Log for #openttd on 1st August 2006:
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00:02:11  <Sacro> wtf is bob the builder doing on
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00:17:53  <Magus_X_AWAY> hey, i got a problem
00:17:58  <Magus_X_AWAY> when i updated
00:18:16  <Magus_X_AWAY> my newgrfs dont works anymore, i placed them back to the openttd.cfg
00:18:25  <Magus_X_AWAY> they get listed on newgrf list
00:18:31  <Magus_X_AWAY> but they dont works in game
00:18:38  <Magus_X_AWAY> they simply dont get listed
00:18:49  <Magus_X_AWAY> on stations per exemple
00:18:52  <glx> what was the version you used before?
00:19:13  <glx> and what version are you using now?
00:19:19  <Magus_X_AWAY> Nightly 5202
00:19:23  <Magus_X_AWAY> and now 0.4.8RC2
00:19:45  <glx> ok so it's normal
00:20:00  <Magus_X_AWAY> so what should i do?
00:20:04  <glx> newstations will be in 0.5.0
00:20:08  <Magus_X_AWAY> ah
00:20:09  <Magus_X_AWAY> ok
00:20:11  <Magus_X_AWAY> thanks
00:20:24  <Magus_X_AWAY> :)
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01:22:24  <luckzeh> okay.
01:22:29  <luckzeh> so there's this train crossing.
01:22:29  <Matex> okay :)
01:22:57  <luckzeh> a competition diesel train, no wagons, is standing right on it. he says he can't move it.
01:23:09  <luckzeh> four to five of my trucks are standing on top of each other on either side, also refusing to move.
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02:26:44  <Matex> luckzeh, so he has basically blocked your route to stuff up profits for you?
02:26:58  <luckzeh> no.
02:27:09  <luckzeh> his train and my trucks together bugged up and all refused to move.
02:27:15  <luckzeh> 9 trucks and one train, that means,
02:27:35  <luckzeh> 4/5 trucks on top of each other on each side of the crossing
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06:05:08  <CIA-5> tron * r5689 /trunk/newgrf_station.c: Default a station tile to be electrifiable if there is no other information available. I suppose this was a copy&paste error
06:08:25  <CIA-5> tron * r5690 /trunk/newgrf_station.c: Factor common code to reduce code duplication
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06:52:57  <Darkvater> morning
06:55:38  <peter1138> hello
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06:59:56  <MiHaMiX> morning
07:00:24  <roboman> morning
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08:56:55  * roboman dinner
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09:09:11  <CIA-5> rubidium * r5691 /branches/TGP/heightmap.c: [TGP] -Codechange: generalize RGBToGrayscale as it is likely that it will be used by other heightmap implementations
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09:41:26  <SpComb> Logs:
09:41:26  <Bjarni> !logs
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10:18:50  <eQualizer> Is there any reasons why I shouldn't upgrade to ...RC2 from 0.4.7?
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10:32:13  <luckzeh> eQualizer: you could upgrade to the MiniIN :p
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10:52:00  <Darkvater> eQualizer: it is not final
10:52:15  <luckzeh> and that
10:52:23  <hylje> omg lol
10:52:25  <hylje> hi dv
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10:53:06  <Darkvater> hi
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11:07:02  <peter1138> hi
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11:09:05  <Darkvater> hiya peter1138
11:16:00  <luckzeh> [02:17:49] [Magus_X_AWAY] when i updated <- why call you downdating updating?
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11:26:54  <Bjarni> hi people
11:29:50  <Darkvater> 'ello
11:30:55  <Bjarni> Darkvater: "autoscroll (to left/right) when the mouse is near the edge of the screen" <-- you can enable up/down as well, but people keep scrolling when they want to press the buttons, so it's off by default
11:31:00  <Bjarni> it's a patch setting
11:31:08  <Darkvater> ?
11:31:29  <Bjarni> your list in about
11:32:06  <Bjarni> you said you wanted feedback on it
11:32:22  <Darkvater> ah yes
11:32:25  <Darkvater> but on the forums :)
11:33:00  <Bjarni> "window mode with double zoom (CTRL+D to toggle) (MS Windows only)" <-- it sounds like only windows supports windowed mode. Even though I understand you, it would be nice to write it in a way so other people don't misunderstand this ;)
11:33:09  <Darkvater> Bjarni: forums
11:33:34  <Bjarni> ...
11:33:41  <Bjarni> you want me to tell you this twice?
11:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause> why is Ctrl+D windows only anyway?
11:33:51  <peter1138> no, just once, in the forums
11:34:12  <peter1138> because it's not implemented in the SDL driver
11:34:14  <Darkvater> do what peter1138 says ;)
11:34:19  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: because the guy, who coded it used windows and added it in the windows native driver only
11:34:41  <peter1138> hq2x!
11:34:45  <Bjarni> nobody bothered to apply this to any of the other drivers
11:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause> which is sad, because i liked that feature ;)
11:35:30  <Bjarni> then "port" it
11:35:46  <Bjarni> and while you are at it, fix it in the cocoa drivers as well ;)
11:35:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well... not now... ;)
11:36:10  <Bjarni> I expect it to work at 17:00
11:36:24  <Bjarni> since I know that you can be efficient
11:36:56  <Eddi|zuHause> lol ;)
11:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, i need to beat up the BAFöG people (student support)
11:38:01  <Eddi|zuHause> because they want money back
11:38:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so i'm away now
11:39:17  * Kjetil thinks ctrl-D is a bad shortcut.. As it mostly used as EOF
11:43:42  <luckzeh> having multiple airports per city isn't possible in OTTD, is it?
