition then they'll be out of luck anyway.
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06:41:51  <Tobin> KUDr: By the way I did some initial digging to see if the AI could select better routes using YAPF.
06:42:16  <KUDr> and result?
06:42:35  <Tobin> My primary conclusion was that the AI's code sucks.
06:42:59  <Tobin> But there are a couple of places when it has a start and end tile (plus directions) and just joins them up.
06:43:07  <Tobin> More or less.
06:43:33  <KUDr> then i guess we can connect them using yapf
06:43:41  <Tobin> Yeah.
06:43:42  <KUDr> will it bring some value?
06:44:18  <KUDr> is the path finding the reason why AI is so stupid?
06:44:29  <Tobin> Some, it'll still build stupid routes but it'll use less, or at least more direct, spaghetti.
06:45:18  <Tobin> It wouldn't so much looping, overlapping, tangled track all over the place.
06:45:45  <KUDr> then you can prepare interface and i can try to implement it
06:46:09  <KUDr> but need to find some way how i can test it
06:46:13  <Tobin> That'll have to wait until after exams. :(
06:46:20  <KUDr> before i tell you it is finished
06:46:25  <Tobin> Ah.
06:46:27  <Tobin> Hmm.
06:46:30  <roboman> bye
06:46:36  <Vornicus> I find that the AI tends to build then unbuild then rebuild then unbuild then rebuild
06:46:38  <Celestar> KUDr: could you hack multistop so that it uses yapf?
06:47:12  <KUDr> i don't know how multistop works
06:47:17  <Celestar> KUDr: ok
06:47:20  <KUDr> i must study it first
06:47:40  <Celestar> static uint RoadFindPathToStop(const Vehicle *v, TileIndex tile)
06:47:48  <Celestar> KUDr: only this one function
06:47:52  <KUDr> or do it the same - give me skeleton of function with description what it should do
06:47:56  <peter1138> yeah, and only once :)
06:48:13  <peter1138> basically all it needs is the distance from a vehicle to a stop
06:48:17  <KUDr> to any stop?
06:48:20  <Celestar> KUDr: v is the vehicle in question, tile is the destination tile where it wants to go, and it returns a "cost" or "distance"
06:48:28  <Celestar> tile is a roadstop
06:48:37  <KUDr> aha
06:48:53  <KUDr> and you run it for each stop?
06:49:09  <KUDr> to see what is the best?
06:50:05  <Celestar> yes
06:50:30  <KUDr> is it not better to give me array of stops and their preferences?
06:50:32  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5025 /branch/utf8/newgrf_text.c: [utf8] Translate TTDPatch control codes and text into UTF-8
06:50:36  <Celestar> roadveh_cmd.c:1655 is of interest
06:51:08  <Celestar> KUDr: because of the constant
06:51:19  <Celestar> i don't have preferences
06:51:26  <KUDr> badness = (rs->num_vehicles + 1) * (rs->num_vehicles + 1) + dist / NPF_TILE_LENGTH;
06:51:28  <Celestar> yes
06:51:36  <Celestar> dist is 100 for one straight tile
06:51:41  <Celestar> but we can change that
06:51:52  <KUDr> but it can be callback
06:52:43  <KUDr> (rs->num_vehicles + 1) * (rs->num_vehicles + 1) == your part of cost
06:52:52  <Celestar> as you prefer
06:52:57  <KUDr> dist / NPF_TILE_LENGTH == path cost
06:53:01  <peter1138> as long as it works :)
06:53:06  <peter1138> and it's called quite a lot too
06:53:19  <peter1138> (but probably not as much as normal pathfinding)
06:53:30  <KUDr> yes, but then we can select the proper one at one turn
06:53:54  <Celestar> peter1138: in my 400-vehicle game, Pathfinding is about < 10% of the CPU time ..
06:54:26  <KUDr> Celestar: but they do the job as 40 trains
06:54:31  <KUDr> or 50
06:54:41  <Celestar> KUDr: 170 trains, 220 road vehicles
06:55:11  <KUDr> 220 RVs do the same job as 170 trains?
06:55:13  <peter1138> hmm, i need tron's character map
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06:56:58  <Celestar> KUDr: ?
06:57:31  <KUDr> 400-vehicle game, Pathfinding is about < 10% = this was 170 + 220?
06:57:53  <KUDr> try to imagine 400 RVs
06:58:07  <KUDr> they will take the same PF CPU
06:58:21  <KUDr> and will do job like 50 trains
06:58:31  <KUDr> so they are still slow
06:59:39  <KUDr> so in multistop the RV selects one stop each new day?
07:01:51  <KUDr> ohh, time. i must go
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07:02:54  <peter1138> only if their slot expires
07:05:19  <Celestar> KUDr: no
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07:41:46  <White_Rabbit> MiHaMiX, are you here? I've almost finished translating
07:42:42  <White_Rabbit> can I edit the default English too? the word 'lorry' is used for every truck-related phrase, but then the British English newspaper reads 'Citizens celebrate: first truck arrives at...'
07:44:18  <White_Rabbit> oh, I can't anyway
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07:54:03  <Celestar> peter1138: Darkvater: discussion request
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08:01:54  <peter1138> hmm?
08:02:03  <peter1138> use the mailing list? ;)
08:02:21  <Celestar> I need a discussion on how to solve the graphical problems ..
08:02:52  <peter1138> (ow)
08:03:09  <peter1138> well, unfortunately i'm back at work today
08:03:23  <peter1138> so i'll be around all day :D
08:03:55  <egladil> [08:24] peter1138: egladil? <=== yes?
08:04:13  <peter1138> i was wondering how 32bpp was going
08:04:25  <peter1138> would it take much to get it synced?
08:05:21  <egladil> hopefully not to much work
08:05:46  <egladil> i'm planning to start getting it back in synch later today, or tomorrow
08:05:53  <egladil> i had my last exam today :)
08:05:56  <peter1138> woo
08:06:24  * peter1138 checks out his utf8 branch
08:06:43  *** mikl [n=mikl@pdpc/supporter/active/mikl] has joined #openttd
08:07:08  <egladil> so now i'm free until mid july when i'm going to work a couple of weeks
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08:24:11  <Celestar> \o/ egladil
08:25:07  <peter1138> yes \o/
08:26:02  <Celestar> maybe 32bpp for 0.5.0? ;)
08:26:24  <peter1138> tum te tum
08:26:31  <egladil> and when would that be?
08:26:42  <peter1138> next week ;D
08:28:13  <egladil> hehe
08:30:28  <egladil> first i have to get it in synch
08:31:20  <ln->
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08:35:25  <vondel> easy way to get paid for an upgrade
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08:46:51  <roboman> dinner
08:46:59  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5026 /branch/utf8/unix.c: [utf8] Tell iconv-using code that we use UTF-8 internally, not ISO-8859-15
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08:56:01  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5027 /branch/utf8/ (console.c misc_gui.c window.c window.h): [utf8] Change window event to contain (16 bit) unicode character instead of (8 bit) ascii
08:58:10  * Fujitsu posts a quote twice.
08:59:54  <CIA-3> egladil * r5028 /branch/32bpp/ (65 files in 6 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4546:4600 from trunk.
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09:09:05  <Celestar> egladil: syncing it should be easy, you're change are mostly perpendicular
09:09:23  <egladil> yeah
09:09:33  <peter1138> there's just a lot of revisions :)
09:09:51  <Darkvater> 'ello
09:09:58  *** mode/#openttd [-o Darkvater] by Darkvater
09:10:05  <Darkvater> the prodigal son has returned ^^
09:10:08  <peter1138> morning lord vater
09:10:15  <CIA-3> egladil * r5029 /branch/32bpp/ (41 files in 6 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4600:4700 from trunk.
09:10:33  <Darkvater> just to cut off any discussion: no time, just here to watch the discussion enfold; have a project due for Friday
09:10:50  <Darkvater> ah nice to see you egladil :)
09:10:52  <Darkvater> orudge: ping
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09:11:07  * Darkvater is determined to get the donation amount from orudge
09:11:50  <Celestar> Darkvater: opinion on bridges. 1) merge and solve GUI issues later, 2) solve GUI issues and merge later
09:12:34  <peter1138> GUI issues?
09:12:43  <Darkvater> GUI issues are independent from bridges
09:12:46  <Celestar> peter1138: signals poke through bridges and stuff
09:12:48  <Darkvater> that is if you mean the pillars
09:12:50  <peter1138> hmm
09:12:51  <peter1138> that's not GUI
09:13:05  <Celestar> ok
09:13:08  <Darkvater> he, see the free context peter1138 :)
09:13:09  <Celestar> the viewport issies
09:20:07  <Darkvater> Celestar: how do you plan fixing GFX issues?
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09:23:45  * peter1138 ponders Textbuf
09:23:50  <peter1138> maybe if i have two strings
09:23:58  <peter1138> one of wide chars and one a utf-8 encoded string
09:24:41  <peter1138> hmm, could just work
09:25:51  <Darkvater> why need two?
09:26:03  <Darkvater> is decoding so slow to just do it every time on print?
09:26:27  <peter1138> Darkvater: more inserting / deleting multibyte characters is a bitch
09:26:33  <Darkvater> or of course go the other way and store the UTF-8 and decode it on change, which happens far less often than converting for printing
09:26:33  <peter1138> hmm
09:26:35  <peter1138> ah
09:26:47  <peter1138> but it could be converted in the editting routine
09:27:11  <peter1138> Darkvater: it's slower than ascii text handling, but nothing like as slow as sprite blitting, heh
09:27:38  <Darkvater> you could go with my second idea then
09:27:38  <peter1138> hmm
09:27:46  <peter1138> yes
09:27:48  <Darkvater> or even...damn
09:27:51  <Darkvater> that would be C++
09:27:53  <peter1138> hehe
09:27:56  <Darkvater> tb.print()
09:28:01  <peter1138> we already store the utf-8 encoded version
09:28:12  <peter1138> so just decode it, edit that, then reencode
09:28:13  <Darkvater> tb.to_char()
09:28:23  <Darkvater> that would be the most ideal
09:28:47  <peter1138> heh
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09:30:39  <Darkvater> bah
09:30:48  * Darkvater goes back to eclipse+soap
09:31:06  <Alltaken> Who here is annoyed by bobbingabout?
09:33:43  * Darkvater isn't
09:33:56  * Darkvater doesn't know whatabout though ;p
09:33:58  <Alltaken> :P
09:34:11  <Alltaken> his sig just annoys me to no end
09:34:47  <Darkvater> the PNG JPG ?
09:35:05  <peter1138> he said openttd sucks too
09:35:14  <peter1138> but
09:35:22  <peter1138> he's on my "i don't actually care" list
09:36:03  <Darkvater> hmm for that attitude he does sure post a lot in the openttd forums
09:36:09  <White_Rabbit> I found a '{BLACK}Rebuild company headquarters elsewhere for 1% cost of company value' this actually the case/
09:36:11  <White_Rabbit> case?*
09:36:17  <Darkvater> yes
09:38:21  <White_Rabbit> but why? for me, it costs £8 million just to move it
09:39:07  <Vornicus> ...what does moving company hq do for you anyway?
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09:41:04  <White_Rabbit> it provides passengers and mail, it can get in the way of yours or other people's tracks and stations, and lots of other things
09:41:31  <Darkvater> White_Rabbit: what why?
09:43:11  <White_Rabbit> why is there a cost for moving your HQ, other than the construction costs which you pay for when you build it for the first time?
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09:43:34  * Vornicus eyes white_rabbit's list of things
09:43:37  <Vornicus> okay, so, uh
09:43:56  <Darkvater> White_Rabbit: because you need to 1. demolish your HQ and 2. build it again
09:44:26  <Darkvater> and because you're not supposed to move your HQ, unless you really want. A little incentive
09:44:37  <Alltaken> peter1138:  yeah the PNG jpg thing just pisses me off :P
09:44:44  <White_Rabbit> who decided people didn't want to move their HQs?
09:44:53  <Darkvater> Chris Sawyer
09:44:55  <Vornicus> there's nothing there that you can't do better with other things
09:45:07  <Darkvater> for the last 9 years you could NOT move your HQ
09:45:21  <peter1138> generally i don't bother placing an HQ
09:45:23  <Darkvater> now you can and you're complaining that it costs a measily 1% of your company's value?
09:45:40  <Vornicus> (1% of company value can buy a lot of crap)
09:45:43  <Alltaken> 1%,  dang chop my arm off why don't you
09:45:56  <Alltaken> imagine if someone stole 1% of your leg, you would not be happy about that
09:46:09  * Vornicus steals Alltaken's big toe.
09:46:09  <Alltaken> thats like a few toes or somthing
09:46:12  <Darkvater> then don't move your HQ :)
09:46:25  <Alltaken> it was free last year.... :P
09:47:32  <White_Rabbit> I did not say that it's too expensive, but that 1% is not a sensible value since your company value can increase far beyond what would be a reasonable price to demolish and build a normal building...funding a primary industry only costs £7 million at the start of the game, and secondary industries cost even less
09:48:26  <Darkvater> you have NO idea how much it costs to move an office, do you?
