Log for #openttd on 27th June 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:05:05  <RichK67> watch your whitespace ;)
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00:05:39  <CIA-3> richk * r5387 /branches/MiniIN/ (station_cmd.c vehicle.c):
00:05:39  <CIA-3> [MiniIN]: [AdditionalOrders]: Fix. Trains from old savegames now set Full Load 100% correctly. Station max_wait_time initially set to 0.
00:05:39  <CIA-3> Corrections from gigajum. Many thanks.
00:07:08  <gigajum> nice, i get an error while starting the game
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00:07:37  <gigajum> gfxinit.c line 377
00:08:01  <gigajum> load_index == SPR_TEMPSNOW_BASE
00:09:19  <Frostregen> guess you need the grf without the 2 deleted airports?
00:09:34  <gigajum> ok
00:10:15  <gigajum> now :)
00:13:49  <RichK67> the airports are hard coded; the .grf just provides the sprites - and still includes the district airports
00:18:33  <Frostregen> maybe just an outdated airport grf
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00:19:13  <gigajum> it's working :)
00:19:17  *** Ihmemies [] has quit ["Signed off"]
00:19:43  <gigajum> i'm thinking about the day length patch
00:19:52  <gigajum> why it is sometimes / and sometimes *
00:19:55  <RichK67> im thinking about bed ;)
00:20:05  <gigajum> lol
00:20:31  <gigajum> not only you
00:20:53  <RichK67> 15 commits.... that will do for one night
00:21:26  <gigajum> nice :)
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00:23:39  <RichK67> five full patches, 6 if you include newairports getting ripped out and reinserted
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00:26:11  <gigajum> then you can go to bed :)
00:26:29  <RichK67> ty... gn
00:26:41  <gigajum> n8 RichK67
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00:26:59  <gigajum> Frostregen there?
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00:32:43  <gigajum> n8 all
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01:14:09  <pv2b> is there documentation (other than the source code of course :-) for how the openttd scenario savegame format is built?
01:14:37  <pv2b> (i'm trying to build a computer program to convert geographic altitude data into an openttd scenario :-)
01:15:18  <glx> there's no real doc about savegame format
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01:15:39  <pv2b> grrrrrreat! RTFS it is!
01:15:43  <pv2b> :-)
01:15:55  <glx> but what you want to do looks like loadpng patch
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01:16:06  <pv2b> omg
01:16:07  <pv2b> loadpng?
01:16:23  <pv2b> urlage
01:16:34  <glx> it's on the forum
01:16:53  <pv2b> on
01:17:02  <glx> yes
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01:18:43  <pv2b> i only find this, is thsi the thread you meant?
01:20:34  <glx> <-- it's a really old patch though
01:22:34  <glx> <-- the latest version is here
01:26:15  <pv2b> omg
01:26:17  <pv2b> you are the own
01:26:21  <pv2b> thank you!!! :D
01:26:47  <pv2b> you just saved me a few hours of coding :-) now i just have to scratch my head to get past the inevitable bit rot
01:28:23  <pv2b> (that or just use svn to get an older revision to apply that patch to :-)
01:29:02  <glx> common solution is to get the rev of the patch then update
01:29:30  <pv2b> sounds sensible
01:29:55  <glx> it's easier to fix conflicts that way
01:31:12  <pv2b> if you at all desire to bother with conflicts. you can just use the older revision anyway ;-)
01:31:20  <pv2b> and then continue working in the newer revision
01:31:43  <glx> yes scenario made in old version must load in newer
01:32:11  <pv2b> well, yeah, but the contour generation is really the only part I want to do.
01:32:17  <pv2b> the rest will be done in 0.4.7
01:33:21  <glx> oh you just want to do the landscaping
01:33:29  <pv2b> to begin with, yes
01:33:51  <pv2b> then i'll do the rest of the stuff
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02:31:14  <pv2b> which direction is north by convention?
02:31:19  <pv2b> toward upper right or toward upper left?
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03:00:23  <imav> can anyone point me to where I can find a binary of the linux i386 binary dedicated server that will work with ottd 0.4.7? I can only find the nightly and the archive of nightlies
03:13:03  <Vornicus> ...this is what I get for ignoring the forum for a week.
03:13:09  <Vornicus> A page and a half of new posts.
03:13:18  <imav> I unfortunately haven't the means to compile it myself
03:13:42  <Vornicus> I can't help you there, imav.
03:13:48  <imav> bummer
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04:25:20  <Vornicus> FINALLY
04:25:28  <Vornicus> I am done reading the General OpenTTD forum.
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08:20:06  <MeusH> hey
08:23:50  <ln-> do you need to say "hey" every time you enter the channel?
08:23:58  <peter1138> HEY!
08:24:17  <peter1138> been trying to meet you
08:24:21  <peter1138> hey
08:24:26  <peter1138> must be a devil between us
08:25:17  <peter1138> or whores in my head, whores at my door, whores in my bed
08:25:22  <peter1138> but hey
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08:25:31  <valhallasw> zomg its Mucht|work
08:25:41  <peter1138> where, have you, been if you go i will surely die
08:25:43  <valhallasw> Mucht|work: have you seen brianetta's evilness?
08:25:59  <Mucht|work> valhallasw: what happened?
08:26:11  <valhallasw> he set us up the bomb*
08:26:16  <Mucht|work> omg
08:26:20  <valhallasw> *) random passwords at the sandbox server
08:26:35  <Mucht|work> omfg
08:26:38  <valhallasw> with a webpage to check on them :o
08:26:44  <Mucht|work> at the wiki?
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08:26:52  <valhallasw> which can only be uses through the wiki
08:27:06  <valhallasw> luckily, we've got hax ;)
08:27:13  <peter1138> heh
08:29:35  <MeusH> ln- you're so evil
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08:31:22  <MeusH> hey TinoM
08:31:32  <MeusH> ln-: next time I'll say hi
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08:54:57  <TinoM> hi MeusH
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09:18:37  <peter1138> Richk67_wrk: fancy integrating my canals patch?
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09:23:56  <Trenskow^> Richk67_wrk, hello... my internet wen't down yesterday, so I didn't hear how i should give you the MiniIN patch for the network filter
09:30:15  <peter1138> wen't ?
09:31:13  <TheMask96> :)
09:31:20  <TheMask96> pete'r :)
09:43:22  <TL|Away> peter1138: we aren't all that amazingly good in the english language as you are :p
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09:46:32  <peter1138> yeah, but... "wen't" ?
09:46:39  <TL|Away> okay okay, I agree
09:46:41  <TL|Away> but still :)
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09:53:06  <peter1138> Richk67_wrk: what's with the backports? surely that'll happen as part of syncing with trunk?
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10:15:31  <ln->
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11:18:24  <Brianetta> How's everybody?
11:19:16  <ThePizzaKing> well
11:19:58  <Brianetta> sweet
11:20:06  <Brianetta> I'm tunnelling socks over ssh
11:20:19  <Brianetta> and I'm IRCing with a locally installed IRC client for the first time
11:20:23  <valhallasw> how?
11:20:23  <Brianetta> (from work)
11:20:39  <valhallasw> sis socks tcp-based?
11:20:57  <SpComb> can't you just ssh to your irssi from work?
11:21:18  <Brianetta> SpComb: I could, if I thought irssi was worth the space on the hard disk
11:21:39  <Brianetta> Normally I'd either ssh and use ircII
11:21:40  <SpComb> irssi is worth it's weight in platinum :o
11:21:47  <Brianetta> or I'd tunnel my X connection over ssh
11:21:53  *** MeusH[away] is now known as MeusH
11:22:11  <Brianetta> Today I'm running locally, and tunnelling my client ocnnections, via SOCKS, over ssh.
11:22:32  <Brianetta> The cut'n'paste is faster, and I can click URLs to start a local browser
11:22:54  * Brianetta pats the sandbix
11:24:56  <Sacro> valhallasw: what is 007F?
11:26:05  * Sacro needs more fonts i think
11:26:53  <Brianetta>  isn't in Helvetica
11:28:09  <Sacro> im using ClearlyU PUA 9
11:28:37  <Sacro> hmm, dont see it in bitstream vera sans
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11:31:34  <Brianetta> Shutting down socks...
11:31:48  <Brianetta>  jio
11:31:49  <Brianetta>  jio
11:31:52  <Brianetta> die
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11:33:24  <Brianetta> That's better
11:33:28  <Brianetta> Back to X over ssh
11:33:38  <Brianetta> socks sucked - many of my IRC servers wouldn't connect through it
11:34:10  <Sacro> hmm
11:35:19  <vondel> 1
11:35:23  <vondel> oops
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11:41:29  <Jango> bonjour
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11:43:24  <Sacro> Jango: holas
11:44:00  <Jango> si si
11:45:43  <Jango> miniIN seems to be making progress
11:45:51  <Jango> do lots of people use it nowadays?
11:46:02  <hylje> do ships have any slowdown at locks
11:46:54  <peter1138> no slower than they normally are
11:47:16  <hylje> nice
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11:50:26  <hylje> so its practically more efficient to use locks to lift the canal above a railway instead of the other way
11:50:57  <vondel> looks nicer too ;)
11:51:36  <hylje> yes
11:53:41  <Jango> well, tbh, ships go so slowly that the difference in raising would result in a negligable difference in profit, compared to trains
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12:39:52  <Brianetta> Ships suck, but not as hard as canals
12:40:10  <peter1138> canals just need to be about 1/8th the cost they are now
12:40:18  <peter1138> that's the only issue
12:40:22  <Brianetta> They suck so hard that Dyson are looking at their patents for infringement
12:40:34  <peter1138> mmmhmmm
12:40:36  <Jango> ho
12:40:39  <Brianetta> You can build, and some other sod can remove them to allow for his tracks
12:40:51  <peter1138> Brianetta: bzzt, i fixed that
12:40:54  <peter1138> a while ago
12:41:01  <Brianetta> They're owned?
12:41:05  <Brianetta> Private property?
12:41:06  <peter1138> yus
12:41:07  <peter1138> yus
12:41:20  <Brianetta> Are they shared?
12:41:22  <peter1138> in r5084
12:41:37  <peter1138> anyone can use them, but whoever built them gets rights on the tile
12:41:46  <Brianetta> That's not so bad
12:42:00  <Brianetta> I hate it when people remove my swimming pool tile from my HQ
12:42:04  <hylje> yay, crashed three trains because i commanded teh wrong one to ignore signals :b
12:42:07  <peter1138> well, they can't now :-)
12:42:16  <peter1138> also
12:42:17  <Brianetta> hylje: Three?!
12:42:22  <hylje> yes
12:42:25  <peter1138>
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12:42:38  <hylje> first two, then third because it went a route i didnt expect
12:42:46  <peter1138> d'oh
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12:44:05  <Brianetta> Hmmmzes
12:44:22  <peter1138> now i *don't* think you wanted to do that
12:44:23  <Brianetta> Opening any window or dialogue - including a context menu - makes my IRC client lose its connection to the X server.
12:44:29  <Brianetta> I must look into that.
12:44:57  <hylje> on canals, are viaducts possible
12:45:11  <peter1138> viaducts over them, yes
12:45:15  <peter1138> not aqueducts though
12:45:55  <Brianetta> I want to see bridges that can carry more than one mode of transport, either side by side or on decks
12:46:15  <Brianetta> Then it'd be worth sticking a sign by a bridge to name it (:
12:46:41  <Brianetta> Goes without saying that comes after the joined-up bridge support.
