Log for #openttd on 12th July 2006:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:07  <kbrooks> what are electrified rails?
00:00:27  <hylje> rails with electrified wires overhead
00:00:28  <ln-> hylje: yes. i.e. it converts the conv to elrail if necessary
00:00:47  <ln-> for that one tile.
00:01:08  <hylje> should be useful
00:02:18  <RichK67> final draft.... comments... ???
00:03:49  <Frostregen> the green button is not convenient, but good
00:04:13  <RichK67> i thought "make it big and easy to hit"
00:04:19  <Frostregen> yup
00:04:31  <ln-> how many clicks are needed to set the date to e.g. year 2000?
00:04:47  <RichK67> click and hold works
00:06:41  <kbrooks> hylje: are electrified rails faster
00:07:16  <ln-> i thought rails keep still on the ground.
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00:07:52  <RichK67> some electric trains are, but generally they are faster and more powerful, with a lower running cost
00:09:13  <Belugas_Gone> hello
00:09:24  <Belugas_Gone> nice work RichK67
00:09:39  <Belugas_Gone> suggestion :
00:10:00  <Belugas_Gone> start date : a line for itself
00:10:11  <Belugas_Gone> that would give breathing room
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00:10:58  <Belugas_Gone> then, randomize will be aligned with generate and png button
00:12:12  <kbrooks> RichK67: why lower running cost? wheres the logic
00:12:43  <CIA-3> richk * r5484 /branches/TGP/ (lang/english.txt tgp_gui.c):
00:12:43  <CIA-3> [TGP]: New GUI. Reorganised many elements. Added start date and snow line height. SLH is disabled for non-arctic terrains.
00:12:43  <CIA-3> Ugly hack in english.txt: I needed a drop down with numbers 2 to 13. Had to add each as a string to english.txt. Need a better way to get a drop down with a number range.
00:13:17  <Belugas_Gone> random seed should be enlarged to match terrain type and lower
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00:15:05  <Belugas_Gone> right align towns and industries with right terrain type, random seed etc right border
00:15:29  <RichK67> that will crunch into snow line
00:16:09  <RichK67> tell you what... all the devs can fight over the gui, and whoever gets the last commit before it goes trunk, gets their choice ;)(
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00:16:58  <RichK67> gui is a pig... ive tried to get something that looks aesthetically balanced... your suggestions will end up as one (unbalanced) large left column :(
00:17:37  <RichK67> and im tired... so sorry if i sound cranky
00:20:31  <RichK67> i wanted randomise to visually associate with the blue entry value... if i put it in the same column as load PNG & Generate, it will associate down, not left
00:20:55  <Belugas_Gone> it's ok, i'm working something out...
00:21:14  <ln-> RichK67: does the "Use PNG Heightmap" open some kind of new dialog?
00:21:29  <RichK67> yes, its a simple load dialog
00:22:15  <RichK67> for loading a PNG heightmap - ive included 5 - usa, w europe, san francisco, africa, meditteranean
00:22:17  <ln-> then you should probably add "..." to the end, which usually means that pressing a button doesn't perform the action instantaneously, but opens another dialog.
00:22:30  <ln-> "Use PNG Heightmap..."
00:22:54  <RichK67> it will make the string too long for the box again ... ;)
00:23:07  <RichK67> but yes, i generally agree
00:24:05  <RichK67> the load png is really cool - you can play the same terrain with different random towns / climates :)
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00:26:12  <RichK67> ln: the norm in OTTD is load dialogs dont have ... on their buttons
00:31:41  <ln-> i see
00:31:57  <RichK67> (but i had to check ... )
00:33:13  <Belugas_Gone> RichK67 :
00:33:20  <Belugas_Gone> that is what i mean...
00:33:35  <Belugas_Gone> not completely happy with it,
00:33:44  <Belugas_Gone> but at least, it is a bit more...
00:33:46  <Belugas_Gone> hem
00:33:51  <Belugas_Gone> balanced
00:33:59  <RichK67> big problem is other languages
00:34:16  <Belugas_Gone> not completely happy with it, did i said ;)
00:35:03  <Belugas_Gone> but you see now what i meant
00:35:12  <RichK67> the strings can get very long... eg. Taille de la carte  for "Map Size"
00:35:25  <RichK67> yeah, gui is a pig
00:35:41  <Belugas_Gone> well... the overall window has to be enlarged anyway
00:35:55  <RichK67> yeah, that will probably have to be the solution
00:35:59  <RichK67> :(
00:36:48  <Belugas_Gone> i removed the no. for industries and towns beasue it is quite evident that is what we're dealing with
00:37:06  <RichK67> as i said - personally i feel that the randomise button is now associated with the ones below it, not the actual number
00:39:38  <RichK67> ok - time for bed... if you have further thoughts/sketches, PM me
00:39:57  <Belugas_Gone> i will
00:40:02  <Belugas_Gone> night'
00:40:12  <RichK67> imo, TGP should now be reviewed... we can clean the gui as part of the review
00:40:26  <Belugas_Gone> dev mail would be fine ;)
00:40:40  <RichK67> ok
00:40:42  <RichK67> gn
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00:44:05  <ln-> Celestar: this little patch fixes the great annoyance of connecting regular and elrail tracks together. works on network, too.
00:44:54  <vrak> are there any gotchas or things i need to be aware of when using replace (for train engines in this case) ?
00:45:15  <vrak> (r5476 miniIN)
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00:54:20  <ammler> someone here, who has access to the openttdcoop server?
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00:55:36  <Nickman87> hi all, someone here with acces to coop sandbox server?
00:55:36  <glx> ammler: try #openttdcoop
00:55:44  <Nickman87> :D
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00:58:20  <mikk36> heh... found ya :D
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01:07:56  <ammler> mikk36: you mean us?
01:08:18  <mikk36> you as openttd people.. hte irc channel etc :D
01:08:23  <mikk36> the*
01:08:45  <glx> it's not that hard to find #openttd
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01:26:56  <mikk36> true, but it's the first time i tried though :D
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01:41:59  <roboman> gmorning
01:42:24  <mikk36> yah, morning... 04:42 :D
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01:42:35  <ems> hello
01:42:47  <ems> what year is monorail in nightly?
01:43:02  <glx> same as 0.4.7
01:43:15  <glx> depends of newgrfs too
01:43:36  <ems> glx: which is?
01:43:52  <glx> 2001 or so
01:44:02  <glx> if I remember well
01:44:08  <ems> oh okay
01:44:14  <ems> shit 25 more years
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01:44:22  <mikk36> lol
01:44:29  <mikk36> and maglev in 2021 or so
01:44:43  <mikk36> last time i skipped monorail totally :)
01:45:00  <mikk36> too painful to tranfer from one type to other if u have all railroads connected :D
01:45:41  <mikk36> but still nice to earn 350 million buks in year on 256x256 map when competeing with brother :D
01:45:46  <mikk36> bucks*
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01:46:21  <mikk36> damn it was already slow to scroll over map with my laptop :D
01:46:25  <mikk36> celeronM 1.4
01:47:28  <mikk36> it's like 15 cities with 10k+ people
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06:55:28  <Celestar> yes?
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10:01:25  <TL|Away> pompiedom
10:01:38  <RichK67_wrk> pompiedo
10:01:56  <peter1138> tumtetum
10:02:01  <Rens2Sea> dingding :O
10:02:09  <TL|Away> THEY ARE ALIVE!
10:02:14  <peter1138> shit
10:02:17  <peter1138> They Live!
10:02:18  <TL|Away> MWhaahhahahaha
10:02:27  <TL|Away> :p
10:02:27  <peter1138> dodgy film, hehe
10:02:27  <Rens2Sea> O_O
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10:05:08  <Artea_> unbelieve
10:05:22  <Artea_> 4 days with +q "ban"
10:05:35  <[Shaman]> wtf you do?
10:05:37  <Artea_> i bet the record of this channel
10:05:48  <Artea_> talk to much
10:05:54  <Artea_> with auto-away on
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10:06:33  <guru3> hahaha
10:06:35  <guru3> +q lol
10:07:00  <Artea_> TrueLight likes me
10:07:09  <Artea_> so he put +q
10:07:31  <guru3> +q generally isn't for liking
10:07:31  <ln-> wth is +q?
10:07:38  <guru3> +q is so that you can't talk
10:07:42  <guru3> at least, in irc modes it is
10:07:59  <ln-> is it something freenode-specific?
10:08:11  <guru3> not that i know if
10:09:19  <RichK67_wrk> odd.. you seemed very capable of talking here yesterday... about things you clearly know nothing about (ie.OTTD gui)
10:09:25  <TrueLight> Artea_: you do know you are now asking to get a +q on this name too, don't you?
10:09:28  <ln-> hmm. on ircnet the same thing can be achieved by banning someone (but not kicking)
10:09:42  <TrueLight> I mean, the +q will stay there till you either said you disabled the autoaway script ,or leave all together
10:09:56  <Artea_> TrueLight: but i tell u
10:10:08  <TrueLight> Artea_: but you tell me what?
10:10:13  <Artea_> my auto-away active in 120 min in idle
10:10:22  <Artea_> and everytime someone call me
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10:10:29  <Artea_> eXtreme send the msg
10:10:36  <TrueLight> so I tell you again, if I ever see the script again, I ban your for ever
10:10:43  <Artea_> i try it doing with quiet-away
10:10:46  * guru3 votes TrueLight for president
10:10:48  <Artea_> but... +q pwnz me
10:11:00  <Artea_> i take off the auto-away
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10:11:08  <Zavior> Why is it so hard to just type /nick blablaaway
10:11:09  <TrueLight> because I already see it happen that we all have an auto-away script.. would be fun talking to everyone :s
10:11:15  <Zavior> Or better yet, just use the /away command
10:11:20  <guru3> ding ding ding
10:11:23  <guru3> we have a winner Zavior
10:11:24  <TrueLight> I agree with Zavior :)
10:11:37  <TrueLight> IRC has things for that, and it is called /away yes :)
10:11:42  <ln-> i disagree with Zavior
10:11:44  <Artea_> Zavior: lol ? auto-away... ?
10:11:57  <roboman> what happened with the talk of buying and it redirecting to the openttd homepage
10:12:07  <TrueLight> roboman: feel free
10:12:10  <guru3> it you're gone for two fucking hours before away turns on
10:12:11  <ln-> using away-nicks is almost as silly as public auto-away messages
10:12:14  <guru3> it's pretty pointless
10:12:16  <TrueLight> I have the DNS and other facilities for it :)
10:12:30  <TrueLight> ln-: it is the better option
10:12:40  <TrueLight> ln-: nick names don't talk on their own ;)
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10:12:58  <TrueLight> 20 people with Away in their name doesn't make the channel more alive :)
10:13:09  <TrueLight> 20 people with Artea_ his 'script' makes the channel pretty alive.... in a pretty wrong way :p
10:13:25  <tank_> Zavior: why should he change his nick? that's spam
10:13:38  <Artea_> TrueLight: try use eXtreme
10:13:40  <tank_> Zavior: he just would have to type "/away reason". everyone can read in the whois if he is there or not
10:13:50  <tank_> Zavior: without any spam for the channel
10:13:52  <Zavior> tank_, did you read what I just said..?
10:13:53  <TrueLight> Artea_: if it comes with those stupid scripts I seemly can't disable, I refuse
10:13:55  <RichK67_wrk> ln-: at least with an away nick, you dont get impatient people pinging you, and then getting bitchy that you havent replied - when ive got the window minimised/hidden so i can get on with work.