11:43:58  <Bjarni> I got an idea: let's move this feature to some other hotkey, and then make control+D make one of your trains blow up
11:44:23  <RichK67_wrk> luckzeh: you can have two
11:44:45  <RichK67_wrk> rephrase that - a city can have two...
11:45:21  <luckzeh> oh, and Bjarni, could you tell me where to look for the guy who wrote the patch to set station options like the max days a vehicle waits till it's loaded? it's in miniin
11:45:29  <luckzeh> and it breaks MP a bit, if actually used
11:47:02  <Bjarni> err
11:47:08  <Bjarni> how should I know? :)
11:47:14  <peter1138> try the miniin threads in the forum
11:47:14  <luckzeh> [01:06:07] [luckzeh] the option to "wait max days" in stations makes all my MP client dc with desync errors :p
11:47:18  <Bjarni> ask RichK67_wrk since he made the MiniIN ;)
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11:47:33  <luckzeh> well, then he may feel asked :)
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11:49:08  <Darkvater> why the hell does windows use CreateFile(.... OPEN_EXISTING) to check if a file exists instead of using fopen with "r" ?
11:50:14  <hylje> because windows is one large WTF
11:50:38  <RichK67_wrk> im checking - cant find it with a quick look
11:50:55  <Bjarni> yeah. hylje got a point
11:51:09  <Darkvater> hylje: no I mean why does openttd use that
11:54:02  <peter1138> because it's in windows code and therefore doesn't get tronised
11:54:20  <Darkvater> hehe
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11:58:43  <RichK67_wrk> luckzeh: the options are added by gigajum's Additional Orders patch
11:59:13  <luckzeh> well, do you feel like bothering him about how that causes MP desyncs?
12:01:41  <RichK67_wrk> why dont you... put a (nice) post in the MiniIN problems thread (sticky in the Problems forum), with a clear explanation, and preferably a savegame that you know desyncs.
12:02:27  <RichK67_wrk> note it specifically to gigajum - he is usually very good at bughunting and posting fixes
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12:38:50  <roboman> gnight
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13:30:48  <CIA-5> miham * r5692 /trunk/lang/slovak.txt:
13:30:48  <CIA-5> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-01 15:27:09
13:30:48  <CIA-5> slovak - 11 changed by lengyel (11)
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13:34:12  <Magus_X_AWAY> <luckzeh> [02:17:49] [Magus_X_AWAY] when i updated <- why call you downdating updating?
13:34:19  <Magus_X_AWAY> because the nightly was a bit old
13:34:20  <Trenskow> the "service" option in the orders window... does that mean it only services at that particular depot ?
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13:35:57  <Sacro> Trenskow: afaik, yes
13:36:05  <Trenskow> nice
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13:52:10  <CIA-5> truelight * r5693 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( configure):
13:52:10  <CIA-5> [MakefileRewrite] -Add: first set of new-type Makefiles.
13:52:10  <CIA-5>  Configure doesn't detect anything yet, neither does endian-test works.
13:52:10  <CIA-5>  Short to say: it doesn't work. But, it is a good start ;)
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13:56:16  <CIA-5> truelight * r5694 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ [MakefileRewrite] -Fix: allow verbose in main makefile
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14:18:37  <Trenskow> what does the little red dot in the status line mean ?
14:20:14  <Darkvater> news
14:20:16  <Darkvater> hidden
14:20:19  <Darkvater> click on it to show
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14:22:34  <luckzeh> ..
14:22:39  <luckzeh> so those new bus stations are broken too?
14:23:20  <Darkvater> 5535
14:23:21  <Darkvater> ?
14:23:41  <luckzeh> 5663 miniin
14:23:52  <Darkvater> ah
14:24:01  <Darkvater> you really needa report miniin bugs on the forums
14:24:18  <luckzeh> is there any way to get my stuck vehicle to move, turn around or do anything else with violent force?
14:24:48  <luckzeh> wow.
14:25:04  * Darkvater pushes luckzeh down a deep ravine
14:25:16  <luckzeh> I made it move by building another old-style one where it wanted to go.
14:25:18  * luckzeh dies :x
14:29:20  <luckzeh> (and then it proceeded to go loading twice every time, so I'll just stop using the weird new ones)
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14:38:27  <RichK67_wrk> luckzeh: if you read the instructions in the road stops thread on how to use the new road stops, you will know you have to have an extra piece of normal road beyond the stop to allow a vehicle to turnaround (it has passed the turn around position on the roadstop tile, so has to go one more tile and turn there)
14:39:23  <luckzeh> only read the stuff I found in the wiki (miniin-wise)
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15:01:27  <Sacro_>  RichK67_wrk MiniIN FTW :D
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15:01:57  <RichK67_wrk> FTW?
15:02:08  <Sacro> yes :)
15:02:14  <Sacro> for t3h win
15:02:29  <RichK67_wrk> sorry - what does it mean...
15:02:43  <Sacro> for the win, kinda like voting
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15:02:49  <hylje> for the win.
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15:03:04  <RichK67_wrk> oh... still clueless ;)
15:03:06  <peter1138> it means nothing
15:03:46  <Sacro> RichK67_wrk: it needs a weekly autosave though
15:04:29  <Sacro> hmm, i just loaded up a game, clicked on a station, and there was nothing waiting
15:04:52  <Sacro> cos i loaded the wrong save..