12:47:13  <hylje> or just bridges which are effectively platforms
12:47:29  * Brianetta nods
12:47:47  <peter1138> so yeah, sea-level canals could be built with my patch
12:47:56  <peter1138> currently anyone can remove them...
12:48:29  <peter1138> (because it's just plain water/land)
12:53:10  <MiHaMiX> hmm
12:53:16  <MiHaMiX> afternoon
12:53:16  <CIA-3> miham * r5388 /trunk/lang/ (french.txt hungarian.txt polish.txt unfinished/afrikaans.txt):
12:53:16  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-06-27 14:52:55
12:53:16  <CIA-3> afrikaans - 13 fixed, 1 changed by TrueTenacity (14)
12:53:16  <CIA-3> french - 13 fixed by belugas (13)
12:53:16  <CIA-3> hungarian - 1 fixed by miham (1)
12:53:17  <CIA-3> polish - 1 fixed by meush (1)
12:53:59  <MiHaMiX> Total I18N status: 94% - 4087 bad strings out of 73528 strings
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13:20:03  <trogdorx>
13:20:03  <trogdorx>
13:20:05  <trogdorx> hmm
13:20:08  <trogdorx> im not banned yet
13:20:10  <trogdorx> kickass
13:20:15  <hylje> :>
13:20:24  <trogdorx> Ok, openttd server for linux
13:20:34  <trogdorx> Fedora core, are there any rpm packages available?
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13:21:17  <MeusH> IIRC no, either download binaries or download source and compile it yourself
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13:49:14  <Ihmemies> why z1 is not refittable to rubber?
13:49:17  <Ihmemies> but everything else? :D
13:49:20  <Ihmemies> we demand JUSTICE
13:50:11  <imav> an extension to trogdorx 's question, doe that go for pretty much all linux distros? (gotta compile it yourself?)
13:53:51  <Brianetta> Cheesecake, tiramisu
13:53:57  <Brianetta> this is teh office in which to work.
13:54:00  * Brianetta sips tea
13:54:07  * Brianetta IRCs
13:58:14  <Sacro> Brianetta: skiving?
13:58:23  <Sacro> imav: what was trogdorx's question?
13:58:35  <Brianetta> Sacro: Skiving?  No!  Working!
13:58:38  <imav> he was looking for linux dedicated server binaries
13:58:46  <imav> er
13:58:51  <hylje> gentoo got dedicated available
13:58:57  <imav> Well that cuts directly to my question
13:59:01  <Sacro> imav: but which distro? i can probably compile a few
13:59:09  <Sacro> Brianetta: never :P
13:59:10  <imav> redhat i386
13:59:26  <Sacro> imav: hmm, i have centos somewhere near
14:00:52  <Sacro> so many UTF-8 chars, i wonder if theres any benefit from being able to display them all
14:01:28  <Sacro> not that i know how to input them
14:01:31  <imav> hehe
14:01:58  <imav> drop me a PM, if you could-- I have to go write an exam right now
14:02:21  <Sacro> imav: ill be here all night
14:02:30  <imav> it's night?
14:03:01  <imav> I'll be back in probably 8-10 hours
14:03:33  <imav> gotta run, thanks
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14:04:04  <Brianetta> <-- all the Gentoo info you could want
14:04:19  <Brianetta> I am a recent convert *from* Gentoo
14:04:30  <Sacro> Brianetta: what are you running now?
14:04:55  <Brianetta> Sacro: Desktops are FC5 (and occasionally Suse).  Servers are all Trustix Secure.
14:05:19  <Brianetta> Except my home server - that's FC5 because Trustix couldn't install a boot loader and I couldn't be bothered to fix it.
14:05:36  <Sacro> ahh, im just comparing CentOS 4.3 and FC5/6, im wondering whether i should learn one
14:06:27  *** Trenskow [n=outlet@] has joined #openttd
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14:07:13  <Brianetta> CentOS is just Redhat Pro, but recompiled by amateurs with all Redhat logos removed.
14:07:46  <Brianetta> Fedora is a better bet - you get the updates faster.  With CentOS, Redhat have to release the updates, then CentOS people have to spot that, and then release their recompiled version.
14:08:56  *** Trenskow [n=outlet@] has quit [Client Quit]
14:12:02  <Sacro> ?
14:12:04  <Sacro> hmm
14:13:19  <Sacro> nobody around?
14:13:32  *** baske [n=baske@] has joined #openttd
14:13:34  <MeusH> I am
14:13:36  <hylje> no
14:13:38  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
14:13:41  <MeusH> I see that funny keyboard
14:13:46  <MeusH> ??????????
14:13:48  <Sacro> MeusH: yay :)
14:14:25  <Sacro> Brianetta: yeah, think i might install fedora, i just noticed that CentOS had a live cd and live cd creator
14:15:13  <Sacro> wow, so many ace things in UTF-8
14:15:27  <Sacro> ?
14:15:34  <peter1138> utf8 branch! :D
14:15:37  <Brianetta> By ace, I take it you mean foreign?
14:15:41  <Brianetta> 2614
14:15:43  <Brianetta> interesting
14:15:44  <Sacro> Brianetta: ?
14:15:56  <Sacro> well, im past the foreign, onto wingdings
14:16:01  <Brianetta> (:þ
14:16:07  <Brianetta> Thorn makes a good hat
14:16:10  <Sacro> ?
14:16:15  <Sacro> pmsl
14:16:34  <Sacro> how do you enter UTF-8 chars? im guessing theres a better way than copy/paste
14:17:15  <Sacro> ? i can be recycled
14:18:34  <hylje> hold alt down and enter numbers on numpad
14:18:42  <Sacro> could play an amusing game, who can find the UTF-8 char fastest
14:18:55  <Sacro> hylje: and if you dont havea  numpad?
14:19:07  <hylje> then you're out of luck
14:19:21  <peter1138> press altgr and press keys
14:19:33  <peter1138> if using gnome, press shift+ctrl and enter numbers (iirc)
14:19:41  <Sacro> and my keyboard only goes from 0-9
14:19:49  <Sacro> ?
14:19:50  <Sacro> :D
14:19:59  <Sacro> peter1138: wins a biscuit
14:20:08  <Sacro> ²³eæð?ðß???ðj?<-j?<-->->->->->->->??->ø?<-?
14:20:34  <Sacro> (o:þ
14:21:09  <Sacro> ø->->?<-??¶e?@æßð???j??»¢""nµ·}][{ŸœEUR³²¹
14:21:20  <peter1138> do you mind?
14:21:31  <peter1138> you're disrupting everyone else ;)
14:21:39  <Sacro> peter1138: fine :(
14:21:59  <peter1138> only joking ;p
14:22:00  <hylje> :b
14:22:06  <peter1138> now try that in the utf8 branch of ottd ;p
14:22:30  <Sacro> ooh, that i could
14:22:41  <Sacro> ive found braille chars, could do a port for the blind
14:22:46  <peter1138> lol
14:27:45  <Sacro> ???"*("?*"????????
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14:31:02  <Brianetta> Well, Helvetica has most of what S@¢®° just typed in
14:31:09  <Nubian> Sacro, cjk implemented
14:31:56  <pv2b> you talking about utf-8 support in openttd? :-)
14:32:04  <Sacro> Nubian: eh?
14:32:18  <Sacro> pv2b: no, im just pressing buttons and seeing what i can get
14:32:23  <Brianetta> Just none of this:  [16:28] <Sacro> ???"*[16:28] <Sacro> ???"*("?*"????????("?*"???????
14:32:34  *** MeusH [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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14:32:43  <Nubian> Sacro, ????    ????
14:32:53  <MeusH> hey dudes
14:32:53  <Sacro> Nubian: errm...very pretty
14:32:57  <MeusH> you're crashing me
14:33:02  <MeusH> with these non-1337 images
14:33:08  <hylje> :p
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14:33:19  * Brianetta eats more cake
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14:34:12  <Sacro> startkeylogger
14:34:14  <Brianetta> Damnit, cheesecake on the spectacles
14:34:22  <Sacro> hehehe, serves you right
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14:35:43  <Sacro> i have £50 in my paypal account, can anyone recommend any sites (except ebay) that i can spend it on?
14:36:07  <MeusH> sex
14:36:09  <MeusH> porn
14:36:09  <hylje> donate to random projects
14:36:10  <MeusH> gay
14:36:12  <pv2b> send it to me and i'll point at you and laugh :-)
14:36:20  *** Trenskow [] has joined #openttd
14:36:25  <pv2b> seriously, you can use paypal to transfer money to your bank account
14:36:27  <Sacro> hmm, sex and porn did come into mind
14:36:29  *** jonty-comp [] has joined #openttd
14:36:45  <Sacro> ooh, 1 £50 note
14:37:31  <Sacro> could get myself some vintage computing stuff
14:37:54  <MeusH> join Owen at his jurney
14:38:12  <Sacro> :| someone selling pearpc for £2.50
14:38:45  <Sacro> i cant leave the country, i have no passport
14:39:36  <MeusH> do you think orudge has?
14:39:44  <MeusH> he's a SROTU, he doesn't need to have one
14:39:44  <Sacro> he must have
14:39:48  <MeusH> he will let you pass
14:39:48  <Sacro> SROTU?
14:40:01  <MeusH> SROTU aka orudge
14:40:09  <MeusH> Superme Ruler of the Universe
14:40:14  <Sacro> ahh
14:40:23  <MeusH> you know, just like The Stig or Chuck Norris
14:40:28  <MeusH> he's the third one
14:41:01  <Sacro> ahhh
14:41:07  <Sacro> what about the FSM?
14:41:47  <MeusH> Flying Spaghetti Monster?
14:41:48  <MeusH> lol
14:42:14  <Sacro> yep
14:43:49  <MeusH> I'm loling when reading about FSM :D
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14:44:49  <Sacro> hehe, he is amusing
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14:58:51  <hylje> any chances for a order "DONT FUCKING GO TO DEPOT WHEN YOU GO THERE"
14:59:06  <Sacro> hylje: id like that
14:59:17  <Sacro> disable servicing when breakdowns set to none?
14:59:40  <hylje> i have breakdowns
15:00:07  <hylje> and i get annoyed when a train goes to a depot in the wrong moment and goes to a place where it gets lost and stalls any traffic
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15:01:00  <hylje> because the fucking train cant figure how to get back if it cant do a straightforward route
15:01:22  <hylje> ie. it goes to a depot on one-way rail, the rail leads to a non-roro station
15:01:46  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
15:01:47  <hylje> the entrance is designed so trains cant really get straight back where they came from unless they visit the station
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15:02:05  <Sacro> hylje: yeah, ive had that a lot
15:02:25  <gigajum> hi
15:05:01  <vondel> design your tracks better
15:05:26  <vondel> you observe the behaviour, so use that knowledge to produce something working
15:05:50  <hylje> sometimes a perfect station layout is not feasible
15:06:23  <hylje> so (temporary?) workarounds around known problems should be possible
15:08:26  <vondel> don't make depot near a station
15:08:45  <vondel> and make sure that from an depot-exit, a train can reach every direction
15:09:16  <hylje> its not really possible
15:10:05  <hylje> i usually put depots before the trains enter the station, because i want them to service before unloading
15:10:31  <hylje> if the depot is after, the trains go to depot first and dont unload it, i dont generally have space for u-turns
15:11:18  <hylje> and when there comes 2-3 lines to/from the station, the depot has to be where the lines merge
15:11:49  *** b4sk3 [n=baske@] has joined #openttd
15:11:52  <hylje> there is no space to make a fluid way to each direction without going through the station
15:17:56  <vondel> a flyover on your track so the trains can reverse direction when they're heading the wrong direction?