10:14:13  <Zavior> [13:11:10] [Zavior]: Or better yet, just use the /away command
10:14:15  <tank_> Zavior: just one line:) but nickchanging is no alternative:)
10:14:17  <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: I know the problem :)
10:14:19  <Artea_> TrueLight: i don't think the auto-away stupid... but ok
10:14:32  <Artea_> TrueLight: i can disable
10:14:34  <guru3> haha... just noticed something
10:14:41  <TrueLight> Artea_: your opinion and you are free to have it. Just we don't allow it in here :)
10:14:44  <Artea_> it's disable
10:14:45  <guru3> 12:20:33 < TrueLight> 20 people with Artea_ his 'script' makes the channel pretty alive.... in a pretty wrong way :p
10:14:49  <guru3> that's what it's just done :P
10:14:53  <Artea_> since i got +q :/
10:14:53  <guru3> with people arguing over it
10:15:01  <TrueLight> guru3: true ;)
10:15:20  <RichK67_wrk> true - channel was dead this morning until artea spread his presence ;)
10:15:30  <TrueLight> So he is at least good for something
10:15:45  <Sacro> hellooooooo everybody
10:15:49  <TrueLight> hi Sacro
10:15:59  <TrueLight> Sacro is also always a person to make this channel more alive ;)
10:16:17  <Sacro> ooh yes :) and i can kill it quite effectivly too
10:16:25  <Artea_> i'm God of Talk
10:16:26  <Artea_> LOL
10:16:33  <TrueLight> hehe @ Sacro :)
10:16:47  <Sacro> i need to find a CentOS 4.3 compatible webcam... :(
10:16:56  <TrueLight> haha :)
10:16:58  <TrueLight> good luck ;)
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10:17:28  <Artea_> Sacro: do u search it @ SourceForge ?
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10:18:08  <Sacro> Artea_: i dont hold much hope, our office keeps having money stolen, and the IP cam seems to get die
10:18:33  <Artea_> :/
10:18:43  <guru3> "oops"
10:19:06  <TrueLight> just get a VCR camera
10:19:09  <TrueLight> rarely fails :p
10:19:14  <Artea_> void ShowOperatingProfitGraph(void);
10:19:15  <Artea_> void ShowIncomeGraph(void);
10:19:26  <Artea_> this is good var to MySQL acess
10:19:35  <Artea_> TrueLight: sorry... i can't resist
10:20:03  <Artea_> * good vars * access *
10:20:15  <TrueLight> whhhhhhhiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeee, wine 0.9.17 wants to compile :) (0.9.14 failed, 0.9.16 failed, it seems like they are making it a default ;))
10:20:34  <guru3> wine :D
10:20:37  <Artea_> hehe
10:20:53  <Artea_> wine pwn
10:20:53  <ln-> who is in charge for the next release?
10:21:14  <Sacro> TrueLight: check out ies4linux :P
10:21:39  <TrueLight> Sacro: no tnx, I am glad I finally got ride of that
10:22:09  <Sacro> TrueLight: i need ie6 for website checking, and router setting
10:22:21  <guru3> evil ie
10:22:30  <TrueLight> Lol! Their site is funny
10:22:34  <TrueLight> o clicks needed. No boring setup processes. No Wine complications. <- read the last part
10:22:43  <TrueLight> Install instructions:
10:22:44  <TrueLight> First, get Wine and cabextract.
10:22:50  <Artea_> TrueLight: sorry i talk all the time about MySQL... but since i got a manual "Writing MySQL programs Using C"
10:23:08  <Artea_> i excited with try coding something to OTTD...
10:23:24  <Sacro> Artea_: is it a book or a pdf?
10:23:32  <TrueLight> Sacro: it can indeed be useful to test websites, but still :p
10:23:32  <RichK67_wrk> artea: fine, why not go program something with it, rather than just talk about it :)
10:23:33  <Artea_> pdf e-book
10:23:57  <Sacro> TrueLight: we have routers at work that dont work with firefox or opera
10:24:10  <TrueLight> Sacro: I just sell those routers :p
10:24:13  <Artea_> RichK67_wrk: i hate programming... lolz.. but believe, i going try only for OTTD
10:24:16  <Sacro> hmm, i dont have konqueror, is there another gnome browser thta uses the same rendering engine?
10:24:21  <TrueLight> I use Dell switches (bad choice, but they were the cheapest with 1 GBit support)
10:24:27  <TrueLight> and you cna't access them with FireFox either :p
10:25:05  <Sacro> ours are a mixture of cheap makes, but they do the job
10:26:04  <TrueLight> Wine is getting better and better by the day
10:26:06  <Artea_> who talk yesterday about auto-resize window code ?
10:26:24  <Artea_> TrueLight: it's because has good coders
10:26:29  <RichK67_wrk> Truelight, Sacro: did you catch the latest TGP screen :)
10:26:47  <Artea_> Sacro: want the ebook ?
10:26:59  <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: I still truely wonder about that Random Seed
10:27:01  <Sacro> Artea_: wouldnt say no ;)
10:27:05  <TrueLight> normal users wouldn't give a shit
10:27:07  <ln-> is it freely distributable?
10:27:11  <TrueLight> so maybe an Advanced dialog
10:27:22  <Sacro> RichK67_wrk: VERY NICE :)
10:27:48  <Artea_> Sacro: want or not ? (just a great question...)
10:28:01  <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: For the rest, the Use PNG Heigthmap is off by 2 to 4 pixels (yeah, I always complain about pixels :p). The height that is
10:28:02  <Sacro> Artea_: yep
10:28:09  <RichK67_wrk> TL: advanced dialog planned for v2...
10:28:41  *** schalala [] has joined #openttd
10:28:43  <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: or maybe a button that you can press that the window extends in a bigger window with more options :)
10:28:51  *** schalala [] has left #openttd []
10:28:54  <TrueLight> But okay, it looks nice :)
10:29:04  <ln-> Artea_: using SQLite may be a better idea for a database that should need no configuration.
10:29:31  <TrueLight> Sacro: it doesn't install IE 4 or IE 3? :(
10:30:07  <RichK67_wrk> the base of the PNG button is lined up with the top of the sea level button... being blue it stands out more, and it makes it look narrower than it is! (the random seed panel is the same height as the randomise button, but it looks thinner)
10:30:07  <Artea_> ln-: and manuals with info about it ? do u have it ?
10:30:14  <Sacro> TrueLight: no, i wish it did, i like the ooooold browsers
10:30:41  <peter1138>
10:30:48  <TrueLight> RichK67_wrk: serious? Because the Random Button looks good, but the PNG button looks really bad :p
10:30:51  <Sacro> i use MySQL
10:30:53  <peter1138> that was really hard to find... first hit on google...
10:31:07  <Artea_> ok
10:31:10  <TrueLight> hehe @ peter1138, 1-0 :)
10:31:10  <Sacro> peter1138: yeah, but it saves us time if you find the link!
10:31:13  <Artea_> peter pwned me :/
10:31:23  <peter1138> btw
10:31:29  <RichK67_wrk> yup, all buttons are 11 high, except for generate
10:31:31  <peter1138> nothing wrong with auto-away
10:31:35  <peter1138> it's the *message* that's the problem
10:31:46  <Artea_> ...
10:31:55  <TrueLight> I agree with peter1138 yes
10:32:15  <Artea_> the first message or second+ message ?
10:32:20  <peter1138> any
10:32:20  <TrueLight> Sacro: ies4linux is nice, I have to give you that ;) First time I see a fully automated install script :)
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10:32:36  <Sacro> TrueLight: i was impressed
10:32:43  <TrueLight> Even Flash 9
10:32:46  <peter1138> whoops
10:32:48  <Skiddles^> RAWRARGH
10:32:53  <Artea_> Sacro: do u not want the ebook ?
10:32:53  <peter1138> 11:30 and i've already eaten most of my lunch
10:32:58  <Celestar> yawn
10:33:05  <Sacro> Artea_: yes i do :P
10:33:07  <Skiddles^> *sneeeze*
10:33:08  <Artea_> lol
10:33:15  <Artea_> accept the dcc ;)
10:33:24  <TrueLight> poor peter1138, here, you can have my lunch
10:33:31  <Sacro> Artea_: dont see one
10:33:39  <Zavior> Still haven't had breakfast :<
10:33:54  <Artea_> it's because u are ignoring the dcc files
10:34:43  <Sacro> are you registered?
10:35:09  <TrueLight> Sacro: it emulates 'hints' in IE6 wrong :p
10:35:18  <TrueLight> Sacro: he isn't
10:35:35  <Sacro> so its not my end then...
10:35:41  <Sacro> hints?
10:35:45  <Artea_> Sacro:
10:35:47  <TrueLight> register :p
10:36:36  <Artea_> i have 3 ebooks to read
10:36:46  <Artea_> all about C
10:37:00  <Artea_> it's is miracle of OTTD
10:37:21  <Artea_> learning C Programming all because of a g00d game :D
10:37:36  <TrueLight> hanging myself all because of one user.....
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10:37:58  <Artea_> TrueLight: it's only because i'm Portuguese
10:38:00  <Artea_> LOLOL
10:38:18  <RichK67_wrk> go on then... dive on in ;)
10:38:35  <Artea_> i know Figo
10:38:52  <Artea_> the one of the great players of Footbal
10:38:57  <Artea_> * Football
10:39:00  <Artea_> hahaha
10:39:29  <RichK67_wrk> and suffers from a stronger gravity field than most ;)
10:40:12  <scia> they are good cryers too
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10:40:47  <Artea_> lolz
10:41:55  <Artea_> wtf i just talking about... i hate football... i don't know why... i'm stupid...
10:42:12  <Artea_> Sacro: do u dl the ebook from ftp ?
10:43:21  <ln-> what does the release of 0.4.8 depend on?
10:44:21  <Artea_> ln-: bug fixed
10:44:33  <Artea_> some changes
10:44:47  <Artea_> add featurings
10:44:55  <Sacro> ln-: bugfixes from RC1
10:45:22  <Artea_> and maybe a *glup* Portuguese Town Names DB *glup*
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10:46:15  <peter1138> not in a bug fix
10:47:20  <ln-> i think this patch would be quite essential to merge before 0.4.8:
10:47:43  <ln-> ... or implement the same functionality some other way
10:47:47  <Sacro> ln-: if that does what i think it does...then yes
10:47:59  <peter1138> not really
10:48:03  <peter1138> 0.4.8 doesn't contain elrails...
10:48:16  <ln-> it doesn't?
10:48:18  <ln-> ...
10:48:21  <ln-> interesting
10:48:34  <peter1138> lol
10:48:47  <peter1138> there's already a compatiblerail function...
10:49:07  <Artea_> peter1138: pvt...
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11:05:39  <Artea_> [PT]Artea's Public Dedicated Server #2 - Up
11:06:31  <peter1138> i'm sure anyone interested will find it in the server list
11:08:21  <Artea_> lol
11:08:34  <Artea_> i only make a pub
11:08:35  <Artea_> :P
11:11:01  <Artea_> dedicated server don't have a 'Date' cmd/var ?
11:11:23  <Sacro> pub/
11:11:35  <Sacro> Artea_: ftp?
11:11:42  <Artea_> Sacro:
11:11:52  <scia> Artea_: is there beer?
11:12:05  <peter1138> beer?
11:12:07  <peter1138> mmm
11:12:08  <Sacro> stuff the beer, is there women?
11:12:09  <Artea_> scia: no... but has nice girls
11:13:44  <Sacro> Artea_: it wants a password...
11:14:04  <Artea_> anonymous
11:14:32  <Artea_>
11:15:18  <Sacro> the rar :P
11:15:23  <Artea_> no...
11:15:33  <Zavior> When is the serverlist filter patch going to be implemented?
11:15:45  <Artea_> ... ?!?
11:16:04  <Artea_> it's impossible the rar with passwor
11:16:08  <Artea_> * password
11:16:19  <Artea_> * having password
11:16:36  * Sacro tells wget to try again
11:17:12  <Zavior> Artea_, where is your server hosted?
11:17:18  <Artea_> my pc
11:17:32  <Sacro> hmm, worked that time
11:17:35  <Zavior> Oh, and where is your pc located?
11:17:38  <Sacro> ff being retarded most likely
11:17:43  <Artea_> Lagos, Portugal
11:17:43  <Sacro> Zavior: on his desk :P
11:19:28  <Artea_> Sacro: Zavior has connected to my...
11:19:36  <hylje> :o
11:19:37  <Artea_> ... server ;)
11:19:51  <Sacro> hylje: stop thinking dirty thoughts
11:19:59  <Zavior> Yes, it's the only server that I could find, that wasn't already at 2090 ;<
11:20:16  <Artea_> lolz
11:20:23  <Sacro> ooh, i can set up my MiniIN UKRS nightly today
11:20:39  <Artea_> tonight (GMT Timezone) i will put the #1up
11:21:08  <hylje> Sacro: :o
11:21:17  <Zavior> Serverspree!