09:48:52  <Darkvater> where I work at Shell, they only moved about 50 people to a new office two streets down the road and that cost about 4-5 million euros
09:49:00  <Darkvater> and the office was already there
09:49:16  <Celestar> food
09:49:20  <Darkvater> good
09:49:32  <Darkvater> dammit, me gets to do some work
09:51:24  <peter1138> hmm
09:51:33  <peter1138> so i shall sort out the text input
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09:52:22  <peter1138> then perhaps handle charset conversion between filesystem
09:54:57  <Darkvater> action 7/9 check 0A now jumps if the GRFID is not found at all < ?
09:59:32  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: what to do with that RoadFindPathToStop()?
09:59:38  <KUDr_wrk> should i commit it?
09:59:47  <KUDr_wrk> or do you want patch?
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10:03:11  <peter1138> Darkvater: there was a reason for it, that i can't remember now
10:03:31  <peter1138> ah
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10:03:49  <Darkvater> peter1138: no that's ttdp's commit. Just confused what it actually means
10:03:49  <peter1138> it says in the spec, that's why
10:04:06  <peter1138> grfid not found is not the same as grfid not active
10:04:07  <peter1138> i think
10:04:25  <Darkvater> ah
10:04:32  <peter1138> i'm not quite sure how you are supposed to skip stuff if a grfid isn't found...
10:05:01  <peter1138> oh, i guess you do it the other way -- test if it is found
10:05:23  <Darkvater> well, just a bit strange, but ok
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10:05:57  <peter1138> our grf checks are only vaguely like those of ttdp
10:06:17  <peter1138> sometimes things are not right because our loading stages are different
10:06:24  <peter1138> (but only rarely)
10:06:25  *** Fujitsu [] has joined #openttd
10:06:35  <Darkvater> ;p
10:06:53  <Darkvater> damn this fuckin' java crap....why does it have to torture me?
10:06:56  <peter1138> i think it would be too much work for little gain to change it
10:07:03  <Darkvater> java, eclipse, soap, msd...gaaah
10:07:10  <peter1138> heh
10:07:12  <Darkvater> msd even
10:07:13  <Darkvater> mds
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10:29:40  <CIA-3> egladil * r5030 /branch/32bpp/ (34 files in 4 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4700:4745 from trunk.
10:31:23  <Tobin> Oooer, activity on the 32bpp branch. :)
10:33:01  <izhirahider> what's the 32bpp branch for?
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10:33:42  <Tobin> The 32bpp work.
10:34:02  <Tobin> There's a forum thread with pretty pictures somewhere.
10:34:45  <Tobin> egladil: Does the 32bpp branch only include things like the nicely blended zoom or does it have a new sprite loader too?
10:35:06  <egladil> it will have a new sprite loader, but that is not yet written
10:35:23  <Tobin> Righto.
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10:36:38  * Tobin remembers Mek's 32bpp work
10:36:40  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5031 /branch/utf8/misc_gui.c: [utf8] Change credits text to UTF-8 encoding.
10:37:03  * peter1138 ponders writing the opengl driver
10:37:33  <Tobin> Heh, I've been playing with OpenGL a lot recently and was thinking about that sort of thing too.
10:37:50  <Tobin> Teehee:
10:38:03  <peter1138> mmm
10:38:30  <peter1138> problem is
10:38:35  <Tobin> I'm quite happy with the Cocoa driver though. :P
10:38:39  <peter1138> in ottd the driver only provides the surface
10:38:42  <peter1138> not blitting routines
10:39:00  <KUDr_wrk> peter1138: shoud i commit the new RoadFindPathToStop() using YAPF?
10:39:11  <peter1138> KUDr_wrk: if you want. it should be a tiny change, no?
10:39:21  <KUDr_wrk> relatively
10:39:31  <peter1138> got a diff?
10:39:32  <KUDr_wrk> you will see
10:39:39  <KUDr_wrk> can do
10:39:45  <peter1138> or jsut commit :)
10:39:50  <peter1138> hmm, we'll have to add you to the devs ;)
10:40:04  <KUDr_wrk> ok, so i commit (can be reverted)
10:40:08  * Tobin looks at the Cocoa driver's source
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10:41:11  <peter1138> hmm, i wonder if an opengl driver could use video memory for the sprite cache
10:41:48  <Tobin> Can you compile bitmap drawing into OpenGL display lists?
10:42:21  <peter1138> dunno, i don't know too much about it
10:42:46  <Tobin> Hang on I'll have a look in my copy of Angel's book.
10:43:53  <Celestar> back
10:44:26  <Celestar> Tobin: I've done some ottd-gl experiments
10:44:40  <Tobin> Celestar: 2D or 3D?
10:45:31  * Vornicus has done some 3d work, but hasn't looked at it in a long time.
10:45:35  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: will it be OK as log message?
10:45:35  <KUDr_wrk> -CodeChange: [YAPF] If YAPF for RVs is on it is used also for multistop.
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10:47:41  <peter1138> i didn't want to touch 3d
10:48:11  <Tobin> Me neither, but I thought that is what Celestar has played with.
10:48:17  <peter1138> yeah
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10:49:50  <Vornicus> <--- some stuff I did
10:50:31  <peter1138> that's not opengl, and it's 3d not 2d
10:50:32  <Tobin> Vornicus: Orthographic 3D?
10:50:47  <Vornicus> orthographic 3d, and no, it's not openGL.
10:50:57  <Tobin> What is it then?
10:51:08  <Vornicus> <--- as far as I got in OpenGL
10:51:14  <Vornicus> It's mockups in POV-Ray.
10:51:34  <Vornicus> While I could do the same thing in OpenGL, I started trying to figure out textures and got lost.
10:52:28  <CIA-3> egladil * r5032 /branch/32bpp/ (newgrf_station.c openttd.dsp openttd.vcproj): [32bpp] -Sync r4745:4746 from trunk.
10:52:39  <Tobin> Meh, I only ever bother to turn on smooth shading and calculate the vertex normal myself.
10:52:48  <Vornicus> (though the POV mockups are entirely triangles and lines)
10:52:48  <peter1138> egladil: one rev at a time? :)
10:53:04  <egladil> that one was special
10:53:22  <egladil> openttd.dsp was completly redone
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10:53:29  <CIA-3> KUDr * r5033 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -CodeChange: [YAPF] RoadFindPathToStop() can now use YAPF for multistop handling.
10:54:22  <peter1138> ah, some constnesses
10:54:32  <KUDr_wrk> yes
10:54:55  <peter1138> i would've done that in three commits, heh
10:55:14  <KUDr_wrk> huh
10:55:16  <peter1138> 1) constness 2) add the distance function 3) change to multistop
10:55:19  <KUDr_wrk> so granular?
10:55:30  <peter1138> so i get lots of commits ;)
10:55:51  <KUDr_wrk> yes, but if you do forst that function and then you must change cons in order to get it work?
10:56:31  <Noldo> that's why the constness is the first one
10:56:52  <KUDr_wrk> Noldo: but i didn't know that it will be needed
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10:57:02  <KUDr_wrk> it was done as last
10:57:13  <peter1138> i don't commit things in the order i write them :)
10:57:25  <KUDr_wrk> aha, that is the point
10:57:36  <KUDr_wrk> ok, i learn every day something
10:57:38  <peter1138> maybe i should
10:57:46  <peter1138> i could put newsounds in in one go
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10:59:45  <KUDr_wrk> but i wonder how you would do that. Make another checkout elsewhere and do const there and then commit, update the first and continue?
11:00:00  <peter1138> i make diffs all the time
11:00:11  <KUDr_wrk> aha
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11:00:26  <Tobin> peter1138: You can compile bitmap drawing commands into OpenGL display lists. I can only imagine that most implementations would be clever enough to store this easily available memory.
11:00:59  *** DjViper- is now known as DjViper
11:02:16  <peter1138> hmm
11:02:30  <peter1138> the display lists would be very short
11:02:30  <peter1138> or
11:02:34  * Celestar goes checking KUDr_wrk's last commit
11:02:35  <peter1138> change a lot
11:02:44  <Tobin> Why am I dropping so many words and letters tonight?
11:02:46  <Celestar> Tobin: Display Lists are too slow for the terrain.
11:03:03  <Celestar> WAY too slow
11:03:12  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: thanks, then post me PM - i have another meeting now
11:03:18  * Vornicus considers the kind of madness he considered earlier.
11:03:19  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: roger
11:03:21  <Tobin> Why would they change a lot? Aren't sprites called by number only?
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11:03:50  <Vornicus> One of the reasons I made smooth terrain is so I could add smooth rails to it.
11:04:00  <Tobin> Celestar: You mean a display list for the entire terrain?
11:04:01  <Vornicus> But I never got around to writing anything that actually made smooth rails
11:04:38  <Celestar> Tobin: why would that make sense?
11:04:44  <Celestar> Tobin: store the terrain in a VBO
11:04:48  <Vornicus> no, no, no
11:05:13  <Celestar> Tobin: I have working code for that
11:05:17  <Celestar> 3 lines for the drawing :)
11:05:20  <Vornicus> half the problem is that you have to cull 95% of the terrain anyway.
11:05:40  <Tobin> Celestar: It wouldn't. I was thinking 2D with the bitmap drawing in display lists. I.e one tile type would have a display list, another type another...
11:06:05  <Celestar> Tobin: ah.
11:06:07  <Celestar> Vornicus: yes.
11:06:16  <Celestar> Tobin: I'm talking about full 3d
11:06:20  <Celestar> Vornicus: have you seen my stuff?
11:06:21  <Tobin> Yeah, but in 2D there's no point caching the entire terrain as one list. I'm not sure why you'd do it in 3D either, since it keeps changing.
11:06:21  *** RichK67 [] has joined #openttd
11:06:35  <Tobin> Celestar: Oh, OK. We're talking about different things. :)
11:06:46  <RichK67> hi all#
11:06:47  <Vornicus> You sent it to me, but I couldn't get it to build because of its X11 bindings
11:06:58  <Celestar> Vornicus: what platform are you on?
11:07:19  *** Mucht|zZz [] has quit ["I'll be back!"]
11:07:25  <Vornicus> OSX, with a totally hosed X11 app.
11:07:31  <Tobin> You could still store each tile type in a display list for 3D though. In fact you end up with fewer display lists than GRF sprites since some slopes are just rotations of others.
11:07:37  *** Fujitsu [] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
11:07:43  <Celestar> Tobin: you on linux?
11:07:50  <Tobin> Celestar: MacOS.
11:07:53  *** Fujitsu_ is now known as Fujitsu
11:07:59  * Tobin has to go cook
11:08:21  <Celestar> I can draw a 128x128 map (more than we need) in ~10 milliseconds
11:08:38  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: do I have any debug switches for yapf?
11:09:38  <CIA-3> egladil * r5034 /branch/32bpp/ (50 files in 5 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4746:4800 from trunk.
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11:11:34  <Vornicus> wait, it takes you 10ms to draw a 128x128 map?
11:11:40  <Vornicus> That's a bit long...
11:11:47  <Celestar> only the terrain
11:11:52  <Celestar> Vornicus: the whole map, not culled
11:12:13  <Vornicus> (especially consideringwhat modern games are expected to do.  Consider Far Cry, for instance)
11:13:14  <Celestar> Vornicus: a 128x128 map are 128x128x2 triangles
11:13:19  <Celestar> drawing at 100fps
11:13:44  <Celestar> that's 3.5 million triangles per second
11:13:50  <Celestar> plus 3.5 million textures per second
11:14:24  <hylje> what, 3d engine ?
11:14:35  <Celestar> OpenGL
11:14:54  <hylje> for ottd ?
11:15:15  <Celestar> more general experiments
11:15:23  <hylje> ok
11:15:28  <Vornicus> Yes.  Some of us are perverted and self-hating.
11:16:14  <peter1138> :)
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11:16:37  <Celestar> Vornicus: I don't see much room for optimization in the application level
11:16:41  <Celestar> (if you wanna draw 128x128 tiles)
11:16:47  <Celestar> if you wanna draw less... draw leww
11:16:48  <Celestar> less*
11:17:30  <peter1138> problem is you need to draw a
11:17:34  <peter1138> /\
11:17:35  <peter1138> \/
11:17:37  <peter1138> shape
11:17:44  <peter1138> (of the map)
11:17:53  <Celestar> oh wait
11:17:56  <Vornicus> ?
11:18:34  <Celestar> ok there is NO room for optimization
11:18:42  <Celestar> drawing the map takes 20 microseconds
11:18:45  <peter1138> lol
11:18:49  <Celestar> swapping the buffers 5 milliseconds
11:19:23  <Vornicus> The map really is square, you know.  The camera is rotated 30 degrees around x and then 45 degrees around y.  Each height level is 0.204 of a cell width.
11:19:44  <Vornicus> Ah.  Well if that's the case, then there's no problem then..
11:20:10  <Celestar> peter1138: opengl cares crap about how your triangles are oriented in space
11:20:51  <Celestar> maybe I have vsync on?
