Log for #openttd on 11th June 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Toto... i don't think we're in #openttd anymore"
00:01:02  <MagusX> -_-
00:01:11  <MagusX> [Eddi|zuHause2]: same... lol
00:02:03  * Eddi|zuHause2 wonders if MagusX actually got that reference
00:02:18  <MagusX> =o
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00:04:46  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: hehehe
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00:06:18  <CrazyGoogle> [D]Shaman, here i was fighting some 1 milion NPC pirate:
00:06:19  <CrazyGoogle>
00:06:45  <CrazyGoogle> Domination War General =)
00:06:52  <[D]Shaman> nice
00:07:03  <RichK67> follow the yellow brick (rail)road ;)
00:07:53  <CrazyGoogle> thats how you get about 10 milions in one evening :o)
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00:08:32  <bulio> hey all
00:08:49  <bulio> I'm having a little trouble with OpenTTD
00:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67 \o/
00:09:03  <bulio> How do I get started?
00:09:03  <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause2: syn
00:09:10  <bulio> I don't exactly understand how ot play
00:09:20  <bulio> where can I find a good newbie turial?
00:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> go to
00:09:24  <CrazyGoogle> :o)
00:09:32  <bulio> *tutorial
00:09:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's everything you could wish for
00:09:38  <CrazyGoogle> it would be cool to have some "start here" video =)
00:09:39  <bulio> Which page on the wiki?
00:09:43  * valhallasw points to CrazyGoogle... just remove the crazy 8)
00:09:51  <bulio> 9)
00:09:54  <CrazyGoogle> valhallasw, why ?
00:09:57  <bulio> looked on google
00:10:01  <bulio> mostly specific tuts
00:10:03  <bulio> no newbiew ones
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00:10:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> how about this one?
00:10:56  <RichK67> bulio: also try orudge's site - it has some useful stuff too...   especially the bit on rail building, stations, signals, etc.
00:11:10  <bulio> thanks
00:12:19  * orudge !
00:13:06  <bulio> what I'd like to know is how to get passengers around, deliver mail ,etc.
00:14:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> all the information is there... you just have to read it, and try it out in the game
00:15:01  <RichK67> build 2 stations in towns, connect the track, put a train on the line with a passenger carriage and a mail van (or few), and give the train orders to go from one station to the other... the passengers and mail should come to you
00:15:26  <bulio> same for busses?
00:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> busses are easier, since the roads are already there ;)
00:15:52  <bulio> :P
00:15:54  <RichK67> yup - build bus station, connect roads, send out the busses
00:16:08  <bulio> and I can have 2 bus staitons send to one another in a town?
00:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah
00:16:23  <bulio> alright, I'll give it a whirl
00:16:28  <RichK67> yes, but you are paid by distance, so longer is better
00:16:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can have as many stations as you like
00:16:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> (until you run out of names, that is ;))
00:16:44  <RichK67> but too long may be too slow
00:16:47  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: thats not true
00:16:59  <Sacro> theres only 40 orders, and a finite number of station ids
00:17:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> let's not get nitpicky here ;)
00:17:32  <RichK67> sacro: dont confuse things in front of da newbie ;)
00:17:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> theoretically, one could just recompile with higher limits ;)
00:17:57  <RichK67> they are *big* limits
00:18:30  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: max of 4194304, then you run out of tiles
00:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> nah... just make the map bigger ;)
00:19:34  <bulio> and passengers will automatically use the bus?
00:19:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes... they don't even care where you carry them to, they just go along
00:19:58  <bulio> Ok
00:20:01  <RichK67> yes
00:20:03  <bulio> I have 2 stations in 2 towns
00:20:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is hopefully going to get more realistic in the future ;)
00:20:20  <bulio> so I choose in schedule go to station 1 Load, go to station 2 Load
00:20:22  <bulio> correct?
00:20:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should not use full load on passenger services... just the simple order will suffice
00:21:03  <RichK67> yeah, but if you dont load, it will still load whatever is waiting, just not wait for a *full* load
00:21:07  <bulio> so just do what?
00:21:09  <bulio> just stop?
00:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> then they will automatically unload, and load new passengers
00:21:40  <bulio> ok, great
00:21:45  <bulio> same for mail?
00:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
00:22:04  <bulio> ok
00:22:11  <bulio> and I need 2 lorrys in each city?
00:22:15  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: thats the biggest it can get :P
00:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: no, you just have to modify the map array ;)
00:22:36  <Sacro> when writing bash shell scripts, how do you pass all variables, ie not   
00:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> to allow for bigger indices
00:22:45  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: hehee
00:22:58  <RichK67> cya guys - im knackered
00:23:04  <Sacro> night RichK67
00:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> with map accesses all over the place, that shouldn't even be difficult
00:23:10  <RichK67> gn
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00:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> *accessors*
00:23:24  <Sacro> no bash scripters here?
00:23:36  * orudge bashes Sacro
00:23:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: i have no clue about bash, but mirc scripts use something like -
00:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> or $-
00:24:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> or whatever
00:24:09  <Sacro> hmm
00:24:10  <bulio> also, with trains I make train station for goods?
00:24:17  <orudge> $* or something, is it?
00:24:20  <Sacro> bulio: yep, you need a trainstation
00:24:21  <orudge> or maybe not taht
00:24:23  <orudge> $< perhaps?
00:24:25  <orudge> something like that
00:24:27  * orudge isn't completely sure
00:24:35  <Sacro> orudge: it might be actually, i was thinkg $*, $<, $@
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00:24:54  <orudge>
00:25:28  <Sacro> its $@
00:26:40  <bulio> I builty my station right next to a rubber plantation
00:26:45  <bulio> but nothing is awaiting
00:27:12  <glx> did you send a vehicle in it?
00:27:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have to send a train first
00:27:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> stations only accept something if a train actually goes there
00:27:55  <bulio> I did
00:28:13  <bulio> oh I see
00:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> also, the industry must be in the coverage area
00:28:24  <bulio> now do I use full load, or just the same as the bus?
00:28:37  <glx> full load for industries
00:28:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> for freight, usually use full load
00:28:49  <bulio> I got subsidery :P
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00:28:59  <bulio> *subsidy
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00:29:33  * Eddi|zuHause2 remembers how he got started with the game
00:29:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> back then... with the demo version of TT ;)
00:29:49  <bulio> :P
00:29:54  <bulio> its pretty amusing though
00:29:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was no manual
00:30:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> and no internet ;)
00:30:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had to learn track building from the AI ;)
00:30:15  <bulio> how large can towns grow?
00:30:21  <bulio> ^^;P
00:30:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> i often get towns > 40k inhabitants
00:33:29  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: i had TTO with a (photocopied) manual, and in game demos
00:33:49  <bulio> how do I attach a new car to a train?
00:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> i had a real TTO manual
00:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that was later :P
00:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> bulio: send it to depot
00:35:07  <bulio> it goes then leaves
00:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> and wait for it to get stopped there
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00:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have to use the "send to depot" button
00:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> on the right in the train view
00:35:44  <bulio> oh, thanks
00:36:00  <bulio> also, if I build a lorry near a town, mail automatically arrives?
00:36:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> it has nothing to do where you build the truck
00:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> only where it goes
00:37:08  <bulio> oh
00:37:16  <bulio> I have mail going between 2 towns now
00:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> as soon as it goes to a truck station, mail arrives there
00:37:28  <bulio> a train between a factory and plantation
00:37:30  <bulio> and a bus
00:37:36  <bulio> now what should I focus on?
00:37:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> trains
00:38:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> get a few lucrative freight lines
00:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> the longer the better
00:38:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> and then create a large passenger network
00:38:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> you need to deliver water and food to desert towns, to make them grow
00:39:12  <bulio> I can only get water from pumps?
00:39:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
00:39:21  <bulio> and where do I get food?
00:39:24  <bulio> Industries?
00:39:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> click on the industry
00:40:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> then it shows what it produces
00:41:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> some industries only produce things when you also deliver something to them
00:41:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> like factories, and oil refineries
00:42:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> but these secondary products usually give you more money
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00:43:18  <bulio> ok
00:43:26  <bulio> I just build a road network for water
00:43:36  <bulio> also, how can I zoom my map out?
00:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> click on the - button?
00:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> also the mouse wheel should work
00:44:12  <glx> mouse wheel works too
00:44:18  <bulio> that zooms screen
00:44:34  <bulio> not mini-map
00:44:42  <glx> you can't
00:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is not possible
00:45:22  <bulio> ok
00:46:22  <bulio> and even if there no mail and passengers at stations, keep them going?
00:47:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should play around a little by yourself, i think
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01:02:51  <Sacro> gah its too hot
01:03:41  <Sacro> hmm, theres no channel topic
01:03:53  <Sacro> there it is
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02:38:15  <bulio> how do I sell a vehicle?
02:39:32  <bulio> nvm
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06:38:48  <MeusH> hi
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07:12:14  <MiHaMiX> hi
07:12:32  <lws1984> hi
07:17:50  <CIA-3> tron * r5222 /trunk/ai/default/default.c: Misc. smaller changes, mostly const, variable scope and replacing some magic numbers by enums
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09:00:25  <peter1138> hmm
09:00:27  <peter1138> r2652
09:00:31  <peter1138> that was a while ago
09:00:58  <Tron> ?
09:02:07  <peter1138> using a laptop i've not used for a while
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09:02:38  <peter1138> p233, 800x600
09:02:39  <TL|Away> michi_cc / orudge: ping
09:02:44  <peter1138> probably a good test for older hardware
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09:09:17  <RichK67> hi all
09:09:22  <TL|Away> hi RichK67
09:10:06  <RichK67> thanks for setting up the build sequence - it seems to be going well
09:10:13  <TL|Away> good good :)
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09:21:02  <Tron> blathijs, Darkvater, TrueLight: <-- can this be closed as "not a bug in ottd, but gdb"?