11:21:43  <Artea_> maybe i going to make the #3 [Test Server]
11:21:55  <Artea_> with diff custom game
11:22:18  <Sacro> hmm, do i need a WM, or can i just shove firefox ~/display.swf into the .xinitrc
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11:22:39  <hylje> i dont think, the X default wm should do
11:22:46  <Artea_> Sacro: try /con/con
11:23:27  <Sacro> hylje: twm? maybe, its running GNOME at the moment, it doesnt need to though, only if theres someone using it
11:23:36  <hylje> yea
11:23:56  <Artea_> i have SUSE
11:24:01  <Sacro> Artea_: im sorry
11:24:10  <Artea_> but i think FC 5 better for pc server
11:24:22  <Sacro> im running CentOS 4.3
11:24:28  <Sacro> though i do like the looks of FC6
11:24:58  <Artea_> Alpha/Beta... ?
11:25:10  <Sacro> Gamma?
11:25:16  <Artea_> Version
11:25:24  <Sacro> oh, alpha currently
11:25:48  <Artea_> i will wait for FC7 or 8
11:25:49  <Artea_> ;)
11:26:03  <Sacro> heh, CentOS does me nicely
11:27:43  <Artea_> i did like SUSE for Server
11:27:51  <Artea_> * didn't
11:28:05  <Sacro> hmm
11:28:24  <Artea_> it's usefull for desktop linux pcs
11:28:35  <Artea_> not for "dedicated server"
11:28:45  *** mgla [n=mgla@wikipedia/mgla] has quit [Client Quit]
11:28:55  <Artea_> of course, it's my point about SUSE
11:29:15  <Artea_> i need a CAD Software for Linux
11:29:35  <Artea_> to put in my father's company
11:30:03  <Artea_> converting Windows Users to Linux Users
11:30:04  <Artea_> HAHA
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11:30:39  <Zavior> Artea_, are breakdowns on?
11:30:55  <Artea_> yes
11:31:00  <Zavior> ;-Y
11:31:16  <Artea_> wait a sec
11:31:24  <Zavior> Nah its fine
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11:34:39  <Artea_> Maximum no. of competitors (AI) = 0 Bots // Competitor start time = now
11:34:40  <Artea_> No. of towns = high // No. of industries = high // Maximum initial loan = 1M (1.000.000)
11:34:40  <Artea_> Initial interest rate = 3% Vehicle running costs = low // Construction speed of competitors = very low
11:34:41  <Artea_> Intelligence of competitors = low // Vehicle breakdowns = none // Subsidy multiplier = 1.5 x
11:34:42  <Artea_> Cost of construction = low // Terrain type = very low // Quantity of sea/lakes = very low
11:34:43  <Artea_> Economy = Fluctuating // Train reversing = At end of line, and at stations // Disasters = off
11:34:43  <Artea_> City council's attitude towards area restructuring = Hostile
11:34:55  <Artea_> this is #2 config
11:35:09  <Zavior> kk
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11:38:01  <mikk36> mornin' :)
11:39:08  <mikk36> err.. is my server the only one with one decal id ?
11:39:21  <mikk36> oters i see are all 4 decals
11:39:25  <mikk36> others*
11:40:00  <TrueLight> Artea_: use pastebin for such pieces of junk
11:40:26  <Artea_> TrueLight: soz... but Zavior ask me about Server Info...
11:40:38  <TrueLight> So? Use pastebin for that
11:40:49  <Artea_> ...
11:41:21  <TrueLight> for your information
11:41:32  <Artea_> my prob is no sleeping...
11:41:43  <Artea_> thats why i talk to much
11:41:45  <Artea_> :|
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11:42:32  <Artea_> it's time to sleep
11:42:40  <Artea_> cyaz to all [] **
11:43:08  <Artea_> Zavior: take care of my *sweet* server
11:43:10  <mikk36> TrueLight, is there also a page on wiki that describes how to compile stuff under windows ?
11:43:17  <TrueLight> mikk36: tons of pages
11:43:35  <mikk36> yesterday i found a link oon the forum to "how to compile under linux", but i can't even find that any more
11:43:52  <TrueLight> if I can find it within 4 clicks
11:43:54  <TrueLight> what do you give me?
11:43:58  <hylje> ./configure, make, run
11:44:08  <TrueLight> hylje: he said windows, so that is a no can do :p
11:44:19  <TrueLight> mikk36: let's see...
11:44:21  <TrueLight>
11:44:24  <TrueLight> ah, Devleopment
11:44:26  <TrueLight> that sounds good
11:44:27  <TrueLight> click
11:44:27  <mikk36> am there already
11:44:31  <TrueLight> Coding tools
11:44:34  <TrueLight> yeah, should be nice
11:44:35  <TrueLight> Windows
11:44:38  <TrueLight> ah, that is what you need
11:44:39  <TrueLight> click
11:44:52  <TrueLight> So... 6 possible ways to compiling OpenTTD on Windows
11:44:56  <TrueLight> now that was SO HARD
11:45:05  <TrueLight> I dunno if I can do that again :p
11:45:10  <mikk36> uhm... yeah.. but there's no direct "how-to" ?
11:45:15  <TrueLight> mikk36: also, on the ofrums are tons of posts
11:45:23  <TrueLight> <- pretty direct
11:45:26  <mikk36> for last 3
11:45:34  <TrueLight> <- pretty direct
11:45:56  <TrueLight> even the cygwin is pretty direct
11:46:05  <TrueLight> and else, there are tons of TTForums posts
11:46:34  <Artea_> TrueLight: i will make a statue with your name :P
11:46:42  <Artea_> you are God of OTTD
11:46:44  <Artea_> :P
11:46:56  <TrueLight> Artea_: I think it now really is time for you to go to sleep
11:47:01  <Artea_> lol
11:47:09  <Artea_> i like you too ;)
11:47:12  <Artea_> lolol
11:47:43  <Artea_> i will
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11:48:20  * Artea_ off
11:48:24  <TrueLight> mikk36: found it?
11:48:30  <mikk36> it what ?
11:48:41  <TrueLight> [13:43:10] <mikk36> TrueLight, is there also a page on wiki that describes how to compile stuff under windows ?
11:48:44  <mikk36> i hoped there would be a bit easier way like in linux with gcc
11:48:55  <TrueLight> mikk36: mingw uses gcc
11:49:22  <TrueLight> after installing the basic tools, it is a simple ./configure && make && ./openttd
11:49:41  <mikk36> also have to ./configure ?
11:49:54  <Artea_> yes
11:50:01  <TrueLight> Artea_: this isn't sleeping
11:50:06  <mikk36> specially needed for win ?
11:50:06  <Artea_> if u dont, u can't configure ;)
11:50:16  <mikk36> Artea_, back to sleep
11:50:18  <Artea_> TrueLight: i resisting ;)
11:50:26  <Artea_> ok
11:50:27  <Artea_> i go
11:50:27  <TrueLight> mikk36: in theory you don't need to configure, but it is wise to do :)
11:50:46  <mikk36> uhm.. and what does it exactly do ?
11:50:50  <TrueLight> configure :p
11:50:56  <mikk36> conf what ?
11:51:00  <TrueLight> the application :)
11:51:01  <TrueLight> haha :)
11:51:09  <TrueLight> Read about basic principels of compiling on the web
11:51:17  <mikk36> *dang*
11:53:07  <TrueLight> mikk36: and even more if you know linux a bit, you should know configure :p
11:53:59  <Maedhros> if i wanted to make trains able to pick up cargo for as long as they're in a station when not on Full Load, where would be a good place to start looking?
11:54:10  <Maedhros> i've tried changing  if (v->current_order.flags & OF_FULL_LOAD  to if (!(v->current_order.flags & OF_UNLOAD) in train_cmd.c:2464
11:54:19  <Maedhros> it doesn't seem to have made any difference though...
11:55:21  <mikk36> Maedhros, the idea itself is already a bit bad.. take the fact that all loading takes a certain amount of time, it doesn't change with amount
11:55:55  <mikk36> now if u load smth into the train nad wait for some more it would start counting from the start again (the loading/unloading time)
11:55:58  <mikk36> right ?
11:56:23  <Maedhros> well, all i want is for it to carry on accepting cargo while it's in the station
11:56:29  *** ammler_ [] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.74 [Firefox]"]
11:56:40  <mikk36> and it stays in the station for what reason P?
11:56:43  <mikk36> -P
11:56:52  <Maedhros> otherwise you get trains sitting there partially filled while the station has things waiting, which just gets annoying ;)
11:56:58  <Maedhros> i see your point though
11:57:20  <mikk36> if it is already loading/unloading then it is busy getting things done to get lost
11:57:57  <mikk36> the full load does that though
11:58:04  <mikk36> it exits when it gets full
11:58:18  <mikk36> but then the unload/load timer has run already
11:58:40  <Maedhros> i don't want it to wait till it's full - it's mostly for passenger trains
11:58:46  <mikk36> i know
11:59:12  <mikk36> but there's the loading/unloading time that u'd have to remove and replace with something else
12:00:55  <mikk36>
12:02:09  <Maedhros> i just want to use the time while it claims to be loading to allow more passengers to get on, if they arrive after the train arrived :)
12:02:09  *** Sacro [n=ben@] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:02:21  <mikk36> yup
12:02:34  <TrueLight> Maedhros: they idea of loading/unloading, is that the amount of cargo that was accepted, is busy loading/unloading
12:02:41  <mikk36> that would be a reallife situation
12:03:03  <TrueLight> But in case of pax it might be more nice to see them slowly entering the train ;)
12:03:52  <mikk36> also would be nice to have a loading time relevant to the amount of cargo loaded/unloaded
12:04:03  <mikk36> right now it's the same for 1 passanger and for 200 passangers
12:04:13  <TrueLight> mikk36: it is? I thought that was changed...
12:04:16  <TrueLight> but indeed :p
12:04:24  <mikk36> well, in 0.4.7 it's so
12:04:27  <mikk36> as far as i've seen
12:04:33  <TrueLight> then it isn't changed :p
12:04:34  <mikk36> with new loading algorithm
12:05:06  <mikk36> damn... last candy :/
12:05:11  <mikk36> and i've also run out of coke
12:05:18  <mikk36> i'm doomed...
12:06:32  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
12:06:47  <Maedhros> ok, i suppose it makes sense the way it is, so i'll just leave it alone. thanks for the explanations :)
12:07:33  <mikk36> :)
12:07:59  <mikk36> when the loading time starts being relevant to the amount loaded then ur problem will disappear :)
12:08:14  <mikk36> cause it won't stay for that long in the station any more
12:08:23  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
12:09:16  <mikk36> uhm.. another question: why can't the good ol' ai work in mp ?
12:09:25  <TrueLight> mikk36: no coke?!!?! You are so doomed! :)
12:09:48  <TrueLight> mikk36: very simple: the design is bad :)
12:09:49  * Brianetta has a coffee
12:10:00  <mikk36> and why was new ai stopped ?
12:10:14  <TrueLight> mikk36: very simple: the design is bad :)
12:10:15  <Brianetta> same reason, I believe
12:10:17  <TrueLight> haha :)
12:10:18  <Brianetta> (:
12:10:39  <TrueLight> mikk36: I found it rather impossible to work myself through the code tapping into all kind of systems just to get the AI to work
12:10:40  <mikk36> looked at it's code today... night..... was pretty fun to read though :P
12:10:46  <TrueLight> 60% of the AI code is not AI related
12:11:22  <TrueLight> so, I made a plugin to OpenTTD called OpenTTD.GPMI, and made packages for it.. now you can make AIs via simple commands
12:11:33  <TrueLight> the commands are handled by a package that knows how to tap into the OpenTTD system
12:11:39  <Brianetta> How simple?
12:11:44  <TrueLight> But... someone removed that code from the main trunk
12:11:44  *** CrazyGoogle [] has quit ["Ciao"]
12:11:48  <mikk36> and it's possible to have them in mp ?
12:11:51  <TrueLight> and that was enough for me to no longer support it
12:11:59  <TrueLight> yes, mikk36, that was one of the main targets
12:12:00  <Brianetta> a =;
12:12:01  <TrueLight> Brianetta: very simple
12:12:05  <Brianetta>;
12:12:07  <TrueLight> let me browse some code
12:12:27  <TrueLight>
12:12:33  <TrueLight> a PHP based AI that makes local bus routes
12:12:41  <TrueLight> this is an old version btw, you can do it in less lines now
12:13:29  <Brianetta> Should implement it in LISP
12:13:32  <Brianetta> or..... Tcl!
