Log for #openttd on 6th June 2006:
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01:36:50  <Belugas> progressing !
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04:32:55  <lws1984> good night all
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04:57:31  <roboman> hello
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08:09:32  <Darkvater> morning
08:09:37  <Darkvater> dammit, no bjarni
08:10:49  <TinoM> morning...
08:11:46  <Darkvater> morn'
08:12:08  <Darkvater>
08:12:24  <Darkvater> cool, quite Geforce 7600GT card...only ~150$
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08:16:33  <peter1138> pikka's planes show flaps ^^
08:17:02  <Darkvater> :)
08:17:22  <peter1138> it's in some strange language
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08:18:42  <peter1138> Microsoft Visual Studio (Not Responding)
08:18:43  <peter1138> o_O
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08:19:18  <Darkvater> peter1138: I've had a little thought about autoreplace and the maximum train-length
08:19:50  <Darkvater> peter1138: we have to look at the extreme case where we build the longest (physically) possible train length (128 units or whatever)
08:20:21  <Darkvater> peter1138: if we autoreplace that with a dual-headed train, what should happen? Regardless of the remove-wagons patch setting
08:20:29  <Darkvater> we have two choices
08:20:41  <Darkvater> 1. totally fail autoreplace (almost like it is now)
08:20:42  <Darkvater> or
08:21:01  <Darkvater> 2. remove wagons (irrespective of the above patch setting) until it fits
08:21:09  <Darkvater> 3. there are no other choices
08:21:26  <peter1138> well, i've done a patch for 1
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08:22:11  <peter1138> i think remove wagons should only happen with the remove-wagons options (it's not a patch setting, is it?)
08:22:24  <Darkvater> it is a patch setting
08:22:28  <peter1138> hmm
08:22:28  <Darkvater> it should be consistent
08:22:43  <peter1138> oh, yeah
08:22:43  <peter1138> hm
08:22:45  <peter1138> well anyway
08:22:58  <Darkvater> so what to do with the scenario I just said ?
08:23:18  <peter1138> removing the wagons requires either another removal loop, or tweaking the move command to allow it to overflow
08:23:54  <peter1138> why should it *not* depend on the wagon removal setting?
08:24:10  <peter1138> making it fail is easy, but bjarni doesn't like it
08:24:43  <Darkvater> well it's either 1 or 2
08:24:58  <peter1138> ...
08:24:59  <Darkvater> for all I care it can fail, but it should also fail if the maximum train length is set to 10 for example
08:25:05  <peter1138> 1 if wagon replace off
08:25:08  <peter1138> 2 if wagon replace on
08:25:12  <peter1138> err, removal
08:26:12  <Darkvater> so the extreme case should fail (totally) with wagon-removal off?
08:26:17  <peter1138> yes
08:26:35  <peter1138> so you are left with the old train that still works
08:26:56  <Darkvater> well, possible as well. But I don't want a mish-mash of behaviour depending on some arbitrary rule
08:27:10  <peter1138> i think wagon removal is a very clear rule
08:28:03  <Darkvater> ok I can live with that
08:28:14  <Darkvater> now to force it upon Bjarni ;)
08:28:33  <peter1138> i think bjarni wants both parts to count as one
08:29:10  <Darkvater> but they don't count as one
08:29:13  <Darkvater> never did
08:29:26  <peter1138> the don't, no, but they could
08:29:42  <Darkvater> but they don't :)
08:29:50  <peter1138> heh
08:30:23  <peter1138> articulated engines also only count as one, but that could be changed
08:30:57  <peter1138> actually i think it should stay, as mostly it's used for tenders or for joining parts up to make a longer engine
08:31:32  <peter1138> is my patch to make replacement fail
08:31:51  <Darkvater> well that is something totally different than a dual-headed engine imho
08:31:55  <Darkvater> we'll wait for bjarni
08:32:00  <peter1138> yeah
08:32:05  <peter1138> however
08:32:15  <peter1138> it can also be used to make fixed consist trains
08:32:18  <peter1138> trams uses it like that
08:32:45  <peter1138> there's no real way to tell the difference though, heh
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08:39:58  <Darkvater> WTF?
08:40:03  <Darkvater> Error: NewGRF file missing: notexists.grf
08:40:19  <Darkvater> oh, heh in openttd.cfg
08:43:31  <peter1138> ...
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09:01:35  <peter1138> ===> Generating table/strings.h
09:01:36  <peter1138> lang/english.txt:333: FATAL: Invalid UTF-8 sequence at '?'
09:01:38  <peter1138> yay
09:03:38  <peter1138> problem is, i can't change the lang files from latin-15 to utf-8
09:03:51  <peter1138> 1) the diff's massive
09:03:59  <peter1138> 2) syncing...
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09:09:15  <Darkvater> whohoo :)
09:11:29  <peter1138> hmm?
09:11:51  <Darkvater> UTF-8 :)
09:22:40  <peter1138> this ms .net documentation SUCKS
09:22:47  <peter1138> string.IndexOfAny()
09:23:03  <peter1138> "Reports the index of the first occurrence in this instance of any character in a specified array of Unicode characters."
09:23:18  <peter1138> and what if there is no match, huh?
09:23:28  <Darkvater> nullexception? :P
09:23:38  <peter1138> (probably a negative number, but i shouldn't have to assume)
09:23:39  <Darkvater> I think it returns -1
09:24:21  <Darkvater> yeah -1
09:26:40  <Darkvater> int foundPos = -1; // -1 represents not found
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09:27:33  <hylje> no such file
09:32:51  <peter1138> hmm, i need to implement sound effect priority
09:33:02  <peter1138> with running sounds going on, there're a little too many :)
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09:35:28  <Darkvater> :)
09:39:04  <hylje> shouldnt newsounds have 3d sound
09:39:43  <peter1138> ...
09:39:51  <Celestar> ok guys, I'll be offline a couple of days because we just got 250kEUR for a new cluster and server infrastructure and that'll take my attention a little
09:40:15  <Celestar> <= xosview isn't made for big servers.
09:40:18  <peter1138> openttd cluster? :D
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09:40:42  <Celestar> er... no
09:40:43  <peter1138> hehe
09:40:51  <Darkvater> Celestar: !!
09:41:01  <Celestar> about openttd .. we needa improve the performance of the fileserver
09:41:03  <Celestar> me->food
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09:54:01  <peter1138> Darkvater: i left it at home, but i made a patch that detects the file type when using -g
09:54:14  <peter1138> currently it only loads .sav/.scn, not .sv?
09:54:40  <Darkvater> .sav/.scn
09:54:44  <Darkvater> we don't have .sv
09:54:52  <peter1138> Darkvater: oldloader
09:54:57  <peter1138> .sv0/1/2
09:55:03  <Darkvater> that
09:55:13  <peter1138> 'twas a wildcard ;)
09:55:31  <peter1138> i also changed it so that -g isn't needed to load a game
09:55:33  <Darkvater> hmm loading scenarios... would that behaviour start a new game with the current difficulty settings with that given scenario?
09:55:41  <Darkvater> he, i see you read the forum
09:55:42  <peter1138> so drag & drop can work easily
09:55:45  <peter1138> yus
09:55:53  <Darkvater> with -g %1 it works easily as well
09:55:54  <Darkvater> but ok
09:56:01  <peter1138> not directly on the exe, heh
09:56:06  <peter1138> also
09:56:21  <peter1138> if you only have one shortcut, you'll always start a new game
09:56:31  <peter1138> (if you don't drag)
09:58:08  <peter1138> as for loading scenarios, i don't know which it will do
09:59:55  <Darkvater> in windows if I drag a file to an exe it starts that exe? never knew
10:00:28  <Xaroth> ye it does
10:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause> you learn something every day ;)
10:00:43  <Xaroth> it'll start "<exefile> <file dropped onto it>"
10:01:01  <Darkvater> ah nice
10:01:20  <Darkvater> peter1138: it should start a new game with that scenario. Which is in fact which it already does I think, but it's load-game
10:01:36  <Darkvater> but if you have code that distinguishes it can do StartScneario() or whatever it's alled
10:02:13  <peter1138> hmm
10:02:35  <peter1138> it only sets _file_to_saveload.mode
10:03:20  <peter1138> i didn't test it with scenarios though... i don't really like them
10:03:31  <Darkvater> I think it should also set _game_mode
10:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause> there should be options to start a scenario with random towns/industries
10:04:32  <Eddi|zuHause> if you just created an empty map
10:04:53  <peter1138> Darkvater: instead of _switch_mode ?
10:05:03  <Darkvater> hmm, or that
10:05:06  <Darkvater> I always mix'em up
10:05:16  <peter1138> well, it uses _switch_mode already, so i didn't change that
10:05:27  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: yeah
10:05:34  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause: that's the bit i don't like :)
10:05:43  <peter1138> but also, you can't have just a plain map scenario, can you?
10:06:05  <peter1138> you can't play a scenario with no towns :(
10:07:36  <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be that difficult to detect that there are no towns, and then start the function that generates them...
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10:11:22  <Darkvater> < going home
10:12:55  <peter1138> by
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10:49:30  <peter1138> mixer.c:93-100 ...
10:49:48  <SpComb> me puts the frog in the mixer
10:50:15  <SpComb> openttd is in smelly C, boo
10:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause> "what is green and turns red when you push the button?" ;)
10:51:10  <lws1984> traffic lights
10:51:19  <lws1984> if you hack the system ;)
10:51:40  <peter1138> or just press the button
10:51:54  <peter1138> generally a bit easier
10:52:20  <peter1138> unless you mean when and only when the button is pressed
10:52:21  <peter1138> hmm
10:52:24  <peter1138> that'd be fun
10:52:33  <lws1984> aye, buttons are quite fun
10:52:35  <lws1984> heh...
10:53:06  <lws1984> well, i have a light that will cycle from green to red when i push the button
10:53:15  <lws1984> then to blue, green, yellow, etc.
10:54:04  <Eddi|zuHause> why is that... when anybody mentions "push the button", i think of lost?
10:54:32  <peter1138> lost?
10:54:36  <lws1984> push ze buuton, monseiur
10:54:48  <lws1984> peter1138: the tv show, me thinks
10:54:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that one ;)
10:55:07  <peter1138> never seen it
10:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> it's crazy ;)
10:55:46  <Eddi|zuHause> whenever you think you know how the story goes on, it totally turns around :)
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11:12:22  <RichK67> Darkvater ping
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11:25:46  <peter1138> he went home
11:26:20  <RichK67> okies - ive posted what i hope is the final version of newairports to him
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12:00:17  <roboman> hello
12:18:40  <roboman> gnight
12:19:06  <Eddi|zuHause> am i reading that correctly: there is a 12/256 chance that ha house does not get rebuilt?
12:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause> 		// rebuild with another house?
12:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause> 		if (GB(r, 24, 8) >= 12) DoBuildTownHouse(t, tile);
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12:19:16  <Eddi|zuHause> -h
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12:25:03  <Trenskow> i was looking at the final layout for the new map array
12:25:33  <Trenskow> is the Tile struct gonna be used for underground tracks too?
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12:27:52  <Trenskow> well there isn't any devs online ?
