Log for #openttd on 1st June 2006:
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00:10:07  <RichK67> hi all
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00:16:34  <Sacro> hey RichK67_
00:16:48  <Sacro> or RichK67 even
00:16:54  <RichK67_> ook - i got bumped
00:17:11  <Sacro> did you?
00:17:24  <RichK67_> by the system, not a person
00:17:56  <RichK67_> ahh well
00:18:50  <RichK67_> im thinking of making 2 versions of the TGP front end - one for new games, with current options plus no. of towns, no. of ind, start date
00:19:48  <RichK67_> one for scenario gen - with lots of options (eg. transmitters y/n, "generate as newgame", etc.)... any thoughts on what options you would like to see on the scengen version
00:19:51  <RichK67_> ?
00:25:12  <Sacro> lol, guess u mean me
00:25:28  <Sacro> im not sure, i dont generate scenarios
00:25:34  <RichK67_> anyone, really :)
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02:17:43  <jcs> Hi @all
02:18:08  <Sacro> hey jcs
02:19:17  <jcs> a friend of mine wants to compile openttd 0.4.7 on suse 10 but always gets an error.  strgen/strgen.c:5
02:19:51  <Sacro> whats the full error?
02:20:00  <jcs> and i thought someone in here may help or have an idea of whats wrong..
02:20:32  <jcs> ===> Compiling and Linking strgen/strgen
02:20:34  <jcs> and then
02:20:55  <jcs> In file included from strgen/../stdafx.h:7,
02:21:07  <jcs> from strgen/strgen.c:5
02:21:39  <jcs> /usr/...../string.h:26: syntax error before str_fmt
02:21:46  <jcs> and so on.
02:21:51  <jcs> any ideas? :)
02:25:38  <jcs> the problem is, that the full error is in my mailbox as .jpg ;-)
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02:27:42  <Sacro> sorry, gtg, post it in tt-forums
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02:44:34  <plaf> hi
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07:05:53  <MeusH> hello everybody
07:08:36  <[Shaman]> lo
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07:13:55  <Celestar> morning
07:14:16  <Celestar> KUDr: ping me when you got a minute
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07:21:33  <Smoky555> morning :)
07:23:24  <Smoky555> since r5006 i can't compile OpenTTD in VC6 ...
07:23:24  <Smoky555> does anybody know something about this?
07:23:45  <Fujitsu> Why would you want to compile OpenTTD in VC6?
07:24:47  <Smoky555> sorry, not me, but my friends, they have old PC :(
07:24:47  <Smoky555> all errors are in YAPF modules
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07:25:21  <Celestar> Smoky555: VC6 is no longer supported
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07:25:44  <Celestar> Smoky555: because it has a very very shitty C++ and a shitty C front-end
07:25:50  <Smoky555> ok, i see ...
07:26:04  <Celestar> Smoky555: there is Visual Studio 2005 Express
07:26:06  <Celestar> which is free
07:26:15  <Celestar> or use CygWin with minGW
07:26:19  * Smoky555 going to translate this for my friends ...
07:26:19  <Celestar> which is also free
07:26:25  <[Shaman]> or VS.NET 2005 if yer rich (or a pie-rat)
07:26:36  <Darkvater> and you got a newer pc
07:26:45  <Darkvater> cause it uses a ton of resources+ .NET framework
07:26:47  <Celestar> morning Darkvater
07:26:50  <Darkvater> hiya
07:26:57  <Smoky555> as for me, i use cygwin
07:27:01  <[Shaman]> Darkvater: not -that- much, most .net resources are shared resources anyways
07:27:06  <Fujitsu> Or you could use MinGW, or Linux.
07:27:17  <Darkvater> [Shaman]: think in terms of win98
07:27:18  <Celestar> I'm lucky that I don't haveta use this crappy OS
07:27:21  <Celestar> back in a few
07:27:23  <[Shaman]> eh
07:27:32  <[Shaman]> if you're stuck with win98 you might want to upgrade first :P
07:27:51  <[Shaman]> = BOOM
07:27:56  <Darkvater> 09:24 < Smoky555> sorry, not me, but my friends, they have old PC :(
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07:28:33  <[Shaman]> old pc can be an old 1.5ghz with winxp ;)
07:28:43  <Darkvater> oh
07:28:47  <Darkvater> heh
07:28:54  * Darkvater has an ancient pc
07:29:01  <[Shaman]> people complain their pc is old when it doesn't reach 3ghz
07:29:02  <Darkvater> 1.3GHz and 800MHz
07:29:10  <Prof_Frink> Pah
07:29:25  <Prof_Frink> 166MHz, 32MB ram, get in there
07:29:39  <[Shaman]> got a spare P166/32mb ram somewhere as well
07:29:49  <Darkvater> we can play the game of who can go the latest, but I actually use mine as my main pC
07:29:57  <Prof_Frink> [Shaman]: prolly bigger'n mine
07:30:08  <Darkvater> which I doubt of yours Prof_Frink, except if you have it set up as some file-server..which doesn't count :)
07:30:26  <Smoky555> Darkvater: "old PC" is P266 with 64M RAM ...
07:30:48  <[Shaman]> 1.4gb hdd e//
07:30:56  <[Shaman]> ok, that -is- old
07:31:00  <[Shaman]> might be able to run winxp tho :P
07:31:10  <[Shaman]> but wouldn't be smart to do :P
07:31:44  <[Shaman]> I'd say CygWin+MinGW
07:32:11  <Fujitsu> I'd say Linux...
07:32:35  <Darkvater> fuck I stayed up until 2AM to get this damn WSDL working
07:32:58  <[Shaman]> Fujitsu: Yes, let him learn a complete new OS on a crappy pc :P
07:33:04  <[Shaman]> ((Would be well amusing tho))
07:33:06  <Darkvater> turned out I gave a resource the same name as my service, which then nicely failed with a NameBindExpression...
07:33:14  <Darkvater> oh yeah, don't you love good error messages?
07:33:29  <[Shaman]> ErrorMessages++
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07:33:59  * peter1138 pats his trusty athlon 800
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07:34:19  <Celestar> hi peops
07:34:21  <Smoky555> [Shaman]: can you explain me, how i can use CygWin+MinGW ?
07:34:38  <peter1138> there's a wiki article about it
07:34:51  <Celestar> Darkvater: we still have a bit of bugs left :(
07:35:07  <Celestar> Darkvater: I've been trying to fix the pathfinding problems ...
07:35:08  <Prof_Frink> Darkvater: Aye, that computer only really exists as a remote terminal and for warcycling
07:35:37  <peter1138>
07:35:42  <peter1138> (might be out of date now)
07:37:11  <[Shaman]> peter1138: athlon 800? dude yer so 20th century :P
07:38:11  <peter1138> it was top of the range once
07:38:16  <[Shaman]> heh
07:38:16  <peter1138> for about 5 minutes in 2000...
07:38:21  <Smoky555> peter1138: i use cygwin since 2004, i think that it is possible to use cygwin+MinGW ...
07:38:21  <Smoky555> but ... can you tell me, is PNGLIB working well in cygwin? can i compile OpenTTD in cygwin with pnglib?
07:38:25  <[Shaman]> nothing is 'top of the range' for longer than 5 minutes
07:39:25  <Celestar> Darkvater: wtf is WSDL?
07:40:25  <MeusH> Celestar:
07:41:21  <Celestar> uh huh
07:41:41  <Celestar> Darkvater: I found no easy way to fix the pathfinding bugs apart from rewriting parts of NTP (and I know too little about it)
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07:42:43  <MeusH> why not to forget about NTP and go 100% YAPF?
07:42:55  <Celestar> MeusH: because we're talking 0.4.8 here
07:43:45  <peter1138> which bugs are left?
07:44:04  <MeusH> oh, okay
07:44:24  <peter1138> if it works as it does in 0.4.7, then i don't see any problem with it
07:44:41  <peter1138> it's not ideal
07:44:43  <peter1138> obviously
07:44:47  <Celestar> peter1138: <= those :)
07:44:50  <peter1138> that's why we have NPF and YAPF in the first place
07:45:24  <Celestar> peter1138: I kind of agree
07:45:26  <peter1138> Celestar: so the only NTP "bug" is the randomness?
07:45:32  <peter1138> that has always been there...
07:45:34  <Celestar> and the train reversal ...
07:45:42  <Celestar> which is related
07:45:48  <peter1138> not really
07:45:53  <Celestar> it is
07:46:08  <Celestar> it both has to do with the fact that NTP doesn't find the shortest path when there are no junctions
07:46:10  <peter1138> that's a waypoint issue, as it affects all pathfinders
07:46:26  <Celestar> EGRAMMAR
07:46:47  <peter1138> rather than just one specific pathfinder :P
07:47:20  <Celestar> peter1138: there are two issues with the train reversal
07:47:28  *** robobed is now known as roboman
07:47:38  <roboman> gevening
07:47:59  <Celestar> peter1138: one is the fact that the correct path isn't found by NTP
07:48:12  <Celestar> peter1138: the other one is the fact that trains can reverse at waypoints
07:48:25  <MeusH> hey roboman
07:48:30  <Celestar> peter1138: however, the latter is intended
07:48:47  <Celestar> peter1138: (see train_cmd.c:2472)
07:48:57  <Celestar> s/72/27/
07:49:23  <peter1138> bzzzt
07:50:01  <peter1138> you've misinterpreted that code ;)
07:50:09  <peter1138>
07:50:11  <Celestar> I have?