15:18:31  <vondel> i'll use those occosionaly on my main routes, because somehow a few trains always get in the wrong direction
15:19:23  <hylje> because of depot trips on the wrong place
15:20:11  <Sacro> Super VGA, 1-bit color monitor or better supporting 800 x 600 resolution
15:20:16  <Sacro> is 1 bit colour possible?
15:21:03  <pv2b> depends on whether you count a monochrome monitour as a special case of "colour" ;-)
15:21:05  <[Shaman]> monochrome
15:21:16  <hylje> black = 1 white = 0
15:21:28  <Sacro> hmm, thought so
15:21:30  <[Shaman]> black = 0, <color> = 1 probably
15:21:34  <Sacro> but its hardly colour
15:21:38  <[Shaman]> where <color> is the other color the monitor works with
15:21:39  <pv2b> well
15:21:43  <[Shaman]> green/orange usually.
15:21:43  <pv2b> it could be green :-)
15:21:44  *** Zr40 [] has joined #openttd
15:21:44  <pv2b> or amber
15:22:31  <Sacro> ooh, the old black/green monitors
15:23:44  <Sacro> right, i have £50 in a paypal account, where can i spend it, i cant find anything to get on ebay
15:23:59  <pv2b> Sacro: you can send it to your own real bank account?
15:24:36  <Sacro> pv2b: i know, but i still cant shop online using that, it'd mean leaving the house
15:24:56  <pv2b> you don't have a credit or debit card?
15:25:18  <Sacro> nope
15:25:43  <vondel> if there's nothing to buy, why try spending it?
15:26:09  <Sacro> vondel: thats true, i just fancy something to keep me occupied
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15:30:05  <vondel> buy a book on amazon, or the like
15:31:46  <Sacro> ooh yeah amazon
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16:00:50  <Richk67_wrk> peter1138: ping
16:01:36  *** mikl [n=mikl@pdpc/supporter/active/mikl] has joined #openttd
16:01:39  <peter1138> pong
16:01:47  <lws1984> ping
16:02:12  <Richk67_wrk> hi - sorry ive been busy in the office all day - missed your earlier question about canals etc
16:02:17  <peter1138> oh
16:02:25  <peter1138> well, i updated it anyway
16:02:31  <peter1138> might just apply it to trunk, heh
16:03:16  <Richk67_wrk> the backports - i ripped out the old new airports, but knew i wouldnt have time to do a full sync and fix of new airports, so i decided to get my airports working back in MiniIN before bed
16:03:29  <peter1138> hmm
16:03:30  <Richk67_wrk> ill probably sync tonight or tomorrow
16:03:40  <peter1138> seems to me it'll make life harder when syncing, that's all
16:03:59  <Richk67_wrk> nah.... i just do 2 or 3 small syncs, rather than one massive one
16:04:21  *** Rens2Sea [n=Rens2Sea@] has joined #openTTD
16:07:35  <Richk67_wrk> peter - do you have a diff for canals?  what does it change, anyway?
16:08:28  <gigajum> Richk67_wrk
16:09:33  <peter1138>
16:09:46  <peter1138> the updated version ;p
16:09:56  <peter1138> it allows:
16:10:02  <peter1138> sea-level canals, heh
16:11:03  <Richk67_wrk> ooohkay... im sure it will be useful to someone
16:11:18  <peter1138> probably
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17:05:15  <Wolf01> hi all
17:06:42  *** Trenskow [n=outlet@] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
17:06:52  <Sacro> hey Wolf01
17:07:11  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:07:24  <Wolf01> hey Sacro
17:07:28  *** argonel [i=argonel@konversation/developer/argonel] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
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17:13:47  <MeusH> hey Wolf01
17:14:15  <Wolf01> hola MeusH
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17:22:11  <Sacro> busy in here tonight
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17:26:04  <TL|Away> MiHaMiX: ping
17:27:00  <Sacro> TL|Away: pong
17:27:10  <TL|Away> Sacro: stop sniffing my packages
17:27:21  <Sacro> TL|Away: i never was
17:27:27  <TL|Away> and if you continue doing so, you have to pay the price! MWHAHAHAHA
17:27:37  <Sacro> .99 cover it?
17:27:44  * TL|Away calls some organization that can sue you!
17:27:44  <TL|Away> :p
17:27:50  <Jpl> now for .29!
17:28:09  <Sacro> TL|Away: i have no money!!!
17:28:11  <TL|Away> Jpl: so you make my price? :s
17:28:21  <TL|Away> this channel is getting weirder and weirder
17:28:55  <Sacro> TL|Away: sure its not just you?
17:29:01  *** mode/#openttd [+v Sacro] by ChanServ
17:29:07  <TL|Away> yeah, pretty sure
17:29:14  <MiHaMiX> TL|Away: pong.
17:30:18  *** tron_ [] has quit ["leaving"]
17:30:25  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: ping :D
17:30:37  <Sacro> and thus the circle is complete
17:31:11  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: pong.
17:31:41  <TL|Away> Sacro: now it is broken :p
17:32:03  <Sacro> TL|Away: aww :(, ill go find some duck tape
17:32:23  <TL|Away> you do that
17:34:35  * Sacro comes back with a duck and some tape
17:34:48  <anboni> quack
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17:49:03  <MiHaMiX> committime
17:49:12  <CIA-3> miham * r5389 /trunk/lang/ (american.txt italian.txt):
17:49:12  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-06-27 19:48:50
17:49:12  <CIA-3> american - 1 fixed by WhiteRabbit (1)
17:49:12  <CIA-3> italian - 1 fixed by sidew (1)
17:52:43  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: do you just type "committime" in IRC and it does it?
17:52:50  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: no :)
17:53:09  <Sacro> MiHaMiX: shame :P, it'd save you some time
17:53:16  <MiHaMiX> Sacro: i just noticed the time, and issued the appropriate command to commit the changes
17:53:32  <TL|Away> MiHaMiX: why no crontab? :p
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18:00:54  <MiHaMiX> TL|Away: it could be done in 30 seconds :)
18:03:12  <Wolf01> i found a bug on my transparency patch:
18:03:12  <Wolf01> [misc]
18:03:12  <Wolf01> in the openttd.cfg
18:03:44  <Sacro> Wolf01: well fix it then
18:04:11  <Wolf01> since i switched the position of transparent station signs and transparent trees entries, the last entry should be DO_TRANS_SIGNS or something else
18:04:22  <Sacro> hehe
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18:28:19  <CIA-3> miham * r5390 /trunk/lang/unfinished/bulgarian.txt: [Translations] Added initial bulgarian language (not even the headers are complete)
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18:42:12  <Sacro> arrrgh my brain hurts
18:43:07  <Brianetta> good
18:43:31  <Sacro> Brianetta: why is it?
18:43:54  <Brianetta> Serves you right for having a nerve ending in there.  Most of us don't/
18:44:14  <Sacro> hmm, explains a fair bit
18:44:30  <init> I just tried out the MiniIN branch...this is really cool. I especially like the new map generator.
18:45:00  <Brianetta> init: That map generator can be shoe-horned into the regular releases without too much pain
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18:45:38  * Brianetta is at home, in case you couldn't tell the different between me working and me at home
18:46:19  <Brianetta> Ah, I see Sacro has bought more vehicles
18:46:34  <Sacro> Brianetta: no he hasnt
18:46:41  <Brianetta> #:6(White) Company Name: 'Sacro Transport'  Year Founded: 1984  Money: 6725878 Loan: 0  Value: 7518949  (T:13, R:10, P:8, S:15)
18:46:41  <Brianetta> ...unless somebody else took over?
18:46:52  <Sacro> :|
18:46:58  <Sacro> yeah, i had 3 trains
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18:47:03  <Sacro> and 5 stations
18:47:12  <Brianetta> Well, now you have a bit of everything.
18:47:27  <Sacro> what r?
18:47:29  <init> Brianetta: I'd certainly like that, but I'd rather see it included officially instead of having to patch the game every time I get a new revision.
18:47:31  <Brianetta> road
18:47:51  <Brianetta> init: No need to patch - just save a new game / scenario and load it in the regular one
18:48:12  <Brianetta> I wish people would read my nightly's rules
18:48:19  <Sacro> hmm
18:48:24  <Sacro> what revision is nightly?
18:48:31  <Brianetta> 6 and 7:
18:48:32  <Brianetta> # The game will lose all company passwords if the server has to reload. This is unfortunately unavoidable. New players should not join existing companies without permission.
18:48:32  <Brianetta> # If you would like to start a company, but there are already too many, please ask an administrator if any abandoned companies can be closed down.
18:48:41  <Brianetta> r5370.
18:49:02  <Brianetta> I might add the rolling password system to the nightly
18:49:05  <Brianetta> because I'm a sod
18:49:09  <Sacro> Brianetta: but then i forget
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18:50:29  <Brianetta> Forget what?
18:50:31  <Sacro> Brianetta: please check your version
18:50:46  <Brianetta> r5389.
18:50:53  <Brianetta> I didn't refresh my server's page
18:50:56  <Brianetta> heh heh heh
18:51:14  <init> Brianetta: Remember the bugfix regarding lost events I mentioned last week? I updated it to work for rev 5388 for the trunk today, and posted it on Sourceforge. It is called patch no 1185254.
18:51:41  <Brianetta> init: Talk to peter1138 - he's been in a committive mood today.
18:51:45  <glx> init: try to put it on
18:52:37  <glx> I think this one is checked more often than
18:52:43  <Sacro> !slap Brianetta
18:52:47  <Brianetta> wot?
18:52:58  <Sacro> another svn co, make session :P
18:53:18  <Brianetta> Well
18:53:30  <Brianetta> you should have checked rather than ask me
18:53:38  <Brianetta> I automate so much stuff I don't know what's going on.
18:53:42  <Sacro> i did, but then you told me, so i closed it
18:53:51  <Sacro> !nightly should work
18:54:01  <Brianetta> My code is far more reliable than I am
18:54:21  <Sacro> i should hope so, for your customers sake
18:54:46  *** tokai|3 [] has joined #openttd
18:54:49  <Sacro> wish my code was as reliable as me, or just as sane
18:54:51  <Brianetta> Seriously for a moment, I have a phenomenal long term memory.  It's the root of my intelligence.  Retention in long term memory is practically eidetic.  Unfortunately, my short term memory suffers in proportion.
18:55:16  <Sacro> yeah, same here, ive got a useless short term memory, but once i remember something, i dont forget
18:55:52  <Brianetta> Sometimes I boil that damned kettle five or six times before I remember to pour the water into the pot while it's hot.  Then, of course, the pot goes cold before I remember to pour it.
18:56:17  <Brianetta> I'm good at tea, but it requires immense concentration.
18:56:45  <init> glx: Thanks! I didn't know about that one.