12:28:20  <Trenskow> anyhow. How about making the renderer render at at certain level
12:28:32  <Trenskow> so you can select witch level you max wanna see
12:28:48  <Trenskow> then being able to create stations, tracks, signals etc. underground
12:29:09  <Trenskow> using the conventional tools
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12:29:40  <Trenskow> and also maybe, in a vehicle window, make it render the level the vehicle is currently located at
12:29:51  <Trenskow> so you'll be able to follow them underground
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12:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there needs to be more to this than just adding an underground level
12:34:37  <Trenskow> ok... just a thought
12:34:58  <Trenskow> think it would be the ideal way to build it
12:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause> because if you just have one underground level, that needs to be 1 level below ground... that is not realistic, e.g. if you want to build a tunnel through a mountain
12:35:39  <Trenskow> yea yea i know... there must be more than one level
12:35:49  <Darkvater> peter1138: still about autoreplace
12:36:44  <Darkvater> peter1138: in your replace patch, what is the behaviour if I am at maximum train length with wagon-removal on and I switch to dual-headed?
12:38:24  <Trenskow> Darkvater, what's your comment on my question?
12:38:27  <Trenskow> i would like to hear
12:38:30  <Trenskow> :)
12:38:31  <Darkvater> what question?
12:38:45  <Trenskow> just joined?
12:38:50  <Darkvater> just got back
12:38:53  <Darkvater> lemme backread
12:39:01  <Trenskow> k
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12:40:59  <Darkvater> hmm, sounds pretty futile to me, especially regarding that fact that we don't have any "levels"
12:41:01  <Trenskow> as i see the  Tile struct, theres is the possibility of multiple levels under/over ground level
12:41:07  <Darkvater> except if you want to call bridges that
12:41:12  <Trenskow> yes i do
12:41:14  <Trenskow> and tunnels
12:41:21  <Darkvater> we don't have tunnels
12:41:29  <Trenskow> so instead of tunnels, just tracks at a "level"
12:41:31  <Trenskow> ahh ok
12:41:47  <Darkvater> tunnels are: Entrance> .... *magic* ... <Exit
12:42:39  <Trenskow> i just thought that creating underground tracks instead of tunnels, would be great
12:42:48  <Trenskow> then you could create signals, stations etc underground too
12:42:51  <Darkvater> or: Entrance> ... *insert favourite hypercubetransportteletransferportdevice here* ... <Exit
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12:43:31  <Darkvater> Trenskow: I presume you are looking at the map rewrite? That would allow for such things, but it's a bit off
12:43:42  <Trenskow> Darkvater, yes
12:44:06  <Darkvater> for the map rewrite branch there already was some sort of slice-tool that only rendered at a max-level
12:44:23  <Trenskow> Darkvater, nice... just was i was thinking
12:46:27  <Trenskow> Darkvater, will be looking so much forward to the new map array :D
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12:48:14  <Darkvater> :)
12:48:16  <Darkvater> who doesn't ;)
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12:50:00  <Sacro> afternoon all
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12:54:54  <Belugas> Good day
12:55:21  <Sacro> good day Belugas
12:55:40  <Darkvater> ey
12:57:11  <Belugas> hello boys
12:59:27  <Sacro> hello
12:59:40  <peter1138> Darkvater: re autoreplace, with that patch it still fails with wagon removal on
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12:59:54  <Darkvater> peter1138: that is not good :)
13:00:12  <Darkvater> I think you mean it fails under every circumstance
13:00:12  <peter1138> reason: either extra code is needed or the move command needs to be told to ignore the limit for the duration of the autoreplace
13:00:31  <Darkvater> how can you ignore the physical limit?
13:00:39  <peter1138> it's a part solution, i know that :P
13:01:02  <peter1138> how? by not doing a check...
13:01:45  <Darkvater> but then the command needs to go into the workaround-bin
13:01:50  <peter1138> yes
13:01:51  <peter1138> exactly
13:01:53  <Darkvater> like cmdremovelongroad, etc.
13:01:56  <peter1138> hence i didn't do it
13:02:19  <Darkvater> but you agree with me that
13:02:21  <Darkvater> 14:59 <@peter1138> Darkvater: re autoreplace, with that patch it still fails with wagon removal on
13:02:24  <Darkvater> is bad
13:02:26  <peter1138> yes i know
13:02:53  <peter1138> sorry, i didn't for it to be a final solution
13:02:58  <Darkvater> :)
13:03:01  <peter1138> just part way to the goal
13:03:13  <peter1138> and
13:03:30  <peter1138> i still think that is better than leaving the wagons in the depot with an empty engine roaming around
13:04:17  <Eddi|zuHause> suggestion: when you attempt to readd the wagons, split the last wagon first
13:04:40  <Darkvater> yes, that's better
13:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause> so you add 1 less wagon, which should always work
13:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause> then add the last wagon, which might fail
13:05:12  <Eddi|zuHause> if it does, just sell it
13:05:40  <peter1138> yes, that was going to be my next step
13:06:04  <peter1138> alas, i'm at work
13:06:08  <peter1138> and i never do ottd stuff at work
13:06:14  <Darkvater> o_O
13:06:19  <Eddi|zuHause> right ;)
13:06:30  <Darkvater>
13:06:41  <Darkvater> try this savegame with YAPF and with NPF
13:06:54  <peter1138> breaks?
13:07:03  <Darkvater> no, unplayable
13:07:05  <Darkvater> with npf
13:07:06  <peter1138> oh
13:07:11  <peter1138> and with yapf?
13:07:19  <Darkvater> smooth
13:07:22  <blathijs> :-)
13:07:24  <peter1138> excellent
13:07:24  <blathijs> Nice
13:07:30  <peter1138> who wrote npf? ;)
13:07:31  <Darkvater> 80% cpu though
13:07:34  <peter1138> hmm
13:07:35  <blathijs> *cough*
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13:08:04  <peter1138> ^^
13:09:02  <blathijs> Nice to see that yapf performs so much better :-)
13:09:41  <Darkvater> 15:06 <@peter1138> and i never do ottd stuff at work < don't worry we believe you
13:10:07  <Vornicus> MONKEYPANTS
13:10:07  <Darkvater> what commands does autoreplace exactly go through?
13:10:37  <peter1138> build, move and sell
13:11:14  <Darkvater> hmm, can it be more lenient towards move?
13:11:16  <peter1138> actually i think it's build sell move, then sell-if-wagon-removal
13:11:24  <Darkvater> eg NOT fail the whole thing if 1 move fails
13:11:33  <Darkvater> no wait, then it would work
13:12:00  <Darkvater> doesn't it do sell first? so the orders, etc. are copied?
13:12:08  <peter1138> yeah
13:12:11  <peter1138> you're probably right
13:12:11  <peter1138> however
13:12:30  <peter1138> it only does 1 move
13:12:42  <peter1138> and it is lenient on it
13:12:50  <peter1138> hence you end up with wagons in the depot, and a lone engine
13:13:24  <Darkvater> so it moves in one chucnk
13:13:30  <peter1138> yes
13:14:02  <Darkvater> CmdMoveRailVehicle, p2 bit 0 set
13:14:37  <Darkvater> heh, another ugly function...
13:14:50  *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
13:14:55  <peter1138> move of it is checks to see if it can happen
13:15:25  <Darkvater> hmm how about
13:16:08  <peter1138> -move+most
13:16:08  <Darkvater> you move the whole chunk in one. if it fails you return an error with an error-message (like too-many-wagons). Then autoreplace tries moving again with one less
13:16:16  <Darkvater> if that fails abort the whole thing
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13:16:39  <peter1138> could work
13:16:56  <Darkvater> still a bit hacky
13:17:13  <Darkvater> but moving-all-wagons-in-one should not be present at all since it's not a user-function
13:17:21  <Darkvater> or be called a seperate function
13:17:44  <Eddi|zuHause> at what edge of the map is the tile (0,0)?
13:18:01  <Darkvater> top-left
13:18:08  <Darkvater> you could've
13:18:12  <Darkvater> 1. used the query tool
13:18:18  <Darkvater> 2. console > 'scrollto 0'
13:18:54  <peter1138> not a user-function?
13:18:59  <Darkvater> or is it?
13:19:04  <TinoM> question: i've build a bus in a depot, which is not properly connected to a road. now when started, the bus can't get out of the depot. i can't call it back to the depot, i can't sell it, i can't destroy the depot. is this intentional?
13:19:07  <peter1138> what do you mean by that?
13:19:14  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, that is a funny command :)
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13:19:57  <Darkvater> peter1138: eh nothing :p
13:20:05  <Darkvater> it is a user-command (with CTRL+move)
13:20:09  <peter1138> yeah
13:20:26  <Darkvater> TinoM: why did you start the bus then?
13:20:46  <peter1138> heh
13:20:49  <peter1138> it's true though
13:20:52  <Darkvater> TinoM: with the depot-window open when the bus appears inside the depot, quickly stop it
13:20:54  <TinoM> ;) i didn't see, that the road had the wrong slope
13:21:08  <peter1138> it shouldn't fail to find the depot
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13:21:12  <peter1138> just because it's at the depot...
13:21:33  <TinoM> and i can't destroy the road, it belongs to a city
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13:22:10  <hylje> :|
13:22:20  <Darkvater> TinoM: do as I said
13:22:39  <Trenskow> TinoM build lots of tries around the city. then your rating raises, and you might be able to destroy the road
13:22:42  <peter1138> *sigh*
13:22:51  <peter1138> i hate this asp :(
13:23:01  <Trenskow> if peter1138's example fails
13:23:19  <peter1138> mine?
13:23:31  <hylje> asp? the m$ thing?
13:23:33  <Darkvater> still at IsIndexOf?
13:23:33  <Trenskow> sorry. Darkvater
13:23:54  <peter1138> Darkvater: no, moved on to something totally different
13:24:20  *** Trenskow is now known as Trenskow^away
13:24:21  <Trenskow^away> cya
13:25:34  <TinoM> Darkvater, thx, stopping the bus is working *stupidme*
13:25:44  <Darkvater> TinoM: turn on NPF and press goto depot
13:25:46  <Darkvater> then it finds it
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13:26:04  <Darkvater> he YAPF doesn't work :P
13:26:45  <Darkvater> TinoM: oh, good, cause I couldn't get it to stop exactly at the right moment ;p
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13:28:10  <TinoM> there should be a check: when a vehicle can't leave the depot -> stay there ;)
13:28:26  <Darkvater> there should be a check against ... users
13:28:36  <Darkvater> fill in yourself according to taste ^^
13:28:51  <TinoM> ;)
13:29:14  <peter1138> spicy
13:30:08  <RichK67> woohoo - its Darkvater... king of code-correctness ;)
13:30:13  <TinoM> nah, the problem was, the exit of the depot was facing to the upperright so after building it, the sloped road was hidden by it
13:30:33  <Darkvater> RichK67: found another thing :D
13:30:42  * RichK67 cries :(
13:31:10  <RichK67> you want the credit line to read "Darkvater corrected this" ;)
13:31:14  <Darkvater> *insert evil laugh*
13:31:31  <Darkvater> I think Tron'll get upset, that's his job ;)
13:31:33  <TinoM> but you are right, 99.99999% the time the problem sits in front of the computer *g*
13:31:35  <RichK67> ok ... one *last* thing (please)
13:32:02  <Sacro> PEBKAC :P
13:32:02  <Darkvater> oh and adhere to the commit-log-style ;D
13:32:17  <RichK67> (Im spending too much worktime on this... :( )
13:32:19  <Darkvater> hmm what else can I come up with?
13:32:59  <Darkvater> TinoM: it is strange though the vehicle cannot find the depot inside the depot. With NPF it works and after we tell this to KUDr it'll work with YAPF as well
13:33:21  <TinoM> but respect to the coders: i got OpenTTD compiled on the first try with Eclipse/CDT/MinGW under Win. That has never happened with any other multi-os-open-source-software...