15:05:04  <RichK67_wrk> ah... user trouble ;)
15:06:24  <Sacro> those physics patches make a lot of difference
15:06:38  <Sacro> you realise just how bad a 0-6-0 tank is for heavy freight
15:08:08  <RichK67_wrk> lol - it might make UKRS far more sensible... currently it is a waste of time upgrading many freight locos if you only use short (7-8 wagon) trains since a EE Type 1 is faster than a Type 5... but with physics on, the power of the type 5 should really show through
15:11:54  <Sacro> yes, i cant wait for the next engines...
15:12:26  <Sacro> :o 172k a year running cost
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15:18:13  <Sacro> its scary how fast a train can brake
15:18:34  <luckzeh> on that topic, what are brake vans for exactly?
15:19:05  <luckzeh> and does it matter how I order the different train parts?
15:19:08  <CIA-5> truelight * r5695 /branches/makefile_rewrite/ ( [MakefileRewrite] -Add: 'make window.o' in main-Makefile is given to all sub-Makefiles, giving an easy way to compile single files
15:20:06  <Sacro> luckzeh: in the olden days, brake vans where used to keep the tension on the rake
15:20:21  <Sacro> so that when you slowed down, all the carridges didnt slam into each other
15:23:42  <luckzeh> why are they in the UKRS - do they serve any actual ingame function?
15:27:08  <Skiddles^> They look awesome :D
15:27:48  <Skiddles^> Well, they do make the tank engines reverse without flipping around in the patch.
15:28:12  <Sacro> luckzeh: well im hoping to have realistic deceleration soon
15:28:20  <Sacro> with newsignals in YAPF
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15:30:30  <Skiddles^> Realistic braking :D
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15:50:20  <luckzeh> does the functionality of the replace vehicles command depend on the autorenew minimum money?
15:50:36  <RichK67_wrk> yes
15:52:52  <luckzeh> can I force that anyhow?
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16:00:41  <RichK67_wrk> well, you can customise the minimum money amount in settings, but you also need to have no loan IIRC...
16:04:09  <luckzeh> it worked while having loan
16:04:17  <luckzeh> just took a very long while :p
16:04:21  <luckzeh> and told me it failed while actually working
16:04:54  <luckzeh> is there an actual complicated formula to how much max loan you can have?
16:06:55  <Sacro> something to do with max_loan + so much %age of company value
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16:11:20  <RichK67_wrk> i thought it was just time related...
16:19:01  <hylje>  inflation related afaik
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17:13:53  <Wolf01> yo
17:14:08  <Wolf01> Frostregen, added a poll for the hotkeys :P
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17:56:46  <CIA-5> miham * r5696 /trunk/lang/turkish.txt:
17:56:46  <CIA-5> WebTranslator2 update to 2006-08-01 19:56:23
17:56:46  <CIA-5> turkish - 5 changed by jnmbk (5)
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18:06:24  <MrRexxie> the last change done to string.c seems to have broken it on windows, at least when I try to compile it here.. :P
18:06:29  *** MrRexxie is now known as Rexxie
18:06:57  <Sacro> what rev?
18:07:07  <Rexxie> 5684
18:07:39  <Rexxie> warning C4013: 'tolower' undefined; assuming extern returning int
18:09:27  <Bjarni> we got a commit about tolower() today
18:09:35  <Bjarni> that's likely the one that breaks it for you
18:09:56  <Bjarni> luckily it was detected -6 minutes before the nightly builds are compiled :P
18:10:24  <Rexxie> hehe
18:10:38  <Rexxie> just thought I'd let you guys know, seeing as theres no fix on svn yet and all
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18:56:34  <Darkvater> Rexxie: what OS and what compiler?
18:56:48  <Rexxie> Windows, Visual Studio
18:57:06  <Darkvater> what windows, what visual studio?
18:57:17  <Rexxie> XP, 2005 :p
18:58:13  <Darkvater> cause it works for me here
18:58:14  <Darkvater> XP, 2003
18:58:37  <Rexxie> trange
18:58:46  <Rexxie> s/trange/strange
18:58:54  <Darkvater> try adding #include <ctype.h> to string.c
19:00:07  <glx> there's already #include <ctype.h> in string.c
19:00:15  <Darkvater> no thre is not
19:00:19  <glx> but it's enclosed in #if defined(UNIX) || defined(__OS2__)
19:00:31  <Darkvater> yep
19:00:49  <Rexxie> that did the trick :)
19:02:00  <Darkvater> the question is why this happens?
19:02:09  <Darkvater> or even why did it work before?
19:02:15  <Darkvater> and why does it work for me but not for you
19:02:38  <glx> works with mingw but there's a warning
19:02:52  <Bjarni> Darkvater: you ask too many questions
19:02:59  <Bjarni> it's windows, remember ;)
19:03:00  <Darkvater> Bjarni:
19:05:56  <Wolf01> i have to add something in VpStartPlaceSizing to e able to build things with drag&drop?
19:06:07  <Bjarni> it compiles just fine here
19:06:18  <Darkvater> Bjarni: warnings
19:06:23  <Darkvater> best to fix'em
19:06:31  <Bjarni> they aren't that simple to fix
19:06:36  <Bjarni> it works anyway
19:06:52  <Darkvater> it's deprecated
19:07:05  <Darkvater> next time you look it's not even there in 10.4 and you're screwed
19:07:17  <Bjarni> no
19:07:20  <Bjarni> it's not in 10.5
19:07:30  <Bjarni> I presume
19:07:34  <Born_Acorn> OpenTTD 10.5 is out already!