11:21:11  <Vornicus> Perhaps - what's your monitor's refresh rate set to?
11:21:23  <Celestar> nope I haven'
11:21:23  <Celestar> t
11:21:26  <Celestar> 60Hz
11:21:43  <Vornicus> eh.  20us is fast enough.
11:21:58  <Vornicus> way fast enough.
11:22:05  <Celestar> but the buffer swapping takes longer
11:22:15  <Vornicus> well, of course it does.
11:22:34  <Vornicus> But that's not going to change if you add buildings and make the terrain smooth.
11:22:42  <Celestar> I'm not sure
11:22:43  <Celestar> lets see
11:23:19  <Celestar> it does change
11:23:24  <Celestar> (because it has to copy more data)
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11:24:30  <Celestar> "drawing" a 256x256 map takes 20 microseconds
11:24:46  <Alltaken> can't openGL deal with squares?
11:24:49  <Vornicus> On the other hand, it sounds like you're sending the texture with each object - make the texture native and you might get better performance.
11:24:55  <Celestar> Alltaken: yes it can
11:24:57  <Alltaken> shouldn't quads be fed to it, then it sorts the rest out?
11:25:07  <Vornicus> Alltaken: it /can/, but usually graphics cards fake it by drawing two triangles instead.
11:25:14  <Celestar> Alltaken: most of the tiles are non square
11:25:29  <Vornicus> same, indeed, with polys
11:25:36  <peter1138> most tiles are flat...
11:25:45  <peter1138> hmm
11:25:47  <peter1138> depends on the landscape :)
11:25:54  <peter1138> most tiles can be non-flat too
11:25:54  <peter1138> heh
11:26:00  <Jpl> a square is always two triangles.. ;)
11:26:13  <Vornicus> Most tiles are flat, but it's more expensive to test for non-flat tiles than it is to just send it all as triangle pairs
11:26:17  <Celestar> peter1138: you can draw them as 2 triangles or one square, it makes little difference
11:26:42  <Vornicus> essentially because there is no real difference between sending a quad and sending two triangles.
11:27:45  <Celestar> not really
11:28:35  <Celestar> Vornicus: the problem is, I do not want to use my hardware as benchmark
11:28:44  <Celestar> and OpenGL on software is slow as f*ck
11:28:59  <Vornicus> heh
11:29:12  <Celestar> yet the current implementation is slow as well
11:29:28  <Celestar> I mean here, drawing takes 10x the CPU power of what YAPF needs
11:29:55  <Celestar> (and elrails isn't exactly helping)
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11:31:08  <peter1138> hmm
11:31:42  <Vornicus> the current implementation uses a software surface that then gets pushed to the graphics card as a whole, or some such madness.  If we could move to hardware surfaces we'd probably be better off.
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11:32:00  <peter1138> only bits are pushed
11:32:06  <peter1138> and a hardware surface is *not* better
11:32:31  <Vornicus> no?  why not?
11:33:09  <peter1138> 1) it probably won't be HW anyway, 2) we read from it
11:33:27  <peter1138> (or do we? i can't remember, heh)
11:33:41  <Vornicus> why do we read from it?
11:33:52  <peter1138> transparency
11:34:13  <Vornicus> ...
11:34:18  <Celestar> peter1138: ?
11:34:20  <Celestar> ah
11:34:30  <Vornicus> why do we need to read from the surface to implement transparency?  all hardware does that.
11:34:38  * Tobin wanders back
11:35:00  <Celestar> even SW renderers can do transparency
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11:36:02  <Sionide> ohh transparency in ottd, that'd rock..
11:36:13  <Celestar> does any have some modest hardware and wants to try to connect to my game?
11:36:16  <Tobin> Forget what I said earlier about having fewer display lists than GRF sprites. I realised as soon as I left the room that you get just as many but some rotate (or otherwise modify the modelview matrix) then call an existing display list.
11:36:29  <peter1138> Sionide: press 'x'
11:36:37  <Vornicus> Sionide: we already have transparency of a sort
11:36:54  <Sionide> peter1138, oh yeah i know that obviously, i was thinking like, transparent windows
11:36:56  <Vornicus> But it's not full-color transparency, unless you're running the 32bpp version
11:37:25  <Tobin> Alltaken: The reason for using triangles is that they are always planar.
11:37:53  <Tobin> Alltaken: OpenGL, and most other systems, act weirdly if you feed them non planar polygons.
11:38:08  <Celestar> Tobin: well yes, even tho they don't crash
11:38:32  *** tokai|3 [] has joined #openttd
11:38:53  <Tobin> Celestar: I know. OpenGL is very good a choking without actually crashing. :P
11:39:19  * Tobin imagines Direct X and others behave in much the same way
11:40:07  * Tobin wanders off to eat dinner
11:40:44  *** White_Rabbit is now known as WR-away
11:43:59  <Vornicus> aaanyway.  I figure the more graphics stuff we can fully offload onto established graphics systems the better off we'll be overall - when there's hardware we'll get it, and when there's no hardware we'll still get guaranteed-right operation that's probably faster than our current implementations.
11:44:29  <Celestar> you mean using something standardized instead of hand-brewn functions?
11:44:36  <peter1138> well
11:44:45  <Vornicus> yes
11:44:53  <peter1138> we'd have to split off the blitting routines. hmm.
11:45:01  *** WR-away is now known as White_Rabbit
11:45:08  <peter1138> because they're useful to keep the sdl/win32 drivers working
11:45:15  <peter1138> (& cocoa)
11:45:42  <Celestar>
11:46:19  *** White_Rabbit is now known as WR-away
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11:47:12  <Vornicus> I don't know how to read that.
11:47:17  <peter1138> you can't
11:47:20  <peter1138> it's skewed
11:47:27  <Celestar> skewed?
11:47:31  <peter1138> a lot of that is time spent in loading stuff
11:47:36  <peter1138> e.g. FioReadByte()
11:47:37  <Celestar> there's nothing skewed
11:48:20  <peter1138> stuff only used during loading should be discarded
11:48:21  <Darkvater> fioreadbyte only happens about once when the game is loaded
11:48:32  <Darkvater> using that as a performance criteria is screwd
11:48:35  <Darkvater> eh skewed
11:48:41  <Celestar> er WAIT
11:48:42  * Darkvater lets peter1138 do the talkin'
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11:56:14  * Celestar goes for the extreme cyse
11:56:16  <Celestar> case*
11:57:49  <Celestar> peter1138: Darkvater reload the file please
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11:58:23  <peter1138> that's better
11:58:28  <Vornicus> that's much better.
11:58:29  <Vornicus> Goodness.
11:58:35  <peter1138> your catenary's a bit slow :)
11:58:40  <Celestar> fully zoomed out game
11:58:43  <Celestar> on 1400x1050
11:58:50  <peter1138> map size?
11:58:54  <Celestar> er 1280x1024
11:58:56  <Darkvater> *slap* :)
11:59:01  <Celestar> map size is 1024x1024
11:59:10  <Celestar> 235 road vehicles, 174 trains
11:59:14  <Darkvater> is this trunk/ or bridge/?
11:59:23  <Darkvater> I think bridge because bridges are totally dynamic
11:59:25  <Celestar> Darkvater: bridge/ but what does that matter :)
11:59:27  <Darkvater> eg 6.69     37.97     4.77 10585238     0.00     0.00  GetBridgeEnd
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11:59:49  <Bjarni> hi people
11:59:51  <peter1138> Darkvater: GetBridgeEnd is called for drawing bridges either way, iirc
12:00:10  <peter1138> GetTileSlope...
12:00:23  <peter1138> that's quite convincing for storing tileh in the map...
12:01:01  <Celestar> for example ...
12:01:14  <Celestar> look where YAPF comes ..
12:01:28  <peter1138> right down there
12:01:30  <Celestar> I'm spending like 1% of the time in the pathfinder
12:01:37  <Celestar> and 60% of the time in drawing routines
12:01:40  <Darkvater> damn, that's a big toe
12:01:50  <Vornicus> yey yapf
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12:01:58  * Celestar somehow thinks that opengl would be faster :P
12:02:10  <Bjarni> you are not the first one to say that
12:02:13  <peter1138> write the driver then :)
12:02:21  <Celestar> peter1138: well I might :)
12:02:24  <Vornicus> leveraging any hardware at all would be faster.  We just plain /don't/ right now
12:02:39  <peter1138> Celestar: do you have palette animation on or off?
12:02:58  <Celestar> peter1138: off ..
12:03:04  * Celestar goes switching on an tries again
12:03:11  <Vornicus> ...this should be good.
12:04:36  <Celestar>
12:04:44  <Bjarni> .prof ?
12:04:49  <peter1138> profile
12:04:52  <Vornicus> profile
12:05:00  <Bjarni> for what app?
12:05:04  <peter1138> not much different. hmm.
12:05:07  <peter1138> openttd...
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12:05:11  <Celestar> Bjarni: text editor for your choice ..
12:05:18  <peter1138> oh, heh
12:05:18  <Bjarni> ahh, it's plain text
12:05:26  <Celestar> lol @ peter1138
12:05:40  <Celestar> peter1138: not really big a difference
12:05:49  <peter1138> no, there isn't
12:05:56  <Bjarni> <peter1138>	openttd... <--- I knew that. I'm not stupid :P
12:06:03  * Celestar notices that ViewportAddVehicles causes little CPU usage
12:06:46  * Celestar is wondering why ViewportDoDraw takes that much time
12:07:00  <peter1138> because the blitting is slow
12:07:11  <Celestar> where is the blitting doen?
12:07:15  <Celestar> done*
12:08:32  <Celestar> static void ViewportSortParentSprites(ParentSpriteToDraw* psd[]) <= this is really really ugly code
12:09:03  <peter1138> ParentSpriteToDraw *parent_list[6144];
12:09:09  <peter1138> what's that magic number?
12:09:26  <Celestar> 6*1024
12:09:32  <peter1138> ah
12:09:43  <Bjarni> I see that Darkvater is forming a political party
12:09:45  <peter1138> hmm
12:09:48  <Bjarni> he is not going to get my vote
12:09:49  <Celestar> if (mustswap) { <= WHY are we bubble-sorting?
12:10:03  <Celestar> and not just inserting the sprite at the correct position?
12:10:13  <peter1138> Celestar: what optimisation is it that you're profiling?
12:10:17  <Bjarni> Celestar: because somebody wrote it like that... to get it to work and not caring about CPU load
12:10:33  <peter1138> i don't see ViewportAddLandscape() etc
12:10:35  <Celestar> peter1138: -O
12:10:38  <Celestar> default
12:10:42  <peter1138> so i guess it's all counted under ViewportDoDraw
12:10:55  <Celestar> peter1138: seems that Sort and DrawParentSprites in inlined
12:10:58  <Celestar> is*
12:11:00  <peter1138> yeah
12:11:14  <Celestar> I'm still not getting the triple-nested loop in Sort
12:11:27  <peter1138> and an unoptimised build wouldn't be right either. hmm.
12:11:51  <Celestar> peter1138: maybe I can force-noninline it?
12:12:06  <Darkvater> you're supposed to profile with optimized code
12:12:13  <Darkvater> anything else is skewed
12:12:35  <Celestar> wait ~60 seconds
12:13:01  <peter1138> Darkvater: 18.74 seconds for ViewportDoDraw() is "unhelpful" when it actually contains several inline functions
12:13:04  <Celestar> because 90% of CPU times would be map accessors anyway without -O
12:13:16  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm un-inling viewport.c
12:14:00  <Celestar>
12:14:11  <Celestar> GREAT
12:14:18  <Darkvater> peter1138: that is true
12:14:19  <Celestar> so much for -fno-inline :S
12:14:37  <peter1138> heh
12:14:48  <Celestar> fuck
12:14:55  <Celestar> link after compile == good idea
12:15:01  <peter1138> heehee
12:15:32  <Celestar> let's hope gcc doesn't ALWAYS inline functions that are called only once
12:16:38  <Celestar>
12:16:46  <Celestar> as I suspected ...
12:17:12  <Celestar> it's not the Blitter
12:17:13  <roboman> gnight
12:17:15  <Celestar> it's the Sorter :P
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12:17:45  <Vornicus>
12:18:05  *** roboman is now known as robobed
12:18:05  <Sacro> morning?
12:18:19  <Celestar> the question is, can we hardware sort?
12:18:49  <Celestar> the if's in the loops are Very Bad (TM)
12:19:04  <Vornicus> well if we used OGL, hardware sort would come with z-buffer use
12:19:14  <Vornicus> which is essentially Who Needs Sort?
12:19:18  <Celestar> Vornicus: but that requires full 3D
12:19:24  <Vornicus> Not really
12:19:24  <Sacro> does use a CMS?
12:19:32  <Celestar> CMS being?