18:56:55  <Brianetta> That said, I can push/pop reams of code into and out of my short term memory while coding
18:57:09  <Brianetta> as long as nobody interrupts me
18:57:20  <Brianetta> It's like juggling
18:57:26  <Brianetta> holding that sort of state in your head
18:58:15  <Sacro> yeah
18:58:32  <Brianetta>
19:01:32  *** BJH [] has joined #openttd
19:04:08  <Sacro> hehe, tis so true
19:05:31  <Ihmemies> is it really neccessary to plant the trees again for lumber mills in subtropical climate?
19:05:36  <Ihmemies> by hand?
19:06:20  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Connection timed out]
19:07:14  *** tokai [] has quit [Connection timed out]
19:09:39  <Wolf01> if i want to insert a blank entry into the options menu (where is _display_opt) i simply skip the number of the blank entry like:
19:09:39  <Wolf01> case 11: _display_opt ^= DO_TRANS_SIGNS;        break;
19:09:39  <Wolf01> case 13: _display_opt ^= DO_TRANS_TREES;        break;
19:09:39  <Wolf01> ???
19:10:04  <Sacro> Wolf01: thats a baaaaaad idea
19:10:14  <Sacro> i think :S
19:10:25  *** Vornotron [] has left #openttd ["Leaving"]
19:10:26  <Sacro> if its runtime adjustable, you could
19:11:05  *** Vornicus [] has joined #openttd
19:11:13  <Wolf01> i thought that because now there are 4 transparency options them should be grouped apart
19:16:57  <Sacro> hmm, maybe
19:18:48  *** boivie [] has joined #openttd
19:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause> yay, i finally got multiple apps playing sound simultaneously ;)
19:36:17  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-195-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause> next step... hardware video accel.
19:36:53  <Eddi|zuHause> setting up linux is a nightmare
19:37:00  <Eddi|zuHause> but when it finally runs ;)
19:37:36  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-195-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:42:42  *** C-Funky [] has joined #openttd
19:42:46  <C-Funky> hi
19:42:51  <Scia> funky!
19:42:59  <Scia> hi
19:43:04  * Sacro considers learning VIM
19:43:16  <Sacro> hi C-Funky
19:43:24  <C-Funky> can someone here tell me how to patch ottd from .diff files? there are some patches i want, like the all trains to depot and waiting for new nightlies isn't too fun
19:43:37  <Sacro> C-Funky: which OS?
19:43:42  <C-Funky> windows xp :P
19:43:45  <C-Funky> pro
19:43:51  <Sacro> not corp?
19:43:56  <C-Funky> nope, hacked
19:44:02  <Sacro> corp then ;)
19:44:03  <C-Funky> sp1
19:44:09  <Sacro> not sp2?
19:44:16  <C-Funky> well, not corp, i got a serial number
19:44:16  *** jonty-comp [] has quit ["TV :D"]
19:44:40  <C-Funky> was too lazy for those updates, i got sp1 with the windows...
19:44:51  <Sacro> and now the FBI know about you
19:44:53  <Wolf01> grep: invalid option -- o
19:44:54  <Wolf01> Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]...
19:44:54  <Wolf01> Try `grep --help' for more information.
19:44:54  <Wolf01> svn: Errore di scrittura: Invalid argument
19:44:54  <Wolf01> how i can fix this error on msys?
19:45:15  <Sacro> whats it from?
19:46:22  <Wolf01> it comes out every time i use "make"
19:46:23  <C-Funky> i'm quite sure i know proudmoore from utopia...
19:46:25  <peter1138> o_O
19:46:29  <peter1138> update grep :P
19:46:55  *** e1ko [] has joined #openttd
19:47:47  <C-Funky> well Sacro can you teach me?
19:50:30  <C-Funky> anyone here?
19:52:40  * C-Funky slaps Sacro around a bit with a large trout
19:52:56  <ln-> that's it, kick him
19:52:57  <Brianetta> [20:05] <Ihmemies> is it really neccessary to plant the trees again for lumber mills in subtropical climate?
19:53:01  <Brianetta> Answer: Yes
19:53:11  <Eddi|zuHause> C-Funky: try the article about 'compiling on windows' in the wiki
19:53:48  <C-Funky> oook
19:54:31  <Eddi|zuHause> arghh... i must be blind... someone help me... there is an option in amaroK to keep the current song visible in the playlist, i have seen it before, but i cannot find it :(
19:54:48  *** black_Nightmare [] has joined #openttd
19:54:55  <black_Nightmare> hey brianetta
19:55:24  <anboni> Eddi|zuHause, do you mean you want to prevent amaroK from switching to the context tab?
19:55:34  <Brianetta> what's up?
19:55:49  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-195-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
19:55:51  <Eddi|zuHause> no, i mean it should scroll the playlist to whatever title is currently playing
19:55:53  <black_Nightmare> brianetta..when you plan to reset the server?
19:56:03  <Brianetta> My nightly?
19:56:06  <black_Nightmare> yeah
19:56:14  <Eddi|zuHause> (especially useful in random mode)
19:56:18  <anboni> hmm.. there's an option on the General tab, bottom 2 actually, that might be of interest
19:56:20  <Brianetta> It's now after 2050, so it'll be reset tomorrow night.
19:56:23  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-195-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
19:56:33  <black_Nightmare> tomorrow night?  just how long do you let the server run?
19:56:48  <black_Nightmare> I thought it should had restarted at around that year now
19:56:50  <C-Funky> hmm there are few options to compiling on windows, what proggy should i use?
19:57:10  <anboni> but which version of amaroK are you running? i believe suse by default includes a slightly older version
19:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i have seen it in the default version, but i updated to 1.4.1beta
19:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> and cannot find that option anymore
19:58:03  <Sacro> C-Funky: cygwin, mingw, Vis studio
19:58:11  <Eddi|zuHause> winamp did it that way, and i am so used to it :(
19:58:12  <anboni> hmm.. that's odd, you wouldn't think options would get removed in newer versions :) i'm running 1.4.0 and i do have those options
19:58:17  <black_Nightmare> brianetta? :p
19:58:29  <Sacro> Brianetta: PIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING :D
19:58:36  * Sacro uses supersonic bell
19:58:54  <Eddi|zuHause> can you point me to where? ;)
19:59:01  <Brianetta> wtf
19:59:03  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: where what?
19:59:04  <Brianetta> I didn't go anywhere
19:59:04  <black_Nightmare> lol sacro
19:59:12  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: it woke him up :)
19:59:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the exact position in the options ;)
19:59:20  * black_Nightmare chuckles
19:59:27  <Eddi|zuHause> in case i am really just blind ;)
19:59:27  <black_Nightmare> you sure are weird sacro
19:59:48  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: just move your fingers really slow
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19:59:52  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
19:59:57  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: you havent met me
20:00:13  <Sacro> ooh another person who things im wierd
20:00:22  <Sacro> s/g/k/
20:00:37  * black_Nightmare pokes sacro :p
20:00:49  <Eddi|zuHause> ever considered that might be, because you actually are? ;)
20:01:00  <init> Who maintains I tried to register a new user, and get three PHP "undefined variable/index" PHP errors.
20:01:10  * Sacro sqeaks
20:01:16  <Eddi|zuHause> init: ignore that ;)
20:01:35  *** C-Funky [] has quit []
20:01:40  <init> Eddi|zuHause: If you say so...
20:02:06  <black_Nightmare> so brianetta ..usually what year do you let your server run to?
20:02:28  <Brianetta> 2050, then whatever it gets to by the time it's upgraded
20:02:36  <Brianetta> This is all covered on the web page
20:02:50  <Ihmemies> Why trees don't grow themselves in sub-tropical land?
20:02:50  * Sacro had his company taken over :(
20:02:55  <Ihmemies> it's a chore to add trees manually ;P
20:03:00  <Ihmemies> for lumber mills
20:03:03  <Brianetta> Ihmemies: They do, but they're chopped faster
20:03:07  <Eddi|zuHause> drag&drop?
20:03:46  <black_Nightmare> you mean it possible could go to 2060+ before it finally geta reset if some players were on it a lot?
20:04:22  <Ihmemies> Eddi|zuHause, yeah
20:04:30  <Ihmemies> but when you have like 60 lumber mills.. :D
20:04:37  <Frostregen> still not reset?
20:04:47  <Ihmemies> it would be nice if the lumber mills planted trees themselves
20:04:50  <Ihmemies> with drag&drop
20:04:52  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: been up to 2070/2080 before i think
20:04:59  <Ihmemies> and reduce the money from company's budget ;)
20:05:22  <Frostregen> I'm waiting for 2 days to get a free company ;)
20:06:05  <Sacro> FredNeuberger: on brianettas server?
20:06:17  <Sacro> Frostregen even :P
20:06:21  <Frostregen> yep
20:06:32  <black_Nightmare> I see...well..let me try the nightly download and look at it
20:07:03  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: noooo, too many people as it is
20:07:11  <Sacro> Brianetta: you need to allow more players on your server
20:07:19  <Frostregen> lol
20:07:26  <black_Nightmare> what you mean sacro?
20:07:33  *** DJ_Mirage [] has quit ["Probably doing something else"]
20:07:39  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: theres only 8 companies, and it gets full REALLY quick
20:08:00  <black_Nightmare> sacro..ever heard of spectate? ;)
20:08:14  <Eddi|zuHause> make 256 player patch and get it included into trunk ;)
20:08:14  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: yes
20:08:19  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: 255 :P
20:08:40  <Sacro> -1 for scenario gen
20:08:46  <Sacro> -1 for towns...-1 for water
20:08:51  <Brianetta> What we really need is more nightly servers
20:08:56  <Frostregen> -1 server
20:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause> make another ;)
20:09:15  <Frostregen> too much work to maintain :/
20:09:17  <Sacro> Brianetta: yeah, i'd like a MiniIN server with your rules
20:09:26  <Brianetta> I don't have the resources for a fourth server
20:09:41  <Sacro> i have the resources, but not allowed to leave a system running if im not on it :(
20:09:49  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't have the ressources for a first server :(
20:10:04  *** Scia [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:10:08  <Sacro> hmm, orudge is away...maybe i could run one :P
20:10:14  *** dp_ [] has joined #openttd
20:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause> tzzz :)
20:10:46  <black_Nightmare> oh great
20:10:51  <black_Nightmare> I remember why I quitted playing suddenly
20:11:07  <black_Nightmare> can't ask trains to turn around inside 2-way station platforms
20:11:28  <black_Nightmare> hm I'll maybe just watch tho
20:12:07  <Sacro> lol
20:12:31  <Sacro> hmm, top entry in /. is worrying
20:13:04  *** Tron_ [] has joined #openttd
20:13:12  <Brianetta> Not scary at all
20:13:27  <black_Nightmare> sacro..just curious, what kind of station layouts you typically take?
20:13:55  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: err, 5x2 roro
20:14:22  <Sacro> 3x2 for low production
20:14:26  <Sacro> usually 20x4 for goods
20:14:38  <hylje> yay, completed conversion to monorail @ 2010
20:14:53  <black_Nightmare> sacro...heh for me...
20:15:12  <hylje> :b
20:15:36  <Brianetta> Heh heh - people should make sure their fonts are theirs
20:16:25  <black_Nightmare> I usually just slap whatever platform in either axis I need (got love the old ttdpatch nonuniform station option) and if its passenger or multiply pickups in single freight type train I am known to frequently have passthrough stations with depot on one side
20:16:54  <black_Nightmare> some of these stations... one train just stop and go through on a platform .. another time train uses same platform and turns around to head back where it came from instead...depending on the route
20:17:15  <Sacro> i do have all platforms going the same way
20:17:42  <Sacro> Brianetta: well, what about ones like comic sans...TNR, verdana etc?