07:50:32  <Celestar> uh huh :)
07:50:32  <peter1138> yes
07:50:41  <peter1138> that is for finding the next destination
07:51:04  <Celestar> peter1138: the thing is, trains can reverse EVERYWHERE (currently)
07:51:20  <peter1138> so?
07:51:43  <peter1138> (depending on that turn around difficulty option)
07:52:40  <peter1138> [i've not tested that diff, and i've got to go to work :(]
07:52:42  <Celestar> afaik when you press "Goto Depot", a train can reverse, can it not?
07:52:47  <peter1138> yes
07:52:55  <peter1138> but that's different
07:53:05  <peter1138> that's because you've pressed the goto depot button
07:53:10  <peter1138> trains *don't* just randomly turn around
07:53:50  <peter1138> the bit that reverses that is explicitly in the send to depot command
07:54:15  <Celestar> yes
07:54:28  <Celestar> peter1138: tell Darkvater to test that diff, I'm at work as well, and rather busy today
07:54:37  <peter1138> basically that diff should make it so that trains never turn around at a waypoint, which is the desired result
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07:54:52  <peter1138> (even if the route it screwey, you put that waypoint there for a reason...)
07:55:11  <Celestar> beauty :)
07:55:19  * peter1138 > gone
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08:00:40  <Celestar> GAAAAAAH
08:00:48  <Celestar> Illustrator is a horrible tool
08:03:30  * Celestar reverts to inkscape
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08:09:38  * peter1138 > here
08:12:23  * roboman homework
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08:22:16  * Celestar detonates
08:22:27  <Celestar> how to I draw a friggen arrow in Illustrator
08:24:02  <peter1138> <--
08:24:34  * roboman dinner
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08:39:03  <MeusH[away]> lol
08:39:12  <MeusH[away]> I've got so long headphone cables
08:39:31  <MeusH[away]> I walk across my home with my headphones
08:39:42  <MeusH[away]> it's like 12 meters long
08:41:17  <peter1138> said the actress to the bishop
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08:45:23  <peter1138> Celestar: that patch appears to work
08:45:45  <peter1138> set up a quick test, haven't used an actual game
08:47:43  <peter1138> however, i can improve it somewhat
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08:53:34  <Celestar> peter1138: ok I'll wait for your improvements
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09:01:52  <KUDr_wrk> [09:14:15] <Celestar> KUDr: ping me when you got a minute <-- ping
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09:09:29  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: you got a minute?
09:09:40  <KUDr_wrk> hope so
09:09:55  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: did you read our yapf "feature request" yesterday?
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09:10:49  <KUDr_wrk> no
09:10:52  <KUDr_wrk> where
09:11:26  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I was think that YAPF could (optionally) select the correct platform on a station depending on train and platform length (as short as possible, as long as needed) Is that possible?
09:11:42  <KUDr_wrk> aha
09:11:50  <KUDr_wrk> yes i noted it yesterday
09:11:58  <KUDr_wrk> could be possible hopefully
09:12:16  <KUDr_wrk> is there some API for platform length?
09:12:20  <Celestar> yes
09:13:12  <Celestar> I remember there was something
09:13:47  <Celestar> hm
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09:14:03  <Celestar> uint GetStationPlatforms(const Station *st, TileIndex tile) <= that's the number of platforms ..
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09:15:04  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: let me look a bit more
09:15:32  <KUDr_wrk> ok, if you can help me with it i would appreciate it
09:15:50  <Celestar> I can code the API GetPlatformLength(TileIndex tile)
09:15:57  <KUDr_wrk> wow!
09:16:04  <KUDr_wrk> would help
09:16:38  <Celestar> but I have used it somewhere for station slowing ...
09:16:51  <KUDr_wrk> do it the same as tunnels or your bridges
09:17:08  <Celestar> no
09:17:09  <KUDr_wrk> the other end and length
09:17:11  <Celestar> it's inlined :S
09:17:14  <KUDr_wrk> no?
09:17:17  <KUDr_wrk> ah
09:17:23  <Celestar> train_cmd.c:337
09:18:04  <Celestar> you want an own api for that or is that enough? :)
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09:18:31  <KUDr_wrk> i must look - it takes me time....
09:18:38  <Celestar> 4 lines
09:18:42  <Celestar> I'll make some API wait
09:19:23  <KUDr_wrk> hmm line 337 is blank
09:19:30  <Celestar> wait ...
09:19:31  <KUDr_wrk> probably update needed
09:20:15  <KUDr_wrk> 			int delta_v;
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09:25:26  <peter1138> 220 ESMTP BNS Outgoing Service
09:25:26  <peter1138> ^]
09:25:28  <peter1138> err
09:25:50  <peter1138> btw
09:25:56  <peter1138> "an own" makes no sense to english speakers
09:26:05  <peter1138> it would be "your own" or "our own"
09:26:45  <MeusH[away]> cya
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09:27:20  <peter1138> Celestar:
09:31:33  <Celestar> peter1138: will check later
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09:38:46  <peter1138> Celestar: maybe i should post it to fs ;)
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09:40:44  <Celestar> peter1138: maybe :)
09:40:47  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: there you go.
09:40:49  <Bjarni> hi Celestar
09:40:52  <Bjarni> hi peter1138
09:40:56  <peter1138> hello
09:41:09  <Bjarni> hi people
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09:41:23  <Bjarni> so, anything interesting going on?
09:41:27  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: here
09:41:28  <Bjarni> hi RichK67
09:41:35  <RichK67> hi all
09:41:39  <CIA-3> celestar * r5063 /trunk/ (station.h station_cmd.c train_cmd.c): -Codechange: Add a function to determine the length of a platform (request by KUDr)
09:41:48  <Bjarni> RichK67: how is the airport thing coming along?
09:41:51  <Celestar> hi Bjarni you have a bug report open for 0.4.8
09:41:54  <peter1138> Bjarni: yes, test my patch at
09:41:56  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: thanks
09:42:14  <Celestar> RichK67 have you "synced" your 4 airports with Darkvater'S requests?
09:42:24  <RichK67> i reckon New Airports is 90%+ ready, just need some feedback/direction on a new gui
09:42:45  <RichK67> Celestar: all done/argued out of ;)   except for gui
09:42:54  <Celestar> what GUI?
09:42:54  <peter1138> Celestar: DEBUG(misc, 0) ?
09:43:02  <Celestar> peter1138: DA;MOT
09:43:05  <Celestar> DAMNIT
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09:43:37  <Bjarni> <Celestar>	hi Bjarni you have a bug report open for 0.4.8 <-- I know, but I'm waiting on Darkvater to be convinced that solution 3 is the right one. I think he called it stupid or something like that
09:43:39  <RichK67> DV not happy with gui for it - wants something different, but not really specified it a lot.
09:43:42  <CIA-3> celestar * r5064 /trunk/train_cmd.c: -Fix: Remove stay debug stuff from lat commit. (thanks peter1138)
09:43:57  <Celestar> RichK67: I've so neatly arranged the airport types into sections ...
09:43:59  <Celestar> peter1138: better? ;)
09:44:01  <peter1138> :)
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09:44:28  <RichK67> celestar: into sections??
09:44:42  <Celestar> RichK67: yes ....
09:45:10  <peter1138> do for airports what was done for stations?
09:45:21  <peter1138> (although, that was done because the spec specified classes)
09:46:31  <Celestar> I had something better
09:46:40  <Vornicus> Bjarni: what's the bug report?
09:48:24  <peter1138> Celestar: show us
09:49:00  <Celestar> peter1138: yes
09:49:05  <Celestar> standby, upping diff
09:49:37  <Bjarni> Vornicus: <-- it's about a train dropping all the wagons when autoreplacing
09:50:18  <Celestar> SUCKS
09:50:26  <Celestar> ksnapshot can't snapshot SDL windows ? :o
09:50:28  <Trenskow> What is the timescope for turning tunnels?
09:50:39  <Trenskow> and what are the difficulties involved?
09:50:53  <Bjarni> Trenskow: I don't think it will be coded this year
09:51:11  <Vornicus> Trenskow: that involves 1. rewriting the map array, 2. writing UI code, 3. figuring out how to balance it.
09:51:25  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-212-50-170-202.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
09:52:07  <Trenskow> Vornicus, I was just thinking. wasn't it easier to just make it simple. like selecting tunnel input til and tunnel output tile, and then just create a tunnel between those two.
09:52:08  <Bjarni> Vornicus: basically it's about max train length. This guy disabled mammoth trains, so it got a max length of 9. He then made a train with one engine and 8 wagons (that is max length) and then autoreplaced to a dualheaded engine. That made the train 10 units long = too long and moving the wagons to the new engine fails
09:52:51  <Celestar> RichK67: peter1138 Darkvater RFC:
09:53:05  <Sacro> morning all
09:53:13  <Celestar> Vornicus: I think not that it involves rewriting the map array.
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09:53:33  <Vornicus> So what's your solution, and why does DV think it sucks?
09:53:48  <Celestar> simple
09:53:49  <peter1138> Celestar: if that can be done dynamically...
09:54:07  <Sacro> Celestar: well i like it
09:54:16  <Xaroth> Celestar: I like the window design
09:54:19  <Vornicus> Celestar: it probably does, really - in the end you need to think about 16 layers of road or rail.
09:54:20  <Xaroth> grouped buttons = good
09:54:24  <Celestar> peter1138: store offsets in the map array.
09:54:36  <Celestar> Sacro: Xaroth: thanks.
09:54:37  <peter1138> ?