12:13:35  <TrueLight> 			$info = ttai_pfr_CreateInfo();
12:13:35  <TrueLight> 			$pf = ttai_pfr_Initialize($info);
12:13:35  <TrueLight> 			ttai_pfr_AddStartList($pf, $list_begin);
12:13:35  <TrueLight> 			ttai_pfr_AddEndList($pf, $list_end);
12:13:35  <TrueLight> 			$res = ttai_pfr_Start($pf);
12:13:37  <hylje> perl
12:13:38  <TrueLight> That scans for a route
12:13:39  <hylje> :>
12:13:40  <TrueLight> Brianetta: both done
12:13:44  <TrueLight> hylje: done too
12:13:46  <Brianetta> sweet (:
12:13:52  <Brianetta> LISP is designed for AI work
12:13:54  <hylje> python ?
12:13:54  <TrueLight> it supports a whole bunch of scripts
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12:13:58  <TrueLight> python too
12:14:36  <TrueLight> the list is: cli (bash / awk), ghli (pascal), lua, perl, php (very nasty to install), python, ruby, stutter (lisp) and TCL
12:14:39  <Brianetta> Is that C++ or object oriented PHP?
12:14:49  <Brianetta> Ah, PHP
12:14:49  <TrueLight> PHP is nasty to install because getting the embed is hard
12:15:05  <TrueLight> and of course C and C++ is possible too
12:15:12  <TrueLight> or in fact anything that can make shared libraries
12:15:41  <Brianetta> Tcl's nice for embedded scripting
12:15:47  <Brianetta> The original ircII client used it
12:15:55  <TrueLight> lua is the best
12:16:00  <TrueLight> the smallest, the cleanest
12:16:00  <Brianetta> and I wrote ircII scripts without realising that I'd learnt Tcl (:
12:16:05  <TrueLight> and cleans up ALL memory if you close it
12:16:11  <TrueLight> (TCL leaks around 1M for each run)
12:16:28  <Brianetta> I don't think all Tcls leak
12:16:34  <TrueLight> All TCLs leak :)
12:16:45  <TrueLight> believe me, did a lot of testing on it :)
12:16:51  <TrueLight> very bad cleanup routine
12:16:59  <Brianetta> Depends who wrote it, surely?
12:17:09  <TrueLight> no, the embed TCL part
12:17:15  <TrueLight> nothing to do with who wrote it
12:17:22  <TrueLight> just a script that prints: hello
12:17:24  <TrueLight> leaks 730k
12:17:30  <Brianetta> Which Tcl?
12:17:37  <TrueLight> libtcl of course
12:17:40  <Brianetta> There are more than one, not all derrived from common base
12:17:47  <TrueLight> ah, you mean it like that
12:17:51  <Brianetta> yes
12:17:54  <Brianetta> use a better one (:
12:17:55  <TrueLight> we used the common libtcl
12:18:03  <TrueLight> as to be found in all distros
12:18:10  <TrueLight> besides lua, they all leak
12:18:15  <TrueLight> ruby can't handle multiple instances
12:18:21  <TrueLight> They all have problems :)
12:18:28  <TrueLight> besides lua :)
12:18:41  <TrueLight> for Python I needed to make an ugly hack to get the current function name in C :p
12:18:43  <TrueLight> nasty shit :p
12:21:07  <Brianetta> is a nice Tcl
12:21:14  <peter1138> hi
12:21:36  <Brianetta> Not free, though
12:21:40  <Brianetta> unless you mean, "as in beer"
12:24:16  <TrueLight> hehe
12:25:12  <Sacro> yeugh, got to go to work...
12:25:21  <Sacro> be back on irc in 30 mins when i get there :P
12:25:23  *** Sacro [n=ben@] has quit ["Leaving"]
12:26:12  <Brianetta> Sacro can ge to work more quickly than I can
12:26:19  <Brianetta> I used to be a 30 minute commute
12:26:31  <Brianetta> until my bridge closed indefinitely for repairs
12:26:41  <Brianetta> Now I have to make a lengthy detour
12:26:42  <mikk36> lol...
12:26:49  <TrueLight> 'my bridge', lol
12:26:54  <Brianetta> down some stairs, and up Bottle Bank on the other side of the river
12:27:02  *** Netsplit <-> quits: hapo
12:27:08  <TrueLight> lilo alert!
12:27:15  <Brianetta> wherE?
12:27:16  <peter1138> oh noes
12:27:21  *** Netsplit over, joins: hapo
12:27:21  <Brianetta> You notify him?
12:27:30  <TrueLight> Brianetta: netsplit
12:27:30  <mikk36> ?
12:27:33  <TrueLight> always result in lilo spam
12:27:41  <Brianetta> oh
12:27:45  <Brianetta> That man needs a life.
12:27:45  <mikk36> what's a lilo spam ?
12:27:50  *** ammler [] has joined #openttd
12:27:53  <Brianetta> Oh, and a job that isn't sitting on IRC all day.
12:27:56  <TrueLight> mikk36: you haven't been long on freenode, have you? :)
12:28:08  <Brianetta> I was on his last network
12:28:15  <mikk36> err... not really... i aint here unless i need to
12:28:16  <Brianetta> The one that was thisone but not called Freenode
12:28:27  <TrueLight> mikk36: lilo is an operator, always spamming about useless shit
12:28:33  <mikk36> oh.. ok
12:28:34  <Brianetta> I think it was
12:28:48  <Brianetta> Have you seen Lilo's latest beg?
12:28:51  <TrueLight> mikk36: and he doesn't use wallops, he clearly things high of himeself
12:29:00  <Brianetta> He wants people to give him cash to buy himself a motorhome
12:29:11  <mikk36> lol...
12:29:12  <TrueLight> motorhome?
12:29:15  <Brianetta> Yes.
12:29:19  <TrueLight> what is that?
12:29:24  <Brianetta> He wants to redneck on the move, instead of in his bungalow
12:29:28  <mikk36> a car where u can live in
12:29:39  <TrueLight> lol
12:29:41  <mikk36> house rolling on wheels
12:29:48  <Brianetta> He feels that he can better serve the needs of the network with a mobile home
12:29:56  <TrueLight> hahahahahaha
12:30:00  <TrueLight> you can always try :)
12:30:01  <Brianetta> I'm serious
12:30:09  <TrueLight> I mean, why not ;)
12:30:31  <Brianetta> He's even managed to raise cash
12:30:37  <TrueLight> mikk36: to come back to your question about old AI and MP
12:30:45  <TrueLight> the old AI, as you might know, cheats a lot
12:30:49  <TrueLight> he doesn't pay for terraforming
12:30:51  <Brianetta> Well, we live in interesting times. As of 4 June, the Debian Project has moved its  domain pointer from freenode  to OFTC.
12:30:51  <TrueLight> and stuff like that
12:30:53  <Brianetta> w00t
12:31:11  <mikk36> and if u'd make him pay ?
12:31:13  <TrueLight> so in MP it would be hard to only allow an AI to cheat, and not other players :p
12:31:21  <TrueLight> the AI will die instantly
12:31:21  <mikk36> then he'd go bankrupt ?
12:31:33  <TrueLight> Brianetta: yeah, GPMI moved away from freenode too
12:31:38  <TrueLight> and more projects are going fast
12:31:46  <hylje> when we do?
12:31:50  <TrueLight> this IRC network is starting to be really annoying
12:31:53  <TrueLight> hylje: good question :)
12:32:02  <mikk36> mainly moving to where ?
12:32:08  *** Dred_furst [] has joined #openttd
12:32:10  <TrueLight> I have my own IRC network :p
12:32:11  <mikk36> to creating their own servers ?
12:32:16  <TrueLight> and I am sure we can plugin more servers in seconds :p
12:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> to quakenet :p
12:32:26  <TrueLight> quakenet sucks even more
12:32:26  <Brianetta> is taking many
12:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> we take over #tycoon :=)
12:32:31  <TrueLight> OFTC is the best option at the moment
12:32:42  <hylje> what happened to lilo-free network
12:32:45  <Brianetta> resolved to a blitzed server now
12:33:38  <TrueLight> I just love those .uk guys :p
12:33:43  <TrueLight>,
12:33:47  <TrueLight> really funny :p
12:33:50  <TrueLight>
12:34:27  <Brianetta> PDPC has exactly one employee
12:34:43  <TrueLight> but okay, I need to do some work
12:34:49  <Brianetta> despite having several different executives, only one draws a salary
12:35:02  <hylje> that being lilo?
12:35:10  <Brianetta> How did you guess?
12:35:16  <hylje> dunno, sixth sense?
12:35:28  <ln-> why not move to IRCnet?
12:35:30  <hylje> i have a "freenode finances" tar in my hd
12:35:37  <TrueLight> making your living of an IRC network is not bad ;)
12:35:48  <TrueLight> how much does he get in a year?
12:35:54  <hylje> not really, but when people think you're a jerk
12:35:55  <Brianetta> unknown
12:36:19  <TrueLight> Brianetta: any estimate?
12:36:32  <Brianetta> no information
12:36:38  <TrueLight> so a lot :)
12:36:41  <Brianetta> I'm reading the Wikipedia articles
12:36:44  <TrueLight> Then you donate to freenode for a better network
12:36:51  <TrueLight> and then he gets it for his motorhome? :p
12:37:03  <hylje> freenodebudgets.tar
12:37:25  <Brianetta>
12:37:50  <Brianetta> Intresting read.
12:38:07  <peter1138> not that interesting
12:38:11  <TrueLight> (..) and the incompetence with which he runs the Freenode IRC network (..)
12:38:12  <TrueLight> lol
12:38:14  <peter1138> nothing we didn't know before
12:38:20  <Brianetta> Aha!  His web site where he wants a motorhome:
12:38:32  <Brianetta> " Spinhome isn't a PDPC project. It's me, looking for personal resources to survive and to work more effectively on freenode and other community projects."
12:38:53  <Brianetta> " Hurricane season  is here. Our current lodgings are fragile and immobile. Please help out as soon as you can, via PayPal or a credit card. Thanks! "
12:38:56  <mikk36> and another question :)
12:39:01  <Brianetta> Lke motorhomes are windproof
12:39:06  <mikk36> in my linux setup on the laptop, the sound is kinda jerky
12:39:12  <peter1138> TrueLight: hmmmmmmm
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12:39:19  <peter1138> TrueLight: maybe we should start up a begging site?
12:39:25  <mikk36> the game runs nice but sounds are like echoed multiple times
12:39:29  <TrueLight> peter1138: yeah :)
12:39:30  <peter1138> to continue our work on ottd
12:39:34  <hylje> peter1138: s/begging/donation/g
12:39:38  <peter1138> oops
12:39:39  <peter1138> yes :D
12:39:40  <TrueLight> see if we can make a living from it :)
12:39:41  <TrueLight> would be nice ;)
12:39:56  <TrueLight> they really sniffed lilo his oper password? Haha, that is really bad :)
12:40:01  <Brianetta> What lilo really needs... is a job.
12:40:56  <hylje> did you know, lilo rices around in #gentoo
12:41:04  <hylje> and takes help more than gives
12:41:14  <Brianetta> He's not RMS.
12:41:34  <Brianetta> RMS is just a complete twit; lilo is a drain on the rest of the world.
12:41:40  <hylje> :>
12:43:34  <TrueLight> Lilo is a fraud. He is a huckster that steals money that could be going to
12:43:34  <TrueLight> legitimate open source development. There are countless programmers with
12:43:34  <TrueLight> real, valuable talent who choose to work hard for the greater good rather
12:43:34  <TrueLight> than spending all their time selling their talents to the highest bidder.
12:43:34  <TrueLight> Lilo has no talent and epitomizes the kind of vile, undisciplined leech that
12:43:35  <TrueLight> I spend my time working against.
12:43:42  <TrueLight> :s He does know how to write :p
12:43:53  <hylje> :> and you know how to use smileys :<
12:44:06  <Brianetta> (-:
12:45:35  <roboman> gngith
12:46:15  <RichK67_wrk> at the rate he is collecting funds, it will take him nearly 30 years to afford the mobile home :)
12:47:15  <TrueLight> short, he is a lamer
12:47:19  <TrueLight> okay, now we cleared that up
12:47:23  <TrueLight> who wants to donate peter1138 and me money :p
12:47:28  <Brianetta> I do (:
12:47:40  <Brianetta> but you have to acknowledge the legitimacy of my smilies.