12:19:39  <Celestar> Vornicus: it needs some kind of z coordinate :)
12:19:43  <Celestar> apart from X and Y
12:19:44  <Sacro> content management system
12:19:45  <Vornicus> you use textured quads
12:19:53  <Celestar> Vornicus: that's a possibility
12:19:54  <Vornicus> and an orthographic camerag
12:20:12  <Celestar> Vornicus: yet it basically is 3d
12:20:19  <Vornicus> and you just use whatever we use now to sort by as the z coord.
12:20:43  <Vornicus> And yeah, it's 3d, but we're using sprites to do it
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12:23:14  <Celestar> why the hell do we have 2 sort order algorithms?
12:23:46  *** Alltaken [n=chatzill@blender/artist/allTaken] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox]"]
12:27:58  <peter1138> can you improve that?
12:28:12  <Celestar> I wish I knew what this code does ...
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12:32:21  <Celestar> I especially don't understand why we have the first part for that "if"
12:32:26  <Celestar> s/for/of
12:35:16  <Celestar> ok great
12:35:23  <Celestar> we have psd, ps, psd2, ps2, psd3
12:35:30  <Celestar> all are ParentSpriteToDraw
12:35:53  <peter1138> yum
12:36:05  <peter1138> i'm glad i didn't add any of my bridge stuff to that ;p
12:37:34  <Celestar> huh?
12:38:21  <Celestar> *parent_list[6144] <= ok that'S an array of pointers right?
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12:42:26  <Celestar> I do NOT understand ViewportDoDraw
12:43:53  <Sacro> lol
12:44:25  <Bjarni> I think the problem is that we could all say such a statement
12:44:33  <Bjarni> including the guy, who coded it
12:44:41  <Bjarni> that's why it takes so much CPU power
12:45:26  <Celestar> hey
12:45:34  <Celestar> I have improved performance by some % I think
12:45:42  <peter1138> woo
12:45:51  <Bjarni> maybe a complete rewrite is in order
12:45:52  *** mikl [n=mikl@pdpc/supporter/active/mikl] has joined #openttd
12:46:09  <Bjarni> <Celestar>	I have improved performance by some % I think <-- 0,3% is measured in % :P
12:46:17  <Sacro> of openttd?
12:46:23  * Bjarni hides
12:46:33  <Celestar> Bjarni: more ..
12:46:40  <Bjarni> I know
12:47:03  <Bjarni> did you beat my optimisation in the video drawing stuff?
12:47:15  <Bjarni> 1000% faster cocoa video driver :D
12:47:16  <Celestar> run with -D
12:47:21  <Vornicus> heh
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12:48:20  <Juustro> Hi
12:48:21  <peter1138> Celestar: doesn't it still run the sorter?
12:48:28  <peter1138> hmm, maybe not, i'unno
12:49:18  <Celestar> testing
12:49:37  <Celestar> ok
12:50:35  <Juustro> I was wondering.. what might be wrong or bugged.. I cant build any tracks.. or any vehicles cause new vehicles list is empty
12:50:39  <Celestar> peter1138: I have improved performance of the Sorter by 150%
12:50:44  <Juustro> same with ships and aircrafts
12:50:47  <peter1138> hmm
12:50:50  <Celestar> Juustro: what year
12:51:05  <Juustro> 1920
12:51:15  <Celestar> peter1138:
12:51:31  <Celestar> Juustro: well set starting date to 1950 or use a vehicle set that has vehicles in 1920 :)
12:51:39  <Celestar> peter1138: convinced?
12:51:54  <peter1138> dunno, didn't see the last one
12:52:01  <Juustro> was that so easy :o
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12:52:19  * peter1138 grabs it
12:52:26  <peter1138> hmm
12:52:27  <Celestar> from 20% to 7%
12:52:47  <Celestar> with a VERY microscopic change
12:52:58  <Celestar> I'm trying something else
12:52:58  <peter1138> that's...
12:52:59  <peter1138> good
12:53:30  <Vornicus> Juustro: for the record, the earliest train in Temperate without any newgrfs is the Kirby Paul Tank, created in 1925.
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12:54:10  <peter1138> best solution: use dbsetxl, ukrs, nars, or ... some other set
12:54:11  <Celestar> peter1138: it's not that big a change ...
12:54:33  <Vornicus> In Sub-Arctic and Tropical, the Wills 2-8-0 appears in 1945.
12:54:42  <Tobin> So tell us what the change was already. :P
12:54:52  <Celestar> will do
12:54:55  <peter1138> Celestar: you should run it for longer
12:54:58  <Juustro> Vornicus: thanks
12:54:59  <peter1138>   5.57     29.62     3.80  9366961     0.00     0.00  GetBridgeEnd
12:55:02  <peter1138>   7.36      1.91     0.39   665200     0.00     0.00  GetBridgeEnd
12:55:03  <Juustro> Celestar: thanks to you too
12:55:09  <Darkvater>  /* WTF IS THIS .... <next 10 lines> */
12:55:36  <Vornicus> Road vehicles generally begin to appear in 1935
12:55:38  <Celestar> Darkvater: ?
12:55:45  <Darkvater> the optimization ;p
12:55:47  <Celestar> peter1138: ?
12:55:59  <Celestar> Darkvater: ? ?
12:56:11  <hylje> how many wtfs does ottd have
12:56:32  <Darkvater> how did you optimize the code? I thought you commented out 10-15 lines of viewportdraw to speed it up
12:56:36  <Celestar> vici@galadriel:[/home/vici/openttd.bridge]> grep -Ri wtf * | wc -l
12:56:36  <Celestar> 24
12:56:39  <Celestar> Darkvater: no
12:56:41  <Darkvater> but if I have to explain every single step it's not funny anymore
12:57:04  <Celestar> Darkvater: peter1138:
12:57:08  <Celestar> that's the diff
12:57:32  <Darkvater> -		if (!(ps->unk16 & 1)) {
12:57:32  <Darkvater> +		if (ps->unk16 != 0) {
12:57:37  <Darkvater> that is not the same
12:57:40  <Celestar> er .
12:57:52  <Celestar> er wrong diff
12:57:56  <peter1138> lol
12:57:57  <Darkvater> but ok, look at the big picture?
12:58:13  <Celestar> Darkvater: what do you mean?
12:58:16  <Darkvater> nvm
12:58:31  <Prof_Frink> Celestar: only 17 in trunk/
12:58:42  <Celestar> Prof_Frink: lol
12:59:43  <Celestar> unfortunately, correcting that typo kills most of the optimization :P
13:00:24  <Darkvater> I am not into viewport but you cannot just exchange a set-bit-0 with a value-is-zero
13:00:41  <Darkvater> check and assignment
13:02:02  <KUDr_wrk> [13:06:26] <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: do I have any debug switches for yapf? <-- if you mean "debug_level yapf=<number>" then yes
13:02:11  <Celestar> Darkvater: no other bit is used in that variable
13:02:24  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: yeah, found it
13:02:59  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: requests: 1) put the detailed output to level 2 and leave the "per day" output on level 1. 2) explain me why I get two "per day" outputs each day
13:03:03  <Darkvater> how can you be absolutely sure about that?
13:03:12  <Darkvater> I am sure ludde would've used a bool then instead of this magic
13:03:29  <Darkvater> no, don't make it level 1
13:03:32  <Celestar> Darkvater: grep unk16 *.[ch]
13:03:49  <Darkvater> debug_level 1 < will show all yapf debugging output which you don't want
13:03:49  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: or even levels 2 and 3 for that matter
13:03:55  <Darkvater> better
13:04:57  <KUDr_wrk> explain me why I get two "per day" outputs each day <- hmm, could be road and rail? Must look.
13:05:07  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: not sure :)
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13:05:25  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: but please adjust the debug levels
13:05:46  <KUDr_wrk> yes, if i understand exactly how
13:05:58  <KUDr_wrk> what is "detailed output"
13:06:32  <Celestar> DEBUG(yapf, 1)("[YAPF][YAPF%c]%c%4d- %d us - %d rounds - %d open - %d closed - CHR %4.1f%% - c%d(sc%d, ts%d, o%d) -- ", ttc, bDestFound ? '-' : '!', veh_idx, t, m_num_steps, m_nodes.OpenCount(), m_nodes.ClosedCount(), cache_hit_ratio, cost, dist, m_perf_cost.Get(1000000), m_perf_slope_cost.Get(1000000), m_perf_ts_cost.Get(1000000), m_perf_other_cost.Get(1000000));
13:06:37  <Celestar> this :)
13:06:40  <Celestar> should be level 3
13:06:41  <KUDr_wrk> ok
13:06:52  <Celestar> DEBUG(yapf, 1)("pf time today:%5d ms\n", _total_pf_time_us / 1000);
13:06:55  <Celestar> and this level 2
13:07:27  <KUDr_wrk> and what about what was red before (path not found)
13:07:35  <KUDr_wrk> it was also in realease build
13:07:41  <Celestar> er what`
13:07:43  <KUDr_wrk> and it is something good to know
13:08:02  <Darkvater> KUDr_wrk: drop the \n at the end of DEBUG()
13:08:04  <KUDr_wrk> if train doesn't find the path to the next destination
13:08:07  <Darkvater> it is automatically appended
13:08:10  <KUDr_wrk> you should know that
13:08:26  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: that'd be level 1 methinks
13:08:50  <KUDr_wrk> ok
13:09:19  <Celestar> I generally I think we should move periodic stuff away from level 1
13:09:30  <Celestar> and things that generate LOTS of periodic output should be 3 or more
13:09:36  <Celestar> otoh
13:09:46  <KUDr_wrk> sounds good
13:09:46  <Celestar> we don'T need as many debug levels as samba has :P
13:09:56  <Darkvater> there should not be any periodic stuff in lvl1
13:10:06  <KUDr_wrk> therefore i started on 30 :)
13:10:21  <Celestar> Darkvater: the rebuild lists are on level 1
13:11:38  <Darkvater> they are? who put them there
13:12:06  <Darkvater> probably me..but that was a long time ago ;p
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13:13:29  <Celestar> Darkvater: and I think I just stayed with it on the station lists
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13:22:24  <Celestar> I love CSAs :S
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13:23:23  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
13:23:38  <Celestar> They REALLY just read out what the their input masks are saysing ..
13:23:51  * Belugas reads back about 7 hours of logs
13:23:53  <Celestar> "Surname?" -- "Julia" --- "Name?" --- "Fischer" ---- "Gender?"  --- "EXCUSE ME?"
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13:25:26  <peter1138> heh
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13:32:32  <CIA-3> miham * r5035 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt czech.txt estonian.txt finnish.txt french.txt):
13:32:32  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-30 15:32:01
13:32:32  <CIA-3> american - 44 fixed, 167 changed by WhiteRabbit (211)
13:32:32  <CIA-3> czech - 3 fixed, 1 changed by Hadez (4)
13:32:32  <CIA-3> estonian - 3 fixed by vermon (3)
13:32:33  <CIA-3> finnish - 7 changed by lauri.kajan (7)
13:32:35  <CIA-3> french - 3 fixed by glx (3)
13:32:59  <MiHaMiX> grrr
13:33:34  <Celestar> what?
13:34:20  <MiHaMiX> lots of {STRINGx}
13:34:23  <MiHaMiX> in american language
13:34:27  <MiHaMiX> I'll fix them
13:34:55  <MiHaMiX> i should've fixed it already in WT2 to not allow translators to use {STRINGx} except for english language
13:35:32  <peter1138> can't be that hard to test it ;p
13:36:16  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: no, it's a piece of cake
13:36:55  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: but now it's a really interesting issue to fix up :D
13:37:04  <MiHaMiX> peter1138: using SQL :D
13:44:57  *** Hallo [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:45:56  <MiHaMiX> ok, let's fixup :)
13:45:57  <CIA-3> miham * r5036 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt czech.txt):
13:45:57  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-05-30 15:45:43
13:45:57  <CIA-3> american - 129 changed by WhiteRabbit (129)
13:45:57  <CIA-3> czech - 3 changed by Hadez (3)
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13:46:44  <MiHaMiX> Total I18N status: 93% - 4883 bad strings out of 73164 strings
13:46:57  <MiHaMiX> 2613 strings / language
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13:53:19  <Celestar> we should clearly define debug levels
13:55:23  <Celestar> wow
13:55:38  <Celestar> dbsetxlw still has unimplemented properties?
13:57:44  <Prof_Frink> It's peter1138's fault.
13:58:02  <Prof_Frink> He's been doing things other than coding openTTD
13:58:11  <Prof_Frink> Like eating and sleeping.
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13:59:47  <peter1138> disgusting isn't it
14:00:13  <WR-away> wagon (un)loading times for any set hasn't been implemented yet..OTTD still load/unloads instantly, if there's enough cargo waiting
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14:01:48  <peter1138> yeah
14:01:53  <peter1138> haven't got around to that yet
14:03:17  <peter1138> and some AI stuff isn't implemented
14:04:42  *** paulstuffins [] has quit ["Leaving"]
14:06:49  <peter1138> i have had a look at implementing load amount, though
14:09:17  <Celestar> does that make the AI better? :P
14:10:22  <peter1138> nope
14:10:37  <peter1138> i did the one that changes priority of engines for the AI
14:10:48  <peter1138> but not the one that chooses between freight/passenger engines
14:14:12  <XeryusTC> hi all
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14:17:23  <Sacro> he XeryusTC
14:17:58  *** Tobin [] has quit []
14:20:37  <XeryusTC> heya Sacro
14:24:43  <Celestar> peter1138: I wouldn'T pay too much attention on the AI stuff for now, right?