09:54:44  <peter1138> Celestar: i meant the airport giu
09:54:46  <Xaroth> but maybe increase the spacing between last button and next label a pixel or 2 :o
09:54:46  <peter1138> gui
09:54:48  <Celestar> peter1138: oh :)
09:54:56  <Xaroth> to give the 'seperated' feeling
09:54:56  <Celestar> I thought about tunnels
09:55:00  <Xaroth> other than that, perfect :)
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09:55:10  <Celestar> Xaroth: that is not that much effort :)
09:55:16  <Xaroth> true
09:55:18  <Celestar> RichK67:
09:55:44  <Sacro> i'd move coverage area and buttons down 2 pixels, and the accepts down another 2
09:55:48  <RichK67_> [10.48] peter1138: i guess so, but at the moment it would be fixed lists, not dynamic
09:56:41  <RichK67_> Celestar: I like it; got the diff?
09:56:57  <ln-> os x wannabe theme
09:57:01  <RichK67_> sacro: agree with you
09:57:32  <peter1138> (is it wide enough for non-english text?)
09:57:51  <RichK67_> [btw I hate my work connection - keeps dropping me from the internet] :(    (even in firefox)
09:58:08  <Eddi|zuHause> there needs do be some consistency in adding "airport" to all the names, or none
09:58:34  <Xaroth> or 'removing'all 'airport'from the names
09:58:52  <peter1138> i say remove it
09:58:57  <Xaroth> since there's only 2 who have 'airport' in their name
09:58:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i agree
09:59:15  <Xaroth> (plus you might be able to make the window a tiny bit smaller)
09:59:20  <Eddi|zuHause> none is the better option...
09:59:39  <Xaroth> I'll go photoshop it :P
09:59:57  <Celestar> Xaroth: Sacro <= better?
10:00:18  <Xaroth> yarrrr
10:00:19  <Celestar> <= RichK67_ there
10:00:43  <RichK67_> oh yeah, one question; when you create a heliport, the default name it tries is <townname> Heliport.... however, helidepots and helistations are also <townname> Heliport.... should it be Helistation/Helidepot?
10:00:54  <Celestar> nah
10:01:00  <Celestar> passengers don't care
10:01:09  <RichK67_> okies
10:01:16  <Celestar> we call all the other things "airports" as well
10:01:55  <RichK67_> if the name <townname> Heliport has already gone, should it try <townname> <alternative> Heliport.... eg. Dunbury Woods Heliport
10:02:00  <Celestar> now what about bridges? we solve the bb issues before or after merging.
10:02:12  <Celestar> RichK67_: possibly, but that's for later methinks
10:02:21  <RichK67_> btw i missed the answer; district out?
10:02:31  <Celestar> yes :)
10:02:34  <Celestar> but the time being
10:02:37  <Celestar> for*
10:02:49  <Celestar> but I'm open to more layouts actally for later on
10:03:02  <Celestar> just something with fewer "aircraft flies through building" stuff :P
10:03:06  <RichK67_> ok, should i retain the extra graphics in airports.grf ... its only the district that uses more than the tarmac
10:03:23  <Celestar> don't care about that one honestly
10:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i think instead of adding another dozen layouts, we should aim for dynamic layouts
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10:03:39  <RichK67_> Celestar: just something with fewer "aircraft flies through building" stuff :P   huh???
10:04:01  <Celestar> RichK67_: I wouldn'T wanna be a pilot on the district ones :P
10:04:27  <RichK67_> ah - ok.... "lets just hope the brakes work" airport ;)
10:04:38  <Celestar> that's default on any airport :)
10:04:52  <Celestar> no brakes => trouble :P
10:05:10  <RichK67_> ok - ill add that diff, and i think New Airports will be trunk-ready tonite
10:05:16  <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me of that JAG episode
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10:05:45  <Celestar> RichK67_: see if you've done additional stuff (because my diff is rather old)
10:05:50  <Sacro> ng
10:06:22  <RichK67_> ill manually apply the gui from the diff (and the English.txt changes)
10:06:30  <RichK67_> rest is more up-to-date
10:06:36  <Eddi|zuHause> where they tried to land a C131 on a aircraft carrier (?)
10:07:03  <Xaroth>
10:07:05  <Xaroth> (i think)
10:07:10  <RichK67_> then ill create a build without District, and send to DV for checking
10:07:13  <Xaroth> would that be possible, Celestar?
10:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and they were like "we have break problems, go on full speed against the wind"
10:07:41  <Eddi|zuHause> "we land with reverse throttle"
10:07:52  <Celestar> Xaroth: you mean the divisors?
10:07:57  * Xaroth nods
10:08:03  <Celestar> lets see
10:08:19  <Bjarni> <Vornicus>	So what's your solution, and why does DV think it sucks? <-- because max train length should be the number of units (except articulated engines only count as one, so tenders and stuff like that don't count)
10:08:30  <Xaroth> Took the liberty to 'center' the cover area thingie since it doesn't look pwetty when in a corner when it's divided
10:09:05  <Bjarni> that max train length was added before trains was a linked list, so it made sense to control a max length to reserve, but not really anymore
10:10:54  <Eddi|zuHause> max train length should be a gameplay motivated setting, not a technically motivated setting
10:11:06  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be number of (half)tiles
10:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and variable
10:11:33  <Vornicus> really it should depend on the length of your longest station, or some such madness
10:11:35  <Xaroth> or limit it to the max station size * 2? :o
10:11:41  <Celestar> RichK67_: <= new diff
10:11:42  <Xaroth> for multiplayer
10:12:30  <Celestar> Xaroth: <= better?
10:13:20  <RichK67_> i like it more :)
10:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause> looks great ;)
10:13:56  <Celestar> Darkvater: any more requests?
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10:14:37  <Celestar> peter1138: where was that waypoint diff?
10:17:25  <Eddi|zuHause> [01.06. 11:29] <peter1138> Celestar: <- that?
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10:17:46  <Eddi|zuHause> gah... mIRC is stupid ;p
10:18:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it does not find words when it inserted a linebreak...
10:18:24  <Celestar> peter1138: there's something weird with that diff ...
10:18:42  <peter1138> Bjarni: i think tenders not counting makes sense. dunno about dual head engines
10:20:07  <Trenskow> I actually have a suggestion: is it possible to make autosignals on train splits
10:20:35  <Trenskow> if i have a tile where a track splits in two, then there will be signals on that tile on each end automaticly?
10:20:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine that to be impossible
10:20:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot determin what the user is thinking
10:21:01  <Eddi|zuHause> +e
10:21:16  * Celestar agreed
10:21:18  <Celestar> *s
10:21:32  <Trenskow> no.. but you could make the signals by clicking ex. ctrl on creation, and then use the signal tool to modify the signals
10:21:36  <Trenskow> eg direction and type
10:21:44  <Celestar> I'd like to have autorail automagically place signals
10:21:53  <Celestar> where drag-direction is train-direction
10:22:12  <Trenskow> Celestar, that would be nice to
10:22:46  <Trenskow> maybe a comboclick combination.... like you select autorail AND signal tool in the tools window at once
10:22:58  <Eddi|zuHause> but how do you handle the signal distance then?
10:23:04  <Celestar> when you hold down CTRL during drag
10:23:10  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: we already have such a setting ...
10:23:13  <Celestar> signal_drag_distance
10:23:16  <Trenskow> like multiselect in combobox (html, ui)
10:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause> especially when you make a curve
10:23:28  <Celestar> you can't drag a curve
10:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to build it in 2 steps
10:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you always place a signal at the start and end of the line, you get a double signal in the curve
10:24:22  <Celestar> well, SOME user intervention is required
10:24:41  <Eddi|zuHause> or you make it like with the pylons... basically: (x+y) mod (signal distance) == 0
10:25:08  <Eddi|zuHause> or something like that
10:25:54  <Trenskow> Celestar, another sugestion... make it look for ~/.openttd.cfg before it looks for ./openttd.cfg
10:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> then the user has to manually place the left out signals at the beginning and end of track
10:26:15  <Trenskow> I could implement that myself
10:26:36  <peter1138> Celestar: i wish i could place signals where trains are...
10:26:42  <peter1138> especially with dragging them
10:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, also upgrade to elrail
10:27:25  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: that one's easy to fix...
10:27:31  <peter1138> (just remove one check)
10:27:33  <Eddi|zuHause> or place parallel track on tile
10:27:39  <peter1138> yes
10:27:45  <peter1138> (and signals on same)
10:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> this is always sooo annoying
10:28:16  <peter1138> someone should make a note on fs as feature requests, else we'll forget
10:30:40  <Sacro> peter1138: but what if a non-dev codes them, then they dont get implemented
10:31:42  <peter1138> oh quit with the bullshit
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10:39:30  <Celestar> bah
10:39:34  <Celestar> stupid stupid matlab
10:39:46  <Celestar> maybe it should set window size <= desktop size :S
10:40:31  <Trenskow> But I have to say one thing... Great work guys. I love the game, and it's already way better then the original ttd :D
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10:42:09  <RichK67> back - but not sure for how long (damn connection)
10:42:37  <Celestar> thanks Trenskow
10:42:39  <Celestar> hm
10:42:41  <Celestar> wmaker rocks
10:43:17  <RichK67> celestar: were there any more comments on New Airports after my last disconnect?