13:34:35  <RichK67> woohoo... "Patch approved"
13:34:51  <Darkvater> no wait, that's a mistake!
13:34:58  * TinoM is new to OpenTTD, but he thinks NPF and YAPF are two different approaches of wayfinding implementations?
13:35:00  * Darkvater franatically tries to find something else
13:35:11  <Darkvater> TinoM: yes
13:35:22  <TinoM> k
13:35:35  <Darkvater> TinoM: well that's good to hear. I once tried it with Eclipse, took me an hour to find out how to even start the damn debugger
13:36:26  <TinoM> that's something i'll try *after* my exams next week ;)
13:36:40  <TinoM> along with digging deeper into the source of openttd
13:36:49  <RichK67> DV: PM sent
13:37:58  <Belugas> very long dive, TinoM
13:38:05  <Belugas> ho.. not dive.. dig
13:38:15  <Belugas> sorry, I have an obsession ;)
13:38:25  <Darkvater>
13:38:35  <Darkvater> ^^ check bobingabout's comment :D
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13:39:03  * Darkvater slaps RichK67 for sending another diff
13:40:22  <RichK67> yeah, well, i could have asked you to replace the one tab with 5 spaces, but .....
13:41:00  <Darkvater> waaiit...I think you have the wrong impression
13:41:11  <Darkvater> I am NOT going to commit this
13:41:19  * Sacro hates bobingabout
13:41:44  <Sacro> Darkvater: is that what you do now your retired?
13:41:58  <Darkvater> *psst* I need rest
13:42:44  <RichK67> er.... you want me to do it??? eek!!
13:42:52  <Maedhros> Darkvater: i get that same 'Error: !Disconnecting train' error with that savegame, with r5130
13:43:00  <Darkvater> yet another possibility to screw up :)
13:43:20  <Darkvater> Maedhros: with my config?
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13:43:29  <Maedhros> the useful part of the error message being: 'openttd: openttd.c:89: error: Assertion `0' failed.'
13:43:35  <Eddi|zuHause> eek... 8MB ;)
13:43:39  <Maedhros> Darkvater: yeah, with your config too
13:43:44  <Darkvater> no the useful part is !disconnecting train
13:44:10  <Maedhros> ah, ok then :)
13:45:14  <RichK67> ok - what should be the commit line??   -Feature: Added 4 New Airports. Coded by RichK67.  plus extra waffle about which they are.... ????
13:45:48  <Darkvater> you don't need the 'coded by' part since it's you who is committing it
13:45:59  <RichK67> true
13:46:02  <Darkvater> yeah, perhaps some waffles
13:46:04  <Darkvater> and
13:46:05  <Darkvater> - Feature:
13:46:12  <Darkvater>  ^
13:46:18  <peter1138> - Feature: BIRD'S EYE POTATO WAFFLES
13:46:21  <RichK67> -Feature: [NewAirports} ...
13:46:28  <RichK67> not } ... ]
13:46:29  <Darkvater> - Feature:
13:46:32  <peter1138> -<SPACE>Feature
13:46:38  <Darkvater> ;p
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13:46:44  <Sacro> they're waffley versatile?
13:46:51  <Darkvater> peter1138: come one I was having such fun
13:48:09  <peter1138> exactly, sacro
13:48:21  <RichK67> ok - looks like KUDr mistyped his last "- Feature" entry...
13:48:22  <Prof_Frink> Waffle is not a feature.
13:48:26  <Prof_Frink> He is a bug.
13:48:28  * Sacro quite fancies some now...with cheese on
13:48:47  <RichK67> ok - devs... GO / NO GO for New Airports???
13:49:07  <Darkvater> I want waffles
13:49:27  <Darkvater> it's fine by me
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13:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i get !disconnecting train, too
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13:50:44  <Darkvater> ah, the bridge-merge
13:50:45  <Darkvater> hehe
13:50:46  <Darkvater> hi Tron
13:51:25  <Tron> hm?
13:51:26  <Sacro> RichK67: GO :)
13:51:45  <Tron> what about the merge? except nobody told me about it
13:52:13  <Belugas> New Airports from RichK67
13:52:40  <Belugas> Hello Tron, by the way :)
13:52:43  <Tron> hi
13:53:05  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean you use r5069 and r5070 broke the savegame?
13:53:27  <Darkvater> hmm seems the bridge-merge broke certain savegames with trains on a bridge at the moment of saving
13:53:42  <Tron> no, really?
13:53:44  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: no I mean I had 5069 lying around
13:53:48  <Tron> how /unexpected/
13:54:04  <Tron> oh, here's the missing sarcasm tag: <sarcasm>
13:54:15  <Darkvater> we just have to figure out if it was intentional or not ;)
13:55:10  <Tron> i still don't want my bridge changes in the trunk
13:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but... if pre-bridge is fine, that guy should not have these problems with 0.4.7
13:55:27  <Tron> because i /know/ it's unfinished
13:55:56  <RichK67> ok - im ready to hit OK.... final call for New Airports... "would New Airports please proceed to boarding immediately"... :)
13:56:08  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: he doesn't have these problems in 0.4.7. In fact it doesn't even load in 0.4.7
13:56:24  <Belugas> Tron : How far from completion do you think it is, apart from gui glitches?
13:56:57  <Belugas> RichK67, you should hold your horses a tiny little bit.
13:57:32  <RichK67> cancelled :(
13:58:36  <Tron> Belugas: about a parsec
13:59:06  <RichK67> Belugas: what is the issue... its been through an extensive Darkvater-grinding process.... im exhausted, he's exhausted... its ready...
13:59:35  <Belugas> Tron : At least, it is not a light year :)  Do you think it can be finished in trunk?
13:59:47  <Tron> Belugas: a parsec is about 3 lightyears
14:00:01  <Tron> Belugas: no, it needs changes to the savegame format
14:00:17  <Belugas> I should have checked before typing :S
14:00:33  <Darkvater> < bbs
14:00:46  <RichK67> DV: ty
14:00:57  <Darkvater> ?
14:01:00  <peter1138> so how long, in reality? :P
14:01:09  <Belugas> So you suggest to bring back in his branch and continue. right?
14:01:09  <Darkvater> I said 'be back soon'; what is there to thank about?
14:01:36  <peter1138> oh, you mean you're not a dial up bulletin board system?
14:01:49  <RichK67> for your help and lengthy assistance
14:01:54  <peter1138> Belugas?
14:02:13  <Belugas> I was replying to Tron, peter1138
14:02:24  <Darkvater> RichK67: :)
14:02:26  <Darkvater> peter1138: you can try
14:02:29  <peter1138> it still doesn't make sense
14:03:05  <Darkvater> he says remove bridge from trunk/ and continue devving in branch/bridge
14:03:49  <RichK67> ok - ill be back later, and will commit tonight from home; or does it need another round-the-devs process?
14:03:55  <peter1138> oh, s/his/its/ ?
14:04:04  <peter1138> ish
14:04:08  <peter1138> french speakers, heh
14:04:29  <Belugas> RichK67 : don't get me wrong.  I love your airports. I'm sure you and DV have made a terrific job on it.  But it would be better, I think, if all devs (present in here) check it out.
14:05:44  <Belugas> yeah... it's true, my reply to Tron does not make real meaning...
14:05:58  * Belugas goes back in coding and shuts up
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14:07:49  <Tron> Belugas: in fact i never was asked how to proceed with my work, it was just commited to trunk without asking me
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14:08:31  <Tron> Belugas: at very least the way it is stored in the map ought to change
14:08:59  <Tron> Belugas: also there are many aspects which haven't been considered and/or tested yet
14:09:49  <Belugas> True.  Although many users have been tested it while you were busy.
14:10:00  <Belugas> Not saying everything might have been spotted...
14:10:24  <Tron> i know what "many users" means
14:10:52  <Belugas> ok... a few :)
14:12:33  <RichK67> all devs: NewAirports trunk-candidate posted here:   please respond with comments. I would prefer we get NewAirports out of the way, as it is holding up final development of TGP maps.
14:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what happened to "in trunk, a lot more people are testing it" and "there is no rule that trunk has to be bugfree"?
14:13:13  <peter1138> tgp maps depends on airports?
14:13:23  <peter1138> hmm
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14:13:34  <RichK67> no, i just dont have time to do them all at the same time
14:14:12  <Tron> Eddi|zuHause: i don't want to bump the savegame version unnecessarily. every conversion is a PITA
14:14:31  <RichK67> if i spend 2 hours tarting up the space-alignment of NewAirports, that is 2 hours not spent bugfixing in TGP
14:14:44  <Tron> i'm more interested in more/better map generators than airports
14:15:22  <RichK67> well airports is ready for final final approval.... DV has said "Patch approved" to the latest version
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14:17:43  <Sacro> commit airports and ill test it from trunk :)
14:21:59  <[Shaman]> If it's in miniIN i'll compile and test tonight :P
14:22:13  <Sacro> noooooo, not miniIN
14:22:14  <Sacro> :P
14:23:03  <[Shaman]> RichK67: The old minty's district n/w airports were a bit dodgy you were aware of that right?
14:23:36  <[Shaman]> (old as in last pre-svn one)
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14:24:49  <RichK67> well, the district airports are *not* in  this patch.... they need a redesign
14:25:43  <RichK67> although my preferred next airport project is a long diagonal runway, but that needs several new tiles creating
14:26:14  <Darkvater> next ariport projects is newairports ;)
14:26:31  <RichK67> aircraft can already land/take off in any of the 8 directions, so its just a graphics issue really
14:26:55  <RichK67> yeah, well Ive got your OK, but Belugas wants it rechecked :(
14:27:07  <Darkvater> haha
14:27:26  * RichK67 adds 6 months to the ETA ;)
14:28:34  * RichK67 thinks... how on earth did KUDr's YAPF get added past this depth of scrutineering....
14:28:45  <Darkvater> he was doing it in C++
14:28:47  <Darkvater> ;p
14:28:59  <Matt-W> What, you check C++ less?
14:29:02  * Matt-W makes a note of that
14:29:07  <Belugas> RichK67 : Ok... Give me until friday.
14:29:08  <RichK67> hmm :)
14:29:18  <peter1138> Matt-W: that's no use if you've not started ;p
14:29:24  <Matt-W> True
14:29:35  <Matt-W> I'll go and sit in my hole for another month
14:29:40  <Darkvater> Matt-W: you shoul
14:29:42  <Darkvater> dammit
14:30:12  <peter1138> :(
14:30:12  <Matt-W> I really need to get my thoughts down about this
14:30:18  <Matt-W> And do some code to see how it works
14:30:26  <RichK67> :(    Belugas, its been months waiting, has been totally stable in MiniIN for 2 months, and has been grilled by DV - surely a quick 10mins is all that is needed
14:30:30  <Matt-W> I'm pretty sure whatever I do someone's going to hate it though
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14:33:12  <Belugas> RichK67, please...  Be patient.  I have a crazy schedule.  I'm at work, right now, and 10 minutes is a long time...
14:33:40  <RichK67> ok.... but you can bet I am *NOT* going to accept this level of "what does this do" on TGP... im not spending weeks explaining to every dev exactly how Perlin Noise works, and why... its waaaaaaaaaaaaay to complicated to do it simply. (although tgp.c is THE most heavily commented file I have seen in OTTD)
14:34:01  <Belugas> lunch break is an hour and a  half away...