12:47:44  <hylje> :o
12:47:47  <TrueLight> hahahahaa :
12:47:48  <TrueLight> p
12:47:54  <TrueLight> only if your donation is above the 100 dollar :p
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12:51:27  <Brianetta>  <---- (-: (-: (-:
12:52:33  <hylje> :::>
12:53:20  <TrueLight> LOL!
12:53:29  <TrueLight> he uses lipstick?!
12:53:51  <ln-> so it seems
12:54:05  <hylje> somewhat amusing
12:55:18  <ln-> though i wouldn't be extremely surprised if that photo had been enhanced using Adobe® PhotoShop® software
12:55:38  <mikk36> lol @ liloaid :P
12:57:42  <mikk36> lol...
12:57:52  <TrueLight> that people really donate money
12:57:54  <TrueLight> I Don't see why...
12:59:23  <hylje> people really buy windows
12:59:25  <hylje> i dont see why
13:01:49  <TrueLight> so, I vote here and now to move away from freenode
13:02:36  <hylje> y
13:02:40  <mikk36> hylje, i don't :)
13:02:43  <mikk36> i use a free one :P
13:02:59  <TrueLight> hylje: at least it gives you SOMETHING in return
13:03:22  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
13:03:42  <glx> WGA?
13:03:44  <hylje> mikk36: true, most people i know get it for "free"
13:03:56  <mikk36> no, i mean legally free
13:04:01  <hylje> yes
13:04:04  <mikk36> through msdnaa
13:04:04  <TrueLight> I pay 20 euro for a legal version :) I love being a student :)
13:04:06  <hylje> as in oem with the comp
13:04:56  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
13:05:17  <mikk36> (16:04:06) (hylje) as in oem with the comp <-- that is usually home version which sucks balls
13:05:30  <Brianetta> I paid £60 for Windows XP home
13:05:33  <TrueLight> yeah, sucks balls!! :p
13:05:37  <TrueLight> poor Brianetta
13:05:45  <Brianetta> That was OEM, with a new machine
13:05:52  <mikk36> even better :D
13:05:53  <TrueLight> Mostly I use the VCL from my work
13:05:58  <hylje> mikk36: but people dont care since they havent seen any better :D
13:06:06  <TrueLight> good thing about working for a school, you can use the VCL :)
13:06:30  <mikk36> well.. yeah... i guess typical home user won't need any advanced conf tools :)
13:06:53  <hylje> macintosh :>
13:06:53  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
13:06:56  <mikk36> typical home user = browses net with IE, has lots of spyware, etc
13:07:12  <RichK67_wrk> hey - Mr Caviar is back :)
13:07:21  <mikk36> ?
13:07:27  <glx> no antivirus and windows firewall
13:07:33  <mikk36> yup :P
13:07:49  <mikk36> exactly the opposite here :P
13:07:51  <glx> or even worse: norton IS
13:07:55  <mikk36> haha
13:08:06  <mikk36> i got rid of norton about 5 years ago :)
13:08:07  <hylje>
13:08:20  <hylje> i have _never_ used norton myself
13:08:22  <mikk36> weeeeee
13:08:28  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
13:09:57  <mikk36> uhm... 280m euros... that... is... pretty lot :D
13:10:30  <hylje> not quite enough tho
13:10:33  <mikk36> pretty much*
13:10:37  <RichK67_wrk> small change to a multi-billion pound profit giant
13:10:55  <mikk36> about 1/8 of my country's yearly budget :D
13:11:18  <mikk36> or smth like that... hope i didn't miscalculate
13:12:09  <hylje> i wonder where that money goes
13:13:37  <ln-> hylje: that's simple, it goes to windows® licenses.
13:14:07  <hylje> heh
13:16:03  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"]
13:16:04  <mikk36> ok
13:16:07  <mikk36> i miscalculated
13:16:19  <mikk36> it's 2/3 of our this years state budget :D
13:16:41  <hylje> heh
13:16:41  <mikk36> ~43 milliards of kroons, 61.2 millards is yearly budget :P
13:17:01  <TrueLight> kronen, lol
13:17:58  <mikk36> hmm.. damn.. gotta do more calculations to be sure.. :D
13:18:10  <hylje> jesus, lol
13:19:09  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
13:20:06  <mikk36> ah damn
13:20:13  <mikk36> i really did miscalulate :D
13:20:22  <mikk36> 1/14
13:20:26  <TrueLight> mikk36: really, and I don't mean it bad, but we don't really care :p
13:20:31  <mikk36> i know
13:20:42  <mikk36> i'm calculating this for my own fun :D
13:20:47  <TrueLight> ;)
13:20:50  <hylje> o
13:20:50  <mikk36> keeping my brain running
13:20:51  <hylje> :
13:21:01  <TrueLight> clearly it hasn't done that for a while ;)
13:21:42  <mikk36> seems so when judging by mistakes :D
13:23:03  <mikk36> wow... the yearly budget has risen 3 times in 7 years :o
13:23:12  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
13:23:34  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
13:23:47  <mikk36> anyway... on to exploring openttd :P
13:26:04  <TrueLight> good luck :)
13:26:07  <mikk36> oh and.. one of my previous questions: is my server the only one with so low id ?
13:26:08  <mikk36>
13:28:06  <mikk36> and... to make things more up to date... newer svn is out from tigris -> ->
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13:28:23  <Belugas> RichK67_wrk : Mr Caviar???
13:29:05  <TrueLight> mikk36: your server was one of the first that came online after a DB reset
13:29:06  <TrueLight> happens ;)
13:29:12  <TrueLight> and update the page if you think it is outdated
13:29:17  <TrueLight> wiki is free for editing ;)
13:29:40  <RichK67_wrk> Beluga's Caviar :)
13:31:14  <Brianetta> Server 1 was #openttdcoop
13:31:26  <Brianetta> but my server's IP changed
13:31:31  <Brianetta> and now it's somethin gelse ):
13:31:47  <mikk36> :)
13:32:16  <mikk36> i have to be logged in to make changes in wiki ?
13:32:34  <TrueLight> yes
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13:33:57  <RichK67_wrk> hmm... the date has rolled on quite a bit on the Brianetta nightly... i thought i was about the only one on there (left it at 1966 i think)
13:34:33  <Brianetta> Has anything actually happened?
13:34:38  <Brianetta> If not, I can roll it back
13:34:45  <RichK67_wrk> dont know.... i cant log in from work
13:34:58  <Brianetta> Neither can I ):
13:35:25  <RichK67_wrk> or rather, if i did, i would likely recieve my P45 in the post :)
13:35:32  <Brianetta> Heh (:
13:35:36  <mikk36> uhm.. ok
13:35:39  <Brianetta> It's only 1989
13:35:40  <mikk36> i ran into a problem
13:36:10  <TrueLight> for your information, we had 6274 unique servers (ip + port) since the last reset
13:36:14  <RichK67_wrk> its still 20+ years... means someone has rejoined...
13:36:34  <mikk36> should i start svn from it's own folder in msys ?
13:36:34  <TrueLight> ID 2 is the first that is still active
13:36:39  <TrueLight> is his name
13:36:42  <RichK67_wrk> btw Brianetta, any chance of having Planesetw.grf 1.5 in the next game
13:37:00  <TrueLight> so mikk36, you are not the lowest number :p
13:37:04  <Brianetta> Could be.  Does it work properly?
13:37:11  <RichK67_wrk> yeah... its way cool
13:37:15  <mikk36> :)
13:37:31  <Brianetta> RIght.  Email me a link, and I'll deal with it tonight.  Means a new game. (:
13:38:17  <TrueLight> lol, I found a bug in my masterserver code :p
13:38:20  <RichK67_wrk> lol - im happy to continue as is, just a thought for next game... although i think we all lost heart in this game with all the desyncs. made it quite unpleasant
13:38:22  <Belugas> RichK67_wrk : funny :)
13:38:24  <TrueLight> every night it scans ALL servers that once were online
13:39:12  <TrueLight> I should reset the db again I guess :p
13:39:54  <mikk36> and point to do that ?
13:40:01  <mikk36> ah right.. scanning time
13:40:07  <TrueLight> not to query 6000 servers that will never come online again :P
13:40:28  <TrueLight> the masterserver code just needs a rewrite
13:40:38  <mikk36> damn... i'll propably lose my low id then :D
13:40:40  <TrueLight> it once kept track of all players
13:40:48  <TrueLight> all companies
13:40:55  <TrueLight> I wanted to make stats out of it
13:41:02  <TrueLight> but I never finished :p Then players broke
13:41:07  <TrueLight> oh well
13:42:54  <RichK67_wrk> TL: what would it take to add a URL field to the network game info, so that the can display the link, and it is launchable from the join-game screen?
13:44:45  <mikk36> it'd also require setting up systemwide ottd:// or smth like that setting
13:44:49  <mikk36> so that it would open that
13:45:27  <mikk36> ah... i'll better not talk on that topic.. guess u guys are smarter :D
13:46:57  <mikk36> but to my previous problem with minGW and msys
13:47:09  <mikk36> can't start svn with the command stated on wiki
13:47:29  <glx> hmm you are using tortoise right?
13:47:53  <mikk36> nop
13:48:15  <glx> then explain what is your problem :)
13:48:19  <mikk36>
13:48:42  <mikk36> well... on wiki it says to test out msys setup by entering 3 commands
13:48:45  <mikk36> make -v
13:48:46  <mikk36> gcc -v
13:48:51  <mikk36> and svn help
13:48:59  <mikk36> but can't start svn like that
13:49:15  <glx> add svn bin dir in your path
13:49:24  <mikk36> ?
13:50:07  <glx> where is installed svn?
13:50:21  <mikk36> i did this:
13:50:21  <mikk36> Unzip the SVN package into your user folder on MSYS (ex: c:\msys\home\YourUser)
13:51:03  <mikk36>
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14:05:49  <TrueLight> I really wonder if Artea_ disabled his script...
14:06:07  <mikk36> omg.. next problem :D
14:06:10  <Zavior> Hopefully he's sleeping..
14:06:10  <mikk36> no wget :P
14:06:10  <Zavior> :-P
14:07:07  <mikk36> glx, any hint ?
14:07:13  <glx> mikk36: not really needed but it can be found on I think
14:07:17  <hylje> hm does multiple engines work as redundancy too
14:07:29  <mikk36> yeah.. but why aint it in msys ?
14:07:36  <mikk36> if the scripts use it
14:07:42  <hylje> ie. only the other engine's hp is lost if it breaks
14:07:58  <mikk36> hylje, no
14:08:22  <glx> the script was developped for cross compilation I think (but not sure)
14:10:01  <glx> and it's better to download, configure, compile, install zlib and libpng by yourself
14:10:28  <mikk36> oh great.. sf went down :D
14:10:57  <mikk36> ok,back
14:18:27  <mikk36> heh.. fun.. it's in estonian :D
14:18:28  <mikk36> wget :D
14:29:18  <Frostregen> ah cool, i need wget too
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14:34:17  <[Shaman]>
14:34:18  <[Shaman]> e//
14:38:23  <ln-> mikk36: what's in estonian?
14:39:49  <mikk36> my native language
14:39:57  <mikk36> ;)
14:40:33  <ln-> i realized that
14:40:51  <ln-> wget is in estonian?
14:40:55  <mikk36> yup
14:41:08  <mikk36> i didn't download any special version
14:41:12  <mikk36> just binaries
14:41:28  <mikk36> and it shows text in estonian in action :D
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14:42:22  <ln-> naturally
14:42:30  <mikk36> Lahendan,,, ...
14:42:32  <mikk36> Loon ühendust serveriga||:80... ebaõnnestus: Connection timed out.
14:42:34  <mikk36> Loon ühendust serveriga||:80... ühendus loodud.
14:42:36  <mikk36> HTTP päring saadetud, ootan vastust... 200 OK
14:42:38  <mikk36> Pikkus: 384 970 (376K) [application/x-bzip2
14:42:42  <Frostregen> there's a "share" folder with lots of language stuff
14:42:43  <mikk36> :)
14:42:52  <Frostregen> but don't ask me how to use that
14:43:18  <mikk36> a nice file there :)
14:43:24  <mikk36> under et folder
14:43:27  <ln-> Selvitetään osoitetta
14:43:27  <ln-> Yhdistetään palvelimeen||:80... yhdistetty.