10:44:17  <Sacro> RichK67: nah, just Celestar hating matlab and Trenskow loving OpenTTD
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10:45:04  <Celestar> lol
10:45:17  <Trenskow^away> cya
10:45:21  <peter1138> and me idly scoffing choclate bars :/
10:45:48  <Sacro> peter1138: mmm, quite fancy some chocolate now...where did i put that bag of malteasers
10:46:35  <Celestar> er how do I close an applet in wmaker :P
10:46:38  <RichK67> hmm... i was naughty yesterday - forgot my diabetes tablets, and then ate 3 choc cup-cakes... unsuprisingly I had a high sugar level this morning ;)
10:46:55  <hylje> :p
10:46:56  <Sacro> RichK67: hehe, you should be more careful
10:47:20  <Celestar> :P
10:47:22  <RichK67> lol :)
10:47:40  <Bjarni> RichK67: sounds like you tried to commit suicide or something like that
10:48:03  <Bjarni> you know, it you might pay for this later
10:48:04  <Celestar> back later
10:48:05  <Sacro> Bjarni: one of the more bizarre ways to do it i suppose, not one i'd thought of
10:48:06  <Celestar> food tile
10:48:28  <Bjarni> Sacro: maybe should want to get diabetes, so you can do it?
10:48:50  <Sacro> Bjarni: i could just take the rest of my antidepressants, happy myself to death
10:49:08  <Bjarni> hmm
10:49:44  <Bjarni> recent research indicates that such medicine is worthless on a lot of people, so giving depressed people something like that might not be a great idea
10:50:16  <Sacro> it has been known to increase suicidal thoughts
10:50:52  <Bjarni> that's my point
10:51:21  <RichK67> ah - a bit like updating the (old) MiniIN and finding 50+ conflicted files ;)
10:54:58  <Celestar> back
10:55:30  <Celestar> RichK67: I guess you'll have some conflicts once we merge bridges :)
10:56:07  <Sacro> hehe, whens bridges coming?
10:56:47  * Vornicus ponders things
10:56:51  <Celestar> as soon as peter1138 and Darkvater have expressed their opinion on when (and how) to solve the graphical glitches
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10:57:34  <RichK67> possibly, but the new MiniIN branch has made conflicts much less frequent, so the bridges may apply quite well (i hope)
10:59:00  <Brianetta> Show-off (:
11:00:22  <RichK67> the new MiniIN branch has less conflicts, because it currently has a LOT less patches ;)
11:01:46  <Celestar> lol
11:02:04  <Sacro> RichK67: thats cheating :P
11:02:33  <Brianetta> What's the purpose of the Minty?
11:02:48  <Celestar> of the WHAT?
11:03:23  <Vornicus> mmm, minty.
11:05:00  <RichK67> purpose? to provide a variety of user patches integrated with the latest nightly... a taster and testbed for new features
11:05:05  <Brianetta> Mini INTegrated nightlY
11:05:29  <Brianetta> Is it a good testbed, and is it really a taster of new features?
11:05:30  <RichK67> hmmm.... Mintegration :)
11:06:00  <Brianetta> There's no certainty that te Minty's new features will make it to the trunk
11:06:33  <Celestar> so will
11:06:36  <Celestar> some will
11:06:37  <Celestar> other'S wont
11:06:51  <Celestar> and user feedback on the smooth economy patch?
11:07:18  <RichK67> no, but without a period of decent testing a patch definitely wont make it
11:07:25  <Celestar> true
11:08:24  <Brianetta> We need newstations for bus stations
11:08:49  <Brianetta> Just a set of utterly cosmetic eyecandies for them (:
11:09:15  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: peter1138 did you happen to have a chance to look at the bridge problems?
11:09:18  <RichK67> at least the MiniIN shows that a patch can be applied and committed ok; its then easier to make other decisions; does it work, are most bugs killed, is it wanted, etc... usually a patch stumbles first on the "its not current" problem
11:09:31  <KUDr_wrk> bridge problems?
11:09:43  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: I dunno, possibly a sprite sorter problem :(
11:09:54  * Sacro considers reading the economy patch, and redoing a daylength patch
11:10:18  <KUDr_wrk> you mean drawing?
11:10:24  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: yes
11:10:24  <KUDr_wrk> clipping cars?
11:10:25  <Celestar> I do
11:10:27  <KUDr_wrk> yes
11:10:35  <Celestar> yes what? ;)
11:10:35  <KUDr_wrk> hmm, look so
11:10:50  <Xaroth> Sacro: Make it so that you can slow down time as well :P
11:11:00  <Celestar> xrd
11:11:02  <Celestar> yes*
11:11:08  <Sacro> Xaroth: only works in OpenTTD
11:11:16  <KUDr_wrk> but i would f**k that and let it for the 3D graphics to handle that properly
11:11:21  <Xaroth> Sacro: Thats what i meant :P
11:11:52  <Sacro> Xaroth: it doesnt slow down time, it just adds a multiplier to the startnewday() function
11:11:52  <Sacro> or whatever its called
11:12:08  <Xaroth> yar, make it be able to slow down as well xD
11:12:28  <Sacro> make vehicles move slower?
11:12:33  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: we haven't any plans for 3D at the moment? at least no one's working on it.
11:12:34  <Xaroth> make time go slower
11:12:39  <Celestar> make time adjustable
11:12:42  <Celestar> (but that's rather easy)
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11:13:01  <Sacro> Celestar: yes, but you end up killing the economy
11:13:10  <KUDr_wrk> Celestar: i know, but it is easiest solution to postpone it indefinitelly
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11:13:35  <Brianetta> If you were the Communist Party of the People's Republic of China, how would you allow an opposition party to start up (so that you can call yourselves democratic) whilst still safely assuring yourselves of a 95%+ vote?
11:13:43  <Brianetta> Simple
11:13:49  <Brianetta>
11:14:21  <Brianetta> OK, so it's not a party in China
11:14:25  <Brianetta> but still
11:14:27  <Brianetta> it's funny
11:14:30  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: the drawing problems with elrails are significant
11:14:48  <KUDr_wrk> hmm
11:15:31  <KUDr_wrk> so somebody who knows how sprites work can solve it as separate task/bug
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11:15:41  <Celestar> ok
11:15:54  <Celestar> KUDr_wrk: that still leaves peter1138's and Darkvater's opinion open ....
11:15:58  <KUDr_wrk> it doesn't prevent anybody from using it
11:16:03  <Celestar> true
11:16:08  <peter1138> yeah
11:16:13  <peter1138> we can sort it later, imho
11:16:16  <KUDr_wrk> ok fine, it was my opinion only
11:16:16  <RichK67> LOL  "Other politicians only talk about us in a negative sense, as if we were criminals" ... maybe because you are ;)
11:16:17  <Celestar> peter1138: so that'S a "go" from you?
11:16:40  <peter1138> i know that my old-newbridge plan avoids that anyway
11:17:03  <Brianetta> This might even be considered slightly on-topic (:
11:17:03  <Brianetta>
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11:40:58  <RichK67> celestar: ping
11:41:47  <RichK67> about the airport patch; is it ok to leave the District code in the patch, but commented out? otherwise I will have to maintain two versions - one with and one without :(
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12:24:22  * roboman goes to bed
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12:33:21  <Brianetta> Why is district being removed?
12:33:49  <valhallasw> :?
12:38:16  <Trenskow^away> VERSION
12:38:25  <Trenskow^away> oops sooryy.. wrong window
12:39:44  <hylje> irssi
12:40:24  <Trenskow^away> well i did a msg, and not a ctcp which was also wrong :)
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12:47:31  <Celestar> back
12:47:49  <Celestar> RichK67: I'd suggest that you discuss that with darkvater
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12:52:28  *** Belugas_Wakes is now known as Belugas
12:52:42  <Belugas> morning
12:52:54  <Celestar> hi Belugas
12:53:43  <Belugas> How's life Celestar?
12:54:08  <Celestar> not bad
12:54:15  <Celestar> I'm just trying to teach a server to boot from CD
12:54:21  <Celestar> currently
12:54:25  <Celestar> server 4:0 me
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12:56:05  <Belugas> hehehe
12:56:17  <Belugas> ego -4 :)
12:57:11  <hylje> :o
12:59:52  <Belugas> O:
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13:01:54  <Celestar> server 5:0 me
13:01:54  <RichK67> grrr.... Proudmoore's comment in the OpenTTD Spinoff thread.... Although i know little about it - the answer will be "when it's ready". Since none of the developers are developing this professionally or commercially, it has no timetable. It's supposed to be in 0.6.0.
13:01:54  <RichK67>
13:01:54  <RichK67> Don't hold your breath - it'll almost certainly be a long wait....
13:02:14  <Celestar> RichK67: what is he talking about?
13:02:52  <RichK67> new map array
13:03:12  <RichK67> my reply ;)   "When you start paying the dev team some wages, we'll start being "professional" to your standard... until then, whistle."
13:03:26  *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@] has joined #openttd
13:03:57  <Celestar> lol
13:03:58  *** brygge_2 [n=joachim9@] has quit [Client Quit]
13:04:08  <Celestar> Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarkvater Darkvater
13:06:17  *** Born_Acorn [] has joined #openttd
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13:08:10  <Belugas> well... some devs are been paid while doing ottd stuff
13:08:26  <Belugas> but I think it is not worth mentionning it ;)
13:09:26  <peter1138> in my lunch break
13:09:27  <peter1138> i was
13:09:30  <peter1138> updating newsounds
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13:09:46  <peter1138> but don't tell that janet fellow
13:10:05  <Celestar> YAy
13:10:08  <Celestar> server 5:1 me
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13:20:36  <Belugas> ego +10
13:20:39  <Belugas> congrats!
13:20:56  <Celestar> me is booting ubuntu on Sparc
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13:26:53  <Celestar> stupid installer bugs me with keyboard layouts
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13:30:20  <Brianetta> Sparc++
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13:38:08  <RichK67> back later
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13:41:10  <Celestar> ok
13:41:25  * Celestar is seeding Ubuntu 6.0.6
13:41:53  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, that case is closed. My new codename is Wilma.