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14:27:35  <peter1138> i wouldn't, as i never play against the AI
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14:46:18  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: ping
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15:05:03  <CIA-3> KUDr * r5037 /trunk/yapf/yapf_road.cpp: -Fix: assert when GetVehicleTrackdir() returns wrong trackdir - introduced by r5033 (thanks yanek)
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15:50:51  <peter1138> gah
15:50:53  <peter1138> X11: Unknown xsym, sym = 0x20ac
15:51:00  <peter1138> stupid thing
15:51:03  <peter1138> that's a EURO :)
15:52:55  <Bjarni> <XeryusTC>	Bjarni: ping <-- why do you do something like that when I'm away?
15:53:10  <XeryusTC> because i wasnt
15:53:23  <Bjarni> good point
15:53:59  <Bjarni> what did you want?
15:54:25  <XeryusTC> continue our conversation
15:54:29  <XeryusTC> but im going to have dinner first :P
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15:54:38  <XeryusTC> back in 20(ish)
15:54:43  <Bjarni> what conversation?
15:55:33  <Bjarni> whatever... 20 min... I will try to notice IRC at that time
15:55:39  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5038 /branch/utf8/ (fontcache.c openttd.c): [utf8] Only assign a unicode -> latin-15 mapping if the original sprite exists.
15:56:24  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5039 /branch/utf8/fontcache.h: [utf8] If there is no glyph for a unicode character, display a ?
15:57:20  <Bjarni> I see we got utf-8 progress :)
16:00:20  <peter1138> yes yes
16:01:51  <valhallasw> XeryusTC: ping
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16:26:24  <Dudu> hi
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16:39:05  <XeryusTC> valhallasw: pong
16:39:13  <Born_Acorn> Ping pong.
16:39:22  <Born_Acorn> Set Match point.
16:39:34  <XeryusTC> |.
16:39:53  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: ping again
16:40:05  * Bjarni hides
16:40:13  * Bjarni hides behind a firewall
16:40:26  * XeryusTC gets some water and throws it at the firewall
16:41:40  <Born_Acorn> Look! The firewall evaporated the water!
16:42:05  * Bjarni enters the steam era
16:42:05  <Born_Acorn> Its an oil fired Firewall. Water makes it burn more.
16:42:30  <XeryusTC> :(
16:42:32  * XeryusTC gives up
16:43:30  * Born_Acorn shoves Rudolph Diesel at XeryusTC.
16:43:38  <Born_Acorn> Use his engine to catch up with Bjarni!
16:43:52  <XeryusTC> woow!
16:44:07  * XeryusTC pwns Bjarni with his more efficient engine
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16:46:27  * Bjarni still don't know what XeryusTC originally wanted to say
16:47:21  <peter1138> he wanted to say: "i love bjarni and want to have his babies"
16:47:51  <Bjarni> well, he is Dutch after all
16:48:09  <anboni> HEY! what about the Dutch?
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16:48:56  <Bjarni> I mean, if they get a political party like the one they are forming right now, then everything goes
16:49:03  <anboni> lol
16:49:36  <anboni> of course, the media only talk about the extremes... they actually do seem to have a few interesting ideas as well
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16:54:11  <Born_Acorn> (17:49:35) <anboni> HEY! what about the Dutch? <-- They do not Live in Dutchland!
16:54:28  <anboni> hmm.. good point, i guess
16:54:55  <Born_Acorn> Which makes me very angry! What is wrong with Dutchland that everyone left for the Netherlands?
16:55:09  <Born_Acorn> The young uns these days....
16:55:27  <anboni> frankly, i couldn't tell you.. i've never been to Dutchland myself, to be honest :/
16:56:06  <anboni> blegh.. bridges branch still barfs on my savegame :(
16:56:13  *** Jenkz [] has joined #openttd
16:56:15  <Born_Acorn> People tell me it doesn't exist! Which makes me think it was so horrible everyone denies it.
16:56:32  <anboni> or so great the few who do know want you to think it doesn't exist
16:56:50  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
16:57:01  <Born_Acorn> Its MeusH!
16:57:08  <Born_Acorn> Look everyone!
16:57:09  <MeusH> hi
16:57:29  <MeusH> wee
16:57:48  <MeusH> 559 posts since last visit :O
17:02:38  <XeryusTC> <@Bjarni> I mean, if they get a political party like the one they are forming right now, then everything goes <- you mean the pedophile party?
17:03:00  <anboni> XeryusTC: that's at least what i assumed :)
17:04:11  <XeryusTC> we are weird :P
17:05:06  <MeusH> I don't like idea of pedophile party
17:05:18  <MeusH> besides, all members should be arrested for being pedophiles
17:05:22  <MeusH> which won't happen
17:05:33  <MeusH> dunno why, but it won't happen
17:06:12  <anboni> you cant get arrested for thoughts or opinions, no matter how wrong, bizarre or extreme they are
17:06:14  <MeusH> moreover, it may come to a situation that pedophiles from goverment are immune to law, then these will do gross things with children
17:06:27  <MeusH> legally
17:06:38  <MeusH> or at least, without punishement
17:07:04  <XeryusTC> MeusH: that is exactly what they want :s
17:07:05  <MeusH> however, if their party comes to existance, puny people will understand what "democracy" is
17:07:06  <anboni> i dont think politicians (here, at least) are above the law
17:07:12  <MeusH> they are
17:07:17  <MeusH> especially here
17:07:19  <MeusH> where do you live?
17:07:25  <anboni> The Netherlands
17:07:33  <MeusH> o yes, /whois :)
17:07:37  <anboni> :)
17:09:10  <XeryusTC> anyways, you need about 11000 euros to start your political party
17:09:16  <XeryusTC> and a few million more to run it
17:09:26  <XeryusTC> few million every year
17:10:17  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5040 /branch/utf8/ (string.c string.h): [utf8] Add functions to UTF-8 encode and decode a complete string
17:10:18  <XeryusTC> the big parties get subsidized by the government so they can survive, but most of the small parties will die or never be heard of
17:11:05  <anboni> actually, that's not quite true.. there's quite a few small parties that are quite persistent (CU, SGP, Partij voor de Dieren, to name a few)
17:11:34  <anboni> and remember Janmaat and his CD? they've been around for quite a while
17:12:20  <MeusH> millions? why is that (besides commercials, billboard advertisement)?
17:13:26  *** rain```` [] has quit []
17:13:56  <XeryusTC> most of the money goes to campains and some is used to keep the party running
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17:15:16  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5041 /branch/utf8/ (gui.h misc_gui.c): [utf8] Make text input handling routines use a wide character string buffer when inserting/removing characters. The input / output is still UTF-8 encoded.
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17:16:34  <Markavian`> anything interesting new in the nightly's?
17:17:30  <MeusH> YAPF
17:17:37  <Markavian`> whats that?
17:17:44  <MiHaMiX> Yet Another Path Finder
17:17:46  <Markavian`> congrats on getting past v5000 btw
17:18:11  <Markavian`> is YAPF any good? I guses theres a reason why its in there
17:18:28  <MiHaMiX> Markavian`: much faster and more reliable
17:18:53  <Markavian`> does it improve netgames then?
17:19:16  <MiHaMiX> Markavian`: significantly
17:19:26  <MiHaMiX> Markavian`: </marketing>
17:19:52  <Markavian`> and which clever person brought that into fruition then?
17:19:53  <MiHaMiX> Markavian`: but YAPF is really good :)
17:20:01  <MiHaMiX> Markavian`: KUDr
17:20:02  <MeusH> KUDr
17:20:06  <Markavian`> neato
17:20:08  <MiHaMiX> bbl:)
17:20:08  <Markavian`> anything new
17:20:15  <Markavian`> any word on that cool map gen - terragenesis?
17:20:31  <MeusH> YAPF will allow PBS and other nice stuff in the future
17:20:31  <MeusH> working
17:20:35  <MeusH> IIRC it's planned to be in 0.5.0 or 0.6.0
17:20:35  *** Dudu [n=none@] has quit []
17:20:39  <MeusH> let me check
17:20:39  * Markavian` pauses to dream about PBS in the main trunk
17:21:07  <MeusH> 0.5.0
17:21:28  <Markavian`> ok
17:21:50  <MeusH> more hot details :P
17:21:50  <MeusH>
17:22:00  <MeusH> However, don't look at roadmaps too often
17:22:16  <MeusH> otherwise you'll be sick of it and new features will be like drugs
17:22:20  <MeusH> you will get addicted
17:22:29  <Markavian`> what about NewGFx support - is there going to be any 'internal' switches / profiles as apposed to modifying the .cfg file?
17:22:32  <MeusH> you will ask about PBS triple a day
17:22:43  <MeusH> it's also planned IIRC
17:22:44  <Markavian`> lol, ok, I won't ; )
17:22:46  <MeusH> by peter1138
17:22:55  <anboni> wow, is PBS actually an active branch already?
17:23:03  <MeusH> NewGRF settings in savegame |	 peter1138
17:23:12  <MeusH> seems not, anboni
17:23:18  <Markavian`> the mini-IN have it as a patch
17:23:48  <XeryusTC> the pbs patch is very outdated
17:24:00  <anboni> ah nm, that PBS branch that's listed is probably from back before KUDr decided he needed Yapf first :)
17:24:32  <glx> Markavian`: and the PBS in mini-IN is very broken
17:25:02  <Markavian`> yeah, shame that
17:26:45  <anboni> does it look like bridges will be included in the trunk anytime soon?
17:26:52  <Markavian`> suggestion: auto transfer for NewGFx files from server if client doesn't have correct graphics?
17:28:40  <MeusH> roadmap <yes>
17:29:36  <Markavian`> anyone tried a 2048x128 map before?
17:29:46  <WR-away> haha
17:29:49  *** WR-away is now known as White_Rabbit
17:30:45  <Markavian`> I think I'm gonna play this, Tropical / 2048x128, its like a string of islands in some places
17:31:14  <Markavian`> there seems to be a 256x128 gap in the middle with nothing but trees in it though
17:32:23  <White_Rabbit> any new grfs?
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17:34:16  <peter1138> newgrf settings: profiles, yes
17:34:21  <peter1138> auto transfer, no
17:36:18  <anboni> where do different savegame revisions get determined? is that all in saveload.c, or do other parts of the game influence those too?
17:36:30  <peter1138> all over the place
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17:37:02  <anboni> so saveload.c is basically only the part where the structs from memory get written to file?
17:37:09  <glx> no
17:37:30  <peter1138> if only :)
17:37:38  <Sacro> afternoon all
17:37:59  <XeryusTC> Bjarni: i just took a look, we were talking about SVN and how to get revision numbers up fast
17:38:38  <anboni> i'm trying to figure out a way to get my yapf/trunk savegame loaded into bridge branch.. no luck so far.. asserts on me :(
17:39:33  <Bjarni> hmm
17:39:41  <hylje> :<
17:39:42  <Bjarni> that was yesterday
17:39:52  <Bjarni> I'm way past that now
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17:40:47  <White_Rabbit> does OTTD support custom newgrf running costs? the US Set is supposed to have steam trains that have running costs per year almost equivalent to their purchase prices, but that's not the case with OTTD
17:41:28  <XeryusTC> White_Rabbit: maybe you need to change it in the difficulty settings too
17:41:55  <White_Rabbit> I did..the difference between low and high is a couple hundred dollars
17:42:35  <White_Rabbit> besides, the US Set does not support changing purchase/running costs, IIRC
17:43:28  <White_Rabbit> I'll check again
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17:45:53  <White_Rabbit> it may be something to do with the US set itself, actually, since the UKRS has no such problems
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17:48:05  <Sacro> i dont think OpenTTD supports it yet
17:48:20  <White_Rabbit> oh well
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17:49:14  <peter1138> it does
17:49:35  <peter1138> no doubt there's some strange quirky bit of ttdp that isn't emulated exactly
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17:52:49  <White_Rabbit> now TTDP trains cost 13 times as much to run as in OTTD..and I wasn't going bankrupt in TTDP
17:53:19  <peter1138> hmm
17:53:25  <peter1138> inflation? :P
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17:56:02  <White_Rabbit> no, I was comparing the starting costs (1921)
17:57:15  <Markavian`> I always have inflation off
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18:12:48  <White_Rabbit> hm, I've noticed that with US English on, 'Electrified railroad construction' is too wide to fit into the selection window under the 'Build railroad' button
18:14:08  <peter1138> it's too wide whatever
18:14:50  <White_Rabbit> a lot of languages' words are too wide
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18:16:47  <White_Rabbit>'s too wide for English too
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18:17:27  <hylje> finnish is notorious for outrageously long words
18:18:41  <White_Rabbit> funny, Finnish words fit perfectly
18:19:08  <hylje> not everywhere
18:19:24  <White_Rabbit> the label for coal on the cargo payments graph is missing too..there's just a black rectangle
18:19:45  <White_Rabbit> wait, coal has a grey rectangle
18:21:19  <White_Rabbit> the black one doesn't represent anything
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18:24:04  <White_Rabbit> heh, the replace vehicles window for Finnish is a mess
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18:32:49  <KUDr> hmm, no server running 5037
18:33:20  <Sacro> nightly?