19:07:42  <Rexxie> haha
19:07:46  <Darkvater> I don't get this ctype error
19:07:49  * Bjarni beats Born_Acorn with a large stick
19:07:55  <Darkvater> something's really fishy with some header files
19:07:56  * Born_Acorn runs to the nearest phone booth to alert the press
19:08:50  <Wolf01> Wolf01, ping
19:08:50  <Wolf01> Wolf01, pong... yes i can see what i'm writing
19:09:18  * Bjarni just got the proof he needed
19:09:31  <Born_Acorn> I remember when two people had ping pong scripts.
19:09:42  <Bjarni> now we can pick up Wolf01. He is ready to be put in a rubber cell
19:09:57  <Wolf01> ok, now i got your attention
19:09:59  <Bjarni> he thinks he is several different people and he talks to himself
19:10:01  <Born_Acorn> Why would you want a ping reply to pong?
19:10:16  <Born_Acorn> It was ping pong ping pong. They both got banned.
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19:10:29  <Rexxie> surprising.
19:10:42  <Born_Acorn> Not as suprising as BANANAS
19:11:07  <Bjarni> Born_Acorn: well, at one time some guy found a guy with autoreply, so he turned his own autoreply on and messaged that guy to flood him out of the server
19:11:15  <Wolf01> i want to make drag&drop buy land, to be able to add another nice feature to it, but when i drag the area and release the mouse button it build... nothing
19:11:18  <Rexxie> bananas are the epitome of surprising
19:11:18  <Bjarni> guess who was kicked for flooding :D
19:12:02  <glx> Darkvater:
19:12:03  <Bjarni> Wolf01: we decided against drag-n-drop buy land to prevent abuse
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19:12:20  <Wolf01> i disabe it on mp
19:12:25  <Bjarni> good
19:12:31  <Wolf01> s/disabe/disable
19:12:34  <Darkvater> glx: I know what to fix. But I don't know why it worked before
19:12:50  <Darkvater> glx: I mean in fileio.c there was no include of ctype for windows, yet it worked
19:13:24  <Wolf01> i whant to use it to show eyecandy features like newstation things, so you don't need stations to build something
19:13:31  <Darkvater> glx: it could be that deeply somewhere some shitty include includes a system header file that includes ctype.... bah
19:13:44  <Bjarni> Darkvater: btw those deprecated functions... they are only deprecated when compiling for x86. On PPC, they are just fine
19:13:49  <glx> I know why it worked
19:14:00  <Darkvater> please tell :)
19:14:07  <glx> #if !defined(WIN32)
19:14:14  <Darkvater> where?
19:14:21  <Bjarni> and this is really the reason why it's there. The cocoa driver was written before universal binaries were in use
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19:14:32  <glx> fileio.c
19:14:40  <glx> all calls to tolower was protected
19:14:48  <glx> *were
19:14:50  <Darkvater> ah
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19:15:03  <Darkvater> point taken
19:15:18  <Darkvater> glx: thx
19:16:34  <Wolf01> i think i'll start to speak to myself again
19:18:04  * Bjarni cleans the rubber cell
19:18:05  <Darkvater> glx: the question is now why didn't vs2003 give an error about tolower in string.c while vs2005 did?
19:18:39  <glx> I can't help for this one
19:18:45  <Bjarni> Wolf01: you want attention, then I will make sure that you will get attention
19:19:13  <Bjarni> CIA-5: pay close attention to Wolf01 or be kicked
19:19:46  <Wolf01> oh i can speak with CIA-5, maybe he can be my friend :D
19:19:50  * Born_Acorn eats CIA-5
19:19:58  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r5697 /trunk/ (gfxinit.c string.c win32.c): -Fix [r5684]: tolower() was undefined for certain architectures, strangly VS2003 didn't complain, VS2005 did. Thanks glx
19:19:58  * CIA-5 tastes crunchy
19:20:09  <Bjarni> bbl
19:20:32  <Wolf01> bye Bjarni
19:21:48  <glx> Darkvater: ctype.h needed in win32.c (for toupper())
19:22:21  <Darkvater> there is no toupper in win32.c
19:22:37  <glx> ===> Compiling win32.c
19:22:37  <glx> win32.c: In function `DeterminePaths':
19:22:37  <glx> win32.c:1161: warning: implicit declaration of function `toupper'
19:22:44  <Darkvater> gaah
19:22:55  <Darkvater> ..
19:23:00  <Darkvater> somebody shoot me
19:24:33  <CIA-5> Darkvater * r5698 /trunk/win32.c: - Fix [r5697]: don't remove ctype include for win32.c; needed for toupper...ugh
19:25:37  * lws1984 shoots Darkvater :p
19:26:46  <Darkvater> thank you
19:34:35  * Sacro shoots lws1984
19:35:58  * Zaviori drews cookiejar and cookies everyone
19:36:31  <luckzeh> how sensible is having autorenew vehicles on?
19:36:44  <Zaviori> Its useful
19:37:59  * lws1984 wonders why he is not bleeding
19:40:13  <luckzeh> yes, but it's also very expensive :x
19:40:32  <luckzeh> I wonder why I have no money, then notice that in the last year 250k went into new vehicles
19:40:39  <luckzeh> well, replacing old ones
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20:16:56  <Bjarni> Darkvater: <-- do you think you can manage to make "official" win64 binaries?