13:42:57  <peter1138> oh
13:43:21  * XeryusTC thinks of Fred :)
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13:43:54  <Celestar> can't I tell the installer that do NOT want to create a user? :S
13:44:44  <gathers> then who will you log in as? ;)
13:44:57  <hylje>
13:44:58  <peter1138> you need one
13:45:04  <peter1138> to set the root password
13:45:18  <Celestar> gathers: using NIS
13:45:40  <XeryusTC> hylje: nice drawing, made it yourself? :P
13:45:44  <hylje> no
13:46:36  <XeryusTC> woow, i just compiled r2514 :)
13:46:38  <hylje>
13:46:48  <peter1138> r2514? why?
13:47:17  <gathers> Celestar: just create user "openttd" and configure it to automatically login and start openttd.. I'm not sure why you'd need NIS? :D
13:47:26  <Celestar> gathers: :P
13:47:32  <Celestar> because I'm setting up a file server?
13:48:18  <gathers> won't that reduce your fps?
13:49:06  <Celestar> lol
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13:49:10  <Celestar> I'm uploading at 2.5MB/sec
13:49:30  <XeryusTC> peter1138: because i wanted to update a patch
13:49:38  <XeryusTC> but when i applied it didnt compile
13:49:51  <XeryusTC> so i tried to do an empty one and that worked :)
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13:50:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> a patch to r2514 is VERY likely to not apply properly :)
13:50:19  <XeryusTC> svn couldn't tell the difference between vehicle_gui.h and gui.h :s
13:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> "free train travel for all" <- HEY, let's vote for that party :p
13:52:00  <XeryusTC> it compiles now
13:52:29  <Celestar> hm ..
13:53:26  * XeryusTC updates to latest rev agian :)
13:54:21  <XeryusTC> lol
13:54:24  <XeryusTC> lots of conflicts
13:55:44  <peter1138> as if that's a surprise
13:56:51  <Celestar> Darkvater decided to disappear?
13:58:23  <Born_Acorn> I see him! He is behind the curtains!
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14:00:27  * peter1138 compiles newsounds build
14:02:38  * Celestar throws a few daggers in the direction of the curtains
14:05:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> ouch...
14:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> (wait... i am not even anywhere near curtains ;))
14:06:15  <Born_Acorn> yay peter1138.
14:06:46  <Born_Acorn> Unfortunately, #openttd is in a Curtain warehouse.
14:06:55  <Born_Acorn> it might be a while before Darkvater is found.
14:07:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> argh... i really hate these "damn, i wanted to do something, but i forgot, what" situations!!
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14:10:33  <XeryusTC> i hate it to edit alot of files when your computer is running slow :(
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14:11:20  <RichK67> hi all
14:11:46  <RichK67> Celestar ping
14:12:37  <Celestar> yes?
14:13:35  <RichK67> with new airports, removing district, can i keep district in the code, but commented out?? otherwise i will have to maintain 2 copies
14:14:22  <Belugas> suggestion RichK67 : keep district out, it will be a good test data when loading ariports with newgrf
14:14:28  *** Trippledence [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
14:14:34  <Belugas> that is my two cents idea
14:14:47  <RichK67> commented out, or cut out?
14:14:58  <RichK67> my pref is to comment
14:17:36  <Belugas> Mine is cut.  I hate dead code
14:17:57  <Belugas> Personnal opinion only, open to discussion :)
14:18:06  <Born_Acorn> Which one is the district?
14:18:20  <RichK67> the two long-thin ones; 3x13 and 13x3
14:18:48  <Born_Acorn> ah yes.
14:19:42  <Celestar> RichK67: ask Darkvater :)
14:19:55  <RichK67> lol - great cop out ;)
14:20:29  <Celestar> I'm not a great friend of commented out code actually
14:21:48  <RichK67> okies - i can do; i will have a think about a redesign for that airport - i still want a long (9+) by thin (3)
14:23:42  <XeryusTC> RichK67: do you allow patches that are only kept up to date in the mini_in?
14:25:08  <Celestar> RichK67: one runway then :)
14:28:32  <RichK67> celestar: 2 runways, but a really long taxiway between the two
14:29:06  <RichK67> XeryusTC: once its in the MiniIN, it usually stays up-to-date anyway :)
14:29:12  <RichK67> which patch?
14:29:22  <XeryusTC> the statistics patch
14:29:36  <XeryusTC> gkirilov (or something) requested an update, so i'm updating :)
14:31:39  <RichK67> okies - if it works against trunk, it should be generally ok against MiniIN.... pm me with the patch so I dont forget about it
14:31:54  <XeryusTC> ok :)
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14:42:32  <XeryusTC> it looks like i updated succesfully
14:43:59  * peter1138 ponders allowing for an extra pixel in the depot window
14:44:37  <Belugas> just *one* pixel?????
14:44:42  <peter1138> yes
14:44:48  <XeryusTC> one pixel can make a big difference
14:46:33  * XeryusTC feels like he is promoting
14:47:36  * peter1138 grabs the secret ukrs to test
14:47:42  <RichK67> xeryustc: is the data in the stats patch saved, or is it just from last load?
14:48:29  <XeryusTC> uhm, i think that it saves something in the savegame but i dont know for sure
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14:51:30  <XeryusTC> hmm
14:51:45  <XeryusTC> it looks like this patch has also implemented some newgrf features
14:53:08  <Celestar> apt seems nice
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15:03:52  <Xaroth> RichK67: a 9x4 has more potential :P
15:03:56  <Xaroth> 2 runways :P
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15:06:06  <RichK67> xaroth: there are plenty of x4 airport designs - but few x3. i think it would be good to have one x3. (my commuter is 5x4, and yet has better capacity/service times than the city airport)
15:06:36  <RichK67> xaroth: my plan for a new x3 is still 2 runways
15:06:40  <argonel> hiyas
15:06:53  <Xaroth> O_O how are you going to do that? :o
15:07:03  <peter1138> very long
15:07:14  <RichK67> with cunning and guile ;)
15:07:17  <Xaroth> heh
15:08:55  <argonel> captcha appears broken on the wiki
15:13:06  <RichK67> this could work as a 3x11:
15:13:16  <RichK67> RRRRRrtttttt
15:13:25  <RichK67> iiiiittTTTT
15:13:34  <RichK67> RRRRRoHBBBB
15:13:39  <RichK67> where R is a runway
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15:14:11  <RichK67> r =radar, i=inway, o=outway, H=hangar, B=building, t=taxiway, T=terminal
15:14:21  <Xaroth> ah, small runways
15:15:12  <RichK67> for a longer runway, just add RiR at the left edge
15:15:59  <RichK67> the inway would be split into about 3 sectors to allow some inbound queuing
15:16:38  * peter1138 notes that RichK67 is probably the only person to know how the airports work... ;p
15:16:56  <Dred_furst> Hey
15:17:08  <Celestar> RichK67: suggestion ...
15:17:13  <RichK67> lol - not quite; DV is pretty good :)
15:17:18  <RichK67> yes?
15:17:21  <Celestar>       RUNWAY
15:17:26  <Celestar>      RUNWAY (Takeoff)
15:17:31  <Celestar> TERMINAL/HANGAR
15:18:10  <RichK67> minimum 4 width needd
15:19:15  <RichK67> runway-runway(to)-taxiway-terminals/buildings/hangars etc
15:20:05  <Celestar> hm
15:20:24  <RichK67> the x3 above has the aircraft land over the taxiway (with overshoots going out of the airport). takeoff on the bottom runway
15:20:25  <Celestar> landing_runway-taxiway-buildings+t/o runway
15:20:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> how about this one?
15:20:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> tttttiRRRRRR
15:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> TTTTtoRRRRRR
15:20:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> BBBBtHr
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15:21:24  <Celestar> RichK67: plus have an offset between runways :)
15:21:30  <Celestar> RichK67: how about a crossing-runway airport? :)
15:21:32  <RichK67> so landing & to in opposite directions?
15:21:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah
15:21:47  <argonel> is there somewhere i can send mail re the wiki?
15:21:53  <Celestar> RichK67: in 90°
15:21:53  <RichK67> celestar: np - code can handle it fine
15:21:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> usually, planes go where they came from anyway ;)
15:22:09  <Celestar> normally, landing and takeoff go in the same direction. against the wind
15:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... kay ;)
15:22:25  <Celestar> so     >     =========      >
15:22:35  <Celestar> anything else would be pretty braindead wouldn't it? ;)
15:22:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> but we do not have wind anyway ;)
15:23:00  <Celestar> >     <      ===========
15:23:02  * peter1138 farts on Eddi|zuHause3
15:23:05  <Celestar>  (BOOOM)     =========
15:23:19  <RichK67> Concorde ;)
15:23:26  <Celestar> ;(
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15:23:51  <RichK67> ah - sorry i thought you meant sonic boom
15:23:58  <Celestar> er noo :P
15:24:16  <RichK67> charles de galling
15:24:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> errr... what?
15:25:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> Charles de Gaulle was the guy's name ;)
15:25:16  <RichK67> so would you like a 8x8 with two diagonal (but parallel) runways?
15:25:27  <RichK67> yeah, but the crash was galling
15:25:34  <RichK67> it was a pun on the name
15:25:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> then i just do not know the meaning of galling ;)
15:26:21  <RichK67> sort of "unfortunate in an unpleasant way"
15:27:34  <Celestar> RichK67: that'd be kinda fun
15:27:51  <RichK67> Celestar - it would need a diagonal runway graphic
15:28:02  * Celestar points at gimp
15:28:10  <RichK67> but the aircraft can do it already, just there is no graphic support
15:28:17  <peter1138> can planes land diagonally?