20:17:50  <black_Nightmare> never really had any fixed platform sizes...once had to use waypoint because one 2-way platform was only 4 tiles long but another was 7 tiles long .. and both were on the same route for many trains :))
20:18:21  <black_Nightmare> one second..
20:19:57  *** Sionide [] has quit [Connection timed out]
20:21:45  <Brianetta> Sacro: MS copyright
20:21:51  <Brianetta> Sacro: ALways read the license agreement
20:22:24  *** dp-- [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
20:22:24  *** dp_ is now known as dp--
20:22:24  <Brianetta> Some are licensed for publication if you own a license for the OS they came with
20:22:36  <Brianetta> Others aren't
20:22:47  <Sacro> Brianetta: i have a win95 liicence somewhere
20:23:00  <hylje> Sacro: same, 98 too
20:23:00  *** sw4y [] has quit ["Odletam do paralelniho vesmiru..."]
20:23:05  <Sacro> actually, this laptop came with XP home originally, but it now runs Linux
20:23:21  <Brianetta> Well, like all copyright, it's for courts to decide, if/when you're sued
20:23:59  <Sacro> hmm, i avoid courtes
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20:30:40  <black_Nightmare> screenshot coming up in a second :p
20:30:49  <Sacro> ooooh goody
20:33:25  <hylje> chown -x chown
20:33:30  <trogdorx> hey
20:33:33  <Eddi|zuHause> for passengers, i usually use 2-way-roro...
20:33:41  <trogdorx> im getting 2 errors trying to compile the linux souce
20:33:42  <trogdorx> /usr/lib/ undefined reference to `__fprintf_chk@GLIBC_2.3.4'
20:33:42  <trogdorx> /usr/lib/ undefined reference to `__snprintf_chk@GLIBC_2.3.4'
20:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd sooo love real 2-way stations, but they are just not usable right now
20:37:31  <black_Nightmare> sorry if it seem a bit shrunk but thats not much I can do with it...
20:37:32  <black_Nightmare>
20:37:37  <Sacro> trogdorx: hmm, sounds like glibc is borked
20:37:43  <black_Nightmare> 3 of the few station layouts I usually use
20:37:52  <trogdorx> ah
20:37:55  <Sacro> .pict?
20:37:56  <trogdorx> i didnt have zlib :)
20:37:57  <trogdorx> my bad
20:38:02  <black_Nightmare> the sign is supposed to say '(insert any rail length here)' anyhow
20:38:25  <black_Nightmare> the single platform station is usually far away from the mainline but I couldn't show that in one single screenshot so anyhow
20:38:36  *** hapo [] has joined #openttd
20:38:40  <hapo> oh, this much people here :)
20:39:03  <Sacro> hapo: nope, noone here
20:39:15  * Sacro flees
20:39:25  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: how on earth do i open it?
20:39:49  <black_Nightmare> I use station #1 when bordering a city.... or station #2 if space is tight that I have to use straight mainline tracks instead
20:39:53  <black_Nightmare> sacro..just open it..thats all
20:39:54  <hapo> I'm an old active writer
20:39:57  <hapo> and a former simutrans developer
20:40:01  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: gnome has nothing associated
20:40:20  <black_Nightmare> hapo..heh I'm guessing you took part in the code of ttdx?
20:40:37  <hapo> just played OpenTTD much for the first time a few days ago
20:40:39  <black_Nightmare> sacro...umm...I dunno what to do with linux users some of the times sorry :p
20:40:57  <hapo> and actually a transport tycoon game for the first time for a few years :)
20:41:08  <hapo> the last time I had played OpenTTD was when the project started
20:41:18  <hapo> quite impressive work, I would say!
20:41:30  <hapo> I'm pretty impressed by it :)
20:41:34  <hapo> black_Nightmare: nope :P not that famous
20:41:41  <black_Nightmare> hapo...fair enough lol
20:41:45  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: well the gimp wont have it
20:41:48  <hapo> do you know simutrans?
20:41:52  <hapo> it's a TT clone
20:42:21  <black_Nightmare> I rather go as ttdpatch mainly with the occassional online (till someone tell me where a ttdpatch online player is meh) server on openttd once in a while
20:42:23  <Sacro> ive heard of it, confused me
20:42:32  <black_Nightmare> just so you knew anyhow hapo
20:42:41  <hapo> ok :)
20:43:11  <black_Nightmare> hapo...beside..I'm sure I'm not the only one to admit it but then using PBS and being able to change landscape without deleting rail ---- fun and more fun
20:43:29  <black_Nightmare> (try have an openttd station where trains can enter and leave at same time in a single junction lol)
20:43:48  <hapo> I didn't even know about that feature yet :o
20:44:04  <black_Nightmare> well its been around a long time in ttdpatch as I noticed from the changelog
20:44:07  <hapo> seems to be so that there has appeared a lot of features during the last couple of years :)
20:44:17  * black_Nightmare upgraded to 2.5 beta 6 as soon as that came out too
20:44:21  <black_Nightmare> :P
20:44:47  *** boivie [] has quit ["Download Gaim:"]
20:45:19  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: this is #openttd :)
20:45:39  <black_Nightmare> sacro..not sure whats with your linux but windows/mac/bsd can open these picture type just fine themself
20:45:54  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: using what programs...?
20:45:59  <Sacro> bsd especially
20:49:38  <hylje> black_Nightmare: what prevents you from using internet-portable graphics, such as png
20:50:01  <black_Nightmare> hm can't recall what I was told for netbsd especially but... anyway for mac its quickdraw, pictviewer, jpegviewer, and whatever author-created ones there are .. re windows there's probably tons
20:50:29  <Vornicus> what kind of image?
20:50:36  <black_Nightmare> hylje... there's no png save option (my main browser wouldn't have supported it here anyhow)
20:51:04  <hapo> speaking of browsers, I'm also an opera software freelancer :)
20:51:07  <Vornicus>
20:51:09  <Vornicus> PICT!?
20:51:10  <black_Nightmare> jpeg has weird ideas when it comes to the colours used in ttdpatch/openttd screenshots sometimes so..meh
20:51:21  <Vornicus> Dude.
20:51:26  <Vornicus> DUde, dude.
20:51:26  <black_Nightmare> I don't use jpeg option at least (for screenshots)
20:51:44  *** GoneWacko [] has quit ["It's a new quit message!"]
20:51:50  <Vornicus> PICT is so disused that even the people who used it most don't even touch it anymore.
20:51:56  <Vornicus> Safari doesn't know what the hell it is.
20:52:00  <black_Nightmare> want a 4+MB bmp file then?
20:52:01  <hylje> i dont either
20:52:03  <black_Nightmare> I would rather -not-
20:52:14  <hylje> rather use jpeg with artifacts than a unopenable file
20:52:29  <black_Nightmare> hylje..its openable on three platforms easily
20:52:35  <Vornicus> To something I can't open?  Certainly
20:52:44  <black_Nightmare> and 2  major platforms have it installed natively
20:53:10  <Vornicus> b_N: what the hell kind of computer are you using that you don't have PNG support?
20:53:16  <Vornicus> Everybody and their dog supports PNG.
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20:55:34  <black_Nightmare> think so maybe but check out the few useable browser for mac os and try find the one that doesn't crash when loading and can understand modern html
20:55:40  <black_Nightmare> (btw I said mac os.. not X)
20:56:03  <black_Nightmare> and most of these browser needs plugin for png .. and viewers are few
20:56:20  <hylje> same can be said for pict
20:56:20  <black_Nightmare> (except for lynx which of course doesn't know graphics)
20:56:21  <Sacro> if its a standard format, then linux should have it
20:56:27  <Sacro> or at least The Gimp
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20:56:44  <black_Nightmare> hylje..nah...even NS opens pict directly after a fresh installion
20:56:53  <black_Nightmare> (no configuration)
20:57:02  <black_Nightmare> but it red-X on any png
20:57:28  <hylje> png is a recent format, and all recent browsers and image viewers support it
20:57:51  <Sacro> my god, use an old format then
20:57:52  <black_Nightmare> do any "recent" browser run on os 8/9?
20:58:21  <hylje> not sure, no one really supports os8/9 anymore
20:58:36  <black_Nightmare> hm reminds me...funny old kodak digital wants to save to tiff by default..I keep having to change that for every picture I want to save
20:58:37  <Sacro> i got winuae, and deluxe paint 2
20:58:44  <Sacro> tiff is good, i can view that
20:58:57  <hylje> gimp says "unknown format"
20:59:09  <hylje> and there is no lib to open pict
20:59:22  <black_Nightmare> hylje...many softwares do support even system 8.5 (and sometimes 7.x but these are usually small desktop softwares) .. its always the browser coders that seem to fail to keep up at all
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20:59:55  <black_Nightmare> sacro...well tiff doesn't work well everywhere so I'm not quite inclined to use it anyhow
21:00:02  <hylje> pict doesnt either
21:00:07  <black_Nightmare> (I mean my multiply systems)
21:00:08  <hylje> i have no way to open it on linux
21:00:22  <Sacro> hmm, i might just read it in hex...
21:00:30  <black_Nightmare> hylje..not my fault but pict had always been supported from system 7 on the mac side
21:00:37  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
21:00:39  <black_Nightmare> and even windows knew what it was for some time too
21:00:58  <Sacro> system 7?
21:01:02  <Sacro> hmm, this is system 5 :(
21:01:13  <hylje> i spose its such an obsolete format that the linux hackers didnt think it would be useful to reverse engineer
21:02:05  <black_Nightmare> well bmp is too evil space-wasting :p
21:02:11  <black_Nightmare> hehe
21:02:36  <black_Nightmare> jpeg works for simple graphics tho anyhow (just not game screenshots)
21:02:45  <hylje> any screenshots for that matter
21:02:51  <hylje> designed for photographs
21:03:10  *** SchAmane [] has joined #openttd
21:03:34  <hylje> according to wikipedia, pict is just the mac os native image format, not really meant to be used on the internets
21:03:50  <black_Nightmare> bmp was not..but people still coded it
21:04:38  <hylje> bmp is uncompressed image data without alpha channel (24-bit)
21:05:05  <Eddi|zuHause> "With the change to Mac OS X, PICT was dropped in favour of Portable Document Format (PDF) as the native metafile format"
21:05:22  <Eddi|zuHause> so it is even an outdated format :p
21:06:02  <Sacro> yeek, PDF for images
21:06:04  <Sacro> nooo
21:06:19  * black_Nightmare never bothered with pdf..either there's a html version or it gets the grind of a pdf>html conversion
21:06:56  <hylje> Sacro: afaik all osx interface elements are stored as pdf
21:07:12  <black_Nightmare> only adobe software I really got at all is one photoshop 5 (full) cd
21:08:20  <Sacro> i have acrobat pro, CS2 suite, audition
21:08:21  <black_Nightmare> hm which of that reminds me...some people come up with odd stuffix for some websites sometimes..I recall seeing one that was like *.pl .. but it could had worked as the same as if it was ended in *.html instead
21:08:37  <hylje> perl script
21:08:42  * Sacro sighs
21:08:48  <black_Nightmare> yeah but the source was all html
21:08:52  <hylje> yep
21:08:52  <black_Nightmare> goes to show weird webmasters
21:08:53  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: you get it with php sometimes too...