20:17:15  <Bjarni> like I make official OSX 10.3 binaries without having OSX 10.3 to compile on/test on
20:17:40  <Darkvater> I can't make official 2in64 binaries
20:17:53  <Darkvater> can't compile for it
20:17:58  <Darkvater> at least didn't found out how
20:18:17  <Darkvater> will ask michi_cc ;) or use his version after I find out what he used
20:18:32  <michi_cc> Darkvater: yes?
20:18:36  <Darkvater> dammit
20:18:44  <Darkvater> shit, /me hides quickly
20:18:57  <Darkvater> michi_cc: gonna ask you in 10-15 ok? :)
20:19:03  <michi_cc> sure
20:19:35  <Wolf01> 10-15 years
20:19:59  <Bjarni> well, that's one thing that OSX is good at: compiling for a different version of the same OS
20:20:15  <Bjarni> I wonder if I will be able to make OSX 10.5 binaries from 10.4
20:20:23  <Bjarni> in theory it's not that tricky to do
20:20:31  <Sacro> you want any for different distros?
20:20:48  <Sacro> i can do Arch, Ubuntu, CentOS/FC/RH
20:20:50  <Bjarni> Sacro: you mean OTTD for linux binaries?
20:21:01  <Bjarni> I guess so :)
20:21:28  <Sacro> Bjarni: yes
20:21:56  <Bjarni> somebody asked for them, so I guess somebody should make them
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20:22:10  <Sacro> be nice if people mentioned distros
20:22:14  <Sacro> cos i dont mind installing and doing them
20:22:18  <Bjarni> and I don't have a crosscompiler to do so...
20:22:59  <Sacro> i have a MinGW cross compiler
20:22:59  <Bjarni> I just don't get why people run linux without gcc
20:23:12  <Sacro> they do, they just dont like compiling
20:23:20  <Bjarni> brb
20:23:37  <Sacro> if it doesnt appear under yum, apt-get, synaptic YAST...they complain and give uup
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20:32:08  <michi_cc> Darkvater: time's up ;) I'm using normal VS2005 Pro with installed Win64 support
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20:34:21  <Wolf01> i need some help with placing things with drag&drop, i can't figure what i have to do to make it work
20:34:44  <Bjarni> back
20:35:16  <Bjarni> michi_cc: nah, that sounds too simple
20:35:18  <Bjarni> it's not that
20:35:27  <Bjarni> you have to do something else as well
20:36:02  <michi_cc> what else? voodoo dances or what :)
20:36:17  <Wolf01> talk alone
20:36:21  <Bjarni> no
20:36:53  <Bjarni> michi_cc: it's more like you should not be able to do something like that unless you compile your compiler yourself or something
20:37:46  * Sacro builds an Arch Linux package
20:37:57  <michi_cc> you know, MS does quite nicely for their own OS, you could even download free compilers for some time
20:38:05  <michi_cc> mind you, only for thier *OWN* os though
20:39:28  <Bjarni> you mean you can download some win64 addon so you can compile win64 binaries?
20:39:48  <Bjarni> that would need 64 bit libs for all 3rd party libs, but still
20:39:56  <Sacro> could we have a universal, cross platform binary
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20:40:14  <Bjarni> Sacro: yeah
20:40:16  <michi_cc> VisualStudio 2005 Pro comes with it out of the box, and some SDK has compilers in it (it might still have)
20:41:01  <Bjarni> Sacro: if we make binaries for all operation systems, pack them together and then distribute a java app to make all OSes start the right binary
20:41:02  <Bjarni> that would work
20:41:03  <michi_cc> zlib is a no-brainer, officially compatible, and libpng does quite nicely as well
20:41:26  <Bjarni> stupid solution and a huge distribution, but it could work
20:41:33  <michi_cc> port OpenTTD directly to java ;)
20:41:44  * Bjarni shoots michi_cc
20:42:07  <Bjarni> if you like the garbage collector, then use objective C
20:42:07  <michi_cc> hehe, you could use mono if you're more into that
20:42:29  <Wolf01> let's make a gamemaker port of ottd
20:43:11  <Sacro> someones already porting it to C#
20:43:26  <Bjarni> yeah
20:43:31  <Bjarni> and that's just plain silly
20:43:37  <Sacro> :o phwoar, shes got nice wobbly bits
20:43:39  <Bjarni> it will never get my support
20:43:53  <Sacro> cos your a mac user
20:44:12  <Bjarni> that's not it
20:44:32  <Bjarni> the reason is that I have seen the language, can't code it and don't want to learn to code it ;)
20:45:58  <Bjarni> goodnight
20:46:03  <Bjarni> see you tomorrow
20:46:04  <Wolf01> night
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20:47:27  <Sacro> right, thats an Arch Linux package built
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20:55:32  <Darkvater> ok michi_cc :)
20:56:05  <michi_cc> official binaries are built on linux, right?
20:56:31  <Darkvater> michi_cc: 3 questions. 1. do you know if one can crosscompile from win32 to win64? 2. what and how are you compiling? 3. hmm, forgot
20:56:36  <Darkvater> michi_cc: the *nix ones, yes
20:56:45  <glx> and nightlies
20:57:03  <michi_cc> 1. yes, in fact all mcrosoft compilers are win32 binaries
20:57:16  <Darkvater> ?