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09:37:09  <RichK67> im trying to come up with ideas for the TGP generation screen in both the NewGame and ScenGen versions.... current ideas below:
09:37:32  <RichK67>   items to add to both:
09:37:32  <RichK67>      no. of towns, no. of industries,
09:37:32  <RichK67>      Use TerraGenesis / Traditional map
09:37:32  <RichK67>
09:37:32  <RichK67>      items to add to just ScenGen version:
09:37:33  <RichK67>      Generate as NewGame which has checkboxes for:
09:37:35  <RichK67>      Towns, Industries, Trees, Rocks, Lighthouses, Transmitters
09:37:37  <RichK67>      Max Terrain height
09:37:39  <RichK67>
09:37:41  <RichK67>      Map Specials:
09:37:43  <RichK67>      Flat height 1 fill
09:37:45  <RichK67>      No water
09:37:52  <RichK67> any other ideas??
09:38:48  <TrueLight> Does anyone have a 64bit disassembler for Windows Files?
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09:40:54  <TrueLight> (or rather an objdump, but mingw doesn't support 64bit yet? :()
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09:53:23  <[D]Shaman> ooo I like those ideas RichK67 :o
09:53:32  <RichK67> any others?
09:53:52  <RichK67> ive been asked for all of them at different points
09:54:08  <[D]Shaman> not at this moment :o
09:54:21  <anboni> RichK67, maybe a toggle for snow in temperate?
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09:55:17  <[D]Shaman> anboni: that == setting snow height > 13.
09:55:20  <RichK67> that is a different issue; snow in temperate is a separate development - and for the moment needs to stay separate
09:55:30  <RichK67> ty - yes, snowline height
09:55:32  <[D]Shaman> you -can- disable snow in temperate allready.
09:55:44  <[D]Shaman> people are just lazy and want a checkbox somewhere :/
09:56:07  <anboni> yeah, i know it's possible.. but wherever it's settable now, it should be settable at map generation time :)
09:56:18  <[D]Shaman> it is?
09:56:29  <[D]Shaman> do patch settings -before- you load a game?
09:57:00  <anboni> i believe it's a patch setting atm, which is fine for the moment, but eventually it should move :)
09:57:06  <RichK67> anboni is right.. once the snowline height is set, you can move the snowline down lower easily, but any tile already painted snow doesnt un-snow automatically
09:57:19  <RichK67> so you cant really move it up
09:57:39  * [D]Shaman nods
09:57:59  <[D]Shaman> maybe (for future usage) add something that does check that every now and then? \
09:58:17  <RichK67> i think i may have the snow in temp patch add that onto the TGP screen; rather than the other way around
09:58:25  <[D]Shaman> as in, check patch setting vs old setting (old being the setting it was started with) and 'modify' the terrain accordingly
09:58:47  <Rubidium> maybe something with the type of trees; only trees with leaf, only trees with needles etc (or mostly leaf trees below ... and mostly trees with needles above that)
09:59:15  <RichK67> really, it would be better to have the Tile-tick un-snow the ground depending on the current snow line height
09:59:25  <anboni> RichK67      Generate as NewGame which has checkboxes for:
09:59:25  <anboni> RichK67      Towns, Industries, Trees, Rocks, Lighthouses, Transmitters   <--- i assume 'checkboxes' here impies a density selection as well?
10:00:01  <[D]Shaman> [RichK67]: really, it would be better to have the Tile-tick un-snow the ground depending on the current snow line height << That's what i was saying ^^
10:00:08  <RichK67> not yet; that may go onto an "Advanced" panel... picking actual numbers can be a pain
10:00:13  <[D]Shaman> only my idea was more bloated :P
10:01:44  <RichK67> Rubidium: tree types are not specified, so it would be a lot of hardcoded values, that would look silly if/when someone loads a newgrf that changed them... but that is their problem ;)
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10:02:00  <anboni> oh, i think the current TGP (well.. the 5048 patch you posted a week or 2 ago) places a bit too many transmitters in desert... i really have a metric fuckload of those things sitting around
10:03:58  <RichK67> lol - something is weird with transmitters; they appear like a plague... i didnt modify the code at first; and was getting dozens of the things on a 256x256. i then toned it down to 15, and increased the "search for a near transmitter" test radius; they still clump together... i then checked original maps; and they were doing it too... very weird
10:04:14  <Rubidium> maybe you could do something with the distribution and sizes of the towns, like big towns near the coast, with some secondary industries and small towns in land with primary industries
10:04:19  <anboni> heh interesting behaviour :)
10:05:35  <RichK67> Rubidium: good one; ive thought of a "bias towns towards water" effect - not optional, but built in. sort of "if the town tile is within 10 of water, move the centre to only 3 from the nearest water"
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10:06:30  <RichK67> it was frustrating with the nice new TGP coasts to have a lovely lake/inland sea, and yet the towns were just too far from the waters edge to run passengers from ...
10:07:10  <Rubidium> that is also a good idea, but mine is more orientated on the whole map, yours just on areas around water
10:09:11  <RichK67> hmm... yeah - a "separate industries into regions" patch... iron ore in one area, steel mills in another, kind of thing
10:10:11  <anboni> iron/copper ore and coalmines should reside in the more hilly/mountainous areas
10:10:25  <anboni> sorta clustered together too
10:10:37  <anboni> steel mills should be near(ish) water :)
10:10:43  <RichK67> doesnt follow at all anboni... Selby Coal field in UK is <100ft above sea level
10:11:05  <RichK67> or rather the land surface is
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10:11:19  <anboni> really? hmm.. guess i was misinformed then:)
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10:11:41  <RichK67> in fact, a lot of UK coal mines used to extend out into the North Sea!
10:11:42  <Rubidium> maybe scatter more 'rocky' ground around the mines
10:11:47  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: maybe try n make Transmitters stay near towns?
10:11:51  <RichK67> rub: good one
10:11:56  <[D]Shaman> after all, they are used for communication
10:12:14  <RichK67> transmitters will be biassed onto hills, lighthouses biassed to headlands
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10:13:13  <RichK67> (take average height of surrounding area: for transmitters, average must be lower than central point; for lighthouses, do similar, but count water tiles)
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10:14:46  <Rubidium> too bad that industries cannot be on sloped land; I would like a forrest on a slope and if you transport more than X of wood, the chance of a landslide (destroying the industry) increases
10:15:50  <[D]Shaman> lol
10:16:18  <anboni> is desert supposed to not have any lighthouses?
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10:18:36  <RichK67> that is a quirk of the gui... it disables lighthouse button to have the desert button instead!
10:19:36  <RichK67> Rubidium: forests are about the only industry that looks good on uneven ground; i experimented with that, but didnt like the look of forests with foundations underneath
10:21:35  <RichK67> ah.. deserts, yes that reminds me; have the ability to set the "turn to desert below height"  currently hard-coded to 4 I think
10:25:21  <[D]Shaman> hmf might have to spend some time investigating how tgp works :o
10:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: create graphics of sloped forests ;)
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10:26:17  <RichK67> all 78 angles (or however many it is)... in snow and temperate versions.... SEP ... Someone Else's Problem ;)
10:26:29  <anboni> [D]Shaman, has a patch that works against trunk 5147 (and probably later revs as well, that's just the one i'm running it on :) )
10:26:48  <[D]Shaman> anboni: I use MiniIN.. it has tgp by default :P
10:27:15  <anboni> that'll make it even easier :)
10:27:21  <[D]Shaman> but I'm interested in 'how' it works
10:27:25  <RichK67> MiniIN TGP is out of date, and a bit buggy.. my current dev version is the one to work from
10:27:38  <anboni> does MiniIN still have bridges, after that got axed from trunk again?
10:27:44  <[D]Shaman> and maybe be able to duplicate something similar in C# for a mud-style game
10:27:49  <RichK67> have a read in tgp.c - i think its one of the most thoroughly commented files in OTTD
10:28:29  <peter1138> newindustries supports sloped ground, iirc...
10:28:47  <RichK67> anboni: no, i synced with trunk, and removed bridges.... Tron *really* doesnt want it in the wild yet - I will respect that
10:29:03  <RichK67> morning peter!
10:29:19  <anboni> i really dont understand what tron has against bridges.. it's working great
10:29:20  <peter1138> hello
10:29:28  <[D]Shaman> RichK67: And i thank you for that, else i would be absolutely clueless about how it worked ^^
10:29:53  <[D]Shaman> I wonder if PN works for a 2d surface
10:29:53  <peter1138> he has nothing against the bridges ... he wrote most of it
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10:30:36  <RichK67> Shaman: it wouldnt have a hope of being accepted into trunk without heavy commenting, as it uses a TON of "magic" numbers; mainly random seeds & primes, but it was hard to follow before
10:30:55  <[D]Shaman> ye :p
10:31:11  <[D]Shaman> do you think it'd work for a 2d landscape? :o
10:31:25  <RichK67> err... it is a 2D landscape ;)
10:31:55  <[D]Shaman> ah
10:31:57  <[D]Shaman> i see now
10:32:13  <[D]Shaman> it works twice, once for the 2d layout, other for the 3d heights
10:32:22  <RichK67> ok - its a 2D perlin space... has X & Y, returns the Perlin Noise value for that position; i just use that for height
10:32:32  <Tron> anboni: i wrote it, so let me decide when "it's working great"
10:33:05  <Tron> [D]Shaman: ottd is a 2D game, i.e. the map is 2 dimensional
10:33:06  <RichK67> Tron: I can assure you it wont go into MiniIN unless it is in trunk
10:33:25  <[D]Shaman> Tron: It still uses the 3rd dimension, even though the game is 2d
10:33:28  <Tron> thoough it has "shortcuts", i.e. tunnels and bridges, but still it's 2D
10:34:03  <Tron> [D]Shaman: not really, and i don't mean the graphics engine "sprites == 2D"
10:34:04  <RichK67> nope - OTTD is 2D, because you cannot ask "what is at position X,Y,Z?".. its only X&Y
10:34:05  <Tron> the map is 2D
10:34:11  <anboni> Tron, sorry, i thought it was celestar who wrote it.. anyway, for what it's worth i've been running a game for 80ish game years with them turned on (and used extensively) and apart from some minor graphics glitches, i haven't seen any problems with it
10:34:12  <Tron> it has "height"
10:34:18  <Tron> but that doesn't make it 3D
10:34:18  <[D]Shaman> hm
10:34:23  <[D]Shaman> oddness :o
10:34:38  <peter1138> RichK67: well, you can for vehicles...