18:33:24  <KUDr> yes
18:33:37  <Sacro> ask Brianetta
18:33:40  <KUDr> Brianetta's is 5017
18:33:47  <Sacro> he aint online yet
18:33:56  <KUDr> yes
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18:34:26  <Belugas> KUDr, wanted to ask you : the project/solution used for MSVC2005 is openttd_vs.sln, right?
18:34:30  <Belugas> Hello, by the way :)
18:34:45  <KUDr> openttd_vs80.sln
18:34:48  <Zr40> White_Rabbit: that black rectangle has been there since the original TTD
18:34:59  <KUDr> hello :)
18:35:05  <Belugas> that's waht I wanted to say :)  80 got stuck in keyboard
18:35:08  <CIA-3> richk * r5042 /branch/MiniIN/ (11 files in 3 dirs): [MiniIN]: Sync with trunk.
18:35:14  <KUDr> ok
18:35:18  <Belugas> thanks
18:36:49  <Noldo> are syncs with trunk similar to all branches?
18:38:25  <RichK67> heya KUDr: Pile Transport is great on YAPF :)
18:38:45  <KUDr> yes i know :)
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18:38:54  <KUDr> still playable
18:39:06  <RichK67> i use it as my MiniIN+YAPF test :)
18:39:21  <KUDr> wondering if we can try something like that wilt last nightly
18:39:45  <KUDr> big coop game
18:39:56  <KUDr> or big multiplayer
18:40:06  <Sacro> we need more than 8 companies
18:40:08  <Noldo> what is MiniIN ?
18:40:13  <KUDr> but i don't have a good line for that
18:40:19  <RichK67> MiniIN still in dev - not added most patches yet, but airports, TGP, snow in temp, all in so far :)
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18:40:50  <MeusH> developer's mailbox got spammed again
18:40:50  <RichK67> MiniIN is the Mini Integrated Nightly - takes a lot of popular patches, and combines them with the latest nightly
18:41:39  <KUDr> RichK67: what is the satus of TGP? Will it go to trunk? It works very well i guess and i like it. Would be great to have it in trunk
18:41:49  <Noldo> ah
18:41:53  <MiHaMiX> <--- LOL
18:42:22  <RichK67> it has some problems with small maps - i may resurrect the old TerraGenesis for maps <128 square
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18:43:03  <KUDr> what it does wrong with small maps?
18:43:15  <RichK67> TGP also needs an improved GUI - i need to add all the useful options to it: date, no. of towns, no. of industry, etc.
18:43:28  <RichK67> bombs - 64x64 can often be an ocean
18:43:52  <KUDr> aha
18:43:52  <RichK67> so it cant then place a town
18:43:52  <RichK67> kaboom
18:44:00  <KUDr> then we should develop some sea industry
18:44:04  <KUDr> and cities
18:44:10  <KUDr> and would be usefull
18:44:15  <anboni> OpenTTD: Atlantis :)
18:44:17  <RichK67> lol - the Waterworld patch ;)
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18:44:31  <KUDr> yes! great idea anboni!
18:44:33  <RichK67> costs millions, and no-one uses it ;)
18:44:49  <UnderBuilder> what idea?
18:44:57  <anboni> (should rename OpenTTD to OpenTTD: SG-1, to stay in line :) )
18:44:58  <KUDr> OTTD Atlantis
18:44:59  <RichK67> Atlantis
18:45:13  <KUDr> yes
18:45:17  <Rubidium> RichK67: I've got 2 issues with your MiniIN branch; it throws a compile warning in tree_cmd.c:300 (signed-unsigned comparison) and CheckIfCanLevelIndustryPlatform might try to level land outside of the map
18:45:26  <Rubidium> both should be fixed by:
18:45:49  <UnderBuilder> with new map array, the maps will be smaller?
18:45:51  <RichK67> cool - thanks for the fix - i knew about the signed/unsigned - was going to fix
18:46:29  <anboni> so, would it somehow be possible to build some kind of "universal" savegame convertor? to help fix savegames that broke between different branches or builds?:)
18:46:30  <RichK67> didnt know about CheckIfCan.... but yes, it makes sense - i dont remember protecting it
18:47:16  <Rubidium> I guess the CheckIfCanLevelIndustryPlatform might be a cause of those 'tile < MapSize()' assertions
18:47:56  <RichK67> possibly - of some of them ;)
18:48:10  <RichK67> biggest culprit is the bridge highlight patch
18:48:28  <KUDr> anboni: if you mean trunk vs. bridge then it is known problem now - both are the same revision, but different data
18:48:42  <ln-> anboni: anything's possible, but who would have the time and interest to maintain such a tool?
18:48:52  <UnderBuilder> with new map array, the maps will be smaller?
18:48:58  <KUDr> no
18:49:06  <anboni> KUDr: is there an easy fix for that?
18:49:27  <KUDr> anboni - tell celestar to increase revision
18:49:35  <KUDr> then it should load the normal one
18:49:53  <anboni> ln-: true, good point i guess, unless it would somehow be possible to make it use parts of existing source :)
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18:50:19  <CIA-3> richk * r5043 /branch/MiniIN/industry_cmd.c: [MiniIN]: -Fix: Prevent CheckIfCanLevelPlatform from attempting to level if too close to edge. Many thanks to Rubidium for fix.
18:51:16  <UnderBuilder> with new map array, the maps will be smaller?
18:52:28  <CIA-3> richk * r5044 /branch/MiniIN/tree_cmd.c: [MiniIN]: [SnowInTemp]: -Fix: Clears signed vs unsigned comparison warning.
18:54:10  <White_Rabbit>
18:54:14  <UnderBuilder> some1 wants to response me?
18:54:22  <White_Rabbit> oops
18:54:30  <anboni> some1 already did
18:54:38  <anboni> KUDr no
18:54:50  <Noldo> UnderBuilder: smaller in what way?
18:55:01  <UnderBuilder> in file size
18:55:15  <White_Rabbit> L
18:55:15  <Noldo> propably not
18:55:17  <Belugas> I have been thinkig  of waht wold be required to have a sea-based town system
18:55:19  <KUDr> <anboni> KUDr no ?
18:55:27  <Belugas> That would be quite a challenge
18:55:42  <White_Rabbit> it would kill us with ship-based lag D:
18:55:42  <anboni> my guess is, if anything, saves will be bigger because it will be possible to store more info per tile
18:56:05  <anboni> KUDr: was a copy/paste for underbuilder :)
18:56:43  <Rubidium> RichK67: interested in a (working) past2090 patch for the MiniIn?
18:57:08  <RichK67> does it update all the MiniIN dates?
18:57:15  <RichK67> (yes, btw)
18:57:17  <UnderBuilder> so the maps will be of the same size, or bigger? (I don't think that it can get bigger)
18:57:19  <Rubidium> as far as I'm aware of
18:57:32  <RichK67> link, or PM?
18:57:39  <Rubidium>
18:57:53  <Rubidium> only issue might be a #define PAST2090REV
18:57:55  <KUDr> UnderBuilder: new map should be more flexible - if new data needed or some changes are needed
18:58:10  <Rubidium> which I created to ease updating after revision changes :)
18:59:31  <peter1138> heh
18:59:32  <RichK67> looks OK - but i'll need a longer look to check it out better :)  thanks
19:00:01  <RichK67> Rubidium: btw - apols, forgot to credit you for the second fix
19:00:05  <Rubidium> btw, some credits should also go to peter1138 for that past2090 patch :) <- I've just updated it
19:00:20  <Rubidium> next time I should commit them myself :)
19:01:10  <peter1138> one of my earlier oapatches, that
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19:15:06  <RichK67> bbl
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19:30:09  <White_Rabbit> don't worry, richk should come back within 9 minutes...
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19:40:23  <White_Rabbit> Zeryus, are these Class 91s you're using here?
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19:45:54  <XeryusTC> White_Rabbit: 1. it's Xeryus (or XeryusTC) 2. it is the eurostar
19:46:12  <XeryusTC> aka, the asiastar in normal OTTD
19:47:09  <White_Rabbit> sorry, the Z is close to the X
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19:48:08  <XeryusTC> use tab, you'll see that it doesn't work then
19:48:23  <anboni> XeryusTC, hey, that's a nice feature :)
19:48:34  * anboni didn't know about auto-completion in irc :)
19:48:38  <XeryusTC> rofl
19:48:53  <hylje> now you do !
19:49:12  <anboni> hey, i dont hang out in irc channels that often :)
19:49:33  <White_Rabbit> I can't believe you corrected your own username before answering my question ;(
19:50:53  <anboni> hmpf.. thought choice.. should i go play my big game in a trunk compile, or wait for the bridge compile to learn how to load a trunk game (and maybe play a new bridge game meanwhile)?
19:54:35  <Sacro> bridge branch?
19:54:39  <peter1138> hmm
19:54:53  <peter1138> should i apply the code that restricts station preview graphics to the little boxes?
19:56:12  <anboni> peter1138, what preview graphics and which little boxes? :)
19:56:22  <White_Rabbit> I only know of the Harbour set that has graphics sticking out
19:56:32  <peter1138> White_Rabbit: industrial does too... a lot
19:56:52  <White_Rabbit> I think it's a coding issue, since all other station sets with big buildings have their pictures within the boxes (or maybe they used edited sprites)
19:57:59  <White_Rabbit> so you might as well apply it because it's supposed to be that way ;p
19:58:25  <peter1138> White_Rabbit: the other station sets have special preview window sprites
19:58:59  *** RichK67|away is now known as RichK67
19:59:18  <RichK67> back - and a dull first half was had by all ... :)
20:03:34  <XeryusTC> White_Rabbit: i think that my name is more important than your question :P
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20:13:06  <anboni> ok, so 2048x2048 maps are positively, absolutely, frigging huge
20:13:14  <Sacro> anboni: yup
20:14:01  <anboni> wonder if it'll bring my pc to its knees when i start filling it up with trains :)
20:14:42  <anboni> hmm.. different question.. who or what will give up first.. my pc or me :)
20:15:54  <RichK67> blink - and two goals come along all at once!
20:16:04  <RichK67> Eng 2, Hun 0
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20:19:49  <RichK67> wow! hun 1
20:20:06  <XeryusTC> anboni: try to generate a 2048x2048 game with TGP :P
20:20:43  <RichK67> the map is done in ~35 secs on my machine, then it takes another 3 mins to add the towns etc :)
20:21:22  <anboni> hehe
20:21:57  <RichK67> dammit - england match is interrupting my OTTD dev work ;)
20:22:28  <anboni> so i should checkout a MiniIN, generate the map, then save and load in bridges branch, i suppose?
20:23:07  <anboni> bah, get your priorities straight :)
20:24:59  <MeusH> hey RichK67
20:25:02  <RichK67> you can try, but i wouldnt guarantee it would work - certainly later on the extra patch settings will stop it loading in anything else. at the moment it should be ok, and may be worth having as a map-generator version
20:25:06  <RichK67> hi MeusH
20:25:53  <anboni> RichK67, yeah, that's what i was thinking.. let's see what TGP comes up with:)
20:26:08  <RichK67> what settings?
20:26:37  <anboni> and OMGWOW, bridges is shaweet! build bridges over multi-level ravines
20:26:40  <RichK67> i would suggest "hilly, low water, smooth"... very playable
20:26:48  <anboni> dunno yet, it just finished compiling, starting now:)
20:27:05  <RichK67> try it in temperate - snow :)
20:28:27  <anboni> where's the options hidden exactly? or does it just use the standaard difficulty settings?
20:28:35  <RichK67> btw - on 2048x2048, have LOW towns, and normal industry - otherwise it looks like a plague has hit!
20:28:41  <hylje> :o
20:28:59  <RichK67> start a new game - its a new dialog on "Create a Random Map"
20:29:00  <White_Rabbit> RichK, have you seen this? second last post:
20:29:17  <anboni> ah, schweet
20:30:21  <anboni> at least it makes good use of my cpu for this brief moment.. 102% :)
20:30:23  <RichK67> White_Rabbit - that is the old MiniIN. the new one is 5042
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20:31:14  <RichK67> not that its a full Mini IN yet :)
20:32:04  <White_Rabbit> is it available for download though? :o
20:32:28  <anboni> White_Rabbit, there's a MiniIN branch off of svn :)
20:32:37  <RichK67> well its only got TGP, snow in temperate, YAPF, and new airports
20:32:59  <RichK67> svn://
20:33:09  <KUDr> RichK67: and does it work?