20:57:31  <Darkvater> I mean can I compile from my win32 machine a win64 binary
20:57:50  <michi_cc> yes, even I am technically cross-compiling
20:58:12  <Darkvater> how so?
20:58:46  <michi_cc> as I said, the compiler itself is a win32 app which happens to produce 64-bit code
20:59:16  <Darkvater> that was not the question :).
20:59:32  <Darkvater> I suppose it's a VS2005 only thing no? Cause I've never seen win64 mode in vs2003
21:00:00  <michi_cc> yes, VS2005 only. professional and up have it included, but not installed by default
21:00:19  <Darkvater> ugh..just deinstalled vs2005 :O
21:00:35  <michi_cc> there used to be an SDK downlaod wich included win64 command line compilers, not sure if that's still available
21:00:49  <Darkvater> ok, so 1 is possible with vs2005
21:00:52  <Darkvater> what about 2
21:00:59  <michi_cc> (if not, the internet as many places to get it)
21:01:11  <Darkvater> and 3, which is: did you test the binary on a win64 machine that doesn't have an development studio isntalled
21:01:35  <michi_cc> 3. the runtime is statically linked, so no problems with that
21:01:55  <Darkvater> and 4. could you compile a win32 binary with VS2005 and run the game on a machine without dev-tools doing OS: WinXP, Win2k, WinME, Win98, Win95
21:02:13  <michi_cc> 2. plain svn sources with a slightly spiced-up project file
21:02:24  <Darkvater> what are the changes?
21:02:27  <michi_cc> 4. yes, no problem
21:02:47  <michi_cc> converted to VS2005 format and added Win64 target
21:03:04  <Darkvater> 4 would be great. I gave it a try sometime in the past, but started getting troubles with msvcrt8.dll missing which comes with vs2005
21:03:06  <michi_cc> wait, aren't vs2005 project files now in trunk?
21:03:10  <Darkvater> yes
21:03:21  <Darkvater> :)
21:03:51  <michi_cc> problems with missing dlls can be avoided by using the static runtime
21:04:21  <Darkvater> hmm could be it. however I never had such probs with vs2003
21:04:31  <Darkvater> runs perfectly even on win95
21:05:17  <michi_cc> I think it still uses the old runtime, or the default compiler options are different
21:07:29  <Darkvater> if you can find it out for me, it would be great, save me a lot of time, and a chance to put the win64 project settings into svn
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21:09:30  <Wolf01> grrr i can demolish land but not buy land
21:09:34  <michi_cc> I can send you a working vs2005 project right away, it definitely doesn't need any additional dlls
21:10:48  <Darkvater> just a diff suffices :)
21:11:25  <michi_cc> sure, svn diff. please hold the line for a moment :)
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21:29:37  <michi_cc> Darkvater: look inside
21:29:52  <michi_cc> complete with binary zlib and libpng
21:30:29  <Darkvater> the lib files?
21:30:35  <Darkvater> aren't those the same as in
21:30:47  <michi_cc> no, these are win32
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21:30:56  <Darkvater> hmm
21:30:59  * Darkvater checks
21:31:40  <Darkvater> contains win64 libraries
21:31:49  <Darkvater> complete with includes
21:32:01  <Darkvater>
21:32:09  <Darkvater> please double check if those are correct
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21:32:51  <Sacro> is there a place for user contributed linux binaries?
21:34:19  <michi_cc> I know that my files are working all right
21:34:34  <luckzeh> can I make a 2 to 4 to 2 track mixer be controlled by PBS easily?
21:35:17  <Darkvater> michi_cc: I think the same files are in I think I got them for you. Would be great if you could confirm that
21:36:36  <michi_cc> it's not the same, their md5's don't match. they might still work though. I can check that if you like
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21:37:00  <Darkvater> are you using latest zlib/libpng?
21:37:35  <Darkvater> well, just check if your zip has the latest zlib/libpng and I will put those into
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21:39:01  <michi_cc> they're the same versions as in, which I think has an out-dated zlib
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21:39:37  <michi_cc> actually, it's not outdated
21:40:31  <Darkvater> according to readme it's the latest zlib, but older libpng 1.2.8; latest is 1.2.12
21:41:03  <michi_cc> yeah, just checked that myself. I can make a new libpng if you want
21:41:17  <Darkvater> would be good. I'll also make one for win32 soon
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21:47:23  <Wolf01> i need your help for 2 little things:
21:47:23  <Wolf01> 1) there is a variable to know if i'm on a multiplayer game or single player?
21:47:23  <Wolf01> 2) how to get drag&drop buy land to work, i can only dynamite land :(
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21:49:30  *** Tron_ is now known as Tron
21:50:30  <Darkvater> 1) there is some global variable called _networking
21:50:41  <Darkvater> 2) look at how dynamite is implemented with d&d
21:50:54  <Wolf01> i already can dynamite
21:51:09  <Darkvater> yes, look how that is implemented and you can just copy it for buying land
21:51:28  <Wolf01> i did so :(
21:52:50  <Wolf01> void PlaceProc_BuyLand(TileIndex tile)
21:52:50  <Wolf01> {
21:52:50  <Wolf01> 	if (_networking) {
21:52:50  <Wolf01> 		DoCommandP(tile, 1, 0, CcPlaySound1E, CMD_PURCHASE_LAND_AREA | CMD_AUTO | CMD_NO_WATER | CMD_MSG(STR_5806_CAN_T_PURCHASE_THIS_LAND));
21:52:50  <Wolf01> 	} else {
21:52:52  <Wolf01> 		VpStartPlaceSizing(tile, VPM_X_AND_Y);
21:52:54  <Wolf01> 	}
21:52:56  <Wolf01> }
21:53:36  <Sacro> ooh, irc diffs
21:53:57  <Darkvater> sorry Wolf01, perhaps tomorrow, I needa go to bed real soon
21:54:58  <Wolf01> ok, night Darkvater
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21:57:31  <Tron> hm, the 1 there is bogus
21:57:50  <Tron> CMD_PURCHASE_LAND_AREA doesn't use any parameter except the tile
22:00:04  <Lord_damnit> hi folks, i'm trying to compile openttd with VS6 for the first time now, but i can't seem to get it working. even the file openttd.dsw is missing (latest trunk). i tried with 0.4.7 as well, but i'm just getting "NMAKE : fatal error U1052: file 'openttd.mak' not found". Anyone know how to fix this?