14:43:27  <ln-> HTTP-pyyntö lähetetty, odotetaan vastausta... 200 OK
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14:43:55  <TrueLight> guys, please
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14:44:01  <TrueLight> don't paste your own language here :p
14:44:07  <TrueLight> this isn't: see my cool language :p
14:44:11  <TrueLight> there is only one cool language
14:44:12  <TrueLight> and that is dutch
14:44:16  <mikk36> nah
14:44:20  <mikk36> u're wrong
14:44:24  <TrueLight> he, you want a ban?
14:44:26  <mikk36> the only cool language is binary ;)
14:44:37  <TrueLight> You can better say: yes TrueLight, you are right TrueLight, sure TrueLight
14:44:42  <TrueLight> :p :p
14:44:45  <mikk36> lol
14:44:49  <TrueLight> okay, I can live with binary :)
14:45:39  <glx> TrueLight: will be easier to prove you're right with op status :)
14:45:41  <mikk36> happily ever after ?
14:45:47  <ln-> Herleiden van
14:45:47  <ln-> Verbinding maken met||:80... verbonden.
14:45:47  <ln-> HTTP-verzoek is verzonden, wachten op antwoord... 200 OK
14:45:59  <mikk36> german ?
14:46:03  <mikk36> nah
14:46:08  <mikk36> dutch ?
14:46:10  <TrueLight> glx: I don't need op status to proof any point :p
14:46:16  <TrueLight> ln-: see, that is what I am talking about :p
14:46:18  <TrueLight> 'herleiden', LOL!
14:46:22  <TrueLight> What a bad translation
14:46:34  <mikk36> TrueLight, u could fix it ;)
14:46:39  <TrueLight> I REFUSE! :)
14:46:44  <TrueLight> I rarely use Dutch for any program
14:46:45  <mikk36> then don't complain :D
14:46:53  <TrueLight> translating mostly ends up in a laugh :)
14:46:55  <mikk36> i don't use estonian either
14:47:03  <ln-> Last-Translator: Benno Schulenberg <>
14:47:03  <ln-> Language-Team: Dutch <>
14:47:05  <mikk36> too few it words to translate stuff
14:47:37  <TheMask96> lol :)
14:47:42  <mikk36> so language inventors come up with very strange words :D
14:47:51  <TrueLight> mostly the problem yes
14:47:54  <TheMask96> dutch looks so funny :)
14:48:00  <TrueLight> TheMask96: it smells
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15:02:33  <mikk36> o holy silence :)
15:02:48  *** StarLite [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
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15:03:13  <RichK67_wrk> bah! its not an IRC silence, unless nothing happens for an hour ;)
15:03:44  <TheMask96> some people are still working :)
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15:09:54  <peter1138> some are just idling
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15:24:21  <Patrick`> make me a happy man and tell me that signal autocompletion is in trunk, or at least maintained
15:25:29  <Brianetta> Patrick`: Is it OK if we lie to you, for the sake of your happiness?
15:25:37  <Patrick`> no.
15:25:45  <Patrick`> if I have to keep using my patched 3207 so be it
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15:25:49  <Brianetta> Unfortunately, we can't comply with your request at this time.
15:25:53  <RichK67_wrk> signal autocomplete has been totally updated to current
15:26:01  <Patrick`> I love whoever did that
15:26:03  <RichK67_wrk> but is only actively in the MiniIN
15:26:26  <Patrick`> drawbacks, then
15:27:10  <mikk36> uhm.. i have a problem compiling on win with mingw
15:27:11  <mikk36> ===> DEP players.c
15:27:11  <mikk36> 0 [main] make 6000 open_stackdumpfile: Dumping stack trace to make.exe.stackdump
15:27:11  <mikk36> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
15:27:12  <RichK67_wrk>
15:27:26  <Patrick`> prob. has the kickoff fix then
15:27:29  <glx> mikk36:  retry make crashed
15:27:41  <mikk36> ?
15:27:56  <glx> 'make' crashed, retry :)
15:28:10  <Patrick`> jesus, revision 5400
15:28:14  <Patrick`> you guys have been busy
15:28:17  <Patrick`> I salute you
15:28:19  <mikk36> crased again :/
15:28:26  <Patrick`> and I assume the kickoff bug was fixed
15:28:37  <Patrick`> (signal goes green, stationary train takes 2 seconds to move)
15:28:41  <glx> Patrick`: still here
15:28:45  <Patrick`> ffs
15:29:06  <kinnaz> mikk36, bad luck
15:29:18  <RichK67_wrk> hmm... i assumed that was "realistic acceleration" at work ;)
15:29:44  <Patrick`> it's an awful stupid bug and it singlehandedly makes traffic jams 5 times worse and halves the maximum capacity of a line
15:30:04  <Patrick`> imagine being in a car behind a really old person who doesn't notice when they can move forward
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15:38:31  <mikk36> yup.. would be nice to get rid of that...
15:38:39  <mikk36> else the realistic acceleration is fine
15:39:00  <mikk36> fun to see when some of my trains couldn't reach their top speed because of too heavy freight :D
15:39:13  <glx> this "lag" at start is a fix for train stuck on green light
15:39:26  <mikk36> ?
15:39:37  <Patrick`> yeah, it's a bugfix and the patch to remove the lag is a revert to this bug
15:39:44  <Patrick`> but I was hoping there'd be some workaround
15:39:46  <TrueLight> hehe
15:39:52  <Patrick`> by NOW
15:39:56  <Patrick`> you know, a year afterwards
15:40:02  <TrueLight> there should be made a queue per signal block
15:40:08  <TrueLight> and dequeue trains via fifo
15:40:09  <Patrick`> it's frustrating for high-end network design
15:40:40  <Patrick`> there's no point optimising anything because there's never enough train flow
15:40:45  <mikk36> yup... especially makes me hate that lag when i've created a huge network (all trains connected) and the system starts getting full because of that lag
15:40:58  <Patrick`> statistically, they cna only ever leave a junction at about 1/3 line capacity
15:41:08  <TrueLight> but do remember in real life this happens too
15:41:13  <TrueLight> train drivers see a green light
15:41:13  <Patrick`> I thought about building a complex system of backwards-guessing signals to interleave the streams
15:41:18  <TrueLight> and need time to respond to it, and get the train moving
15:41:22  <Patrick`> yes, not two days
15:41:32  <TrueLight> true :)
15:41:42  <mikk36> TrueLight, what about newer trains ?
15:41:46  <TrueLight> although, relative to the distance they travel in what time..
15:41:51  <mikk36> shouldn't they be driven by computer ?
15:41:53  <TrueLight> mikk36: even newer trains are controlled by humans
15:41:59  <Patrick`> they don't travel that distance, it's stationary ...
15:42:03  <mikk36> and the same about maglev ?
15:42:04  <TrueLight> there is _no_ computer driven train in the world yet
15:42:24  <TrueLight> Here in The Netherlands we had as one of the first computer driven busses
15:42:27  <mikk36> damn the drivers must have nerves of steel with maglev :P
15:42:28  <TrueLight> what a disaster
15:42:44  <TrueLight> mikk36: goes perfect in Germany and Japan
15:42:52  <TrueLight> Goes perfect for TGV
15:42:57  <TrueLight> or any other high-speed train
15:43:06  <mikk36> the driver controlles everything ?
15:43:14  <TrueLight> it controls speed, yes
15:43:27  <TrueLight> just the system can put a train to hold when it runs through a red PBS light
15:43:36  <anboni> TrueLight, the distaster with those buses was actually a human error though :) someone manually clearing the same piece of road for both buses
15:43:46  <TrueLight> (which doesn't work for trains running slow, made quiet a few disasters here in the last year :p)
15:43:57  <TrueLight> anboni: LOL!
15:44:17  <TrueLight> but acceleration is as far as I know still human action
15:44:29  <mikk36> one more thing.. in real life we don't have so high loads either, dow e ?
15:44:32  <mikk36> do we*
15:44:36  <TrueLight> but one thing, take the TGV, the signals are kept green for him as much as possible
15:44:41  <TrueLight> because missing a red signal is SO EASY at that speed
15:44:41  <Patrick`> yeah, that's the thing
15:44:50  <Patrick`> openttd lacks an effective load balancing solution
15:44:51  <mikk36> prioitizing...
15:44:53  <TrueLight> mikk36: yes, and that has a reason :)
15:44:59  <TrueLight> the dutch railway is at max capicity
15:45:01  <Patrick`> if I have 2 lines and let trains choose, they'll traffic jam the shortest path
15:45:18  <TrueLight> the dutch railway can't take more trains, because it would jam the whole network
15:45:20  <mikk36> in railroad tycoon there was also prioritizing.. u could let higher priority train pass a lower one
15:45:24  <TrueLight> for this exact same reason :)
15:45:53  <TrueLight> But as I said, clever signal blocks would solve the problem
15:46:01  <TrueLight> for starter, a fifo around signal blocks
15:46:01  <mikk36> yup
15:46:10  <TrueLight> would solve the initial acceleration problems
15:46:11  <mikk36> wee... it started compiling now :D
15:46:20  <TrueLight> then programmable signals to solve the 2 lines problem
15:46:45  <TrueLight> for example, two signals of which 1 is always red
15:46:53  <TrueLight> if a train passed the green one, the other gets green
15:47:02  <TrueLight> the first strays red till the other goes red
15:47:04  <mikk36> one more thing, do u create double tracks in mp too ? 4 lanes total
15:47:07  <TrueLight> perfect balancer :)
15:47:16  <TrueLight> Check coop maps :p
15:47:19  <TrueLight> we did crasier things :)
15:47:31  <mikk36> yeah.. coop.. but usual ffa map
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15:47:42  <Patrick`> truelight, yeah
15:47:46  <TrueLight> but I still think adding, say, lua to OpenTTD, and allow a small dialog where you can really program a signal
15:47:46  <mikk36> usually here's no room for more than 2 lanes
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15:47:58  <Patrick`> usually I just split the map up into segments and feed one segment into one line and another segment into another line
15:48:08  <TrueLight> Patrick`: that are work-arounds
15:48:16  <Patrick`> yeah, it's frustrating
15:48:17  <TrueLight> what we mostly do at coop, making load balancers
15:48:29  <TrueLight> so if one rail is used for 2 trainlengths, the other rail is used
15:48:33  <TrueLight> works very well, till both rails are busy
15:48:37  <TrueLight> then a train just never joins
15:48:38  <Patrick`> yeah
15:48:42  <TrueLight> which gives other problems all together
15:48:45  <Patrick`> I did one of those once
15:48:53  <TrueLight> you want that a train can already accelerate till top speed and join in small spaces
15:48:56  <Patrick`> probably the same idea
15:48:59  <TrueLight> but that first part fails
15:49:02  <mikk36> what mapsizes do u do those things ?
15:49:02  <TrueLight> so the mail line halts
15:49:05  <TrueLight> and a big jam comes next :p
15:49:14  <TrueLight> mikk36: 1024x1024
15:49:18  <Patrick`> using a backwards signal to block a merger if the main line is occupied before it, without interrupting the main line?
15:49:19  <mikk36> ok :P
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15:49:37  <TrueLight> Patrick`: that we mostly use
15:49:39  <TrueLight> in a bit more clever way
15:49:40  <TrueLight> but yes
15:49:40  <Patrick`> I have a 1024x2048 that I've technically abandoned now
15:49:50  <TrueLight> but then the joining train sometimes can never join
15:49:55  <Patrick`> I split it into 512 by 2048 strips, then ran a line down the middle of that
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15:50:03  <TrueLight> because the mailline is overused.. while there is enough space for the trains to join
15:50:07  <TrueLight> if they were at top-speed
15:50:10  <Patrick`> feeding each 512x512 block along a different track and into a factory/sawmill/etc complex
15:50:20  <TrueLight> so, you need signals that sense this
15:50:24  <TrueLight> bring the train at speed
15:50:25  <Frostregen> what is the bug, which was fixed by the red->green delay?
15:50:26  <TrueLight> let him join
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15:50:29  <Patrick`> in the center of the map I have an 8-track :)
15:50:40  <Patrick`> yeah, or divert them otherwise
15:50:41  <TrueLight> Frostregen: trains with a high number never leaving the signal at busy blocks
15:50:43  <Patrick`> onto a holding loop
15:50:55  <Patrick`> so that a slow train can never accelerate from stationary onto the main line, causing a blockage
15:51:03  <TrueLight> (a train with a lower number gets to go first when signals turn green)
15:51:07  <ln-> Patrick` is here again? ... doesn't matter, he's still on my ignore list. :)
15:51:11  <TrueLight> so we had trains waiting for years :)
15:51:16  <mikk36> :o
15:51:23  <Patrick`> that's the most retarded selection mechanism ever
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15:51:25  <mikk36> guess that is a high load
15:51:27  <Patrick`> I thought it was odd-even
15:51:35  <Frostregen> and this gets fixed by a delay?