14:34:26  <RichK67> Belugas: i can only catch most of the devs during my work time too :(
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14:35:25  <Belugas> I'm here from 9"00 to 5:00  Quebec time, monday to friday :)
14:35:33  <Belugas> a slave I am
14:35:43  <RichK67> in fact, why not allow it to be committed, and if there is anything horrendous, it can be pulled. DV has said "yes", so you can be sure its 99%+ ok....   please... go on... ;)
14:36:22  <RichK67> (I could commit, and be damned anyway, but i dont work like that ;) )
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14:37:43  <Darkvater> RichK67: you're asking the wrong questions
14:37:53  <Darkvater> Belugas: why do you want to look at it and why do you think it's broken?
14:38:01  <RichK67> damn... i knew there was a secret handshake...
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14:40:15  <Tron> i think the main problem is it changes stored stuff and is therefore hardly reversible
14:40:34  <Tron> (which btw is the reason why i wanted to keep my stuff in a branch till it's done)
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14:40:52  <Belugas> I never said it was broken.  I just think that all devs should have a chance to look at it. All opinions must be considered
14:41:09  <Darkvater> ah
14:41:09  <Brianetta> Not mine
14:41:16  <Belugas> see, another opinion :)
14:41:18  <Darkvater> I was under the impression that I was the last one to look at
14:41:23  <Brianetta> If you consider my opinions, you'll have a lot of listening to do
14:42:19  <peter1138> icecream!!!"!
14:42:25  <Belugas> Darkvater : no, only you and Celestar were frequently looking at it.  I watched the progress, took two or three good look at it, but never a full reading
14:42:27  <Darkvater> orudge: PING
14:43:22  <orudge> PONG
14:43:27  * orudge has just got back from Tesco
14:43:28  <Darkvater> orudge: you know
14:43:31  <orudge> Yup, I do
14:43:40  <orudge> and it's now time for food. You pick the most inopportune moments ;)
14:43:41  <Darkvater> and what excuse this time? :)
14:43:45  <orudge> I did get started on the ol' accounts the other day, though
14:43:53  <orudge> All I can say is there are a load of donations ther e:p
14:43:57  <orudge> They just need accounting for.
14:44:50  <Darkvater> people go to jail for that, did you know? :)
14:45:05  <Darkvater> Tesco is nice. Did you get any chocolate muffins?
14:45:21  <orudge> Well, I haven't done anything wrong, I just haven't finished counting everything up yet :p
14:45:23  <orudge> and no, I didn't
14:45:26  <orudge> I did get some French bread, though
14:45:37  <peter1138> tesco tiger baguette++
14:45:52  <peter1138> though they only seem to have it at weekends
14:48:44  <Matt-W> (tesco finest baton)++ <- sort of soft and moist and nice to have for lunch
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15:14:26  <Darkvater> so to prepare some food now
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15:30:57  <Sacro> right then peoples :P
15:31:13  <Eddi|zuHause> why is RoadBits enumerated in positive orientation, while Direction is negative orientation?
15:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> consistency--
15:37:55  <Sacro> hmm
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15:38:40  <Eddi|zuHause> (negative == clockwise, positive == counter clockwise)
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15:58:51  <Eddi|zuHause> urgs... the more i look at this code, the more i get lost in magic...
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15:58:57  <Sacro> lol
15:59:15  <Eddi|zuHause> this code definitely could use more comments
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16:00:28  <Belugas> Delete window.  It has a checkbox "Destroy permanently". You take the time to check it on.  Next dialog : "Destroy cannot be undoe; information will be lost permamently! Continue anyway?"
16:00:38  <Belugas> Well... Yeah... Duh
16:00:54  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: playing wi' Vista?
16:00:57  <Belugas> Or at least, remember that I have said yes the frsit time o_O
16:01:01  <Belugas> no,
16:01:15  <RichK67> users are stupid... may have clicked box by accident
16:01:21  <Belugas> doing source purging in Microsoft Visual Studio
16:01:56  <Belugas> users could be stupid, but a dev should be a little more trusted, for god Sake!
16:03:10  * Eddi|zuHause looks for a program that can generate me a call graph and a definition graph of ottd code
16:04:24  *** jonty-comp [] has joined #openttd
16:04:42  *** Rexxie [] has joined #openttd
16:05:34  <Brianetta> A passenger in a taxi tapped the driver on the shoulder to ask him something. The driver screamed, lost control of the cab, nearly hit a bus, drove up over the curb, and stopped just inches from a large plate glass window.
16:05:44  <Vornicus> Eddi: the thing would eat your mind.
16:05:45  <Brianetta> For a few moments everything was silent in the cab, then the driver said, " Please, don't ever do that again. You scared the daylights out of me."
16:06:00  <Sacro> ...
16:06:14  <Brianetta> The passenger, who was also frightened, apologized and said he didn't realize that a tap on the shoulder could frighten him so much.
16:06:18  <Vornicus> I think it's already eaten Tron's and DV's.
16:06:30  <Brianetta> To which the Taxi driver responded, "I'm sorry, it's really not your fault at all. Today is my first day driving a cab. I have been driving a hearse for the last 25 years!"
16:07:31  <Sacro> hehe
16:07:52  <Vornicus> sad
16:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe ;)
16:08:45  *** dfox [] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
16:09:08  <Vornicus> also, belugas?  I've known some dang-stupid programmers
16:09:12  *** Mucht|work [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:09:36  <Belugas> well...
16:09:54  <Belugas> they don't last long anyway
16:10:22  <Belugas> At work, they are easy to spot
16:11:14  *** xahodo [] has quit []
16:11:24  <peter1138> hmm
16:13:21  *** bebble [] has joined #openttd
16:13:55  <Belugas> and further on, you don't give beginners full access to the repos
16:14:06  *** UnderBuilder [i=UnderBui@] has joined #openttd
16:14:14  <peter1138> hmm?
16:14:31  <peter1138> i have to :(
16:14:36  <peter1138> most of the time they don't use it
16:14:40  <peter1138> they don't have a clue
16:14:54  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
16:16:32  <UnderBuilder> hmmm... I noted that there are some 'reference images' lacking in Can I extract the sprites from the original grf's and put there or I have to do it from a screenshot ingame?
16:17:25  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
16:17:46  <Eddi|zuHause> err... i don't think anyone can differentiate that afterwards ;)
16:18:19  <UnderBuilder> so I can extract the sprites from the tr*1r.grf no? :)
16:18:23  <Ihmemies> the gfx should be made of vectors and effects and textures rendered afterwards! :D
16:18:54  <Prof_Frink> UnderBuilder: yes, with grfcodec
16:19:16  <Prof_Frink> Look on the ttdpatch site
16:19:29  <Noldo> Ihmemies: you are willing to do the 3d engine?
16:19:30  <Alltaken> UnderBuilder:  extracting is fine :P
16:19:37  <Alltaken> thats how the others were done
16:19:41  <UnderBuilder> I know how to use grfcodec, I used it sometimes
16:20:26  <UnderBuilder> only 1/2 sprites from each vehicle or all?
16:21:57  * Belugas reads an airport patch
16:22:35  *** Mukke [] has quit []
16:22:40  <UnderBuilder> and what image hosting need I? anyone?
16:24:08  <Alltaken>
16:24:12  <Alltaken> down the bottom
16:24:28  <Alltaken> dunno if you can upload images there or not, but i can open it up for the night
16:26:18  <UnderBuilder> ok
16:26:40  <UnderBuilder> ah and what is the file of the desert graphics?
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16:28:36  <Dred_furst> Hey
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16:30:00  <Belugas> RichK67 : ping
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16:32:26  <Sacro> grrr, how'd you model tube stock
16:32:39  <Eddi|zuHause> UnderBuilder: there's one tr*.grf for each climate
16:33:49  <RichK67> pong :)
16:34:01  <UnderBuilder> I know but I don't remember what one is the desert
16:34:19  <UnderBuilder> I will try it anyway :)
16:34:40  <Belugas> RichK67 Little question :
16:34:48  <RichK67> fire away
16:35:09  <Belugas> What if a savegame is used owith an exec that does not countain newairports?
16:35:24  <Belugas> the stationids are stored within the savegame
16:35:44  <Belugas> With multiplayer, it does not matter beause of exec-version
16:35:59  <Belugas> but single player would most likely crach
16:36:23  <Belugas> since there is no indication of newairport
16:36:24  <RichK67> if we say the commit is r5150, then if you save a post-5150 game, and try to load it in pre-5150, it may not work...
16:36:50  <RichK67> but then that is no different to every other development
16:37:01  <Belugas> if the savegame bump is not changed, it will load
16:37:14  <Belugas> and crash because of ids
16:37:50  <RichK67> it will load, but then you will get IsBuoy( t) asserts when it checks the stationIds
16:38:34  <RichK67> if you load a pre-5150 with airports into a post-5150, it will load without problems
16:38:57  <Belugas> but asserts
16:39:07  <Belugas> ho.. no...
16:39:18  <Belugas> forget last post
16:39:22  <RichK67> its like saying "load a post-yapf game in a pre-yapf version"....
16:39:59  <glx> RichK67: in that case it fails to load and doesn't assert
16:40:35  *** Zerot [] has joined #openttd
16:40:44  <RichK67> ok - so what is resolution on this?? bump the savegame version?
16:42:19  <Belugas> saveload revision
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16:42:59  <UnderBuilder> the steel trucks and the paper ones are the same no?
16:43:45  <RichK67> it was savegame version when i last checked .... lets see.... const uint16 SAVEGAME_VERSION = 29;
16:43:50  <RichK67> :P
16:44:10  <UnderBuilder> I mean by graphics
16:44:16  <Belugas> that is the point.  I would make it 30
16:44:27  <Belugas> as a signature
16:44:33  <RichK67> ok, so in other words; "yes" :)
16:44:41  <brygge_2> dfhn
16:44:47  <Belugas> depends to what ;)
16:44:58  <peter1138> UnderBuilder: no
16:45:37  <peter1138> so what about the landscape generator? ;)
16:45:38  <RichK67> so that would allow older versions of OTTD to recognise that it is a newer version savegame at load stage...
16:46:13  <Belugas> exactly, yes
16:46:15  <peter1138> i'd not touch anything saveload related until the bridge stuff is cleared up
16:46:15  <UnderBuilder> when they are empty they are similar
16:46:30  <Belugas> good point peter1138
16:46:49  <Belugas> since we do not know if/when it will be reverted
16:47:01  <peter1138> empty might be the same
16:47:01  <RichK67> TGP needs no save stats at all; unless we want to save the map random seed in each map (essential for debugging)
16:47:19  <peter1138> RichK67: i meant in general. it's more interesting that airports, heh
16:48:03  <RichK67> probably better to bump the version with newairports, and modify it back down if bridges gets pulled
16:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds horrible
16:48:54  <RichK67> TGP is getting prettier by the day, but my latest version now asserts more often than it used to
16:49:33  <peter1138> what's the difficulty with industries btw? they... "work" with the existing generator, don't they?
16:49:34  <RichK67> (but still rarely enough that it is hard to get it to do one while looking for it :( )
16:49:35  <Eddi|zuHause> RichK67: if you do fine tuning, with rough terrain, the mountains could be a tad steeper ;)
16:51:05  <RichK67> eddi: i could modify the initial persistence values to give a chance of a more vertically varied terrain, but it is still only a chance; there is still the possibility it produces a flat terrain on mountainous... its random ;)
16:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> sure it's random... but you can vary the chances towards it, i assume ;)
16:52:08  <RichK67> industries... existing code checks that the platform base is *flat*... the extra variance in the fine detail on TGP means that there is little likelihood of finding a *flat* area; so it now makes one
16:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> how about trying to place industries on foundations?