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22:01:01  <Sacro> Lord_damnit: VS6 isnt supported
22:01:04  <Tron> HEAD doesn't compile with VS6
22:01:39  <Lord_damnit> hm, alright, i don't need the latest version anyway. so which one does?
22:02:20  <Lord_damnit> 0.4.7 should, right? since it's coming with openttd.dsw...
22:02:33  <Tron> maybe 2 or 3 months back
22:02:39  <glx> VS2005 is free now
22:02:49  <Tron> ottd won't work with VS6 anymore
22:03:06  <Tron> and there's no intent to change this
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22:05:14  <Wolf01> uhm, also _networking does not work
22:05:18  <Lord_damnit> ok, no problem. 0.1.4 is all i need
22:06:26  <Lord_damnit> and that one seems to work
22:06:37  <Tron> uh...ok, good luck
22:06:56  <Tron> Wolf01: be a bit more specific than "does not work", maybe somebody can help you then
22:07:27  <Wolf01> is always false also when in multiplayer
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22:07:58  <Tron> given that it is used all over the place i doubt your statement
22:08:15  <Sacro> Lord_damnit: heh, 0.1.4 is good for nostalgia
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22:11:54  <Lord_damnit> just compiled, went well. thanks folks, gn8
22:12:04  <luckzeh> no "expert" on PBS around?
22:12:50  <Wolf01> bah... night all
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22:14:37  <Sacro> luckzeh: yeah?
22:15:43  <Frostregen> hmm, just missed wolf
22:16:48  <luckzeh> I have a train route with two stations, two lanes for every direction, two lanes per station. I want to have some form of load balancing thing inbetween the stations.
22:17:23  <Sacro> ah, PBS doesnt do load balancing
22:17:24  <luckzeh> what I built so far basically is two tracks to four tracks and back to two tracks, with lots of track changing things inbetween.
22:17:26  <luckzeh> okay.
22:17:35  <luckzeh> what can I use it for?
22:17:57  <luckzeh> it didn't seem to like being used for controlling which train gets which station lane, either
22:18:31  <Sacro> nope
22:18:50  <Sacro> it allows you to have more than 1 train in a block providing their paths dont intersect
22:20:14  <luckzeh> so could I put that to the end of a station from where two different paths head out into opposing directions?
22:22:03  <luckzeh> that also doesnt seem to work too well :p
22:23:38  <luckzeh> so it's mainly useful for when tracks cross each other?
22:23:49  <luckzeh> (from and to totally different directions)
22:25:10  <Sacro> yeah
22:25:17  <Sacro> i use it a lot for junctions and stations
22:26:48  <Sacro> OMG, WTF, ROFLCOPTER, errm, OMGWTFBBQ
22:26:50  <Sacro>
22:26:50  <luckzeh> which parts/situations of stations?
22:27:01  <Sacro> luckzeh: works nicely on terminuses
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22:28:22  <luckzeh> have any examples of how that is supposed to look and when one can use it and when one can't?
22:29:14  <Sacro> theres quite a few shots of mine in openttd pics forum
22:36:36  <Zaviori> Is there ottd pics forum? :på
22:37:15  <Sacro> yeah, in general openttd
22:37:32  <Zaviori> A subforum? :e
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22:59:29  <luckzeh> wasn't there some form of bug/issue regarding presignals being red when one of their exits remains green?
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23:11:22  <Sacro> luckzeh: possibly
23:12:11  <luckzeh> I will hand out a pic
23:12:19  <luckzeh>
23:12:32  <luckzeh> why is the top encircled one red?
23:12:37  <luckzeh> I tried making it every kind of signal etc
23:12:45  <luckzeh> it just doesnt want to be anything but red.
23:13:05  <glx> because there's a train
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23:13:48  <glx> same for the other encircled
23:13:52  <luckzeh> but the exit signal on the top is completely free and green and happy
23:14:01  *** Mucht|zZzbtw is now known as Mucht|zZz
23:14:12  <glx> presignal are not PBS
23:14:49  <luckzeh> of course, but PBS would do even more evil things there
23:14:58  <luckzeh> so I should just scrap all of that and find a different way to do it?
23:16:17  <glx> the top one is a safety thing (prevent crash :) )
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23:17:04  <glx> but I agree, the bottom one could become green once the train passed the junction (no crash risk)
23:18:08  <Sacro> yes thats right
23:18:38  <Sacro> its just crying out for PBS though
23:18:53  <luckzeh> PBS does not exactly help.
23:19:02  <luckzeh> well, PBS also creates the red light in the upper circle.