10:35:14  <Tron> the map is a 2 dimensional grid
10:35:40  <Tron> it's a rectangle, not a cuboid
10:36:09  <[D]Shaman> hm
10:36:11  <[D]Shaman> interesting
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10:36:22  <peter1138> like doom :D
10:36:32  <RichK67> not quite the same: it is still "what is at X&Y, with the height at Z"; its still primary index of X&Y, then checking the data of that position to find something with a height... hmm.. sounds a bit semi-3D is suppose
10:37:24  <Tron> for operations you do on the map you can handle it as 2D + wormholes
10:37:51  <RichK67> ah.. time travel *is* possible then ;)
10:38:03  <[D]Shaman> heh
10:38:04  <anboni> RichK67, only if you use the cheat :)
10:38:19  <[D]Shaman> it's not a cheat, it's a 'debug function'
10:38:29  <anboni> right
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10:42:00  <RichK67> ok - im going for some game time... bbl
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11:08:34  <[D]Shaman> Perlin noise is rather.. comples O_O
11:08:37  <[D]Shaman> but it works
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11:12:03  <Trenskow> where is NetworkGameList defined?
11:12:08  <Trenskow> can't seem to find it
11:12:44  <Trenskow> ahh network.h :)
11:16:58  <[D]Shaman> TGP will -always- generate the same terrain if you use the same seed, right?
11:17:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> unless the algorithm is changed, yes
11:18:20  <[D]Shaman> sweet
11:18:28  <anboni> i could imagine changes to the water, hills etc settings would give different results though
11:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the fine thing with pseodo-random numbers ;)
11:21:16  <MagusX> yo
11:21:31  <MagusX> good morning all ( 08:21 )
11:23:07  <[D]Shaman> lo
11:24:20  <[D]Shaman> hm, tgp + console colors == funky shit :P
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11:28:43  <Sacro> afternoon all
11:29:10  <[D]Shaman> lo
11:32:04  <Sacro> quiet in here
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12:08:35  <Trenskow> what is the date format?
12:08:49  <Trenskow> Months or days?
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12:08:57  <Trenskow> looks like days
12:09:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's days since 1.1.1920
12:10:47  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5223 /branch/utf8/string.c: [utf8] Simplify utf8 string decoding slightly
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12:18:37  <CIA-3> peter1138 * r5224 /branch/utf8/ (90 files in 11 dirs): [utf8] - Sync with r5165:r5223 from trunk
12:18:55  <peter1138> 90 o_O
12:29:35  <[D]Shaman> O_O
12:29:41  <[D]Shaman> people been working :P
12:29:47  <[D]Shaman> or.. you haven't updated much ^^
12:32:58  <peter1138> only 58 revisions
12:34:33  <TrueLight> and commits in other branches too
12:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> that makes 1.5 files per revision ;)
12:34:37  <TrueLight> so it is all fake :)
12:37:08  <TrueLight> *d++ = Utf8Consume(&s); <- peter1138, you call this simplifying?
12:37:14  <TrueLight> isn't it the same as *d = Utf8Consume(&s) + 1;
12:37:15  <TrueLight> ?
12:37:27  <TrueLight> or is d++
12:37:28  <TrueLight> hmmz
12:37:48  <TrueLight> more simple it isn't for sure :p
12:39:01  <Tron> ++ comes before *
12:39:27  <TrueLight> Tron: so the orignal line: *d++ has a * that does nothing?
12:39:32  <Tron> or rather the they have the same priority, but they're right associative
12:39:36  <TrueLight> (the original line was: *d++;)
12:39:50  <Tron> yes
12:40:09  <Tron> well, not entierly nothing.
12:40:14  <Tron> it could cause a SEGFAULT
12:40:18  <TrueLight> so it would be a bit more pretty if the lines would be: *d = Utf8...; d++;
12:40:20  <TrueLight> hehehe
12:40:41  <Tron> *pointer++ is a pretty common expression in C
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12:40:51  <TrueLight> Tron: yeah, but not while assiging a value to it
12:40:53  <TrueLight> it is confusing
12:41:07  <Tron> especially when assigning a value
12:41:43  <Tron> you'll see this in about every non-trivial program, which uses pointers
12:41:56  <TrueLight> I have seen many code, but rarely they do it
12:42:08  <TrueLight> simply because it is hard to read
12:42:21  <TrueLight> (more: what was the intension of the programmer, did he know what order it will be excuted?)
12:43:09  <Tron> if he doesn't know the evaluation order he shouldn't use pointers at all
12:43:17  <TrueLight> but how to check.... ;)
12:43:50  <Tron> simple: if he doesn't know that, his pointer arithmetics will go bonkers for sure and in the end segfault
12:43:54  <TrueLight> btw Tron, ANSI doesn't specify the order of which operators of the same class are executed
12:44:02  <Tron> it does
12:44:09  <TrueLight> ANSI doesn't for sure
12:44:42  <Tron> wanna bet my month income versus yours it specifies what gets evaluated first in *d++?
12:45:00  <TrueLight> my monthly income? Haha, that is always a bad deal for you :)
12:45:06  <TrueLight> (I can give you it right now: 0.00)
12:45:18  <Tron> oh, you can't have less income than me (;
12:45:47  <TrueLight> The order in which the operands are evaluated is not specified in the ANSI standard.
12:45:51  <TrueLight> "The order in which the operands are evaluated is not specified in the ANSI standard."
12:46:36  <peter1138> *foo++ = bar; is fairly common. but i can change it if you insist
12:46:49  <TrueLight> peter1138: no, I just asked if you really considered it more simple :p
12:46:50  <peter1138> (the original *d++ on its own was of course wrong)
12:47:01  <Sacro> *foo++ = bar is just wrong
12:48:11  <peter1138> TrueLight: it's less lines, it must be ;)
12:49:13  <peter1138> crap, overspent last month
12:49:20  <peter1138> -55k in the red :/
12:49:30  <TrueLight> I hope you are talking about OpenTTD
12:49:36  <Sacro> peter1138: OTTD or IRL?
12:49:37  <peter1138> hehe
12:49:39  <peter1138> yes, ottd
12:49:44  <TrueLight> pfew
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12:50:19  <Tron> sigh, can't find the right words to search for in the standard right now, but let me explain:
12:50:27  <Tron> *(d++)
12:51:17  <Tron> wait, i think i found it
12:51:17  <Darkvater> \o/
12:51:20  <peter1138> d++ returns d before the ++
12:51:31  <peter1138> s/the/it does the/
12:51:35  <Sacro> Darkvater: ?
12:51:45  <Darkvater> Holland plays at 15:00
12:51:47  <Darkvater> in 9 minutes
12:51:51  <Darkvater> \o///////////////
12:51:54  <Darkvater> cheerios
12:51:57  * Sacro doesnt like football
12:52:14  <Tron> "Within each major subclause, the operators have the same precedence. Left- or right-associativity is
12:52:14  <Tron> indicated in each subclause by the syntax for the expressions discussed therein."
12:52:18  <Hagbard_Ub> Soccer*
12:52:23  <Tron> TrueLight: found it
12:52:33  <TrueLight> Tron: url?
12:52:34  <Tron> §6.5 footnote 59
12:52:40  <Sacro> Hallo: football :P
12:52:50  <Sacro> Hagbard_Ub: football even :P
12:53:05  <Hagbard_Ub> Sacro, Soccer
12:53:05  <Tron> sorry, footnote 71
12:53:12  <Hagbard_Ub> Football is US
12:53:17  <Hagbard_Ub> Soccer = Europe
12:53:25  <anboni> Sacro, football is that US game where they rarely touch the ball with their feet
12:53:26  <peter1138> football's ok. it keeps the shops emptier
12:53:30  <MagusX> lol
12:53:47  <MagusX> Sacro: and there are more punchs than goals
12:53:48  <MagusX> lol
12:53:52  <Sacro> anboni: no Football is the name of the game
12:53:59  <Tron> TrueLight: no url, just google for iso c standard "comittee draft" (you won't find anything better without to pay)
12:54:02  <Sacro> Football (soccer)
12:54:02  <Sacro> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
12:54:02  <Sacro> (Redirected from Soccer
12:54:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> the Football/Soccer is entirely a problem inside the english language
12:54:12  <MagusX> no
12:54:15  <Tron> (i have the full thing, but i'm doing compiler construction at uni)
12:54:19  <MagusX> in british
12:54:31  <MagusX> is football = soccer
12:54:44  <Sacro> yep, theres football, and american football
12:54:46  <MagusX> not in US
12:54:47  <peter1138> in english football is football. soccer is also football
12:55:00  <peter1138> american football... is sort of rugby
12:55:02  <MagusX> well
12:55:04  <Sacro> i hardly hear it call soccer
12:55:14  <MagusX> i prefer soccer, its more peaceful ^^
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12:56:26  <Sacro> i prefer formula 1
12:57:25  * XeryusTC shakes hands with Sacro
12:57:30  <TrueLight> Tron: googling on it is indeed impossible
12:57:37  <Born_Acorn> In wacky language football = coleslaw
12:57:52  <Born_Acorn> or some other sport.
12:57:56  <Sacro> XeryusTC: why may i ask?
12:58:12  <XeryusTC> because i also prefer F1 over soccer
12:58:25  <Tron> TrueLight: try its number: ISO/IEC 9899
12:58:28  <Sacro> ah right, i just been sat watching the british grand prix
12:58:36  <MagusX> nice race
12:58:40  <MagusX> alonso owns
12:58:42  <XeryusTC> quite boring
12:58:46  <peter1138> in french, Born_Acorn = mustard
12:58:52  <Born_Acorn> Yes!
12:58:53  <MagusX> im a bit sad about Honda
12:58:53  <Born_Acorn> Its true!