21:09:14  <hylje> i could rewrite my *.php scripts to *.foobar
21:09:21  <hylje> and it would work the same
21:09:22  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: the webserver uses the perl script to generate the html
21:09:36  <black_Nightmare> one thing I still never understood sometimes was...
21:09:42  <Sacro> and then when you view source, it shows the generated html, not the precious code needed to generate it
21:09:59  <black_Nightmare> why do we have both .html and .htm ??  I can understand the dos reasoning for .htm but ... why having two stuffixs even to today? :-/
21:10:07  <black_Nightmare> go figure
21:10:17  <peter1138> because windows users are lame...
21:10:29  <black_Nightmare> oh yeah -- NEVER TOUCH FRONTPAGE FOR YOUR WEBSITE!! .. tons of junk codes :))
21:10:33  <black_Nightmare> tell them :))
21:10:34  <Eddi|zuHause> .html is the 'real' one, and .htm is just backwards compatibility
21:10:50  <black_Nightmare> eddi..yeah that figured, all of my pages are html
21:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause> and since in browsers, the ending is really unimportant, why bother who uses what?
21:11:23  <hylje> frontpage outputs .htm by default
21:11:51  <hylje> www pages should be able to have any suffix
21:11:59  <black_Nightmare> got a point but still....typing from memory or from card sometimes results in quirky things
21:12:01  <hylje> or no suffix at all
21:12:16  <black_Nightmare> like eg you are always used to tying 'html' that you get immedate 404 error on a site that still used .htm
21:12:25  <black_Nightmare> if anyone know what I mean
21:13:27  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody types out urls ;)
21:14:03  <black_Nightmare> how do you explain magazines and/or business card?
21:14:09  <black_Nightmare> :p
21:14:16  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
21:14:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand that question
21:14:27  *** paulsen [] has joined #openttd
21:14:29  <black_Nightmare> printed url on them that is
21:14:34  <black_Nightmare> you got to type it by hand into your computer
21:14:35  <black_Nightmare> ;)
21:14:45  <Eddi|zuHause> well... you just google it ;)
21:15:01  <paulsen> I'm trying to fund a new factory in the desert, but it tells me that the "site unsuitable"
21:15:04  <paulsen> any idea why?
21:16:05  <hylje> generally business cards have just ""
21:16:34  <hylje> any human-entered addresses should be subdomain.domain.tld or domain.tld/dir
21:17:06  <Eddi|zuHause> YAY
21:17:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i managed to open the picture ;)
21:17:19  <Sacro> most things put, they dont specify any subdomains, or even a protocol :S
21:17:28  <Eddi|zuHause> when you have ImageMagick installed
21:17:39  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause: do us a favor and mirror a png
21:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause> type 'convert blubb blah'
21:17:49  <black_Nightmare>
21:17:59  <Sacro> hmm, random foreign lasses are adding me on skype
21:18:15  <black_Nightmare> well...for the record.. my site is not at index.html so.. good luck not typing in the proper page name
21:18:25  <black_Nightmare> but then whatever, thats another topic
21:18:28  <Sacro> URLS? i just type a rough idea into firefox
21:18:37  <Sacro> i dont use URI's much either
21:18:51  <black_Nightmare> too?  I've heard of the same complains in another irc channel too
21:18:54  <black_Nightmare> (re skype)
21:19:07  <Sacro> black_Nightmare: yeah, used to be like that in ICQ too
21:19:17  <Sacro> its even worse on IRC, loads of strange foreigners
21:19:24  <black_Nightmare> hmm odd....wonder what these stupid people were thinking
21:19:33  <black_Nightmare> (maybe they are like email spammers)
21:19:54  <hylje> Sacro: heh
21:19:57  *** tokai|odw [] has joined #openttd
21:19:58  <Sacro> i keep getting people wanting to see me on cam on msn
21:20:39  *** lws1984 [] has joined #openttd
21:21:16  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
21:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> how can i use konqueror to copy via SSH?
21:21:31  <Sacro> ssh://wherever?
21:22:25  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-195-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["Gone"]
21:22:53  *** Jenkz [] has quit []
21:23:15  *** Sacro [n=ben@adsl-83-100-195-126.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:23:27  <Sacro> whoops
21:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... that opens a console
21:24:00  <Sacro> yep
21:25:31  <Sacro> coudl be FISH
21:26:02  <CIA-3> tron * r5391 /trunk/ (77 files in 8 dirs): Miscellaneous, mostly bracing and whitespace, nothing spectacular
21:26:09  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
21:26:15  <paulsen> I'm trying to fund a new factory in the desert, but it tells me that the "site unsuitable"
21:26:21  <paulsen> any idea why? :/
21:26:38  <paulsen> I'm playing on the africa map that comes with openttd btw.
21:27:25  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: fish://
21:27:47  <Sacro> wow thats ace
21:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it appears to be sftp://
21:28:41  <Sacro> thats secure ftp
21:28:50  <Sacro> im actually logged in via ssh
21:29:54  <Sacro> FIles transferrer over SHell protocol is a protocol to use SSH or rsh to transfer files between computers. Serverside, FISH requires nothing more than a working unix shell, and doesn't require file transfer to be enabled on the SSH server. Optionally, there can be a special FISH server program start_fish_server installed on the server.
21:31:34  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: see that?
21:32:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the file might now be found at
21:33:16  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: tis
21:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause> ?
21:35:12  *** ammler [] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]"]
21:35:49  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: its there :P
21:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> ah... spell that out netxt time ;)
21:36:42  <Eddi|zuHause> -t
21:37:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hylje: highlight special for you, incase you missed it ;)
21:37:46  *** ammler [] has joined #openttd
21:40:15  <paulsen> huh
21:40:25  <paulsen> there is -1- factory on the entire map
21:40:28  <paulsen> this must be a bug?
21:40:39  <paulsen> the africa map that comes with openttd
21:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause> did you try placing it elsewhere?
21:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> did you try flat land?
21:41:12  <paulsen> yes, I've tried alot of places
21:41:13  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
21:41:19  <paulsen> and the spot where i want it is -very- flat
21:41:26  <paulsen> atleast 100x100 with flat land
21:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause> and outside desert?
21:41:52  <paulsen> yep, desert
21:42:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean different terrain types... desert (sand) or tropic (grass)?
21:43:14  *** Maedhros [n=jc@gentoo/developer/Maedhros] has quit ["leaving"]
21:45:04  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause: ty
21:45:12  *** black_Nightmare [] has left #openttd ["bye"]
21:54:02  *** angerman_ [] has joined #openttd
21:56:06  *** BobingAbout [n=BobingAb@adsl-83-100-150-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:56:20  <BobingAbout> evening
21:57:13  <Sacro> BobingAbout: evening
22:00:07  *** lws1984 [] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
22:02:51  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:03:08  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
22:03:22  *** BobingAbout [n=BobingAb@adsl-83-100-150-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:04:20  <imav> hey sacro
22:04:28  <Sacro> hi imav
22:04:34  <Sacro> how'd the exam go?
22:04:40  <imav> it went well. Very well.
22:04:44  <Ihmemies> REPLANTING TREES SUX
22:04:47  <Ihmemies> aaaarghhh
22:05:09  <imav> any sign of that binary?
22:05:11  <paulsen> Eddi|zuHause: huh. it worked on grass
22:05:26  <Sacro> imav: cool
22:05:34  *** angerman [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:05:39  <Sacro> imav: im sorry, ive got a memory like a seive, what binary was it you wanted?
22:05:46  <imav> hehe
22:05:49  * Sacro recalls something about RH
22:05:53  <imav> redhat i386
22:06:12  <imav> my friend was saying his memory was really good, like "a sieve without holes"
22:06:39  <peter1138> sounds like mine
22:06:39  *** BobingAbout [n=BobingAb@adsl-83-100-150-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:06:52  <peter1138> but mine's a sieve without holes except for one big one
22:07:01  <Sacro> imav: doesnt redhat have a compiler?
22:07:06  *** BobingAbout [n=BobingAb@adsl-83-100-150-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Client Quit]
22:07:18  <imav> the situation is this
22:08:07  <imav> my home computer is ppc, and the system I want to run ottd on has rh, but no SDL, and I don't have the means to install it, particularly with my limited command of all things *nix
22:08:16  <Sacro> ahhh
22:08:21  <Sacro> make DEDICATED:=1
22:08:43  <Sacro> well, thats once you have downloaded and uncompressed it
22:08:47  <imav> yeah
22:08:49  *** BobingAbout [n=BobingAb@adsl-83-100-150-177.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:09:16  * imav crosses fingers
22:09:23  <Sacro> i cant compile for PPC yet im afraid
22:09:33  <Sacro> i dont think anywya
22:09:36  <imav> what exactly does DEDICATED:=1 do?
22:09:46  <peter1138> builds a dedicated server
22:09:47  <glx> for dedicated server
22:09:47  <Sacro> imav: wasnt it a dedicated server you wnted?
22:09:56  <BobingAbout> I'm on!!!
22:09:56  <Sacro> seeing as you dont have SDL its all you can do
22:10:02  <Sacro> BobingAbout: are
22:11:56  <Sacro> and all goes silent
22:12:14  <imav> yes that's exactly what I wanted, thanks a bunch!
22:12:19  <BobingAbout> right
22:12:29  <imav> didn't know SDL wasn't needed for a dedicated server
22:12:33  <Sacro> imav: hehe, sorry it took so long, but at least your there now
22:12:39  <imav> no no, no problem
22:12:42  <BobingAbout> anyone "Important" to the what i wanted to discus on sacro?
22:12:44  <Sacro> nope, SDL is for graphics and sounds
22:12:54  <imav> neat
22:13:01  <imav> all set, perfect
22:13:08  <Sacro> BobingAbout: i think you need one of the newgrf people
22:13:25  <imav> now to learn about operating it
22:13:26  <BobingAbout> i thought it was about signals
22:13:27  <imav> to the manual!
22:13:29  <Sacro> imav: nice :)
22:13:37  <Bjarni> <-- happy proofreading :P
22:13:37  <BobingAbout> KUDr is on
22:13:47  <Sacro> imav: look up the wiki, mainly the console stuff
22:13:54  <imav> yeah
22:14:03  * Sacro sets his Bjarni clock for 10 mins
22:14:26  <Sacro> Bjarni: ouch, thats a nasty thing to sort
22:15:08  <Bjarni> ...
22:15:20  <Bjarni> oh the topic rule thing
22:15:30  <Sacro> hehe, yeah, i thought it was put up for you
22:15:40  <Bjarni> I outrank peter1138, so I declare that it do not apply to me
22:15:56  <Sacro> ooh, clever
22:15:56  <KUDr> BobingAbout: what?
22:16:12  *** Bjarni changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.4.7 | WebTranslator2 public beta test begun! | Website: * (Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Bug-reports: bugs) | Anyone (besides operators) posting any or URL twice in 10 minutes will be banned
22:16:15  <Sacro> KUDr: we where wondering about the new signalling system to be built on yapf
22:16:34  <Sacro> Bjarni: some would say that was cheating :P
22:16:34  <KUDr> i am wondering too
22:16:55  <Sacro> KUDr: hmm, thats not good
22:17:06  <Bjarni> besides it would be lame to post the SAME link twice in 10 minutes....