16:53:02  <RichK67> eddi: only in the persistence value - for "mountainous" i also add a second terrain on top of the first, so it should have a vertical bias
16:53:10  <UnderBuilder> I have extracted some sprites but the page is protected so I can't put the images there
16:53:42  <UnderBuilder> it goes to another page or how do I it?
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16:53:56  <RichK67> eddi: industries sort of do already, but frankly woods and iron ore mines look stupid on foundations (that was my first check)
16:54:13  <peter1138> hehe
16:55:10  <RichK67> the problem with them is solved now, so its a mute issue; TGP uses a new industry placement method... because it does :)
16:55:46  <peter1138> moot
16:55:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i know :) but i am not too fond of the results... it sometimes messes up the landscape unnecessarily
16:56:06  <RichK67> yup... although mute is the right response too :)
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16:56:33  <RichK67> eddi: you havent even used the latest version; its not in MiniIN yet
16:56:54  *** Tron [] has quit ["leaving"]
16:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause> fine, then show me ;)
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16:58:10  <RichK67> latest version; requirements for placing an industry: must be within 1 height level of main tile, must not be occupied by anything other than trees or clear, must not terraform level in a way that affects non tree/clear tiles surrounding
16:58:50  <RichK67> first restriction means that it doesnt create an industry on its own private hill :)
16:59:17  <Eddi|zuHause> looks quite nice ;)
16:59:39  <Eddi|zuHause> what is the "main tile"?
16:59:43  <RichK67> did i post it? oh, maybe i did
17:00:03  <RichK67> if you are placing an industry manually, its the tile thats highlighted
17:00:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant "look" in the theoretical sense ;)
17:01:11  <RichK67> in a live game, it will only try to place at that tile.  in the scengen, if the main tile fails to place, it tries surrounding tiles. I would love to switch that "feature" off, but i cant work out where it does it :(
17:02:02  <RichK67> nothing more annoying when trying to generate a scenario than to have the industry placed 8 tiles away from where you clicked in another town's catchment area :(
17:02:17  <Eddi|zuHause> using a center tile as height reference might give more suitible results
17:03:15  <RichK67> makes no difference... it will still be from where you click, at the height you click, and cover the same area....
17:04:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean for the terraforming
17:04:26  *** Tobin [] has quit []
17:04:45  <UnderBuilder> no replies to my problem?
17:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause> if you have 2 height levels (+1,0,-1) difference in the area the industry gets placed, it is more likely, that the height 0 tiles are in the center, -1 at one side, and +1 at the other side
17:05:51  <RichK67> eddi: i dont think it makes any difference now... the new TGP behaviour places the industry at the same location it would be placed in current OTTD
17:06:41  <RichK67> eddi: cant assume that; ive had plenty of different cases ive tried... steep hills, etc. its fine... trust me ;)
17:07:02  <Eddi|zuHause> so, if you choose a height 0 tile as reference tile, the industry can be placed, while if you use a +-1 tile, it refuses to build
17:07:17  <RichK67> underbuilder: sorry i dont know about the wiki pages
17:09:09  <RichK67> eddi: depends on the terrain... one of my tests would not place it (correctly) in one location as to level it down would have destroyed houses. but if you pre-prepared the site level with the houses, then it placed fine; both are correct results
17:09:14  *** tokai|noir [] has quit [Success]
17:09:15  <Belugas> UnderBuilder : Have you tried to log on?
17:09:47  <Belugas> as in... create a login account...
17:10:05  *** tokai|3 [] has quit [Connection timed out]
17:10:07  <Belugas> or ask MeusH and/or MiHaMiX when any wold show up
17:10:25  <RichK67> eddi: the current OTTD system would reject all the locations my new one succeeds in, since my routine can do some simple levelling
17:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i was trying to look through the town code, as it annoys me how the towns destroy the terrain, but i was getting insane because of it ;)
17:10:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i know ;)
17:10:44  <RichK67> eddi: agreed, that is one of my pet hates too
17:11:07  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean insane from looking at the code
17:11:27  <RichK67> i suffered badly from that doing the africa scenario... i would place a coastal town, and it would invent new land, and carve away the nice hills behind :(
17:13:26  <Eddi|zuHause> radical solution: rip out all references to terraforming code from the town code... so it only does foundations if possible
17:15:03  <RichK67> i could live with that :)
17:15:16  <RichK67> TGP function?
17:16:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well... alternative would be: rip out all the town (growing) code, and replace it with some sensible AI
17:16:12  <Dred_furst> Where do external symbols get defined?
17:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause> in another file
17:16:41  <Dred_furst> Because im getting errors with the copy and paste patch
17:16:52  <Dred_furst> openttd error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol @ClearCommandQueue@0
17:17:05  <Eddi|zuHause> forgot to add file to the makefile
17:17:17  <Dred_furst> where do i set them?
17:17:54  <RichK67> what compiler?
17:18:04  <Dred_furst> VSC7
17:19:08  <RichK67> hmm - is it .sln file for VSC7???  or does it go in the .vcproj??? or both???
17:19:39  <Dred_furst> .sln,
17:19:46  <Eddi|zuHause> wherever all the other files are specified ;)
17:20:09  <Dred_furst> hmm
17:20:27  <Dred_furst> RichK67 how hard is it to compile with MinGW?
17:21:37  <UnderBuilder> I registered but nothing happens :|
17:21:53  <Sacro> Dred_furst: cd into the folder, type "make" and away she goes
17:21:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Dred_furst: i would assume, you can just add the file to the project in the IDE... that's what it is there for ;)
17:22:12  <Dred_furst> hmm
17:22:23  <Dred_furst> Which MinGW file do i need to download?
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17:22:49  <Dred_furst> 3.0.1?
17:22:53  <UnderBuilder> maybe I need to wait someone that know more...
17:23:19  <Sacro> Dred_furst: theres a tutorial on the wiki
17:23:31  <RichK67> i love MingW... very easy
17:23:35  <Dred_furst> Will readm ij LO]
17:23:38  <Dred_furst> *:P
17:23:57  <Sacro> not as nice as having Linux though
17:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause> *PARSE ERROR*
17:24:02  <RichK67> ok time to head home
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17:45:20  <UnderBuilder> can I post the extracted sprites in the forum so someone that have access to edit it?
17:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> could anybody prevent you from doing it?
17:51:09  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: hi
17:51:34  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: why don't you upload the extracted sprites to the wiki?
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17:58:30  <UnderBuilder> mmm.... how do I that? =S
17:59:46  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: register yourself at the wiki and upload the file afterwards
18:07:12  <UnderBuilder> and when I upload it, how I add the image to the page?
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18:09:00  <UnderBuilder> or maybe I make a zip or rar file with all the sprites inside?
18:09:15  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: [[Image:filename.jpg]]
18:09:34  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: no rar
18:11:24  <UnderBuilder> mmm.... and how I add it to
18:11:36  <UnderBuilder> I haven't access to it
18:14:05  <Dred_furst> can anyone send me the SVN package?
18:15:17  *** Sacro__ [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-130-168.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:15:25  <Dred_furst> the site appears to be down,
18:15:28  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-130-168.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:16:14  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: u can't. noone can edit that directly
18:16:31  *** Tron_ is now known as Tron
18:16:37  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: u have 2 edit the subcategory-file instead
18:16:46  *** Sacro__ is now known as Sacro
18:17:04  <Dred_furst> anyone got the SVN package? :)
18:17:16  <MiHaMiX> UnderBuilder: say:
18:17:27  <UnderBuilder> ok
18:19:25  <UnderBuilder> but equally I will not do that, I see that the wiki is too complicated for me
18:19:46  <Dred_furst> Sacro you there?
18:20:01  <Sacro> it does seem so
18:20:09  <Dred_furst> Do you have the svn package :)
18:21:41  <Dred_furst> Sacro?
18:23:00  <Belugas> Dred_furst :
18:23:05  <Dred_furst> I cant open it
18:23:11  <Belugas> or
18:23:15  <Dred_furst> Its going to "Cannot connect to server"
18:23:27  <Sacro> sorry
18:23:33  <Sacro> which svn package?
18:23:38  <Dred_furst> one for gcc
18:23:48  <Dred_furst> for use with Msys
18:23:51  <Sacro> im not quite following you
18:23:55  <Sacro> oh right...
18:24:10  <Dred_furst> to compile under windows :)
18:24:57  <Sacro> im not sure, i dont use windows
18:25:05  <Sacro> though i may have it laying around somewhere
18:25:14  <Dred_furst> thanks :)
18:25:29  <Sacro> yeah i do
18:25:33  <Sacro> how can i transfer you it?
18:25:38  <Dred_furst> AIM?
18:25:41  <Sacro> and what exactly are you wanting?
18:25:41  <Dred_furst> DCC?
18:25:43  <Sacro> no i aint on AIM
18:25:53  <Sacro> DCC takes me a while to figure
18:25:58  <Dred_furst> ok, uhm...
18:26:02  <Dred_furst> MSN?
18:26:06  <Belugas> mais je t'AIM, moi, Sacro ^^
18:26:18  <Sacro>
18:26:18  <Dred_furst> Skype even?
18:26:32  <Sacro> Skype have ditched linux it seems
18:26:38  <Dred_furst> hmm
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18:32:43  <Sacro> didnt mean to click that
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18:44:31  <Brianetta> make: warning:  Clock skew detected.  Your build may be incomplete.
18:44:31  <Brianetta> Nothing wrong with my clock - svn glitch?
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18:46:59  <valhallasw> Brianetta: time zone glitch I guess?
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18:55:30  <Dred_furst> Im getting MinGW compile errors
18:55:56  <Dred_furst> wait
18:55:57  <Dred_furst> :P
18:57:11  <Dred_furst> On another tack, windows powershell looks like the way forward :P
18:57:34  <Dred_furst> its very very similar to unix :)
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19:13:46  <RichK67> hi all
19:13:48  <[Shaman]> hey RichK67
19:14:13  <[Shaman]> that response time looks too eerie O_O
19:14:36  <Sacro> 20:14:01?
19:15:33  <Vornicus> Clock skew is when you have a file with a modification time after the current time.
19:18:32  *** webfreakz [n=Ronald@] has joined #openttd
19:18:33  <CIA-3> richk * r5143 /branch/MiniIN/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [MiniIN]: [Planeset1.2]: Update to current Planeset. Thanks to Mart3p for sending patch update.
19:18:41  <webfreakz> hi
19:19:01  <peter1138> ...
19:19:04  <webfreakz> last days i've been iritated by a error message which caused my game to crash
19:19:06  <peter1138> you're including the planeset now?
19:19:22  <webfreakz> and the forum shows i'm not the only one with this message
19:19:32  <webfreakz> any dev' please read
19:19:35  <webfreakz> thank you :)
19:20:28  <RichK67> peter - its special additions for new airport support, supplied by mart3p
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19:21:09  <peter1138> it's *not* the planeset
19:21:17  <peter1138> it's a patch that makes the planeset work better
19:21:21  <RichK67> although those ones are bugfixes for missing bits
19:21:57  <RichK67> ok... the patch file he sent me was called Planeset_MiniIN_r5142.patch   - i trust mart3p ;)
19:23:54  <Hackykid> hmm
19:24:20  <peter1138> RichK67: Hackykid had a lot of patches called "stuff"
19:24:40  <Hackykid> hehe
19:24:44  <webfreakz>
19:24:50  <peter1138> i don't remember seeing any commits adding "stuff support"
19:24:57  <Hackykid> [Stuff]: added some more stuff
19:25:01  <RichK67> peter1138: mine isnt, and my "patches" subdirectory includes the diff that i applied
19:25:02  <Hackykid> :-)
19:25:16  <glx> webfreakz: no need to post the  same link twice :)
19:25:18  <webfreakz>
19:25:34  <webfreakz> glx: nobody responses so i assumed nobody saw my message
19:26:31  <glx> webfreakz: your savegame is from a pre-bridge nightly?