12:59:02  <MagusX> they have good cars for training
12:59:16  <MagusX> but they dont have the same power at race
12:59:17  <Tron> TrueLight: preferebly 9899:1999
12:59:19  <Sacro> yeah, woulda been nice to see button doing well, or maybe even coulthard
12:59:34  <MagusX> i was talking about Barrichelol
12:59:35  <MagusX> lol
12:59:40  <MagusX> Barrichelol
12:59:45  <XeryusTC> coulthard did well, but not good enough
12:59:48  <MagusX> yeah
13:00:15  <MagusX> Shumacher got the 2º place almost in end
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13:00:51  <MagusX> The problem of honda is they Traction Control
13:01:03  <MagusX> the motor is cutting when it should not
13:01:26  <Sacro> yeah
13:01:27  <MagusX> and on this kind of race, affects directly, on curves
13:01:32  <Sacro> nah, button is better
13:01:35  <MagusX> *corners
13:01:44  <MagusX> >Sacro<: well, both are good IMO
13:01:53  <MagusX> the problem is the car :/
13:02:02  <XeryusTC> it is always the car
13:02:16  <MagusX> ok ok not 100% the car
13:02:22  <MagusX> but at least 50% of the fault is the car
13:02:29  <XeryusTC> although drivers with more experience have an advantage
13:02:38  <TrueLight> Tron: can't locate it.. oh well, I am pretty sure some standard never defeined the precedence, but who cares anyway :p
13:02:48  <MagusX> yeah...
13:02:56  <TrueLight> I still find it unreadable, even new standards do define it nicely
13:03:02  <TrueLight> :)
13:03:05  <TrueLight> brb, reboot
13:03:18  <Tron> TrueLight: even K&R mention the very example of *d++ = *s++, so it's there all the way back to the seventies
13:03:49  <[D]Shaman> heh @ tv.. it's saying S&M vs NED :p
13:04:52  <Tron> TrueLight: maybe you're confusing it with the order in which side effects between two sequence points happen, this is indeed undefined
13:05:53  <Tron> as a consequence f() + g() doesn't guarantee that f is called before g
13:06:04  <Tron> but that has nothing to do with associativity
13:06:37  <Tron> and neither operator precedence
13:06:59  <Tron> f() + g() * h() <-- the 3 calls may happen in any order
13:07:17  <Tron> (in Java it would be left to right, btw)
13:07:46  <Tron> (so f,g,h, not g,h,f as one might expect)
13:14:38  <Trenskow> i've created a patch
13:14:50  <Trenskow> it displayes game age in the server list in the network window
13:15:05  <Trenskow> (in years)
13:16:40  <Sacro> Trenskow: nice
13:17:37  <Trenskow> ill just upload it to patches on sf
13:18:46  <Sacro> cool
13:20:01  <XeryusTC> is sf still being used?
13:20:39  <Trenskow> there you go
13:21:54  <[D]Shaman> XeryusTC: 0-1 for us.
13:22:06  <peter1138> hmm, nv driver's gone slow :/
13:22:17  <Trenskow> it's made on a trunk checkout from yesterday, so it should be no problem applying
13:22:21  <[D]Shaman> won't be long till it's 0-2 if they keep it up like that :o
13:22:24  <Trenskow> if you want to oc
13:22:37  <Trenskow> [D]Shaman, dutch ?
13:23:44  <[D]Shaman> yes
13:24:00  <Trenskow> gl
13:24:04  <[D]Shaman> ta
13:24:23  <[D]Shaman> from how it's being played now, serbia doesn't stand a chance >_<
13:24:32  <Qball> shame
13:24:34  <Trenskow> i't look like yea
13:25:49  <XeryusTC> [D]Shaman: i don't care about soccer :P
13:26:02  <[D]Shaman> XeryusTC: Free excuse to get drunk tonight ;)
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13:27:34  <MagusX> owned
13:27:51  <MagusX> who is playing now?
13:28:03  <MagusX> ( i mean on WC )
13:28:15  <XeryusTC> [D]Shaman: i would be hapier if it was a good excuse to get drunk YESTERDAY
13:28:21  <XeryusTC> i have school tomorow :(
13:28:21  <[D]Shaman> dutch versus serbia montenegra
13:28:24  <[D]Shaman> XeryusTC: England won? :o
13:28:28  <MagusX> ah..
13:28:34  <MagusX> yes
13:28:50  <MagusX> 1x0
13:28:54  <blathijs> Tron: well, I am still experiencing the problem (last time I checked anyway..)
13:29:07  <blathijs> Tron: but if I'm the only one with the problem, feel free to close it
13:29:24  <Tron> blathijs: well, is it a bug in ottd or gdb?
13:29:31  <MagusX> what problem?
13:29:44  <Tron> if gdb, then there's nothing we can do
13:29:51  <Tron> except fixing gdb
13:29:51  <MagusX> gdb?
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13:31:38  <MeusH> hi
13:31:38  <MeusH> Alltaken here?
13:31:38  <MeusH> no
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13:34:48  <Trenskow> i'm thinking about creating a filter window too for the network server list
13:35:10  <Trenskow> so you can filter out version difference servers, protected, full etc
13:35:12  <blathijs> Tron: true, but it worked before :-)
13:35:24  <Tron> before what?
13:35:28  <blathijs> Tron: I shall try older openttd revisions, see if that fixes it
13:35:44  <blathijs> might have been openttd changes broke it, or gdb upgrades did
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13:36:34  <MeusH> Trenskow: that's great
13:36:45  <MeusH> I'm looking forward too see it :)
13:37:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> "looking forward to seeing"
13:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> (that is one of the strangest constructions in the english language i encountered)
13:39:27  <Trenskow> hehe
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13:43:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... it really makes absolutely no sense...
13:43:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> on every other occurence of "to" you use the infinitive
13:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> except when using "looking forward to"
13:44:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> then you use gerundive
13:44:44  <peter1138> blathijs: it works in some gdb, and not others. i think it's a gdb bug
13:50:14  <MeusH> Does anyone know how to automate work in Blender?
13:50:15  *** jonty-comp [] has quit ["Au reviour!"]
13:50:28  <MeusH> I need to do 24 frames of animation
13:50:43  *** TrueLight [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
13:50:44  <MeusH> in each frame one mesh will rotate by 15 degrees, and the other one will rotate by -15 degrees
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13:50:53  <MeusH> anyone, ideas? Please
13:52:14  <MeusH> Alltaken rotated an object for his light setup renderings
13:52:32  <MeusH> I just don't know whether he scripted it or made a bunch of frames by hand
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13:53:10  *** TL|Away is now known as TrueLight
13:53:38  <TrueLight> bah, sometimes a kernel module can crash just too much
13:55:27  <lws1984> who scored?
13:55:40  * Darkvater slaps lws1984
13:56:03  <Darkvater> that'll teach ya
13:56:07  * lws1984 is not near a TV
13:56:36  <Darkvater> lws1984: where am I from?
13:56:42  <lws1984> erm...
13:56:47  * lws1984 does not actually know
13:56:47  <Darkvater> *hint* /whois
13:57:01  <lws1984> oh right
13:57:03  <lws1984> duh
13:57:17  * lws1984 slaps himself in the head with a cluebyfour
13:58:27  <Darkvater> :)
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14:03:38  *** jonty-comp [] has quit ["Au reviour!"]
14:06:19  <[D]Shaman> Darkvater: Yer 40 minutes late for that :/
14:07:19  *** moebius_ [n=moebius@] has joined #openttd
14:09:15  <Born_Acorn> Darkvater must be using an olden time communications system that recieves things 40 minutes later.
14:12:53  *** e1ko [] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.67+ [SeaMonkey 1.0.2/2006051612]"]
14:15:21  <Trenskow> were are the window identifiers defined?
14:15:45  <MeusH> look for widgets
14:15:49  <MeusH> in *_gui.c files
14:16:16  <Trenskow> thx
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14:18:05  <Trenskow> were is eg. WC_NETWORK_STATUS_WINDOW defined
14:18:42  <Trenskow> or WC_NETWORK_WINDOW
14:18:59  <glx> window.h I think
14:19:18  <Trenskow> no :S
14:19:33  <glx> your editor can't search in files?
14:19:46  <Trenskow> doing a find in project (xcode), no definition turns up
14:19:55  <Trenskow> only references
14:20:17  <glx> openttd.h
14:21:17  <Trenskow> ahh.. that file's not a part of the xcode project :)
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14:24:17  <MeusH> Trenshow: are you use Linux right now?
14:26:35  <Tobin> Trenskow: The Xcode project file is out of date.
14:26:54  <Tobin> MeusH: If he's using Linux then he wouldn't be able to use Xcode.
14:27:11  <Tobin> Barring the possibility he's using MOL.
14:29:41  <MeusH> XCode seemed to be a Linuxy name for me
14:29:51  <MeusH> like XChat or BitchX
14:29:54  <MeusH> ahh
14:30:11  <MeusH> I thought I'd use xcode, as I'm not good in VIM :)
14:30:54  <MeusH> cu
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14:36:30  <[s]Animat> Hello everybody,
14:36:51  <Prof_Frink> Hi Doctor [s]Animat !
14:36:58  <[s]Animat> Prof_Frink, how are you?
14:37:16  <Prof_Frink> I's good
14:37:50  <[s]Animat> excellent. I'm after some help with openttd, do you think you could help?
14:38:22  <Prof_Frink> possibly
14:38:45  <[s]Animat> ok, my problem is misbehaving trains... if you get what i mean.
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14:39:18  <Prof_Frink> Going down the wrong tracks?
14:39:38  <[s]Animat> yes :P
14:40:06  <Prof_Frink> Try using waypoints
14:40:11  <[s]Animat> what happens is, even though i tell them to go to waypoint x, they decide to change direction at a station and go the LONGEST way possible
14:40:24  <[s]Animat> why do they INSIST on changing direction>?
14:40:56  <Prof_Frink> Dunno, I play with train reversing at end of line only
14:41:12  <[s]Animat> but how would i do it in multiplayer?
14:41:40  <Prof_Frink> put a waypoint immediately after the station exit
14:41:54  <[s]Animat> ok thanks i'll try that
14:43:06  <[s]Animat> oh and when they reach a waypoint they reverse also
14:43:34  <Prof_Frink> hmm, that sounds wrong.
14:43:45  <[s]Animat> yes it's disheartening
14:44:07  <[s]Animat> they're very disobedient
14:46:39  <[s]Animat> ok if i go 'non-stop' through the waypoint at the end of a station it seems to work
14:47:24  <Prof_Frink> [s]Animat: are you using real waypoints or ttdpatch-style waypoints?
14:48:14  <[s]Animat> i don't know
14:48:14  <[s]Animat> ?
14:48:17  <[s]Animat> how do i tell?
14:48:39  <Prof_Frink> are you building them with the waypoint button or the station button?