22:17:08  <KUDr> Sacro: why?
22:17:20  <BobingAbout> I'm playing WoW, so, be with you in a moment
22:17:25  <KUDr> still many unclear points
22:17:30  <BobingAbout> i died because of some kind of horrific lag
22:17:36  <Sacro> KUDr: you wrote YAPF, just thought ud know it the best
22:17:42  <Wolf01> uhm, i'm going mad
22:17:42  <Wolf01> if ((GB(_display_opt,7,4)==0) || (GB(_display_opt,7,4)==15)) {
22:17:42  <Wolf01>   _display_opt |= 1920; //11110000000
22:17:42  <Wolf01> }
22:17:42  <Wolf01> why doesn't work? it has to toggle the first four bits on the left
22:17:45  <Sacro> im gonna start reading up on it though
22:18:03  <Sacro> :|
22:18:06  *** Dred_furst [] has quit ["( :: NoNameScript 4.0 :: )"]
22:18:10  <Bjarni> BobingAbout: the guy you were fighting most likely found your IP and started a DDoS attack to make you lag :P
22:18:23  * Sacro kills ping
22:18:33  <BobingAbout> it was a NPC Pig
22:18:55  <Sacro> Wolf01: 1920?
22:18:57  <Bjarni> so you should blame Blizzard
22:19:10  <Wolf01> 1920 = 11110000000 in binary
22:19:18  <Sacro> ahh, right
22:19:30  <Sacro> and why 13 bit?
22:19:44  *** Rens2Sea [n=Rens2Sea@] has quit []
22:19:49  <Wolf01> are 11 bits
22:19:53  <Sacro> or even 11
22:19:59  <Sacro> that seems a strange number
22:20:01  <BobingAbout> sacro is a frube. thats why he said 13
22:20:07  <Wolf01> because i have 11 entries on the menu
22:20:23  <Sacro> yes but i dont think you can have an 11bit number can you?
22:20:41  <Wolf01> why not?
22:20:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: what you need is XOR (^) not OR (|)
22:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> OR sets bits
22:21:19  <Eddi|zuHause> XOR toggles bits
22:21:26  <Wolf01> uhm
22:21:32  <BobingAbout> give it a 16 bit number, and just don't use the other 5
22:21:47  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: ah yes
22:21:55  <imav> sorry, but how does the server know who the administrator is?
22:22:01  <Sacro> AND makes 0, OR makes 1, XOR toggles
22:22:02  <imav> is it just the first user to join, or what?
22:22:04  <Wolf01> i have to split the if into 2 parts, because i must don't touch bits from 0 to 7
22:22:06  <Sacro> imav: set a password
22:22:17  <Sacro> the admin is the server itself
22:22:30  <Sacro> and then whoever has rcon access
22:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> imav: administrator is only the server, anyone connecting is normal user
22:23:12  <imav> so how do you define who has rcon access?
22:23:29  <Sacro> imav: set an rcon password, and only give it to admins
22:23:34  <imav> oh just found that, heh
22:23:36  <imav> thanks
22:23:57  <BobingAbout> admins, like me :P
22:24:21  <imav> it can only support one game at a time, right?
22:24:33  *** RichK67 [n=RichK67@] has joined #openttd
22:24:57  <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to have two servers, start the program twice
22:25:06  <Sacro> and use different ports
22:25:06  <RichK67> hi all
22:25:09  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to fiddle around with IPs though
22:25:13  <Sacro> hey RichK67, hows you?
22:25:15  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: no you dont
22:25:19  <Sacro> just change the port
22:25:32  <RichK67> tired
22:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i heard that would not work properly, with advertising especially
22:26:01  <Sacro> changing the ip doesnt work with advertising
22:26:13  <BobingAbout> right, WoW is kinda dead... either hydra is eating all my bandwidth, or its just gone crazy
22:26:13  <Sacro> because its only an internal IP
22:26:26  <BobingAbout> anyway, is KUDr still on?
22:26:36  <KUDr> maybe
22:26:50  <Sacro> KUDr: prove it
22:27:02  <KUDr> ok, looks so
22:27:10  <Sacro> hmm, good enough for me
22:27:10  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik, Celestar wanted to do something with the signals, but he has not been here in weeks
22:27:19  <Sacro> yeah, didnt he do a document
22:27:26  <BobingAbout> me and ben/sacro wanted to talk about signals, and aparantly, he thought it was a good idea to talk to you about it
22:27:55  <Sacro> well i thought the new signalling system was going to be built on YAPF, so i presumed KUDr would know a fair bit
22:28:05  <Sacro> and who did the old yellow signals patch?
22:28:14  <RichK67> nah, he's just the slave who has to do the work ;)
22:28:42  <KUDr> heh
22:28:46  <Sacro> RichK67: that a subtle complaint about your job?
22:29:05  <KUDr> Sacro: BobingAbout: so talk about it
22:29:16  <RichK67> nah, im just knackered - and after last nights patch-fest, having a night off ;)
22:29:27  <Sacro> RichK67: ahhh, a good rest
22:29:57  <BobingAbout> erm
22:30:01  <RichK67> well, if you call preparing my VAT accounts a rest, then yes ;)
22:30:22  <BobingAbout> anyone seen the new signals i've kinda been working on?
22:30:25  *** Mucht is now known as Mucht|zZz
22:30:29  <Wolf01> ok, i changed: the whole code is
22:30:30  <Wolf01> if (GB(_display_opt,7,4)==0) {
22:30:30  <Wolf01>   _display_opt |= 1920; //11110000000
22:30:30  <Wolf01> } else { //re sets the transparency to visible for all things
22:30:30  <Wolf01>   _display_opt &= 127;
22:30:30  <Wolf01>   _transp_opt &= 127; //reset also the temp variable for the shift
22:30:32  <Wolf01> }
22:30:34  <Wolf01> but when all the four left bits are 0, the if is false and i don't know why, so it resets the 4 bits everytime
22:30:51  <RichK67> yeah - pretty graphics bobing... just need some code to go with them :P
22:31:21  <BobingAbout> thats what this "talk" is about
22:31:23  *** bulio|out is now known as bulio
22:31:37  <BobingAbout> there are 2 ways things can go
22:31:48  <Sacro> RichK67: just discussing having yellow signals, as well as seperate home/distant semaphores
22:32:28  <BobingAbout> have like the current yellow signals patch, where the signals are all in 1 GRF fine in a certain order, and have openttd read it by name, or, have some sort of NFO flags in there, and read it by actions
22:32:37  <BobingAbout> I'd prefer the later
22:32:55  <RichK67> ah - brings back memories of a misspent youth sneaking into the local signal box :)
22:33:27  <BobingAbout> basicly, it started by wanting to add the priority signal, as you've probably read on the forums
22:33:41  <Ihmemies> tree planting suckss
22:33:47  <Wolf01> i post the problem in the forum because i'm going to bed, 'night everybody
22:33:49  <Sacro> RichK67: thats kind of illegal
22:33:54  <Ihmemies> why lumber mills @ subtropical use trees :/
22:33:59  *** Wolf01 [] has quit ["e ricordate, per la legge di avogadro non esiste cazzo quadro"]
22:34:22  <hylje> because they got to get the lumber from something
22:34:27  <hylje> they arent magical factories
22:34:34  *** ammler is now known as ammler_away
22:34:37  <RichK67> sacro: i even pulled a few signals (under supervision) to let the trains through (Devon mainline near Exeter)
22:34:49  <Sacro> RichK67: nice one
22:35:12  <BobingAbout> bet it crashed
22:35:15  <RichK67> yeah - that signal box is now a birdwatching hide... bah!! progress :(
22:36:36  <RichK67> lol - nah, it was a great place though - really atmospheric with a coal fire, signalman smoking a pipe... ive got some old photos taken in there... it was all manual, no electrics
22:36:47  <KUDr> sorry for being so dumb, but what you wanted to discuss?
22:36:48  <Sacro> nmm
22:37:00  <RichK67> sorry - getting old ;)
22:37:04  <BobingAbout> :P
22:37:13  <BobingAbout> right
22:37:19  <BobingAbout> signals
22:37:40  <BobingAbout> basicly, we want many sets of signals, rather than just semaphores and lights
22:37:43  * KUDr is open for ideas, but you must explain them
22:38:01  <KUDr> so custom signals
22:38:11  <KUDr> each with different behavior?
22:38:13  <BobingAbout> but in a more costomisable fasion than the existing TTDPatch type NSignalsw.grf
22:38:18  <BobingAbout> erm, mostly, yes
22:38:48  <KUDr> i dont know that
22:38:59  <KUDr> what it allows?
22:39:04  <BobingAbout> the nsignalsw.grf specifies 1 action, and has to be followed by the entire block of signals, i find this a bit nasty if lets say you wanted to replace 1 set and not others
22:39:39  <KUDr> entire block of signals?
22:40:01  <Sacro> i think there should be a new newsignals newgrf newspec :P
22:40:07  <BobingAbout> so, i wanted to reserve a few extra NFO action instructions to be able to define what the signal graphics you are adding seperatly
22:40:42  <BobingAbout> the current system, ALL graphics need to be in the same action block, 1 action followed by about 240 graphics
22:40:47  <KUDr> BobingAbout: can there be just one custom signal that will be scripted?
22:40:49  <BobingAbout> thats just nasty
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22:41:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought dalestan was the newgrf spec nerd ;)
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22:41:37  <BobingAbout> what i want to do is create a slightly more costomisable newGRF NFO format for OTTD new new signals
22:41:52  <BobingAbout> 1 that allows yellow and double yellow signal states
22:41:56  <RichK67> well, he would like to define them all, but if OTTD takes a newgrf lead, maybe TTDP will have to follow for once ;)
22:42:02  <KUDr> ok, but first explain features on some example
22:42:24  <BobingAbout> room for more pre-signal types, such as my priority signal
22:42:37  <BobingAbout> more than 1 set of signals, so they change graphics as time goes by
22:42:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i believe we must split signal graphics from signal semantics
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22:42:45  <KUDr> what that priority signal should do?
22:42:57  <RichK67> yeah - distant yellows :)
22:42:59  <BobingAbout> i also called it a "reverse combo pre-signal"
22:43:03  <KUDr> Eddi|zuHause: agree
22:43:13  <Sacro> RichK67: i want distant yellows, would be amazing with realistic braking
22:43:19  <RichK67> yeah
22:43:21  <BobingAbout> does the same thing as a priority block, except you just change signal type instead
22:43:32  <Sacro> put yellow too close, then your train doesnt stand a chance of stopping in time
22:43:57  <RichK67> hmm... sacro - that will never get past the devs
22:44:09  <Sacro> RichK67: not even the MiniIN dev?
22:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> the other way round, put signal too close creates speed limit on the track
22:44:27  <RichK67> it will generate too many "my trains are always crashing" support emails
22:44:37  <KUDr> BobingAbout: please explain me what do you want to achieve and how - i am really dumb guy
22:44:44  <Sacro> RichK67: well have an "enable realistic braking distances" option
22:45:01  <RichK67> i will check with the MiniIN dev... nope, he's asleep ;)
22:45:11  <Sacro> its like people clicking on the "force train to jump signal" button, or adjusting a PbS block with trains using it
22:45:20  <Eddi|zuHause> that should really be a difficulty option!