15:28:22  <RichK67> yup
15:28:30  <RichK67> any of the 8 headings
15:28:31  <peter1138> hmm
15:28:45  <peter1138> sounds like ... i need to do newgrf airports
15:29:20  <RichK67> lol - hmmm... using Dalestan's definitions?
15:29:32  <peter1138> using something
15:30:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> dynamic airports need some kind of design restrictions...
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15:31:04  <Celestar> users will lock them up
15:31:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not like train stations, where the only thing that matters is length of the platform
15:31:14  <Celestar> and send of bazillions of savegames to repair
15:31:34  <RichK67> yeah - the current state machines are hard enough!
15:31:42  <peter1138> well
15:31:54  <peter1138> it would still be fixed layouts
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15:31:59  <peter1138> so no change there
15:32:24  <peter1138> getting the design right would be up to the author
15:32:24  <RichK67> peter: i agree we need to do it sometime, but personally i would stall at least until post-0.5.0
15:32:31  <peter1138> yes
15:32:45  <peter1138> i've got newsounds, 2cc, unicode/freetype and... other stuff to complete
15:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> trams/articulated road vehicles
15:33:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> ;)
15:33:21  <RichK67> yeah, ive got TGP, New Airports, Speed Signs, and im *seriously* thinking of doing newindustries
15:33:40  <peter1138> newindustries is already taken ;p
15:33:49  <RichK67> share? ;)
15:33:49  <Celestar> what about integrating TGP peter1138 ?
15:34:11  <RichK67> TGP not ready - ive some nasty bugs to find & kill
15:34:14  <peter1138> Celestar: sounds like a g...
15:34:27  <peter1138> ...ood idea when the bugs are fixed
15:34:33  <RichK67> lol
15:35:05  <RichK67> i need to sort out the guis too - im going to add an expanded interface for the ScenGen side
15:35:07  <Celestar> peter1138: ?
15:35:43  <peter1138> i'm for simplified guis, heh
15:35:48  <peter1138> < damn gnome user ;p
15:36:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> RichK67: did you sort out the "terraform for industry kills city" bug from months ago?
15:36:11  <RichK67> allow you to choose more options; like "generate with newgame options" (ie. plus towns, trees, industries, etc.)
15:36:19  <RichK67> nope - its on my list
15:37:35  <RichK67> i think solution to that one is to check it can terraform an extra tile all-round, then only terraform the middle
15:38:37  <RichK67> ie. check it can do -1 .. +1, then actually terraform 0..0
15:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... but shouldn't the "can terraform" test actually fail if there are buildings around?
15:39:09  <RichK67> yes, it should, but it was a weird one - it was a road tile
15:39:28  <RichK67> just happened to be the town centre tile!
15:39:41  <RichK67> ouch
15:40:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not sure i understand what you mean...
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15:41:22  <RichK67> if the town-centre road tile is lost, the town can never grow
15:41:41  <RichK67> it shouldnt have removed it, but it did
15:41:52  <Celestar> top - 17:41:47 up 2 days,  9:48,  1 user,  load average: 4.89, 5.16, 4.05
15:41:59  <Celestar> I hate this friggen file server
15:42:11  <RichK67> of course, reproducing it is a nightmare
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15:46:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> well... to reproduce, you just need to make the scenario editor behave like TGP when placing industries
15:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> we're still talking about this picture, right?
15:47:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> it was more than just the town tile that has been cleared
15:48:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> it was an entire line of roads
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15:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> and who knows what has been beyond that road
15:48:57  <RichK67> if so, my proposed solution would work
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16:26:05  <Belugas> RichK67, PM
16:26:15  <RichK67> okies
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16:39:10  <peter1138> hay guys
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16:39:18  <peter1138> whose adding teh bool!!!1111!!
16:40:07  <glx> peter1138: you mean sizeof(bool) == 4?
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16:40:28  <peter1138>
16:42:10  <[Shaman]> lol
16:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> adding new road types (road/tram/both) should not be THAT hard?
16:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> i mean... copy-paste the railtypes stuff and rename everything to "road" ;)
16:46:56  <[Shaman]> lol
16:47:09  <peter1138> YEAH!
16:47:22  <peter1138> rename signals to traffic lights
16:47:29  <peter1138> and make everything one way country lanes
16:47:32  <peter1138> brillant idea
16:48:28  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: no, you must see it as having two types of rail on the same tile
16:49:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> Rubidium: no... 3 road types, and each vehicle has 2 compatible road types
16:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> like diesel trains have 2 compatible railtypes (conventional and electric)
16:50:00  <Rubidium> <= then on the junction, there would be a branch for the tram too
16:50:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> so road vehicles get compatible "road+both" and trams get "tram+both"
16:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... ok... that could be a problem ;)
16:51:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> you could store road type for each of the 4 road bits ;)
16:51:19  <Rubidium> that is the easy part
16:51:35  <Rubidium> you need to rewrite parts of the pathfinders
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16:52:28  <peter1138> i don't think it's that much work, tbh
16:52:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> the pathfinder should be really easy
16:54:23  <RichK67> cya bbl
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16:55:56  <XeryusTC> doesn't c allow this: void foo(int bar=0); type of function prototypes?
16:56:12  <gradator> that is c++
16:56:16  <gradator> not c
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16:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> assuming we can find enough space in the map array, i believe the most headaches will be caused by display stuff
16:58:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> not to mention that the catenary looks extremely ugly
17:00:45  <Belugas> map array is quite dense
17:00:59  <Belugas> although tile types are not that much
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17:06:09  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: catenary isn't necessary ;)
17:06:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> i do not know a (modern) tram that does not have catenary ;)
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17:28:35  <glx> Eddi|zuHause3: in Bordeaux (France) the tramway uses a third rail with power in it only when the traw is over it
17:28:54  <glx> but they had lot of problem in the begining
17:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> horse tram ftw ;)
17:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> we need a start year 1850 or something ;)
17:30:25  <peter1138> that's possible
17:30:29  <peter1138> but currently boring ;p
17:31:47  <XeryusTC> is it possible to get the last vehicle that visited the station? (looking at the Station struct)
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17:37:54  <peter1138> no
17:38:02  <peter1138> (it used to be)
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18:14:17  <Belugas> ARggghhhh!!1 I'm contaminated "Import Chsnges from Trunk".  That is in "Visual Source Safe" at work :S
18:17:04  <Belugas> as in  : we do not have the notion of trunk in here
18:18:14  <XeryusTC> i have a question, as i was updating this old patch i came across a global variable named _map5 but it was removed, what is it called now?
18:18:37  <XeryusTC> i tried _m->m5 but that gives an error when i try to compile
18:18:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> you want to look for the appropriate map accessor function
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18:19:27  <Belugas> or use _m[tilenumber].m5
18:19:38  <Belugas> but ... bad approach
18:20:27  <XeryusTC> it works, ty :)
18:22:01  <Belugas> but, as Eddi|zuHause mentionned, try appropriate accessor, please
18:22:30  <Belugas> what are you using it for?
18:25:20  <XeryusTC> I'm updating the station statistics patch
18:25:42  <XeryusTC> last time it was updated was r2514 :s
18:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what exactly it does, but you might be better off with a rewrite ;)
18:27:53  <XeryusTC> it would be really usefull if there was a list of names that have changed over time in the documentation
18:28:35  <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause: probably wont happen because 1. someone just requested an update 2. i don't feel like doing it 3. i don't have time for it
18:28:47  <Belugas> there is one, in the tfc_newmap branch.  But it does not correspond exactly to trunk
18:30:43  <Belugas> it is in docs/landscape.html.  In the many projects that are dusting on my desk, there is an update of landsacpe.html
18:30:53  <Belugas> one day, i might dig it up
18:31:02  <Belugas> in a century or two ;)
18:31:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what i was trying to say was: taking a more abstract development stage and reimplementing the last step might be faster than updating the horribly outdated implementation
18:31:33  <peter1138> is lord Darkvater around?
18:33:32  <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause: the .diff file is 103kb, says enough about how much it is to code
18:33:34  <Belugas> Have not seen his cape floating around for quite a while, Master
18:34:04  <peter1138>
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18:36:01  <Belugas> I can't decide between admiration and suspicion
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18:39:13  <MeusH> hi
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18:50:26  <Born_Acorn> peter1138, he is quite upset at not being able to fox hunt.
18:52:47  <Brianetta> npf.c: In function 'NPFRouteToDepotTrialError':
18:52:47  <Brianetta> Five warnings on Linux build
18:53:14  <Brianetta> Uninitialised variable warnings all
18:57:48  <peter1138> yes, all "wrong"
18:58:03  <Brianetta> na ja
18:58:10  <Brianetta> st00pid compiler (:
18:58:28  <peter1138> it just doesn't know :)
19:01:12  * KUDr needs to consult proper penalties for too long or too short station platforms <-- any ideas?
19:01:39  <Brianetta> KUDr: Two trains of thought
19:01:56  <KUDr> two trains?
19:02:46  <Brianetta> of thought
19:02:50  <Brianetta> 1.
19:03:41  <Brianetta> Huge penalties because you have to carry everything from carriage to carriage to all wagons off the end of the platform.  Definitely more likely with passengers, who have to walk down to inaccessible carriages by the aisle.
19:03:43  <Brianetta> 2.
19:04:10  <Brianetta> Minor penalties, based on the premise that a train can move forward and bring each part of the train to the platform.  More the case for freight.