14:48:44  <[s]Animat> waypoint
14:48:47  <[s]Animat> button
14:49:01  <Prof_Frink> hmm, that sounds wrong.
14:49:04  <[s]Animat> 'Convert Waypoint' to rail
14:49:25  <[s]Animat> if i set it to 'Train reverse at end of tracks only' it works beautifully
14:49:41  <[s]Animat> but it's a disaster otherwise
14:50:03  <Prof_Frink> yeah, that option needs removing.
14:50:24  <[s]Animat> but in multiplayer games i can't change it :(
14:50:42  <[s]Animat> so they my trains don't work and i feel crap
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14:54:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> [s]Animat: you using YAPF?
14:56:24  <CIA-3> tron * r5225 /trunk/ (5 files):
14:56:24  <CIA-3> Some windows periodically check if their parent exists - if not they close themselves
14:56:24  <CIA-3> This is unnecessary, because their parents already close them when they get closed
14:56:24  <CIA-3> Therefore remove the code for the periodic checks
14:56:48  <[s]Animat> Eddi|zuHause2: What's YAPF?
14:56:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> pathfinder...
14:57:10  <[s]Animat> i'll check
14:57:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have 3 pathfinders of choice... new train pathfinder (NTP), new global path finder (NPF) and yet another pathfinder (YAPF)
14:58:37  <[s]Animat> ok well i have the option 'New global pathfinding' ON/OFF
14:58:43  <[s]Animat> that i can find
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14:58:47  <[s]Animat> and it's off
14:58:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> you use 0.4.7?
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14:59:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, then there's no yapf ;)
14:59:16  <[s]Animat> yeah just installed
14:59:25  <[s]Animat> which should i use
14:59:26  <[s]Animat> ?
14:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> try if your trains still misbehave if you switch NPF on
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15:00:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> (may be a bad idea if you have a low-tech-PC ;))
15:01:33  <anboni> [s]Animat, you could try getting a nightly and running you game with yapf.. less cpu load, same or better than NPF
15:01:38  <[s]Animat> this is lookin good
15:01:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, getting nightlies is probably the best idea ;)
15:02:12  <[s]Animat> i've got a good enough pc i think
15:02:37  <anboni> nightlies have a lot more improvements though, still worth getting :)
15:02:41  <[s]Animat> isn't installing a nightly as risky as having unprotected sex with a prosperous prostitute?
15:03:02  <anboni> not at all.. recent development builds are pretty stable
15:04:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> [s]Animat: no, that would be using code patches from the forum/elsewhere
15:04:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> nightlies are pretty good ;)
15:04:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> and have a hell of a lot of new features
15:04:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> newstations... elrails...
15:04:29  <[s]Animat> oooh ok
15:04:37  <[s]Animat> sounds good
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15:05:03  <glx> the only risk is it can break your savegames
15:05:17  <glx> but it happens rarely
15:06:47  <anboni> as long as you stick with trunk (or within branch) and someone doesnt suddenly decide to remove something from trunk again, yeah savegames are pretty safe :)
15:08:07  <[s]Animat> ok thanks for the help
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15:15:12  <[s]Animat> eugh
15:15:28  <[s]Animat> i STILL have to force them to go non-stop via the waypoints
15:15:38  <anboni> did you turn on yapf?
15:15:46  <anboni> and then get rid of all the waypoints?
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15:17:03  <[s]Animat> not yet, downloading nightly
15:18:12  <anboni> with yapf, you'll probably not need waypoints at all (I never need them, and my networks get pretty complex).. might not need them with npf either
15:18:26  <[s]Animat> but how do they know which way to go?
15:18:32  <[s]Animat> (ie. if you have directional tracks)
15:18:38  <anboni> proper signalling
15:18:53  <[s]Animat> i thought signals only 'change time, not direction'
15:19:15  <anboni> are you only using 2way signals?
15:19:29  <[s]Animat> yes
15:19:56  <anboni> that's bound to go wrong some time :) use one way signals
15:20:12  <[s]Animat> wow!
15:20:24  <[s]Animat> doing that did exactly what i needed
15:20:36  <KUDr> ;)
15:20:37  <[s]Animat> disallowed train from going a certain direction
15:20:38  <[s]Animat> THANKS
15:20:42  <[s]Animat> lol it was so easy
15:20:52  <[s]Animat> thankyou very much
15:21:01  <anboni>
15:21:09  <anboni>
15:21:15  <anboni> some more useful reading on signals :)
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15:21:45  <KUDr> anboni: thanks for giving YAPF support
15:22:02  <[s]Animat> works like a charm
15:22:03  <[s]Animat> thanks
15:22:08  <anboni> just ignore everything you read about path based signalling (PBS), it isn't in the nightlies currently
15:22:14  <anboni> KUDr, anytime :)
15:23:07  <anboni> KUDr, haven't been able to confuse yapf at all lately, even with the new bridges stuff :)
15:23:28  <KUDr> good
15:23:43  <KUDr> but you understand perfectly how it works
15:23:57  <KUDr> and it is bit complex for new users
15:23:58  <anboni> getting there
15:24:14  <KUDr> i don't know how to explain everything to them
15:24:34  <anboni> many things can't be explained.. they need to be experienced :)
15:24:38  <KUDr> but i don't want to remove advanced features
15:24:46  <KUDr> yes
15:25:47  <anboni> i do think yapf could do with some more advanced ways of tweaking path costs, apart from adding level road crossings :)
15:26:11  <KUDr> yeah
15:26:13  <anboni> (but i have no idea what that could be, at least within the confines of current OTTD tech)
15:26:22  <KUDr> priority trains
15:26:33  <KUDr> and better load balancing
15:26:53  <XeryusTC> giving different lanes a higher/lower cost
15:26:57  <KUDr> load balancing could be quite easy with train driven signals
15:27:06  <KUDr> Celestar plans such
15:27:25  <KUDr> XeryusTC: but how?
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15:27:34  <anboni> would there be some way to set a current stretch of track to 'local traffic only'? so if the destination isn't within x tiles of this track, a train cant go there?
15:27:36  <XeryusTC> KUDr: i was wondering that too
15:27:39  <KUDr> can't be lower - only higher
15:28:04  <XeryusTC> maybe add something simular as the speed signs
15:28:48  <anboni> hmm.. come to think of it, that local traffic only would probably be better accomplished by adding one tile with extra high cost (through a sign, perhaps)
15:28:54  <KUDr> anboni: yes, it that destination distance can be measured as air distance
15:29:26  <KUDr> it->if
15:29:46  <anboni> air distance would work, at least in my typical designs
15:30:29  <XeryusTC> that probably won't work in my mainline design
15:30:36  <KUDr> when YAPF if on particular node it knows air distance to destination, but real cost from origin (train)
15:31:17  <anboni> XeryusTC, yeah, when i'm thinking about it some more, i'm afraid it might even break on my current game
15:31:35  <KUDr> so we need some ideas
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15:32:13  <anboni> still think best way might be to have one tile type with extra high cost.. maybe abuse the waypoint placement system? but instead of it acting as a waypoint, it would simply add a (big) value to the cost?
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15:32:30  <XeryusTC> my idea would let mainline designs work better, the game i last finished had a big round mainline and trains would only take the inner line because it was mostly shorter, they only choose the outter line when traffic got really high
15:33:01  <anboni> XeryusTC, yeah, that's kinda what i ran into with my previous game though (that's what triggered my post about the loadbalancing:) )
15:33:12  <KUDr> "(big) value to the cost" could kill performance
15:33:29  <anboni> how so?
15:33:53  <KUDr> it will always try all other ways - far away from destination
15:33:59  <KUDr> like dijkstra
15:34:07  <XeryusTC> anboni: i do my own load balancing that works better with my designs than yapf's build in one
15:34:12  <KUDr> it will be no longer A*
15:34:57  <anboni> KUDr, when does it determine it needs to try some more paths? there needs to be some mechanism for that right now, i'd think
15:35:31  <KUDr> it maintains sorted list of nodes (open list)
15:35:49  <KUDr> and the lowest cost node gets processed first
15:35:55  <anboni> XeryusTC, yeah, right now i'm trying a setup where i 'loadbalance' according to type of cargo.. fruit/maize go over inner tracks to plant dropoff, food go over outer tracks.. stations simply only connect to one
15:36:15  <KUDr> so if you add big penalty to one node, it will get processed much later
15:36:20  <bulio> why is it that I supply food and water to one town, yet it doesn't grow
15:36:28  <bulio> but another town grows naturally
15:36:30  <KUDr> when all other nodes in the open list will get > cost
15:36:58  <anboni> KUDr, what's the difference between a situation with one high cost tile vs a bunch of slightly increased tiles (road crossings)?
15:37:17  <KUDr> it is the same
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15:37:51  <bulio> anyone?
15:38:11  <KUDr> so we can add waypoint support - if name will be like: "cost: <number>"
15:38:13  <anboni> bulio, no idea, sorry.. haven't really figured that stuff out myself either.. :)
15:38:31  <bulio> heh
15:38:53  <XeryusTC> bulio: try to supply passengers, mail, food and water
15:39:40  <anboni> KUDr, that would certainly give some options for experimenting with this stuff
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15:41:51  <Hagbard_Ub> Hmm... Any one got a pic of extreemly effective station?
15:41:57  <Hagbard_Ub> 100+ trains
15:42:07  <XeryusTC> Hagbard_Ub: try
15:42:32  <Vornicus> How many trains at a time?  100+ can be a two-track terminus, if they don't show up often.
15:43:08  <Hagbard_Ub> well... say 20-30 trains at time... or something like that
15:43:26  <Hagbard_Ub> it's 5x20 trains that come quite quicly
15:43:34  <Hagbard_Ub> delivering coal.. :D
15:43:45  <Vornicus> openttdcoop has high-quality load-balancing stations designed
15:43:57  <Hagbard_Ub> Vornicus, Link?
15:43:57  <XeryusTC> Hagbard_Ub: look at one of my roro designs
15:44:15  <Hagbard_Ub> doing
15:44:19  <Vornicus> but I don't recall where to get that
15:44:27  <Hagbard_Ub> XeryusTC, German?
15:44:40  <anboni> Vornicus, you mean ?