22:45:32  <Eddi|zuHause> along with wagonspeedlimits
22:45:35  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: realistic braking?
22:45:36  <BobingAbout> 1, allow yellow signals though a GRF command, instead of a costom bunch of graphics with no real NewGRF function
22:45:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
22:46:04  <Sacro> ive been thinking about it, but i dont know much about the physics
22:46:06  <BobingAbout> 2, allow for more signal types, such as twice as many pre-signals, if you can come up with them
22:46:34  <BobingAbout> 3, allow construction of "mainline" and "Branchline" signals, instead of just global set
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22:48:04  <KUDr> BobingAbout: this all is second step - first i need to know what signal behavior we are talking about
22:48:15  <BobingAbout> 4, allow timeline spacific signals, so signals constructed after a certain date use a different graphic, 1 example of this is the 3 lights pole for red yellow and green become a singal light that can display all 3 colours though use of multicolour LED technology
22:48:35  <BobingAbout> signal behavior
22:48:38  <Eddi|zuHause> so you need a) a more flexible way of describing signal behaviour, and b) a unified way of loading graphics for each signal type/state
22:48:41  <RichK67> yeah - i think a "branchline" signal is more useful than  a priority signal... its a lower priority entry rather than the strange way of placing the priority signals
22:48:46  <BobingAbout> first there is the yellow signals
22:49:18  <BobingAbout> yer, i agree with richk actually, the priority signal idea came first though
22:49:46  <Eddi|zuHause> while a) needs a complete rewrite of the signal code, b) should be rather trivial
22:49:48  <hylje> why the fucking disasters strike the same fucking place all the fucking time, fuck
22:49:56  <KUDr> BobingAbout: so what is "priority signal" behavior?
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22:51:07  <BobingAbout> priority signal, the signal itself behaves as a regular signal, however there is a virtual combo signal in the oposite direction, that will pass a "red" signal to an entry signal in the same block, if no other green combo or exit signals are present
22:51:09  <Eddi|zuHause> and what i really think is, instead of creating more and more 'special case' signals, we should develop some kind of scripting language
22:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause> which could also be used for AI scripting and stuff
22:51:36  <Sacro> BobingAbout: you wouldnt need a prority signal with a yellow signal
22:51:48  <Sacro> the yellow signal would slow down the branch train
22:51:51  <RichK67> lol @ disasters... i was playing an airports only game... the ufos had no buses or traintracks to attack so did weird things like land on the sea to be attacked by XCom... :)
22:51:56  <KUDr> BobingAbout: the same you can do if you place combined signal - each side different - is it true?
22:52:09  <BobingAbout> depends ben, it is possable to get a mainline signal to do simular behavoiur
22:52:29  <Sacro> hmm, maybe scripting then
22:52:37  <BobingAbout> KUDr: yes, but this is designed to eliminate the need to the extra lane required
22:52:48  <KUDr> Sacro: forget about any special yellow signal
22:52:57  <Sacro> KUDr: what do you mean?
22:53:14  <KUDr> BobingAbout: but if i allow you it on the same line?
22:53:24  <KUDr> Sacro: later...
22:53:29  <Sacro> KUDr: okies :)
22:54:04  <KUDr> BobingAbout: imagine new signals - they can even be tile edge signals
22:54:06  <hylje> really.. this mine ive been servicing for 70 years has grown from 30 tons a month to *gasp* 700
22:54:10  <BobingAbout> have you looked at the priority signals thread on the forums? because that has a picture that can ecplain it better than words
22:54:29  <KUDr> BobingAbout: link?
22:54:58  <BobingAbout>
22:55:00  <KUDr> thanx
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22:56:05  <Bjarni> <-- hmm, gee, I wonder what happened after this XD
22:56:10  <BobingAbout> KUDr: clear things up?
22:56:25  <KUDr> yes, but it is hard to apply
22:56:30  <KUDr> on new signals
22:56:37  <KUDr> as they should be
22:56:49  <KUDr> they will always look forward
22:56:54  <Sacro> Bjarni: PMSL
22:57:03  <KUDr> try to forget about current behavior
22:57:16  <Sacro> KUDr: what about a signal callback?
22:57:16  <peter1138> Bjarni: gotta be a setup
22:57:26  <BobingAbout> thats why it requires some kind of "Virtual" signal
22:57:26  <Bjarni> not unlikely
22:57:30  <KUDr> imagine signals, that are driven by smart dispatcher - traffic manager
22:57:41  <Bjarni> but odds are that they didn't realised that until after that moment
22:58:26  <KUDr> Sacro, BobingAbout: #newsignals
22:58:29  <Bjarni> I image that they would have a talk about wanting to see other people
22:58:32  <RichK67> i would just like to see signals that default to red, and turn green when a train approaches
22:58:51  <hylje> scriptable and groupable signals kthx
22:58:51  <hylje> :b
22:58:55  <Sacro> i thought we already had #openttd.signals
22:59:02  <Bjarni> RichK67: like real life signals
22:59:02  <BobingAbout> crap, now i've got to figure out how to join another new channel...
22:59:22  <KUDr> BobingAbout: RichK67: #newsignals
22:59:26  <Sacro> hehe
22:59:28  <Sacro> n00bs
23:02:28  <RichK67> sorry - not right now.. bath and bed :)
23:02:32  <RichK67> gn
23:02:43  <KUDr> gn
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23:03:01  <KUDr> maybe
23:03:12  <KUDr> oops
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23:18:22  <trogdorx> im having problems compiling on linux
23:18:45  <trogdorx> fedora core 2 that is
23:19:19  <trogdorx> getting 2 errors, i'll paste em in a sec
23:20:17  <trogdorx> ===> Linking openttd
23:20:18  <trogdorx> /usr/lib/ undefined reference to `__fprintf_chk@GLIBC_2.3.4'
23:20:18  <trogdorx> /usr/lib/ undefined reference to `__snprintf_chk@GLIBC_2.3.4'
23:20:38  <trogdorx> those are the two errors im getting
23:20:39  <trogdorx> anyone?
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23:29:17  <BobingAbout> i don't have a clue about linux, but, it could be empty because its like 00:30 in the morning?
23:29:33  <KUDr> 1:30 here
23:29:47  <KUDr> gn all
23:30:08  <BobingAbout> night
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23:30:15  <hylje> trogdorx: looks like libsdl is not correctly linked to glibc
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23:33:28  <Sacro> trogdorx: zlib?
23:33:38  <trogdorx> zlib?
23:33:42  <trogdorx> im reinstalling sdl
23:34:27  <Sacro> i saw that message ealier and someone mentioned they hadnt got zlib
23:34:31  <Sacro> though that could have been you...
23:34:43  <trogdorx> yea
23:34:57  <hylje> gentoo has a nice tool to rebuild library dependencies
23:35:05  <trogdorx> yea im running fedora core
23:35:16  <Sacro> 2? isnt 6 almost out
23:35:20  <trogdorx> yea
23:35:26  <hylje> yes so i dont think you could use it
23:35:26  <Sacro> i downloaded 5 the other day
23:35:35  <trogdorx> Is this ok [y/N]: y
23:35:35  <trogdorx> Exiting on user command.
23:35:36  <trogdorx> ...
23:35:40  <trogdorx> fuck you too?
23:35:48  <Sacro> trogdorx: eh?
23:36:01  <trogdorx> installing with yum :\
23:36:06  <Sacro> hmm
23:37:27  <trogdorx> oh, now its installing
23:37:29  <trogdorx> finally
23:37:56  <trogdorx> if i could somehow get my dsp to update it without a fresh install
23:38:25  <trogdorx> is dsp even a valid acronym for dedicated server provider?
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23:40:06  <Sacro> not sure
23:42:42  <trogdorx> uhm
23:42:44  <trogdorx> after i compile
23:42:48  <trogdorx> do i end up with one file?
23:42:51  <trogdorx> :S
23:43:02  <trogdorx> i managed to compile it but it's compiled in the same folder as the source
23:43:09  <trogdorx> and i have no idea what files i can move out
23:43:35  <trogdorx> oh god im so confused
23:43:52  <glx> make clean removes unneeded files
23:44:25  <trogdorx> the hell it does! *cry*
23:44:26  <Sacro> glx: including binaries?
23:44:35  <Sacro> trogdorx: make install
23:44:41  <trogdorx> thanks
23:44:47  <trogdorx> that removed openttd
23:44:58  <glx> trogdorx: sorry
23:45:05  <trogdorx> make install
23:45:08  <trogdorx> what does make install do?
23:45:16  <trogdorx> remove the source files?
23:45:36  <glx> make install copy binary in the install_dir
23:45:41  <Sacro> it moves the libraries and binaries to a better place
23:45:45  <trogdorx> sweet :)
23:45:54  <trogdorx> install dir?...
23:46:08  <trogdorx> :(
23:46:11  <glx> it's defined in Makefile I think
23:46:16  <trogdorx> ah ok
23:46:25  <trogdorx> are my questions dumb?..
23:46:38  <trogdorx> Makefile:905: *** make install is highly experimental at his state and not tested very much - use at your own risk - to use run \"make install INSTALL:=1\" - make sure Makefile.config is set correctly up - run \"make upgradeconf\". Stop.
23:46:42  <trogdorx> It told me to stop.
23:47:49  <glx> no it stopped
23:47:58  <trogdorx> Oh, well i stopped to.
23:48:11  <trogdorx> uhm, would it be safe just to remove all the .o, .c, .h files?
23:48:30  <glx> yes no problem with rm *.o *.c *.h
23:48:35  <trogdorx> ugh, so many files
23:49:07  <trogdorx> # paths for make install
23:49:08  <trogdorx> # disabled as they would break it for some (many?) people if they were default
23:49:11  <trogdorx> #PREFIX:=/usr/local
23:49:12  <trogdorx> #DATA_DIR:=share/games/openttd
23:49:14  <trogdorx> #BINARY_DIR:=games
23:49:17  <trogdorx> oops
23:49:46  <trogdorx> but yea, basically its disabled
23:50:12  <glx> Sacro: you know that better than me I think
23:50:18  <trogdorx> oh
23:50:23  <trogdorx> I CAN ACTUALLY DEFINE A TARGET
23:50:37  <Sacro> ahh, this is actually openttd, not sdl
23:50:37  <glx> yes cross-compilation is possible
23:50:40  <Sacro> lol
23:51:05  <trogdorx> now, how do i set a target?
23:51:06  <Sacro> i have a seperate folder, and into it i place "openttd", "lang/english.lng" and the "data/"
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23:57:33  <Sacro> trogdorx: figured it?
23:57:53  <trogdorx> nope
23:57:59  <trogdorx>
23:58:01  <trogdorx> Compile OpenTTD with:
23:58:01  <trogdorx> $ make
23:58:09  <trogdorx> yea that helps
23:58:17  <Sacro> hmm
23:58:29  <Sacro> GNOME seems to be using gVIM instead of gedit
23:58:31  <trogdorx> alternatively i could just leave it as is
23:58:40  <trogdorx> but that's a bitch really :\
23:58:56  <Sacro> just move it yourself
23:59:29  <trogdorx> but
23:59:32  <trogdorx> there are several files
23:59:37  <trogdorx> i dont know which ones to move
23:59:54  <trogdorx> i edited makefile.config now

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