19:26:32  <Hackykid> RichK67: i thinks peter1138 means, that commit message seems a tad misleading heh
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19:27:02  <webfreakz> glx: yes even a savegame from 7-january-2006 crashes
19:27:18  <webfreakz> gx: and yes, even with yesterdays nightly
19:27:24  <webfreakz> (not self compiled)
19:27:36  <peter1138> webfreakz: and yes, it is a known issue
19:27:49  <glx> so do what Darkvater said on the forum (use a pre-bridge nightly)
19:28:09  <Darkvater> yep
19:28:11  <webfreakz> hmm
19:28:16  <webfreakz> why does it occur then?
19:28:22  <RichK67> maybe - its clear enough, and its not as though it changes 2500 files; its an update to keep MiniIN "current" with Planeset functionality as defined by mart3p... i doubt this one is ever going to be examined again
19:28:25  <peter1138> perhaps... it's a bug?
19:28:39  <webfreakz> but you haven't solved it yet?
19:28:58  <webfreakz> i mean, you don't have any idea why?
19:29:03  <peter1138> i've not solved it
19:29:08  <peter1138> i do have any idea
19:29:15  <peter1138> -y
19:29:28  <webfreakz> hmm ok
19:29:40  <webfreakz> i will just have to wait patiencely :)
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19:30:19  <Darkvater> he, the culprit is back :)
19:30:21  <webfreakz> so i should go back to r5070 ?
19:30:36  <webfreakz> 5069 to be more precise...
19:30:50  <Hackykid> indeed :-p
19:31:12  <Hackykid> if your feeling brave, i got a pbs diff against 5069 :-p
19:31:19  <webfreakz> ok
19:31:21  <webfreakz> :)
19:31:34  <webfreakz> gimme-gimme :P
19:31:42  <glx> Hackykid: how do you store pbs status for stations?
19:32:00  <Hackykid> glx: i stole a bit frome the station classes
19:32:12  * peter1138 > cook dinner
19:32:14  <Hackykid> so only max 127 of those! hah! :-p
19:33:22  <Darkvater> hmm
19:33:25  <Darkvater> I think I needa a shower
19:33:46  *** Mucht|zZz is now known as Mucht
19:34:24  <TL|Away> I will be installing SVN 1.3.1, so the SVN will be reset in a moment.. just that you know, not that you will notice :p
19:35:33  <CIA-3> richk * r5144 /branch/MiniIN/ (11 files in 2 dirs): [MiniIN]: [GRF Cargo Subtype]: New patch added. Thanks to Mart3p for sending MiniIN version.
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19:40:38  <RichK67> TL: is it safe to do a commit right now??
19:41:02  <glx> RichK67: try and you'll see if it works :)
19:41:15  <TL|Away> RichK67: please hold a commit
19:41:19  <TL|Away> then we can try the new version :p
19:41:29  <RichK67> okies - ready when you ask for one
19:41:41  <TL|Away> so, try now :p
19:42:06  <CIA-3> richk * r5145 /branch/MiniIN/ (6 files in 2 dirs): [MiniIN]: [GRF Aircraft Callback15]: New patch added. Thanks to Mart3p for sending MiniIN version.
19:42:16  <TL|Away> hmmz, it helps when I reset the current process :p
19:42:16  <TL|Away> hehe
19:43:12  <TL|Away> okay, now we should try it :p
19:43:18  <TL|Away> oh well, the next commit will show it :p
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19:48:20  <peter1138> hmm
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19:56:32  <[Shaman]> new patches to minty?
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19:57:14  <RichK67> small ones - planeset support features really
19:57:33  <[Shaman]> e//
19:58:13  <peter1138> ?
19:58:36  <RichK67> ok - mart3p patches for his particular grf support
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20:00:00  <peter1138> i mean [Shaman] ;p
20:00:11  <peter1138> planeset support is fine by me :)
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20:00:37  <[Shaman]> e// is a smilie i often use
20:00:40  <RichK67> ah - ok
20:00:53  <peter1138> [Shaman]: ah... you have a strange face :)
20:02:27  <[Shaman]> yeh :P
20:02:50  <[Shaman]> some use \o/ .. o// or something, but due to lazyness i rather go for the faster e// :P
20:03:41  <RichK67> peter: question about applying a patch built against one branch (trunk) to another branch (MiniIN)... i keep getting lots of misalignments... any automated way around???
20:03:46  <peter1138> e// is faster? hmm.
20:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> e// does definitely not match any smilie-patterns i have
20:04:10  <[Shaman]> yeh, using both hands instead of one hand going back and forth across it's section of the keyboard
20:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. will not be recognized as such)
20:04:42  <[Shaman]> Eddi|zuHause: fancy graphics eh?
20:04:44  <[Shaman]> use irssi :P
20:04:53  <peter1138> RichK67: conflicts will happen, because things have been changed
20:04:56  <peter1138> no way to avoid it
20:05:38  <RichK67> even if i sync with trunk immediately prior?
20:06:25  *** jonty-comp [] has quit [Nick collision from services.]
20:06:31  <peter1138> doesn't really help. your branch is still different.
20:06:57  *** jonty_comp is now known as jonty-comp
20:07:04  <RichK67> even though there is a trace through to the common trunk?
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20:08:44  <Hackykid> be glad if theres only misalignments hehe
20:09:13  <Hackykid> hmm, or you mean conflicts?
20:09:19  <Hackykid> or, are they the same heh :O
20:09:36  <RichK67> it only seems to affect patches created after the split... earlier patches apply ok
20:09:55  <peter1138> i translated misalignments as conflicts
20:10:03  <RichK67> its misalignments... tortoise refuses to even allow you to view the differences
20:10:20  <peter1138> ok
20:10:25  <peter1138> no idea what a misalignment is then
20:10:29  <Hackykid> hmm, that never happened to me
20:11:58  <RichK67> eg. "The patch seems outdated. The file line...  <some text or other> and the patchline <other text> do not match!"  - these are generally line misalignments
20:13:29  <RichK67> i think what it is is that Tortoise picks up the patch's rev number (created against trunk), and tries to compare it to the branch source for that rev number (or next lowest)... and they dont match... different reference sources
20:13:29  <Hackykid> hmm, maybe that is just a warning?
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20:14:10  <Hackykid> i mean, it means the linenumbers dont match, but .diff's are built in such a way it may be able to correct that
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20:14:14  <RichK67> Hackykid: its a fatal one then; nothing gets applied, and the only solution seems manually editing the lines from that file in
20:14:54  <Hackykid> you dont happen to have cygwin and the 'diff' tool installed? :-p
20:15:14  <Hackykid> oh wait
20:15:19  <Hackykid> you need 'patch' for this :-p
20:15:19  <RichK67> Tortoise is very sensitive; if you edit a .patch file, and change the start line, it barfs... doesnt even try
20:15:37  <Hackykid> well, that sucks
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20:16:32  <Hackykid> well, i'd say try what patch sais about it
20:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to do it correctly ;)
20:16:44  <RichK67> hoho
20:16:46  <Eddi|zuHause> (the editing)
20:17:31  <RichK67> eddi: i think i can add 1 in the relevant places ;)   ive repaired some non-patching ones this way... laborious, but works
20:18:07  <RichK67> but, since some patches (subsids) are giving me this failure on 30+ files, i dont fancy the job of doing it manually
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20:20:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you could write a program that searches for the matching context lines, and changes the numbers automatically ;)
20:21:08  <Tron> or just use patch
20:21:09  <Eddi|zuHause> OR
20:21:34  <RichK67> im trying patch, but it desperately needs a better interface :(
20:21:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you could try to apply the patch to the version of the split, then create a diff to your current version
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20:21:48  <Tron> RichK67: please?
20:21:54  <Tron> better interface than patch<file?
20:22:28  <Tron> how more easy could it be?
20:22:41  <RichK67> gui ;)
20:23:32  <Tron> before you even have decided where to right-click in your gui i have written patch<file thrice
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20:24:01  <Tron> and as bonus it even works
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20:25:35  <peter1138> heh
20:26:00  <RichK67> nothing but errors "perhaps you should have used the wobblytron field"
20:27:10  <Tron> with tortoise? you already said that
20:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> like i said... apply it to the split revision, and create a new diff
20:27:22  <RichK67> with patch
20:28:14  <Belugas> watch out, RichK67.  The patch.exe that is provided in Win32 is NOT the one we are talking about here
20:28:52  <RichK67> its the one downloaded off the patch website
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20:29:31  <RichK67> "reports bugs to
20:29:34  <Belugas> ok, forget my intrusion in the discussion
20:30:38  <Tron> i'm impressed, it's /really/ hard to use patch wrong
20:31:48  <peter1138> well
20:31:58  <RichK67> well, you can have a go if you want; download the current MiniIN branch, and try applying Sirkoz's r5095 Smooth Economy patch... i get nothing but errors, and even an assert in patch, line 339....
20:32:25  <peter1138> you're killing patch now? special
20:32:49  <glx> RichK67: let me try :)
20:32:56  <RichK67> ty
20:33:46  <RichK67> peter: not my fault... most software docs assume everything goes right... when it doesnt you are on your own... im feeling pretty alone on this ;)
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20:35:15  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf? i had a clean copy of miniIN, and on update it says: Error: Failed to add file 'airports.grf': object of the same name already exists
20:36:00  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: old miniin converted to branch?
20:36:01  <peter1138> so delete your local copy of the file
20:36:15  <RichK67> it looks like it didnt like the 2 lines below from midway through the patch
20:36:15  <RichK67> @@ -975,7 +975,7 @@
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20:36:27  <glx> RichK67: I can't find the diff
20:36:28  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that might be it ;)
20:37:24  <RichK67> eddi: Tortoise has recently had some issues, throwing that error on other files too. ensure you have latest update (at least
20:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i have 1.3.3.something
20:37:47  <RichK67> sorry,
20:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause> it complained that i do not have 1.3.4.whatever already ;)
20:38:08  <RichK67> although there is a newer one available
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20:38:27  <glx> RichK67: found it :)
20:39:24  * RichK67 crosses fingers and hopes that it causes the same error for glx ;)
20:39:54  <[Shaman]> lol
20:40:03  <glx> Assertion failed: hunk, file ../patch-2.5.9-src/patch.c, line 339 <-- weird
20:40:20  <RichK67> yay!! its not me!!! :) :)    i thank you :)
20:40:32  <Hackykid> hehe
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20:41:16  <Tron> WFM
20:42:28  <Hackykid> ack
20:42:51  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf... how can a directory be in a conflict?
20:43:00  <glx> RichK67: found why :)
20:43:07  <RichK67> solution?
20:43:16  <Tron> Eddi|zuHause: properties
20:43:16  <RichK67> ok - why first ;)
20:43:44  <glx> it's because I used save as in my text editor and it killed the space in empty lines
20:43:51  <glx> so invalid diff format
20:44:36  <RichK67> there is a space on my empty lines
20:45:14  <RichK67> did it fail initially on line 38 for industry_cmd.c?
20:45:35  <glx> patching file industry_cmd.c
20:45:36  <glx> Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R? [n]
20:45:59  <glx> hmm you already added smooth_economy in your branch no?