15:44:49  <Hagbard_Ub>
15:45:10  <Hagbard_Ub> that's quite effective... but it can't handle many trains cause they get stuck everywhere
15:45:17  <XeryusTC> no, dutch
15:45:36  <Hagbard_Ub> but a round station is great casue if there ar no availible they go to another station
15:45:40  <Hagbard_Ub> XeryusTC, Ok...
15:45:44  <Vornicus> that circle station is madness
15:45:57  <Hagbard_Ub> Vornicus, Why?
15:46:17  <Sionide> wow awesome circle station
15:46:50  <Hagbard_Ub> Sionide, Not me that built it... a friend
15:47:11  <Hagbard_Ub> it really good for small trains.. but after 20+ it's not very good
15:47:21  <anboni> cirkel station has a lot of places where trains will end up waiting for other trains
15:47:22  <Sionide> bit cheaty though, see the central station square - they then must have removed station bits, to get them that far out
15:47:53  <Hagbard_Ub> Sionide, Yes...:D
15:48:04  <anboni> sigh.. i want right-click scroll support in firefox :)
15:48:19  <Vornicus> Consider the situation where a bunch of trains come from the southwest, and then another train comes in from the southeast.
15:48:21  <anboni> Sionide, i do that all the time :)
15:48:42  <Hagbard_Ub> Vornicus, I know... built and it gets stuck..
15:48:50  <Sionide> not cheaty i guess, but kind of hacky...
15:49:06  <Hagbard_Ub> anboni, What will that do?
15:49:25  <anboni> Hagbard_Ub, the same as right-click scroll in ottd :)
15:49:30  <Hagbard_Ub> aha
15:49:34  <Hagbard_Ub> now i get it :P
15:49:41  <anboni> :)
15:49:44  <Hagbard_Ub> hmm..
15:50:28  <Hagbard_Ub> i wanna have a really effective station... have a map where you can have like 150+ coal trains and not run out of coal... and only one Powerstation :P
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15:50:37  <XeryusTC> Hagbard_Ub: i once made a station that was able to be handling such a high load that the lines leading to it couldn't handle the traffic :)
15:50:37  <XeryusTC> i can't connect to the server :(
15:50:37  <XeryusTC> the guy that build the circle station must be a stoner
15:50:47  <Hagbard_Ub> XeryusTC, cool :D
15:50:57  <Hagbard_Ub> What you mean stoner?
15:51:26  <XeryusTC> that he was stoned while building it
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15:51:32  <Hagbard_Ub> hhe
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15:51:39  <Hagbard_Ub> why? i think it's quite good
15:51:40  <XeryusTC> <- can handle _ALOT_ of trains
15:51:49  <XeryusTC> yes, but it is madness
15:52:25  <Hagbard_Ub> hhe
15:52:49  <Hagbard_Ub> hmm..
15:52:52  <anboni> my current game has a few stations designed for high traffic... but traffic isn't high enough yet to really test it :)
15:53:11  <Hagbard_Ub> is there a great site where there are pics of effective stations?
15:53:17  <Hagbard_Ub> anboni, Give me pic
15:54:10  <Hagbard_Ub> XeryusTC, You're using nightly?
15:54:16  <XeryusTC> Hagbard_Ub: yes
15:54:23  <Hagbard_Ub> kk
15:54:30  <XeryusTC> actually, it's a custom build including TGP
15:54:35  <Hagbard_Ub> kk
15:55:05  <Hagbard_Ub> anyone using shuttle stations?
15:55:19  <MagusX> o.O
15:55:22  <XeryusTC> you mean terminus stations?
15:55:37  <Hagbard_Ub> terminus maybe... don't know the name of it... :D
15:55:59  <anboni> XeryusTC,
15:56:24  <MagusX> o.
15:56:26  <MagusX> o.O
15:56:36  <Vornicus> that is some high traffic there.
15:57:02  <Hagbard_Ub> EUR?
15:57:06  <Hagbard_Ub> Why not Pound?
15:57:19  <anboni> because i'm dutch, perhaps?:)
15:57:21  <XeryusTC> let me post a station with _really_ high traffic
15:57:50  <XeryusTC>
15:57:51  <anboni> i'm gonna stresstest that station :)
15:58:40  <XeryusTC> mine?
15:58:44  <MagusX> OMG
15:58:45  <anboni> no, mine:)
15:58:55  <XeryusTC> heh
15:59:00  <XeryusTC> mine is already being stress tested
15:59:03  <MagusX> my stations are 473892743986234% simpler than those
15:59:04  <MagusX> :(
15:59:09  <XeryusTC> all the goods trains go there
15:59:21  <XeryusTC> even 2 lines cant handle the traffic ;)
15:59:38  <MagusX> my stations are 473892743986234% simpler than those :(
15:59:51  <Vornicus> xeryus: madness!
16:00:49  <XeryusTC> there are 2 2-line mainlines comming in to that station, one is full of goods + other trains going to that station and the other one is about half full :)
16:01:00  <XeryusTC> the station handles it with ease though
16:01:01  <CIA-3> tron * r5226 /trunk/ (gui.h main_gui.c network_gui.c):
16:01:01  <CIA-3> Reduce the mess that sending chat messages is
16:01:01  <CIA-3> This also fixes a bug:
16:01:01  <CIA-3> -Fix: It was possible to rename a signs or waypoints with the chat box
16:01:32  <Tron> s/a //
16:04:58  *** MeusH [] has joined #openttd
16:05:22  <MeusH> hey
16:06:07  <MeusH> I wasn't around recently, however I know Celestar merged magic bridge into the trunk. However, seems like it is gone now, or I can't activate it somehow
16:06:48  *** moebius_ [n=moebius@] has quit ["Leaving"]
16:06:52  <anboni> MeusH, it got unmerged again
16:08:01  <MeusH> okay
16:08:07  <MeusH> thanks for info
16:08:38  <glx> MeusH: it's back in its branch
16:09:02  *** Sacro [n=Sacro@adsl-83-100-210-60.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:11:26  <anboni> XeryusTC, it looks like the limitation on that station is going to be the network, not the station :/
16:11:31  <anboni> (my station, that is)
16:11:40  <XeryusTC> my station has that too
16:11:51  <XeryusTC> but it also depends on train length and platform count
16:11:55  <Sacro> afternoon all
16:12:03  <XeryusTC> heya Sacro
16:12:09  <anboni> trainlength is fixed at 6, platform count is.. uhm... 24 :)
16:12:19  <Sacro> grrr, skype being a pain again
16:12:22  <Sacro> hey XeryusTC
16:12:29  <anboni> and my exit construction needs some work
16:12:30  <peter1138> hmm
16:12:51  <Sacro> "Problem with sound device" - theres nothing using it though
16:12:54  <peter1138> you know it's hot when your aircon comes on even with the thermostat at the end...
16:13:03  <anboni> lol
16:14:43  <anboni> hmm.. even the entrance isn't working properly.. the back platforms rarely get used
16:15:28  * Hagbard_Ub is playing Wu Tang Clan - Gravel Pit
16:17:22  <Sacro> :| they tested that skype installs under wine, but not that it could receive or make calls...WHATS THE POINT OTHERWISE
16:17:48  <peter1138> isn't there a linux version of skype?
16:17:58  <Hagbard_Ub> peter1138, There is
16:18:05  <anboni> ok, with 150 extra trains, that station grinds to a complete halt :(
16:19:20  <Sacro> peter1138: yep, but its only V1, theres 2.0 and 2.5beta out for windows
16:19:35  <Sacro> and i can choose which sound deamon wiht wine
16:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> hey... that circle station looks fun :p
16:20:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> however, the station exit needs improvement
16:20:24  <Sacro> circle station
16:20:25  <Sacro> ?
16:20:33  <Eddi|zuHause2>
16:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> was posted before you joined
16:21:00  <Sacro> hmm, should i find it strange that i click on SkypeSetup.exe, it goes through installshield and then starts fine...?
16:21:02  <peter1138> i'd rather use normal sip/h323 voip anyway
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16:21:30  <Sacro> peter1138: dont confuse me :P
16:24:06  * XeryusTC wonders if he should call his company "Town Execution" :P
16:24:27  <anboni> lol
16:24:40  <MeusH> Eddi|zuHause2: you own the factory :)
16:24:41  <MeusH> cool
16:24:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is not mine
16:25:44  <MeusH> whatever
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17:02:13  <Trenskow> im trying to figure out how to create a dropdown box
17:02:24  <Trenskow> any documentation on that?
17:02:46  <Bjarni> sort of
17:02:54  <Bjarni> you got the source code
17:03:15  <Trenskow> Bjarni, hehe yea
17:03:17  <XeryusTC> ottd doesn't know what documentation means
17:03:30  <Bjarni> and the easiest way to code something, that somebody already coded is copy paste ;)
17:04:09  <Trenskow> i can't figure what the {SKIP}{SKIP}.... is about in the ddl title
17:04:19  <Bjarni> you got an easy task: you can just use it. The first dropdown menu I made had to modify the code to handle those menus
17:04:38  <Bjarni> that's not a dropdown menu issue
17:04:52  <Bjarni> you can set up some parameters when drawing strings
17:05:05  <Bjarni> they are numbered and say you got
17:05:15  <Bjarni> speed: {VELOCITY}
17:05:31  <Bjarni> it will add the first parameter in VELOCITY
17:05:48  <Trenskow> ah ok... ill make a go
17:05:58  <Bjarni> if you are already using that parameter for something else in that window, you can use the string Speed: {SKIP}{VELOCITY}
17:06:11  <Bjarni> and then you use the next parameter to tell what the speed is
17:06:18  <Trenskow> ahhhh
17:06:19  <Trenskow> i se
17:06:20  <Trenskow> e
17:07:14  <Bjarni> it's not that hard once you get to know the system
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17:17:42  <Sacro> ack, my laptop is trying to install Eve using wine
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17:43:38  <[Shaman]> [Sacro]: ack, my laptop is trying to install Eve using wine << ack O_O
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17:44:01  <Sacro> [Shaman]: actually i think it was crossover office
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17:48:35  <Trenskow> which widget type should i use for checkboxes?