15:51:35  <[Shaman]> [TrueLight]: but I still think adding, say, lua to OpenTTD, and allow a small dialog where you can really program a signal << How about letting the widgets be lua-generated? :o
15:51:47  <TrueLight> Patrick`: that is in fact a good idea, keeping trains running at top speed till a space opens up :)
15:51:53  <TrueLight> never thought about that.. just needs room
15:51:58  <mikk36> wouldn't it better to have a queue system ?
15:52:25  <TrueLight> Patrick`: the funniest things I have seen, was a train that was running small rounds, which was in fact a 50/50 sender to the next track
15:52:31  <TrueLight> what I described above with the red/green signals
15:52:34  <TrueLight> just a train did this
15:52:48  <TrueLight> so no matter the length of the track, the trains really went 50% of the time on one rail, 50% of the time on the other
15:53:00  <TrueLight> anyway, FOOD!!!
15:53:00  <TrueLight> bbl
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15:53:33  <Frostregen> line 394 in train_cmd.c:
15:53:34  <Frostregen> //"kickoff" acceleration
15:53:34  <Frostregen> 		force = (mass * 32) + resistance;
15:53:34  <mikk36> <-- signals under bridges ?
15:55:44  <Patrick`> TrueLight: I tried to do this
15:56:00  <Patrick`> TrueLight: using a train as a load balancer, but i never worked out how
16:00:39  <mikk36> weeee... i got it compiled successfully :D
16:04:09  <mikk36> uhm.. TrueLight, i'll ask this straightforward: what should i do to get access to coop server ?
16:05:37  <Patrick`> ask nicely, don't play like a knob
16:05:45  <Patrick`> seriously though, I got nothin'
16:05:52  <mikk36> how does a knob play ?
16:06:00  <Patrick`> antisocial play
16:06:09  <Patrick`> flooding areas, buying land around factories
16:06:14  <mikk36> o, lol.. i hate such playing style :D
16:06:21  <Patrick`> planting constant signals so you can't build a bridge over the line
16:06:22  <mikk36> f***ing others
16:06:42  <Patrick`> there's a "play like a total cock" server specifically for antisocial behaviour, it's great for some stress reliev
16:06:49  <Patrick`> but it has its place
16:06:50  <Patrick`> like a firing range
16:06:51  <mikk36> lol
16:09:05  <mikk36> and from who should i ask for access ?
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16:15:12  <mikk36> Patrick`, TrueLight ?
16:15:57  <Patrick`> no, I'm just a drifter
16:16:06  <Patrick`> a sporadic beta tester and deliverer of verbal abuse
16:16:21  <Patrick`> oh, and I wrote something for extracting sounds from the .cat file
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16:17:14  <Brianetta> Patrick`: That server would be mine, right?
16:17:35  <Patrick`> if you say so
16:17:50  <Patrick`> I found it amusing when people complained about antisocial behaviour on it
16:18:00  <Brianetta> On my deathmatch server?
16:18:06  <Brianetta> Who complained?
16:19:10  <Brianetta> mikk36: All information about the #openttdcoop servers is on the wiki
16:19:35  <mikk36> hmm, ok
16:19:58  <Brianetta> There's a channel here, too
16:20:03  <Brianetta> #openttdcoop
16:20:15  <Patrick`> brian, I think you posted some chatlogs
16:20:17  <Patrick`> or someone else did
16:20:25  <Brianetta> Oh, that
16:20:27  <Patrick`> it was specifically a server for antisocial behaviour
16:20:29  <Brianetta> that was my nightly server
16:20:33  <Patrick`> and said so on the title
16:20:36  <Brianetta> oh yeah
16:20:38  <Brianetta> sorry
16:20:40  <Brianetta> I remember that
16:20:46  <Brianetta> Ooh, that was a while ago
16:21:25  <Patrick`> yeah, I told you I drift in and out
16:21:32  <Brianetta> I did wonder about the mental capacity of somebody who went into a server, to be greeted by a message saying anything goes... who came crying to me because people weren't playing fairly.
16:21:33  <Patrick`> I stopped playing at r3200
16:21:50  <Brianetta> You haven't played with new stations then?
16:21:54  <Brianetta> They're very cool
16:22:23  <Patrick`> nope
16:22:32  <Patrick`> I'm guessing new art, which means looking like ass
16:22:43  <Patrick`> no offense, but the originals are hand-crafted masterpeices
16:22:52  <Brianetta> The originals are still there
16:23:02  <Brianetta> It's just that you can build stations from a greater selection of graphics
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16:23:27  <Patrick`> Meh.
16:23:36  <Patrick`> anything'd look wrong next to them
16:23:42  <mikk36> :P
16:23:44  <mikk36> i agree
16:23:47  <Patrick`> anytway, I have this autocompletion build from 5300
16:23:48  <Brianetta> Some, such as the industrial stations, are so close in theme to the industries they serve
16:23:54  <Brianetta> it's like they're part of the original set
16:23:55  <Patrick`> I'll drop in my datafiles and give it a whirl
16:24:07  <Patrick`> cool, specific "this one is next to a coal mine" station models?
16:24:12  <Brianetta> yes
16:24:20  <Patrick`> any reason to use them other than aesthetics?
16:24:30  <Brianetta> Just trying to find a pic I uploaded
16:24:33  <Brianetta> No reason
16:24:36  <Patrick`> some bonus? preferential turnaround times for that cargo? increased delivery bonus for that cargo?
16:24:43  <Brianetta> although they often show you wjhat's waiting
16:24:46  <mikk36> if u also create faster loading with specific theme then i'll start using them :)
16:24:53  <mikk36> else i'll stick to the classic supreme
16:24:56  <Brianetta> The wood station shows more logs next to the track as your station fills
16:25:02  <Brianetta> and so on
16:25:03  <Patrick`> cool, pictures of piled-up coal on the platforms ..
16:25:08  <Patrick`> and so on
16:25:08  <mikk36> lol
16:26:12  <Brianetta> There are separate coal drop-off and pickup stations
16:26:25  <Patrick`> mmm
16:26:38  <Patrick`> I've lost sight of the aesthetic qualities of ottd
16:26:50  <Patrick`> in my quest to funnel goods as far away as possible along razor-straight trunks
16:26:56  <Patrick`> flattening towns indiscriminately
16:27:14  <Patrick`> I should go for medium-scale journies, and try to service every signle secondary industry
16:27:31  <Patrick`> a large meshlike network but not many large-scale journies
16:27:32  <Brianetta> and following posts
16:27:44  <Brianetta> My first nightly server game after the new stations support was committed
16:28:04  <Brianetta> I took loads of pics and uploaded them in one mammoth post-a-thon
16:28:45  <Patrick`> I'm going to stick with normal rails from now on
16:28:52  <Patrick`> because then sharp corners aren't such a killer
16:29:11  <Patrick`> and proper depos
16:29:12  <Brianetta> I use PikkaBird's UKRS
16:29:17  <Brianetta> Normal rails last longer
16:29:24  <Brianetta> In fact, the last train in the game is a regular rail train
16:29:25  <Patrick`> oh, and of course elrails
16:29:54  <Patrick`> no, the point is that if corners killthe speed to 55, that needs to be not, like, 10% of the top speed like it is with a monorail
16:29:57  <Patrick`> but more like 50
16:30:15  <Brianetta>
16:30:26  <Brianetta> That is, in my opinion, the greates train set for TTD
16:30:37  <Brianetta> The graphics match the original look
16:30:45  <Brianetta> the gameplay is astounding
16:30:50  <Brianetta> the balance near-perfect
16:30:53  <Brianetta> no monorails
16:30:55  *** Osai is now known as Osai^train
16:31:06  <Brianetta> and maglevs are pricey to run, and can only carry passenger, mail and goods.
16:31:30  <Brianetta> The locomotives page has piccies of all the locos - you can see how like the originals the set is, in look and feel
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16:32:31  <RichK67_wrk> brianetta: for me, the lack of freight on maglev is ukrs's biggest flaw... i want a future rail system, not the same old conventional rubbish
16:32:41  <Brianetta> yes
16:32:50  <Brianetta> I see it differently
16:33:01  <Brianetta> I can't see any future rail being implemented as a replacement
16:33:05  <Brianetta> only in addition
16:33:31  <RichK67_wrk> wagon speed limits are really bad post-2020... almost all engines can do 100+, but the freight is limited to < 80 :(
16:33:49  <Brianetta> Not all freight is that slow
16:33:50  <Frostregen> there are newer waggons too
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16:34:20  <RichK67_wrk> not for wood, livestock, etc...
16:34:29  <Brianetta> Livestock can't be carried that fast
16:34:32  <Brianetta> it can't be seated
16:35:17  <RichK67_wrk> bah... have they never heard of inertia damping fields :)
16:35:31  <RichK67_wrk> stop the animals bumping into one-another
16:35:40  <Frostregen> just pierce the cows and use maglev tech =)
16:36:16  <RichK67_wrk> also, early on you can transport milk... well, livestock in liquid tankers... but late on, you cant :(
16:37:06  <mikk36> lol
16:37:11  <Brianetta> You can with newindustries
16:37:14  <Brianetta> but it isn't complete
16:37:40  <RichK67_wrk> so freight gets limited to 92mph... :(     if i could get my speed signs working with yapf, then at least we could sort the slow freight off the fast passenger lines
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16:38:04  <Brianetta> Freight is kept off my passenger lines where possible
16:38:12  <Brianetta> or it shares short stretches
16:38:55  <RichK67_wrk> usually there is the 4 track solution... 2 lines in each direction, one for express, one for freight
16:39:11  <Brianetta> I implement 3 and a half
16:39:25  <Brianetta> 2 express, with duplex line with passing sidings for freight
16:39:25  <RichK67_wrk> speed signs could sort that out dead easy, but it doesnt work on yapf
16:40:19  <RichK67_wrk> so freight on a 2 way line?
16:40:57  <Brianetta> Where necessary, yes
16:41:15  <RichK67_wrk> oh yeah, another thought about your server... planeset + newships :)
16:41:23  <Brianetta> newships?
16:41:26  <Brianetta> Do they look shit?
16:41:37  <RichK67_wrk> god no... they are superb
16:41:43  <Brianetta> I might look into it then
16:41:50  <Brianetta> most ship grfs I've seen lose the feel
16:41:53  <RichK67_wrk> michael blunk work
16:41:56  <TrueLight> mikk36: join #openttdcoop
16:41:59  <Brianetta> blunk?
16:42:02  <Brianetta> I might not be able to
16:43:14  <RichK67_wrk>
16:43:48  <RichK67_wrk> sorry... try   and choose the newships option
16:44:47  * Brianetta reads the license agreement
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16:45:21  <Brianetta> The Daewoo and the Mitsui look really bad
16:46:00  <Brianetta> the Brown isn't impressive
16:46:31  <RichK67_wrk> ive seen them IRL... they do look like that... a bit boring, but better than original TT
16:47:20  <Brianetta> The lettering on the side of the Mitsui goes over the gunwales
16:48:24  <RichK67_wrk> and you're gonna reject them cos of that ??? ;)  :-<
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16:48:43  <Wolf01> hi all
16:50:48  <RichK67_wrk> bye... hometime... after another unproductive day :(
16:51:14  * TrueLight gives RichK67_wrk a cookie
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16:56:18  <RichK67_wrk> gone
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16:58:40  <TrueLight> "Try making poll for "Server Advertising" for info about Public Servers at OpenTTD Master Server... Thanks Wink" <- does anyone understnad what Artea_ is trying to say here? :s
16:59:24  <Eddi|zuHause> i am afraid i don't
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17:00:11  <TrueLight> Then lucky I am not the only one who couldn't figure out this gibberish
17:00:51  <TrueLight> I can only guess he never saw, but that is just a guess
17:03:42  <Patrick`> TL, you're gripped by a remote fear that perhaps the report is concealing a real issue
17:04:06  <TrueLight> Patrick`: possible ;)
17:04:13  <TrueLight> But then again, Artea wrote it
17:04:14  <TrueLight> :p
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17:11:35  <Artea_> what i wrote ?