20:33:18  <XeryusTC> RichK67: YAPF is in trunk so that doesn't count :P
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20:33:51  <RichK67> merging it in correctly was ...errr... tricky ;)
20:33:56  <RichK67> it counts :)
20:34:27  <KUDr> RichK67: checking out...
20:34:27  <RichK67> KUDr - oh yeah, YAPF and MiniIN is nice - but since there is no PBS, does it count?
20:34:45  <KUDr> yes
20:34:47  <anboni> so would it be possible to include the towns/industries settings in the generate dialog as well? (not sure who i should send this suggestion to actually though :) )
20:34:57  <KUDr> PBS will be late the new one
20:34:59  <peter1138> woohoo
20:35:06  <peter1138> smooth horizontal depot scrolling :D
20:35:08  <RichK67> yeah, i will be adding those options to TGP sometime soon
20:35:12  <KUDr> you can do impossible, but don't try miracles
20:35:56  <RichK67> anboni: TGP is one of my patches, so any suggestions are good
20:36:10  <anboni> RichK67, well, there you go :)
20:36:17  <KUDr> TGP is VERY NICE
20:36:26  <RichK67> ty :)
20:36:29  <KUDr> it generates much better maps
20:36:39  <MeusH> peter1138: (yet) idea or (already) a feature?
20:36:43  <anboni> bummer though, a save from MiniIN makes the bridges build bart with an assert :(
20:37:11  <anboni> ugh.. want to buy typing lessons
20:37:15  <anboni> let's try that again
20:37:22  <anboni> bummer though, a save from MiniIN makes the bridges build barf with an assert :(
20:37:24  <XeryusTC> <KUDr> TGP is VERY NICE <- agreed
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20:37:51  <RichK67> TGP is a new version in MiniIN - its got a larger seed, and creates more random maps (old one tended to place a valley down the leading diagonal)
20:38:23  <RichK67> anboni - what is the assert? tile < mapsize?
20:38:40  <anboni> nope
20:38:40  <anboni> openttd: saveload.c:88: SlReadFill: Assertion `len != 0' failed.
20:38:40  <anboni> Aborted
20:38:57  <anboni> probably related to the same savegame revision problem that KUDr mentioned between trunk and bridge
20:39:15  <RichK67> hmm... may not be my fault that one ;)
20:39:24  <anboni> probably not :)
20:39:27  <anboni> Celestar, ping?
20:39:41  <peter1138> MeusH:
20:39:56  <hylje> nice
20:40:40  <RichK67> peter1138: i was playing with a recent nightly & ukrs. the 2-6-4 tank has gone back to black again :(
20:41:04  <peter1138> RichK67: it's blue with passengers and black with freight
20:41:29  <Bjarni> who is making the miniIN?
20:41:35  <peter1138> same with the standard 5
20:42:01  <peter1138> RichK67: it being always blue was actually a bug ;)
20:42:23  <RichK67> hi Bjarni - MiniIN thats me :)
20:42:41  <RichK67> ah - ok peter, didnt realise - yes, its a freight one
20:43:01  <peter1138> yup, supposed to be black :)
20:43:21  <peter1138> (freight doesn't need shiny expensive paint jobs, does it?)
20:43:25  <RichK67> yeah, i suppose my Hornby Dublo engine of it was black ;)
20:44:02  <Bjarni> RichK67: do you publish binaries of the miniIN somewhere?
20:44:29  <RichK67> i have a page ready, but its not been OKd for upload to the OTTD site yet
20:44:49  <RichK67> i need to get TL to add the MiniIN branch to the nightly build sequence
20:44:59  <TL|Away> RichK67: will never happen, we talked about that ;)
20:45:03  <TL|Away> Once in a week at most
20:45:04  <Bjarni> I got a PM from a guy, who said the OSX build is broken. It's because it's a dynamic build when it should be static
20:45:14  <anboni> hmm.. this might be an interesting thought for a new look at the game... have 7AI owned companies go to town on a 2048x2048 map for a few hours at fastforward, then buy all those companies and restructure the networks :)
20:45:43  <KUDr> tgp.c
20:45:43  <KUDr> n:\Dev\VS71\Vc7\include\math.h(182) : error C2373: 'myabs' : redefinition; different type modifiers
20:45:43  <KUDr>         p:\Proj\SVN\OpenTTD\IN\cur\macros.h(145) : see declaration of 'myabs'
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20:47:56  <KUDr> solved
20:48:20  <RichK67> hmm - myabs not defined in my patches
20:48:25  <KUDr> #include <math.h>
20:48:33  <RichK67> its just in math.h
20:48:33  <KUDr> in tgp.c
20:49:10  <KUDr> yes, should be immediatelly after #include "stdafx.h"
20:49:16  <KUDr> then it works
20:49:52  <RichK67> beauty 3-1
20:49:55  <KUDr> M$ defines their own abs, that is redefined in macros.h
20:50:08  <RichK67> ok - ill change that
20:54:00  <RichK67> does moving <math.h> to just after stdafx.h work properly for you?? checked??
20:54:12  <KUDr> yes
20:54:16  <KUDr> work fine now
20:54:18  <RichK67> ok ill commit
20:54:22  <KUDr> ok
20:54:50  <KUDr> what compiler do you use?
20:55:45  <RichK67> mingw
20:56:10  <CIA-3> richk * r5045 /branch/MiniIN/tgp.c: [MiniIN]: [TGP]: Moved #include <math.h> to just after stdafx.h to resolve MSVC compile error. Thanks to KUDr for bug & fix.
20:56:52  <TL|Away> KUDr: stop making bugs in miniIN :p
20:57:07  <KUDr> sorry, will not do that again
20:57:31  <TL|Away> good boy :p
20:57:52  <KUDr> thanks
20:58:27  <TL|Away> yw
20:58:43  <RichK67> is auto-clean zero in trunk?
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20:59:31  <peter1138> bah, i hate this depot code
20:59:31  <RichK67> full time: Eng 3 - Hungary 1
21:00:10  <White_Rabbit> gg
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21:09:07  <peter1138> haha
21:09:22  <peter1138> i love it when a fix for a problem is actually simpler than the original code
21:11:52  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: what, when the fix is four characters - /* and */ ?
21:14:31  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: thats a good fix
21:15:11  <peter1138> Prof_Frink: there was a "skip" loop and a "find" loop...
21:15:35  <peter1138> add one value to another and it's easier and works better, and only uses one loop
21:15:48  <peter1138> ok, should i commit this smooth depot scrolling?
21:19:57  <RichK67> hmm - typo in newgrf_engine.c    return AMS_TTDP_HELI_LAND_AIRPOPT;
21:19:57  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5046 /trunk/train_gui.c:
21:19:57  <CIA-3> - Implement smooth horizontal depot scrolling by setting up a clipping area to
21:19:57  <CIA-3> draw the train image. This fixes a couple of usability issues when shorter
21:19:57  <CIA-3> wagons are used in the depot; shorter wagons scrolled at a different speed, and
21:19:57  <CIA-3> not all wagons were visible sometimes.
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21:20:21  <peter1138> RichK67: lol
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21:20:38  <RichK67> :)
21:20:46  <Bjarni> nice greeting
21:20:57  <RichK67> yw
21:20:59  <peter1138> there, have fun with train depots :D
21:21:04  <peter1138> (and train lists, in fact)
21:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> would it be possible to make lines in the depot select/unselectable?
21:21:24  <peter1138> it rocks now
21:21:36  <KUDr> good
21:21:40  <Eddi|zuHause> would make it easier to create train specific features (like manual upgrade, or refit from depot window)
21:23:03  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5047 /trunk/newgrf_engine.c: - NewGRF: fix typo of AIRPORT in enum
21:23:13  <peter1138> RichK67: sorry, forgot to credit :(
21:24:12  <RichK67> lol - thats ok :)    credit mart3p - he sent me a MiniIN-specific mod that added a line above it.. so it was easy to spot (and chuckle)
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21:24:54  <anboni> RichK67, would it be very involved to graft the MiniIN-TGP onto the bridges branch? (not asking you or celes do it, but i might give it a go :) )
21:25:12  <peter1138> RichK67: i can't remember if i cut and pasted that from him or not :/
21:25:21  <peter1138> i suspect i was having one of my 'moments'
21:26:23  <peter1138> Celestar: bridge! merge!
21:26:39  <peter1138> anboni: bridges is, afaik, very near merging, so i'd wait for that
21:26:47  <peter1138> (and then let richk do the hard work ;))
21:27:01  <anboni> hehe
21:27:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't suppose TGP and bridge conflict very much...
21:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a extra TGP patch, which you could try to apply
21:27:54  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5048 /trunk/rail_gui.c: - NewStations: Set up clipping areas to draw the station preview graphics in. This prevents larger station graphics from overflowing onto the list.
21:28:02  <anboni> Eddi|zuHause, guess i'll look into that, thanks:)
21:28:14  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik, brianetta used it in his nightly server
21:29:01  <RichK67> hi eddi - i havent posted the latest TGP as I want to wait until ive updated the GUI
21:29:47  <RichK67> and maybe solved the 64x64 problems
21:30:03  <peter1138> can you crop it?
21:30:51  <RichK67> problem is that when it generates a 64x64 its often just ocean (as that part of the map would be on a larger map)
21:31:00  <peter1138> hmm
21:31:08  <peter1138> so cropping is no good at all
21:31:12  <RichK67> needs a different method for small maps - i may re-use TerraGenesis
21:31:49  <RichK67> in a sense, its already a crop - try generating the same seed with increasing map sizes - you will see the map not change in the overlapping areas
21:32:09  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe just raise terrain levels?
21:32:26  <peter1138> so
21:32:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (if water > x%)
21:32:35  <peter1138> if anyone experiences depot issues, let me know
21:32:38  <Eddi|zuHause> where x is dependent on water setting
21:32:40  * peter1138 > sleep
21:33:12  <Bjarni> goodnight
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21:33:15  <anboni> night
21:33:23  <RichK67> eddi: it  not so simple - you would have to analyse the map to see if it was good/bad
21:33:58  <RichK67> although for small maps, that is less a problem
21:34:01  <Eddi|zuHause> [30.05. 23:35] <Eddi|zuHause> (if water > x%) <- that should not be hard to check on a small map
21:34:24  <Eddi|zuHause> and for larger maps, you leave out the check, as it is obviously unnecessary
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21:35:24  <RichK67> yeah, something like that could work; if it fails the test, it adds 512, 512 to the x,y offset and queries the map again (peter's cropping in effect)
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21:37:30  <CIA-3> egladil * r5049 /branch/32bpp/ (68 files in 5 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4800:4900 from trunk.
21:38:21  <Eddi|zuHause> if your endless map is acutally endless enough to try that multiple times, that might work, too ;)
21:39:27  <RichK67> yup, it is an infinite series
21:39:48  <RichK67> i could literally use one seed, but have a random offset into the Perlin-space
21:41:35  <Eddi|zuHause> well... i have less concern about the theoretical infinitness of your generation formula, but more about the actual finiteness of your address space (i assume int) ;)
21:42:12  <anboni> looks like the TGP patch against 4600 applies without too much trouble against 5048
21:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause> have fun with it, anboni ;)
21:42:32  <RichK67> noooooooooo - horrid old patch
21:42:48  <anboni> oh, is there a new one? i just picked the one from your opening post :)
21:43:41  <RichK67> wait for it - brb
21:44:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i assume 4600 was before your holiday ;)
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21:45:24  <RichK67> there you go - TGP @ 5048
21:45:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm now gonna watch last saturday's enterprise episode, that my brother was incompetent enough to not record...
21:45:45  <RichK67> enjoy
21:46:02  <Eddi|zuHause> despite of comprehendable and simple orders ;)
21:46:06  <anboni> RichK67, you da bomb :)
21:46:06  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: next time program your recorder
21:46:30  <Eddi|zuHause> well... i programmed the recorder, but i cannot program the satellite reciever to switch channels
21:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> s/saturday/sunday
21:47:30  <RichK67> anyone know about Planeset1.2?
21:47:54  <RichK67> which version now works? the OTTD-specific one, or the main Patch Windows one?
21:48:10  <Eddi|zuHause> that has been mostly added to trunk, i thought
21:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so the patch one should load properly
21:48:28  <XeryusTC> RichK67: with the patch it works with the patch's one
21:48:33  <RichK67> yeah, but there is a MiniIN-specific patch for it (by mart3p)
21:48:45  <RichK67> okies - ill use the patch one, ty
21:48:46  <XeryusTC> there is a liveries patch that goes with it too
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21:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe mart3p said that he reduced the mini-in specific patch to only contain the parts that have not been added to trunk... it was mostly rotor sprites or something
21:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing that would prevent the planeset from working
21:49:55  <RichK67> yup - he emailed me
21:50:08  <RichK67> i was using wrong version!
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21:53:27  <RichK67> man that osprey is cool :)
21:55:20  <CIA-3> richk * r5050 /branch/MiniIN/newgrf_engine.c: [MiniIN]: [Planeset1.2]: Specific patch for New Airport support in MiniIN. Thanks to Mart3p for sending patch.