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17:52:53  <[Shaman]> Sacro:
17:55:06  <Sacro> [Shaman]: thats under cedega though
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18:35:04  <White_Rabbit> are people using ships without buoys again on your server, Brianetta? it's so slow I can barely move my cursor when I joined
18:35:26  <Brianetta> No idea
18:35:28  <Brianetta> You desynced
18:42:05  <Brianetta> New game now, anyway
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18:43:58  <White_Rabbit> huh, no spectating when there are no companies around
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18:49:27  <Brianetta> sure there is
18:49:37  <Brianetta> join the server with -n
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18:53:54  <White_Rabbit> hm, maybe later..I'm playing right now ;p
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19:01:20  <bulio> I can't seem to drive my cities to past 500 inhabitants
19:01:23  <bulio> any ideas why?
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19:23:49  <CIA-3> miham * r5227 /trunk/lang/ (polish.txt spanish.txt unfinished/lithuanian.txt):
19:23:49  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-06-11 21:23:24
19:23:49  <CIA-3> lithuanian - 16 fixed, 3 changed by Plyta (19)
19:23:49  <CIA-3> polish - 4 changed by meush (4)
19:23:49  <CIA-3> spanish - 31 fixed by eusebio (31)
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19:48:59  <bulio> I can't seem to drive my cities to past 500 inhabitants
19:49:04  <bulio> any ideas why?
19:49:39  <Bjarni> if it is desert towns, then they need food and water to grow
19:49:49  <Bjarni> if it is snow towns, then they need food
19:50:05  <valhallasw> I need water
19:50:09  <valhallasw> it's way too hot here
19:50:30  <Bjarni> on top of that, it's good to bring them passengers, mail and goods nomatter where the town is
19:50:40  <Bjarni> *towns are
19:50:49  <peter1138> it's also good to have a million stations in a town
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20:07:54  <bulio> it is?
20:08:28  <bulio> so take a small town with like 100 people (in desert)
20:08:40  <bulio> send them food water, and passengers with 2 staitons in each town?
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21:19:55  <CIA-3> KUDr * r5228 /trunk/ai/default/default.c: Suppress MSVC warnings about signed/unsigned comparison
21:34:58  <peter1138> nini
21:38:42  <CIA-3> glx * r5229 /trunk/saveload.c: Remove a write-only variable
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22:04:34  <RichK67> hi all
22:05:03  <glx> hi RichK67
22:05:08  *** Schamane_ is now known as SchAmane
22:05:19  <RichK67> ah - the very man i wanted to talk with :)
22:05:34  <RichK67> got a small problem with my makefile
22:05:34  <glx> me?
22:05:46  <RichK67> yeah, the infamous, helpful, glx
22:05:50  <RichK67> :)
22:06:05  <glx> just ask, if I can help :)
22:07:06  <[Shaman]> lol this tgp shit is funny as fuck :o
22:07:32  <RichK67> for the last couple of days, ive had a weird little error - "grep: invalid option -- o"   and looking in the makefile, there is a line : REV_MODIFIED := $(shell svnversion . | grep -o M)
22:07:32  <RichK67> is this a new problem, or just MingW not having all new grep options?
22:07:40  <RichK67> pardon, shaman??
22:07:52  <[Shaman]> made a perlin generator to make a random map, then a character to 'move' around it to 'walk' on it ^^
22:08:04  <[Shaman]> so now i got this giant form with a line trying to find it's way around it xD
22:08:47  <glx> RichK67: it's a problem with too old grep
22:09:12  <RichK67> ah... any workaround?? or just put up with an error?
22:09:19  <glx> I had the same
22:09:52  <glx> get the new one form
22:09:57  <RichK67> ty
22:10:07  <RichK67> i knew you would know the answer :)
22:11:26  <glx> you'll need and
22:11:35  <Sacro> hehe, grep-dep
22:11:43  *** Osai^2 [] has joined #openttd
22:12:06  <glx> Sacro: yeah the external dlls needed by grep :)
22:12:16  <Sacro> glx: its an amusing name
22:12:21  <Sacro> hehehehhe, Cockfosters
22:12:37  <Sacro> i so wanna live there
22:12:52  <Sacro> or maybe phucket
22:13:47  <RichK67> in the Vietnam war, one battle went almost unreported;  at Fuk Yu
22:15:28  <Sacro> nice
22:16:58  <RichK67> god, GNU like making it complex... download this, link that, place this there... why not just "download and click setup.exe"
22:17:05  <RichK67> bah!
22:17:39  <Sacro> setup.exe? why not just unzip it into place?
22:18:43  <RichK67> so how do i get MingW32 to use it... it still uses the old one
22:19:42  <Sacro> shove it in c:\mingw\bin
22:19:47  <RichK67> and where do the dep files go, or are they put in place by GNU's exe???
22:19:56  <Sacro> or make sure that its higher up in $PATH
22:20:31  <glx> RichK67: unzip them in mingw root
22:21:35  <RichK67> ah, yes,... like it (doesnt) say in the instructions ;)
22:21:59  <glx> all gnuwin32 packages are like that
22:22:07  <RichK67> no comment
22:22:10  <RichK67> :p
22:22:36  <glx> but I prefer compile them myself when it's possible (not the case for grep though)
22:22:44  <Sacro> hmm
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22:26:24  <Maedhros> hmm, i've got a 4-4-0 steam engine with 92% reliability, with ukrs. it's the year 2000...
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22:27:54  <bulio> where can I find a good tutorial on train building?
22:27:59  <bulio> I'm confused with signals and such
22:28:17  <RichK67> damn this stupid system... still no -o option... i have put it in the PATH, ive put it in the root MinGW directory, ive put it in MinGW\bin... still nothing... still using old :(
22:30:54  <Sacro> RichK67: which grep
22:31:03  <Sacro> as in the command :P
22:31:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> bulio: the wiki has articles about signal building
22:31:48  <RichK67> in MingW cli, i type grep -V ... it says grep GNU 2.4.2 ... but i want it to use 2.5.???
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22:31:56  <glx> RichK67: is msys/1.0/bin before mingw/bin in your path?
22:32:40  <Sacro> RichK67: do "which grep", hunt it down and KILL
22:32:51  <Sacro> or just rm `which grep` if your feeling lucky
22:32:55  <RichK67> here is my PATH:   %SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files\GNUWin32\bin;C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI Control Panel;C:\PROGRA~1\COMMON~1\SONICS~1\;C:\Program Files\Common Files\Sonic Shared;;C:\Program Files\Common Files\Roxio Shared\DLLShared;C:\Program Files\Common Files\Ulead Systems\MPEG
22:33:14  <Sacro> RichK67: thats your windows path
22:33:19  <Sacro> try echo $PATH
22:33:49  <RichK67> great, this is what i mean.... why isnt the documentation CLEAR...
22:34:09  <glx> Sacro: it's the same for me :)
22:34:15  <Sacro> eh?
22:34:37  * Sacro has MinGW under linux
22:34:42  <glx> but I don't use msys.bat
22:34:53  <glx> just sh from cmd.exe when needed
22:36:00  <RichK67> ah - i put it in the MinGW\bin directory... the one its using is in msys.0\bin
22:36:11  <RichK67> .:/usr/local/bin:/mingw/bin:/bin:/mingw/bin:/usr/bin
22:36:11  <RichK67>   is my echo $PATH
22:36:58  <glx> I can't remember where is /usr/local/bin by default in msys
22:37:32  <glx> I set mine to mingw/bin
22:37:56  <RichK67> damn - you need a degree in this to understand it... oh, wait, ive got one... damn
22:38:16  <glx> RichK67: easy way: just delete grep.exe in msys/1.0/bin
22:38:25  <RichK67> ok
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22:39:14  <bulio> where could I download a very flat map?
22:39:16  <RichK67> bingo - grep 2.5.1 ... ty (god, i hate CLIs)
22:39:24  <bulio> just one to practice transporting goods and passengers
22:39:27  <bulio> no hills or anything
22:40:33  *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["'night"]
22:40:35  <Vornicus> CLIs are great when you have complex operations to do on multiple files.
22:41:56  <RichK67> CLIs are indeed great when you know the magic sequence of options, shortnames, etc to get them to do anything... a WIMP is generally intuitive ;)
22:42:52  <bulio> anyone?
22:44:14  <Vornicus> a very flat map?
22:44:44  <Vornicus> TGPerlin makes nice flat maps - very flat/very dry/very smooth makes for great stuff.
22:44:53  <Vornicus> Or... hang on.
22:47:00  <Vornicus> <--- this is a game I made for a reason I no longer remember.
22:47:48  <Vornicus> mh
22:48:01  <Vornicus> spell it right, dangit
22:48:01  <Bjarni> Vornicus: are you still using OSX 10.3.9?
22:48:08  <Vornicus> Yes I am.
22:48:19  <Vornicus> I also have an intel iMac downstairs now.
22:48:25  <Vornicus> what's up?
22:48:55  <Bjarni> can you compile freetype and send it to me. I only got 10.4 here, which makes it a bit tricky to make the lib backward compatible
22:49:23  <Vornicus> certainly.  Give me a few moments.
22:49:27  <Bjarni> I could crosscompile it myself, but it's most likely easier if you just install it with fink and send it to me
22:49:35  <Vornicus> ...fink.
22:49:47  <Vornicus> I can't do fink, I can't get it to work.
22:49:56  <Bjarni> o_O
22:50:01  <Bjarni> it even failed me
22:50:13  <Bjarni> s/even/ever
22:50:20  <Bjarni> minor typo :P
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22:51:01  <Bjarni> just install Xcode, then fink and then it works
22:51:07  <Bjarni> I fail to see the hard part
22:51:27  <Vornicus> It doesn't work.  At all.  I don't know why, the fink folks don't know why.
22:51:31  <Bjarni> that is, unless you already altered your system with a lot of 3rd party libs and stuff, that can cause conflicts
22:52:16  <Vornicus> but now I can't do anything with it, so I have all sorts of stupid problems.
22:52:36  <Vornicus> Like having to hack my libpng install so it actually gets built properly.
22:53:07  <Bjarni> that sucks
22:53:58  <Vornicus> So yeah.  If you want a non-fink build of libfreetype, I can get that for you.  If you need a fink build specifically, you're out of luck.
22:54:18  <Bjarni> I guess the iMac can use fink if you follow the instructions... if not, then you got a building, that interferers with electronics (that's a bad thing)
22:54:34  <Vornicus> well the iMac isn't on 10.3.9, either.