17:11:58  <Artea_> TrueLight: i saw
17:12:22  <Artea_> hours ago of posting that
17:12:47  <TrueLight> so first search, then complain/ask
17:12:55  <Artea_> soz
17:12:56  <Artea_> :(
17:13:30  <TrueLight> sorry to say, but you are the prototype of an annoying user
17:16:27  <Artea_> TrueLight: and the server site don't have all information...
17:16:36  <Artea_> i know
17:16:38  <Artea_> thanks :D
17:16:55  <TrueLight> it generally is really bad to take that as a compliment
17:17:07  <Artea_> no
17:17:21  <Artea_> if i not so annoying
17:17:26  <Artea_> who was ?
17:17:31  <Artea_> God ?
17:17:46  <TrueLight> I am so glad we have a +b future in IRC
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17:18:22  <Artea_> but that is for using a ppl who calls bad names for others' mothers
17:18:28  <Artea_> and things like that
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17:20:48  <Artea_> but TrueLight
17:20:57  <Artea_> if u don't like my posts
17:21:02  <CIA-3> miham * r5485 /trunk/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt spanish.txt turkish.txt):
17:21:02  <CIA-3> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-07-12 19:20:40
17:21:02  <CIA-3> brazilian_portuguese - 4 changed by tucalipe (4)
17:21:02  <CIA-3> spanish - 1 fixed by eusebio (1)
17:21:02  <CIA-3> turkish - 1 fixed by jnmbk (1)
17:21:04  <Artea_> i can delete all
17:23:34  <Patrick`> Artea_: we literally cannot understand the words that you say
17:23:37  <Patrick`> don't take this personally
17:23:46  <Patrick`> I can't just politely ignore it because it's not your first language
17:24:57  <Artea_> i know
17:24:58  <Artea_> soz
17:24:59  <Artea_> :/
17:26:04  <Patrick`> still, if there's one thing I know it's that you'd appreciate having mistakes pointed out
17:26:11  <Patrick`> I know I would if I was trying to learn a language
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17:28:38  <Artea_> i need a Baka's English Lesson
17:28:39  <Artea_> LOL
17:28:54  <hylje> baka
17:29:25  <Patrick`> bakla?
17:29:43  <peter1138> baklava!
17:29:45  <peter1138> mmm
17:29:51  <Artea_>
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17:30:50  <Patrick`> mm baklava
17:30:53  <Patrick`> with CRUSHED NUTS
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17:37:06  <elho> hi
17:40:27  <elho> i have added a waypoint to the shared orders of a train, but accidently at the wrong position (at the end). so i added it at the correct one and now want to delete it at the wrong one. but when i select the waypoint and press Delete, it deletes the whole set of orders as if i had selected the --- End ... line
17:41:51  <Belugas> hehehe : you're always craving peter1138 ;)
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17:44:09  <elho> oh, fun. now with 2 waypoints at the end, only selecting the upper one unlocks the Delete button, for the lower one it isn't even possible to attempt deleting it :o
17:44:33  <TL|Away> elho: you found a nasty bug
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17:49:33  <elho> TL|Away: yeah, seems so... my hope is that someone knows a workaround ;)
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17:50:11  <anboni> elho, if you're lucky, TL|Away will have been so intrigued by this that you'll have an actual fix by the end of the evening :)
17:52:07  <elho> hehe :)
17:52:37  <hylje> :o
17:53:17  <vrak> are there any sane ways to make 2-track both-way RoRo stations?
17:53:37  <anboni> yeah.. x tracks one way and x tracks the other way :)
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17:55:46  <Wolf01> vrak, i tried but i discovered that you get less problems with 2 tracks one way RORO stations
17:56:19  <vrak> i'm beginning to find that out myself
17:56:40  <vrak> they manage to jam themselves suprisingly often with only 5 trains on the line :/
17:56:43  <Zavior> :)
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17:58:32  <Wolf01> you get more trains waiting in queue but it doesn't jam anymore
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17:59:42  <vrak> yes, but that layout means separating the stations from the main-line (which i really should do anyway), and that'll likely get rather interesting (rather cramped a few places)
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18:01:57  <Brianetta> Anybody here worked on the Planeset?
18:02:15  <Patrick`> stations ... inline ?
18:02:16  <Patrick`> ew
18:02:20  <Brianetta> Says on the web site, "All the elements of the Planeset are copyrighted to their respective artists, as detailed in the accompanying readme file. The Set may not be used in any for-profit undertaking, in whole or in part. Other use is restricted under applicable laws. The Set as a whole may be freely distributed as long as it is accompanied by its readme file, and is distributed under the GPL."
18:02:31  *** tokai [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:02:32  <Brianetta> Either it's under the GPL or it's not under the GPL
18:02:41  <Patrick`> yeah, that's a conflicting license
18:02:44  <elho> vrak: the bulldozer is your friend in cramped places ;)
18:02:52  <Patrick`> take it under the gpl, sell it on CD, see what they do
18:02:53  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
18:02:57  <vrak> heh
18:03:10  <hylje> you can dual-licence
18:03:36  <Patrick`> I choose to use it in a for-profit enterprise under the GPL
18:03:49  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
18:03:53  <Patrick`> basically it's saying you can either have our stupid botch-job of a 3 sentence license, or the GPL
18:04:15  <Zavior> Hey Brianetta, when will there be a new game in your nightly server?
18:04:42  <Brianetta> Zavior: Depends whether I want to change theg rfs about now, or later
18:05:03  <Brianetta> Zavior: I normally don't start a new game unless the server reaches 2050 by update time
18:05:33  <Zavior> k, that game woud take few weeks to reach 2050 o_O
18:05:49  <Brianetta> only because nobody plays it
18:06:02  <Zavior> True :P
18:09:12  <Wolf01> Brianetta: Specify -> Design -> Code -> Test -> Release, i thought was
18:09:12  <Wolf01> Specify -> Design -> Code -> :back Release -> Test -> Revert -> Patch -> Loop(back)
18:10:37  <Brianetta> what?
18:10:44  <Brianetta> You've lost me
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18:20:40  <Wolf01> you said it there:
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18:29:14  <Brianetta> Updating router firmware.  No doubt I'll ping out.
18:30:55  <Belugas> Anyone on a NON Intel platform around?
18:30:59  <Belugas> i have someting to test
18:31:54  <Artea_> Belugas: i don't have... but if u wait few days
18:32:05  <Artea_> maybe i have it
18:32:21  <tokai> Belugas: u mean AMD?
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18:32:58  <Rubidium> he means non-Little Endian :)
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18:33:08  <Belugas> no. sorry, i meant
18:33:09  <Belugas> yes
18:33:13  <Belugas> thanks Rubidium
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18:34:54  <Belugas> ho... i forgot...and someone who can compile newgrf_lab...
18:35:36  *** Ihmemies [] has joined #openttd
18:35:39  <Belugas> that someone i have in mind would be Bjarni, perfect test bencher ...
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18:48:16  <elho> uh, waypoints seem more broken. now that i redid them orders, the last station on the list shows the same nehaviour as the waypoint before plus the trains ignore (ie. skip) it :o
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19:10:38  <RichK67> ping brianetta
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19:15:14  <Brianetta> opng
19:15:54  <RichK67> the planesetw you're using is the old one... they havent updated their website to admit that OTTD now fully supports planeset 1.5
19:16:07  <RichK67> just download the normal planeset :)
19:17:06  <Brianetta> where from?
19:17:10  <Brianetta> I told you to send me a link
19:17:17  <RichK67>
19:17:21  <RichK67> link :)
19:17:50  <Brianetta> That's where I got it
19:17:55  <RichK67> 1.5.2 is ok on the nightly
19:18:03  <RichK67> but not on 0.4.7
19:18:06  <Brianetta> Aren't they all that?
19:18:36  <Brianetta> Man, this is why I hate grfs
19:19:03  <RichK67> yeah... and some people think its "the way to go"... bah!
19:22:46  <Brianetta> PlaneSetw.grf != planesetw.grf
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19:23:11  <Patrick`> mm, case
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19:25:05  <RichK67> from their website: mart3p is working on a patch to make the official Planeset work in OpenTTD; it is available in this thread.
19:25:06  <RichK67> The OpenTTD trunk is close to fully supporting the PlaneSet, as of r5285.
19:25:20  <Brianetta> regerbilled
19:25:26  <Brianetta> close?
19:25:49  <RichK67> some minor graphics tweaks... utf8 support, etc.
19:26:13  <Brianetta> dbg: [PlaneSetw.grf:11][Fatal] Designed to be used with planespeed 1..4 or planespeed on.
19:26:45  <RichK67> oh! that sounds horribly patchian
19:33:09  <RichK67> PlaneSetw.grf works fine here... no errors that i can see
19:37:08  <peter1138> yeah
19:37:19  <peter1138> your version has a patch that makes it ignore that warning
19:37:26  <peter1138> (not that the warning does anything anyway)
19:38:01  <RichK67> okies... its a debug message anyway
19:39:15  <peter1138> mind you
19:39:22  <peter1138> the planeset thread still says 1.2's the latest, heh
19:39:50  <RichK67> but the link takes you to the other planeset thread with the 1.5.2 in it
19:39:55  <RichK67> go figure :P
19:40:29  <Brianetta> grf filenames should have the version in them
19:40:47  <Brianetta> looking at openttd.cfg and expecting it to be relevant is fanciful
19:40:58  <Brianetta> this is why I provide a zip
19:41:13  <Brianetta> and *that* is why I can't use a "do not distribute" grf
19:41:20  <RichK67> yeah
19:41:34  <peter1138> heh, there's no real version inside the grf either
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19:41:42  <Brianetta> I'd rename them all
19:41:48  <Brianetta> but users would get confuzzled
19:41:55  <RichK67> daft really - the author putting a grf on the web, then saying "no distribution".. .duh!!
19:41:59  <Brianetta> and fail to be capable of doing the same
19:42:21  <Brianetta> RichK67: Some do it to ensure people get the latest version
19:42:36  <RichK67> true
19:42:42  <Brianetta> Remember, Patch doesn't do network games, so version mismatches aren't an issue
19:42:55  <peter1138> it does
19:43:05  <peter1138> but not very well :)
19:43:11  <Brianetta> We need to readjust that attitude with a clue-by-four
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20:31:41  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what a clue-by-four might be...
20:32:24  <Patrick`> then you need one more than ever
20:32:32  <Patrick`> it's a big stick you beat sense into people
20:32:41  <Patrick`> modelled on the staple of british carpentry, the two-by-four
20:33:44  <Brianetta>
20:33:51  <Brianetta> *There* is a problem I'm not going near
20:33:58  <Brianetta> It looks like everything is going wrong
20:34:05  <Brianetta> rather than a thing
20:34:31  <hylje> :o
20:35:01  <Patrick`> step one, check for gentoo
20:35:48  <Brianetta> lol
20:36:01  <Patrick`> step 2, check for dialup
20:36:40  <hylje> step 3. the troubleshooter was unable to resolve your problem.
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20:43:12  <Patrick`> hunt down customer and kill them
20:43:36  <Patrick`> yo, you guys work on reactos, right?
20:43:45  <Patrick`> get yerself submitted to the reactos compatibility list then
20:44:02  <TL|Away> "you guys", lol
20:44:14  <Patrick`> I'd say us but I've been away
20:44:16  <hylje> Patrick`: isnt ottd in the reactos screenshot gallery? :b
20:44:22  <TL|Away> I rather say: the game
20:44:22  <Patrick`> I guess so
20:44:26  <peter1138> what's reactos?
20:44:41  <Patrick`> as linux is to unix, so reactos is to windows
20:44:48  <Patrick`> free clone, aims to be binary compatible
20:45:07  <peter1138> so not really as linux is to unix at all
20:45:11  <TL|Away> based on linux
20:45:13  <TL|Away> uses wine
20:45:13  <TL|Away> :p
20:45:18  <Patrick`> like hell it is
20:45:27  <Patrick`> it's not the linux kernel
20:45:39  <Patrick`> anyway, what's openttd-useful-v1.1 ?
20:46:41  <peter1138> png
20:46:43  <peter1138> zlib
20:46:43  <peter1138> etc
20:46:54  <Patrick`> ah, fair enough
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21:07:53  <Belugas_Gone> good night
21:08:30  <Wolf01> 'night all
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