23:19:14  <glx> yes but the train can pass it
23:20:04  <luckzeh> my trains so far engaged in total stoppage when engaged with a red PBS light
23:20:14  <luckzeh> no matter if there were 40 paths for them that nothing would ever use
23:20:31  <luckzeh> maybe PBS hates me and became PMS :x
23:20:47  <glx> maybe bad layout :)
23:21:20  <luckzeh> so where would I put PBS light and which would I just kill?
23:21:29  <Sacro> luckzeh: in the console type "debug_level pbs=1"
23:21:52  <luckzeh> sure that's how you want me to type it?
23:21:59  <luckzeh> whines about nonworkyness
23:22:07  <luckzeh> nvm
23:24:00  <luckzeh> doesnt do anything though, at least not for trains just passing through PBS lights normally
23:25:54  <glx> should show you reserved tracks
23:26:01  <luckzeh> I know, but it doesn't
23:26:09  <luckzeh> am I supposed to get a confirmation for the command?
23:26:14  <luckzeh> do I maybe have to load it before the game?
23:26:16  <luckzeh> does it not work in MP?
23:26:37  <glx> ok so maybe you are using yapf
23:26:54  <luckzeh> is that bad?
23:27:05  <glx> PBs doesn't work with yapf
23:27:12  <luckzeh> heh, okay.
23:27:22  <luckzeh> can I turn yapf off in midgame?
23:27:27  <glx> yes
23:28:02  <luckzeh> okay
23:28:20  <glx> NPF must be on
23:28:22  <luckzeh> yep
23:28:27  <luckzeh> it shows stuff now
23:28:38  <luckzeh> now can I just put two PBS lights at the start and two at the end and everything magically works?
23:28:58  <luckzeh> (refer to pic)
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23:29:24  <ericg> anyone willing to give a hand with configuring usset.grf on rc2?
23:29:35  <ericg> i can't make it work :(
23:29:58  <Sacro> ericg: dont you just add it to openttd.cfg?
23:30:02  <luckzeh> I'm no expert, but I heard the nightlies/miniin were much better for grf files
23:30:03  <ericg> i thought so :(
23:30:11  <ericg> luckzeh: i'll try that
23:30:14  <ericg> i just wiped my .cfg
23:30:21  <glx> luckzeh: I'm not a PBS specialist
23:30:21  <ericg> if that doesn't work, i'll get a nightly
23:30:29  <Sacro> i dont play USSet
23:30:36  <Sacro> luckzeh: yeah, that should work
23:30:53  <ericg> i haven't before
23:31:06  <ericg> i was using dbset
23:31:12  <ericg> the uk one never worked for me
23:31:18  <ericg> everything cost a million dollars and went -1 mph
23:32:40  <ericg> hmm, nightly crashes on launch
23:32:42  <luckzeh> mhm
23:32:44  <luckzeh> kinda works
23:32:56  <luckzeh> but I'd be glad if it allowed path clashing under the condition that it just doesnt cause crashes :p
23:33:53  <Sacro> UKRS is fantastic
23:34:01  <Sacro> luckzeh: it should
23:34:09  <ericg> ukrs?
23:34:17  <ericg> that the full uk set?
23:34:33  <luckzeh> well, I had a train wait for an eternity for basically no reason
23:34:46  <luckzeh> because another train elsewhere would share the very very last bit of rail used with it
23:35:03  <ericg> aha
23:35:07  <ericg> nightly works with usset!
23:35:07  <luckzeh> UK works fine here with miniin
23:35:12  <ericg> well, last night's
23:35:14  <ericg> <3 :D
23:36:05  <glx> luckzeh: can you show us your pbs layout ?
23:36:09  <luckzeh> is it a better idea to have basically one single signal block with PBS or to have twenty seperate small ones? will they "cooperate"?
23:36:25  <Sacro> luckzeh: i prefer to have one
23:36:39  <luckzeh> my layout initially was just what I pictured above, without all signals but the initial and last two, those then are PBS
23:36:49  <luckzeh> can of course get a new pic
23:36:57  <glx> one block with a lot of possible path
23:37:03  <luckzeh> what the hell
23:37:20  <luckzeh> my train just went backwards to go somewhere it earlier didnt want to go
23:37:43  <luckzeh> so it did two 90° turns in 1.5 seconds
23:37:47  <luckzeh> I'm scared of PBS.
23:39:01  <Sacro> hehehe, its amazing
23:39:17  <Sacro> i scared people on brianettas server with my usage of it
23:39:24  <glx> welcome in PBS world :)
23:41:52  <ericg> oh whoa electrified track?
23:41:57  <ericg> i haven't updated in a while D:
23:42:26  <Sacro> heh
23:42:29  <ericg> :)
23:44:38  <luckzeh> maybe I should spend those 7 million somehow instead of fiddling with PBS all day
23:45:00  <Sacro> hum, brb
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23:48:23  <luckzeh> does YAPF have any advantages over NPF other than cpu usage?
23:49:08  <Sacro> ooh tis firefox day
23:49:16  <Sacro> luckzeh: yes
23:52:57  <ericg> here's a question
23:53:12  <ericg> i've been playing railroad tycoon a bit
23:53:16  <ericg> and doubletracking is huge
23:53:22  <ericg> matter as much with ttd?
23:55:01  <Sacro> doubletracking?
23:55:49  <ericg> yeah, one track going each direction
23:55:55  <Sacro> ah right
23:55:58  <Sacro> i use that all the time
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