22:54:45  <Bjarni> well, I need the .a file, so if you use fink to make it or not, do not really matter
22:55:03  <Vornicus> freetype 2, or 1?
22:55:14  <Bjarni> hmm
22:55:26  <glx> 2 for utf8 branch
22:55:35  <Bjarni> 2
22:55:45  <Vornicus> ok then.
22:55:52  <[Shaman]> e// it's working xD
22:56:24  <Bjarni> [Shaman]: while you are at your raindance and other weather controlling stuff, can you lower the temperature here?
22:56:27  <Bjarni> it's really hot
22:56:36  <glx> please :)
22:57:04  <Bjarni> well, either make it cooler, or make a woman appear (which would be hot as well)
22:58:39  <Bjarni> I saw in the news today, that they (the TV guys) had gone to the beach to talk to people, who aren't watching football. It turned out that there was something else to watch at the beach
22:58:41  <Bjarni> boobs
22:58:50  <[Shaman]> Bjarni: First over here
22:58:54  <[Shaman]> then over at your place :p
22:59:07  <Bjarni> since all the guys were watching TV, they didn't really cover themselves
23:00:15  <Bjarni> [Shaman]: how can she be a virgin after visiting you first???
23:00:19  <Bjarni> are you gay or something?
23:00:35  <[Shaman]> the weather thing, stoopid :/
23:01:08  *** KritiK [] has quit ["Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier."]
23:02:06  <Bjarni> well, the last lines were about boobs, so it's not stupid to misunderstand you when you "more or less" refer to the last line and says "here first"
23:02:08  <Bjarni> :P
23:02:29  <valhallasw> boobs!
23:02:43  <valhallasw> (no, I've not got an highligt on 'boobs' :p)
23:02:59  * Vornicus waits for it to make, hopes the default options make it work okay.
23:03:10  <valhallasw> make love \o/
23:03:15  * valhallasw runs
23:03:25  <[Shaman]> you highlighted me on the weather thing :p
23:03:45  <Bjarni> that was ages ago
23:04:09  <[Shaman]> It was a 2.5 minute response time
23:04:11  <Bjarni> everything before anybody mentions boobs in an IRC channel are defined as ages ago
23:04:14  <[Shaman]> that's 10 times better than the cops.
23:05:28  <Bjarni>
23:05:32  <Bjarni> I rest my case
23:05:40  <valhallasw> boobs.
23:05:43  <Sacro> boobs?
23:05:48  <Bjarni> then again, I think this guy is far out
23:05:56  <Bjarni> see, Sacro came to live
23:05:59  <valhallasw> :D
23:06:15  <Sacro> Bjarni: life
23:06:22  <Bjarni> Sacro: they showed boobs in the news today. They visited the beach and made women talk about them :D
23:06:36  <Bjarni> Sacro: yeah, that too
23:06:36  <valhallasw> Bjarni: world nudist day?
23:06:41  <Bjarni> no
23:06:47  <Sacro> Bjarni: nice, i went to the outside world and saw some myself
23:06:58  <Sacro> valhallasw: that was the 4th
23:07:06  <Bjarni> they didn't cover themselves when the men were somewhere else watching football on TV
23:07:09  <Bjarni> I already said that
23:07:32  <Bjarni> <Sacro>	Bjarni: nice, i went to the outside world and saw some myself <-- you saw boobs outside???
23:08:02  <[Shaman]> Bjarni:
23:08:18  <Sacro> Bjarni: well, they where covered, not brilliantly though
23:09:25  <Bjarni> fits the viewer
23:09:29  <[Shaman]> * Sacro is now known as Reverend
23:09:30  <[Shaman]>
23:09:42  <Sacro> err :S
23:10:09  <[Shaman]> :P
23:10:31  <Bjarni> <[Shaman]>	Bjarni: <-- that one sounds like some people, who enters here
23:10:50  <Bjarni> I mean, they don't even know of either copy paste or clicking on links
23:11:07  <Bjarni> one guy replied to a pasted link "damn, that's a whole lot to type"
23:12:00  <[Shaman]> since we were talking about boobies:
23:12:13  <valhallasw> boobies!
23:12:26  <valhallasw> (maybe I *should* put an highlight on 'boob' :P)
23:12:49  <Bjarni> <Tier> damn, I learned something new again: think, if 69 is a sexual position, and it describes man and a woman in a lewd act, then with that train of thought 666 is somekind of daisy chain... satan is gay :o
23:12:50  <Bjarni> haha
23:13:00  * Sacro likes highlighting boobies
23:15:05  <Bjarni> I saw a picture from an US dorm on the internet once. There was a door with a sign, that said "if you are a woman, put your arms out to the sides and walk up to the door. If your arms touch the wall before your boobs touch the door, then go away"
23:15:08  <Bjarni> or something like that
23:15:20  <Sacro> hehe
23:16:18  <Bjarni> <computeknik> you know you have a crappy internet connection when you bitch about someone stealing your bandwidth and realize " oh yea i have a webpage open"
23:16:24  <Bjarni> I tried something like that today
23:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> hey... that happens to me all the time! ;)
23:17:19  <Bjarni> I needed to max out my CPU and then it ran slower than usual, and then I realised that I had opened a webpage with a whole lot of fancy stuff on it, and it used a whole lot of CPU time, even when hidden in the background
23:17:44  <Vornicus> Ok, Bjarni: I have a, is that what you want?
23:17:59  <Sacro> "Why is Brianettas nightly lagging?"..."Oh yeah, azureus is running at 250/30 and i have nothing left..."
23:18:30  <Bjarni> Vornicus: actually it was libfreetype.a, that I'm looking for
23:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> 250/30? i could only dream of that...
23:18:57  <Bjarni> 250/30?
23:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i don't use azureus anyway ;)
23:19:13  <RichK67> wow - i just got an inlet on TGP that runs 3/4 the width of a 512x512 map :)   looks cool :)
23:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> what is an inlet?
23:19:55  <RichK67> like a big long bay/estuary
23:19:59  <Vornicus> ...there's nothing by that name.
23:20:07  <Bjarni> Vornicus: maybe you need to set a static flag or something to get the .a file
23:20:17  <Vornicus> posibly
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23:23:54  *** Spoco [] has quit []
23:24:41  <Bjarni> <-- that one is for Born_Acorn
23:25:40  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: i got 2.5Mb up and 376kb down
23:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... don't you mean the other way round?
23:26:51  <Bjarni> no
23:27:16  <Bjarni> Sacro haven't noticed that his ISP turned the bandwidth the wrong way on his ADSL
23:27:18  <Bjarni> :P
23:27:36  <Sacro> Bjarni: errrm....hmmm
23:28:05  <Sacro> yeah, the other way around makes more sense
23:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> but like i said... i can only dream of those speeds ;)
23:28:56  <CIA-3> richk * r5230 /branch/MiniIN/ (lang/english.txt misc_gui.c tgp.c tgp_gui.c):
23:28:56  <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [TGP]: Assorted bugfixes, and update to Generate Terrain gui to include No.Towns, and No.Industries selectors.
23:28:56  <CIA-3> Bugs fixed:
23:28:56  <CIA-3> 1) maps desyncing in multiplayer; was the poor method I used to set the VOID tiles at the map edge.
23:28:56  <CIA-3> 2) Perlin value was sometimes >=256 after all modifications. This then was assigned to the map height (ht/16). Value now clamped to 255.
23:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't understand 2)
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23:30:43  <RichK67> map height allowed is only 0..15.   i was trying to assign 256/16  or greater, which is 16+
23:30:49  <RichK67> assertsville
23:31:56  <Sacro> lol
23:32:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> didn't you say that you scaled the map height in the end? to get proper mountain tops?
23:33:32  <RichK67> yes, but only for hilly & mountainous... forgot others could (in theory - and occasionally in practice) get that high
23:34:36  <RichK67> i suspect it was a height of 256 sneaking through... but 255/16=15, 256/16=16 (bang!)
23:34:52  <Sacro> hehe
23:34:57  <Sacro> well at least your assert worked
23:35:35  <RichK67> not really mine - tile.h
23:35:43  <Sacro> you may have crashed your car, but at least you know your airbags worked!
23:35:58  <RichK67> ook... sorry about the newlines!
23:36:50  <RichK67> the observant will note that TGP is new_map ready... if we have up to 256 heights in newmap, TGP just stops scaling the final assignment ;)
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23:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause> argh... i must at some time remember to get up at 7 and disconnect manually :p
23:39:37  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: you under linux? or windows?
23:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause> windows
23:39:58  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: ah shame, was gonna say use at
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23:42:55  <Eddi|zuHause> windows does have an at command...
23:43:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but i don't see how that helps me disconnecting the net
23:44:57  <RichK67> well, if it were linux, then at 7am, a penguin leaps out the CD tray, and pulls the cable out ;)
23:45:44  <Sacro> RichK67: umount /dev/ppp :P
23:46:53  <[Shaman]> Eddi|zuHause: shutdown -r ?
23:47:22  <Eddi|zuHause> [Shaman]: yeah :p
23:48:21  <Sacro> [Shaman]: reboot :)
23:48:26  <RichK67> kill -9; shutdown -all ... nighty night :)
23:48:49  <[Shaman]> Hm, with 150 ants on a 256*192 field it'd take them aroud 92 days (given they have set chances to turn/move) to 'travel' about 70% of the field
23:49:07  <[Shaman]> <3 ants
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23:51:25  <Sacro> ants?
23:51:28  <[Shaman]> yar
23:51:35  <Sacro> im confused
23:51:37  <[Shaman]> new pet project i'm fiddling with
23:51:51  <[Shaman]> making ants scurry around a perlin-noise generated terrain
23:52:27  <[Shaman]> so i can use the idea for an ircbot i'm making for a friend
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23:56:14  <CIA-3> richk * r5231 /branch/MiniIN/ (11 files in 2 dirs):
23:56:14  <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [GRF Cargo Subtype]: Main code is now in trunk, using slightly different variable names. This patch fixes the inconsistencies with the MiniIN.
23:56:14  <CIA-3> MiniIN patch supplied by mart3p. Many thanks.
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23:59:28  * [Shaman] zzz

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