20:46:02  <RichK67> i said n, apply anyway y
20:46:15  <RichK67> yes, there is an update in this patch tho
20:46:28  <RichK67> but it doesnt work on all sorts of other patches
20:46:37  <glx> so you need to revert previous to apply new
20:46:43  <Tron> of course this doesn't work
20:46:55  <RichK67> read my last line please
20:46:56  <Tron> exactly the change is already there
20:47:04  <RichK67> OTHER patches
20:47:14  <Tron> it can NEVER work
20:47:24  <peter1138> other bits of the patch can work
20:47:47  <Tron> all hunks are already there
20:48:45  <glx> RichK67: if you want it to apply without problem you need to ask SirkoZ for an update against your branch
20:49:10  <Tron> patch has no way to know what's semantically correct
20:49:20  <Tron> it's just a text processing tool
20:49:35  <RichK67> ok, so if i pick a random patch; say "improved acceleration"....real_acceleration_r5006.patch    i get "patching file train_cmd.c .... assertion failed."
20:49:42  <Tron> there's no way any tool could know what's right
20:50:22  <Tron> then you're using a faulty executable
20:50:39  <RichK67> glx: already asked for... hopefully on its way... i was hoping to have an easy way of applying the patches... the old 530K patch applied better than this
20:50:56  <RichK67> Tron: lets see if glx's exe is also faulty then...
20:51:09  <glx> RichK67: so revert the old patch then apply the new :)
20:51:37  <RichK67> glx: its not THAT problem... this happens to ALL patches
20:51:48  <RichK67> whether they have been run once or not
20:51:52  <Eddi|zuHause> RichK67: did you try my suggestion?
20:52:14  <Tron> patchutils from cygwin?
20:53:19  <Mucht> probably you all noticed but: there's an article about ottd at the current issue of the tux-magazine
20:53:38  <Tron> url?
20:54:07  <Mucht>
20:54:28  <Mucht> its free to signup and they mail it to you every month
20:54:29  <RichK67> this is getting piss annoying trying to get this damn thing to work... SVN MiniIN branch is turning into a backward step :(
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20:54:46  <Mucht> its quite a nice magazine with its focus on newbie-linux-users
20:55:06  <RichK67> eddi: cygwin?
20:55:35  <Eddi|zuHause> no... i mean check out a version of miniIN right after the split
20:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause> (branch creation)
20:55:42  <Mucht> if someone wants to read the article, I can forward the mail
20:55:44  <Hackykid> i'd try cygwin :-p
20:56:08  <Eddi|zuHause> apply the diff to that version
20:56:15  <RichK67> eddi: and then SVN update?
20:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause> then create a new diff from that patched version to the miniIN
20:56:35  <Eddi|zuHause> then apply that diff to current miniIN
20:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause> it _might_ work
20:57:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you could keep this clean miniIN around, if patches cause trouble
20:57:50  <RichK67> except what happens when the file revision number in the patch is greater than the split rev number?
20:58:12  <Darkvater> RichK67: the windows patch executable ONLY works with patch files that have DOS line endinges
20:58:17  <Darkvater> yes I know it's said, but that's how it is
20:59:40  <RichK67> ok
20:59:52  <Darkvater> fucking windows-tools :S
21:00:05  <RichK67> hey, its not as though this is/was exactly a trivial problem
21:00:22  <RichK67> fucking DOS-cli incompatible tools :)
21:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> what was the actual problem now?
21:00:59  <Hackykid> hmm, windows patch executable, is that one any good besides the lineendings stuff?
21:01:30  <Darkvater> never use it. Use tortoise or when it craps out, just ssh into my linux box and patch from there :)
21:01:39  <Eddi|zuHause> urgs...
21:01:47  <Hackykid> hehe
21:01:51  <Eddi|zuHause> 	return dx > dy ? dx : dy; <- have you never heard of MIN(x,y)?
21:02:02  <RichK67> DV: ahh... you mean the one that comes with Windows... nope, not using it... using/failing to use gnu patch
21:02:13  <Darkvater> there is no tool that comes with windows
21:02:21  <Hackykid> hmm?
21:02:21  <Eddi|zuHause> or MAX
21:02:24  <Darkvater> the gnu patch (patch.exe) is the one I am talking about
21:02:36  <Hackykid> hmm, interesting
21:02:50  <Hackykid> i think when i run that from cygwin, it handles the line-endings fine
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21:04:24  <Hackykid> hmm, indeed it does
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21:05:01  <RichK67> eddi: identical error.... checked out MiniIN @ 4980. applied smooth econ... same error, same line
21:05:32  <glx> RichK67: smooth ecnonomy has unix line endings
21:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause> fine, then not ;)
21:05:46  <RichK67> i use MingW32... does that have a diff tool that works?
21:06:06  <RichK67> blasted unix line endings ;)
21:06:16  <Hackykid> hmm dunno, i'd guess it has patch and diff too
21:06:17  <Darkvater> 22:58 < Darkvater> RichK67: the windows patch executable ONLY works with patch files that have DOS line endinges
21:06:21  <glx> I think patch worked for me before I update it with gnuwin32 patch
21:06:30  <Darkvater> did you try?
21:06:43  <Hackykid> unix2dos!
21:07:01  <peter1138> real os!
21:07:16  <peter1138> like windows with a full cygwin environment
21:07:23  <Hackykid> :-)
21:07:46  <Sacro> set up linux in QEmu and SSH in :P
21:08:25  <Darkvater> VMWare linux! and SSH :)
21:10:08  <Trenskow> Mac OS X here... rocks your pants off ! :D
21:10:20  * Darkvater bans all maccrap people
21:10:21  <Darkvater> there
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21:10:42  <Trenskow> Darkvater, OS ?
21:10:45  *** Jenkz [] has quit []
21:10:53  <Trenskow> :D
21:10:56  <Trenskow> linux i see :)
21:11:06  <Darkvater> ..
21:11:20  <Hackykid> hmm
21:11:31  <Darkvater> I'm just logged in to university machines
21:11:41  *** Belugas is now known as Belugas_Gone
21:11:54  <Trenskow> Darkvater, ah... Windows then ?
21:12:06  <Darkvater> but running suse 10.1 at home and would use it as well if I hadn't had a laptop around which is about 4 times faster and has windows on it
21:12:10  <Belugas_Gone> Good nigh guysd
21:12:25  <Darkvater> gn Belugas_Gone
21:12:35  <peter1138> why did i do that?
21:12:51  <Hackykid> hm?
21:12:57  <Darkvater> you farted?
21:12:57  <peter1138> i just quit evolution
21:13:01  <peter1138> and then restarted it
21:13:08  <glx> RichK67: reverted to patch.exe from msys and it works with unix eol
21:13:11  <Trenskow> I've runned both windows and linux in my pc days, but i won't never change mac os x
21:13:11  <Darkvater> ah
21:13:18  <Trenskow> im here for good :)
21:13:19  <Darkvater> ran
21:13:23  <Darkvater> run
21:13:26  <Darkvater> run dammit
21:13:27  <Darkvater> shit
21:13:34  <Trenskow> :)
21:13:36  <Darkvater> < *smack*
21:13:58  <peter1138> you won't *never* change?
21:14:03  <peter1138> so you will?
21:14:06  <RichK67> glx: hi, yes, i am trying Msys patch, but it still gives me errors
21:14:23  <glx> but it doesn't assert :)
21:14:53  <RichK67> lol - yeah, but doesnt apply either ;)
21:14:58  <glx> just examine .rej files after patching
21:15:26  <Hackykid> hmm
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21:17:29  <Hackykid> i just thought of something, because tortoise does a 3way diff when patching, it need the original source against which the patch was made, and it tries to download that rev
21:17:49  <Hackykid> now, cause the wc isnt the same branch as the patch, that would fail
21:18:11  <Hackykid> still no idea how to easily fix that, though :O
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21:19:25  <Eddi|zuHause> it might then work with the trunk revision right before the branch
21:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of the miniIN revision right afterwards
21:19:43  <Hackykid> hmm, yeah, thats possibly
21:19:45  <Hackykid> hmm, yeah, thats possible
21:20:29  <Hackykid> then you should be able to switch to miniin branch safely, and then you can make a diff against miniin
21:20:48  <Hackykid> or just do svn up
21:20:57  <Hackykid> (which does the 3way diffing too :-p)
21:21:12  * Sacro wants PBS
21:21:19  * Eddi|zuHause too
21:21:26  <RichK67> Hackykid: "just thought of something"... just what i explained early on; tortoise tries to get the source from the branch, not the trunk
21:21:45  <Hackykid> indeed
21:21:54  <Hackykid> i just remembered why it did that :-)
21:22:03  <RichK67> (not entirely stooopid, you know ;) )
21:22:57  <RichK67> so you reckon; check out trunk r4979, apply diff, switch to MiniIN branch, SVN update???
21:23:12  <Hackykid> yeah
21:23:17  <RichK67> ok ill try it
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21:24:17  <RichK67> before anyone says, its r4977 ;)
21:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause> this way will probably get less reliable in the future, when lots of things changed
21:24:51  <glx> RichK67: what is the current smooth economy version in miniIN?
21:25:10  <RichK67> its in patches/
21:25:24  <RichK67> r5006
21:25:30  <Brianetta> peter1138: Check PMs
21:25:59  <Eddi|zuHause> where can i find the patch you try to apply?
21:26:05  <peter1138> i know about that one
21:26:23  <peter1138> clearly i've not found the cause yet
21:26:33  <RichK67> try Smooth Economy patch thread ;)   or look for any post by Sirkoz (its in his sig)
21:26:57  <Sacro> hmm, openstreetmap is cool
21:27:02  <peter1138> but thanks :)
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21:31:44  <RichK67> Hackykid: looking better... ive done SVN update part, and it made it but with conflicts... i can resolve conflicts ;)
21:32:01  <RichK67> im going to try a slightly different method, see if i can reduce them more
21:33:38  <RichK67> btw, how do i remove a checkout via Tortoise???
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21:35:07  <Trenskow> a feature i would like very much is.... map turning
21:35:41  <glx> RichK67: just compare the 2 diffs :)
21:36:02  <RichK67> not revert... delete the whole checkout
21:36:11  <Hackykid> shift-delete?
21:36:12  <peter1138> just, uh, delete it?
21:36:13  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit ["Whoopsy"]
21:36:45  <RichK67> "D:\Develop is not a working copy"
21:37:02  <RichK67> im not a total idiot, of course i tried to delete it, it didnt work
21:37:03  <peter1138> with explorer. not tortoise.
21:37:39  <RichK67> "cannot delete. it is being used"
21:37:55  <Hackykid> hmm, and you sure its not?
21:38:03  <Hackykid> i think i had that prob =lem too once
21:38:06  <RichK67> only thing using it will be tortoies
21:38:29  <Hackykid> well, close all tortoise windows, and delete it with explorer?
21:38:56  <RichK67> tortoise is closed, except it has the hook into explorer for the right click
21:39:19  * Sacro fancies a network game with some newgrfs...
21:39:44  * RichK67 fancies going into JA2 and blasting some heads off :)
21:40:00  <Hackykid> hmm, well, the way i solved the problem was rebooting :-p
21:40:03  <RichK67> imagining them to be SVN repositories  ;)
21:40:13  <Brianetta> RichK67: CAn you send me a TGP patch?