21:56:52  <Sacro> whoo 5050
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22:16:18  <CIA-3> egladil * r5051 /branch/32bpp/ (143 files in 12 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r4900:5000 from trunk.
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22:16:56  <glx> egladil: you're near the end of sync work :)
22:17:04  <egladil> yeah :)
22:17:58  <egladil> took a lot less time than i thought it would
22:18:44  <RichK67> glx: can you explain to me what "savegame bumping" is all about?? i know i change the revision number, but how does it know how to load the (now) old version??
22:19:26  <glx> RichK67: what was your old savegame version?
22:19:34  <RichK67> how=what method, rather than "why it should"
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22:20:34  <RichK67> dunno - cant remember where its set?
22:20:45  <glx> I think the problem is trunk changed savegame version, so your old samegames may have the same version as the trunk
22:21:23  <RichK67> saveload.c = 28
22:21:38  <RichK67> const uint16 SAVEGAME_VERSION = 28;
22:21:43  <glx> that's the current trunk value
22:22:07  <glx> I guess it was your value too
22:22:16  <RichK67> so if i increase it to 29, but add nothing else, will it load current trunk games?
22:22:23  <glx> yes
22:22:42  <glx> but it will fail to load old "patched" savegame
22:22:44  <anboni> but wouldn't that make MiniIN saves incompatible with trunk?
22:23:11  <RichK67> they always would be - trunk cannot load MiniIN, but MiniIN should be able to load trunk
22:23:20  <anboni> hmm.. good point
22:23:34  <glx> anboni: a change in SAVEGAME_VERSION implies many changes in loading code
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22:24:45  <glx> RichK67: btw old MiniIN saves won't be loadable in current MiniIN
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22:26:40  <glx> and don't forget to update save/load arrays to your SAVEGAME_VERSION
22:26:44  <Bjarni> Vornicus, RichK67: there is a problem with the OSX build of miniIN
22:27:06  <Bjarni> it is compiled dynamically, so people can't use it since it links to Vornicus' HD
22:27:26  <RichK67> yup, that worked :)
22:27:30  <glx> Bjarni: like your first openttd release for OSX?
22:27:36  <Bjarni> yeah
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22:27:51  <Bjarni> it looks like Vornicus ignored the warning I added to avoid this
22:28:03  <RichK67> glx: yup - MiniIN is take-it or leave-it; new version wont have PBS, but will have YAPF
22:28:22  <Sacro> lol
22:28:37  <RichK67> glx: "don't forget to update save/load arrays to your SAVEGAME_VERSION"   OK - now you lost me ;)
22:29:05  <glx> RichK67: you know that many patches settings are saved, right?
22:29:16  <RichK67> Bjarni: that MiniIN is now over 500 old
22:29:37  <RichK67> glx: yup, and that causes the SlGetOffs asserts
22:30:24  <Darkvater> peter1138: !
22:30:45  <RichK67> [22:32] * peter1138 > sleep
22:30:56  <Darkvater> that bitch
22:31:10  <glx> RichK67: is there saved settings in current MiniIN?
22:31:10  <RichK67> lol
22:31:24  * Darkvater sends the following to peter1138's away-log: OMG r0x0rz that smooth-scrolling just rocks
22:31:42  <glx> that will make him happy :P
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22:32:07  <RichK67> glx: yes - smooth economy "prod-changes"
22:32:09  <Darkvater> < sleep :)
22:32:47  <KUDr> good night master
22:32:48  <RichK67> (its not committed yet)
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22:32:59  <RichK67> :)
22:33:47  <glx> ok, so there's somewhere in it an array with SLE_*, ... , a version, MAX_VERSION
22:33:55  <glx> or something like that
22:34:06  <Bjarni> <RichK67>	Bjarni: that MiniIN is now over 500 old <-- I didn't notice it and I got a bug report on it today
22:34:08  <RichK67>       SDT_VAR(Patches, prod_changes,        SLE_UINT8, 0, 0,         1,   1,   10, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_PROD_CHANGES,        NULL),
22:34:23  <glx> not this one :)
22:34:39  <glx> that's the patch window :)
22:34:50  <glx> *patches
22:35:12  <RichK67> (this is why i need some help - im lost around the Saveload features)
22:35:15  <RichK67> :)
22:35:35  <glx> look for Patches in your source
22:36:03  <glx> you will find lines with SLE_*
22:37:13  <RichK67> which file? its all over in settings.c
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22:41:06  <glx> hmm how are saved yapf settings
22:41:36  <glx> the yapf lines in _patch_settings are not like others
22:42:08  <RichK67> "28"????
22:42:22  <RichK67> 16+8+4
22:42:46  <glx> no it's the savegame version I think
22:43:24  <CIA-3> egladil * r5052 /branch/32bpp/ (40 files in 5 dirs): [32bpp] -Sync r5000:5051 from trunk.
22:43:32  <egladil> finally
22:43:36  <RichK67> yup - you're right
22:43:41  <MeusH> cya
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22:44:57  <Eddi|zuHause> so you have absolutely no intention of updating PBS?
22:45:17  <Hackykid> hmm
22:45:26  <Sacro> ooh its a Hackykid
22:45:27  <RichK67> eddi: no, but as its a full branch, someone else can patch it in and send the patch
22:45:55  <Sacro> well i think theres gonna be a whole new signalling branch against YAPF
22:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause> if i only could code ;)
22:46:05  <Hackykid> i think current pbs branch isnt really an a playable state :-p not sure though
22:46:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe the PBS branch is behind some 2000 revisions :=
22:46:46  <Hackykid> i'm not exactly that up-to-date anymore :-p
22:46:49  <Eddi|zuHause> but i meant the PBS part of the mini_in
22:46:51  <Hackykid> yeah, that too
22:47:30  <RichK67> i have a patch at 4286, but its buggy as hell ;)
22:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause> celestar was thinking about a new signalling concept, that can later be extended to PBS
22:47:35  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is pretty far away
22:47:41  <Hackykid> yeah
22:48:19  <Hackykid> i suppose it'd be nice to hava a playable pbs until a proper implementation comes along....
22:48:20  <RichK67> glx: if i add the savegame info to the "prod_changes" Patches definition, is that sufficient to fix the saveload?
22:48:27  <Hackykid> but its a lot of work...
22:48:54  <glx> RichK67: I'm trying to understand how yapf save/load work :)
22:49:05  <Sacro> i havent looked into YAPF yet
22:49:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i assume yapf completely broke PBS, as it was relying on NPF
22:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> also, it had problems with newstations
22:49:28  <RichK67> Hackykid: if you would have a go - perhaps take the MiniIN at 4917, and the 4286 PBS, then somehow integrate them into a patch against the MiniIN branch, that would be great
22:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> but that is easy to fix, according to peter1138
22:49:48  <glx> RichK67: ok found, it uses STD_COND*
22:49:50  <RichK67> but wait until ive added most of the patches
22:50:05  <glx> that explains how it can work :)
22:50:21  <Hackykid> well, yapf and my old pbs probably wont ever work together... so you'd have to choose, yapf or pbs...
22:50:22  <RichK67> yeah, it looked like it was optional somehow
22:50:47  <Hackykid> not sure if that is a good idea....
22:50:51  <RichK67> HK, yup; that is the cost to the player who wants PBS now
22:50:59  <Sacro> nope, newstations did i think
22:51:04  <glx> RichK67: yes only loaded for savegames > 28
22:51:17  <Bjarni> I better get some sleep
22:51:21  <Bjarni> I  started to image stuff
22:51:34  <RichK67> glx: so i change it to:
22:51:35  <RichK67>       SDT_VAR(Patches, prod_changes,        SLE_UINT8, 29, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0, 0,         1,   1,   10, STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_PROD_CHANGES,        NULL),
22:51:39  <Bjarni> I imaged that Hackykid was in this  channel
22:51:45  <Hackykid> its all lies!
22:51:52  <Hackykid> dont believe it!
22:51:59  <Bjarni> yeah
22:52:09  <Bjarni> he is too busy founding his new political party
22:52:15  <glx> RichK67: SDT_CONDVAR will be better I think
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22:52:53  <RichK67> yup
22:53:03  <Sacro> what happens if you merge PBS back into the miniin?
22:53:14  <RichK67> how?
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22:53:39  <Hackykid> you end up with 1 big conflict.... i'd guess
22:53:55  <RichK67> yup; my thoughts exactly
22:54:14  <Eddi|zuHause> how about a config option "WITH_PBS", that disables yapf?
22:54:43  <Hackykid> config  option... you mean like a compile time thingy?
22:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause> (at compile time)
22:54:52  <RichK67> the old MiniIN 4917 was pretty stable, and had PBS, but there is no way to extract just PBS out of the 530Kb patch!
22:54:52  <Hackykid> lol :-p
22:55:06  <Hackykid> aah
22:55:13  <glx> don't forget that there are no free bits in map for stations
22:55:36  <RichK67> eddi: yapf already has a use/dont use patch option; so you already know if its in use.  if it is, no PBS.
22:55:37  <Hackykid> hmm, that would indeed cause probs for pbs..
22:55:52  <glx> only in stations :)
22:56:11  <Eddi|zuHause> for the umpteenth time, you just need to ask peter1138 to fix that
22:56:13  <Hackykid> so you only get crashes in stations! whooptydoo!
22:56:22  <Hackykid> hehe
22:56:48  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: but he won't do that for old pbs
22:56:49  <RichK67> woohoo... thanks glx: that works!
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22:57:31  <RichK67> lol - sacro asks a question; disappears while we discuss it, and reappears as we end discussion ;)
22:57:54  <glx> as always :D
22:57:58  <SpComb> Logs:
22:57:58  <Sacro> !logs
22:58:06  <Sacro> hmm, my internet bottomed out
22:58:26  <Sacro> i missed a reply in #cakephp too
22:58:47  <Prof_Frink> Mmm, cayke
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23:00:04  <glx> RichK67: MiniIN users must be warned that their savegames will be unloadable everytime the savegame version in trunk is increased
23:00:21  <Sacro> they wont like that
23:01:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is the same with every other branch
23:01:24  <glx> yes
23:01:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> they'll need to get used to it
23:01:40  <Hackykid> hmm, isnt there a way around that?
23:02:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, you only need to change those same lines RichK67 now changed back in their local copy
23:02:03  <glx> fix the savegame by hand
23:02:13  <Hackykid> hmm, i suppose it would be somewhat tricky..
23:02:25  <glx> easy to do with an hex editor
23:02:31  <Hackykid> hmm, yeah
23:02:53  <glx> 4 bytes at offset 4
23:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> i believe changing the saveload code would be easier ;)
23:03:19  <RichK67> back - sorry was off testing
23:04:04  <glx> my suggestion is only to be able to load a pre-"savegame bump in trunk" branch savegame
23:04:22  <RichK67> glx: i intend keeping MiniIN up to date with trunk, so if trunk version increases, ill up the MiniIN version
23:04:33  <glx> right
23:04:48  <[Shaman]> e//
23:04:52  <glx> but all pre-bump MiniIN savegames won't be unloadable
23:05:00  <[Shaman]> MiniIN svn is fully functional, RichK67?
23:05:26  <RichK67> the svn is working, but not many patches are in
23:05:26  <Hackykid> maybe miniin savegames should have some marker to indicate its a miniin savegame
23:06:02  <Hackykid> so, hmm, oh bleh nvm
23:06:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> there were thoughts about a svn-wide unique savegame version, but i believe that got discarded
23:06:14  <RichK67> its sounding more and more like i need to create the patch-aware save system i thought of earlier
23:08:17  <Hackykid> miniin save games could have a sub-savegame version maybe..
23:08:36  <Hackykid> aargh
23:08:37  <RichK67> its an embedded list of the patches installed at save-time, along with a parseable (and thus skippable) data structure. so even OTTD trunk would be able to open a savegame and see whether it supports the patches it was saved with
23:08:39  <Hackykid> ehm
23:08:56  <Hackykid> sleep!
23:08:58  *** tokai [] has quit ["It's like, wah."]
23:09:05  <Hackykid> goodnight all
23:09:05  <RichK67> gn
23:09:10  <glx> gn
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23:15:46  <Sacro> hmmm
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23:17:08  <RichK67> Pile Transport with Snow in Temp & Smooth Economy is cool :)
23:22:18  <CIA-3> richk * r5053 /branch/MiniIN/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
23:22:18  <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [SmoothEconomy]: Added Sirkoz's smooth_economy_sz_v2_4_r_16_r5006.patch.
23:22:18  <CIA-3> Modified the prod_changes Patches var to be a SLE_CONDVAR, with savegame version 29.
23:22:18  <CIA-3> Bumped the savegame version to 29.
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23:28:56  <CIA-3> richk * r5054 /branch/MiniIN/patches/ (. MiniINpatches.txt [MiniIN]: Added patches subdirectory, with list of patches and zip of original source patches.
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23:30:37  <RichK67> ok, im off - gn
23:30:56  <glx> gn RichK67
23:31:10  <RichK67> glx: thanks for help :)
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23:43:14  <Sacro> mooooooo
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