19:05:15  <Brianetta> In the second case, the penalty would be platform length / train length
19:05:40  <Brianetta> rounded upy to the next integer
19:05:58  <KUDr> cannot it be both from train/station length only?
19:06:00  <Brianetta> er, train length / platform length
19:06:03  <Brianetta> d'Oh
19:06:29  <KUDr> aha, hmm
19:06:57  <KUDr> i have it done so, that for each missing or redundant platform lengths there can be a constant
19:07:08  <Brianetta> That's better for case 1
19:07:08  <KUDr> and need that constans (default values)
19:07:14  <Brianetta> which TT did originally
19:07:45  <Brianetta> I don't know what the current wait algorith was, but an early TTDAlter "improved loading time" setting was to switch to case 2
19:08:01  <Brianetta> Then I was off the scene for 8 years or so
19:08:19  <KUDr> hmm
19:08:49  <KUDr> i don't like to change it to some super-logic
19:09:01  <KUDr> simple penalties should be enough
19:09:57  <KUDr> i just don't know if like 10 tiles for redundant tile would be ok
19:10:06  <KUDr> or 20 tiles for missing tile
19:11:19  <KUDr> and then how to add settings into Patches - if to increase savegame revision or make it not saved for single player
19:13:17  <KUDr> or is it so bad?
19:13:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i think you got your wires crossed somewhat... KUDr does not want to talk about loading time, just for the pathfinder choosing the right platform
19:14:07  <KUDr> yes
19:14:21  <KUDr> looks so
19:14:46  <KUDr> loading time can change by time
19:15:09  <KUDr> and choosing right platform is problem of user preferences
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19:18:42  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause: your opinions?
19:20:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure
19:21:08  <Eddi|zuHause> for too long platforms, the penalty should not be too high
19:21:36  <Eddi|zuHause> for too short platforms, the penalty should be pretty high, but not higher than last red signal penalty
19:22:30  <KUDr> last red is 10 or 100 tiles (normal or exit signal)
19:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> (or maybe it should be higher?)
19:22:53  <KUDr> no idea
19:23:16  <KUDr> never used such optimizations (choosing right platform)
19:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> well... if a train chooses a short track, because all long tracks are red, it may block the junction for quite a while
19:24:03  <KUDr> yes
19:24:19  <KUDr> so it should be quite high, right
19:24:26  <anboni> it should be high enough that with the first platform being too short and the 12th platform only being long enough, the pathfinder would pick the 12th platform if it's free :)
19:25:02  <KUDr> anboni: but what if it is not free?
19:25:15  <anboni> then pick the next longest platform
19:25:43  <KUDr> but then it can block more platforms
19:25:52  <KUDr> by blocking junction
19:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the average player will want to prevent trains from ever going to a too short platform
19:26:05  <anboni> true, but if it were going to wait for the entry signal, it would probably block most stuff as well
19:26:32  <KUDr> it depends on station design then
19:26:33  <anboni> (unless there's multiple entrances, but someone doing that would most likely take care to make all platforms long enough in the first palce)
19:26:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, we need proper entry signals anyway... that is out of the question ;)
19:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause> which is another reason to make the penalty higher, if we do get better signals, the train stops at the entry signal, because the exit signal(s) of choice is/are all red
19:27:39  <KUDr> so 10 tiles for each redundant tile and 100 tiles for each missing tile?
19:27:44  <anboni> and, to be brutally honest, if someone makes his trains longer than his stations and doesnt account for this in the rest of the station design, he deserves to have his junctions jam :)
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19:28:05  <RichK67> hi all
19:28:09  <KUDr> hi
19:28:15  <anboni> KUDr, that's probably a nice starting point
19:28:16  <anboni> hi
19:28:19  <RichK67> Darkvater ping
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19:28:54  <anboni> wow.. few commits today
19:29:18  <RichK67> hopefully one new one coming up... just need DV to say "yes" ;)
19:29:41  <XeryusTC> RichK67: my patch is basicly finished, there are only some problems with deleted functions
19:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well... the scenario i have in mind is: a short (end) platform for a local train that goes back and forth, and a few long (passthrough) platforms for overregional and intercity trains
19:29:59  <RichK67> yeah, a lot got renamed
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19:30:44  <XeryusTC> i noticed
19:31:16  * XeryusTC thinks that the documentation should hold such information
19:31:17  <RichK67> it would have been good if a list was made of "functionX" is now called "functionY"
19:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause> which would additionally require the pathfinder to take in account a path for the next station in the list before deciding the platform on this station
19:31:32  <anboni> Eddi|zuHause, in a situation like that you'd want the shorter trains to actually pick the short platform if it's available, regardless of the distance from junction entrance to platform entrance
19:32:05  <anboni> so that would probably mean the penalty for too long platforms should increase a bit over the 10 we said above
19:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> so a passthrough train will never choose the end platform
19:32:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe it was meant to be 10 per tile
19:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so if the train has 2 tiles length, and the other platforms have 5 tiles length
19:33:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it is 3*10 penalty
19:33:13  <KUDr> yes, per tile
19:33:24  <KUDr> per redundant tile
19:33:28  <Eddi|zuHause> which is 30 tiles, and that is pretty damn long ;)
19:33:32  <anboni> yeah, i understand that.. but a regular track tile is 70, and a diagonal 100, right?
19:33:44  <KUDr> nonono
19:33:47  <anboni> ooh wait, i get it now
19:33:48  <KUDr> 10 tiles
19:34:00  <KUDr> unit is tile
19:34:07  <KUDr> for us now
19:34:26  <anboni> yeah, so for the 3*10 penalty, that would be 30*70 actual points added?
19:34:37  <RichK67> Celestar ping
19:34:39  <KUDr> why 70?
19:34:49  <anboni> wasn't that the cost for straight track?
19:35:05  <KUDr> aha, but stations are diagonal
19:35:16  <anboni> they are?
19:35:20  <KUDr> and normal direction is also diagonal
19:35:27  <KUDr> there is tile = 100 units
19:36:00  <KUDr> stations are like NE-SW or NW-SE
19:36:08  <Eddi|zuHause> there should really be a standardizised definition of words like "north" and "diagonal" ;)
19:36:14  <Eddi|zuHause> everyone uses them differently ;)
19:36:23  <Eddi|zuHause> which makes communication harder
19:36:33  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause: there are - in the code
19:36:33  <anboni> yeah, i consider diagonal the tracks that leave the tile in a different direction than they enter :)
19:36:44  <KUDr> no
19:37:08  <KUDr> if you read the code you get the logic the author used
19:37:20  <anboni> yeah, i guess i should start on that some more
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19:37:43  <KUDr> NE is top left corner of screen
19:37:49  <KUDr> NW
19:37:52  <KUDr> sorry
19:38:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it is a problem of relativity...
19:38:14  <KUDr> heh
19:38:16  <anboni> ok yeah, it's starting to make sense now :)
19:38:22  <Eddi|zuHause> do you mean "diagonal" relative to the screen, or relative to the map grid
19:38:35  <KUDr> screen i guess
19:38:37  <Eddi|zuHause> both versions are perfectly valid
19:38:43  <KUDr> so it is named in the code
19:38:45  <Eddi|zuHause> while they end up with the exact opposite
19:38:53  <KUDr> DiagDirection for example
19:39:01  <anboni> actually, relative to the screen is the only valid way of describing it, since that's how it was coded :)
19:39:11  <KUDr> yes
19:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause> but the average user has no clue about how it was coded
19:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause> but he does see the map grid
19:39:38  <KUDr> i need to think in the same relations as the code is made
19:39:54  <anboni> but anyone joining in coding-related discussions in this channel isn't "the average user" :)
19:40:07  <KUDr> yes, so sorry for that
19:40:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but most of them started as such... and thus are already used to whatever interpretation they came up with ;)
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19:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> it is no big problem, just before you start discussing, you have to sync all those definitions, otherwise the results can be nasty ;)
19:41:26  <anboni> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, you're probably right about that... i'm probably in the lucky position that i never before tried to communicate about those directions.. and i dont use them in my mind while building track either :)
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19:46:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the real problem is, whenever you want to standardizise such a definition, you will find it impossible to explain to one side, why the other side's definition is more appropriate... no matter which side you chose ;)
19:47:09  <anboni> between coders (and wannabe coders, like myself :) ) there's only one right side: the code's :)
19:47:44  <anboni> from direction.h:       DIR_NE  = 1,      /* Northeast, upper right on your monitor */
19:48:29  <anboni> (just be glad it isn't possible to rotate the view.. now THAT would make for some definition nightmares :) )
19:48:56  <glx> easy way: diagonal tracks are the ones that can cross a road
19:49:24  <anboni> i guess that would work, at least until a new map array gets invented :)
19:51:49  <Eddi|zuHause> anboni: but i, as a professional non-coder (you may call that theoretical computer scientist :)) want to stay as far away from the code as possible
19:52:36  <anboni> Eddi|zuHause, fair enough, but if you wanna talk about anything touching on code, you'd better still use the definitions as learned from the code :)
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20:09:34  * valhallasw bounces around
20:09:49  * valhallasw is ready with his final exams \o/
20:10:15  <anboni> now the big wait starts :)
20:12:49  <valhallasw> yah
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20:40:38  <anboni> i have a (tiny) patch to submit which will make the main toolbar position honor the patch setting at game start or load.. how do i go about getting this checked out?:)
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20:41:37  <anboni> ("checked out" as in "verified by a dev", not svn checked out :) )
20:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> post it on flyspray
20:43:29  <Eddi|zuHause> and then bug the devs here ;)
20:43:54  <anboni> well.. i already posted the issue on flyspray, but looks like nobody ever touched it so far :)
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20:45:37  <glx> anboni: so post comment in flyspray and attach your patch
20:45:52  <anboni> ok, will do that
20:46:15  <glx> in the same task :)
20:47:44  <anboni> but how often do devs look at that stuff? the status of my initial report is still "Unconfirmed", after 3 weeks or so (granted, i did set it to 'very low' severity :) )
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20:52:12  <Belugas_Gone> 'night
20:52:17  <anboni> night
21:01:03  <CIA-3> KUDr * r5065 /trunk/yapf/ (yapf_costrail.hpp yapf_destrail.hpp): -CodeChange: [YAPF] Added PfDetectDestination(tile, trackdir) for trains (to be used by platform selection feature)
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21:08:00  <Born_Acorn> ooh, is that for things like 2 car DMUs picking 1 tile platforms as opposed to the 5 tile platform next door?
21:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is, what we were discussing today...
21:10:51  <peter1138> \o/
21:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause> btw... KUDr... you might look into how that might be combined with multistop
21:11:20  <Eddi|zuHause> for RV
21:11:30  <KUDr> uhh
21:11:39  <Eddi|zuHause> (far future :))
21:11:42  <KUDr> can't imagine how
21:13:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well... the tasks "choose right platform" and "choose right road stop" look pretty similar from the outside ;) (although both have different criteria)
21:14:20  <KUDr> yes, also different algo
21:14:48  <KUDr> and implemented in different layers (controller vs. pathfinder)
21:15:31  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... but i really think it can and should be somehow combined
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21:23:38  <roboman> gmorning
21:27:13  <roboman> bye
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21:30:16  <MYOB> 2048*2048 maps + autosave = bad idea
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21:35:57  <peter1138> hehh
21:37:29  <Darkvater> and /me is home
21:37:34  <Darkvater> heh
21:37:41  <MeusH> welcome back
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21:39:37  <CIA-3> KUDr * r5066 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Feature: [YAPF] Train selects the best station platform by length
21:40:14  <yanek> oh! great!
21:40:23  <KUDr> try it!
21:41:09  <yanek> of course, i know where ;-)
21:41:18  <KUDr> good
21:45:43  <Eddi|zuHause> next step: take into account path to next station (including penalty for turning around)
21:46:05  *** Angst [] has quit ["gn"]
21:46:34  <Darkvater> I seem to have been quite wanted today
21:46:40  <Darkvater> I counted at least 10 pings
21:46:43  <Darkvater> :)
21:46:59  <Darkvater> including about 6 by Celestar about some kind of an opinion I'm supposed to have ;)
21:47:30  <peter1138> Darkvater:
21:47:41  <peter1138> (see my attachment)
21:47:44  <peter1138> now: sleep
21:48:02  <Darkvater> yes sir
21:48:07  * Darkvater goes to bed duefully
21:48:36  <Darkvater> peter1138: ah that'll have to wait for the weekend I'm afraid
21:49:09  <KUDr> [23:45:42] <Eddi|zuHause> next step: take into account path to next station (including penalty for turning around) -> this would be very CPU expensive
21:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause> hmm... yeah, it can probably live with some approximations...
21:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause> or heuristics
21:50:27  <Eddi|zuHause> not quite sure which though...
21:50:31  <KUDr> how? by air distance?
21:50:59  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that might be too easy :)
21:51:04  <KUDr> you have waypoints for that
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21:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i think this can be optimized very much by using cached values
21:53:35  <Eddi|zuHause> because you do not need to dynamically apply signal states and stuff
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21:57:27  <Eddi|zuHause> better than plain air distance might be looking ahead a few (10?) tiles with BFS and then air distance
22:00:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but i'
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22:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> m not sure if that is less CPU intensive
22:00:22  <Eddi|zuHause> than just searching the path ;)
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22:03:14  <Eddi|zuHause> but the BFS result (set of reachable "exit" tiles) can easily be cached for each platform
22:03:23  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-213-249-247-200.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:04:41  <Eddi|zuHause> because it only changes when the user changes the local track layout
22:04:54  <KUDr> BFS?
22:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause> Breadth First Search
22:05:21  <KUDr> hmmm
22:05:34  <KUDr> it would be overcombined
22:05:44  <KUDr> nobody would understand that
22:05:56  <Sacro> evening all
22:06:08  <KUDr> doing such think only for fine tunning is not good for any software
22:06:26  <KUDr> hi Sacro
22:06:44  <Sacro> hey KUDr
22:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well... it was the most simple algorithm i could think about right now ;=
22:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause> (or is it 'simplest'?)
22:07:27  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause: this is difference between coder and theoretical sw consultant
22:07:50  <KUDr> i agree that from functionality point of view it would be the best
22:08:10  <KUDr> but i must take into consideration also other aspects
22:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, sure
22:08:53  <KUDr> (hmm: most simple == simplest i guess)
22:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause> it was just a more or less random thought ;)
22:09:31  <Eddi|zuHause> well.. english has very strict rules about when to use 'most' and '-est'
22:10:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i just always forget them ;)
22:10:25  <KUDr> my lang is czech
22:10:35  <KUDr> so i can't tell
22:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause> well... english isn't my mother language either
22:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause> my czech does not go much beyond "ahoi" and "dobre" ;)
22:14:53  <Sacro> yeah, most simple and simplest are interchangeable
22:15:06  <Sacro> use whichevers most simple/simplest :)
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22:20:43  <CIA-3> KUDr * r5067 /trunk/ (settings.c yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp): -Codechange: [YAPF] Platform selection feature now applies penalty per platform instead of per tile (should give better results)
22:20:53  *** Brianetta [] has quit ["Tschüß"]
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22:22:19  * KUDr -> bed (good night)
22:23:04  * Sacro say(goodnight)->KUDr
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22:34:02  <MeusH> cya
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23:21:08  * Sacro sits drawing D Stock
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23:22:00  <MYOB> mentioning drawing stock... are there freely stealable grfs or BREL MkII and MkIII stock around?
23:23:31  *** Sionide [] has quit ["/quit"]
23:23:52  <MYOB> it would leave me with only... oh... every loco, something like 9 classes of D/EMU, CIE MK1 and MK4 coaches, brake vans and travelling post offices to draw...
23:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause> this does not parse
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23:29:11  <Sacro> i dunno, but im confused totally
23:30:11  <MYOB> confused by what?
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23:34:17  <Sacro> MYOB: just life in general
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23:37:13  <MYOB2> anyway, before my machine dumped me.....
23:37:16  <MYOB2> anyway, before my machine dumped me.....
23:37:18  <MYOB2> erm
23:37:24  <MYOB2> surely someone did a graphics set with British Rail coaches?
23:37:39  <Sacro> yeah, think PikkaBirds UKRS does
23:37:45  <Sacro> or maybe could be BRSet actually
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23:38:25  *** MYOB2 is now known as MYOB
23:38:42  <MYOB> because I want to find one where I can swipe the Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaches
23:38:52  <MYOB> as it'll save me having to do them for an Irish Rail set
23:40:00  * valhallasw dances around with Sacro
23:40:43  <MYOB> I might just wait till the new graphics midn
23:44:11  <Sacro> valhallasw:  any reason?
23:44:31  <Bjarni> Sacro: maybe he wants to dance with you
23:44:37  <Sacro> Bjarni: well, maybe
23:44:42  <Bjarni> and maybe he wants to do more than that with you
23:44:57  <valhallasw> Sacro: exams
23:45:00  <valhallasw> possibly
23:45:40  <Sacro> valhallasw: hmm
23:45:49  <Sacro> how high should the - view be?
23:45:50  <Bjarni> valhallasw: I don't think Sacro is a good token of luck for exams
23:46:07  <MYOB> right, the next time the girlfriend claims I have too many satellite dishes...
23:46:52  <valhallasw> like
23:46:55  <valhallasw> examns are done
23:46:57  <valhallasw> finito
23:46:59  <valhallasw> etc
23:47:15  <Sacro> Bjarni: cheers
23:47:20  <Bjarni> MYOB: well, I think he use them for more than just TV
23:47:36  <valhallasw> but hey
23:47:41  *** valhallasw is now known as valhallazzzw
23:47:42  <Bjarni> but then again, I didn't bother too read the text :P
23:47:43  <MYOB> Bjarni doesn't look like it
23:47:44  <valhallazzzw> I'm going to bed
23:47:54  <valhallazzzw> and no, I don't want Sacro there :X
23:48:00  <MYOB> considering he shows what appears to be 5,000 euro of satellite TV/radio decoders
23:49:23  <Sacro> valhallazzzw: im glad
23:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause> lol... he pretty much has a reciever/tv in every room :)
23:54:03  <Bjarni> the most fun I got from satelites was when I watched ISS moving over the sky
23:54:47  <Bjarni> that glowing dot. It looked a bit like a star, but it was brighter and bigger
23:54:52  <Bjarni> and it was man made
23:55:46  <Eddi|zuHause> "Ohne Receiver so etwa 3T bis 4T Euro.
23:56:01  <Eddi|zuHause> the value of his equipment
23:56:03  <Bjarni> o_O
23:56:21  <Bjarni> I would never pay so much for something like that
23:56:52  <MYOB> hrm, I was a bit off on the valuation
23:57:06  <MYOB> but then again, Dreamboxes are cheaper in Germany than here
23:57:58  <Bjarni> I would not even know the price here
23:59:48  * Sacro needs a girl

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