21:40:26  <Brianetta> I'll compile it into the server
21:40:32  <Brianetta> We know that works (:
21:40:39  <peter1138> nini
21:41:12  <glx> RichK67: <-- the only difference between the patch in miniIN zip and the one from forum
21:42:01  <Eddi|zuHause> intresting idea... diff the diffs first ;)
21:42:20  <RichK67> brianetta:
21:42:21  <Hackykid> hmm, i dont think thats a diff of the diffs
21:42:42  <Brianetta> Got it (:
21:42:44  <RichK67> brianetta: its actually more buggy than it used to be ;)
21:42:48  <glx> I just changed the lines in source according to diff of diffs
21:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause> not directly, of course
21:43:03  <glx> but just 3 lines
21:43:10  <glx> not that hard to do by hand
21:43:14  <Hackykid> ah
21:44:01  <RichK67> hmm... i can delete all the contents of a checkout, but not the parent directory... and yes, that should be deletable post-reboot
21:47:25  <Brianetta> RichK67: It's OK
21:47:36  <Brianetta> Can you give me the cfg values for that last scenario you made?
21:47:59  <RichK67> lol - no!!! the seed is now a full int!
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21:48:07  <RichK67> i cant remember them
21:48:28  <Brianetta> terragenesis = true
21:48:28  <Brianetta> Anything else needed?
21:48:40  <RichK67> tgen_noise_seed = 0
21:48:55  <RichK67> lets dedicated server create a random map
21:48:57  <Brianetta> OK
21:49:00  <Brianetta> good good
21:49:32  <RichK67> options: mountainous (3), low water (1), rough/very rough (2/3)
21:50:20  <Brianetta> Too much land atm
21:50:41  <Eddi|zuHause> high water ;)
21:50:56  <RichK67> high water is close to "islands" at times :)
21:51:08  <Brianetta> RichK67: What sort of settings did you use for the last scn?
21:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> my map is mostly connected
21:52:16  <RichK67> sorry - i thought you meant the openttdcoop game i set up last night
21:52:28  <RichK67> err.. let me see
21:53:04  <Brianetta> Well, I did
21:55:11  <RichK67> ok - the 1955 map?
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21:55:28  <RichK67> hilly, medium water, smooth
21:55:36  <RichK67> 2,2,1
21:55:41  <Brianetta> tgen_smoothness = 1 ?
21:55:54  <RichK67> yup - looks like
21:56:03  <Brianetta> diff_custom = 0,3,0,1,500,4,2,2,0,0,0,1,2,1,1,1,0,0
21:56:14  <Brianetta> You have to remember what a PITA this is for dedicated servers
21:56:36  <RichK67> yup - the 2,2 in the middle are hilly, med water
21:56:53  <Brianetta> no
21:56:58  <Brianetta> the 2,1 toward rthe end are
21:57:15  <RichK67> oh!... ive been looking in the wrong place then;)
21:57:29  <RichK67> (no surprise there)
21:57:50  <Brianetta> OK, that's a good map
21:57:59  <Brianetta> diff_custom = 0,3,0,1,500,4,2,2,0,0,0,1,2,2,1,1,0,0
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21:58:50  <RichK67> Hackykid: same result, slightly different method... conflicts are good :)
21:59:10  <Sacro> Brianetta: new nightly map?
21:59:11  <Hackykid> what did you do?
21:59:57  <Brianetta> Sacro: Nope
22:00:04  <Brianetta> New #openttdcoop map
22:00:07  <Sacro> Brianetta: ah right
22:00:12  <Sacro> give them a challenge
22:00:34  <Brianetta> Might compile it into the nightly from time to time
22:00:38  <RichK67> oh! did they abandon last nights?
22:00:48  <Brianetta> RichK67: Difficulty settings were all wrong
22:00:57  <Sacro> i think there should be a MiniIN server with UKRS
22:01:01  <Brianetta> and the newgrfs misbehaved
22:01:14  *** Schamane_ [] has joined #openttd
22:01:14  <RichK67> something was flaky
22:01:24  <RichK67> valhalla had problems
22:01:33  <Brianetta> Well, it's compiled in now, so we know that what's in the cfg is what's in the game
22:01:51  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:02:22  <RichK67> great
22:02:30  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
22:02:45  <Brianetta> and it appears, as ever, to be happy to interoperate with an unpatched game.
22:02:55  *** Dred_furst [] has quit ["( :: NoNameScript 4.0 :: )"]
22:03:10  <Sacro> is TGP in the nigtly?
22:03:25  <Brianetta> no
22:03:35  <Brianetta> but it might be in mine from time to time
22:03:51  <Brianetta> because it's multiplayer-agnostic
22:03:55  <RichK67> its only on generate side; except if it ever goes live into nightly, im considering saving the map seed with the terrain options in the map
22:04:11  <Brianetta> so it can work with the regular nightly builds no problem, without modification of clients
22:04:19  <Darkvater> save the seed for?
22:04:23  <glx> RichK67: why save in the savegame?
22:04:38  <Brianetta> glx: Save into the cfg
22:04:40  <RichK67> debug, or "i want to repeat this map", etc.
22:04:59  <Darkvater> that definitely has no place in the savegame
22:05:36  <RichK67> so you think that since the map is repeatable, storing that info isnt useful?
22:05:37  <Brianetta> Darkvater: Not the saved game
22:05:41  <glx> if you "want to repeat this map" just create scenarios :)
22:05:52  <Brianetta> glx: No
22:06:11  <Brianetta> glx: With Perlin Noise, the same map can be generated on a different sized game
22:06:20  <RichK67> one big advantage of TGP is that it is repeatable and predictable; give everyone the same seed & settings, and you all get the same map
22:06:22  <Brianetta> I don't know if Rich did it that way
22:06:23  *** paulstuffins [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:06:31  <Darkvater> RichK67: wow, that is stunning
22:06:44  <RichK67> what is??
22:06:49  <Darkvater> did you know the current seed (_random_seeds[2]) does exactly the same thing?
22:06:50  <glx> Brianetta: I know
22:06:59  <Brianetta> glx: So everything scales
22:07:11  <Brianetta> Use a bigger map, get bigger continents inthe same size
22:07:25  <Brianetta> Ideal if you find a seed that makes your home country (:
22:07:39  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:07:39  *** Angst [] has quit ["gn"]
22:08:05  <glx> just add a button "display seed" and write it on a paper :)
22:08:09  *** Prof_Frink [] has joined #openttd
22:08:19  <Darkvater> glx: write it down on map generation :)
22:08:34  <RichK67> its also infinitely expandable, and currently generates heights about -250 to +580... so you can have undersea depths, and real cliffs etc once the map can handle it
22:08:36  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
22:08:44  *** paulstuffins [] has joined #openttd
22:08:51  <RichK67> DV: you dont know the map is a good one until you can no longer see the seed
22:09:04  <Darkvater> write it down in advance :)
22:09:28  <Darkvater> or get your monkey to do it ^^
22:09:34  <RichK67> there is one way around: get a good map in newgame. abandon, go into scengen. scengen has kept the last seed
22:09:55  <RichK67> then play to your hearts content with the settings...
22:10:04  <Brianetta> It could be saved into openttd.cfg
22:10:21  <Brianetta> as a commented-out seed line
22:10:41  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
22:10:51  <RichK67> i am going to add a button in the scengen generate screen to "generate as if newgame" to add all the towns, industries etc exactly as ifyou had started a newgame
22:11:08  *** Trippledence [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:11:36  <RichK67> the scengen controls are a bit clumsy (add industries drops a plague of industries...)
22:12:22  <RichK67> Brianetta: where is the game??? is it on openttdcoop???
22:12:42  <Brianetta> RichK67: Yes - just restarted with less water
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22:14:18  <Brianetta> RichK67: I need MOUNTAINS
22:14:24  <Brianetta> they clamour for alpinism
22:15:27  <Brianetta> tgen_smoothness - is bigger rougher?
22:15:32  * Brianetta pokes RichK67
22:15:37  <RichK67> very rough, yes
22:15:51  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
22:15:58  <RichK67> mountainous... and i will modify the persistence... its clearly too low atm
22:16:00  <Brianetta> Can terain go above high?
22:16:06  *** Trippledence [] has joined #openttd
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22:16:20  <Brianetta> It's 0,1,2
22:16:23  <Brianetta> can it do 3?
22:16:29  <RichK67> mountainous = 3
22:16:38  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
22:16:42  <Brianetta> tgen_smoothness = 3
22:16:50  <Brianetta> and landscape height = 3
22:16:55  <RichK67> yup
22:16:57  <Brianetta> Cool
22:17:01  <RichK67> landscape height?
22:18:40  <RichK67> _opt.diff.terrain_type = 3 = mountainous, _opt.diff.quantity_sea_lakes = 1 = low water
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22:24:45  <Darkvater> kkz
22:24:48  <Darkvater> goodnight all
22:24:55  <RichK67> gn... :)
22:25:01  <glx> gn Darkvater
22:25:17  * Darkvater force-feeds some coding-style rules to RichK67
22:25:19  <Darkvater> muhahaha
22:25:30  * RichK67 chokes ;)
22:25:54  *** Sionide [] has joined #openttd
22:25:54  <RichK67> hey, i can now have the mission of applying the rules everywhere i see... :)
22:26:04  <Darkvater> that's taken
22:26:05  <RichK67> muhahahaha
22:26:07  <Darkvater> < tron
22:26:12  <Darkvater> you'll have to fight him
22:26:36  <RichK67> im good at that... tho i think he doesnt want to play ;)
22:27:06  <Darkvater> you'll get yoo tiny soft behind whipped boia
22:27:11  <Darkvater> ugh
22:27:17  <Darkvater> really time now to sleep
22:27:31  <Ihmemies> now what was the pw to brianetta's nightly again :P
22:27:42  <Darkvater> gn RichK67, glx :)
22:27:44  <Darkvater> icantread
22:27:50  <Darkvater> or was that MB's? :P
22:27:55  <Ihmemies> it must have been changed
22:28:22  <Brianetta> Ihmemies: You get it from the page.  While you're there, you check you have the required grfs
22:28:30  <Brianetta> because I change the password when I change the grfs
22:28:39  <Brianetta>
22:28:48  <Ihmemies> uh, ok
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22:31:40  <Ihmemies> desync error all the time!
22:31:41  *** TinoM [] has quit ["Verlassend"]
22:32:01  <glx> correct grfs in correct order?
22:33:00  <Ihmemies> i installed that grf set and added those grf thingys to the config
22:33:07  <Ihmemies> i connected, stayed online a while and then desync :/
22:33:18  <Ihmemies> uhm
22:33:23  *** ^Cartman^ [] has quit ["Bunchie!"]
22:34:54  <RichK67> ouch desync
22:35:18  *** tokai [] has quit ["Don't give me logic, give me emotions!"]
22:35:29  <Ihmemies> i dont see a reason behind all these desyncs!
22:37:11  <Sacro> missing grfs?
22:39:51  <RichK67> hm
22:40:00  <RichK67> ive lost my mouse too :(
22:40:17  <RichK67> oops... low battery ;)
22:40:28  <Sacro> nasty
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22:42:37  *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["good night"]
23:01:29  <Brianetta> More than one newgrf section, Ihmemies?
23:01:33  <Brianetta> I've seen that before.
23:09:10  <Sacro> Brianetta: i didnt notice...
23:12:10  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
23:13:04  <RichK67> weird
23:13:25  <RichK67> brianetta: are many ppl getting desynced out of the coop?
23:15:43  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:16:35  <Mucht> RichK67: no
23:16:42  <Mucht> now its stable for all others but you
23:17:19  <Brianetta> Rich: No
23:17:28  <RichK67> hmm
23:17:31  <RichK67> pity
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23:26:07  <Sacro> ngiht all
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23:35:21  <Ihmemies> why the terrain has to be so hilly!
23:35:22  <Ihmemies> it works now
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